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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People who did cool stuff,

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Speaker 2: which is sometimes about cool people who did cool stuff,

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Speaker 2: but is currently about complicated people who did interesting stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, Murder Kiljoy, and my guest is Miriam. Hi, Miriam,

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Speaker 2: Hi are you today? That's totally a different day than

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Speaker 2: the previous day, because obviously we recorded on different days.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm having a really different day than it was

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Speaker 3: the last time that we talked.

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Speaker 2: Sophie is our producer. Hi, Sophie, Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm still drinking my questionably colored electrolyte drink.

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Speaker 2: It's lasted you days days. Yeah. For anyone who can't see,

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Speaker 2: which is everyone except the three of us, because mercifully

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Speaker 2: this is not a video podcast. Sophie is currently drinking

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Speaker 2: a I was trying to come something more clever than

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Speaker 2: it is. It just looks like pee, that's what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, aesthetically this drink.

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Speaker 2: But it seems like it probably tastes good. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: don't know.

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Speaker 3: It's taken her three days to drink it.

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Speaker 2: That's true, but that parts, well, that's not true. That's

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Speaker 2: the part that's the lie, that's the bit we're doing.

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Speaker 2: But part of the not bit, but instead my weird

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Speaker 2: thing where I have to do everything the same way

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Speaker 2: every time that I'm not going to diagnose. We also

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Speaker 2: have to introduce our audio engineer, Rory hi Rori or

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Speaker 2: hi Rory inter The music is my own Woman.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a really good way of making sure

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Speaker 3: you don't forget anything. That's what I think it is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. We are on part two of a

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Speaker 2: two parter about gioseppes On Gara, who is a would

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Speaker 2: be Well, I guess if you don't kill the person

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Speaker 2: you're trying to kill, you're not an assassin.

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Speaker 3: So he's a murder he did, he did assassinate someone.

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Speaker 2: Well, but but he didn't try to kill that guy.

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Speaker 3: Mmmm. True.

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Speaker 2: True, So I think he's would be assassin and just

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Speaker 2: a regular murderer, yes, and.

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Speaker 3: An interesting person who did interesting stuff, we definitely agree.

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Speaker 2: Who is wildly sympathetic, just the most sympathetic of the

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Speaker 2: person who it's so complicated. I love this story.

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Speaker 3: So many bad things have happened to him.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know. And now he's in Miami and

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Speaker 2: he has a gun. He got ten bullets and then

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Speaker 2: because nothing makes sense and anywhere that only has one

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Speaker 2: version of history means that it's probably lying to you.

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Speaker 2: He either practiced somewhere with the first five rounds or

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Speaker 2: they were on him when he was arrested. Both have

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Speaker 2: been presented by credible sources.

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Speaker 3: That seems like so easy to fact check, I know,

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Speaker 3: but for that, not for you if people are saying

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Speaker 3: different things, but like he either had five bullets in

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Speaker 3: his pocket or he did not, Like this is there's

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Speaker 3: no subtlety to this.

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Speaker 2: A lot of like records and stuff all went missing.

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Speaker 3: You did say there were conspiracy theories, true crime elements

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Speaker 3: to this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, all of the records about him disappeared in

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Speaker 4: nineteen forty five. WHOA, and then like his criminal record

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Speaker 4: in Italy was like destroyed in the war the coming one,

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Speaker 4: the World War two one.

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Speaker 2: And like there's just like stuff, you know.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, I don't think we've even talked about why he

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Speaker 3: has a criminal record in Italy. I don't think you

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Speaker 3: mentioned any Italian crimes.

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Speaker 2: He was arrested having an illegal knife on him when

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Speaker 2: he was like twenty oh care and he served thirteen

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Speaker 2: days in jail for it, which is kind of wild.

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Speaker 2: It might have been during the while he was like

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Speaker 2: walking around Rome trying to kill the king part of

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Speaker 2: his life. But I'm not sure.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I would hope he had a like for

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Speaker 3: his sake in terms of his planning, that he had

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Speaker 3: a gun when he was walking around Rome hoping to

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Speaker 3: kill the king.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, so he had illegally feoun him. Pie

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Speaker 2: served searching days in jail, and who knows, it seemed

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Speaker 2: like not a big deal. It only came up because

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Speaker 2: they actually spent a while after he got arrested right there,

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Speaker 2: would like write, hello, our friend Mussolini, can you let

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Speaker 2: us know about this man we have in custody, you know, right,

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Speaker 2: And for a while they were like, oh, I don't

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Speaker 2: have anything on that guy, and slowly came up. And

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Speaker 2: then there's like a bunch of others Joe's Angaras in

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Speaker 2: the US and whatever. Anyway, So the closer we get

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Speaker 2: to the event itself, the blurrier the details get, because

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Speaker 2: everyone wanted to take credit for saving the day or

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Speaker 2: knowing something about what happened, or tying him into their

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Speaker 2: favorite pet conspiracy about the anarchist international network that they

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Speaker 2: think is bad instead of like me, where I think

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Speaker 2: it's cool, you know.

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Speaker 3: Not to make the whole conversation back to the Sondhim musical.

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Speaker 3: But the song about Zangara in the show is called

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Speaker 3: How I Saved Roosevelt, And it's a crowd song where

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Speaker 3: every single person is telling like how the story is

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Speaker 3: really about them.

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Speaker 2: That is very accurate.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he's a good writer, Stephen Sondheim. But like everybody

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Speaker 3: is talking about like, oh, he tried to push in

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Speaker 3: front of me and I made him to go stand

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Speaker 3: at the back. And then somebody else is like I

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Speaker 3: saw him getting up on the chair and I pushed him,

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Speaker 3: you know, like everybody has their own little thing. And

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Speaker 3: then is like basically talk about this story is really

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Speaker 3: about me, while he just like screams in anguish and

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Speaker 3: is ignored.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually just pretty directly like those two exact

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Speaker 2: things are going to happen well, or people will claim

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Speaker 2: they happened.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: There's one version of The Fateful Day where Giuseppe went

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Speaker 2: and got a hotel room and smoked half a hundred

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Speaker 2: cigarettes on the bed while chambering the gun and worrying.

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Speaker 2: This comes from the woman who runs the hotel.

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Speaker 3: Can I ask you something, You're a professional writer? Half

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Speaker 3: a hundred?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Why half hundred. I didn't that that was the

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Speaker 2: way the woman described it. Half a hundred cigarettes.

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Speaker 3: Fifty there's a perfectly good number.

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Speaker 2: Half a hundred carries a different connotation, it.

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Speaker 3: Does, doesn't it. It sounds like he had one hundred

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Speaker 3: there and he only smoked half of them, and like

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Speaker 3: he was trying to smoke all of them, but he

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Speaker 3: only did half.

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Speaker 2: Smoking fifty cigarettes, it means you were there for a

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Speaker 2: while smoking half a hunt undred cigarettes, and means like

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Speaker 2: you're like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is you know, it sounds wild to smoke

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Speaker 3: half a hundred cigarettes. Smoking fifty cigarettes is just a

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Speaker 3: lot of cigarettes. I just wanted to really do a

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Speaker 3: close reading of this moment. Thank you for indulging me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, totally Yeah, two and a half packs.

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Speaker 2: They could have just said two and a half packs, right,

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Speaker 2: because then anyway.

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Speaker 3: Whatever that sounds reasonable, I know, he smoked two and

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Speaker 3: a half packs of cigarettes. Just sounds like, yeah, that

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Speaker 3: doesn't even sound like anything.

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Speaker 2: I've met people who do that. But he didn't smoke.

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Speaker 3: Oh great, so he actually smoked half a zero cigarettes.

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Speaker 2: Probably he also had a room in town. He probably

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Speaker 2: never went to a hotel. Great, this woman has probably

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Speaker 2: just interjected herself into the story. But it's also kind

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Speaker 2: of a compelling narrative, like you could see they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna die today. I'm gonna go smoke half a

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Speaker 2: hundred cigarettes. You know, I don't know either way. Nine pm,

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Speaker 2: February fifteenth, nineteen thirty three, Franklin and Doug Nope, where

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Speaker 2: did that one? Franklin diminutive Deborah Franklin Deborah Roosevelt docked

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Speaker 2: and got into a car, one of the three cars

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Speaker 2: with his entourage, and they went off to Bayfront Park.

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Speaker 2: And if you're thinking to yourself and only Margaret, is

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Speaker 2: that place sounds familiar? And there's a band stand there?

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Speaker 2: Did you, Margaret get trapped there? Once kettled alongside thousands

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Speaker 2: of other people in November two thousand and three, the

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Speaker 2: day after you saw Dead pres play at the bandstand

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Speaker 2: at the Miami FTAA protests. Well, I looked at photos

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Speaker 2: and the answer is yes, I saw Dead pres play

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Speaker 2: where this guy shot the president.

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Speaker 3: That actually rules. Do you think they knew?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I have no idea.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I would hope somebody told them.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know they're like, oh, you should have

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Speaker 2: been dead Mayor just for the night.

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Speaker 3: You know, if they really fucked up the show, if

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Speaker 3: they really fucked up the show, then they were dead Mayor.

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Speaker 3: It's like, oh, yeah, I missed on that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so anyway, Franklin, Demetrius Roosevelt, Miriam gave me that

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Speaker 2: one in between. Then the break showed up at the

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Speaker 2: park and there was a huge crowd. Giuseppe tried to

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Speaker 2: push his way through the front of the crowd. Some

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Speaker 2: witnesses claim that he had someone with him, most claimed

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Speaker 2: that he didn't. He probably didn't.

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Speaker 3: It seems like he usually doesn't have anybody with him,

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Speaker 3: and when he does, it's often a teenager.

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Speaker 2: Well those are the ones we hear about. But yes, okay,

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Speaker 2: he wanted to get to the front row because he

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Speaker 2: is short, and he wants to shoot the speaker, which

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Speaker 2: is obviously a thing that comes up anyway, and potentially

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Speaker 2: a guy stopped him from pushing his way forward. This one,

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Speaker 2: I kind of tend to believe there was, Like some

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Speaker 2: witnesses Zuku Testa this one the particular, like, hey, what

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Speaker 2: are you doing? You can't push your way up, And

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Speaker 2: he's like, I'm sure it let me through, And the

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Speaker 2: guy's like no, you're a man. You can't go anywhere,

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Speaker 2: you know. But obviously this guy has a vested interest

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Speaker 2: in claiming he saved the president, so right, you know,

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Speaker 2: he remembers the story very well. He's also one of

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Speaker 2: the people who claimed that the guy, oh I don't remember,

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Speaker 2: everyone had. It's like a chart of people who claimed

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Speaker 2: to have saved the president and claimed that he did

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Speaker 2: or didn't have an accomplice with him whatever. So he

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Speaker 2: ends up in the third row. Waiting on the steps

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Speaker 2: to the stage. Are all these dignitaries. Since the country

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Speaker 2: that their dignitaries in is the United States of America,

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Speaker 2: this means it's all the rich people in town, like

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Speaker 2: all the business leaders of Miami or whatever, sitting there.

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Speaker 3: And since it's like the early twentieth century, they're all

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Speaker 3: probably wearing like top hats and like a ribbon across

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Speaker 3: their chest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that says like I am an industrialist. Ha ha

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Speaker 2: ha sucks to be you. I think that's what they

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Speaker 2: all wore.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also waiting there is the mayor of Chicago, Anton cermac

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 3: Really waiting for you to explain what he was doing there,

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Speaker 3: because it never occurred to me to wonder what he

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Speaker 3: was doing in Miami ran so the soon to be president.

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Speaker 2: The first time I read it, I was like, oh, huh,

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Speaker 2: I need killed like an important guy. And I'm like, wait,

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Speaker 2: Miami is famously not in Chicago. Yeah, so what the

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Speaker 2: fuck was the mayor of Chicago doing in Miami. I

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Speaker 2: hear mayor of Chicago in the nineteen thirties, and I

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Speaker 2: assume he's a corrupt mafia puppet, right, And Miami is

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Speaker 2: almost a sister crime city to Chicago at this point

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Speaker 2: with organized crime or whatever. Is what I've infurring. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's a subtext to some stuff I've read. I'm not

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Speaker 2: a historian of the organized crime in Miami. So is

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Speaker 2: he there because of organized crime? No? Ant In cermac

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Speaker 2: is the politician who broke the racist Irish stranglehold on

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Speaker 2: Chicago politics. Huh, including by getting the Irish vote. He

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Speaker 2: wasn't a like haha, we pulled one over on the Irish.

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Speaker 2: He himself was an immigrant. He was from Slovakia. He

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Speaker 2: grew up speaking Czech, was a coal miner, and Anton

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Speaker 2: grew up working class before he kind of bootstrapped him.

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Speaker 2: He American dreamed himself into being a businessman. You know

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Speaker 2: and then started exploiting people for money or whatever. Right,

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Speaker 2: but he fought against prohibitionists on a campaign of personal liberty.

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Speaker 2: He ousted the incumbent mayor by leveraging his own working

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Speaker 2: class cred and rousing the vote of the ethnic minorities

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Speaker 2: whod been shut out of politics, especially getting out the

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Speaker 2: black vote in a way that hadn't been done well.

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Speaker 3: And if he was an anti prohibition guy, that means

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Speaker 3: that the Chicago mob was probably very anti him, because

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Speaker 3: the mob wanted prohibition to stay so they could continue

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Speaker 3: selling illegal bootze.

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Speaker 2: He did this thing where he kind of ran on

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Speaker 2: a mafia neutral platform, but he was anti mafia, according

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Speaker 2: to what I've read the people of This is where

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Speaker 2: there's even more arguments, right, But yeah, he was. He

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Speaker 2: was anti mafia. The mafia was anti him. This is

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Speaker 2: part of why people thought that maybe this is why

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Speaker 2: he was killed. It is almost certainly not what happened.

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Speaker 2: He won by the largest landslide victory in the city's history.

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Speaker 2: And his whole thing is anti corruption. And then what

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Speaker 2: people claim is that actually he was just as dirty,

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Speaker 2: but he was the opposite side. Al Capone is in

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Speaker 2: jail at this point and so he wants not actually,

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Speaker 2: but people say that he wants or there's no evidence

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Speaker 2: rather of the idea that he wants a different mafia

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Speaker 2: guy in charge. Right right seems to be a minority

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Speaker 2: opinion among historians. I believe that the general opinion is

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Speaker 2: that he was anti corruption and anti mafia. He's sixty

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Speaker 2: nine years old at this point. It took him a

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Speaker 2: while to get to mayor, right, and he's in Miami

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Speaker 2: because Chicago is having trouble raising enough money through taxes

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Speaker 2: thanks to the Depression, to pay for all the public

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Speaker 2: services it needs. Specifically, he is there because public school

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Speaker 2: teachers aren't getting paid enough in Chicago. Oh no, I'm

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Speaker 2: telling you this is a tragedy. The active duty mayor

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Speaker 2: traveled to Miami to hang around a bandstand to desperately

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Speaker 2: try to catch the ear of the president elect for

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Speaker 2: a second to plead for federal funds to pay public

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Speaker 2: school teachers.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, that's such a good thing to do.

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Speaker 2: It is. And it wasn't a like I'm just gonna

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Speaker 2: go chum it up with so and so. He was

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Speaker 2: there as a like, if I can get half a

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Speaker 2: second of the president, maybe I can help these teachers

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Speaker 2: Oh my god. He didn't know exactly when the things

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Speaker 2: was gonna be.

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Speaker 3: He just like and this wasn't him being like like

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Speaker 3: trying to like yeah, forge a political alliance or like

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Speaker 3: call in a favor for himself.

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Speaker 2: This was like, oh no, yeah, because he was he

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Speaker 2: was just kind of do it okay for himself. You know,

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Speaker 2: he's like the business guy and like, yeah, as far

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Speaker 2: as I can tell, there was an ulterior motive here.

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Speaker 2: He was there for literally the thing that just Seppi's

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Speaker 2: there for, yeah, that poor kids should get to go

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Speaker 2: to school.

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Speaker 3: That poor kids should get to go to school.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I know that. This was the moment where

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh god, like this is like I

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Speaker 2: read this.

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Speaker 3: I was really counting on this podcast recording session to

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Speaker 3: lift my spirits.

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Speaker 2: You know that. I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 3: It's always a gamble talking to you.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 3: No, that's not true. I love talking to you.

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Speaker 2: It's still like it's a tragedy, but it's like you

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Speaker 2: know when we go see Shakespeare for the comedies and

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Speaker 2: the tragedies, right, yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, it's a poetic tragedy. Yeah, it's a oh.

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Speaker 2: And both sides of it are I straight up thing

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Speaker 2: Joeppe's on the wrong side of this, but honestly, so

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Speaker 2: is this businessman mayor right, like in other ways, you know,

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Speaker 2: for anyone who's listening wonders by talking about I mean

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Speaker 2: because of capitalism, not because of the anyway whatever. So

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Speaker 2: there's the mayor, there's some business leaders, there's twenty five

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Speaker 2: thousand Miamians, and then there's Giuseppe's Angara with a revolver

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Speaker 2: in his pocket. Franklin Dylan Dorothy Dorothy Dylan Roosevelt shows

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Speaker 2: up and he's he's paralyzed. Right, there's a thing that

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Speaker 2: wasn't a People did know this at the time. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't totally hidden, but it wasn't like it was downplayed

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Speaker 2: as much as possible.

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Speaker 3: It was sort of yeah, he like like I know,

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Speaker 3: he sort of really tried to avoid being photographed in

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Speaker 3: a wheelchair and stuff like that, but.

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Speaker 2: Like, you know, and he walked with heavy leg braces

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Speaker 2: underneath his trousers and I'm not trying to At some

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Speaker 2: point I wanted I want to read more about ableism

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Speaker 2: and FDR because I think it's very interesting that possibly

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Speaker 2: the most powerful American president in history was a was disabled.

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Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, especially during a period of even more

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Speaker 2: intense and ableism than currently, which is still instead of

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Speaker 2: going up on stage, he's in an open car, right,

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Speaker 2: so they just pick him up and put him onto

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Speaker 2: the backseat of the car so we can talk to

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Speaker 2: the crowd. This is part of the like, well, they're

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Speaker 2: not really hiding it, they're just not playing it up.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: That was also like that was a very popular way

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Speaker 3: for politicians to appear in public, you know, up to

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Speaker 3: another assassination that ye fair took place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, before people realize that convertibles is a good way

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Speaker 2: to get shot. Yeah. He gives a very very short speech,

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Speaker 2: just a couple of sentences, and he talks about he's

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Speaker 2: trying to go to the beach. Yeah, he talks about

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Speaker 2: his favorite topic. He talks about how he caught had

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Speaker 2: a great time fishing, but he figures he gained about

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Speaker 2: ten pounds on vacation, and so his first order of

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Speaker 2: business once he gets into the White House is an

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Speaker 2: executive order of himself to lose those ten pounds. Oh gross, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's like all he talks about. It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Franklin diet culture, Roosevelt.

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Speaker 1: I did not enjoy that. I did not enjoy that.

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Speaker 2: No, no, he's going to say another annoying fatbook thing

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Speaker 2: a little bit too.

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Speaker 1: We all had the same face of like, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Nobody wants to hear about your diet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're ob tessive worry abou anyway, whatever, m

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Speaker 2: M no, thank you. Yeah. Actually that's a kind of

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Speaker 2: Trumpian way to talk. They'll like getting up and giving

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Speaker 2: a speech is like I had a great time fishing,

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Speaker 2: you know, and now I'm going to say something body

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Speaker 2: shamy like, yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think they like, I'm just like you. I enjoy

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Speaker 3: phishing and a self deprecating joke is like pretty standard

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Speaker 3: politician like way of trying to endear yourself to a crowd.

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Speaker 2: But no, you're you're right. And it was over before

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Speaker 2: anyone knew it, and Giuseppe was like, oh, I missed

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Speaker 2: my chance. And he didn't shoot during it because he

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Speaker 2: didn't have a clear line of sight and you know whatever,

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Speaker 2: and FDR's aids helped him back down to sitting in

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Speaker 2: the back seat. A few dignitaries rushed over to talk

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Speaker 2: to him, including Anton Sermac, who was like, Hey, I've

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Speaker 2: got some business to talk to you about. Gara was

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Speaker 2: about twenty five feet away, and so he stood up

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Speaker 2: on his chair and he said, I love products and services. Wow,

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Speaker 2: oh you really?

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Speaker 3: You jump scared me with that one. I didn't say coming.

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Speaker 2: I know that no one suspects that I can't do

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Speaker 2: a Spanish inquisition because if I just say the Spanish products,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't work. Well, here's ads and we're back. He

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Speaker 2: did stand up on his chair. He didn't shout anything.

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Speaker 2: He's quiet the entire time. Another woman about his size

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Speaker 2: named Lillian Cross, who was almost certainly in the song

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Speaker 2: that you're talking about, Yeah, was standing on the chair

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Speaker 2: right in front of him, and so he held the

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Speaker 2: gun over her right shoulder and fired one shot, then

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Speaker 2: two more shots, than two more shots, and then the

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Speaker 2: gun was empty. Lilian's face was burned by the powder

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Speaker 2: as he fired. And then everyone claims to be the

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Speaker 2: hero who saved the day. Yeah, Lillian Cross gets the

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Speaker 2: most credit, Like she's the one you're gonna find on

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Speaker 2: the Wikipedia page for example. She's actually the Well, neither

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Speaker 2: of these are very credible witnesses. No one stopped his aim.

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Speaker 2: The spoiler alert, no one stopped him.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no. She definitely claims to have given him

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Speaker 3: a mighty shove or something when he Yeah, when he

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Speaker 3: was aiming.

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Speaker 2: She claims she hit his arm with her bag or

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Speaker 2: wrestled his arm up. And then a carpenter named Thomas

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Speaker 2: Armor in the British style with a U somehow that's

386
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Speaker 2: important to me, disputes this and says Lilian didn't do anything.

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Speaker 2: It was I who rushed forward and grabs Angara's arm

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Speaker 2: and forced it up. Zagara's claim is that no one

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Speaker 2: stopped him. Well, I mean, afterwards they crap beats the

390
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Speaker 2: shit out and almost kills him. But most likely they

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Speaker 2: are both liars or misremembering. Most likely, Zanngara fired unimpeded

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Speaker 2: except for the wobbling of his chair that was caused

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Speaker 2: by the crowd, and that's how he remembers it. And furthermore,

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Speaker 2: of his arm had been held up, he wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: shot so many people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he would have missed more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And almost every almost every witness who isn't claiming

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Speaker 2: that they personally saved the day is like, no, he

399
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Speaker 2: just shot on him. No one stopped him until he

400
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Speaker 2: was done. The rich, little old lady became the national hero.

401
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,639
Speaker 2: The carpenter was the local hero. And so there's like

402
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Speaker 2: a huge fight, and this was a big drama. For

403
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Speaker 2: years the rest of his life, he was petitioning Congress

404
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Speaker 2: for a medal of honor since Lilian had gotten one,

405
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Speaker 2: and he would like whenever she would be on like

406
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Speaker 2: talk shows or whatever, he would show up.

407
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Speaker 3: And be like, Oh, that's so embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: I know as soon as he started shooting, the crowd

409
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Speaker 2: dropped to the ground. Reasonable and part of this whole thing.

410
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Speaker 2: I think people were like, oh, someone spoiled his aim.

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Speaker 2: How could he have missed? He was only twenty five

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Speaker 2: feet away. I think that people who say this have

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Speaker 2: not fired a lot of handguns. I feel confident that

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Speaker 2: the average news shooter could hit center mass of a

415
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Speaker 2: target in a calm situation with a handgun from twenty

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Speaker 2: five feet away after a little bit of practice. I

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Speaker 2: do not feel confident that the average shooter could hit

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Speaker 2: a target in a crowd from twenty five feet away

419
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Speaker 2: while standing on a wobbly chair full of adrenaline. Handguns

420
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Speaker 2: are incredibly inaccurate, and twenty five feet is not close

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Speaker 2: for a handgun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you said he had he had been

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Speaker 3: in the army, though, so would he have had like

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Speaker 3: weapons training.

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Speaker 2: So he probably had some training. They probably, and I

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Speaker 2: can't say this for certain, they probably did not teach

427
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Speaker 2: him how to use handguns much.

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Speaker 3: Mmmm yeah, fair.

429
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Speaker 2: Overall soldiers don't use handguns. Officers use handguns. That's a

430
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 2: good point. And even then they don't really use them,

431
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Speaker 2: they just carry them.

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Speaker 3: Well, and he had been thinking he was going to

433
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Speaker 3: be aiming at the guy on stage, not the guy

434
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Speaker 3: in the car, like his plan is changing, like everything.

435
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Speaker 2: And he was going to be row and yeah, yeah,

436
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Speaker 2: not standing on a wobbly chair. He also came close.

437
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Speaker 2: The bullets like whizzed by within the foot of the

438
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 2: guy's head, you know.

439
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, unprecedented and unfamiliar to hear a story about a

440
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 3: soon to be president having bullets come so very close

441
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 3: to shooting him at a rally.

442
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

443
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 3: I hate it when history rhymes.

444
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 2: I mean, are you predicting here and now that Trump

445
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 2: is going to enact a new deal and save the

446
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: world from Nazis?

447
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 3: Oh, well no I am. Actually I'm not going to

448
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 3: put my money on that one.

449
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: I really kind of entrapped you there. So Zangara injured

450
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 2: five people with his five bullets, and he came within

451
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: inches of FDR's head. He actually for a while thought

452
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: he had injured six people, and he bragged about it

453
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 2: while he was in Joe. He's like waiting for death

454
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 2: row and he's like, I shot six people with five bullets.

455
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 3: That's not a good look, man.

456
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: No, No, Sirmac took a round to the chest, but

457
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: he did not die right away. Mabel gil the wife

458
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 2: of the president of the power company, was hit in

459
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,719
Speaker 2: the abdomen and nearly died. That was actually people were

460
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 2: more worried about Mabel than they were about Sirmac. Margaret Cruse,

461
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: who should not have been shot because she should have

462
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 2: a name that prevents you from being shot unless you

463
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: are ahead of State of the UK.

464
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing bad should ever happen to Margaret's except that

465
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 3: one who you.

466
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: Mentioned, Yeah, exactly. She was a twenty three year old

467
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: who was just in the crowd and she was shot

468
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 2: through the hand and then another bullet went through her

469
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: hat and grazed her.

470
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 3: Are you bragging about shooting a random twenty five year old?

471
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: I think he's like because he actually later he's like

472
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: pretty like he talks about how he would not have

473
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 2: targeted these people, but he also clearly is like, isn't sorry,

474
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: but This is why you don't shoot into crowds everyone,

475
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, don't do it. Yeah, A cop, a

476
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: Secret Service agent, and a chauffeur were all woundedly well.

477
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:07,239
Speaker 2: The Secret Service agent was probably lying. Yes, witnesses at

478
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 2: the hospital said, the blood on his hand with someone else's.

479
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 3: Oh hell yeah.

480
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: But he is to this day, or at least as

481
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: of when this book was written, and I don't remember

482
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,239
Speaker 2: when on the official list of Secret Service members who

483
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: were wounded in the line of duty?

484
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 3: Was he Was he collecting those checks? Was he like

485
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 3: taken off, taken off of active duty and just sitting

486
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 3: at home like I got shot for the president?

487
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: You know what though, Like if you're in a shooting,

488
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: if you're a bodyguard and there is a shooting, I

489
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: feel like you could be done. You're like, you know what,

490
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: on my watch, that man survived and I'm done. You

491
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 2: pay me for the rest of my life.

492
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 3: Now, if you're at work and someone shoots at you,

493
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 3: your employers should pay for you to just chill for

494
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: the rest of your life. How about that.

495
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 2: That's the sorry, that's the rules.

496
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

497
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: When the shots rang out, FDR's bodyguard jumped on him.

498
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 2: The car started to gun off and I think this

499
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 2: is true. This is very propaganda for FDR, but I

500
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: believe this is true. No witnesses dispute this at all. Someone,

501
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 2: probably FDR, stopped them from driving away. They stayed and

502
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 2: helped the wounded instead. Sirmak was put into the car

503
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: next to FDR, who tried hard to keep the man

504
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: from going into shock. As they drove off towards the hospital,

505
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: the crowd attackted Zangara. Someone shouted, lynch him, kill him,

506
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 2: cut his throat because crowds be like that. Sometimes. A

507
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: bunch of cops tackled him. The crowd was beating him.

508
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 2: He was silent by most reports. One witness claimed he shouted.

509
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: He did not, Just to be clear, he did not

510
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: shout this. One witness claimed he shouted, I want to

511
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: kill the president. I kill the president. Too many people

512
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: are starving to death. I'm glad I got Sirmac.

513
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 3: I love how somebody is like yes, And then he

514
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 3: shouted several complete coherent sentences.

515
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that include knowing the name of the mayor of Chicago. Yeah.

516
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 3: Why the fuck would he know the name of the

517
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 3: mayor of Chicago and recognize him by sight?

518
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 2: Right? He had a picture of FDR in his pocket

519
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: to make sure he knew what the guy looked like.

520
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 3: You know, people weren't on TV then, Yeah, but also

521
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 3: people are on TV now. And if you showed a

522
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 3: resident of Miami a lineup of people and said which

523
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 3: of these is the mayor of Chicago, there is a

524
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 3: zero percent chance anyone can pick them out? Yeah, pick

525
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 3: them out. I don't actually know who the mayor of

526
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 3: Chicago currently is.

527
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: No, I don't either. Yeah. Cops took him from the

528
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: crowd and they tied him to the trunk rack on

529
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: the back of a car. Huh, strangling him, and then

530
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: cops were like hanging on to the running boards as

531
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 2: they drove away.

532
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 3: Wait, sorry, is he like he's like being towed behind

533
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 3: the car?

534
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: Okay, so like an old timey car is going to

535
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: have that spot on the back where the trunk is

536
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: literally a place you put a trunk.

537
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, got it, I'm picturing it now.

538
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's on top of that. So they get to

539
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 2: the hospital and then this is my favorite weird anecdote

540
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: of the whole thing. The guy working at the emergency

541
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: room was sitting back on it, sitting back in the chair.

542
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: His feet were up in the middle of the night.

543
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: You know, it's not midnight, but it's like nine PM's

544
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: in the emergency room.

545
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 3: Oh, nothing happening in this Miami emergency room. I hope

546
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 3: no important people charging covered in blood.

547
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 2: Certainly not while you're reading a Nudi mag Yes. I

548
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: love that.

549
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's what it would be in a movie,

550
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 3: like that's.

551
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it totally, it absolutely would be, you know.

552
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: And then they're at the door and they're like, open

553
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: the door for the President of the United States, and

554
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 2: he thinks they're joking. He shouts back, tell him to

555
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: piss on the floor and swim under it. Oh my god.

556
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: People don't say shit like that anymore.

557
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 2: People knew how to be clever in the thirties, damn.

558
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 2: And then like later in his life people were like,

559
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: did you really say that? And he's like, I'm not

560
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: saying one way or the other.

561
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god. See this is the guy, like everybody

562
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 3: back at the crowd who's trying to make the whole

563
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 3: story about them. Sorry, but the story is actually about

564
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 3: this guy who was reading porn and told the president

565
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: to piss on the floor and swim under the door.

566
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 2: I know. That's that's the one whose story from that

567
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: day should ring on into history.

568
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the that guy's story.

569
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 2: What's that?

570
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 3: Do we know that guy's name or will he ever

571
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 3: forever be known to history as that guy?

572
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: I think it's not. I didn't write it down. If

573
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: it was written down in my source.

574
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: Well, he's the hero of this story, absolutely, a guy

575
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: who is bad at his job.

576
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And so they all pile into the hospital.

577
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: Sir Mac held on for a good while longer, like

578
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: like weeks or something, and the doctors thought he was

579
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: going to be fine. He was in serious but not

580
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: critical condition. X rays, which I believe were pretty new

581
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: at the time, determined that the bullet was in a

582
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: safish place to leave it for while he recovered, and

583
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: they were like, you know, taking the bullet out might

584
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: kill him. They were incorrect. I don't want to be like.

585
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 2: They were working with the best available knowledge they had,

586
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: but they were wrong. You know. Eventually it killed him.

587
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: And then our friend Franklin Doomsday, Franklin Doomsday, Roosevelt, thank you,

588
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: came in to visit the next day while Sirmac was

589
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: still alive, and Sirmac these are his last words to Roosevelt.

590
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: He said, basically, this is not a quote, It was

591
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: just a summation. He was like, the teachers. The teachers

592
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: are what matter. Anton pay the teachers.

593
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: Shit.

594
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: This is why I believe that he was actually there

595
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: for that. You know, well, because he is no, he's dying.

596
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: Well he doesn't know if he's dying, but he probably

597
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: feels like he's dying, and he was. You know, he

598
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: also might have said I'm glad it was me and

599
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: not you, and those words are inscribed on his tomb.

600
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: There's no evidence he said it, but it would have

601
00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: been in character.

602
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: Way less noble than hey, make sure you pay the

603
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 3: Chicago public school teachers.

604
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: I know, I know. So Franklin Damien Roosevelt comes out

605
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 2: of this looking like a fucking rock star. He not

606
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: only kept his cool underfire, he stopped his own retreat

607
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: to make sure that the wounded were cared for. And

608
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: then there's like even another moment because there's like cops

609
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: on the running boards and they're like driving away and

610
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: one of the cops falls off, which I think is funny,

611
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 2: but then they stop and make sure the cop gets

612
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: back on, and so he's like he stopped his retreat

613
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: twice to make sure everyone's taken care of.

614
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 3: And did he take care of the teachers?

615
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I don't know. In my mind,

616
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, he did a lot of like under

617
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: his watch, a lot more federal money went into things

618
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: like that.

619
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 3: For sure, into education.

620
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know whether or not he kept

621
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: up his promise to Stirmac or I don't know if

622
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: you even promised it, you know.

623
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the guy took a bullet. You pay the teachers.

624
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: Pay theseus anyway, and then restructure society in a more

625
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: horizontal way. Yeah. But he proved to a lot of

626
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: the world that he had what it took by how

627
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: he handled being literally under fire, keeping his cool, which

628
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: is good because World War Two happened under his watch. Yeah,

629
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: I mean he had to kind of get well, not

630
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: he America had to get drag kicking and screaming into that.

631
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: You know. But in all of this, do you think

632
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: that he can this isn't an ad transition. Do you

633
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: think that he can squeeze in some time to be

634
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: a little bit more fat phobic?

635
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I forgot that you said. The fat

636
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: phobia came back.

637
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: Jesus so that cop who got shot. The bullet ricocheted

638
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: from somewhere else and hit him in the forehead and

639
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: got lodged between his skin and his skull.

640
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 3: Yikes.

641
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: And so Franklin Dumbledore, because I'm saying negative things about him,

642
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 2: Roosevelt said, I think this is a direct quote. Of course,

643
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: no bullet could get through his thick skull, but the

644
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: hospital should starve him so he loses twenty pounds. Jesus

645
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: christ Man just got shot in the forehead for you.

646
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm I'm hardly one to criticize somebody for

647
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 3: taking the opportunity to dunk on a cop, but like, but.

648
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: When you're the cops, boss, it's actually shitty.

649
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 3: It seems in poor taste. Yeah, it seems.

650
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: Rude, I know, I know, unnecessary.

651
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: And then after the incident, at his next stop, I

652
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,719
Speaker 2: think Baltimore, he gets met by literally a thousand cops

653
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: at secret Service agents. They're like, all right, no more.

654
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: He only had six secret Service agents with him in Miami.

655
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: They're like, Noah, that's done. You are uh, you have

656
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: a Philanx with you from now on. And if you

657
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: want your own personal Failanx, you should buy one from

658
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: our sponsor, hire an entire phalanx dot made up website. Yeah,

659
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: our new sponsor. We can get money because I want

660
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,239
Speaker 2: my own, and so I want them to give me

661
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: one as a if I figure, if I promote them enough,

662
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 2: a failanx of what I don't really care could be geese.

663
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: That would be terrifying. A failanx of geese, I would run.

664
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: But I feel like that'd be like the infinite thing

665
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: that Rintrok could just chase forever. You know, yeah, probably

666
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: happy hunting grounds. Well, now I don't want it because

667
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: now I'm comparing it to afterlife and rent trust to

668
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: live for a lot longer. So you know what, cancel

669
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 2: that sponsor and instead let's just go with whatever random

670
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: ads here they are and we're back. But if you

671
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: could have a phalanx of anything, what would you have

672
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: each of you? I think hedgehogs would be nice because

673
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: they have spears.

674
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think they're cute and like I like

675
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 3: the I like the sort of spiky but cuddly vibe.

676
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about like foxes? Does that work in the scenario?

677
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 2: Oh, that'd be good.

678
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 3: Falanx of foxes has a nice alliterative.

679
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally I used to know what a group

680
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: of foxes was called.

681
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: I don't.

682
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: I think it's called an earth. There's a band called

683
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: an Earth of Foxes.

684
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: A group of foxes is called it's called a skulk,

685
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: leash or earth.

686
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, I like a skulk.

687
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: I like a skulk. Foxes make some of the cutest

688
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: noises I've ever heard in my entire life.

689
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 3: They also make some of the most terrifying noises I've

690
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: ever heard in my entire life.

691
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: That's also true, but we're gonna go with the happy

692
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: part of that first.

693
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: Oh my lord, a thousand foxes screaming like tortured people,

694
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: be so metal.

695
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 3: I would run. I would run from them even faster

696
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: than I did from the.

697
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: But you know who didn't run Zangara because he wasn't afraid.

698
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 3: That's true. He was a little tied up.

699
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 2: Also, it's true although literally even in things, all the

700
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: people who kind of hated him and like literally did

701
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: the killing of him spoiler alert, were like, this is

702
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 2: like the bravest man we've ever seen in her life.

703
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 2: They took him to the county jail, they stripped him naked.

704
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: I told you that was going to come back. And

705
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: then at some point they brought a woman in to

706
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: take his statement, so they gave him clothes for a moment,

707
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: and then as soon as she left, they stripped him

708
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: naked again, even though the ostensible purpose of stripping him

709
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: naked was to like search him, you know.

710
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they've made it very clear that the clothes

711
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: are for the benefit of the person doing the interrogation,

712
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 3: not for his benefit.

713
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And he's wearing just a towel and a

714
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 2: bunch of the photos taken in his time there's actually

715
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: fairly striking photos because he's, you know, a foot and

716
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: a half shorter than the guard next to him and stuff,

717
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: you know.

718
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 3: Did Franklin Devin Rose, they'll like stop by to make

719
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 3: any comments about his body once his shirt was off,

720
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 3: Like that just seems to be the theme.

721
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 2: Oh he's really thin. I think I think FDR would

722
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: have liked, would have approved.

723
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: Okay, What's what's so funny is I was like, why

724
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: can't we think is there nobody of note whose name

725
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: starts with D? And then I remembered who the president is.

726
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: I was like, I love that that didn't come to

727
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: any of our minds this entire time. I was like,

728
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: I was like, whose name starts with? Theme was like

729
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: goes like Damian Lillard, okay, Magpie got Dumbledore. I was

730
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: like pretty good, pretty good.

731
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: I was like, who who could it possibly be? Yeah? Yeah,

732
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: no no other D names. That's it. We're out of them.

733
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: No other D names of note.

734
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, Donatello, oh, Ninja Turtle.

735
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 2: Yeah mm hmmm. So at a moment where I was like, yeah,

736
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 2: of course, and I was like, oh, right, he's named

737
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: after someone, the media hit job against Sangara started. Look,

738
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 2: he's no hero, but this is still a media hit job.

739
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: It started within twenty minutes because well, I'll explain why.

740
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 2: Within twenty minutes, the Miami Herald published an extra edition

741
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: of their paper because a reporter ran four blocks to

742
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: a hotel payphone to file a report. And yes, it

743
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 2: was only this week that I realized when newsyes shout

744
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: extra extra, read all about it, they mean an extra

745
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: edition of the paper, like we've already published one today.

746
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 2: Here's an extra.

747
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 3: One, yeah, because something so important just happened that we

748
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 3: had an.

749
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: Extra which also means that people in Miami learned about

750
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: this within twenty minutes, which is like faster than they

751
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: might learn about it. Now. I mean, they might learn

752
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: about it now faster than that, but.

753
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 3: They would have learned even more misinformation about it now

754
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 3: in the first twenty minutes, right.

755
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: And this report called Zangara a swarthy Italian typical of

756
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 2: his breed. Ew Yeah, it's gonna get worse for how

757
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: they feel about Italians not being white. Not that it

758
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: would be okay if they weren't whatever, It's just people

759
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 2: are shitty to people, That's what I'm trying to get at.

760
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: Reporters bribed their way into the jail to get access

761
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 2: to the documents, like just like bribed their way to

762
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 2: be like, hey, let's see the things that we're not

763
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: supposed to see, and then interview him. Another reporter said, quote,

764
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 2: his bulging eyes dilate in the dim light as he speaks.

765
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: His hair dark and curly, is awry. His face is dark,

766
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 2: the heavy growth of beard common to his race showing prominently.

767
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 3: He stared italianly.

768
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 2: I know, well, they all wrote his accent out.

769
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's always an early nineteenth and early twentieth century journalists.

770
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 3: If they didn't like you, they would transcribe your dialect

771
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: and it sucked.

772
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: Uh huh. And it's interesting because I mean it. I

773
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: mean it continues to happen in literature to this day,

774
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: but it started falling out of fashion and people realizing

775
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: that it's usually just racism. But it certainly happened to

776
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: people of color a lot longer, and it happened to

777
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: Italians and like ethnic whites. But like they would always

778
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: constantly write about how he wants to keel the president

779
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: k E e L hmmm. A really obnoxious sheriff did

780
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: the interview with him. But weirdly, the stenographer who came

781
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 2: and did the stenography for it was this woman who

782
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: actually tried to reverse all of that and actually like

783
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 2: edited his English to be clearer.

784
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 3: She was like, fuck off, I know how to spell.

785
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm also just like fixing like grammar and

786
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 2: stuff like that because he, oh interesting, he didn't speak

787
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 2: with clean English grammar. He could read and listen and

788
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: understand clean English grammar perfectly fine, but.

789
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 3: He did not grow up in an English speaking country

790
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 3: and he went to school for two months. Get off

791
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 3: his back.

792
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he speaks more languages than you. When they arrested

793
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 2: him and they went to his room, they found that

794
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: cheap suitcase with nice clothes, and they found a bunch

795
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: of books and they were like English grammar books and

796
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 2: a Spanish like instruction book and like just stuff like

797
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 2: that because he was teaching himself things.

798
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 3: Interview him an Italian if y'all are so smart.

799
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 2: Well, the sheriff claimed to have. I don't believe him, No,

800
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: no one does. Because he did it in English interspersed

801
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: with Spanish words. He would be like that ombre over there.

802
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 3: Oh my god. More people who should be embarrassed, be.

803
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: Like Mucco, Not even mucho Grazzi's, but like Mucco. Thanks.

804
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: You know.

805
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: It's like it when you know, when I was in

806
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 3: high school and like the kid who was never actually

807
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 3: in class would show up to Spanish class for once

808
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 3: and like be like, oh I uh nido to go

809
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 3: to el bathroom?

810
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally. Only that's pretending to speak Spanish. He's

811
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 2: just speaking Spanish and claiming it's Italian. To be fair,

812
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: the way that I got by in Italy was by

813
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 2: speaking Spanish, but I didn't pretend it was a Italian. Yeah.

814
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 3: Oh I've had I've had some conversations with Portuguese speakers.

815
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we're like, look, if you speak a

816
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: Romance language, we'll figure it out. I have a better

817
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: chance with Spanish than I do it English.

818
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 3: You know, we will figure this out. Yeah, but I

819
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 3: will not claim to be speaking your language. And I

820
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 3: will be a little embarrassed about this situation, and I

821
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: will not rag about it.

822
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 2: Also, Seppi speaks English perfectly fine, and so he kept saying,

823
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: I understand you fine, please just speak English, God Jesus Christ.

824
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 2: And then like the guy kept being like, do you

825
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: know how to read? And he's like, yes, you arrested

826
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 2: me with books, you know, like I had a newspaper

827
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 2: in my pocket, like you know, like he just had

828
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: a heavy accent. Giuseppe spoke really candidly about what he'd

829
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 2: done and why he'd done it. He said he wanted

830
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: to keel all the rich people who quote tread the

831
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 2: poorer people under their feet. He said, quote rich men

832
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 2: send their children to school, and when I was a

833
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: young man, rich men's son went to school while I

834
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: worked in a brick factory in Italy and burned myself.

835
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 2: He would like show the scar on his side, you know,

836
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: because he's like naked in front of him or whatever.

837
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 2: They asked what he thought about the president, and he said,

838
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 2: as a man, I like mister Roosevelt, but as a president,

839
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: I want to kill him. He said, quote, yes, I

840
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 2: kill president. I tried. I want to kill him because

841
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: I hate government. If he didn't die, I am sorry.

842
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: Sorry I didn't kill him, So if I kill him,

843
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 2: I am glad. He said he didn't care what happened

844
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: to him, because quote, I'm half dead now because the

845
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 2: capitalists they make me this way. And the sheriff asked, really,

846
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: I think this first funny. The sheriff asked, do you

847
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: like anarchism as the direct quote, and he said, no, foolish.

848
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: What about socialism? No more foolish?

849
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: Ah.

850
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 2: Nice. He didn't like COMMUNI, he didn't like fascism, he

851
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 2: didn't like Mussolini. He was very clear he had no

852
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: organizational ties besides being member of the union, which he

853
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 2: did not like very much, but he joined because it

854
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: was the only way to get work. They asked him

855
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: whether he wanted to kill the sheriff like someone else

856
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 2: in the room. The guard was like, well, do you

857
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: want to kill the sheriff? And he said he would

858
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 2: not kill working men like himself. And so that's why

859
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: I feel like on some level he's probably not like hey,

860
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: I got everyone in the crowd. He just didn't care,

861
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 2: which isn't you should care? You shouldn't kill people.

862
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, just don't fire into crowds. Yeah, if you don't

863
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 3: want to kill random people in the crowd, don't fire

864
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 3: into a crowd.

865
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 2: Right. He said he had not discussed the plan with anyone.

866
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 2: He had no accomplices. He also said he had no friends.

867
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 2: He said he didn't believe in God. He believed in

868
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: things he could see, like the earth, the sky, and

869
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 2: the moon. They asked where he thought he'd go when

870
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: he died, and they meant like, are you going to

871
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: heaven or hell? You killed some people, and he said, quote,

872
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,240
Speaker 2: I go in the ground. Nice fucking goes hard.

873
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

874
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 2: He never showed the slightest bit of remorse. His stomach

875
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: hurt from being overworked and abused. He blamed the capitalist government.

876
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 2: It was right to kill the leaders of the capitalist government.

877
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 2: And he didn't mind that he was going to die.

878
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 2: He said, over and over again, I am right, and

879
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 2: my life is ended. The Secret Service initially guessed that

880
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: he was an anarchist with connection to groups in Patterson,

881
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 2: New Jersey, but then they determined that he wasn't. They

882
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: did this huge report. They traveled all over the country,

883
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: they interviewed everyone that he'd ever met, and then that

884
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 2: report disappeared in nineteen forty five, and we don't know

885
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: what's in it.

886
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 3: Ah damn.

887
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 2: I see how people end up conspiracy minded or true

888
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: crime brained, because almost certainly there was nothing of particular

889
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: note in that report, and it matches what every other

890
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: newspaper and witness agreed on, and everything is exactly what

891
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: we think it is.

892
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 3: What made it disappear like what happens?

893
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: It was like transferred to the White House, and then

894
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: it just kind of people lost track of it.

895
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: That's how storties get misinterpreted. Did people get called heroes, villains?

896
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, you name it. Yeah.

897
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 3: I mean I think we can say he did not

898
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 3: have links to any anarchists in Patterson, New Jersey, because

899
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 3: if they had even found a hint of it, there

900
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 3: would have been a fucking witch hunt.

901
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: They did arrest a bunch of people he knew, eventually

902
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: let everyone out. That is the main reason that I agree.

903
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: I think that they there were like different cops and

904
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 2: agencies coming forward to being like, oh, we've been after

905
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 2: him for years, been foiling his bomb making ring. Of anarchists,

906
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 2: but it looked like they'd probably just made all that up.

907
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds not true.

908
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 2: Also, people claim that he'd been working to kill Mussolini

909
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 2: or Hoover, which is really funny because he had been

910
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: working to try and kill the king, although actually some

911
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 2: historians have been like, we have no evidence that he

912
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: actually did that. It's just his own word, but I

913
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 2: see no reason why would have lied about it. Or

914
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 2: they claimed that he was in touch with the now

915
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 2: underground Italian anarchist group the New Era. Other people assume

916
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 2: he meant to kill cermac all along, that he'd been

917
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: working for al Capone or maybe an Italian crime family

918
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: as part of some big international thing. This is whatever,

919
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 2: but he became a folk hero to some people. While

920
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 2: he was in jail, people did old fashioned fed posting.

921
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 2: Five unemployed brickmakers from Patterson were arrested because one of

922
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 2: them wrote a friend a joke letter, and this is

923
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: the like when I say joke letter, I'm like, or

924
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 2: there's something here right. The letter was quote with my

925
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: most sincere regrets, I'm forced to tell you of my

926
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 2: brother bricklayer's unsuccessful attempt on the life of our president's

927
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: elect if I were the one who had the honor

928
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: of shooting at our present president, I assure you that

929
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 2: I would take a week to practice and make a

930
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: good job of it. It seems a shame to have

931
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: in our midst a man of such poor aim. I

932
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 2: do believe we should have a place where we could

933
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: all go and practice up on our shooting as it

934
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: looks like an open seat on presidents and politicians. That's

935
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 2: like a joke, but not a joke.

936
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 3: It's like not a it's not that funny, no, But

937
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 3: it also isn't what somebody would say if they were

938
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 3: part of an organization that was trying to shoot people.

939
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: And like in a clear text letter that they yeah.

940
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that isn't that just doesn't ring. It does

941
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: not have the ring of truth to it. No, neither

942
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 3: is it funny. But it's like Luigi posting. It's a

943
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 3: thing like people aren't.

944
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 2: Being like, oh I I helped him, but instead they're

945
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: like fuck those rich people.

946
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 3: I did enjoy all those posts that people made where

947
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 3: they were like, oh yeah, Luigi, he was with me

948
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 3: all week and yeah, specifically between the hours of five

949
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: and eight am.

950
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 2: With bad photoshop jobs.

951
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that was funny. I surely had a

952
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 3: good time with that.

953
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 2: Someone wrote Zangara a letter in code into the jail

954
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: that was easily deciphered by the guards that congratulated him

955
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: on his good work and mentioned some other places where

956
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 2: politicians that he could go kill. The guy who wrote

957
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 2: this again just fed posting. It's just nothing changes. Nothing

958
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: changes is the moral here.

959
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 3: Photoshop had not been invented yet, so he could not

960
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 3: do a bad photoshop for a joke, right.

961
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 2: The guy put his own return address on the letter,

962
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: with a self addressed postcard inside so that he could

963
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: hear back from his hero. He was taken to an

964
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: insane asylum where he lived the rest of his life.

965
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 3: Jesus.

966
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then people started sending letter bombs and shit

967
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,919
Speaker 2: and like threats to different politicians and stuff that would

968
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: say things like I am a friend of Zangara and

969
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 2: I want to take up the work he failed to do.

970
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: I kill all presidents, governors and millionaires. They were like

971
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: even copying his style of speaking. You know, yeah, I

972
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: hate policemen and kill all your officers who I see

973
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 2: on street at midnight.

974
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 3: Yeah there, I mean, it's this is very like, this

975
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: is a.

976
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 2: Meme yeah, m hmm, totally. J Egar Hoover, the head

977
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 2: of the FBI. I wrote basically, there's no sign of

978
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 2: a conspiracy. He'd never been in Chicago and he was

979
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 2: there to kill FDR once again.

980
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 3: J Edgar Hoover saw conspiracies everywhere, Like I feel like

981
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 3: if there had been one, he would have noticed.

982
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: Sure, Jesus Edgar Hoover, he would have done it. Yeah,

983
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: unless he's in on it. Sorry.

984
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 3: I a while back, a movie about Jay Edgar Hoover

985
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 3: came out. I did not see it, but I saw

986
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 3: a trailer for it, and then they introduced the character.

987
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 3: The guy's like, this is John, He's our new up

988
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 3: and comer from the Bureau. And the guy like looks

989
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 3: straight into the camera and goes, Actually, I prefer Jay Edgar,

990
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 3: And I think about it every time I think about

991
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 3: j Edgar Hoover.

992
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: So funny, he's so bad.

993
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: So funny, that's all irrelevant.

994
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: And so all throughout his trial he showed no remorse,

995
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 2: he showed no fear. He was just very clear. He's

996
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 2: very consistent. And this was commented on heavily in the press.

997
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: Basically he's on trial and then Sir Macte and so

998
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: I was on death row, and he writes that memoir

999
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 2: while he's on death row. Since the government file is lost.

1000
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: This is the single biggest source we have on his life.

1001
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 2: It is written in chapters, some of which are only

1002
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: a few sentences or paragraphs long. Each one ends with,

1003
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 2: thus ends the twelfth chapter of my life or whatever.

1004
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: Nice when I read from it earlier to be like

1005
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 2: when I was three, I fell in down the stairs,

1006
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: it goes, and thus ended the second chapter of my

1007
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: life when I was four, you know, And I want

1008
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 2: to read you some of this because some of the

1009
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 2: ones near the end of it. It's it's funny because

1010
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 2: again historians are like, we don't know what he believed.

1011
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 2: It's a mystery. But let me just read to you

1012
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 2: some of this stuff that he wrote that everyone had

1013
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 2: access to the whole time. Thirty third chapter. I will

1014
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 2: now tell you what I think about religion. My belief

1015
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 2: is that all religion was invented by capitalists. They invented

1016
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 2: them so people would respect their property. The Roman Catholic

1017
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 2: religion is the first one to talk about hell all caps.

1018
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 2: The priests do not do anything, and what they preach

1019
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 2: they know is false. They are like sharks working for

1020
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 2: the capitalists and spreading their propaganda and living off of

1021
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 2: the people who go to church and believe them. They

1022
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: talk of paradise in the next world, but there is

1023
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 2: no such thing. I believe that a person is in

1024
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 2: paradise when he has good health and plenty of money,

1025
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: and purgatory is when a person has good health and

1026
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 2: is working for a living. I believe that hell is

1027
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: when a person is sick and in misery, and that

1028
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: death ends it all. If I had my way, I

1029
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 2: would put all priests in hell so no one could

1030
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 2: save them. I believe that if all money is burned,

1031
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: it would do away with the priest's paradise. This finishes

1032
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 2: the thirty third chapter, and I'm going to read another

1033
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 2: one a second. But like, that goes pretty hard, I know,

1034
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: and it's kind of interesting because it didn't go anti semitic.

1035
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 3: I appreciate that. Of course, the shark metaphor really did

1036
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 3: not work because he's like, they are like sharks who

1037
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 3: work for capitalism spread propaganda. I'm like, sharks don't.

1038
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 2: Do that at all. Yeah, no, no, again, Like you know,

1039
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 2: very direct writer, but not necessarily the most polished. Thirty

1040
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: fourth chapter my idea, idea gets a capital eye, which

1041
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 2: is actually made me think that there might be an

1042
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 2: anarchist inspiration to that part of it, because the anarchists

1043
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: used to be called the idea of the capital eye

1044
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 2: when we were more openly sounded like a cult. My

1045
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: idea is just. I was always against the capitalist. This

1046
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: is the reason why I wanted to kill the head

1047
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 2: of this government, because the people that run the government

1048
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: do not work, and the poor working people have to

1049
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 2: support them. They suck the blood out of the poor people,

1050
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 2: and it is my belief that they ought to be killed.

1051
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 2: The poor support them on their shoulders. They are no good.

1052
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 2: They have all the money tied up. The poor are

1053
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: willing to work, but cannot because it takes money to

1054
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,479
Speaker 2: make work. So what is the use of having money

1055
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 2: if the poor cannot have any to buy their food.

1056
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 2: What we ought to do is kill all of the capitalists,

1057
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: burn all of the money, and form a civil society

1058
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 2: of communism. I have nothing more to say. Tomorrow I

1059
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 2: go to the electric chair to die, but I am

1060
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 2: not afraid. I go contented because I go from my idea.

1061
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 2: I salute all of the poor of the world. A

1062
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 2: Riva Derci Zangara Juseppi, damn. Yeah, he definitely said what

1063
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 2: he believed, like, yeah.

1064
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: There's there's not really a lot that you uh miss there. Yeah,

1065
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: like not mysterious, not mysterious, Miriam is exactly right, not mysterious,

1066
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: Thank you, Miriam.

1067
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just didn't make sense to them, So they

1068
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 2: were like, you're just saying crazy things. You can't just

1069
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 2: get rid of money and have communism that doesn't map

1070
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 2: to anything that I understand in nineteen thirty three, Like

1071
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: what fuck you?

1072
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 3: I really do wonder how much of it was coming

1073
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 3: from the fact that it just did not map for

1074
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 3: people that he was talking about killing capitalists and the

1075
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 3: person he had targeted was FDR and that like, by

1076
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 3: the American standard totally that didn't compute.

1077
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a huge part of it. And

1078
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 2: so go afraid to the electric chair is exactly what

1079
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 2: he did. He marched into the death chamber with his

1080
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: head held high. Final mystery. He handed a few notebooks

1081
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: to the warden, who said they contained only personal requests

1082
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 2: and they have never been published. They probably contained personal

1083
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 2: requests and which never published, but like, sure.

1084
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 3: I hope at least one of them was like somebody

1085
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 3: punched my.

1086
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 2: Dad, I know right. Guards tried to lead him to

1087
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 2: the chair, but he said, no, don't touch me. I

1088
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 2: go myself. I know, fraid of electric chair. I show you.

1089
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 2: I go sit down all by myself. And he went

1090
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 2: to the chair and he hesitated, and then he hopped

1091
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 2: down on the chair. One person was like, as though

1092
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 2: someone sitting down at a barber.

1093
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 4: Hmm.

1094
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: He thought the chair was already electrified. Hmmm. He looked surprised.

1095
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 2: When he sat down on the chair. He was like

1096
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 2: still alive. So he looked up around and was like, see,

1097
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 2: I know afraid of electric chair. His feet didn't touch

1098
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 2: the floor. Is the smallest person that they had ever

1099
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: murdered in the electric chair. They struggled to fit the

1100
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 2: cap to his head since his head was so small,

1101
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 2: and then they put a black hood over his head,

1102
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 2: and he spoke his last words, Viva Italia, goodbye to

1103
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 2: all poor people everywhere. Then he said, and this is

1104
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 2: the only part I'm gonna do where I'm gonna do

1105
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 2: his Italian because that's the way it's written. But I

1106
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 2: actually think at some point it's almost just evocative. He said,

1107
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 2: push it to button, Go ahead, push it to button

1108
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 2: and that's uh, that's the end of justep. He's on Garam.

1109
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 3: That is a sad story, fucking tragedy.

1110
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is a sick, empathetic character. Who you know,

1111
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 2: He's like, I I have nothing more to say, goodbye

1112
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: to the poor people.

1113
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1114
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 2: I think about how we were talking during break about

1115
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: how this compares to Leon Shogosh. And for anyone who's listening,

1116
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 2: Leon Schogosh was a He was an anarchist. He was

1117
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 2: actually US born. Everyone thought he wasn't, but he was.

1118
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 3: They couldn't spell his last name, so they figured he

1119
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 3: must be foreign, right.

1120
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 2: Also because he was an anarchist, they literally were like,

1121
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: there are no American born anarchists, is what they claim.

1122
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 2: At the time, he killed President McKinley, and he had

1123
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 2: been ostracized from the anarchist scene. He actually was an anarchist,

1124
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 2: he was very clear about it, but he'd been ostracized

1125
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 2: from the scene. People didn't trust him. People thought he

1126
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 2: was a FED. Basically fed didn't even exist yet.

1127
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 3: There had been Emma Goldman had written a letter about him,

1128
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 3: an open letter in an anarchist publication that was basically saying,

1129
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 3: like everyone has been going around saying that this guy

1130
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 3: who keeps trying to join anarchist groups is a spy.

1131
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 3: He's just awkward. Stop saying that he's a spy. Be

1132
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 3: nice to him.

1133
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think and I've seen this happen in

1134
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 2: smaller ways where people when they when they discover a cause,

1135
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: they want to get involved, and if they're socially ostracized,

1136
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 2: they will find ways to act on their own. And

1137
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 2: most of the ways that people want to act on

1138
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 2: their own around certain radical ideas are poor strategic decisions.

1139
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he both believed that killing McKinley would

1140
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 3: be an effect of political act, but I think that

1141
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 3: like one of the main reasons might have been that

1142
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 3: he wanted to prove to other anarchists that he was

1143
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 3: legit right.

1144
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 2: And I think that obviously GISEPPI wasn't in anarchists or

1145
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 2: communist circles as far as anyone can tell.

1146
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 3: And I think also as people on reality TV say

1147
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 3: was not there to make friends, that's true, you know,

1148
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 3: and I think chol Gosh was there to make friends

1149
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 3: and wasn't good at it.

1150
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: But I think that they, like I think this is

1151
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: a reason to talk about why we need to be

1152
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: inclusive mm hmmm, because there's people who who want to

1153
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 2: make the world better for very good reasons, and I

1154
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 2: think that a social direction is a much more useful one,

1155
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: one that is socially constructed, one that like we get

1156
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 2: together and say, like, what is a good way to

1157
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: make the world a better place. You know, I'm not

1158
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 2: trying to be like individual acts of no purpose or whatever,

1159
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 2: like I'm not trying to make sweeping generalizations here, But

1160
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 2: I just see this and I'm like, I see why

1161
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 2: he was isolated from everyone. He didn't really like people,

1162
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: and then he just suffered all the time and he

1163
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 2: felt really alienated by that. But I'm like, I wish

1164
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 2: he had gotten to feel supported and like, yeah, I

1165
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 2: don't know.

1166
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 3: And with chol Gosh, he did this thing. He assassinated

1167
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 3: the president for the you know what he saw as

1168
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 3: like the anarchist cause, and I think to prove himself

1169
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 3: to anarchists. Most anarchists immediately decry, you know, like his

1170
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 3: actions and like said like, oh, this is like not

1171
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 3: at all okay. And then there was a huge crackdown

1172
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 3: on anarchists in the United States.

1173
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 2: And it more or less ended anarchism as ah it

1174
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 2: didn't help the anarchist movement in the US.

1175
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. It really harmed the anarchist movement in the US,

1176
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 3: and it, you know, was not strategic. Yeah, and you know,

1177
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 3: and of course he was executed too. And like, had

1178
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 3: he found a community when he showed up looking for

1179
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 3: an anarchist community, I think that that would have gone

1180
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 3: really differently totally, because he very obviously did not sit

1181
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 3: down with anybody else and say like, so I'm thinking

1182
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 3: of killing McKinley. Yeah, And I think if he had,

1183
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 3: and he had had people like who had his and

1184
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 3: the movement's best interests at heart, they would have been like, hey,

1185
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 3: I no, that's not a great idea. Why don't you

1186
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 3: help organize industrial workers?

1187
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, because it's like most of the time the

1188
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 2: things that actually changed things are less glamorous and more

1189
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: work and like involve working with people.

1190
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't know, but there's always work for

1191
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 3: the client guy who's not good at working with people too.

1192
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 3: You know, everybody else is out there organizing factory workers

1193
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 3: and somebody needs to take notes, you.

1194
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: Know, No, totally, and it's like there's still ways to

1195
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 2: be And I say, this is like I live alone

1196
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 2: on a mountain, you know, by choice. Yeah, my favorite

1197
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 2: person is my dog, and like you all are great too,

1198
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 2: but I can't.

1199
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 3: I can't compare to rentro We know your dog is phenomenal, we.

1200
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, And so there is a place for the introvert.

1201
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 2: There is a place for the people who like And

1202
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 2: most of my work is self directed, but I see

1203
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: it within this larger framework, and it is a terrible

1204
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to make one to one comparisons here,

1205
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 2: and especially right now, I'd be terrified too, but you know,

1206
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 2: and and Zangara also he isn't show gosh right, he's

1207
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 2: but he's more of just like a person who organically

1208
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 2: on kind of his own, but probably through conversation too.

1209
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 2: Like it's probably something that was in the air hit upon.

1210
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 2: Capitalism is the problem rich kids getting to go to

1211
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 2: school while I'm digging dirt by the side of the

1212
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 2: road when I'm five years old is a problem. And

1213
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 2: he had no particular interest in continuing to live because

1214
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 2: of the misery that he felt he had been put

1215
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 2: into by capitalism, and he just wanted a way to

1216
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 2: try to help by lashing out. And I don't think

1217
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 2: it was I don't think it was good. And the

1218
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 2: Shakespearean level of tragedy of killing the guy who was

1219
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 2: working on exactly his issue is written by a cruel god.

1220
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 3: You know, the fact that the only person who actually

1221
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 3: died from his attack was like the guy who was

1222
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 3: explicitly there to ensure that poor children got to go

1223
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 3: to school.

1224
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 2: He would have gone to go to school. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1225
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 2: And that's why you don't kill random people.

1226
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 5: The episodes, Yeah, this has been a PSA about not

1227
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 5: firing a gun into a crowd, a thing we can't

1228
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 5: believe we have to tell people not to do.

1229
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm sure, actually, I know specifically next week I'll

1230
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 2: be back with things that are more bull throatedly positive

1231
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 2: things in the world. But for now, is there anything

1232
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 2: you want to plug?

1233
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, that was a fucking fascinating story,

1234
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 3: and I'm really glad you told it to me, so

1235
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 3: thank you. I'm sorry I gave you grief for it

1236
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 3: not being as happy as I was expecting. But that's

1237
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 3: like the pattern around here.

1238
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 2: Also, yeah, I like to mix it up, so people

1239
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 2: are always a little bit anxious, you know, where it's like, yeah,

1240
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 2: three quarters of the time you're gonna end up really

1241
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 2: happy and then you know, yeah.

1242
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 3: And nothing else that's been happening this week has made

1243
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 3: me anxious, So I really appreciate it. As far as

1244
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 3: things to plug, I would like to plug the podcasting

1245
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 3: collective and publishing collective that you and I are in

1246
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 3: Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness. We publish books, we publish zines,

1247
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 3: we publish podcasts, we publish RPGs, We do it all.

1248
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 3: It's so cool. People should check out Strangers in a

1249
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 3: Tangled Wilderness. They should even like, maybe check out our Patreon,

1250
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 3: and they should help support the kickstarter for this new

1251
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 3: book by this exciting author named Margaret Kiljoy. And that

1252
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 3: book is called The Immortal Choir Holds Every Voice.

1253
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 2: No, it's the Eternal.

1254
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 3: I'm hanging up right now.

1255
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 2: It is The Immortal Choir. Yeah. I wrote another book

1256
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 2: in the Daniel Kaine series. It's going to come out

1257
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,919
Speaker 2: this summer, but it's going to kickstart in March. And

1258
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:45,919
Speaker 2: if you go back and want to hear the first book,

1259
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 2: it's called The Lamble Slaughter of the Lion. I told

1260
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: you no one will be able to remember the titles

1261
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 2: of my books, but it's the very first episodes of

1262
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 2: Cool Zone Media book Club, and then I kind of

1263
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 2: want to plug Dinah Wars. But if you listen to

1264
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 2: this podcast, you probably know about Dinah Wars. Dino Wars

1265
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 2: are happening every Uncle's n Media book Club because it's

1266
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 2: been really fun to write podcasts from the future, and

1267
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: Sophie's in one of them.

1268
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 3: And the second Daniel Kane book is called The Barrel

1269
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 3: Will Send What It May? I do remember the names

1270
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 3: of your books.

1271
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 2: Well done.

1272
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 3: All three books are great. People should read them, Yeah,

1273
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 3: and like adapt them to a TV series. I think

1274
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 3: they would make an amazing TV series.

1275
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 2: But I agree, Yeah, I think soby.

1276
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we finally did the Oprah episodes on Behind the Bastard,

1277
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 1: So if you're like, oh, you've been waiting for those,

1278
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: it's a sixth parter. Most of them are out, should

1279
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: be all out by the time this or almost out

1280
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: by the time these drops.

1281
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, then that last one will be tomorrow.

1282
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 1: Probably probably allegedly so many parts.

1283
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Oprah has been such a recurring character all

1284
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 2: throughout Behind the Bastards that makes sense. Yeah, It's like

1285
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 2: could be when I finally do Mala Testa.

1286
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: You know, also, she's been so relevant for so many

1287
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: decks gids.

1288
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, the excellent podcast Maintenance Face, which would have a

1289
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 3: lot to say about Franklin Dionysus Roosevelt's the best one,

1290
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 3: all right, Sorry about his fat shaming. They they have

1291
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 3: basically done it behind the Bastards on specifically the diet

1292
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 3: culture aspect of Oprah's work, as.

1293
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 1: Has my dear friend Sarah Marshall. And you're wrong about Oh.

1294
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 3: Oh, I love that one.

1295
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 2: There's so many good shows, but you shouldn't listen to

1296
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 2: any of them except this one, except this.

1297
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 3: One and the Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness ones.

1298
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are fine if Sophie or Miriam or me

1299
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 2: is on it, or is produced by any of those people,

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01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 2: or you just like it, or has Sarah Marshall?

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01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 1: Sure if I've described somebody as my dear friend permitted?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no Sarah Marshall's grandfather yet, or I guess people

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Speaker 2: just listen whatever they want.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, listen whatever you want.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: That's podcast, Bye everyone, Bye bye. Cool People Who Did

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Speaker 1: Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media. For

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01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website Foolzonemedia

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Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.