WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Dreams, Subs and Goddesses 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.520 My welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:14.160 Stuff Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.280 Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:18.959 Joe McCormick, and we're coming at you with a listener 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.760 mail episode today. But we're broadcasting from the depths. We're 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.840 down here in a in a nuclear submarine. It happens 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:32.080 because apparently Submarine Command has appropriated our mail bought Carney. Yeah, yeah, 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.720 we call it Deep Star seven, um and uh, and 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:37.840 that's where we're hanging out for this episode. Yeah, Carney 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:39.240 has been working down here in the deep, in the 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.640 shadowy depths, which is which is perfect because some of 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:44.959 the listener mail that we're going to be reading here 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.560 today does relate to our recent episode on the idea 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.720 on on studies related to to sleep and even dreaming 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:58.000 within the confines of a of a nuclear ballistic missile submarine. Now, 0:00:58.040 --> 0:00:59.680 as always, we've got to say that we don't have 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.480 time to respond to or read on the podcast all 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.120 of the great listener mail we get. Just rest assured 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:07.720 we we do try to read it all, uh, and 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:09.760 so so thank you so much for sending it. But 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.560 today you're going to get a selection of some of 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.200 the stuff we've gotten since the last episode, the last 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:18.479 listener mail episode, UH, concerning all kinds of things concerning 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:23.000 quantum immortality, UH, submarines and the Alphabet and the Goddess 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.160 and all kinds of good stuff. But maybe we should 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:27.680 start with some of the responses to the Alphabet and 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.600 the Goddess episodes. Yeah, we heard from a number of 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.559 people about about this one, you know, in part because 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.440 it does have a lot of really thought provoking ideas 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.520 in it. But then also there are some issues with 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.840 with with some of the uh, the main pieces that 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.320 Slain uh was was utilizing in the work. Yeah, So 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.560 if you'll recall, we we did a couple episodes on 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.960 this book, The Alphabet and the Goddess by Leonard Slain, 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.680 his book from the late nineties that made this sort 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:59.680 of historical neuroscience argument that the rise of patriarchy and 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.640 the klein or the relative decline of the power of 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:07.320 goddesses and religious pantheons around the world was somehow correlated 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.280 with the rise of alphabetic writing. And he makes a 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:14.280 lot of arguments based on hemispheric lateralization of the brain 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:19.280 and UH and how that how that's correlated with gender roles, 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.280 and how that's correlated with alphabetic writing. And so we 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.160 discussed in the original episode that we were that we 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.000 were doing the topic because we thought it was kind 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.680 of thought provoking and raised good questions, not because we 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.480 were endorsing it as correct right, And I think it 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.800 also within the context of the episode, we we discussed 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.040 some of the areas where where I think his argument 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.520 was a bit weak, such as when it comes to 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:47.600 a Chinese writing or the Hindu pantheon. Well, and just 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.120 generally the idea that that I got the feeling we 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.920 might be dealing with some historical cherry picking in his arguments, 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:59.040 that he was, you know, sort of selectively emphasizing the 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:03.120 characteristic of societies or parts of societies that helped his 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.639 argument and and not necessarily always giving the most balanced 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.959 reading of things. Now, those were the kinds of concerns 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.480 we raised in the original episode. I will say, actually, 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.000 since then, I think I've I've become even more skeptical 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.000 of his argument because I've I've started to wonder if 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.399 not just his argument about the explanation for the rise 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.040 of patriarchy is flawed, but I wonder if some of 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.560 his underlying assumptions are flawed to like I think in 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.960 the future, especially based on some some feedback we got 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.440 after the episode that we should do an episode on 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:39.200 the future questioning what the what the gender roles of 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.720 prehistoric societies actually were, Like, what is the evidence from 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:48.160 anthropology and archaeology and everything um about how gender dynamics 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.560 work in prehistoric societies. Yeah, yeah, I would love to 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.360 examine that, particularly when you get in not only you 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:57.240 know what we can tell about ancient humans, but also 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:01.080 ancient Neanderthals. You know, what exactly was the dynamic and 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.000 what is the what is the relation between that ancient 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.040 dynamic and the place we are today. Yeah, so that's 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.440 an episode for the near future. But today we did 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.760 want to review some of the most interesting listener mail 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.360 that we got in response to the Alphabet and the 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.760 Goddess episode. So Robert, you want to jump in with 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.400 the first one? Sure? This one comes to us from Amelia. 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.840 Amelia writes, I just started listening to the podcast a 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.360 couple of months ago, and I've been loving it. I 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:27.360 was especially excited when I saw the episode for The 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.240 Alphabet and the Goddess. The transition from matriarchal to patriarchal 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.760 religions in the ancient world has always was always a 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.640 topic that interest me. In college, I studied classical studies 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.279 as a minor with a concentration on ancient Greece. I 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.000 was interested to see if you would discuss Minoan and 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.200 my Sinian culture in ancient Greece and a change in 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.479 religious symbols as a part of the discussion. Since it 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.240 wasn't part of the discussion, I thought I'd write in 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.960 and tell you a little of what I know. The 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:56.160 Minoans were a seafaring civilization on crete in the Bronze Age, 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.800 most famously known for its relation to King Minos and 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.839 minote our myths. Yeah, man minotaur is one of my 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.680 favorite monsters. I feel like one of the most underutilized monsters. 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.240 They are there, They are tremendous, and I love it 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.320 when somebody gets them right. The old Jim Hinson Storyteller 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.920 series did a pretty good job with the minotaur. Um 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.680 of course, House of Leaves of the Horror novel well, 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.720 we'll just say book Uh does a fabulous job with 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.800 the minotaur, and Uh the Dungeons and Dragons treatment of 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.120 menatars is actually pretty good. Oh they're not just like 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.240 some brute that's gonna throw you around. Well, they are 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:33.880 a brute, they'll throw you around, but they have a 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.200 pretty high wisdom and they can't become lost in amaze. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.200 Oh I like that, but sorry, we should go on 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.280 with Amelia's email. So after mentioning, uh, the Minoans being 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.520 related to King Minos and minotaur myths, yes, she continues quote. 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.279 It is thought that the snake was used as a 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.600 symbol of fertility or rebirth, similar to other cultures in 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.760 the Middle East. So we think there was some quote 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.440 unquote mother goddess aspect to Minoan religion and culture. As 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.719 the Bronze Age progress that the Myscenians settled on the mainland, 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.120 they were a more patriarchal and militaristic people. They lived 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.080 in citadels in the mountains and depicted soldiers in their art. 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.480 Their culture can represent the invasion of the male sky 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:17.680 god and established ancient Earth goddess religions. As Indo Europeans 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:21.359 move south, eventually the Minoan culture collapsed in Myssinian culture 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.760 survived to influence the later Classical Greek periods. I think 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.200 the most interesting thing to me about this transition is 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.240 the change in symbology that makes it to present day. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.280 We can look over time and see the snake turn 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.960 from this worship symbol of fertility and earth to this 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.159 hated symbol of trickery and evil. We see in the 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.520 Bible that the snake is the tempter and the devil 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.159 in the garden of Eden Medusa, a generally evil character 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.240 in Greek myth, has hair of snakes. Could this be 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.919 the patriarchal culture's way of displacing matriarchal religious symbols anti 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.559 snake propaganda and religious stories. It's something to think about. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.039 The Manoan and Messenian periods are just a place in 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.320 history to study that transition. Looking at the cultures writing systems, 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.520 Manowan's used a yet to be deciphered writing system called 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.839 linear A, while the Messenians use Linear B, which is 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:12.720 mostly h deciphered. Linear B used a combination of syllabic 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:16.960 and ideographic characters. It is thought linear A is similar. 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:19.200 I'm not sure if that muddies the waters of the 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:21.440 argument you presented in the series of episodes, but I 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.840 agree that the premise uses a lot of generalizations to 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.040 try and make a point. I just thought i'd share 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.280 this lesser known slice of history. The Manoans are a 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.040 particularly interesting people, and I and I think they don't 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:33.480 get enough attention, so I like to talk about them 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.080 when I can keep up the great work. Guys. Well, 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.920 that's a great email, Thank you, Amelia. Um So, Yeah, 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.600 I do think the Manoans are interesting and we should 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:43.520 do more to study that. One of the things that 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.040 comes up here is uh, something I guess we got 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.040 out a minute ago, the question of actually how female 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:54.200 friendly these earlier, lesser understood cultures actually were. Now, one 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.760 of the types of feedback we got from some classic 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:01.000 scholars after the episode was like a mining the idea 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.440 that there's this popular idea that there was this sort 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:09.360 of universal, worldwide matriarchal, goddess based culture before there was 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.280 before there was civilization and before there was written history, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:14.880 and there's a lot of evidence that that's just not true. Now, 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:19.080 the question might be, was the preliterate pre civilization society 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:25.520 more female friendly or more matriarchal but maybe not actually matriarchal? Yeah, Like, 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:27.960 I don't even think Schlaine made the argument at least, 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.800 and that in the book we discussed that that culture 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:36.440 was ever largely matriarchal right. Uh, it's just a question 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:41.280 of was it more balanced at some point? Um? Yeah, 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.120 so I think that is certainly an area of discussion. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.280 You know. Another thing that came that the that came 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.880 to mind and when I was reading that and keeps 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.800 coming back now, is is that regardless of what the 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:57.280 previous gods or goddesses were. Uh, there's always this seems 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.000 like there's this, Uh, there's this movement to repackage them 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:06.000 sometimes as lesser deities or is just outright demons. And 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.200 you have to ask yourself, well, is this always you know, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.520 to what extent gender is playing a role into this 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:16.000 transformation or is it a transformation that is in many 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.840 areas removed from gender concerns. Uh, you know the various 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.600 pagan gods that were reduced to demons in the advent 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.520 of Christianity, etcetera. Yeah, I mean, and you wonder about 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.920 the idea of if there are gender correlations with the 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.040 history of the understanding of snakes in uh in religion. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.040 Because Amelia brings up the Garden of Eden story and 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.160 one of the funny things about the Garden of Eden story, 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.640 do you know what never says the snake is Satan. Oh, yeah, 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.360 that's not in the story. It's just the snake. It's 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.120 just the snake comes to eve the woman and tempts 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.679 her with knowledge of good and evil. Yeah, I mean 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.920 I do know that, of course, that when you look 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.400 at the Bible Old and New Testament, that the devil 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.439 is kind of this character where it's it's almost like 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.680 somebody wrote a really confusing screenplay and someone said, God, 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.240 we have a number of these antagonists. Can we just 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.080 combine these into one character, because it's confusing to have 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.280 a snake and then there's this, uh, this satan character 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.320 that's like a court official, and then there's this idea 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.480 of a fallen angel and and and another devil. Just 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.000 let's make them all the same guy. I mean, it 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.840 really does make you wonder, though, if the snake is 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.240 in the Garden of Eden's story a sort of reflection 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.559 of an earlier story tradition where the snake is something 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.760 more like a Prometheus character, a character that brings knowledge 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.959 to the humans, and that that character is transformed into 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.040 a villain in later versions of the story. Now she 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.160 also mentioned Medusa here. I would love to do some 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.360 sort of a deeper dive on Medusa in the future, 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.840 because I'm one hand always one of my favorite monsters. 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.160 But it wasn't until I was really an adult that 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:58.000 I began to notice just this trend in art and 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.480 and you know, particularly with statues. There's one statue in particular, 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.200 I don't remember the sculpture's name, but you find it 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:09.040 at at the met in New York City where our 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:13.520 hero is holding the decapitated head of Medusa aloft uh. 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.400 And there are various paintings where where he's in the 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.280 act of swaying or and there's like a really kind 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:22.800 of icky, violent vibe to those images, you know, the 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:28.160 murder of this uh, this this feminine monster, this monster 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:32.920 is female. Well this this attack on this primordially ugly woman. Yeah, yeah, 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.120 it it doesn't sit well with me. I like the 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.840 scenes where Medusa is dishing out death a lot more well. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.959 As beautiful as mythology can be, it's also something we 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.960 should keep in mind. I mean, cultural values are encoded 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.559 in myths, and a lot of cultures have had lots 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.200 of strains of deep, powerful misogyny running through them, and 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.560 that's there in a lot of the myths too. Now 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:56.160 I do want to point out one more tippet from 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.000 the alphabet. In the Goddess episode, i'm a I referenced 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:04.599 a a particular paper by Laura Slatkin titled the the 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.240 the Rate. It was the rage or the Wrath of Thetis. Uh. 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.440 She had totally has a book that came out years 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.440 and years ago titled The Power of Thetis and selected Essays. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.559 If anyone is interested to read more of her writings. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.960 All right, well, what else do we have? Karney? All right, well, 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.360 this next one is also about the alphabet and the goddess. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.720 And this is from our listener hend And so she writes, Hi, 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.600 Robert and Joe, I was listening to the second part 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:32.559 of the Goddess versus Alphabet episode, and the Sparta Athens 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.160 comparison struck me. Is either too good to be true 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.080 or contrived. Now what we actually asked about that, We 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.480 were like, I wonder to what extent sh Lane is 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.160 cherry picking his argument here? And we asked for, you know, 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.400 if you're a classic scholar out there, if you're or 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.280 an ancient Greek historian, uh, you know, how does his 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.280 argument strike you? And basically his argument was that Spartan 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.040 society placed far, far less emphasis on the written word, 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.720 and at the same time was more friendly to women's 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.120 rights and women's empowerment than Athenian society was. And Athenian 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:07.280 society was highly litigious, highly literate, highly written word oriented. Yea, 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:09.400 it was an interesting argument, but I think at the 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.320 same time we were we were both a little cautious 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.720 with it at the time. Uh So this is what 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.240 Hind is getting back to us with. So Hind says, 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.920 first of all, uh, I don't think there's much validity 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.360 to the left brain right brain argument, besides interesting oddities 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.840 to do with split brain patients. Have you guys done 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.760 an episode on that. I emailed one of my former professors, 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.040 who is a professor of classics about this, and this 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.199 is what he said, quote. I'm always a little wary 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.440 about big left slash right brain arguments, since I doubt 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.400 the brain functions so simplistically. But what do I know 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.760 As for Spartan illiteracy, I think that is not so established. 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.160 It is true that women had a lot more power 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.080 over some things in Sparta, but I don't think the 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.719 larger argument stands up, since I don't think it as 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.400 much to do with literacy. Most of the Spartan and 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:59.040 Athenian institutions regarding women were set during a time when 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.760 both were mostly oral cultures. And then she provides a 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.920 link to an article which I must say, I haven't 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:06.679 had time to read yet, but I would like to 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.800 look into. Uh So I appreciate that bit of feedback. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:11.959 That's an interesting point. So this could be a way 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.880 that Slain might not only be cherry picking, but might 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:20.040 be like acknowledging differences that are sort of irrelevant because 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.840 the practices he's pointing to were established before the written 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.280 word was important in either culture. That's a good point. Now, 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.360 to come back to the left brain right brain thing, 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.560 I think that that's something that's something that's important to 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:37.040 strike a good balance on because you can absolutely go 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.000 overboard with the left brain right brain kind of thing. 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.120 At the same time, I think hemispheric lateralization is an 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.440 important feature of the human brain. Now there, I think 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:48.600 there are a lot of arguments, especially in the later 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:53.480 twentieth century, that that overinterpreted the influence of of the 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.720 left brain right brain division. But the left brain right 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.840 brain division is a real thing, and it does have consequences. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.200 You just don't want to be overly general, overly simplistic 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.760 about the power of it and explaining behavior. Yeah, and 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.280 I mean similar things go for a lot of the 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.520 research that has gone into the inner workings of the brain, 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.960 for instance, going from the idea that there is, say 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.400 a pleasure center or a pain center of the brain, 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.160 to a more nuanced understanding that well, it's not a 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.640 center so much as a network. Yeah, neuroscience is one 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:31.600 of those things that's just not very friendly to amateur interpretation, 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.720 and it's something neither of us are neuroscientists, so we 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.240 have to do our best to just sort through the 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.400 science and what people have written about it and try 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.920 to make sense of it. But you know, neuroscience is 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.280 one of those things where it's almost never as simple 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.680 as that headline you read. It's true, I get to 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:51.120 kick out of a juicy neuroscience clickbait headline almost as 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.840 as much as the black hole headlines. You always see 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.600 something that's like, you know, brains God worship center activates 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:01.240 when you view pizza or something. You know, you see 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.440 those kind of studies and it's like that that can 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.400 sort of conveys something that's kind of true, but it's 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.440 not going to be really that simple. So anyway, hind, 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.400 I think those are very good concerns to raise. All right, 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.880 here's another one. This one comes to us from Matia, 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:20.440 and this one concerns are I believe our our Phartonomicon episode. Hi, 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.680 Robert and Joe, first time email writer, here, a long 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.160 time listener. In your most recent mail bag episode, it 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:28.800 would have been I guess the one before this you 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:33.160 talked about Pathagoras and his comments on fava beans. I 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.240 never thought beans, that's right, because that was basically his 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.120 whole deal, as he hated beans and said he should 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.640 not eat them. It's not his whole deal, not his 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.480 whole deal obviously, but it was it seemed to be 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:49.040 of some importance to Yeah, um, he said, As she continues, 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.400 I never thought about the connection between the Greek numa 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.040 and flatulence. It makes a lot of sense and adds 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.680 a lot to pathagoras maniacal sect. Now, just to refresh, sorry, 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.479 the idea of the connection between the numa and flatulence 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.760 is that numa usually means breath. It's also funny enough 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.320 the word for like spirit or ghosts, So you have 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.199 like the Holy Spirit being a numa, and then you 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.440 could breathe out a numa, but then also what would 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.240 be another kind of numa? Well, but the factors is 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.359 arguing here that you could essentially fart out your own soul. Yeah, okay, 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.919 that that's the basic ideas I interpreted, She continues. However, 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:30.720 there is a more widespread explanation for pythagoras take on 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:36.000 fava beans. A common mutation among Mediterranean people is G 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.000 six p D deficiency, which causes severe anemia upon exposure 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:45.880 to certain compounds, including antimalarial drugs, the antibiotic bactrum, and 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:50.160 guess what, fava beans. The condition is commonly known as 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.920 father is um because of this effect. Ever, the flamboyant 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.840 to explainer path Agoras observed this condition and prohibited his 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.919 followers from eating these beans, which were said to contain 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.920 the soul of the dead. Keep up the great work. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.040 There is no podcast like yours. The Soul of the 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.919 Dead in beans. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't make it 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:14.159 to that part. So well, thank you. My son is 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.520 distrustful of beans, that really. Yeah, and uh, and maybe 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.160 that's why he knows deep down that they may contain 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.879 the souls of the dead. Have they wronged him? No? 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.879 He just they betrayed him. He just sometimes it's hard 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:27.600 to get him excited about beans. I don't know why. 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.720 I fort for a kid who has has sworn off 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.840 most meats, it would benefit him tremendously to be just 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.920 all in on beans. But it's been an uphill battle. 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.080 You know. You say he's into shellfish though, right, Oh, yes, 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.359 she shellfish and beans don't really go together. It's true, 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.879 maybe that said he deep down he knows that his 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.320 favorite his favorite foods don't really work that well with that. 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:52.800 But you know, on the other hand, I have had 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.760 some wonderful like shrimp dishes that I think incorporate some 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.720 forms of beans. Oh yeah, I guess guess now that 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.400 I think about it. I mean not kidney beans obviously, 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.439 but not fava beans. We all know that fava beans 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.040 go best with human liver in kianti. But but but, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.080 you know, hilarity aside. This is an interesting argument, the 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.080 idea that there could be something else at play here 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:20.600 besides just mere superstition and far diversion. Right. Hey, speaking 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.240 of goddesses, we've got an email from Athena at least 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.600 that's her name is from Athena on on piss Myers. 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.840 You remember crazy ants and when we we discovered the 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.359 meaning of piss Myers. Uh so, yeah, Athena writes, Hi, 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:36.240 I've been listening to your show for a little while 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.280 and I enjoy it. I was listening to your show 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.000 on crazy ants, and it's a topic very familiar having 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.240 grown up in Texas. When you mentioned piss myers, I 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.240 had to write in. My mother used that term to 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.760 describe a specific ant that was around our home in 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:54.199 South Texas, Victoria. They indeed smelled like their name suggests. 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:58.240 A single aunt didn't smell, but the aunt hill sure did. 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.600 On a side note, if I my siblings were misbehaving, 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.680 she would call us pissmire's. Well that's well, that's great. 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.119 We have to hear a little, little, little little field 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:10.119 wisdom on the pissmer's here. Now, I wonder if the 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.080 ant doesn't smell like the name suggests, but the ant 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.320 mound does. Why is that? Is it just because a 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.840 single ant doesn't put off enough for us to detect, 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:20.920 and you've got to have a lot of them in 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.239 a close proximity, or is it because I don't know, 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.040 if something else, something else in the mound. Do they 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.720 secrete stuff? In the mound. Yeah, I guess it without 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:35.560 actually looking into it. My my, my, my guests would 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.359 be the former that it's just the fact that you 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.280 have so many ants in one area at a time 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.520 that it's going to you know, create a strong or 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.760 a roma because these are not like leaf cutter ants 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:50.760 or not cultivating anything in there. So anyway, I admire 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.120 the harshness of your mother, by the way, I think 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:55.480 it's good. I mean, normally you just call your kid, 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:57.399 you say you're being a brad or you're being a 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.840 baby or something. But now you're saying like you're being 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:04.840 you social insect that produces urine like smells, Well that 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.760 that's kind of like children, except that you show you 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.480 social part. They do produce produce the smell of urine 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.119 sometimes and that can't be helped. Maybe we should take 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:15.919 a break. Are you ready? Let's do it? All right, 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.600 we'll be right back. Thank you. All right, we're back. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.400 We're still on the bottom of the ocean. We're still 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.320 trapped in the submarine with Carney, and he is dishing 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:29.120 out some listener mail for us to read. So are 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:31.920 you ready for this epic email we got from jess Er. 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.520 Let's have it. Yeah, Now, Jesser is a pseudonym, and 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.960