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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello,

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Speaker 1: whip smarties, do we have a smart one for you today?

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Speaker 1: On this episode of Work in Progress, I am sitting

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Speaker 1: down with a Pulitzer Prize winning writer, editor, and TV host.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest is none other than Jonathan k Part, who

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Speaker 1: is here to recount powerful stories, certainly from his career,

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Speaker 1: but also from his brand new book. The book is

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Speaker 1: called Yet Here I Am Lessons from a Black Man's

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Speaker 1: Search for Home, and it is the most magnificent grouping

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Speaker 1: of tales from his life about embracing identities, picking battles,

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Speaker 1: seizing opportunity, and finding his voice. And he manages to

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Speaker 1: do something which he must only be possible because of

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Speaker 1: what an exceptional journalist he is, which is tell the

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Speaker 1: most unique and raw and personal story and somehow set

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Speaker 1: his milestones against not only his personal history, but our

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Speaker 1: history is a country. And in the most beautiful way,

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Speaker 1: I came to admire Jonathan even more, and I came

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Speaker 1: to feel even more passionate about this experiment we're in here, guys,

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Speaker 1: the American experiment, our great democracy. From really profound musings

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Speaker 1: on what it was like to shuttle back and forth

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Speaker 1: between New Jersey and rural North Carolina, to contemplating the

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Speaker 1: complexities of race and identity and queerness as they all

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Speaker 1: shifted around him. Jonathan really brings us into his lessons

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Speaker 1: on learning to bridge two worlds and finding his place.

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Speaker 1: There are hilarious stories about how he's got his first

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Speaker 1: internship with The Today Show and incredibly heartwarming tales about

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Speaker 1: his love for his family and his journey to his

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Speaker 1: own self discovery. Let's sit down with Jonathan K.

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Speaker 2: Part.

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Speaker 1: I get to sit across from so many fascinating people

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Speaker 1: like yourself, and I think about the long list of

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Speaker 1: resume items, accolades, accomplishments for you a Pulitzer Prize. I

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Speaker 1: like to rewind because people know you and they know

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Speaker 1: what you do. But I'm curious about and it really

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Speaker 1: does feel relevant for your book, I suppose. Especially I'm

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Speaker 1: curious about your childhood, and more so, if you and

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Speaker 1: I got to go back in time together right now

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Speaker 1: and hang out with you at eight or nine years old,

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Speaker 1: would you recognize so many things about the man you

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Speaker 1: are today and that little boy?

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Speaker 2: Huh. That's a great question.

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Speaker 3: I think I would, Sophia, simply because you know when

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Speaker 3: you're a little kid, You're naive about the world in

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Speaker 3: a lot of ways. You see things in black and

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Speaker 3: white because that's what you're taught. You know, this is good,

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Speaker 3: this is bad, this is right, this is wrong. And

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Speaker 3: so I think I took that sort of learning and

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Speaker 3: teaching and upbringing and brought it to my job, which

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Speaker 3: is a journalist, yeah, and an opinion journalist. At that

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Speaker 3: where we are, it is our job to not just report,

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Speaker 3: but then to say.

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Speaker 2: What's right, what's wrong, what's good, what's bad, who's good,

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Speaker 2: who's bad?

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Speaker 3: And so I think younger me would recognize present day, older,

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Speaker 3: older me. But I think what younger me would find

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Speaker 3: fascinating is how I took younger me's dream and turned

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Speaker 3: it into reality, knowing, knowing full well that younger me

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Speaker 3: had these dreams but no roadmap at all for how

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Speaker 3: to reach them right.

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Speaker 1: Well, and being a young boy who grew up in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, you know, shout out to the fam. You

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Speaker 1: write in your books so beautifully about these summers that

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Speaker 1: you would go and spend with your grandmother. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell our friends at home a little bit about that,

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Speaker 1: about how your life prior to you, knowing how you

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Speaker 1: were going to make your dreams come true. How your

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Speaker 1: life sort of existed between two spaces.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, during the school year, I you know,

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Speaker 3: lived in New Jersey, first in Newark, New Jersey, where

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Speaker 3: I was born, and then North Plainfield and then has Let,

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Speaker 3: New Jersey shout out Mommouth County. But then in the

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Speaker 3: summers until I was twelve, I spent them in North Carolina,

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Speaker 3: in rural eastern North Carolina with my maternal grandparents. And

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Speaker 3: in the north I went to Catholic school, particularly the

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Speaker 3: first through fourth grade, and then in those summers with

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Speaker 3: my grandmother, I would go out witnessing with my grandmother.

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Speaker 3: My grandmother was a Jehovah's witness, so you know, still

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Speaker 3: a sect of Christianity, but way different than the Catholic

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Speaker 3: school at Saint Rose of Lima. So spending those summers

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Speaker 3: in North Carolina, you know, in hindsight, you know, with

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Speaker 3: the eyes of a fifty something year old man, I

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Speaker 3: now realize we're foundational to how I view, how I

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Speaker 3: view the world, how I view raised, how I view

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Speaker 3: to a certain extent religion.

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Speaker 2: Typically by being in.

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Speaker 3: You know, a Jim Crow relic of a small town,

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Speaker 3: just by going witnessing with my grandmother to houses of

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Speaker 3: almost always African Americans, and then not realizing until I

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Speaker 3: was writing the book, well, why was that? Well, because

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Speaker 3: Grandma was witnessing basically in the backyard of the Nat

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Speaker 3: Turner Rebellion that you know, sent shock waves in fear

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Speaker 3: through white people, not just in that area where Grandma was,

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Speaker 3: but across the country. The ripple efex of that, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're still dealing with today. So that's the sort of

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Speaker 3: split existence that you were referring to, and what my

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Speaker 3: early childhood childhood summers were like.

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Speaker 1: It gave me such perspective on you and your life,

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Speaker 1: and reading about those really formative years for you also

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Speaker 1: made me very self reflective, because I remember at twenty

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Speaker 1: one moving to Wilmington, North Carolina, and really wanting to

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Speaker 1: get to know the area and driving around and being

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Speaker 1: so taken aback as I got further and further out

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Speaker 1: from city centers and into more rural parts of North

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Speaker 1: Carolina in two thousand and three, because I grew up

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Speaker 1: in the heart of Los Angeles in a very diverse community,

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Speaker 1: and my dad is an immigrant, and my mother's mother

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Speaker 1: was an immigrant, and my mom's whole family, as we've

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Speaker 1: you know, bonded over a little all from around New

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Speaker 1: Jersey and New York. You know, Newark is incredibly diverse,

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Speaker 1: and New York is incredibly diverse. And I got to

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Speaker 1: a place in our country where I realized for the

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Speaker 1: first time that a lot of the history I'd studied

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Speaker 1: was still immediately evident in my present geography. And I

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Speaker 1: just hadn't experienced that in these big metropolitan city centers.

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Speaker 1: And it is quite surreal knowing what I immediately understood

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Speaker 1: about America then, and then reading you talk about being

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Speaker 1: in these communities, understanding the dignity people deserved, learning about humility,

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Speaker 1: and also you write about the fact they you're the

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Speaker 1: first in your generation to never have worked picking cotton.

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Speaker 1: Our history, I mean, it's it's right here, and it's

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Speaker 1: still present, and it I just think you've done this

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Speaker 1: gorgeous job reminding people of that through your story. Were

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Speaker 1: those conversations you were having with your family or that

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Speaker 1: at that time, or did some of those heavier historical

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Speaker 1: to present day topics wait until you were a little older.

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Speaker 3: Those heavy topics waited until I was writing to this book.

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Speaker 3: It's not we weren't discussing these things, you know, during

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Speaker 3: those summers, or even as I got older, it was.

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Speaker 2: More when I was writing.

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Speaker 3: When I was when I was writing what originally it

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Speaker 3: was called the Down South Chapter, I was remember how

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Speaker 3: after my grandmother's funeral, we were all in the you know,

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Speaker 3: the funeral limousines, riding back from the Kingdom Hall service

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Speaker 3: to the Baptist Church graveyard where the family is buried.

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Speaker 3: And as we drove on these country roads, listening to

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Speaker 3: my aunt, my mom and my aunts and uncles who

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Speaker 3: were in the car reminisce about picking cotton in the

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Speaker 3: particular field, in a particular field, or just fields in general,

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Speaker 3: and talking about how you know, oh you remember, you know,

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Speaker 3: how you know we had to get up so early

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Speaker 3: in the morning and we picked cotton, and you know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes we would add water to the bag and to

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Speaker 3: make it heavier because we got paid more of that way.

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Speaker 3: Or how they were able to keep the young guest

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Speaker 3: of the of the siblings on Annie and Uncle Lynnwood,

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Speaker 3: how they were able to from time to time keep

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Speaker 3: them from having to go out into the.

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Speaker 2: Fields to work.

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Speaker 3: And as I write in the book, and as you

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Speaker 3: point out, you know, it wasn't until I was writing that,

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Speaker 3: I realized that my cousin Rita and I were the

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Speaker 3: first generation in our family that didn't have to do that.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have to when we went down for the summer.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have to go into the field and pick

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Speaker 3: cotton or tobacco or soybeans for money. We did go

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Speaker 3: into the fields and pick butter beans and so and

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Speaker 3: and things like that, but that was for food. You know,

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Speaker 3: we go and pick and then sit and snap peas

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Speaker 3: and stuff like that, but that was just you know,

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Speaker 3: for food. That what our relatives did was for was

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Speaker 3: money for the family. And you know, you put your

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Speaker 3: finger on it, and when you went to Wilmington, North Carolina,

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Speaker 3: that the stuff that you had read.

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Speaker 2: About was just so immediate.

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Speaker 3: And I keep trying to remind people, and that's why

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Speaker 3: I put that line in there about generation, because history

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Speaker 3: isn't history for a lot of people, it's lived experience, yes,

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Speaker 3: within their memory of having experience these things. And so

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Speaker 3: you know it, you know, it's the reporter in me

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Speaker 3: that wanted to not just tell my story but ground

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Speaker 3: it and root it into you know, you've read about this, well, hey,

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Speaker 3: let me tell you right here, this is how my

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Speaker 3: story fits into that larger story.

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Speaker 1: Well, and what you've hoped to do is contextualize and

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Speaker 1: personalize it. You know, when when people try to distance

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Speaker 1: us from history, something that feels really important for me

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Speaker 1: to point out out, especially in the backdrop of us

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Speaker 1: now seeing you know, the National Guard deployed to my

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Speaker 1: home city and gross violation of the constitution. I may

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Speaker 1: say when I think about the last time a president

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Speaker 1: how to deploy the National Guard to protect black students

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Speaker 1: being integrated into schools. I have to remind people who

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Speaker 1: ask me why I care about this stuff so much.

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Speaker 1: Ruby Bridgers is younger than my mother, right, you know

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Speaker 1: that could be my mother. She is someone's mother. It's

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Speaker 1: not this happened oh, hundreds of years ago, and we

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Speaker 1: get to pretend it's in a chapter of a book.

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Speaker 1: It's directly in our rear view mirror. This is our lifetime.

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Speaker 1: This is people's lived experience and something I appreciate so

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Speaker 1: much as a journalism nerd who as you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to tell the people at home when that when

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Speaker 1: I first met I was deeply uncool. I totally geeked

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Speaker 1: out on you, and you were so sweet, and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't get over the fact that you offered to exchange

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Speaker 1: information with me.

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Speaker 2: I was like, what do I do?

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Speaker 1: And then I remember weeks later, our friend who introduced

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Speaker 1: us said, have you texted him yet? And I go,

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Speaker 1: what am I going to text Jonathan K Parton? She goes,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, hi, And so I just have to say, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's so lovely to have you on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and we've obviously spent more time together since and hopefully

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Speaker 1: I'm less weird. But as a as a person who

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Speaker 1: believes so emotionally, really in the sanctity and importance of journalism,

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Speaker 1: your book manages to be such a beautiful memoir. But

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Speaker 1: you you tell your personal story in a way that

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Speaker 1: makes all of our history feel so close, and it's

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Speaker 1: a really important reminder and you've just done something gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: So thank you for all of it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Sophia for that.

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Speaker 3: You know, when I sat down, it was in twenty

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Speaker 3: seventeen that I sat down to write the first words

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Speaker 3: that have now become this book. And I did it

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Speaker 3: as a way of escaping for a little bit. Trump won,

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Speaker 3: just for a few days, you know, I just decided

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Speaker 3: I had these stories in my head from summers down

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Speaker 3: South that had been rumbling up there for years, and

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Speaker 3: I thought, okay, days a day, I'm going to sit

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Speaker 3: down now, I'm just going to write the stories.

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Speaker 2: And I did it over a long weekend.

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Speaker 1: Where did you start?

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Speaker 2: I started with.

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Speaker 3: I think probably it started with going witnessing with Grandma,

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Speaker 3: just starting to you know, write that down, what that

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Speaker 3: was like. And you know, for me, it was telling.

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Speaker 3: It was just getting those stories out. And I wasn't

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Speaker 3: sure if there was a book there or anything.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to get these stories out.

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Speaker 3: And I sent them to some really good friends and

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Speaker 3: I sent them to specifically to Jory Reid, April Ryan,

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Speaker 3: and Tamperin Hall and I'm just like, hey, here, would

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Speaker 3: you mind reading this? Tell me what you think? And

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Speaker 3: they all wrote back, keep going, And April Ryan not

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Speaker 3: only said keep going, but she said you've got to

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Speaker 3: tell your story. There is a book here, keep going,

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Speaker 3: keep writing. And so I, you know, it took a

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Speaker 3: long time, but I kept I kept writing, and as

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Speaker 3: I wrote, as I was writing my story again, the

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Speaker 3: reporter brain kicked in to say, hey, you were born

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Speaker 3: in July nineteen sixty seven. Whoa the sixty four Civil

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Speaker 3: Rights Act was enacted exactly.

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Speaker 2: Three years before you, three years before you were born.

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Speaker 3: Sixty five Voting Rights ACKed was was voted. Johnson signed

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Speaker 3: it less than two years before you were born. And

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Speaker 3: so you were born into this quote unquote, not post

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Speaker 3: civil rights America, but in America where I and my

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Speaker 3: cousin first generation that didn't have to pick cotton. But

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Speaker 3: I was also part of the the the generation, first

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Speaker 3: generation of black kids to live.

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Speaker 2: In a country where the words of the Constitution.

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Speaker 3: Applied to all of us equally, and that what that meant.

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Speaker 3: So when I'm writing about, you know, being the only

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Speaker 3: black kid in predominantly white schools or one of a few,

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Speaker 3: or you know, as I go through my.

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Speaker 2: Career, of course you gotta.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to ground it in Hey, as I'm living

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Speaker 3: this life, watching The Brady Bunch and the Today Show,

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Speaker 3: this was also happening in the background, so that it

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Speaker 3: informs you why I'm thinking this way and writing this way.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I do think and I'm glad. I'm

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Speaker 3: glad you're validating my approach, Sophia, because there were points

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Speaker 3: when I thought, oh, I'm getting too heavy into the

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Speaker 3: history I'm getting too heavy in the news, and instead,

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Speaker 3: I think by doing that, I've made not only made

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Speaker 3: my story accessible just in terms of me, but also

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Speaker 3: places it in ways that people think, oh, oh, now

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Speaker 3: I understand that makes sense, that makes more sense.

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Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors who make the

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Speaker 1: show possible. I think about how frustrating it can be

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Speaker 1: for me as a woman to always have to remind

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Speaker 1: people of what women are up against. For me, as

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Speaker 1: a queer person, you know, to have whether it was

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Speaker 1: in allyship for so long or in full identity, talk

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Speaker 1: about no, you do treat queer people differently in this country,

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Speaker 1: And I think about that for you. You know, you, as

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Speaker 1: a black man who was born in nineteen sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: who has seen this family history, who has seen America's history,

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Speaker 1: who's watching this backsliding of democracy. You carry your people,

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Speaker 1: and I imagine sometimes you don't want to have to

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Speaker 1: always talk about what it's like to be a black man,

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Speaker 1: or what it's like to be a gay man. How

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Speaker 1: do you how do you figure out that balance? Because

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Speaker 1: you talk in the book about sometimes you get accused

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Speaker 1: of being too black, sometimes you get accused of being

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Speaker 1: out black enough. It's like, if you're not the rich

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Speaker 1: white guy, you're either something or nothing all the time.

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Speaker 1: And I'm really curious about how that experience is something

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Speaker 1: you have navigated for yourself as a public figure who

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Speaker 1: belongs to multiple, you know, marginalized groups.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think it goes back to from

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Speaker 3: you know, my earliest memories of you know, I write

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Speaker 3: in the book how I viewed myself as as a

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Speaker 3: result of that history I just talked about, I viewed

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Speaker 3: myself as an ambassador to the race. And so given

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Speaker 3: the time that we were in. Also, I was the

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Speaker 3: only child of a widow, and so when you're an

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Speaker 3: only child, all you're doing, especially at that age, is

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Speaker 3: trying to make friends. You're doing everything you can to

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Speaker 3: make friends. And so you put all that together and

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Speaker 3: I have this ambassadorial hat. So I take on this

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Speaker 3: this weight.

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Speaker 2: Willingly.

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Speaker 3: Almost everyone else it's thrust upon them, this weight of

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Speaker 3: being the only representing and a lot of people resent it,

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Speaker 3: and I totally get it. But for me, it was

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Speaker 3: I'm the ambassador. So let's go, let's go make friends,

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Speaker 3: Let's try to make these bonds of understanding. Let me

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Speaker 3: show them since I'm probably the only live black person

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Speaker 3: they have ever met.

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Speaker 2: Let's try to dispel some myths, let them get to

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Speaker 2: know me.

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Speaker 3: And you know, and that's mostly in the in the

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Speaker 3: black realm, In the gay realm, it's a completely it's

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Speaker 3: a different thing. But you know, it was a it

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Speaker 3: was a job that I took on willingly. And I understand,

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Speaker 3: you know, people viewing it as a weight. I certainly

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Speaker 3: view it as a weight, maybe even a burden. But

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Speaker 3: again it was one that I took on willingly. As

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Speaker 3: I write in the book, though it took me too

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Speaker 3: long to understand and to appreciate and realize that not

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Speaker 3: everybody is as into my ambassador role.

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Speaker 2: As I am.

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Speaker 3: And that was a tough That was a tough thing

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Speaker 3: for me to contend with, and I had to contend

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Speaker 3: with it while writing the book because what I wanted

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Speaker 3: above all else, you know, in addition to telling my story,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be honest. I wanted to be introspective.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be raw and vulnerable and revealing. And

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Speaker 3: so when I write about how I learned how to

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Speaker 3: be black in white spaces where I learned that you

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Speaker 3: could be I could be too black, not black enough,

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Speaker 3: or in some instances, folks didn't want me to be

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Speaker 3: black at all. The same thing can be said, you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, being gay, there there were folks are like,

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Speaker 3: you're too gay, you're not gay enough.

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Speaker 2: Well do you have to talk about it?

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Speaker 3: And in this job, you know, I've been on an

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Speaker 3: editorial board nine years at the New York Daily News,

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Speaker 3: fifteen at the Washington Post.

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Speaker 2: That's a quarter century. And when you are an editorial writer.

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Speaker 3: You are, whether you want to acknowledge it or not,

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Speaker 3: you are an ambassador for whatever communities you belong to,

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Speaker 3: whether you want to acknowledge them or not. When you

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Speaker 3: come to the table, because we're discussing all sorts of issues,

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Speaker 3: and when you are the only black person at the table,

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Speaker 3: or you're the only queer person at the table, or

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Speaker 3: you're the only black queer person at the table, whether

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Speaker 3: you want to or not, some situation is going to

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Speaker 3: happen where you are going to have to say, my

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Speaker 3: lived experience says this. And I don't care what white

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Speaker 3: paper you've read, what studies you've read, what the reporting says.

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Speaker 3: I can tell you from my reporting, plus my own,

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Speaker 3: my lived experience, this is the way this is going

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Speaker 3: to be viewed or how it is viewed or how

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Speaker 3: it was viewed.

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Speaker 2: And so that's that is an ambassadorial role.

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Speaker 3: That is one that you know, whether I wanted to

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Speaker 3: or not, And as I've said multiple times, I did.

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Speaker 2: That was part of the job. That weight, that burden

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Speaker 2: was part of the job.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, in this job, it's also and

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Speaker 3: I recognize and incredible privilege to be able to sit

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Speaker 3: at those tables and not be the voice of Black

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Speaker 3: America or the voice of Queer America, but to be

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Speaker 3: the voice of each community at the at that particular table.

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Speaker 1: You talk about how you knew so young that you

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Speaker 1: wanted to do this, you know, being being at a

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Speaker 1: at a family member's retirement party. Uh, and saying I

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Speaker 1: want to be a journalist. Where did that come from?

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Speaker 1: And can you tell the folks at home a little

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Speaker 1: bit about that story about how you got your first internship.

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Speaker 3: So so I was the family tattle tale. I told everybody.

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Speaker 3: I told everybody's business. There was nothing I If I

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Speaker 3: heard something, I would repeat it. And you know, and

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Speaker 3: I write in the book about how I, you know,

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Speaker 3: in incredible fashion, repeated something not even repeated, delivered some

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Speaker 3: news that was not welcome. And so fast forward, my

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Speaker 3: uncle McKinley Branch, who worked at NBC as an electrician

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Speaker 3: at thirty Rock, said to me, you know I'm going

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Speaker 3: to work.

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Speaker 2: You should turn on the Today Show.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to try to get in front of the

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Speaker 3: camera because they're doing work on the plaza and I'm

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Speaker 3: going to try to wave. So I turn on the

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Speaker 3: Today Show. I'm watching looking for Uncle McKinley. Instead, I'm

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Speaker 3: watching this show where these people told other people's business.

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Speaker 3: That was the job. And so I was fascinated by

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Speaker 3: this job. And the more I watched, the more I

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Speaker 3: got into what these people were doing, what they were reporting,

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Speaker 3: where they were reporting from. And so I was, you know,

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Speaker 3: a huge nerd. I had maps all over my walls

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Speaker 3: at home, and so when I watched the news, I

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Speaker 3: would spin around and look on my map of the United.

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Speaker 2: States or my map the world or.

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Speaker 3: Particular country is to see where the action was happening.

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Speaker 3: So I was a total complete news nerd. I had

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Speaker 3: my interview, my college interview for Carlton. They did them,

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Speaker 3: did some in New York at the Hilton, and when

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Speaker 3: it was over, I called my uncle McKinley at thirty

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Speaker 3: Rock and said, hey, I'm just up the street. Can

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Speaker 3: I come visit? He says, great, So I go visit.

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Speaker 3: He says, you're just in time. I have work to

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Speaker 3: do in the nightly news office again news nerd. I'm thinking,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to meet the greats. I'm gonna be Brokaw,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to meet Chancellor. I'm going to meet utterly

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Speaker 3: all these people. Then get there and there's no one around,

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Speaker 3: absolutely no one around except this one woman sitting out.

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Speaker 3: And I worked up the car. My uncle had me

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Speaker 3: sit on this sofa facing this you know woman while

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Speaker 3: he did the work in the office. And I worked

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Speaker 3: up the courage to talk to her. And she told

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Speaker 3: me her name is and Scanfualitarian and she was she

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Speaker 3: worked on nightly. And you see a little kid sitting

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Speaker 3: in front of you. You ask, well, what do you

415
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Speaker 3: want to be when you grow up? And I said, well,

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Speaker 3: I want to be Moscow correspondent for NBC News. And

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Speaker 3: then after that, I'm trying to decide whether I want

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Speaker 3: to be White House correspondent or go to the London Bureau.

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Speaker 3: If I go to the London Bureau, then I definitely

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Speaker 3: want to then go to the White House, and then

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Speaker 3: after that, I want to come to New York and

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Speaker 3: be anchor of the Today Show, and I don't.

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Speaker 2: I can only imagine the look on my.

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Speaker 3: Face if I had heard that. But my uncle comes

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Speaker 3: back and he says, Okay, it's time to go. I

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Speaker 3: thanked her for answering my questions, and then she said

427
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Speaker 3: to me, wait a minute, and then she opened the drawer,

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00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: pulled out an NBC notepad, wrote down the name Kay Bradley,

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Speaker 3: her phone number, and then with a flourish rips off

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Speaker 3: the paper and says, here, get yourself an internship on

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Speaker 3: the Today Show.

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Speaker 2: That moment is.

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Speaker 3: Like step number two or number three in the journey

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Speaker 3: that leads us to talking right now.

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Speaker 2: That started my career.

436
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so incredible. I just love it. I love

437
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: that you had a full life itinerary ready for her.

438
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: And she was like, damn, this kid actually knows what

439
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: he's talking about. We should probably hire him. It's so amazing.

440
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: The more I think about it, the more I realize,

441
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 3: and I talked to other people.

442
00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: That I was insane. Yeah, ninety nine nine.

443
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: Nine percent of the world does not have an idea

444
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 3: of what they want to do and how they want

445
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: to do it or where they want to do it.

446
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 3: And it took me a long time to understand that

447
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: that's not how the world works, and that's not how

448
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,239
Speaker 3: people work. So that's another thing that I had to

449
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 3: realize as I was writing this, being mindful and knowing

450
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 3: the fact that I was crazy.

451
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: I love it. You just knew, And now a word

452
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. A calling is different than a job.

453
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: And it's so clear that this has always been a

454
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: calling for you, and I would wager that it's part

455
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: of why your presence in journalism feels so powerful. I

456
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: think it's why you're so good at gathering people to listen,

457
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: because they can feel how much you care. Hm.

458
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting that you use the word calling

459
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: because I've started using that word, particularly after we, you know,

460
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 3: made our way through Trump won. You know, people started

461
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: coming up to me during the first Trump administration and

462
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 3: saying things to me that I had only heard said

463
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 3: to members of the military, and that was thank you

464
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: for your service. And the first time it happened, it

465
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: took my breath away because no, I'm not I'm just

466
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: a journalist. I'm not a member of the military. And

467
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 3: it just kept happening more and more, and then I

468
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: began to understand that, oh, I get what people mean.

469
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: You know, we're the only profession that is specifically protected

470
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: in the Constitution. Job is to inform the citizen read

471
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: so that they can uphold the democracy.

472
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: But the calling.

473
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 3: Aspect of it really came into shape for me as

474
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 3: I realize that to your point, this isn't a job.

475
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: I like doing what I'm doing because I like to

476
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 3: I like to talk to people. I like to highlight

477
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: their stories. I like to highlight, you know, specific people

478
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 3: or specific issues, shine a light on people or issues

479
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: where no light is being shown, and to just have

480
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: people know and understand. And I tell young people who ask,

481
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 3: you know, is this profession I should get into? I

482
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: say absolutely, but you have to feel it here. I

483
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 3: can't get into this profession if you're going is to

484
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: be famous or to be rich. That might be a byproduct,

485
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 3: but you know, don't.

486
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: Count on that.

487
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 3: You get into this profession because there are stories you

488
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 3: want to tell. Yes, people, you want to highlight communities,

489
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: you want to highlight issues. You want to highlight that

490
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 3: you truly care about and that you either have expertise

491
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 3: or you're gaining the expertise, and you want to use

492
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: use the skill that comes with journalism, use the platform

493
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 3: that comes with journalism to get your work out there.

494
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do it because it's what gets you out

495
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: of bed in the morning. You jump out, You fly out.

496
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 3: Of bed to go to a job that doesn't feel

497
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 3: like a job but pays you barely the minimum. And

498
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: when you leave the office, or when that story hits

499
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 3: online or in the paper or over the airwayes are

500
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,239
Speaker 3: on YouTube. However, people are getting getting their news and

501
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 3: it's out there that pride, that sense of accomplishment that

502
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 3: you get after doing something like that and then hearing

503
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 3: from people how they're reacting to your work. That's why

504
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 3: folks should be going into journalism. That's why it's a

505
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: that's why it's a calling.

506
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand that, you know, it's it's not technically

507
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: my profession. But studying journalism in college alongside theater and

508
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: falling down just the interest rabbit hole of political science,

509
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: I can see when I look back, Oh, I was

510
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: always destined to use the platform from my day job

511
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: for my calling to organize community. And you know it's

512
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: not lost on me that that was very hard for

513
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people in Trump won, people who you know,

514
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: do it for passion like me, or for passion and

515
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: career like you. A lot of people got very nervous

516
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: to continue speaking up. And it really strikes me in

517
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: this term too, watching the president of the United States

518
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: go after a free press, you know, watching watching Terry

519
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: Moran get fired from ABC for expressing his personal opinion

520
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: that someone in government is harming people who live in

521
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: this country, which I do not believe is incorrect. I believe,

522
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: I mean his opinion. Obviously, I believe what's happening is

523
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: incorrect and wildly awful. But how do you make sense

524
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: of that? And how do you stay brave?

525
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 2: I'm still that naive kid who believes in right and wrong,

526
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: good or bad too, And I happen.

527
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 3: To be in a position where and have a career

528
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 3: where my job is to you know, be able to

529
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 3: say what I think is right or wrong, good or bad.

530
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 3: And so that's what keeps me grounded, That's what keeps

531
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: me focused, you know, despite all the glitter bombs he's

532
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 3: throwing up in the air to distract us, and even

533
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 3: though those those glitter bombs are you know, can be

534
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 3: you know, rhetorically lethal in the sense that you know,

535
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 3: to distract us from the feud with Elon Musk. There

536
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 3: are National Guard troops in Los Angeles over the objections

537
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 3: of the governor.

538
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: But because of that naive day, I still can.

539
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 3: Keep my eye on the goal or or on what

540
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 3: the true what the true issue is. And so that's

541
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: how I'm able to just stay focused and stay clear

542
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 3: and stay clear headed.

543
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: I'm also, you know, I learned in Trump.

544
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 3: One to keep my imagination wide open, because if I

545
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 3: can imagine it, it could possibly happen, and so nothing.

546
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: I might be shocked by some things, but I most

547
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 3: definitely will not be surprised by most things. And you know,

548
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 3: when it comes to Tarry Moran, there's a distinction that

549
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 3: I think folks need to understand, and there's a Terry

550
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 3: Moran and I are both journalists, but we're in different

551
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: camps of journalism. I'm in the opinion camp. I can

552
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 3: say all the things he said in that tweet.

553
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: I could say them.

554
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 3: I might get in trouble, but not in the trouble

555
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 3: that he got in.

556
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: Terry, the other hand, is.

557
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: A straight news reporter, meaning his job is to go

558
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: in as he did interview the President of the United States,

559
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 3: not call balls and strikes, just here's the news, straight

560
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: up news. I remember my co host Eugene Daniels, he

561
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 3: showed me the tweet before we went on air, and

562
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 3: I remember reading and going, Oh my god, what's whoa

563
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 3: that is out there for Terry Moran, For a straight

564
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 3: news journalist to do that. Not that he wrote anything

565
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 3: that I thought was you know, I found objectionable in

566
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 3: terms of opinion, but where he got into trouble was

567
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 3: expressing his opinion about people. His job is to cover objectively.

568
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 3: So and during our show Eugene said, oh, looks like

569
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: he deleted the tweet. I understood why. Then he got suspended.

570
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 3: I understood why. And now that he you know, he's

571
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 3: been fired or separated again, I understand why from the

572
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 3: from the network's perspective. But I guarantee you we will

573
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 3: see Terry Moran back doing doing something in our profession

574
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: in some way, shape or form, because he is an

575
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 3: excellent journalist. Yeah, a superb journalist, and it's unfortunate that

576
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: it's unfortunate that he is at a minum right now,

577
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 3: not with us in the profession, but I would be

578
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 3: shocked if he if he's not back somewhere.

579
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:03,439
Speaker 1: Thank you for that perspective. Appreciate it. It's I think

580
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: as a you know, constituent, as a citizen who yes,

581
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: is a news nerd. But again, I don't I don't

582
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: get paid for doing any version of you know, my

583
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: own coverage. It's hard to watch something like that happen

584
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: to a journalist of that caliber. And then you know,

585
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: watch someone like a Tucker Carlson spend years lying to

586
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: his audience, spouting Kremlin propaganda and you know, calling the

587
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: union folks in the entertainment industry the elites while he

588
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: was making like what was it, forty six million a

589
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: year or something insane, Like, I've never known a person

590
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 1: who's made that in a lifetime. What are you talking about?

591
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: So it's that I doubt most of us have, you know,

592
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to feel like they're there is such

593
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: a high standard on the side that actually believes in

594
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: the constitution and in the democratic principles of the country

595
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: versus the side that claims they love the laws but

596
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: violate them every day. How is that something you navigate

597
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: as a journalist, because you know, you've got to be

598
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: out in these streets with folks from CNN to MSNBC

599
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: to Fox News. So like, how how do you try

600
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: to not only maintain your humanity in the way you

601
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: move through the world, but with that kind of naivete

602
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: if you will, do you really try to apply that

603
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 1: to others?

604
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 2: Like?

605
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: How do you do it? Because I I don't know

606
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: if I could be nice to everybody in your profession

607
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: if I was in your profession, you know what I mean?

608
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? Oh, I hear you on I hear you

609
00:41:59,760 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: on that.

610
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, No, It's not easy, But I will say

611
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 3: this again.

612
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: I view my job to be a truth teller.

613
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: My job is to whether I'm writing in a column

614
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 3: or I'm on my show on the weekend, my job

615
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 3: is to tell the truth. But my number one constituent

616
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 3: or constituency is my audience. The way the media has fractured,

617
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 3: now they're not just reading particular newspapers or magazines or

618
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 3: watching particular channels and television shows. Folks are gravitating to

619
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 3: specific individual journalists. And as a result, why are they

620
00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 3: going to these specific journalists because they trust them? And

621
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 3: for me, I know, and I've been at this for

622
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 3: thirty years, and so I built up. I would like

623
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 3: to think some credibility with my audience and coming to

624
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 3: terms with that and understanding that also means I have

625
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: to have a level of respect for my audience that

626
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 3: I think they have for me, which means respecting their intelligence. Yeah,

627
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 3: in addition to respecting their intelligence, giving them the rhetorical

628
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: and factual information and ammunition they need when talking to friends, colleagues,

629
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 3: relatives who might be on the other side of the

630
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 3: ideological divide, and you know they're not either telling the

631
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 3: truth or they're spouting things that they've heard from other

632
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 3: outlets which you know are not true.

633
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: Yes.

634
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: I tried one.

635
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 3: Time watching Fox News Channel. This was back in twenty sixteen,

636
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: and my husband said, you know, we should be We

637
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 3: really should be watching Fox from time to time just

638
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 3: to hear what they're saying and so and so. I

639
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 3: finally said, okay, fine, fine, fine, let's sit down, let's watch.

640
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 2: I don't even remember who it was.

641
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 3: I do remember how long I lasted, not even thirty minutes,

642
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 3: maybe even less. Why because each segment they did, Because

643
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: you know, it's a news show. I'm on top of

644
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,439
Speaker 3: the news. I've done my own reporting. I knew they

645
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 3: were lying. Ye I knew they were shading the truth.

646
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 3: How did everything every segment they did miraculously found its way.

647
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 2: Back to Hillary Clinton again? This is sixteen.

648
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: So I got so tired of yelling at the TV.

649
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: I just said to my husband.

650
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: I'm out of here.

651
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to be done.

652
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 2: I'm done.

653
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 3: I can't I can't do it. And what makes that

654
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 3: so troubling isn't so much that I couldn't take watching

655
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 3: Fox News. It's that Fox News is still then and

656
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 3: still today the number one cable channel in the country. Yeah,

657
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 3: by multiples. And so I'm sitting there as a person

658
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 3: who believes that two plus two equals four, knows that

659
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: two plus two equals four, and then having to walk

660
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 3: away from a channel where more than half the country

661
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 3: is watching, where they're being fed a daily diet at

662
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 3: night during the opinion shows, a daily diet of two

663
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 3: plus two equals five. And anyone who tells you that

664
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 3: it is four is a day to the nation. And

665
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 3: that is what's so what's so troubling about just one

666
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: piece of what's so troubling about where we are as

667
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 3: a country. But also, you know, my profession, the journalism

668
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 3: profession under enormous enormous pressure both from you know, culturally,

669
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 3: what I was just talking about a president who continues

670
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 3: to say that we are the enemy of the people,

671
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 3: while at the same time being in a profession that

672
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: has been going through it when it comes to technology, yes,

673
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 3: and trying to you know, losing audience and trying to

674
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 3: figure out how do we get the audience back, and

675
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 3: then trying to figure out, Okay, they're not going to

676
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 3: come back in the ways we want them to, how

677
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 3: do we reach how do we go where they're going? Yes,

678
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 3: So that put all of that together, and you've got

679
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 3: a profession that is un enormous, enormous strain.

680
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's scary as a you know, a citizen again,

681
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: just one of the concerned ones looking from the outside.

682
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: I love that you use the two plus two as

683
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: for analogy. It's one of my favorites.

684
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 3: You know.

685
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: It really relates for me to the fact that there

686
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 1: are no facts versus alternative facts. There are just facts.

687
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: Science is science. Two plus two does equal four. That

688
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 1: is settled, period, end of story. And I am very

689
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: grateful for those of you who care enough about the

690
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: nation to try to lead it. Honestly, I think about

691
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: how exposed you are when you are a public figure

692
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: like yourself. And one of the things that touched me

693
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: so much about the book is it it really feels

694
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: like you just decided to go oh there, like you

695
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: leaned all the way in knowing what it's like to

696
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: have your life looked at on this big, great stage.

697
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: How did you invite more of that in?

698
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 3: That was easy because back in nineteen ninety nine two thousand,

699
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 3: I read Catherine Graham's autobiography Personal History. At the time,

700
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 3: Kay Graham was the most powerful woman in journalism as

701
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 3: the publisher of The Washington Post. She was one of

702
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 3: the most powerful women in the country as a result

703
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 3: of that. And here comes this book that she wrote

704
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: where she is open, vulnerable, raw, honest about her insecurities,

705
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: about her fraught relationship with her mother, about her her

706
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 3: questioning whether she could hold her family together after her

707
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 3: husband died, whether she was good enough to lead the

708
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,720
Speaker 3: Washington Post. I thought, this is the This is amazing

709
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 3: that this powerful person would put themselves out there for

710
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 3: all of us to see, like really see. You could

711
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 3: understand her having a book out there half its size

712
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 3: and saying nothing. And yet she decided to tell her story.

713
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,879
Speaker 3: Fast forward twenty years and Charles Blow at the time

714
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 3: was a columnist for the New York Times writes his

715
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 3: memoir or Fire Shut Up in My Bones Again, Raw, honest, introspective,

716
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 3: and it helped me understand why there was so much

717
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 3: passion behind his columns for the New York Times. And

718
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 3: I thought those were such indelible, indelible books to me

719
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 3: that when I started writing, I thought, I have to

720
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 3: if I'm writing a book I have, and especially my

721
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 3: own story, I have to be as open and raw

722
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 3: and introspective and honest as they were. And so look,

723
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 3: anyone who has read my columns for the Daily News

724
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 3: going way back, or even the Washington Post, they are

725
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 3: used to me injecting myself into the columns as.

726
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 2: A way of bringing the reader along.

727
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: When Trayvon Martin was killed, for a lot of people,

728
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 3: it was an academic exercise. But then I wrote a

729
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 3: column that said, you know, when I was a kid,

730
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 3: my mother told me never to run in public, and

731
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 3: to never run with anything in my hands in public.

732
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 3: And you know, all the things that people then learned

733
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 3: was the so called the talk that black parents have

734
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 3: with their black kids.

735
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 2: And so for a lot of people. For a lot

736
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 2: of my.

737
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 3: White audience members who were reading me, it was their entree.

738
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 3: I was their entree, ambassador again, their entree into what

739
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 3: it means to be black.

740
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 2: I was their sir.

741
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 3: And so how could after writing like that for a

742
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 3: quarter century just about how could I not then do

743
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 3: that on steroids in the memoir? I have no regrets,

744
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 3: And in fact, what I love is hearing from all

745
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 3: sorts of people who read my story and see bits

746
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: of themselves, either of themselves in my story, in me

747
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 3: or my experiences.

748
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel that as a reader of this, and

749
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: so I get very excited for, you know, the rest

750
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: of the audience of this show and folks out in

751
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,240
Speaker 1: the world to get to read it too. And now

752
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: a word from our wonderful sponsors. I'm curious in specific

753
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: because these are the identities you get to speak to

754
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: us from. I know how touched I've felt by a

755
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: lot of it, and I wonder if a young queer

756
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 1: black reader picks up this book, what you most want

757
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: them to know or feel.

758
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 3: I would want them to know and feel that anything

759
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 3: is possible, and that by the time they get to

760
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 3: the end of the book that they will close it

761
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: and be more hopeful after having read it than they

762
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 3: first picked it up. Especially you've read the book so

763
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: you know how it closes. And then I close on

764
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 3: a what might seem like a weirdly hopeful note, but

765
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 3: I use again, I use history to ground that hope

766
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: in something. And it's so incredible that you asked the

767
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,439
Speaker 3: question the way you did that if a young black

768
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 3: queer person were to see the book. Yesterday, I was

769
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 3: at Harvard. Henry Lewis Gates, the Great Henry Lewis Gates

770
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 3: did a book talk with me at the Hutchin Center

771
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: there at Harvard, and we went to Q and A,

772
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 3: and there was a young black woman off to my

773
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 3: side here who asked a question. And she said that

774
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,919
Speaker 3: she and her friend were in Boston and had heard

775
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 3: about this event and just decided on a whim to

776
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 3: come over to Cambridge to.

777
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 2: Be at the book talk.

778
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 3: And she said she was so moved by listening to

779
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 3: the story. And that's when she came out and said

780
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 3: that she's a young queer, black queer woman who's trying

781
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 3: to navigate this world and how do you keep hopeful

782
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 3: and while at the same time being, you know, trying

783
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: to safeguard your safety and your space.

784
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 2: And it was just.

785
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 3: Such a I don't even remember what I said to her,

786
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: but it was such a wonderful conversation that we ended

787
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 3: up having, and she got emotional, she started to tear

788
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 3: up when she was asking her question. I answered, and

789
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 3: you know, there are those moments when you're talking to

790
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 3: someone and you're looking at them and you just know.

791
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: That they could use a hug.

792
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 3: And I just jumped up and I said, can I

793
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 3: give you a hug? And it was just it was

794
00:54:52,760 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 3: one of those moments where I understood how important I

795
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 3: hope this book will be to her once she reads it.

796
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 3: She got a copy. I autographed it for her, and

797
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 3: I hope it gives her a roadmap.

798
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 2: For the question that she that she was asking. More broadly.

799
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 3: The night before, I did an event in Springfield, Massachusetts

800
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 3: at the Basketball Hall of Fame.

801
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 2: Is where my that was on a basketball court in

802
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 2: this museum, this museum to basketball, and wonderful conversation.

803
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 3: There's Q and A and the penultimate person because all

804
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 3: these adults and then who's there but this little, this

805
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 3: adorable black girl, nine years old. Her name's Amora, and

806
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 3: she tells me that you know, she has written a

807
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 3: book that is in the Library of Congress, and she

808
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 3: wanted to know how do you deal with writer's block?

809
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 3: And it was just it was so adorable, Sophia.

810
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,919
Speaker 1: That well, what did you tell her?

811
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 2: Oh? I told her, I listened to music. You know

812
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 2: what I'm writing.

813
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 3: That's the music I put on to sort of hit

814
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 3: up the emotion that I need or the speed that

815
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 3: I need to write. And she said she listens to

816
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 3: music too, and then she went away, and then someone said, well, wait,

817
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 3: what's the name of her book?

818
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 2: She comes back, I call.

819
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 3: Her back and I think the name of her book

820
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 3: was Queen Aunt and it's the children's book about how

821
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 3: this aunt is a leader and leading the other ants.

822
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 3: And she said it's part of a series of books

823
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 3: that she's going to do of aunt leaders. And I said, oh, so,

824
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 3: what's the next one? She said, Butterfly, what's the next one?

825
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 3: Oh no, what's the next one? B a be, what's

826
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 3: the next one? Butterfly, what's the next one? I don't

827
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 3: know what's the next one, Grasshopper, I said, I'm asking because.

828
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 2: I know you know what you want your series to be.

829
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 3: And we've wrapped up the conversation, and as I walked

830
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 3: back to the stage and sat in my chair, I

831
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 3: got emotional.

832
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 2: I had to give myself a moment.

833
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 3: Because this moment that we're in is so fraught, it's

834
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 3: so scary, it's concerning. We don't know what's going to

835
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 3: happen from day to day. And yet that nine year

836
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 3: old girl, I said to everyone, she what we just

837
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 3: saw right now, she is the reason why I have hope. Yeah,

838
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 3: And so you know, for that nine year old who's,

839
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,479
Speaker 3: you know, kind of kind of like me at that age,

840
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 3: she knows exactly where she wants to go and what

841
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 3: she's doing. To that black queer woman the next day

842
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 3: at Harvard, who is trying to navigate those two different

843
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 3: conversations to different people. But I left more hopeful having

844
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 3: talked to both of them than I did when we

845
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 3: started the conversation. And so, you know, how could I

846
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 3: how could I not be hopeful for the future despite

847
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 3: what's going on.

848
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's something so important to click into

849
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: that we have to remember what we're fighting for, not

850
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: just what we're fighting against. Yes, yes we have to

851
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: fight fascism, but we're fighting for the babies. We're fighting

852
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: for the books to be written. We're fighting for, you know,

853
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: a healthy community, and I think hope is so valuable

854
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: because of that.

855
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 2: Hope is fuel.

856
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you look forward, for you, whether it's personal

857
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: or professional, what feels like you're work in progress right now?

858
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 2: Oh? My work in progress? Huh? Well that it's deeply

859
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 2: personal in that.

860
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 3: Here I was this ten year old kid who had

861
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 3: a dream and no roadmap. There's nobody in my family

862
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 3: who and still to this day, no one in my

863
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 3: family who is a writer, an author, a journalist in television.

864
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 3: The closest was my uncle McKinley, and he was an

865
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 3: electrician at a television company. So I'm the only one

866
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 3: in my family who has done any of the things

867
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 3: that I'm doing right now. As a result, I'm now

868
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 3: at an age where I'm twice the age, more than

869
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 3: twice the age of my father when he died. He died,

870
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 3: as you know, when I was four months old, and

871
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 3: so I'm getting to that. I'm at that point, Sophia,

872
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 3: where what do you do when you have not only

873
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 3: reached your your dreams, you've exceeded them.

874
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 2: What's next?

875
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 3: That's the that is the thing that is most compelling

876
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 3: to be right now, what is the next thing, especially

877
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 3: when I'm so I'm still young. Yeah, and there's more,

878
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 3: there's more to do, so that that is the thing,

879
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 3: that's the big what's next?

880
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: Gosh? How do you how do you write yourself a

881
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: permission slip to do something beyond your wildest dreams?

882
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

883
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: That's a really exciting place to be mm hmm. Congratulations

884
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: to you, my friend.

885
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,439
Speaker 2: Ah, thank you, Sophia, thank you, yeah.

886
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: On the life, on the book, on all of it,

887
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: and thank you for joining us today.

888
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 2: Ah, thank you for having me. This is fun.