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Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

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Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know

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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is

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Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier,

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Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money

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Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and

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Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, Krystal. Indeed, we do a lot

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Speaker 1: of important and also interesting stories. We have new developments

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Speaker 1: with regards to Russia and Ukraine and also our administrations response.

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Speaker 1: We had some very very revealing and interesting comments, very

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Speaker 1: prominent official calling for diplomacy, something that you rarely hear

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Speaker 1: on cable news that we're going to break all of

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Speaker 1: that down. Also, some new developments in terms of the

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Speaker 1: stock market and new regulations from the Biden administration with

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Speaker 1: regard to chips being exported to China that could be

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Speaker 1: quite significant. This is a story even following for a

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Speaker 1: while our relationship with Saudi Arabia. Now you have Senator Menendez,

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Speaker 1: who is the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what, it's time to stop selling arms to

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Speaker 1: the saudis huge development. His rationale is interesting and revealing

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Speaker 1: in and of itself. We'll get to that. And we

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Speaker 1: also have an important update for you on a story

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Speaker 1: we covered a while back animal rights activist who had

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Speaker 1: been arrested in charged for rescuing to piglets which were

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Speaker 1: on the verge of death. They said, in like half

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Speaker 1: a dozen FBI agents across state lines, all with regard

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Speaker 1: to these two little piglets, expending these incredible federal government resources.

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Speaker 1: Why because they're embarrassing the you know, big ag agricultural

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Speaker 1: industrial farming industry. So we'll break that all down for

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Speaker 1: you as well. We've got to Chipotle workers on who

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Speaker 1: are organizing chipotles across the country. So excited about that one.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to any of that, we are

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Speaker 1: really excited about the live show that we have going

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Speaker 1: on this weekend in Chicago. Let's go and put it

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Speaker 1: up on the screen. So we're headed to Chicago fifteenth.

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Speaker 1: It's your last chance this week to get those tickets

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Speaker 1: so that you can come and see us live. We've

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Speaker 1: really spent a lot of time sort of work shopping

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Speaker 1: this particular show and thinking about how we can make

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Speaker 1: it really participatory. We're going to have a lot of

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Speaker 1: audience engagement, some of the normal elements of the show

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Speaker 1: that you're used to, our monologues and you know, are

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Speaker 1: back and forth and all of that, but also adding

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Speaker 1: in some new and different things as well. So we're

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Speaker 1: very excited about it. Yeah, lots of lessons from Atlanta

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Speaker 1: about what works the best, and I think we're really

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Speaker 1: really leaning into that. This is also a beautiful venue.

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Speaker 1: I really encourage you guys to go ahead and do it. Also,

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Speaker 1: you know, we do have I think a couple of

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Speaker 1: tickets left which involve a meet and greet at the end,

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Speaker 1: so you can go ahead and purchase those. The link

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Speaker 1: is down in the description it's happening. So if you

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Speaker 1: have no plans on the weekend Saturday night, this is

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Speaker 1: what you want to come and do. We promise you

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Speaker 1: it will be a great time for friends, family, parents.

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Speaker 1: Some people brought their parents to Atlanta, so yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's always very heartening in order to meet everybody, and

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Speaker 1: we're really looking forward to That's where do people actually

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Speaker 1: go to get the tickets. There's a link right down

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Speaker 1: in the bottom of this video or in the podcast description,

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Speaker 1: So there we go. Those are right there. Also, this

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Speaker 1: is the last week of the Counterpoints discount, extended a

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Speaker 1: little bit by popular appeals for the Counterpoints graphic up

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Speaker 1: on the screen. That's right. We've got to fancy that

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Speaker 1: they're going to be doing on Friday. We're really looking

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Speaker 1: forward to that. And I also want to say, not

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Speaker 1: Supercast has actually done us a great favorite Crystal. We've

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Speaker 1: had a lot of people ask if they could actually

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Speaker 1: give more than their when the preset amounts for their membership.

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Speaker 1: So now now actually you can select the amount that

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Speaker 1: So again we are not asking or requesting, but if

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Speaker 1: them so many of you have asked us. That is

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Speaker 1: now available and if you need help setting all that up,

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Speaker 1: just send us an email if you're an existing premium

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Speaker 1: member Breaking Points Premium at gmail dot com. Okay, administrative

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Speaker 1: stuff out of the way. As always, we thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for bearing with us on these things. Let's

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Speaker 1: start with Ukraine, of course, the most important. After missiles

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Speaker 1: rained down not only on Kiev but really across the

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Speaker 1: entire country, hitting critical energy infrastructure, stopping Ukraine actually from

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Speaker 1: exporting energy for one of the first times in the

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Speaker 1: war and causing long standing blackouts everywhere, there has been

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Speaker 1: increased calls from Ukraine and President Zelenski in order to

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Speaker 1: get Allies to send them advanced air defense systems. So

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Speaker 1: from the Washington Post, which is that the attacks against

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Speaker 1: the cities and the key infrastructure actually has Galvani is

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Speaker 1: a long standing bait amongst Allied countries on what exact,

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Speaker 1: what exact sophisticated air defense systems and critically long range

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Speaker 1: weapons systems that they should provide to Ukraine. So going

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Speaker 1: a little bit into this, it's complicated because the United

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Speaker 1: States actually does and has provided long surface to air

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Speaker 1: missile defense systems known as and I don't want to

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Speaker 1: screw this up. For the geeks out there NASAMS, the

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Speaker 1: National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System, they're always very

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Speaker 1: creative with what they say. Now, we have actually been

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Speaker 1: providing Ukraine with those systems since July. However, we provided

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Speaker 1: them two anti aircraft systems, of which the Ukrainians say

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Speaker 1: that they have actually used quite well during that attack. Result. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no way to know. The Ukrainians claim that they

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Speaker 1: shot down like half of the missile cruise missiles that

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Speaker 1: were fired on Ukraine. I don't know. Russian say they

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Speaker 1: hit all their Russia say hit all their targets. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who knows what's true and what's not. In fact, there

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Speaker 1: was some video showing that there were some backfire on

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Speaker 1: for the United States to provide Ukraine with all of

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Speaker 1: systems that were asked, they are going to be asking for.

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Speaker 1: Here's the issue. We don't have them. It will take

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Speaker 1: quote several years to procure and to deliver, as in

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Speaker 1: we literally do not have any of the leftovers. What

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Speaker 1: we do have. Are some Soviet era defense systems that

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Speaker 1: officials have said are already being familiar to the Ukrainian troops.

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Speaker 1: Now those have been provided by Slovakia and a few

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Speaker 1: other of the allies. Germany also announced yesterday it will

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Speaker 1: be providing some of air defense systems as well. They're

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Speaker 1: known as IRST Air Defense systems, and said that they

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Speaker 1: would have arrived quote in the next few days. However,

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Speaker 1: this is not the fulsome nature of what the Ukrainians want,

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Speaker 1: because they are actually combining what has just happened with

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Speaker 1: air defense systems. On top of hey, by the way,

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Speaker 1: we we also need those long range missile systems that

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Speaker 1: you refuse to sell us, because they're saying they need

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Speaker 1: to have a war of defense to be able to

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Speaker 1: strike on the missiles that are targeting them. Well, that

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Speaker 1: brings us into a very different strategic territory because we

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Speaker 1: did not provide them those weapons systems specifically because we

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Speaker 1: were afraid that it would sparkle bigger conflicts with Russia.

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Speaker 1: According to Biden, however, and let's put the next one

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Speaker 1: up there on the screen, Ukraine is very very sadly, yeah,

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Speaker 1: will say, on their part, approaching and it is quote

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Speaker 1: weapons wish list as the winter approaches. So what we've

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Speaker 1: seen here is that on top of their new air

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Speaker 1: defense systems, really what they want is to be able

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Speaker 1: to deter critical Ukrainian infrastructure strikes, the likes of which

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Speaker 1: that we just saw yesterday. The issue is that there

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Speaker 1: is a major conflict in Washington to try and separate

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Speaker 1: out any defensive system from an offensive system. Right, And

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Speaker 1: you can completely make sense, which is that in US

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Speaker 1: military doctrine, for example, part of the reason we were

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Speaker 1: so against a no fly zone is because there's no

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Speaker 1: such thing as just declaring a no fly zone. Like

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Speaker 1: if you declare one, that means you have to be

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Speaker 1: able to take out any of the systems which are

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Speaker 1: going to shoot down your planes. So now you're in

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Speaker 1: a war of offense, even though you're technically in a

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Speaker 1: war of defense. And this is going to be the

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Speaker 1: critical debate, I think in the next couple of days,

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Speaker 1: given the fervor of how people are reacting after the

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Speaker 1: Ukrainian attack. Yeah, so there's a lot of interesting context here.

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Speaker 1: First of all, you know, in the early days of

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Speaker 1: this war, the lens skiing All will probably recall this

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Speaker 1: was very upfront about what his demands were. What he

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Speaker 1: wanted was making public, very public appeals. Those public appeals

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Speaker 1: were sort of dialed back over time because he recognized

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Speaker 1: that this was not really the most effective way to operate.

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Speaker 1: The demands did not go away, but instead of being

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Speaker 1: publicly issued, instead it was you know, talking to the

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Speaker 1: administration directly and continuing to press for more and war

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Speaker 1: weapons and including these missile defense systems and also in

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Speaker 1: the longer range missiles that they still are very much

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Speaker 1: pressing for. So what was interesting here is the minute

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Speaker 1: effectively that you had these Russian strikes across the country.

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Speaker 1: You had a concerted public effort from the Ukrainians to

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Speaker 1: ask specifically for anti aircraft and anti missile systems to Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: So you had the Defense Minister tweeting the best response

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Speaker 1: to Russian missile tears the supply of anti aircraft and

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Speaker 1: anti missile systems to Ukraine. This will protect our cities

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Speaker 1: and our people. This will protect the future of Europe.

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Speaker 1: You had the Foreign Minister tweeting after Russian attacks that

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Speaker 1: we urgently need more modern air defense and missile defense

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Speaker 1: systems to save innocent lives. You had a presidential advisor

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Speaker 1: tweeting instead of talking we need air defense mlrs longer

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Speaker 1: range projectiles. And Estonia's intelligence chief and we've been covering Estonia.

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Speaker 1: They're very hawkish in terms of their approach to this conflict.

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Speaker 1: They also are calling for these types of longer range

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Speaker 1: weapons to Ukraine, and that's the piece that you know,

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration is concerned would be very escalatory, as

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Speaker 1: Saber you were indicating, the concern over the anti aircraft

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Speaker 1: and anti missile systems is less about that escalatory factor

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Speaker 1: and more about just not having those systems available and

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Speaker 1: also what we may need should we ever get into

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Speaker 1: a right So the idea was that, you know, we

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Speaker 1: would provide them certain things that we have been providing,

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Speaker 1: and we would sort of fund their ability to procure

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Speaker 1: on their own these types of systems. And of course

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Speaker 1: that will, as you indicate, take quite a while for

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Speaker 1: those to be developed, and then there's a question of

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Speaker 1: training and whether they'll be ready to go to effectively

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Speaker 1: utilize those systems. So, you know, if you're Russia, just

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Speaker 1: think about this, because I'm reading reports this morning. You know,

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Speaker 1: the lights and electricity and water is basically back on

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Speaker 1: mostly across the country. You know, they're no doubt that

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Speaker 1: this first of all killed people, including civilians, and that

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Speaker 1: this you know, was a terrifying situation for Ukrainians across

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Speaker 1: the country and it was designed to be so. But

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Speaker 1: also they didn't, unlike the you know, attack on the

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Speaker 1: Crimea Bridge, which is a big psychological blow and also

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Speaker 1: a big strategic blow, this didn't accomplish any sort of

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Speaker 1: real battle objectives. Their hand in terms of their military

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Speaker 1: tactics and where they stand has not changed because of

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Speaker 1: these attacks. So it's essentially like sort of like an

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Speaker 1: anti virtue signal, like just being able to show like

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Speaker 1: we can still do something, which is both designed to

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Speaker 1: terrify the Ukrainian public and also to sort of placate

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Speaker 1: their own domestic hardliners. So they have this sort of

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Speaker 1: showy display that doesn't really accomplish their battlefield objectives. And

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Speaker 1: then right away you basically have the Biden ministers and saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, those anti aircraft, anti missile defense systems that

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Speaker 1: you guys have been asking for, we're going to go

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Speaker 1: and we've been dragging our feet on, We're going to

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Speaker 1: go ahead and provide, right And that's also what's complicates

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Speaker 1: this so much because On top of this, there's actually

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Speaker 1: secret negotiations going on right now between the US and

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Speaker 1: Ukraine on whether to send F sixteens and Patriot missile

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Speaker 1: defense systems to Ukraine. Now, the thing is with the

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Speaker 1: Patriot missile defense systems is we barely have enough in

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Speaker 1: order to protect NATO and ourselves. There's a long standing

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Speaker 1: supply problem of which is very boring and they could

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Speaker 1: go into for a long time. But the secondary part

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Speaker 1: of that on the F sixteens is one that has

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Speaker 1: been one of those lines that the Biden administration, NATO

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Speaker 1: in particular has been refusing to cross Poland, Romania and

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Speaker 1: others will remember the whole fighter jet controversy in the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the war. Anyway, all of this is getting

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Speaker 1: looped in to the current environment as to why we're

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Speaker 1: spending so much time covering it, because how NATO in

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Speaker 1: the West decides to respond to this and the type

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Speaker 1: of weapons systems they send could actually change the strategic

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Speaker 1: situation overall. President Biden put out a freadout of his

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Speaker 1: phone call, let's go and put this up there on

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Speaker 1: the screen with Selenski yesterday. Here's what he said. Biden

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Speaker 1: spoke today with President Lensky and Ukraine. He expresses condemnation

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Speaker 1: of Russia's missile strikes across Ukraine, including in Kievan, conveys

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Speaker 1: his condolences. Biden pledged to continue providing Ukraine with the

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Speaker 1: support adding to defend it self, including advanced air defence systems.

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Speaker 1: He also underscored his ongoing engagement with allies and partners,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Now, the reason why that this matters again

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Speaker 1: is it's all being looped up, the debates on defensive

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Speaker 1: and offensive weapon couched in the realm of supposedly being

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Speaker 1: able to stop future Russia attacks within the context of

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Speaker 1: these strikes. Now the other problem too, on the strikes.

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Speaker 1: This is what you just said, power is back on

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine. Did it work? I mean kind of like

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Speaker 1: the Ukrainians are probably more resolute than ever. They're like,

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Speaker 1: oh wow, I really hate these people. We're not gonna

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Speaker 1: value At the same time, you know, it was like,

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Speaker 1: what you're gonna bomb one of our childhood parks and

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Speaker 1: it's like, we're gonna parks and a pedestrian bridge where

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Speaker 1: people take selfies, like a beautiful national place, and we're

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Speaker 1: just gonna capitulate to you. Whenever you have unproven capabilities

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Speaker 1: on the battlefield. No, the issue is that Russia also

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Speaker 1: does not necessarily have a lot of these precision guided munitions.

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Speaker 1: So I looked a little bit deeper into this, and

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Speaker 1: from all current estimates of their actual precision guide ammunitions,

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Speaker 1: there is a reason that we saw this limited one

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Speaker 1: strike happen yesterday and it had not happened effectively on

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Speaker 1: that scale since March. It's because Russia has two things.

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Speaker 1: They're not in a total war with Ukraine. If they

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Speaker 1: wanted to dedicate one hundred percent of their military capability

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Speaker 1: to this, I guess they could, and you know, Frank,

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Speaker 1: it would be horrific for the Ukrainian people and for

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Speaker 1: the world. But they also have to consider, Hey, what

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Speaker 1: if we get into a war with NATO, what if

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Speaker 1: we get into a war with any greater power than Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna need these advanced missile systems, and they do

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Speaker 1: not have a lot of the production So they have

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Speaker 1: and there's all this propaganda about the amount that's rolling

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Speaker 1: off of their production line and more, but it seems

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Speaker 1: that they are very limited to the conventional world. Basically

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Speaker 1: like weapons developed from the nineteen fifties to like the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, Like everything that's advanced and requires a lot

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Speaker 1: of electronics, microchips and more. That stuff is very difficult

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Speaker 1: for them to procure at mass scale and especially at speed,

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Speaker 1: which is why they have not been able to bring

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Speaker 1: it to bear right anyway, So it bears the question

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Speaker 1: of like, is this actually a real you know, is

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Speaker 1: this actually gonna be a real problem in the future.

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Speaker 1: I mean, all current stocks indicate that Russia, yes, they're

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Speaker 1: capable of lashing out like this, but unless they go

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Speaker 1: to a total war footing, which by the way, is possible,

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Speaker 1: like if the Ukrainian if the Russians is what we've

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Speaker 1: warned about, a tactical nuclear strike, if their regime is

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Speaker 1: fully up against the wall, then yeah, I think they

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Speaker 1: might fully mobilize, dedicate their entire economy, population, and weapons

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Speaker 1: cash is to war with Ukraine. But in the current environment, like,

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Speaker 1: I just don't see how I don't think it'd be

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Speaker 1: conventionally possible for them to do so, which is and

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Speaker 1: that's not just me, Like everything I've read from arms

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Speaker 1: experts and more that estimate that estimate their actual force capability.

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Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, the strike yesterday was a

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Speaker 1: position of weakness to show you like, we can't do

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Speaker 1: this all the time, but we can't do it every

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Speaker 1: once in a while if we will well, And then

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Speaker 1: it begs a question like what was the real purpose

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Speaker 1: of these strikes? And you know, I do think potentially

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Speaker 1: like just as a reminder to Ukraine, like we have

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Speaker 1: other stuff we could do, and you should continue to

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Speaker 1: be terrified, but actually think, And this was the point

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Speaker 1: that Yegor was making to me, this is more about

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Speaker 1: placating a domestic hardline audience, which immediately, you know, Kadirov

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Speaker 1: and all these guys that have been out there chirping

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Speaker 1: and like complaining about the direction of the war and

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Speaker 1: like really raking across the coals the military leadership. Will

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Speaker 1: they put a new more brutal guy in charge. They

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Speaker 1: unleashed these attacks on energy and infrastructure and sort of

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Speaker 1: across all of Ukraine, hitting the strategic cities across the

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Speaker 1: entire country, and now those guys are all happy as

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Speaker 1: they could possibly be and celebrating this great win for

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Speaker 1: Russia and all of this stuff, when again, in reality,

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Speaker 1: what have you done. You've burned through some of your

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Speaker 1: precious stockpile, You've sort of demonstrated the limits of your capabilities,

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Speaker 1: and you've also ultimately not changed your position in terms

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Speaker 1: of the outcome of the war really whatsoever. If anything,

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Speaker 1: As you said, you've probably strengthened the resolve of the

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Speaker 1: Ukrainian people even more to push you all of the

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Speaker 1: way out. So that's why I thought, you know, when

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Speaker 1: Yeager was making this case, to me, it made sense

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Speaker 1: to me that this is really more about quieting the

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Speaker 1: hardliners and placating a domestic audience after this very humiliating

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Speaker 1: situation with the crimea bridge and you know, however that

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Speaker 1: unfolded and whatever happened there, so that he would sort

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Speaker 1: of quiet that dissent. As we've been saying all along,

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Speaker 1: the strongest adversarial voices in Russia are not those who

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Speaker 1: would actually want peace. It's the hardliners. It's the people

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Speaker 1: that want that wholesale mass mobilization, that want more of

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Speaker 1: a hawkish approach that even in certain cases have called

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Speaker 1: directly in Medvedev's case, for tactical nuclear strikes. So that's

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Speaker 1: the audience that it seems like these strikes were really

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Speaker 1: designed to ultimately message to. Yeah, and at the same time,

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Speaker 1: the US also, you know, committing one hundred percent beyond

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Speaker 1: President Biden. Let's put this up there, Secretary Blincoln. He says, quote,

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Speaker 1: I just spoke with my Ukrainian foreign minister to reiterate

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Speaker 1: US support Ukraine following the Kremlin's horrific strikes this morning.

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Speaker 1: We will continue to provide unwavering economic, humanitarian, and security

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Speaker 1: assistance to Ukraine. So can Ukraine defend itself and take

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Speaker 1: care of its people. So, you know, basically unwavering from

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Speaker 1: the United States. And I think that that is a

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Speaker 1: pretty good overview of where things stand. Not necessarily this

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Speaker 1: changed anything on the battlefield situation, but it may change

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Speaker 1: things in terms of how NATO and the Western Allies

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Speaker 1: continue to supply Ukraine. And it does show you the

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Speaker 1: dance the Russians have to walk, which is, if you

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Speaker 1: go too far and you actually commit to it, you

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Speaker 1: could get into a broader war. If you don't go

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Speaker 1: far and off, you might lose the war of which

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Speaker 1: is happening right now anyway critical times, or lose remain

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Speaker 1: on the battleground hour. Yeah now. And it's very hard

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Speaker 1: to have any sort of insight into whether there's a

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Speaker 1: real threat of that or not. But you know, these

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Speaker 1: sorts of actions sort of indicate that he's feeling some

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Speaker 1: pressure just in terms of maintaining his own grip on power. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that. I think the fact that he did

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Speaker 1: it to play in the fact that Kadirov came out

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Speaker 1: saying he now supports the military operation shows you who

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Speaker 1: the intended audience for Beyond Ukraine, There's also many domestic

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Speaker 1: audiences that he has to fulfill. All right, let's move

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Speaker 1: on now to a very interesting diplomatic development here, and

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Speaker 1: this shows you again the tightrope that I alluded to.

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Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen. India and China,

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Speaker 1: which all eyes are on, are, of course, with regards

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Speaker 1: to this situation, the two great powers, which are not

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Speaker 1: backing Russia but not also being as adversarial, actually criticized

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Speaker 1: Russia after the strikes, calling for de escalation. Now to

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Speaker 1: be clear, they did not name Russia specifically, but as

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Speaker 1: when Prime Minister Modi said that the world desires peace

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Speaker 1: while sitting right next to Vladimir Putin, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a screw you. In very coded language. First from the

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Speaker 1: Chinese Foreign Ministry, here's what they said. Quote, all countries

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Speaker 1: deserve respect for their sovereignty and territorial integrity. Support should

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Speaker 1: be given to all efforts that are conducive to peacefully

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Speaker 1: resolving the crisis. Now, from the Indian Ministry of External Affairs,

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Speaker 1: here's what New Delhi says. India is deeply concern at

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Speaker 1: the escalation of the conflict in Ukraine, including targeting of

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Speaker 1: infrastructure and deaths of civilian So anyway Theraine. The Indian

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Speaker 1: response there is probably the most direct criticism yet that

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Speaker 1: they have given of Putin. Why does it matter, Well,

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Speaker 1: they remain one of the top customers of Russian oil,

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Speaker 1: and I do think it bears parsing as to how

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Speaker 1: the Indians in particular are approaching this. And even in

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Speaker 1: the Chinese they're like, listen, if you're gonna sells cheap oil,

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Speaker 1: we'll take that oil. They're like, don't mistake for a

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Speaker 1: second that we support, you know, bombing of critical infrastructure

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine. And it's also a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: lesson for Putin of yeah, you might want to go

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Speaker 1: total war, but if you do, like you will lose

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Speaker 1: your last two standing customers who are funding basically the

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Speaker 1: entire war effort. He really has put himself in a

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Speaker 1: very strategic pickle, and I think for the Indian for

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Speaker 1: him to have zero allies in this fight except for Belarus,

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, that's a bad situation to be in,

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Speaker 1: and it just highlights like how strategically dumb the invasion

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Speaker 1: was in the first place. Also shows you how precarious

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Speaker 1: their situation is is. They can't really commit beyond what

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Speaker 1: they're already doing without possibly risking the loss of their

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Speaker 1: largest oil customers on the globe. Yeah, well Saudi is

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Speaker 1: backing them up, so true, they've got some friends there.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to we'll get you that in a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think also from the India and China perspective, you know,

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Speaker 1: part of the rub with these countries with regards to

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Speaker 1: the West is the feeling of like all these international

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Speaker 1: organizations and like rules of the global order. Not to

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Speaker 1: say that in the conspiratorial sense, but these are all

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Speaker 1: set up by the US and by the West, and

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Speaker 1: they feel like they're given a sort of second class

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Speaker 1: status within that order. So in the beginning of this

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Speaker 1: when it was like, oh, Russia is like challenging that

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Speaker 1: order and maybe we're going to sort of wait and

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Speaker 1: see how this plays out. Well, now they're saying how

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Speaker 1: it's playing out, and it's not playing out that well

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Speaker 1: for Russia. So it's important to remember that these new comments,

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Speaker 1: these are not the first comments that Russia, I mean

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Speaker 1: that China and India have made that have been at

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Speaker 1: least obliquely critical of Russia. There was that summit in

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Speaker 1: Uzbekistan last month. They say it was meant to be

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Speaker 1: a show of force for Putin, but the leader had

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Speaker 1: to take knowledge that Jijinpang of China had raised quote

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Speaker 1: questions and concerns about the war. India's Prime Minister Narandra

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Speaker 1: Modi was more publican direct describing how the war has

431
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: exacerbated challenges for developing countries. He told Putin at the

432
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: summit their meeting would be quote a chance to discuss

433
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: how we can move forward on the path of peace.

434
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: And you know, these are also countries that have their

435
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: own domestic political considerations that they have to think about.

436
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: I mean, they are also being hit with inflation. China

437
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: seems to be facing a lot of economic woes and difficulties.

438
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: So you know the fact that this war has exacerbated

439
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: some of these crises for their own domestic population is

440
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,199
Speaker 1: obviously a consideration here as well, but quite noteworthy the

441
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 1: increasing like arms length distancing of these two countries that

442
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: Russia in particular with China, thought they'd be able to

443
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: rely on the beginning. Yeah, I think there's no other

444
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: way to describe it. Of a real problem for Putin

445
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: to be in this situation, and everybody has their own

446
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: domestic political concerns. I think the clear answer from New

447
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: Delhi is, hey, we're willing to stand up to the

448
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: West as long as we're getting this cheap oil and

449
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: we're able to do it without incurring any costs. But

450
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: if you go too far and you're going to incur

451
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: us costs, then this entire deal is up. And the

452
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: precarity then of the Russian economy really can't be overstated.

453
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: I mean, over and over again, the Russian oil markets

454
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: and Russia really has been saved both by Opek and

455
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: by Hyle by the supply shock. But that is a

456
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: dangerous situation to have only one or two customers that

457
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: you can be wholly reliant on in order to backstop

458
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: your economy, and that means you have to placate them very,

459
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: very very carefully. I think that New Delhi the moment

460
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: that they would have to face a UN resolution that

461
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: would actually or you know, sanctions possibly by the West,

462
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: some type of thing, they would pull the plug on

463
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: their relationship. That's what they've always done. They've basically played

464
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: the West and the Russians against each other and are like,

465
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: we'll go with whoever's going to give us a deal,

466
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: is going to give us saviss what. It's very Indian,

467
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 1: I think, and they're handling it. It's right. The Chinese

468
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: say that I can't. I also as far as the time,

469
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: I mean, they've been doing it basically since the Cold

470
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 1: War's kind of interesting. It's called the non align movement anyway.

471
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: In terms of the Chinese, same thing, which is that

472
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 1: they like the chaos. They like actually the West being

473
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: pinned down in Europe. So they'll backstop the Russians, but

474
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: they're not going to sell them any weapons. They haven't

475
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: done so. I mean, the North Koreans right now are

476
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: taking advantage that if Russia really wasn't a pickle, would

477
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: they come and save them. I'm not so sure, because

478
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 1: they too also don't want to suffer those consequences, and

479
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: they don't really they don't want the trouble and to

480
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 1: be directly on them. Again, They're just like the Indians.

481
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: They'll take the cheap oiler. Yeah, I get it, And

482
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: this is why, you know when there's We've been over

483
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: this a couple of times, but I just I keep

484
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: hearing this argument being made. So I really want to

485
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: underscore why I think it's silly and fascile of an argument,

486
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 1: this idea that like, oh, if you negotiate with Russia

487
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: at all, if they end up getting anything out of this,

488
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: then they're going to be in bold and they're going

489
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: to roll into another country or other rogue regimes around

490
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 1: the world. World are going to look at this and say,

491
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: you know what, we should do this too. Because Russia

492
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: ultimately got ex or y or Z out of this

493
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: deal like this has been an unmitigated disaster for Putin.

494
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: For Russia, I mean for him personally, in terms of

495
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: his grip on power, there seemed to be cracks. It

496
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: has not gone well in terms of the war effort.

497
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: It has not gone well in terms of their economic standing,

498
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: it has not gone well in terms of their international standing.

499
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine any leader around the world looking at

500
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: this and saying that's an experience I want to report right, right,

501
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: even if there was some sort of like you know,

502
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: they end up with crimea or something like that, no

503
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: one is going to look at this and be like

504
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: that was great for them, and I want to do

505
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: the same thing. I tend to agree. All right. Let's

506
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: move on then to the final part here, which is

507
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: interesting also in its own right. Let's go ahead and

508
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: put this up there on the screen, which is the

509
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: issue that we face right now, which you just got

510
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: to on negotiations, which is the Russians, for all their

511
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: talk about diplomacy and all of that. Number two Dmitriy

512
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: Medvedev on the day of the strikes, still calls Crystal

513
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: for complete regime change in Ukraine and actually uses this

514
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: guy was such a psycho, you know. It's it's actually

515
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: a fascinating story its own right, as if I alluded to,

516
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: which is that Medviedev while he was President, Obama thought

517
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: that he could deal with him on a better basis.

518
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: They saw him as more Hillary with the reset button. Yes,

519
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: what didn't end up sameing reset? Yeah that's hilarious, but yeah,

520
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: Manvedev was seen by the West, by European allies as

521
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 1: somebody you could work with a lot less conspiratorial than

522
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: Putin all of that. Yeah, it turns out he's not

523
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: only a crony like he's willing to take power wherever

524
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: he needs it and be Putin's literal attack dog and

525
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: sacrifice his entire standing with the West for all time

526
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: by calling for denoxification in Ukraine. So it does show

527
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: you that even with their backs against the wall, even

528
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: after the humiliating defeats on the battlefield, the gorge of

529
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: the eyes of the world, you know, the diminishment of

530
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: the Russian state, I could go on forever. After all

531
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: of that, they are still using the same talking points

532
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: about how you need complete regime change in Ukraine when

533
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: you celebrating those missiles, and he's the one calling also

534
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: for tactical nuclear weapons unlike you know. And this is

535
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: again which for people who want to polemacy like us,

536
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: it's like, well, look, you got to have two sides

537
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: at the table. Yeah, and if the other side is

538
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: going to be completely unhinged and crazy, then the death

539
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: is on you as much as it is on the

540
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: other side, which is why it drives me nuts whenever

541
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: they speak this way. Yeah, so there's a development this morning.

542
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: I'm curious of your thoughts on so. Sergei Lavrov, whose

543
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: Russia's foreign minister, said on Tuesday Moscow was open to

544
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: talks with the West on the Ukraine War, but had

545
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: yet to receive any serious proposal to negotiate and reading

546
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: from US News and World Report. In an interview on

547
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: State TV, Lavrov said Russia was willing to engage with

548
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: the US or with Turkey on ways to end the

549
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: war now and it's eight month, eighth month. His emphasis

550
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: on Russia's receptiveness comes after a series of staining defeats

551
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. Lavrov said officials, including White House

552
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: National Security spokesman John Kirby, had said the US was

553
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: open to talks, but Russia had refused. This is a lie,

554
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: Lavrov said. We have not received any serious offers to

555
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: make contact, so making some noises like he would be

556
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: willing to have a Putin Biden meeting, right, what do

557
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: you read into that? I mean, once again, it's hard

558
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: to take them serious. Putin and Biden meeting for what purpose?

559
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: I mean? And also they need to be real, which

560
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: is that there's no way that's going to happen unless

561
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: there is any serious cease fire. Well, there have to

562
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: be communications below the presidential level before you would expect

563
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: to get to that level of meeting. There would have

564
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: to be some sort of I mean, I think it

565
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: would be hard for Biden to meet with no conditions

566
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: whatsoever with Putin at this point, get everything I agree,

567
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: and things two things would happen. Either they would have

568
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: to stop or things would have to get a lot worse,

569
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: like we'd have to literally be on the brink of

570
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: a nuclear exchange for that. And even then, I struct

571
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: sure the political condition would align. I mean, the issue

572
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: to you know, Lavrov in particular, like, these guys are

573
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: wily liars. I watched them break many many ceasefires in Syria.

574
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say it was all on them. There

575
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: was a lot of complicated stuff. But the point is

576
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: you can't really take a lot of their word seriously.

577
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 1: And so if they're going to continue to parrot this

578
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: type of language, and also even in terms of their negotiation,

579
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, at the one hand they're saying this stuff,

580
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: on the other they like endorse Elon Musk's proposal as

581
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: one that they would consider. So it's like which one,

582
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: you know, they're the ones Also that have to lay

583
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: things out as well, and they're not giving themselves any

584
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: room in order to open that table. I just don't

585
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: think it's possible from the Russian side, But I also

586
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: want to be clear, I don't think it's really possible

587
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: from the Ukrainian side either. I mean, go ahead and

588
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: put this next one up there on the screen, you know.

589
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: Right now, Zelenski remains resolute in his position quote Ukraine

590
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: is ready to hold negotiations with Russia only with a

591
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: new Russian president, effectively calling for total regime change in Moscow.

592
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: On the same hand, and actually there was a columnist,

593
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: David Ignatius, who I don't think you should pay attention

594
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: to him for necessarily his own opinions, but you should

595
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: for his deep connections with the CIA and the deep state.

596
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: And he was in Kiev and he basically wrote a

597
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: column actually very recently that just came out, and he said, look,

598
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: the idea of the idea of compromise right now is absurd.

599
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: It is it is simply not in the cars for us.

600
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: The consensus is there is there can be no compromise.

601
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: And this is from the Again, I take him seriously,

602
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: because he was just in Kiev, with Zelenski and all

603
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: of his advisors and the thinking, maybe it's bluster, maybe

604
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: it's not. Once again, I have no idea. I can

605
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: only tell you what they say, and here's what he writes.

606
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: What's clear to me is that there's no middle ground.

607
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: The resiliency and resolve I heard reminded me of Londoners

608
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: during the Blitz in World War Two. I asked repeatedly,

609
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: I was asked repeatedly by Zelenski and his advisors why

610
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: people in the West still even talk about compromise with

611
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: pus so their head is nowhere even close to negotiation.

612
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: You basically have two sides that, at least at times

613
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: publicly stated position is we won't negotiate until we have

614
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: regime change in the other right, and that's a recipe

615
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: for disaster. Here's a direct quote from the head of

616
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian National Security Council. It would be extremely difficult

617
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: to explain to our society why we need to even

618
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: sit down at the table with these terrorists and negotiate. Well,

619
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: and this is where I mean, I don't blame them

620
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: for that view, yesoever, but this is also where the

621
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: Biden administration's stance has led to the place where you

622
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: would have this really hard line, you know, totally uncompromising

623
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: language coming from the Ukrainians, where you know, I don't

624
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: doubt that they really mean it, because we have sort

625
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: of enabled, you know, we've created the reality that exists

626
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: right now where they really feel like they have a

627
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: chance at complete victory, where they feel like it's possible

628
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: that they may even be able to, you know, watch

629
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 1: the downfall or the overthrow of Putin's government and his power,

630
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: and so you know, we've really sort of enabled these

631
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: loggerhead conditions in terms of any sort of diplomacy. And

632
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: that's even without going back to you know, the short

633
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: circuited piece talks that at least by some reporting, had

634
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: some chance in the early days of working out, and

635
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: we said, now we're not down for that. There's no

636
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: way to know, there's literally no way to know about

637
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: how this is all going to work out. But I

638
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: think it's always important, you know, for people who are

639
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, fans of diplomacy and want it for us

640
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: to also be real about what the conditions being created

641
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: by the both sides are where it seems almost impossible

642
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: and the road to much more destruction and death just

643
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: seems all the more likely, I mean, unfortunately, total defeat

644
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: for Russia, like even being pushed down of crimea, et cetera.

645
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: You know, that really heidens the risk number one, that

646
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: Putin would feel his status and power was at existential

647
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: risk and dramatically increases the chance that he would resort

648
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: to something like a tactical nuclear strike in order to

649
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: hold on to power. So that's why these kinds of

650
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: signs and signals are troubling, because ultimately that's the sort

651
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: of back against the wall, no other option situation you

652
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,959
Speaker 1: could end up in with catastrophic consequences for everyone, including

653
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: the Ukrainians. That's right. So let's get to the next block.

654
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: We thought it was very important to highlight this. Well

655
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: we're about to show you is Admiral Mike Mullen. Something

656
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: you might know him. He was the Chairman of the

657
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: Joint Chiefs of Staff under President Bush and President Obama. Now, look,

658
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm not going to lie to you. He is a

659
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: mixed record on Afghanistan, didn't exactly tell us the truth.

660
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: That being said, I followed him a lot in the

661
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: days of the Syrian Civil War, Crystal, because even at

662
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: that time he was always pushing back against hawks who

663
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: wanted to create a no fly zone over Syria because

664
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: he wanted to avoid conflicts with Russia. And he gave

665
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: a very eye opening interview, the first likes of which

666
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: I have ever seen on national television, in which he

667
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: was very clear with the American people about what Putin

668
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: needs to be taken seriously, on what exactly the nuclear

669
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: threat consists of, and what the avenue for the US

670
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: should be. The reason why I think it's important is

671
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 1: that this is a former head of the entire United

672
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: States military, chief military advisor to the President advocating not

673
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: for military action like David Petraeus and other four stars

674
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: that was seen on TV after, but instead for diplomatic negotiations.

675
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. How do you assess the nuclear

676
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: threat from Russia right now? Well, I have to take

677
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: Putin seriously. He's got lots of options with tactical nuclear

678
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: weapons from very low yield nuclear weapons. He's a cornered

679
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: I believe, a cornered animal, and I think he's more

680
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: and more dangerous just what's happened in the last twenty

681
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: four hours. It also speaks to the need, I think

682
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: to get to the table I'm a little concerned about

683
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: the language, which we're about at the top, if you will,

684
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 1: President Biden's language with respect to how it all ends,

685
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: and that really is up to I think Tony blink

686
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: and other diplomats to figure out a way to get

687
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: both Zelenski and Putin to the table. And is typical

688
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: in any war, it's got to end and usually there

689
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: are negotiations associated with that. So there are a couple

690
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: of noteworthy things that he says. Number one, take Putin's

691
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: threat of nuclear weapons seriously. Number two calling out President

692
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: Biden for his nuclear armageddon language. Although on that one

693
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: I've seen that the Hawks are basically Biden shouldn't be

694
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: so hyperbolic. I'm like, well, what if he's not being hyperbolic, right?

695
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: It was real? What if that's what he believes? You know,

696
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: I said this yesterday, Crystal. I think we should reiterate

697
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 1: it again, the idea that you can make your most

698
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: fulsome comments about how the entire earth may be destroyed

699
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: behind closed doors, not on camera in front of a

700
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 1: bunch of rich billionaires, and everybody's just supposed to accept

701
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: that when in reality, if the risk is that high,

702
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: you need to sit your ass in the Oval office

703
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: and give a direct address camera on exactly what the

704
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: threat is, what the United States will do, and everything

705
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: I am doing in order to mitigate that threat. Well,

706
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: and this is where with Biden, I mean it almost

707
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: is it's sort of very Trumpian, where you never know

708
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: how much is him just like off the cuff say

709
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: and some shit that he really shouldn't say, but that

710
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: he actually thinks, and how much of it is like

711
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: planned down intentional messaging and strategy, you know, I mean,

712
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: my instinct is this is just you know, he's in

713
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 1: a room, he's talking, He's he's Joe. He's even before

714
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: the mental decline, he's always had sort of verbal diarrhea

715
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: and said things he's not really supposed to say. So

716
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: my instinct is it was more of that kind of

717
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: a situation where he accidentally let loose what he really thinks.

718
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 1: Even is clearly many other people in the administration are

719
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: trying to avoid saying any of this publicly whatsoever. Why

720
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: Because if you acknowledge that we are right now in

721
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: a position where we could face potential nuclear armageddon, it

722
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: begs a lot of questions about how the hell exactly

723
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: we got here. So that's the reason why he doesn't

724
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: want to give that fulsome direct speech comments to the

725
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: American public, because to acknowledge that we've allowed ourselves to

726
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: get in this place is to acknowledge that there were

727
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: potential catastrophic failures along the way. We know that the

728
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: American people would like to see the plumb sy. The

729
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,959
Speaker 1: views that are expressed by Mike Mullen here are very mainstream,

730
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: even though if you express them, you know on Twitter

731
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: other places, you will get absolutely dogpiled as a as

732
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: a Russian sympathizer and all this sort of stuff. But

733
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: you know, the reality is, if you want to end

734
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: this conflict without having over World War three, we're already

735
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: in sort of like low key World War three, but

736
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 1: over World War three and a potential nuclear exchange, at

737
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: some point people are going to have to come to

738
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: the table. Now it feels like we are right now

739
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: a long way from getting to that place. So then

740
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: that begs the question, what do we do to change

741
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: the conditions to enable that sort of serious sit down

742
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: where at least you could get to a ceasefire, at

743
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: least you could come to some sort of an understanding

744
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: or dayton to de escalate this situation rather than what

745
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: we continue to see week after week after week is

746
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: a little more escalation, a little more escalation, a little

747
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: more escalation. I mean, we just learned, let's not forget

748
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: that this is already sort of like fallen out of

749
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: the hues, but we just learned the Ukrainians assassinated Russian

750
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: citizen in Moscow using a car bomb. So those sorts

751
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: of you know, tactics are apparently being deployed by the Ukrainians.

752
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: The US intelligence community says, without our consent, may or

753
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: may not be the case ultimately, but this is a

754
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: really dangerous game that we're playing every single week that

755
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:44,959
Speaker 1: all all it takes is one thing to go wrong.

756
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: That car bomb didn't even kill the right person, so

757
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: they right to kill you know. Okay, Now what it's like,

758
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: what if you killed somebody who's fire up the food chain?

759
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: What if you start assassinating children? People start to go crazy.

760
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: I mean, look, all of this is one percent on

761
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: the table. There's the final thing that I think that

762
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: Admiral Mullen said was notice who he said should bring

763
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: people to the table. He said, Tony Blinken. He named

764
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: the United States Secretary of State because Admiral Mullen is

765
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: not an idiot, and he understands that the US and

766
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: and really only the US has the convening power with

767
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: these two powers that are involved in this war, to

768
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: actually get some sort of facilitation at the table. And

769
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, I think that this cannot be overstated. America

770
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: is the only country on Earth that has the capability

771
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: to compel Ukraine to the negotiating table because they literally

772
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: do not function as a polity without US. We pay

773
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: their bills and balance their budget. I don't think people

774
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: even understand that their entire economy and currency would collapse

775
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: without the United States giving the amount of economic assistance. Two,

776
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: their war effort is one hundred percent dependent on US.

777
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: Like in terms of overall military aid and materiel, it

778
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: all comes from US. So at that point you have

779
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: a tremendous say over the conflict. And I was really

780
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: hardened to hear Admiral Mullen say that because he has

781
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: actual cachet amongst the so called decision makers. I will say,

782
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: though there's a bit, there's always been wars over like

783
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: who has respectability and who doesn't, and we have to

784
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: be honest, Like his view is not very popular here

785
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: in Washington, but I'm starting to see a couple of

786
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: things break through. Actually, just this morning in the Financial Times,

787
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: a guy named Alexander Gabubev. He's a senior fellow at

788
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He came out with

789
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: the same thing, The risks of accellent escalation in the

790
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: Ukraine War are rising fast. No comprehensive settlement is possible,

791
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: but the US must start laying the groundwork for crisis diplomacy.

792
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: You said you saw Congressman Rocana, who I believe we

793
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: have on the show on Thursday, actually making similar noises,

794
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: which is also noteworthy that there would even be a

795
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: perception that there would be any space in the conversation

796
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: to say that at this point. Yeah, so, I think

797
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: that the tide is beginning to break for what we

798
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: have been saying here on the show for a long time.

799
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: But we also can overstate I'm talking about two voices

800
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: or three voices right in a sea of ten thousand Yeah,

801
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: rule Washington. Don't you ever forget there's more Ukrainian flags

802
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: in the city than there are America. You're absolutely one

803
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: hundred percent correct, though, but the initiative really does have

804
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: to come from the US. I mean, there's just no

805
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: other There's just no other way that this is ultimately

806
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: going to work out. I mean, we saw the way

807
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: that this happened. The last time there were any sort

808
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: of peace negotiations, the US and the UK basically said

809
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: now we're not down with this, and that was the

810
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: end of it. So if it doesn't come from the

811
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: US and from some sort of initiative from our side,

812
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: there is no possibility whatsoever. So I hope I hope

813
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: that Biden's little realizations about World War three and potential

814
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: nuclear armageddon maybe makes them a little more serious about

815
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: figuring out how we could get to that place, not

816
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: that that is an easy thing to figure out, how

817
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: to engineer whatsoever. We'll see Inshalla in the Arab world.

818
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: We have a lot of foreign policy news in the

819
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: show today. This was another really significant move that I

820
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure did not get overlooked as we,

821
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: of course have continued to focus on the possibility of

822
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: nuclear arm agedin which I would you dare say, is

823
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: an important focus place where I share to focus these days.

824
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 1: But the Biden administration making some significant news worth regards

825
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: to China and those crucial semiconductor technology. Let's go ahead

826
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: and put this tear sheet up on the screen from Bloomberg.

827
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: They sound no possibility of reconciliation. As US slams China chips,

828
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: the Biden administration implemented sweeping new restrictions, and the US

829
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: move hampers China's efforts to develop domestic technology. Okay, what

830
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: are we talking about here now? First of all, let

831
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: me say that according to all the analysts, the devil

832
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: is really in the details here over how this is

833
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: all implemented. However, the Biden administration on Friday announced sweeping

834
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: export controls on semiconductor technology to China. The idea is

835
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: to sort of cripple Beijing's access to those critical technology.

836
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: It's needed for a lot of things, but including sort

837
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: of defense and guided weapons. So that seems to be

838
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: but it is aimed at technology, experts said. The rules

839
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: appear to impose the broadest export controls issued in a decade.

840
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: This is per the New York Times. Similar to the

841
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: Trump administration's cracked down on the telecom giant Huawei, the

842
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: new rules are far wider in scope, affecting dozens of

843
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: Chinese firms, and unlike the Trump administration's approach, which was

844
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: a view this is the New York Times editorial is

845
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: aggressive but scattershot. That's probably fair characterization. The rules appear

846
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: to establish a more comprehensive policy that will stop cutting

847
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: edge exports to a range of Chinese technology companies and

848
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: cut off China's nascent ability to produce advanced chips. So

849
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: they have been the Chinese government has been really heavily

850
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: invested in building up their own semiconductor industry, but they

851
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: are still way behind the US, Taiwan and South Korea

852
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: and their ability to produce the most advanced chips in

853
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: fields like ai China is actually you know, war at

854
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: par with where we are, but in terms of semiconductor

855
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: chip production, they are apparently behind. This is also crucial

856
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,240
Speaker 1: because it's really sort of broad reaching. So even companies

857
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: that are overseas, like in Taiwan, for example, but rely

858
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: on US technology are also subject to these export controls.

859
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: The market is and again, you know, they add in

860
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: these potential loopholes where basically, like on a case by

861
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: case basis, they can issue exemptions. So that's why analysts

862
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: are saying, like the devil's in the details, and it

863
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: depends how this is all ultimately implemented. But the markets

864
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: are certainly reacting like this is a big deal and

865
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: like it's going to be enforced in quite an aggressive way.

866
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: Let's go and put this next piece up on the screen.

867
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys followed this yesterday. The

868
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: Nasdaq closed at a two year low on Monday, hurt

869
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: primarily by those slumping chip stocks. They say, this comes,

870
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, after the Biden administration announced those new export controls,

871
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: and the Nasdaq's losses for the year are now greater

872
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: than thirty two percent. After Monday's decline, the S and

873
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: P five hundred is off by twenty four percent. And

874
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: in terms of that, you know how much teeth this

875
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 1: is ultimately going to have? This the last piece here,

876
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: soa and I'll get your reaction. Taiwan has also signalled,

877
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: let's go and put this last piece up on the screen.

878
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 1: Taiwan has also signaled their chip firms are going to

879
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: follow these new US rules, which again apply to them

880
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: because they rely on some US technology. So interesting development. Yeah,

881
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the new gold has been for

882
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: a while. Frankly, this should have been policy for ten years,

883
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen years ago. The idea that it took

884
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: until twenty twenty two and the idea of the administrator

885
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: Trump administration didn't do it just shows you how laughable

886
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: they really were in the first place. It took Biden

887
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: also in nearly two years in office to get there.

888
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 1: So look, let's not let's not applaud anyone, but he's

889
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: got there. He got there. Yeah, exactly. I'm glad it's here. Unfortunately,

890
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: and I do not want to be the Debbie Downer.

891
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: Everything I have read so far, Crystal is that almost

892
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: all of this is ten to twenty years too late.

893
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: Here is the very simple truth. Taiwan Semiconductors is twenties

894
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: five years ahead of the entire global populace. These machines

895
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: and facilities are so sensitive. If a single human hair

896
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: gets in the wrong place, the entire thing will shut down. Also,

897
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: they work twenty four hours a day. There's a great

898
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,479
Speaker 1: interview with the tsmc CEO and they ask him a question.

899
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: It's translated, but they're like, hey, so why did you

900
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: beat America? And he's like, you people are lazy. He's like,

901
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: we work twenty four hours a day. He's like, we

902
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: have more people on eight hour shifts three times, the

903
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: facility never shuts down. He's like, when you outwork somebody double,

904
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: then you beat them. Very simple. Anyway, they are just

905
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: magicians essentially that have the proper supply workforce technology know how.

906
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: There's actually only a limited amount of executives in the

907
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 1: whole world who even know how to do this. So look,

908
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: I applaud the Chips Act, and I applaud this. The

909
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: reason why America and China are posturing over Taiwan is

910
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 1: because of TSMC's facility. And as much as I support

911
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: the fifty billion dollars in micron and all those other

912
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: new things that we're building here, we are over a

913
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: decade away from any capability of producing anything. I mean,

914
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: we're just want to be honest with people. Yeah, it's true.

915
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: It's baby steps that we've been taking. I mean, clearly,

916
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 1: this has been a concerted effort and focus of the bidenstration.

917
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: It works. Clearly, somebody in the administration gets that this

918
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: is a big issue. It's a big vulnerability for us,

919
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: and not just in terms of like military and defense

920
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: and those sorts of things, but in terms of like

921
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 1: electric vehicles and if that's something you care about and

922
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: like the future of you know, the climate, and that's

923
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: obviously a big push of the Biden administration as well.

924
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: This you know, you don't have that future if you

925
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: don't ultimately have the chips to facilitate it. So one

926
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: interesting thing, just a political note, JD. Vance and Tim

927
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: Ryan squared off in a big debate in Ohio last night.

928
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: I saw lots of clips flying around. Matt Stoler, of course,

929
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: one of our great partners here, was pointing out that

930
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: it is quite notable that both Vance and Tim Ryan

931
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: said they supported the Chips Act, Yes, which I think,

932
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, just given how hardened and partisan

933
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,479
Speaker 1: everything is, the fact that you have any Republican going

934
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: along with anything Biden has done shows you that there's

935
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: at least somewhat of a bipartisan recognition that this is

936
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: extremely important. Don't forget that Intel is opening that facility

937
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: on Ohio, so this is right. Twenty jobs is for that.

938
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: It's also a jobs issue on top of American security.

939
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: And I will say, look on JD. Like, I've known

940
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: the guy for a while and he does genuinely care

941
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: a lot about the chips issue. In particular. I think

942
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: the point that is very important to underscore is that

943
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: this is good, but the major geo strategic questions on

944
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: what happens in the event of a Taiwan invasion are

945
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: still unanswered and will not be answered now for a decade.

946
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 1: And it's interesting there's a lot of discussion right now

947
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: in Taiwan about essentially creating a mutually assured destruction on

948
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: the chips industry should they get invaded where there's blow

949
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: up the TSMC facility, And they're like, well, China's not

950
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 1: going to get it, but neither is the America. And look,

951
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is it's such a sensitive facility

952
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: in the first place that it's almost impossible. Ninety two

953
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: percent of the world's most advanced chips come from there.

954
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: And I think we should also all be honest, like,

955
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: you know this MacBook in front of me, where if

956
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: there was a shutdown a TSMC, this would be the

957
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: last one I'd be able to buy for probably seven years. iPhone.

958
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: Get ready, folks, and look at what's happening in Russia.

959
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: If conceivably the United States went to war with no TSMC,

960
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: it is very likely, Crystal that we would have to

961
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: basically dismantle all of our camera equipment and turn it

962
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: into the US government. I would I mean, think about

963
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: what happened in World War Two. You're talking about Russia's

964
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 1: how like pull them out of like watching I actually

965
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: looked into that story. It's not necessarily it has happened.

966
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: It's unclear, but the truth is that they are cannibalizing

967
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: some consumer electronics. Now, if we were to ever into

968
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: a war and they were no more TSMC, it is

969
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: very likely the US government would be like, everyone has

970
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: to turn in their consumer electronics in order to run

971
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: our mental systems off of Let's just be very real

972
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: about the vulnerability that we face in the global supply

973
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: chain right now, and why I mean, I do scourge

974
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: so many of these policy makers for what they've done

975
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: to us over the last two I feel on semiconductors

976
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: the way that if you are a rightful German should

977
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: feel about nuclear energy and about reliance on Russian gas.

978
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: I cannot believe you people put us in this let

979
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: us because that is the level of vulnerable. We just

980
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: don't feel it yet, because there hasn't been a crunch.

981
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: We've got a small taste. In twenty twenty one, our

982
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: car companies lost ten billion dollars in revenue because of

983
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: the chip shortage. Ten billion. That's you know, a lot,

984
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 1: but also not that much compared to what would happen

985
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: with a total shutdown of the supply chain. Yeah, I

986
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: mean it's yeah, it is that ultimately critical, and it's

987
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: part of why, you know, Polosi pull in her hawkish

988
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: bullshit with regards to Taiwan and all these people who

989
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: love to beat their test. I'm like, do you have

990
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: any idea what this would actually mean? Like if you

991
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: thought for five seconds about what this would mean for

992
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: the world, what it would mean for us, And the

993
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: answer obviously is no. Bing go. In broader economic news,

994
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 1: some interesting comments from our friend Jamie Diamond, who's really

995
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: actually been sounding the alarmed for a while about a

996
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: potential recession. I think previously he said they were preparing

997
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: for a hurricane. He is once again making some eyebrow

998
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: raising comments with regards to that. Let's take a listen.

999
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: It is going to happen, and I think the likely

1000
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: place you're going to see more of a crack and

1001
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit more of a panic is in

1002
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: credit markets. And it might be ETFs, it might be

1003
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: a country, it might be something to suspect if you

1004
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: make a list of all the prior crises you sitting here,

1005
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: we would not have predicted where they came from. Though

1006
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: I think you can predict it this time that probably

1007
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: will happen. And so I'd be if I was out

1008
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: there'd be very cautious. If you need money, go raise it.

1009
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: What about stock markets? Where do you see the truugh

1010
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: for the S and P five hundred? Oh, I don't know.

1011
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: It may have a way to go. I mean, it

1012
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: really depends that soft landing hard landing thing, and says

1013
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that. It's hard for

1014
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: me to answer that, but it could it could be

1015
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 1: another easy twenty percent. So a couple interesting things there.

1016
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, he just says, of a recession,

1017
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 1: it is going to happen, like very definitively. I mean, listen,

1018
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 1: as we've discussed by some metrics were already in a recession,

1019
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: as much as the Biden administration wanted to workshop that

1020
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: a little bit and smove that over. And he also

1021
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: points to actually before he says and that clip picks

1022
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: up and says like it is going to happen. He

1023
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: points to just all the signs that you're seeing in

1024
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: the market of you know, the IPOs and this happens,

1025
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: and that happens, and you know, ultimately you see kind

1026
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: of the bottom fallout. So he also talks about, you know,

1027
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 1: we haven't come anywhere near the trough in terms of

1028
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: the stock market. So always noteworthy when you see these

1029
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 1: guys who listen. They have many, many faults, but they

1030
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,959
Speaker 1: are paid and make a lot of money to watch

1031
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: and figure out what market conditions are ultimately going to be.

1032
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: And he's saying very definitively that we are headed for

1033
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: that hard landing that the FED has been claiming to

1034
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: try to want to avoid. I think there's just no

1035
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: doubt about it. You know, I've been reading a lot.

1036
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 1: I read an analysis this morning also from the Financial Times,

1037
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: just to see what people are saying in Europe, and

1038
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: they're like, look, the FED is making it so that

1039
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: let's put this next one up there on the screen,

1040
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 1: just to underscore this that they are on track right

1041
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: now for another large interest rate hike after the job

1042
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 1: support of last week. Every basically every economy right now

1043
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: in the world is required to effectively also raise their

1044
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,919
Speaker 1: rates to prevent their currencies from slumping against the dollar.

1045
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: Because the dollar is king. That makes it so that

1046
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 1: the Fed actions can tip Europe into well, frankly further

1047
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 1: into recession. Here's the thing. Europe is already in a recession.

1048
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: They can fake it all they want, but the destruction

1049
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: of energy prices, of supply and the massive shock that

1050
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: they're experiencing, no question right now that they're in a

1051
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: recession us. I mean technically probably, it's obviously wonky. I

1052
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: would just say things are bad, and that in general,

1053
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: whether it's technical or not, it's a bad situation from

1054
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 1: that point forward. Pushing us further into that bad situation

1055
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: makes it undeniable to have a recession, and that the

1056
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: global conflagration on all of this is that you kind

1057
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: of have a spinning effect. So we raise our interest

1058
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,720
Speaker 1: rates and the central banks in Europe raise their interest rates,

1059
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: and then the dollar has all of this chaos, which

1060
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: affects our trade markets, our exports. On top of that,

1061
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: you input and put you have demand shock basically from

1062
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: destruction of demand via the Federal reserve, and you have

1063
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: all these massive apply shocks coming in the energy markets.

1064
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: It's just a recipe for disaster, yeah, and for chaos

1065
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 1: essentially in the economy, and we really haven't seen this

1066
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 1: like global all at one time tightening that's happening right

1067
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 1: now that you're referring to, or it's not just the FED,

1068
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: it's central banks around the world that are all you know,

1069
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: and it is partly related to what we're doing because

1070
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: we're effectively when we're hiking rates, we're effectively exporting our

1071
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: inflation around the world. I mean, that's kind of a

1072
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: simplistic way to think about it, but it's making things

1073
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,959
Speaker 1: difficult for European countries, also making things very difficult for

1074
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: Global South countries that have dollars denominated debt, and then

1075
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, once their currency is weaker, it costs more

1076
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 1: for them to be able to service that debt, so

1077
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: it can contribute to those spiraling crises. And those things,

1078
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: of course don't stay overseas, so that's an added risk

1079
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,919
Speaker 1: for us. Yet there is no sign that the FED

1080
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: is intending to slow down whatsoever, as you indicated, you know,

1081
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: we just had this like fairly solid jobs report. Employers

1082
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: added two hundred sixty thre three thousand workers in September.

1083
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: You might think that was good news. When I look

1084
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: at that, I'm like, oh, that's good. We still are

1085
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: adding you know, hundreds of thousands of jobs and not

1086
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: going backwards. But the FED perversely looks at that as

1087
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 1: bad news because they want to crush the labor market

1088
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: and they want to stop new job creation and they

1089
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: want to lower wages. That is part of their direct

1090
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: goal in what they're doing here. And so when they

1091
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: look at those numbers, you know, indications are that they'll

1092
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: make a fourth increase of point seventy five points at

1093
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: their November first and second meeting. They are saying that now,

1094
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: you know, after that, meaning they'll debate how far they

1095
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: want to go at the next meeting. But you know,

1096
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 1: it's it's incredibly dicey territory that you have such aggressive

1097
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: rate hikes from the FED with the spoken stated goal

1098
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: of we basically want to screw over workers, and they

1099
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: continue to move in this, you know, very very aggressive direction,

1100
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: and you know, see these numbers and think that this

1101
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: is a reason to keep going. You're increasingly hearing voices saying, like,

1102
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: m you all might be going too far with this,

1103
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: And it's interesting that those voices have also started to

1104
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: sneak into some mainstream coverage. I think that from what

1105
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: I've read and I read a pretty decent analysis yesterday

1106
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: from the Journal The FAT just doesn't care. They look.

1107
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,439
Speaker 1: I think we should also not underestimate it. You and I.

1108
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: You know, we have a nice we have a big show,

1109
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: but we do not have cachet. And like official economic

1110
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: thinking correct, those people rule the world. The FAT is

1111
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: unaccountable and there are by definition independent. Per their philosophy

1112
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: of the economy, things are going exactly as planned. Their

1113
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: entire philosophy is to divorce themselves from the actual like

1114
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: lived experiences of people's lives, specifically in order to have

1115
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: that like grandiose you know, the thumb on the scale,

1116
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 1: managing up and down and away from politics, kind of

1117
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 1: the philosophy invented by Paul Volker. So and there's a

1118
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: there's a mono ideology there too. It's not like you

1119
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: talk about the hawks that it does at the FED,

1120
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 1: they're all on board with this same policy right now.

1121
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 1: So there really is a very little difference between them.

1122
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: Like we can, we can moan till the cows come home,

1123
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: but like it's not going to do very much and

1124
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: until Here's the other problem, which is that by taking

1125
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: this out of the realm of politics, you know, we

1126
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: really do make it so that Americans don't really understand

1127
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: that anything about the FED, and they frankly want it

1128
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: that way. They don't want you to have debates like

1129
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: monetary policy. We used to have them. I have one

1130
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: of my favorite posters behind me. Yeah, you can see

1131
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: it over my shoulder. That's from William Jennings Bryan, you know,

1132
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: in the silver the free silver movement in the nineteen hundred,

1133
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: this was a real thing that farmers used to understand

1134
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: the direct impact on them all of the financialization of

1135
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: our economy today is such that it's like be a

1136
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: good boy, buyer goods, don't ask quite. It's a compli.

1137
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: It's a direct consequence of neoliberalism, you know. It's the

1138
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: idea that like, you know, we're going to let the

1139
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: markets aside and we're going to let the experts handle

1140
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: it and you don't need to worry about it. And

1141
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: so it's no accident that Alan Greenspan was really the

1142
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: one that sort of like innovated in this elitist direction

1143
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: of the FED, and they would talk about FED speak

1144
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: where it's like you need a freakin decoder ring and

1145
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: a PhD to understand what the hell this guy is

1146
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: trying to say, like this was all very very intentional.

1147
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: And over the past decade there has been, you know,

1148
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: post financial crash, there's been some of the most radical

1149
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: experimentation going on at the FED that we have ever

1150
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: had in our nation's history. And so it's also not

1151
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: an accident that during that time of completely radical experimentation

1152
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: that there also is you know, I need to sort

1153
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: of like tell the population, don't worry about it, We

1154
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 1: got it nothing to see here, because they don't want

1155
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: to really open themselves up to that debate and understanding

1156
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: of what was going on. So in some ways we're

1157
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: also at a place where those chickens are coming home

1158
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: to roost in terms of the end of that period

1159
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: of truly radical FED intervention. So anyway, it's something that

1160
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: we've really made a concerted effort to try to cover

1161
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: and decode here for everyone, because it's ultimately really not

1162
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,959
Speaker 1: that complicated end. Anyone can understand what's going on here,

1163
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,479
Speaker 1: and there are few things that directly impact your life

1164
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: as much as what the FED is deciding to do

1165
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: at each of these meetings. Okay, more gigantic foreign policy

1166
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: news stunning something something I honestly thought I would never see.

1167
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: But it's interesting the rationale here. So Senate Foreign Relations

1168
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: Committee chairman, Senator Democratic Senator Bob Menendez now saying, let's

1169
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: go ahead and put this up on the screen, that

1170
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: the US must immediately freeze all aspects of our cooperation

1171
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: with Saudi Arabia, including any arm sales and security cooperation,

1172
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: beyond what is absolutely necessary to defend US personnel and

1173
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: interest So it does put a little bit of a

1174
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 1: loophole in there, you know, how you define what is

1175
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: absolutely necessary to defend US personnel and interests. But there's

1176
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. And let's go ahead and put

1177
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: this full statement up on the screen so we can

1178
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: see it. This is a stunning shift in the relationship

1179
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: between the US and Saudi He says, I I want

1180
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: to read through this because his rationale here is important.

1181
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 1: This comes in the wake of course, of Russia's attacks

1182
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: on Ukraine, and he says, I'm horrified by Russia's depraved

1183
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,959
Speaker 1: and desperate escalation against civilian infrastructure across Ukraine, including in Kiev.

1184
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: I pledged to use all means of my disposal to

1185
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: accelerate support for the people of Ukraine and to starve

1186
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: Russia's war machine. That is why I must also speak

1187
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: out against the government of Saudi Arabia's recent decision to

1188
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: help underwrite Putin's war through the OPEC plus cartel. There's

1189
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: no room to play both sides. The Kingdom of Saudi

1190
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: Arabia chose in a terrible decision driven by economic self interest.

1191
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: And that's when he goes on to say the US

1192
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,959
Speaker 1: must immediately freeze all aspects, and he says I will

1193
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: not greenlight any cooperation with Riyad until the Kingdom reassesses

1194
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: its position with respect to the war in Ukraine. Enough

1195
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: is enough. So all of this comes after, as we

1196
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: covered here, OPEK plus had their meeting. They said we're

1197
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: going to cut production significantly. That's great for Saudi Arabia's

1198
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: bottom line, it's great for the Russia's bottom line, you know,

1199
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: keeping oil prices elevated and high. It's bad for US,

1200
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: it's fled for the world. This also comes on the

1201
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: heel as a Biden administration trying to extend an oll

1202
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: A branch and going a meeting with them sort of

1203
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: on bended knee. Obviously that didn't work. But I also

1204
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: think it's noteworthy Sager, what this comes in reaction to

1205
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's not about Jamal Kashogi and human rights.

1206
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: It's not about the atrocities they committed in Yemen, creating

1207
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: the worst humanitarian catastrophe on the entire planet. It's not

1208
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: about what they're doing to our own domestic population in

1209
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: terms of screwing us over with gas, where it's not

1210
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: even about like, well, it might be partly about the

1211
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: political predicament that he is putting Biden in. That they're

1212
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: putting Biden in in terms of like putting the screws

1213
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: gym before the midterm, it's because they got crosswise of

1214
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: his you know, interest in terms of the Ukrainian war effort.

1215
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 1: So I do think that that's interesting. I mean, look,

1216
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: I just generally think that running you're never going to

1217
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 1: play the human rights game whenever you're buying oil. Let's

1218
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: just all be real, yep, So we might as well

1219
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: just resort to hard power interest. So like, it's this

1220
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: working out for us, this relationship obviously, No, Nope, you're

1221
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: going to screw us on gas at the same time

1222
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 1: that you're buying our weapons. Well, that seems ridiculous. You know,

1223
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: I have some qualms the fact that it's all centered

1224
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: on Ukraine. But I think the reality too is the

1225
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 1: Saudis and the UAE. They basically are going to say,

1226
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: we don't believe you, Bob Menendez. So it is true,

1227
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 1: Bob Menendez does have the capability in order to hold

1228
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: up all weapons sales. Here's the issue. He's a Democrat.

1229
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: Republicans are probably going to be back in power, likely

1230
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: what at least a fiftieth percentile chance of doing so

1231
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: in a couple of months. You really think they are

1232
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: going to hold up Saudi weapon sales. They're just as

1233
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: bought as everybody else. Similarly, actually I would say more bought. Yeah, sure,

1234
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: And then that's Jared Kushner, Okay, and then put also

1235
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: on top of this, how are the people in the

1236
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 1: Gulf reacting? They're laughing at you. They don't believe you. Look,

1237
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: the UAE president is visiting Russia today, at one week

1238
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: after voting against the United States in OPEC plus, directly

1239
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: contravening the interests and ask of Anthony Blincoln. He is

1240
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:09,959
Speaker 1: not visiting America. He is visiting Russia to go meet

1241
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 1: with Putin. Why to celebrate the United Oil Union or whatever,

1242
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: and basically stick a middle finger up to Washington and

1243
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: just be like, yeah, I don't believe you. Like, at

1244
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: the end of the day, we have most of you

1245
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: people bought and paid for. We're gonna do whatever's good

1246
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: for us. And there's no question this is good for

1247
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:28,479
Speaker 1: the UAE and for Saudi Arabia, no question. They're making

1248
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 1: a ton of money. They are selling oil black market,

1249
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: our black market Russian oil to the you know, hundreds

1250
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: of billions of or hundreds of millions of dollars, relabeling

1251
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: barrels and kind of mixing it with their infrastructure. A

1252
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: lot of Russian money, from what I have read, has

1253
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 1: fled to the Dubai, the Dubai banking SYSTM. Dubai is

1254
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: like the you know, the banking capital of terrorists and

1255
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: Russians and all if you ever been there, Like it's

1256
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 1: a crazy place. But my point is that this has

1257
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 1: been a great thing for their economies, and they know

1258
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, Washington will come

1259
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 1: to their not only their defense, but will probably buckle

1260
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: and sell them the weapons. Anyway, in the long run,

1261
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: they have this whole town wired so that a single

1262
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: senator's objection is probably just not going to do anything.

1263
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: But it is noteworthy, nonetheless, and we should celebrate it. Yeah,

1264
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: somebody is going to come out well say it. And

1265
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,479
Speaker 1: he's not just a single senator, right, He's a chair

1266
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and he's the guy who can

1267
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: veto any and all arm sales. So it does have

1268
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,439
Speaker 1: a lot more teeth and a lot more credibility when

1269
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 1: it comes from Bob Menendez versus when it comes from

1270
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: basically anyone else. I mean, the only other person who

1271
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: would be as significant in terms of his words here

1272
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: would be the President himself. So yeah, it's a coin flip.

1273
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: I would say at this point whether Democrats hold onto

1274
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: the Senate and Menendez holds on to this position. But

1275
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, for my entire life, there has been a

1276
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: nearly lockstep relationship between both parties in the US and

1277
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 1: the Saudi government. And the fact that you have now

1278
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 1: a significant divide among a you know, mainstream and fairly

1279
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 1: hawkish demgrat here in Menendez, who you know, is this

1280
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 1: guy's very interested in those sort of like hard power relationships,

1281
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: and he's not a particularly noble character. The fact that

1282
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: someone like him is now saying that's it, We're done,

1283
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: very very noteworthy and a remarkable departure from the way

1284
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: things have been for a long long time. I totally agree.

1285
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 1: All right, we wanted to bring you an update on

1286
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 1: a story that I think is really important and which

1287
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: has been you know, it has actually gotten a little

1288
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 1: bit of mainstream coverage but mostly kind of falls under

1289
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 1: the radar, and I think it's an important one to

1290
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 1: highlight here. So let's go and put this up on

1291
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 1: the screen. This has been reported out by the Intercept.

1292
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: They've done a good job in covering this trial of

1293
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: animal rights activists. Here's the headline. They say activists acquitted

1294
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: in trial for taking piglets from Smithfield Foods, the nation's

1295
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: largest pork producer, argued the removal of two sick piglets

1296
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: was a case of theft and burglar, and this activist

1297
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: organization called Direct Action Everywhere, called it a rescue. So

1298
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: let me give you the backstory here. Basically, you have

1299
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: this group Direct Action Everywhere, and they take really quite

1300
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: courageous actions, direct actions, as the name implies, to expose

1301
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: the horrors of factory farms. In particular, they were able

1302
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: they gained access to this farm in Utah is a

1303
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: pig farm where you had the female pigs the sows

1304
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: put into these crates that are so small they can't

1305
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: even move or turn around. Okay, this is after they

1306
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: supposedly were getting rid of these crits, and they weren't

1307
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 1: doing that anymore. While they go into this farm and

1308
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: all of the female pigs are in these types of crates.

1309
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 1: But it gets so much worse. The horrors of this place,

1310
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: which they were able to video and document, are so extreme.

1311
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: You had dead piglets piled up behind the mothers. You

1312
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: had mothers and just sit there, you know, rotting and

1313
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 1: live ones there amongst their dead littermates. You had mothers

1314
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 1: whose teats were ripped apart in bleeding because they were

1315
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: unable to produce enough milk. And you have these starving

1316
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 1: piglets trying to nurse and suckle. I mean, just absolutely disgusting, filthy, horrific,

1317
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 1: inhumane things that were happening there that they were able

1318
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: to document. So as part of this action, they saw

1319
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: these two piglets that were close to death, dramatically underweight,

1320
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 1: they're amidst their dead siblings, and they decided they were

1321
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: going to rescue these two piglets. Now for Smithfield Farms,

1322
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 1: and this, you know, this particular farm is part of

1323
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:42,920
Speaker 1: the larger Smithfield brand, which side note is now owned

1324
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: by China. Interesting part of the story, but that's another

1325
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: story for another day. So they ordinarily, you know, they

1326
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 1: have apparently a lot of these dead piglets, which is

1327
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 1: horrifying in and of itself, and they dispose them and

1328
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 1: they have no commercial value to them. But they wanted

1329
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: to argue that this was a theft and burglary and

1330
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: that these activists should be charged and they should be

1331
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: thrown in prison for rescuing the two piglets that have

1332
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: zero commercial value ultimately to Smithfield Farms. The activist said, no,

1333
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 1: this is like if you have a dog in a

1334
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 1: hot car that is in distress and you go save it.

1335
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: That's what this is akin to. And their strategy here

1336
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,599
Speaker 1: is actually to sort of provoke these legal conflicts so

1337
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: that they can establish by precedent that there is what

1338
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 1: they call a right to rescue, where if you see

1339
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,840
Speaker 1: these animals that are in clear distress and on the

1340
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 1: verge of death, you are actually allowed to rescue them

1341
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 1: from this facility. And as the intersect points out here,

1342
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: ultimately they were victorious. Now the crazy thing Also about

1343
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 1: this story is the fact that the amount of federal

1344
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: government resources that were dedicated to returning these two piglets

1345
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: across state lines. You had multiple FBI agents on this.

1346
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:01,640
Speaker 1: I mean, think of all of the crime and the

1347
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 1: things that are going on in the country, and the

1348
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: federal government was devoting massive resources to tracking down these

1349
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 1: piglets and DNA testing them and taking this thing to trial.

1350
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 1: Why well, because you know, they're looking out for the

1351
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: interests of big business, of the factory farm industry, and

1352
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:23,440
Speaker 1: so that's why they care. Even in Smithfield Farms estimations

1353
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: even at maximum they said these pigs were worth like

1354
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 1: forty dollars. And you have these huge FBI federal government

1355
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 1: resources being spent on this case. So there's a lot

1356
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: of elements here. I mean, the creativity and I think

1357
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: the bravery of the tactics, the novel like legal interpretations,

1358
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: and the fact that they will to win in court

1359
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 1: in Utah, a very conservative place, of course. And then

1360
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:48,879
Speaker 1: the fact that you have the federal government just siding

1361
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 1: with big business in such an overt and egregious way

1362
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 1: makes it, I think a really interesting and revealing story

1363
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 1: about the way the country works. Yeah, and we actually

1364
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: interviewed some of the people involved, So let's go into

1365
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 1: to listen to our old interview. As to my prosecution,

1366
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: I was charged with multiple charges felony burglary charge for

1367
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: at one point I removed a sick, dying piglet it

1368
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: was of no value to this company, and I faced

1369
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: up to five years in prison for that. I was

1370
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 1: also charged under an AGGAG law. Yeah, and as I mentioned,

1371
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 1: there was an FBI investigation. At one point they approached

1372
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:29,879
Speaker 1: this truck driver who came to us and they threatened

1373
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: to prosecute him. Aggag laws are completely insane. And you

1374
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:36,760
Speaker 1: know that also just highlights like the collusion between big

1375
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: food and specifically the factory farming industry and the state

1376
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:43,559
Speaker 1: have them basically be their goon enforcers to cover up

1377
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 1: what our whole food supply chain is. I mean just think,

1378
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 1: look factory farming. You could debate it for a long time,

1379
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 1: but let's all just be real about what it is

1380
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 1: and what's going on here. Yeah, where does your food

1381
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: come from? A lot of people should know it doesn't

1382
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 1: just magically appear in the grocery store. And here's what

1383
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: I think is important as well, Like these they're called

1384
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 1: I think gestational creates. These sows are being kept in

1385
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 1: which are so unbelievably like cruel and tortuous for all,

1386
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 1: Like the moms and the babies that are involved. Those

1387
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 1: have been banned in a lot of countries. They've been

1388
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,759
Speaker 1: banned in some states as well. So not all factory

1389
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:20,879
Speaker 1: farming is created equal. There are more and less humane

1390
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: ways that you can go about this. So you know,

1391
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: sometimes it feels impossible in these sorts of situations to

1392
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:28,680
Speaker 1: make any sort of positive change because you're like, well,

1393
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 1: some people are going to meet it's going to be

1394
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 1: an ugly process, like ultimately, you know, it's going to

1395
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 1: be horrible for the animals that are involved. But there

1396
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 1: are better and worse ways that this can be done.

1397
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:42,879
Speaker 1: Smithfield had said they were getting rid of these crates.

1398
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 1: They clearly had not done that, and these activists were

1399
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 1: very courageous and ultimately exposing what was going on here

1400
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: just on the government piece of this to underscore some

1401
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 1: of what we were saying. This is from the Intercept article.

1402
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 1: One of the activists involved here said that approximately eight

1403
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:04,679
Speaker 1: FBI agents had been on this case. Now, during the trial,

1404
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: one of the activists pressed the government on whether any

1405
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: other theft cases involving less than one hundred dollars worth

1406
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: of property had multiple FBI agents working on them. The

1407
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 1: government acknowledged they could not think of a single one

1408
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:26,759
Speaker 1: in which the FBI had devoted eight agents to tracking

1409
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 1: down goods worth less than one hundred dollars at best.

1410
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: And ultimately, you know, what the jury decided was that

1411
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: these were of zero commercial value to Smithfield because these

1412
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: picklists were going to die and they were just going

1413
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 1: to get tossed in the dumpsters. So anyway, government, you know,

1414
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: shilling for big business as per usual, and a rare

1415
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: win for the activists who took this to trial and

1416
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 1: really exposed something important here. All right, Sagar, are you

1417
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 1: looking at well? One of the problems with the ten

1418
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,840
Speaker 1: poll news events like nuclear war or Ukraine, by definition,

1419
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 1: they have the biggest stakes, they need the most attention,

1420
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 1: But of course many other stories are also important, not

1421
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 1: only immediately but in what they portend for the future.

1422
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 1: In fact, you'll recall, one of the biggest stories in

1423
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: the world before the Russian invasion of Ukraine was a

1424
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:15,800
Speaker 1: situation taking place north of our border in Canada where

1425
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 1: anti COVID restriction protesters in Canada were experiencing wholesale financial

1426
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: deplatforming by a nation state and tech companies. Obviously, the

1427
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: world turned its head away, but as we said at

1428
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: the time, those moves they can't just be undone. When

1429
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 1: the Canadian government show that it will freeze bank accounts,

1430
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:35,600
Speaker 1: seize assets with impunity, and even target cryptocurrency donations to

1431
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: a political cause that it simply doesn't like, it was

1432
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 1: a watershed moment of just how free much of a

1433
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 1: non Western US really is. And while perhaps the same

1434
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 1: thing may not happen here in America, you may still

1435
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 1: at least have the First Amendment. In the US we

1436
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 1: have a similarly pernicious problem. Though we may fear the

1437
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 1: state less, but we must fear the big corporations more.

1438
01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 1: We have watched in recent months as figures like Andrew

1439
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: Tate or the website Kiwi Farms have been effectively disappeared

1440
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 1: and on personed from the Internet as we know it

1441
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: at the behest of cancelation campaigns by questionable activists. The

1442
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 1: precedents that we have set are clear. If you can

1443
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 1: get enough whiny journalists on Twitter who are all effectively

1444
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 1: left wing activists, then you can set Internet policy for

1445
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:23,839
Speaker 1: the entire Western world. Yet, as crazy as it sounds,

1446
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 1: that type of censorship is not even the one that

1447
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 1: I am the most worried about. Speech obviously is a

1448
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 1: fundamental right, don't get me wrong. But as the crowd

1449
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: who likes to claim cancel culture isn't real often says,

1450
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 1: if you can still make a living and existent society

1451
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 1: after supposedly being canceled, then you aren't really canceled. So

1452
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 1: full cancelation looks like what Canada did to those truckers,

1453
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: or how China wields its social credit score system. If

1454
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 1: you piss off the regime they can't, then you can't

1455
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: even make or send people money. Here in the last

1456
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 1: forty eight hours, we've seen a small glimpse of what

1457
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,799
Speaker 1: that might look like for US. PayPal, the online payments

1458
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: juggernaut and owner of the commonly used apps Venmo, published

1459
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 1: a new terms of service over the weekend that said

1460
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 1: that service reserves the right so Levy finds up to

1461
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:13,639
Speaker 1: twenty five hundred dollars for violating, including quote sending, posting,

1462
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 1: or publication of any messages or content or materials that

1463
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 1: promote misinformation. Yikes. As we all know, misinformation is whatever

1464
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 1: the establishment de size is inconvenient for them. The two

1465
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: classic examples of the last two years are the Hunter

1466
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: Biden laptop story, censored for being allegedly misinformation after turning

1467
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 1: out to be one hundred percent true, and then the

1468
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 1: lap leak theory, which was considered outright misinformation until it

1469
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 1: too was proven to be holot certainly true. The point

1470
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,680
Speaker 1: is penalizing people for what might be inconvenient or unpopular

1471
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 1: is now what it means to censor misinformation, in which case,

1472
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:53,879
Speaker 1: financially penalizing them is patently insane now. Interestingly enough, PayPal

1473
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 1: did reverse course after people began to take notice of

1474
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: this and their update. They terminated their PayPal accounts. In response,

1475
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 1: the company came out and said though that its misinformation

1476
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 1: policy was quote posted in error and claimed, quote PayPal

1477
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 1: is not finding people for misinformation. That language was never

1478
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:13,799
Speaker 1: intended to be inserted in our policy. Yet, as PayPal

1479
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 1: should know, the Internet lives forever, their claim that it

1480
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 1: was inserted in error is absurd. A random Twitter slouth

1481
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 1: immediately pointed out they uploaded that new terms of service

1482
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 1: to their website on September twenty seven to twenty twenty two,

1483
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 1: which was including in the language and inserted the date

1484
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 1: that was supposed to go into effect on November three.

1485
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: In fact, metadata from the document pulled by said sleuth

1486
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: shows that the document has been worked on and updated

1487
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 1: constantly by senior staff since early September. In other words,

1488
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: something doesn't quite track with a PayPal explanation. In fact,

1489
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 1: the only thing that does track is a company that

1490
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:48,559
Speaker 1: appears terrified to be caught, who not only aggressively claimed

1491
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 1: they didn't mean what their terms of service said, but

1492
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,719
Speaker 1: then suffered major consequences on their stock price. The stock

1493
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 1: fell a full six percent on the backlash alone yesterday,

1494
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: investors noting that the active cancelations of the service and

1495
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 1: bad press were heard the company bottom line. But look closer,

1496
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:04,680
Speaker 1: and it's not the David and Goliath story that some

1497
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: people are making out to be. The truth is PayPal

1498
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: really only reversed course because Elon Musk, who literally founded

1499
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 1: the company, got involved along with David Marcus, their former president.

1500
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:17,120
Speaker 1: In other words, it wasn't until the richest person on

1501
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 1: the planet spoke out about the company that he literally

1502
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: founded did they actually come out in reverse course. The

1503
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 1: actual users canceling and raising a stink on Twitter didn't

1504
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 1: really penetrate the elite discourse. So if you're banking on

1505
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 1: your war against censorship to rely on the whims of

1506
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, I got bad news for how that's going

1507
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 1: to go in the future. Furthermore, if you take a

1508
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:38,719
Speaker 1: look at the rest of PayPal's policies, it still gives

1509
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: them the ability to find users twenty five hundred dollars

1510
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 1: if they quote promote hate, violence, racial or other forms

1511
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:47,880
Speaker 1: of intolerance. Given the way that language is used by

1512
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 1: the corporate execus these days, it's obvious they can still

1513
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: find you if they want to, which belies the point

1514
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 1: that we started with in this country, financially deep platforming,

1515
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:58,759
Speaker 1: it may not necessarily happen at the hands of the state,

1516
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:02,000
Speaker 1: but instead by ing force of this ruling ideology. And

1517
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 1: while PayPal isn't the same as a bank account, it

1518
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: comes pretty close to a necessary financial infrastructure for a

1519
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 1: lot of people. Ten years ago, it wasn't even a

1520
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:13,480
Speaker 1: question that these systems would be vulnerable to debates about censorship,

1521
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 1: and it underscores that censorship in the West and in

1522
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,439
Speaker 1: the United States is moving at a dizzying degree. It

1523
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:22,680
Speaker 1: started out with deeplatforming, users. Then it moved on to

1524
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 1: platforms themselves like Parlor. Then it went to deplatforming users

1525
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 1: at the same time across multiple platforms, now moving in

1526
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:33,719
Speaker 1: the direction of doing all of the above while also

1527
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: cutting off people's ability to even make money or pay people.

1528
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: This is taking it to an entire new level, one

1529
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 1: that exists today really only in communist China, which after all,

1530
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: is the envy of real authoritarians. And it's why we

1531
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 1: need to resist this troubling turn as hard as we can,

1532
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: because the speed of the campaign has shows us if

1533
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: we start, if we start and sit by while these

1534
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 1: things move so quickly, you may never have a chance

1535
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:01,840
Speaker 1: to actually speak out. And I think that's the crazy part,

1536
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 1: which is that look the only reverse and if you

1537
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,559
Speaker 1: want to hear my reaction to Cyber's monologue, become a

1538
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:12,640
Speaker 1: premium subscriber today at breakingpoints dot com, Crystal, what are

1539
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:14,639
Speaker 1: you taking a look at? Well, guys, we are less

1540
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 1: than one month out from the midterm elections now and

1541
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 1: the landscape has increasingly come into focus. Now in some

1542
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 1: ways it has a certain logic to it. Democrats are

1543
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly running on abortion. That is an issue of course

1544
01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 1: where they have a huge and commanding lead. Republicans are

1545
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly running on crime, an issue where they also have

1546
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 1: a large and commanding lead. We talked to Kyle Condick

1547
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:38,200
Speaker 1: yesterday who watched hours of mid term election ads so

1548
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:40,680
Speaker 1: that you don't have to, and he found an overwhelming

1549
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 1: focus on these two topics to the near exclusion of

1550
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: everything else. Now, crime and abortion do seem to have

1551
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 1: some salients with the public. Democrats were able to short

1552
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 1: circuit a coming red wave of epic proportions by seizing

1553
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 1: on the overturning of Roe versus Weight. Republicans have been

1554
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,679
Speaker 1: able to regain some of their ground regain some momentum

1555
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: in recent weeks by leaning hard into crime as part

1556
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 1: of a backlash that George Floyd protests and calls to

1557
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 1: defund the police. But on another level, it all looks

1558
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 1: kind of insane because no one is actually running on

1559
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:12,519
Speaker 1: the issue that voters tell polsters over and over and

1560
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:15,640
Speaker 1: over again is actually the most important to them. That

1561
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 1: would be the economy. Now Here are the numbers. They're

1562
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,200
Speaker 1: visualized quite well by p research. You can take a

1563
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:22,800
Speaker 1: look at this at the very top, that line that

1564
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 1: you see there standing alone, that is voters overwhelmingly saying

1565
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: the economy is very important to their midterm vote. Now,

1566
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:33,120
Speaker 1: those numbers up at the top are essentially unchanged from

1567
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:35,679
Speaker 1: March through the summer, with nearly eighty percent of voters

1568
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 1: saying the economy is key to winning them over. Below

1569
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 1: that you see a whole cluster of a bunch of

1570
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 1: different issues. You've got post stobs with Democrats leaning into abortion,

1571
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: that issue salience has spiked, same with crime, which is

1572
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 1: seen to jump and interest as Republicans and their media

1573
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:52,599
Speaker 1: apparatus have increasingly focused in on that issue. But both

1574
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:57,680
Speaker 1: abortion and crime still completely dwarfed by concerns about the economy,

1575
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 1: And of course that makes a lot of sense. The

1576
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:03,520
Speaker 1: Fed is determined to crush wages, determined to spike unemployment,

1577
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: Gas prices are ticking back up as opet pluses intituted

1578
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:10,479
Speaker 1: a new production cut, and CNBC is highlighting new signs

1579
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:12,639
Speaker 1: that all of this stress and strain is in fact

1580
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:15,719
Speaker 1: making it very difficult for Americans to make ends meet.

1581
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:18,600
Speaker 1: New data from lending Tree shows that one third of

1582
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,000
Speaker 1: Americans failed to pay a bill in the last six months.

1583
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 1: Sixty one percent of those said it was because they

1584
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 1: simply didn't have the money. Most of those who fell

1585
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 1: behind on a bill said they failed to pay a utility,

1586
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:31,200
Speaker 1: credit card, cable, or internet bill. As a Lending Tree

1587
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 1: analyst put it, quote, life is getting more expensive by

1588
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 1: the day, and it's shrinking. Americans already tiny financial march

1589
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:41,919
Speaker 1: and for air down to zero. Now, you might think

1590
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:44,519
Speaker 1: that one of our two major parties might see this

1591
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:47,560
Speaker 1: pain an uncertainty and offer some sort of an affirmative

1592
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 1: agenda that would help ease the burden for working people. Sure, Republicans,

1593
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:53,720
Speaker 1: they'll inveigh against inflation and cable news hits, but they've

1594
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 1: offered literally nothing in terms of actual solutions, and the

1595
01:21:57,280 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 1: vacuousness of this message apparently led to it falling flat

1596
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,360
Speaker 1: with voters, which is why they switch focus leaning in

1597
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 1: recent weeks into visceral ads about crime to try to

1598
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:08,400
Speaker 1: regain the upper hand. As far as Democrats go, they

1599
01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 1: just don't seem to talk about the economy really at all,

1600
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: even immediately memory holding the big economic program Biden just

1601
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 1: announce weeks ago, which was to cancel large amounts of

1602
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 1: student debt. Now, this landscape of neither party promising anything

1603
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 1: on the economy by default is going to benefit Republicans.

1604
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: People are struggling, they're understandably going to blame the party

1605
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 1: that is in power. So really the onus is on

1606
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:31,799
Speaker 1: the Democrats to offer some compelling solutions for working class

1607
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:35,920
Speaker 1: paind this looming political disaster where Democrats de fact to

1608
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,760
Speaker 1: give Republicans the upper hand on the economy again. The

1609
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 1: number one issue is when exasperated Bernie Sanders is now

1610
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:45,760
Speaker 1: calling out his Democratic colleagues for their single minded obsession

1611
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: on abortion and a new op ed for The Guardian,

1612
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 1: Sanders writs, in part quote, as we enter the final

1613
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:53,680
Speaker 1: weeks of the twenty twenty two mid term elections, I

1614
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 1: am alarmed to hear the advice that many Democratic candidates

1615
01:22:56,600 --> 01:22:59,639
Speaker 1: are getting from establishment consultants and directors of well funded

1616
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:03,919
Speaker 1: supers that the closing argument of Democrats should focus only

1617
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:07,559
Speaker 1: on abortion, cut the thirty second abortion ads and coast

1618
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:10,679
Speaker 1: to victory. Bernie goes on to bash Republicans for standing

1619
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:13,760
Speaker 1: the way of living wages, taxing billionaires, universal health care,

1620
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 1: and paid time off, before lamenting that in spite of

1621
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:21,599
Speaker 1: Republicans standing in lockstep against this popular economic agenda, quote

1622
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:25,920
Speaker 1: in poll after poll, Republicans are more trusted than Democrats

1623
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 1: to handle the economy, the issue of most importance to people.

1624
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:32,719
Speaker 1: He says he believes that if Democrats do not fight

1625
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 1: back on economic issues and present a strong pro worker agenda,

1626
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 1: they could well be in the minority in both the

1627
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:42,720
Speaker 1: House and the Senate next year. Now, Democrats have a

1628
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 1: recent example the power of the sort of material politics

1629
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:48,719
Speaker 1: that Senator Sanders is advocating for. During the Georgia Senate runoffs,

1630
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:51,600
Speaker 1: you'll recall Democrats were severe underdogs, but they managed to

1631
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:54,200
Speaker 1: pull off a clean sweep on the clear and compelling

1632
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:56,639
Speaker 1: promise of two thousand dollars checks, with a little assist

1633
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,040
Speaker 1: from Donald Trump as well. It might add, now, Biden

1634
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:01,680
Speaker 1: has already promised that with two more Democratic senators he

1635
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,360
Speaker 1: would codify Roe versus Wait. Okay, that's good, but he

1636
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 1: can and should do a whole lot more. He should

1637
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 1: promise to use a Democratic majority to ditch the filibuster

1638
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 1: and pass a populist working class agenda that will help

1639
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:16,840
Speaker 1: ordinary Americans and will punish the corporate price gougers and

1640
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 1: economic royalists. Wall Street types would throw a fit. Great,

1641
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: that would only make it better politics. It defies all

1642
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 1: political logic to see to Republicans what is undeniably the

1643
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:31,280
Speaker 1: most important issue for the largest number of voters. The

1644
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:35,200
Speaker 1: only possible explanation for such political malpractice is a desire

1645
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 1: to avoid making any promises that they they may then

1646
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:41,519
Speaker 1: have to keep. And it's a testament to just how

1647
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 1: screwed up our politics is that on the most important

1648
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:47,799
Speaker 1: issue for ordinary voters, our political class has literally nothing

1649
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,679
Speaker 1: to say. Their silence speaks volumes, and Sagar is looking

1650
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 1: at the numbers. This is going to be the most

1651
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:55,160
Speaker 1: expense and if you want to hear my reaction to

1652
01:24:55,280 --> 01:25:01,840
Speaker 1: Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1653
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:04,320
Speaker 1: As you all know, we have been closely following the

1654
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 1: grassroots labor movement that has really swept the country. You've

1655
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,560
Speaker 1: got Starbucks workers, You've got Amazon workers. Actually there's a

1656
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 1: big Amazon union election, I think this weekend. You've got

1657
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: Arii workers, and you also have a first of its

1658
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:19,880
Speaker 1: kind union at Chipotle. So we're very excited to bring

1659
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 1: on two of the workers who were behind that first

1660
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:25,120
Speaker 1: union effort at a Chipotle in Michigan. We have Atulia

1661
01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:28,800
Speaker 1: Dora Laski and Harper McNamara. Welcome. Great to have you

1662
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:35,360
Speaker 1: both thanks for joining the show. Hi, thanks absolutely, yeah, absolutely,

1663
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and put this tear sheet up

1664
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:39,800
Speaker 1: on the screen. Our friend Jonah Furman over at labor

1665
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 1: Notes wrote up what you all have been up to

1666
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:46,679
Speaker 1: the headline here is how Zoomers organized the first Chipotle union.

1667
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:49,760
Speaker 1: You all formed the fast food chains first recognized union

1668
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:51,800
Speaker 1: in the US, voting eleven to three on August twenty

1669
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:55,760
Speaker 1: fifth to join Teamsters Local two forty three ATULIA. Let

1670
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 1: me start with you. What made you all decide that

1671
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:01,639
Speaker 1: you wanted to unionize? What was sort of the inspiration

1672
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:05,519
Speaker 1: for this project. Well, it's kind of the classic issues

1673
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:09,360
Speaker 1: that happened in any workplace. We were being under scheduled

1674
01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:14,200
Speaker 1: pretty severely at work, we were being paid quite poorly

1675
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:16,599
Speaker 1: for the work we do, uh, and then we felt

1676
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 1: like that we didn't really have enough control over our

1677
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 1: working conditions or workplace. So classic reasons, but you'll find

1678
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 1: that they're applicable in any workplace, and they're definitely applicable

1679
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 1: a Chipotle, as we found as we worked there the longer.

1680
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 1: And so that's when we decided that, you know, we

1681
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:39,800
Speaker 1: needed to fix these issues. And a couple of us went,

1682
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, individually to try to get these issues fixed.

1683
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:44,879
Speaker 1: But we realized that there was no reason for Chibilee

1684
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 1: to listen to us if we were just coming to

1685
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:51,760
Speaker 1: them individually, hat in hand, because they could just either

1686
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 1: ignore us on one situation, viral worker the day they

1687
01:26:56,680 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 1: asked for a raise, the day after they asked for

1688
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:03,200
Speaker 1: a raise, and so after that point, certainly we realized

1689
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:06,600
Speaker 1: that the only tower workers really have is collectively, and

1690
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:10,160
Speaker 1: that's when we sort of talking about forming a union. Interesting, So, Harper,

1691
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: you mentioned in this piece with Jonah Firma, you've actually

1692
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 1: worked there for two years. Jonah points out that the

1693
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 1: average Chappotle worker stays only four months. Was that a

1694
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 1: challenge for you guys when you're doing an organization? How

1695
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:26,200
Speaker 1: are you thinking about that as you look forward? Yeah,

1696
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: So the turnover of our store was like something we

1697
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:34,880
Speaker 1: were kind of constantly having to account for. There were

1698
01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 1: different points where we would like build the percentage of

1699
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:42,920
Speaker 1: the crew up pretty high and then work from there

1700
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:45,879
Speaker 1: with that in mind, and then kind of fall behind

1701
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 1: on making sure that percentage stayed high with the turnover.

1702
01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 1: But really just like constantly talking to people and having

1703
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 1: other people talk to people creates the movement. We found

1704
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 1: that once you get in the swing of things, you

1705
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 1: usually are recruiting faster than people are leaving. So we

1706
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:12,679
Speaker 1: would recruit to people and then one person would leave. Yeah,

1707
01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 1: that's normally how And actually you talked about a sort

1708
01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:20,920
Speaker 1: of radicalizing event where the owner of this particular Chipotle

1709
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:23,799
Speaker 1: was trying to go for this like special status with corporate,

1710
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:26,760
Speaker 1: this designation of restaurant tour and really you know, was

1711
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:30,439
Speaker 1: working things to make that happen, and eventually accomplishes this

1712
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:34,000
Speaker 1: brings all of you out for a photo op with

1713
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:36,920
Speaker 1: a cake that they then proceeded to eat and sent

1714
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 1: you all to the back. Talk about how that how

1715
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 1: that particular incident and indignity factored into your decision making here. Yeah,

1716
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:50,719
Speaker 1: so a bunch of us had been organizing at that point.

1717
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:53,799
Speaker 1: But in a way, that moment was really useful because

1718
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the crew members got to see what

1719
01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 1: corporate like kind of really thought about them in that moment.

1720
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:02,200
Speaker 1: We kind of consti it not even a let them

1721
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:07,240
Speaker 1: eat cake moment. It was a very simple moment where

1722
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, they brought us all together, like you said,

1723
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:11,760
Speaker 1: to take a picture in front of a cake, but

1724
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:14,960
Speaker 1: they didn't even really buy a second cake, And I

1725
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:16,519
Speaker 1: mean this is just like a pro tip if you

1726
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:19,320
Speaker 1: want to keep your workers like less agitated, maybe by

1727
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 1: the second sheet cake. I don't know, probably would have

1728
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:26,120
Speaker 1: been a worthwhile investment for them in hindsight Hindsight's twenty

1729
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 1: twenty though, Harper obviously go ahead. Oh so yeah, So

1730
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 1: during that moment, we all all the crew members got

1731
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 1: sent back away from the managers to wash their hands.

1732
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:41,400
Speaker 1: And famously one crew member who hadn't really been talked

1733
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 1: to about the union stuff when they had this like

1734
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:47,600
Speaker 1: balloon for restaurantur and she went, oh, I thought the

1735
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:51,920
Speaker 1: art was going to be for raise. That thinks a

1736
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 1: lot easier about Harper, were you all inspired at all

1737
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:59,839
Speaker 1: by the example of like the Starbucks workers, the ARII workers,

1738
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:02,679
Speaker 1: Amazon workers. We've been following all of these things here

1739
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:07,920
Speaker 1: really closely. Was that did that factor into this whatsoever? Yeah?

1740
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:11,720
Speaker 1: For sure. So when we were initially talking about everything,

1741
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 1: there was a group of us that was like, this

1742
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:19,400
Speaker 1: could actually work, looking at the Starbucks stuff. But this

1743
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:23,240
Speaker 1: was also at a point when there hadn't been any

1744
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:27,640
Speaker 1: Starbucks elections yet, so it was really like part of

1745
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:30,400
Speaker 1: that movement. We were seeing that And then we were

1746
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 1: seeing like our own store and being like, well, if

1747
01:30:32,400 --> 01:30:37,800
Speaker 1: it's possible to create a movement there, then we can

1748
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:41,479
Speaker 1: leverage those same factors here. And now you all have

1749
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:45,720
Speaker 1: joined up with Teamsters Local two forty three. I know

1750
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:51,080
Speaker 1: Teamster's International has new leadership in charge. They have positioned

1751
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:53,559
Speaker 1: themselves to be a lot more aggressive, a lot more

1752
01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 1: interested in organizing news shops, a lot more sort of militant.

1753
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 1: What were the factors ATULIA that led you to join

1754
01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 1: up with the team serves as opposed to going the

1755
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:05,439
Speaker 1: route that say Amazon went in forming their own company

1756
01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 1: specific union. Yeah, so we really felt that we did

1757
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 1: need quite a bit of legal support and organizing support

1758
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:20,040
Speaker 1: from people who did have union organizing experience. We were

1759
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:24,040
Speaker 1: we were lucky enough to get recommended labor notes and

1760
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:27,880
Speaker 1: get help from our local DSA chapter, but none of

1761
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:30,800
Speaker 1: us had really had union organizing experience before. So we

1762
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:34,880
Speaker 1: decided that it was probably better to get a more

1763
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:41,719
Speaker 1: seasoned and like militant and dedicated union organizing organizer on board.

1764
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:48,439
Speaker 1: And so we all voted as in the general meeting

1765
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:50,800
Speaker 1: with all the union membership, we voted on much union

1766
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:53,680
Speaker 1: to go with, and we ended up voting overwhelmingly with

1767
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:58,560
Speaker 1: the Teams series. We can't speak to TDU too much specifically,

1768
01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 1: but what we did find really fascinating about the Team

1769
01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:04,840
Speaker 1: Stars is how much of the democracy they really were

1770
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:08,560
Speaker 1: to the point where you could have like a reformist

1771
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:12,120
Speaker 1: party run within the team stairs and then when and

1772
01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:16,439
Speaker 1: then kind of implement their uh performance gender, Yeah, all

1773
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:19,519
Speaker 1: those things really matter and Harper, what is next? Have

1774
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:22,599
Speaker 1: you had other Chipotles across the country reach out because

1775
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 1: one of the things Jonah points out in his labor

1776
01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:27,080
Speaker 1: notes piece here is that the structure of Chipotlee's kind

1777
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:29,439
Speaker 1: of similar to Starbucks and that you have a lot

1778
01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:31,559
Speaker 1: of corporate owned stores. That's not the case with a

1779
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 1: lot of fast food franchise where you have you know,

1780
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:36,280
Speaker 1: the franchisees, and that makes things can make things a

1781
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:38,799
Speaker 1: little bit more difficult. So if you had other Chipottle

1782
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:41,320
Speaker 1: workers and other cities across the country reach out and say, hey,

1783
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 1: we want to do this too, so uh the yes,

1784
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:55,080
Speaker 1: so Chipotle is not franchise, which does make it a

1785
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:59,320
Speaker 1: lot easier to like spread as a movement and we

1786
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 1: are excited to work with like a lot more stores

1787
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 1: and like turn it into a very powerful union Cooeah,

1788
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:12,120
Speaker 1: so right now, if we can talk about this, we

1789
01:33:12,160 --> 01:33:16,880
Speaker 1: are working with you walk the Emergency Worker Organizing Committee.

1790
01:33:17,439 --> 01:33:20,760
Speaker 1: And so if you are out of Chipotle that you

1791
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:25,000
Speaker 1: think could be improved or maybe isn't going so well,

1792
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:28,080
Speaker 1: and if you would like help or support or advice

1793
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:31,960
Speaker 1: talking to your co workers, you can go to worker

1794
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:39,439
Speaker 1: Organizing dot org, Slash support Slash Chipotle Dash Workers and

1795
01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:44,480
Speaker 1: sign up there and then for it'll be easier. Yeah,

1796
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 1: but absolutely if there are Chipotle workers out there who

1797
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 1: are interested in following this path, definitely go check out

1798
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:53,679
Speaker 1: that link. And you know Atulia and Harper can help

1799
01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:56,759
Speaker 1: you with advice on what they learned throughout this process.

1800
01:33:57,640 --> 01:33:59,600
Speaker 1: Both of you, please keep in touch. It's great to

1801
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:01,600
Speaker 1: have you on the show. And you know, I know

1802
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:03,360
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of courage to kind of band

1803
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:06,320
Speaker 1: together and unionize, especially the first one in the country.

1804
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:09,200
Speaker 1: But here's hoping it starts the same sort of firestorm

1805
01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:12,200
Speaker 1: that the Starbucks workers were able to ignite. Thanks guys,

1806
01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:16,320
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank for having us again. Yeah, absolutely, our pleasure.

1807
01:34:16,680 --> 01:34:18,840
Speaker 1: All right, thank you guys so much watching. We really

1808
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:20,720
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Man. I love talking to those guys. I know,

1809
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:25,679
Speaker 1: it really warms my heart. It's like expert or people

1810
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 1: actually in the field, living their lives, just trying to,

1811
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:30,880
Speaker 1: you know, not get treated. Can you imagine med cakes

1812
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 1: at you? Oh my god, I don't know what I

1813
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:35,800
Speaker 1: would do. I honestly, yeah, have them all out for

1814
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:37,720
Speaker 1: a photo op and then like you all go to

1815
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:40,320
Speaker 1: the back, We're going to eat this cake. I probably quit.

1816
01:34:40,360 --> 01:34:41,640
Speaker 1: But if you know, if you need the money and

1817
01:34:41,680 --> 01:34:44,920
Speaker 1: you're sitting there like boiling and rage like man, then well.

1818
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:48,400
Speaker 1: One of the things that's interesting is that Atulia said

1819
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:53,000
Speaker 1: in that article is there was another Chipotle that voters

1820
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:55,920
Speaker 1: union as they just shut it down, and so they

1821
01:34:55,960 --> 01:34:58,320
Speaker 1: were having to speak with their coworkers about like, well,

1822
01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:00,519
Speaker 1: what if that happens, and initially were like, ah, we

1823
01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:02,120
Speaker 1: don't think they do that, and they were trying to

1824
01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:04,000
Speaker 1: come up with the reasons why they didn't think Chipotle

1825
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:06,280
Speaker 1: would close this store. But then they were like, actually,

1826
01:35:06,280 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 1: the more effective and more accurate messaging was like if

1827
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 1: you lose this job is at the end of the

1828
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:13,960
Speaker 1: world because and that's where the tight labor market comes in,

1829
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:15,880
Speaker 1: because they're like, hey, we could go to Qdoba and

1830
01:35:15,920 --> 01:35:17,840
Speaker 1: get fourteen bucks an hour and basically make what you're

1831
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 1: making here a little bit more. So that also helped

1832
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:23,559
Speaker 1: to you know, make this all possible. So it's important

1833
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:25,320
Speaker 1: then in context of what we talk about with the

1834
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:29,040
Speaker 1: FED and the overall economy that we understand this is

1835
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:32,200
Speaker 1: partly you know, bolstered and enabled and you know, their

1836
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:34,759
Speaker 1: courage is not to be understated here, but bolstered enabled

1837
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:38,040
Speaker 1: by the unique economic circumstances we have right now here too.

1838
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:40,479
Speaker 1: So cake thing is going to stick with me for Yeah,

1839
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:44,640
Speaker 1: it's really something, really something. Anyway, thank you guys so

1840
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:47,360
Speaker 1: much for watching. We really appreciate it. We really appreciate

1841
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:50,040
Speaker 1: your support so that we can highlight stories like theirs

1842
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:51,559
Speaker 1: put it out there. I mean a lot more people

1843
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:53,799
Speaker 1: are going to listen to that, possibly even Chipotle workers,

1844
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 1: knowing the demographics of our audience. So anyway, it means

1845
01:35:56,520 --> 01:35:59,559
Speaker 1: a lot that you support our work, our expansion. I said,

1846
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:01,519
Speaker 1: we got the Counterpoints discount. It's going to be for

1847
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:03,400
Speaker 1: the last week and for those of you who want

1848
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:06,000
Speaker 1: to add more to your membership, you're more than welcome to.

1849
01:36:06,120 --> 01:36:08,920
Speaker 1: You can adjust it now on the website. Thank you

1850
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:11,680
Speaker 1: super Cash for building that technology. Seriously, they are such

1851
01:36:11,680 --> 01:36:14,879
Speaker 1: an amazing company. We love working with them. And then Chicago.

1852
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 1: Come see us in Chicago. I promise you it's going

1853
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:19,600
Speaker 1: to be a fantastic time and we will have a

1854
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: great show for you, friends, family, and anyone else that

1855
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:25,480
Speaker 1: you choose to bring. We promise to keep it all lighthearted.

1856
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 1: If the world is going to end, we might as

1857
01:36:27,479 --> 01:36:31,320
Speaker 1: well all end together, all enjoy. We'll have a good

1858
01:36:31,320 --> 01:36:34,000
Speaker 1: segment tomorrow, and then we'll have a show for you

1859
01:36:34,080 --> 01:36:36,639
Speaker 1: on Thursday, and then of course Counterpoints on Friday. Only

1860
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:38,920
Speaker 1: one day off for Breaking Points. Look at that, it's

1861
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:41,320
Speaker 1: amazing filling up that calendar. We'll see you guys later