WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Danny Casolaro and The Octopus 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.280 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by nailing potatoes. 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:07.360 Instead is supported by the generous contributions of people like you, 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:11.799 our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash thinking 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:28.320 sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways. I don't know stories 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:34.240 of things we sympthy don't know the answer too. Hey everybody, 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.199 and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:43.960 am Steve, as always joined by Joe, and once again 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:50.159 we've got another mystery. There's a couple more left. This 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:54.720 mystery was suggested to us by Brian on Facebook. Oh god, 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.920 it was like a year ago, and weirdly enough, as 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.120 I was doing all of my research, suddenly there was 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.680 a resurgence and we must have got another three or 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.199 four or five suggestions. I think I said I've said 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.560 to someone recently. You know, sometimes we find ourselves in 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.600 a situation where somebody suggested something that we're literally about 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.440 to record. I'm not saying this is one of those situations. 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.240 But I'm not not saying this is because sometimes we 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.119 just have to say, Okay, yes, we're doing it. I'm 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.920 sure you made their day anyway. Maybe probably not, probably 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.240 maybe they don't care, maybe not, maybe it's a mystery. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.520 What are we coming next week? That right there, that's 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:34.920 what we're covering. I'm on it man, aw yeah, we 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:40.440 need a short episode. Okay, Today, what we're gonna be 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.240 talking about is we are going to be talking about 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:47.800 the death of writer Danny Castillo and his investigation into 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.640 what he called the octopus. He's not the only one 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.320 who calls it that know that the term of the 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:57.280 octopus has been around for quite a while. He really 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.880 liked the octopus. And I'm gonna warn everybody, uh to 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.559 strap in. This is kind of a eighties history roller coaster. 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:05.600 We're going to go through a whole bunch of stuff. 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.359 So get your penn, get paper, take notes, because it 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.240 be a quiz at the end you're gonna be glad 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.840 you did it. I'm not taking notes. I have notes 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.760 in front of He's already Yeah. He always says that 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:25.280 though flight. So let's talk about Danny for a minute 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.240 for a little bit here. He was a freelance writer 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.080 at the time of his death, which was in he 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.320 wrote for During the eighties, he wrote for a number 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.919 of tabloids and and some other different magazines, and then 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.560 he got on at computer age publications which reported on 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:47.000 personal computing, which this is the eighties. Computers are awesome 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.400 and cool and there's you know, I mean even today, 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.600 tech writing is a big thing. Yeah, he and he 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.240 worked there for a long time until he eventually he 0:02:55.440 --> 0:03:00.600 became part owner in the publication, until he's sold off 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:05.079 his portion of the company in decided, I guess, I 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.840 never I don't know why he did that, but he 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.239 just he'd had enough wanted to move on, which we 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.720 all do with jobs. I guess it's interesting that he 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.440 wouldn't retain his ownership of it though, despite not writing 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:22.680 for it. Yeah, it's almost like it'd be easy incomes. Well, 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.200 here's the thing is, actually, I think I remember reading 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:30.760 that the value of the company was going up, and 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.680 it looks like he saw it as a bit of 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.760 a cash cow. Hey i'm gonna I'm gonna take the 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.400 money and run before this bubble bursts. And he sold 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.040 probably six months to a year too soon. If he'd 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.200 waited longer, he would have made a whole bunch. He 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.440 waited longer, he would have been dead. So maybe not, 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:53.640 Well that's true. We don't know, we don't know, Okay, Okay, Well, 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:58.760 so he does that, and then Cassolero goes ahead and 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.520 looking around on for something else to do. He's talking to. Reportedly, 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.800 he talks to another friend who is also a journalist 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.640 in the same field and says, hey, I want to 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.920 get back into writing. I want to find a good story. 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:16.040 And this friend suggests that he looked into the inns 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.240 law case, which at the time had been going on 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:24.440 for a decade. It's totally forgotten to history. I feel, yeah, really, 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.640 I don't hear people talking about it. And then the 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:28.440 way that people talk about a lot of other stuff, 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:30.240 which is kind of scary because it was kind of 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.839 a big thing several decades that we're not for a 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:34.800 long time. And frankly, I gotta tell you, it's hard 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.080 to understand. It's really hard to get a handle on 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.599 the case. It is a muddy, muddy mess. And we're 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.640 going to go into, at least to a certain degree, 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.760 the case. But I do want to stick just kind 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.359 of with Danny here. So he looks at it and 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.640 he says, hey, this this is right up my alley, 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.120 because the ins lack case is all about technology. So 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.040 he goes ahead, he starts doing his investigation, and he 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.719 started it not too long after he had sold his 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.720 portion of the publication, so it's starts doing this work. 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.160 It didn't take too long in his investigation though, for 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:15.080 him to start seeing and I'm using air quotes when 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:19.080 I'm saying seeing, or his sources to start telling him 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:23.839 about a lot of crazy connections to the in's law case. 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:28.680 They were really it seems coincidental. Does that make sense? 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.200 I mean, you two know this, but it seems coincidental, 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.000 and then it just kind of grows in spider webs. Well, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.400 I think it's one of those situations right where if 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.760 if there was one coincidence, you'd say, oh, that's just 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:44.239 a coincidence, but when there's ten coincidences, you start to think, Okay, 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.680 that's a lot of coincidences to just be coincidence. Yeah, 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:49.800 it's just right. I mean that was my sense was 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:51.760 that it was just kind of if it had just 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:53.960 been one or two things, it would have been nothing, 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.800 but not one or two things similar name, the same 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:00.359 name pops up in this and other air is you 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.200 know that kind of thing? Yeah? Yeah, And and what 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.120 the coincidences or the connections or whatever you want to 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.360 call it, it is what he began to refer to 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:15.440 as the octopus, which is all of these crazy connections 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:21.000 that seem to indicate that there's some secret network that's 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:30.400 responsible for terrible acts espionage, murders, assassinations, laundering drugs. I mean, 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.560 it kind of runs the full gamut here. I almost 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:34.960 I almost want to think of it less of a 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:37.520 network and more of kind of a cabal, one of 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.200 the ways I've always kind of seen the octopus. Yeah, 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:45.560 we can call it that. The Nights templar the Illuminati, 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.800 you know, No, I mean the Illuminati would fall into 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:54.120 the umbrella of the of the octopus. Yeah. Well, that's 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.040 the weird part is that this is technically going to 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:01.480 be a conspiracy theory, and there are tons of things 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.039 that whenever you read about one conspiracy theory, you're going 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.440 to find a whole bunch of things linked to it. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:11.880 And it's amazing how they all tend to have commonalities 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:16.120 that all run through common stories, which is, yeah, we 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:17.920 probably don't need to go to FIR to this, but 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.120 it's always interesting to me. I'm going to do a 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.800 little bit of it anyway. It's always interesting to me, 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.760 you know, when you it's it's similar to when you 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:27.680 look at ancient history, and you see all of the 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.200 depictions of things that look a lot like flying somethings 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.760 in like prehistoric times, right, and it's kind of like, okay, well, 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.160 if one one group of people would come up with 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.280 that on their own, okay, But when you start seeing 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:41.400 it in a lot, you kind of think, well, something 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.480 must have been you know, maybe it was meteors or whatever. 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.880 But same with this to me, where it's kind of like, well, 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.800 there's all these theories of this thing in different iterations, 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.880 so like ancient aliens. Yeah, I mean that's why I know, 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.040 that's where well with that, yeah, But with this, you know, 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:01.640 there's so many shadowy organizations that almost you kind of think, 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.920 can this many people be crazy? Yes, this many crazy? 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.960 But again I don't know, and we're going to keep 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.840 talking about that. I'm pretty yeah. I think that that 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.160 our brains are kind of hardwired to find patterns and things. 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:17.800 That's the way are the human mind works, and so 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.320 we're naturally we're constantly constructing things like this. But I 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.160 have a question for you guys, and that is this. Okay, 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.160 we've got the octopus, and then we have this other 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:30.280 shadowy conspiracy called the Illuminati, what happens when they when 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.319 they collide? Squid squid? Is that what it is that's 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.040 kind of curious about it? Do they have a shadow 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.360 war or they just like to get together in a 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:42.200 little room it's hydra. Yeah, they make some other ce 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:47.480 creature or do they drop treaties between them between each other? 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.600 What do they do? I don't know, No, I mean 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.960 that that's kind of what I was alluding to, is that, like, 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.760 there can't be all of the ones that are theorized, 0:08:55.800 --> 0:09:00.000 but it's it's certainly possible that there's one of them 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:07.040 as Yeah, pretty sure. Alright, let's let's let's get back 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.720 to the story here. We've done enough about the balls 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.560 and crazy conspiracy theories for the moment. Anyway, I'm gonna 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.600 say we're going there that we we are going to 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.040 kind of go there today. So we're gonna move forward. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.800 So Danny began his work in we're going to jump 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:23.840 forward in time. We're gonna jump forward to the eighth 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:28.960 of August. Castelero goes to Martinsburg, West Virginia. He's going 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.560 to go there to meet several sources. He meets one 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.120 of them, for sure, but he it appears that he 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.400 was going to go to meet more than one. But 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:41.640 while he's at his hotel, he bumps into this guy 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.400 who he's never met before, by the name of Mike Looney. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:47.960 They meet in the hallway, they start to chat, and 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.560 then later on they meet in the hotel bar that night, 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.440 and I bring up Looney because he's talked about a 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:59.760 number of times to validate Danny's state of mind, because 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.840 when they were in the bar, he was very chatty, 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.720 and he told him all about his research and all 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:07.400 this stuff that he was going to do, and it 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.400 sounds like I got the impression that they talked over 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:15.000 drinks for several hours. So he didn't display any kind 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.800 of abnormal behavior. He just seemed like a guy who 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.040 was really excited about what he was doing. It's interesting 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.760 some people bring up they bring up Looney because in 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.199 this kind of shadowy way, right that he just happens. 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.240 They just happened to meet, even though it was a 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:32.800 coincidence that both of their rooms were right next to 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.720 each other. But I guess I hadn't, you know, it 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:38.520 makes more sense. Of course, Yeah, they ran each other 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.959 in the halls, like of course they did. Yeah, and 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:42.839 then they went and got a drink or happened to 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.000 see each other and connected. Fine. Yeah, but there are 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.800 those people out there who were like the looney he 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.040 just happens to meet. It's crazy. Yeah, I think it 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:53.959 looney had murdered him. I think that he wouldn't be 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.840 saying that he was cheerful, excited. Yeah. Well, let's move 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.400 forward to the next day. So now we're on the 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:06.480 ninth of August and Castolero meets a source at two 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.200 o'clock that afternoon, and then from there he goes to 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.800 a place called the Stone Crab in and has dinner 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:15.920 and a couple of beers. And we know this because 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.600 he left at five twelve pm, which is the time 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.240 he paid with his credit card, so we've got the 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:25.400 credit card record there. He then went to a pay 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.120 phone and called his family sometime around six o'clock to 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:33.520 say that, yeah, I went to a pay phone. Yeah, 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:36.680 he went to a pay phone and he called his 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.240 family because they seem to have had a standing thing 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.319 where they would do dinner together, and he was notorious 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.960 for bagging out, so he was calling to say he 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.079 wasn't gonna make it. Where did he live? Oh, it's 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:54.640 it's uh, it's Virginia, McLean Virginia. Okay, so not too awful. Okay, yeah, 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.760 so it's reasonable that he could have been trying to 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.959 get home. Yes, okay, So, like I said, it was 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.839 about six o'clock that night that he made the call. 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.800 He then disappears from the radar for about four hours. 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.839 He shows up about ten o'clock that evening, so it's 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.240 ten o'clock at night. He's seen at a convenience store, 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.520 which is it's either next door it's right next door 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.480 to his hotel. I think he was staying at a 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.280 shared in, remember correctly. Yeah, he goes in, he wants coffee, 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.120 He has to wait for the coffee to be made, 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.319 gets a cup of coffee, and then he walks back 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.120 to his hotel. Interesting. I'm sorry, it's just interesting to me. 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:35.120 Most hotels in the lobby have free coffee, especially Sheridan's 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.760 twenty four hours a day, So it's interesting that he 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:39.800 felt like he had to go to the Communian store 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.439 to pay for coffee instead of just walk the extra 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:45.440 like the coffee they had. Yeah, I mean it wasn't good, 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.640 but the convenient store coffee going to be that much better. 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.840 Most hotels have coffee out to a certain point in 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.280 the day, but I don't I mean, do they always 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.040 have conn Not always? I guess that's fair. I I 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.400 just always assumed they have coffee in a lot, because 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.680 you know, if you get in late and whatever. I 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.959 don't know what he was doing drinking coffee at ten pm, though, 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.120 I don't know because it's a little weird he's going 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.720 to stay up and write. I mean, it makes sense 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.000 to me that if he had, especially if he had 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.760 met with a source in that four hours, which is 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.880 totally possible that he did, or he met a source 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:21.959 at two o'clock, right, but that it's possible that he 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.280 had another source that he managed to meet with in 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.720 those four hours that he went missing. Maybe because he 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.079 did that bagged out on him on the day before 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.360 the eight he was supposed to meet a source who 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.480 just flaked on, right, And I wouldn't necessarily come forward 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.040 if I was a source that was giving information about 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.319 something like this and had seen him in those four 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.840 hours and then he showed up dead close after that, 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:45.640 I wouldn't necessarily be like, oh, yeah, I was with 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.320 him four hours. Probably not, but it makes sense to 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.280 me that he would be going back to write that 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.480 he would be inspired, or even if it was just 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.280 based on the source earlier, that he would be trying 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.880 to stay up and collect his thoughts and all that stuff. 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.560 Maybe maybe, I don't know. I mean, it's it's peculiar 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.000 because you know, when he was at the Stone Crab 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.920 in he ate dinner and he had a couple of 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:09.760 beers I think it was bud Lights or something like 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:11.480 that he was drinking. So he's drinking a couple of 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.120 beers and then four hours later he's having some coffee. So, 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.160 I mean, I can see why he's waking himself up. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.200 But do you not do that? How did I start 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:25.000 drinking beer? I don't start drinking he was, so it 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.480 wasn't like he was a young guy. Sure, I don't know. 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.600 It just that makes sense to me. Okay, well, we're 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.240 trying to sober up. We're going to move past that, 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.040 and we're going to move to the next day, which 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.200 is August ten. It's twelve thirty in the afternoon and 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.520 the maid enters his hotel room and she finds Danny 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:48.280 dead in the tub. Sorry to keep interrupting, when was 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.840 he meant to check out? Do you know? I don't 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:55.240 I'd never have seen that anywhere to either. Stupid amount 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.880 of reading that and I have not seen anywhere that 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.920 ever said he was expecting to check out yet yeah, 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.960 I haven't either. It's maybe that he wasn't expecting to 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:05.920 check out for another day or too hot, I don't know. 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.880 But the thing is, the maid comes in, she finds 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.320 him in the tub. His wrists have been slit. There's 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.680 the places covered in blood, the bathroom, it's all over 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.600 the walls, the tub in the water, all over the floor. 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.160 There's towels soaked in blood underneath the sink, like it's 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.240 not a pretty scene under the sink on the floor. Yes, 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:31.800 so it's just like it wasn't the impression there could 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:33.880 have been towels on the floor that the blood soaked 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:38.160 into potentially, Yes, yes, that is absolutely a possibility. Okay, 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.080 I just need to clarify that because I think that's 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.400 going to come into play later. Well. And no, that's 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.560 a great thing because I've never really gotten any good 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:49.040 photos of the crime scene and the descriptions they leave 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:53.840 a lot to be desired. Yet the descriptions you get 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.440 of this crime scene aren't that great, And a lot 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.920 of that is because it is not considered a prime scene. 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.920 It's considered the scene of a suicide. I think there 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.720 are two reasons, right, that reason, and then also there's 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:12.080 always that reason of hoping to spare people the trauma 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:16.240 of really detailed descriptions of how horrific a suicide it 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.240 was orme. But there are definitely some things that are 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.760 are pointed out that give me some question marks for sure. Yeah, 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.640 now the coaster, for one thing. Well, let's that's a 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:27.400 good thing to bring up, Joe, And let's bring up 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.600 all of the stuff that's in the room. So there's 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.280 a little bit of a laundry. Listen, we're gonna go 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.240 through here in the bathroom itself, so not in the 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.000 tub with Danny, but in the bathroom, the police find 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.600 a bottle of red wine that's half full. They find 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.720 an ashtray sitting on the toilet and smoke. Was he 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.480 a smoker? You know? Again, I don't know. I don't know. 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:48.720 We've never seen reference to the fact of if he 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.400 was or was not a smokers. The nineties, I mean, 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.800 a lot of people still smoke. So I've got a 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:55.920 guess that if he's got an ashtray in the bathroom, 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.880 with him. He's a smokers, because that's what smokers do 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:00.880 when they get in the bath. They opened the window 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.560 and you have a cigarette drunk or if you're drunk. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:06.520 But we don't know if there's any there were any 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:09.680 butts in the ash tray. No, no, again, never referenced. 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.840 It's the ash tray, but not the contents of said 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:18.520 ash tree. Also in the bathroom itself is broken glass. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.760 From what I don't know. I okay, I got the 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.320 bit about the broken glass. There's a guy named Ken Thomas. 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.159 He wrote the book The Octopus. He went out, he 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.800 picked up all of Castolero's notes, he went through it all, 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.679 and he reconstructed all of his research and then he 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.520 built on the theories from there and then put out 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.720 a whole new book. And he didn't do it himself. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.000 There was another guy, but the addition that I had 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.800 read was mainly under his name. But he's the only 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.679 place that I've seen that references this other piece of 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.680 broken glass. And I don't know what it is because 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.240 I was rereading this today going wait, where the hell 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.480 was it? Broken glass? What was it? I can't All 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:02.199 it is is broken probably well, hotels in the bathroom 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.280 they usually have a couple of glasses, and that's that's 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:09.680 probably he said he knocked over the stupid cheaper hotel glass. Well, 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.199 it's hard to tell. Yeah, it's hard to tell with 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:18.240 that level, with a Sheridan level hotel. Nowadays it's all plastic, right, 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.000 it's just the plastic cups, like solo cups or whatever. 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.720 I don't know if in the nineties they had actual glasses, 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:33.320 glasses glass, remember that in most hotels up until i'd 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.680 say the last decade. Okay, okay, see, and that's good information. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.359 I was a kid, so I don't. I hate to 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.679 sound like I'm like like a snob or anything like that, 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.320 but I still stay in hotels occasionally even these days 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.160 that have glass in there. No, I do too, Yeah, certainly, 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.560 But I'm just thinking there are different levels of hotels, 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.080 and nicer ones always have glass, and the kind of 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.400 crappier ones very rarely do. So I just didn't know. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:58.919 Maybe it was glass, Maybe it was the broken glass 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.399 from a wine glass or something. I don't know. Again, 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.679 don't know. Let's continue on with what was there in 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.440 the tub. So this is in the tub with the body, 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:14.720 they find a two plastic trash bags, which I don't get. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.800 I don't understand. There's a single edge razor blade which 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.680 makes sense, a can of Old Milwaukee that really doesn't 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:28.840 make sense, why would anybody drink that? And a paper 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.440 coasters Joe had mentioned a little bit ago. They also, 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.720 this is another weird thing. They find a shoelace tied 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:44.960 around his neck, which is just weird. Again, nothing the shoelace, 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.040 I know that. I think I read it in The Octopus, 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.720 and I swear I've seen it in a number of websites. 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.200 You know, somebody's gonna yell. I'm pretty sure I remember 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.480 seeing it on the wiki, but it may not be 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.120 or maybe I don't know, but I know I've read 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.240 it in more than one place. It could have just 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:04.400 been a necklace. I mean, I've seen guys with necklaces 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.159 that really kind of look like shoelaces. It was the 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.439 we Now, the terrible thing for the investigation here is, 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.199 of course, that what does what do the police do 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.439 when they get there? They drained the tub by to 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.280 drain the tub, I mean, they pulled the plug. Why 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.560 they don't save any water, They don't strain it to 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:28.320 try and catch anything. I don't know why other than 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.000 they just went he did it himself. Why would we bother? 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.920 The only thing I can I can or they're under 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:40.520 the pair exactly. Maybe this is gonna happen this entire story. 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:44.480 I can tell you what about the maid. This is interesting, 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.960 you know, I can kind of explain away some of 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:52.439 this stuff. I guess. I mean, it doesn't it's not 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.920 consistent with what we've heard about his mood and state 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.040 of mind around that time. Suicide is not absolutely right, 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.160 but but in a into that, you know, I can 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.840 kind of say, Okay, they found two plastic trash bags. Okay, 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.520 maybe he tried to suffocate himself before. Yeah, maybe he 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.439 just tried to and it didn't work, so he just 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.119 you know, dropped it in the tub with him. I 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.640 don't know about the coaster. Maybe the coaster was on 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.840 the I'm sorry, I'm just going there. Yeah, maybe it was, 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.119 you know, with the beer and that he like flailed 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.600 after he cut himself and actually knocked it in. It 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:28.360 could have been the source of the broken glass. He's 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:30.600 got a glass of something sitting on the edge of 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.280 the tub on the coaster and the beer can apparently 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:35.760 or maybe, but maybe he didn't want to drink out 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:37.280 of can. I know people who don't drink out of cans. 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:38.720 They don't want to drink out of can. So maybe 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:40.760 he had it in a glass and was pouring the 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.879 can into it. I don't know. I just think that 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:45.600 was the first place my mind went to when I 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.320 heard about the plastic bags, was, oh, well, he probably 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.240 was trying to asphyxiate himself or somebody was trying to 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.080 make it look like he as fixated himself, or somebody 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:58.120 did asphyxiate himself him and then because risk, but that's 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.359 where my mind goes with the trash bags. Well, it 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.000 might have been that. You know, he planned after he 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:05.160