1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for 3 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: tuning in. Today's episode is about something that ostensibly is 4 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: a very very small thing but turns out to be 5 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: very mysterious and it has profound implications. My name is Ben, 6 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: and you know I cannot abide your riddles, sir, my 7 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: name is Noel. By the way, I can't abide them. 8 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: I enjoy them. They just make me furious because they're 9 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: they're they're very difficult to solve. Your like the troll 10 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: at the bridge and the Monty Python Movie's way better. 11 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: Look that's okay, Well, good safe, Thank you man. There's 12 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: a there's super producer Casey Pegrum. We're back in that 13 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: studio we mentioned in a previous episode where we're surrounded 14 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: by fan art that it is not about us. We're 15 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: surrounded by fan art, but not surrounded by fans. It 16 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: tends to get pretty hot in here. We call this 17 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: one the sweat box. That's that's true. That's true. It 18 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: has it has an official name, which is Bowie, but 19 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: then it has the real name we all use with Stinky, 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: the Stinky Sweatbox. So here. Here's the thing this is. 21 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: This is a bit of a riddle. I like that 22 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: phrase because it's something we haven't solved. It turns out 23 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: that if you have a glass of hot water and 24 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: you have a glass of cold water and you put 25 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: them in a freezer, one of them freezes faster than 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: the other. It's gotta be the cold water bend, because 27 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: it's already part of the way there to being frozen 28 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: because it's cold. That's what I would think too, That's 29 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: what everybody thought. But it turns out the hot water 30 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: actually freezes more quickly. I hate that. You hate when 31 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: hot water freezes. I just hate that it defies my 32 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: meager understanding of the universe. Hey, we all have a 33 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: meager understanding of the universe. You know, we're taking baby steps. 34 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: This is called the Mapemba effect mp E m b A. 35 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: Do youm ma pember the time when this demodynamics we 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: were working on that? What I have been thinking about 37 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: it ever since we started looking at this topic. It's 38 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: true the spoiler alert. We have a lot of questions 39 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: about this thing called the Mapemba effect. And you may 40 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: be asking yourself, why why is my why is my 41 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: history crew talking science? On me. Do you guys bait 42 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: and switch me. I've wanted a science show. I would 43 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: listen to a science show. Well, we're examining the story 44 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: of how the Mapemba effect came to be. It's true, 45 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: and it turns out we are just as non experts 46 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: on science as we are in history. So thematically this 47 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: is appropriate, very on brand. Ma Pemba. The Matpemba effect 48 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: was in fact named after a Tanzaniine schoolboy who thought, 49 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: against all logical reasoning, that ice cream would freeze quicker 50 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: if it was first heated. Now, how would someone come 51 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: up with such a crazy idea as that? That was 52 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: the question his coort, his classmates and his peers were 53 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: asking when they mercilessly mocked him. Until that is he 54 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: partnered up with his instructor and they performed an experiment. Now, 55 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: Orasto Pemba, that's his full name. He was a teenager 56 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: at the time and he was, as he said, nol 57 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: at school in Tanzania in the nineteen sixties, and he 58 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: had lessons in I love this First, he had lessons 59 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: in cookery and that's what led him to the ice 60 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: cream angle. He was taught to make ice cream by 61 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: heating up milk and sugar together on a stove and 62 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: then you're supposed to leave the mixture to cool to 63 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: room temperature and then you put it in the freezer 64 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: to make that delicious, delicious ice cream. But maybe because 65 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: he was in a hurry, maybe because he was just 66 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: a rebel without a cause or a rebel without a cream. Uh, 67 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: he put his hot mix of milk and sugar straight 68 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: into the freezer and then he found that it froze 69 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: faster then it should have. Then everybody assumed it would, 70 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: you know, because he liked the rest of the world thought. 71 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: You know, freezing is reaching a certain temperature, right, so 72 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: if you're heating something, you're further away from that freezing temperature, 73 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: so it should take longer. That's just common sense, right. Uh. 74 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: It's strange because it turned out that was not the case. Now. Now, Pemba, 75 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: from what we understand, was kind of the black sheep 76 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: of his class. He wasn't super popular, right, and that's 77 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: because he stuck to his guns, and some of his 78 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: guns were weird ones. In three when um Pemba was 79 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: in Form three in Magamba Secondary School, so that would 80 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: be the equivalent of kind of like a middle early 81 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: high school situation. Um. He was fond of, as were 82 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: many of the other boys in the school, of making 83 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: ice cream. Uh. And he talks about this in a quote. 84 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: He says, the boys at the school do this by 85 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: boiling milk, mixing it with sugar, and putting it into 86 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: the freezing chamber in the refrigerator. A lot of boys 87 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: make it, and there's a rush to get space. So 88 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: so if you don't get your mixture in, you have 89 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: to wait till other people's ice cream is done. And 90 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: that you know, it takes a while for for that 91 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: to freeze as well, because they're a room temperature like 92 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: some schmucks. That's right. So he he got scooped to 93 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: use an ice cream term by one of the other 94 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: boys who you know, bum rushed him to get that space. Uh. 95 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: And instead of missing his chance, he made a game 96 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: time clutch decision. Didn't even he did. He said, you know, 97 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put it in while it's hot. It'll 98 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: be fine. And then he came back half an hour, 99 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: no an hour and a half later with a friend 100 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: of his, and he found that his tray of milk 101 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: had frozen into ice cream completely. But his pals was 102 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: still not frozen. It had become a thick liquid, but 103 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't quite ice cream. He was surprised and he 104 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: asked his physics teacher, Hey, what's going on? And his 105 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: physics teacher said, well, here's what's going on, young Mr 106 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: m Pemba. You are confused because what you were describing 107 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: is impossible. And he kind of shrugged and said the 108 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: equivalent of well, you're the you're the teacher, you're the expert. 109 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: I guess it's your job to crush my dreams of 110 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: scientific greatness. Uh. But you know, he wouldn't be he 111 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't be stiming too much longer because he did eventually 112 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: try it again, even though he believed the teacher at 113 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: the time. But later that year he met a pal 114 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: who had his own little side hustle selling ice cream 115 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: and tanga uh, and he told Pemba that when he 116 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: made his ice cream, he put the hot liquids in 117 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: the fridge to make them freeze faster. I love that 118 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: he's because the ice cream vendor is like, yeah, yeah, arasto. 119 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: Everybody knows, this is my job to know these things, buddy, 120 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: in a very functional way. Because again it saves time, 121 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: and Ma Pemba found that this was kind of common 122 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: knowledge among the ice cream literati of of of Tanga Town. Yeah, 123 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: this reminds me a little bit of when you hear 124 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: stories of Western Europeans quote unquote discovering something like smallpox 125 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: vaccines and stuff. And this is no shade to Edward Jenner. 126 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: It typically turns out that somewhere else in the world 127 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: there's some ancient culture that knew about this four thousands 128 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: of years And in the case of the Ma Pemba effect, 129 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't just the ice cream vendors in Tanga Town 130 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: who knew about this. It turns out that people to 131 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: some degree knew about what we call them Pemba effect 132 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: as far as two thousand years ago. Right, our boy 133 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: Aristotle actually noticed this back as far as the fourth 134 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: century when he wrote that many people, when they want 135 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: to cool water, quickly begin by putting it in the sun. 136 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: That's how Aristotle talked. Yeah, and this is of course 137 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: before Aristotle is not specifically talking about ice cream, but 138 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: he is. He's wondering about it. He asked why does 139 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: this happen? And Francis Bacon and renewed decart asked the 140 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: same question. And it's weird because the cart like these 141 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: guys are making the same observation. Seriously, Descartes says, we do. 142 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: We just been kept a long time on the thighs 143 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: is fast than than other water. Now your guy sounds 144 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: like he's actually out in the cold when he's saying this, 145 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: he sounded he had a little chill in your bones. 146 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: It's classic Renee man. I gotta wonder, man, is this 147 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: effect similar? I mean, I know they're not wonder wine, 148 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: but you know, the whole idea of you defrost meat 149 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: under cold water. I wonder if that's similar, because according 150 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: to a few articles, meat um can warm up master 151 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: from cold water because cold water conducts heat better. I 152 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: don't know they're they're not the same at all. I 153 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: just just occurred to me that it's a counterintuitive side, right. 154 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: And then let's see Francis Bacon notes the same thing, 155 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: and then the scientists mar Leani in Renaissance Italy. So 156 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: we have multiple luminaries noticing this. But all of this 157 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: is the interesting thing. They kind of forget about it 158 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: because every single person who notes it just says, huh, 159 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: that's weird. I wonder what's going on with uh? With that? 160 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: And then they move on to other stuff. Yeah, like 161 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: dissecting the nature of reality. You know, it's more of 162 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: a priority for these these thinkers, right right, And uh, 163 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: my Pemba is the one who brings this back into conversation. 164 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: So let's fast forward to when he's in high school. 165 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: He learns about something called Newton's Law of cooling, and 166 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: that says essentially, uh, it lays out the rules for 167 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: how hot bodies are supposed to cool and they have 168 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: a couple of assumptions, you know, to keep it simple, 169 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: love a hot body and an assumption. Right. So, so 170 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: then he asked his teacher again, you know what happened? 171 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: Teachers like you're you're confused, And the teacher had like 172 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: this kind of snooty burn. Did you see that part 173 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: his response to the Pemba. No, I didn't tell me ben, 174 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: so I can be burned as well his snooty burn is. 175 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: All I can say is that is more Pemba's physics 176 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: and not the universal physics. And and then from then 177 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: on he would make fun of the kid like he 178 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: would the teacher would make fun of him anytime he 179 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: made a mistake in math or physics. He would be like, 180 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: that's more pember mathematics. I see was his was his 181 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: teacher Foghorn Leghorn, I don't know. He shows up a 182 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: lot in history or sort of some sort of genteel 183 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: Southern lawyer. I don't know, but he was. I don't 184 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: think that's a good way to teach students, I agree, definitely, 185 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: Not by making fun of them and making them kind 186 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: of feel uh like, you know, reluctant to express new ideas. 187 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: That's that's no good at all. Yeah, but thankfully for 188 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: history and our entire species. Ma Pemba was not so 189 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: easily cowed. He was tenacious and he kept going. Eventually 190 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: he teamed up with a guy named Dennis Osborne, a 191 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: professor of physics at the University of Dar s Salam. Yeah, 192 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: he met him when he went to speak at Micawa 193 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: High School. And at this event at the high school 194 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: he kind of feeled the questions from student body about 195 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 1: like what should I do with my life? You know, 196 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: what do I want to be when I grow up 197 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: and all that stuff kind of a career day thing. Well, absolutely, 198 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: and one of them was how do I get to university? 199 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, he had kind a more run 200 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: of the mill questions like that, Ma Pemba asked why 201 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: did hot water freeze more quickly than cold? So Ma 202 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: Pemba's recollection is the professor Professor Osborne's smiled and then 203 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: say hey, could you repeat that? And then he repeated 204 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: the question why did hot water freeze more quickly than cold? 205 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: And so after that repetition, the professor says, is it true? 206 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: Have you done it? Yes? And then the professor said, 207 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: I do not know, but I promised to try this 208 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: experiment when I am back in dag Salam. And so 209 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: this this question still stuck with Osborne and he was surprised. 210 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: You know, he thought, obviously this kid is wrong, but 211 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: unlike Pemba's earlier teacher, he's not being a jerk. Yeah, 212 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: and he actually gives the kid's benefit of the doubt. 213 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: I mean, he thinks that maybe he has made a mistake, 214 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: but he's gonna you know, uh, what's the word trust, 215 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: but verify, not the opposite of that. He doesn't trust, 216 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: but he still wants to verify doubt but there verify. 217 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: I like that as a as a as a sort 218 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: of a different version anti Reagan. I totally agree. But 219 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: he actually did the thing. You know, he told the 220 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: kid that he'd tried it, and he actually did. And uh, 221 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: you know all of the ridicule and and and teasing 222 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: that m Pemba had gotten at the hands of his 223 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: clearly awful awful classmates and student and teachers, you know, 224 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: I mean, good lord, Yeah, there's class sounds really intense 225 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: because the next day is tom Pemba's recollection. His classmates 226 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: were picking on him in a group and they were saying, 227 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: you have shamed us by asking that question. I've never 228 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: been I've done a lot of career days, both as 229 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: a kid and going to speak at like local schools 230 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: and stuff, and I have never been in a situation 231 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: where I thought some kid was going to be shamed 232 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: or shaming. That's strange, absolutely not. So here's the thing. 233 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: Osborne actually was pretty surprised because there was a tech 234 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: at the University College in dhar who tried the same 235 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: thing and and he saw these results in advance of 236 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: him even doing the experiment himself, and so he tried 237 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: to you know, explain them and logic them out and 238 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: came up with a couple of different theoretical explanations. Uh, 239 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 1: and then actually published the material in different journals. Right yeah. Uh. 240 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: The professor didn't believe the technician either, but he said, okay, 241 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: let's team up. Let's let's experiment with this. So here's 242 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: what they did. They did just what we described at 243 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: the top of the show. They took one glass of 244 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: water at degrees fahrenheit, and they took another glass of 245 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: boiling water, and they put them both in a freezer. 246 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: And then they said, well, by golly, by gosh, by gum, 247 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: that hotter one did turn to ice at a faster rate. 248 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: So in ninety nine they publish a paper on this 249 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: experiment in physics education, and the name of the paper 250 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: is this will be great for everyone who has to 251 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: read a lot of scientific journals. The title of this 252 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: paper is simply cool with the question mark cool to 253 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: be kind. There we go. Yeah, and then it's like 254 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: a lesson on how to believe students too. Uh. So 255 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: this result has been replicated numerous numerous times. But according 256 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: to a great article and Wired, what's up with that 257 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: Repemba effect. The thing is, the pember effect doesn't always 258 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: appear to work, and it depends on the relative temperatures 259 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: of the two liquids, So kudos the Osborne for saying 260 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: this amazing quote. He says, surprising questions are fun. They're 261 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: not to be despised. One piece that's to my credit 262 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: is that I did not despise. I went off and 263 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: researched it. High five man. I feel like I meant 264 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: like watching the end of Mr Holland's Opus or what's that? 265 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: What's the other stand and delivers Jaws Police Academy. For 266 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: all the hits about preaching hearts and minds? Um So, 267 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: where where did the part, the real part at the 268 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: end of of Mr Holland's Opus or this Mr Holland's 269 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: Opus sized version of the story when Mapemba gets his 270 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: due by having the effect and question named after him. Yeah, yeah, 271 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: it's when he published that paper in sixty nine with 272 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: Dr Osborne. Uh. He was at this time Ma Pemba 273 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: was studying at the College of African Wildlife Management, but 274 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: he never gave up his fascination with the Mapemba effect. 275 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: And how cool is it to have an effect named 276 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: after you, especially because he has so many close calls. 277 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: It could have been the Bacon effect in the car effect, 278 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: the Aristotle effect. I mean, let's be honest, he did 279 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: the least amount of work. Pemba ma, pemba. Yeah he 280 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: I mean, he's rewarded for his tenacity and standing up 281 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: and asking the question. But then, you know, there was 282 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: a lot of parallel thinking that went into this. But 283 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: I do think it's kind of cute that he got 284 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: his name attached to it. It's great. Yeah, he got 285 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, he dealt with a lot 286 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: of a lot of bullying and a lot of mean 287 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: treatment from these crappy kids, and he got to have 288 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: his I told you so a moment. But he also 289 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: seemed like a good kid, and I doubt if he 290 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: if he exercised said moment, you know what I mean. Yeah, 291 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: I have a quick question for the audience to Casey. 292 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: Don't get mad at me for asking this. If there 293 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: was a Pegram effect, what would the Pegram effect be, sir? 294 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: I think you get first response to this, the Pegram 295 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: effect it would be to pop up for a few 296 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: seconds at a time and a podcast and uh and 297 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: receive an outsize portion of attention. Foresaid brief interjections. Well, honestly, Casey, 298 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: who is in fact on the case. That's sort of 299 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: how you do at parties, you know, the pegram effect. 300 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: You sort of pop in, make a big impression and 301 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: then your ghost out like Kaiser. SoSE that's that's yeah, 302 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: that's the George castanz away. Right, you leave him one more, 303 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: you leave one more. Okay, So now we get to 304 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: we call this the science Hack part of the podcast. Yeah, 305 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: can we get a sound cute Casey, something that makes 306 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: it sound scientifically minded and like we are wearing white 307 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: lab coats, perhaps some chamber music or whatever. Yeah, I like, 308 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: I like whatever this is because it's great and uh 309 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: curated by hand by super brooster Casey, which is this 310 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: is one of my favorite trust falls in the podcasting 311 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: because Casey always kills it. So yeah, it turns out 312 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: that we still don't know. We just know what everybody 313 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: has agreed to call this thing. And like you said, 314 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: earlier and old scientists have come up with a bunch 315 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: of different explanations, but none of them are one solving 316 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: the case. The most straightforward explanation is this, and it's 317 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: the idea that hot water evaporates more than cold water, 318 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: So when boiling water cools down, it's losing a little 319 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: bit of its mass because it's turning to steam, right, 320 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: it floats away. And then if that is the case, 321 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: then hot water freezes faster than cold water just because 322 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: there's less of it, the same way that like a 323 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: couple of water would freeze faster than say a swimming pool. 324 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: So that sounds like it works, right that. That sounds 325 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: like it's a an elegant answer to the question. Or 326 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: is it? Because there's a problem with this theory, remember 327 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: not all of them. What's the problem with this one? Yeah? 328 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there are there is some math 329 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: that uh shows that this evaporation principle is in fact 330 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: a thing, But that only accounts for a part of 331 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: this supposed pemba effect, uh. And there have to be 332 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: other things at play, right, I mean the pemba uh 333 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: he he you know, let's give him a little credit here. 334 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: He did, you know, I sort of gave him a 335 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: hard time in this in the fashion of some of 336 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: these Tanzanian schoolboys. And boy, boy, do I feel like 337 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: a hell I'm ashamed of myself now. But he did 338 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: do some testing himself, right, and he measured the mass 339 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: uh loss to evaporation in that experiment. Um. But he 340 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: found that it wasn't quite enough to explain the observable effects, 341 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: right that the that the hot water froze quicker than 342 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: the cold water. So there's a lot of other ideas 343 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: of play, or at least a few that are super important. 344 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: One is the dissolved gases actually change waters freezing point, 345 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: or um the surrounding environment of the water could actually 346 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: have an effect on the outcome. Right. Yeah, those both 347 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: makes sense, and in some cases they're the explanation. The 348 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: problem is that most of those explanations only apply in 349 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: a limited set of cases and one other plots wast here. 350 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: Now that we've now that we've built up the Pemba 351 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: effect in the story of Rastom Pemba, Uh, we should 352 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: go ahead and and throw in a turn. You see, 353 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: some scientists aren't even convinced the Mpemba effect is real annoying, right, yeah, 354 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: it really throws a wrench into our whole thesis here. Yeah, 355 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: we we have were pretty deep into the episode now 356 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: to drop that one. Yeah, it's true. So the thing 357 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: about the paper cool that Mpemba and Osborne published is 358 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: that it has these very extreme differences in freezing time 359 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: between hot water and cold water, and literally no one 360 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: has been able to recreate those specific differences. Since there's 361 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: a really great line to that. That for me sums 362 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: up you know, science, and it just says, uh, science 363 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: is always complicated. I would tend to agree with that. 364 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: But the thing is, there are so many different factors 365 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,959 Speaker 1: that could contribute to different results in these experiments. Uh, 366 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: and and this this effect that it's almost impossible to 367 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: measure them all, I guess, and that sort of the deal. 368 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: It's tough. There are a lot of variables at play. Uh. 369 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, scientists at the edge of 370 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: research can be somewhat oppositional and passionate, and they want 371 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: to argue back and forth to find the correct answer. 372 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: There was a paper in twenty sixteen by Henry Burridge 373 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: and Paul Lindon. That's right, that's how how recent this 374 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: debate remains. Uh. The Linden and Burridge were writing for 375 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: the University of Cambridge and they said there is quote 376 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: no evidence to support meaningful observations of the mat Pemba effect. 377 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: They think it's misleading. They think we're misinterpreting. They think 378 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: the Pemba effect is a red herring, and that they're 379 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: just slight inaccuracies and measurements. That's the thing. What are 380 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: we measuring when we say freezes faster, right, that's the issue. 381 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: We're talking about the time it takes to get to uh, 382 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: the freezing point, or the time it takes for it 383 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: to become completely frozen over. And there's different time frames 384 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: where these things can happen, right, Yeah, absolutely, Like if 385 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: you froze two things in a in a freezer, even 386 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: if it was two glasses of water the same exact temperature, 387 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't they potentially not go through the same exact process 388 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: at the same exact time. Couldn't have to do with 389 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: the particular zone that they're in in the freezer. Maybe 390 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: there's colder spots or something like. Again, no science expert here, 391 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: but it does occur to me that in my fridge, 392 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: for example, if I have something closer to the back 393 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: of the fridge, it's gonna even freeze a little bit 394 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: in the refrigera rad and then the stuff close to 395 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: the front doesn't. So there's definitely variations in temperature in 396 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: what would be a consumer fridge, which is what he 397 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: was using for this original experiment when he originally observed 398 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: this phenomena, Right, yeah, I think that's a good I 399 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: think that's a really good point. It's strange because it 400 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: is very difficult to measure this. For instance, in that 401 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: paper where they argue there's no such thing as the 402 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: Ma Pembo effect, the scientists say there's a ten percent 403 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: inaccuracy when you measure the height of a thermometer when 404 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: you're taking the water's temperature, and that could trick someone 405 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: into thinking that they have observed this effect. Just for 406 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: the record, that papers argument is still pretty controversial, and 407 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: many many scientists say, okay, let's not let's not throw 408 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: out the baby with the ma pembo water. It's still 409 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: it's still very difficult, and that's why Pemba effect experiments, 410 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: even if you do want your own house or at 411 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: your own secret underground oratory, that's why you may find 412 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: different results from one experiment to the next. Here's the kicker. 413 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: Even when procedures are repeated with with with what appears 414 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: to be the exact same conditions, that's tough, you know. 415 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: And then people argue over definitions just like you were 416 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: bringing up and only say, like when we say something 417 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: freezes faster, are we saying the time it just reaches 418 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: the first freezing point at the time when it completely freezes. 419 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: I mean, what, what what are we talking about? You know? Well, 420 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: so my takeaway from this podcast episode today is that 421 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: science is a sham um and school children are smarter 422 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: than scientists, right yeah, yeah, overthrow the academy. Uh, shout 423 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: out to all the scientists in the crowd. I'm just kidding. 424 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: You guys are great. We need you, Yeah, we need you. 425 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: Please don't leave the country. And at least yeah, and 426 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: if your teacher is letting you listen to this in class, uh, 427 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: than kudos to them, because you have a great teacher exactly. 428 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: You have like a doctor Osborne, kind of wonderful taste 429 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: in human beings, subject matter, a paragon of what it 430 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: means to teach, you know. Uh. Probably your teacher probably 431 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: also is very good looking, really funny, smells great, all 432 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: of that stuff. How much are we gonna pander here? 433 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: I think I think we've I think we've pandered ourselves 434 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: into a corner back. We reached peak pander I think 435 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: we have, and we've reached peak podcast as well. I 436 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: think we can get close to wrapping up this tale today, 437 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: can't we ben Yeah, we can. We just want to 438 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: end on an epilogue with my pemba with what happens 439 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: to Erasto himself. So, as we said, he is not 440 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: working in physics education. He started working at the Ivory 441 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: Room in Dar s Salam. He was working with wildlife 442 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: and he originally wanted to be a doctor, but there 443 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 1: were financial problems to pay for the training, so wildlife 444 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: management was the best way for him to get an 445 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: overseas scholarship. Is it mayored as the Ivory Room selling 446 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: the name of a very exclusive night club, like the 447 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: Viper Room or something? Sure? Yeah, yeah, And then across 448 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 1: town you have the Ebony Room. Yeah, Like Ivory Room 449 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: sounds like maybe something a Victorian era tycoon has in 450 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: their mansion. These will adjourn to the Ivory Room. And 451 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: just just a backtrack really quick. My reference to the 452 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: Ebany Room was just going full circle to Michael Jackson. 453 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: Uh do you remember, do you pember? The time there 454 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: we go? You got there And eventually he did achieve 455 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: his goal of of studying abroad. He got as a 456 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: degree in Australia at the Canberra College of Advanced Education. 457 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: Camera is that how you pronounced? I think that's hotly 458 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: as he has pronouncing like Melbourne exactly Melbourne and camera. 459 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: So he got a master's degree from Texas. He became 460 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: a principal Game Officer and Ministry of Natural Resources and 461 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: Tourism in the Wildlife Vision and he, after a great career, 462 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: he retired. His wife is a doctor and he when 463 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: he was asked if any of their children were physicists, 464 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: he said no, they are not doing well at all 465 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: in physics. Do you think he still enjoys a good 466 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: ice cream? I hope so, man. I I feel like 467 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: he's earned it. I think so too. You get sprinkles. 468 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: I think you get sprinkles. Oh man, what what do 469 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: you go for? Ice cream wise? What do you guys 470 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: go for? Really? Like a chocolate dip, like the old 471 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: dairy Queen hard hardened chocolate dip. Really fond of that. 472 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: I like like a hazel nut. Yeah, there's this Turkish 473 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: ice cream I always wanted to try, or this Turkish 474 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: ice cream like substance. Yeah. You know, my favorite ice 475 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: cream flavor is of all time was that? And it's 476 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: not a favorite for everyone. It's a it's a very 477 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: polarizing flavor. Pistachio. Pistachio. Huh I could get down with 478 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: some pistachio. How about case pegram. I'm pretty boring. I 479 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: like vanilla, I like chocolate. Um, I'm pretty easy going. 480 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: Get out. Yeah, I'll show myself. Can we can we 481 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: maybe uh convert you? Because there's I have a guy 482 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: without a sweet tooth, and I gotta tell you, even 483 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: for me, there's a lot of amazing ice cream out there. Yeah. 484 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: I was. I was in a kind of a Ben 485 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: and Jerry's phase for a while, and I had stuff 486 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: doing that. So yeah, yeah, well you know, it's it's 487 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: easy to tear through one of those things in a 488 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: single sitting. So to tell you what a good alternative 489 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: to that is, they have these new uh they're called 490 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: pint slices. They're like chocolate covered like a cross section 491 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: of one of those. So rather than eating the whole pint, 492 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: you eat a circular cut out of the pint. I 493 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: can get down with that, because the thing about the 494 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: Ben and Jerry's is they've got such variation as as 495 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, in the ripple or whatever in the texture. 496 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: One bite is not gonna give you all of the majesty, 497 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: especially when like the hard kind of chocolate chunks or 498 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: whatever that you're kind of digging for and you're like, 499 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: let me just get one more those, and then like 500 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: half the things gone. And and also they're the are 501 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: these what you're talking about? Man? The tiny cups? No, No, 502 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: they also have tiny cups. The tiny cups are great, 503 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: and that's a very good alternative to getting a because 504 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: then you can get a few of them and you 505 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: can kind of mix and match. But the pint slices 506 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: are literally like an ice cream sandwich minus the sandwich, 507 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: but they're covered in chocolate and it's like a cross 508 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: section slice of like a pint in the middle kind 509 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: of I gotta check when this out. Also, gelato, I 510 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: like a good gelot good what I think a gelato 511 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: just has more more heavy on the cream. If I'm 512 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: not mistaken, it feels silkier, smoother. Yeah, maybe that's just 513 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: the way it's been sold here in the US. Also 514 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: last week, unrelated ice cream fact. I love this. I 515 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: think we may have talked about a previous episode. But 516 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: hoggin Dawes doesn't mean anything. The term is just made 517 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: up because the people who created Hoggin DAWs wanted it 518 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: to sound fancy. It has umluds in it. You can't 519 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: just put um louds in things. Ben. Sorry, man, we 520 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: live in a society that the memes were right. Like 521 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: the band motor Head you knows, been pronounced it as 522 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: you were supposed to, it would be muter hid great. 523 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: I hope it haunts them. Uh yeah, well r I 524 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: p Letty, Yes, r I p Letty and huge thanks 525 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: to Rasco Ma Pemba. I hope we all find this 526 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: story inspiring because it means that no matter where you 527 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: are in life, no matter who you are in life, 528 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: you can you can genuinely make a difference. And you 529 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: can do that just by paying attention to the world 530 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: around you and sticking to your guns. So that's that's 531 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: the takeaway from this, at least on my end, you know. 532 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: And then we gotta get yeah, Casey some we We're 533 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: gonna get you some weird ice cream. Man, We're gonna 534 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: get you some some We're getta get weird with it. 535 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: Look forward to it. And also science is a sham. 536 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for tuning in high five years Science 537 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: teacher if they were playing this episode uh in class. 538 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: As always, a big, big thanks to our super producer 539 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram and all the weird ice cream as in 540 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: his future. Thanks Alex Williams who composed that slap and 541 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: track at the beginning of the show. Thanks to Christopher 542 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: the Iceman hasiotas here in spirit as always, Jonathan the 543 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: devil Man uh Strickland who lords over us in in 544 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: the form of some sort of toxic you know, mi 545 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: asthma that just kind of like follows us around like 546 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: a Charlie Brown dark cloud. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and uh 547 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: thanks to Gabe Young Frosty Lousier. Thanks of course to 548 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: Eve's waffle Cone Jeff Coach check out her podcast This 549 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: Day in History Class, and big thanks to you my 550 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: friend Ben Jamaica Almond Fudge Boland. Hey, thanks to you know, 551 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: Hazeling the pistachio Brown Hazeling the pistachio And now that 552 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: sounds right at my alley. It sounds like a good thing, right. 553 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. What 554 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: are your favorite ice cream flavors or what are the 555 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: weirdest ones you've ever seen? And did you like him? 556 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: How do you feel about science? Let us know. You 557 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: can check us out on soial media's of all flavors, 558 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: including Instagram, Twitter. Uh, still not doing the pinterest thing. 559 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: I think we've finally sworn off doing it. Remember at 560 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: the beginning the show, we talked about making a Pinterest 561 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: page and and we thought that was cute for about 562 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: four episodes and then we let that go. But uh, 563 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: there's still time. There's always It's a new year, and 564 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: apparently Pinterest is a great place to make a vision board, 565 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: and apparently a vision board makes your dreams come true. Yeah, 566 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: I have a vision board. Seriously, I had it for 567 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: a couple of years. Now, good for you, man. Our 568 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: good friend in front of the show, rowan newbie has 569 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: a band called vision Board but it's spelled b O 570 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: r D and it's just fantastic. But as I said, 571 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: you can find us individually as well on social media. 572 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: I am exclusively on Instagram at how Now Noel Brown 573 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: I and on Instagram and hopefully I still will be 574 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: after this next adventure I'm about to take, which you 575 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: can talk about too much right now, But I am 576 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: at Ben Boland. You can also find me on Twitter 577 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: at Ben Bolan h s w uh and I do 578 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: this like to year. But do you guys want to 579 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: go get some ice cream? Anybody? It was a little cold, well, yeah, 580 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: save for the summer now, Okay, well I'm gonna heat 581 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: it up so it'll be like, yeah, we'll see you 582 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: next time. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit 583 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 584 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.