1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:01,280 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 2: I'm Buzzsnight and welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 3 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 3: Now, before there. 4 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 2: Was a playlist, there was a room, before algorithms decided 5 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 2: what you'd hear. Next, there was Alan Pepper standing at 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: the back of the bottom Line in Greenwich Village, vetting 7 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: everything on the artists who would define generations. As owner 8 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 2: of one of New York's most legendary music venues and 9 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: the co author of Positively Forth and Mercer, Alan didn't 10 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: just book shows. He created the stage where Bruce Springsteen 11 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 2: proved he was the future, where countless careers were launched, 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: and where music history was written night after night. Today 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: we're going to dive deep into the stories behind the stage, 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: the village scene that changed everything, and what it really 15 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: takes to recognize greatness before the world catches on. And 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: with Alan will be joined by his co author Billy Altman. 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 3: Next, I've Taking a Walk Walk, Taking a Walk. 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 2: Well, Alan, it's so nice to be with you, And 19 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: Billy Altman, it's so nice to be with you on 20 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 2: the Taken a Walk Podcast. 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 4: Great to be with you. 22 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: Same here, Buzz so Allan the bottom Line, a fourth 23 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 2: and mercer in Greenwich Village, became the room in New 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: York City. 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 5: Take us back to that wild beginning. What made you 26 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 5: open a music venue in the village and what was 27 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 5: your vision from that first time. 28 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 6: Well, it's like I say in the book positively for 29 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 6: the Mercer, which Billy and I have just completed. The 30 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 6: bottom line was not only a physical place. It was 31 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 6: really a concept of how to present live music. And 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 6: it developed from years and years and working at clubs 33 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 6: and presenting music to a way that's standing. My partner 34 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 6: and I thought that music should really be presented, meaning 35 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 6: that it should be in the foreground, not the background, 36 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 6: and that it was We wanted to open a music 37 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 6: room with the thing that we were selling was not 38 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 6: food and booze, but the thing that we were selling 39 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 6: was music, and to that extent we we did. Also, 40 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 6: the concept was to have a club in what would 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 6: be like an intimate little theater. So with that in mind, 42 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 6: we actually put together a stage crew that other clubs 43 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 6: didn't have. 44 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 3: It was. 45 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 6: So new that we'd actually have two guys mixing sound, 46 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 6: one house sound, one monitors stage hands to help the 47 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 6: band in a lighting person. It was a it was 48 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 6: a full crew. I think there were six people and 49 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 6: in a club that was unheard, we had no minimum, 50 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 6: so you just had a mission when you came in 51 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 6: that sold you had to pay for. We instructed the 52 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 6: waitresses not to hassle anybody for drinks, to let them 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 6: enjoy the music, and we took the attitude that food 54 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 6: and beverage were the air if you got thirsty or hungry, 55 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 6: but under no circumstances was it something that was required. 56 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 6: We even went We got cash registers that slid open, 57 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 6: they didn't ring, and we even had heavy duty paper 58 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 6: and plastic utensils so that people went now disturbed by 59 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 6: china and silverware as somebody with somebody was performing. So 60 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 6: we really did think it out. 61 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 5: I was just going back in my brain historically, and 62 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 5: I felt like I was at that Jerry Jeff Walker 63 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 5: show at the bottom line as you. 64 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 3: Were explaining the scenario there. 65 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 5: Alan, I'm so glad that you, after talking to you 66 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 5: a few years back, that the book was able to 67 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 5: come together. 68 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 3: How did you and Billy come together on this? 69 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 4: After the club had closed In early two thousand and four, 70 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 4: I was asked to do a piece for Tracks magazine, 71 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 4: which was kind of a short lived magazine that Anthony 72 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 4: the Curtis and Alan Hite were involved in and they 73 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 4: asked me just to write up a thing about the 74 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 4: club closing and somewhat of a history. And the piece 75 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 4: came out really, really well, and I interviewed Alan for it, 76 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 4: and of course I had been going to the club. 77 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 4: My first show at the club was February, about a 78 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 4: month after the club opened in nineteen seventy four. My 79 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 4: last show coming as a patron of the club as 80 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 4: a journalist was about five weeks before the club closed 81 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 4: in early two thousand and four. So I was there 82 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 4: pretty much over the entire run of the thirty years, 83 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 4: and I went to hundreds and hundreds of shows. So 84 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 4: working on the article was a pleasure for me. I mean, 85 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 4: it was a sad moment because the club had closed, 86 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 4: but to be able to relive some of those memories 87 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 4: and then Alan can pick up the story from there. 88 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 4: Fast forward about many number of years later. 89 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 6: Well, what happened was I wanted to write this book 90 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 6: for legacy purpose because I felt Stanley and I did 91 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 6: something really special and I wanted to be a record 92 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 6: of it, and I wanted to tell that story. I 93 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 6: had made a deal with a writer not Billy somebody 94 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 6: else who was working with me, but he had a 95 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 6: family situation which upset him so much that it was 96 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 6: difficult for him to work on the book with me. 97 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 6: And then I tried to reach out for a bunch 98 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 6: of other writers, and I kept and I kept coming 99 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 6: back to that article that Billy I'd written, because it 100 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 6: made such impression on me that I actually bought several 101 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 6: copies of it and I have it to this day. 102 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 6: And from a very good friend of mine this said 103 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 6: to me when I was telling her about the difficulty 104 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 6: I was having finding a writer and I read her 105 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 6: Billy's article, she said, well, that's your writer, that's the guy. 106 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 6: So I reached out to Billy to see if he 107 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 6: was interested in he was, and we started to work together. 108 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 5: I love the pace of the book in terms of 109 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 5: all the great stories from this fascinating array of people, 110 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 5: as somebody who grew up in Stanford, Connecticut and would 111 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 5: go to New York City. A lot work in New 112 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 5: York City, so a lot of names that were very 113 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 5: familiar to me. Alan you first, and then Billy, who 114 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 5: are some of the ones in particular that you really 115 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 5: enjoyed talking to and letting them tell their stories of 116 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 5: bottom line music history. 117 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 4: Well. 118 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 6: The interesting thing well obviously Springsteen, and he was very 119 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 6: generous because he gave Billy twenty five minutes. Billy was 120 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 6: the one who did all the interview and he did 121 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 6: a great He did a great job, and he did 122 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 6: a great job translating those interviews to the written page. 123 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 6: There were so many people to interview and we only 124 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 6: got in a portion. But truthfully speaking, as Billy pointed 125 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 6: out to me time and time again, we were covering 126 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 6: thirty years of music, and so we had to be 127 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 6: very judicious in those people that we selected because, as 128 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 6: Billy pointed out to me in the beginning, because I 129 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 6: said I wanted rural history, and he said, well, if 130 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 6: you do, we've got to do it chronologically, which I 131 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 6: agreed with because May told. And the one good thing 132 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 6: that set us on a path was I had written 133 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 6: down every show that we ever did, so I have 134 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 6: from opening night till the very last night, along with 135 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 6: people who set in and ticket prices. So he gave 136 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 6: Billy a path, that gave him a guide. And then 137 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 6: he's got an extensive background in music and music history, 138 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 6: so he was able to wind through this thing. I 139 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 6: kid him because I've always said he was dealing with 140 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 6: like a musical Rubek's cue and he just had to 141 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 6: line up everything. So rather than to answer your question specifically, 142 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 6: rather than Springsteen, which I was very gratified that he 143 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 6: gave Billy the time, I was very moved by some 144 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 6: of the things that Billy told me that some of 145 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 6: the people mentioned, not only about me, bit of about 146 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 6: working at the club, and that gave me an enormous 147 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 6: amount of emotional satisfaction. Billy, you did the had me lifting. 148 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 6: So who are the people? Who are the people that 149 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 6: you enjoy. 150 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 4: Well, well, it was fascinating because, as Alan said, you know, 151 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 4: because the fact that the bottom line wasn't one particular 152 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 4: style of music, you know, anything, anything in the entertainment field, 153 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 4: uh could be on that stage from night to night. 154 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 4: It wasn't a club that was known for the scene 155 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 4: and the hangers out, and you know, it wasn't CBGB's 156 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 4: or Studio fifty four. And again because the enormous time frame. 157 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 4: So you had rock, you had folk, you had blues, 158 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 4: you had jazz, you had country, you had spoken word, 159 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 4: you had theater pieces, you had you know at cabaret 160 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 4: kind of stuff. So trying to be judicious and who 161 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 4: we spoke to. You know, we tried to get a 162 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 4: list together and Alan kept sending me endless list of 163 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 4: people not to talk to. But what was great it 164 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 4: was that almost from the very beginning, every artist that 165 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 4: we approached with I don't maybe one exception and talking 166 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 4: her over one hundred people that I talked to, everybody 167 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 4: had warm feelings about the club, had great respect for 168 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 4: Alan and Stanley about how the club was run. And 169 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 4: then talking to people that worked at the club. So 170 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 4: the great thing about being able to work on this 171 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 4: and the many interviews that we're done, is that many 172 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 4: people were excited to tell stories about things that happened 173 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 4: at the club, things that mattered to their careers. And 174 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 4: Bruce certainly was at the top of that list. But 175 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 4: then people like Darlene Love, you know, one of our 176 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 4: great great singers, and her whole path towards playing at 177 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 4: the bottom line in the early nineteen eighties and coming 178 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 4: from Los Angeles to New York and staying at Alan's 179 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 4: Alan's house and wearing some of Iileen his wife's clothing 180 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 4: because she'd come with, you know, barely a little suitcase. 181 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 4: When they were working on Leader of the Pack, the 182 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 4: great show the ultimately wound up going to Broadway. Some 183 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 4: of them were great, and some of the stories for 184 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 4: me were very, very touching. You know, in the nineties 185 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 4: when the club had their in their Own Words series 186 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 4: where it was a bunch of songwriters and they were 187 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 4: trying to mix the match songwriters, and Allan did one 188 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 4: show and you can tell you the story of how 189 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 4: it happened. But Roger mcgwinn from The Birds and Pete 190 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 4: Seeger did one show together, and this was in nineteen 191 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 4: ninety three and nineteen ninety four. Remarkably, it was the 192 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 4: first time that the two of them had ever been 193 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 4: on his stage together. When you could think about the 194 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 4: fact that The Birds said, of course had a giant 195 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 4: hit with Pete Seger's Turn, Turn in Turn in nineteen 196 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 4: sixty five. But then it turned out that Pete Seeger 197 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 4: had been one of mcgwinn's idols from when he was 198 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 4: a kid growing up in Chicago and taking banjo lessons 199 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 4: at the Chicago School of Music. And Roger was able 200 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 4: to give me almost a minute by minute rundown of 201 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 4: the whole day of that performance, of spending the afternoon 202 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 4: with Pete Seegar going out to dinner at the Minetta 203 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 4: Tavern in the middle of the village, and then he 204 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 4: mentioned to me, he said, it was raining out and 205 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 4: I bought a ten dollars umbrella on the street. He says, 206 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 4: I still have it. It's just in the corner of 207 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 4: the room. It's the Pete Seger Memorial umbrella. So some 208 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 4: of those very touching stories meant a lot to me, 209 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 4: you know, as a journalist and just a music fan, 210 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 4: and to hear these wonderful, wonderful connections. Also, John Hyatt 211 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 4: was wonderful to talk to. He's a really funny guy 212 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 4: and he was terrific. I can share one great story 213 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 4: from the book that he shares. He talks about coming 214 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 4: to play in New York. And you know, as a 215 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 4: struggling singer songwriter, and you know, if you stay at 216 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 4: a hotel, you know the record company would book it 217 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 4: for you and charge it to you. So as many 218 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 4: young people, and Alan can tell you much more than 219 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 4: me about this, many people wouldn't stay at the hotel, 220 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 4: they'd stay with a friend or something. And Hyatt would 221 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 4: come to New York. He had a friend who moved 222 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 4: up from New York from Nashville, who had been an 223 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 4: opera trained singer, a classical singer, who then wound up 224 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 4: on Broadway in Sweeney Todd as one of the villains 225 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 4: in Sweeney Todd. And he was a good friend of John's. 226 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 4: And so he said that he told me that he 227 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 4: he you know, he was staying with his friend and 228 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 4: he said to him, he said, listen, you think I 229 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 4: should take voice lessons. And his friend said, you never 230 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 4: never take voice lessons, and so Hyat says, but I 231 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 4: told him, but you know, I can't sing, and he said. 232 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 4: His friend said, I know, but you still shouldn't take 233 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 4: voice lessons because whatever that little thing that you have 234 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 4: will get ruined if you took voice lessons. So there 235 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 4: was such surprises when when I was able to interview 236 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 4: some of these remarkable people, uh, you know, running from 237 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 4: like I said, from Doylene Love uh to uh, you know, 238 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 4: to Bill Chef, the comedy writer for David Letterman, to 239 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 4: Paul Schaeffer, Uh, to Lenny White, the great great jazz 240 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 4: fusion drummer who played in Mals Davis's Pitches Crew. 241 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 3: Uh. 242 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 4: To Betty Buckley, the great Broadway star. So that's how 243 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 4: wide Arnette was for this book. 244 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 6: And some of the stories. Billy took to Joey Stefko, 245 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 6: who was the drumma with meat Loaf, and he sheds 246 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 6: a lot of interesting stuff about me. Loaf and flowing 247 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 6: Eddie in the turtles and flowing Eddie at the bottom 248 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 6: line was always one of my favorite holiday traditions. I 249 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 6: think they played ten Christmas New Year's Evening and Howard 250 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,359 Speaker 6: Kalin occupies several pages in the book and it's hilarious. 251 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 6: I mean, I've read this stuff over and over again. 252 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 6: I still laugh when I'm going back and read reading 253 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 6: and stuff, you know, buzz. As easy as somebody might 254 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 6: think writing a book like this is, it's not. I mean, 255 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 6: it took Billy and I think a couple of years 256 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 6: to put it together, and I had been working on 257 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 6: it on my own for several years. But the advantage, 258 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 6: although it was painful, the advantage of working with somebody 259 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 6: like Billy. He's a discipline journeyman. He's a great writer, 260 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 6: and so he and I had moments of great fiction 261 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 6: when he basically schooled me. You know, he said there 262 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 6: were certain things that I brought to the table that 263 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 6: I felt certain about, and he pointed out to me 264 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 6: on many occasions that you have to let He didn't 265 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 6: want it to be a thousand page home and he 266 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 6: very clearly pointed out to me, you have to let 267 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 6: certain people speak for the rest of everybody. You can't 268 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 6: interview every waitress, you can't interview every stage manager. And 269 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 6: even when it came to music. I mean, there were 270 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 6: times along the way that I felt that we were 271 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 6: missing the boat. But he constructed such a roadmap. He's 272 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 6: done an amazing job the more and you can tell 273 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 6: that by the accolades we've been receiving by people who 274 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 6: were reading the book. Everybody talks about how well written 275 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 6: it is. Tip of the hat to Billy. They took 276 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 6: about how well organized it is, and how it's what 277 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 6: the flow of it is. All of that, I mean, 278 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 6: all of that is from Billy. But it ain't easy, 279 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 6: and both of us have the scars to prove it. 280 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 6: But it was I mean, there were let me put 281 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 6: to you this way, there were still three more books 282 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 6: at least that could be done because it was just 283 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 6: too much to cover. 284 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say that, you know, we had spirited conversation. 285 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 4: We'll put it out. Well, one thing I will say, 286 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 4: is that because Alan is such a great fan and 287 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 4: so passionate about music and about artists, that he showed 288 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 4: me pathways in terms of who we would go to 289 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 4: speak to. And I think he had a sense of 290 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 4: which people would be able to really give me good 291 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 4: stories and help us move through different different areas of time, 292 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 4: different styles of music that would help, that would help 293 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 4: make a work. And you know, again, one of the 294 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 4: great challenges of the book is the book is as 295 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 4: much about New York and the scene, New York music 296 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 4: scene and radio in the industry. Uh So being able 297 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 4: to kind of get all of those, but Allen's connections 298 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 4: and is ongoing friendships with everybody on Earth, world's biggest 299 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 4: rolodex perhaps really helped clear clear that path for me 300 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 4: a lot, because I knew going in that the people 301 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 4: that we would be approaching would be forthcoming, which, of course, 302 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 4: for a book like this is incredibly incredibly important. 303 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 6: But let me let me just say this, when we 304 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 6: sat down, you know, when you're when you're trying to 305 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 6: find a writer, it's a dance. Just like if you're quoting, 306 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 6: if you're dating a new person in your life, you're 307 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 6: kind of getting to know them but it's a dance 308 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 6: to see if you two could actually dance well together. 309 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 6: And I sat down with him and I said, okay, look, 310 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 6: there are certain things that I'm really sure about. I 311 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 6: wanted to be in oral history because I didn't see 312 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 6: doing a story the bottom line without the voices of 313 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 6: the people who were there. So I said, not only 314 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 6: the musicians, but the customers and the people who work there. 315 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 6: And I said, the other thing that I'm really sure 316 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 6: about is I want there to be presents in this 317 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 6: book of my partner who's no longer here to fill 318 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 6: in the story, and my wife who's been very important 319 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 6: to me as amuse, and you know, somebody that I 320 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 6: connected with it an early an early age of around music. Actually, 321 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 6: I said, I wanted their their presence to be in 322 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 6: the in the book. And then the last thing I 323 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 6: said is I don't want it to be a bunch 324 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 6: of funny stories that happened at the club to show 325 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 6: how wacky people are. I wanted to have a narrative. 326 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 6: I wanted to be a beginning, middle, and end, and 327 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 6: along the way will include the wacky stories and will 328 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 6: include people's videosyncrasies. But to me, it's got to have. 329 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 6: It's got to have a narrative, and those are things 330 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 6: we never argued about. Those are things that he brought 331 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 6: into immediately. In fact, one of the things in retrospect 332 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 6: when I look back at him, he was very committed 333 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 6: to giving me exactly what I want and sometimes I 334 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 6: didn't see it, but very protective of me. So the 335 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 6: book is very much a what I wanted it to 336 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 6: be and b what my initial vision was, which is 337 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 6: pretty remarkable when you think of all the ways we 338 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 6: could have just gone, you're off in different directions. So 339 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 6: I'm very pleased and very happy, and I'm most gratified 340 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 6: by the response it's getting, not only from people who 341 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 6: worked at the club, but fans of the club. I'm 342 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 6: getting emails from people who are still saying I'm reading 343 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 6: the book, I'm loving it. I just want you to 344 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 6: know how much I'm enjoying how much I'm enjoying the book. 345 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 6: So I'm very happy with the way everything turned out. 346 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taken a 347 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 348 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 5: Well, since we call this podcast has Taken a Walk, 349 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 5: I have to ask you both a little bit of 350 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 5: a lightning round question here because there's so many characters 351 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 5: that are in the book that were part of the 352 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 5: bottom line. So alan you first, if you could take 353 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 5: a dream walk with someone, who would you take a 354 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 5: walk with? I don't care where it is, Maybe it's 355 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 5: around where the bottom line was situated, But who would 356 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 5: you take that walk with? 357 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 3: And then Billy, same to you. 358 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 6: I would take it with my partner Stanley and my wife. 359 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 6: I lean, you know, hands down. 360 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 4: It would you through all history or from the bottom line. 361 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: Whatever you wish, But I think will lean bottom line. 362 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 4: I would. I would envision that Buddy Holly did not 363 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 4: die in his plane crash, and that he was still 364 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 4: living on fifty Avenue and eighth Street, right by the 365 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 4: arch of Washington Square Park and would and he would 366 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 4: talk about shows that he went to at the club 367 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 4: as an older guy. Things were so horrific there. 368 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 3: That would be pretty amazing. I love your imagination, Billy, 369 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 3: for sure. 370 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 6: Hey, buzz, I just want to point out something to you. 371 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 6: Something that I pointed out to Billy early on, but 372 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 6: he didn't need me to point out with the bottom 373 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 6: line was on that corner directly across the street was 374 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 6: folks sitting that was the place that Dylan got that review, 375 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 6: I believe. So Dylan basically found his commercial voice on 376 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 6: one corner was Fourth of Mercia and Bruce Springsteen on 377 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 6: a parallel corner. So that's a very historically speaking, that's 378 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 6: a very valuable piece of musical real estate. 379 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, and thing one thing that's amazing in the book 380 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 4: is as Alan talks about one of the Springsteen shows 381 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 4: and they were completely sold out because there was such 382 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 4: a buzz about it. And Allan told me the story 383 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 4: of a woman who came up and wanted to get 384 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 4: in and there was no room. It was standing room 385 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 4: all and they had already squeezed them like sardine's anybody 386 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 4: they could. And the woman actually said that to Alan, 387 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 4: she said, you know, years ago, ten years ago, way 388 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 4: fifteen years ago, right across the street, Bob Jellen had 389 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 4: his show at Folks City, and I can't. I have 390 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 4: to get in to see now Springsteen doing something that's 391 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 4: going to maybe mean as much. And they squeezed her 392 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 4: in like a sardine. Both Stanley and I pushed her, 393 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 4: pushed her in. But she was an older woman. She 394 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 4: wasn't a teenager. She was somebody in her mid thirties, 395 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 4: and she literally started to cry on this street corner 396 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 4: and we said, okay, you're gonna wind up hearing much 397 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 4: more than you're going to see, and we just pushed 398 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 4: her in like two guys unloading furniture and a big truck. 399 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 2: You know, I had an episode I recorded with Danny 400 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 2: Fields the character of all characters from the. 401 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: Ramones and lou Reid and so much history. 402 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 5: So we were walking through the area and he certainly 403 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 5: lamented what he missed in terms of, you know so much, 404 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 5: you know, great energy and great vibes in the day. 405 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 5: Have you both been around that neighborhood lately, and how 406 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 5: do you feel when you're by there thinking of what 407 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 5: was and what is no longer there? 408 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 4: It's just a loss, you know. I lived in the 409 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,959 Speaker 4: village throughout the nineteen eighties and then was living up 410 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 4: near West Point, about fifty miles north of New York. 411 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 4: But my joiner, over the last number of years I'd 412 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 4: been living herself in Greenwich Village and anytime I'd walk 413 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 4: through the park and go through the corner there, and 414 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 4: you just feel a loss of the culture of New York. 415 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 4: And obviously, you know, cities changed neighborhoods change the neighborhood, 416 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 4: it physically is still the same. Washington Square Park is 417 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 4: still there in the middle of everything. But just to 418 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 4: know that, you could be veering down the street on 419 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 4: Mercer and you get to the corner there and it's 420 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 4: just another building and there's you know, there's there's no 421 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 4: sign up there, and there's no plaque or anything like that, 422 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 4: and so I always feel that, but you also feel 423 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 4: I get a flood of memories. So when I go by, 424 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 4: it's bittersweet on some levels. You know, It's like it's 425 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 4: like when you go buy an apartment building, if anybody 426 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,479 Speaker 4: that's lived in apartment buildings, there's you walk past an 427 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 4: apartment building that you used to live in, and you 428 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 4: go gee, and you feel bad that you don't live 429 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 4: there anymore, because you might have loved living there, but 430 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 4: you know you wouldn't have stayed living there. So I 431 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 4: think the passage of time for me has made it 432 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 4: more bitter sweet. I certainly for the first number of 433 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 4: years after the club was closed, you just walk away 434 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 4: and start clenching your fists, like, like, how could n 435 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 4: YU have kicked these people out of there? My god? 436 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 6: So I am I actually have friends and acquaintances and 437 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 6: tell me that they can't walk up that block. Then 438 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 6: they'll take a different route rather and it'll take them 439 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 6: a little longer, but they'll take a different route to 440 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 6: get to where they're going because it's still so painful 441 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 6: to them after all this time. It was interesting when 442 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 6: we were fighting NYU over the lease and the trying 443 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 6: to stay there, we were getting or they were getting 444 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 6: emails from people, and one student wrote to them and said, 445 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 6: I'm so disgusted with the way you've treated the bottom line. 446 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 6: But more than that, I'm disgusted when I walked through 447 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 6: the village and I see your banners on all these 448 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 6: different buildings. It's like it's become your fifdom. And that 449 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 6: was from a student. The guy who was the president 450 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 6: at that time did not see the value of what 451 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 6: it was offering the student body and the city. He 452 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 6: saw it just as a prime piece of real estate 453 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 6: that they weren't getting enough rent for and that it 454 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 6: was severely undermarket, whereas the president before looked at the 455 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 6: club as something of value for the university to support 456 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 6: as well. You know, our fate was based on the 457 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 6: guy who took over. 458 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 5: You know, well, knowing what you know now of NYU, 459 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 5: don't you sometimes think, well, maybe in the current environment, 460 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 5: the way they have embraced aspects of the community and 461 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 5: the way they've diversified everything that they do as an 462 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 5: educational institution, that maybe they would have thought about it 463 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 5: differently today. 464 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 6: Yes, I absolutely do, and that's a very good point. 465 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:50,959 Speaker 6: I've absolutely thought about that. At the time, you know, 466 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 6: we were working feverishly to try and come up with 467 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,719 Speaker 6: a solution, and we were offering them especially because the 468 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 6: Clive Davis School, and we were offering them internships. We 469 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 6: were offering them a lot of things that would have 470 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 6: been of value to the students who were in that program. 471 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 6: And to them it was all about rent. They didn't 472 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 6: want to hear about anything else. But yes, and that 473 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 6: was the vision of the guy who was in charge. 474 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 6: But as you point out, time goes by, new people 475 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 6: take over and people tend to see stuff differently. So yes, 476 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 6: I absolutely think if there was a different administration there. Listen, 477 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 6: Just to set this record straight, n YU was not 478 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 6: wrong in wanting back rent that was due to them, 479 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 6: and they were not wrong, and they were not wrong 480 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 6: about trying to move ahead to resolve the situation, but 481 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 6: at the same time where I think they might have 482 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 6: been a little bit mistaken. There were better ways to 483 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 6: resolve this situation, and once again the guy who's making 484 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 6: the decisions made the decision. That eviction was. You know, 485 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 6: we had actually made a deal with them, but and 486 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 6: send the book. We actually made a deal with them, 487 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 6: but at the last minute they came to us with 488 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 6: something that was so gregious that we that we couldn't 489 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 6: go along with them. 490 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 5: So and you had what would have been a burgeoning 491 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 5: affiliation with serious XM. That would have been part of 492 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 5: the future as well. I mean it would have that 493 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 5: would allowed for you know, other creative outlets for sure. 494 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 6: Yes, and I was there was a discussion going on. Yeah, 495 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 6: I won't even get into it. Yes, that could have 496 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 6: been very valuable to everybody, but it was not meant 497 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 6: to be. 498 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 5: Do you sometimes wonder now in the future whether NYU 499 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 5: is going to have this book be part of a 500 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 5: course curriculum around the history of music around where the 501 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 5: university is. I could imagine that. 502 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 6: I could too, depending on who the depend there and 503 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 6: who the instructors. 504 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, Well, I have a feeling either one of 505 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 5: you or both of you would somehow have your fingers 506 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 5: on and if that occurred, is that is my imagination 507 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 5: gone wild. 508 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 6: I would encourage NYU to to use this book as 509 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 6: part of the curriculum and order a lot of books. 510 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 6: I would would I would have them make a required 511 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 6: reading from many of their classes. 512 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,239 Speaker 5: I think that's marvelous. I want to touch on the 513 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 5: radio side of things, having been an observer of it 514 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 5: and then a part of it as a part timer 515 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 5: there in New York for w n e WFM. 516 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: And then over the years seeing other markets where radio 517 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 2: stations had these incredible collaborations with clubs. Talk about the 518 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 2: significance of w n WFM to the bottom line. 519 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 6: Any W was very very important to me first as 520 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 6: a fan, I started listening to a W way before 521 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 6: the bottom line was open. And historically speaking, any W 522 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 6: along with FM radio comes at a very interesting time 523 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 6: because you have Woodstock and you have the success of Woodstock, 524 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 6: which advertised basically on FM radio. The success of Woodstock 525 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 6: showed record companies that there was a major audience out 526 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 6: there that they were not reaching a potential audience, and 527 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 6: this audience was being nurtured by FM radio. It was 528 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 6: training a radio used to play songs that were two 529 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 6: and three minutes long and two and a half minutes long. 530 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 6: FM radio was playing album cuts. They weren't just playing singles, 531 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 6: and they were playing much longer tracks, and in that sense, 532 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 6: they were cultivating an audience and teaching an audience how 533 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 6: to listen as opposed to having a very short attention 534 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 6: span wanting to go from one song to another song. 535 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 6: And FM radio was also didn't have any borders. They 536 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 6: play all kinds of music. You could go from jazz 537 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 6: to folk to rock and any w was very successful 538 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 6: at doing stuff like that. You could have Led Zeppelin 539 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 6: and Billie Holiday to whatever. So it was cultivating again 540 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 6: and appreciation of all different kinds of music to young 541 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 6: to younger people. And if you look at how the 542 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 6: albums were marketed at that point, the covers were fascinating, 543 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 6: the liner notes were interesting, and history music started to 544 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 6: play into this too in terms of liner notes, in 545 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 6: terms of origins of certain certain stuff and reference for 546 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 6: older musicians who came before. And what started happening is 547 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 6: AM radio would basically be playing things by writers from 548 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 6: the brill building. EFILM Radio was playing songs that were 549 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 6: written by young guys who went out to get a 550 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 6: guitar and to and to see if they could do 551 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 6: it by virtue of seeing the Beatles, and so there 552 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 6: was a whole change that was happening. So we wanted 553 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 6: to do live what any w was doing on the air. 554 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 6: We wanted to be the live version of what that 555 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 6: radio station was doing. So I went from a fan 556 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 6: being very excited to meet someone like Pete Fournetel, who 557 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,839 Speaker 6: was one of the first people that I connected with, 558 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 6: to having deep relationships with Vince Skelsa and mc griffin 559 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 6: and a whole lot of other people who populated that 560 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 6: radio station. Dennis Elsi's Tom Morera. I knew all those people, 561 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,879 Speaker 6: but I knew them as friends. I didn't know them 562 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 6: just as somebody who that I would I would listen to. 563 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 6: That station was so important to me to tell me 564 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 6: discover music, to help me learn its a little. I 565 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 6: remember I've told him this. I remember being my home 566 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 6: doing something and hearing this song write aloud and Wainwright 567 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 6: sing a song called Motel Blues, and I in the 568 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 6: middle of my living room, I couldn't move, straining to 569 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 6: hear every lyric, every part of the lyric that he 570 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 6: was singing. Those things didn't happen on an AM radio. 571 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 6: They only happened on FM radio. So Eddie w was 572 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 6: quite important to me. 573 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 4: And let me point out that that I think what 574 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 4: Alan was just talking about really speaks to what the 575 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 4: bottom Line offered us throughout its entire existence. Alan's passion 576 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 4: for music and wanting to share it with people. In 577 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 4: other words, it wasn't just sitting their dollars and cents. 578 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 4: We're going to get this pract coming in, We're going 579 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 4: to make this much money this week, although Stanley's partners 580 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 4: only wanted to watch the Pennies and the Nichols. But 581 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 4: the idea is that Alan's lifelong job on the planet 582 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 4: in many respects, but a great deal of it has 583 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 4: been to turn people onto music that he thinks they 584 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 4: should be turned on. So and of course Alan, you know, 585 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 4: one of his great heroes was Bill Graham, you know, 586 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 4: who did the same. That's what Bill Graham did at 587 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 4: the film Wore, you know, and he tried to just 588 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 4: put act shows together with different kinds of music to 589 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 4: get people interested in As Alan was saying, FM radio 590 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 4: throughout the late sixties and early seventies up to really 591 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 4: kind of the end of the seventies, I would say 592 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 4: especially was a place where you could hear just about anything. 593 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 4: You didn't have to go from from station to station 594 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 4: to hear different kinds of music. If you listen for 595 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 4: a half an hour to WNW or some of the 596 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 4: other stations later, you know, you would hear this mix 597 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 4: of everything. And the bottom line, as Alan said, wanted 598 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 4: to present that on stage every single night, so that 599 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 4: whatever whatever act was playing, the bottom line that night, 600 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 4: that's what the club was. It could be a jazz 601 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 4: club one night, it could be a folk club the 602 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 4: next night. It could be a rock and roll club 603 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 4: the next night. It'd be a comedy club the night 604 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 4: after that. And I think it all just spoke to 605 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 4: Alan's passion as a fan of music. And I've spoken 606 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 4: about this before a lot of the most memorable clubs, 607 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 4: especially in a city like New York, were bar owners 608 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 4: who started presenting music. You know it as the music 609 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 4: came to them, and they just started presenting acts because 610 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 4: it helped bring more people in, et cetera. It's et cetera. 611 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 4: But Alan and Stanley wanted to present the listening room 612 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 4: from the word go, and it was the music that 613 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 4: was the driving force, and I think because of that, 614 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 4: their respect for artists and audiences really setting. Buzz. You've 615 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 4: probably been to a million clubs yourself. You know, there's 616 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 4: a lot of club owners we've met over the years 617 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 4: who really don't like the audience that much. There are 618 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 4: club owners who really don't like the music acts that much. 619 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 4: They think everything's necessary evil to keep everything going. And 620 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 4: at the bottom line, that was never what it was about. 621 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 4: It was about respect for the customer and respect for 622 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 4: the artist. Buzz. 623 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 6: I'll tell you an interesting story. 624 00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 4: You know, I. 625 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 6: Take this stuff very personally, and you know, I try 626 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 6: to put acts on that I thought. My whole key 627 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 6: was you put on an opening act that nobody's ever 628 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 6: heard of, and hopefully they do so well that the 629 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 6: audience who came to see the headliner walks out talking 630 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 6: about the opening act. So the pairings who were very 631 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 6: important to me were as Vince Skels always as the 632 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 6: perfect segue. And when I mismatched, and I did mismatch, 633 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 6: I took that very personally. So there was one show 634 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 6: where I mismatched so badly based on a misconception of 635 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 6: what I thought the music was about that it wouldn't 636 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 6: come out of my office during the when the artists. 637 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 6: Usually I'd go downstairs during the intermission, I'd see people, 638 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,399 Speaker 6: I'd schmooze, I'd hang out. I was so embarrassed at 639 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 6: my mismatch. I just stayed upstairs. I did not want 640 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 6: to walk around down says, That's how personally I took 641 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 6: this stuff. 642 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 3: You know what was the mismatch, Allen? 643 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 6: Oh, you don't want to know. 644 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 2: Oh, I desperately want to know, because that's some of 645 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 2: the fun of I'm sure thinking about this historically. 646 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 6: You know who Betty Davis was. 647 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:19,720 Speaker 3: Betty Davis. 648 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 6: Yeah, not the actress. No, Betty Davis was for all 649 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 6: intent of purposes, she lived with Miles Davis and I 650 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,959 Speaker 6: think was married to him. Betty Davis was the one 651 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 6: who basically pushed Miles in the direction of not only 652 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 6: going electric, but you know, to reaching out and to 653 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 6: incorporate much more of what was happening. She turned them 654 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 6: on to sly, she turned them onto a lot of 655 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 6: stuff that she thought he should be aware. And so 656 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 6: basically for that creative period she was amused on a 657 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 6: lot of levels, all right. And she was a performer 658 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 6: who sang, but she come out on the stage and 659 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 6: do one of those fuck me you know, like whatever whatever, 660 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 6: you know, really pushing the envelope to a point of whoa, 661 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 6: what is what is this? And I paired her with 662 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 6: an older gentleman who played jazz piano and had a 663 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 6: gospel thing happening or blues thing happening, Lis McCann. So 664 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 6: Liss McCann was during an older audience that was like 665 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 6: totally into jazz, and Les McCann was doing a certain 666 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 6: kind of thing. Betty Davis was on the suck it 667 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 6: fucked me, yeah, and holy shit, Holy moly, you knew. 668 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 3: Something was a little awry. Oh my god. 669 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 5: Well that probably she probably taught Miles the trick of 670 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 5: turning his back on everybody. 671 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 6: I imagine that that he's already learned a long time before. 672 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 2: I know. Yeah, where are the tapes from the liven 673 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 2: w F broadcast? 674 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 3: Does anybody know? 675 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 6: Monk Chernoff told me that at the point. 676 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,919 Speaker 3: Am I gonna cry? Am I gonna cry? At this? Alan? No? 677 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 6: No, no. He told me that some of the he 678 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 6: he intervened and just spoke to somebody there and said, 679 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 6: you can't destroy a lot of this stuff. And he 680 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:30,399 Speaker 6: said theoretically they're stored somewhere. He knows, he knows where 681 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 6: it is. I don't, but I have. We've put out 682 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 6: a number of bottom line shows on record, and several 683 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 6: of those were the anew broadcast taking taking Look. 684 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember they were. There was a limited run 685 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 3: of them, right, yeah. 686 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 6: And so those like the Harry Champion Show, which was wonderful, 687 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 6: Kenny Rankin, there's a lot. And then we have a 688 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 6: lot of stuff in our archives because I have a 689 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 6: lot of those tapes that we can't get clearance for. 690 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 6: We have a phenomenal which you can call it a 691 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 6: hold and O show with a sound fabulous, and you know, 692 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 6: we can't get clearance. And we have Billy Joel. You know, 693 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 6: we have a lot of really good stuff and we 694 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 6: just can't get clearance on any of it. 695 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 4: And there's also a number of things that are available 696 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 4: on Wolfgang's vaults if you know that website. Yeah, there 697 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 4: are a lot of bottom line shows that you can 698 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 4: you can listen to from there, which for me was 699 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 4: very helpful working on the book. Natalie Parton show is 700 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 4: on there, for instance, when she came and played in 701 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 4: nineteen seventy seven, and very very smartly, so removed all 702 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 4: of her fake nails when she started to fingerpick the 703 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 4: guitar and one of them fell off, and then she 704 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 4: just stopped her show and proceeded in front of Mick 705 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 4: Jagger and Springsteen and every big record company person in 706 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 4: New York. Just took a second out there. She's just 707 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 4: talking everybody. She's just taking the fake nails. So damn it, 708 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 4: I can play this g Gord. 709 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 3: What oh, that's fantastic. Listen, the book is wonderful. 710 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 5: Well, I encourage you to get positively fourth and mercer. 711 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 5: It is a look at not only the music history 712 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 5: and the bottom line, but it's a look at New 713 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 5: York history, Greenwich's village history. 714 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,560 Speaker 3: I am so grateful Alan Pepper and Billy Altman that. 715 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 5: You took the time to be on taking a walk, 716 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 5: and I just love going back and it brought back. 717 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 3: I love the way you describe it, Billy. 718 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, A lot of it is bittersweet memories when you're 719 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 2: by there, but when you read the book, it's all 720 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 2: sweet memories, you know. 721 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 6: Buzz. First of all, thank you very much for that. 722 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 6: But one of the things I've been impressed about and 723 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 6: actually has made me feel great is one of the 724 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:51,479 Speaker 6: things consistent in the reviews. Everybody says it's not a nostalgia, 725 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 6: it's not an nostalgia trip down memory lane. That it 726 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 6: offers so much more, which is why you were just 727 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 6: pointed out. So thank you for saying that, and thank 728 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:04,760 Speaker 6: you for the kind words. 729 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,359 Speaker 3: Absolutely thanks, guys, appreciate it. 730 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 731 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,760 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 732 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,320 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 733 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 734 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.