1
00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,920
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.

2
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,960
Speaker 1: I've never told you a production of I Heart Radio.

3
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 1: So Samantha, oh lord, My question for you today is

4
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,040
Speaker 1: if if you found like one of those not at

5
00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 1: all suspicious boxes or lamps that you can make one wish,

6
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,720
Speaker 1: what would the wish be. Oh that's a loaded question

7
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,560
Speaker 1: because you know it's gonna go wrong. Being practical, I

8
00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:50,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't be I want more wishes first, um, and then

9
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,920
Speaker 1: I would ask to have unlimited wishes and then also

10
00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:02,240
Speaker 1: unlimited tapebacks. If I don't, that's smart because he will

11
00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 1: inevitably go wrong after a certain amount of time. Oh,

12
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 1: you have to be so specific. It's like you have

13
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,319
Speaker 1: to hand one of those documents that has all the

14
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 1: like clauses and subclauses. So I could definitely be like,

15
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,600
Speaker 1: and I want you to know what I'm thinking in

16
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,399
Speaker 1: my head when I say these wishes. Yeah. Yeah, but

17
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:27,119
Speaker 1: that's how could go wrong. That's the thing. It never

18
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,199
Speaker 1: seems to go right. I'm trying to think of one

19
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 1: instance in media where making the wish goes right. I

20
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,319
Speaker 1: guess and Aladdin, but he makes the final wish to

21
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,920
Speaker 1: free him, Yeah, to free the genie that goes right.

22
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 1: I suppose supposedly they don't know being a sequel, so

23
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:52,080
Speaker 1: obviously it didn't go well. I think there's multiple sequels

24
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 1: and we don't know what happened. By the scenes. One

25
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 1: of them is returned to far who becomes a genie himself. Wow,

26
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 1: I'm always impressed with your knowledge. You're welcome of these

27
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:09,080
Speaker 1: lesser known films. You're welcome that lesser known. I just

28
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 1: don't think you know lesser known to me. Let me

29
00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,639
Speaker 1: a few few films we've talked about are not lesser known?

30
00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 1: You just don't know. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, I agree

31
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,760
Speaker 1: with you. You are correct in this matter. So wait,

32
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,320
Speaker 1: so what would your wishes to be? Oh? I think

33
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 1: I agree with you, although, like I did a whole

34
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,120
Speaker 1: as you know, I love horror movies, and I tried

35
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,080
Speaker 1: to like word my wishes so specifically, and then I

36
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,919
Speaker 1: kept thinking of all the ways they could be misinterpreted

37
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,080
Speaker 1: or that could go wrong, and I just got so overwhelmed.

38
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,080
Speaker 1: It was one of those like montage sequences in a

39
00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,239
Speaker 1: movie where they keep throwing like the balled up paper

40
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,680
Speaker 1: and the trash can um. So I never arrived at

41
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 1: something that I thought couldn't be ultimately turned against me,

42
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,120
Speaker 1: which is I guess the moral is be careful what

43
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,360
Speaker 1: you wish for every time. It's like the Monkey Paul,

44
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,760
Speaker 1: the Monkey pol Well, you know the name of this episode,

45
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,239
Speaker 1: What is and What Should Be? Is inspired by the

46
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,799
Speaker 1: Supernatural episode with the Gin where Dean gets pulled into

47
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,960
Speaker 1: his dream world, um with his family all alive and

48
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 1: it's super suburban I guess normal, boring. Yeah, yeah, so, okay,

49
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,359
Speaker 1: we're not specifically talking about which is today. Um, so

50
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 1: I did want to put in here a trigger warning

51
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,640
Speaker 1: for sexual assault and abuse. There's nothing too in depth,

52
00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 1: but it's kind of the meat of this conversation, which

53
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 1: is this idea I've been struggling to articulate for a while.

54
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,200
Speaker 1: It's been on my mind for a long time, and

55
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 1: it mostly comes up when I'm thinking about the depiction

56
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 1: of rape in the media, but not always. Then I'll

57
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,400
Speaker 1: get into a different example not to do with sexual

58
00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 1: assault in a minute, but essentially it's an anxiety I

59
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 1: have around did picking things. Usually bad things the way

60
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,120
Speaker 1: they are, they're often missing key perspective, like the key

61
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 1: perspective um and whether or not that perpetuates them, and

62
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,640
Speaker 1: also the entertainment value of depicting those things, and who's

63
00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 1: making those things, and how it's framed and how it's

64
00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,760
Speaker 1: portrayed um and how all of those things obviously play

65
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:29,960
Speaker 1: into the anxiety I have around this, So to kind

66
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,800
Speaker 1: of break that down a little bit, we know the

67
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,359
Speaker 1: statistics when it comes to rape and women and girls

68
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,480
Speaker 1: and sexual assault and abuse. The fact is a lot

69
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,599
Speaker 1: of women do worry about rape and have been sexually assaulted,

70
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 1: and I don't think we should shy away from those

71
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,200
Speaker 1: stories and telling those stories. And in a way, I

72
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,280
Speaker 1: feel like it's our responsibility to not shy away from that.

73
00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,799
Speaker 1: But at the same time, if that's all we ever see,

74
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 1: and particularly if the scene is graphic or gratuitous from

75
00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,120
Speaker 1: the male perspective, then I get I'm really worried that

76
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,320
Speaker 1: it's self perpetuating, that it helps keep the status quo

77
00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,839
Speaker 1: in place, and because it's done for entertainment, and it

78
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,160
Speaker 1: so often does cater to the male gaze, to this

79
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 1: idea that women are property. Even when it comes to

80
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,760
Speaker 1: the male hero being enraged and what happened to his

81
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,880
Speaker 1: love or significant other, there's always, always, always this air

82
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 1: of toxic masculinity that another man has used and how

83
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,040
Speaker 1: he quotes his property and like a shame around that,

84
00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:36,679
Speaker 1: like he's ashamed that that happens. And we've talked about

85
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 1: this a bit in our Female Revenge episodes when it

86
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,320
Speaker 1: comes to that big category of rape revenge films and

87
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 1: the importance of having these stories be told by women

88
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,279
Speaker 1: and centering it on the women's perspective. Um seeing rape

89
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,520
Speaker 1: in something like Game of Thrones, I had this reaction like,

90
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,159
Speaker 1: I'm sure this world is rife with this. I'm sure,

91
00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,400
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure it was necessary to show it,

92
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,880
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure it was necessary to show it

93
00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 1: in this particular way. So yeah, that it's just something

94
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,719
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about because the numbers are high, and

95
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 1: and you know, I've said a lot lately on on

96
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,760
Speaker 1: this show. I've been watching so many horror movies lately,

97
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,520
Speaker 1: so many horror movies Smith and just scraping the bottom

98
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,839
Speaker 1: of the barrel. And I've realized that, and probably nine

99
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,599
Speaker 1: out of the last ten I've seen, it ends with

100
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:35,200
Speaker 1: the final girl, the main female character tied up, usually

101
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 1: wearing white, and there's like sexual overtones that she is

102
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,159
Speaker 1: in danger of being raped, a sexually assaulted. Right, And

103
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just if that's all we ever see,

104
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,719
Speaker 1: and if it's again, it's so important who's telling the

105
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:56,560
Speaker 1: story and how it's shot and who's being centered in it. Yeah,

106
00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 1: that's definitely a whole breakdown of the conversation. What's the point?

107
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 1: What does it lead to? Um? Is it in entertainment value?

108
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 1: Is it for shock value? What is what is the

109
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,560
Speaker 1: reason behind it? Because as you're talking about this, I'm

110
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,160
Speaker 1: thinking about the book The Rape of Nanking and the

111
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,400
Speaker 1: historical aspect of what happened in the small village of

112
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 1: Nankin and the many women who were horribly abused, and

113
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,280
Speaker 1: there was a movie made out of it with Christian

114
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 1: Bail as the protagonist in it, and the hero who

115
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,320
Speaker 1: was a drunken priest with this group of young girls

116
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,920
Speaker 1: and this group of female sex workers at that point

117
00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,640
Speaker 1: in time, and this variation of heroism as well as

118
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,600
Speaker 1: um the conversation of who's the bad guy, who's a

119
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,480
Speaker 1: good guy, and a lot of it had to center

120
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,920
Speaker 1: around whether the main character was there had to be

121
00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,760
Speaker 1: a romance line in it, which was so freaking stupid

122
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,080
Speaker 1: that there was not this historical concept. There's nothing romantic

123
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,520
Speaker 1: about this point of view, there's nothing, none of that necessary,

124
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: and yet the hero is rewarded with it a love

125
00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 1: interest and or sex I can't quite remember, um, And

126
00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 1: it's really disgusting, like you just devalue the whole point

127
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 1: of this conversation because you made this entertainment point and

128
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,720
Speaker 1: of course a white savior and a part of this

129
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,720
Speaker 1: as well, which is a whole other story of course

130
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,640
Speaker 1: we've talked about previously, but this whole level, like this

131
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,640
Speaker 1: is a horrific tragedy and what happened to these people,

132
00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,760
Speaker 1: what happened to this village, what happened to these women,

133
00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 1: were awful and it needs to be talked about it unfortunately.

134
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,800
Speaker 1: And those I don't know if you've ever um studied

135
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 1: it or looked at any of the books, but those

136
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,480
Speaker 1: pictures are horrific. They are gut wrenching. I think I

137
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 1: was scarred and damaged where I went into myself for

138
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,200
Speaker 1: a good week because I was so heavily triggered about

139
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,160
Speaker 1: the trauma of it all. And then to take that

140
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,599
Speaker 1: and put it into this Hollywood movie, that type of depiction,

141
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 1: it is so gross, It was so humiliating, it was

142
00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,800
Speaker 1: so late dehumanizing for the actual victims who had gone

143
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,560
Speaker 1: through these things, and whether it was partially based on

144
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,120
Speaker 1: a true story. Why why did you have to put

145
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,840
Speaker 1: this whitewashed love story in the middle of this disgusting,

146
00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 1: horrific act and that is still not being acknowledged to

147
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,080
Speaker 1: the full that it's not been given its um due

148
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,000
Speaker 1: essentially and apologies that it is deserved. And you had,

149
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,600
Speaker 1: like the entertainment world, where did this we have to

150
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,880
Speaker 1: sell a movie versus we want to tell this history?

151
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,959
Speaker 1: Come in and yeah, I think that's what is and

152
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,200
Speaker 1: what should be is exactly this conversation of yeah, okay,

153
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,080
Speaker 1: this is important. We need to have that conversation. We

154
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,200
Speaker 1: can't ignore the rape and murder and all of these

155
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,359
Speaker 1: things to these women that has happened, and the constant

156
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,440
Speaker 1: abuse that happened in in the chaos and the mass

157
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,439
Speaker 1: uh essentially genocide of these people. But at the same time,

158
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,400
Speaker 1: this is the only way you could think to tell

159
00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 1: the story. Yeah, that's exactly it, I feel like, And

160
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,640
Speaker 1: I mean this is a large generalization and it's not

161
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 1: true for everyone by any means, but the topic of

162
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 1: rape is such a sensitive and personal thing and it

163
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: should be handled that way. And if you're going to

164
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,440
Speaker 1: depict it instead of like, well, even if you're going

165
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 1: to mention it, but especially if you're going to depict it,

166
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 1: I feel like you need someone who knows what that

167
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:35,680
Speaker 1: entails and knows what that means for usually the woman

168
00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,520
Speaker 1: in it, and it will make a better story. Maybe

169
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,080
Speaker 1: not one that's more fun in Hollywood like popcorn, but

170
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be. Shouldn't be, And I just feel like

171
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,480
Speaker 1: so many times it's just a plot point, as our

172
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,800
Speaker 1: women in general have served in movies and TV for

173
00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,559
Speaker 1: so long to fuel the male storyline. But that's just

174
00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,839
Speaker 1: helping prop up rape culture if you're depicting this as

175
00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 1: an act of one man to essentially paste off another

176
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:15,640
Speaker 1: man um because she doesn't matter ultimately, her pain doesn't matter, right,

177
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's one aspect of it. But I

178
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,079
Speaker 1: did want to put in a less serious one. So

179
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:28,440
Speaker 1: I was on um the Bechdel Cast a while back

180
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 1: discussing the Avengers, and this came up when they were

181
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 1: talking about Black Widow. We were all talking about Black

182
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 1: Widow and how she uses emotional manipulation and seduction as tools,

183
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,839
Speaker 1: basically weaponizing her femininity because that's the world we live in.

184
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,959
Speaker 1: That's what is which makes sense. And yes, probably a

185
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,679
Speaker 1: lot of female spies do that, although I guess if

186
00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,520
Speaker 1: you could take in James Bond, you could argue a

187
00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 1: lot of male spies to do that. But um, also,

188
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 1: why couldn't they have gone another way and focused on

189
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,440
Speaker 1: something else because she was the only woman. Uh, it

190
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,720
Speaker 1: was about giving men what they want. She's there's definitely

191
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 1: shots in that film where you can tell, oh, they

192
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,600
Speaker 1: shot this male audience in minds um. And don't get

193
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 1: me wrong, She's badass. Black widow is badass. I'm not

194
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,240
Speaker 1: mad about this, per se. I just have Again, if

195
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,319
Speaker 1: that's all we're seeing, I have an anxiety about it. Right.

196
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,280
Speaker 1: It doesn't make you wonder when you look at the

197
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,520
Speaker 1: Marvel world because when you see Captain Marvel, that is

198
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,320
Speaker 1: not a part of her conversation. She's just a badass

199
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,400
Speaker 1: that went into space and local memory. And maybe that's

200
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,160
Speaker 1: the whole point of like Alien as well as where

201
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,320
Speaker 1: even though they're awful and they want to kill us

202
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 1: all apparently um aliens in general, but they're also a

203
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,360
Speaker 1: little more progressive and that they don't see women as

204
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,319
Speaker 1: just that one main thing, yes, which is why I

205
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,439
Speaker 1: have sung the praises many times about science fiction, because

206
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,520
Speaker 1: I do think you can paint outside of It's easier

207
00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,000
Speaker 1: to paint outside of all of our systems and structures

208
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,280
Speaker 1: we have in place. UM. So that's yeah, the marble

209
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,160
Speaker 1: is definitely changing. But at the time when the Avengers

210
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,360
Speaker 1: came out, she was the only woman, and I don't

211
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,199
Speaker 1: know that. There's just a part of me that is, yes,

212
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:13,960
Speaker 1: we live in a world where you would use that

213
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:19,960
Speaker 1: as a woman, but I want to see something else, right, Well,

214
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,280
Speaker 1: when you think about The Smiths the Spy film with

215
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,800
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, which both of the more spies,

216
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 1: the beginning scene you see Angelina Jolie play the dominatrix

217
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,160
Speaker 1: and Brad Pitt the drunk guy who stumbles on the

218
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 1: poker game. It's such a weird variation, but like that's

219
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 1: exactly the setup of this is spies. These are worth spies.

220
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,640
Speaker 1: Do female spies have sex and male spies put you

221
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:51,640
Speaker 1: like they're drunk? Yep m m m yeah, I mean

222
00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,320
Speaker 1: that's that's an interesting You could really expound this idea

223
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,640
Speaker 1: out into um stereotypes and troops in general, and then

224
00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,560
Speaker 1: particul when it comes to marginalized people and marginalized voices.

225
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,920
Speaker 1: I know this has been in in conversation a lot

226
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,640
Speaker 1: lately with um black stories and most of the ones

227
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,319
Speaker 1: getting awards being about enslaved people. Again, if that's all

228
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,600
Speaker 1: we ever see, that's a problem, right, It's a problem,

229
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 1: and what what impact does that have on how people

230
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:26,760
Speaker 1: see these marginalized people? So yeah, and I've caught myself

231
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 1: writing stuff where I'm like, yes, this is the way

232
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 1: the world is. But by writing it down and am

233
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 1: I keeping it that way? Am I helping keep it

234
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,200
Speaker 1: in place? Because it's not how I want the world

235
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,920
Speaker 1: to be. At the same time, we can't ignore reality,

236
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 1: but we can dream for better. I just clearly this

237
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 1: is something that I have so many I'm torn about.

238
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 1: Um well, it's definitely a breakdown of the conversation of

239
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,560
Speaker 1: how do we see this issue in general and who

240
00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 1: does it value? Who does it benefit? Yes, and how

241
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,000
Speaker 1: does it benefit them? And then you've got to take

242
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 1: on the larger conversation of the I wanted to be good, realistic,

243
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 1: successful versus I want to break down the system as well. Yeah, yeah,

244
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 1: that's true, Like you can go for both, and I

245
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,760
Speaker 1: do think. Um again, we say this all the time.

246
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 1: I think representation is key for getting more stories. Then

247
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 1: this wouldn't be as big of a problem. And I

248
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 1: definitely think, like as a woman writing down things about rape,

249
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 1: which we're going to come back to it, and I'm

250
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,320
Speaker 1: going to talk about more in a future episode, that's

251
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 1: different than a man doing it, Like as a woman

252
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:45,000
Speaker 1: who's been through it. It's inherently different. Um. And I

253
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 1: can still examine the messages that I might unknowingly be

254
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 1: imparting any of the fiction that I've ever written, um,

255
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,400
Speaker 1: In short stories that I've ever written, it is never

256
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 1: I've never even come close to the idea of writing

257
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,840
Speaker 1: about rape or molist nation, like it just kind of

258
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,400
Speaker 1: bypasses into one word sentence of alluding to it like

259
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 1: you were to say earlier, and moving on and talking

260
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: about the psychosis after the facts, because I don't know

261
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,960
Speaker 1: if I could put myself in through that rabbit hole. Yeah, yeah,

262
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 1: it's That's also been on my mind a lot, and

263
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna return to that because I'm very torn about

264
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,240
Speaker 1: that as well. And there are huge arguments about whether

265
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 1: we should depict it at all, even women, no matter what. UM.

266
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:38,200
Speaker 1: And that's I can see why some people feel that way. Um,

267
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 1: I think unfortunately we've gotten to come to the culture

268
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:45,040
Speaker 1: if we have to prove it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's

269
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,640
Speaker 1: again like when we did that Rape and Revenge one,

270
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 1: and I watched, like there's been a recent state of

271
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 1: rape and revenge movies written by women, directed by women,

272
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,600
Speaker 1: starring women from the woman's perspective who who was sexually

273
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,119
Speaker 1: assault did, and they were much more emotionally resident and powerful.

274
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,680
Speaker 1: To me, it felt much less like, oh, look at

275
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,360
Speaker 1: this semi sexy thing, um, and much more look at

276
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,440
Speaker 1: this devastating, horrific act and the damage it has throughout.

277
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:25,399
Speaker 1: So UM, I'm glad that's happening and we're having this discussion. Um. Again,

278
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 1: if it's just I think it boils down to if

279
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,359
Speaker 1: this is all we're seeing and we're not having the

280
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,000
Speaker 1: actual conversations about what it looks like in reality, and

281
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,439
Speaker 1: we're just painting it as entertainment, that's a problem. Um.

282
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 1: And we do need more representation, and we need representation

283
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 1: by marginalized people who are writing those stories and and

284
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,640
Speaker 1: fueling those stories. UM. I mean, just in the example

285
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,679
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about the sexualization of Asian women in

286
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,960
Speaker 1: general and gas and concubines, which was all up in

287
00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:03,400
Speaker 1: that awesome movie. It's it definitely is. It's kind of like, oh, yeah,

288
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 1: this is who they are and seduction is a part

289
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,560
Speaker 1: of what they do. So therefore, of course rape is

290
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 1: going to be a natural part of this, right. But yeah,

291
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:17,080
Speaker 1: more marginalization and representation, yeah we need more. Yeah. Um,

292
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 1: And so it's probably obvious, but this is it was

293
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,399
Speaker 1: a bit of a just something I've had on my

294
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,520
Speaker 1: brain I'm trying to work through. So if anyone has

295
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 1: any suggestions or thoughts about this, I would love to

296
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,159
Speaker 1: hear them. I know Samantha would too, uh And you

297
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 1: can send them to us at our email at Stuff Media,

298
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,199
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can

299
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or an

300
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,680
Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You Thinks. It's always

301
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,160
Speaker 1: your super producers Andrew Howard and J. J. Possway. Thanks y'all,

302
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,480
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You.

303
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 1: The production of I Heart Radio for more podcast from

304
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,719
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio is that iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast

305
00:18:50,800 --> 00:19:01,240
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. You