Speaker 1: In the game of life, Maintaining a healthy lifestyle and
Speaker 1: nurturing meaningful connections with family can be among the most
Speaker 1: formidable challenges we face.
Speaker 2: It was always the name in the background, son of
Speaker 2: national team player John Harks and Cindy Harks, so there
Speaker 2: is that pressure, but I take it as a positive.
Speaker 1: Yet for many professional athletes, fostering both has proven to
Speaker 1: be a triumphant recipe for success.
Speaker 3: The number one thing Cindy and I both try to
Speaker 3: focus on with the character of who they are, not
Speaker 3: so much about what they're going to achieve.
Speaker 1: I'm John Frankel. For the past two decades, I've traveled
Speaker 1: the globe covering some of the most impactful human interest
Speaker 1: stories in sports. On this show, I'm sitting down with
Speaker 1: some of the biggest families in the game, the legends,
Speaker 1: current superstars, and the up and coming playmakers to understand
Speaker 1: what's really making them tech. What can pro athlete families
Speaker 1: teach a new generation about the importance of caring for
Speaker 1: your health, health and finding success in the face of adversity. Together,
Speaker 1: we'll hear stories of their remarkable comebacks, setbacks, and the
Speaker 1: crucial role their family and self care played in their
Speaker 1: paths to championship glory. This is part of the game.
Speaker 1: The story of American soccer can't be written without John Harks.
Speaker 1: One of the most accomplished players in US history, Parks
Speaker 1: played a key role in the rise and popularity of
Speaker 1: the beautiful game here in the States. He was the
Speaker 1: first American to play in England's Premier League. The midfielder
Speaker 1: led Team USA in two World Cups, including the nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety four Cup, in which the host nation, the US,
Speaker 1: captivated the country with its run to the round of sixteen.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety five, he led the American team to
Speaker 1: a US Cup victory.
Speaker 4: The set to say the fellow the story hauk shun
Speaker 4: Hussa la grit.
Speaker 1: Enough Armstrong, who does what have mentioned?
Speaker 5: It?
Speaker 1: Been followed by leading the same team to the semi
Speaker 1: finals of the Copa America tournament and being named co MVP.
Speaker 1: During his career, Harks collected ninety caps that his appearances
Speaker 1: for the national team. He also won two Major League
Speaker 1: Soccer Championships with DC United. Parks stayed connected to the
Speaker 1: game following his retirement as a TV commentator and is
Speaker 1: currently the coach of the Greenville Triumph in the USL
Speaker 1: League One. His son, Ian Harks, is hard at work
Speaker 1: building his own legacy on the pitch. Parks a riding
Speaker 1: first time shot, Hony cut the post it and it's.
Speaker 4: Up going in.
Speaker 1: Ian Harts has scored long range blast his first MLS goal.
Speaker 1: He recently returned stateside to play for the MLS franchise,
Speaker 1: the New England Revolution, after four seasons playing in Scotland.
Speaker 1: John's wife and Ian's mom, Cindy, was a standout college
Speaker 1: and pro soccer player. Ian's wife, Sarah T. Garden, also
Speaker 1: played professionally for the Celtic FC women's club in Scotland.
Speaker 1: In addition, Ian's two younger sisters, Lily and Lauren, also
Speaker 1: played at the collegiate level. One can only imagine the
Speaker 1: backyard games that happened during family gatherings. Is there a
Speaker 1: pickup soccer game at your house on Thanksgiving?
Speaker 5: There have been many a pickup game. I don't know
Speaker 5: about Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2: I think we bring out the American football to pass
Speaker 2: around every once in a while, just yeah, a little bit,
Speaker 2: try and get into it and then we go back.
Speaker 3: We just try to fit in.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: For the Hearks, there is no off season because soccer
Speaker 1: is the family business. John. Let me start with you.
Speaker 1: You grew up in New Jersey at a time when
Speaker 1: soccer probably wasn't on the front burner for most people,
Speaker 1: at least not yet in this country. When did you
Speaker 1: start playing and what was the appeal?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, you know, I started playing as soon
Speaker 3: as I can walk, basically, And I do remember my
Speaker 3: dad being a big influence in coaching and running training sessions.
Speaker 3: My brother Jimmy three years older than I, so I
Speaker 3: think he was seven at the time, and my dad
Speaker 3: was bringing him down the register for the youth clubs
Speaker 3: and for the youth league that was in Carnia at
Speaker 3: that time, and my dad was coaching, and you know,
Speaker 3: he signed me up as well at the age of four,
Speaker 3: and so it was kind of almost like that's what
Speaker 3: I knew. This is part of where we grew up
Speaker 3: because of the culture there. It was a lot of Scottish,
Speaker 3: English and Irish families. And then you go across the
Speaker 3: one small bridge, very small bridge to Harrison and Newark
Speaker 3: and it was Portuguese and it was a Latinos Central
Speaker 3: American and it was just like a melting pot of
Speaker 3: people playing soccer everywhere. And we thought that that's how
Speaker 3: the world was, you know. It was just in a
Speaker 3: small town in Carney, So we just continuously played every
Speaker 3: day all the time.
Speaker 1: As John came of age, the United States was just
Speaker 1: starting to get its first taste of professional soccer thanks
Speaker 1: to the establishment of the North American Soccer League and
Speaker 1: the spectacular ascent of the New York Cosmos in the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies and eighties. The Cosmos hosted home games in
Speaker 1: both New York and New Jersey and was home to
Speaker 1: one of the sport's most legendary players, Pele, who was
Speaker 1: one of the team's forwards and left an indelible mark
Speaker 1: on American soccer history. I'm going to age myself here.
Speaker 1: How much did the Cosmos and Pele's presence influence you
Speaker 1: at that point?
Speaker 3: It was the biggest influence, having some of the best
Speaker 3: players in the world come and play basically in your backyard.
Speaker 3: I was a ball boy for the Cosmos for a
Speaker 3: short period of time as well, so I got to
Speaker 3: experience that and see Pele in the dugouts in the
Speaker 3: dressing room and the tunnels coming out in the field,
Speaker 3: and Giorgio Kanalia, who I got to work with at
Speaker 3: serious XM for a short period of time when I
Speaker 3: wasn't coaching, and they were all there, all these players,
Speaker 3: Wanner Roth, you know, quality players. Santiago Formoso who lived
Speaker 3: in Carney was part of the Cosmos roster as well,
Speaker 3: so we kind of had them all around. And then
Speaker 3: Ricky Davis, who was like the All American boy that
Speaker 3: was on that team of World All Stars, and those
Speaker 3: guys were coming across and at the end of our
Speaker 3: youth season, they'd be presenting trophies to us, So I'm like,
Speaker 3: what is going on here? Isn't that amazing?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, it's crazy. Ian.
Speaker 1: Did those names mean anything to you coming up a
Speaker 1: generation later?
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: I think their names still holds that power and that
Speaker 2: influence throughout everyone that loves football. And I think the
Speaker 2: fact that my dad would pass down those stories and
Speaker 2: say that he was the ball boy, working and being
Speaker 2: around those guys in those environments and they're probably playing
Speaker 2: at some of the best times in their career and
Speaker 2: the fact that they were doing it in the US
Speaker 2: is massively influential. So yeah, I think my generation it
Speaker 2: still speaks volumes their names and what it means to us.
Speaker 1: I did you have a choice about pursuing soccer. I
Speaker 1: don't mean that necessarily in the literal sense that your parents,
Speaker 1: you know, tied a soccer ball to your foot. But
Speaker 1: given that not only was your dad an accomplished soccer player,
Speaker 1: but your mother was a collegiate soccer player, how much
Speaker 1: was that sort of the family business.
Speaker 5: It definitely was just there.
Speaker 2: Like my dad said, when you're growing up, it's just
Speaker 2: around you right away. And I think I started probably
Speaker 2: around three or four years old too, So I think
Speaker 2: they presented it to us, and me and my sisters,
Speaker 2: we all from a very early age. We just took
Speaker 2: to it. And I think I did have a choice.
Speaker 2: I played a lot of other sports, wasn't very good
Speaker 2: at them to the same level that I was a
Speaker 2: basketball player, had five Yes, I played a little basketball,
Speaker 2: a little bit of rugby, one very quick season of
Speaker 2: baseball and didn't love it. And yeah, so I always
Speaker 2: came back to football, and I always came back to soccer.
Speaker 1: Like his dad, Ian excelled at the amateur level. He
Speaker 1: won the Herman Trophy in twenty sixteen while at Wake
Speaker 1: Forest as the best collegiate soccer player in the nation.
Speaker 1: The same award John his dad won in nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: seven while playing for Virginia. Let's talk about the fact
Speaker 1: that you grow up with these two parents who played
Speaker 1: soccer at a high level, and your father was able
Speaker 1: to take it to the next level beyond college. You
Speaker 1: experienced a great deal of success as a high school
Speaker 1: soccer player. You go to Wake Forest, you have a
Speaker 1: great career there. In fact, you win the Herman Trophy,
Speaker 1: which I believe our crack staff you are the only
Speaker 1: father son team to both win that award for the
Speaker 1: best soccer player in college soccer, the equivalent of the Heisman?
Speaker 1: Is it a double edged sword? Ian too be a
Speaker 1: Harks and pursue soccer. I mean, you go and maybe
Speaker 1: in some cases you didn't need this to open the
Speaker 1: door because your talent spoke for itself. But then there's
Speaker 1: also expectations that come along with that, aren't there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I take it as a lot of blessings. There's
Speaker 2: a pressure that comes with it because, Yeah, ever since
Speaker 2: we started to maybe make names for ourselves and step
Speaker 2: into different challenges, it was always the name in the
Speaker 2: background of son of national team player John Harks and
Speaker 2: son of Cindy Harks. You know, Hall of fame or
Speaker 2: everything that she's done as well. So there is that pressure,
Speaker 2: but I take it as a positive pressure. I don't
Speaker 2: see it as a negative, and I think my sisters
Speaker 2: do as well, because we're proud of what our parents
Speaker 2: have done. We've seen them go through so many challenges
Speaker 2: and they've kind of paved the way for us so
Speaker 2: we can follow their example. And they've been great role
Speaker 2: models for us, and they have opened a lot of
Speaker 2: doors and opportunities for us, and then it's up to
Speaker 2: us to step through those doors and take it on ourselves.
Speaker 2: So I could definitely call it a double edged sword,
Speaker 2: but it's definitely a blessing more than I think. I
Speaker 2: see it as a challenge. But the talk is a there.
Speaker 2: People are always gonna question it.
Speaker 1: And when you speak of talk, did anybody trash talk
Speaker 1: to you on the field as you were growing up, Oh,
Speaker 1: you're not your dad, or you think you're your dad,
Speaker 1: or maybe worse.
Speaker 2: I don't think too bad, And maybe you get the
Speaker 2: odd person that you know come for you a little bit,
Speaker 2: But I don't think it wasn't too bad in Northern
Speaker 2: Virginia for trash talk.
Speaker 1: And even if they said something to the effect of Oh,
Speaker 1: you play like your mom. That was actually a compliment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, case exactly, and I need to play more like
Speaker 2: my mom sometimes.
Speaker 1: But I was actually going to ask, are there subtleties
Speaker 1: to the game that you got from your mother that
Speaker 1: were advantageous in your career to this point?
Speaker 2: Well, it was talked about the different positions. Dad been
Speaker 2: more of a midfielder, played right back as well, but
Speaker 2: my mom was always kind of a number ten or
Speaker 2: a striker. So she was always like talking to us
Speaker 2: when we were in the backyard playing or training or
Speaker 2: doing something where she was like, you guys need to
Speaker 2: have the finishing gene. You don't have that and everything,
Speaker 2: but you scored plenty of goals in your time.
Speaker 5: But he's like, where's the striker.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: She was always bringing up that and getting in the
Speaker 2: box and how do you make runs and everything like that.
Speaker 2: So we had two different aspects like that. But we've
Speaker 2: been surrounded by a lot of strong women playing the
Speaker 2: game our whole live.
Speaker 1: Yeah, John as Ian and the girls embarked on these
Speaker 1: careers and following you and Cindy into this line of work,
Speaker 1: what did you say to them to prepare them emotionally
Speaker 1: and mentally to deal with carrying the Heark's name on
Speaker 1: the back of their shirts.
Speaker 3: I think the number one thing we Cindy and I
Speaker 3: both try to focus on was the character of who
Speaker 3: they are, not so much about what they're going to
Speaker 3: achieve or anything, but just being a good character person
Speaker 3: and through the adversity, because there's a lot of downs
Speaker 3: as well as ups, you know, in every sport, in
Speaker 3: any professional career that you seek, although soccer is just
Speaker 3: one of those. It's a big platform and people are
Speaker 3: going to follow you, and we're always saying you can
Speaker 3: never be wrong doing the right thing, and so we
Speaker 3: always kind of said keep your head, you know, even
Speaker 3: keeled through that process. And it's always easier to say
Speaker 3: it then to actually go through it. It's always harder
Speaker 3: when you actually physically go through that. So I think
Speaker 3: we were always just trying to find a balance as
Speaker 3: best as we could to prepare them for what was coming.
Speaker 3: But they have to go through that because they're just
Speaker 3: passing through you as children anyway, So you can't feel
Speaker 3: like your experiences are going to be exactly the way
Speaker 3: theirs are, but you just kind of prepare them a
Speaker 3: little bit through ups and downs. What people are going
Speaker 3: to write about, what they're going to say, like your
Speaker 3: team lost, oh you guys think you know whatever, negative,
Speaker 3: it always comes with it. That's part of the sport,
Speaker 3: and you just take it and move on.
Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, Ian made the leap to professional soccer.
Speaker 1: He joined Major League Soccer's DC United franchise, the same
Speaker 1: team as dad played for when he won two MLS titles.
Speaker 2: When I first started playing with DC, it was my
Speaker 2: first game. I was playing against Pier Low and David
Speaker 2: Va for New York City. I was like, wow, how
Speaker 2: are these players you know, on the same pitch as
Speaker 2: me right now with their careers, And so I was
Speaker 2: very lucky to be a part of that and have
Speaker 2: two good years with DC United.
Speaker 5: And I'm part of my professional career.
Speaker 2: But then I just saw the opportunity to go and
Speaker 2: continue to get games and kind of expand my career
Speaker 2: a little bit. And like we talked about my dad
Speaker 2: first going and kind of being a trailblazer and pioneer
Speaker 2: for everyone, not just myself but for American players in general,
Speaker 2: and what he did just broke down doors and barriers,
Speaker 2: which it does still exist over there.
Speaker 1: Over there, meaning overseas. Europe is considered the cradle of soccer,
Speaker 1: with some of the most storied teams and players in
Speaker 1: the sports long history. Twelve World Cup champions have come
Speaker 1: from Europe, by far the most of any continent, and
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety John Harks went across the Pond to
Speaker 1: play for Sheffield Wednesday.
Speaker 3: Wellington switches it to Hawks on the right.
Speaker 1: That's a good effort by Jonas. It's first ever in
Speaker 1: in fast football. I won't he remember for the rest
Speaker 1: of his days. In nineteen ninety two, the midfielder made
Speaker 1: history becoming the first American to play in the English
Speaker 1: Premier League. Give me a sense of what that meant
Speaker 1: in terms of quality of play and how did it
Speaker 1: transfer to you as a competitive soccer player. What did
Speaker 1: that mean to you to be at the Premier League level?
Speaker 3: Well, total honesty. I think at that time you don't
Speaker 3: really understand what that means. You're just there and you're
Speaker 3: in it. And I was very fortunate in the first
Speaker 3: seven months there, you know, scored a goal of the
Speaker 3: year and then we were winning a title against Manchester
Speaker 3: United at Wembley, so it was all coming really quickly.
Speaker 3: But what people failed to w recognized this. There was
Speaker 3: four months of me on trial and fighting and trying
Speaker 3: to be accepted there and people think, oh, you played
Speaker 3: in the World Cup. You know you're going to play
Speaker 3: for a club in England severyr Wednesday, and I'm like, man,
Speaker 3: it was some dark times like me staying over there
Speaker 3: and not making it, and a lot of phone calls
Speaker 3: back to Cindy, who I was dating at the time,
Speaker 3: and then to my mom and dad too, like I
Speaker 3: don't think I'm going to make it, and it's crazy
Speaker 3: to think that. But I actually played in the World
Speaker 3: Cup before I was a real pro, and it was
Speaker 3: because we were ragtag bunchs of college kids coming out
Speaker 3: and fighting, chip on our shoulders to prove things to
Speaker 3: the world and we got that opportunity. So I've been
Speaker 3: really fortunate to be in those opportunities and I always
Speaker 3: just try to make the most of them as best
Speaker 3: as I can. And so when you think about what
Speaker 3: you just mentioned the Premier League that came in the
Speaker 3: second season when they changed the Division one Division two
Speaker 3: status and they said, at the Premier League now, and
Speaker 3: it did raise the expectations and the level of play
Speaker 3: and the speed of play because now there was more
Speaker 3: international players coming into those leagues where it used to
Speaker 3: be like two or three international players per club. Now
Speaker 3: you look at the lineups and your spotting, like is
Speaker 3: there any English players out there? Let alone the Americans.
Speaker 3: But you open the door and you create those opportunities.
Speaker 1: Fair to say that it made you a better player
Speaker 1: playing at that level.
Speaker 3: Without a doubt, because when you get to the higher levels,
Speaker 3: people think that you recreate certain moments in the game
Speaker 3: or you create. It's just speed of play, speed of thought,
Speaker 3: and the physicality and it's the quicker you can think.
Speaker 3: And that's where I think, you know a lot of
Speaker 3: our kids have been really gifted because they see the
Speaker 3: game well. I think Sarah as well as Ian and
Speaker 3: Lauren Lily could all be great coaches if they wanted to,
Speaker 3: because they really understand the game of football because they
Speaker 3: live it. You know, it's their passion, they're emotionally invested
Speaker 3: in it. But I think that's the biggest difference was
Speaker 3: that speed of play, that speed of thought, and just
Speaker 3: you're not always going to be the fastest player on
Speaker 3: the field, but you got to think faster than anybody else,
Speaker 3: and that's what helps you get.
Speaker 1: By Ian Harts once again followed the trail his father
Speaker 1: blazed years earlier. In twenty nineteen, he joined the Scottish
Speaker 1: club Dundee United. His wife, Sarah Tigarden, also played professional
Speaker 1: soccer for Celtic FC in the Scottish Women's Premier League
Speaker 1: until her retirement in twenty twenty two. Ian, what did
Speaker 1: you see is the biggest difference leaving American soil and
Speaker 1: then going to play for a club over there.
Speaker 2: One of the biggest differences is just how much of
Speaker 2: football is embedded in the culture over there. And I
Speaker 2: think the US has come such a long way and
Speaker 2: it's amazing to see what they are doing and how
Speaker 2: strong the league is here now. The league's is basically
Speaker 2: as old as me, just when you started in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety six and everything, and it's taking you know, leaps
Speaker 2: and boules. They get it. It's nice, nice, nice, subtle.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think there is still kind of a connotation or
Speaker 2: a bias towards American players playing overseas of basically not
Speaker 2: whether or not we can do it, but you know,
Speaker 2: are you good enough? Are you good enough to stay
Speaker 2: in it? Do you get what's going on here? Kind
Speaker 2: of all of that, the pressures on the smallest games
Speaker 2: is so high, which makes it fun, which makes it challenging,
Speaker 2: but you do get to see the other side of it,
Speaker 2: the nastier side of it, I guess where people's passions
Speaker 2: come out.
Speaker 5: But it was cool to see that too.
Speaker 1: A little bit of home soil for you too in
Speaker 1: a way, right playing in d that's where your grandfather
Speaker 1: is from.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, your dad was born in Dundee, just behind
Speaker 2: and grew up just behind the stadium that we played at.
Speaker 2: So that was pretty cool, full kind of circle moment.
Speaker 1: And you know, we talked about Sarah, your wife, who
Speaker 1: also plays overseas professionally. How much does soccer dominate the
Speaker 1: conversation when it's just you and Sarah, when the whole
Speaker 1: family gets together, does anything else get mentioned?
Speaker 3: Movies?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we try and talk about a lot of other things.
Speaker 2: Soccer and football is definitely the dominating part of our conversations.
Speaker 2: And it just because it's our life. Like we said,
Speaker 2: we just yeah, we live and live.
Speaker 3: In natural like everyday thing that's just there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And but on the other hand, it's very nice
Speaker 2: to also have someone that knows exactly what you're going
Speaker 2: through every single day and actually have those conversations where
Speaker 2: I can just tell her coming back from work, you know,
Speaker 2: and training, and say this is what happened to and
Speaker 2: she goes, yeah, I know exactly what you're going.
Speaker 5: Through, right.
Speaker 1: I ran ten more sprints than you did today, so
Speaker 1: don't complain to me.
Speaker 2: That's why I'm never gonna I'm never gonna win the
Speaker 2: competition battle with her.
Speaker 1: When we return, we'll talk about how soccer has evolved.
Speaker 3: In the old days we didn't have all this data analysis.
Speaker 3: It gets to a point where you go, I wonder
Speaker 3: how much better we could have been if we did
Speaker 3: have it.
Speaker 1: Part of the game. We'll be right back and now
Speaker 1: back to part of the game. Injuries, of course, are
Speaker 1: part of every sport, and soccer is no different. Pro
Speaker 1: players run on average between six and seven miles each game.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of miles on the odometer. John and
Speaker 1: Ian Harks have experienced pain on the pitch during their careers,
Speaker 1: but they both feel they've been somewhat fortunate. What have
Speaker 1: been the worst injuries that each of you have suffered
Speaker 1: in the course of your careers?
Speaker 2: For me, probably ankle problems, torn ligaments, very serious ligaments,
Speaker 2: and both ankles, but thankfully more recently on my left
Speaker 2: one that was more of an eight to ten weeks
Speaker 2: so I was a bit longer where I thought I
Speaker 2: was going to have to get surgery and thankfully didn't
Speaker 2: have to. And then before I've just kind of gone
Speaker 2: through some other ones that have just been sprands or
Speaker 2: serious brands.
Speaker 5: So thankfully nothing too bad John.
Speaker 1: Any lingering effects.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I beat up my body early in
Speaker 3: those days. You know, it was just fight, fight, fight, compete,
Speaker 3: you know, really crappy field mud. The conditions now that
Speaker 3: they play in and the science that's applied to it
Speaker 3: in terms of training and everything is just so much better.
Speaker 3: It's unbelievable on the recovery periods. And I give these
Speaker 3: guys so much credit. Like even Greenville that I coached
Speaker 3: in the USL, I see players rolling out and doing
Speaker 3: exercises like hours before training, and I'm like, man, we
Speaker 3: used to come in, you know, get a cup of
Speaker 3: tea or a coffee, and then walk out in the
Speaker 3: field warm up for twenty minutes and then we were
Speaker 3: good to go.
Speaker 5: That's why you lost your hip.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I had a hip resurfacing technique done, but
Speaker 3: I did it after.
Speaker 1: I retired, proven to be successful.
Speaker 3: Very successful, like still running and kicking the ball today easy.
Speaker 3: It's not a hip replacement. It was a surfacing done.
Speaker 3: And I've had you know, fifth minute tarsal breaks at
Speaker 3: college at UVA. I had that recovered from that and
Speaker 3: minor cartilage surgery when I was a junior in high school.
Speaker 3: My knee which is bugging me now, but now, other
Speaker 3: than that, it's been pretty you know, lucky. I guess
Speaker 3: not to have the major ones.
Speaker 1: You pointed out something that I would like to address today,
Speaker 1: and obviously this is true about almost every sport. You
Speaker 1: look at the golfers today and these guys look like
Speaker 1: real athletes. Rory McElroy and Tiger Woods look like guys
Speaker 1: who spend as much time in the weight room as
Speaker 1: they do on the golf course. How has the training
Speaker 1: changed in soccer today? What are the things that players
Speaker 1: are doing today, John, that you coach and you didn't
Speaker 1: do during your day.
Speaker 3: Ian.
Speaker 1: What do you see as some of the differences.
Speaker 3: I think just how that science has applied, how the
Speaker 3: results you know, are just both macro and micro throughout
Speaker 3: a whole season. And I think that from a high
Speaker 3: performance coach or strength and conditioning, whatever title you want
Speaker 3: to give. They have, you know, a lot of input
Speaker 3: that can help you. And look, I mean it gets
Speaker 3: to a point sometimes from a coach from our generation
Speaker 3: and I've been coaching at the pro level since two
Speaker 3: thousand and seven, but it gets to a point where
Speaker 3: you go, oh, the old days, we didn't have all
Speaker 3: this data analysis, and I wonder how much better we
Speaker 3: could have been if we did have it, Like how
Speaker 3: much more prepared we could have been, how much better
Speaker 3: in game situations instead of just pulling off a hopeful
Speaker 3: play that we would have more consistency to do that
Speaker 3: over and over again, based on the strength and stamina
Speaker 3: that they have. I think players today speed of the
Speaker 3: game has gone up tremendously when we played, even just
Speaker 3: training with Sarahenni and like three days ago just watching
Speaker 3: him train. Came back and Lauren, my daughter, was like,
Speaker 3: how to go? And I'm like, man, he is so powerful,
Speaker 3: it's ridiculous, like runs, striking a ball, sprinting. It's crazy
Speaker 3: and we can raise it up ourselves at certain times,
Speaker 3: but to have it at a consistent level, and I
Speaker 3: think him being in Scotland hardened him a lot and
Speaker 3: because of that expectation physical nature of Scottish football. But
Speaker 3: just to see how strong he is, it's crazy. I
Speaker 3: mean honestly, no, seriously, the training and the more dedication
Speaker 3: that they put into really what they eat and everything diet,
Speaker 3: I mean it's exceptional. I think it's great, and I
Speaker 3: think the players can hold for longer periods, longer stretches
Speaker 3: of time, like real high intensive workloads. We couldn't do
Speaker 3: that back in the day, There's no way.
Speaker 1: I've read and heard over the years different numbers about
Speaker 1: how much distant soccer players cover in the course of
Speaker 1: a match, you know, five six, as much as eight
Speaker 1: nine miles. Do you know what the number is today?
Speaker 2: I think anywhere from well, I was always doing in
Speaker 2: kilometers the last couple of seasons, but don't confuse me, sorry.
Speaker 2: I think the average was like ten to twelve kilometers,
Speaker 2: so I think it's maybe eight or nine miles.
Speaker 1: So in the course of that, can you run yourself
Speaker 1: into shape maybe the way your dad and his teammates did,
Speaker 1: or are you getting into the weight room now different?
Speaker 1: You know a generation after you're trying to gain that strength,
Speaker 1: not just by playing and practicing, but you're getting into
Speaker 1: the weight room and working and bulking up so that
Speaker 1: you have the strength to do it.
Speaker 2: I think, like my dad said it, nowadays, I think
Speaker 2: it's just all about finding that extra one percent that
Speaker 2: you're just adding in so many different facets of the game.
Speaker 2: But I think he's probably underselling it how much they
Speaker 2: actually worked and ran and did all of that themselves.
Speaker 2: And I think that's just nowadays we have the technology
Speaker 2: to talk about the metrics and talk about the science
Speaker 2: and all of the fitness that goes into it. But
Speaker 2: there's a negative connotation too, where sometimes they hold us
Speaker 2: back and go, oh, they've only hit this number for
Speaker 2: the day, and you're looking at it from a coach's
Speaker 2: perspective and they're probably going they can get more out
Speaker 2: of these guys. It's not just based on the numbers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a balance. That is true though, And
Speaker 3: then we kind of go like this sometimes back and
Speaker 3: forth with that, you know, like you guys, can we
Speaker 3: can push you a little bit more, you know, and
Speaker 3: sometimes they're like, whoa overload, We need to pull them
Speaker 3: back today.
Speaker 1: One of the many valuable lessons sports teaches us is
Speaker 1: the ability to confront and overcome adversity. Ian harks encountered
Speaker 1: such a scenario in twenty eighteen when he was released
Speaker 1: by DC United. Just two years removed from being crowned
Speaker 1: the best player in collegiate soccer, harks was now a
Speaker 1: player without a team. But when times are tough, the
Speaker 1: Hawks family circles the wagons to help each other. Do
Speaker 1: either of you remember a specific experience in Ian's career
Speaker 1: where you called up mom or dad and talk to
Speaker 1: them about it and we're looking to be consoled.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's probably plenty of examples. Like you said, there's
Speaker 2: plenty of ups and downs as injuries that have gone
Speaker 2: through where I've thought, you know, it's the end of
Speaker 2: the world, and I've had to call them. Thankfully, I
Speaker 2: haven't had too bad of injuries, but you know anything,
Speaker 2: when you have a little setback sometimes in your career,
Speaker 2: you can only focus on that moment and you can't
Speaker 2: see the bigger picture where you're going to get through
Speaker 2: it and it's going to be all right. But they've
Speaker 2: talked me through those They've talked me through even just
Speaker 2: this past season that I came off of. There was
Speaker 2: a lot of downs, a lot of big losses, and
Speaker 2: ultimately The way we finished the season was we were
Speaker 2: relegated over in Scotland and that was the first time
Speaker 2: for me in terms of seeing as wow, is this
Speaker 2: a bigger kind of picture as a failure or is
Speaker 2: it just a part of your career And you go
Speaker 2: through these things and you've had the highs of being promoted,
Speaker 2: going over to Scotland and bringing the team up and
Speaker 2: having that pride with it, and then you think, oh, wow.
Speaker 5: We've also had the other side of it.
Speaker 2: So I've had to talk to them and they've helped
Speaker 2: me through this whole year. You know my wife what
Speaker 2: she's gone through with playing football and knows the game
Speaker 2: very well. I've heard of Leonan these you know everyone
Speaker 2: in the game. Everyone experiences different things at different moments,
Speaker 2: but they've always been there to support and they've always
Speaker 2: been there to guide.
Speaker 5: So yeah, very lucky to have that.
Speaker 3: Self reflection is the best way to grow. And if
Speaker 3: there's mistakes or things that happen, or relegations like Ian
Speaker 3: just mentioned, or winning Scottish Cup titles like Sarah has
Speaker 3: done a Celtic, it's like the highs are going to come,
Speaker 3: you enjoy them and then you reflect back on and
Speaker 3: say what did I do really well that helped do
Speaker 3: that as a team. And I think what Ian and
Speaker 3: Sarah and Cindy and Lauren and Lily all have and
Speaker 3: even I have, is it's always team first mentality. Can
Speaker 3: ask you a question like a reporter, can ask you
Speaker 3: a question that makes you think down and makes you
Speaker 3: think negative, like, oh my god, my performance was poor today.
Speaker 3: I was really crap, and then all of a sudden
Speaker 3: you go into this spiral down world turn And it's
Speaker 3: easy to do that instead of just saying, hey, yeah,
Speaker 3: I am going to have bad games.
Speaker 5: We all are.
Speaker 3: But each team that we continue to keep playing for
Speaker 3: is that we're going to try to lift each other
Speaker 3: up all the way. That's what's part of the process
Speaker 3: of being an athlete and fighting for things every year
Speaker 3: and every club season.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you both, it's sort of a hypothetical
Speaker 1: question here. How different would your relationship be as father's
Speaker 1: son if Ian was not a soccer player and had
Speaker 1: not reached some of the levels that he had.
Speaker 3: I don't think it would be different. I think there's
Speaker 3: a connectivity through the game that we share and the
Speaker 3: love for the game, and we like to talk about it,
Speaker 3: but I think real life and just being human like
Speaker 3: we just it's family. I don't think it would change
Speaker 3: month been kicked out.
Speaker 5: I would have been kicked out of the house by
Speaker 5: day of five.
Speaker 1: Now it wasn't an honest answer.
Speaker 3: I can't believe you would have been a chess champion.
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: I think our relationship wouldn't have changed much. I think
Speaker 2: it would have been pretty good.
Speaker 5: Yeah, let me close this way.
Speaker 1: Both of you can take a second to think about
Speaker 1: this and answer it in your own way. It means
Speaker 1: something different to everybody else. The name of this podcast
Speaker 1: is the heart of the game. What is the heart
Speaker 1: of the game. What is the heart of the game
Speaker 1: of soccer? To you, Ian, I.
Speaker 2: Think the heart of the game is the fact that
Speaker 2: the game is global. I think it connects everyone that plays.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter where you're from. It doesn't matter what
Speaker 2: language you speak, what you look like, religion, anything like that.
Speaker 2: I think it's a language that we all speak. And
Speaker 2: my wife and I were talking about this this morning. Anyway,
Speaker 2: where we travel, you see a soccer pitch in the
Speaker 2: middle of the city. Anywhere you go, you can speak
Speaker 2: to anyone about the game and teams that you love.
Speaker 2: I think the heart of the game is just that
Speaker 2: love and that passion that everyone has for it, and
Speaker 2: you can't really explain it. I think it's just something
Speaker 2: that connects everyone across this globe.
Speaker 5: It's pretty cool, John.
Speaker 3: It's hard to follow that up. I think he hit
Speaker 3: it right on the head the way it doesn't judge
Speaker 3: the inclusivity of it, the democratic approach of throwing a
Speaker 3: ball together, even in tough countries where there's maybe lack
Speaker 3: of opportunity or poverty, and you still throw a ball
Speaker 3: out there and everybody goes out and plays and laughs
Speaker 3: and smiles and puts their arm around you and just says, Wow.
Speaker 3: That's the heart of the game. It connects everybody across
Speaker 3: the globe.
Speaker 1: The Hearts family personifies the unwavering spirit of soccer, with
Speaker 1: its roots intertwined in their DNA. No matter the distance
Speaker 1: it separates them across the Atlantic Ocean or the friendly
Speaker 1: rivalries that ignite during their family pickup games, the game
Speaker 1: of soccer remains the unbreakable bond that keeps them, reminding
Speaker 1: them that strength and dedication, both on and off the field,
Speaker 1: are essential for their enduring success. On the next episode
Speaker 1: of Heart, of the Game. We'll hear from NBA legend
Speaker 1: Tim Hardaway and his son, current NBA superstar Tim Hardaway Junior.
Speaker 1: An overcoming adversity on and off the court.
Speaker 4: I've always wanted to play. I played through a lot
Speaker 4: of injuries. There's a lot of times where I'll be
Speaker 4: heart and everybody knows I'm hurt, and I'll tell them like, no,
Speaker 4: I don't think i'm'n go tonight, But then I'm suited
Speaker 4: up Brady to go. Your mindset just flips a switch.
Speaker 1: Heart of the Game is a production of Ruby Studio
Speaker 1: from iHeartMedia. Our show is hosted by me John Frankel.
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Matt Romano. Our EP of Post
Speaker 1: Production is Matt Stillo. Our supervising producer is Nikiyah Swinton.
Speaker 1: This show was edited by Sierra Spreen. Our writer and
Speaker 1: researcher is Mike Avela. Thanks for listening. We'll see you
Speaker 1: next time.