WEBVTT - Episode 3: Fitting Matters 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:02.400 The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.120 much the equipment matters. I just love that I can 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:05.840 hit any shot. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.520 I kind of want. We're gonna be able to tell 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:09.560 some fun stories about what goes on here to help 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:10.640 golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:13.960 Welcome back to the Ping Proving Grounds podcast. I'm Shane 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.439 Bacon with Marty Jertsen, and we're gonna talk today about fitting. 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.440 And I know we talk so much about fitting in 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.840 and around golf. It's very, very important. Everybody kind of 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:24.880 screams at players, now, you gotta get fit. 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:26.160 You gotta go get fit. 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:28.040 I wanted to start with you about what you do 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.200 in terms of your own fitting. You're a great player, 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.000 you've played a major championships. How much time do you 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.320 spend on your own golf bag? How much time do 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:37.519 you spend kind of putting together what you're gonna go 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:39.280 out and play with in terms of fourteen clubs? 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.080 Yeah, I mean luckily I get to experiment with that 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.040 quite a bit. But Shane, I think what I do 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.920 is I schedule my fittings once or twice a year 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:50.240 with one of our master fitters, and I tell them, hey, 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.200 treat me as if you don't know who I am, right, 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.240 and so they they can make sure I don't come 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.160 in with any bias about my own personal game, and 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:03.000 they can try to find something that I'm too biased 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.600 to be aware of with my own observation, even with 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.680 all my experience and playing experience. So I love doing 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.360 that as an advanced player. Once or twice a year schedule, 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.360 fitting have an expert come and look at your game, 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.480 and they help me with a lot of things that 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.400 I wouldn't otherwise be aware of. Looking at a new option, 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.840 looking at a new club, looking at a new build, looking 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.800 at a high lofted ferrywood with the shorter length, ask 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.360 me questions about where I'm playing golf, what tournaments have 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.080 coming up, what are my pain points on the golf course, 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.600 looking at my own course stats, in things of that nature. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.080 So I think that's very important. Is you know, it 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.560 would be easy for me to try to self fit myself, 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.360 and I've tried to do that, and it's better if 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:44.920 I have an expert look at my game. 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:46.880 Yeah, I mean there's inn a sense that goes into it. 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.400 I mean everybody could go to a club champion and 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.000 say I'm gonna get fit here and have an idea 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:52.880 of a club they have in mind. But the way 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.160 it feels like fitting has moved into is if you 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.720 can go in unbiased in terms of what you're looking for, 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:00.960 maybe even what you think you're going to get fit into. 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.240 There's so much technology involved now. There's there's so much 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.160 data that you can look through, and we've spent days 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.239 looking through computers and robots and all sorts of things 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.400 that really help a golfer understand way more about their 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:14.520 own golf game than maybe they ever even thought they knew. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.000 Yeah, and I think that's the big thing that data 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.720 is useful for. It's to have findings that you you 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:22.760 as a golfer, you hit a bad shot on the course. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:24.840 Let's say you got it your eight iron or something, 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:26.800 and you wipe it over to the right, you know, 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:28.639 and you just try to forget about it. I try 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.120 to wipe it out of my mind or uh, you know. 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:32.880 We come in here to the putting lab, will ask 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:34.920 the player, well, do you miss your putts to the 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:36.800 left or to the right more? Well, I don't know 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:38.680 about you, but I try to forget about my missus. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.040 I don't know if I missed more to them as well. 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.440 So that's where the data can be really helpful. And 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.280 and going to see an expert that can ask you 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.200 those questions that you wouldn't otherwise be aware that that's 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.280 even a thing, right, and extract that out of you 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:56.240 and and uh and try to find something insightful and useful. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.000 And and we've come a long way and in technology 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:01.200 and the in the usefulness of data and weaving that 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:02.680 into the fitting process. 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.240 Let's go back in terms of history. You said we've 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.080 come a long way. I mean PING was at the 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.359 forefront in terms of fitting players into clubs that work 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.519 for them and not necessarily giving them something off the rack. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.880 In your time here, how much has fitting changed. 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.200 Oh, it's been tremendous. I mean Carson kind of put 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.840 the industry on the map, and in terms of democratizing 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.440 fitting because he wanted to make custom fitting available for 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.520 everybody free of charge, like no extra cost. We can 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.400 change your lining goals, we can do different lengths, we 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.960 can do grip size, and those are our staple foundations 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.200 of custom fitting that are still at the heart. Those 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:41.240 are the foundation. But in my time here, this is 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.800 when I first started working at PING, is when launch 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:45.880 monitors first came on the scene. I mean we were 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:47.920 one of the first places here at the proving grounds 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.200 to have a TrackMan, right and before that, we had 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:54.080 ultrasonic sensors on the range that triangulated where the ball landed, 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:55.000 and that's what we were doing. 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:57.760 Technologies made it almost it's made it more advanced, but 0:03:57.800 --> 0:03:58.520 also easier. 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.640 Yeah, yes, more advance and sad sometimes you're measuring things 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:03.560 that you don't need to measure, so that's important and 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.600 I think that's important lesson for the golfer is that 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.520 not everything that you can measure should be something you're 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.440 trying to optimize for. And that's something I think we 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.640 can get into the weeds on. But yeah, I mean 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.200 now from fast forward from when we were one of 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.320 the first to have launch monitors here to now, there's 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.480 consumer launch monitors and a lot of people have them 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.000 in their homes, in their garage. You go to the range, 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.400 you see a garment r ten, you see the you know, 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:27.919 flights go mevo pluses out there and things of that nature. 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.400 So people, you know, I think every every ten years 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.880 or so, the everyday golfer kind of has tools and 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.520 technology that you know, the tour players have or us 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.320 on the research side. So you know, the early days 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.240 of launch monitors though, it was hey, now we can 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.479 measure this. Then the question became, well what do you 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.480 do with it? Right? And so that's where we came 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.719 up with this in flight fitting software to say, okay, 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.000 this is your ball speed launching spin on a driver? 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.760 Is that good or bad? What is optimal? What is 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.760 good gapping? And really having those launch monitors tools tech. 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.320 Now you know, you've seen our focal system which measures 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.120 you know, it's kind of like an MRI machine for 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:05.000 your golfer. 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.920 And there's like ninety cameras in this room. When they're 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.200 covering you around, it's wild. It feels like you're in 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.440 an EA sports game exactly. That's the same technology, right. 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:15.440 So but that's allowed. 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.520 Us to ask questions of you know, get insights out 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.000 of those tools, and really it could be a situation 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.920 where it gets too complex and you, the golfer, might 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.640 get overwhelmed. Hey there's too much technology. What are all 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:29.880 these numbers mean? I think it's very important for us 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.520 at paying to make the complex simple, right is to 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:34.680 take to do that. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.560 I mean because when I'm hitting balls and I'm looking 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.520 at TrackMan numbers. There's so much information on the screen, 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.200 and there's terms that every day golfers don't understand what 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.120 a smash factor, How important is ball speed versus club 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.320 head speed. How do you take all of the information 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.640 that's available now and give it to a player in 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.160 an hour that they can actually understand and take home 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:54.480 and and trust in the equipment. 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:56.520 Yeah, I think that's a tricky part. Is is you 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.159 take all those measurements that you can measure, well, what 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.880 what are the key one? What are the important ones? Uh? 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.279 And then we have to scale that to the skill 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.680 of the golfer too, right, some golf golfer is going 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.160 to be more repeable or not. Some golfers think, hey, 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.520 I'm not consistent enough for a custom fitting. Well, uh, 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:16.800 you know you can lean on you know, static measurements 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.440 of how your your your how tall you are, how 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.760 long your arms are, how big your hands are, and 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.280 so for the beginning golfer, somebody just getting into the game. 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.600 That's why fitting is really important, is you can lean 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:33.080 on the more fundamental things how golfer's built. Then you 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.280 fast forward to the most advanced golfers. When we're working 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.400 with our tour players, you're getting really down into the weeds. 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:40.960 That's when you might need to look at those more 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.880 advanced numbers. Maybe you're weaving in you know, teaching and 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.599 fitting at the same time, and making sure that we're 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.080 making changes to the equipment that their coach is kind 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.600 of bought into because maybe they're working on a swing 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.800 change to try to get them to deliver dynamically flat 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:58.880 or reduce their rate of closure and things of that nature. 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:03.000 So we need to scale our fitting processes to our customer. 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.120 Right your everyday golfer, beginning golfer, we might not need 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.640 to get down into the weeds that much, but for 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.560 you know, Victor or you know when we have you know, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.320 Boyd Summer, Hayes and Tony Final and we are getting 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:15.920 into the weeds. 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.720 So I always think about like the first down line 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.559 in football or shot tracer when you're watching golf on TV, 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.040 and I think back to when I was initially getting fit, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.400 you know, years ago, and there was an entire bag 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.200 of drivers, and there's an entire bag. 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:29.960 Of three woods. 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.080 What's been the biggest advance in technology in terms of 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.960 fitting to help you guys out, In terms of explaining 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:37.480 what's going on to the player in front of you. 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.480 Yeah, that's a great question, Shane. I think it's it's 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.520 being able to pass on all those fitting levers that 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.320 we could give to the tour players. Now your everyday 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:47.320 golfer can get right. 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.640 When did that change? Like, when did that adjust from 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:51.760 you come in and we kind of dot you to 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:53.680 the right iron to now we can actually give you 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.760 the same information that Tony Finale gets. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:57.440 Yeah, it's kind of it's it's kind of been a 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.640 gradual evolution. You know. I think back to when I 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:03.520 first started. We had our tie aside close to twenty now, 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.640 but we had our ti Asi metal woods that had 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.680 different sleeves on them, and they had you could move 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.960 the shaft around and be more upright, flatter and change 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.120 the loft. Well, fast forward to you know, about ten 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.960 years after that, we started screwing in our hozzle. And 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.400 what's fun about that is that it's really being able 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.720 to pass along with the tour players had access to. 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.240 So before we had that, let's say you had a 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:32.280 G five G ten driver glueden hozzle. Well, if lee 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.440 West would need a little less loft, guess what we 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.040 would kind of trim the feral and shit, we call 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:38.880 it shimming. We'd shim the shaft in to have a 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.839 little less loft. Well, you know, I think I view 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.280 my role is to kind of take Hey, that access 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.800 to the tour players have, let's pass that to the 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.640 everyday golfer. And so then we designed our hozzle. Now 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.400 the everyday golfer in the fitter could do that, so 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.000 he unlocked all this little micro tweaking of loft. Well, 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.280 fast forward to our G four ten driver. It's you know, hey, 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.960 our tour players, some of them want to make the 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.520 driver not go his left or eliminate the left side. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.520 Well we put a little hot melt in the toe. 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:09.679 Well what wasn't fair that your every day golfer couldn't 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:11.640 do that, right, So that's when we brought in the 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:15.640 CG shifter. So now when you go into the fitting environment, 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.760 you can tweak, you can change shafts, you can micro 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.880 tweak the loss in between your nine ten, five twelve, 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.640 and you can change the center gravity of the club. 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.600 So you can unlock all these variables. And again it's 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.800 like that same level of access that literally our tour 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.360 players have access to. Now the every day golfer can 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:34.560 get dialed in with their fitter. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.640 You think it about fitting in terms of the equipment 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.480 you have here at paying and then you think about 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.120 the player when the player comes in, how important is 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.560 it to fit them for how they play versus maybe 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:45.959 how you want them to swing or how they want 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:46.319 to swing. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.840 Yeah, I think I think custom fitting is a lot 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:54.840 about reducing, you know, the golfer from having to make compensations. Yeah, 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:56.360 that's a good way to look at customs. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.040 You're hitting a big So I'm hitting a big slice. 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.800 I'm a fifteen handicap that slices it thirty yards and 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:02.760 I keep hitting the slice and keep hitting the slice, 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.199 and you're basically trying to make that same exact swing 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.280 go less right exactly. 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.320 Yeah, And that's one of the advantages of now of 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.960 our CG shifter is that you could look at that 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:14.760 and be like, hey, that's kind of a band aid. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:16.960 If we put the center gravity in the heel, well, 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.160 guess what, And our tour players do this all the time. 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.240 You start changing your mechanics, working on your swing, getting 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.960 your path less over the top, et cetera. You can 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.240 move that center CG shifter back to the neutral position, 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.000 right That's one of the really fun advantages is of 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.400 custom fitting and then having that little little bit of 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.800 adjustability there in the fitting process. Marty. 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:39.839 What I think is so cool here at paying when 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.840 I watch you guys go through your processes is you're 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.560 using technology to make it easier on the player. And 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.240 you think about coming in and getting fit for a putter, 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.200 you think about going out to the driving range, and 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.520 in theory you have three hours to get fit if 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.080 you want it. But not everybody can swing every club 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.439 in their bag for three hours. You guys have leaned 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.920 on technology to simplify that process, make it easier for 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.040 somebody that maybe only has thirty minutes or forty five 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:04.840 minutes or doesn't want to hit every club in the bag. 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.520 Yeah. Yeah, we've really tried to lean on our data. 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.440 We have a team of data scientists and so we 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:11.880 have a lot of algorithm. 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.560 Scientists are here. They're like one hundred scientists here. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:18.400 I mean our engineering team is protest. Yeah, no, we're 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:25.679 about eighty engineers, you know, between engineers, machinists, technician data scientists. 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.520 Data science is a new thing, Like we didn't have 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:29.920 data scientists five years ago, but now we have so 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.120 much data we need to go in there and extract 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.600 it and make sure we're doing meaningful things right. So 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:37.880 we've developed a lot of tools in tech. I think, 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.920 Shane exactly is what you talked about is if you 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.000 want a full bag fitting, you'd be exhausted, right. 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.240 I mean it's almost half a day to come here 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.440 and get fit through the bag because again you want 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.640 to make sure everybody's comfortable wedge through driver. 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:55.120 Yep, exactly. So that full bag fit and a skilled 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.600 fitter and we focus this a lot here is not 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.920 going to allow that golfer to rake balls over whack 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.079 a rake at, whack it and they're get tired, right. 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.640 So a lot of times in that fitting experience we'll 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.319 do very simple things like this. Golfers start to hit 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.360 drivers and we will pull the golf balls away and 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.240 start tossing to them like a tour player. So they're 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.200 hitting one ball at a time. Okay, now why do 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.880 we do that? It brings in more focus. We can 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.800 control the pace of them fitting. So if you can tell, oh, 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.240 they're kind of drag them over whacking them, Hey, take 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.679 a little breather, recalibrate, Hey, we're going to set you 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:29.920 up in a game like fitting environment that we call it. 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.600 See those poles out there, that's your fair way, you know, 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:37.840 hit your natural shot. Or we'll create situational games like 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.719 pretend you're on a reachable par five, you know, give me, 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.360 give me your swing there. I think when we were 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.920 when we were working with you, even on irons, we 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.280 had you hit different shots, hit your knockdown shot right, 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.160 hit your stinger driver, what would you do if the 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.560 wind's blowing? And so a really good fitting situation. We 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.760 can put you in those encore simulations and make sure 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.000 the club's going to be working for those scenarios. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:01.880 And I know you guys have been working on technology, 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.280 and I think this is really really smart because I'd say, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.280 as someone that observes golfers a lot, and obviously I 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.839 don't live in your space, but the gapping is a 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.600 big issue. And I mean even for professional golfers, gapping 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:14.680 is an issue. I think would you call the bad 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:16.959 area over two hundred yards? Say yeah, the tour players 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.280 sat zone, planger zone if you're two hundred and two thirty. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.800 Even for tour players, at times, they feel way less 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.240 comfortable in that world because they're less clubs that they 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.280 can go after and hit in that space. I know 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.319 you guys have been working on technology to help you 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.440 guys out in that world as well. For again, for 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.680 someone that wants to come in get fit, doesn't have 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:35.720 all data hit balls, and doesn't want to get exhausted 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:36.559 going through the bag. 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.079 Yeah, exactly is We're developing and we have and we 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.800 can continue to refine a tool called the Gapping app, 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.440 which is which gives our fitters that ability to figure 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.520 out what is the optimal set makeup for your bag 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.640 And really you don't want to look at when you 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:54.720 go to get fit. It's like, hey, I need to 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.600 go get new irons. Well, that might impact how you 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.920 gap your wedges. That might impact how you transition to 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.840 either hybrids or high lofted fairway woods. And that's one 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:09.280 of the toughest problems to solve out there, because a 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.719 golfer might not have a fitter in, a golfer might 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.240 not have access to hit all those different clubs, see 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.600 what they're going to do the time and energy to 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.240 do that. So we're building more and more tools to 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.880 predict how they would hit those clubs, and our predictions 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.200 are getting more and more accurate. We're kind of feeding. 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.880 It's kind of like is real artificial intelligence. We're feeding 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.480 our algorithms and our model with data from ping man 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.320 player testing the fittings we do, and as we do that, 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.800 the algorithms are getting smarter and smarter, and it scales 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.360 for fast players like yourself, where you might end your 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.680 bag at a four iron or some of our even 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.240 faster players a twenty fee hour ending it at three iron, 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.640 to your slower swing speed golfer that's going to start 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.160 there in their irons at a seven iron and then 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.960 play six hybrid. So it's really fun. You can go 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.440 in there and simulate, hey, how would that hybrid trajectory 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.680 compared to a fairway wood. Some golfers prefer fairwywoods over 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.080 hybrids or vice versa. Right, So you can do a 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:11.080 lot of these what if experiments without exhausting the player, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.920 and quite frankly, we can actually do a better fit 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.800 just having to get really good seven iron numbers than 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.120 exhausting them and having them hit all these these fairwywoods 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:21.640 and long irons and things of that nature. 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.320 What do you tell people that come in and go, Okay, 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:25.920 I gotta get fit for my driver. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:26.840 I love my driver. 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:28.720 Obviously, you know, it's the most fun club to hit 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:30.560 in the bag. I want to get fit for my driver. 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.760 I want to get fit for my woods, but maybe 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:34.240 I don't want to spend too much time on my 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.200 wedges or even you know, here in the putting lab 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.000 with the putter, what do you say to people that 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.360 are maybe focused a little bit more on the clubs 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.160 that hit it far and maybe less on the clubs 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:42.520 that don't. 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.120 Yeah, I think it's a good question. I mean, when 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.240 you're part of the fitting process is to interview the 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.200 golfer and get to know what's important to them, right, 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.600 So I think it's it's our job to know, maybe statistically, 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.600 what are the most important clubs in the bag, And 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.520 candidly the driver is the most important, is the biggest 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.880 contribution to score. I'd men be a controversial thing because 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.080 everyone's like, oh, you hit you know, you hit more 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.320 shots with your putter, therefore it must be the most important. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.520 But the putter and the driver are close. It's almost 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.560 tied for first of which is the most important for scoring. 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.720 But the driver leads a little bit. So if it's 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.320 that scenario, I mean, we one hundred percent support them. 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.480 Trying to get them dialed in on the driver because 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.920 A it's fun and BA has the biggest contribution to scoring. 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.720 But second with that is your putter right. And we 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.880 see so many folks that in that scenario we would say, hey, 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.080 just give me a few putts with your putter. Let's 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:35.840 make sure you're in the right stroke type. So one 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.280 of the lowest hanging fruit we see in putters is 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.000 to match how somebody how much they rotate the face 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.600 of the putter and make sure they're in the right balance. 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.440 So to simplify, it's, you know, either face balance or 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:52.160 strong arc or tow down putter right. And so that's 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.360 a simple way to kind of get in there. Provide 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.320 some stats, Hey, this is how much putting contributes to 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.160 your overall score of the game, and then we can 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.200 do things like showcase performance. If it's wedges, hey let's 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.240 just chip a few while you're warming up. Just chip 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.119 a few here, and we can take a look at 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.040 the grinds and see, hey, get you know, maybe they're 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.760 kind of steep. We'll give them a wide soul and 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.480 they'll get that click, they'll get a little more turf protection, 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.919 they won't fat one every once in a while, and 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.800 so you can kind of subtly introduce the introduce those 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.920 concepts if they're if they're kind of like, yeah, I 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:25.600 don't want to look at my my wedges and my 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:27.800 putter and some people a lot of people are intimidated 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.320 by getting fit for wedges. Great, yep, right, it's a 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.560 chipping can be a scary thing for a lot of golfers. 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.440 So a good fitter will empathize with the player and 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.360 not too much put too much pressure on them, maybe 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.360 have them hit a few while they're go assembling they're 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.560