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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridge Todd and this

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Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, where we explore

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Speaker 1: the intersections of identity, social media, and technology and y'all,

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Speaker 1: I take one week from rounding up the news and

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Speaker 1: we get the big update that is the big TikTok update. Joey,

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Speaker 1: were you surprised to see that Biden signed legislation essentially

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Speaker 1: banning TikTok into law this week?

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Speaker 2: Like, I want to say that I'm I was surprised,

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Speaker 2: but at this point, I don't know, I'm not not

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Speaker 2: really not really surprised. I feel like, who's to say,

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Speaker 2: what's happening with this administration?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's kind of how I feel. So I

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Speaker 1: want to tell folks like what's going on, and then

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Speaker 1: I'll get into sort of my thoughts about it. So,

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Speaker 1: in case you have not heard, this week, President Biden

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Speaker 1: signed a foreign aid package that includes a bill that

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Speaker 1: would ban TikTok if the China based parent company Byte

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Speaker 1: Dance fails to divest from the app and sell it

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Speaker 1: to a non Chinese owned company. We have been talking

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Speaker 1: about the potential for a TikTok ban for a while.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like there was some like very serious political

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Speaker 1: maneuvering to get where we are today. So earlier this year,

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Speaker 1: House lawmakers overwhelmingly voted in favor the bill called the

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Speaker 1: Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act when it

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Speaker 1: was brought as like a standalone measure with a shorter

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Speaker 1: timeframe for byte Dance to sell TikTok. So that timeframe

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Speaker 1: was six months. It seemed like that bill, even though

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Speaker 1: a lot of people in the House were like, yes,

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Speaker 1: this bill like it passed overwhelmingly, it seemed like it

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Speaker 1: might have had trouble passing in the Senate, Like key

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Speaker 1: Senate leaders were pretty noncommittal about it, some even signal

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Speaker 1: that they might not vote for it. So the way

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Speaker 1: to get this TikTok legislation through then became bundling it

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Speaker 1: into the High Priority Foreign Aid Package, which essentially forced

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Speaker 1: the Senate to take up the issue earlier than it

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Speaker 1: probably would have otherwise. Right, So, how this worked was

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Speaker 1: that in addition to separate votes on aid packages for Ukraine, Israel,

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Speaker 1: and Taiwan, lawmakers were also voting on the twenty first

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Speaker 1: century Piece Through Strength Act, which was sort of like

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Speaker 1: a grab bag of popular national security measures that Slate

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Speaker 1: reports included things like bills to seize frozen Russian assets

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Speaker 1: or the ability to impose sanctions on Ventanel traffickers, and

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Speaker 1: a lot more sort of like national security stuff, and

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Speaker 1: that the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act

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Speaker 1: aka the TikTok legislation was sort of bundled within that

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Speaker 1: larger legislation. In order to get aid for any of

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Speaker 1: these countries, senators had to vote for the entire package,

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Speaker 1: which included the TikTok bills. That's kind of how we

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Speaker 1: got to where we are right now, where in earlier episodes, Joey,

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Speaker 1: you and I were like, oh, maybe it'll happen, like

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Speaker 1: maybe the Senate will pass it. I guess we're gonna

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Speaker 1: discuss it. We'll see how we went from that to like, oh,

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Speaker 1: now to sign into law.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like the kind of thing that like

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Speaker 2: shouldn't happen in a functioning democracy. I will say, like,

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Speaker 2: I don't. It feels like the kind of thing that

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Speaker 2: maybe we shouldn't just have like a grab bag of

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Speaker 2: different legislation that has to all be passed together, which

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Speaker 2: all on its own is you know, open to scrutiny.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, the piece through strength act too like that.

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Speaker 2: I'm not one to say things sound like they're like

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four esque, but that is a nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: four type law. Name like, are you serious like that?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, and yeah, no, I will, I mean,

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Speaker 2: like you said, I will admit I was. I honestly

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Speaker 2: did not think this is going to pass. I thought

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Speaker 2: the Biden administration current is facing ill a lot of

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Speaker 2: scrutiny about a lot of different issues, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of different issues, particularly.

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Speaker 3: That young people are paying attention to.

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Speaker 2: You know, I would have thought this maybe would have

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Speaker 2: been a little bit less priority for them, but guess not.

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Speaker 3: Guess not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is so. So I want to get into

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Speaker 1: that because I feel like that is really coloring a

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Speaker 1: lot of a conversation is like that exact sentiment, And

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Speaker 1: I feel like, I think I've said this on the

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Speaker 1: show before that I thought that we would see a

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Speaker 1: TikTok ban in twenty twenty four, like I was. That

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Speaker 1: was on my my bingo card of legislation that I

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Speaker 1: thought was gonna happen. However, I think the fact that

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Speaker 1: we were talking about this standalone legislation and then we're

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Speaker 1: talking about it as bundled in these these foreign aid packages,

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Speaker 1: Like I guess, I'm surprised by how it ended up happening,

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Speaker 1: how quickly it happened. I thought we had a lot

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Speaker 1: more time, but here we are. So in the previous

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Speaker 1: version of this standalone legislation, Bite Dan's had six months

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Speaker 1: to sell TikTok to a non Chinese owner. But the

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Speaker 1: legislation that Biden just signed into law this week extends

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Speaker 1: that timeline. So the new law would allow TikTok to

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Speaker 1: continue to operate in the US if Fight Dance sold

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Speaker 1: it within two hundred and seventy days or about nine months,

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Speaker 1: a time frame that Biden could extend up to a year.

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Speaker 1: In case you're wondering, this timeline puts the date of

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Speaker 1: sale and whatever happens after that sale after the election

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Speaker 1: in November, which I cannot imagine is by coincidence. I

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Speaker 1: wonder why he picked that date, you know, So lawmakers

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Speaker 1: are really going out of their way to try to

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Speaker 1: make sure that people don't think of this as a

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Speaker 1: TikTok ban specifically, they're like, TikTok ban, what are you

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Speaker 1: talking about? Like, we love TikTok, We don't want to

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Speaker 1: keep TikTok from people. So Virginia Democrat Mark Warner, who

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Speaker 1: was one of the lawmakers who was really pushing this legislation, said,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to make clear to all Americans, this

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Speaker 1: is not an effort to take your voice away. Many Americans,

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Speaker 1: particularly young Americans, are rightfully skeptical. At the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, They've not seen what Congress said. They've not

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Speaker 1: been in the classified briefings that Congress has held, which

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Speaker 1: have delved more deeply into some of the threats posed

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Speaker 1: by foreign control of TikTok. But what they have seen

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Speaker 1: beyond even this bill is Congress has failure to enact

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Speaker 1: meaningful consumer protections on big tech and may cynically view

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Speaker 1: this as a diversion or worse, a concession to US

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Speaker 1: social media platforms. To those young Americans, Joey, I want

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Speaker 1: to say, we hear your concern, and we hope that

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Speaker 1: TikTok will continue under new ownership American or otherwise, what

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Speaker 1: do you think about that?

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Speaker 2: You know, I really feel seen and heard I really

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Speaker 2: feel like the Democratic Party definitely got at all of

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Speaker 2: my concerns about this legigulation.

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Speaker 3: I yeah, oh my god, that makes so much sense.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it's just classified information that we haven't seen.

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Speaker 3: It's I don't know, I mean.

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Speaker 2: That's so that's such a ridiculous statement for so many reasons. Like,

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Speaker 2: first of all, that is so so paiere, and I

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Speaker 2: feel like that like we're in.

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Speaker 3: A weird spot where I think a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of politicians are very much like leaning on that, like well,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's just well, there's classified information you don't

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Speaker 2: know about or whatever, and I don't think that's working

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Speaker 2: as well in this situation, because, like the whole point

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Speaker 2: is it's an issue of freedom of speech, and it's

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Speaker 2: an issue of like, hey, you've had all these very

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Speaker 2: public congressional trials. I mean we all saw that the

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Speaker 2: congressional trial and the clip of them asking the Singaporean

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Speaker 2: CEO of TikTok if he was a member of the

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Speaker 2: Communist Party of China or whatever. So I feel like

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Speaker 2: that that excuse doesn't hold up as well. And then yeah,

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Speaker 2: like they're they're he just laid it out there, he said.

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Speaker 3: You know, oh no, no, no, don't worry.

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Speaker 2: The issue isn't that we're caving to us social media platforms,

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Speaker 2: except that is exactly what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Like, Yeah, I don't know, it feels it's it's so.

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Speaker 2: Strange and so patronizing, and I I think feel very

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Speaker 2: similarly to a lot of these young Americans that he's

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Speaker 2: addressing and that this this sounds like bullshit.

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Speaker 1: And I think the reason why it sounds like bullshit

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Speaker 1: is that we just don't know what he's referring to.

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Speaker 1: It's classified, right, so exactly, you know, they've cited national

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Speaker 1: security concerns stemming from the app's Chinese ownership. Specifically, they

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Speaker 1: have talked about like the possibility of the Chinese government

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Speaker 1: like accessing data of American users or using the app

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Speaker 1: and it's like very powerful algorithm to spread propaganda or

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Speaker 1: influence elections and spread chaos. Right as far as I know,

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Speaker 1: like this is a little bit out of my wheelhouse,

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Speaker 1: as far as I know, to us the American people,

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Speaker 1: that is largely like theoretical, like oh, they could potentially,

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Speaker 1: they could do this. It's not like we have a

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Speaker 1: smoking gun of them doing that on like a wide scale.

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Speaker 1: I'm not in these these classified briefings, So I have

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Speaker 1: no idea. But members of Congress are referring to information

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Speaker 1: that they say that they have seen and heard in

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Speaker 1: the security briefings about the potential for TikTok to harm

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Speaker 1: American interests. But we just don't know about any of

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Speaker 1: that because the contents of these briefings are not public.

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Speaker 1: So we're just being told, TikTok this app that you're

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Speaker 1: using every day, that many many of these elected officials,

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Speaker 1: Biden included, are using all the time, it is this

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Speaker 1: massive security threat. Just trust us.

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Speaker 2: I think the real issue is I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of these Congress people are just upset that they're not

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Speaker 2: getting the number of followers that I thought they would

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Speaker 2: get on TikTok. That's my theory because and that's understandable,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I get it. I've been frustrated sometimes

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Speaker 2: when I made a video that I put a lot

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Speaker 2: of effort into and I wanted it to perform better.

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Speaker 2: That's understandable. If that's your reason for wanting to ban TikTok,

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Speaker 2: just say that, I think you'll get a lot more

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Speaker 2: people on your side.

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Speaker 1: Listen. I would be sympathetic. I tried TikTok and TikTok

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Speaker 1: for me was a flop. I am not a TikTok early.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, I have to accept that about myself.

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Speaker 1: So I would be if they came out and said that,

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Speaker 1: I would be they would have my sympathy. I'd be like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: my TikTok's never do numbers either. I get it.

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Speaker 3: We all been there.

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Speaker 1: So there is some talk of the need for transparency

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Speaker 1: into what these lawmakers are saying that like, we don't know.

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Speaker 1: Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal and Republican Senator Marshall Blackburn are

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Speaker 1: calling for TikTok briefings to be declassified so that the

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Speaker 1: government can quote better educate the public on the need

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Speaker 1: for urgent action. We are deeply troubled by the information

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Speaker 1: and concerns raised by the intelligence community in recent classified

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Speaker 1: briefings to Congress. TikTok is a weapon in the hands

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Speaker 1: of the Chinese government and poses an active risk to

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Speaker 1: our democratic institutions and national security.

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Speaker 2: They wrote, Uh, Senators Blumenthal and Blackburn, that is the

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Speaker 2: duo that also brought you the Kids Online Safety Act.

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Speaker 1: So oh, there we go.

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Speaker 2: Take I mean, you know, I am very curious to

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Speaker 2: see what what I you know what I think. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 2: if if they do release this information, if you show

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Speaker 2: the public what is what actually is the scary classified

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Speaker 2: information that that is the reason I need a band TikTok.

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Speaker 2: But knowing them and their history, it's probably just like

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Speaker 2: there were trans people on the app.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I think that Joey, I think that you

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Speaker 1: and I talked about this. Blackburn specifically earlier in earlier

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Speaker 1: iterations of the Kids Online Safety Act, was like pretty

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Speaker 1: explicitly when I asked like, oh, what's your beef with

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Speaker 1: the internet, Like why do you want to have this?

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Speaker 1: Why do you want to regulate it in this way?

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Speaker 1: She was like, oh, you know, we were planning on

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Speaker 1: using it to make sure that content about transidentity doesn't

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Speaker 1: reach youth. We want to keep youth from that kind

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Speaker 1: of unsafe information. And then people were like really, and

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Speaker 1: then she was like, oh, no, no, I was misquot

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Speaker 1: when I was misquoted, but it's like a video, so

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Speaker 1: you really were misquoted. I saw you say it on

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Speaker 1: a video with my eyes.

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Speaker 3: Guys, it was out of context.

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Speaker 1: That is really good, Like, I'm glad that you added that,

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Speaker 1: and honestly, like, when it comes to something as expansive

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Speaker 1: and impactful as like regulating the Internet or regulating the

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Speaker 1: social media apps that we use, which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to make it seem like I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: platforms should just be able to do with they whatever

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Speaker 1: they want, Like that is not how I feel. However,

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Speaker 1: it does just highlight that like people like Blackburn, who

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Speaker 1: have a really clear public record of how she feels

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Speaker 1: and how she is going to use this kind of

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Speaker 1: Internet legislation and regulation to further marginalize and criminalize marginalize

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Speaker 1: people Like we're not making that up. She says that

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Speaker 1: it is concerning to me that these are the people

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Speaker 1: who are being tasked with making changes and laws about

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Speaker 1: how we access or don't access the Internet. Like that,

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Speaker 1: on its face is really troubling to me. Let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick break back, so find this on this legislation.

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Speaker 1: What happens now, Well, probably for all of us and

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Speaker 1: all of you listening, nothing really in the short term.

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Speaker 1: So first of all, TikTok is not going anywhere for

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Speaker 1: at least a couple of months. The countdown clock where

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Speaker 1: they need to sell has started, but like they have

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Speaker 1: eight months to do to figure that out. So It's

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Speaker 1: not like TikTok's not gonna work on your phone right now.

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Speaker 1: But even still, this probably is the beginning of what

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Speaker 1: will be a complicated legal challenge. TikTok has already signaled

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Speaker 1: that they intend to fight this legislation in the courts.

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Speaker 1: TikTok's chief executive show Too said, rest assured, we are

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Speaker 1: not going anywhere. We are confident and we will keep

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Speaker 1: fighting for your rights in the courts. Side note, it

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Speaker 1: is really interesting to me how TikTok has framed this

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Speaker 1: as like we are fighting for your rights. Like I

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Speaker 1: love TikTok. I'm actually wearing a TikTok sweatshirt right now,

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Speaker 1: I cut from an event, which like, it's not because

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Speaker 1: I'm in the bag for big TikTok. Although if they

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Speaker 1: wanted to pay me, no, I'm just kidding. No, I

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Speaker 1: don't take money from social media platforms. But yeah, yet,

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Speaker 1: I mean, nobody's made me a compelling offer this This

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Speaker 1: sweatshirt is very nice, but it's not gonna cut it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting how they've been able to publicly

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Speaker 1: frame this as like, oh, we're not fighting for our

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Speaker 1: like platform that we run and own and make money

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Speaker 1: from we're fighting for you and your rights. Like It's

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Speaker 1: an interesting framing one that I don't totally agree with,

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Speaker 1: but I get why they're I get why they're framing

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Speaker 1: it that way. Like when I was looking at the

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Speaker 1: images from some of the in person like rallies in

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Speaker 1: support of TikTok, TikTok had clearly given out signs for

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Speaker 1: folks to hold that would say like, I'm one of

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Speaker 1: the however many TikTok users there are in America who

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Speaker 1: wants my rights represented. Like they've really been able to

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Speaker 1: frame this as like a grassroots like we're just fighting

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Speaker 1: for your it's kind of thing like Airbnb. I feel like,

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Speaker 1: really set the playbook for how to how to make

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Speaker 1: it seem like, oh, this isn't like a big tech

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Speaker 1: company advocating in this way. This is like just local, grassroots,

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Speaker 1: mom and pop small businesses. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Oh, bridge it so it's like you, uh have some

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Speaker 2: some personal experience with the airbnbs or can I.

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Speaker 1: Say I do? I do? That is a conversation for

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Speaker 1: another day. But I know quite a bit about it.

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Speaker 2: Actually, Yeah, No, it has been strange though, I mean

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Speaker 2: I understand why they're doing it. It's a it's a

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Speaker 2: good like, for lack of a better word, propaganda technique

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Speaker 2: to get people to be on your side. And I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't, I don't fully agree with what they're saying.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, it is.

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Speaker 2: A First Amendment you know issue, and I it is

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Speaker 2: a it is definitely, it's definitely straight. We're in a

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Speaker 2: very strange well, I mean, I don't know, We're we're

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Speaker 2: walking around talking about what is happening kind of on

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Speaker 2: a larger scale right now in the US regarding freedom

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Speaker 2: of speech and the fact that there have been massive

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Speaker 2: crackdowns on peaceful protests and freedom of speech happening across

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Speaker 2: the country on college campuses and you know, beyond.

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Speaker 3: But it is.

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Speaker 2: This, Yeah, it is a weird situation. And it is TikTok,

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Speaker 2: you know, not necessarily. They don't have the best track

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Speaker 2: record of honoring that freedom of speech they're claiming to

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Speaker 2: be fighting for right now.

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Speaker 3: But maybe they're turning a page. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: So it does sound like that TikTok is going to

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Speaker 1: be appealing this on First Amendment kind of free speech grounds.

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Speaker 1: According to The New York Times, the company is expected

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Speaker 1: to argue that a forced sale of TikTok could violate

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Speaker 1: its users free speech rights because a new owner could

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Speaker 1: potentially change the apps content policies and reshape what users

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Speaker 1: are able to freely share and communicate about on the platform.

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Speaker 1: TikTok actually already has some precedent for fighting bans in

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Speaker 1: the courts using exactly this logic, and the platform has

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Speaker 1: actually already won similar First Amendment battles in the courts

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Speaker 1: back when Trump was president. He tried to force a

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Speaker 1: sale or a ban of the app in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: but federal judges blocked that effort because it would have

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Speaker 1: had the effect of shutting down, quote, a platform for

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Speaker 1: expressive activity. We talked about this on the show a

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Speaker 1: while back, but y'all might recall that Montana tried to

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Speaker 1: ban TikTok in the state last year because of the

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Speaker 1: app's Chinese ownership, but a different federal judge ruled against

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Speaker 1: that state law for similar reasons. So far, there's actually

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Speaker 1: only been one state level TikTok ban that survived a

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Speaker 1: court challenge. It was super narrow. It only applied to

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Speaker 1: state employees in Texas, where the governor announced a ban

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Speaker 1: of the app on state government devices and networks in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two because of the Chinese ownership and related

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Speaker 1: data concerns. Professors at public universities challenged that ban in

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Speaker 1: the court, saying that it actually blocked them from being

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Speaker 1: able to do research into the app, which actually, to

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Speaker 1: me makes a lot of sense. A federal judge upheld

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Speaker 1: the state ban in December, finding that it was reasonable

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Speaker 1: restriction in light of Texas's concerns and that narrow scope

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Speaker 1: only impacting state employees. So that was the only time

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Speaker 1: that one of these bands was actually upheld in the court.

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Speaker 1: So there is like a strong track record for TikTok

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Speaker 1: being able to successfully fight these bands in the courts. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I remember the Montana when we talked about

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Speaker 2: the Montana ban that did not work, And part of

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Speaker 2: the reason it didn't work is like it is like surprise, surprise,

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Speaker 2: It's hard to like ban an app that people already

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Speaker 2: have on their phones or you can then go to

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Speaker 2: another state or have a VPN or whatever to download.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting because the Texas legislation is the only

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Speaker 2: one that I'm like, Okay, it is still ridiculous, but

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Speaker 2: I get where they're coming from with that, Like Okay, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 2: if it's a the issue is like we're worried about

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Speaker 2: the Chinese government spying on the US, Like yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: if it's if it's government employees, like that I think

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Speaker 2: is more or less reasonable. Again, I still don't agree

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Speaker 2: with it because I think it is not coming from

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Speaker 2: any a, it's not coming from a reality, and then

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Speaker 2: b it's it is still I think, in my opinion

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Speaker 2: of freedom of speech infringement.

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Speaker 3: But the fact that like I feel like and maybe

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Speaker 3: this is.

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Speaker 2: Me having like a like a rosy view of like

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Speaker 2: the pre Trump administration sort of conversation around this, but

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Speaker 2: I feel like that is kind of would be the

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Speaker 2: most extreme legislation you would see around this for a

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Speaker 2: really long time, Like that would kind of be the

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Speaker 2: what would be like the more conservative viewpoint for a while.

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Speaker 2: And now it's just gone so far that it's like, no,

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Speaker 2: we're just going to completely ban this app.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That's actually what made me initially pretty convinced that

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Speaker 1: we would see a federal TikTok ban in our in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four was because how many different states we're

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Speaker 1: banning TikTok from like government or public like public university devices.

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Speaker 1: I almost like, oh, this is happening pretty swiftly. That

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Speaker 1: seems to be like the like the the there seems

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Speaker 1: to be a pretty quick vibe shift around this happening.

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Speaker 1: That's what kind of initially made me think like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I think this might this might actually be something that

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Speaker 1: we see.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think and I think again, Like like I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm just just because I don't think that it's it's

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Speaker 2: a reasonable legislation, because yeah, then that the element is

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Speaker 2: when you're just saying government, you know, employees or property

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Speaker 2: or whatever, that does also include yeah, like public universities

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Speaker 2: and a lot of things that aren't necessarily like the

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Speaker 2: government government.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, this.

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Speaker 2: Is it has been a weird road to get here

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Speaker 2: and here we are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it gets even weirder when you

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Speaker 1: ask the question of like, okay, so the government will

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Speaker 1: be forcing a sale to a different owner that is

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Speaker 1: not based in China, is there a buyer? Like who

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Speaker 1: would buy it? And the answer to that is like

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Speaker 1: not clear. TikTok has a pretty hefty price tag, so

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Speaker 1: it's like not clear who could even afford it? You know.

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Speaker 1: My initial thought was like oh, elon musk. I feel

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Speaker 1: like these guys don't really have money, like they say,

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Speaker 1: like either think you're a billionaire, but all your money

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Speaker 1: is tied up in like lawsuits and shit.

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Speaker 2: Because my immediate reaction was also that too, where I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, no, it's.

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Speaker 3: Gonna happen again, and I was like.

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Speaker 2: Wait, he's still paying off his bills for Twitter, Like no, no,

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Speaker 2: we're good. I think they should just we should like

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Speaker 2: like they should just keep like bringing the price dout,

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Speaker 2: like you know, supply and demand that whole thing. I

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Speaker 2: think I think we can get a a There are

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Speaker 2: no girls on the internet controlled TikTok by the end

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Speaker 2: of the year. If, oh my god, to keep bringing

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Speaker 2: the price down, that's my proposal. Bridgeon.

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Speaker 3: I think we should purchase TikTok listeners.

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Speaker 1: Let's pull our money.

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Speaker 3: Actually, I mean it's let's start to go fund me.

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Speaker 3: Let's go It's funny.

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Speaker 1: You say this. Just yesterday, one of my favorite disinformation reporters,

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Speaker 1: formerly of NBC, Ben Collins, announced that him and his buddies,

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Speaker 1: this is going to sound like a joke, but it's not.

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Speaker 1: They pulled their money and they bought the onion. So

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Speaker 1: that just happened something familar. Yes, I'm I'm I hand

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Speaker 1: to God. Look it up. Ben Collins formally NBC disinformation reporter.

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Speaker 1: They was announced yesterday morning, like oh Geomdia sold the onion.

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Speaker 1: It's not clear to who they sold it to. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I've never heard of this, this

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Speaker 1: media conglamorate or like this investor group. Wonder who that is.

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Speaker 1: Later that evening, Ben Collins was like, yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: me and my friends. We got together and pulled their money.

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Speaker 1: So now I'm the CEO of the Onion. We're bringing

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Speaker 1: it back, we're giving we're rehiring everybody, We're allowing the

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Speaker 1: stack to control it to in everybody. So that was

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Speaker 1: like like a rare piece of like in my book

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Speaker 1: good Media. He was like good, good people pulling pull

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Speaker 1: pulling their money and actually buying a cool thing, like

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Speaker 1: it could happen. It could happen.

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Speaker 2: For a second, I thought you met like just like

432
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: he was doing disinformation, Like.

433
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because no, can you imagine that you're a

434
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 1: if you're like a bad actor who spreads disinformation and

435
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 1: you buy a well known satire site, like the possibilities

436
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:31,959
Speaker 1: are endless.

437
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: That's how we got x so.

438
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,719
Speaker 2: It's so drunk, like literally it was because of like

439
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: the Bablon be getting found or whatever.

440
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Yeah no, that's wow.

441
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: So yeah, we could tangoty.

442
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 2: We could own TikTok uh it was on subscribers. You

443
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 2: guys get a share of the I watched succession. I

444
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 2: know how this stuff works. Yeah, we we could do it.

445
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: You know, we're we're listen.

446
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 1: If Elon Musk could do it, Joey, you and I

447
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: could certainly do it.

448
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: We could run. We could run TikTok. I think we

449
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: do really good. We would definitely do better than Elon Musk.

450
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: Oh, I have no doubt, no doubt. So probably not

451
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: Elon Musk buying TikTok. A big American tech company like

452
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: Meta or Google. They might have the money to afford

453
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: the like hefty price tag, but they probably would not

454
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: be able to purchase it because of anti trust concerns.

455
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: Right now, Meta is currently fighting a Federal Trade Commission

456
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: lawsuit that alleges that it's purchased of WhatsApp and Instagram

457
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: violated US anti trust law. So the FTC is like

458
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: actively seeking to break that company up. So I don't

459
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: think that Zuckerberg and Meta are going to like pylon

460
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: there right now. Back in twenty twenty, there had been

461
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: some lofty talks of maybe Microsoft with some involvement from

462
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: the retailer Walmart, partnering to buy TikTok. This is back

463
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: when Donald Trump was pushing for a sale. But it

464
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: sounds like those conversations like didn't really go anywhere. It

465
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: could be a private equity firm or a group of investors.

466
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: A former Trump administration Treasury secretary, Stephen Minuchein said that

467
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: he wanted to put a group of investors together to

468
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: buy it. Like what a nightmare that would be, Like

469
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: a Trumper owning TikTok, Elon Musk owning Twitter, Zuckerberg owning

470
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: face like like are like are oh, I don't even

471
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: want to think about that. That would be guys.

472
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 3: Tumblr's still out there.

473
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: Yeah you can buy They're like nobody used like like

474
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: I want someone to like buy one, like buy Zanga

475
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: bring that back right, like like like like zig instead

476
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: of yeah big instead of zagging. Well, everybody's talking about

477
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: these big platforms. Who's buy who's buying up like the

478
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: smaller platforms to bring those back? Remember Bisco that Like

479
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: I remember that was one of the first like aesthetics

480
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: that was ever on my radar, like the Visco lasthetics.

481
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, all right, p Visco girl, Visco girl, What

482
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: happened to Visco?

483
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 3: That's a yeah. She had her moment, she.

484
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: Had her time. So the entire thing is just very

485
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: messy and very complicated, especially thinking through what it would

486
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: actually look like logistically for TikTok to divest from byte Dance.

487
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: There was just a recent report in the Financial Times

488
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: that spoke to two dozen current and former employees that

489
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: said that TikTok has only become more deeply interwoven with

490
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: byte Dance as tensions over the apps ownership have escalated.

491
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: The legislation that biden sign prohibits any connection between TikTok

492
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: and byte Dance after a sale. Yet TikTok employees use

493
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: fyt dance software in their communications, and the company's employees

494
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: are global, with executives in Singapore, Dublin, Los Angeles, Mountain View, California,

495
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: and elsewhere. So it's unclear if byte Dance would actually

496
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: even consider selling TikTok's entire global footprint or just its

497
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: US based operations, where it has about seven thousand employees.

498
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: Like what it would actually logistically look like for byte

499
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: Dance to just sort of tether its US based operations

500
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: for TikTok. It's like unclear. It seems like it would

501
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: be pretty complicated, and because a big source of concern

502
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: is specifically TikTok's algorithm that controls and dictates what American

503
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: audiences see, there was some talk of TikTok maybe trying

504
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: to move forward in the US with a version of

505
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: TikTok that is not controlled by an algorithm to see

506
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: if that changes things, but that would also be pretty complicated.

507
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: The apps recommendation algorithm, which figures out what users like

508
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: and serves up content, is really a key part of TikTok.

509
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: It's kind of like what makes TikTok TikTok. But Chinese

510
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: engineers work on that algorithm, which byte Dance owns, so

511
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: untethering all of that to move forward in the US

512
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: might be kind of tricky. I also read yesterday that

513
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: byte Dance said that they would actually prefer to shut

514
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: TikTok down in the US rather than sell it if

515
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: the Chinese company exhausts all legal options to fight legislation

516
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: to ban the platform, So they would just be like, oh,

517
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: we would rather just like not operate in the US,

518
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: shut it down there and keep going. And honestly, like

519
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: you might be thinking like, oh, that would be a

520
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: bad financial move, but I believe that that's only twenty

521
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: five percent of their revenue. Like, I don't think that

522
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: TikTok is a huge part of the byteedance entire portfolio.

523
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're also I mean not to diminish the

524
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 2: like buying power of the US and how like important

525
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: this is on a kind of economic scale, but also

526
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: like there's there are many other countries out there that

527
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: probably would continue to use TikTok, and I.

528
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: Don't I don't know, I feel like they're gonna be fine.

529
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel exactly the same way. And you know,

530
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: something that you were saying earlier is that, you know,

531
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: Mark Warner in his statement was like, oh, well this

532
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: is don't I don't want people to cynically think we're

533
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: just like in the bag for big tech, but this

534
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: is a big win for American big tech companies. I

535
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: bristle at the framing of this as like a business

536
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: story when it's so much more. But it does need

537
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: to be said that Facebook has been trying to destroy

538
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: TikTok for kind of a while. Folks might recall that

539
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: Facebook reportedly tried to buy TikTok's predecessor, the lip syncing

540
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: app Musically, back in twenty sixteen, but byt dance Is

541
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: ended up acquiring it instead and that became TikTok. So

542
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: they tried to buy it didn't work. When that didn't work,

543
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 1: Facebook did that thing that tech companies do, which is like,

544
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: I will create a similar but less good version of

545
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: my competitor. So in twenty twenty, Facebook launches Reels, which

546
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: was which is you know, was like that short form

547
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: video app for a while. It was essentially just like

548
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: identicals of TikTok, only the content that you would see

549
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: there was like a couple of weeks old. Like my

550
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: friends who didn't have TikTok, they'd always be like, oh

551
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: look at this real I saw, and it will be like

552
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: the thing that the thing that was like hot on

553
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: TikTok like a week ago. You know what I mean, right, Yeah?

554
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 2: I and I love like a group channel Instagram, a

555
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: couple of my friends that are all lovely and this

556
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: is not a dig at them that a liberal often

557
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: send videos and I'm like, I saw that a month ago.

558
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 3: But thank you for sharing it again.

559
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: Joey thinks your reels are whack.

560
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: I think I'm sorry, I'm calling you behind the times

561
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: or whatever, But nobody responds to my TikTok dms, so

562
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: that's what you got.

563
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: So reels has grown pretty steadily thanks to its aggressive

564
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: integration with Instagram. Like when you scroll Instagram, you're basically

565
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: just like getting sort ofd real. So they definitely have

566
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: done some trickery there to like force us all to

567
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: consume reels whether we want to or not, whether it's

568
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: against our will or not. TikTok has maintained its hold

569
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 1: on younger users while also making inroads with adults. For

570
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: a long time, people talked about TikTok as like, oh,

571
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: the dancing app for kids. That was never even really

572
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: true even back then. But like it is certainly not

573
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: true now. The majority of people on TikTok it's young people,

574
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: and it's like people in their thirties, and so it's

575
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: this idea that it's just an app that's popular with kids.

576
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: Is this not true?

577
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: Also, again, I'm gen Z and I'm in my twenties. Like,

578
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: there plenty of people that are gen z that are

579
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: like young adults now, yeah, also use TikTok.

580
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So we did a podcast episode about this with

581
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: TikTok researcher Abby Richards. But basically Facebook's big thing here

582
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: was really successfully demonizing TikTok. Mark Zuckerberg talked about TikTok

583
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,479
Speaker 1: in a speech he made at Georgetown University in twenty nineteen.

584
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: He said, while our services like What'sapp are used by

585
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: protesters and activists everywhere due to strong encryption and privacy

586
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: protections on TikTok, the Chinese app growing quickly around the world,

587
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: mentions of these protests are censored even in the US.

588
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: Is that the internet we want? Which? First of all,

589
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: if you are a protester, you're probably using Signal And

590
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: this is me like again, I'm not being paid by Signal.

591
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: If you're protester or activists, you signal, don't use What's App.

592
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 2: I don't know anybody that is like like a like

593
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: out like an activist, like really really out there activists

594
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: like that uses WhatsApp to talk about like organizing.

595
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: Also yeah, like wow, uh, famous famous.

596
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: Supporter of protesters and activists everywhere, Mark Zuckerberg.

597
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: Yes, friend, to the activist, friend to the protester, Mark Zuckerberg,

598
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: freedom of speech advocate, I what that is?

599
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's ridiculous.

600
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: And of course it's not like a platform like Facebook

601
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: or threads whatever suppressed content about politics or protests or

602
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: social movements like they would never like what, they would.

603
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: Never do that.

604
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: There definitely was not a graphic going around Instagram that

605
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: I reposted. A lot of my friends were posted about

606
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: how to go into your settings and turn off the

607
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: automatic thing that like limited political quote unquote political content

608
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: on everybody you know, for you page or whatever it's

609
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: called on on Instagram, their Instagram stories or whatever. That

610
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: just coincidentally is happening now and absolutely has nothing to

611
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: do with anything happening.

612
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 3: In real life in college campuses right now.

613
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 2: And you know, these protesters that Mark Zuckerberg is like

614
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: best friends with, they definitely definitely this has nothing to

615
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 2: do with that.

616
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So you know, we talked about this on

617
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: the show before that. The Washington Post in twenty twenty

618
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: two reported that Facebook had been paying this major Republican

619
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: consulting firm called Targeted Victory to push local stories and

620
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: op eds that really painted TikTok as this danger to

621
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: society and a danger to young people. Specifically, they talked

622
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: about like all of these dangerous viral TikTok trends, many

623
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: of which happened to actually have started or been spread

624
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: on Facebook. So it was just this this tactic to

625
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: be like, oh, TikTok is so dangerous, when the things

626
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: that they were calling out Facebook either also spread or

627
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: were the originators of a lot of these narratives really

628
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: caught on with lawmakers, who then raised them in congressional hearings.

629
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: There was also this piece in Politico about how TikTok

630
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: kind of misplayed the Washington lobbyist game, counting on their

631
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: large number of users to prevent Congress from actually taking action,

632
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: while not meaningfully responding to these national security concerns that

633
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: lawmakers were bringing up until it was kind of too late.

634
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: I do think that TikTok, because so many people use

635
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 1: it and because people feel strongly about it, I think

636
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: that they really relied on that, like, oh, that alone

637
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 1: is going to be enough to defend us from these

638
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: claims and to keep us strong footing in the United States.

639
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: I think they perhaps misplayed their hand there.

640
00:34:48,000 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 4: More After a quick break, let's get right back into it.

641
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about something that you've brought up,

642
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: which is like what I actually think is going on here.

643
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: So we've talked a ton on the podcast about how

644
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: I think that lawmakers like want to look tough on

645
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: big tech while also remaining very cozy financially with American

646
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: big tech companies. I also think that they want to

647
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: look tough on China's so this is sort of like

648
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: a two birds, one stone kind of thing. But I

649
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: also think that increasingly this is really about young people

650
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: and support for Palestine. So the Washington Post has a

651
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: really interesting piece that will put in the show notes,

652
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: basically breaking this down. They write, when congressional Republicans this

653
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: month repeated their long running calls for a nationwide ban

654
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: on TikTok, they highlighted a data point that they said

655
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: was proof of the apps sinister underpinnings. The number of

656
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: TikTok videos with hashtag free Palestine is dramatically higher than

657
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: those with hashtag stand with Israel. The gap, they said,

658
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: offered evidence that the app, owned by Chinese tech giant Fyteedance,

659
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: was being used to boost propaganda and brainwash American viewers. So,

660
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: like I think that's really kind of a big piece

661
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: of this why we are seeing this anti TikTok legislation

662
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: being bolstered, particularly right now. But as that Washington Post

663
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: piece points out, Facebook and Instagram, TikTok's US based rivals

664
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: show a remarkably similar gap. On Facebook, the free Palestine

665
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: hashtag is found on more than eleven million posts, thirty

666
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: nine times more than those with hashtag stand with Israel.

667
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: On Instagram, the pro Palestinian hashtag is found on six

668
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: million posts, twenty six times more than the pro Israel hashtag.

669
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: So I think that what's going on here is that

670
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: I think lawmakers are seeing people being supportive of Palestine,

671
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: particularly young people, and they're like, what explains this. It

672
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: has to be TikTok. It has to be foreign medaling

673
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: or manipulation. It has to be like the Chinese government

674
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: and sowing chaos and confusion and manipulation with our youth.

675
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: And I really think that is a big part of

676
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: why we are seeing these renewed efforts.

677
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 3: To ban the app exactly. Yeah.

678
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think talking about this too, and this is

679
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 2: kind of this has been an ongoing conversation, is that

680
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: they're there have like the the political establishment and kind

681
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: of like the powers that be for a while have

682
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: been very shocked by this fact that quote unquote all

683
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I'm not I don't think that's actually

684
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: the case, but like, all of a sudden, all of

685
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 2: these young people are being a little bit more skeptical

686
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: about the kind of like established narrative of what is

687
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,959
Speaker 2: happening in Palestine and what's happening in Gaza, and I think,

688
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 2: you know, I think a lot of politicians and a

689
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 2: lot of these officials are have been sort of surprised

690
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: and taken aback by the protests. Again, I don't think

691
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: they should be, because I think, like a if you

692
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: look at history, there is a like a lot of people,

693
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: especially with the protests happening right now, have brought up

694
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: like Kent State and brought up a lot of the

695
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 2: Vietnam protests and sort of the similarities. It's like, there

696
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 2: isn't it's not like there isn't a president for this.

697
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: And then also like from their perspective, it's like, oh,

698
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: it's that these apps that are doing propaganda, but it's

699
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: like no, a lot of what is actually happening is

700
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 2: just that there are videos of what's happening on the

701
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: ground and god so that are going around social media.

702
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: There are you know, families that are trapped, There are

703
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: people that are on the ground there, There are reporters

704
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 2: that are on the ground there that are able to

705
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: get that information to a wider audience because of social

706
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: media and are able to you know, there are other

707
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: kind of options other than just sort of these legacy

708
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,479
Speaker 2: media companies that are providing information about what's happening, and

709
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: that is making a lot of people question the sort

710
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: of narrative that they've been told about the situation. That

711
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 2: is making a lot of people want to look more

712
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 2: into these and I think for a lot of people, like.

713
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 3: The patterns are sort of clicking.

714
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: It is sort of like making sense that like hey,

715
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 2: you know, this isn't this isn't like a new thing.

716
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: This is like you know, I don't know, I was

717
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 2: growing up in sort of like the aftermath of the

718
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: like Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and like it's interesting, like

719
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 2: people keep pointing to Vietnam, but like that was really

720
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 2: not that long ago, Like you know, the the Iraq

721
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 2: War going into the Iraq War over a like complete

722
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 2: live was not that long ago.

723
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 3: Like people remember that. People are responding to that.

724
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: Young people remember that because like again, like myself, a

725
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 2: lot of us like grew up in the.

726
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 3: Aftermath of that. I will say, I think a lot

727
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 3: of this this.

728
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: Argument drives me insane, Like I'm not surprised by it,

729
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 2: because I do think it is like the easiest route

730
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: for the a lot of these politicians to go is

731
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 2: just the like, oh, it's just it's the kids that

732
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 2: are wrong or they they don't they're just you know, brainwashed.

733
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: There's no way that these you people that are studying

734
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: at universities and are paying attention to what's happening in

735
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 2: the news and are putting together, you know, the puzzle

736
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 2: pieces of like hey, what we're seeing isn't new. A

737
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: lot of this has happened before, and has happened repeatedly

738
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 2: in different contexts. Like there's kind of this idea that like, oh,

739
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 2: they don't understand anything, they just don't get it.

740
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 3: They must be being brainwashed.

741
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: That's the only explanation, because if there's any like any

742
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: other explanation would force me to acknowledge the fact that like, yeah,

743
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 2: a lot of this is very fucked up, but a

744
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: lot of this is like, you know, like it's easier

745
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: to kind of be patronizing to people than it is

746
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: to give them credit for how smart and thoughtful people

747
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: actually can be. And the fact that you know, what

748
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: is happening right now is very very clearly wrong and

749
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: fucked up and people are not happy about it. And

750
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it's easier to say say like, oh,

751
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,479
Speaker 2: well there's being watch, let's stick with the status quote

752
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 2: than it is to actually want to make any change.

753
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think like that, like that's why that

754
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: statement from Mark Horner hit me so weird, because it's like, ultimately,

755
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: I think that you're exactly right. These these arguments to me,

756
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: sound very limiting to young people. They sound very condescending

757
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 1: to young people. It makes it seem like young people

758
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: are not smart enough or with it enough to look

759
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: around at what's going on and make an assessment when

760
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 1: they absolutely are. It just feels very callous to me.

761
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,720
Speaker 1: And I think like, given that we're in an election

762
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: year and we're hearing lots of elected officials and politicians

763
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: who want your vote, like signaling like, oh yeah, we

764
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 1: want the youth vote, it's like they're saying, we want

765
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: y'all's vote, but we don't think you're smart enough to

766
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: understand what's going on in the world.

767
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 3: And we're also not going to listen.

768
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: That's exactly like I mean, I a lot of people

769
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: have pointed out are like quoting Fras East Sire is

770
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: the bare minimum And what the Biden administration just finally

771
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 2: like made a statement kind of calling for a ceasefire

772
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 2: like a couple of weeks ago, right, Like it's I

773
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 2: think like this is they want they talk a lot

774
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: to talk about how important the youth vot is or

775
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 2: how important like marginalized groups are or whatever to this election,

776
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 2: and then they're doing nothing to actually address what people

777
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: are asking for and what people are and like, yeah, no,

778
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: like I'm sorry if you are actively suppressing the freedom

779
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: of speech of the group that you are trying to

780
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: get to vote for you, and then you're like to

781
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 2: the point where you are sending like the cops to

782
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 2: go mass arrest people for peacefully protesting, like like either

783
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: you're just stupid and short sighted or like you want

784
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: to lose, Like I don't know what to tell you

785
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 2: at that point.

786
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And something else that you said is that this

787
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: idea that oh well, certainly this is coming from manipulation

788
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: via TikTok, Like this is young people are feeling this

789
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: way all of a sudden, and that's just not true.

790
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: Young Americans have consistently shown support for Palestinians in Pew

791
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: Research surveys, including in a poll in twenty fourteen, four

792
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: years before TikTok ever launched in the United States. And

793
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: so this idea that like, oh, it's just TikTok manipulating

794
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: young people with their algorithm, how do you have account

795
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: for the fact that younger people have consistently shown support

796
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: for Palestinians even before TikTok was ever a thing.

797
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 3: Here exactly exactly.

798
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't like I I will say I

799
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: supposely as somebody who was was in college before TikTok

800
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: really took off, but like like kind of kind of

801
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: like literally like right before that time, like this was

802
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: it wasn't like this again. It wasn't like this appeared

803
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: own of nowhere. These were conversations that were happening. These

804
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: were like there were the efforts to for the camp,

805
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 2: the college that I went to, there were a lot

806
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: of major efforts to get them to divest from, you know,

807
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: fossil deal companies and also like a lot of these

808
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: companies that were you know, making weapons that were like

809
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,399
Speaker 2: you know, actively do it.

810
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 3: The companies that are that are.

811
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 2: Doing this stuff that is now being you know broad

812
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 2: like now I think has reached a wider audience like that.

813
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 2: It's again, it's it's not like it came out of nowhere.

814
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: And I think anybody that is like paid attention to

815
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 2: the news or to current events or to like like

816
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 2: contemporary like politics or like global politics could tell you

817
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: that and could tell you that none of this is

818
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: like new and none of this is just like appearing

819
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: out of nowhere. But you know, it's a very convenient

820
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: narrative for the people that want to keep up the

821
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 2: status quo that this is just popped out of nowhere

822
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 2: and it's TikTok's fault, clearly.

823
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it really. I mean I I

824
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: was there for a lot of that. I got my

825
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: start as somebody who was like a leftist with campus

826
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: organizing like that was like like I was in high school,

827
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: when I was in I think tenth grade when nine

828
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: to eleven happened, and anti war organizing was just like that,

829
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: like that's when that became a thing for me, and

830
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: so it you know, I was in high school when

831
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: all that was popping off, and I was just started

832
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: like it was like my my up sort of political

833
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: or like radical consciousness awakening, and I was like the

834
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: exact right age for it. I will not sit here

835
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: and tell you that I had the perfect practice that

836
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: everything I ever did was like well, got out smart,

837
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: like logical blah blah blah. I mean I was nineteen

838
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: and I was in nineteen.

839
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 3: You weren't like a perfect political like.

840
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was nineteen and I was high all the time.

841
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: And I guess I say that to say, like so

842
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: for me, it was anti war organizing. It was School

843
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: of the America's watch organizing, like like yes, that was

844
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: a little bit of a yeah, that was that was

845
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: a big part of what a what an institution.

846
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: I'm I am morbidly fascinated by the School of the

847
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 2: Americas and all the very very terrible.

848
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: Somebody needs to do a podcast thought it because it

849
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: is wild.

850
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah, there's I think they did a

851
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 2: there was a be Hide the Bastards episode about about

852
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 2: School of the America's in particular. That was that was

853
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 2: one of the things that gotta be like on some

854
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: research spiral about it, but.

855
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: Nice plug for our our podcast Cousins over that cool zone.

856
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,839
Speaker 1: But yeah, I say this to say that it's hard

857
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: for me to look at what's happening right now on

858
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 1: college campuses and also look at the conversation happening around

859
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 1: TikTok and not be really concerned. Like I, young people

860
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: especially need to be able to express themselves politically and

861
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: to have places where they can learn about their political

862
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: selves and like express that. I like, like I would

863
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: not be who I am today if I did not

864
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: have that space to figure it out and to figure

865
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: out what that looks like.

866
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also want to add because I think Bridget

867
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: I think we've had like very soamiliar experiences with this,

868
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 2: and I something that I know has come up and

869
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: I I'm not gonna say what this group is because

870
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 2: I don't want to give them any more attention. But

871
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 2: there is a group that targets and dockses students that

872
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: students and university faculty that do that support Palestine or

873
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: support or they have a very broad definition of what

874
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: being quote unquote anti Israel or in their words like

875
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 2: anti smatic is. I like literally had a Jewish history

876
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 2: professor who like called herself a Zionist, was a liberal

877
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 2: Zionist and was targeted by this group. But I know

878
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 2: this was something that this particular organization, Like I had

879
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 2: a couple of like older people in my life that

880
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: recently found out about them, just because of some like

881
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 2: you know, obviously they've been doing a lot of toxic lately.

882
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 2: But I remember having a conversation with my dad actually

883
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: about this, and he was like so shocked that this

884
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: was happening, and he was like, this is awful, Like

885
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 2: I can't believe that, like they're targeting students, And I

886
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, no, Like I have a lot of

887
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 2: friends that were docksed by them when we were like nineteen,

888
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 2: like we were like we were still teenagers.

889
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 3: Like that was and like I think, like you were saying,

890
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 3: like I think, you.

891
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 2: Know, obviously, I like I support the protesters. I'm standing

892
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: here and I agree with the protesters. Even if you don't,

893
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 2: you should be supporting people's like ability to use college

894
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: as an experience to like explore different political ideas and

895
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: realities and learn about there's always this big you know,

896
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 2: like the right loves to throw a fit over like oh,

897
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: like these like liberal campuses are in a bubble and

898
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: they don't know the real world. Like no, no, no, no, Actually,

899
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 2: the point of college a lot of times is to

900
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: meet people that have different experiences than you and to

901
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 2: like form these different and learn about these different ideas

902
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 2: and form these different ideas. And like, we should not

903
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 2: be at a place where simply trying to learn about.

904
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 3: Other issues or trying to learn about different perspectives.

905
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: Or whatever at Like, if that's what you're doing, we're

906
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 2: like advocating for causes you care about.

907
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 3: Like that should not be reason to be docked. Like

908
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:09,240
Speaker 3: before you could even.

909
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 2: Legally drink, Like that is that that that's not something

910
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: that should be happening.

911
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: Yes, And like I mean, like I we have a

912
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: I'm in the works on a whole episode about this.

913
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: This might be an unpopular opinion, but it is how

914
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: I feel having adults who might not even have a

915
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:35,439
Speaker 1: real connection to university campuses saying things like, oh, if

916
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: a college freshman says xyz thing that is supportive of Palestine,

917
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: we should put their name and their information on a

918
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: truck and drive it around their community and make sure

919
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: that nobody ever hires them for the rest of their life.

920
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: Who is that helping? Like, like, I think that it's

921
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: an environment that like the conversation around camp, the campus

922
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: protests that are happening right now, it's it's just really

923
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: scary to me. I guess I'll just put it that way.

924
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: It's really scary. I think none of this is new.

925
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: Is like a lot of what we're talking about. I

926
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 2: think that the advent of social media and the fact

927
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: that like they're obviously like as we're talking about, there

928
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 2: are a lot of positives and we're you know, having

929
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: this conversation to say that to the TikTok ban is

930
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: not going to be a good solution to all of

931
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: what's happening. Like, there are a lot of positive social media,

932
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 2: but I do think there is also a lot of

933
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,439
Speaker 2: negatives in the fact that because it is so much

934
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 2: more visible, the reaction is going to be so much

935
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: stronger and there is going to be and yeah, yeah,

936
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 2: and again I one hundred percent agree with you, and like,

937
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 2: like nobody a what these students are advocating for is

938
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: they're advocating for peace. They're advocating for like the bare minimum,

939
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 2: like stop the fucking violence. Like there's so many, so

940
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 2: many people who die. This is insane. And but regardless

941
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 2: of what is happening, regardless of what they're fucking protesting,

942
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 2: regardless of what is being spoken about, nobody should be yeah,

943
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: nobody should be docs.

944
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 3: Nobody should have.

945
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 2: Their life potentially ruined or like attempted to be ruined

946
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 2: because of something they said when they were nineteen or

947
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 2: twenty or whatever.

948
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: Exactly and folding it into the TikTok conversation. If young

949
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 1: people are not able to express themselves politically on their

950
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: college campuses, at college and then the digital spaces where

951
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: they would do that Twitter, you can't really do that

952
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: effectively right now if TikTok is banned. I just worry

953
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: that we are losing both irol and digitally places where people,

954
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: particularly young people are able to safely show up to

955
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: express their political beliefs, understand their political beliefs, refine and

956
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: sharpen their political beliefs. And that's not good. Like, I

957
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: really see these two things as related. The fact that

958
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: we have all of this suppression and crack down on

959
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: campus protest, while also the places and spaces where you

960
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: would digitally be able to show up and do that

961
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: are also being undermined. It just as I can't help

962
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: but see those two things that's happening together.

963
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.

964
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the voices that are

965
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: talking about this moment in time, I think are like

966
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: really leading with a lot of anxiety and sort of

967
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 1: like I don't want to say concern trolling, but like

968
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety around youth and social media, and

969
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: like youth are miserable, they're supporting Palestine because they're on

970
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 1: their phones, which are making them miserable. I just feel

971
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: like we're not having good substantive conversations rising to the

972
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: top about what's going on in this very particular moment

973
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:33,919
Speaker 1: in time.

974
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually off at that point.

975
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 2: Not to sound conspiratorial or whatever, but I think it's interesting.

976
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 2: There were a lot of like articles and stuff that

977
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 2: were coming out that I do think we're very valid.

978
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 2: I do think make a good point, but if they're

979
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 2: about this fact. But like, and again, as somebody who

980
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: is kind of like the beginning of gen Z, I

981
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 2: lived through a lot of this, but it was like

982
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 2: all of these young people are sort of beginning to,

983
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: you know, question whether having iPhones all the time, having

984
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: smartphones all the time is actually good for us or

985
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 2: like having like growing up with this access to the

986
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 2: Internet and social media from such a young age was

987
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 2: a good thing, Like maybe it was actually sort of harmful.

988
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 2: And now we're seeing this next generation go through it,

989
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: and you know, there are there are a lot of

990
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,959
Speaker 2: articles that we're coming out about, like here's this group

991
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 2: of like twenty something things that have decided to get

992
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 2: like Nokia.

993
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 1: Phones, and I've read like yeh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

994
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 2: Like all of that, and I don't, like, I think

995
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: that's great. I totally agree. And I will say, like again,

996
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 2: as somebody who spends a lot of time online and

997
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: a lot of time on the Internet, like I definitely I

998
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 2: need to detach a lot. I see a lot of

999
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 2: the negatives too, But at the same time, it's like

1000
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: I still believe, like and I mean, I get like

1001
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: this is a lot of the philosophy of the show

1002
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 2: is like the Internet is a thing that exists. It's

1003
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 2: the thing that it is a tool. It can be

1004
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 2: a tool for bad, awful things. It could also be

1005
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: a tool for organizing and activism and you know, changing

1006
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: the world to be a or trying to make the

1007
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 2: world a better place.

1008
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 3: Like it can be, and it also can be a

1009
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 3: place for community.

1010
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 2: It can be like I I've found a lot of

1011
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 2: community online spaces.

1012
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 3: I think, like.

1013
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 2: Just just inherently demonizing the idea like the Internet and

1014
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 2: social media and whatever part of that is what gets

1015
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 2: us to things like this, where then it's like, but

1016
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 2: then we can't even look at the fact that, no,

1017
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: like social media in this case, like again, if we're

1018
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 2: talking about like the protests happening for Palestine right now,

1019
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: social media has been a really really important tool for

1020
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 2: organizing and for getting information out there. It hasn't been

1021
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: the only thing that has been important. There are also

1022
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 2: like a lot of other you know, actions that need

1023
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: to be done and things that need to be done

1024
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 2: and whatever.

1025
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 3: But you know, like I'm not.

1026
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 2: Saying that just posting a bunch of graphics on your

1027
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: Instagram is like, you know, peak activism or whatever. But

1028
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 2: also it is like it has been a very important

1029
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 2: tool of getting information out there and getting and helping

1030
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: to organize these protests. And I think if we if

1031
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 2: we forget that, that's just gonna end up hurting all

1032
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,720
Speaker 2: of us. And I think that's kind of the direction

1033
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 2: we're going with this legislation. That's scary, and.

1034
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: I think it. It just adds to this feeling of

1035
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 1: just loss of faith in democracy and institutions. And I

1036
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: think that, like particularly right now, that like people are

1037
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 1: feeling so checked out from democracy that I just don't

1038
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: I don't.

1039
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 2: Think we need it.

1040
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: I don't think that people need any other reason to

1041
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,959
Speaker 1: be even more disengaged and checked out. The spear from

1042
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: Under the Desk news to we've had on the show

1043
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: before you could think of V. They're kind of like

1044
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: the Walter cronkinde of TikTok. They made it really yeah,

1045
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: like V is everywhere. V made a really interesting point

1046
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: they said, the consequence is not that TikTok gets banned,

1047
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: it's that the American public loses faith even more in

1048
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: the institution of government than they already have. And I

1049
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: think that really for me, like sums up how I

1050
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: think a lot of folks are feeling. Like I've seen

1051
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: people say things like, oh, they'll ban TikTok before they

1052
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: ban guns, or just like how weird it is to

1053
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: be having these conversations. It's like seeing conversations where it's

1054
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 1: like how close to death does someone who was pregnant

1055
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: have to be before their doctor kind of bort their

1056
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: non viable pregnancy. It just feels wrong when we have

1057
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 1: all of these other really huge issues happening to be like,

1058
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: oh and then they're gonna ban TikTok, like that's what

1059
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: they're doing. Like I could understand how somebody watching watching

1060
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: this moment in time is just like that's it. I

1061
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: have lost what faith I had in the institution of

1062
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: government because of this moment, Like I understand that the

1063
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: way that people are responding in this moment.

1064
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, like I said before, I think

1065
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 2: for all the hand ringing the Biden administration is doing

1066
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 2: right now or the Democratic Party is doing about like

1067
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: oh my god, like we're losing young people or not

1068
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 2: having young people engaging, or we're losing the sort of

1069
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 2: like loyalty quote unquote of like all these marginalized groups

1070
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 2: that you know, previously would have been a big part

1071
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 2: of our.

1072
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 3: Voter base.

1073
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,720
Speaker 2: For all the hand ringing and for all the complaining

1074
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: about that they're not doing anything to make to motivate

1075
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,399
Speaker 2: people to want to support them, and they're not doing

1076
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 2: anything to like actually show that, yeah, like that we

1077
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 2: live in a functioning democracy, Like this is a like

1078
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 2: this is very clearly a sign that that is, that

1079
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 2: is not what's happening.

1080
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 3: But this is not a.

1081
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: This this this is an example of democracy not functioning

1082
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,439
Speaker 2: the way that it is supposed to. And I think,

1083
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 2: like you can't be having that sort of like moral

1084
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 2: high ground or yeah, like handwringing about it if then

1085
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 2: you're not actually going to put in the work to

1086
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 2: to to make these systems work the way that you

1087
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 2: claim that they are supposed to work.

1088
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: Exactly, and then folding in the breakdown of these tools

1089
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: that have been used to allow people who are marginalized

1090
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: to build platforms and express themselves and build political power,

1091
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: you know, like if there's no TikTok and there's no

1092
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: real Twitter and meta is deprioritizing political and social issues

1093
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: kind d on their platforms, Where will we get the

1094
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: next Black Lives Matter? Where will we get the next

1095
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: meet to? How will we like build power and mobilize?

1096
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,919
Speaker 1: Like I am a person who believes that marginalized people

1097
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: will always find a way, Like we'll always make a

1098
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: way out of no way. That is what we do.

1099
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:17,919
Speaker 1: But I just don't want to get into this place

1100
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: where we have to keep rebuilding. We have to keep

1101
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: building new platforms. One platform goes poof, and so then

1102
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 1: we have to spend all of this energy and time,

1103
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: our resources that we know are not infinite, their finite,

1104
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: rebuilding and redoing this like it just after a while,

1105
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: it gets really tired and like people get burnt out,

1106
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: and I just think like, yeah, we're just in this

1107
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: very particular moment that I really see a lot of

1108
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: those a lot of those chickens coming home to roost.

1109
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 2: And this is why I think we need to revive

1110
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 2: Tumblr and we all need to go back to Tumblr

1111
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 2: and start using Tumblr again.

1112
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 3: But although that's not also not a very functional website.

1113
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: This is why there are no girls on the Internet.

1114
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: Community needs to band together and bye bye.

1115
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 3: TikTok exactly support go fund me.

1116
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll send the link around for folks to donate

1117
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll get a Google dot go. And I'm

1118
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: like your organizer friend who's like, as soon as the

1119
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: idea is floated, like I will circulate the Google dot

1120
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: so we'll get we'll get our content moderation policies together

1121
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: in that Google doc. Joey, thank you so much for

1122
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: being here. This was this was like when this news

1123
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,439
Speaker 1: came down, I was like, I cannot wait to find

1124
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:32,439
Speaker 1: out what joey things you're my like TikTok correspondent correspond Yeah,

1125
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Uh, where can folks keep

1126
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: off with you?

1127
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 2: You can find me on Twitter or Instagram at patnot prat.

1128
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 3: That's p A T t n O T p r

1129
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 3: A T T.

1130
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 2: I also want to give a shout out to if

1131
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: you like listening to there are no girls Leadernet or

1132
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 2: any other of our iHeartMedia podcast and you want to

1133
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 2: support the fantastic producer is that works super hard on

1134
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: those shows, you should check out the iHeart Podcast Union socials.

1135
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter and hopefully by the

1136
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 2: time this episode drops, also on Instagram at iHeart Pod Union.

1137
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 2: That's yeah, iHeart Pod Union. Hopefully you can find it.

1138
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 1: You'll figure it out.

1139
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 3: Figure it out, You'll figure it out.

1140
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna tell you guys my TikTok, but if

1141
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 2: you find it, come say hi. I don't know, it's

1142
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 2: a lot of me like talking about like whatever piece

1143
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 2: of media I've hyper fixated on for like a couple

1144
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 2: of month span, So I don't know if you want

1145
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 2: to Yeah, right now, it's been like DC comics.

1146
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 3: So if anybody is interested.

1147
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: You're welcome to try to find that, but I will

1148
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 2: not be telling you what my user name is.

1149
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: I could see you having a podcast that's just called

1150
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: like Joey's recent hyper fixationss Siperfixations.

1151
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 2: I I heard if you want to green light that, right,

1152
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 2: let's make it happen.

1153
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 3: I feel like that's when I, oh, yeah, and then

1154
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 3: I will that. That's kind of been my repertoire. And

1155
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 3: on Stuff Mom Never told You.

1156
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 2: Another show that I am occasionally on has usually been Hey,

1157
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 2: there's this thing that I just like, have been obsessed

1158
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 2: with lately, can I come talk about it? But I

1159
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 2: will be having a good episode coming up, coming out

1160
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 2: on Sminty or on stuff Mom Never told you soon

1161
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 2: about the Swifties and some of the the darker side

1162
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 2: of online fandom. Uh, don't have a set date for that,

1163
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: but I will update you guys when I do.

1164
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: I can out wait. You'll be here when that episode drops.

1165
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: You will, we'll you'll, we'll be discussing it.

1166
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 3: I have a whole like conversation about this. We didn't

1167
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 3: do like a round table.

1168
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: I was, yeah, like a swifty round table, A swifty

1169
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: round table. I feel like I like I'm not. I'm

1170
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: not a Swifty. I I mean, you know this about me.

1171
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: I've gone from like not loving Taylor Swift to being like, oh,

1172
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: actually I'm neutral on her, to now being like I

1173
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: don't know anything about her music, but like, I would

1174
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: like to be a Smifty and include me in your community. People.

1175
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 2: My thoughts on Taylor Swift are. I love her music.

1176
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 2: I grew up listening to her music. She has been

1177
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 2: one of my top artists on Spotify for like forever.

1178
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 2: The fandom concerns me a lot, but I do think

1179
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 2: she herself. I understand a lot of the criticism and

1180
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 2: I support I don't. I think there's a lot of

1181
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 2: her is a figure, is an interesting person. I try

1182
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 2: to keep her separate from the music. That that's my

1183
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 2: keeping the art separate from the artist. I think situation

1184
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 2: is Taylor Swift. But yeah, I don't know if then

1185
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 2: the latest thing is a bunch of Swifties are mad

1186
01:02:58,000 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 2: at me because I said that one of the lines

1187
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 2: and one for most recent songs sounded kind of dumb

1188
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 2: and I apparently don't understand how metaphors work. The consensus

1189
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 2: in the comments section, but.

1190
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's a great teaser for swifty convos to come. Joey,

1191
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: thank you for being here.

1192
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 3: Of course, thanks for having me, Bridget.

1193
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: And thanks to all of you for listening. I will

1194
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: see you on the Internet. If you're looking for ways

1195
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 1: to support the show, check out our mark store at

1196
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: tangodi dot com slash store. Got a story about an

1197
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi,

1198
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: You can reach us at Hello at tangody dot com.

1199
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengody

1200
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was

1201
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: created by Me Bridget Toad. It's a production of iHeartRadio

1202
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: and Unbossed Creative edited by Joey pat Jonathan Strickland is

1203
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

1204
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: Michael Almada is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Toad.

1205
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:00,959
Speaker 1: If you want to help us, row, rate and review

1206
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check

1207
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1208
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 1: your podcasts.