1 00:00:21,244 --> 00:00:24,605 Speaker 1: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you 2 00:00:24,645 --> 00:00:27,605 Speaker 1: can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in 3 00:00:27,685 --> 00:00:31,365 Speaker 1: just two visits. See any standard two D movie anytime 4 00:00:31,725 --> 00:00:34,845 Speaker 1: with no blackoutdates or restrictions. Sign up now on the 5 00:00:34,885 --> 00:00:37,284 Speaker 1: Regal app or at the link in our description and 6 00:00:37,445 --> 00:00:41,685 Speaker 1: use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen percent off. 7 00:00:42,125 --> 00:00:45,125 Speaker 2: We're gonna keep things going, Josh with these archive drops, 8 00:00:45,125 --> 00:00:49,845 Speaker 2: our four week series leading up to the Oscars, all 9 00:00:50,405 --> 00:00:55,525 Speaker 2: conversations about Best Picture winners. This week it is the 10 00:00:55,565 --> 00:00:58,925 Speaker 2: Silence of the Lambs, released thirty five years ago. We 11 00:00:59,005 --> 00:01:03,405 Speaker 2: talked about it five years ago for its thirtieth anniversary. 12 00:01:03,005 --> 00:01:05,885 Speaker 3: Five years ago. I have no memory of this, Adam. 13 00:01:06,005 --> 00:01:08,404 Speaker 3: This is what I love about our archive drops. Right 14 00:01:08,845 --> 00:01:12,645 Speaker 3: is refreshed. Do you think? Do you think we both 15 00:01:12,765 --> 00:01:13,524 Speaker 3: liked it? Still? 16 00:01:13,685 --> 00:01:16,444 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure we both liked it. But that's all 17 00:01:16,485 --> 00:01:20,524 Speaker 2: I remember as well. Okay, we can all be surprised. 18 00:01:21,045 --> 00:01:23,684 Speaker 2: Cue it up, listen find out what we had to say, 19 00:01:23,765 --> 00:01:26,605 Speaker 2: even if you listen to it back in twenty twenty one. 20 00:01:26,884 --> 00:01:30,164 Speaker 2: February twenty twenty one, to be exact, here's that conversation. 21 00:01:30,324 --> 00:01:32,044 Speaker 2: Our review of the silence of the. 22 00:01:32,084 --> 00:01:35,005 Speaker 4: Lambs, Oh, agent Starling, you think you can sect me 23 00:01:35,084 --> 00:01:36,444 Speaker 4: with this blond little tool. 24 00:01:37,925 --> 00:01:41,164 Speaker 5: No I thought that your knowledge. 25 00:01:40,964 --> 00:01:44,044 Speaker 4: Are so ambitious? Sons, you do you know what you 26 00:01:44,084 --> 00:01:44,645 Speaker 4: look like to me? 27 00:01:44,725 --> 00:01:46,885 Speaker 6: With your good deck and your cheap shoes. 28 00:01:47,365 --> 00:01:51,125 Speaker 4: You look like a robe, a well scrubbed hustling, a 29 00:01:51,245 --> 00:01:55,605 Speaker 4: robe with a little taste. Good nutrition has given you 30 00:01:55,645 --> 00:01:57,885 Speaker 4: some length of bone that you're not more than one 31 00:01:57,965 --> 00:02:00,124 Speaker 4: generation from poor white trash? 32 00:02:00,325 --> 00:02:01,565 Speaker 6: Are you, agent Styling? 33 00:02:02,285 --> 00:02:04,965 Speaker 4: And that accent you've tried so desperately. 34 00:02:04,485 --> 00:02:07,285 Speaker 6: To shed pure West Virginia? 35 00:02:07,445 --> 00:02:08,325 Speaker 4: What is your father do? 36 00:02:08,485 --> 00:02:12,125 Speaker 6: Is your call? Miner does a stinkable lamb? You know 37 00:02:12,325 --> 00:02:16,045 Speaker 6: how quickly the boys found you, all those tedious, sticky 38 00:02:16,165 --> 00:02:19,165 Speaker 6: fumblings in the backseats of cars, while you could only 39 00:02:19,205 --> 00:02:23,245 Speaker 6: dream of getting out anywhere, getting all the way to 40 00:02:23,325 --> 00:02:23,725 Speaker 6: the end. 41 00:02:26,765 --> 00:02:31,445 Speaker 2: Hello, Joshua, Oh boy, you know what you look like 42 00:02:31,605 --> 00:02:35,925 Speaker 2: to me? With your fancy socks and brightly colored pants. 43 00:02:36,565 --> 00:02:40,605 Speaker 2: You look like a critic, A well read, hustling critic 44 00:02:41,204 --> 00:02:44,845 Speaker 2: with a little taste. Good watching has given you some 45 00:02:45,085 --> 00:02:46,405 Speaker 2: length of perspective. 46 00:02:47,085 --> 00:02:48,645 Speaker 1: But you're not more. 47 00:02:48,484 --> 00:02:52,845 Speaker 2: Than one generation from the three Stooges, are you? Joshua? 48 00:02:53,725 --> 00:02:58,125 Speaker 2: And that accent you've tried so desperately to shed pure 49 00:02:58,405 --> 00:03:03,764 Speaker 2: south suburban Chicago. What is your father? Is he a cop? 50 00:03:04,285 --> 00:03:08,205 Speaker 2: Does he stink of gun oil? You know how quickly 51 00:03:08,245 --> 00:03:11,285 Speaker 2: Debbie found you all those dates to the movie theater 52 00:03:11,525 --> 00:03:14,725 Speaker 2: while you could only dream of getting out, getting anywhere, 53 00:03:15,165 --> 00:03:19,605 Speaker 2: getting all the way to the Chicago Sun Times. One 54 00:03:19,644 --> 00:03:24,325 Speaker 2: of those dates was on Valentine's Day nineteen ninety one, 55 00:03:24,484 --> 00:03:27,124 Speaker 2: you took your girl to see the hot new Jonathan 56 00:03:27,165 --> 00:03:31,725 Speaker 2: Demi movie. Everyone was so titillated by your parents, who 57 00:03:31,764 --> 00:03:36,045 Speaker 2: saw it first, found it so lurid, so depraved. They 58 00:03:36,125 --> 00:03:41,925 Speaker 2: precluded you from entering. But you lied. You disobeyed, didn't you, 59 00:03:42,805 --> 00:03:46,685 Speaker 2: And you've disobeyed again in preparation for this Sacred Cow review. 60 00:03:47,045 --> 00:03:51,245 Speaker 2: Sacred Cow, by the way, very tasty. I recommend eating 61 00:03:51,285 --> 00:03:56,685 Speaker 2: it with some fava beans, and only fava beans. 62 00:03:57,485 --> 00:03:58,325 Speaker 3: You still wake. 63 00:03:58,245 --> 00:04:01,165 Speaker 2: Up sometimes, don't you. You wake up in the dark 64 00:04:01,445 --> 00:04:04,925 Speaker 2: and hear your parents warning. Now that you've rewatched it 65 00:04:05,005 --> 00:04:07,965 Speaker 2: with adult eyes, tell me what do you think it 66 00:04:08,085 --> 00:04:11,325 Speaker 2: was about the silence of the lambs that so unnerved 67 00:04:11,325 --> 00:04:11,925 Speaker 2: your parents? 68 00:04:12,685 --> 00:04:13,365 Speaker 1: Were they right? 69 00:04:14,325 --> 00:04:18,045 Speaker 2: Do the thrilling performances from Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins 70 00:04:18,325 --> 00:04:22,245 Speaker 2: and those Demi close ups lens by ten Fujimoto where 71 00:04:22,285 --> 00:04:26,445 Speaker 2: the characters seem to be burrowing deep into your restless soul, 72 00:04:27,485 --> 00:04:31,365 Speaker 2: conveniently disguised what is really just dressed up shlock. 73 00:04:34,405 --> 00:04:43,844 Speaker 3: I'm undone, I'm unraveled scene psychologically, I'm now naked before you. Yes, yes, 74 00:04:43,885 --> 00:04:47,925 Speaker 3: the silence of the parents. So if only, if only 75 00:04:48,045 --> 00:04:51,485 Speaker 3: I could ever have achieved that, I would have grown 76 00:04:51,565 --> 00:04:56,844 Speaker 3: to be a healthy adult. Really, critics critics were colored pants. 77 00:04:56,925 --> 00:04:59,165 Speaker 3: I didn't know that was as well. The one I'm 78 00:04:59,205 --> 00:05:05,245 Speaker 3: looking at does well done, sir, Oh my goodness, where 79 00:05:05,245 --> 00:05:08,685 Speaker 3: to start? I don't I still don't know what it 80 00:05:08,844 --> 00:05:11,844 Speaker 3: was they have objected to. I mean, take your pick. 81 00:05:12,284 --> 00:05:16,845 Speaker 3: When I rewatch this movie, it is so much grizzlier 82 00:05:18,125 --> 00:05:20,645 Speaker 3: that I that I remembered. For one thing, it starts 83 00:05:20,645 --> 00:05:23,285 Speaker 3: when we're in Crawford's office. It puts it right there 84 00:05:23,284 --> 00:05:25,365 Speaker 3: in your face. At the beginning, we see his evidence 85 00:05:25,404 --> 00:05:29,765 Speaker 3: photos of Buffalo Bill's victims, and you kind of know, 86 00:05:29,925 --> 00:05:35,325 Speaker 3: like we're not gonna though. It became a Oscar obviously, 87 00:05:35,485 --> 00:05:37,924 Speaker 3: you know, Oscar contender and winner and sort of a 88 00:05:38,085 --> 00:05:41,045 Speaker 3: It became a prestige picture but for sure the movie 89 00:05:41,045 --> 00:05:43,525 Speaker 3: itself is going to tell you right away that doesn't 90 00:05:43,565 --> 00:05:48,445 Speaker 3: mean this is not a grizzly serial killer thriller. So 91 00:05:48,565 --> 00:05:51,685 Speaker 3: it could have been that, it could have been. I 92 00:05:51,685 --> 00:05:54,645 Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, really, it's there's a lot in 93 00:05:54,685 --> 00:05:58,205 Speaker 3: here that you could understand why they say maybe go 94 00:05:58,205 --> 00:06:01,525 Speaker 3: go find yourselves a romantic comedy for this date you 95 00:06:01,565 --> 00:06:07,205 Speaker 3: two kids. But you know, I've been revisiting it probably 96 00:06:07,245 --> 00:06:10,645 Speaker 3: at least once since then before we did for this show. 97 00:06:11,325 --> 00:06:14,165 Speaker 3: You do understand. I think you do understand the elements 98 00:06:14,205 --> 00:06:18,845 Speaker 3: that elevate it beyond the normal serial killer thrillers that 99 00:06:19,284 --> 00:06:21,684 Speaker 3: we would get to the point of winning all those Oscars. 100 00:06:21,685 --> 00:06:23,925 Speaker 3: And I think for Oscar voters, right, it was the acting. 101 00:06:24,005 --> 00:06:26,245 Speaker 3: I think that was kind of the thing they could 102 00:06:26,245 --> 00:06:29,964 Speaker 3: point to and say, we don't always get acting like 103 00:06:30,045 --> 00:06:35,565 Speaker 3: this in genre pieces, genre material like this. And at 104 00:06:35,565 --> 00:06:38,765 Speaker 3: the same time, it's very well crafted. I mean, this 105 00:06:38,885 --> 00:06:42,485 Speaker 3: is an astonishingly crafted film, and in the ways you've 106 00:06:42,485 --> 00:06:46,724 Speaker 3: talked about already, with the cinematography and the editing too. 107 00:06:46,805 --> 00:06:50,285 Speaker 3: I believe the editing was nominated for an Oscar and 108 00:06:50,565 --> 00:06:53,805 Speaker 3: you know, but for me, it's the one thing you 109 00:06:53,844 --> 00:06:57,445 Speaker 3: touched on that does ultimately elevate the signs of the Lambs, 110 00:06:57,485 --> 00:07:00,725 Speaker 3: and it is that DEMI touch It is that the 111 00:07:01,365 --> 00:07:06,364 Speaker 3: searching for the humanity and inhumane material. He seemed like 112 00:07:06,605 --> 00:07:10,325 Speaker 3: a poor match for this material at the time, and 113 00:07:10,365 --> 00:07:13,325 Speaker 3: even in retrospect, even looking at his filmography, it still 114 00:07:13,405 --> 00:07:18,364 Speaker 3: stands out. And I think what he does is bring 115 00:07:19,645 --> 00:07:23,365 Speaker 3: an emphasis on the people on the screen and their 116 00:07:24,085 --> 00:07:28,525 Speaker 3: emotional the emotional registers that they're experiencing. And let me 117 00:07:28,565 --> 00:07:30,205 Speaker 3: give you just kind of a throwaway scene that I 118 00:07:30,245 --> 00:07:33,125 Speaker 3: think is actually a defining example of this. It's when 119 00:07:33,805 --> 00:07:37,405 Speaker 3: Starling and Crawford go to the funeral of one of 120 00:07:37,525 --> 00:07:41,645 Speaker 3: Buffalo Bill's victims yea, and Crawford, you know, does one 121 00:07:41,645 --> 00:07:45,765 Speaker 3: of these chauvinistic power plays and tell Starling to wait. 122 00:07:45,805 --> 00:07:49,405 Speaker 3: He's going to go talk to the men, you know, 123 00:07:49,605 --> 00:07:51,965 Speaker 3: the cops there, and they're going to talk this out. 124 00:07:52,125 --> 00:07:54,285 Speaker 2: He says later it was a smoke screen. He does, 125 00:07:54,365 --> 00:07:55,445 Speaker 2: doing it for effect. 126 00:07:55,165 --> 00:07:56,965 Speaker 3: He does. And that's and one of the great sort 127 00:07:57,005 --> 00:07:59,285 Speaker 3: of I don't know if you could call it feminist, 128 00:07:59,365 --> 00:08:02,845 Speaker 3: but again humanist moments is when Clarice responds to him 129 00:08:02,845 --> 00:08:05,565 Speaker 3: and says, but it matters, you know, it matters that 130 00:08:05,645 --> 00:08:08,485 Speaker 3: you acted that way in front of those men. I 131 00:08:08,525 --> 00:08:11,445 Speaker 3: love that little exchange. But when he leaves her there 132 00:08:11,445 --> 00:08:15,165 Speaker 3: in this funeral parlor, she steps forward to a door 133 00:08:15,205 --> 00:08:18,085 Speaker 3: and kind of peers through and sees the young woman's 134 00:08:18,125 --> 00:08:21,565 Speaker 3: grieving family, and she spends a few minutes just watch them. Now, 135 00:08:21,565 --> 00:08:24,125 Speaker 3: she's observing for as part of her job right as 136 00:08:24,365 --> 00:08:28,085 Speaker 3: collecting clues, but she's also connecting with the pain. And 137 00:08:28,125 --> 00:08:29,965 Speaker 3: I think you see that later when she's in another 138 00:08:30,045 --> 00:08:33,045 Speaker 3: victim's bedroom. She's taking clues, but she's connecting with the 139 00:08:33,045 --> 00:08:37,885 Speaker 3: pain too. And at that point, Demi's camera is Clarice's 140 00:08:37,925 --> 00:08:41,085 Speaker 3: point of view. It's looking for the humanity in that moment. 141 00:08:42,045 --> 00:08:44,765 Speaker 3: Again a throwaway thing, but a throwaway moment. But I 142 00:08:44,765 --> 00:08:48,325 Speaker 3: think you get that sensibility in so much of the movie. 143 00:08:48,365 --> 00:08:50,684 Speaker 3: Often it is in those close ups, those Demi close ups, 144 00:08:50,685 --> 00:08:53,845 Speaker 3: which are given to Crawford, they're given to Lecter even 145 00:08:54,205 --> 00:08:58,085 Speaker 3: in moments, and they're mostly given to Starling, so that 146 00:08:58,684 --> 00:09:02,485 Speaker 3: we understand the again, the emotional experience she's going through. 147 00:09:02,925 --> 00:09:05,525 Speaker 3: Where we get that in some you know, not genre 148 00:09:05,525 --> 00:09:08,205 Speaker 3: pictures aren't always devoid of that, but it is very 149 00:09:08,285 --> 00:09:10,085 Speaker 3: much at the forefront in the Silence of the Lamps. 150 00:09:10,085 --> 00:09:13,245 Speaker 3: For me in this revisit, that was the thing that 151 00:09:13,365 --> 00:09:14,325 Speaker 3: probably stood out to me. 152 00:09:14,725 --> 00:09:18,165 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's a great point about Demi's humanity and 153 00:09:18,205 --> 00:09:21,605 Speaker 2: how we see it displayed on screen. I will go 154 00:09:21,684 --> 00:09:23,845 Speaker 2: back and say that if the Silence of the Lambs 155 00:09:23,925 --> 00:09:27,204 Speaker 2: is indeed shlock, And like you, I had forgotten just 156 00:09:27,245 --> 00:09:30,364 Speaker 2: how grisly it was. I forgot how kind of absurd 157 00:09:30,804 --> 00:09:33,005 Speaker 2: it all is, and the register that it's kind of 158 00:09:33,045 --> 00:09:36,285 Speaker 2: played at. But you know what, it's well made, really 159 00:09:36,605 --> 00:09:40,365 Speaker 2: effective schlock, where even now thirty years later, and I 160 00:09:40,445 --> 00:09:44,444 Speaker 2: watched it with my daughter Sophie, who is sixteen, and 161 00:09:44,645 --> 00:09:47,365 Speaker 2: we were both sitting in a heightened state of anxiety 162 00:09:47,564 --> 00:09:50,885 Speaker 2: virtually from start to finish. And I will get into 163 00:09:50,885 --> 00:09:53,485 Speaker 2: a little bit more detail here in a moment about 164 00:09:53,605 --> 00:09:55,725 Speaker 2: the start of this film, because I think even the 165 00:09:55,925 --> 00:10:00,245 Speaker 2: very beginning plays into it. Obviously, it applies as we 166 00:10:00,325 --> 00:10:03,485 Speaker 2: really get into the plot and we meet Lecter and 167 00:10:03,525 --> 00:10:06,605 Speaker 2: we never fully feel safe with him, even trapped behind 168 00:10:06,605 --> 00:10:10,405 Speaker 2: the glass or strapped in however tightly he might be. 169 00:10:11,245 --> 00:10:14,525 Speaker 2: Those exchanges with Clarice that are unnerving, and then when 170 00:10:14,804 --> 00:10:18,085 Speaker 2: we actually do see him inventively killing people and escaping 171 00:10:18,085 --> 00:10:20,525 Speaker 2: and all the Buffalo bill stuff, especially of course at 172 00:10:20,564 --> 00:10:24,405 Speaker 2: the end. Yes, you are tense throughout, but the big 173 00:10:24,445 --> 00:10:27,324 Speaker 2: discovery for me here, and I think it ties back 174 00:10:27,365 --> 00:10:29,725 Speaker 2: to what you're saying in terms of it being about 175 00:10:29,804 --> 00:10:33,085 Speaker 2: the people and it being about their humanity. I knew, 176 00:10:33,285 --> 00:10:37,405 Speaker 2: or I remembered, that Lecter toyed with Clarice not just 177 00:10:37,485 --> 00:10:41,485 Speaker 2: as a trainee but as a younger woman, an attractive woman, 178 00:10:42,205 --> 00:10:45,445 Speaker 2: but I had no sense of how baked into every 179 00:10:45,525 --> 00:10:50,005 Speaker 2: frame of the movie Clarice's awareness of her femininity is 180 00:10:50,165 --> 00:10:52,804 Speaker 2: and the trigger that causes and maybe I should actually 181 00:10:52,845 --> 00:10:56,685 Speaker 2: reverse it, the awareness of the effect her femininity has 182 00:10:57,005 --> 00:11:00,885 Speaker 2: on every man she meets. And that scene you mentioned 183 00:11:01,085 --> 00:11:04,565 Speaker 2: with the cops at the funeral parlor might be the 184 00:11:04,605 --> 00:11:07,925 Speaker 2: most kind of hilarious display of that right in a 185 00:11:07,965 --> 00:11:12,165 Speaker 2: couple instances, one that moment with Jack where she is 186 00:11:12,205 --> 00:11:16,045 Speaker 2: put in the awkward position of being sort of put 187 00:11:16,045 --> 00:11:18,765 Speaker 2: off to the side and marginalized because she's a woman, 188 00:11:19,005 --> 00:11:22,845 Speaker 2: but also when all of the eyes turned to her 189 00:11:23,205 --> 00:11:25,205 Speaker 2: in one scene, and we'll talk more about that, because 190 00:11:25,245 --> 00:11:28,845 Speaker 2: that's maybe the most common effect we see here in 191 00:11:28,845 --> 00:11:31,165 Speaker 2: the film. The way Demi uses the camera to train 192 00:11:31,285 --> 00:11:35,125 Speaker 2: it on Clarice in particular, but every one of those cops, 193 00:11:35,165 --> 00:11:37,804 Speaker 2: kind of almost in unison, turns and looks at her, like, 194 00:11:37,925 --> 00:11:39,965 Speaker 2: what are you doing here? You don't belong here. And 195 00:11:40,005 --> 00:11:46,205 Speaker 2: then later the thrill, the anxious thrill of her banishing 196 00:11:46,245 --> 00:11:49,165 Speaker 2: them all from the room, her getting her revenge, if 197 00:11:49,205 --> 00:11:51,205 Speaker 2: you will, even though that's not really what is on 198 00:11:51,285 --> 00:11:54,005 Speaker 2: her mind. And you can see how kind of tenuous 199 00:11:54,045 --> 00:11:55,685 Speaker 2: the whole thing is and how shaky she is, but 200 00:11:55,885 --> 00:11:57,964 Speaker 2: she still asserts herself and says, you know what, all 201 00:11:57,965 --> 00:12:00,725 Speaker 2: of you men, get out of here. We've got it 202 00:12:00,765 --> 00:12:03,125 Speaker 2: from here. But I go back to the very beginning 203 00:12:03,125 --> 00:12:06,005 Speaker 2: of this movie, and I was struck by the choice 204 00:12:06,445 --> 00:12:10,765 Speaker 2: to show Clarice running through the woods. If you've seen 205 00:12:10,804 --> 00:12:14,085 Speaker 2: the movie, you know that she's an FBI agent. You 206 00:12:14,125 --> 00:12:16,565 Speaker 2: know that she's young, and she may be a little naive, 207 00:12:16,605 --> 00:12:19,845 Speaker 2: but she is very smart, and she is well trained, 208 00:12:19,845 --> 00:12:22,485 Speaker 2: and she can take care of herself, and you're not 209 00:12:22,525 --> 00:12:26,325 Speaker 2: really fearful for her. But I tried to detach myself 210 00:12:26,325 --> 00:12:27,925 Speaker 2: for a second, Josh and pretend that I was just 211 00:12:28,005 --> 00:12:31,005 Speaker 2: watching it for the first time, and it almost felt 212 00:12:31,005 --> 00:12:33,085 Speaker 2: that way because I didn't remember this scene at all. 213 00:12:33,165 --> 00:12:35,325 Speaker 2: It could be kind of a throwaway scene, but it's 214 00:12:35,405 --> 00:12:38,965 Speaker 2: just her for at least a minute or two, running 215 00:12:39,005 --> 00:12:41,245 Speaker 2: through the woods, and I don't think you can see 216 00:12:41,285 --> 00:12:44,565 Speaker 2: the FBI logo really on the shirt or the sweatshirt 217 00:12:44,645 --> 00:12:47,485 Speaker 2: she's wearing, so you don't know anything about her, and 218 00:12:48,125 --> 00:12:51,165 Speaker 2: you almost get the sense that maybe she's being chased, 219 00:12:51,405 --> 00:12:53,645 Speaker 2: or maybe as a woman alone in the woods, she's 220 00:12:53,684 --> 00:12:55,564 Speaker 2: in some kind of danger. And I swear to you, 221 00:12:55,885 --> 00:12:58,685 Speaker 2: as soon as I was thinking all of this, Sophie 222 00:12:58,725 --> 00:13:01,964 Speaker 2: sitting next to me, goes, oh, she's going to get kidnapped, 223 00:13:03,205 --> 00:13:05,885 Speaker 2: that's what she thought. She immediately went to, oh, this 224 00:13:05,965 --> 00:13:08,405 Speaker 2: is a damsel in distress. And I think Demi there 225 00:13:08,525 --> 00:13:10,845 Speaker 2: signals to us that I'm going to play with this 226 00:13:10,925 --> 00:13:14,685 Speaker 2: throughout the entire movie, including the way that scene ultimately ends, 227 00:13:14,684 --> 00:13:17,925 Speaker 2: where a man, a single man, an imposing man, does 228 00:13:17,965 --> 00:13:19,725 Speaker 2: show up, but it turns out, of course he's really 229 00:13:19,725 --> 00:13:21,605 Speaker 2: no threat to her. But even the way it kind 230 00:13:21,605 --> 00:13:25,685 Speaker 2: of does close as she goes off to meet with 231 00:13:25,885 --> 00:13:28,845 Speaker 2: Jack Crawford, the man kind of ominously stares at her 232 00:13:29,485 --> 00:13:31,565 Speaker 2: as if he might be thinking, what were you doing 233 00:13:31,564 --> 00:13:34,685 Speaker 2: out here all by yourself? Girl? So it's even there 234 00:13:35,285 --> 00:13:38,245 Speaker 2: in those interactions, even though nothing is being verbalized at 235 00:13:38,285 --> 00:13:41,405 Speaker 2: all along those lines, And then of course the wonderful, 236 00:13:41,605 --> 00:13:44,965 Speaker 2: hilarious moment we get I don't remember if it's right then, Joshua, 237 00:13:44,965 --> 00:13:47,005 Speaker 2: if it's later in the film, but doesn't she get 238 00:13:47,045 --> 00:13:49,005 Speaker 2: into an elevator, and I felt like I was watching 239 00:13:49,005 --> 00:13:51,205 Speaker 2: the beginning of promising Young Woman again, where it's just 240 00:13:51,245 --> 00:13:54,405 Speaker 2: like dudes in polos and khakis and she's the only 241 00:13:54,445 --> 00:13:59,845 Speaker 2: woman crowded into that elevator, and the way throughout every 242 00:14:00,085 --> 00:14:03,645 Speaker 2: guy she meets, from the obnoxious chiltin to the bug guy, 243 00:14:03,885 --> 00:14:07,405 Speaker 2: the bug expert, everyone is either hitting on her or 244 00:14:07,525 --> 00:14:11,684 Speaker 2: eyeing her, or not trusting her or not trusting her 245 00:14:11,684 --> 00:14:16,005 Speaker 2: capabilities because she's a woman, because she's a young woman, 246 00:14:16,085 --> 00:14:19,605 Speaker 2: sometimes because they perceive her as an attractive woman, and 247 00:14:20,045 --> 00:14:23,285 Speaker 2: that she has to reckon with that in every single 248 00:14:23,405 --> 00:14:27,205 Speaker 2: moment of her day, in addition to trying to find 249 00:14:27,685 --> 00:14:29,965 Speaker 2: the killer to do her job. One of the elements, 250 00:14:30,045 --> 00:14:34,005 Speaker 2: yeah that Johnathan Demi obviously chose to emphasize. Maybe it's 251 00:14:34,045 --> 00:14:37,845 Speaker 2: there in the book. It probably is, but visually Demi 252 00:14:38,085 --> 00:14:39,605 Speaker 2: decided to make that a focal point. 253 00:14:39,925 --> 00:14:41,805 Speaker 3: Crawford's very clever. Isn't he using you? 254 00:14:42,885 --> 00:14:46,085 Speaker 5: What do you mean, sir, pretty young woman to turn 255 00:14:46,165 --> 00:14:46,445 Speaker 5: him on? 256 00:14:47,645 --> 00:14:49,485 Speaker 2: I don't believe Lector has even seen a woman in 257 00:14:49,525 --> 00:14:50,605 Speaker 2: eight years. 258 00:14:50,645 --> 00:14:52,244 Speaker 5: Oh are you ever his taste? 259 00:14:53,045 --> 00:14:53,685 Speaker 4: So to speak? 260 00:14:54,485 --> 00:14:56,205 Speaker 5: I graduated from VA doctor. 261 00:14:56,245 --> 00:14:57,525 Speaker 4: It is not a charm school. 262 00:14:57,725 --> 00:15:00,165 Speaker 1: Good then you should be able to remember the rules. 263 00:15:00,885 --> 00:15:03,005 Speaker 3: I would be really curious to hear if that is 264 00:15:03,045 --> 00:15:06,085 Speaker 3: in the Thomas Harris novel the elevator shot that's at 265 00:15:06,165 --> 00:15:09,325 Speaker 3: FBI headquarters. So yeah, she's in the elevator with all 266 00:15:09,365 --> 00:15:12,365 Speaker 3: these burly agents who are wearing I think running gear 267 00:15:12,365 --> 00:15:15,765 Speaker 3: as well. And the opening running scene is absolutely a 268 00:15:15,805 --> 00:15:17,485 Speaker 3: red herring. This is a movie that has a couple 269 00:15:17,525 --> 00:15:20,365 Speaker 3: of very crucial red herrings in it, and so it 270 00:15:20,365 --> 00:15:23,085 Speaker 3: makes sense that it would start with one. I think 271 00:15:23,125 --> 00:15:26,805 Speaker 3: Foster's performance is key to this lens to watch the 272 00:15:26,845 --> 00:15:31,325 Speaker 3: film through as well, because she is starling is She's 273 00:15:31,365 --> 00:15:33,445 Speaker 3: got these killers on one side of her that she's 274 00:15:33,485 --> 00:15:37,005 Speaker 3: trying to deal with, manage or catch, and then she 275 00:15:37,045 --> 00:15:41,045 Speaker 3: has these chauvinists colleagues on the other side and she 276 00:15:41,525 --> 00:15:43,405 Speaker 3: is and so the camera is there to kind of 277 00:15:43,965 --> 00:15:47,405 Speaker 3: reclaim the dignity, reclaim dignity for her and then Foster's 278 00:15:47,445 --> 00:15:51,925 Speaker 3: performance is to project that that at least Clarice's has 279 00:15:52,005 --> 00:15:54,725 Speaker 3: this firm sense of self that I think she does 280 00:15:54,765 --> 00:15:57,165 Speaker 3: communicate all the time. I mean, Foster I think of 281 00:15:57,205 --> 00:16:00,165 Speaker 3: as just, you know, an actor of extreme intelligence. That's 282 00:16:00,205 --> 00:16:03,325 Speaker 3: what she seems to communicate first and foremost. It's a 283 00:16:03,445 --> 00:16:07,365 Speaker 3: natural role for her here. You know, this recruit that's 284 00:16:07,445 --> 00:16:10,885 Speaker 3: kind of rising quickly in the ranks, and you could 285 00:16:10,925 --> 00:16:14,405 Speaker 3: see her mind is racing in every scene behind those eyes, 286 00:16:14,445 --> 00:16:17,165 Speaker 3: her mind is racing. It's when she's being challenged by Lecter, 287 00:16:17,565 --> 00:16:19,845 Speaker 3: but it's also, as you said, when she's negotiating the 288 00:16:19,845 --> 00:16:23,325 Speaker 3: sexism and the skepticisms I'm surrounding her. She's juggling that 289 00:16:23,405 --> 00:16:26,085 Speaker 3: without losing sight of the case as facts. So I 290 00:16:26,125 --> 00:16:29,205 Speaker 3: think it's a really nice balancing act that Foster gives 291 00:16:29,245 --> 00:16:32,805 Speaker 3: because you get her resilience. But then in that defining 292 00:16:32,925 --> 00:16:35,765 Speaker 3: scene where she shares the memory that the movie gets 293 00:16:35,805 --> 00:16:38,885 Speaker 3: its title from, you also see her fragility and you 294 00:16:38,925 --> 00:16:42,405 Speaker 3: see how this extreme competence is this bulwark that she's 295 00:16:42,445 --> 00:16:45,565 Speaker 3: built up against the trauma of her past. So yeah, 296 00:16:45,925 --> 00:16:50,125 Speaker 3: it's an incredible performance that is having to balance both 297 00:16:50,125 --> 00:16:50,725 Speaker 3: of those things. 298 00:16:50,765 --> 00:16:54,285 Speaker 2: At once, right, because you do see that frigility in 299 00:16:54,325 --> 00:16:57,885 Speaker 2: her as well, and maybe hypocrisy way too strong of 300 00:16:57,925 --> 00:17:01,285 Speaker 2: a word. It really is her humanity that she herself 301 00:17:01,325 --> 00:17:05,645 Speaker 2: despite that bulwark, despite how strong she is, you see 302 00:17:05,805 --> 00:17:09,645 Speaker 2: little cracks. You see her succumbing to the sexual politics, 303 00:17:09,685 --> 00:17:12,405 Speaker 2: I think in her own way, especially in the tension 304 00:17:12,525 --> 00:17:16,365 Speaker 2: between her and Scott Glenn as Jack Crawford. 305 00:17:16,045 --> 00:17:20,365 Speaker 5: See double major cycing criminology. Graduated magna summer internships through 306 00:17:20,405 --> 00:17:24,245 Speaker 5: Risinger and it says here, when you graduate, you want 307 00:17:24,245 --> 00:17:27,445 Speaker 5: to come to work for me in behavioral science, Yes 308 00:17:27,565 --> 00:17:28,085 Speaker 5: very much. 309 00:17:27,925 --> 00:17:28,805 Speaker 4: Sir, very much. 310 00:17:29,765 --> 00:17:31,845 Speaker 2: It seems as if maybe he's aware of the fact 311 00:17:31,845 --> 00:17:35,125 Speaker 2: that he could be playing the older sort of father 312 00:17:35,325 --> 00:17:38,965 Speaker 2: figure love interest to her, but also he's trying to 313 00:17:38,965 --> 00:17:41,685 Speaker 2: manipulate her in his own way so he can get 314 00:17:41,685 --> 00:17:46,245 Speaker 2: her to help him solve this case. But you occasionally 315 00:17:46,245 --> 00:17:48,845 Speaker 2: see in Demi's camera as well, when it's trained on 316 00:17:48,965 --> 00:17:51,605 Speaker 2: Foster in some of these interactions, and her smiles, her 317 00:17:51,685 --> 00:17:55,445 Speaker 2: uneasy smiles, that she kind of seems to really enjoy 318 00:17:55,605 --> 00:17:59,205 Speaker 2: the attention from Jack Crawford. Maybe it's because she's ambitious, 319 00:17:59,245 --> 00:18:01,005 Speaker 2: that's certainly part of it, and she knows that the 320 00:18:01,005 --> 00:18:03,445 Speaker 2: more she plays the game and the more she does well, 321 00:18:03,485 --> 00:18:06,005 Speaker 2: and the more pleased he is with her, the better 322 00:18:06,085 --> 00:18:09,885 Speaker 2: it is for her career. But there's a door that's 323 00:18:09,925 --> 00:18:12,325 Speaker 2: left open there. And I love the scene, and I 324 00:18:12,365 --> 00:18:14,365 Speaker 2: know we may talk about some of the editing here 325 00:18:14,565 --> 00:18:17,325 Speaker 2: a little bit in more detail. I love the scene 326 00:18:17,725 --> 00:18:20,525 Speaker 2: where they're talking on the phone and he's on the 327 00:18:20,565 --> 00:18:25,085 Speaker 2: plane and he says, none of this could have happened 328 00:18:25,125 --> 00:18:28,445 Speaker 2: without you. We've got it all figured out, and you'll 329 00:18:28,445 --> 00:18:32,205 Speaker 2: be remembered for this. And you see how pleased she 330 00:18:32,405 --> 00:18:36,605 Speaker 2: is with herself for getting that praise from him, and 331 00:18:36,645 --> 00:18:38,725 Speaker 2: she says something. I don't remember the exact line, but 332 00:18:38,845 --> 00:18:41,605 Speaker 2: she says something back to him, and Demi cuts to 333 00:18:42,325 --> 00:18:45,885 Speaker 2: the plane just doing like a maneuver. He's clearly gotten 334 00:18:45,925 --> 00:18:48,285 Speaker 2: off the line, like he told her exactly what he 335 00:18:48,365 --> 00:18:50,765 Speaker 2: needed to tell her to make her feel a certain way, 336 00:18:51,045 --> 00:18:52,565 Speaker 2: but then as soon as he said it, he just 337 00:18:52,645 --> 00:18:54,245 Speaker 2: hug up the phone and left her hanging. 338 00:18:54,365 --> 00:18:56,925 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of layers to that relationship. And 339 00:18:57,405 --> 00:19:00,165 Speaker 3: you know what's the word that Lecter uses when he 340 00:19:00,285 --> 00:19:05,485 Speaker 3: says what Starling has. It's not ambition, but it's something 341 00:19:05,965 --> 00:19:09,605 Speaker 3: like that, like that's kind of the key to unlocking 342 00:19:09,725 --> 00:19:12,205 Speaker 3: her on one level for Lecter is that she has 343 00:19:12,245 --> 00:19:14,245 Speaker 3: this sort of ambition, So I think that is definitely 344 00:19:14,245 --> 00:19:17,205 Speaker 3: the driving force in her relationship for Crawford. But the 345 00:19:17,205 --> 00:19:20,045 Speaker 3: performances are subtle enough, and we get moments like that 346 00:19:20,085 --> 00:19:22,605 Speaker 3: where it does allow other possibilities to which just makes 347 00:19:22,605 --> 00:19:25,525 Speaker 3: it that much more interesting. So the editing, Yeah, Craig 348 00:19:25,605 --> 00:19:28,165 Speaker 3: McKay was nominated for an Oscar for the editing, and 349 00:19:28,725 --> 00:19:34,565 Speaker 3: you know, I it's more of a showy sequence, but 350 00:19:35,165 --> 00:19:39,445 Speaker 3: I love the climax, the back and forth, the parallel 351 00:19:39,925 --> 00:19:44,645 Speaker 3: fake out that is it's almost criminal in it's duplicity 352 00:19:44,925 --> 00:19:48,125 Speaker 3: in how that is used to It's the kind of 353 00:19:48,165 --> 00:19:50,045 Speaker 3: thing where I, even as it was coming, I just 354 00:19:50,045 --> 00:19:51,965 Speaker 3: wished I could have wiped it from my memory because 355 00:19:52,005 --> 00:19:57,165 Speaker 3: I remember the confusion, but it wasn't bad confusion the 356 00:19:57,205 --> 00:19:59,445 Speaker 3: first time that happened, and I was trying to put 357 00:19:59,485 --> 00:20:03,245 Speaker 3: together now, wait, where is Starling, where is Crawford? Who 358 00:20:03,285 --> 00:20:07,005 Speaker 3: are they talking to? And the editing there is just 359 00:20:07,085 --> 00:20:10,165 Speaker 3: so duplicitous in this way that you, even as you're 360 00:20:10,205 --> 00:20:13,045 Speaker 3: being fooled, you're just kind of in awe of And 361 00:20:13,045 --> 00:20:15,925 Speaker 3: it's not just one cut. It's a it's a handful 362 00:20:15,965 --> 00:20:20,005 Speaker 3: of them back and forth that's slowly lifting the veil 363 00:20:20,165 --> 00:20:24,165 Speaker 3: from our eye in a way that is torturous as 364 00:20:24,205 --> 00:20:27,645 Speaker 3: a thriller should be, and just so effective even when 365 00:20:27,685 --> 00:20:28,965 Speaker 3: you know what's coming. It's still effective. 366 00:20:29,085 --> 00:20:32,285 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it really is. I still was completely sorry 367 00:20:32,325 --> 00:20:34,165 Speaker 2: to use the cliche on the edge of my seat, 368 00:20:34,285 --> 00:20:39,165 Speaker 2: and I think that beyond it being nice cinematic trickery 369 00:20:39,405 --> 00:20:42,205 Speaker 2: like you alluded to, it's so perfect because it fits 370 00:20:42,205 --> 00:20:45,125 Speaker 2: back into the scheme we've been talking about, which is 371 00:20:45,365 --> 00:20:48,565 Speaker 2: throughout the entire movie, it has been about how people, 372 00:20:48,925 --> 00:20:52,085 Speaker 2: how men look at Clarice. So I'm getting into the 373 00:20:52,125 --> 00:20:56,605 Speaker 2: actual mechanics of that showdown at the end with Buffalo 374 00:20:56,725 --> 00:21:00,325 Speaker 2: Bill and him putting on the night goggles and stalking her. 375 00:21:01,045 --> 00:21:03,525 Speaker 2: That's what we've seen the entire movie is men watching 376 00:21:03,645 --> 00:21:06,605 Speaker 2: and stalking her. So of course, in that moment, seeing 377 00:21:06,645 --> 00:21:09,525 Speaker 2: that all play out from his perspective and his view 378 00:21:09,645 --> 00:21:13,445 Speaker 2: of her, it is just so appropriate to the film overall. 379 00:21:13,725 --> 00:21:16,685 Speaker 2: And I'll give you another edit. I like, that's really subtle, 380 00:21:17,485 --> 00:21:20,245 Speaker 2: and maybe it stands out to me as well because 381 00:21:20,245 --> 00:21:23,645 Speaker 2: of the line that's set and I'm really zooming in 382 00:21:23,725 --> 00:21:27,925 Speaker 2: on this notion of watching. It's when she goes to 383 00:21:27,925 --> 00:21:32,165 Speaker 2: meet Lecter for the first time, and she is now 384 00:21:32,445 --> 00:21:36,925 Speaker 2: gotten through the bars. She's talking to the attendant. I 385 00:21:37,045 --> 00:21:41,125 Speaker 2: never had noticed before, Josh, that demi so perfectly. As 386 00:21:41,125 --> 00:21:44,165 Speaker 2: soon as she gets on the other side, the color 387 00:21:44,325 --> 00:21:46,765 Speaker 2: changes to red, and it just takes you as you're 388 00:21:46,845 --> 00:21:52,085 Speaker 2: watching it as a viewer, It subconsciously makes you completely 389 00:21:52,085 --> 00:21:53,765 Speaker 2: on alert and scared. 390 00:21:53,845 --> 00:21:56,085 Speaker 3: Can I add something to that? The thing I noticed 391 00:21:56,125 --> 00:21:58,925 Speaker 3: this time, which is brilliant, speaks exactly to that. Before 392 00:21:58,965 --> 00:22:02,405 Speaker 3: those red security lights turn on, they come down. It's 393 00:22:02,445 --> 00:22:05,525 Speaker 3: like a basement dungeon that he's imprisoned in old fashioned 394 00:22:05,525 --> 00:22:07,605 Speaker 3: prison bars. They have to wait for a few moments 395 00:22:07,645 --> 00:22:12,485 Speaker 3: at Did you notice how bloody red those bars are painted? 396 00:22:12,565 --> 00:22:14,765 Speaker 3: So this is an element of production design. It makes 397 00:22:15,045 --> 00:22:17,485 Speaker 3: no real sense, like why would they need everything else 398 00:22:17,525 --> 00:22:22,605 Speaker 3: in that dungeon prison is like stone gray, brown, moldy old. 399 00:22:23,005 --> 00:22:25,485 Speaker 3: But this set of buyers that she stands before bright 400 00:22:25,565 --> 00:22:29,325 Speaker 3: bloody red, and we notice that it jumps out at us, 401 00:22:29,405 --> 00:22:31,685 Speaker 3: and then that security light goes on and the whole 402 00:22:31,725 --> 00:22:35,485 Speaker 3: screen turns red. It's it's just, yeah, such a perfect touch. 403 00:22:36,045 --> 00:22:40,005 Speaker 2: And after those bloody bars finally do close, and she's 404 00:22:40,045 --> 00:22:42,885 Speaker 2: on the other side. The whole time we're watching that exchange. 405 00:22:42,925 --> 00:22:46,365 Speaker 2: It's a fairly traditional kind of shot reverse shot, and 406 00:22:46,405 --> 00:22:48,205 Speaker 2: we fall into a little bit of the comfort zone 407 00:22:48,205 --> 00:22:50,365 Speaker 2: of that as she's talking to that guy. But as 408 00:22:50,365 --> 00:22:53,525 Speaker 2: soon as he says I'll be watching, you'll do fine 409 00:22:54,005 --> 00:22:57,925 Speaker 2: on the word fine, the cut goes to a straight 410 00:22:57,965 --> 00:23:02,605 Speaker 2: on shot from down the hallway of Clarice, and it 411 00:23:02,805 --> 00:23:05,605 Speaker 2: is unnerving because now, just in that one subtle cut, 412 00:23:05,805 --> 00:23:09,725 Speaker 2: it has broken up the comfort of that shot reverse 413 00:23:09,725 --> 00:23:13,765 Speaker 2: shot of that conversation, and in addition to that, it's 414 00:23:13,805 --> 00:23:17,205 Speaker 2: as if something is waiting for her down that hallway. Right, 415 00:23:17,485 --> 00:23:19,605 Speaker 2: it's not deep down the hallway, but just by moving 416 00:23:19,685 --> 00:23:22,845 Speaker 2: it to that side, to that plane where we are, 417 00:23:22,925 --> 00:23:25,445 Speaker 2: where the camera is, we're waiting. And now she has 418 00:23:25,565 --> 00:23:30,165 Speaker 2: to actually leave the safety of that world and she 419 00:23:30,165 --> 00:23:32,445 Speaker 2: has to come down the hallway towards us. It's so great. 420 00:23:33,045 --> 00:23:36,765 Speaker 3: Yeah, And the cinematography in a later confrontation between them 421 00:23:36,805 --> 00:23:41,045 Speaker 3: in that space where you get that just beautiful haunting 422 00:23:41,165 --> 00:23:45,005 Speaker 3: shot of her looking in at Lector's cell through the glass. 423 00:23:45,645 --> 00:23:47,845 Speaker 3: She's facing the camera, so she's looking at us and 424 00:23:47,885 --> 00:23:51,125 Speaker 3: then Lecter comes up from behind to be closer, and 425 00:23:51,165 --> 00:23:55,245 Speaker 3: his reflection just sits nicely. You can see through it. 426 00:23:55,245 --> 00:23:58,445 Speaker 3: It's ghostly right next to her face. So they're having 427 00:23:58,485 --> 00:24:02,805 Speaker 3: this conversation in tandem, both sharing the frame, so that 428 00:24:02,925 --> 00:24:06,205 Speaker 3: you know tech Fujimoto's work. It's interesting you said you 429 00:24:06,245 --> 00:24:09,125 Speaker 3: were surprised at how I forget what word you said, 430 00:24:09,125 --> 00:24:11,725 Speaker 3: but not over the top, but heightened something like that 431 00:24:12,005 --> 00:24:16,165 Speaker 3: the movie was, and I think that's true. I think 432 00:24:16,205 --> 00:24:19,325 Speaker 3: the cinematography kind of strikes this nice balance of a 433 00:24:19,325 --> 00:24:22,525 Speaker 3: lot of the scenes have almost a bureique austerity to them. 434 00:24:22,805 --> 00:24:25,365 Speaker 3: You could almost be watching like a TV cop show, 435 00:24:26,365 --> 00:24:29,325 Speaker 3: a well shot a TV cop show. But that's kind 436 00:24:29,325 --> 00:24:31,925 Speaker 3: of what's being emphasized. Then we get these moments of 437 00:24:31,965 --> 00:24:36,245 Speaker 3: operatic intensity that I had forgotten too. I associated those 438 00:24:36,245 --> 00:24:38,645 Speaker 3: with some of the more, you know, completely over the 439 00:24:38,645 --> 00:24:41,365 Speaker 3: top sequels that we would get. But there is an 440 00:24:41,445 --> 00:24:45,205 Speaker 3: element of that here, you know, probably most notably in 441 00:24:45,765 --> 00:24:48,765 Speaker 3: the murder sequence, after they have their confrontation in the 442 00:24:48,765 --> 00:24:51,765 Speaker 3: courthouse where he's been moved and he's in this cage now, 443 00:24:52,125 --> 00:24:54,325 Speaker 3: and this was this was a top five Demi scene 444 00:24:54,325 --> 00:24:57,245 Speaker 3: for you, Adam. And then the aftermath of that, when 445 00:24:57,245 --> 00:25:00,765 Speaker 3: he murders the security guards, that is this operatic intensity 446 00:25:00,805 --> 00:25:03,645 Speaker 3: I'm talking about where the lighting is streaming through we 447 00:25:03,685 --> 00:25:06,885 Speaker 3: get more red. So I just like the the two 448 00:25:07,045 --> 00:25:10,565 Speaker 3: modes that Fujimoto is working here in this film that 449 00:25:10,645 --> 00:25:13,325 Speaker 3: I think. I think the effect for me is it 450 00:25:13,365 --> 00:25:16,805 Speaker 3: does make it scarier because as insane as some of 451 00:25:16,805 --> 00:25:21,005 Speaker 3: the imagery gets, we then get yanked back into these 452 00:25:21,085 --> 00:25:24,765 Speaker 3: settings that are lit like real life and that right, 453 00:25:25,165 --> 00:25:27,165 Speaker 3: and then that brings it closer to where I am 454 00:25:27,445 --> 00:25:29,485 Speaker 3: and makes me more nervous. 455 00:25:29,805 --> 00:25:31,205 Speaker 2: Are you close to catching somebody? 456 00:25:31,205 --> 00:25:35,205 Speaker 5: You think, yes, we may be. 457 00:25:37,885 --> 00:25:42,285 Speaker 1: Did you take over this place after missus Littman died? 458 00:25:42,365 --> 00:25:42,845 Speaker 5: Is that right? 459 00:25:45,005 --> 00:25:45,685 Speaker 2: Yeah? 460 00:25:45,245 --> 00:25:48,885 Speaker 5: I bought this house served two years ago. 461 00:25:50,525 --> 00:25:55,005 Speaker 3: Does she leave any records, any business records, tax forms, 462 00:25:56,165 --> 00:25:57,045 Speaker 3: list of employee? 463 00:25:58,525 --> 00:26:04,205 Speaker 5: Oh, nothing like that at all, says the FBI learned 464 00:26:04,205 --> 00:26:08,365 Speaker 5: something the police around here don't see. As the first cloth. 465 00:26:10,605 --> 00:26:13,285 Speaker 2: I'll also say, as we're talking about some of the 466 00:26:13,325 --> 00:26:16,405 Speaker 2: visual strengths of this film and the editing, that good 467 00:26:16,525 --> 00:26:19,685 Speaker 2: editing is, and of course always about an actual cut 468 00:26:19,845 --> 00:26:23,805 Speaker 2: or how cuts are use. It's also in the camera movement, 469 00:26:23,885 --> 00:26:27,685 Speaker 2: the decision not to cut, and in the blocking, so 470 00:26:27,765 --> 00:26:30,845 Speaker 2: you get a moment, for example, that might be the 471 00:26:30,925 --> 00:26:33,605 Speaker 2: single scariest one in the whole movie Josh actually in 472 00:26:33,645 --> 00:26:37,045 Speaker 2: its own way, which is that introductory scene I think 473 00:26:37,085 --> 00:26:41,085 Speaker 2: with Lecter, whereas she comes around, he's just standing there 474 00:26:41,125 --> 00:26:43,845 Speaker 2: in the middle of the cell, looking at her, waiting 475 00:26:43,885 --> 00:26:46,005 Speaker 2: for her. The stillness of it, right, the fact that 476 00:26:46,005 --> 00:26:48,325 Speaker 2: that camera and her point of view comes around and 477 00:26:48,365 --> 00:26:52,405 Speaker 2: we see him there waiting. Whereas anybody else in the 478 00:26:52,405 --> 00:26:54,605 Speaker 2: real world you go to have a meeting with someone, 479 00:26:54,725 --> 00:26:57,925 Speaker 2: they're doing whatever they do, they're going about their day. 480 00:26:58,005 --> 00:27:01,005 Speaker 2: You walk in and you then strike up a conversation, 481 00:27:01,085 --> 00:27:04,885 Speaker 2: but no, he's standing in that awkward place, awkwardly. And 482 00:27:05,125 --> 00:27:08,005 Speaker 2: every time she meets with him, even in that cell, 483 00:27:08,725 --> 00:27:11,325 Speaker 2: notice that he's always in a different part of the cell, right, 484 00:27:11,405 --> 00:27:14,605 Speaker 2: and sometimes he shrouded in darkness differently or more visible 485 00:27:14,925 --> 00:27:16,645 Speaker 2: in the light. And they play with that too in 486 00:27:16,685 --> 00:27:19,805 Speaker 2: terms of sort of veiling with the characters, where I 487 00:27:19,885 --> 00:27:24,125 Speaker 2: noticed this time that you don't really get a full 488 00:27:24,245 --> 00:27:29,845 Speaker 2: look at who Buffalo Bill is Ted Levine playing that 489 00:27:30,485 --> 00:27:37,285 Speaker 2: character until Josh Demi has actually given us more information 490 00:27:37,845 --> 00:27:41,045 Speaker 2: about who he is. I'll try to explain that we 491 00:27:41,085 --> 00:27:43,885 Speaker 2: don't get a glimpse of him as a full figure. 492 00:27:44,005 --> 00:27:47,605 Speaker 2: It's always his head just around a corner, or it's 493 00:27:47,725 --> 00:27:51,925 Speaker 2: his face and his body while he's at night moving 494 00:27:51,925 --> 00:27:55,445 Speaker 2: that couch. That whole ruse to get the woman in 495 00:27:55,565 --> 00:27:59,045 Speaker 2: the van with him, But we don't really feel like 496 00:27:59,325 --> 00:28:01,925 Speaker 2: we know who this character is. The whole movie is 497 00:28:01,965 --> 00:28:05,485 Speaker 2: about Buffalo Bill. Every interaction between Clarice and Hannibal Lecter 498 00:28:05,765 --> 00:28:12,125 Speaker 2: is about Buffalo Bill, and Demi is restrained, he withholds. 499 00:28:12,405 --> 00:28:15,285 Speaker 2: He doesn't show us who he is, what he really 500 00:28:15,325 --> 00:28:18,925 Speaker 2: fully looks like, and how imposing or not imposing a 501 00:28:19,045 --> 00:28:23,685 Speaker 2: figure he is until we have finally had some conversations 502 00:28:23,725 --> 00:28:27,405 Speaker 2: between Lecter and Clarice about who he really is and 503 00:28:27,405 --> 00:28:30,205 Speaker 2: what his pathology is. And it's like almost on cue. 504 00:28:30,685 --> 00:28:34,445 Speaker 2: After Demi does that, we then see him putting on 505 00:28:34,485 --> 00:28:36,645 Speaker 2: the makeup and we see his whole body, and we 506 00:28:36,685 --> 00:28:40,005 Speaker 2: see him be himself, or at least the vision of 507 00:28:40,085 --> 00:28:41,045 Speaker 2: himself he wants to be. 508 00:28:41,485 --> 00:28:44,005 Speaker 3: I did want to say about the Buffalo Bill character 509 00:28:44,325 --> 00:28:47,205 Speaker 3: Jamie Gumm played by Ted Levine, You know, especially because 510 00:28:47,205 --> 00:28:50,725 Speaker 3: I brought up this whole issue of humanity, you could argue, 511 00:28:50,965 --> 00:28:54,005 Speaker 3: and you know, people have been arguing this, especially a 512 00:28:54,045 --> 00:28:59,325 Speaker 3: transgender community since the film came out, that the sense 513 00:28:59,325 --> 00:29:02,125 Speaker 3: of humanity does not extend to this character. And I 514 00:29:02,165 --> 00:29:06,805 Speaker 3: think you can agree that because his gender is kind 515 00:29:06,805 --> 00:29:11,645 Speaker 3: of wrapped up. Basically, it's unavoidable that the movie uses 516 00:29:12,245 --> 00:29:14,965 Speaker 3: his gender issues to freak the audience out. And I 517 00:29:14,965 --> 00:29:17,285 Speaker 3: know Demi has spoke to this and expressed some regret 518 00:29:17,325 --> 00:29:20,765 Speaker 3: to some degree. It's a very complicated topic, but I 519 00:29:20,805 --> 00:29:23,245 Speaker 3: think is one worth considering, and I was really glad 520 00:29:23,245 --> 00:29:26,525 Speaker 3: to see, rather than speak on it myself, the av 521 00:29:26,605 --> 00:29:31,045 Speaker 3: Club ran a really informative, helpful article by Harmony Colangelo. 522 00:29:31,245 --> 00:29:32,885 Speaker 3: I think it was just this week, maybe the week 523 00:29:32,925 --> 00:29:36,445 Speaker 3: before because of the thirtieth anniversary, that traces the history 524 00:29:36,845 --> 00:29:40,485 Speaker 3: of these complaints about the film and really some of 525 00:29:40,525 --> 00:29:44,325 Speaker 3: the nuance about what might be questionable about the depiction here. 526 00:29:44,445 --> 00:29:46,805 Speaker 3: So we'll link to that in the show notes because 527 00:29:46,805 --> 00:29:49,085 Speaker 3: I think it is important, especially in this context of 528 00:29:49,125 --> 00:29:51,085 Speaker 3: how much humanity there is in the movie, because it 529 00:29:51,765 --> 00:29:54,645 Speaker 3: does you know, those camera angles are given to Lecter 530 00:29:54,725 --> 00:29:57,245 Speaker 3: that I was talking about, those extreme close ups, and 531 00:29:57,405 --> 00:30:00,325 Speaker 3: it's debatable whether Jamie Gumm gets that sort of treatment. 532 00:30:00,365 --> 00:30:03,845 Speaker 3: Now he's the villain and a serial killer thriller. But 533 00:30:03,925 --> 00:30:06,405 Speaker 3: we've talked about how the Silence of the Lambs has 534 00:30:06,765 --> 00:30:09,685 Speaker 3: elevated above the genre in many other ways, and maybe 535 00:30:09,685 --> 00:30:10,765 Speaker 3: this is one way it doesn't. 536 00:30:11,205 --> 00:30:13,925 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe not, And I will admit that I have 537 00:30:14,045 --> 00:30:18,285 Speaker 2: not read that article yet or really wrestled with this topic, 538 00:30:18,325 --> 00:30:20,245 Speaker 2: though I am definitely aware of it. I feel like 539 00:30:20,325 --> 00:30:24,245 Speaker 2: the movie at least tries to get itself out of 540 00:30:24,285 --> 00:30:28,125 Speaker 2: that debate or tries to cover itself whether or not 541 00:30:28,485 --> 00:30:30,285 Speaker 2: you buy it or not. And again, this is nineteen 542 00:30:30,365 --> 00:30:33,125 Speaker 2: ninety one when this movie is coming out, but it 543 00:30:33,285 --> 00:30:36,965 Speaker 2: says that you know, of course he's not really a right, Yeah, 544 00:30:37,245 --> 00:30:40,005 Speaker 2: that's not who he is. It's more that his pathology 545 00:30:40,085 --> 00:30:42,405 Speaker 2: is all cut up in this complete distortion of who 546 00:30:42,725 --> 00:30:45,045 Speaker 2: he really is and what his identity is. He only 547 00:30:45,885 --> 00:30:51,565 Speaker 2: thinks he is or perceives himself as transgender, which covers 548 00:30:51,605 --> 00:30:52,285 Speaker 2: them a little bit. 549 00:30:52,325 --> 00:30:56,165 Speaker 3: Maybe, Josh, Yeah, while watching it knowing this was in 550 00:30:56,205 --> 00:30:58,285 Speaker 3: the back of my head, I made note of that too, 551 00:30:58,645 --> 00:31:02,725 Speaker 3: And Colangelo's piece directly addresses that sort of self protection 552 00:31:03,165 --> 00:31:05,125 Speaker 3: and maybe what the movie was trying to do and 553 00:31:05,165 --> 00:31:07,045 Speaker 3: where that might fall short too. So yeah, I definitely 554 00:31:07,085 --> 00:31:10,845 Speaker 3: recommend reading that so we haven't really talked about Hopkins. 555 00:31:10,485 --> 00:31:12,405 Speaker 1: And I'm hoping to bring it up. 556 00:31:12,485 --> 00:31:15,565 Speaker 3: Can we save it for our top five Anthony Hopkins 557 00:31:15,685 --> 00:31:18,245 Speaker 3: top five, or at least save most of it, because 558 00:31:18,445 --> 00:31:20,845 Speaker 3: he's definitely going to be on my list. Obviously it's 559 00:31:20,845 --> 00:31:23,605 Speaker 3: a strength. That's what I said. You could see why 560 00:31:23,645 --> 00:31:27,005 Speaker 3: Oscar voters saw. You know, this is a way into 561 00:31:27,085 --> 00:31:30,045 Speaker 3: honoring a movie like this when you get a performance 562 00:31:30,165 --> 00:31:32,885 Speaker 3: like this. I'm sure there's tons of things we can say, 563 00:31:32,925 --> 00:31:34,325 Speaker 3: So maybe I don't know, you want to touch on 564 00:31:34,405 --> 00:31:36,245 Speaker 3: at least one and then we say the rest. 565 00:31:36,565 --> 00:31:39,845 Speaker 2: You know what, let's table the Hopkins talk. We're gonna 566 00:31:39,885 --> 00:31:42,125 Speaker 2: have plenty of it over the next week or so. 567 00:31:42,205 --> 00:31:44,645 Speaker 2: Here on the show. Silence of the Lambs is currently 568 00:31:44,685 --> 00:31:47,765 Speaker 2: available to rent on most platforms. You might also find 569 00:31:47,765 --> 00:31:51,205 Speaker 2: a DVD copy in some really creepy abandoned storage unit. 570 00:31:51,325 --> 00:31:54,085 Speaker 2: Good luck with that search. If you see it and 571 00:31:54,165 --> 00:31:57,085 Speaker 2: agree or disagree with our takes, email us feedback at 572 00:31:57,085 --> 00:31:58,445 Speaker 2: filmspotting dot net. 573 00:31:58,765 --> 00:32:03,205 Speaker 4: Spook easily Storlingty. 574 00:32:03,365 --> 00:32:04,405 Speaker 5: He's pasted the others. 575 00:32:04,805 --> 00:32:06,965 Speaker 2: The last sell I'll be watching. 576 00:32:07,765 --> 00:32:08,805 Speaker 5: You'll do fine. 577 00:32:09,885 --> 00:32:12,805 Speaker 2: Access to the film Spotting archive. Josh is just one 578 00:32:12,845 --> 00:32:15,845 Speaker 2: of the benefits one of the main benefits of being 579 00:32:15,885 --> 00:32:18,805 Speaker 2: a Film Spotting Family member. What else do you get? 580 00:32:19,485 --> 00:32:22,925 Speaker 3: Bonus shows? 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