Speaker 1: My guest today is actor and activist Alyssa Milano. Alyssa
Speaker 1: has played iconic roles on shows like Charmed and Who's
Speaker 1: the Boss, and in recent years, she's played an even
Speaker 1: bigger role in political and social issues. She was an
Speaker 1: early leader in the me too movement and made the
Speaker 1: hashtag me to go viral on Twitter. She's also been
Speaker 1: very involved in issues related to women's reproductive rights, voter rights,
Speaker 1: and ending gun violence. Today I talked to Alyssa Milano.
Speaker 1: She's very interesting. She's had an extraordinary life and journey,
Speaker 1: and she's fearless in expressing her opinions and fighting for
Speaker 1: what she believes is right. And I'm really excited for
Speaker 1: this interview. In reading about you, I was realizing that
Speaker 1: I grew up with you. That I mean, I you know,
Speaker 1: we forget that people who become a reality for us
Speaker 1: now that could be up here where idols when we
Speaker 1: were kids. I mean, that show was my mother watching
Speaker 1: and just like so invested, and you just don't think
Speaker 1: about the lives of people are living behind that. So
Speaker 1: now to hear all about what was going on from
Speaker 1: then to now is actually just surreal. So very nice
Speaker 1: to meet you. Nice to meet you to thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think that that was such a different time,
Speaker 1: right because like we actually watched TV with our families
Speaker 1: at that time. It's so true. It wasn't like you know,
Speaker 1: kids were now where they're just on their phone the
Speaker 1: whole time, when you know, it's very rare that I
Speaker 1: sit down with my kids and watch something altogether as
Speaker 1: a family. So I think it's so true. And there
Speaker 1: were fewer choices and we were more focused, which is
Speaker 1: a whole conversation in and of itself. Of course, I'm
Speaker 1: aware of the impact that you've had on women and society,
Speaker 1: and but in reading about you, you've been through a lot,
Speaker 1: like just so many different not unlike myself, so many
Speaker 1: different things on your journey stick out to me, whether
Speaker 1: it's dyslexia or people using photos, I mean, using video
Speaker 1: of you, nude video of you, just like it feels
Speaker 1: like you've you're a fighter, or you've become a fighter,
Speaker 1: or you're born a fighter. It just feels like you're
Speaker 1: always sort of having to tackle something. Has that subsided
Speaker 1: or is that just I know, I just think that
Speaker 1: I've become more resilient, right, Like, I don't think I
Speaker 1: don't think the chaos ever really really ends. And I
Speaker 1: think that's true for everyone, although I think people have um,
Speaker 1: you know, relative to their lives, different types of chaos.
Speaker 1: But I am constantly amazed at how resilient people are
Speaker 1: in general. Um. And you know, I have often thought like,
Speaker 1: it's not that i'm it's not that I'm bummed that
Speaker 1: I've had to overcome so much. It's it's feel like
Speaker 1: that i'm that I'm almost um And I don't. It's
Speaker 1: not numb. It's like I'm good in a I'm good
Speaker 1: in a crisis situation. I think, what do you got?
Speaker 1: What do you hit me? Let's go yeah. And it's
Speaker 1: not until like later that I go, oh shit, like
Speaker 1: I I went, I went through some stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like you get this warrior, this warrior instinct that
Speaker 1: sort of takes over um. And for me, at least,
Speaker 1: it's not until you know, well later where where I
Speaker 1: realized how how that could have been a traumatic time right,
Speaker 1: And many people can relate to that in their child
Speaker 1: hoods and in their personal homes. But it feels like
Speaker 1: for you, this was really going on in this industry
Speaker 1: versus just in your in your home you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like many people can go back, like me
Speaker 1: to their crazy childhood and the things they shouldn't have
Speaker 1: endured and think about that and how that's molded them.
Speaker 1: But it sounds from what I've read about you that
Speaker 1: this is really something that this that had occurred through
Speaker 1: this path, this industry, if you had just lived a
Speaker 1: quote unquote normal life with your family life, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: have had this sort of journey. Yeah, I mean, this
Speaker 1: industry is, it's it was not an easy industry to
Speaker 1: grow up and for sure, you know, but I think, um,
Speaker 1: what happens is is it kind of amplifies who you
Speaker 1: would have been anyway, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, when I look at child actors that have
Speaker 1: gone through should and made some uh maybe not smart
Speaker 1: life choices, I think that would have been the case
Speaker 1: no matter what they were doing in their lives. Um,
Speaker 1: And so I don't I don't think that's untrue for
Speaker 1: for my instance. I think, you know, it's and it's
Speaker 1: getting better, but it's a very hard industry. I mean
Speaker 1: when you think about like you know, I'm not an
Speaker 1: ambassador for UNI stuff, and I travel the world to
Speaker 1: make sure that that people aren't taking advantage of children
Speaker 1: in the labor force. Right. And when you think about
Speaker 1: like acting, music, entertaining, dancing, we expect so much of
Speaker 1: our of our youth, um, and especially like acting, where
Speaker 1: we're working and constantly surrounded by adults. It's like that's
Speaker 1: what I fight against as a UNISETUFF ambassador, Like there's
Speaker 1: no there's no real labor laws for child actors, right.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking of I'm thinking of mcaulleague Culkin, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of Corey hey m who you you know you
Speaker 1: tried to help. I'm thinking of so many kid to
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, Justin Bieber. I'm thinking of all these kids
Speaker 1: with all this responsibility that the TikTok people, the Charlie
Speaker 1: Demilio's and things like that. Can kids bear that responsibility?
Speaker 1: Should this whole clock not start until later? And what's
Speaker 1: the answer, what's the solution? How does it really get managed?
Speaker 1: Because you don't know until something comes out of the oven,
Speaker 1: when it's baked, what the damage has been, what the
Speaker 1: It's true, Um, I think that I think that we
Speaker 1: need to put in place more regulation. Um. But this
Speaker 1: is true across the board in the industry. It's not
Speaker 1: just with children, but it's also like like women, you know,
Speaker 1: like I think about all the time, how if you
Speaker 1: have if you have if you're shooting a movie with
Speaker 1: a dog in it, you have someone from the humane
Speaker 1: society off to the side making sure that that animal
Speaker 1: is not being abused. That when women have to do
Speaker 1: nudes scenes or simulated sex scene, there's nobody there to
Speaker 1: make sure we're protected or we're okay. And I think
Speaker 1: that that's true across the board in the business. I
Speaker 1: think there should be more regulations for young people, especially
Speaker 1: in you know, and we're in unions, so it shouldn't
Speaker 1: be that hard to figure out how to oversee and
Speaker 1: regulate and have some sort of protective oversight. But I
Speaker 1: think it's necessary, I really do, because I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a long list of child performers that that
Speaker 1: grew up and you know, came out of the oven
Speaker 1: and we're not okay right when you revitalize me too,
Speaker 1: and kind of you know, took it to a stratospheric level.
Speaker 1: Did you have any sort of subtle chess move planned?
Speaker 1: Did you? Even though you may not have realized and
Speaker 1: you I'm sure overshot the mark did you was there
Speaker 1: something underneath saying like, wow, I have his feeling this
Speaker 1: could be something or just feels like a wave that's crusting,
Speaker 1: or or was it literally just shocking? I do. I
Speaker 1: do think that there was a perfect storm going on
Speaker 1: because if you look at like what led up to
Speaker 1: the tweet going viral, it was the Access Hollywood tape,
Speaker 1: and then the election, and then the Women's March, and
Speaker 1: then all of them the silence breakers coming out about
Speaker 1: Harvey Wine seen and then it was the tweet that
Speaker 1: went viral. So if you look at the big picture,
Speaker 1: I do think it was like we were just primed
Speaker 1: for uh an explosion of um of really communicating that
Speaker 1: there is a serious problem. But I don't think I
Speaker 1: ever thought but it would be as you know, as colossal,
Speaker 1: and I don't you know. I remember a couple of
Speaker 1: days after the tweet went viral, I got a call
Speaker 1: from Sarah, my publicist, and she was like, do you
Speaker 1: know do you know there was a woman named Toronto
Speaker 1: Burke who's been doing this work that used me too
Speaker 1: years ago, And I was like, no, please put me
Speaker 1: in contact with her. And I think finding Toronto and
Speaker 1: the life saving work she does with survivors was such
Speaker 1: a relief for me because I didn't I didn't know
Speaker 1: what to do. I was dealing with my own trauma
Speaker 1: around sexual violence, so I didn't I didn't know how
Speaker 1: to lead this this this moment, right and then here's
Speaker 1: this woman who had dedicated her entire life two survivors,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, thank goodness, and I'll never
Speaker 1: forget it because she said to me. I was on
Speaker 1: the phone with her like four days after, and it
Speaker 1: was just this this swell of it just felt really big,
Speaker 1: and she said to me, how are you doing? And
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not okay. I am not okay,
Speaker 1: you know, because because the the the heartbreaking thing was
Speaker 1: that I then became like if I looked at my
Speaker 1: Twitter feed, it was all stories of sexual harassment and
Speaker 1: violence and assault and people really sharing that part of
Speaker 1: themselves with me. And I was still trying to figure
Speaker 1: out how that made sense of my own body. Um
Speaker 1: So to have someone like Toronto was amazing, but also,
Speaker 1: like I remember, about a week after it went viral,
Speaker 1: I got a call from my field officer from the
Speaker 1: UNSF about Ethiopia and how Me too had had reached Ethiopia.
Speaker 1: And for little girl students went to the authorities to
Speaker 1: to say me too about one of their teachers. And
Speaker 1: that was the moment where I realized that this was
Speaker 1: so much, so much bigger than um then, than what
Speaker 1: I could have ever imagined then like a Hollywood, Hollywood industry,
Speaker 1: like scandals coming out. This was the world. This was
Speaker 1: just this was this was the world. And they were
Speaker 1: I think it was just ripe for for sharing. And
Speaker 1: I think women were just that up and done. And
Speaker 1: I think that we realized that the way in which
Speaker 1: we had always been made to feel like we were
Speaker 1: in competition with each other, it was like part of
Speaker 1: the whole thing. So we wouldn't communicate around the water
Speaker 1: cool like I just you know there there was so
Speaker 1: much that made so much sense after that, and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I still think we have a long way
Speaker 1: togo mind you right, Well, it's it sounds like it
Speaker 1: was the tipping point, But like many people experienced in
Speaker 1: in business, you accepted the responsibility. You could have just
Speaker 1: said something it went viral and not you know, taken
Speaker 1: that scary wave. You said like I'm gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: call this woman and I'm going to be part of
Speaker 1: this and sort of lead it and and connect. You're
Speaker 1: talking about connection the Ethiopia stories about just women really
Speaker 1: connecting the glue, and that correspondent to communication, making this
Speaker 1: sum greater than its parts. That's exactly right, and knowing that,
Speaker 1: and knowing that we needed we needed that power, right
Speaker 1: and also feeling like, you know, this can't we can't
Speaker 1: just focus on the Harvey Weinstein's right. Oh no, I know,
Speaker 1: it's funny because it's pockets, and it's almost weird that
Speaker 1: it sort of became trendy, like let's just get every comedian,
Speaker 1: let's get every producer, which makes perfect sense. But I
Speaker 1: thought to myself, what about the hedge fund guys, what
Speaker 1: about the sleazy lawyers? Like that, about the sports people?
Speaker 1: Like it's weird that it's got these like pockets, Like
Speaker 1: this is in right now, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Because it was like that. It was like, this is
Speaker 1: the week that we're gonna get Hollywood producers. Next week,
Speaker 1: it's comedians, next week, it's chefs. Like it's funny, and
Speaker 1: it did, and I think that was I think a
Speaker 1: lot of that was that we all gave each other
Speaker 1: the strength right to come out, and you know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to think anybody was, uh you know,
Speaker 1: like it was a trend, like we were all hopping
Speaker 1: on the bandwagon. I just know. I just mean, why
Speaker 1: the lawyer, why what? Because even with the disasters, I
Speaker 1: called them in or not in, which sounds counter and
Speaker 1: do it. But like it's cool to be into Australia
Speaker 1: this week and talk about it when when when koalas
Speaker 1: are covered in gasoline, But next week we're talking about Haiti,
Speaker 1: So like we those animals didn't die last week, Like
Speaker 1: it's very It's just that because it's back to what
Speaker 1: we were talking about ten minutes ago, the cycle of
Speaker 1: news and media and what they'll be covering. But the
Speaker 1: problem still exists when the headlines fade. So so that's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like we didn't talk about we never
Speaker 1: got into hedge fund you know, or business finance guys.
Speaker 1: We just didn't go down that road because the minute
Speaker 1: one pops open, the whole thing will pop open. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's still an industry that you know
Speaker 1: is is really acted by sexism and misogyny. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think it money money exactly. You know, the bigger
Speaker 1: the money, the power up yeah, yeah, Um, that's wild.
Speaker 1: The whole thing is really crazy. Do you, um, you
Speaker 1: know you've more than brushed with politics and been polarizing
Speaker 1: and opinionated and fearless and marching and talking, and um
Speaker 1: do you you don't ride the line? You just always
Speaker 1: I mean it seems like you just have the courage
Speaker 1: of conviction. Um. Is that ever frightening? Is it ever
Speaker 1: frightening as it pertains to your career? Do you ever
Speaker 1: worry about that? And you know what ramifications has that had?
Speaker 1: Like do you play it safe? Do you worry about
Speaker 1: getting canceled? Like that whole bucket of you know, it
Speaker 1: being unpopular now to have an opinion. I hate the
Speaker 1: term getting canceled because I feel like we're not canceling
Speaker 1: people were holding people a pountable for missteps, right, and
Speaker 1: it's usually in a very public manner, And I feel
Speaker 1: like instead of calling people out, we should call people
Speaker 1: in and have these tough conversations. And part of me
Speaker 1: feels really, you know, because the if we're talking about
Speaker 1: like politics, there have been moments in my political activism
Speaker 1: where the left has been just as hard on me
Speaker 1: as the right, maybe even more so because of one
Speaker 1: of their own right, like, and I think that those
Speaker 1: moments are important. And I think being able to to
Speaker 1: have those moments in a very public way and be
Speaker 1: able to say publicly, you know, like Lizzo just went
Speaker 1: did this the other day when there is a word
Speaker 1: in one of her songs that people felt were ablest,
Speaker 1: And she went in and she re recorded the word,
Speaker 1: put out the single again and she said, you know,
Speaker 1: than for the opportunity to learn and grow, I did
Speaker 1: it publicly publicly. Uh that word I used as ablest,
Speaker 1: And I think to be able to do it publicly
Speaker 1: and and I don't even know what that means, ablest
Speaker 1: is like, um, it's it's like when you have prejudice
Speaker 1: against uh, people who have data disabilities. Oh okay, it's
Speaker 1: you know it's yeah, um so yeah. So so you know,
Speaker 1: to be able to do to do it in a
Speaker 1: public way, I think is important because maybe we get
Speaker 1: to set the tone of how to say, you know what,
Speaker 1: you're right, this was, this was not and to do
Speaker 1: so with grace and with an open heart. Um. As
Speaker 1: far as my career goes, like I grew up in
Speaker 1: a different time in this in this industry where we
Speaker 1: didn't really separate our politics with uh, with our work, right.
Speaker 1: It was it was Audrey Hepburn and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Jane Fonda, and it was Patricia Arquette, actually all the
Speaker 1: art kids and um, George Clooney, who was incredibly political,
Speaker 1: politically active, and uh, you know, like big movie starts
Speaker 1: had had political opinions. And I think what happened was
Speaker 1: is that you know, the the the the right started
Speaker 1: to realize that that was something that they could be
Speaker 1: a part of, and so tried to dismiss our opinions
Speaker 1: by saying things like stay in your lane, like you're
Speaker 1: an actress, what do you know? Um? And and honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't know one entertainer who hasn't come from like, no,
Speaker 1: very few entertainers come from entertaining family is or have
Speaker 1: you know? Most of us used or as a way
Speaker 1: to get out of poverty. So most of us have
Speaker 1: really strong opinions about you know, the world. No. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And also like I don't think poor people should have
Speaker 1: to start I don't know, right, Like I just don't
Speaker 1: be coming from a family of you know who who's
Speaker 1: whose grandparents were on food stamps, Like I don't think
Speaker 1: that anyone deserves to to starve and and maybe the
Speaker 1: government should help out for those that are struggling. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just kind of go with it.
Speaker 1: And I think that maybe you know, it's impacted like endorsements, UM,
Speaker 1: it's probably impacted commercial opportunity. UM, But I don't think
Speaker 1: it's you know, I don't think that translates to UM.
Speaker 1: I don't think the year of people who are hiring
Speaker 1: me translates to uh, real life because you know, like
Speaker 1: the like Brazen, which was a movie I did from Netflix,
Speaker 1: which you know, I carried the whole thing, I did
Speaker 1: all the publicity. Um, it was the number one movie
Speaker 1: on Netflix for a long time. So people and globally globally,
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing that people underestimate, is
Speaker 1: that what I'm fighting for people globally understand and so
Speaker 1: they go, oh, like she's she's fighting for you know.
Speaker 1: So it's it's almost like that quote they thought they
Speaker 1: were burying me, but they were really planting a seed. Right. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's deep. That's interesting and so yeah. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: I just I think it's I think, you know, I
Speaker 1: can't separate it. I can't UM. And I started my
Speaker 1: activism started when I was fifteen, when I was on
Speaker 1: like the height of Who's the Boss when it was
Speaker 1: like a top ten show, and um Ryan White, who
Speaker 1: was HIV positive. UH and I became friends and we
Speaker 1: sort of bonded on this idea of being mothered um
Speaker 1: and and he asked if I would go on TV
Speaker 1: with him to kiss him, to prove that you couldn't
Speaker 1: get HIV and from casual contact. And I did that fifteen,
Speaker 1: and you know what, my life changed because I was like,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you you that moment when you realize
Speaker 1: because you do so much at moment when you realize, like, oh,
Speaker 1: like I can actually have an impact here, I can
Speaker 1: actually change things. And once you open Pandora's box and
Speaker 1: you know that you can't unsee what you've seen, you
Speaker 1: can't unknow what you know, and you know that you
Speaker 1: could do it, so you have to do it. You
Speaker 1: have to do it. So that's how I felt since
Speaker 1: I was fifteen years old. That's amazing. It's just continue
Speaker 1: to fight for for those that have no voice, and
Speaker 1: it's been my my most fulfilling work in my life.
Speaker 1: And I think it's more important to me than how
Speaker 1: many endorsements I get or or you know, it's blessed
Speaker 1: to be in that position to be able to say
Speaker 1: that and people come to you because they want you,
Speaker 1: even if it's an issue that's not really something that
Speaker 1: you quote unquote specialize in. You know, like people when
Speaker 1: there's a crisis in Cuba, people were coming to me
Speaker 1: to help when there was nothing we could actually do
Speaker 1: in that situation. Like there's not every single crisis is
Speaker 1: something that I could actually be helpful. And but you've
Speaker 1: all these are great example where people were saying that, obviously,
Speaker 1: it's nothing I can do to help these people's grief.
Speaker 1: And I'm not like you. I'm not that educated in
Speaker 1: gun violence. And that doesn't mean I couldn't become It
Speaker 1: just means it isn't exactly the road that I've taken
Speaker 1: in relief for so we we raised money and distributed
Speaker 1: money for the families, which is a drop in the bucket,
Speaker 1: but just to do something to touch it. But it's
Speaker 1: not not every single thing is something that I dive
Speaker 1: all the way into, because then you would, you know,
Speaker 1: we all have our areas where we're sort of can
Speaker 1: make the greatest impact. And it sounds like you have
Speaker 1: really found doors and people probably rely on you and
Speaker 1: when something happens, they want you to do something about it,
Speaker 1: even if it's you know, something that you may not
Speaker 1: even necessarily do per se. Yeah, And I think the
Speaker 1: most rewarding part of it for me is is like,
Speaker 1: you know, going going to take a class and really
Speaker 1: trying to understand, Like after me too happened. I took
Speaker 1: a feminist class from you see Santa Cruz because I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't even know really what the history
Speaker 1: of women's rights. I mean, I know about like the
Speaker 1: monumental moments right like you know Ruby Wade, I know, um,
Speaker 1: you know the e R A and the nineteam Amendment
Speaker 1: and all of that, but I don't I didn't really
Speaker 1: understand the history of abortion. Um. And so that's the
Speaker 1: stuff that I don't know. If you could keep learning,
Speaker 1: that's exciting, yeah, you know. And when when I was
Speaker 1: fighting against gun violence, um, after Parkland, I took a
Speaker 1: class about the constitution because I was like, if I'm
Speaker 1: going to fight and people are going to use the
Speaker 1: Second Amendment as the argument for guns, I better figure
Speaker 1: out what the argument is constitutionally against the guns. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, I take a lot of pride, and I
Speaker 1: think that that's why people trust me. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why organizations and grassroots organizations that are on the
Speaker 1: ground and ask me for help, is because I actually
Speaker 1: do try really hard to understand that issue. Um and
Speaker 1: and and I trust people who are closest to the
Speaker 1: pain m to teach me. I love that. I love
Speaker 1: that I didn't know that, and I think that's great
Speaker 1: and that makes a lot of sense because there are
Speaker 1: a lot of things that I'd like to do. It's
Speaker 1: hard to find the time to do everything. But this,
Speaker 1: this recent tragedy was really it was it was crazy,
Speaker 1: just like Sandy Sandy hook um, which just certain things
Speaker 1: like really hit you in your lifetime. And it's just
Speaker 1: been a horrible, horrible, horrible thing to even I mean
Speaker 1: that we that we live in a country where are
Speaker 1: quote unquote Second Amendment rights right to bear arms. People
Speaker 1: like to ignore the well regulated part of the Second Amendment,
Speaker 1: but that you know, the fact that we live in
Speaker 1: a time where it seems as though that is more
Speaker 1: important than a baby's life. It's crazy, a technical technicality,
Speaker 1: it's devastating. It it's horrible. UM. So I thought, in
Speaker 1: reading about you remember I'm I just do research and
Speaker 1: look up things online. I don't know, and maybe they're
Speaker 1: not all true. So in um, you not relaying a name,
Speaker 1: that's an interesting choice. I understand it, and I want
Speaker 1: to know. Is that about that it was a different
Speaker 1: time and not ruining someone's life? Is it about not
Speaker 1: wanting to like? What is it? What's what's? Would you
Speaker 1: make that choice today? Do you still make that choice that?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't understand that whole topic, and
Speaker 1: I want to kind of understand it. We're talking about
Speaker 1: this is about your abewser right, the situation on a
Speaker 1: movie where someone took advantage of you the producer. The
Speaker 1: producer didn't protect you, but whoever the successful person was,
Speaker 1: who as a full life you didn't quote unquote out
Speaker 1: them correct? And I think, I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: it's it's up to the woman, like how much they
Speaker 1: want to share about trauma right and in their own
Speaker 1: time for their own reasons. I think is how much
Speaker 1: or how little or whatever feels right, you know? And
Speaker 1: I think that naming someone is has got to be
Speaker 1: about like what what the survivor is comfortable with with
Speaker 1: opening up? And I think for me instead of naming someone.
Speaker 1: It was more important for me to kind of work
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. And what what I've been doing is
Speaker 1: working with SAG after on the Sexual Harassment Committee, um,
Speaker 1: to try to protect women in the future from that
Speaker 1: ever happening again. But you know this, this person has
Speaker 1: a family, and I just I didn't feel like it
Speaker 1: was I had the strength or or the understanding of
Speaker 1: how to even come forward and name him. Like I
Speaker 1: knew I could come forward and stand in solidarity with
Speaker 1: with women who had experienced this, but I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't and I still don't feel like I can name him.
Speaker 1: Do you think do you have any indication that he
Speaker 1: knows that it's him and that for sure, Oh, he
Speaker 1: knows it's him. And has he ever apologized or has
Speaker 1: there been any closure in any way or acknowledgement? No? No,
Speaker 1: but he has been caught um in in other uncompromising positions,
Speaker 1: so um yeah, so um, you know, I think serial
Speaker 1: abusers or cereal abusers and um and look, I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm trying to live my life with as much grace
Speaker 1: as possible and trying to heal and I just didn't
Speaker 1: feel like I don't feel like that would be uh,
Speaker 1: indicative of of who I am. Interesting. Interesting, Interesting. I
Speaker 1: was trying to put myself in that position and thinking
Speaker 1: about that, um, and we do so much so publicly
Speaker 1: now it's like it's like nothing is Is that what
Speaker 1: the whole thing was about with Harvey and all these
Speaker 1: people and and them being sort of Didn't that mean
Speaker 1: that they all had to take accountability? Doesn't the person
Speaker 1: not take accountability if they don't get quote unquote caught.
Speaker 1: I think that what what all of it was about
Speaker 1: is showing society that this is a real issue. Only
Speaker 1: one percent of humans don't get away with it. So
Speaker 1: and I think that's why women don't report, right. It's
Speaker 1: because it's always he said, she said thing, And I
Speaker 1: think it's got to be a woman's got to really
Speaker 1: think it's it's right to be able to come forward,
Speaker 1: um and name someone. But I think the beauty of
Speaker 1: me too is that we didn't have to name people.
Speaker 1: We could just show the power and numbers and people
Speaker 1: could say it's I mean, you know, I was getting
Speaker 1: phone calls like my friend from twenty five years and
Speaker 1: I had no idea. My best friend just called me
Speaker 1: and said me too, and I had no clue. You know,
Speaker 1: And I think that that was the important thing of it,
Speaker 1: is that society couldn't look away because the numbers were
Speaker 1: so colossal, right, and that's definitely prevented it that that
Speaker 1: is obviously preventative. Oh yeah, and and now we get
Speaker 1: to write policy, we get to legislate, we get to um,
Speaker 1: you know, hold hold men accountable and other other industries. Um.
Speaker 1: And so I think you know, me, me naming the
Speaker 1: person who abused me, it wasn't wasn't going to propel
Speaker 1: all of that and probably just just it would be
Speaker 1: about that, not about the whole thing. Yeah, And I'm
Speaker 1: by the way, how are we sick of it? Of
Speaker 1: the these stories being about the perpetrators and not like
Speaker 1: the survivors or the victims. And that was the power
Speaker 1: of of me too? Is it took the focus away
Speaker 1: from Harvey Weinstein and everything he had to lose. Like
Speaker 1: if I had to watch one more news segment of
Speaker 1: you know, how do you Weinstein losing his business or
Speaker 1: losing his and like, okay, how about how about the
Speaker 1: women who lost their entire careers in the prime of
Speaker 1: their careers in an industry that's not kind to women
Speaker 1: after a certain age how about how about we shift
Speaker 1: the narrative a little bit. Right, Well, I can't help
Speaker 1: but think you must have been you must have had
Speaker 1: some emotional reaction to the whole Johnny depth Amber heard
Speaker 1: trial right, like you know, must have had ups and downs.
Speaker 1: I mean I was very vocal about thinking, like you know,
Speaker 1: it was interesting. He was made to be this sort
Speaker 1: of hero during that process, which I thought was misguided.
Speaker 1: She was made she was, I don't mean made to
Speaker 1: be I don't I don't know the truth. There's this
Speaker 1: his hers and then the truth. I don't know how
Speaker 1: much media played. I don't know how much she lied
Speaker 1: or didn't it lie. But I'm saying that what came
Speaker 1: out was that he was God and she was a liar.
Speaker 1: And I wonder how someone you know, a the feeling
Speaker 1: that you have about Oh well, if if she was lying,
Speaker 1: then that set this whole thing back. If she was
Speaker 1: telling any version of the truth and he got away
Speaker 1: with this because he's a public person, then that's like,
Speaker 1: I just want to know the whole stup that. Obviously
Speaker 1: you're not a wizard. You don't know exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: You watched what was shown. I think I think movements
Speaker 1: are messy. I don't think that there is one like
Speaker 1: linear line to get to where we're trying to get to.
Speaker 1: I mean, that was definitely there are articles right about it.
Speaker 1: That was definitely a moment about and abused, an alleged
Speaker 1: alleged abused person coming out and people thinking one thing
Speaker 1: for all these years. Then the pendulum totally swinging right
Speaker 1: after a time where being a you know, a white
Speaker 1: man in this country is not that popular, you know,
Speaker 1: so like then all it just is interesting. They've they've
Speaker 1: had their rain, you know what I mean, right, they
Speaker 1: had plenty of time, right, Yeah, But no, no, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think I think we often look for
Speaker 1: people at people like, uh, you know, people who are
Speaker 1: quote unquote movement leaders for our opinions on things, And
Speaker 1: I don't know that I necessarily have formulated what that
Speaker 1: opinion is. And I also don't think it's fair to
Speaker 1: put that on women, right, and one case and one case,
Speaker 1: but also women like it's not fair to look to
Speaker 1: Toronto Burke and for all of the answers, you know.
Speaker 1: And I was getting calls from NBC News in the
Speaker 1: Washington Post and it's like, look, I don't know I
Speaker 1: don't know, and I think it's okay for us to
Speaker 1: say that. Obviously, that's a very sad situation, and I
Speaker 1: would definitely not want any of my friends to date
Speaker 1: either one of them, thank you, because the water seeks
Speaker 1: its own level. Like this is like I literally said,
Speaker 1: he's the second Coming because he's compared to her. This
Speaker 1: is not this is fit the shades of ship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I said, this is like, you know, because Drew Barry
Speaker 1: were got in trouble for saying it was a seven
Speaker 1: layer different Santiday. I'm like, she was, she was? It was?
Speaker 1: She correct in sane it was a fifty seven layer
Speaker 1: different sety like, well, well, yeah, I think I think
Speaker 1: there's a movement to start to not use it. I
Speaker 1: think she got in trouble because she was using the
Speaker 1: word insane in a way that was deroga. So you know,
Speaker 1: word words, words have weight. Um, a different generation obviously,
Speaker 1: but yeah, so I don't know, and I'm still standing
Speaker 1: by it. I think it was instead, I think the
Speaker 1: whole thing was actually, these are not sane behavior. So
Speaker 1: I actually am sticking with my fifty seven layers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think this is all really tragic and awful and um,
Speaker 1: but can we just stop looking at women to have
Speaker 1: all the right answers, Like there's no movement that is perfect,
Speaker 1: like we like, there's there's nothing that does not have
Speaker 1: highs and lows. I mean when you're when you look,
Speaker 1: especially women's movements, when there is a an entire your
Speaker 1: system trying to knock us off a trajectory of equality
Speaker 1: and sustainability and um, and when you look at that,
Speaker 1: you we're gonna get bumped off the you know, to
Speaker 1: use a hockey term term, We're gonna get bumped off
Speaker 1: the puck quite a bit, right because because you know,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a system at work that white men
Speaker 1: in particular are benefiting from. Yeah, it's been going on
Speaker 1: for a long time and hundreds of years, and they're
Speaker 1: all in shock now. They literally are on shock. Um,
Speaker 1: there's definitely a stunted nature right now in many cases,
Speaker 1: but many many are just acting us out in the
Speaker 1: same way. It's just an interesting it's an interesting dynamic. Um.
Speaker 1: Do you so you're you've been public about uh dyslexia
Speaker 1: and how does that affect you on you? Are you
Speaker 1: involved in causes about it about like talking about children
Speaker 1: and awareness and schools et cetera, because I know that's
Speaker 1: one of that's and I was reading, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: she had a car crash last year, she's dyslexic, she
Speaker 1: had two abortions with Scott Well, Like, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: this woman has you know she she kind of kicked
Speaker 1: off the meto movement, like it was not what I
Speaker 1: was expecting from, you know, the girl I watched on
Speaker 1: Who's the Boss? Like, honestly, you know, I mean I
Speaker 1: was like, whoa, there's a lot here with you in
Speaker 1: in a very interesting way, but you're a strong bitch. Uh.
Speaker 1: The dyslexia, I mean yeah, Like I I advocate for
Speaker 1: children who learned differently. You know, I don't think of
Speaker 1: it as a learning disability. I think of it as
Speaker 1: a learning difference. And I think that, um uh, it
Speaker 1: is important for me to show that you can, uh,
Speaker 1: you can have everything and be successful and still have
Speaker 1: a learning difference. Yeah. I also think it's shaped really
Speaker 1: who I am because I think that not only have
Speaker 1: I had to overcompensate for my brain seeing things in
Speaker 1: a different way, but also, um, I had to sort
Speaker 1: of overcompensate with the stigma that comes attached to having
Speaker 1: a learning difference. So I think part of my you know,
Speaker 1: need and desire to continue learning and educating myself is
Speaker 1: partly due to the fact that, you know, people maybe
Speaker 1: think that people with learning differences or not smart. N
Speaker 1: that's where I haven't heard that either. It's a couple
Speaker 1: of words I haven't heard. I haven't heard learned. I
Speaker 1: haven't heard any words that sort of identify someone as
Speaker 1: a complete like that that's their identity. So meaning you
Speaker 1: want to say someone with a disability instead of a
Speaker 1: disabled person, because saying someone's disabled means that that's their
Speaker 1: entire identity. And also, if you think about how we
Speaker 1: learn about you're right, it means they are not able,
Speaker 1: like as a like. It's not it's not just one
Speaker 1: thing that is part of their whole thing. It's a
Speaker 1: great because I did not know that, he doesn't know
Speaker 1: that it's his own. Yeah, that's interesting. So like prisoner,
Speaker 1: you would never say prisoner, you would say someone who
Speaker 1: is imprisoned. UM. There's a movement right now to change
Speaker 1: the word homeless to unhoused. UM. Instead of saying a slave,
Speaker 1: you say the enslaved. So you're you're keeping their humanity
Speaker 1: and you know, it doesn't become about who they completely are.
Speaker 1: But by the way, isn't this a good book for you?
Speaker 1: Like you could do it. You could do a chapter
Speaker 1: on each just one of these terms, with like a
Speaker 1: story or many stories, or like a background and what
Speaker 1: they mean, what they should. Yeah, I think my book
Speaker 1: is you know like that. Um. Yeah, it's a book
Speaker 1: of essays about just my my activism and how I've
Speaker 1: misstepped many times saying the wrong thing. And that's why
Speaker 1: I think it's important to just have the conversation. Like
Speaker 1: what you just did was so filled with Gray's like
Speaker 1: I don't you know you were like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what this word means. I don't know how I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to say this. And I think the more we have
Speaker 1: those conversations and the more we get to learned from
Speaker 1: each other. And um, but again, my gold, that's interesting
Speaker 1: because most people wouldn't say Most people think they're going
Speaker 1: to feel stupid if they don't know what something is,
Speaker 1: and then they'll end up saying the wrong thing and
Speaker 1: then they'll actually be stupid, Like you know, you just
Speaker 1: said a word able iss. I'm I'm a very smart,
Speaker 1: successful woman. So you said that most people would just
Speaker 1: let it roll and be like, I don't know what
Speaker 1: you meant by that, but what if it happens every day.
Speaker 1: I don't know what something means. I mean, it could
Speaker 1: be something really ridiculous in like TikTok, but not knowing
Speaker 1: what a fit is. I didn't know for to Remance
Speaker 1: what that was an outfit. But it could be something
Speaker 1: really important, like the word able us. Literally. I'm a
Speaker 1: big believer. I'm a big believer of calling in instead
Speaker 1: of calling out. And I think that we need to
Speaker 1: get comfortable with having uncomfortable conversations, Like we need to
Speaker 1: get comfortable with feeling uncomfortable. And my golden rule desany
Speaker 1: is to listen to the people who are closest to
Speaker 1: the pain. You know, I've had so many conversations with
Speaker 1: people I love who are like, oh, like I can't
Speaker 1: it's it's it's like the woke Olympics. I can't even
Speaker 1: think about, Like this too much to think about. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, but like if someone who had experienced
Speaker 1: this was telling you that's hurtful, you have to listen
Speaker 1: to those that are closest to the pain. That's a great,
Speaker 1: it's great, that's really good, really fine so what is
Speaker 1: your family life like I've read you live, you have
Speaker 1: a bunch of animals around, you have a lot of
Speaker 1: at your own zoo at your house. I mean, what's
Speaker 1: your what's your home life like? You're married? I'm married.
Speaker 1: I've been married for am was fifteen years. Is he
Speaker 1: still an agent and we allowed to talk about she's
Speaker 1: not an agent. He started a management company called Range Media,
Speaker 1: so he's a manager, producer creator. Now. Um, we have
Speaker 1: two children, ten and seven. My little boys ten, and
Speaker 1: I have a little girl who's seven. Um, and I
Speaker 1: live on five acres with nine horses and five dogs
Speaker 1: and eight chickens and two bunnies. And my my brother
Speaker 1: and his wife and and my nephew lived two minutes away,
Speaker 1: and my parents live five minutes away. And it's a
Speaker 1: very um sort of close community family, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: picking up each other's kids and just kind of doing it.
Speaker 1: Were a village trying to make at work. But you
Speaker 1: made a choice to live a suburban life but still
Speaker 1: be nearer the mix. So I did the same thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it was important for me once,
Speaker 1: especially once I had kids. I don't want my kids
Speaker 1: to go to like, you know, private schools where there
Speaker 1: were lots of rich industry kids that don't understand like
Speaker 1: real life. Um okay. And then I guess the last
Speaker 1: question I want to ask you was, uh, your rose
Speaker 1: and your thorn of your career? My rose and my
Speaker 1: thorn of my career. I mean, I think we could
Speaker 1: be the same, by the way sometimes they are. I
Speaker 1: think my low was like after his boss was over
Speaker 1: and I didn't know if I was going to ever
Speaker 1: work again or what that meant, and so I did,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of nudity in films to try
Speaker 1: to like get people. I don't know that I was
Speaker 1: doing this consciously at the time, but to sort of
Speaker 1: break the the idea that I was this, you know
Speaker 1: girl next door, that that could only be a sitcom kid. Um.
Speaker 1: So I would say that that was And it wasn't
Speaker 1: really low. It was just like, I don't know what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. You really it wasn't necessary. Well, looking back,
Speaker 1: maybe it was necessary, but I just didn't do that.
Speaker 1: Did it actually do that? I don't know. Maybe maybe
Speaker 1: that's why I still have a career. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just know I just know it felt icky while
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of it. You know, I
Speaker 1: just felt like it just wasn't coming, but it did.
Speaker 1: It is your rose too, because you wouldn't have had
Speaker 1: all these me too, this this institution. That's true. That's
Speaker 1: absolutely true. Um And I would say my rose is
Speaker 1: maybe happening right now. I feel like this is a
Speaker 1: really nice time from my life and career and writing
Speaker 1: a lot and getting to develop. Well, it was like,
Speaker 1: it's happening right now. Yes, it's that that too, that too,
Speaker 1: that too. We wouldn't be happening this conversation if I
Speaker 1: wasn't in in you know, a good place in my
Speaker 1: life and my career. And and you know, I've admired
Speaker 1: so much what you've been able to do in the
Speaker 1: way that you have used your power and your wealth,
Speaker 1: uh and your knowledge to change people's lives. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so right now my career, I'm I'm developing a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of shows and getting to be creative,
Speaker 1: and um, I feel like it's a much more it's
Speaker 1: much more reflective of who I am as a person
Speaker 1: than than my acting career. I love acting, but it
Speaker 1: it feels like that's that's only utilizing a small part
Speaker 1: of my capacity and so um so to be able
Speaker 1: to sit down and write a script, or to sit
Speaker 1: down and work with producers and produce or re a
Speaker 1: book and say, you know what, I'm gonna buy the
Speaker 1: rights to this book and adapt it. That's all really
Speaker 1: exciting stuff for me. And maybe maybe like I needed
Speaker 1: to get to this point, uh the way I got
Speaker 1: to it, but I kind of wish I'd gotten to
Speaker 1: it a little bit earlier. Got there's a freedom in
Speaker 1: the room where your career is in an honestly where
Speaker 1: it is now. Yeah, and it's and it's comfortable. Acting
Speaker 1: to me is very uncomfortable. It's it's I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I work very hard to like heal the parts of
Speaker 1: me that are wounded, and then to have to go
Speaker 1: to set and like open back up those wounded parts
Speaker 1: in order to cry in a scene or it's not,
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not conducive to like healing. You're constantly
Speaker 1: like picking at the scab when you're an actor, and
Speaker 1: the good actors are the ones that are like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I can't I can't do this anymore. It's
Speaker 1: it's hurtful, like Daniel dan Lewis, who was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I can't keep going like I'm losing myself
Speaker 1: because I'm I go so hardcore into someone else. Right. Wow,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Bethany, Thanks for always nice to
Speaker 1: thank you to you give me so much hope. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I have to say I do not know what to
Speaker 1: expect from Melissa Milano. I knew I wasn't going to
Speaker 1: be speaking to a former child actress. I knew i'd
Speaker 1: be speaking to an activist. But I just want to
Speaker 1: say that she was amazing, Like that was a great conversation.
Speaker 1: I had the best time. I thought she was fun, funny, open,
Speaker 1: I learned things. I think what she's doing is great.
Speaker 1: I think she's educated. I think she doesn't speak about
Speaker 1: things she doesn't understand. So whether you agree with her
Speaker 1: opinions or not, it doesn't really matter. She she has
Speaker 1: a reason to have an opinion because she's she's done
Speaker 1: her research on whatever is she's passionate about. I thought
Speaker 1: she was terrific. And yes, actors and actresses do get
Speaker 1: sort of pigeonholed into, you know, stay in your own lane,
Speaker 1: which she said, and I think it's great that she's
Speaker 1: not in her own lane. I think it's great that
Speaker 1: she's in every lane because she's allowed to be in
Speaker 1: every lane because she's a person. So I thought that
Speaker 1: was a great conversation and I think it's amazing. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to today's episode. I'm going
Speaker 1: down to Miami to shoot a new and exciting business
Speaker 1: show over the fourth of July holiday, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to tell you about that really soon. We're going to
Speaker 1: take a week break, so always please rate and subscribe.
Speaker 1: It really does mean a lot to me, and I
Speaker 1: do read all of the reviews, so please keep them coming.
Speaker 1: Have a safe and fun Fourth of July, and I'll
Speaker 1: see you back here for more. Just be soon with
Speaker 1: more fun Rant's interviews and some new exciting announcements.