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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to twenty four,

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Speaker 1: episode three of Days I See production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: This is a podcast where we take a deep dive

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Speaker 1: into America's shared consciousness. It is Wednesday, February six, which,

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Speaker 1: of course, Miles means that it is National almondst Day.

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Speaker 1: About damn time. Do yourself a favor and don't read

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Speaker 1: how much water it takes to squeeze feeling like I'm

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Speaker 1: eating that. That's the closest I ever come to eating

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Speaker 1: wood is an almond. Little I remember when I caught

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Speaker 1: you eating those little wooden pegs that give you an

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Speaker 1: I Q like, okay, not the Yeah, I guess there's

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Speaker 1: also other times when I just eat straight up wood. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We always like strong my teeth are, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that's not a way to prove that, but okay, chew

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Speaker 1: on my man. Not just the teeth, the digestive system

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Speaker 1: also very strong. I can I can takedown all right. Well,

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Speaker 1: my name is Jack O'Brien ak Cowabunga. We are brothers.

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Speaker 1: We are living within the sewers. Our visitors, I'll say,

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Speaker 1: oh you're place. The smell just made my nosebleed. Pizza

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Speaker 1: boxes overflowing. We don't mind. We are just turtles living

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Speaker 1: in within what is firtile. Even Master Slennard can see

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Speaker 1: this place is gross and he's a fucking rat. That

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Speaker 1: is courtesy of I like doing the dumbest a k

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Speaker 1: s and not dumb like in a bad sense, dumb

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Speaker 1: in the well done serves when we have our most

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Speaker 1: prestigious guests songs. That's courtesy of at Romhantok. Shout out

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Speaker 1: to you and I'm thrilled to be joined as always

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Speaker 1: buy my co host Mr Miles Grass, Miles Gray, a

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Speaker 1: k a k Experimental Black and these artist Yo boy

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Speaker 1: kassama a k A the Valley Legend hit Dyoh NoHo

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Speaker 1: a K. Mr Her Majesty had that one on there.

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Speaker 1: Yea yeah, in my in my honeymoon phase, my wedding bliss, Carrie, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: congratulations again, thank you. I'm gonna keep saying that he

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Speaker 1: looks great. You look yeah. What can I say? You

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Speaker 1: know when I honestly agree with you. I think it's

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Speaker 1: the lack of wedding stress that has contributed to me

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Speaker 1: looking like like I have a glow to me, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? Because I was not handling my

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Speaker 1: wedding stress, well at all. People didn't know that on Mike,

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Speaker 1: but Jack, you remember that week before I left, I

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Speaker 1: was like, is it normal to be completely afraid out

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Speaker 1: of your mind that you don't know if you're making

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Speaker 1: a terrible decision or you're so confused about everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the process leading up to the wedding can be very difficult.

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Speaker 1: You did had you had a nosebleed for two weeks

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Speaker 1: in a row. It was just NonStop. It was pretty wild.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, anyways, great to have you. My mom says,

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Speaker 1: because I picked my nose too much, right, you do

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Speaker 1: do that kind of get the get those fingers out

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Speaker 1: of there. Well, Miles, We're thrilled to be joined in

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Speaker 1: our third see by an American civil rights lawyer, social

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Speaker 1: justice advocate, co founder of Equal Justice under Law, and

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Speaker 1: founder and executive director of Civil Rights Court. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: he's a great follow on Twitter. That is the most

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Speaker 1: important thing. Please welcome the brilliant and talented Alec carrikatsnics going.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, good man. Your appearance has been

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Speaker 1: teased by me talking about your Twitter threads for a

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Speaker 1: couple of a couple of weeks. Now I discovered you

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Speaker 1: during the great train robbery panic of Los Angeles from

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. And uh, man, you're you're

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Speaker 1: doing great work. You're doing the Lord's work out there.

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Speaker 1: What what's good? You did? You were just out in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles presumably robbing some trains. I wanted to see

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Speaker 1: the trauma that you all are experiencing from the train

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Speaker 1: robberies first hand. So I came out there and looked

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Speaker 1: at the devastation. And I have to day, I've been

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Speaker 1: worried about climate change and the lack of housing and healthcare,

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Speaker 1: and rising domestic and global fascism, but I have to say,

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Speaker 1: after my trip to l A, I'm now most concerned

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Speaker 1: about whether the profits of the major train corporations and

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Speaker 1: monopolies are are are going to take a hit from

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Speaker 1: this train theft. Yeah. I mean those those Amazon boxes

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Speaker 1: just scattered everywhere. What the what the hey? It's certainly

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Speaker 1: what the Los Angeles media wanted me to be concerned

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Speaker 1: about that in shoplifting. Absolutely, yeah, those are I I

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Speaker 1: when I enter a write aid or a CBS these days,

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Speaker 1: I always go, I do the buddy system. I bring

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Speaker 1: a fellow consumer and we're just going back to back

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Speaker 1: like double dragon with our with our dukes up, just

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Speaker 1: making sure, you know, our heads are on a swivel,

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Speaker 1: making sure nobody steals a three pack of old spice deodorant.

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Speaker 1: That's right, you know where the real moneys at. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, So we're gonna get to know you a

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Speaker 1: little bit better in a moment. But first we'll tell

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Speaker 1: our listeners a couple of things we're talking about, mainly

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Speaker 1: that mainly that stuff. I wanted to have you on

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Speaker 1: to kind of dig into some of the details. We

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Speaker 1: have a news story coming out of California that crime

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Speaker 1: is out of control according to polling people, according to people.

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Speaker 1: So I think I think that whole you know, media

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Speaker 1: strategy from the police has taken a toll. So I

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Speaker 1: want to I want to just dig into that, dig

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Speaker 1: into the shoplifting and train theft crises. And also, you

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Speaker 1: know Eric Adams's drill Rap band that he's proposing. You

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Speaker 1: had a back and forth with somebody who's who's on

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Speaker 1: board with that, and I just I thought it wasn't

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Speaker 1: It was instructive in terms of like how this conversation

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Speaker 1: is had, how how these arguments are had in in

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Speaker 1: modern America. And then if we get to it. I

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Speaker 1: also want to talk about the convoy, the latest and

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Speaker 1: the convoys story. Trudeau has invoked the Emergencies Act to

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Speaker 1: stop the conboy. But before we get to all that,

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Speaker 1: like we do like to ask our guest, what is

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Speaker 1: something from your search history. This is kind of embarrassing,

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Speaker 1: but I was looking at the last thing just now

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Speaker 1: that I searched, and it was best glue for wine corks.

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Speaker 1: I've been collecting thousands of wine corks from friends and

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Speaker 1: family for years and I'm trying to make a big

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Speaker 1: mosaic out of them. I like to do a lot

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Speaker 1: of big paintings in my sort of doing. Art is

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Speaker 1: one of the ways I cope with the really painful

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Speaker 1: and difficult work that we do around the country with

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Speaker 1: with people who are confined in jail cells all over

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Speaker 1: the country, and the work can be really difficult and stressful,

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Speaker 1: and one of the ways I just personally cope is

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Speaker 1: making art. And I now have been asking everyone I

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Speaker 1: know to collect wine corks for me, and I have

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Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of them, but I have no idea

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Speaker 1: how to actually make them into anything. So I was

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to actually glue them together.

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Speaker 1: What do you think? What do you mean? What are

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Speaker 1: what are we talking? You're like you would paint each

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Speaker 1: one and sort of mosaic get out, or you're trying

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Speaker 1: to use the natural graphics on the cork to inform

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Speaker 1: how you get your image or what you know? Walk

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Speaker 1: walk me through this process. I've been paying I paint

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Speaker 1: each one and make them into sort of a colorful mosaic,

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Speaker 1: usually depicting like some poem that I like or some

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Speaker 1: aspect of the work that we do. So, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: maybe not the best use of my time, but I

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Speaker 1: think the consensus seems to be a glue gunk. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, there we go glue gun when in doubt,

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Speaker 1: it does feel like the glue gun is always is

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Speaker 1: always good option. Like is there anything that a glue

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Speaker 1: gun does not glue like, does not work on? Is

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Speaker 1: my question? I mean, something that you need to guarantee,

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Speaker 1: like structural integrity of you know, like crafting. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it's fine, but do you you know, do you repair

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Speaker 1: a baby's high chair, you know, with a glue gun?

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Speaker 1: I don't know about that one. I do, but I

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Speaker 1: mean that's just me just because I'm I'm wild with

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Speaker 1: a glue gun. Do you remember when you're old enough

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Speaker 1: to use a glue gun? That felt like a like

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Speaker 1: the first like driver's license you get as a child,

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Speaker 1: where it's like, man, you can't funk with this blug

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Speaker 1: because that metal tip will burn the ship out of you.

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Speaker 1: And then at a certain point it's like you are

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Speaker 1: acknowledged as a child who is responsible enough to use

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Speaker 1: a glue gun. And I felt that was a I

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Speaker 1: don't know, a big point turning point for me. I

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Speaker 1: keep that thing on me, man, that the glue gun.

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Speaker 1: I got it holstered ready to go at all times.

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Speaker 1: You never know when you might need to make a

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Speaker 1: cool little doll out of corn husks or something. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So can you speak a little bit about the work

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Speaker 1: that you do the like while you're like what you

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Speaker 1: were actually out in l a doing. Yeah. We we

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Speaker 1: are civil rights lawyers and advocates and and storytellers and

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Speaker 1: and experts about the criminal punishment system in this country,

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Speaker 1: and the bulk of our work over the last few

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Speaker 1: years since been suing cities and counties and states and

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Speaker 1: judges and prosecutors, sheriffs, police over sort of the rampant

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Speaker 1: unconstitutional like conduct they engage in every single day all

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Speaker 1: over the country. So, for example, as you and I

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Speaker 1: are talking right now, there are four hundred to five

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand people depending on how you count, in cages

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Speaker 1: in this country, solely because they can't afford to pay

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Speaker 1: a cash payment to get out. These are people who

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Speaker 1: are presumptively innocent. They're awaiting trial, they're supposed to be

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Speaker 1: presumed innocent, and because their families don't have enough cash

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Speaker 1: to keep them with their kids and their schools and

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Speaker 1: their homes and their families and their jobs and their

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Speaker 1: churches and their community, they're stuck in a cage. And

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Speaker 1: so we have filed lawsuits all over the country. Last year,

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Speaker 1: I argued a case that we brought in California that's

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Speaker 1: struck down the money bail system in California as we

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Speaker 1: know it. On behalf of our client Kindeth Humphrey, and

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Speaker 1: so we've been doing a lot of work with people

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Speaker 1: who have been directly harmed by the prison and jail

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Speaker 1: system in California, advocates, public defenders, organizers, crime survivors, and

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Speaker 1: others to try to figure out, like how to reshape

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Speaker 1: the pre trial system in California and we do similar

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Speaker 1: work all over the country, basically trying to resensitize our

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Speaker 1: society to the extraor ordinary and senseless violence that the

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Speaker 1: criminal punishment bureaucracy just inflicts on people with absolutely no

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Speaker 1: evidence that it does any good or makes anyone any safer. Right,

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Speaker 1: And that seems to be the biggest thing that whether

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Speaker 1: it's like overtly being debated or subconsciously being debated, that

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Speaker 1: seems to be the thing that many people are having

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Speaker 1: a reckoning with, especially in California, is the idea of like,

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Speaker 1: I just feel like maybe we just need to be

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Speaker 1: cruel to people, so I read less stories about shoplifting

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Speaker 1: or that you know, there's no acknowledgment, you know, like

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Speaker 1: the work that it takes to try and go up

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Speaker 1: against something like the prison industrial complex, and you know

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Speaker 1: what what that entails. Well, a really basic thing that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people just don't seem to understand is

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Speaker 1: that if police and prisons and prosecutors made people safer,

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Speaker 1: then the U. S would have the safest society in

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Speaker 1: the history of the world. I mean, we cage people

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Speaker 1: at rates that are five to ten times every other

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Speaker 1: comparable country. We cage people, We cage black people at

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Speaker 1: a rate six times out of South Africa at the

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Speaker 1: height of apartheid. So if human caging and punishment and

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Speaker 1: police and surveillance and batons and tasers and guns, if

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Speaker 1: all that stuff made people safer, we would have an

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Speaker 1: extraordinarily safe society. And yet we spend by far the

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Speaker 1: most money on armed government bureaucrats of any country in

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Speaker 1: the world, and those armed government bureaucrats specifically target very

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Speaker 1: poor people in communities all over this country, and they

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Speaker 1: have a terrible track record of improving public safety. And

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Speaker 1: so I think it's it's a really important thing to

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Speaker 1: keep pointing out to people that essentially every other society

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Speaker 1: in the world has figured out ways of having lower

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Speaker 1: levels of violence with lower expenditures on things like handcuffs,

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Speaker 1: cages and prosecutors and cops. Right, yeah, because I think

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Speaker 1: in our way of thinking, it's like, well, what's the problem,

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Speaker 1: all right, spend money on it, rather than taking a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a wider view, like, well, what's driving crime?

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Speaker 1: Because that's the one thing I always see absent with

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Speaker 1: a lot of reporting around things like crime rates going up.

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Speaker 1: It's like crimes up, man, it's out of control, and

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Speaker 1: we got to get rid of these d A s,

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Speaker 1: and it's never I've I've yet to read like a

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Speaker 1: or here a real sincere analysis of what crime even

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Speaker 1: is in this country. And I think that's a huge

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Speaker 1: blind spot. I think a lot of people have as well.

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Speaker 1: In the discourse. There's a lot of powerful people who

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Speaker 1: also are making a lot of money. Who I want

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Speaker 1: you asking questions like, well, shouldn't we just be having

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Speaker 1: shouldn't we just be spending more money on more technology

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Speaker 1: for cops and more stuff for prosecutors and more prison beds,

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Speaker 1: and you know that will help the union, the correction

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Speaker 1: officers union, right, But they don't want you asking are

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Speaker 1: things like should we pay attention to the research that

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Speaker 1: shows that like having a stable place to live and

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Speaker 1: having healthcare, mental health treatment, having good schools, having less inequality,

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Speaker 1: having less starvation and poverty, those are actually the things

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Speaker 1: that are correlated with violence and harm. But they don't

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Speaker 1: want you asking those questions because that solution to so

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Speaker 1: called violent crime would actually require deep investments in changing

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Speaker 1: the levels of inequality in our society, and that's not

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Speaker 1: something that most of the powerful politicians who control these

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Speaker 1: narratives are actually interested in. Doing right. What's what's something

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Speaker 1: you think is overrated? I think the police are very overrated.

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Speaker 1: You know, they have all this propaganda. I think maybe

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Speaker 1: that the police in the New York Times are probably

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Speaker 1: the two most overrated institutions in our society. You've got

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Speaker 1: police who claim that they're all about violent crime. They

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Speaker 1: they are incredibly bad and actually solving or preventing violent crime,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, they only spend four percent of all

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Speaker 1: their time, and what they call violent crime, I mean

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Speaker 1: of the rest of their time is just spent on

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Speaker 1: on things like marijuana, driving on suspended license for people

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Speaker 1: that have unpaid debt. Right, there's eleven million people with

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Speaker 1: driver's license to suspend it just because they owe debts.

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Speaker 1: That's the number one arrest in most of the places

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Speaker 1: that I've seen across the country, many of the places

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Speaker 1: in across the country, combined with disorderly conduct and trespassing

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Speaker 1: by homeless people. This is what police actually are doing, right,

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Speaker 1: And so to the extent you think they have any

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Speaker 1: connection with public safety, they're incredibly overrated. And then you've

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Speaker 1: got sort of there pr mouthpieces and sort of elite

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Speaker 1: media who you know, when I was growing up, I

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Speaker 1: always looked at The New York Times is sort of

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Speaker 1: like an institution that you know, had a lot of respect,

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Speaker 1: you know, and even had a slogan like all the

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Speaker 1: news that's fit to print. It gives you the sense

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Speaker 1: that it's some kind of objective, like really the public

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Speaker 1: service that is telling us exactly what we need to

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Speaker 1: know and only the things that we need to know.

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Speaker 1: And then when you actually look at their articles, you

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Speaker 1: look at how biased and and how evidence free, and

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Speaker 1: how sort of it's almost like, on at least on

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Speaker 1: the areas that we're talking about now, it's almost like

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Speaker 1: they're just routinely publishing climate science denial. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: extent to which The New York Times is is repeatedly

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Speaker 1: just publishing lies and misleading information by police and prosecutors

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Speaker 1: and private corporations that benefit from the prison system. It's

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Speaker 1: almost as if you know, they're they're playing a pr

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Speaker 1: function for a lot of the most powerful and wealthy

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Speaker 1: interests in our society. And I mean the like too,

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Speaker 1: just kind of the overall kind of logic behind the system.

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Speaker 1: You have people who are being caged for not having money,

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Speaker 1: and then the people who who you're talking about, the

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Speaker 1: police have massive, like many multimillion dollar like PR wings

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Speaker 1: that are you know, in out there constantly putting pressure

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Speaker 1: on the media, right, Like that's kind of how and

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Speaker 1: that was that was something that in in your kind

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Speaker 1: of writing on this was first revealed to me, was

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Speaker 1: just like how much goes into like that not only

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Speaker 1: just four percent on violent crime and then everything else

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Speaker 1: on like low level crime. They also have like massive

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Speaker 1: propaganda wings, right and like that are constantly pushing I

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Speaker 1: didn't fully appreciate this myself until I started digging into

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Speaker 1: it over the last eighteen months to two years. I

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Speaker 1: think that what one thing most people don't appreciate because

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Speaker 1: the police do a very good job of hiding this

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Speaker 1: in their budgets. But there was just you know, taking

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles where you all are, the l A Times

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Speaker 1: in investigation after the George Floyd protests that found that

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's Department alone in l A County had forty

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Speaker 1: two employees working on public information PR stuff, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the head of their strategic communications division was making two

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a year. And the l A p D,

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Speaker 1: which is which is another you know, another large police force.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, Los Angeles County has many municipal

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Speaker 1: police forces. Los Angeles Police Department is just the biggest one.

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Speaker 1: They had an additional twenty five employees working on PR.

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Speaker 1: So if you just count the two largest police departments

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles County, the Sheriff's and the l A

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Speaker 1: p D, they have sixty seven people spending millions, millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars a year just on manipulating the information that

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Speaker 1: is told to the public about what they do. And

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Speaker 1: that's astonishing. And then that doesn't even count the external

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Speaker 1: consultants that are paid after any bad you know, instance

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Speaker 1: of a police shooting or a beating or any kind

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Speaker 1: of like crisis management. You know, a lot of these

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Speaker 1: departments across California in the country are hiring specialized PR

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Speaker 1: firms and and and that's how you know. It can

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Speaker 1: be in many of the places around the country that

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Speaker 1: the initial narrative given to the to the media is

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Speaker 1: so wildly different from what later emerges. If if we're

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Speaker 1: lucky enough to have body camera footage of a particular

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Speaker 1: incident or other officers of giving inconsistent reports, we often

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Speaker 1: later learned that the initial version of the police is

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Speaker 1: completely off and in fact was a deliberate lie, and

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Speaker 1: these pr companies that police pay a lot of money

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Speaker 1: to are actually helping with that construction of that lie.

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Speaker 1: What is something you think is underrated? I think that,

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Speaker 1: like I would say cats, You know, I think there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that don't appreciate how majestic cats are.

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Speaker 1: That is a daily guys to ask pivot, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what we do, constantly, pivot between silly songs

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Speaker 1: about how much the teenage mutant Ninja turtles house would

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Speaker 1: smell like ship into really salient points about social justice.

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Speaker 1: But perscy, I just wanted to applaud that really cool, No,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think and I think there's a very

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Speaker 1: real argument to be made that that cats appreciate the

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Speaker 1: sort of violence and senselessness of the policing bureacracy. And

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Speaker 1: that's one of I think the best things about them.

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Speaker 1: And are you basing that on Andrew Lloyd Webber's work

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Speaker 1: or just cats personal experience with cats? It's it's mostly

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Speaker 1: personal experience. It's it's it's an almost entirely anecdotal but

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Speaker 1: every cat I ever met has hated the police. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's fair EIDs definitely not. Also very

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Speaker 1: few feline units and in police forces the feeling is mutual. Apparently, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they don't funk with twelve. Ask any cat, ask anything,

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Speaker 1: Ask any cat. You say, pause the podcast, go ask

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Speaker 1: any cat right now, him, right now. They do not

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Speaker 1: funk with twelve. All right, let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: and we'll be right back. And we're back. And so

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Speaker 1: so there's apparently some polling that says Californians across the

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Speaker 1: political spectrum are concerned about rising crime. We we covered

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks back. This l a magazine article, Alec,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you had a chance to read

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Speaker 1: this work of brilliant journalism, but basically like talking about

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Speaker 1: the hysteria, describing crimes in great detail. Then they will

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Speaker 1: add like a paragraph with some statistical sanity about like

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Speaker 1: how this is not some sort of unprecedented crime wave,

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Speaker 1: and then the report the writer will use the phrase

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Speaker 1: but still and then go into how people but still.

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Speaker 1: It feels like the joker just rode into town is

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Speaker 1: an almost direct quote from from the article. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and it does seem like the you know, in

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Speaker 1: local politics, you have a more progressive district attorney that

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Speaker 1: one office, and who is now like being recalled basically

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Speaker 1: on the on the regular and the recall campaign is

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Speaker 1: being funded by like Hollywood big wigs, like the sort

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Speaker 1: of people who usually donate to big d democratic causes,

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Speaker 1: like George Clooney's producing partner, And it seems like people

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Speaker 1: are buying, buying this narrative that you've done a really

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Speaker 1: good job sort of deconstructing and kind of at least

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Speaker 1: anybody who reads your explanation around these stories. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I don't know how they're coming down on the

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Speaker 1: side of let's give the police a couple more a

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Speaker 1: couple more bill, they need some more helicopters. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Like does the story worry you guys,

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Speaker 1: Like do you? I think we've learned to take some

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Speaker 1: polling with a grain assaut over the past five, six,

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Speaker 1: eight years, But like the I do feel like there

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Speaker 1: is we are seeing this narrative sort of win out.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason that police department spend so much money

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Speaker 1: on this stuff. There's a reason that propaganda has been

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Speaker 1: so vitally important for powerful political interests across the world,

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Speaker 1: especially over the last hundred years. But but even before that,

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Speaker 1: and I posted a tweet the other day about a

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Speaker 1: very similar propaganda effort in Victorian England to to fillment

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Speaker 1: fear around rising thefts. And it works, right, and so

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Speaker 1: that's why these people are doing it. So yes, I

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Speaker 1: am very worried. I'm very scared because the extraordinary extent

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Speaker 1: to which the media is creating a sense of urgency

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Speaker 1: around so called rising crime is very troubling because a

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Speaker 1: lot of people will be hurt. And let me explain

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Speaker 1: what I mean. So, what the media chooses to cover

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Speaker 1: every single day breathlessly with all these stories that you're

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Speaker 1: talking about, with stories you seeing every day, effects what

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Speaker 1: all of us think are the urgent threats to our health,

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Speaker 1: safety and well being. So, for example, if every single

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Speaker 1: morning the media was doing breathless stories about the number

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Speaker 1: of illegal evictions or the air pollution deaths, right, so

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Speaker 1: ten million people die every year because of air pollution,

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Speaker 1: it dwarfs by orders of magnitude all reported homicides, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not even in the same league. Much

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Speaker 1: of the air and water pollution is actually caused by

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Speaker 1: criminal activity by large corporation. So if the media every

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Speaker 1: single morning reported the the very documented and very regular

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Speaker 1: pollution violations in water and air in l A County alone,

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Speaker 1: people might have a different sense of urgency about what

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Speaker 1: the real threats to their health and safety are. The

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Speaker 1: same is true of wage theft right. Wage left is

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Speaker 1: about a fifty billion dollar year problem, but it's mostly

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Speaker 1: large corporations and wealthy people stealing from poorer people and

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Speaker 1: working class people. And as a result, even though wage

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Speaker 1: theft dwarfs by a fact about five all other reported

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Speaker 1: property crime um, you never see daily news stories about

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Speaker 1: wage theft. So imagine if if the local media in

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Speaker 1: l A had daily beats where they talked about wage

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Speaker 1: theft and pollution and evictions and illegal foreclosures and the

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Speaker 1: things that are actually affecting the health, safety and well

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Speaker 1: being and actually killing people at far higher rates. We

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Speaker 1: have a different public understanding of the sense of urgency

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Speaker 1: around these problems. That's what worries me because as as

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Speaker 1: a result of this this sort of media focus, we

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Speaker 1: are not dealing with the central problems of our day

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Speaker 1: and the world is creating towards ecological devastation, are political

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Speaker 1: system and shambles. Were still two years into a pandemic,

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Speaker 1: not offering basic health care for many people in this country,

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Speaker 1: basic housing, right, So these are the things that should

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Speaker 1: be urgent problems. And because of this nonsense like the

431
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: LLI magazine article you're talking about, um, we've got a

432
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: lot of well meaning people who are urgently afraid of

433
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: a problem that is just miniscule compared to all the

434
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: other problems that I just mentioned and more problems, right,

435
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: and the like irony of not actually talking about those

436
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: pressing issues as a as a sort of contributing factor

437
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: to even the things they want to see about crime

438
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: or property crime and completely just being like, you know,

439
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: there's just some bad people out there, and that's how

440
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: it begins, and that's how it ends without you know,

441
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: like you said, if we have a consistent sort of

442
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: cadence of proper reporting, people would start to connect the

443
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: dots to say, oh, you know what, people are desperate

444
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: and that there's a desperation that drives people to do

445
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: things that are outside of what we define as you know,

446
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: legal activity. And yeah, it's it's it's you know, I

447
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: think we see the all the time. But that's why

448
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: the media and you know, the established powers are just

449
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: so hand in hand because to begin reporting like that,

450
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: like you're saying, but will begin to create a level

451
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: of urgency and people that are more inclined to say

452
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: what about like inequality, Like isn't that a thing? But

453
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: it's easier to say, oh, my gosh, did you see

454
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: how many forty TVs that one guy had in his arms? Right?

455
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: Huh Yeah. And there are a handful of very real,

456
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: very horrible crimes that have just been that We talk

457
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: a lot on this show about sampling error and the

458
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: fact that the media overcovers, like over samples a handful

459
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: of very like horrifying crimes and it just gets them

460
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: out there and makes it seem like it's a danger

461
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: to to everyone, like those are what all they want

462
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 1: to talk about, and they store the stories that they

463
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: are completely ignoring that you talk about so much. Shall

464
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: are contributing factors, Like so it's not just look here,

465
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: not there, it's like, look, if you looked at this,

466
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: like those other stories would be fewer and further between.

467
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: But right, yeah, I don't know that. But essentially to

468
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: look at this thing, right where like the polling where

469
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: they say sixty five percent of Californians that say that

470
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 1: crime has risen over the last year and that's an

471
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: and rather than like saying, here are the statistics about

472
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: crime rates, this is merely saying, hey, man, six people

473
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: are pretty fucked up off of all this, you know,

474
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: sensationalized reporting, right, and have completely fallen into this column

475
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: of yeah, man, crimes out of controllers, and we got

476
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: to do something about it. Apparently we need to throw

477
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: the brakes on any kind of progress that addresses a

478
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: completely imbalanced, like judicial legal system. Yeah. I think it's

479
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: it's a product of the media's propagandas free on this

480
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: and and you know, I think it's really more copaganda.

481
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: It's really it's it's really an attempt by a very

482
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: coordinated and very successful attempt by police unions, police departments,

483
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: and in many local jurisdictions like l A in particular,

484
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: by very very powerful real estate development interests that have

485
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: a very particular interest in police controlling unhoused populations and

486
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: low income populations and and play an outsized role in

487
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: the deployment of police resources. And there's a really great,

488
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: amazing report about Los Angeles in particular, um called Automated

489
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: Banishment by the Stop lap D Spying Coalition, which is

490
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: a group of amazing directly impacted people in skid row

491
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles who have done this incredible analysis of

492
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: the connection between real estate developers and sort of big

493
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: technology companies and police departments. And so you have to

494
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,959
Speaker 1: understand it's not just that they're not just doing this

495
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: because it's fun for them. They're not just doing this

496
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: because they want to, like, you know, have fun manipulating people.

497
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: They're doing it because they're very real interests that benefit

498
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: from the way that our policing system looks. So, for example,

499
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: there were people who benefited from the War on drugs.

500
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: The War on drugs was not like some like very

501
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: neutral objective attempt to reduce drug usage. Right. If you

502
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: look at the last like forty years, right, and you know,

503
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: we've spent trillions of dollars in the world drugs. We've

504
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: caged tens of millions of people, We've separated tens of

505
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: millions of children from their parents. We've surveiled global populations.

506
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: We've essentially destroyed much of the pristine wilderness and farmland

507
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: and jungle throughout South America through various pesticides. We've we've

508
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: had people who are spending hundreds of millions of years

509
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: in prison at this point if you sort of add

510
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: it all up, like we've we've got a terrific costs

511
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: associated with with this right, and for what benefits. Drugs

512
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: are easier to get now, they're they're they're more potent,

513
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: way overdose deaths, more young people using drugs. So it's

514
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: not that the people that that created and have profited

515
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: from our still pushing the war on drugs. It's not

516
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: that they're stupid. They don't. They're not blind to this evidence.

517
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: They know that overdose deaths are worth they know that

518
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: drug usage is even worse now than it was forty

519
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: years ago. It's just that they're not pursuing the goals

520
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: that they told us they were pursuing. And we need

521
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: to understand that the people that are controlling this criminal

522
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: punishment deureaucracy are not doing it because it is the

523
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: best way to create healthier, safer communities. They're doing it

524
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: for other reasons, and they don't tell us those reasons overtly. Right. Yeah,

525
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: the role of real estate, by the way, is interesting

526
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: on the on the automated banishment front. And just when

527
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: when you look into the background of the person, like

528
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: I get, I just couldn't believe what I was reading

529
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: when I read that l AMaGA article, and so I

530
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: just dug into the author's background. And their background is

531
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: reporting on real estate for the Hollywood Reporter. So that

532
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: that then builds up sources, the and you know, help

533
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,239
Speaker 1: them portray a worldview that's like, Yeah, I party with

534
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: Rick Caruso every weekend, you know what I mean? Yeah,

535
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: but now I'm right about crime. You got me this

536
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: sick gig ell a magazine to just you know, sound

537
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: the alarm on these property crimes. Yeah, and the um shoplifting,

538
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: the train theft like that. That is something that they

539
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: were really pushing in December, the shoplifting and the run

540
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: up to They love to get a consumer based panic

541
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: going and the lead up to the holidays. We've talked

542
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: before about how they there every year you can kind

543
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: of guarantee there's going to be a Christmas tree shortage

544
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: story or a candy can shortage story. We talked about

545
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: that in early December, and sure enough it hit. It

546
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: hit big. That that gamble hit big because they were

547
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: both all over Fox News and you know, the Drudge

548
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: Report and ship but the they're still bringing that ship.

549
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: You you were pointing out an Axios article from like

550
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago that is kind of portrayed

551
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: as this like digest of the entire problem, and now

552
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: they've added this new element where it's like the you know,

553
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: people are doing this because it's so easy to sell

554
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: stuff online now. But but yeah, like the the article

555
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: for on axios from a couple of days ago, shoplifting

556
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: has gotten so bad nationally, the chains like right Aid

557
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: are closing hard hit stores, sending terrified employees home and

558
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: ubers and locking up aisles of seemingly Monday and items

559
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: like theodor want and toothpaste. That's from a couple of

560
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: days ago, And it's been repeatedly pointed out, not just

561
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: by you, by like many how like New York Magazine

562
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: and other places. By the way, the source they link

563
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: off to for the idea that right is closing is

564
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: the New York Post, and it is sourced to a

565
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: Right Aid employee or I I forget, like an unemployee

566
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: with knowledge of the situation, something like very vague, but you,

567
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: You and many others have pointed out that there's just

568
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: like no evidence that this is actually hurting their bottom line.

569
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: It's just a complete bullshit story. But there's still like Axios,

570
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: who who I don't think is like known for being

571
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: a copaganda outlet necessarily is just out here still still

572
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: rocking with that story. Well, not only that, not only

573
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: is there no evidence, it's affirmatively false. So the reporting

574
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: has established that right aid Walgreen CBS, they've been telling

575
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: investors for a long time that they're planning on closing

576
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: these stores to keep profit margins and and and because

577
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: of the loss of business to online. So one of

578
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: the things you have to understand is more and more

579
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: people are buying their prescriptions online, and so a lot

580
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: of these drug stores are becoming less profitable because they

581
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: have high margin products that people The way they make

582
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: their business, much of their business is people mean for

583
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: prescriptions then buy other stuff that's really high margin on

584
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: their way to the register or you know, on the

585
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: on the same trip. Because a lot more people are

586
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: getting prescriptions online, there's just like less foot traffic, these

587
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: businesses are becoming less profitable. So they're making very strategic

588
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: business decisions that have zero to do with shoplifting, and

589
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: they're very clear about that and their investor briefings, investor calls,

590
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: and so this is just a totally false narrative. But

591
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: what is going on is a bunch of retail industry

592
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: people are pushing a bill in Congress to crackdown on

593
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: electronic marketplaces. And so all of this pr plush is

594
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: actually time to coincide with the federal lobbying to try

595
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: to get sort of it's an anti kind of Amazon

596
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 1: marketplace set of regulations they want because they are worried

597
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: that the small businesses that are able to now sell

598
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: much more efficiently online are actually going to cut into

599
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: the major big box retailer profit margins. And so that's

600
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: what's really going on here and what And then of

601
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: course you've got local cops and prosecutors who will take

602
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: any kind of excuse to try to pad their own

603
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: budgets and to try to fear monger because a climate

604
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: of fear around so called crime actually helps everything that

605
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: they want to do. And so you've got this alliance

606
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: between big retailers and you know, so called law enforcement interests.

607
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: I used I used the term law enforcement always with

608
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 1: air quotes, because they want you to think that they're

609
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: just like out there enforcing the laws. But they only

610
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: enforce some laws against some people. Some of the time,

611
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: you're not out there enforcing tax evasion laws. Right, They're

612
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: not out there enforcing wage theft laws. They're enforcing like

613
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: theft laws against the poorest people in our society. That's

614
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: what they do. Right. So anyway, I think there's a

615
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: much more to the story, and it's unfortunate to see

616
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: you know, newspaper and online reporters sort of just parenting

617
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: this this highly self serving and false set of claims

618
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: by the industry. Well, right, and then it's you know,

619
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: without drawing those direct lines, you know, like I'll look

620
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: on you know, Reddit or other places, and I'll see

621
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: post stories like this posted and p bowl you can

622
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: tell them the comments how are completely disconnected from what's

623
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: actually happening, Like, man, it's it must be so out

624
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: of control in California, Like yeah, man, I guess they

625
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: need more cops and things like that. With again not

626
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: understanding like you're saying, like what I remember the Walgreen

627
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: story a few weeks or maybe that was back in December,

628
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: when they're like they're gonna have to shut stores down,

629
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: and people like did you read their like actual business

630
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 1: reporting They talk about how they're like real estate plans

631
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: they completely fucked up and we're over leveraged in markets

632
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: where the rental costs were just too high and it's unsustainable.

633
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: It's not because people were stealing en famil or something

634
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: from their stores. It's because of these other business decisions.

635
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: And then to the other point of like these vested

636
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: interests of law enforcement or prosecutors. You look at the

637
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: cities that have more progressive d a's, and those aren't

638
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: the people who are gonna go lockstep with the retail

639
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: trade groups to be like, yeah, yeah, I'm with you,

640
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: I'm with you. Yeah, let's let's let's figure out a

641
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: way to make this work for you. And when they're

642
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 1: not like that, you begin to see these like recall

643
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: campaigns sprout up to and it's very very convenient to

644
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: begin to say, look at all this rampant theft, all

645
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: this shoplifting, the train crimes, and then look at this

646
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: progressive d A. I mean, it's it's just all right there, folks,

647
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 1: we need more law and order, and it's it's a

648
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: very very convenient catch all for many many different aims.

649
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: When most like to your point, at the end of

650
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: the day, it's just to enrich the same sort of

651
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: group of people. They're just finding really clever ways to

652
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: dress up the problem in spookier ways for you know,

653
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: the the everyday consumer. Yeah, all right, let's take a

654
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: quick break, and then I want to talk about this

655
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: thing that I see a lot where people treat anyone

656
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: who wants to talk about the real underlying issues as

657
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: like childish or like not serious or like two idealistic.

658
00:36:46,320 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: So we'll be right back, and we're back. And actually, Alec,

659
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: the thing that made me think about this is you

660
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: had pointed out that Erica Adams is trying to get

661
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: drill rap videos banned from social media after some rappers

662
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: were killed in New York recently, and like it's a

663
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: it's become a high profile news story, and you I

664
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: think I had a tweet to the effect of, you know,

665
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: Adams is also planning on banning the opera because uh,

666
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, people who engage in wage theft and tax

667
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: evasion like tends to go there. And so this guy

668
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: DJ is serious on Twitter and the lest you doubt

669
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: his journalistic Bonafide's came at you and was like, like,

670
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: you can't be serious. You think like we're gonna be

671
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: able to solve those problems, like the things that you know,

672
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: we've been talking about on this podcast, like wage theft,

673
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: caging humans, lack of funding for schools and programs that

674
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: invest in the humanity of underserved commune and he's he

675
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: he dismissed as like, you know, unrealistic or childish. And

676
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: then and just like cloud chasing, I guess and I

677
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: I actually a couple of weeks ago, we had somebody

678
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: on the show and we were like they made some

679
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: point to the effect of like that the system is

680
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: is fucked up, and you know that kind of aligned

681
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: with what we've been talking about. And then like stopped

682
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: and was like, I, I know it sounds childish, and

683
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: I I think that's something that like I also internalized

684
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: at a certain point. Is like just like pointing out

685
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: these very basic problems is like idealistic and childish and

686
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: like not something like the realistic people are out here

687
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: pointing out individual like acts of violence. Like when you

688
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: go to the guy who you arguing with on Twitter's thread,

689
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: he like has these posts of like like a video

690
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: of a murder happening, and it's like the bronx is

691
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: out of control and like so he's the the serious one.

692
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: While arguing for the banning of rap music on social media,

693
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: Like do you do you run up against that a lot,

694
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: like just sort of the you're being unrealistic or childish

695
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: all the time. I mean, I think he's maybe a

696
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: bad example because he's not really a serious person, because

697
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, like he he really showed who he was not,

698
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: just with all the insults he was hurling at me

699
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 1: as I was trying to just like have a reasonable

700
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 1: like debate, but like he then said that Eric Adams

701
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: is also trying to address all these root causes, and

702
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: then he excited to Adams's crime plan, which is literally

703
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: the exact opposite, Like, you know, Adams is trying to

704
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: beef up uh you know, roll back bail reform and

705
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: beef up cops and all this stuff and and not

706
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: addressing things like healthcare and housing and inequality and so

707
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, this guy is not a serious person. But

708
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: I think what was really revealing about the exchange, and

709
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: which I do see a lot, is politicians and sort

710
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: of very comfortable people are constantly trying to just to

711
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: distract us from having the real conversation about structural inequalities

712
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: in our society, about divestment from safe places to live

713
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: and systems of care. And what they want us to

714
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: do is focus on like bad individual bad apples, or well,

715
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 1: this week, the problem is music, so like we don't

716
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: have to confront poverty and inequality and deprivation and loneliness

717
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: and and toxic masculinity and all these other things that

718
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: are sort of big social structural problems. All way, if

719
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: you do is banned this type of rap music, and

720
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: tomorrow it's going to be all we have to do

721
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: is get rid of bail reform, And the next day

722
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: it's going to be all we have to do is

723
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: get rid of this district attorney in Los Angeles, because

724
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: everything was so much better the last thirty years before

725
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: we had this district attorney, right, And and every single

726
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: day they point to some other little thing that is

727
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: not fixing the deeper structural problems in our society. And

728
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: to me, that kind of argument is just such a joke.

729
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: It's hard to even engage with someone seriously about it.

730
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of well meaning people that

731
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: get trapped up in this, and so I think it's

732
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: important sometimes to treat this is a serious argument and

733
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: to point out sort of why it's so flawed. Yeah,

734
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: it's it's it's again, it's so much easier to just

735
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: say to to ignore like all of the root causes

736
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: like you're talking about, and just turn it into this

737
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: thing of like this like very understandable evil that exists somewhere,

738
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: and it's this this drill wrap. I mean, the dishes

739
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 1: are too violent and that's what's causing all of this chaos.

740
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 1: But again, people like the example of people always fail

741
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: to like really think about two is like, well, how

742
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: come you know what what about why is there not

743
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: a drill scene in Beverly Hills. You know, why is

744
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: there not a drill scene in these more affluent areas?

745
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: And what would happen then with that, with those people

746
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 1: suddenly be overtaken by the demonic drill music and then

747
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: begin killing each other? Or is it about the the

748
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: outcomes that people are offered based on their their place

749
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: in this and like in this sort of cast system

750
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: that we have in the in the country, and rather

751
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: than saying, like, you know, when people are deprived and desperate,

752
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: we we begin to do things that have to ensure

753
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: our survival and to distill it too well, these lyrics

754
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: are too hot. Again, everything is just sort of about

755
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: avoiding the real solution to something, which is we need

756
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: to address rampant inequality. We need to address this stuff.

757
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: The the greed of the wealthy has only exacerbated these things.

758
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: But again, I think that's much easier for people who

759
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: probably feel that, you know, their livelihood or something is

760
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: at risk with some kind of increased equality in society.

761
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: I think those kinds of explanations help those people wrap

762
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: their minds around it, because like, well, certainly it's not

763
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 1: this other thing that I've been completely turning a blind

764
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: eye to my whole life, drill music. And if you

765
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: think about yeah, I believe drill music was around, uh

766
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: even in the sixties, you know what I mean, Like,

767
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: what why is it always this like changing, uh, this

768
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: evolving sort of like fake target that you know, allows

769
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: people just to avoid again, like always avoiding the part

770
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: of the conversation, which is, yeah, we have to we

771
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: have to fundamentally change a lot of things. And there's

772
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: something about this guy that I just wanted to underline

773
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: because he's a Pulitzer Center grantee, which I don't really

774
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: know what that means, but it sounds impressive, and like

775
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: he has a picture like his Twitter header is like

776
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: a picture of him like doing war reporting and like

777
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: being on the ground and like being there for violence

778
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: happening in other countries, and then he has this post

779
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: of like a video of somebody being murdered. And the

780
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: degree to which like it's ingrained in our values and

781
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: the values that I like grew up with, where like

782
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: the you know, action movies are about the police and

783
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: like doing like real serious things and like serious people

784
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,959
Speaker 1: taking care of serious problems and like that that sort

785
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: of idea that you're serious because you were kind of

786
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: focusing on the like very short term like cause and

787
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: effect of like violent conflict, like that that is the

788
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: serious thing to do, and then actually talking about structural

789
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: issues is like the not serious thing like that. I

790
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: don't know, it's just especially now with social media, which

791
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: I feel nine years old every time I complain about

792
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: social media, But like it is so like every aspect

793
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: of this value system of like you know, being able

794
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: to over index whatever problem you want to exaggerate is

795
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: like so deeply ingrained in like how how we communicate

796
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: and get information that I'm I don't know, like I

797
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: is there anything that makes you feel hopeful ale like

798
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: about the struggle that you're kind of engaged in. I

799
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: think it's easy to feel hopeless because the problems in

800
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: front of us seems so daunting, and and you've got

801
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: very powerful interests who not only are controlling how all

802
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: this money is being spent all these policies, but they're

803
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: also you know, the ones who own the media system

804
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: in which these discussions are being had. But at the

805
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: same time, there's a whole new generation of people that

806
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: are seeing through this stuff, that are having conversations that

807
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: we just weren't having ten years ago. And you know,

808
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: when I was a younger lawyer just starting out in

809
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: this space, there was really no one talking about the

810
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: need to shrink the size of the chrome punishment bureacracy,

811
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: to take money away from police departments, to invest in

812
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: in communities of care. No one in in sort of

813
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: these elite spaces. That is obviously the people in these

814
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: communities that are directly targeted. I've been talking about this,

815
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: you know, from the very beginning, but there's a I

816
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: think one of the reasons we've seen this incredible pushback

817
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: from the police and from these media interests and is

818
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: precisely because they were threatened by a lot of the

819
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: growing social movement to change the way our society thinks

820
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: about its investment priorities, and so I think that is

821
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: a positive. We we are definitely seeing a movement of

822
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: people led by the people that are most targeted by

823
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: these systems of of human caging and surveillance and brutality

824
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 1: and violence, and that's encouraging. And we're in a reactionary

825
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: backlash right now, but the thing that it's reacting to

826
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: is is a very encouraging set of developments. And I

827
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: think it's very, very important that anyone interested in this

828
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: comes together with other people who are interested in it

829
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 1: and starts getting involved in their own community, whether it's

830
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: in mutual aid, whether it's in bail funds, whether it's

831
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: in organizing around environmental issues, health issues, housing issues, criminal

832
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: punishment system issues, mutual aid like efforts, immigration issues. There's

833
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: so many ways to plug in that, you know, around

834
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: something that you're personally really passionate about that all are

835
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: sort of factoring into us building the systems of hair

836
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: that we need that are going to replace this horrific

837
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: system of violence. And I think that's all positive. Yeah,

838
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, Like to your point, it's clear that

839
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 1: the that like a moment of clarity for people over

840
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: in the summer of where many people are just like,

841
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: hold on, yeah, is this the right thing? Is this

842
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: the way we get out of this? That scared the

843
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: ship out of law enforcement clearly because you've seen them

844
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: pour every single thing they can into countering the sort

845
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: of clarity that something that many people are beginning to

846
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: arrive to, which is sort of like, yeah, I'm not

847
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: sure that this partial system is the way that we

848
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: solve things. It sounds like we need to actually help

849
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: people rather than solving the failures of our capitalist, capitalist

850
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: society by just investing more in punishing the poor. I

851
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: think people are begin to be like, that doesn't quite connect.

852
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: And yet when you see them this all in thing

853
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: of like man, the shoplifting, this that that that, that's

854
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: the drill music it does, you can tell that they're

855
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: in a much different posture than before, when I think

856
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: people were just much more willing to accept whatever the

857
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: local news said and just be like, yeah, I mean,

858
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: if that's the cops say, yeah, go ahead. And now

859
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: I think with story after story about abuses that occur

860
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: in the in the legal system, it's it's hard to

861
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how you counter that, aside from just

862
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: going further into your bad habits of stoking more fear

863
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 1: without really being able to like present the people with

864
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: actual winds that law enforcement has been behind, you know,

865
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: like they're not out here being like, hey, you know

866
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 1: what we revamped. We turned half of our force into

867
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: like first responders for people who are in need of

868
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: like a mental health intervention and things like that. And

869
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: look at the crime it's gone down, baby, every You

870
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: could leave a bike out and nobody's gonna steal it

871
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: because they're just unable to do that because that the

872
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: way the system works for them is no, we just

873
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: have to keep brutalizing poor people. That's the only thing

874
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: this thing is set up to do. So we're just

875
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: going to turn up the heat on that. And I

876
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: think it has this effective on one side a lot

877
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: of people. Really. I see it all the time people

878
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: I used to go to high school with on Instagram

879
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: or like looking at taking a picture of a dumpster

880
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 1: that has graffiti on it, and you can tell how

881
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: like cop brained they are because they're like, oh my gosh,

882
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: do I need to get a gun now? Yeah, there's

883
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: there's graffiti on this dumpster behind my office building, and

884
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: I see, this is what's happening right now because people

885
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: are running just out here doing whatever they want because

886
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: there's no law enforcement, while many others are just sort

887
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: of like no, no. I All I see actually is

888
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: a lot of pain suffering that has gone unaddressed, and

889
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: that to me is a more pressing concern than oh,

890
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: do we have to lock up you know, the mock

891
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: three razors at the fucking pharmacy. And so yeah, like

892
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: I that yes, with all the with all the momentum,

893
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: clearly that you know, this narrative that's been introduced by

894
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: you know, the powers that be in law enforcement, et cetera,

895
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: there is like there is just that little bit of

896
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: clarity that you're beginning to see a lot of like

897
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: people sort of step into as it relates to like

898
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: what's actually playing our our country. I mean, I I

899
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: think it's worth talking about the the convoy that's happened

900
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: up in Canada because like they without any without any

901
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: coherent worldview other than like sort of an underlying white

902
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,760
Speaker 1: supremacy that everybody seems to be on board with, they

903
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: were pretty successful and like making everyone's lives miserable and

904
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: like grinding everything to a halt for for a number

905
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: of days. And they definitely have the built in advantage

906
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: of the police also being on board with the fact

907
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: that they're waving Nazi flags. I feel like if you

908
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: replace those flags with Black Lives Matter flags, were we're

909
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: dealing with a whole different situation. But so, I mean,

910
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: the latest in this story is that Trudeau is invoking

911
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: the Emergencies Act, which is the Canadian Act that was

912
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: used to has people's rights during World War One world

913
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: War two in internment camps, and then in they reshaped

914
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: the War Act to like give it a little bit

915
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: more congressional oversight. But it's it's a fair it's a

916
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: pretty problematic, like and scary use of force that the

917
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: government is like kind of coming in and using or

918
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: like invoking I guess, And I'm just like wondering, I

919
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: don't know, do like is there any part like the

920
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: movement for Progress and social justice like should we be

921
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: looking at like these sorts of actions that actually like

922
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: fucking disrupt an entire city, Like this is not a

923
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: well thought out plan, but it's just something that's happening

924
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: in the news, and I'm just like wondering without them

925
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 1: having any coherent argument or complaint, they are succeeding. Like

926
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: if what if a you know, the movement too and

927
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: wage theft, Like did something like this a thing that

928
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: actually affects more truckers than the six percent of the

929
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: anti vax or truckers in in Canada? Like why why

930
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: don't we see more things like that? Should we see

931
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 1: more things like that? Where it's like a very disruptive um,

932
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: you know, behavior like this absolutely, I mean, this is

933
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: why you've seen states, particularly conservative states across the country

934
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: criminalized to extraordinary degree these kinds of direct actions. So

935
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: now if you did this in a number of states

936
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,760
Speaker 1: in the US, you could be hit with huge felony charges,

937
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: go to prison for life, you'd be called a terrorist.

938
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: The federal government can prosecute you. You know, they just

939
00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:00,919
Speaker 1: prosecuted two women in Iowa for you know, disrupting infrastructure

940
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: and they prosecute them as terrorists. And this is when

941
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: when it's being done on the left wing side, all

942
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: of the incredible bureaucratic apparatus of state violence is a

943
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 1: raid against you, and you're called a terrorist. Whether it's

944
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 1: people who are trying to disrupt animal agriculture or or

945
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, toxic fossil fuel infrastructure. And there's a really

946
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: interesting and thought provoking new book called How to Blow

947
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: Up a Pipeline by Swedish climate activists and philosopher, which essentially,

948
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: you know, makes the case that you just made, Jack,

949
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: but makes it really beautifully. It's really fun and short read,

950
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: even more beautifully than I just made it. I thought

951
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: it really nailed it. Well, obviously not as beautiful, stuttering

952
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: and uh and pauses. I thought I thought I really

953
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 1: nailed it. Yeah, sorry, notice it's a it's a I

954
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: think you should send him some notes and maybe the

955
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: next version of the book can be can be a

956
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: little bit more eloquent. But How to glub of Phipeline

957
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 1: is a really inspiring read about the need for direct

958
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: action on the level that actually confronts the enormity of

959
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 1: the ecological disaster and collapse that we're about to confront

960
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: as a sort of a global world. And and you know,

961
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: the more that starts to happen, the more repression we're

962
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: going to see, the more things like what true Joe

963
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: just did are going to be arrayed against anyone remotely

964
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: pushing environmental or social justice, and it's going to be very,

965
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: very scary, especially as significant migration of hundreds and millions

966
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: of people starts to become sort of the monthly norm,

967
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: right the Yeah, I guess any anything that somebody is

968
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: learning from this should be taken with a like, like,

969
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: I think it has been allowed to go on this

970
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 1: long because it doesn't have any coherent agenda or argument

971
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: that is like picking up steam with anybody that that

972
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: I can tell other than just white supremacy. Like, so

973
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: I feel like they're like, yeah, sure, they hang out,

974
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 1: you know, but take a picture there. Their examples or

975
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: the Ottawa police were letting the truckers these convoy protesters

976
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: take selfies in the back of their squad car and

977
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: then so that they could spread misinformation that they had

978
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: been arrested to like get people outraged, but of course

979
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,479
Speaker 1: the place weren't arresting. Yeah. Well, I mean it's telling

980
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: when you're in the back of a squad car with

981
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 1: no handcuffs on, when you're when you're looking out to

982
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: that and they're like, help, no, that's that's not what's

983
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: happening there. And you know it's funny too, Like they

984
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: talk a lot about you know, they don't want to

985
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: send in the military or they don't want to really

986
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: start you know, rounding people up like they would uh

987
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 1: you know, protests that would have involved disenfranchised people of color,

988
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: First Nations people, But you know, there's been this insistence

989
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 1: that they're there don't want this imagery of people actually

990
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: being suppressed and being brutalized by the state, and I

991
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 1: you know, part of me is like, well, that's really

992
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 1: just for them, because most people who are protesting, they

993
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: don't need to be brutalized by the police at a

994
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 1: protest to get in touch with their oppression. Most people

995
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: already are whereas this serves a very much visual narrative

996
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: to be like you see, even because what we're talking

997
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: about is total vaporware and bullshit. But if they get

998
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: out here and start arresting us, then we can add

999
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 1: a little bit more emotional energy to this to help,

1000
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: you know, kind of build some momentum, because at the

1001
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,439
Speaker 1: end of the day, like you're saying, it's not many

1002
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: people are confused, you know, especially if you're outside of

1003
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: this anti vax truck or convoy world, where they're like,

1004
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 1: what are these fucking people doing? Like this is nonsense.

1005
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: But you know, they're very much in the in pursuit

1006
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: of those visuals to help sort of solidify or validate

1007
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: their sort of victim narrative, which is just truly not there.

1008
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: So actually not when you're hugging the police when they're

1009
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 1: supposed to be clearing you out. I mean, like, and

1010
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: I think that's the other part. Two. It's very hard

1011
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: for people who you know, have somewhat of a brain

1012
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: to look at that and go, that's weird. They hug

1013
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: those protesters but are firing rubber bullets straight into the

1014
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: eyes of the other people, and they're not They weren't

1015
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: holding up global commerce. Okay, interesting, Yeah, Alec, such a

1016
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: pleasure having you. Thanks for hanging hanging with us for

1017
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,919
Speaker 1: an hour. Where can people kind of find you, follow you,

1018
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: read you all that good stuff. Yeah, you can follow

1019
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: our organization at SIEV Rights Core on Instagram and Twitter

1020
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: and the course spelled c rps like the Peace Corps.

1021
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: And you can follow me on Twitter at Equality Alec. Yeah. Yeah,

1022
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: And is there a tweet or some of the work

1023
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: of social media that you've been enjoying. I've been watching, uh,

1024
00:57:55,720 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, repeatedly recently the old fifty year old recording

1025
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: of Muhammad Ali reading his poem but the Attica prison

1026
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: riot you can watch on YouTube. It's an amazing poem

1027
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: that that Ali made that just describes the violence and

1028
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: brutality of the US prison system. And it's fascinating to

1029
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,439
Speaker 1: me just how like all of these problems are still

1030
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: the same, and because we're continually refusing to actually confront

1031
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: the ways in which state violence is weaponized against the

1032
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: most vulnerable people in our society, it just keeps recurring.

1033
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: We keep having these same conversations about whether it's prison

1034
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: conditions or police brutality or whatever it might be, inequality, poverty,

1035
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: and all of these systems continue to function and to

1036
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: get bigger and to get more even more monstrous, to

1037
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: kill more and more people. You know, police killed more

1038
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: people in one and they did in twenty after all

1039
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: the attention that had been put on police killings, after

1040
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: the murders of Brianna Taylor and George Floyd and others.

1041
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: And so I've been I've been watching him read this

1042
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 1: beautiful poem and and thinking about the defiance and the

1043
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: brilliance that he exhibited. It's very inspiring, and so that's

1044
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: something I point people to and the fact that I

1045
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: didn't even know that existed, Like the is just such

1046
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: a testament to like how the system is, like how

1047
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: against the grain that sort of thing is, Like that

1048
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: that's one of the most iconic, greatest like American celebrities.

1049
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: America fucking loves the celebrity like talking about one of

1050
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: the defining problems of his time and errors and it's like,

1051
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: oh that exists. Cool, m right, Yeah, that that seems

1052
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: like that should be absolutely iconic. I will go check

1053
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: that out. People should do the same. Miles where can

1054
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: people find you? Follow you Twitter, Instagram at Miles of Gray. Also,

1055
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: if you like, you know Fance like how four twenty

1056
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: day Fiance was Sophia Alexander and I. That's a podcast

1057
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: and the live stream, so check that out. A tweet

1058
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: I like is from at and a fun not fun tweeted.

1059
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: This is your reminder that tem percented bitcoin owners have

1060
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: the bitcoins. They need new crypto buyers to be able

1061
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: to sell their whole things without taking the market all

1062
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: these crypto ads or them trying to offload their position

1063
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: in the Ponzi scheme. Okay, that's interesting thing to consider.

1064
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 1: And along with that, listener big Al at pork cop Express.

1065
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: We were joking about, like, you know, if the Sopranos

1066
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: are around now and they're talking about crypto and ship

1067
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: most of this picture of like Christopher wearing like a

1068
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,919
Speaker 1: leather jacket and sunglasses with a cigarette and says it's

1069
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: called a non fuckable token. There were so much money

1070
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: because they're made of computers. Well done. Let's see. You

1071
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien, Uh

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01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: tweet I've been enjoying At dooter Main at six twelve,

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01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: Jack tweeted, Uh, this guy, I'm taking just ran across

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01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: the stream to lose this sin. We've all been there.

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01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at daily Zeitgeist. Were

1076
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: at the dailies. I guys on Instagram. We have Facebook

1077
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: fan page on our website, daily zeitgeis dot com where

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01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: we post episodes and our foot note where we link

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01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: off to the information that we talked about in today's episode,

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Speaker 1: as well as a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles,

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01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: what song do we think people might? Oh? Man, this

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01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: is a this is gonna be an iconic performance from

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01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: Slide the family Stone. If you've ever seen the Woodstock documentary.

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01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: The Sly section is one of my favorite parts of

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01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: that whole documentary because there's a section where he's doing Higher.

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01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: It's like a medley and he just has this whole

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01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: fucking crowd going up, just screaming higher, and it's one

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01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 1: of my favorite performances. But you can also listen to

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01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: it because they're the Woodstock album is out on most places.

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01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: So this is the medley of higher slash music Lover

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01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: from Woodstock, from Slie the Family Stone. But I really,

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01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: I would really suggest you watched the deal first because

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01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: when the when the fucking song really kicks in and

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01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: they start getting loose, it's pure joy nice all right. Well,

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01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: The Daily is like guys, a production of by Heart Radio.

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01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: For more podcast My Heart Radio, visit the heart Radio app,

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01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: We'll link off to that Slive video and we will

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01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: link off to the Muhammad Ali reading of the poem

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Speaker 1: on Attica. Also in the footnotes, Um, I'm gonna do

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01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 1: it for us this morning. We're back this afternoon to

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01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: tell you what is trending, and we will talk to

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01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 1: you all then. Bye bye,