Speaker 1: Forever. Look man, oh, I see you? My why and
Speaker 1: look over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness, les
Speaker 1: cultures calling. You know, we were just talking about brunch.
Speaker 1: It's a Sunday, I was there. Even today, I've been
Speaker 1: robbed of brunch recently. I need a good bunch. That's
Speaker 1: because you're often tired on Sundays. But you know, for
Speaker 1: the right brunch, you know, I was saying, it can
Speaker 1: be difficult to find. What is your ideal brunch situation?
Speaker 1: Is it more drinks, less food or going in on
Speaker 1: the food, and like you have a drink, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a huge drinker and function alcoholics.
Speaker 1: So I said, then, what what do we do when
Speaker 1: I if I want to eat brunch with my best
Speaker 1: friend Matt Rodgers, where do we go? Because we're on
Speaker 1: two different, diametrically post sides, I would say that I'm
Speaker 1: be willing to put you first. No, I mean the
Speaker 1: food is the food food. Sometimes it depends on the food.
Speaker 1: How about that it depends on the food. But and
Speaker 1: here's the thing, A lot of these brunches now it's
Speaker 1: not about the food anymore. It's about the drinks. And
Speaker 1: it feels so asked backwards. I don't know. I feel like,
Speaker 1: what when I hear the word brunch? What I get
Speaker 1: excited about my heart gut and Llyn's is a bloody Mary.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna have a bloody Mary. Fuck. They're
Speaker 1: better be cheese on the skewer. Honestly, I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1: I love a good cheese and I love meating my
Speaker 1: bloody mary. Oh, sorry, bitch, A folded little thing of salami. Oh,
Speaker 1: fold up the bacon and put it on a stick bacon. Yes,
Speaker 1: all right. So here's the thing. I won't say the
Speaker 1: name of the institution, but I used to work in
Speaker 1: the institution, and I shared this with you and our guests.
Speaker 1: But there is a place in New York you can
Speaker 1: go and pay twenty five dollars for all you can
Speaker 1: eat buffet that includes one drink. You can choose a
Speaker 1: bloody Mary, a mimosa or agin us. That's a hint.
Speaker 1: But the gag, But the gag is on with the food.
Speaker 1: They have a raw bar, So you could pay twenty
Speaker 1: five dollars getting all you can ey buffet, including a drink,
Speaker 1: and in that buffet is oysters and clams, which I'm
Speaker 1: sorry but that is a and you steal and you're
Speaker 1: someone who is a gag loves an oyster lister, and
Speaker 1: you're someone who's like, oh my god, this is from
Speaker 1: fucking Chesapeake. You. I have had to in my years
Speaker 1: as a servitress, have had to know all about the
Speaker 1: oysters and where they come from, and what the qualities
Speaker 1: and characteristics of oysters are before we before I would
Speaker 1: love to go into it, give a quick little primmer
Speaker 1: primer on where oysters come from, what what's important in oysters?
Speaker 1: What should I look for in oysters? So oysters can
Speaker 1: come from, you know, the ocean, they can come from
Speaker 1: the Gulf, they can come from lakes. They are in lakes.
Speaker 1: Um I personally, for me, it's like if you're going
Speaker 1: to have an East Coast or West Coast oyster choice,
Speaker 1: I always go with an East Coast oyster because I
Speaker 1: want to haven't oyster. I want to taste the ocean.
Speaker 1: I want like it to be salty, and as they say, briany,
Speaker 1: which means and a lot of people don't know that,
Speaker 1: briany means like it tastes like the ocean. It's salty.
Speaker 1: That's what that is. West Coast oysters I find a
Speaker 1: very creamy and I'm not into that, and almost cucumber e,
Speaker 1: which is sort of nice. But I find them like
Speaker 1: gloopy and gloopy gloopy, and I like salty and salty
Speaker 1: and malty. I and I Gulf oysters from the Gulf
Speaker 1: of Mexico, I don't think so, honey. They taste like
Speaker 1: the mud, the mud, and it's actually really culture number eighteen.
Speaker 1: Golf oysters. They taste like the mud, the swamps and
Speaker 1: the marsh. Now I but so it doesn't really matter
Speaker 1: where it's coming from. It like like a Chesapeake oyster
Speaker 1: is the same as like a fucking Long Island sound,
Speaker 1: because as you go further up the coast they often
Speaker 1: get more salty. So I actually, whenever I have the
Speaker 1: choice and a good institution has like a heavy wide
Speaker 1: array of oysters, I will pick the furthest up so
Speaker 1: like main oysters, or even better like New Brunswick, New Brunswick, Canada, Yes, bitch,
Speaker 1: not even Jersey, not even actually never Jersey. Nova Scotia
Speaker 1: and where island Nova Scotia coming to the stage, Miss
Speaker 1: Nova Scotia. That would be good for a Canadian queen. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: Miss Saskatchewan Saskatchea one. That's my drag name, Saskawan. I
Speaker 1: think that's a ye. Yes, If I were in the
Speaker 1: House of thunder fun that would be my first name Sea. No,
Speaker 1: it's just Saskatchewan thunder Funck Alaska, Nebraska, Saskatchewan, right, I
Speaker 1: love that. Mine would be um uh Miami, which doesn't work.
Speaker 1: I guess. Let me tell you who and what works. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about our guest. But do you
Speaker 1: know't I just realized what he is someone who is
Speaker 1: truly at the intersection of everything that we like to
Speaker 1: think about it drag race. I'm not not gagged drag
Speaker 1: race like music, writing, comedy, like forget about it. It's
Speaker 1: all the best of all those things. And that's the thing,
Speaker 1: it's all the best of all those things. He is
Speaker 1: not this person who is like waiting in mediocrity like
Speaker 1: you know me, let's say, why do you do that?
Speaker 1: I'm just saying like sometimes I'm just like, oh god,
Speaker 1: I'm just like I can't even do this one thing, right,
Speaker 1: But this is someone who does all these things so
Speaker 1: well remarkable. Yeah, I don't mean, you know, I didn't
Speaker 1: myself under the bus. And you know what that really
Speaker 1: makes me uncomfortable that you did that. I'm sorry because
Speaker 1: a lot of people look up to you to see
Speaker 1: you downplay yourself in front of our guests and listen,
Speaker 1: he just used his gorgeous voice and speaking of voice,
Speaker 1: gorgeous voice, Oh my god, speaking of voice, you go,
Speaker 1: you go. No, I'm just saying, this is a fucking artist,
Speaker 1: an artist. The credits coming rolling down. Why don't you
Speaker 1: give him a songwriter for choice? Van come on collaborat
Speaker 1: Retreat Collaboratories, Selena Coli x Miss Selena, miss Selina and
Speaker 1: he has his own single out middle of a Heartbreak
Speaker 1: that I loved very good. He did a run Away
Speaker 1: with Me a Curly Jepson I adore. When when when
Speaker 1: someone's trying to cover a song taking a big swing
Speaker 1: like that, you better go better serve it, you better
Speaker 1: serve and swing for the fucking fences. And he home run,
Speaker 1: grand slam, even grand slams bigger than a home run
Speaker 1: for all you gays at home for run Away with Me,
Speaker 1: like the gay song of the last five years. Come on,
Speaker 1: and also we want to stay doing all the music
Speaker 1: for the other two, which we've been talking about on
Speaker 1: this podcast. And you know, it's because and now you
Speaker 1: know it's because you're a guide for it too. I
Speaker 1: love the show and the music is so good in
Speaker 1: the show, and excuse me. Golden Globe nominee, Golden Globe
Speaker 1: nominee for a Boy or Raise Miss Revelations. Literally such
Speaker 1: a beautiful song. Beautiful Like when I first started, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, it got me. Come on, it
Speaker 1: really got me. And this is the thing, and we're
Speaker 1: going to talk to our guests about this. But like
Speaker 1: someone who has been able to like deliver us these
Speaker 1: moments of culture, these these queer moments of culture, gag
Speaker 1: culture in the house where we are so excited you
Speaker 1: have with us, Leland. Okay, Also, you came to game
Speaker 1: show the other night, and I was gagged that you came.
Speaker 1: I had the best time. I was in tears, laughing.
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe when you showed up. I was like, hell, Loake, gorgeous,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. No, I'm in New York for the weekend,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to take advantage of everything of the culture.
Speaker 1: I am exhausted, completely exhausted. So has it been just
Speaker 1: like a lot of press for the other two, like
Speaker 1: kind of just popping around. It's been so much press.
Speaker 1: I think I've had one ten minute phone call like
Speaker 1: what how you in New York? A lot like uh
Speaker 1: more and more. One of my best friends in the
Speaker 1: world lives here. Um and I just I love being here.
Speaker 1: But now I did have some press, but I wanted
Speaker 1: to come for the premier party and just to start
Speaker 1: it with everyone. Yeah, I am so grateful to be
Speaker 1: a part of that show and everyone attached to it.
Speaker 1: And I also wanted to corner and meet Molly Shannon.
Speaker 1: Did you do this successfully? She was so lovely, so lovely.
Speaker 1: I walked was walked like, walked up to her and
Speaker 1: was playing that game of where you're behind the person.
Speaker 1: Another conversation, and her manager introduced himself to me and uh,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I worked on the show. I
Speaker 1: would love to meet Molly. And he goes, oh, let
Speaker 1: me help you, and he inserts himself into the conversation
Speaker 1: and he looks at Molly and he goes, oh, you
Speaker 1: have a piece of lint on you. Also, I'd like
Speaker 1: for you to meet Leland. And it was genius. That's
Speaker 1: so good. Was it her manager or like publicist her manager? Genius?
Speaker 1: Those managers are good at that, but that is such
Speaker 1: a good little strategy and to be like, oh, let
Speaker 1: me feel how about this, By the way, it was
Speaker 1: choreographed beautifully. She was She was so lovely and so
Speaker 1: engaging in everything. She is in my eyes, and I know,
Speaker 1: our an icon a comedy not not just a comedy icon,
Speaker 1: but like an eye cultural icon. Yeah. We talked about
Speaker 1: her with Chris and Sarah, like it's it's really cool
Speaker 1: to see someone like her who really is so talented
Speaker 1: and iconic and deserves it, have this sort of like
Speaker 1: resurgence like in Chris's film Other People. It's unbelievable just
Speaker 1: as a performance, as a tribute to to Chris's mother,
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean, Like, it's just this
Speaker 1: incredible piece of work. And she is so amazing in
Speaker 1: that film. And to see the dramatic work that she
Speaker 1: does in this show and obviously the comedy to the show,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's truly just like we're so lucky
Speaker 1: that she because you know, you you imagine that like
Speaker 1: during that time of being a woman in comedy in
Speaker 1: the nineties, it can have been easy to maintain longevity
Speaker 1: and be able to stay. But just to know that
Speaker 1: she is still one that we can watch. I'm obsessed completely.
Speaker 1: She's one of the few s I know people who
Speaker 1: got her thing to be a movie like that is
Speaker 1: a huge deal, Like that doesn't really happen anymore. And
Speaker 1: back then I feel like it was still sort of wow,
Speaker 1: it really doesn't happen, doesn't happen right like she was,
Speaker 1: she was in that last sort of moment of like
Speaker 1: essmal things becoming movies and it immediately became a cult classic.
Speaker 1: It's before it came out. Yeah, that has memes that
Speaker 1: never got the opportunity to become memes because of social media.
Speaker 1: But what didn't happen but like the smelling the armpits
Speaker 1: that would be homework and even the at least my
Speaker 1: well Evan, at least my name isn't I'm not named
Speaker 1: after bottled water, like so funny, and the end, what
Speaker 1: a triumphant ending at the Talent Show, and like such
Speaker 1: a good movie she's totally forgot about. And to know
Speaker 1: that she's as nice as she is. Yes, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I had to walk away like I had to in
Speaker 1: the conversation so incredibly sweet. Oh my god, that is
Speaker 1: what you want to hear. Yes, and you're having. I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: so you're you're here for press, you're here for the
Speaker 1: premiere of the other two. But also you were like
Speaker 1: in the thick of fucking Awards season right now, this
Speaker 1: is like you went to the goddamn Globes as a
Speaker 1: nominee a nominee, honey, And I was, I was. That
Speaker 1: was a really incredible night you were. You were telling
Speaker 1: me last night about the food drama. I didn't know
Speaker 1: there was food drama at the Gold That is what
Speaker 1: I would talk about, Like, what was So if you, um,
Speaker 1: if you have to do the red carpet, UM, you
Speaker 1: show up about fifteen minute, you get to your seats
Speaker 1: about fifteen minutes before the show starts. Lights are flashing,
Speaker 1: bells are ringing or saying everyone please take your seats.
Speaker 1: You immediately you forget that you're sitting around every celebrity everyone.
Speaker 1: Michael Douglas was next to me, Katherine Cina Jones was
Speaker 1: next to me. UM. And then you look at your
Speaker 1: table and your star struck again. And and so dinner
Speaker 1: is served an hour and a half before UM. But
Speaker 1: I took it upon myself and as a representative of
Speaker 1: my table, to ask questions, and I found the food
Speaker 1: and it's in like the back bar area. And so
Speaker 1: during a commercial break, while everyone else is running to
Speaker 1: meet celebrities, I went and loaded up two plates of
Speaker 1: sandwiches and shared them with our table. Who was that
Speaker 1: your table? Who are you sitting with? We had uh
Speaker 1: to Fur from that seventies show Lovely. We had Lena
Speaker 1: Ray Is that Lena Weight? Yeah? And she was so
Speaker 1: lovely every so, and then there were a couple of
Speaker 1: people that I did not just recognize. Um. And then
Speaker 1: they announced the nominations for Best Animation and uh it
Speaker 1: ended up that they were the directors and producers for Spiderman.
Speaker 1: And so immediately if there was a loyalty and a camarade,
Speaker 1: we were all crying. Our table one our table said
Speaker 1: we want and you did we win? You want? Yes,
Speaker 1: we want um. And that's like when the when the
Speaker 1: nominations came out. What I adore about my group of
Speaker 1: friends is instead of like posting uh an Instagram story
Speaker 1: of congratulations, like my friend Leland was nominated, it was
Speaker 1: we are nominated, and iould not want anything other than that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so you were there because you wrote the song
Speaker 1: Revelation with Troy. Yes. Yeah, Troy and Jones and Jonesy
Speaker 1: from Cigarros UM, who I love and have loved since
Speaker 1: he did the music for UM. We bought a zoo. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love this is a fan from Wow High School.
Speaker 1: He is so sweet, was so lovely to work with.
Speaker 1: And Troy called me one day and uh, and I was,
Speaker 1: I think I was on my way to a session.
Speaker 1: And he was like, what are you doing today? And
Speaker 1: I said nothing because I know I know to say.
Speaker 1: If he's calling, like thirty, there's four, it's for a reason.
Speaker 1: And and he's like, what are you doing today? And
Speaker 1: I said nothing? And he's like, do you want to
Speaker 1: come over and work on this song for Boy or Race?
Speaker 1: We have to turn it in like tonight. And I said,
Speaker 1: of course, of course, of course, and uh we went.
Speaker 1: I went over to his house and we wrote the
Speaker 1: song and then into the studio that afternoon recorded the
Speaker 1: initial version of the song for them to tempen the
Speaker 1: movie and uh. And then you know there's like a
Speaker 1: lull of where you don't really hear anything, and then
Speaker 1: you see the scene and uh. And so yeah, Troy,
Speaker 1: I am just beyond for for the many, many many
Speaker 1: things he's done. Uh. Since we started working together. But
Speaker 1: that was very special. He did not have to do
Speaker 1: that and and did, and I am so grateful for it.
Speaker 1: It's truly like that is something that has changed my life. Well,
Speaker 1: he obviously like believes in and loves your talent and
Speaker 1: like wanted you in the room. And you're like, that's incredible,
Speaker 1: so sweet, You're exceptional. So congratulations, I mean, thank you.
Speaker 1: But you're just that thing where you're just looking around
Speaker 1: and it's all these famous people is truly overwhelming. It insane,
Speaker 1: like yeah, and I don't necessarily like get star struck.
Speaker 1: It's just it's that moment of where you see all
Speaker 1: these familiar faces and you're like, wait, I don't know you,
Speaker 1: I recognize you and so and there were some great
Speaker 1: moments and met some great people. And the table next
Speaker 1: to us was Amy Poehler in my room. You know,
Speaker 1: those those are people that I get more star struck
Speaker 1: in from just because they were so much more in
Speaker 1: my life than some of the other like stars. But
Speaker 1: I mean Dick Van Dyke, for me, that was the
Speaker 1: one that I just lost it. I would I would have.
Speaker 1: It was a really good I mean just being there
Speaker 1: for that. Glenn Close speech had to be yes so incredible. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of moments that were great moments.
Speaker 1: And I also saw Bowen running around for the Golden Globes,
Speaker 1: which is insane, but just because I was out there
Speaker 1: as people were coming in and I was looking for you,
Speaker 1: I was like, where's Lee London? But then it was
Speaker 1: just this thing where it was that same thing where
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I don't know these people, but
Speaker 1: this is like so many This is so many famous
Speaker 1: people in one place, and I was like this is
Speaker 1: so overwhelming and like and it's I felt like I
Speaker 1: stepped into the TV Like it was truly truly because
Speaker 1: everywhere you look at someone different and it's like you
Speaker 1: want to like it's the thing of like don't stare
Speaker 1: ever but like totally focus. I can't land on like
Speaker 1: a neutral thing like not for nothing, like was your
Speaker 1: competitor that evening? But just to be in the same
Speaker 1: room as Gaga, I was because I had to go
Speaker 1: up to the crazy Chastion table. She was at that table,
Speaker 1: like I was like this, I was within feet of
Speaker 1: one of Gaga's assistance something like a piece of some
Speaker 1: food had fell fallen onto the dress and like sort
Speaker 1: of water really stained it, and so these assistants are
Speaker 1: like scrubbing it out of Gaga. Is just the moment
Speaker 1: to see Gaga sitting there regally like like just looking incredible,
Speaker 1: And I was like, this is that's Lady Gaga. That's
Speaker 1: like my fucking hero. And then whatever, this is all happening.
Speaker 1: But um, but my whole thing is that like the globes,
Speaker 1: like I particularly love because it's like me too. It's
Speaker 1: a comedy event. Yeah, it feels low stakes. It's low stakes,
Speaker 1: it's fun, it's boozy. Um. But I think my favorite
Speaker 1: moment of the night was on the red carpet. There's
Speaker 1: where they like send you off to do the actual
Speaker 1: step and repeat alone. No publicist, now, no one can
Speaker 1: go with you. It's just just talent, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: And so Troy and I find ourselves in this line
Speaker 1: and uh, in front of us is John c Riley
Speaker 1: and uh no, but step Brothers. It's one of my
Speaker 1: favorite movies. Um and then uh Carrie Russell. And then
Speaker 1: behind us, who walked right up was Trag p Henson.
Speaker 1: She looked yeah, she she doesn't show up looking at
Speaker 1: anything less. No, And so we had a good fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes of like lead time conversation before you step onto
Speaker 1: the carpet, and there's three points where you you stop
Speaker 1: you take pictures. They say shift, you move to your
Speaker 1: next point, take picture shift and uh, and so we
Speaker 1: had quite a bit of time for like Troy Tarraggi
Speaker 1: and myself to chat and she was so lovely. We
Speaker 1: were like, oh, this is this is our first time
Speaker 1: and she goes, oh my gosh. She's like, I've only
Speaker 1: been here three times. She was so lovely, so sweet,
Speaker 1: and then uh, we let her go ahead of us
Speaker 1: on the for the photo of and because we wanted
Speaker 1: to watch. And so she's like just chatty, chatty, chatty,
Speaker 1: and then steps out and they announced her name hand
Speaker 1: on her hip SMIs Troy and I audibly screamed and distracted,
Speaker 1: like we accidentally distracted her initial moment but she loved it.
Speaker 1: But we audibly screamed because it was it was just
Speaker 1: a moment watching the movie star becoming the movie star. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And then she inspired me and I had my moment
Speaker 1: and Troy screamed for me and I screamad it was
Speaker 1: really it was just that was a really fun moment.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you who else looked absolutely beautiful. I think
Speaker 1: the best dressed well I will shout out Nicole Nicole,
Speaker 1: and she never plays on the red carpet Miss Regina, kid,
Speaker 1: Gina King, that pink, that rose metallic, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that stunning. I think new is is it knows she's winning,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and showing up. She's collecting hardware,
Speaker 1: collecting hardware. Um now I okay, so let's get into it.
Speaker 1: I am just so in of like everything that you do.
Speaker 1: Talk about how you got your start with songwriting, I
Speaker 1: mean like whatever, it's so so basic, but like what
Speaker 1: is your day to day like, just take a walk through,
Speaker 1: Like how do you find yourself in the position not
Speaker 1: even working with yes, I mean running your own stuff? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I am from South Mississippi, and so from
Speaker 1: the time of growing up, I just tried to take
Speaker 1: advantage of every single opportunity, all the songwriting opportunities offered
Speaker 1: in South Mississippi, um and uh and would do things
Speaker 1: like open up for Jesse McCartney at the mall. And
Speaker 1: I still remember like running racing to Buckle to buy
Speaker 1: a shirt before the performance, and um and performing and
Speaker 1: things like the Mrs Mississippi Pageant, I was the entertainment
Speaker 1: at the local casino and that was a big moment.
Speaker 1: That was a big moment. It was ridiculous. Um and uh.
Speaker 1: And then when I went to school, I went to
Speaker 1: college in Nashville at Belmont and there was very much
Speaker 1: a culture of songwriting there and everyone there were They
Speaker 1: had showcases, the Pop Showcase. My mom was so smart.
Speaker 1: She wanted me to go to a Christian school and
Speaker 1: so she was genius. She brought me to visit the
Speaker 1: school the weekend the Pop Showcase was happening, and so
Speaker 1: I was that was it. I looked at the state
Speaker 1: I have to be. She knew, she knew, she knew
Speaker 1: and uh. So I ended up going to Belmont. And
Speaker 1: because they had the Pop Showcase, Urban Showcase, Christian Showcase Country,
Speaker 1: our whole group of friends were made up of people
Speaker 1: who sang all those all that type of music. So
Speaker 1: I became the songwriter that wrote songs for all of
Speaker 1: them to perform in those showcases. So I would co
Speaker 1: write with friends and or write songs alone and uh
Speaker 1: and then would go to these showcases and see our
Speaker 1: friends perform these songs. And that was my first taste
Speaker 1: of writing for another artist. Writing for someone else and
Speaker 1: ended up through um, through the woman who was in
Speaker 1: charge of the MISSRS Mississippi pageant. She worked at a
Speaker 1: casino in South Mississippi and uh and a songwriting manager
Speaker 1: came through one time and she gave him my information.
Speaker 1: He reached out to me. I sent him a couple
Speaker 1: of songs and he ended up getting me a publishing deal. Wow.
Speaker 1: The strangest it was not a Nashville connection that ended
Speaker 1: up getting me actually into the songwriting community like world.
Speaker 1: It was through It was through the director of the
Speaker 1: Mississippi pache Wow. Wow, How how old are you at
Speaker 1: that point? I was twenty that it was just a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. Yeah, But is that like a
Speaker 1: weird not weird? Is that like just like a full
Speaker 1: circle thing where you were like, Oh, this gig that
Speaker 1: I thought was just like I'll do I'll do whatever,
Speaker 1: I'll do whatever I can and in that bore fruit
Speaker 1: in this other incredible way that I will never forget her.
Speaker 1: I have to. I'll thank her in here, not now,
Speaker 1: Sharon Coleman, come thank you. Um Yeah. And then so
Speaker 1: I moved as soon as I graduated. One of the
Speaker 1: hardest things I've ever done. Was like, leave my whole
Speaker 1: group of friends in Nashville and moved to l A.
Speaker 1: And uh, and then I thought moving to l A.
Speaker 1: Genuinely thought, I'm going to be here two months in
Speaker 1: right for Beyonce. I have a publishing deal. I'm in.
Speaker 1: It's the same publisher as her, John Platt, who signed
Speaker 1: me to my first publishing deal, signed Beyonce, signed jay Z,
Speaker 1: signed Drake. He is a legend, He's an he's amazing. Um,
Speaker 1: and I saw, like, I'm going to move to l
Speaker 1: A and write for Beyonce. It's over. It's not like
Speaker 1: totally out of pity. I had a lot of I
Speaker 1: grew up listening only to Christian music, not by choice.
Speaker 1: We've heard that a lot on this podcast. Really so interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean all of my first concerts. If I like
Speaker 1: said my actual first concert, it would that I count
Speaker 1: consider my first it would be Britney Spears. But my
Speaker 1: actual first one was a Christian boy band. Called for him,
Speaker 1: for him, Yes, I love that and I'm for him.
Speaker 1: But um but yeah, so then that did not happen.
Speaker 1: I did not write for Beyonce and uh, and I
Speaker 1: would love to that is of course, like on the
Speaker 1: bucket list. And I truly feel like anything is possible,
Speaker 1: especially with the things that I've somehow been able to
Speaker 1: find my way into. Um, I truly feel like anything,
Speaker 1: anything is possible. But um no, I had to hustle
Speaker 1: in l A. I worked a million jobs. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would say I was in l A for probably
Speaker 1: five years before I made a dime from songwriting. Wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: what did you do? I catered? I catered. Uh, I
Speaker 1: catered the Golden Globe after party at the hotel. At
Speaker 1: the hotel, what a fucking amazing, full circle thing. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that just like, did you go over to the
Speaker 1: caters of the party and say, you guys are all revelation?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I did. Actually I catered. I catered
Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian's wedding to Chris Humphrey. Well, I am on
Speaker 1: the E special. What did it feel? Weird? Of course,
Speaker 1: they didn't tell us what we were going to, but
Speaker 1: I figured ou out. I googled it in the bus
Speaker 1: on the way there. I knew where we were going,
Speaker 1: I knew the day was happening. Um and that was
Speaker 1: crazy and uh and I had the best time. Actually,
Speaker 1: I felt like a guest there were so many servers
Speaker 1: there was I didn't but and I actually had. Um,
Speaker 1: I had the Jenner table. Oh my god, yeah, I
Speaker 1: had the Jenner table. There was a moment where, um,
Speaker 1: where Kathy Hilton and I are holding a chair as
Speaker 1: christ Janry standing on it dancing. Everyone was It was
Speaker 1: such a lovely experience, like it really was. Earthwen and
Speaker 1: Fire was the wedding band. I mean, come on, Robin
Speaker 1: Thicke was played the first dance it was. I had
Speaker 1: a great time. That sounds amazing. Yeah, yeah, Um. I
Speaker 1: catered the v m as and my friends were not andated.
Speaker 1: I gave champagne to Lady Gaga, like I, yeah, You've
Speaker 1: had some amazing moments, both catering and as a guest. Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And I made a lot of actually made a lot
Speaker 1: of my friends through catering because it's all like it's
Speaker 1: all actors or comedians or whoever. And uh, we had
Speaker 1: a really good time, and so I catered. I taught
Speaker 1: songwriting into college for three years. Um. I was an
Speaker 1: assistant to the director of pinny X. I wrote some
Speaker 1: of the jingles songs in the background of pinan X,
Speaker 1: I like I'm I'm exhausted I have done and now
Speaker 1: that's just like three of the thirty jobs that I
Speaker 1: did during that time. Um, and then finally like but
Speaker 1: and I always thought too. I was like, it's going
Speaker 1: to work out. It's going to work out, even if
Speaker 1: it's like two or three, four or five, six, seven years,
Speaker 1: And thankfully it did. Yeah yeah, I mean yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's fucking how it goes. And everyone that I always UM,
Speaker 1: some people will ask, like, I want to move to
Speaker 1: New York, but I don't know how. I'm like, literally,
Speaker 1: no one knows. No one knows how to move to
Speaker 1: New York. Like you just you have to work jobs
Speaker 1: that you may not like, and you have to grind
Speaker 1: and do one thing every day that reminds you while
Speaker 1: you're there. Absolutely, that was my That was my rule
Speaker 1: for myself. Sounds like every single day, no matter if
Speaker 1: I was busy doing something else, I'm going to do
Speaker 1: see feel like, just one thing every day that reminds
Speaker 1: you of what you're there to do. Exacts you simply
Speaker 1: make it work. When we made Troy's first album, I
Speaker 1: had a full time job and they didn't know that.
Speaker 1: I didn't really tell anyone neighborhood yeah. I didn't tell anyone.
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh yeah, the sessions at one
Speaker 1: pm on Wednesday. I will be there. I'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I would whenever I would book something,
Speaker 1: I booked a recurring thing. Uh this is a year ago.
Speaker 1: By the way, John Klazer loves Gear. You can watch
Speaker 1: it now on True TV. But I was I had
Speaker 1: to ask for work off. I was like, well and
Speaker 1: like that was like a huge battle and like they
Speaker 1: were very very generous and like with my time. But
Speaker 1: it was like this thing where it was like I was,
Speaker 1: I had a nine to five of until like six
Speaker 1: months ago, where it's just you go and like you
Speaker 1: you might not like this version of your life yet,
Speaker 1: but like you invest in stee have completely. So then
Speaker 1: what was your form of like doing Maybe it wasn't
Speaker 1: one thing a date, but like what were your little
Speaker 1: pockets of time that you could steal, Like like what
Speaker 1: would you be doing? Like it was still just treating
Speaker 1: myself like I was a working songwriter, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: I would write songs at night, write songs on the weekends,
Speaker 1: and I was setting up sessions and running my calendar
Speaker 1: like I was a working writer and I would take
Speaker 1: meetings with my publisher because I was still published at
Speaker 1: the time. Um, and you know, there were moments where
Speaker 1: I could tell they were frustrated because I didn't have
Speaker 1: a lot of availability, but they also understood that I
Speaker 1: was doing what I needed to do and I think
Speaker 1: they respected that. Um. Yeah, So I would just write songs,
Speaker 1: and thankfully one of those sessions we would get paid
Speaker 1: also to I mean, I was like, I need a
Speaker 1: hundred bucks, two hundred bucks, whatever, and we would get
Speaker 1: paid to write songs with young artists who wanted to
Speaker 1: come or whose parents whose parents would send them to
Speaker 1: l A to like write song for a weekend or whatever. So, um,
Speaker 1: one of my friend Gino called and he said, Hey,
Speaker 1: there is this girl who's here for the weekend. I
Speaker 1: used to teach your voice in Pittsburgh. Do you want
Speaker 1: to come and write a song with us? And I
Speaker 1: was like absolutely and went and we wrote a song
Speaker 1: and about realistic, like forty five minutes. I was like,
Speaker 1: so nice to me and everyone. I have to go
Speaker 1: back to work, love you guys. And that song ended
Speaker 1: up being Hideaway by Daia. Oh my god. Uh and
Speaker 1: it was and that was that I love that I
Speaker 1: love her and I love that song. I love her.
Speaker 1: She is a gem. She is so talented. I love
Speaker 1: I can't say enough good things about her. She knows
Speaker 1: I love her and uh and so that ended up
Speaker 1: being that song and yeah, the break and shortly after that,
Speaker 1: I think, within like a few weeks of Hideaway coming
Speaker 1: out or Hideaway doing well on radio, youth came out
Speaker 1: and started doing well. And so I was teaching. It
Speaker 1: was so special and so I was teaching at the
Speaker 1: college at the time. So I was teaching a voice
Speaker 1: lesson uh and and had like two songs on the
Speaker 1: radio at the time, and I was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why. Let's there's I see a light at the
Speaker 1: end of the time. How did you meet Troy. I'm
Speaker 1: at Troy through one of my dear friends, Tyler Oakley.
Speaker 1: Ty the potential I will make. I promise I will
Speaker 1: make that. We both had such positive interactions with him
Speaker 1: on Twitter for our respective antics, so I would love Yes,
Speaker 1: Tyler is. Tyler is like I mean, people through this tournament,
Speaker 1: but he's like a true connector. He connects people in
Speaker 1: this way. I had no idea so great. So he
Speaker 1: just like he was like, Tyler is one of my
Speaker 1: best friends for five or six years. He's one of
Speaker 1: the first people I met when I moved to l A.
Speaker 1: And when he moved to l A. And um, and
Speaker 1: so I remember he said, my best friend Troy is
Speaker 1: about to be in l A. He is a new artist.
Speaker 1: You to write with him. And he told Troy the
Speaker 1: st he like, my friend Brett is a songwriter or
Speaker 1: Leland as a songwriter. You need to me. So Tyler.
Speaker 1: I was playing shows in l A at the time,
Speaker 1: and Tyler brought Troy and we snuck Troy in because
Speaker 1: he was under age and uh, and I think he
Speaker 1: was like also seventeen. And so my friend Ali, who
Speaker 1: ran the club, uh, looked at Troy and she was like,
Speaker 1: don't you pick up any alcohol because she didn't want
Speaker 1: to get fired, you know, and uh. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: it was Tyler that really connected us and we wrote
Speaker 1: a few days later for the first time. So anytime
Speaker 1: something special happens, like with whether Troy and I are
Speaker 1: a part of something, I always still like think Tyler
Speaker 1: because he connected those doughts and made that happen. So
Speaker 1: when you guys are working together in the studio and
Speaker 1: you guys are wherever you guys are writing, so, um,
Speaker 1: is there one of you guys? Does he come with
Speaker 1: like a general idea of what he wants to say?
Speaker 1: Like does he come with lyrics? Like how does that work?
Speaker 1: I mean it's different every single time, as I'm sure,
Speaker 1: like collaborating with people varies and how idea starts. Um.
Speaker 1: But sometimes yeah, he'll have he he will have the title,
Speaker 1: he'll have a story or nothing and we just talk. Uh,
Speaker 1: and we just talked about what's going on in his
Speaker 1: life or my life or another co writer who's in
Speaker 1: the room, or a story that we heard. But generally,
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say everything every single song that's
Speaker 1: ended up on an album has been authentic to him
Speaker 1: about something going on in his life, and so it will.
Speaker 1: It can also start with one of us sitting down
Speaker 1: at the piano and starting a melody maybe that inspires something. Um.
Speaker 1: We both have I have lists of titles or words
Speaker 1: in my phone, um, and so does he, or lyrics
Speaker 1: or poetry that we look through and um. But then
Speaker 1: also sometimes it's like it's also not that deep, like
Speaker 1: sometimes it is and then sometimes it's not. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: I mean from I can it's it's very interesting like
Speaker 1: I do not music in the way that you do it,
Speaker 1: but like music in the way that I do it
Speaker 1: for like comedy purposes. But it's so interesting, Like sometimes
Speaker 1: the stuff that you really will work was written in
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes exact, and then you can labor over something forever.
Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with sketches or comedic ideas.
Speaker 1: It's like the stuff that you labor over often like
Speaker 1: will just never be with these things that fly out
Speaker 1: of you. And then I sometimes I'll forget even why
Speaker 1: I thought of it, you know what I mean? Like, So,
Speaker 1: how much of Bloomer you want? Is that I did?
Speaker 1: I did eight out of ten songs, CO wrote with
Speaker 1: him eight out of ten songs, and then we worked
Speaker 1: with like Max Martin's team on some of that. It
Speaker 1: was insane. That is insane. Neither of us take that
Speaker 1: for granted. Yeah, we had written quite a few songs
Speaker 1: for bloom and then uh, and then we took a
Speaker 1: very quick four day trip to Stockholm, and two he
Speaker 1: was not there, but his team he has producers that
Speaker 1: are amazing, Oscar Gore. They're all Oscar different uh and
Speaker 1: so yes, the Oscars, they're called the Wolf Cousins. Is
Speaker 1: the term, like the collective. And so we were there
Speaker 1: for four days and there's not there's a little of
Speaker 1: this pressure being like, Okay, we hopefully we'll leave with singles,
Speaker 1: but also we just want to write great songs and
Speaker 1: if we don't, it's okay, like as long as we
Speaker 1: leave with a good song. So Stockholm was where you
Speaker 1: go to kind of get that and udering that trip.
Speaker 1: The first day of writing I think it was the
Speaker 1: first day we wrote My My mid and we had
Speaker 1: that feeling and we actually celebrated by drinking champagne and
Speaker 1: eating oysters. Yea, I love knowing that Troy loves an oyster.
Speaker 1: That's phenomenal. Okay, so my my my, you're right, and
Speaker 1: you're kind of like, okay, this is It just felt
Speaker 1: special and it felt different, and it just felt very
Speaker 1: him and that's the most important thing always and uh.
Speaker 1: And then the next day we wrote Bloom Wow and uh.
Speaker 1: And we wrote it with Peter Spenson from the card
Speaker 1: Against Oh Yes, I love the card again. Oh my
Speaker 1: gosh that working with him, Yes, I bowed down. It
Speaker 1: was so special. But Peter and Oscar Holter, who produced
Speaker 1: Runaway with Me, who produced Bloom, they were really focused
Speaker 1: on melody and production, and Troy and I were working
Speaker 1: on the lyrics, and so they really didn't know what
Speaker 1: we were writing about. And so we were giggling in
Speaker 1: the back of the room like what we were writing about,
Speaker 1: and we thought, like, the song will never see the
Speaker 1: lot of days. Let's just have fun with it, and
Speaker 1: it's such important. It's such an important I mean, you
Speaker 1: know what, it's a fun song. You know. We had
Speaker 1: this guy, Scott Thompson on this podcast and he is
Speaker 1: like an iconic gay sketch comedian, like back from the
Speaker 1: Kids in the Hall years ago, and we were talking
Speaker 1: to him about how you know, he had this theory
Speaker 1: where he was like, gay men can be stars, can't
Speaker 1: be stars, gay men habit have everything stacked against them
Speaker 1: in terms of these things. And it's because of sodomy.
Speaker 1: It's because no one wants to acknowledge the way that
Speaker 1: we have sex is disgusted. And that's because from where
Speaker 1: he from, when he came from, that was a time
Speaker 1: when there was no male male representation really any media,
Speaker 1: and there was kind of an ick factor around the
Speaker 1: way that we have sex. So then so then we
Speaker 1: both tell him about bloom and he starts to get
Speaker 1: really fucking. It was emotional because that's you have to understand, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's why I say it's important. It's because, like,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody, I was at a comedy show the
Speaker 1: other night and they referred to anal sex as a kink,
Speaker 1: and so I got up after him and I was
Speaker 1: like just singing, I said it light harder, but I
Speaker 1: was like, anal sex is not a kink. That's actually
Speaker 1: how we make love. And I was like, hi, and
Speaker 1: you have something up your asshole that is, But baby,
Speaker 1: I was lighthearted about it. But the thing is, like,
Speaker 1: you know, that song is the first time that you
Speaker 1: that we hear really gay man singing about having sex
Speaker 1: the way that everyone else has been able to. And
Speaker 1: so that really is like a moment. And the fact
Speaker 1: that that's like a mainstream hit song, that's fuck you
Speaker 1: wed part that you created it. You created it. We
Speaker 1: explained me, like, this is it's a pop song that's
Speaker 1: doing very well. It's about anal sex. It's about gay
Speaker 1: men having anal sex. He was speech from the bottom's perspective,
Speaker 1: and it was like he truly like this comedy legend
Speaker 1: superstar who feels and he thought, because he then it
Speaker 1: felt to him like, oh maybe things could change. So
Speaker 1: you guys, you guys like did something so cool. I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful to be a part of it too. And
Speaker 1: yeah that I think Bloom the title itself with something
Speaker 1: Troy had run in that day. From the title, that's
Speaker 1: just such a great and it's a bop. It's a
Speaker 1: fucking bob baby. And I love the lyrics. I was
Speaker 1: when it first came out before before I really, I mean,
Speaker 1: I was just kind of like listening to the lyrics
Speaker 1: and I was like, this is like a very very
Speaker 1: sexy song, Like it's just real. He looks so stunning
Speaker 1: in the music video. The video is h my gosh
Speaker 1: from my my mind too. That's icon insane there. It's
Speaker 1: very rare that as a writer you feel like the
Speaker 1: video just because budgets are so hard to get approved
Speaker 1: and also videos happened last minute most of the time,
Speaker 1: so it's very rare that as a writer you look
Speaker 1: at the song and you look at the video and
Speaker 1: you're like, this video like does the song justice? Um.
Speaker 1: But with every Troy video, especially My My My, especially
Speaker 1: Bloom Dance to this Lucky Strike, the video that just
Speaker 1: came out. I mean it. It is the perfect visual component.
Speaker 1: It's no joke with my my My. I mean some
Speaker 1: I'll shade her right now because I don't care. Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1: The music video for Style is so wrong. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is all wrong. And that's how you know she's
Speaker 1: gotten like too big for anyone to tell her, like no,
Speaker 1: or maybe she just trusted whatever director that was because
Speaker 1: I hear the song. The song is unning and that's why.
Speaker 1: But I see, like, honestly, like her in a fucking
Speaker 1: like car with the top down in Miami, honey dressed
Speaker 1: in all black having a night out and like maybe
Speaker 1: going to see her dude instead of hanging out with
Speaker 1: her girls, like I see the video in my head,
Speaker 1: and then to see her like in THEO with a
Speaker 1: blue sky. No, it's just projections on her like whatever.
Speaker 1: It's it's like there's a concept. They're fine, Oh that's
Speaker 1: out of the woods. I was thinking of, yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: but but it's so true. I watched My My My,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, this is it's almost like syn aesthetic.
Speaker 1: It's like this is what I saw in my mind
Speaker 1: and it's what you picture when you're listening to a
Speaker 1: song like that in your bedroom and the shower and
Speaker 1: you're like you're feeling it. Yeah, and that kind the
Speaker 1: dancing that he does, just and the shots the angles
Speaker 1: him uh in the beginning of the second verse, uh
Speaker 1: uh sparked up buzz between your teeth forget. He's upside down.
Speaker 1: The red light is hitting him like, and he's just
Speaker 1: like it's brand new. It's brand new. It's it's brand new,
Speaker 1: and like it's crazy. We've seen so much so to
Speaker 1: be able to say that something is brand new, that's
Speaker 1: like fucking cool, like I haven't like honestly, it almost
Speaker 1: threw me back to like, like I wonder what George
Speaker 1: Michael would think of Troy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I think you'd be fucking proud as fuck. I think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Troy did an interview I think it was for Out
Speaker 1: where Elton John interviewed him. Wow, and I mean I
Speaker 1: cry at everything. It's because it can be it can
Speaker 1: be like overwhelming in a really good way, especially when
Speaker 1: I come from a very conservative Christian home in South Mississippi,
Speaker 1: so to be a part of things like this is
Speaker 1: incredibly overwhelming. And Uh, there was a moment where Elton
Speaker 1: Troy brought up Elton's writing partner, and Elton was like, yes,
Speaker 1: we've been writing for I think at this point like
Speaker 1: forty years and uh and Troy brought me up and said, well,
Speaker 1: I hope to be writing with my writing partner for
Speaker 1: that one and that and that killed yea, it was
Speaker 1: so special, and you know, I don't we're not writing anymore.
Speaker 1: But now I'm getting in about two months. But I'll yeah,
Speaker 1: like so this is It sounds like a stupid question,
Speaker 1: but like what do you guy? Did you guys when
Speaker 1: you guys are like hanging out and not writing music,
Speaker 1: do you what are you guys doing? I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: just fascinated by Troy. We are we I think are
Speaker 1: very similar in that and I'm grateful we connected his
Speaker 1: friends first and his collaborators, but but we're very similar
Speaker 1: that we don't typically go out. Um I'm having I
Speaker 1: had that chapter in in l A like years ago,
Speaker 1: but um yeah, yeah, yeah, we have seen. But that's
Speaker 1: why my phone is cracked because Matt dropped it in Weho.
Speaker 1: I just got black out drunk in who and read Damn,
Speaker 1: I like fucking destroyed my phone. I have to fix
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I yes, I have a scar on
Speaker 1: my wrist from Halloween and we have about a scar
Speaker 1: front our title about scar. Uh. But no, we just
Speaker 1: like hang out at my place or at his, or
Speaker 1: go to get sushi or very low key just and
Speaker 1: just talking. You know. I was actually reading an interview
Speaker 1: with him where he said that he like working with
Speaker 1: Ariana and like watching her be one person and then
Speaker 1: become the pop star in a moment like you just
Speaker 1: said with Taraji before, Like that is cool and he
Speaker 1: must do that too. He's got you guys learned from Tara.
Speaker 1: We did. We all did in that moment. We we
Speaker 1: and we just did too. When he said that I
Speaker 1: snapped my hand on my head. You didn't see it,
Speaker 1: but did you did do that? I should ask the question. Well,
Speaker 1: I just want I just before we move on, I
Speaker 1: just want like, do you what what is your hope for? Like, um,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm going to call it queer music, even
Speaker 1: though it's not music for queer people necessarily, it's music
Speaker 1: for everybody. But like, because you're part of this and
Speaker 1: you you are putting yourself out there as a performer
Speaker 1: and you're writing for other people, you're writing for yourself like,
Speaker 1: what is your hope in the next let's say, just
Speaker 1: ten years or just the general future, Like what do
Speaker 1: you hope changes are stays the same? Or like my
Speaker 1: hope is that just good music rises to the top
Speaker 1: no matter where it's coming from. Um, no matter who
Speaker 1: is singing it, as long as obviously, as long as
Speaker 1: the person is not problematic and promoting hate or anything
Speaker 1: like that. But I don't like, as long if someone
Speaker 1: is making good music, good music, put it in the spotlight. Yes,
Speaker 1: that that really is. Like, I know it's such a
Speaker 1: general answer, but that is how I feel, because there's
Speaker 1: obviously a lot of work to be done. But in
Speaker 1: my community of songwriters that I come from, I am
Speaker 1: surrounded by talented LGBTQ people who are songwriting, who are
Speaker 1: who are writing songs that I adore and are like
Speaker 1: the soundtrack to my life, and I know other people's lives.
Speaker 1: So I just think if people are writing good songs,
Speaker 1: like hopefully it can have a moment. You know, one
Speaker 1: of the most prolific country music songwriters his name Shane mcinally,
Speaker 1: and he's gay, and he writes so many, so many
Speaker 1: amazing songs. And he's gay and he writes country music.
Speaker 1: Shane is wonderful. Yes, yeah, he's so talented. So if
Speaker 1: you would love to have him, you should, and he
Speaker 1: would love to be on I know that he so
Speaker 1: if you don't follow him on Instagram, in immediately follow him.
Speaker 1: His kids are hilarious, he is hilarious. His husband is precious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are so much fun there you go. Number one
Speaker 1: is Kelly Kelly. Yes, yes, yes, uh yes. So he's amazing.
Speaker 1: And not only is he one of Nashville's arguably could
Speaker 1: be the biggest songwriter in Nashville, but he owns his
Speaker 1: own publishing company. He's a writer signed to him, so
Speaker 1: there are hits that he may not have co written,
Speaker 1: but he's still making money off of because the writers
Speaker 1: are signed him. And I that's something that I respect,
Speaker 1: is that he is building an empire. There. There's the
Speaker 1: moment on in Nashville. There's Music Row, so there's two
Speaker 1: one way streets um that run parallel, and all the
Speaker 1: houses are publishing companies or record labels or whatever. So
Speaker 1: you know you've made it as a company when you
Speaker 1: buy your spot on Music Row. And Shane's company is
Speaker 1: called Smack and he bought the most beautiful office renovated
Speaker 1: at everything on music row, and that is such a
Speaker 1: special moment. It signifies a lot, it signifies a shift.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more evolving that needs to happen. But
Speaker 1: of course, but it's it's just it's great, but it's cool.
Speaker 1: It's it's cool to see in country. I mean, the
Speaker 1: man writes for everyone everyone, men, women like and it's
Speaker 1: just like it gives me hope for country music because
Speaker 1: I always and you know what it's when will we
Speaker 1: see a gay country music star? I don't know, but
Speaker 1: like it gives me hope that at least you know,
Speaker 1: we're hearing like where it comes from here and those yeah,
Speaker 1: and those those country stars are at there, yeah, but
Speaker 1: like you know, they're they're just it's a tough genre.
Speaker 1: It's a tough genre. But um, I so what but
Speaker 1: with your with what you're saying, which is like you
Speaker 1: just hope for good music to rise to the top,
Speaker 1: is it that you don't want it to be bogged
Speaker 1: down by a million other things that have to do
Speaker 1: with the marketing or just with the way that it's
Speaker 1: presented or completely and and just exposure and what gets covered,
Speaker 1: just like not a song getting so much exposure because
Speaker 1: who the artist is, even if it's a bad song.
Speaker 1: So it's just people, uh are just giving great songs
Speaker 1: an opportunity. You know. I looked at do you know
Speaker 1: how they do those like year end Spotify lists, like
Speaker 1: it said my top female artists, I forget who actually
Speaker 1: was probably Kim Petris, and then my top male artist.
Speaker 1: It was a tie between Troy Savon and Bradley Cooper
Speaker 1: because I listened to Shallows so many times and like
Speaker 1: worn out the Stars Born soundtrack, but Troy was tied.
Speaker 1: So it was and it was like your critics choice moment.
Speaker 1: It was very that Troy is the guy. Ironically, Troy's
Speaker 1: the Gaga and Bradley's the Glen right in that situation,
Speaker 1: Yesaga is not the Bradley. No no, the no that's
Speaker 1: Troy has written all over him. Oh my god. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be kind of like you can go to these
Speaker 1: awards shows and like if you are at this time,
Speaker 1: we don't know if it's up for an Oscar. It
Speaker 1: could be the song Revelations, but um, not to drinks.
Speaker 1: But it's cool to kind of go to those things
Speaker 1: and know that something like Shallow is in the race,
Speaker 1: which is like winning everything. We went with such low pressure, right,
Speaker 1: I mean that we were just there to have a
Speaker 1: good time. Yeah, it was so and that's fun. But
Speaker 1: think about this, like in the history of music and
Speaker 1: in like queer songwriting. I keep calling it, you know,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, You're gonna look back
Speaker 1: on this. People are gonna look back on this and say,
Speaker 1: oh my god, wasn't it so cool that Shallow was nominated?
Speaker 1: Like it was like the category sister of Shallow was
Speaker 1: like Revelation by Troy by leland by Jones, like like
Speaker 1: you are in that story. Like that is part of
Speaker 1: the narrative for this year, which is such a I
Speaker 1: think a landmark year for for representation for a film
Speaker 1: for like you know, it's like you be Human, Rapsody,
Speaker 1: green Book, I mean, for for whatever you think about
Speaker 1: these movies ban Raapsody, green Book, Shall Shallow called it Shallow,
Speaker 1: Stars Born, um Boy Raised. It's like these are all
Speaker 1: queer movies and like and also you know, outside of
Speaker 1: that representation across the board, I mean, Black Panther, Black Klansman,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's overall, it's been an exciting year. That's why,
Speaker 1: like once they started naming the best of the year.
Speaker 1: It's like they picked that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like come on people, sure, but we'll see
Speaker 1: how it checks out anyway. But um, I do want
Speaker 1: to ask one more thing. So with Boyer Race, had
Speaker 1: you seen the movie and then you guys write the
Speaker 1: song or was he like, this is what the song is?
Speaker 1: We saw the specific scene, um and uh, and then
Speaker 1: you know, we knew what it was about. And obviously
Speaker 1: Troyes in the movie as well, so you had the
Speaker 1: experience already of filming the movie. Being very familiar with
Speaker 1: the script inspired yes, and we knew what the director
Speaker 1: Joel wanted wanted from that moment that we looked at
Speaker 1: the materials for the Conversion camp when we were looking
Speaker 1: writing the song, and the last time I've seen those
Speaker 1: materials was when I had been like sent them as
Speaker 1: an option, and so that was that was very strange.
Speaker 1: But also it was like, wow, I it's however ten
Speaker 1: years later and I am a proud, like out and
Speaker 1: proud gay man, and so it was a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like this is the thing is that you just have
Speaker 1: to confront whatever the darkest things are. This is something
Speaker 1: I keep saying, you just have to confront these things
Speaker 1: or else they will just eat away at you. I'm
Speaker 1: realizing that I have not even really had an honest
Speaker 1: conversation with my parents about going to conversion therapy. Well,
Speaker 1: I think both parties have to be ready to have
Speaker 1: that conversation. I am pretty ready. It's it's it's I
Speaker 1: think I think balls in their court now, and like,
Speaker 1: but that's where I am too. Yeah, and so but
Speaker 1: like that's like the power of like what you're doing,
Speaker 1: you know, It's like it's like it's like that's making
Speaker 1: me think about that. But it's like bloom is this
Speaker 1: landmark thing in the culture. Like like I know that
Speaker 1: you say that you get overwhelmed at this probably sometimes,
Speaker 1: but like that is incredible already what your career and
Speaker 1: it starts conversations. I mean, like just you know, someone
Speaker 1: like Nicole Kidman being in that movie, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm very grateful for that because you know, Nicole Kimon
Speaker 1: can go on any talk show she wants, and she
Speaker 1: can bring this film to the masses. And you know
Speaker 1: it also has Russell Crowe, um it has a choice
Speaker 1: of on in it. Lucas had just who is who
Speaker 1: is becoming a big deal. And Jill Edgerton, the actor
Speaker 1: who's not a small actor, who's also now this great director,
Speaker 1: and so just this big name talent like giving everything
Speaker 1: they have to this kind of film so that people
Speaker 1: can hear the story and also to know that it
Speaker 1: wasn't the only film about conversion therapy out this year
Speaker 1: there Cameron Post and um, you know, just to know
Speaker 1: that we're really tackling this, because I do think it's
Speaker 1: a scientology esque situation where it's like, we must get
Speaker 1: rid of this. I mean, it's people's lives. As of
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago, it was the law pass
Speaker 1: to New York banning conversion therapy, but that means now
Speaker 1: because the phrase that I've been saying is it's still
Speaker 1: legal in thirty six states but not thirty five, which
Speaker 1: is incredible. But yeah, I mean, and you can if
Speaker 1: you're you have to find out if you're living in
Speaker 1: a state where conversion therapy still legal. And never forget
Speaker 1: that our vice president at this moment, you know, he's
Speaker 1: someone who thinks this works, and his evil life is
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but teaching like whatever fucking art class or
Speaker 1: whatever at schools that do not allow LGBT people at
Speaker 1: all to be involved all and never stopped talking about
Speaker 1: this because it is not normal. I understand so many
Speaker 1: things about this are not normal, but this is a
Speaker 1: threat to our community in a big way. It's one
Speaker 1: of the biggest I mean, and thankfully you have come
Speaker 1: out on the other side. And like some people don't
Speaker 1: some people do not, don't don't. And that's in the
Speaker 1: film and in the book. Um also, imagine teaching an
Speaker 1: art class with no queerheads. The worst you have bad pictures.
Speaker 1: Imagine the art fair terrible. I wouldn't hang it up
Speaker 1: by my wall or any I wouldn't hang it up
Speaker 1: on my worst enemies wall. There you straight art? No
Speaker 1: straight art. That's another maybe title. There should be no
Speaker 1: straight art. And Leland's joining in. Okay, you must, we
Speaker 1: must Okay. Now I think it's time to ask the question.
Speaker 1: It's time to ask the question. Here we are. The
Speaker 1: question is Leland, what was the culture that made you
Speaker 1: say culturist? For me? Which is what is the formative?
Speaker 1: And you can be multiple answers, formative pieces of media
Speaker 1: or just your environment. It could just be like your upbringing,
Speaker 1: um uh, in a in a religious setting where it's
Speaker 1: like these things that moved you into the place that
Speaker 1: you are now, your touchstones, touchstones. Um, it was very
Speaker 1: much The Medley and Mrs doubt Fire where he is
Speaker 1: being made a woman from the moment the door opens,
Speaker 1: he knocks on the door Uncle Frank and at Jack
Speaker 1: and he goes, can you make me a woman? She goes, Honey,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy, and then the Medley starts and that
Speaker 1: was it. Oh my god. Then you know, so that
Speaker 1: was It's so funny because I feel like you're either
Speaker 1: like a Mrs Daffire person who had that movie, Are
Speaker 1: You're not? I, for some reason, didn't watch that movie
Speaker 1: until much later. Dave Mazzoni though, are you know he's
Speaker 1: Mrs Daffaire bitch? We my best friend Stephen and I
Speaker 1: were walking up and down Upper West Side a couple
Speaker 1: of days ago and quoted the entire Yeah, people can
Speaker 1: do that, but truly that that montage, that montage of
Speaker 1: her becoming and doing all the transformations and Barbara, that
Speaker 1: Barbara streisand moment and all of that, just that, and
Speaker 1: what I love about it is, like I said, I
Speaker 1: grew up in a very conservative home. That is drag
Speaker 1: that is a dragon queen and for some reason that
Speaker 1: snuck in the house was allowed on board with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was Robin Williams. Yeah I think so. And
Speaker 1: so it was that it was the Birdcage changed my
Speaker 1: life a Robin completely. And then freshman year of college,
Speaker 1: I had my first boyfriend and I told my parents
Speaker 1: that I cannot come home for fall break. I have
Speaker 1: so much studying to do. And my first boyfriend and
Speaker 1: I snuck to and we drove to Chicago from Nashville
Speaker 1: and stayed with my friend for the weekend. And she
Speaker 1: sat us down and showed us the movie Hedwig and
Speaker 1: the Angry Inch, and I had never seen anything like it,
Speaker 1: and it blew my mind. Those songs stuck with me.
Speaker 1: And recently, which I cannot believe, I had dinner and
Speaker 1: have become good friends with Stephen Trask and uh and
Speaker 1: just like it's just insane, that's all, yes, and so
Speaker 1: it was all. It was all like a lot a
Speaker 1: lot of drag moments that like that, uh define or
Speaker 1: like that started that inspiration of um, I guess where
Speaker 1: I'm at. The culture is just that, don't know. Stephen
Speaker 1: Trask was John Cara Mitchell's collaborator on music and also
Speaker 1: John caman Ritchell is like in it with he's he's
Speaker 1: like he's like he will he's coming back in this
Speaker 1: way that like sort of like he has his foot
Speaker 1: and like a comedy the contemporary comedic thing where it's
Speaker 1: like he'll come to like like he comes to like
Speaker 1: birthday parties and ship he's so funny, he's around and
Speaker 1: he's like the coolest person in the world. Um, that
Speaker 1: those are whatever I had. I didn't mean to name
Speaker 1: drop John Cameron Mitchell, but but but I didn't. Now, Um,
Speaker 1: and now I want to go to that birthday party
Speaker 1: and now you're crazy for you to talk about birthday
Speaker 1: Bay parties, birthday, birthdaythday parties, birthday exactly, she would succeed. Um,
Speaker 1: those are so great. There's such good examples. I have
Speaker 1: to admit. Yeah, I'm not to miss his doubtfire Gate,
Speaker 1: but like I understand it to be like I didn't
Speaker 1: watch until after my wind like the critical window had
Speaker 1: closed on. Yeah, I'll tell you what I think is
Speaker 1: iconic about it, Like yes, yes, yes, for me, Sally
Speaker 1: isn't my top five. My Sally to me is iconic.
Speaker 1: She's in my house. What's the moment, what's the moment
Speaker 1: the whole time, the whole time, the whole time. Genius.
Speaker 1: Imagine imagine imagine being the person that slowly that line
Speaker 1: reading that to that. Oh my god, she's unbelievable. And
Speaker 1: and you know, the thing about Sally is like, what
Speaker 1: I love about Sally is she never disappears. She's always
Speaker 1: Sally Field. But you are never mad. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like Meryl Streep too. I find that Meryl Streep doesn't disappear.
Speaker 1: She's kind of always Meryl and whatever. She's always Meryl.
Speaker 1: And I love that, Like, you don't need to totally
Speaker 1: disappear from me. Sure. What I also love about Mrs
Speaker 1: dolfire that is that it addressed divorce, yes, which I
Speaker 1: really haven't seen, you know. And and growing up in Mississippi,
Speaker 1: you you are told that divorce is not divorce is
Speaker 1: a sin. But then I'm like, no, Actually, if you
Speaker 1: don't like each other anymore, you should get a divorce.
Speaker 1: Still work out? Actually are often then they do nowadays.
Speaker 1: And also the only thing with that movie that I
Speaker 1: would criticize is that there's a possibility that they get
Speaker 1: back together at the end. I think it's fine that
Speaker 1: they're divorced, absolutely let them be divorced, because that is
Speaker 1: not the reality for lots of kids. So I can
Speaker 1: go back to a movie from Oh my God, I
Speaker 1: have notes there you go. I mean sure with the
Speaker 1: starting one of the best comedic actors, Manu and in
Speaker 1: two your formative movies, I mean, and Hook is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite. Yeah, I mean I would even say
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even shout out the bitch in Jumanjie. I
Speaker 1: wore out that VHS from Yeah, I did too. I
Speaker 1: remember all the previews that were on at Flyaway Home,
Speaker 1: miss Anna Paquin. I love the music in that movie
Speaker 1: was amazing, yes, miss Anna Paquin and also Flying all
Speaker 1: the Geese. Who was the father in that movie? I
Speaker 1: think it was Jeff Daniels who gave an iconic speech
Speaker 1: at the Golden Globes. Yes, yes, yes, Jeff Bridges Wait
Speaker 1: wait wait, we're gonna sorry, sorry, sorry, Jeff Daniels was
Speaker 1: in fly Away Home. Jeffries as Chris Pine looked on. Look,
Speaker 1: there's so many Jeff's, so many Chris is too many,
Speaker 1: too many Chris. But I love all Christmas m as
Speaker 1: someone who people often point to and go Chris right,
Speaker 1: And I don't know, but yeah, no, but yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the right answer. But yeah, I might as love you, Chris.
Speaker 1: I think my favorite Robert Williams is honestly, and this
Speaker 1: is so pathetic. It's not like he's not fun in it.
Speaker 1: Don't say like Insomnia, no, like what I love that movie.
Speaker 1: How when when' the last time you saw it? Like
Speaker 1: like fairly, not fairly recently, but like five years ago
Speaker 1: because my parents had never seen it, and it was like,
Speaker 1: this is something that like the whole family can enjoy.
Speaker 1: He's certainly a fantastic very He's not funny, but he's
Speaker 1: not but the whole thing of like like his wife
Speaker 1: farting in bed, like oh yeah, he's what a what
Speaker 1: a beautiful moment of just comedic, like he's there grief
Speaker 1: mixed with comedy, mixed with all this stuff. I was
Speaker 1: just like that is like I mean, I watched I
Speaker 1: watch Hooky around you. Absolutely I have to have a
Speaker 1: movie in the background, and it's typically that hook Okay. Interesting,
Speaker 1: you have to have a movie in the background, not
Speaker 1: when you're working, not when I'm working, just like running
Speaker 1: around the house. I have The Housewives on always, and
Speaker 1: I need to do that more. I just my background
Speaker 1: ship is like cooking videos on YouTube, which is dumb.
Speaker 1: It needs to be actual culture. It needs to be
Speaker 1: cooking is culture. I know cook Uh No, I can
Speaker 1: make a couple of things, but that's it. I have
Speaker 1: like a cookie recipe by memory, but it shows my
Speaker 1: priority memory. But I think that's your Yes, yes, yes, Leland.
Speaker 1: What would your book title be? Oh, life in the
Speaker 1: fast food Lane? Okay, let's get into fast food baby.
Speaker 1: I am fresh off Whole thirty. I the world is
Speaker 1: my oyster all the way I am. I wait, what
Speaker 1: you're already done? I was? I told studio. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna give it. I'm gonna stop it. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: I saw the cutest thing. I went to visit my
Speaker 1: friend Steven, who lives here at work, and he introduced
Speaker 1: me to some of his co workers. One of his
Speaker 1: co workers had flowers on her desk, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what's the occasion. Congratulations? She said, my
Speaker 1: girlfriend sent them to me because I'm halfway through Whole thirty.
Speaker 1: That is so sweet and so sweet, so goddamn hard.
Speaker 1: I was immediately furious that I don't have that type
Speaker 1: of relationship. Yeah, I just thought it was really for
Speaker 1: half not even just half beautiful. You need encouragement in
Speaker 1: these do you need encouragement also? Like but I will say, like,
Speaker 1: have you ever done like do you you don't like diet?
Speaker 1: I had. I did the Keto diet and it was
Speaker 1: actually very successful. If I still go into a mode
Speaker 1: and I stick to it and it does it worked well.
Speaker 1: I heard it was a good one that that works.
Speaker 1: You know. You get to the thing about the Whole
Speaker 1: thirty is I went over to our friend Suti, who
Speaker 1: was also doing a Whole thirty at the time, and
Speaker 1: she made like a whole thirty beef stew that was
Speaker 1: like totally compliant with whole famously love a beef stew. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean my favorite beef stew. Beef constipated for days.
Speaker 1: But it's work, but it's good. And also this stew
Speaker 1: was good. I needed a little salt, as things often do.
Speaker 1: But you know, as acially rule of culture, things often
Speaker 1: needs salt. It's a really culture number fourteen. Oh my god, bitch,
Speaker 1: I always say for it, it's real culture number ninety six.
Speaker 1: Things need salt. But this whole thirty compliant beef stew,
Speaker 1: it's missing a lot to the beef. It's missing beef.
Speaker 1: The beef is there, but also it's just it's beef.
Speaker 1: That's beef. Is there beef, it's beef. Mushrooms and potatoes. Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: but for me, so I got the mushrooms. This is
Speaker 1: what I need to have. Maybe it's to be a wine,
Speaker 1: a wine based, a red wine, red wine, Yama, reduced
Speaker 1: red wine, um, be stock whatever, and then with with
Speaker 1: a fond and well not fond with mine. I have
Speaker 1: mine with a fond with no no noes. Needs to
Speaker 1: have beef of course, potatoes, carrot, there they are. I
Speaker 1: was waiting. I was peas cheez. You gotta have fucking
Speaker 1: peas in your beef, stupid bitch. And some rose a
Speaker 1: couple of spigs of rosemary maybe if you're feeling fine.
Speaker 1: Oh of course Celery. Oh my god, I live and
Speaker 1: die for Celery. Oh my god, you burned calories eating fibers.
Speaker 1: I know. That's what I know a few things fiber
Speaker 1: for those of us out here trying and trying and
Speaker 1: trying to have gay an there I mean I bloom
Speaker 1: maybe maybe not how much Celery? Have I A wow
Speaker 1: sequel that's actually a real cut number sixty four. I
Speaker 1: maybe maybe not have much salary. Have I eaten favorite? Okay,
Speaker 1: go to fast food place Leland, Taco Bell, Taco Bell, Yes,
Speaker 1: we have to start with this Taco Bell rasuer, Oh
Speaker 1: my Bell. So when Tyler and I first became friends,
Speaker 1: he was driving this like Ford focus. I also had
Speaker 1: a Ford focus that one chapter in my life and
Speaker 1: this is not this is not the place where you
Speaker 1: come to like I love this focuses. Yeah, he always
Speaker 1: sponsored American idols. Oh you're right. He had a jetta.
Speaker 1: He had a Jetta for him and I got in
Speaker 1: his car. He opened up the glove compartment or the
Speaker 1: middle of the middle secon and there were about four
Speaker 1: hundred Taco Bell gift cards. Shut up and I got
Speaker 1: I got chills from Taco Bell corporate. What And it
Speaker 1: was like yes, yeah, And he was like should we
Speaker 1: go to Taco Bell? Well, you don't bloom after talk
Speaker 1: mean at your own risk, right right right? And so
Speaker 1: there was a chapter in my life where we would
Speaker 1: just go get taco about, Oh my god, and it
Speaker 1: was so nice and never paid a time. I used
Speaker 1: to Holy shit, I used to go to talk about
Speaker 1: and my order was because you know that taco bells
Speaker 1: off joined with pizza hut, so I would get I
Speaker 1: would get to chicken case citias and a little personal pizza,
Speaker 1: and I would be able to just house that. Now
Speaker 1: at this day and age of my late twenties, honey,
Speaker 1: now never never, I can probably handle one chicken case
Speaker 1: citia or I can eat too, but I I can
Speaker 1: take a leave the pizza sauce in the chicken. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also like when they're a little but they can't
Speaker 1: not sometimes with these taco bells, they don't cook it
Speaker 1: all the way something. It's not trigger. It's just like
Speaker 1: when I when I go to get a c I
Speaker 1: want and is my ship charred wange it needs to
Speaker 1: be charged. I like it like I like my marshmallows
Speaker 1: charge charred. I like it like I like my swiss
Speaker 1: um that is I like it how I like my Pokemon.
Speaker 1: I can I tell you something, you can just what
Speaker 1: I always get doesn't matter what, It doesn't matter what
Speaker 1: else is in the order. Must get two plane bean
Speaker 1: burritos every time I go, Yes, you hate this. I
Speaker 1: just don't like a bean burrito because I know what's
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna do to your fucking system. But what
Speaker 1: you don't know about is when he's had, when he's
Speaker 1: been eating things that are going to disagree with his stomach.
Speaker 1: The noises that come from Bow and Yang are similar
Speaker 1: to that of an angry Egyptian king. Now, I that
Speaker 1: comes out of hanging out with him at your own risk.
Speaker 1: Now after he's eaten, and just forward and some fire
Speaker 1: and some fire packets, fire sauce. I'm a mild, you're
Speaker 1: a mild mild. I like the taste. I love the
Speaker 1: taste of them. You know you don't want the pekans. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. I like spicy. I'm a spicy queen. Chaotic.
Speaker 1: I'm chaotic, good spicy, Okay, that's how I redentify, but
Speaker 1: not super spicy. Come on, come on, but I don't
Speaker 1: want to sweat. When I go to Chipotle, I always
Speaker 1: ask for mild and hot, and sometimes I get an
Speaker 1: awkward eye. No, it's fine, whatever I asked for mild
Speaker 1: and medium. Mild medium queen. Okay, we have to talk
Speaker 1: about the other two in your involvement with it. Um, Like,
Speaker 1: like the whole the show is predicated on, like this
Speaker 1: kid becoming this huge pop star and having these songs
Speaker 1: and like you ended up writing these like very good songs,
Speaker 1: Like what was that? What was that process like where
Speaker 1: you would just with it in the room with Chris
Speaker 1: and Sarah coming up with what these songs were supposed
Speaker 1: to be. They would send me lyrics. They sent me
Speaker 1: lyrics they worked on very almost completely flushed out, um
Speaker 1: and uh because as you said, like they come from
Speaker 1: an incredible background of writing songs and um and so
Speaker 1: then I would take the lyrics and make them hooky
Speaker 1: and put music underneath them, and then send them a
Speaker 1: couple of options of like here's how you here's like
Speaker 1: a verse option. It all like comes down to the chorus.
Speaker 1: So I would send you know too, three four or
Speaker 1: five versions of different choruses using the lyrics that they
Speaker 1: had sent over um and uh. And then we just
Speaker 1: went back and forth and they were so amazing to
Speaker 1: work with, and I would write the songs and then
Speaker 1: I brought them to my friend Gabe Lopez to produce
Speaker 1: who produces a lot for Brandy Carlyle. Oh my god, sorry, sorry,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Belenda car Live, um and uh and yeah.
Speaker 1: So we would just try different things and it was
Speaker 1: so much fun and I wanted to there were a
Speaker 1: lot of complexities to it because Chase's career in the
Speaker 1: show had to evolve. Yes, so the songs had to
Speaker 1: get better. And that's very relative and strange. It's like,
Speaker 1: so have I write a better song now so that
Speaker 1: fits um? But then you know, it's like I want
Speaker 1: to have a one Republic Americana moment for my Brother's
Speaker 1: Gay for that song, and then uh, and then later
Speaker 1: in this series the series, Uh, he has a like
Speaker 1: a big performance that we had to strip back one
Speaker 1: of the songs um and do like reinvent it. You
Speaker 1: know when people going on the Words show and they
Speaker 1: reinvent the song with like if it's like an up
Speaker 1: tempo song, but they do it with an orchestra, you know.
Speaker 1: So we had to have one of those moments, right, oh,
Speaker 1: yes at the and then we did a bunch of
Speaker 1: remixes for My Brother's Gay, So we did the Gay
Speaker 1: Club remix, all these remixes that was we did, Like
Speaker 1: that was my favorite episodes. But my Brother's Gay episode,
Speaker 1: as I think and hinges on the song, Yes, the
Speaker 1: song is doing all the work, is moving the plot forward.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. You like you were you you were writing
Speaker 1: songs that were like breaking the story that we're just
Speaker 1: like moving it along in this way that was like
Speaker 1: so so fun, I can't believe it. Seriously they I mean,
Speaker 1: we've talked, we talked about Molly, Shannon and Chris and
Speaker 1: Sarah and all these people. But too, I had gone
Speaker 1: to m Saturday Night Live last when last January Troy performed,
Speaker 1: which was an iconic performance, so special and uh, and
Speaker 1: I truly was the person that was like, this is
Speaker 1: my like Mecca, this is the holy grail of comedy.
Speaker 1: This is I recognizing and and a bucket list as
Speaker 1: a songwriter. You you're like, I can't speak for everyone,
Speaker 1: but my dreams were like hopefully one day to have
Speaker 1: a song performed on the Grammys, but Saturday Night Live
Speaker 1: is is the place. And so to not have only one,
Speaker 1: but like to have co written both songs that he
Speaker 1: was performing was such a special moment. Alex and I
Speaker 1: sat in the audience on the balcony area and just
Speaker 1: cried and it was so special and um and so
Speaker 1: I remember being there and telling Troy and telling our
Speaker 1: friends we were with. I don't know how, I don't
Speaker 1: know like on what, but I need to work with
Speaker 1: these people somehow, And it was three weeks later that
Speaker 1: I was like, sitting in an office with Chris and
Speaker 1: Sarah was so crazy. So yeah, I I love and
Speaker 1: I feel like my like, I feel like everything led
Speaker 1: up to having the capability to work on this show
Speaker 1: because it's that type of writing is very specific. So
Speaker 1: working on drag Race for now four years and then
Speaker 1: writing pop songs, this felt like the culmination of both
Speaker 1: of those things. Well, it's just a perfect intersection of
Speaker 1: like your passions and your interests completely so special. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about drag Race because you've got to be
Speaker 1: on cam and the Helper. So can you give us
Speaker 1: a little bit? Who are you? Who are you working
Speaker 1: with that drag Race, Like do you have interactions with
Speaker 1: rou Yes, I mean I I uh rue is just amazing.
Speaker 1: I feel so lucky to be in that family and
Speaker 1: to be around um uh LGBTQ people that come from
Speaker 1: a generation where I mean they are just comedic geniuses
Speaker 1: and so anytime I can be around them and absorb
Speaker 1: that energy and those stories and that comedy and I
Speaker 1: love it. Um yeah, and I mean drags is. Working
Speaker 1: on drag Ras is truly I work with um My
Speaker 1: co composer Freddie Scott, who is amazing, and it is
Speaker 1: one of the hardest things I work on, because you'll
Speaker 1: work on an extravaganza, yes, which usually consists of twelve
Speaker 1: mini songs of varying genres that have to be equally
Speaker 1: competitive for each queen, that have to have an opportunity
Speaker 1: for each each queen to have a moment if they
Speaker 1: take advantage of it or if they do it the
Speaker 1: right way. Um, and have to have different voices. So
Speaker 1: ali X has been has done some voices for me.
Speaker 1: I do a lot of the voices. On Kardashian the Musical,
Speaker 1: I was Courtney Kardashian and in the final cut and
Speaker 1: the final at it oh yeah, oh yeah, god um
Speaker 1: and uh and yeah. And then on Bad Girls of
Speaker 1: Her Story, ali X was the voice of Princess Diana.
Speaker 1: I don't know that Alix did all these. I'm very shy.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I cannot believe. You know. The world
Speaker 1: fell in love with my eyes. Pink, pink pink. My
Speaker 1: favorite favorite, favorite thing too, was was Alyssa Edwards as
Speaker 1: Bang Yeah, we were so great. She killed it Detox
Speaker 1: in TX as Marie Antoinette and that was my friend
Speaker 1: m Fitzpatrick who lives here, who I went to college with,
Speaker 1: So I just call all my friends to do all
Speaker 1: the voices, like insane, you get any part of the gag,
Speaker 1: do you feel like you enjoy it more or less
Speaker 1: watching it because you're involved? Is that like something you
Speaker 1: lose being involved? No? No, no no, no. Being on
Speaker 1: set and watching it go down, watching them perform, it's
Speaker 1: a rush that you can't describe it is. So it's, well,
Speaker 1: it's freezing first of all on sets you're like shaking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean you don't want the queens to sweat or
Speaker 1: anyone to sweat. There in so much fabric, so much makeup,
Speaker 1: wigs and everything, so it's freeze ing. But um, but
Speaker 1: also yeah, it's it is so special and it feels
Speaker 1: like it's just getting going and it's ten seasons end,
Speaker 1: which is insane. Yeah that's unheard of. Ye, that's unheard of.
Speaker 1: It's only growing and growing and growing, And I mean
Speaker 1: the conversations around it are so so important. So we're
Speaker 1: like when we're recording this, we're like in the middle
Speaker 1: of All Stars four right now? Do you end up
Speaker 1: knowing results? And I don't want to, you know, I
Speaker 1: am a massive fan of Drag Race. I was a
Speaker 1: fan before I worked on the show, but they're people
Speaker 1: in my friend group are bigger fans, and it it
Speaker 1: is so intense, um and so I don't typically talk
Speaker 1: about it. One because I've signed a million n D
Speaker 1: A and uh too, because I forget, Like, we we
Speaker 1: filmed my episode that I was on this this season.
Speaker 1: We filmed it last January, you know, so you forget
Speaker 1: the interactions that happened. I forgot that I had some
Speaker 1: fun moments with Chia and and uh fun moments with Farah,
Speaker 1: and so you forget all those things and then you
Speaker 1: watch it back and my friends, you know, will be like, so,
Speaker 1: what's going on? I'm like, I one for I'm not
Speaker 1: telling you, and to I forget, like I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so this the question I'm gonna ask is so insane.
Speaker 1: How big is that main stage? Are? Like, is a huge?
Speaker 1: It's a big? Yeah, it looks huge. It's not one
Speaker 1: of those spaces where you go in and you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's so much smaller. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: that thing. Like when I went to the Prices, right,
Speaker 1: I was like, this is tiny. That's crazy. Um, but no,
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's big, you know what's really small?
Speaker 1: Watch What Happens Live? Yes, it is intimate, intimate, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but no, it's a it's a great space. And like
Speaker 1: I get chills, like when I see the Snatch Game
Speaker 1: set coming out or anything like that. It's so cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's your favorite one that you've worked on, like, like
Speaker 1: a favorite song like extravag As we Are? Um, I
Speaker 1: mean there, I loved writing um a classic? Is there
Speaker 1: an anal option from? Oh my God, my my friend
Speaker 1: Mia was the voice of that who we Are? I
Speaker 1: also went to college with And is there an anal option?
Speaker 1: Mayhem Miller? Right, that was Mayhem? That was Mayhem. Um,
Speaker 1: But I mean I do think I loved working on
Speaker 1: Bad Girls of History. Yeah, that was really that. All
Speaker 1: Stars to cast is iconic. I think All Stars four
Speaker 1: comes close though. Really, I think it's been fucking amazing.
Speaker 1: So we're recording this right after him the Lala Peruse
Speaker 1: episode and that, like, because I was telling you mant,
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't like it's a good season.
Speaker 1: I don't know about this roster. They're like, are are
Speaker 1: we liking like this group we've always had hesitation since
Speaker 1: the Annasis cast, I've been so then, like the Lalla
Speaker 1: Peruse episode just like crystallized everything. I was like, they
Speaker 1: picked all the right girls, and like it's this is
Speaker 1: such good television. It's so like it all comes together
Speaker 1: in this one episode and now like there's more of
Speaker 1: the season to be had, but like so fun, such
Speaker 1: a good watching it, and like seeing the runways this
Speaker 1: all this year and thinking about All Stars in general.
Speaker 1: Do you know who I think is going to eventually
Speaker 1: fucking kill an All Star season? Asia Asia. I think
Speaker 1: Asia O'Hara is going to win All Stars. I think
Speaker 1: what will be really tough is if Asia O'Hara and
Speaker 1: Shape Cool are in the same season. It's gonna be hard,
Speaker 1: and I think they'll both do All Stars five. But
Speaker 1: Asia has a redemption arc that she is going in with.
Speaker 1: And Asia comes to the runway with gags already not
Speaker 1: on an All Stars season, So what is Asia? What
Speaker 1: is an elevated runway Asia gonna be? Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: fucking crazy thing to have a lot of respect for
Speaker 1: the queens that come with no budget, you know, I yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a hard Yeah. Asia came in made her Daniel
Speaker 1: line look with an Ikea, but she made it work.
Speaker 1: And also like, that's the reason I say Asia and
Speaker 1: Shay is because I feel like those are the two
Speaker 1: because I don't think Kim she's ever doing it. I
Speaker 1: just don't get the sense that she's ever going to
Speaker 1: do All Stars. But I think Shay and Asia are
Speaker 1: both waiting for their moment. I think it's going to
Speaker 1: come at the same time, and that will be a
Speaker 1: gag because she is also so fucking she has also
Speaker 1: fun fact shape or Kim, she and Tyler went to
Speaker 1: high school together. I'm like, no way, you know, Jill,
Speaker 1: Kim Booster and Shakol went to high school together and
Speaker 1: they were in the same production of No No It
Speaker 1: was and and um Shay was Audrey too and Joel
Speaker 1: was um Seymour Seymour. Yeah, amazing. Can they please? Yes?
Speaker 1: I mean they're both fame people would people would pay
Speaker 1: money to see that. I was too. Gorgeous people doing
Speaker 1: gorgeous work, gorgeous work. Um is it time? I think
Speaker 1: it's time? Okay, I think be time. So we're doing
Speaker 1: I don't think Sony, did you come prepared? Bit she
Speaker 1: did come prepared as prepared as I can. I'm very nervous.
Speaker 1: I also might lose some friendships over this. You know
Speaker 1: it's gonna be good. Um, this is our one minute.
Speaker 1: This is our one minute segment where we each go
Speaker 1: off for one minute. As I've said about pop culture,
Speaker 1: something that's getting our go doesn't have to be pop
Speaker 1: culture related, something in the culture. Matt, do you have something?
Speaker 1: I need a second. Okay, you need a second, I
Speaker 1: think because I've designed two things that I want to
Speaker 1: hear yours. So I go to I land on a
Speaker 1: different flavor. Okay, well I'll wait. Mine was going to
Speaker 1: be topical, and we have to remember not to be topical. Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: here we go, here we go. All right, this is
Speaker 1: I don't think so honey, And as time starts now,
Speaker 1: I don't think so honey. Poppers. Really, I've been using
Speaker 1: poppers and it's it's been rush. It's been rush, and
Speaker 1: I do the poppers and I'm trying to This is
Speaker 1: for my own private use. It's not with I haven't
Speaker 1: been so lucky to be with another person, um in
Speaker 1: a sexual setting. So it's for my own popper's use.
Speaker 1: So that so I stick other things things up my butt.
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's it's giving me too much of
Speaker 1: a little head rush. I'm like, wait a minute, I
Speaker 1: can't concentrate, and it's not the intended thing. I don't
Speaker 1: feel they so dilation. I don't I can't tell if
Speaker 1: it's making things easier for me down there, and like,
Speaker 1: bitch you got I can't believe I had to walk
Speaker 1: to Chelsea into some insane sex shop and spend forty
Speaker 1: to buy two little bottles poppers. The fact that there
Speaker 1: are top and bottom poppers is insane to me. There
Speaker 1: should just be one for bottoms. Tops. They don't need anything,
Speaker 1: they're they're set. They should just take a masculinity pillums.
Speaker 1: So I don't think so many poppers. We need to
Speaker 1: rethink the way that we present these and how we
Speaker 1: advertise what the effects. And that's why I'm minute, you know,
Speaker 1: I think you might just be taken too much of
Speaker 1: a No, I'm just going and also if you need
Speaker 1: someone to take those off your hands and stuff. And
Speaker 1: I'm a fan, but my group of friends who started
Speaker 1: doing it recreation the ways he'll bring it to the club,
Speaker 1: Joel's stunt when he's around straight people, as he'd be like, hey,
Speaker 1: you should try poppers just for absolutely, Yeah, we did it.
Speaker 1: We did it on stage before. I don't think so, honey,
Speaker 1: l A. Last night at the after party, we all
Speaker 1: cheers with our fried chicken sandwiches and special. That was
Speaker 1: a good fried chicken sandwich so good. Also, so when
Speaker 1: I uh did the Troy tour and we stopped in
Speaker 1: Atlanta and my whole group of friends Joe John down
Speaker 1: from Nashville, and then I went and sat with them
Speaker 1: and danced while Troy Troy was on stage. And this
Speaker 1: was new to me to see my entire group of friends, girls, guys,
Speaker 1: gay straights all doing poppers. I was like, what, it's
Speaker 1: a revolutionous going on. Yeah, the first revolution. Yeah, past
Speaker 1: the poppers hun one time but one and I walked
Speaker 1: into a room and a friend said, pop the poppers
Speaker 1: the gazer here and I was like, I love that.
Speaker 1: As our intro, who said Joanna Bradley remember queer, I
Speaker 1: mean she's queer herself and she so she was allowed
Speaker 1: to say that. I decided what I'm gonna do and
Speaker 1: it's on theme. Okay, it's on theme. Great, this is
Speaker 1: Matt Rogers. I don't think so many a time starts now,
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey, that bottoming hurts. Can I
Speaker 1: say something? All I want to do is take a
Speaker 1: fucking cock seriously, like that I watched is like exclusively,
Speaker 1: like obviously it's clear to me that I want to
Speaker 1: get fucked. And then literally like I'll try, I'll be
Speaker 1: on my loans. I'm like, and I'm thinking in my
Speaker 1: private times, should I And I can't even stomach the
Speaker 1: fact of trying to do that with myself. I need
Speaker 1: to be able to take dicks because, let me tell
Speaker 1: you something, I feel that there's a side of my
Speaker 1: sexuality that is like just not being explored, and I
Speaker 1: don't think so, honey. I listened to Bloom and I'm
Speaker 1: like so proud to be part of this community. And
Speaker 1: then I can't even fucking hack it. And I wanted
Speaker 1: able to hack it so bad. I wanted be able
Speaker 1: to hack it so bad, honey. And honestly, here's the thing.
Speaker 1: No one has mentioned a trainer jildo and I am.
Speaker 1: I would like to get out there and try to
Speaker 1: try to get it, But the fact of the matter
Speaker 1: is is it going to be a wasteful purchase? Am
Speaker 1: I going to like actually enjoy this? I really hope
Speaker 1: so I don't think so money that it hurts. I
Speaker 1: just want to have fucking said and that's one minute. Okay,
Speaker 1: Trainer Delga will not hurt. It is like it is
Speaker 1: just so what you do is I want to be
Speaker 1: able to use my asshole for sex. Okay, here's here's
Speaker 1: here's start with this is And for anyone if this
Speaker 1: is tr graphic, we're so sorry. But also I came.
Speaker 1: I came to this episode for this, so yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and we're also not apologizing for us. This is boom,
Speaker 1: but this is, this is, this is, this is the
Speaker 1: anal option. So you gotta get a great lube, gotta
Speaker 1: get your fingers in there in the loube. Start with
Speaker 1: one to three. After three, after you're after you're in
Speaker 1: with three, you go in with the trainer, take ahead
Speaker 1: of poppers, play your porn, whatever you want to do,
Speaker 1: and then you if you feel up for it, you can.
Speaker 1: You can work with the trainer for like a week
Speaker 1: or so, and then you move up to something right
Speaker 1: here and and then then and then and then and
Speaker 1: then you'll be ready. I would love to be able
Speaker 1: to fucking not be so skinnish about that. I I
Speaker 1: was very much in the same place as you are.
Speaker 1: And it's and it's this is just one of the
Speaker 1: things that we have to live with. It sucks, but
Speaker 1: it's but it's worth it once you get there. Sure,
Speaker 1: there you go being a stern verse stern what I
Speaker 1: really wanted us to be able to, like, be able
Speaker 1: to confidently say I'm verse. Okay, that's I have in
Speaker 1: the past been with someone that used a training builder
Speaker 1: and it changed everything. All right, that's fine, Then I
Speaker 1: know what I have to do. Then I know what
Speaker 1: I must do. It sounded like you were singing one, two,
Speaker 1: three like the fingers I was dying three. I okay,
Speaker 1: and then can I ask you something? Sure? It changed
Speaker 1: everything for the better, because for me, it's like my
Speaker 1: my thing now is that like and I taking away
Speaker 1: something that is that gives me value as a sexual
Speaker 1: being where I I take pride in my I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say, and my tightness and people comment on that,
Speaker 1: and then now now I'm worried that I'm like taking
Speaker 1: that away by like just getting worry about that. Great, Okay.
Speaker 1: I just feel like the kind of way I feel
Speaker 1: sexually lately is like I want to be like grabbed.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like the aggressor, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I don't feel like that right now,
Speaker 1: like in you want to be tossed around. Honestly, Like
Speaker 1: two years ago, I was like feeling very toppy, and
Speaker 1: now I'm like, you know, are no, And even with
Speaker 1: my stash, I feel like I'm posturing as a top
Speaker 1: And meanwhile I'm like, I have this podcast, what do
Speaker 1: you mean? I feel like we're very bothered me our
Speaker 1: vocals whatever, that's um, there's no. When I was on
Speaker 1: Food for Thought, they were like shocked that I identified
Speaker 1: as a t o p oh whatever thought you were
Speaker 1: a screaming musical fat fruit for thought. Boys, That is
Speaker 1: the type thought boys. That is not. That is politically
Speaker 1: uncouth of you to say, you guys, fran Dennis, I
Speaker 1: refuse your offer to replace Joe. Um, okay, this is it.
Speaker 1: This is I have been stressing from things that we
Speaker 1: could never ever, ever fucking do. Just you will. You
Speaker 1: will nail this. I promise. This is Leland's I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey, And as time starts now, I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey. Jazzy renditions of pop hits TikTok was
Speaker 1: not meant to be performed with a big band by
Speaker 1: a girl who's dressed like she's trying to seduce the
Speaker 1: dad from Mary popline of my favorite songs of all
Speaker 1: time is Toxic, And one time I accidentally clicked on
Speaker 1: a jazzy version on YouTube and it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: the taste of your lips im toxic, and I was like,
Speaker 1: absolutely not. I will tell you what's toxic. This version.
Speaker 1: Kathy Dennis, who famously wrote Toxic, is a songwriting icon.
Speaker 1: She's not dead, but if she were, she would roll
Speaker 1: over in her gray. The second of all, it's not jazz.
Speaker 1: Slowing down a song to have the speed and singing
Speaker 1: as high and as low as you can does not
Speaker 1: make it jazz. Singing and singing while dressed like you're
Speaker 1: in Chicago the musical is not jazz. And yeah, so
Speaker 1: also I want to say that if someone did a
Speaker 1: song that I wrote in a jazzy version, I would
Speaker 1: I would change my mind and love it. Also, Mario,
Speaker 1: I love you. I know, I know you've done some
Speaker 1: of these and I adore you and will always go
Speaker 1: to a show that you have that does this to
Speaker 1: cover your basis at the end, to be like, by
Speaker 1: the way, if someone were to cover one of my
Speaker 1: last seconds were a complete the last second, the last
Speaker 1: five seconds were just an insurance policy exactly, which also
Speaker 1: I do genuinely, genuinely loath for me. It depends there's
Speaker 1: that there's that one YouTube like channel that does a
Speaker 1: bunch of them. It's like postmodern jukebox. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say yeah, I was. I was
Speaker 1: so insecure about like doing this before. I was texting
Speaker 1: with Dave and he asked me if I had mine
Speaker 1: prepared and I and I sent, I said yes, and
Speaker 1: he said he agreed. I don't want to blast him,
Speaker 1: but he agreed, and he was like, yes, it's like
Speaker 1: removing all of my favorite songs about things about about
Speaker 1: the song that top music now is like pretty much
Speaker 1: written to be like it is. I mean, but I
Speaker 1: do love when I hear a rendition of a song.
Speaker 1: It can never be jazzy, but I love a ballad
Speaker 1: version of a song. Of course I love it on
Speaker 1: a piano absolutely, Yes, I agree a ballad version I accept.
Speaker 1: I accept a sort of an unplugged situation where it's
Speaker 1: just guitar, like you know, but at what point that
Speaker 1: it becomes a slippery slip and the bottom of that
Speaker 1: hope is dr poppers. Is jazz okay? So slow down jazz? Honestly,
Speaker 1: would I could understand jazz? I yeah, I do love
Speaker 1: a big band. I love a big band night out,
Speaker 1: but I don't but I don't want to hear toxic
Speaker 1: with a big band exactly. I want to hear like
Speaker 1: a big band classic that I've never heard of before.
Speaker 1: You know, I totally agree, and I would say that's culture.
Speaker 1: That's culture. This episode was culture. This episode I truly feel.
Speaker 1: I feel very lucky that we got to talk to
Speaker 1: you because we don't have a lot of like, um,
Speaker 1: we we should. We need to get more like songwriters.
Speaker 1: We need to get because that's culture. We have a
Speaker 1: lot of comedians on this show, and people think the
Speaker 1: show is funny. It's not funny, but this is not
Speaker 1: a comedy show. This is not comedy. This is We're serious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we made we actually made a rule of culture before
Speaker 1: with christ and Sarah we said it's real culture number something.
Speaker 1: I am not funny, Yes, so we are. So we're
Speaker 1: just so lucky to have you with us. You're the best.
Speaker 1: Thank you, And what a quick friendship that's been struck
Speaker 1: up to in like seventy two hours. No, truly, I'm
Speaker 1: like I've seen him each day. I saw the weekend,
Speaker 1: some Thursday, some Saturday song. You got him on Thursday,
Speaker 1: and I got him on Friday. I got a little
Speaker 1: photo booth moment. We did a handoff. We did a handoff.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, that photo booth picture was kind of iconic.
Speaker 1: That's going to be like a picture that. It was us, Darcy, Sarah, Sudy,
Speaker 1: so many fun people, and your friend Steve Stephen, who
Speaker 1: I love. He's wonderful. So it was like an art
Speaker 1: It was like a gift thing where we're just all moving.
Speaker 1: But Steven decides to do a R T P O
Speaker 1: P the R pop and signs from Gaga. So I
Speaker 1: instantly was like, okay, you're you're Cannon, you get it.
Speaker 1: So canonically here with us, canonically here, Okay, we close
Speaker 1: out every episode with a song. Yes we love, and
Speaker 1: we're going to close it out with a song. And
Speaker 1: we know which one it is, do we it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's going to be one of two. And I'm feeling
Speaker 1: I love both, but I'm feeling one over the other
Speaker 1: right now in this moment here we go Here, We
Speaker 1: Go My Mom Night. Listen to bloom By try By.
Speaker 1: This has been a Forever Dog production executive produced by
Speaker 1: Brett Bahum, Joe Silio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts,
Speaker 1: please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to
Speaker 1: our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news
Speaker 1: by following us on Twitter and Instagram at forever Dog Team,
Speaker 1: and liking our page on Facebook.