1
00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:02,160
Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

2
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,960
Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them all

3
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,719
Speaker 2: their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism?

4
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,040
Speaker 2: It's the patriarchy, Zeph and bast start changing it with

5
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 2: the Bechdel Cast.

6
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:23,799
Speaker 1: Hey Jamie Darlin, Hey Caitlin Darlin, will you paint my

7
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:25,119
Speaker 1: nails for me?

8
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,280
Speaker 3: I don't know. Do you like looking like cheap trash?

9
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,520
Speaker 3: Because if so, I guess I'll do it. Me and

10
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,600
Speaker 3: my awesome boobs that everyone loves.

11
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:35,159
Speaker 1: Well, my boobs are awesome too.

12
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,879
Speaker 3: Mavie, take me body dysmorphia again again? Oh my gosh,

13
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,960
Speaker 3: it's not fair. How do boobs look like that? Anyways?

14
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 3: I think my brain. I think my takeaway from watching

15
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 3: show Girls is wow, I think my boobs are weird?

16
00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,960
Speaker 1: Oh, Jamie or boobs? That's not true?

17
00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,880
Speaker 3: Is that the lesson of the movie.

18
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 1: Yes, it's it's a brilliant to attire about. Boom.

19
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 3: Welcome to the back Deellcast. Look we've got we've got

20
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,199
Speaker 3: Gina gersha on and yes, she's kissing ladies again. It's

21
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 3: a time honored Gina gershon observation on this show, but

22
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:19,559
Speaker 3: this time in a very different movie.

23
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,840
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, because today is our Showgirls episode often requested. Hello,

24
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm Showgirls number one. Caitlin Toronte, I'm show Girls

25
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:30,120
Speaker 1: number two.

26
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I work at the Cheetah. My name's Jamie Loftus.

27
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes, this is a highly

28
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: requested episode. We've been getting requests for this since the

29
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 1: show began.

30
00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, for some reason, we did Starship Troopers and Basic

31
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 3: Instinct before this. This is our third. This is kind

32
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,040
Speaker 3: of wild because I don't think that we often. I'm

33
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,680
Speaker 3: trying to think of a director that has appeared on

34
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 3: the show three different times. I feel like for Hoven,

35
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 3: for some reason, he pops up on this show quite

36
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 3: a bit.

37
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, there have been a few, but Paul is really

38
00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:10,400
Speaker 1: showing up.

39
00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,920
Speaker 3: You will about Paul. He really generates a discussion he does,

40
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,960
Speaker 3: and I love that about Paul.

41
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,480
Speaker 1: All right, all that didn't pass the Bechdel tests, But no,

42
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,280
Speaker 1: what even is that, Jamie?

43
00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 3: Well. The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by

44
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,960
Speaker 3: queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test.

45
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,400
Speaker 3: Many versions of this test. It was originally created as

46
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,480
Speaker 3: a bit for a comic strip that Alison Bechdel wrote,

47
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 3: but now it's sort of used as a metric for

48
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,600
Speaker 3: us specifically to use. Here's the one we use. Our

49
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,839
Speaker 3: version of the Bechdel test requires that there be two characters.

50
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:56,520
Speaker 3: Uh of, oh my god, all right, there would be

51
00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,160
Speaker 3: two characters. Yeah, two characters of a marginalized gender with

52
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 3: names that speak to each other about something other than

53
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,120
Speaker 3: a man, for two lines of dialogue or more. Not

54
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 3: a perfect metric, which you know because it Showgirls passes

55
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:12,440
Speaker 3: it almost.

56
00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,040
Speaker 1: Immediately, And so many of the conversations that pass during

57
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 1: this movie are about fingernails. It's like, yes, it's almost

58
00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:21,200
Speaker 1: as well chips.

59
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:22,520
Speaker 3: I love the chips.

60
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 1: Oh sure, dog food, doggy chow dog food.

61
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,359
Speaker 3: Okay, that was relatable for me. I used to eat

62
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:29,560
Speaker 3: dog food on stage all the time.

63
00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:34,200
Speaker 1: That's right. Wow, you really are a showgirl.

64
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 3: I am the showiest girl. I really loved the chip car.

65
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 3: I mean, there's so many iconic exchanges in this movie.

66
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,760
Speaker 3: But yeah, the like giggling and being like did you

67
00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 3: eat the chips? I was like, Wow, I should do

68
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:48,200
Speaker 3: that more.

69
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you want to come over and replicate that

70
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 1: exact conversation with me? Yeah?

71
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 3: Wake you up and be like where's the chips?

72
00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 1: Anyway? So we use the Bechdel test as a jumping

73
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,880
Speaker 1: off point for a large conversation because we hear on

74
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:07,120
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens,

75
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,120
Speaker 1: and today is no different, and the movie is Showgirls.

76
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,679
Speaker 1: And the guest, oh have today a legend? You've seen

77
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,600
Speaker 1: them on Rue Paul's Drag Race UK season one. They

78
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 1: host the podcast The Things That Made Me Queer? It's

79
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,719
Speaker 1: Crystal Hello, Hi.

80
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,840
Speaker 4: Oh my god. I really enjoyed that intro. So many

81
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 4: things to say. Already we're already all completely flam mixed

82
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 4: about how we're going to manage talking about this movie.

83
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:37,560
Speaker 4: I can tell.

84
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,279
Speaker 3: It's so hard. It's interesting. I feel like there's certain

85
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 3: movies where depending on like you just have to like

86
00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,560
Speaker 3: take the temp on how everyone else feels about it

87
00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 3: before you can speak your mind.

88
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,320
Speaker 4: Well, people feel a lot of ways about this movie,

89
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 4: so they really do many opinions to choose from.

90
00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 3: Well, let's not to put you on the spot, but

91
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:06,480
Speaker 3: let's start with yours. What's your perfect great, what's your

92
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,200
Speaker 3: history with show Girls?

93
00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,479
Speaker 4: Okay, I have to be honest and say I think

94
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,840
Speaker 4: this is this has at one point in my life

95
00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,680
Speaker 4: been my favorite movie. So it is it has occupied

96
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,960
Speaker 4: that place for me, and it's probably the movie I've

97
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,800
Speaker 4: spent I've watched the most times in my life. Yeah,

98
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 4: which is a lot to say.

99
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,360
Speaker 1: So this is your Titanic for us, basically, uh.

100
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,640
Speaker 4: Huh, Yeah, Titanic, which I've seen one time.

101
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,520
Speaker 1: What Yeah, blasphemy shocking.

102
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you guys always reference Titanic. I'm like, who

103
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,480
Speaker 4: are they talking about. I don't even know who these

104
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:43,600
Speaker 4: characters are, Crystal, I know, Well, now I've prepared to

105
00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,440
Speaker 4: hear me reference chips and nails a lot because I

106
00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,120
Speaker 4: could probably quote this entire movie from start to finish,

107
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,039
Speaker 4: which I don't think is like healthy for me, but

108
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 4: it is where we're at. I saw this movie probably

109
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,160
Speaker 4: when I was like twelve or thirteen with like when

110
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 4: I was still in the claw and had like a

111
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 4: straight best friend, and he would he probably was like

112
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,680
Speaker 4: showing me it on his parents' TV after midnight, like

113
00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,040
Speaker 4: it was that kind of vibe. I don't really remember

114
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,800
Speaker 4: it from that period, but I know I knew I

115
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,200
Speaker 4: saw it in that kind of era. And then I

116
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,800
Speaker 4: watched it again in my early twenties with my then

117
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 4: boyfriend who was like, you need to watch show Girls.

118
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,840
Speaker 4: It's a camp masterpiece. And from then it's basically been

119
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 4: in my life in multiple different ways up until the

120
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,000
Speaker 4: point where I'm now a drag artist called Crystal who

121
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,400
Speaker 4: dresses like a slot on stage. So it's really taken

122
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:36,160
Speaker 4: me places.

123
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 3: So is you a show girl?

124
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,159
Speaker 1: Is your stage name based on or inspired by Crystal

125
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:42,880
Speaker 1: from this movie?

126
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,680
Speaker 4: It's definitely partially responsible, I would say. The other reason

127
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,360
Speaker 4: is when I started doing drag, I was working for Swarovsky.

128
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,960
Speaker 4: I ever heard of it, so it just felt like

129
00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,360
Speaker 4: it felt like a meeting of worlds because yeah, it

130
00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,480
Speaker 4: was a bizarre job selling crystals to people, and uh,

131
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,039
Speaker 4: it just felt like the right the right name for

132
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 4: me at the time that I personally want.

133
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,240
Speaker 1: To come Crystal, okay, hang on.

134
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 4: Unlike Nomi, I do want people to think I'm a whrror.

135
00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,600
Speaker 4: So I felt like the name Crystal was really gonna

136
00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,960
Speaker 4: help them get to that point a lot faster.

137
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it.

138
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,600
Speaker 3: I just love Gina Gershan so much.

139
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 4: I know incredible She's in.

140
00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,400
Speaker 3: I feel like she's in on it and not like

141
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 3: not everyone is. She may be the only person who

142
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 3: appears to be in on it absolutely, which is wild

143
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,560
Speaker 3: because Kyle McLachlan is in this movie and I feel

144
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 3: like he's always in on it, But by his own account,

145
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:44,680
Speaker 3: he was not in.

146
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:45,760
Speaker 4: He didn't know.

147
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,960
Speaker 3: Did he look at them? Did he see how they

148
00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,800
Speaker 3: did his hair? But his hair was wild?

149
00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,480
Speaker 4: Yes, incredible. The only other thing I would say about

150
00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,040
Speaker 4: it is that since it being my favorite movie in

151
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,920
Speaker 4: my twenties and me thinking it was the greatest thing

152
00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,840
Speaker 4: that it ever been made, I have since reevaluated things

153
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,520
Speaker 4: and I'll see it as a very problematic movie, which

154
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 4: I have a complicated relationship with, sure, and that's I

155
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,480
Speaker 4: think probably what we're gonna spend the next hour talking about.

156
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 1: Wow, Oh you think it's only going to be an hour,

157
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 1: I think again, Jamie, what is your history slash relationship

158
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 1: with Showgirls?

159
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 3: Shockingly sparse? I had never seen this movie all the

160
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,040
Speaker 3: way through. I do. I feel like I've mentioned a

161
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,679
Speaker 3: few different movies on most memorably Requiem movies I caught

162
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:42,120
Speaker 3: my dad watching at night. Requiem was the most memorable

163
00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,600
Speaker 3: of them, because that movie is horrific. But I do

164
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,600
Speaker 3: remember counting and watching show Girls once and being like

165
00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 3: ding Dong daughter alert and he was like, actually, I

166
00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,200
Speaker 3: think he tried to do the the now very popular

167
00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,240
Speaker 3: reclaiming argument to justify why he was watching it. He's like,

168
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 3: you know, people came down pretty hard on this movie

169
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 3: when it came out, myself included. But now that I'm

170
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 3: sitting with it, I think it makes some interesting points.

171
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 3: I was like, all right, all right, might say you're

172
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,160
Speaker 3: not technically wrong, but I have never really sat and

173
00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,640
Speaker 3: like watched the whole thing. And then I ended up

174
00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,760
Speaker 3: watching it twice all the way through it because I

175
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,920
Speaker 3: feel like, for this movie especially, you need a fun

176
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,600
Speaker 3: watch and then you need a critical watch because you

177
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 3: just need to let it wash over you. And I

178
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,120
Speaker 3: totally like watching it. Now, I don't know. I mean,

179
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 3: I liked it a lot. I want to go to

180
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,560
Speaker 3: rowdy screening of this, Like it is so problematic in

181
00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,760
Speaker 3: so many ways. We're going to talk about it. It's

182
00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,840
Speaker 3: just but it's so like the camp levels are just

183
00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 3: like off the chart. There's so much And this is

184
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,600
Speaker 3: true of this writer always, But the guy who wrote

185
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 3: this movie, I'm just like, what does he think? Women

186
00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,160
Speaker 3: talk like it?

187
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,880
Speaker 4: Ships?

188
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,720
Speaker 3: Ships, the chips, dog food.

189
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 1: So weird, and every other conversation is you're a whore. No,

190
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,680
Speaker 1: I'm not, you're a whore.

191
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,360
Speaker 4: I used to play a drinking game with this movie,

192
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,880
Speaker 4: where you would drink every time someone mentioned nails being

193
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 4: pushed down the stairs or accused Nomi of being a hooker,

194
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,160
Speaker 4: and you were drunk within the first five minutes of

195
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:24,600
Speaker 4: the movie.

196
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,240
Speaker 3: It was it's really it's it's like, it's so the

197
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,240
Speaker 3: water is so hot that it's cold again. There's just

198
00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,280
Speaker 3: like everything that happens is problematic, and you're just like

199
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 3: and it's so like sincerely done, and I just I

200
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,199
Speaker 3: don't know. I am baffled by it. I'm fascinated by it.

201
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,959
Speaker 3: I would like to see a rowdy screening of it.

202
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,800
Speaker 3: And I also like, don't really I was reading through

203
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,520
Speaker 3: the God so much has been written about this movie.

204
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,240
Speaker 3: I was reading through a fraction of it, and I

205
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,880
Speaker 3: don't necessarily came down on the like which this is.

206
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,680
Speaker 3: I think we encountered this with Starship Troops as well,

207
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,440
Speaker 3: which is which is obviously trying to be satire. But

208
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,880
Speaker 3: there's like this big argument that, like, this movie is

209
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,640
Speaker 3: actually good and it's playing six D chess and I

210
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,720
Speaker 3: don't believe that. But I think that's all right. I

211
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,440
Speaker 3: think Gina Gershon somehow is the only person in the

212
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,120
Speaker 3: entire production who knows what's going on. I don't even

213
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,600
Speaker 3: think Paul Verhoven knows what movie he's making, But for

214
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,920
Speaker 3: some reason, Gina Gershon bes and I cele it.

215
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 1: Rate that she reads a script and she knows what's up.

216
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 3: I know, just unbelievable and yeah, there's done stuff and

217
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 3: this is it that's horrific and reading the that I

218
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,280
Speaker 3: mean this, it's so unfair that this tanked Elizabeth Berkeley's career.

219
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 3: I think that was like one of my big takeaways.

220
00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,320
Speaker 3: And I mean, the way that this movie handles raised

221
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,559
Speaker 3: holy shit. But we'll get there. Yes, Caitlin, what's your

222
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:54,880
Speaker 3: history with show Girls?

223
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 1: I similarly have a very sparse history. I think about

224
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,280
Speaker 1: it wrong with us, I don't know. Oh about a

225
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,400
Speaker 1: year ago, I was like, I can't believe I've never

226
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 1: seen Showgirls. I am going to watch it. And I

227
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,480
Speaker 1: thought that I in that sitting watched the first half

228
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,840
Speaker 1: of the movie and then got sidetracked and then forgot

229
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,120
Speaker 1: to go back to it. And then when I started

230
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 1: prepping for this episode, and I was like, oh, I've

231
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,440
Speaker 1: already seen the first half, so you know, it's I

232
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 1: know what it's about. Turns out I had only watched

233
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,640
Speaker 1: the first ten minutes, but so much happens in that

234
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,400
Speaker 1: first ten minutes that it felt like an hour's worth

235
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:33,360
Speaker 1: of cinema.

236
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,440
Speaker 3: Nomi is living. Yeah, she's living on turbo mode all

237
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:38,959
Speaker 3: the time.

238
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 1: I would describe her performance in every scene as thrashing.

239
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 1: She's just doing a lot of thrashing about I.

240
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 3: Want to have sex in a pool like that. She

241
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 3: hates cars.

242
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 4: She will if there's a car in a scene with her,

243
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 4: she's gonna hit it.

244
00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,320
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, ooh, that didn't occur to me.

245
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:07,040
Speaker 1: She does a lot of storming out. The way she

246
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:12,560
Speaker 1: enters and exits scenes is just like it's something to behold.

247
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 3: She kind of reminds me of her entrances. Do you

248
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 3: remember that scene in I Frankenstein where I Frankenstein like

249
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,440
Speaker 3: there's a door available, but he crashes through the window

250
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,199
Speaker 3: instead because he's just dramatic.

251
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,520
Speaker 4: Me Malone as kool aid Man exactly.

252
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,439
Speaker 3: It's so great and I really enjoyed, like I don't know,

253
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,880
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed reading about how reclaimed and revered know

254
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,800
Speaker 3: me is and that there's literally I didn't have time

255
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 3: to watch it, but there's a whole documentary called You

256
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:46,760
Speaker 3: Don't Know Me.

257
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:53,920
Speaker 4: It's great, really yeah, the best really great. This is

258
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,280
Speaker 4: also sadly like I knew how conflicted I felt about

259
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,839
Speaker 4: this movie, so I consumed so much additional media in

260
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,000
Speaker 4: the past week about this movie, and it hasn't helped.

261
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,840
Speaker 4: But I now know far more than anyone needs to

262
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 4: know about Showgirls.

263
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,839
Speaker 1: So well, any fun facts I want to share, by

264
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:13,679
Speaker 1: all means.

265
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 4: I'll try and keep them to like a minimum, because

266
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,079
Speaker 4: otherwise we'll be here a while.

267
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,840
Speaker 1: Bring it, baby, Well, shall I do the recap and

268
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 1: please we'll go from there. Let's actually take a quick

269
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 1: break first and then come back for the recap twist. Okay,

270
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 1: the recap of show Girls. And before I begin, I

271
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,040
Speaker 1: will place a trigger warning for something that happens at

272
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,280
Speaker 1: the end of the movie. Trigger warning for rape and

273
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:56,760
Speaker 1: sexual assault. Okay, we meet Nomi. That's Elizabeth Berkeley. Also

274
00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,880
Speaker 1: apologies in advance if I call her Elizabeth her. I

275
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,000
Speaker 1: feel like I'm going to and it's on accident.

276
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 4: I oh, I do want I want that alternate Universe movie,

277
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 4: though I too want to see that one.

278
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 1: I just the names are too similar and I do

279
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,200
Speaker 1: think I will mix them up. But Elizabeth Berkley plays

280
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,240
Speaker 1: no Me Malone. We see her as she's hitchhiking to

281
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 1: Las Vegas. Ever heard of it?

282
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:24,080
Speaker 4: Oh?

283
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 1: She gets a ride from this guy, Jeff. She's like,

284
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to Vegas to be a dancer. He

285
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 1: is very sleazy. He says he's going to help her

286
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 1: get a job, but he ends up taking off with

287
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 1: her suitcase, so now she only has the clothes on

288
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 1: her back. She's obviously very upset, and this is when

289
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,480
Speaker 1: she meets Molly played by Gina Rivera, who sees no

290
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:54,120
Speaker 1: Me in distress and offers her adopt her.

291
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,560
Speaker 3: Question her, Yeah, pretty wild.

292
00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 4: When you see a girl in a leopard print to

293
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 4: throw up and almost get hit by a car, you

294
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,120
Speaker 4: think she should move in with me?

295
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 3: Yes, sat mom, truly I never in a million years

296
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,160
Speaker 3: thought that Jeff would return.

297
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 1: Jeff comes back.

298
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, bow unbowed with this movie. Things you

299
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 3: didn't want to resolve, you didn't know you wanted resolved

300
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 3: are resolved.

301
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,440
Speaker 1: Oh you thought there was going to be a loose

302
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 1: end with Jeff.

303
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah right, No, we're gonna cut back to Jeff. Jeff's

304
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 3: getting his.

305
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I really hope the sequel, had there been one,

306
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 4: would have opened with them driving into La and the

307
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 4: car is still swerving all over the road.

308
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,560
Speaker 1: Oh, Crystal, I've got news for you. There is a

309
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:44,680
Speaker 1: sequel to this movie.

310
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,600
Speaker 4: Oh I know, okay, but but it's a different story

311
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:50,280
Speaker 4: that sequel.

312
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't follow know me. It follows Penny.

313
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 4: What it follows Penny?

314
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 3: Yeah?

315
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,760
Speaker 1: Oh, and the actor who plays Penny in the first

316
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,639
Speaker 1: movie reprises her role and wrote, directed, and edited the movie.

317
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,359
Speaker 3: I believe my god, it's like that Selene Dion biopic.

318
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,399
Speaker 3: I really want to watch.

319
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 4: Oh, oh, I do you recommend that? Actually?

320
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:13,359
Speaker 3: Have you seen it?

321
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:14,120
Speaker 4: Yeah?

322
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,400
Speaker 3: I want to see it so bad.

323
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:16,439
Speaker 4: It made me cry twice.

324
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 1: What's that movie that, at the time of this recording

325
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,560
Speaker 1: is in theaters. It probably will have left by the

326
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 1: time this episode comes out. But it's the movie that

327
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,840
Speaker 1: Selene Dion plays herself in, and it's about Oh, I

328
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: think a woman loses her boyfriend, Like, her boyfriend dies

329
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,520
Speaker 1: but she still has his or someone something. There's a

330
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,280
Speaker 1: phone number and another guy she texts killing her boyfriend

331
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,399
Speaker 1: talking phone number. There's a movie. Okay, it's a woman

332
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,679
Speaker 1: who her boyfriend dies and she texts his phone number

333
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 1: to be like I miss you, and another guy ends

334
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 1: up with that phone number like a year or so later,

335
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 1: and so he's getting all these text messages being like

336
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,159
Speaker 1: she's saying like I miss you, I'm gonna go to

337
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 1: our special spot. And so then he shows up and

338
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 1: then they meet and then they fall in love, and

339
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,679
Speaker 1: Celine Dion plays his like his mom, I don't know,

340
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 1: I'm filling in the blanks. This is a real dream

341
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:20,719
Speaker 1: you had, This is a real movie. I swear it,

342
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,680
Speaker 1: and I think we should cover it on the show.

343
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,959
Speaker 3: I think we should too. Selite, I don't know why

344
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 3: why are we talking about selenein Oh because I derailed.

345
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 3: He was in Montreal the other day.

346
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 1: Uh huh brag.

347
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,960
Speaker 3: So we were like, for every year wrong about Torrisha,

348
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 3: we would like try to put like a local hero

349
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 3: over the like interes slide, and so we're like, let's

350
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 3: put on Celine Dion And I was like, oh, probably

351
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 3: that's the most obvious Canadian to pick. Everyone's probably sick

352
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 3: of like it's like, you know, doing a show and

353
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,399
Speaker 3: bosson and putting Mark Wahlberg on the screen. Boy was

354
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 3: I wrong?

355
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, sick of Celen.

356
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,400
Speaker 3: No, they love her. They were like, we they love her.

357
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,400
Speaker 4: I was also in Montreal last week and I went

358
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 4: to a karaoke bar and it was a very Francophone

359
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,240
Speaker 4: karaoke bar and it was just back to back Celine

360
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 4: Dion songs.

361
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 3: I love that. They love her so much. I thought

362
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 3: it was going to be a hack, but I was like, no,

363
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,479
Speaker 3: they one person stood a like wow, what a wild

364
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 3: well shout out to Selene Dion. For some reason, she

365
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 3: wouldn't be out of place in this movie.

366
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 4: No, no, I mean it's Vegas.

367
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 1: I mean she's had a residency.

368
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:31,719
Speaker 4: Yeah.

369
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

370
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:38,120
Speaker 1: Anyway, So back to Showgirls, I guess. Okay, so we've

371
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 1: met Nomi. She meets Mollie, who offers her a place

372
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 1: to crash. We cut to six weeks later, Nomi is

373
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: still living with Mollie. Nomi goes with Molly to work.

374
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: Mollie works in the wardrobe department for a show called Goddess,

375
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 1: which is a I guess Broadway style show. There's a

376
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 1: lot of dance, there's also a lot of nudity, and

377
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 1: Nomi is watching it and she loves it, and she

378
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,439
Speaker 1: feels inspired because of all the dancing, and she wants

379
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 1: to be a dancer in this type of show.

380
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 4: Have you ever been to one of these shows in Vegas?

381
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 1: No, I have tell us.

382
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 4: It was called Bite and it was vampire themed.

383
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 3: Oh oh my god.

384
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 4: Otherwise it was essentially the same. There were a lot

385
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 4: of sexy, topless ladies and there was problematic scenes. They

386
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 4: used a lot of like eighties hair rock. It was

387
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 4: a lot of like, you know, middle aged Midwestern couples

388
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,240
Speaker 4: there to like feel a little bit sexy with each

389
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 4: other while they were watching like a vampire lady without

390
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 4: a top. One called Ice doing Foreigner cold as Ice got.

391
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 3: You gotta mix you gotta mix things up. Marriage is

392
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:00,040
Speaker 3: a long.

393
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 4: So all that is to say is these shows are real,

394
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 4: and it's confusing to me that someone would aspire to

395
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 4: like the lead in one like that that could be

396
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 4: the goal of your career because I feel like it's

397
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 4: I feel like we should all have a little bit

398
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 4: higher aspirations than that.

399
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 3: That was My next question was, like, is like headlining

400
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 3: a show like this a huge, gigantic, like best thing

401
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 3: in Vegas the way that it's presented.

402
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 4: No, I don't think so, But I guess maybe in

403
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 4: this world, yes, Like maybe I guess they're big circ

404
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 4: Desilay shows, right.

405
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah.

406
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 4: Maybe in this world it's like a circ Deslay level show.

407
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 4: But even that doesn't have a headliner right.

408
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 1: Now, so I'm not sure.

409
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

410
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 1: Anyway, I you know, Nomi wants to be the star

411
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 1: of a show like this, and good for her.

412
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 4: True, true, that's what I say.

413
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 3: Ramon baby exactly.

414
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 1: The current star of the Goddess show is Crystal Connors

415
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 1: played by Gina Gershaan, who Meetsnmi and immediately insults her

416
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: when she tells Crystal that she works at Cheetah's and

417
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: Crystal is like, that's not real dancing, and Nomi is like,

418
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: you don't know shit, and she storms off as she

419
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 1: is wont to do.

420
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 3: I love her. She's so dramatic.

421
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 4: Your friend has nice nails.

422
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: Oh, there's like a look that comes over Elizabeth Berkeley's

423
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 3: face whenever she's about to storm away. I think it's

424
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 3: genuinely very good where you can just tell them like, oh, oh,

425
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,360
Speaker 3: Nomi's about to blo out, like.

426
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's great it is. Then Nomi and Molly

427
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: go to a club and one of the bouncers goes

428
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 1: up to know me and starts dancing with her. The

429
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: dance moves they're doing they're erratic, there, peculiar, and he's like,

430
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 1: you're not very good at dancing, but you've got potential

431
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 1: and I could teach you. And she doesn't like this,

432
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: so she kicks him in the nuts.

433
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 3: Oh right, which god, so much happens in this movie.

434
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: Right, And this instigates a big brawl at the club

435
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: and Nomi gets arrested, but then gets bailed out the

436
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: next day by the bouncer and he continues on this

437
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: like I could train you, I could teach you, but

438
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: she rejects him again. Also, we will eventually learn his

439
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: name is James. He's played by Glenn Plummer, but you

440
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: don't learn his name for a while. And I think

441
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: you only hear it on screen like once or twice,

442
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: maybe so, but that's James. Then we finally see Nomi

443
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: at work. She is a dancer at a strip club

444
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 1: called Cheetahs. We meet some of her colleagues like this woman,

445
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: Henrietta and Penny. We also meet her boss, Al he's

446
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: a very sleazy guy. He is also played by one

447
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: of the Fortelli brothers from the Goonies.

448
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Yeah, Wow, twist.

449
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: That night, Crystal Connors comes into the club with her

450
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: boyfriend Slash. Their relationship is maybe unclear, but his name

451
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: is Zach Carrey. That's Kyle McLaughlin. He is the entertainment

452
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: director of the hotel where the Goddess show is at.

453
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: The hotel is called I think the Stardust.

454
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: And he has bangs. I feel that Banks should be

455
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 3: a separate cast member. Yeah, it's weird that they're not

456
00:24:59,119 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: credited as.

457
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: Such, and so he's got like a side part and

458
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: the bangs are like swooped over. Sometimes they're in his eyes,

459
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: sometimes not proto Bieber kind of thing.

460
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 4: I have to admit that one of the few things

461
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 4: I remember about watching this as a preteen was finding

462
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 4: colmagloughlin hot. I mean, it's Colmagloughlin's still, but even with

463
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 4: the hair, and essentially because of the hair.

464
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the hair has angles. I will say, the

465
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: hair does have angles.

466
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 4: It looks so clean constantly as well, it's really shiny's.

467
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: He's being groomed. He it's also hair that's quite similar

468
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: to Jack Dawson.

469
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: It's true.

470
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: Think about that.

471
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: It's true. It's a it's it's a haircut that takes

472
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 3: place out of time.

473
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So they so, Zach and Crystal go to

474
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: Cheetahs to watch No Me dance or I don't know

475
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: if they go specifically because she's there, but they show

476
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: up in Know Me as there dancing, and then they

477
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: hire her to give Zach a private lap dance while

478
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: Crystal watches, and.

479
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 4: They basically invented the phrase, hey, we saw you from

480
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 4: across the bar, and we really like your vibe.

481
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 3: The vibe flailing.

482
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 4: Around, loved it when you licked that pole.

483
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: We love it when you thrash, and please thrash on me,

484
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what she does, and Zach and Crystal

485
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: they love it. Question Mark not really sure, but Zach comes,

486
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: he does come.

487
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 4: Yes, who wouldn't.

488
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 3: Who wouldn't had to have been a painful scene for him, right,

489
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know.

490
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: Hard to say, but James the bouncer is also at

491
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: the club because he is perpetually stalking No Me and

492
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: leering at her and things like that. Then James shows

493
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 1: up at Nomi's house on his bullshit again, being like,

494
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: you have so much natural talent as a dancer, let

495
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: me teach you, and then he also implies that she

496
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: shouldn't be wasting her talent quote unquote by being a stripper,

497
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: and she rightfully tells him to fuck off.

498
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 3: Right, she's very morally I mean, then this movie is

499
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 3: like attempt at a morality tale gets very very mercanti

500
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: sex work and confusing, Yes, for sure, and our girl

501
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 3: Nomi seems to change her mind about what her version

502
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: of morality is every twenty five seconds, which doesn't help.

503
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, That's the big discussion point for me

504
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: later on is the movie's attitude towards sex work. But

505
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: will get there.

506
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: It really is just like two guys feeling their way around.

507
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 4: In the dark, and you're just like yeah.

508
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 3: And then every interview there like, no, we went to

509
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 3: Vegas and we talked to like twenty people.

510
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 4: We went to Vegas and hired hookers.

511
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: As research, and they thought the script was great. I

512
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 3: was like, I don't know, Like I none of these

513
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 3: real life sex workers they allegedly talked to ever seemed

514
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 3: to come out of the woodwork, almost like they're making

515
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 3: it up.

516
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 4: Yeah right, I guess what. The thing to remember the

517
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 4: whole way through is whenever Nomi's upset that someone's just

518
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 4: called her a whore or a hooker or whatever they've

519
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 4: called her. It's because she's trying to leave that life behind,

520
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 4: and which is the reveal at the end of the

521
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 4: movie right right, spoiler alert. But so it kind of

522
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 4: makes sense a bit for that character. But it's almost

523
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 4: like the movie is no me deciding whether or not

524
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 4: she like how much she's willing to sell. I think

525
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 4: that is kind of an interesting idea. Sooner or later,

526
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 4: you're gonna have to sell it, which is like one

527
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 4: of the first lines in and I think that rings

528
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 4: true for all of us.

529
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: I mean, we're selling it right now.

530
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: Right now speaking, but subscribe to our Patreon. It's really

531
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 3: fun over there.

532
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, by some merch Alfred Molina feminist icon merch. You

533
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: need it.

534
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: Our selling is so embarrassing, that's my morality.

535
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: Tell okay. So, at work at Cheetahs, a guy shows

536
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: up to Tellnmi that they are holding auditions for the

537
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: show Goddess the following morning and that she should come

538
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: and audition. So she goes, but the producer, Tony Moss,

539
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: is an asshole, and it seems like she blows the audition.

540
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: So she confronts Crystal, being like, you got me this audition,

541
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: didn't you like? This was your doing? And Crystal is

542
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: like yeah, I like the way you dance, and Noomi

543
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: is like, well, I hate you, and then she storms

544
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: off again. Then she bumps into James and he brings

545
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: her to his house to show her some choreography that

546
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: he's working on. He's like, I wrote this for you

547
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: because I'm trying to put a show together with you

548
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: and some other dancers. So he starts teaching her the choreography,

549
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: which immediately leads to them making out and they almost

550
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: have sex. The scene is so wild. She's like, we

551
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: can't I have my period and then he's like yeah, right,

552
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: I don't believe you. And then she's like check and

553
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: so he puts his hands down her pants and confirms

554
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: that she does have her period, and then she's like okay, bye, and.

555
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 3: She's like I'm out of here. It's like, wow, that's

556
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 3: I mean, there's so many ways to have the last word,

557
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: and this is one of them. I kind of liked

558
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: that scene. She's so wild, And there's the way that

559
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: this reader writes about periods. It's so bizarre.

560
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 4: It never occurred to me the connection between this and

561
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 4: Romey and Michelle where she says, sorry, I cut my

562
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 4: foot earlier and my shoe is filling up with blood.

563
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 4: It's not a dissimilar way to end a conversation. If

564
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 4: you say you're bleeding, you might get out of that

565
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 4: awkward conversation.

566
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: She does something similar with her boss, I think maybe

567
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: in a scene that happens before this, but Al is like,

568
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,479
Speaker 1: where were you last night? And she was like, I

569
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: was having my period and then he's like, oh, well, okay.

570
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 3: He goes full like male gym teacher about it, and

571
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 3: which is great, but then it's I don't know, there's

572
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: just like lines in this movie. It's delightful. They just

573
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 3: keep going and you're like, why is this line still going?

574
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 3: And she's like, I had my period. You wouldn't want

575
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 3: me to get blood all over everything, would you.

576
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: You're like, know me, why is a woman bleeding so scary?

577
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 3: Men? I well, I mean to the stocky guys credit

578
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 3: question mark, He's like, I've got towels. I'm like, yeah,

579
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 3: that really is all that you need?

580
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: Yeah? Fair anyway, So No Me gets a call from

581
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: the producer Tony Moss saying that she has been cast

582
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: in the Goddess show so she quits her job at Cheetah's.

583
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: She goes to tell James the good news because I

584
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: guess they're friends now, but he has another woman over Penny,

585
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: who would go on to star in the sequel, and

586
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: he's telling her like, oh, I want you and my

587
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: show now and know me's I guess jealous, and she

588
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: basically storms off again. Then she goes to give her

589
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: like name and background info to the production for like

590
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: employment records, but she's vague and she doesn't seem to

591
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: know her Social Security number, and it's possible that she's

592
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: hiding something about her past.

593
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 3: Terrific Yeah.

594
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: Then she starts training and learning the choreography for the show.

595
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: She bumps into Zach aka Kyle McLaughlin and he's like, wow,

596
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: you look beautiful, and so there's like some flirtation brewing there,

597
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: and then her first show is that night because she

598
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: somehow learned all the choreography in a single day, and.

599
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 3: She's dancing her ass off. I love the dance scenes

600
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: in this movie. Even when they're confusing, they're very impressive.

601
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: What do you think is the narrative of the show? Goddess?

602
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: Question number one? Question number two? Does it pass? The

603
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: Bechdel Test.

604
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 4: I have always imagined that Goddess is like topless Fantasia,

605
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 4: where they're just little vignettes.

606
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 3: I like it.

607
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 4: About different goddesses and but like sexy.

608
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a motorcycle goddess.

609
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 4: You've got them. Yeah, the motorcycle rape dance scene doesn't

610
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 4: really fit for the title of the show.

611
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was not getting Goddess energy from that particular selection.

612
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 3: I'm wondering. So I know that there's like rocky horror

613
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 3: style performances of this show, and now I really want

614
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 3: to see them, because this is a show I would

615
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: like to see live. I feel like it's almost like,

616
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: why isn't there in Vegas like the show Girl's Experience,

617
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 3: Like there's an actual coyote ugly barn. Oh you know,

618
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 3: I feel like you should have access to Goddess.

619
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: You're so right, absolutely, it would destroy Well, yeah, let's

620
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: get to work on it together.

621
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay.

622
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: So then so Nomi has her first show, it goes well,

623
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: Zach sends her flowers, and then James shows up after

624
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: the show and he's like, I still want you to

625
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: be in my show. Who cares if I'm having sex

626
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: with other people? And she's likeugh, bye again and.

627
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 3: He'll be back again again.

628
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 4: Yes.

629
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: Then Crystal takes Nomi to lunch. This is where they

630
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: talk about eating doggy chow. The conversation is, I don't

631
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: know if any point of this movie is actually horny.

632
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: It the level of horniness, I guess is open to

633
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 1: interpretation in this movie. But there's like sexual tension between them. Yes,

634
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: they're having a conversation that's quite Again, the issue with

635
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: this whole movie is swarfy getting into like swarf territory,

636
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: and one example this conversation, the point is like we're

637
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,479
Speaker 1: establishing a lot of tension between them. They almost make out,

638
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: but then they don't, and Crystal is like, we're all

639
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: whores and so are you, and Noami's like fuck you

640
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: and she storms off again. And then Nomi gets offered

641
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: this gig to dance on a yacht at a boat convention,

642
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: and Mollie, who has kind of dropped out of the movie,

643
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: reappears and she's like, don't do it, and Nomi realizes

644
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: why because she discovers that she is expected to have

645
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: sex with like one of the casino's high rollers. So

646
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: she says fuck you and she storms off as she

647
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 1: always does, and then she tells Zach about this. Zach

648
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: pretends to be appalled, but the guy who sort of

649
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: orchestrated this whole thing, this guy Phil, does not actually

650
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: get in trouble. It seems like this is very par

651
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: for the course for like them, for lack of a

652
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: better term, like pimping out the performers of this show.

653
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like one of the many times where Kyle

654
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 3: McLaughlin's character acts like shocked by something that he obviously

655
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: knows exactly what's going on and is like actively working

656
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 3: to uphold it. It's one of the parts of the

657
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 3: movie that actually like works pretty well.

658
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, because this happens. This happens in a different capacity

659
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: later on, which we'll get to.

660
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 4: This is also the first time we hear the reference

661
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 4: to Caesar singing, which right becomes a stand in for

662
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 4: are you willing to sell your body? Which I also

663
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 4: really like as a euphemism because Kyle says it later.

664
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 4: Kyle magloughlin says it later We're Gonna Take You, and

665
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 4: hear Caesar sing, And then at the end of the

666
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 4: movie she does hear Caesar sing and it's like, oh,

667
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 4: this is this is it? It's happening.

668
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's parts that are good. There's no they really

669
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: close every loop, whether you like it or not.

670
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 4: They do anyway, that's what I call sex.

671
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: Now Caesar singing, Yeah, do you want to?

672
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 4: Do you want to hear Caesar sing tonight? Or yeah?

673
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 3: Yes?

674
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: Okay. So then Nomi goes home with Zach and they

675
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 1: have sex in his pool, which is once again mostly

676
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: just know me thrashing and flailing around.

677
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

678
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: Also, at some point, Gnmi has gone to James's show

679
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: that he originally wanted her to be a part of

680
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: the audience hates it, even though it seems like it's

681
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: a fine show when people are doing a fine job,

682
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: but like the audience is like, boo, you suck.

683
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 3: It's so there's it was like, what happened right before

684
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 3: she got here? Like yeah, right, yeah, did he throw

685
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 3: things at them?

686
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 4: It's confusing how this show is different to Goddess.

687
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: Right, I don't know. And then James is like, by

688
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 1: the way, Penny is gregnant and.

689
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: Go get me a beer, bitch, And then is like, anyways,

690
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: she's pregnant and I gave up on my dreams and

691
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: that's fine.

692
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 4: You're just like dances like a truck.

693
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 3: That's a good insult. And also she was dancing fine,

694
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 3: It's just.

695
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: Every choice in this movie is so bizarre. Okay, So

696
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: then Crystal's understudy gets injured during the show because of

697
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: this rivalry between two of the performers, which we don't

698
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: really know why that's happening, but this one performer causes

699
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: another one to get injured. So they hold auditions to

700
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: cast a new understudy for Crystal, and Nomi gets the part,

701
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: but Crystal figures out that me and Zach had sex

702
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: slash they heard Caesar sing, because that's again a brilliant euphemism,

703
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: and Crystal does not like this. She seems jealous or

704
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, there's unclear. But the next thing, Nomi knows

705
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 1: she does not have the understudy part anymore. But Nomi

706
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: is still performing in the show and her like rivalry

707
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: frenemie thing with Crystal continues to escalate to the point

708
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: where Nomi pushes Crystal down the stairs and she's badly injured,

709
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: and the producers are freaking out because Crystal is the

710
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: star and what if people don't come to the show

711
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: because Crystal isn't there, But they take a gamble and

712
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: put Nomi in.

713
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 3: The leading role big Phantom of the Opera energy to this.

714
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: Oh that's right.

715
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 3: Except well, there's so I can't wait to talk about,

716
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: like the dynamic between those two characters, because we've seen

717
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 3: this exact dynamic and so many cautionary shows his tails,

718
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 3: and I just want to lay them all out. It's

719
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: so such a thing anyways. But yes, now she is

720
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 3: the star, yep.

721
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: But Mollie is like, no me, you pushed her, didn't you?

722
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: And know Me is like tee no. And Molly is

723
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: very suspicious until she's not anymore for reason what reasons?

724
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 4: Because Mollie is a kind and trusting person.

725
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: I mean he bends over backwards so many times to

726
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: accommodate No Me.

727
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 3: Also at this point, like me, I think we're too

728
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 3: assume as making pretty good money and still has not

729
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: moved out right, get a life, know me? Seriously, you're

730
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 3: imposing mm hmmm.

731
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

732
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 4: There's only one bed in that trailer.

733
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a single and there aren't enough chips

734
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: to go around between the two of them. Okay, So

735
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: well they end up at the same party, Molly and

736
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 1: No Me, and Nomi introduces Molly to this musician guy

737
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: named Andrew Carver, whose name has like come up throughout

738
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: the movie prior to this, but now he's in Vegas

739
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: to perform, and Molly is a big fan of Andrew Carver.

740
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: But then, and I'll place another trigger warning here for

741
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: sexual violence and rape. But Andrew Carver and his cronies

742
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: gang rape Mollie and she is hospitalized. Nomi goes to

743
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: call the police, but Zach is like, don't do it, Polly. Yeah,

744
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: I know that your real name is Pollyann Costello, and

745
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: that your father killed your mother and then killed himself,

746
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: and you ran away from foster care, and then you've

747
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: been arrested several times for soliciting sex, in possession of

748
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: crack cocaine and assault with a deadly weapon. So much,

749
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: and I have all this on you, Polly, And Gnomi

750
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: is like, who cares about all that? What about my friend?

751
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: But Zach is more concerned about protecting Andrew Carver's reputation.

752
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: Sonmi takes matters into her own hands. She goes and

753
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: beats the shit out of Andrew Carver.

754
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: It's showtime.

755
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: Then she pays Molly a visit in the hospital to

756
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: like tell her what she did for her. Uh, and

757
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: then she also pays Crystal a visit, and Crystal is like,

758
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 1: I know why you pushed me. I did the same

759
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: thing to get where I'm at now, So there's no

760
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: hard feelings between them, and then they make out for

761
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: a little bit.

762
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 4: Such an intense kiss, Yes.

763
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 3: So intense. I like, I know that the kiss is legendary.

764
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 3: But Crystal is so fine when pushed down a flight

765
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 3: of stairs. She's like, it's it happens to every performer.

766
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 3: So I'm like, does it though?

767
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: You reach a certain age and you get pushed down

768
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: the stairs and don't even worry about it because I

769
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: got a huge settlement.

770
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 4: There's this thing where basically any character that Nomi interacts

771
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 4: with becomes completely obsessed with her. And yeah, you can.

772
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 4: You can get pushed down the stairs by her, and

773
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 4: you're still on team Nomi in this world so wild,

774
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:26,959
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter what she does.

775
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: It's true.

776
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 4: Yes, you just threw up on my car. Time to

777
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 4: move in, You push me down the stairs, have about

778
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 4: a big kiss.

779
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 3: She can do no wrong.

780
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 1: Oh you need me in the nuts, let me bail

781
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: you out of jail.

782
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,919
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I forgot about that one.

783
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: Wow, it's wild. Okay, So then Nomi has you know,

784
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: tied up her loose ends, and then she hitchhikes out

785
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: of Vegas and she gets a ride from the same

786
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: guy that she got a ride from at the beginning,

787
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: this guy Jeff, who doesn't recognize her at first because

788
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: she's incognito mode, but then.

789
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 3: She's moon mode.

790
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, this.

791
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 4: Must be a different hot, tall, blonde lady and a

792
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 4: leopard print talk, right, but her leopard print top from

793
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 4: from the beginning, it's become like sheeny, so it's like

794
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 4: she's got money now, so he couldn't have recognized her sunglasses.

795
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: Too, sunglasses. She takes off her sunglasses and he's like,

796
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's you. And she's like, give me

797
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: my fucking suitcase. And then it's implied that she's headed

798
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles. Ever heard of it?

799
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 3: Who? In the end, incredible who?

800
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: So that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and

801
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: we'll come back to discuss.

802
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 3: And we're back.

803
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: Okay, where to start, Crystal?

804
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 3: What jumps out to you? Where would you like to start?

805
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 4: Wow? Wow, that is a big question.

806
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, besides everything out Yeah cool, Well, I think I'm

807
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 5: going to throw it to that documentary you mentioned earlier,

808
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 5: which is you don't know me, which says that there

809
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 5: are three different ways to watch this movie, which is

810
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 5: it's a piece of shit, it's a masterpiece, or it's

811
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 5: a masterpiece of shit.

812
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 4: And I think that third category is where I've also landed,

813
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 4: where there is so much to love about it, so

814
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 4: much that is completely baffling, and there's so much that's deeply,

815
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 4: deeply wrong, And to enjoy this movie you have to

816
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 4: accept kind of all of those things at once and

817
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 4: like cherry pick the parts you love and like be

818
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 4: critical of the parts you don't. You mentioned wanting to

819
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 4: see this live, and as a gay man and a

820
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 4: drag artist, I've had the pleasure of seeing this live

821
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 4: many many times. What I would say is, for an example,

822
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 4: often when drag productions of this movie are done, they'll

823
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 4: cut out the rape scene because it's so incongruous with

824
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 4: the camp ness of the rest of the movie.

825
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 3: I very much prefer.

826
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 4: That, yeah, that happens, or I've seen it where they've

827
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 4: cut it and then brought out a great stripper to

828
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 4: like give a great stripperroutine. We're like, we're gonna spend

829
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 4: this next three minutes just being like, look, how great

830
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,439
Speaker 4: live sex work is awesome, Like, there's lots of fun

831
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 4: ways to do it, but that isn't. It's almost like

832
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 4: it feels a bit like cheating to pretend that that

833
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 4: scene isn't in the movie, because it was alviously very

834
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 4: intentional and it's part of the of the narrative that

835
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 4: they're really trying to tell about this movie, which is like,

836
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 4: you know, how far are you willing to go for

837
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 4: success and for fame and like what is the cost

838
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 4: of the American dream?

839
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 1: Right?

840
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 4: You almost have to decide if you're gonna watch if

841
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 4: you're going to watch the fun version of Showgirls or

842
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 4: a you're going to watch the serious version of Showgirls.

843
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 3: Right.

844
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: So, at the time when this movie came out, it

845
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: was horribly received, tanked at the box office, it was

846
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: poorly reviewed. Kyle McLaughlin saw the movie and he's like,

847
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: this absolutely sucks.

848
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 3: Ruined Elizabeth Barkley's career completely.

849
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: Yes. Joe Estrahouse, who wrote the screenplay, was like, mistakes

850
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: were made. Paul Verhoven was like, damn, I guess I

851
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: made a bad movie. But he also like embraced that.

852
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: People started appreciating it as like camp trash and he

853
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: like went to the Razzies Awards and accepted his Razzie

854
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: for Worst Director.

855
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: Which is like, sure, I guess, sure, yeah, might as

856
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 3: well also camp because.

857
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know exactly the kind of trajectory of

858
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,479
Speaker 1: like critics being like this sucks, but then a bunch

859
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: of audiences being like, but it's so bad, it's good

860
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: and it's fun and the dancing and you know that

861
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Because at some point it achieved, you know,

862
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: the cult status that it still has. And then also

863
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: at some point there were a lot of people who

864
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: kind of re evaluated this movie and said it's actually

865
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: brilliant satire and that satire was intentional obviously, and then.

866
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 3: Right, there's Paul Verhoeven movies. You can make that argument

867
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 3: for it, just not this one.

868
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 1: Just not this one. But I also, like, I see

869
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: that to some extent, because this is a movie about

870
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: how a place like Vegas and an industry like the

871
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: entertainment industry commodifies people, and it commodifies sexuality and particularly

872
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: women's sexuality and women's bodies, and it sells it as

873
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: a product. And there's also like a hierarchical element to

874
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: that where some people are quote unquote more valuable as

875
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: a commodity than others because you have these stars like

876
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: Crystal and like that guy Andrew Carver who make the

877
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: venues a lot of money and the producers a lot

878
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: of money, and so they have to be protected, but

879
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: they can also be replaceable to some extent because they

880
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: are treated as a commodity, which is like I think

881
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: best demonstrated. There's a few different scenes that really clearly

882
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: demonstrate this. I'll cite to in particular. It's like parallel scenes. Basically,

883
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: there's one scene at the beginning of the movie with

884
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: Crystal and then another scene toward the end of the

885
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: movie with Nom where I don't know if he's like

886
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: the owner of the Star Dust Hotel or what this

887
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: guy's job is, but he's kind of like interviewing both

888
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: of them, and he's giving this like speech verbatim saying like,

889
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: we could have gotten anyone for the show.

890
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 4: Paula Abdul, huge.

891
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 3: For Paula Abdul.

892
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: He's like, but we needed this star and she's perfect

893
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: and talented and so sexy and blah blah blah. And

894
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: it's the same speech about two different people who occupy

895
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: this starring role at different parts of the movie, because

896
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: again they're selling these women as a commodity and as

897
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: long as they have certain traits and certain talents, it

898
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who it is according to this industry that

899
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: they're working within, right, And it's this type of you know,

900
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: commodification that makes people feel like they have to be

901
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: very competitive of each other. And again, whether that's intentional

902
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 1: in this movie or not, like intentional commentary or not,

903
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: that is what's happening where you see all these different rivalries,

904
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: the main one of course being between Gnomi and Crystal.

905
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 1: This movie has been like cited as being like pretty

906
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: much a ripoff for a remake or whatever of All

907
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: About Eve.

908
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 3: Which it's like definitely, I don't know. I was thinking

909
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 3: about this specific dynamic, which is like so complicated for

910
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 3: a lot of reasons of a lot of which you

911
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 3: just said, of like the inherent competition. I feel this

912
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 3: movie kind of does an above average job. It's not doing,

913
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 3: you know, all about Eve numbers of making this dynamic

914
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 3: a little clearer for the kind of because I feel like,

915
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 3: you know, in we've seen this dynamic a lot of

916
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 3: times all about Eve, I feel like you also see

917
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 3: a version of it in Black Swan, you see it

918
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 3: in Chicago, you see it in the Favorite, and it's

919
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 3: like there's a new girl in town, and you better

920
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 3: watch your back because there can only be like this

921
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 3: industry institution, whatever it is. It's often show business. There's

922
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 3: often a like Kyle McLaughlin type character where it's like,

923
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 3: now he's my boyfriend because I'm new and young and cool,

924
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 3: and like the tacit implication there is like there is

925
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 3: only room for one of you, so you will have

926
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 3: to tear each other down in order to be that

927
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 3: one because there's only one spot. And it's very fleeting

928
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 3: and like it's a story we've seen so many times,

929
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 3: and it's so clearly based in how I think especially

930
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 3: women are and also just perform in general, although I

931
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 3: feel like we see it most frequently between women are

932
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 3: like conditioned to see each other and like how institutions

933
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 3: like this and like the City of Chicago question work

934
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:20,479
Speaker 3: uh and ballet and like how you're conditioned to turn

935
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 3: against each other and conditioned to be competitive over supportive

936
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 3: and that's the only way you can survive. And it's

937
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 3: like it's so tricky because I think that when those

938
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 3: stories are written poorly it makes it seem like this,

939
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 3: which this movie kind of is, but I feel like

940
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 3: it does well. We should talk about it, like how

941
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 3: I think when it's poorly written, it makes it seem

942
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 3: like an inherent quality of like because there are two

943
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 3: women and one is ten years older, they have to

944
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 3: hate each other and this is just like the natural

945
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 3: order of things, and it is not an institutional symptom

946
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,439
Speaker 3: of like how they and conditioned to view each other

947
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 3: and how they've been conditioned to view themselves. And I

948
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 3: feel like this movie actually does above average at that.

949
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 3: We've definitely seen it done much worse, which I guess

950
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 3: is a bar on the floor kind of thing.

951
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: Right. It's weird because the movie, the movie feels like

952
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: a movie that.

953
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 3: Like go to the theater type film for sure.

954
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: It's a movie written and directed by men who again

955
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 1: don't seem to know how women interact, but.

956
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 3: Which is really funny. Just like, no one tell him.

957
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 4: Goofy, let him keep making these movies.

958
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: Can you imagine being that guy's like partner and being like,

959
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 3: you think I'm doing what when I'm with my friends?

960
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 3: You think we're talking about what exactly?

961
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 4: Yeah? Dog food? Right, doc?

962
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: Dog food? And you go shopping at first Saces Together,

963
00:54:58,960 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: et cetera.

964
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 3: Okay, I I thought the versafespit was good class commentary. Yeah,

965
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 3: I've done shit like that. Oh with The last thing

966
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 3: I want to say is, yeah, I think this movie

967
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 3: doesn't above average job. And every time I see this dynamic,

968
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 3: it does like it really sucks. How I think that

969
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 3: this is still something very very present in a lot

970
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 3: of industries, and it reminds me of how I was

971
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 3: sort of spoken to and like encouraged to feel and

972
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 3: kind of like came in with this attitude when I

973
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 3: started doing stand up of like, well, there's not a

974
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 3: lot of space for you, and you're gonna have to like,

975
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,919
Speaker 3: you know, don't bother making friends. And in a way

976
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 3: that quickly was like, oh fuck this, you know, like

977
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 3: I'm losing money every time I walk out the door.

978
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make a friend.

979
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

980
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:53,479
Speaker 3: But I feel like there were like I had early

981
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 3: experiences in comedy where you know, it's like either you're

982
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,439
Speaker 3: like a threat because you're new and and there's only

983
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 3: so many spots and it's I don't know, I think

984
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 3: that that has certainly lessened as in the last you know,

985
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 3: in the ten years I've been performing, but it still

986
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 3: felt like I was like, oh god, yeah, like the

987
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,280
Speaker 3: early to mid twenty tens, it felt very very present

988
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 3: in a culture.

989
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. I had a lot of similar experiences in my

990
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: early stand up career where I couldn't tell you how

991
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 1: many shows I did where I was the only woman

992
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: or fem on the lineup, and I was kind of

993
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: conditioned because this was like twenty ten ish. I was

994
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: at the time conditioned to think that that's something I

995
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 1: should be proud of, where it's like, well, we have

996
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: one spot for a woman, and you got it, and

997
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 1: you got it, and we filled our quota because that's

998
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: all the more any booker wanted to put on the

999
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: show is one woman. And I would be like, Wow,

1000
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 1: I got it. I got the spot on this show.

1001
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,919
Speaker 1: I get to talk to all these guys that scussers

1002
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 1: like verbally assaulted me throughout the entire fucking show.

1003
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 3: I got so I think I've talked about this on

1004
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 3: the show before. I got so not so many, but

1005
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 3: like a couple and one very memorable one, like when

1006
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 3: the me Too movement first started. I think just like

1007
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 3: men in Boston that were like oh fuck, and like

1008
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 3: a guy that I mean he remember, yeah, yeah, he

1009
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 3: sent me this long message to that was like, sorry,

1010
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 3: I talked about you disgustingly every time I was around you,

1011
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 3: and I was like, wow, I actually didn't know that

1012
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 3: was happening a lot of the time, and now I do,

1013
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 3: so thank you for telling me that you're horrible. I

1014
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 3: didn't really know. Yeah, But I mean that that goes

1015
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 3: both ways. Where it's like when I started performing, there

1016
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 3: was like a show I did where there were two women,

1017
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 3: very thrilling, but it was like the middle of summer.

1018
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 3: It was like one hundred fucking degrees, and I was

1019
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 3: wearing shorts on stage, and the only other women on

1020
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 3: the lineup was like, you can't dress like that on stage.

1021
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 3: Like take it from me, I'm thirty and you can't

1022
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 3: wear shorts.

1023
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 4: And it's like and so you pushed her down the stairs.

1024
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 3: I did, but she was fine with it and then

1025
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 3: we kissed.

1026
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 4: I think what you were saying about this like antagonistic

1027
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 4: relationship between two women, though. I think it's one of

1028
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 4: the things that I've struggled with with loving this movie

1029
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 4: because it's something that typically gay men have loved to

1030
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 4: watch in movies, you know, from Mean Girls to This,

1031
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 4: to Black Swan to All About Eve, like these camp

1032
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 4: movies have a place in gay culture. Death Becomes Her, Yeah,

1033
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 4: and it's it's definitely, it's definitely problematic, and it's definitely

1034
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 4: something to do with and a you know, misogyny within

1035
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 4: the gay scene where it's fun to watch women be

1036
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 4: shitty to each other. And it's something that I find

1037
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 4: less and less appealing now, but it's you can still

1038
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 4: go on Twitter today and watch you know, men pit

1039
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 4: Gaga against Taylor Swift or Beyonce, and you know, it's

1040
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 4: not something that's gone away. I think what you say

1041
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 4: about this movie doing a better job of it than

1042
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 4: most is actually true because there is nuance and it's

1043
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 4: not just two women involved. There's what I like about

1044
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 4: this movie is that there's so many different women and

1045
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 4: none of them are saying things that really make any sense.

1046
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 4: But they all have distinct and different motivations and goals

1047
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 4: and like, some of them suck and some of them don't,

1048
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 4: and some of them are trying to figure out where

1049
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 4: they fit. And I like that for this movie.

1050
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 3: Yeah right, this is very much a women's rights and

1051
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 3: women's wrongs type of movie.

1052
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I guess. The bottom line is women

1053
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: have historically sometimes had rivalries and tension among them or

1054
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: between them, but there's almost always context for it, and

1055
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: it's like institutional patriarchal context. And it's a matter of

1056
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: does the story recognize that context and comment on it,

1057
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: or is it you know, men who have just seen

1058
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: women be petty toward each other and not understand why

1059
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: and just assume, oh, well, this is just how women are.

1060
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: Women are petty with each other, and so I'm going

1061
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: to put that in the movie. And it seems like, yeah,

1062
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 1: this movie does understand the context because it examines, like,

1063
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, the way that like the entertainment industry doesn't

1064
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: value aging women.

1065
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's actually the whole point of the movie. It's like,

1066
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 4: the basically the whole message of this film is the

1067
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 4: show business industry choose women up.

1068
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1069
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 4: I would say, if it has one point of view,

1070
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 4: it's that I remember, I think, I remember you talking

1071
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 4: about this on Your Death becomes Her episode where the

1072
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 4: motivation for their animosity is you thought I was cheap, Yeah,

1073
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 4: and you stole my man? Are you still motivation? Those

1074
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 4: are weak motivations to kill each other and push someone

1075
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 4: down the stairs. Which also happens in that movie.

1076
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: Wow, Gina Gershan's head should have twisted all the way

1077
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: around like it does, because.

1078
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 3: Wouldn't have felt out of place in this city there.

1079
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 3: It's so And then I also had like a whole

1080
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 3: and then I was like Jamie too much, too much.

1081
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 3: But I was like, how connected is this too? Like

1082
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 3: this movie comes out like a couple of years after

1083
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 3: like Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan, and like I was like, oh,

1084
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 3: I wonder if that was on the writer's mind or

1085
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 3: if he really was just like no no brain for

1086
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 3: this one. Just women be pushing each other down the stairs,

1087
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 3: but there is it's always contextualized, and I like that.

1088
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 3: It's like I think that this is even though it's

1089
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 3: like bizarre, it makes no sense that Crystal is like,

1090
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 3: it's all good. This was gonna happen to me anyways,

1091
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 3: So I'm glad it was someone I had a crush

1092
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 3: on who pushed me down on the stairs. Whatever. But

1093
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 3: I feel like it. I like that the movie makes

1094
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 3: a very deliberate decision to end things well between them.

1095
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 3: I mean, like, really, well you get that'll kiss in

1096
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,919
Speaker 3: a way that I think the only version of that

1097
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 3: ending that I like better is Chicago. But I'm such

1098
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 3: a Chicago head where it's like, well, we don't really

1099
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 3: like each other, but we got to take this show

1100
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 3: on the road because it's the only way we could

1101
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 3: retain our value to society.

1102
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: And they're showgirls too, they are.

1103
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,919
Speaker 3: That's another show I would love to see live. Anyways. Yeah,

1104
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 3: I like that. The movie wants, however, bizarrely wants Crystal

1105
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 3: and No Mean to end in a good place. That

1106
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 3: feels rare true.

1107
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: I think another thing the movie does that it's interesting

1108
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: and accurate is that it presents every male character working

1109
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: within this, you know, very despicable industry that again commodifies

1110
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: people and women and women's bodies and all this stuff.

1111
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 1: Shows the men as being manipulative, sleazy, gross, very aggressive,

1112
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: like all of these things, predatory, all this stuff, rapists, stalkers,

1113
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: rape apologists, just horrible people. Again not hashtag not all men. Wow,

1114
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: I said it.

1115
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 3: But someone's going to clip this out and be like

1116
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 3: they've changed.

1117
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 1: It's so common, especially the people who have any power

1118
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 1: in an industry like this, to treat women as commodities

1119
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: and to exploit them and exploit their labor and all

1120
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: this stuff so we see that in this movie.

1121
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 4: What do you think the movie's point of view is

1122
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 4: about James?

1123
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 3: So confusing?

1124
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 4: I don't like them movie thinks James is a good guy.

1125
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree. I think that he's presented as the

1126
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: least bad of them, even though he's continually stalking her.

1127
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 4: Yeah he's awful. He's awful, yeah to.

1128
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 3: Her, Yeah he's the and yeah. I felt like, especially

1129
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 3: in the last scene, I wonder how this felt to

1130
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 3: watch in nineteen ninety five, because I'm like, oh, are

1131
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 3: we supposed to think he's like the one that got away?

1132
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 4: I think so, right, But he just.

1133
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 3: Called his pregnant girlfriend a bitch in front of us,

1134
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 3: and we're like, wow, she should have ended up with him.

1135
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 3: Question mark.

1136
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: He also does a thing where he's like, I bailed

1137
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: you out, so you owe me, Like I did something

1138
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: for you and now you owe me sex and right,

1139
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 1: He's very awful, But yeah, the movie does not frame

1140
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 1: him as being the same type of like bad as

1141
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: all the other men.

1142
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 3: It is.

1143
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 4: It's confusing.

1144
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:00,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we've talked about this. It's some way

1145
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 3: I forget in what context on the show before, But like,

1146
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 3: I think he's definitely like the best, worst guy, or

1147
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 3: that's what they want us to think, is like he's

1148
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 3: the best man we meet in the story, but everyone

1149
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 3: is awful. So the fact that like he and I

1150
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 3: don't even know if this is true, like he's the

1151
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think we are supposed to think

1152
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 3: he's good in comparison to how all the men around

1153
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 3: him behave, but like he's still awful. I can't believe

1154
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 3: that we're supposed to be like he's the one that

1155
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 3: got away when he's like, go get me a beer, bitch,

1156
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 3: you dance like a truck, right, yes.

1157
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, while we're on his character. Something that the movie

1158
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: does that I found a bit nefarious is the movie

1159
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: tricks you into thinking it's going to be more diverse

1160
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 1: than it actually is, because Molly and James are introduced

1161
01:05:56,040 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 1: early on and are presented as being important characters or

1162
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: characters who you think are going to be in the

1163
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 1: story as important characters throughout. But the movie, to quote

1164
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: our favorite song from a Star is Born, they fall

1165
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 1: by the wayside as the story progresses.

1166
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 3: As like by the wayside iconic song from a Star

1167
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 3: is Born twenty eighteen and what.

1168
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 1: Is Showgirls but a story about a star who is

1169
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 1: born you know, from a volcano. Wow, it's true, Goddess,

1170
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: there is an interracial relationship, which is not something you

1171
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: would commonly see on screened for like a major motion

1172
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: picture in ninety five, And if an interracial relationship was

1173
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: in a movie in that era, there was a lot

1174
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,919
Speaker 1: of attention called to it, like called to the fact

1175
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: that a black man is kissing a white woman. How scandalous,

1176
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 1: how you know whatever. But this movie very normalizes it.

1177
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very matter of fact.

1178
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: The relationship is awful, and he's manipulative in a stalker,

1179
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: but at least it normalizes people of different races kissing

1180
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: each other and checking if they have their period. That

1181
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: should be normalized.

1182
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of amazing. But well, and then I think

1183
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 3: it also is very I don't know, like telling of

1184
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 3: the movie sort of, I don't know, Like I mean, obviously,

1185
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 3: there are two white women at the center of this story,

1186
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 3: and the fact that Mollie, who's the only black woman

1187
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 3: who gets any meaningful space in the story, is chosen

1188
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 3: as the one to be violently assaulted feels very pointed.

1189
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 3: And I don't know, I was reading about how like

1190
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 3: the experience for Gina rivera of filming that scene, it

1191
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 3: sounds like it was really traumatic, especially for such an

1192
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 3: unnuw necessary exploitative scene that she's only seen the movie

1193
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 3: one time because and left during the premiere during that

1194
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 3: scene because she's like, I don't need to see that again,

1195
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 3: and like, your body doesn't you know, you can know

1196
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 3: your acting, but your body doesn't really know the difference

1197
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 3: when that is done. And I wonder I wasn't able

1198
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 3: to find out, maybe, you know, Crystal, like if there

1199
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:25,759
Speaker 3: was any sort of intimacy coaching or any sort of anything.

1200
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 3: I'm assuming there wasn't.

1201
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 4: I'm assuming there wasn't as well.

1202
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 3: And that's so, I mean, it feels very pointed in

1203
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 3: how comfortable people are just exploiting black women in movies.

1204
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 3: And also it's only done to advance Nome's story of

1205
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 3: like to present her with the big problem, and the

1206
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 3: fact that a writer couldn't conceive of another way for

1207
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 3: that to happen is just like gross. I mean, yeah,

1208
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 3: by far the worst part, and.

1209
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:56,759
Speaker 1: It happens at the eleventh hour.

1210
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 4: It's like, why, yeah, this really comes out of nowhere? Yeah,

1211
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 4: like they could have well, Paul Verhoven loves shocking graphic violence,

1212
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 4: Like every one of his movies has like vomit, people

1213
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 4: getting blown up disgustingly, and there's seems to be a

1214
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 4: rape scene in every one of his movies. As my

1215
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,719
Speaker 4: husband said, I think I think Paul Overhoven's a pervert.

1216
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 4: And it's kind of hard to argue with that. It's like,

1217
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 4: why does this need to happen in every one? Paul

1218
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 4: like we can we can experience the horrors of rape

1219
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 4: and rape culture without actually needing to visually experience the

1220
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,640
Speaker 4: horrors of it. Absolutely, and I think his point of

1221
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 4: view is people should be confronted with how awful this is.

1222
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 4: We've been kind of dancing around this whole movie, what

1223
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 4: this industry is all about, and I'm going to make

1224
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 4: sure you understand what it's really about. Here at the

1225
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 4: very end, I can see what he was trying to do, but.

1226
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 1: The way the scene is framed and just shot and

1227
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: it's just extremely triggering for the and for the actor.

1228
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: I want to share some quotes from Gina Rivera. The

1229
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: scene took nine hours to film and it seems like

1230
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,639
Speaker 1: it was just pure torture for her the entire time.

1231
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 1: She says, quote, when you do a scene like that

1232
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 1: your body doesn't know it's not real. Jimmy, you already

1233
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: alluded to that. I don't know if I would have

1234
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: taken the movie if I had understood that. She then adds,

1235
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: I took the rape scene very seriously because when you

1236
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 1: see rape on film, you know you're representing people who

1237
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: have lived through it. I thought, I'm going to do

1238
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 1: this scene so the girl who goes to that party

1239
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:42,599
Speaker 1: and gets asked to that room doesn't go into it.

1240
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 1: I was willing to do the scene for that person

1241
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 1: because this is a real moment in the world. Unfortunately,

1242
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: women are victims of this violence unquote, which I appreciate

1243
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: that she seems to have taken that moment of the

1244
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: story with like, you know, she handled it with as

1245
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: much care as she could. But again, the way that

1246
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,360
Speaker 1: it unfolds unscreen, and the fact that it unfolds unscreen

1247
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 1: at all is completely unnecessary, which is something that Joe

1248
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: Esterhouse later admits. He says that rape scene was a

1249
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: god awful mistake in retrospect, A terrible mistake.

1250
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 3: I mean, truly the least he can do, right given there, Yeah,

1251
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 3: I mean, and then yeah, even from like a narrative

1252
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 3: perspective it happening that late in the movie is like,

1253
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 3: what the fuck are you doing? Like truly, Yeah, I.

1254
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 4: Think it's one of the worst and the biggest crimes

1255
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 4: of this movie is the effect that that scene had

1256
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 4: on the actress who did it, And I think that's

1257
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 4: it's probably the most unforgivable thing about this movie. The

1258
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 4: other thing I would say is what it did to

1259
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,759
Speaker 4: Elizabeth Berkeley's career, Like those are the two like real

1260
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 4: world impacts that this movie's had. And despite it trying

1261
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 4: to make a movie about how show business destroys women,

1262
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 4: being a vehicle to destroy women, yeah, which is really

1263
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:15,759
Speaker 4: really troubling and strange and ironic. I guess I also

1264
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 4: read something you Know to just kind of further dig

1265
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 4: that hole that Gina Rivera was meant to have a

1266
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 4: topless scene in the trailer as well, which for no reason,

1267
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 4: but she was going to just be coming out of

1268
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 4: the shower in one of the scenes and she said,

1269
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 4: I don't want to I don't see how this is

1270
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 4: necessary for my character, or you've already got a movie

1271
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 4: that's full of breasts, Like why do you need mine?

1272
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 4: And she apparently had to have a real fight with

1273
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 4: Paul Verhoven about not doing a topless scene. It's just

1274
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 4: and again it's like, what point would that have served

1275
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 4: other than if you're a woman in this movie, we

1276
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 4: should we should be able to see your brains.

1277
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: You have to see titties.

1278
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:55,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, and it sucks that. I mean, like Gina Gershon,

1279
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 3: I'm really glad she spoke up for herself. And also

1280
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 3: I'm sure that not every actor in the movie felt

1281
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 3: like they could advocate for themselves like that because they're

1282
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:08,800
Speaker 3: viewed as replaceable, which like is what the movie is about, right,

1283
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 3: But I felt, I mean, yeah, I feel especially because

1284
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 3: of where Elizabeth Berkeley was in her career. I think

1285
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 3: she was like twenty when this movie was filmed. She's

1286
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 3: very young. She had been on Saved by the Bell

1287
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 3: and I think we, I mean, this is like opens

1288
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 3: a huge can of worms that we probably don't have

1289
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 3: time to get into today. But this was like her

1290
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 3: role of like I am an adult now, which I

1291
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 3: think is something a pressure that's put most often on

1292
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 3: young women in Hollywood. We saw, I mean, we've seen

1293
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,680
Speaker 3: it a million different versions of it. I feel like,

1294
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 3: you know, Zendea doing Euphoria is like now I'm doing

1295
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 3: the adult thing, and it's not just like I'm going

1296
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 3: from being a child's entertainer, which I have a ton

1297
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 3: of thoughts about anyways, to like now I am a

1298
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 3: sexual creature, and like, I don't know, like it's it

1299
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 3: really depends on how the actor actually feels about it,

1300
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,639
Speaker 3: and if you want to like take a part like that,

1301
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 3: fucking go for it. But I feel like there's also

1302
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 3: just like an implied pressure to take a part like that,

1303
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 3: to declare like I am no longer a child, I

1304
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 3: am super no longer a child. I will be you know.

1305
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 3: And Elizabeth Berkeley taking a huge swing by taking this

1306
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 3: part and then being like mocked for it is just

1307
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 3: so ugly. She it is a very flaiy performance. But

1308
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 3: Paul her Hooften says years later, I don't know why

1309
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 3: he doesn't say it at the time that that was

1310
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 3: like a result of his direction, Like he was like,

1311
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 3: go big in every scene, so it like it was

1312
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,599
Speaker 3: just made out to be like, oh, she's a terrible actor,

1313
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 3: how embarrassing that she was in this exploitative movie, and

1314
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 3: like who does she think she is? Blah blah blah.

1315
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 3: Was like the framing of the framing of her and like,

1316
01:14:58,040 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 3: obviously that has a huge effect on you when you're

1317
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 3: twenty one years old, and like it's I don't know.

1318
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, She's been really consistent as well about how she

1319
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 4: loved making it. She loved making the movie. Like if

1320
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 4: you watch the clips of her doing the interviews during

1321
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 4: the filming, she's having the best time. And even twenty

1322
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 4: years later, she attends a screening and she talks about

1323
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 4: how she felt like when she was making this movie

1324
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 4: that she was living her dreams, she was having the

1325
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 4: no Me moment, she was making something that was, you know,

1326
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 4: going to be career changing for her, but she also

1327
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 4: loved doing and so I think in a way, if

1328
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 4: if it hadn't tanked, and if it hadn't ruined her

1329
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 4: acting career, it would really solve a lot of a

1330
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 4: lot of the problems around this movie. But the fact

1331
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 4: that it did cheer her up and spit her out

1332
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:49,680
Speaker 4: is is really sad. I want you to go back

1333
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 4: to what you were saying about race as well, though,

1334
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 4: because yeah, there's I think three black characters in the movie.

1335
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:00,600
Speaker 4: There's Crystal's understudy, there's no Mean's love interest, and then

1336
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:04,520
Speaker 4: there's Molly and all three of them are again destroyed

1337
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 4: essentially in one way or another. What I would say

1338
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 4: that this movie is trying to do. I think it

1339
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 4: is trying to make that point. And I have read

1340
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 4: that Paul Verhoven said explicitly that, yeah, the portrayal of

1341
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,599
Speaker 4: these characters is representative of the way black people are

1342
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:26,799
Speaker 4: treated in America. And so again, I think it's interesting

1343
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:30,640
Speaker 4: that then the spinout effect was actually again to traumatize

1344
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 4: a black actress through a rape scene, right again, kind

1345
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 4: of doing what he said he's trying to highlight. And

1346
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 4: if you want to advocate against right, if you.

1347
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 1: Want to make commentary on that, you can't do the

1348
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 1: exact same thing that you're making commentary on. That's the

1349
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 1: whole that's this whole movie's just I don't even know

1350
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 1: the word ethos no, but like it's also like a

1351
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 1: movie about how women and his bodies are commodified and

1352
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 1: exploit and then every single scene and not to say

1353
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 1: that like nudity is inherently explodedive, but there's so much unnecessary.

1354
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 1: You know, you could argue nudity in this movie and

1355
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 1: it and there's for example, there's full frontal female nudity,

1356
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 1: no nudity really at all for men.

1357
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 3: That's what I was like, I I because this is

1358
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 3: I mean, and this is like a very fraught conversation

1359
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 3: that I feel like that like we've sort of changed

1360
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 3: over the years, and I think I used to view

1361
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 3: sexy movies a little like prudishly perhaps, and it's like

1362
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:45,519
Speaker 3: I'm pro erotic movie, but I I yeah, it's like

1363
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 3: when it's not equal opportunity, it feels very glaring where

1364
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:52,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, why you know, Kyle mcgloughlin, we see but

1365
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:56,400
Speaker 3: torso up, we see we do see his butt.

1366
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:58,800
Speaker 1: But for like a few seconds, and then he goes

1367
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 1: into a swimming pool and butts.

1368
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 3: There's a lot of chances to see his butt because

1369
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 3: you see his button. Sex in the City quite a

1370
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 3: bit as well.

1371
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 1: Oh wow yeah, twin Peaks, twin twin cheeks.

1372
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 5: Oh wow, yeah, twin cheeks.

1373
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:18,679
Speaker 1: I don't think he's see his twin cheeks in Twin Peaks.

1374
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 1: But the reason it feels exploitative in this movie is

1375
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:28,320
Speaker 1: that it's such a heavy focus on female nudity and

1376
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: none whatsoever. And again, you could they would probably like

1377
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 1: the filmmakers would probably argue, well, men's bodies aren't as

1378
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:40,679
Speaker 1: exploited as women. So where So that's actually commentary, that's

1379
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:44,200
Speaker 1: why we're showing so much female nudity. But it just.

1380
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:46,720
Speaker 4: Feels definitely not to make a movie for fourteen year

1381
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 4: old boys to have a to jerk off to after

1382
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:53,800
Speaker 4: their parents have gone to bed. That movie. Surely this

1383
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,880
Speaker 4: is a this is a hard hitting look at the

1384
01:18:56,920 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 4: exploitation of women.

1385
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 3: Right, we only traumatized most of the women in the

1386
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,800
Speaker 3: movie to do it, and what a noble sacrifice like

1387
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 3: lah Lah Right, So Culverhoven is just chaos.

1388
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:11,639
Speaker 1: What I want to make clear is that I have

1389
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 1: no problem with nudity in movies. I as long as

1390
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 1: it's happening on the terms of the actor, and the

1391
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 1: actor is comfortable with it, and it's not gratuitous and exploitative.

1392
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 1: But this movie often feels as though at least some

1393
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:35,760
Speaker 1: of the nudity is gratuitous and exploitative, which again goes

1394
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:41,520
Speaker 1: against what doing the movie says it's trying to Yeah.

1395
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 4: And I think that's what I was trying to say,

1396
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 4: is that Elizabeth Berkeley says she didn't feel exploited and

1397
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 4: she had a great time, which wonderful, and she's like

1398
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 4: she looks super hot. Oh my god, Like how fun

1399
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 4: to like if you're feeling really hot and you're twenty

1400
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:59,559
Speaker 4: one and you've got that body, like if you want

1401
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 4: to show it up, like great, yeah, fun right.

1402
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 1: But while we're talking about bodies, I mean this, there's

1403
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:12,400
Speaker 1: very little body diversity in this absolutely movie. You do

1404
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:18,800
Speaker 1: have one character who is fat in Henrietta. She's one

1405
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:22,639
Speaker 1: of the performers at Cheetah's Comedian, Right. She doesn't do

1406
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 1: the same like strip teas act as the other performers.

1407
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: She does more of a and there is nudity in

1408
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:35,160
Speaker 1: her act, but it's more like comedy vaudeville. Is that

1409
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 1: what vaudeville is? Turns out, I don't know.

1410
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:41,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, but with boobs, with boobs.

1411
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 1: So her body and like I understand that a venue

1412
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 1: like that, a strip club like that, would treat a

1413
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,800
Speaker 1: body like that differently than they would treat the other

1414
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 1: performers who have these like you know, victorious secret model

1415
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:03,280
Speaker 1: type bodies. But again, the movie is not really commenting

1416
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 1: on that very much. I don't know what are your thoughts.

1417
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 3: I also felt, I mean, that poor actor who had

1418
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 3: to play that part, I mean, she did a great

1419
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 3: job with what she's given like it. I don't know

1420
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:20,559
Speaker 3: what is her weirdest line where she's like, you're the

1421
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 3: only one that knows how to what is that line?

1422
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 4: Yeah know me, You're the only one who get my

1423
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 4: tips popping, right.

1424
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 3: That's an iconic moment in cinema. But yeah, the fact that,

1425
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not surprising to me that and I'm

1426
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 3: sure is like reflective of that scene that there's not

1427
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 3: a lot of body diversity. But I don't I think

1428
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 3: that on some topics this movie goes out of its

1429
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 3: way to make a point. It didn't feel like it

1430
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:49,920
Speaker 3: quite got there at all. I think the closest were

1431
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 3: like comments made at the beginning of the movie or

1432
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 3: the beginning of Nomi's career about what she's allowed to

1433
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 3: eat and what she's not allowed to eat. That was

1434
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:02,720
Speaker 3: as close to like any sort of attempt at commentary.

1435
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 3: Is like, not only is there no body diversity, and

1436
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:10,799
Speaker 3: if you are fat or just not a victorious secret model,

1437
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:14,280
Speaker 3: your act will be different, you will be treated differently,

1438
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:18,800
Speaker 3: and you are your body is the joke, But also

1439
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:24,679
Speaker 3: that the victorious secret model dancers are like starving and

1440
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 3: are not allowed to eat normally except for Nomi who

1441
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:34,320
Speaker 3: eats subsists strictly on chips and champagne and cheeseburgers, which

1442
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:37,599
Speaker 3: is another Oh gosh, this is something that it's tricky,

1443
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:40,760
Speaker 3: but like it feels very like Gilmore Girl's syndrome you

1444
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:43,240
Speaker 3: to me, where it's like this girl can eat whatever

1445
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:45,759
Speaker 3: she wants, but she still has a victorious secret body,

1446
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 3: you know, like you do, and it's like you. It

1447
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,599
Speaker 3: feels like a very weird half step. I mean, yes,

1448
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 3: she's twenty one, so maybe, but you know, it just

1449
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 3: feels I don't know.

1450
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 1: There's certainly a media trope where the only women who

1451
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,879
Speaker 1: are allowed to stay or allowed to be seen eating

1452
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 1: something like a hamburger on screen are women who are

1453
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:13,680
Speaker 1: extremely thin, right, because if a woman who is not

1454
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,879
Speaker 1: extremely thin is seen eating a hamburger, that immediately becomes

1455
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: either a joke or a judgment call is being made

1456
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 1: on her choices.

1457
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, it felt like it was something that you

1458
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 3: would think this movie would attempt to make more commentary on.

1459
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,200
Speaker 3: It doesn't. I don't know if I'm like, I don't

1460
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:34,400
Speaker 3: know how to feel about it, because I'm like, well,

1461
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 3: if they'd tried it, they probably wouldn't have gone great,

1462
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 3: But I don't know. I guess I would be interested

1463
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:44,520
Speaker 3: in what the attempt would have been similar.

1464
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 1: Well, again, they.

1465
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 4: Would have really traumatized people. Yeah, a whole other group

1466
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:53,760
Speaker 4: of people. They would have figured it a way to

1467
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 4: traumatize someone else by trying to make a comment on

1468
01:23:57,920 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 4: something else they weren't really equipped to talk about.

1469
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 1: They would have fumbled it the way they've fumbled sex work.

1470
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:08,879
Speaker 1: Which can we get into that, yes, yes, So several

1471
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 1: characters and the movie as a whole seem to have

1472
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 1: an attitude that sex work is not legitimate work. If

1473
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:22,799
Speaker 1: you are a stripper, that's not real dancing, you're wasting

1474
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 1: your talents. So it completely delegitimate, delegitimizes wow words, they're hard.

1475
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:38,200
Speaker 1: Delegitimizes sex work as work, but in different ways with

1476
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:43,560
Speaker 1: different characters, where for example, James, he's like, oh, no, me,

1477
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 1: you want to be a showgirl. Ooh why? Like what

1478
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:50,400
Speaker 1: you're doing at Cheetahs is at least honest, because he

1479
01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 1: says something like people want tits and ass and you

1480
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:56,400
Speaker 1: give them tits and ass. It goddess, they pretend it's

1481
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:59,120
Speaker 1: something else, but you still show them tits and ass.

1482
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:03,720
Speaker 1: So he seems to be again like legitimizing sex work

1483
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 1: more than other people in the movie are. But then

1484
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:10,480
Speaker 1: he'll turn around and say, like, you're wasting your talents

1485
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 1: by being a stripper and giving lap dances and you.

1486
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 4: Know, fucking him without fucking him.

1487
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:19,840
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he's all over the place there. Then you

1488
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:26,080
Speaker 1: have Crystal's attitude, which is like if you work at Cheetahs,

1489
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:28,800
Speaker 1: like if you work at a strip club, that's not

1490
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 1: real dancing, which really upsets and offends, know me. But

1491
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:37,160
Speaker 1: then later Crystal will be like, you're a whore and

1492
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:39,679
Speaker 1: I'm a ho and I don't love the word horror,

1493
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:43,679
Speaker 1: but they say it so often in this movie that unaviidable, right,

1494
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 1: So she's like, I'm a whore, You're a whore. We're

1495
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 1: exactly alike. Just acknowledge what you're doing. And know me

1496
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:56,280
Speaker 1: gets very defensive anytime a conversation like this is happening

1497
01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:00,559
Speaker 1: and she's saying, ah, no, I'm not. Maybe you are,

1498
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 1: I know you are, but what am I kind of thing?

1499
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 3: Yes, very pee wee herman energy and sometimes in her

1500
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:14,640
Speaker 3: physical choices. Yeah, but I do think Crystal, you made

1501
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:17,640
Speaker 3: this point earlier. We're like, in the context of what

1502
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 3: we later learned about me. I think it is like

1503
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 3: an interesting and like ultimately somewhat fumbled attempt for, like, know,

1504
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:31,439
Speaker 3: me processing the stigma of having been a sex worker.

1505
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 3: I don't think that these guys have the juice to

1506
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:39,639
Speaker 3: make any like clear. Uh they don't. They definitely don't

1507
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:41,760
Speaker 3: stick the landing. But I thought it was I don't know.

1508
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:44,559
Speaker 3: I would be curious to know what our listeners think

1509
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:46,519
Speaker 3: as well, but I felt like it was what they

1510
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 3: were trying to do, which only makes sense if you

1511
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:51,720
Speaker 3: watch it back. I do feel like we should have

1512
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:53,880
Speaker 3: known that a little sooner to really appreciate like the

1513
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:57,640
Speaker 3: struggle that she's having, because it's like, I'm sure that,

1514
01:26:57,680 --> 01:26:59,679
Speaker 3: I mean, everyone around her is telling her that sex

1515
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:04,200
Speaker 3: work not legitimate work, which is, you know, certainly not

1516
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 3: an unpopular take in the nineties. She has been a

1517
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:11,439
Speaker 3: sex worker in the past, and it seems like has

1518
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 3: you know, absorbed a lot of the stigma that comes

1519
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:18,800
Speaker 3: with that and doesn't want It's It's interesting because it's

1520
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 3: like she does, I mean, she enjoys being a strippers,

1521
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 3: and she like she likes it, and she's defensive of

1522
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:28,400
Speaker 3: the fact that she likes it, and I don't know

1523
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:33,120
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting theoretically to watch a character of

1524
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 3: this era like struggle with stigma and like say, no,

1525
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 3: I'm not like I'm doing something legitimate, and like what

1526
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 3: does legitimate mean? What has she been told in the

1527
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:46,519
Speaker 3: past is and isn't legitimate? And that's an interesting journey

1528
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 3: to take. It's just like this movie is not is

1529
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:51,599
Speaker 3: ill equipped to take you on that journey.

1530
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 4: But I think I think the movie is trying to

1531
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:59,479
Speaker 4: say that essentially, there isn't anything legitimate within the American dream. Yeah,

1532
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 4: and if you're going to participate in that as a concept,

1533
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,240
Speaker 4: you are selling out and you are selling yourself to

1534
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:08,960
Speaker 4: one degree or another. And I do kind of like

1535
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 4: that because and it's often a foreign filmmaker who's gonna

1536
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 4: make that point, who can come into America and be like, wow,

1537
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 4: this is a really weird like concept you all have

1538
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 4: that there's this like you can somehow attain all of

1539
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:24,320
Speaker 4: the success without it costing you something. And I like

1540
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:27,360
Speaker 4: that point of view. I think it's I think it's interesting,

1541
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 4: but I don't think it particularly Yeah, like you say,

1542
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 4: Nails the Landing, where it's like you're all selling out

1543
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:38,240
Speaker 4: and that is sometimes okay or not okay or whatever.

1544
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:42,040
Speaker 4: Like sex work can be good, it's unclear what it

1545
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:45,479
Speaker 4: actually thinks about that. It's point of view is you're

1546
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 4: all selling out and right, you should be honest with

1547
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 4: yourself about that, which.

1548
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:53,040
Speaker 3: I feel like is so much of Paul Verhoven's work

1549
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:57,040
Speaker 3: for me, where it's like he definitely has he's always

1550
01:28:57,080 --> 01:29:01,599
Speaker 3: onto something, but I feel like he never, at least

1551
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 3: for me, Like I haven't seen all this movies. I

1552
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:07,799
Speaker 3: still haven't seen Robotcop. My boyfriend saw a RoboCop recently

1553
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,600
Speaker 3: and he was like, wow, he really I guess he

1554
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,200
Speaker 3: maybe stuck the landing on that one. But in general,

1555
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:16,040
Speaker 3: I feel like he definitely is always onto something. He's

1556
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:21,599
Speaker 3: nibbling at something, but never quite sticks the landing in

1557
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,040
Speaker 3: a way that's always interesting to watch.

1558
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 4: That's right.

1559
01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 1: The execution might not be quite there, but the attempt

1560
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 1: is watchable.

1561
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 3: He does, he gives it one hundred percent.

1562
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:43,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. But the other thing is like, so often sex

1563
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 1: work is framed as something that people are trying to,

1564
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:52,559
Speaker 1: like desperately escape from, or are only engaging in out

1565
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:56,519
Speaker 1: of desperation, And while that might be true for some

1566
01:29:56,600 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 1: sex workers, it's rarely presented as something that is happening

1567
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:05,720
Speaker 1: on the person's terms. It's rarely presented as something that

1568
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:09,400
Speaker 1: the character or you know, the person is proud of.

1569
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:12,599
Speaker 1: And again, this movie kind of does a little bit

1570
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 1: of both, where Nomi gets very defensive when Crystal insults

1571
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 1: her and says like, if you're working at Cheetahs, that's

1572
01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 1: not real dancing, and you know, Nomi says, you don't

1573
01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 1: know shit. But she also anytime someone suggests that Gnomi

1574
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:37,679
Speaker 1: is a whore, she's like, yeah, I'm not. And like, again,

1575
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 1: there's this trauma that she's probably working through. There's you know,

1576
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:43,559
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of stuff that the movie doesn't quite

1577
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 1: know how to handle. So it ultimately it comes down

1578
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:49,720
Speaker 1: on the side to me at least, and you know,

1579
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:54,599
Speaker 1: other people might have different interpretations. But where the movie lands,

1580
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:59,000
Speaker 1: it feels like sex work is something that you might

1581
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 1: do on the path of like something more legitimate, and

1582
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:09,160
Speaker 1: it's treating sex work as though it's not legitimate work

1583
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:12,040
Speaker 1: and it's something that you might do as like a

1584
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:15,080
Speaker 1: stepping stone to get to the stardom that you want

1585
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:16,360
Speaker 1: to get to by doing.

1586
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,679
Speaker 4: But I would say that Crystal's character also knows that

1587
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:23,760
Speaker 4: she's realistic she's saying, I've chosen sex work, right, but

1588
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 4: she's presented as a bit of a cautionary tale in

1589
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:29,720
Speaker 4: her own way. You don't necessarily want to end up

1590
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:33,679
Speaker 4: like her because she chose to sell out. She chose

1591
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:36,679
Speaker 4: to sell herself. She made that deal with the devil,

1592
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 4: and look where it's ended her up. She's bitter and alone.

1593
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:45,679
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's so I feel like at least Crystal's character,

1594
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:49,000
Speaker 3: at least for me, was more open to interpretation than

1595
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:52,160
Speaker 3: that stock character usually is.

1596
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:53,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it is.

1597
01:31:53,520 --> 01:31:58,160
Speaker 3: I mean, it is interesting watching how thoroughly jaded most

1598
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:00,720
Speaker 3: of the women in this story are, except for no MEI,

1599
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 3: who is just like I don't know who knows what's

1600
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:05,519
Speaker 3: going on with me a lot of the time. But

1601
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,960
Speaker 3: there there does seem to be this like understanding that

1602
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:11,280
Speaker 3: most people are very frank about to the point where

1603
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 3: I mean, it's tragic in itself. The Crystal is like,

1604
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 3: it makes sense that you would push me down the stairs.

1605
01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:19,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, Crystal, I find you to be a confident character.

1606
01:32:19,080 --> 01:32:23,479
Speaker 3: Why would you say that? But but like that or

1607
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:26,840
Speaker 3: a line that stuck with me was that I thought

1608
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:31,120
Speaker 3: was like interesting that they added in was the costume

1609
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 3: designer and how she's presented, and she's like, well, you know,

1610
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:37,360
Speaker 3: like I it's like implied she used to be a

1611
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:39,439
Speaker 3: show girl but then she like quote unquote past her

1612
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 3: prime and she had to have a plan and a

1613
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 3: man in place.

1614
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:46,719
Speaker 1: And oh the choreographer, Yes, Oh the character is gay

1615
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 1: who's okay, which is incredible, but like she she like,

1616
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:54,360
Speaker 1: it's also implied that it's like you're very naive if

1617
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:56,599
Speaker 1: you don't have an exit plan, because you will be

1618
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 1: chewed up and spit out.

1619
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 3: And yeah, like you don't want to be Crystal. You

1620
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:02,960
Speaker 3: want to have a plan and a man of what

1621
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:08,480
Speaker 3: you're going to do, like when you're inevitably discarded, and

1622
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:10,840
Speaker 3: the way it's like the way the game presents that

1623
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:16,320
Speaker 3: very frankly I thought was an interesting choice. Again, it's

1624
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:19,880
Speaker 3: like hard to tell exactly how the movie feels about it,

1625
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:22,439
Speaker 3: but I think it's just presented as like, if you

1626
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:27,240
Speaker 3: want to survive in this very patriarchal, fucked up space,

1627
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 3: you have to be protecting yourself years in advance. It's like,

1628
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:34,439
Speaker 3: I don't know, I've been talking about this a lot

1629
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 3: lately on the tour I've been on, but like the

1630
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 3: idea that you know, if you're marginalized in any way

1631
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:44,760
Speaker 3: really that you need to be exceptional in order to

1632
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:48,519
Speaker 3: deserve to survive, And like that whole concept is so

1633
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 3: normalized where it's like, for for the most part, like

1634
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:54,680
Speaker 3: you know, like the Kyle maclochins of the world are

1635
01:33:54,720 --> 01:33:56,640
Speaker 3: always going to be fine and they don't need to

1636
01:33:56,680 --> 01:34:01,200
Speaker 3: be really exceptional to have power and holder and maintain it.

1637
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:05,200
Speaker 3: But if you are, I mean, in this case, mostly

1638
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:08,680
Speaker 3: if you are a woman, you need to be constantly

1639
01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:12,679
Speaker 3: like gold Star on patrol or something horrible might happen

1640
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:15,120
Speaker 3: to you and it will be implied by the world

1641
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:17,120
Speaker 3: that you brought it on yourself somehow.

1642
01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:19,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and your only other option, I guess, is to

1643
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:22,000
Speaker 4: do what Nomi does at the end, which is just

1644
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:23,040
Speaker 4: opt out entirely.

1645
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then go to La I feel like the

1646
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:29,519
Speaker 1: implication is like, well, I conquered Vegas, so now it's

1647
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:31,160
Speaker 1: time to go to Hollywood.

1648
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 4: Do you think so?

1649
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:33,519
Speaker 3: I didn't feel that way.

1650
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:36,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's maybe I'm just reading between the lines.

1651
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 1: But there's a sign that says like Los Angeles two

1652
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 1: hundred and forty miles.

1653
01:34:40,720 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think if there had been a sequel, which

1654
01:34:43,320 --> 01:34:46,320
Speaker 4: they obviously like put that sign there as like a potential,

1655
01:34:46,439 --> 01:34:49,240
Speaker 4: like we could revisit this idea, and then Nomi would

1656
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 4: go do La in the exact same way that she'd

1657
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,639
Speaker 4: done Vegas. For sure. But I think that line that

1658
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:59,200
Speaker 4: they say at the end, which is she gets back

1659
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:01,839
Speaker 4: in the truck and he says to her, did you gamble?

1660
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:04,160
Speaker 4: And she says yes, and he says what did you win?

1661
01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:09,280
Speaker 4: And she says, n me, yeah, And that's her saying

1662
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:12,240
Speaker 4: like I've decided that, you know, I can't I can't

1663
01:35:12,280 --> 01:35:16,439
Speaker 4: be bought or sold. I'm you know, I had everything

1664
01:35:16,439 --> 01:35:18,559
Speaker 4: offered to me and I'm walking away from it because

1665
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:19,720
Speaker 4: the cost was too high.

1666
01:35:20,479 --> 01:35:23,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I thought I thought it was very I mean,

1667
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:26,200
Speaker 3: and maybe she does go to La, and like that's

1668
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:29,000
Speaker 3: a whole that feels very like pul Verhoviny of like

1669
01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:33,600
Speaker 3: the Big At least it felt like in some ways.

1670
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:35,519
Speaker 3: I don't know, Maybe I just feel this way about

1671
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:39,040
Speaker 3: Vegas in general, where it's like, yes, the entertainment industry

1672
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:43,559
Speaker 3: in Vegas is extremely seed and exploitative, but there is

1673
01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:45,320
Speaker 3: kind of this element of it where it's like, but

1674
01:35:45,439 --> 01:35:48,160
Speaker 3: it knows what it is and it's not pretending to

1675
01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:51,760
Speaker 3: be like, I think that that's why, like the LA

1676
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:56,600
Speaker 3: industry is so frustrating sometimes, because it's like everyone is

1677
01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:58,840
Speaker 3: pretending that we're not doing the thing that we're doing.

1678
01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 3: But in Vegas they're like, no, we're doing obviously it's

1679
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:04,040
Speaker 3: happening to you right now and I don't care. And

1680
01:36:04,120 --> 01:36:08,240
Speaker 3: you're like, well, at least I know here they're like, no,

1681
01:36:08,320 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 3: nothing is happening, like ignore the man behind the curtain

1682
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:15,080
Speaker 3: fucking you over, like smile better or I don't know

1683
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 3: what am I saying.

1684
01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:18,160
Speaker 4: It must be weird not having it, but anybody come

1685
01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:19,479
Speaker 4: on you, Oh.

1686
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:23,880
Speaker 3: My god, my god. And that character also, I mean,

1687
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:26,040
Speaker 3: we don't even have time like that guy sucks oh

1688
01:36:26,280 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 3: so much. But that line, I mean, there's no denying

1689
01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:33,960
Speaker 3: that line. Yeah, iconic.

1690
01:36:34,080 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 1: Could we talk about the queer overtones, Yes, between I

1691
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:46,719
Speaker 1: mean more obviously between know Me and Crystal, but also

1692
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:50,880
Speaker 1: I was reading between Know Me and Molly as well

1693
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:58,679
Speaker 1: possibly others thoughts. I guess I'm just like, is this

1694
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:01,320
Speaker 1: I've I feel like you could make the argument that

1695
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:03,600
Speaker 1: it's queer baiting. I think that you could make the

1696
01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:09,479
Speaker 1: argument that these are queer characters who are into each other,

1697
01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:15,280
Speaker 1: but you only ever see heterosex happening on screen.

1698
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:18,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very confusing. I don't know what is it.

1699
01:37:19,800 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 4: I think what we have here is a predatory bisexual

1700
01:37:23,920 --> 01:37:28,680
Speaker 4: woman and a naive young straight woman. That's what I

1701
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:29,719
Speaker 4: get from these.

1702
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:33,880
Speaker 3: Characters, which is also Paul Verhoven Cannon. I mean that's like, yeah,

1703
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:35,160
Speaker 3: basic instinct all.

1704
01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:40,080
Speaker 4: Over it, exactly, And I don't think that's necessarily great. No,

1705
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:43,519
Speaker 4: but it's been done worse. It's been done worse by

1706
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:44,800
Speaker 4: Paul Verhoven.

1707
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:49,080
Speaker 3: So yes, in a much better received movie. Right, it's

1708
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:52,680
Speaker 3: very Yeah, he definitely has a playbook and refuses to

1709
01:37:52,760 --> 01:37:56,559
Speaker 3: learn a lesson, which is we love that for him? Yeah,

1710
01:37:56,560 --> 01:37:59,800
Speaker 3: I guess it's really I don't know it is because

1711
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 3: I do think that, like the other predatory bisexual woman

1712
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:10,120
Speaker 3: is on display here. And I also like the kiss,

1713
01:38:10,320 --> 01:38:15,080
Speaker 3: so it's Heart's girl in that way. It's a great kiss,

1714
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:18,080
Speaker 3: and I do it does seem like this movie is

1715
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:23,040
Speaker 3: trying to do the like every like quote unquote, everything

1716
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:25,479
Speaker 3: that's scandalous in nineteen ninety five has to happen in

1717
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:29,160
Speaker 3: this movie, and so them saving like a really sexy

1718
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:31,000
Speaker 3: kiss between women for the very end. I'm like, yeah,

1719
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:32,519
Speaker 3: I guess that's the last thing on the list. You

1720
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:36,479
Speaker 3: already had a brutal, horrific, exploitative rape scene, a ton

1721
01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:40,240
Speaker 3: of nudity, a ton of sex, and it's like now

1722
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 3: the cherry on top a gay kiss, and it's like, yep,

1723
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:47,760
Speaker 3: that's everything that people would have yelled at you for,

1724
01:38:48,520 --> 01:38:52,759
Speaker 3: but without like any I mean, it's not obviously anywhere

1725
01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:55,360
Speaker 3: near as bad as the way that the rape scene

1726
01:38:55,439 --> 01:38:57,880
Speaker 3: is handled, but just like it just seems like they're

1727
01:38:58,200 --> 01:39:01,599
Speaker 3: checking boxes of like scanned list thing and not thinking

1728
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:05,200
Speaker 3: through anything, which at this point in the episode, could

1729
01:39:05,200 --> 01:39:05,879
Speaker 3: you be shocked?

1730
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:13,040
Speaker 4: Basically it doesn't seem like any bisexual person I know, right, same,

1731
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:17,920
Speaker 4: it's very clearly a bisexual woman written by a straight man. Yeah, yeah,

1732
01:39:17,960 --> 01:39:22,760
Speaker 4: so it's not great representation what but I'm not as

1733
01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:25,200
Speaker 4: a queer person, I'm also not offended by it. I

1734
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:27,799
Speaker 4: guess that's where I land on queer issues in this movie.

1735
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:31,080
Speaker 4: Same with the dancer who asks for a punch anally

1736
01:39:31,720 --> 01:39:34,160
Speaker 4: like okay, yeah, that.

1737
01:39:34,439 --> 01:39:38,360
Speaker 1: Honestly maybe my favorite exchange of dialogue in the movie.

1738
01:39:38,479 --> 01:39:39,679
Speaker 4: There's too many good lines.

1739
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:43,080
Speaker 1: Someone's like, you want a knuckle sandwich and he's like, yeah,

1740
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:44,679
Speaker 1: can I have mine anally.

1741
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:50,080
Speaker 4: I literally paused the movie I was watching with my husband.

1742
01:39:50,080 --> 01:39:51,920
Speaker 4: I'm like, do we feel okay about this? And we

1743
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 4: were like, yeah, yeah, we're fine.

1744
01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:58,760
Speaker 3: It is so campy that you're just like, sure, you're

1745
01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:01,880
Speaker 3: just really watching a straight and feel his way around

1746
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:06,120
Speaker 3: in the dark entirely. He's like, oh, what a gay

1747
01:40:06,160 --> 01:40:08,280
Speaker 3: man replied to this, I know.

1748
01:40:08,960 --> 01:40:11,639
Speaker 1: Oh wait, no, real, Okay. Here's my actual favorite line

1749
01:40:11,640 --> 01:40:16,120
Speaker 1: of the movie. Zach aka Kayle MacLaughlin is talking about

1750
01:40:16,120 --> 01:40:20,080
Speaker 1: how he's like, I got an MBA for this, and

1751
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 1: Noomi's like, what's an MBA? And he responds with, an

1752
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:28,560
Speaker 1: MBA is a degree you pick up in college. That's

1753
01:40:28,840 --> 01:40:32,000
Speaker 1: not quite if we're like college being like a four

1754
01:40:32,080 --> 01:40:35,599
Speaker 1: year undergrad thing. NBA is a master's I should know.

1755
01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:38,920
Speaker 1: I have a master's degree in screenwriting. I would never

1756
01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:43,120
Speaker 1: mention it. But he's acting like it's something like you

1757
01:40:43,160 --> 01:40:45,479
Speaker 1: go to undergrad and you get an MBA. No, and

1758
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 1: then he says and it's mostly worthless in the real world. Also, No,

1759
01:40:51,320 --> 01:40:54,720
Speaker 1: he's what he means is a master's degree in screenwriting.

1760
01:40:55,479 --> 01:40:57,479
Speaker 1: That's the thing that's worthless in the real world.

1761
01:40:57,640 --> 01:41:00,920
Speaker 3: That's I mean, I thought I thought that was like

1762
01:41:01,280 --> 01:41:03,960
Speaker 3: somewhat intentional, but I love because they're just like because

1763
01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 3: he's like sucks like he says, and he's also being

1764
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:12,400
Speaker 3: especially after the verses debacle, he's also being just like

1765
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:15,640
Speaker 3: condescending to her. He's like, Ah, why bother explaining it

1766
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:17,880
Speaker 3: to you? You wouldn't get it. I don't think you're smart.

1767
01:41:17,680 --> 01:41:23,000
Speaker 4: Right, Absolutely, if we're doing favorite lines, please mine is

1768
01:41:23,240 --> 01:41:27,639
Speaker 4: when Henrietta says she says to this sleazy guy about

1769
01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:30,320
Speaker 4: know me that she looks better than a ten inch dick.

1770
01:41:30,479 --> 01:41:30,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1771
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 4: Oh, and for all of the problems with this movie,

1772
01:41:34,880 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 4: the fact that we got this line really really does

1773
01:41:37,240 --> 01:41:39,040
Speaker 4: go a long way to make me feel a lot

1774
01:41:39,080 --> 01:41:39,680
Speaker 4: better about it.

1775
01:41:40,120 --> 01:41:43,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, very mine. I'm going with the classic must

1776
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:46,320
Speaker 3: be weird not having anybody come on you, I mean, yeah,

1777
01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:49,879
Speaker 3: just perfectly delivered. And then the cut to Elizabeth Berkeley's

1778
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:54,080
Speaker 3: reaction is what it's so confusing, but.

1779
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:57,719
Speaker 4: Also the sentiment mental music while he says it, it's delivered.

1780
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:04,120
Speaker 3: So since it's that poor actor where I'm just like

1781
01:42:04,240 --> 01:42:06,200
Speaker 3: they could he couldn't have known how they were going

1782
01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:12,960
Speaker 3: to edit that feel so aggressive. Loved it, loved it,

1783
01:42:13,200 --> 01:42:15,880
Speaker 3: loved it. Yeah, this I mean, this is just like,

1784
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:19,200
Speaker 3: it's it's so interesting talking about camp movies on this show,

1785
01:42:19,240 --> 01:42:21,479
Speaker 3: because it's like, in some ways our show is simply

1786
01:42:21,560 --> 01:42:25,160
Speaker 3: not built for it. But I feel like over the

1787
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 3: years we've we've developed a way to talk about camp movies. Yeah,

1788
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:32,479
Speaker 3: I don't, I don't know. I mean, is there anything

1789
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:34,280
Speaker 3: else that y'all wanted to touch on?

1790
01:42:34,680 --> 01:42:38,759
Speaker 1: I'll just share a couple fun facts. These are pulled

1791
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:44,160
Speaker 1: from scholarly journal Wikipedia. For the most part, I hope

1792
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:46,800
Speaker 1: I think they're still true, although these might be a

1793
01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:49,160
Speaker 1: bit outdated. But as far as I know, this is

1794
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:53,960
Speaker 1: the highest grossing NC seventeen production of all time. So

1795
01:42:54,040 --> 01:42:57,160
Speaker 1: even though it was a flop at the box office

1796
01:42:57,200 --> 01:43:00,840
Speaker 1: because it got a wide theatrical release, its budget was

1797
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:04,680
Speaker 1: also forty five million dollars and it only ended up

1798
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 1: grossing I think like thirty seven thirty eight worldwide. But

1799
01:43:10,479 --> 01:43:13,639
Speaker 1: even though it was a flop because of the size

1800
01:43:13,640 --> 01:43:18,080
Speaker 1: of its budget theatrically, it was still a high grossing

1801
01:43:18,439 --> 01:43:23,200
Speaker 1: NC seventeen movie. It went on to gross over one

1802
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:30,280
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar WARS in home video sales, and wonder

1803
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:35,559
Speaker 1: why that could be?

1804
01:43:35,640 --> 01:43:38,719
Speaker 3: People wanted to watch this movie privately shocking.

1805
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:46,960
Speaker 1: It was nominated for thirteen Golden Raspberry Awards AK thirteen Razzies.

1806
01:43:48,680 --> 01:43:50,960
Speaker 3: I was like, wow, what so formal of you?

1807
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:57,080
Speaker 1: Yes, which was a record at the time and might

1808
01:43:57,200 --> 01:44:00,000
Speaker 1: still be the record number of nominations.

1809
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:02,960
Speaker 4: I think it's been tied by that Lindsay Lohan movie

1810
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:05,280
Speaker 4: where she also plays a stripper.

1811
01:44:05,680 --> 01:44:09,320
Speaker 1: Right, are you referring to I Know Who Killed.

1812
01:44:09,200 --> 01:44:11,280
Speaker 4: That movie is really really.

1813
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:15,960
Speaker 1: Fab I haven't seen it come back, okay in that movie.

1814
01:44:16,479 --> 01:44:21,280
Speaker 1: So Showgirls got thirteen nominations and won seven of the awards,

1815
01:44:21,320 --> 01:44:24,519
Speaker 1: which at the time was a record. It was beaten

1816
01:44:24,600 --> 01:44:28,080
Speaker 1: by I Know Who Killed Me, which won eight, and

1817
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:31,600
Speaker 1: then History Jack and Jill from twenty twelve, which I

1818
01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:34,120
Speaker 1: think is an Adam Sandler movie.

1819
01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:36,240
Speaker 3: Yes, that movie is genuinely horrible.

1820
01:44:36,360 --> 01:44:37,640
Speaker 1: It won ten Razzies.

1821
01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:38,360
Speaker 3: Wow.

1822
01:44:39,240 --> 01:44:43,760
Speaker 1: Yeah wow. So those are just my fun facts.

1823
01:44:44,760 --> 01:44:49,000
Speaker 3: Does this movie past the Bechdel test, Well, folks, it does.

1824
01:44:49,160 --> 01:44:52,040
Speaker 1: It does passes a lot. They're talking about chips, they're

1825
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:56,160
Speaker 1: talking about nail polish, dog food, dog food food.

1826
01:44:56,000 --> 01:45:02,559
Speaker 3: The three the four things talk about. Oh, it is

1827
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:06,720
Speaker 3: just such a treat watching this this writer try to

1828
01:45:07,080 --> 01:45:10,280
Speaker 3: it's so weird like and also that he was. I mean,

1829
01:45:10,360 --> 01:45:14,439
Speaker 3: it talk about the way that straight men are permitted

1830
01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:19,080
Speaker 3: to flop around for their entire careers. The fact that,

1831
01:45:19,200 --> 01:45:21,639
Speaker 3: like he was like one of the most high highest

1832
01:45:21,680 --> 01:45:24,960
Speaker 3: paid writers in Hollywood at the time. Yeah, God, this

1833
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:28,760
Speaker 3: always infuriates me. It's like learning about why Wes Anderson's

1834
01:45:28,800 --> 01:45:30,720
Speaker 3: career took off, where he just sort of came in

1835
01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:32,680
Speaker 3: and he was like, I have this idea, what do

1836
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:35,519
Speaker 3: you think And they're like, here's five million dollars, best

1837
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:39,840
Speaker 3: of luck, and you're like, wow, absolutely kill me. But

1838
01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:42,880
Speaker 3: the same deal. I mean, at this point, Joe Esther

1839
01:45:43,000 --> 01:45:45,679
Speaker 3: has had like had hits under his belt. It makes

1840
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:48,640
Speaker 3: sense that he was able to sell a movie, but

1841
01:45:49,240 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 3: the fact that he like wrote this down on a

1842
01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:54,720
Speaker 3: napkin where he's like women Vegas and they're like, we'll

1843
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:57,240
Speaker 3: give you two million dollars to figure it out, and

1844
01:45:57,280 --> 01:46:05,080
Speaker 3: you're like, are you joking? Like unbelievable TSK. But anyway,

1845
01:46:05,160 --> 01:46:08,439
Speaker 3: I mean, it's what I can only be so mad

1846
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:11,719
Speaker 3: because I'm happy that this movie exists. He also wrote

1847
01:46:11,840 --> 01:46:17,439
Speaker 3: Flash Dance, and he also wrote Basic Instinct, and his

1848
01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:21,280
Speaker 3: career did actually take a hit for having written this movie.

1849
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:25,280
Speaker 3: So even men suffered consequences. This movie was considered such

1850
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:29,360
Speaker 3: a failure if you can imagine whoops. Oh but no,

1851
01:46:29,479 --> 01:46:31,439
Speaker 3: but this was he was in his prime because he

1852
01:46:32,120 --> 01:46:36,360
Speaker 3: got three million dollars to write Basic Instinct. Then he

1853
01:46:36,439 --> 01:46:39,200
Speaker 3: got two million dollars for writing down a vague idea

1854
01:46:39,240 --> 01:46:41,719
Speaker 3: that sounded sort of like show Girls on a napkin

1855
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 3: in Hawaii. Yes, and then they were like, figure it out.

1856
01:46:45,400 --> 01:46:48,320
Speaker 3: And then the movie he made he wrote after this

1857
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:53,640
Speaker 3: was called Jade, another erotic thriller. I mean, that's his wheelhouse,

1858
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:56,960
Speaker 3: which is bizarre for someone who seems to struggle with

1859
01:46:57,080 --> 01:47:02,960
Speaker 3: basic mechanics of sex whatever. For Jade, he is paid

1860
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:06,719
Speaker 3: one point five million dollars for a two page outline. Wow,

1861
01:47:07,000 --> 01:47:09,840
Speaker 3: and then in ninety seven they make him work for it.

1862
01:47:09,880 --> 01:47:12,160
Speaker 3: He's paid two point five million dollars for a four

1863
01:47:12,200 --> 01:47:12,959
Speaker 3: page outline.

1864
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:17,920
Speaker 4: So but it's like, oh wow, wow, Wow, imagine people

1865
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:20,880
Speaker 4: having that much faith in you. I really cannot relate.

1866
01:47:21,080 --> 01:47:24,799
Speaker 3: No, I like, I cannot can't wrap my head around

1867
01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:27,800
Speaker 3: it probably feels great, And he's like, why would you

1868
01:47:27,880 --> 01:47:31,439
Speaker 3: learn how sex works if you were just like paid

1869
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 3: two point five million dollars to be like, I'm flailing.

1870
01:47:34,479 --> 01:47:36,599
Speaker 4: Around, dangerous hot lady.

1871
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:45,719
Speaker 6: Yes, wow, Wellpet, it really does onto our nipple scale

1872
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:49,759
Speaker 6: where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based

1873
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:54,720
Speaker 6: on examining the film through an intersectional feminist lens, and

1874
01:47:55,000 --> 01:47:55,840
Speaker 6: I would.

1875
01:47:55,560 --> 01:48:05,080
Speaker 1: Say based on the movies really murky framing of sex

1876
01:48:05,160 --> 01:48:09,839
Speaker 1: work based on the way it treats characters of color,

1877
01:48:10,920 --> 01:48:14,240
Speaker 1: which I wanted to include. Just one last quote from

1878
01:48:15,080 --> 01:48:19,920
Speaker 1: Gina Rivera, who has spoken about her role being cast

1879
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:25,839
Speaker 1: as the black best friend trope character. Yeah, she said, quote,

1880
01:48:25,880 --> 01:48:29,400
Speaker 1: it's the Hattie McDaniel role where you take care of

1881
01:48:29,439 --> 01:48:31,800
Speaker 1: the needs of the white woman and you don't have

1882
01:48:31,840 --> 01:48:34,759
Speaker 1: a storyline of your own. It was a difficult decision

1883
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:37,120
Speaker 1: for me, but it was also one of the first

1884
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:39,680
Speaker 1: movies I was ever going to do. A lot of

1885
01:48:39,720 --> 01:48:42,519
Speaker 1: black girls have to do that job, and I had

1886
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:48,479
Speaker 1: to start somewhere, which is just like so common for

1887
01:48:48,880 --> 01:48:51,400
Speaker 1: black actors to have to take roles like this because

1888
01:48:51,439 --> 01:48:55,599
Speaker 1: it's all that's available, It's all that anyone cares to write,

1889
01:48:55,720 --> 01:48:59,720
Speaker 1: especially in an era where Hollywood and this is still

1890
01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:03,280
Speaker 1: a very true, but like the industry is run by

1891
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:07,280
Speaker 1: white people who don't care to tell the stories of

1892
01:49:07,479 --> 01:49:13,080
Speaker 1: people of color, and things are slowly changing and improving,

1893
01:49:13,479 --> 01:49:16,960
Speaker 1: But in the mid nineties especially, like it was just

1894
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:21,479
Speaker 1: so bleak and the opportunities and roles available to black

1895
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:26,559
Speaker 1: actors were so frequently this type of.

1896
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:28,800
Speaker 3: Role where you're the.

1897
01:49:28,080 --> 01:49:32,600
Speaker 1: Best friend of the lead, you're catering to their storyline,

1898
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:37,479
Speaker 1: you are kind of disappeared from the story for large swaths,

1899
01:49:38,040 --> 01:49:41,760
Speaker 1: you're assaulted. It's just all these horrible things that tend

1900
01:49:41,760 --> 01:49:45,200
Speaker 1: to happen to characters like this and that.

1901
01:49:45,400 --> 01:49:49,280
Speaker 3: On top of that, she was brutalized at length in

1902
01:49:49,320 --> 01:49:52,280
Speaker 3: the movie and had lasting I mean, and the effects

1903
01:49:52,320 --> 01:49:55,439
Speaker 3: that that had, Like it's just yeah, which kind of like,

1904
01:49:56,040 --> 01:49:58,760
Speaker 3: I mean, for me, it's like if Paul Verhoven was

1905
01:49:58,800 --> 01:50:03,479
Speaker 3: attempting to comment on race at all, like he failed.

1906
01:50:03,560 --> 01:50:07,160
Speaker 3: If that is how his leading black actor feels about

1907
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:09,600
Speaker 3: her experience like working on this movie.

1908
01:50:09,840 --> 01:50:12,920
Speaker 4: Right, Also, even in the world of the movie, poor Mollie,

1909
01:50:13,240 --> 01:50:15,679
Speaker 4: her friend's just left town. She's still in the hospital.

1910
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:18,519
Speaker 4: She's fucking unconscious, right, I.

1911
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:21,840
Speaker 1: Don't even think she's fully conscious when Gnomi visits her

1912
01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:22,600
Speaker 1: in the hospital.

1913
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 4: No, exactly, she's just gonna wake up and be like,

1914
01:50:25,120 --> 01:50:27,479
Speaker 4: what happened? Yeah, it's awful.

1915
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:28,920
Speaker 1: I guess my friend abandoned me.

1916
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:31,479
Speaker 3: I didn't even think of that. Yeah, then she just leaves.

1917
01:50:31,880 --> 01:50:33,760
Speaker 4: She beat up that guy for me. I guess, so

1918
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:36,120
Speaker 4: I'm fine.

1919
01:50:35,320 --> 01:50:40,360
Speaker 1: Right, Like It's just so, there's a lot of things

1920
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:43,639
Speaker 1: the movie isn't handling well, as we've discussed. I think

1921
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:48,160
Speaker 1: it does do a better job than most movies do

1922
01:50:48,240 --> 01:50:53,920
Speaker 1: when they're when examining the reasons why women might be

1923
01:50:54,040 --> 01:50:58,560
Speaker 1: in conflict, and it contextualizes it and provides this commentary

1924
01:50:58,640 --> 01:51:05,120
Speaker 1: on the often exploitative nature of the entertainment industry. The

1925
01:51:05,160 --> 01:51:08,679
Speaker 1: movie has a still a pretty narrow scope of that,

1926
01:51:08,800 --> 01:51:11,960
Speaker 1: and it could dig a little bit deeper. But it

1927
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:13,479
Speaker 1: is kind of the one thing that I think the

1928
01:51:13,520 --> 01:51:18,800
Speaker 1: movie is doing more successfully as far as like commentary goes,

1929
01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:25,120
Speaker 1: would I say that it's brilliant satire, not necessarily for

1930
01:51:25,160 --> 01:51:29,160
Speaker 1: me at least. I think it's gonna be like one

1931
01:51:29,200 --> 01:51:32,720
Speaker 1: and a half or two nipples, because I do like

1932
01:51:32,800 --> 01:51:36,360
Speaker 1: no me, and I do like that she's very she

1933
01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:39,920
Speaker 1: doesn't take shit from anyone. She stands up for herself constantly.

1934
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:44,200
Speaker 1: I like to see this in a female character. But

1935
01:51:45,120 --> 01:51:46,360
Speaker 1: the movie's a.

1936
01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:50,360
Speaker 3: Mess, so a mess, A glorious mess.

1937
01:51:50,080 --> 01:51:55,200
Speaker 1: A glorious mess. Two nipples. I will give one to

1938
01:51:55,479 --> 01:52:00,400
Speaker 1: no me's fingernails, and I'll give I thought she's good,

1939
01:52:01,200 --> 01:52:06,400
Speaker 1: the other to her constant thrashing.

1940
01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:09,240
Speaker 3: About yes, I'll meet you at two. I think that

1941
01:52:09,680 --> 01:52:14,519
Speaker 3: there is a series of failures to launch commentary in

1942
01:52:14,720 --> 01:52:18,120
Speaker 3: this movie. There are definitely attempts. I want to like

1943
01:52:18,280 --> 01:52:22,559
Speaker 3: honor those attempts. And also, I mean, particularly the rape

1944
01:52:22,560 --> 01:52:25,160
Speaker 3: scene and the treatment of Molly's character in particular just

1945
01:52:25,439 --> 01:52:30,759
Speaker 3: is so glaringly wrong, and like even in nineteen ninety

1946
01:52:30,800 --> 01:52:35,680
Speaker 3: five was glaringly wrong. I think it's so fascinating what

1947
01:52:35,720 --> 01:52:39,600
Speaker 3: you're saying, Crystal about how you need to like circumnavigate

1948
01:52:39,640 --> 01:52:43,120
Speaker 3: that scene and that plot point in order to feel

1949
01:52:43,120 --> 01:52:45,880
Speaker 3: like you are celebrating this movie in a way that

1950
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:49,840
Speaker 3: feels okay. And so the presence of that is just like, well,

1951
01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:53,240
Speaker 3: that's an indefensible thing, and especially that it had such

1952
01:52:53,320 --> 01:52:56,240
Speaker 3: a real life impact, it's so bizarre. I mean, I

1953
01:52:56,240 --> 01:52:58,680
Speaker 3: guess I'm also taking into account the history of the

1954
01:52:58,680 --> 01:53:01,200
Speaker 3: movie where it's like they're trying to do the thing,

1955
01:53:01,320 --> 01:53:04,360
Speaker 3: but then they're also like doing the thing that they

1956
01:53:04,439 --> 01:53:07,840
Speaker 3: claim to be commenting on, which is always kind of messy,

1957
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:10,599
Speaker 3: and any I feel like That's true of many movies

1958
01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:13,639
Speaker 3: that are attempting to comment on showbiz where they're like, Wow,

1959
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:19,200
Speaker 3: the world's greatest showbiz commentary and they didn't pay their editors,

1960
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:21,960
Speaker 3: and you're like, well, what's the point of this then,

1961
01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:24,280
Speaker 3: So there is like a little bit of that syndrome

1962
01:53:24,320 --> 01:53:28,280
Speaker 3: going on. But yeah, I am pretty into know Me,

1963
01:53:28,479 --> 01:53:31,599
Speaker 3: I love Know Me, I love Crystal, I love the dancing,

1964
01:53:32,200 --> 01:53:36,200
Speaker 3: and I love I Mean. It's problematic in every way

1965
01:53:36,240 --> 01:53:38,559
Speaker 3: you can imagine. And I also like, it's so easy

1966
01:53:38,600 --> 01:53:41,519
Speaker 3: to understand why people love this movie and want to

1967
01:53:41,520 --> 01:53:44,040
Speaker 3: continue to celebrate it, and there are things that make

1968
01:53:44,080 --> 01:53:47,640
Speaker 3: it hard to do. And these these things are are

1969
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:52,400
Speaker 3: both very true. So I'm going to go to nipples

1970
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:56,559
Speaker 3: and I'm going to give them both to cars that

1971
01:53:56,680 --> 01:54:02,960
Speaker 3: know Me kicks his slaps, Those poor cars, Those poor cars,

1972
01:54:03,160 --> 01:54:07,120
Speaker 3: non binary icon, those cars. Crystal.

1973
01:54:07,120 --> 01:54:08,800
Speaker 1: How about you? What do you say?

1974
01:54:09,680 --> 01:54:12,120
Speaker 4: I think that there is an alternate universe, as you've

1975
01:54:12,160 --> 01:54:16,320
Speaker 4: both described, where this movie did not destroy a bunch

1976
01:54:16,360 --> 01:54:19,799
Speaker 4: of women's careers and it doesn't have a brutal rape scene,

1977
01:54:19,960 --> 01:54:24,920
Speaker 4: and we could give it three or four nipples. That

1978
01:54:25,080 --> 01:54:28,760
Speaker 4: is not the world that we live in. And I

1979
01:54:28,760 --> 01:54:31,120
Speaker 4: think I'm gonna be harsher just because I have my

1980
01:54:31,120 --> 01:54:34,760
Speaker 4: own residual guilt about how much I have previously, unquestioningly

1981
01:54:34,960 --> 01:54:37,760
Speaker 4: loved this movie. And I'm going to give it one nipple?

1982
01:54:39,040 --> 01:54:42,880
Speaker 4: And where am I going to give it? Different places?

1983
01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:48,520
Speaker 1: Where are you from, Nomi? Different places?

1984
01:54:48,680 --> 01:54:50,080
Speaker 4: Different places?

1985
01:54:51,040 --> 01:54:54,000
Speaker 1: Well, Crystal, thank you so much for joining us. This

1986
01:54:54,040 --> 01:54:58,640
Speaker 1: has been an absolute treat. Come back any time.

1987
01:54:59,240 --> 01:55:01,520
Speaker 4: I've really really loved it. Thank you so much for

1988
01:55:01,560 --> 01:55:05,160
Speaker 4: having me. Oh, you've both become my strange parasocial friends,

1989
01:55:05,200 --> 01:55:07,240
Speaker 4: so that's quite weird for me.

1990
01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:08,600
Speaker 1: Now we're real friends.

1991
01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:11,880
Speaker 4: Now we're real friends. Yay. True?

1992
01:55:15,120 --> 01:55:17,680
Speaker 1: Where can people check out your work? Follow you on

1993
01:55:17,720 --> 01:55:18,440
Speaker 1: social media?

1994
01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:19,120
Speaker 3: Etc?

1995
01:55:19,960 --> 01:55:22,200
Speaker 4: Is it too soon to do another different places joke?

1996
01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:23,520
Speaker 1: Or no? Keep going.

1997
01:55:26,160 --> 01:55:28,840
Speaker 4: You can listen to my podcasts The Things That Made

1998
01:55:28,840 --> 01:55:32,440
Speaker 4: Me Queer wherever those podcasts can be found. But it's

1999
01:55:32,440 --> 01:55:36,720
Speaker 4: a I interview different special guests about pop culture things

2000
01:55:36,720 --> 01:55:39,600
Speaker 4: that help them understand their queer identities. So things like

2001
01:55:39,600 --> 01:55:41,520
Speaker 4: show Girls come up a lot. If you want to

2002
01:55:41,520 --> 01:55:44,880
Speaker 4: hear us talk about Catwoman or Jean Claude van Dam

2003
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:48,280
Speaker 4: doing the Splits, all these kinds of things. It's the

2004
01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:53,440
Speaker 4: podcast for you and other than that. Yeah, go check

2005
01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:56,919
Speaker 4: out my Instagram or my Twitter wherever else I'm sharing nonsense,

2006
01:55:56,920 --> 01:55:59,640
Speaker 4: it's Crystal will see you now on all those platforms.

2007
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:00,440
Speaker 1: Wonderful.

2008
01:56:00,960 --> 01:56:03,000
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming on again. This was

2009
01:56:03,360 --> 01:56:06,440
Speaker 3: so much fun. Where is the where's the coming joke?

2010
01:56:07,240 --> 01:56:08,600
Speaker 3: What is it against? Yeah?

2011
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:10,720
Speaker 1: Is it weird to it was?

2012
01:56:11,000 --> 01:56:13,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was weird not having anyone come on, but

2013
01:56:13,400 --> 01:56:14,400
Speaker 4: I'm glad I was here.

2014
01:56:15,320 --> 01:56:17,760
Speaker 1: If we could promise one thing on the Bechel Cast,

2015
01:56:17,920 --> 01:56:20,680
Speaker 1: we will not come on people.

2016
01:56:21,080 --> 01:56:24,440
Speaker 3: We've just never. We've just it's just never. It's it

2017
01:56:24,480 --> 01:56:27,760
Speaker 3: would be unprecedented right on the show.

2018
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:36,560
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. Also,

2019
01:56:37,440 --> 01:56:40,200
Speaker 1: we always forget to plug this, but our link tree

2020
01:56:41,360 --> 01:56:45,840
Speaker 1: has things such as our letterbox to count Oh.

2021
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:47,960
Speaker 3: I was like, do we plug link tree? Is that

2022
01:56:48,040 --> 01:56:48,600
Speaker 3: a thing? You know?

2023
01:56:48,760 --> 01:56:51,760
Speaker 1: But it's an avenue by which you can find other

2024
01:56:52,200 --> 01:56:57,520
Speaker 1: things of ours, such as our Patreon Yeah, where you

2025
01:56:57,560 --> 01:57:01,240
Speaker 1: can get two bonus episodes every single month, plus access

2026
01:57:01,320 --> 01:57:06,360
Speaker 1: to the back catalog. We do fun themes, or I

2027
01:57:06,400 --> 01:57:09,640
Speaker 1: think they're fun. Hopefully other people do too.

2028
01:57:09,920 --> 01:57:12,560
Speaker 3: I was like, is that an attack on me? No?

2029
01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:15,880
Speaker 1: No, no, I I'm maybe being too confident. I'm not

2030
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:16,640
Speaker 1: sure not this.

2031
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:20,000
Speaker 3: I think they're fun unlike this bitch.

2032
01:57:22,200 --> 01:57:23,400
Speaker 1: Go get me a beer.

2033
01:57:24,640 --> 01:57:27,040
Speaker 3: No, I won't say that's how that was triggering for me,

2034
01:57:27,040 --> 01:57:28,400
Speaker 3: because that's how Caitlin talks to me.

2035
01:57:29,800 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 1: You have no idea what happens off Mike listeners.

2036
01:57:33,120 --> 01:57:34,360
Speaker 3: It's shocking.

2037
01:57:35,760 --> 01:57:39,840
Speaker 1: Anyway. Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast five dollars a month,

2038
01:57:40,680 --> 01:57:41,120
Speaker 1: do it?

2039
01:57:41,760 --> 01:57:44,080
Speaker 3: Well, how do we end this? Let's get in out,

2040
01:57:44,120 --> 01:57:47,320
Speaker 3: Let's get in a car merch also, oh yeah, get

2041
01:57:47,400 --> 01:57:51,240
Speaker 3: get merch Teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast. Honestly,

2042
01:57:51,280 --> 01:57:52,560
Speaker 3: we don't get a lot of money from that, so

2043
01:57:52,600 --> 01:57:53,320
Speaker 3: you do whatever you want.

2044
01:57:54,800 --> 01:57:57,320
Speaker 1: True, we're not good at selling ourselves.

2045
01:57:57,800 --> 01:57:59,040
Speaker 3: If you want it, you should get it. If you

2046
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:02,120
Speaker 3: don't want it, you're basically just handing money to iHeartRadio,

2047
01:58:02,320 --> 01:58:06,680
Speaker 3: which is interesting. And on that note.

2048
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's get in the car and that we've hit

2049
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:19,280
Speaker 1: and then hitchhike with Jeff to different places.

2050
01:58:19,040 --> 01:58:19,560
Speaker 4: Different place.

2051
01:58:19,600 --> 01:58:22,640
Speaker 3: That is a very cursed I mean, there's a cursed

2052
01:58:22,960 --> 01:58:26,200
Speaker 3: nineties rom common. They're somewhere of like they keep passing

2053
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:30,400
Speaker 3: this this suitcase back and forth. When are these two

2054
01:58:30,720 --> 01:58:32,040
Speaker 3: kids gonna figure it out.

2055
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:34,120
Speaker 4: The only thing they have in common is they both

2056
01:58:34,160 --> 01:58:35,360
Speaker 4: don't like Garth Brooks.

2057
01:58:37,480 --> 01:58:40,120
Speaker 3: And yet we're gonna spend the next two hours telling

2058
01:58:40,160 --> 01:58:41,440
Speaker 3: you that they were made for each other.

2059
01:58:43,680 --> 01:58:46,520
Speaker 1: Okay, Bye,