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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.

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Speaker 1: Jim Hayes alongside Kyle Gibson and the empty square is

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Speaker 1: where Lance Lynn hopefully will be at some point. It's

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Speaker 1: like the Brady Bunch almost. You can point at it. Hey,

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Speaker 1: where's Lance? Uh? Lances? Uh was supposed to be settled

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Speaker 1: into the airport as he's got a flight, and he

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Speaker 1: got hung up going through.

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Speaker 2: He got Hey got him.

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Speaker 3: He's gonna have to get it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe he didn't pass the background check

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Speaker 2: for pre check, or I don't know, maybe he didn't

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Speaker 2: pony up for clear. This is the only time I'm

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Speaker 2: ever going to make fun of him because he's not here. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: I'm scared to make fun of him. He's on the show,

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Speaker 2: but I can't believe he didn't pony up for clear. Lance.

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Speaker 2: Come on, what are we doing?

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Speaker 1: He's sitting on a boatload of money?

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Speaker 3: What a chiefs?

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Speaker 1: Get all right? We can say that because he's not here.

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Speaker 1: But uh. The winter meetings have coming gone the Cardinals

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Speaker 1: very quiet. But there were some moves that I want

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Speaker 1: to get your input, hopefully Lance's input as well, but

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Speaker 1: some moves that may impact what the Cardinals are looking

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Speaker 1: to do so, Pete Alonzo signs a five year, one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty five million dollar free agent deal with

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Speaker 1: the Orioles that could create a lane for Wilson Contreres

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Speaker 1: as the Mets probably at this point have a vacancy

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Speaker 1: at first base. But a little bit about Alonzo too,

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Speaker 1: because I kind of feel like with all the big sluggers,

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Speaker 1: he gets underrated. This guy just turned thirty one, five

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Speaker 1: hundred I'm sorry, five to sixteen career slug He's hit

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Speaker 1: thirty four homers and more in six of his seven seasons.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's a legitimate power bat. And to me,

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Speaker 1: I look at what the Orioles are doing. Kyle used

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Speaker 1: to pitch there. They're not messing around now.

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Speaker 2: No, I think that's a great move for him. I

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Speaker 2: love mount Castle. He's been a guy, you know, he's

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Speaker 2: a glue guy in that locker room, and he's a

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Speaker 2: guy that I feel like they've tried to move or

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Speaker 2: tried to get going. Because when Mountie's going, he is

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Speaker 2: a game changer for that lineup. But you look at

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Speaker 2: Pete and I just like how he adds some hit

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Speaker 2: to it as well, you know, a little difference for

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Speaker 2: you know, between him and Shober to me. Obviously, Alonso

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Speaker 2: plays defense, so he probably got a couple extra you

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Speaker 2: know on the aav there, but you know, you have

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Speaker 2: a little bit more hit to it. Shoreber has more walks,

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Speaker 2: But there's real value in getting hits. You know, sometimes

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Speaker 2: a walk doesn't drive in a guy from second all

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Speaker 2: the time. Sometimes you need that hit. So adding a

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Speaker 2: little bit of hit factor to that I think is

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Speaker 2: really big, but you lose some of the power. But

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Speaker 2: you know, everything I've heard about Alonso is, yeah, he's

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Speaker 2: a great guy. He's going to fit into that locker room. Well,

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Speaker 2: they brought in that fence and left field, so I'm

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Speaker 2: sure that might have been a little bit more attractive

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Speaker 2: for him as well. But he's hitting city field too,

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Speaker 2: That's the thing. He's hitting not exactly a great home

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Speaker 2: park his entire career. So to have thirty four or

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Speaker 2: more or whatever you say there, it's really impressive. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: he's the home run guy that you know, believes he's

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Speaker 2: the best home run hitter in the game at all times.

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Speaker 2: But mixing in I think he led the league in doubles,

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Speaker 2: you know, mixing in forty plus doubles. He was almost

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Speaker 2: a forty forty guy. That's it's impressive for a first

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Speaker 2: basement and for any power hitter for that back.

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Speaker 1: And he's hit fifty homers fifty plus in the season,

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Speaker 1: but he did it earlier in his career, so his

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Speaker 1: name kind of gets off the list when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about big boppers. But you're talking about a guy who

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Speaker 1: changes the complexion of your lineup just by plugging him in.

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Speaker 1: And again, he has a position first base, where Schwarber doesn't.

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Speaker 1: I think that's important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is important. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: defense earlier in his career is probably a little bit better.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, I think there's getting with certain coaches.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a there's a video that I've seen

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Speaker 2: about Bobby Dickerson when he was you know, with the Orioles,

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Speaker 2: with working with Trey Mancini, and you know, getting to

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Speaker 2: the ball. It's really big to get with a coach

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Speaker 2: at first base, and that can really really help you

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Speaker 2: with your hands. First base is I feel like a

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Speaker 2: very underrated position because you just see most of the

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Speaker 2: throws go to him, and if it's not scooped in

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Speaker 2: the dirt, you're like oh well, I can't. I mean,

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Speaker 2: don't blame the guy for not scooping it. But then

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Speaker 2: you see a guy like Goldie. You see, you see

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Speaker 2: some of the better gloves around the league. Osmer is

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Speaker 2: always good, Olson's good. You see those guys, how many

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Speaker 2: balls that hit the dirt they get caught? Then your

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Speaker 2: infielders realize, you know, hey, that guy really.

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Speaker 3: Saved me right there.

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Speaker 2: Harper is another guy that transitioned really well and played

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Speaker 2: first base, and first basements can do a lot. So

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Speaker 2: I think with a little bit of glove work here

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Speaker 2: and there, I think he can, you know, have those

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Speaker 2: defensive numbers up and be big. But if he's a

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Speaker 2: DH in three or three years, you know they missed

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Speaker 2: out on Shorebert. If he's a DH in three or

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Speaker 2: three years, then he's the same guy that you were

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Speaker 2: getting Shorbur to be, you know, for his whole career too.

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Speaker 1: It's a perfect segue into Wilson Contrera. It's a guy

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Speaker 1: who was a catcher now that's putting it out there

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Speaker 1: that maybe he could catch again if he's with the Cardinals.

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Speaker 1: I don't buy that part. But he transitioned to first base.

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Speaker 1: I had my doubts he was really really good at

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Speaker 1: first base. I was surprised how easily that he was

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Speaker 1: able to pick that up. So, first off, I think

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Speaker 1: folks in New York would go crazy for Wilson Contreras

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Speaker 1: if in fact that's even part of the discussion, because

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Speaker 1: Wilson told me and other media members at the end

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Speaker 1: of the season he wanted to stay, but apparently there's

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Speaker 1: some movement with that. But don't you think Wilson would

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Speaker 1: be a good fit for the Mets, especially since Alonso

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Speaker 1: is gone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think New York seems like, for

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Speaker 2: whatever they're trying to do here, they're either trying to

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Speaker 2: shake up the corps a little bit, or they're trying

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Speaker 2: to add some guys to who they believe is their

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Speaker 2: core between Lindor and Soto and Viento's So they're obviously

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Speaker 2: trying to add some new blood in there, and I

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Speaker 2: think Wilson would be a great fit for a lot

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Speaker 2: of teams. I obviously hope he stays in Lewis. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: defensively at first base. One thing about catchers going to first,

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Speaker 2: especially in today's game, you know, you see a lot

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Speaker 2: of catchers on fastballs, especially not going down the block

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Speaker 2: and really using their glove to scoop and push it

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Speaker 2: forward and if they can reach for that, breaking the

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Speaker 2: ball in the dirt. They've gotten so good at reading

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Speaker 2: where it's gonna bounce, it's almost like, if it's gonna

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Speaker 2: bounce behind the plate, they would rather take their glove

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Speaker 2: and push it forward so that they don't go to

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Speaker 2: their knees and give that runner an easier read to

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Speaker 2: take the extra base. So I feel like Wilson's transition

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Speaker 2: first was a whole lot easier because he's he was

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Speaker 2: good back there doing that. So for him to just

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Speaker 2: go from pushing them all forward to catching them off

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Speaker 2: first base seemed like a pretty easy transition form.

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Speaker 3: And made it made it everybody good.

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Speaker 2: Now you haven't made it yet. You got a flight,

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Speaker 2: you're not.

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Speaker 3: There yet, we're halfway home, or check that at least.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna have to. They're gonna going to have

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Speaker 1: the boarding process as well. I'm surprised you don't have

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Speaker 1: like some sort of v.

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Speaker 3: I under a kids under age nobody has a real

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Speaker 3: ID because they're not of age. They don't like that

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Speaker 3: the world we live in now.

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Speaker 1: No, but a kid doesn't need an ID, right, the

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Speaker 1: kid doesn't need an ID.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, when you're thirteen year old's five foot eight

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Speaker 3: and looks like she's twenty one, you have those issues.

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Speaker 1: So we were talking about the Orioles getting Alonzo five years,

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Speaker 1: big contract, one hundred and fifty million plus, and we're

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Speaker 1: talking about whether Wilson Contreras, who made a great transition

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Speaker 1: to first base, seems like a good fit for the

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Speaker 1: Mets if he's willing to wave the straight Just your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on that.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, that definitely fits you're looking at They need

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Speaker 3: a right handed bat, they need some power, they need

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Speaker 3: some you know, they need to answer some energy in

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Speaker 3: that lineup, probably from losing a guy like Het. So

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Speaker 3: definitely think that that's kind of a place that fits

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Speaker 3: for him. And I think some other pieces that the

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Speaker 3: Cardinals have so called been saying that they're on the

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Speaker 3: block kind of fit to So there might be a

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Speaker 3: way that I think you could work out where hey,

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Speaker 3: they take the money and they kind of maybe there's

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Speaker 3: a reliever, you know, I think they're looking for a

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Speaker 3: back end reliever because they've lost two. You know, maybe

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Speaker 3: that's a fit for Jojo too. So there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of things that fit with that trade, if they're really

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Speaker 3: for sure trying to move those two.

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Speaker 1: Guys, tell me if I'm crazy on this, But they

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Speaker 1: traded Nemo to Texas. They need an outfielder, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of teams apparently are interested in Nude. Even though

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Speaker 1: he's coming off the two heel surgeries, he seems like

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Speaker 1: a fit for the met someone crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And then now you throw a third guy in there,

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Speaker 3: and now it's kind of a no doubter just to

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Speaker 3: see what's available, and you know that's a lot. The

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Speaker 3: Cardinals are prebat going to win a lot for all

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Speaker 3: three of those guys in one group. So it's good

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Speaker 3: to be the question of a what package is available

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Speaker 3: to actually make that happen. But the three guys that

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Speaker 3: are most talked about on the trade block are a

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Speaker 3: fit in New York, And to be honest with you,

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Speaker 3: so's Nato. Aaron not is a fit for New York too,

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Speaker 3: needing a right handed bat, a guy that can pull

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Speaker 3: homers in that ballpark with the way it's said up

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Speaker 3: and last year he was talking about being okay with

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Speaker 3: playing first if need be to make a trade work too,

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Speaker 3: And it just so happens that they need a right

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Speaker 3: handed hitting first baseman, and the Cardinals technically have two

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Speaker 3: guys that fit that mold right there for them. So

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Speaker 3: it's gonna be interesting if if something works out with

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Speaker 3: the Mets, because all signs point to at least one

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Speaker 3: of those right handed hitters and maybe a reliever and

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Speaker 3: or Newt going going there because that's what they're looking for.

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Speaker 3: And you know, Newt's probably on the cheaper side than

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Speaker 3: the free agent guys are, so maybe you can you

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Speaker 3: can mixmatch that with a Nado or Contrasts contract where

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Speaker 3: you don't have to eat any money, and.

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Speaker 2: The Mets my question would be, though, my question be

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Speaker 2: those can you get enough out of that package to

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Speaker 2: make it worth moving a controllable reliever and Newt Bar

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Speaker 2: because once again, I know Newt struggle, but his floor

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Speaker 2: is an MLB average hitter and an above defender that's

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Speaker 2: valuable with his ceiling being you know, borderline All Star,

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Speaker 2: maybe a Gold Glover out there. So I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think there's there's real value to trade there. But do

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Speaker 2: you use the controllable reliever and Newt bar to offset

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Speaker 2: paying for Wilson paying for part of that? Maybe, but

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Speaker 2: I still think you're doing yourself a disservice if you're

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Speaker 2: just making a move just to get rid of the money.

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Speaker 1: I think they are flushed with young pitching prospects. So

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Speaker 1: the Mets have a lot of young talented pictures in

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Speaker 1: the pipe.

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Speaker 3: I'm going off of the Sunny Gray trade. They're looking

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Speaker 3: like they'd rather they're figuring it out a way for

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Speaker 3: offset money more so than they are for the package

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Speaker 3: they're getting back. So I mean, it's just depends. But

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Speaker 3: I don't think Wilson's Wilston's contract doesn't look terrible right

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Speaker 3: now because of because of you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: So they might not even have to eating that. And

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Speaker 3: I was going to say that from the get good,

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Speaker 3: I would say Nato is the one that everyone's saying, Oh,

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Speaker 3: they're gonna have to eat some money to make that move.

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Speaker 3: So if you're talking about newt And and Wilson and

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Speaker 3: Jojo to New York, if that's a possibility, they should

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Speaker 3: get a boatload of players or some or at least

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Speaker 3: you know, you're trying to get four high end guys

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Speaker 3: that are either ready for big leagues or they are

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Speaker 3: they can you know, you're looking at mid mid seasons

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Speaker 3: and then next thing, we know, you're and you got

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Speaker 3: to pick what you want. Right Where am I at?

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Speaker 3: My second base of the future is probably good. My

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Speaker 3: short shop of the future is good. Am I good with? Uh?

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Speaker 3: You know I'm good at catcher with all the catchers

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Speaker 3: that I have? You know? Okay, Now where do I

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Speaker 3: fill in around? Is it? Do I get a you know,

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Speaker 3: do I get a couple of corner outfitters? Do I

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Speaker 3: get I n starters upside? You know, it just depends

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Speaker 3: on what you're looking for. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: different ways that could go about. And those guys and

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Speaker 3: you know, obviously New York's have fit with with you know,

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Speaker 3: they're not they don't have pizza money. They got off

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Speaker 3: the books, so they've got a lot of you know,

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Speaker 3: there was thirty five to whatever he's making last year.

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Speaker 3: That you can get all those guys for less than

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Speaker 3: thirty it's not a bad, no bad. It depends on

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Speaker 3: how much you're willing to give up prospect wids to

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Speaker 3: make that happen.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a break here, we'll come back

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Speaker 1: with more. I was just curious to get your guys'

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Speaker 1: thoughts on the Cardinals not pulling any deals. It's early

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Speaker 1: in the process. We get it. You are watching Cardinal

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Speaker 1: The hot stove keeps cooking. But the Cardinals didn't get

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Speaker 1: anything done. At the winter meetings, Heinbloom was on a

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Speaker 1: foul territory where he said, look, we didn't do anything,

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Speaker 1: and we have nothing up our sleeves, but you know,

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Speaker 1: the phones work and we're open for business. Kyle, is

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Speaker 1: there any takeaway you have from the Cardinals not getting

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Speaker 1: anything on during that period?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I think what you don't

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Speaker 2: do in this situation, if you're the Cardinals, I think

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Speaker 2: somewhat you've laid out a little bit of your plans.

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Speaker 2: We talked about this maybe early on, you know, with

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Speaker 2: our move here before in the earlier podcast, But you

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Speaker 2: kind of laid out your moves here what you want

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Speaker 2: to do trading guys, which is somewhat showing your hand

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Speaker 2: a little bit. So if you're gonna do that, then

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Speaker 2: I think you have to stick to your asking price,

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Speaker 2: because you've essentially already come down by telling them they're available.

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Speaker 2: So I think you stick to what you're looking for because,

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Speaker 2: as I still believe, you can always pivot and add

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Speaker 2: a pitcher and add a bullpen guy and maybe an

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Speaker 2: outfield back. And I think you're a playoff team, so

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Speaker 2: I think that I don't know, I would not give

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Speaker 2: up guys like Donovan and Newt Bar and Wilson, uh,

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Speaker 2: just just to be making moves and trade lance.

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Speaker 1: You think there's gonna be a wrecking ball in terms

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Speaker 1: of players Delta lay.

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Speaker 3: You know what I'm The more I look at it

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Speaker 3: and the more I see things, I think, if I'm

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Speaker 3: going to have what he wants, it's Wilson and Nato

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Speaker 3: gone and the rest of those pieces stay. And then

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Speaker 3: you and then be honest with you, you figure out which

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Speaker 3: one of them or which couple of them you're going

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Speaker 3: to lock up to make kind of your next wave

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Speaker 3: of the group that's going to build the future with

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Speaker 3: all the young guys that you've acquired in the last

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Speaker 3: half a season, with trade deadlines and this and that,

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Speaker 3: and then you figure out, hey, what free agent pieces

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Speaker 3: that are still here after January one that need a

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Speaker 3: job and how do they fill in? And how can

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Speaker 3: I get a one for five here for this guy

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Speaker 3: this guy? And then, like Kyle said, then you're looking

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Speaker 3: at a chance to be a contender in the central

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Speaker 3: if you add the right veteran pieces or free agent

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Speaker 3: pieces that are kind of people are going to call

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Speaker 3: it the scrap heap at the end, but those are

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Speaker 3: guys that are looking to prove their worth. They're looking

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Speaker 3: to get a one year deal and be better to

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Speaker 3: hopefully go into free agency next year. So I think

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Speaker 3: there's a lot that especially if you keep Donavan new

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Speaker 3: and you look at those guys that hey, here can

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Speaker 3: we do. But even if you keep Wilson and Nato

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Speaker 3: and you look at oh, now we don't need a

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Speaker 3: right handed bat that we keep saying we need. So

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Speaker 3: then you look at that way, it's like, oh, maybe

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Speaker 3: I just add a starter on a one year deal.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'd add two bullpen pieces because I know La

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Speaker 3: he's going in the rotation at some point, if not

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Speaker 3: the start of the year, and next thing, I know,

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Speaker 3: I've got everything covered along with the arms that I've

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Speaker 3: stockpiled over the last trade deadline to this winter.

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Speaker 1: I think lay starts in the rotation and he gets

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Speaker 1: double digit wins. I'm a fan of that guy. Last thing,

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Speaker 1: because Lance got to get on a plane and Kyle,

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Speaker 1: I know, has other things to take care. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask you about schoobl right, everyone's heard the rumors

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Speaker 1: he's going to the Dodgers, and people are freaking out

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Speaker 1: about that. If he goes to the Dodgers, the world

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Speaker 1: is coming to an end. The Dodgers, because they're so

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Speaker 1: good and because they spend more than anyone else, have

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Speaker 1: become the villains of Major League Baseball. Do do you

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Speaker 1: sense that people are like there's a backlash against the Dodgers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. I think somebody I can't

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Speaker 2: remember who laid it out, but I heard it played

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Speaker 2: out pretty good yesterday. Everybody was upset with the Angels

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Speaker 2: for how long? Because they wasted the prime of Mike

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Speaker 2: Trout Right, Like, he's played in three playoff games. He's

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Speaker 2: still in his prime, but they've wasted him to this point.

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Speaker 2: Right now, the Dodgers go and get Show Hey, the

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Speaker 2: best player of our generation and maybe of all time.

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Speaker 2: What are they not doing. They are not taking a

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Speaker 2: chance of letting him play out his contract and not

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Speaker 2: winning multiple World Series. They're saying, we've gone all in

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Speaker 2: on Show Hey. So we're going all in the rest

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Speaker 2: of the way and we're going to leave nothing to doubt.

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Speaker 2: And now everybody hates the Dodgers for doing it. So

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Speaker 2: which side do you want to do you want to

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Speaker 2: hate the team for not building around Trout or do

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Speaker 2: you want to hate the team for build around show? Hey, Like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think once again we've said this before.

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Speaker 2: Literally every team has the ability to go do this.

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Speaker 3: Every team has the ability.

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Speaker 2: The Pirates, they have the ability to lock up Paul

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Speaker 2: Schemes right now and give him the deal that he

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Speaker 2: wants to.

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Speaker 3: Stay at Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 2: Every team has ab able to do it. Not every

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Speaker 2: team has the ability to trade for a Trek school well,

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Speaker 2: because maybe they don't have the prospect capital. But every

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Speaker 2: team the Tiger's gonna say right now that we want

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Speaker 2: to lock him up, and they could get it done

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Speaker 2: and have the money to do it. So we can

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Speaker 2: hate the Dodgers all we want, but they're making sure

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Speaker 2: that they don't waste the seven hundred million dollars if

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Speaker 2: they pay, and that they're gonna pay for the next

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Speaker 2: thirty years because they're paying for this guy for a

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Speaker 2: long time.

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Speaker 1: Fair point is the hatred toward the hundreds with plays Land.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if I'm hating anybody, I'm hating Detroit

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Speaker 3: right now for not paying the kid that's won two

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Speaker 3: cy youngs for you when he's making pennies technically off

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Speaker 3: for what he's worth. So that's the team you should hate. Now,

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Speaker 3: the Dodgers are going to give up, you know what,

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Speaker 3: six prospects to get a kid to go do his

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Speaker 3: thing and then probably give him four hundred million dollars,

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Speaker 3: but defer thirty million a year just so he doesn't

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Speaker 3: have to pay taxes. Sorry for being smarter than the

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Speaker 3: rest of you and having a pair. So no, I

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Speaker 3: don't think you hate them. You hate the teams that

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Speaker 3: are not man enough to pay the guys that are

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Speaker 3: there doing the things that you want from them, and

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Speaker 3: then you're scared to pay when it comes time. So

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Speaker 3: those are the teams you should be mad at.

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Speaker 1: So I've heard both sides, hello, both sides that it

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Speaker 1: could happen. It won't happen. Before we go, Kyle, do

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Speaker 1: you think we're going to see Schooble in a Dodger's uniform.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't think it happens.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it happens, and I think ultimately he

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Speaker 2: stays in Detroit. I think they find way.

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Speaker 3: Say ten years four hundred.

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Speaker 2: I know they're because he's no picture is going to

406
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Speaker 2: get that, right, So like, that's just that's not gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: Going going years for a picture is six to eight,

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Speaker 2: so that's what it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: And you say, hey, this is.

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Speaker 2: What this is the forty or forty one that here

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Speaker 2: it is for six years?

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Speaker 3: What Garrett cole get he got ten at three sixty. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but it's happened, and it has happened. I'm just saying,

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Speaker 3: would I would I do it? No, But if you're

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Speaker 3: his agent, it's going to be north of what col

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Speaker 3: got for ten years, So there's four hundred.

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Speaker 1: Might be honest with gentlemen, Thank you, Uh travels. You

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Speaker 1: just want to see everyone get paid. I don't blame it.

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Speaker 3: Hey, you get mad at the Dodgers and show. They

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Speaker 3: gave show a bunch of money and then decided to

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Speaker 3: own Japan and every endorsement deal possible. Sorry, they're smarter

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Speaker 3: than everybody.

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Speaker 2: I forget. Let's not forget what the show deal. Other

424
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Speaker 2: teams had the chance to do the same thing, right.

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Speaker 2: He was very open from the reports that he wanted

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Speaker 2: to do this type of deal with whoever it was

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Speaker 2: to help them win. Right now, most teams have the

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Speaker 2: ability to pay him over thirty years, and only one.

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Speaker 3: Had a lifetime ambassador of Japan in one year.

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Speaker 2: In one year, he's paid for the deal.

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Speaker 1: Gentlemen, thank you for the thoughts. I feel smarter lance again,

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Speaker 1: Save travels. That's going to do it for this edition

433
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: of Cardinal Territory. We'll see you next time and hopefully

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Speaker 1: that episode won't suck.