WEBVTT - 080523 A Healing Conversation Between Black People and Jews (Part 2) 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:06.040 And now watch showing my mic back like that. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:13.840 We can strikes from headquarters behind in the If. 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:15.680 You just tuning in the civic cipher, I'm your host. 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:18.600 Ramsey's job is rams John, I am q lord. 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:23.920 You are still hopefully tuned and d are uh And 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:25.680 we have a special guest on the show with this today, 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:26.599 Amy Horowitz. 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:31.040 We're having a ball talking about some things that really 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:33.920 need to be talked about. And obviously we're going to 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.000 get back to him in just a second, but I 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.400 also want you to stick around for the uh the 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:41.239 Way Black History Fact. We're going to spend this part 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:45.640 of the show talking about relationships, particularly the relationship between 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.839 Jewish people and Black people. On this show, we stand 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.680 on the truth that Jewish people are our brothers and 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:58.200 our sisters, and we feel like it's necessary to have 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:04.160 a conversation that is intent on healing some of the 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.640 fraying that has taken place over the last couple of years. 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.760 And again, Amy's going to join us for that, and 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.679 then for our way Black History in fact, we're talking 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.520 about the origin story of the NAACP. But first and foremost, 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.759 it's time to discuss ba Ba becoming a better ally 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.840 BABA and Today's BABA is sponsored by Major Threads. For 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:28.400 the finest in men's sportswear, checkmajorthreads dot com and for 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.319 today's BABA, we're going to be checking out Yahoo News. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:37.920 The headline reads how reparations pioneer Evanston, Illinois is rolling 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.600 out payments to black citizens. I'll read a bit. The 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.199 city started dispersing reparations payments to locals in twenty twenty 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.800 two in the form of vouchers for housing and since 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.960 and has since expanded to include cash. As talk of 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.640 reparations ripples through the federal and local governments nationwide, Evanston, 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:56.720 Illinois has become the first city in the United States 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:58.880 to put money in the hands of black residents affected 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.160 by years of discrimination. Quote. I'm excited to see that 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.120 over one hundred municipalities have followed in their inspiration and 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.640 what's happened in Evanstone. We all look forward to seeing 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.880 more legislation put into law, then into practice, and then dispersed. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.760 Robin Sue Simmons, the founder and executive director of First 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:22.760 Repair and chairperson of the city's reparations committee, told Yahoo News. Simmons, 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.920 a former alder woman in Evanstone, which has a sixteen 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.760 percent black population and is located about twelve miles north 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.919 of Chicago, has been a pioneer in bringing reparations to 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.160 one of the black communities affected by the aftermath of 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.560 slavery in the United States. Quote. Most federal policy is 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.239 implemented with a spark in a local community, a grassroots leader. 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.720 Every other area of government we look at hyper locally 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.880 and then it trickles up to our congressional leader, she said. 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:53.200 But Simmons recalled just having her own city in mind 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.720 when she started out the journey of repairing harm to 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:59.080 the dwindling number of black residents in the community. Obviously 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.639 there's a lot more huge and a valid reason why 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.639 they undertook this endeavor. So again, Yahoo, you can check 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:08.600 it out, but we wanted to shout out credit where 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.120 it's due. That is becoming a better ally in our opinion. 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:14.480 Now it's time to move on. 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:15.520 Uh. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:21.359 Amy Listen, I appreciate your input and everything that you 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.000 said in the first half of the show. Feel free 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.040 to dance back and forth with your with the work 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.160 that you do professionally and the UH topic that we 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:36.600 want to address now. But we feel like again it's 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.720 necessary to have this conversation. A little bit of background 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:41.040 from me. 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:42.360 Uh. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.240 One of my best friends in high school since passed away. 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:51.200 His name was Ari Block Ari, and so Ari Ami, 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:52.840 you know we have For those that don't know, we 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.120 had an issue with an email earlier and I instead 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.080 of typing Amy, I typed in Ari, you know. But 0:03:58.880 --> 0:03:59.400 that's uh? 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:01.320 Is it? Is it? 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:05.200 I believe it might be. But anyway, I learned at 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:13.120 a young age how beautiful Jewish culture is. I learned 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:19.640 about the commonalities between Jewish people and black people. And 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:26.240 I learned that if I wanted to play basketball, if 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.960 I wanted to listen to Bone Thugs and Harmony CDs, 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.800 if I wanted to, you know, go skating, because I 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.880 was a skater. For those that don't know, in high school, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:41.760 my Jewish friends were just as likely to engage in 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:46.480 my favorite activities as anyone else. And fortunately, my high 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.760 school was very, very close to a prominent Jewish community, 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.960 and so there was a decent number of Jewish people there. 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:54.520 And this is not the experience for a lot of 0:04:54.560 --> 0:05:00.200 people because there are not as many Jewish people as 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.240 there are Christian people globally. It's just not a big thing, 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:09.360 and yet Jewish people have sort of become like almost 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:13.720 like a boogieyman in recent years. And I would like 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.440 for you to speak to that first, you know, how 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.000 does that feel? And as someone who is Jewish and 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.680 from a Jewish community, how does that feel? And then 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:25.200 you know, talk to us. Do you feel like it's 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.520 based in reality? Do you feel it's warranted? You know, 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.320 on and on and then we'll go from there. 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:32.040 I may have a couple thoughts on the topic. 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.239 Yeah, well please, I'd imagine. 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:39.280 So, so, to me, the apotheosis of Jewish Black relations 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.240 did not come when Jews were marching at Selma. It 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.840 was when I saw the Beastie Boys and run DMC 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:51.080 at the Greek play together. That was the height of 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:52.320 Black Jewish relations. 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:53.320 I'll take it. 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:53.600 Man. 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.920 So it's so interesting. Yeah, Anty Semitism is on the rise, 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:05.000 no question about it. Unlike what most people have said, 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.480 it did not begin its rise in with with Trump 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.920 coming in, although it continued the rise during Trump's reign 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.599 happened maybe five or six years earlier than that happened 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.000 to be during Obama, but had nothing to do with 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.480 Obama's happening. That was who was the president when the 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:28.320 rise began. Statistically speaking, so any Semitism is interesting. So 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.240 when I was a kid growing up in Los Angeles 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.400 in the eighties, there was a lot of any Semitism. 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:39.040 My synagogue or my Jewish school was routinely broken into, 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:46.240 was trashed, was graffiti with with with swastikas. I would 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.200 say at least once or twice a year. It would 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.640 happen to either my synagogue or my school every year. 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.680 I never made the news. It just was a relatively 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.120 common occurrence in Los Angeles and I imagine other cities 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.960 in the country. Otherwise, a kid, your perspective is local. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.920 It's not global at all. Now. At the time, the 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.880 anti Semitism that was occurring was exclusively from the hard right. 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:12.920 It was exclusively from skinheads, Neo Nazis. The guys that 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:18.920 I fought with routinely were always skinheads and white supremacists. 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.280 And then what happened was sometimes in the late eighties 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.280 early nineties, it kind of magically all went away and 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:30.040 you rarely heard of any Semitism. Again, it didn't really occur, 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.960 and a something did happen, if a synagogue was defaced, 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.600 it made news because it was so rare, and this 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.880 like Goldilocks period when it went away for maybe two decades, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.400 maybe a little bit less than that, maybe fifteen years, 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.080 And now it's come back, and it's come back in 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:50.680 a more virulent form because now it's from the It's 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.400 still part of the hard right culture, right the extreme 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.320 right culture, but it's now also become part of the 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.400 extreme left culture. You see it from both ends. Ironically, 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:02.960 I spent a lot of time in any Semites. I 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.800 speak with a lot of them. Oftentimes I interview them 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.400 and I'm talking from KKK. People were par the nation 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:14.280 of Islam both sides. And what's interesting is they both 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.960 If you ask them why they like Jews, you often 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.640 hear the same responses. It's really interesting. I've always thought 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.280 politics is not a linear line. I've always believed politics 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:25.640 is a circle. If you go so far and left, 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:27.160 so far to the right, you end up coming back 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.160 to the same place. I think history has proven that. 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.760 And uh yeah, you see a lot of the same 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.959 responses when it comes to why don't you like Jews? 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:43.800 Jews control the media, Jews control economy, control armies, same 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.400 kind of clap track you heard throughout the centuries of 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.800 jew hatred. It's fascinating, but it's more virulent because it's 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.640 now coming from both ends. And that's not a pincer 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.360 move you want to be involved in. And I think 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:02.720 that my oftentimes Jews tend to be left of center. Right, 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.120 Jews tend to vote Democrat, not dissimilar from black people. 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.880 And it's because and I understand why, right, I vote 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.000 more Republican Democratic, I voted, I've voted. I work for 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:18.240 a Democrat. But I understand why because Jews look at 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.760 everything through the prism of social justice because of our history, 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.719 which I get right, the the the amount of oppression 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.720 that we have felt over the centuries has made us 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.240 acutely aware of issues around social justice, which, by the way, 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.160 is another reason why Jews were in the forefront of 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:41.720 the issues for against racism. And I'm trying to help 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:46.520 black people lift themselves because we understood their history. Well, 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.640 we lived that history in a lot of cases, not 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.960 just in this country but globally, and we had done 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.320 better for ourselves and we wanted to make sure other 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.079 people didn't have to experience what we experienced as much 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.080 as we could. And that's why. And so Democrats, and again, 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:03.600 if I'm going on too long coming out. 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.080 No, no, it's your floor. 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.640 So Democrats or Jews were always Republican voters because they 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.360 thought the Republican Party after Lincoln was the party of 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.280 social justice for obvious reasons. And then with Franklin Roosevelt 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.680 it switched like a light switch. They all moved Republican 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.280 Democrat have never looked back since then. You know, I 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.720 would say roughly a little bit lower than the black community, 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:30.480 probably around eighty percent of Jews vote Democrat. And that's why. 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.400 So it is interesting to see any Semitism rear its 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.240 ugly head from both sides, left and right. 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.640 You mentioned earlier that left of center, center, and right 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:48.880 of center have far more in common than their differences, Ramses, 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.680 and I believe that that is true across political lines, 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.559 across ethnicities, that in general, people have far more in 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.920 common than the things that we highlight to divide ourselves, 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.240 or that the things that have been highlighted for us 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.880 to keep us divided is really how we view it. So, 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:07.800 you know, thank you for pointing that out, because we 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.239 believe that's something that we believe is true across politics, 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:17.880 across ideologies, and across ethnicities and you also point out 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.240 the extremes in that circle, and that was a I 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:22.360 think that was a great mental picture for our audience 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:26.400 as well. You know, as you keep going so far extreme, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.240 those extremes end up with just as much in common 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.319 as the rest of us. So in either direction too far, 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.120 you're kind of going the wrong way at a certain point. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:38.960 With regards to. 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:45.600 The most recent rise and anti semitism and that rhetoric 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.400 by some popular or you know, need I say, celebrity 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:56.760 African Americans, what do you think has led to that 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.760 type of ideology and it being expressed out loud in 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.360 the media over the past year, you know, you know, 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.319 mister West and his deaf Con three and the promoting 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.360 of some anti semitic views and some films on Amazon 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.920 by you know, a professional basketball player. What type of 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.240 things do you think stoked that or led to the 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:23.280 popularity of a seemingly anti semitic view from a generation 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.000 of black people that we hadn't seen before. 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.319 Yeah, and it's unfortunately it's it goes far wider than that. 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:32.480 I bet it does. 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.199 Yeah, there's there's a lot I mean, there's there's a 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.000 lot of names that people often probably don't even know 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.240 ice Cube is an example that comes to mind, who 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.360 said horrifically and semitic things, promoted an Semitic memes, has 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.760 even attacked Black I mean I remember him. He attacked 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.240 Kream dul Jabbar with an a Semitic slur. Oddly enough, 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.720 because last time I checked, Cream wasn't Jewish. I wish 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.960 it was, but but it's not. Nick Cannon, I mean 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:06.480 big Nick, big big names who are sterling sharp, you know, 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:10.680 Stephen Jackson. Anyways, I I don't go through the list. 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.719 So there's a lot of commonality between between them. And 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.520 I hate to say it, but a lot of it 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.920 comes from the Nation of Islam, I gotta say. And 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.600 I think that the support of the Nation of Islam, 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.800 particularly it's leader Lewis Ferrikhon. You see a commonality among 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.920 all the people who have said these things, who had 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.400 then spoken about Lewis Ferrikhon in a very positive light, 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.240 and they've pup they've parroted much of the words Farakhon 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:47.440 has used and not in the Holocaust, calling Jews roaches, 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:51.760 saying Jews are parasites, Jews control all these these these 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:58.280 are these are oftentimes script from Lewis Farakhon, and I 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.679 think that the other problem is that we've got we've 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:02.560 let them get away with it. And I always look, 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.120 I always like to say, let's look in the mirror, 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.079 or let's put the shoe on the other foot and 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:10.199 and and see, because I think that's very clarifying. If you, 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.800 for example, would say, if a white person would say 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.480 those awful things but instead of just changed you for 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:23.000 black person, that person would rightly be be vilified and 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:27.080 will probably never work again and or or certainly not 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.760 work for a very long time unless until penance was made. 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.960 But a lot of times these guys aren't made to 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:35.240 face the same mus Yeah, there might be a couple, 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.000 Oh he's got to apologize or you know, say something. 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.280 The ADL organization, by the way, I don't particularly care for. 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.000 And yeah, they all went through their penance of just 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:47.440 say hey, sorry if I offended you, or you know, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.040 I'm learning more about this, but it's not real, let's 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.120 be honest. I hope it was, and I hope some 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.960 of them have learned. But I think a lot of 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:01.160 it comes from that. You know. What's also interesting, there's 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.480 there's a there's this move to make Jews white people. 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.760 This is something that that this is not a it's 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.400 not a new thing, but it's it's it's it's kind 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.440 of come back to where it was. I remember James Baldwin, 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.200 the great, great, great Black writer, wrote this essay on 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.920 any Semitism, and what he ended up saying was is 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.960 even back then I was written in the sixties. He 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.920 talked about the high levels of any Semitism the black community. 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.960 But what he said was, it's really more is Jewish 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.200 people as a proxy for white people. It's really a 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.280 hatred of white people. But Jewish people just tend to 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.000 they tend to be the grosser at the time in 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.680 Harlem where they tended to be the landlord, and and 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.800 they kind of used as a proxy. And the danger 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:46.840 of doing that is this, first of all, it's just 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:48.240 just factually false. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:48.840 Uh. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.320 Jews come in all shape, sizes and colors. In my 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.640 personal family, I have people who are black, not not 0:15:56.080 --> 0:16:00.400 brown black people my family who are dark brown. Personally 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.960 am a person of color. My mother comes from Iron. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:08.640 We come of all shape sizes, racial ethnicities. So we're 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.720 clearly not white people necessarily. Some of us are white, 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.240 but not all of us. But the reason why it's 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.720 done I Remember I'm going thinking about Whoope Goldberg on 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.600 the View made this point and I thought it was 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.760 really dangerous where she was talking about the Holocaust and said, 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.200 well it was y'all white people kind of fighting amongst yourselves. 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.640 Now it was offensive in a couple levels. First of all, 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.440 come dismissing the holocausts you all people were fighting esach other. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.640 And second of all, the fact that she made all 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.920 Jews as white people. And the reason why it's done 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.200 is it's you know, you guys believe the term intersectionality. 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.800 Do you guys know that term? Yes, yes, So it's 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.040 I think it's because of the idea of intersectionality, where 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:54.960 if because you have the intersectionality is kind of created 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.480 as a first of all, intersectionality something I have a 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.760 lot of issues with, primarily because it's about the connection, 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:06.680 the connective tissue of victimhood and also based on really 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:08.879 economic power. So you put white people on the top 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.560 of that pyramid, put black people that say, at the 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.800 bottom of the pyramid, and you say, well, if you 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.239 put Jews of white people, then therefore it's okay if 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:18.920 we speak polly of them, because they're really part of 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.800 the intersectional oppression that we face. 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.240 So how about this? Yeah, if I'm in of course, 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.520 now there's going to be a lot of people who 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:35.040 will listen to this and appreciate the insight and appreciate 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:39.080 how it feels to be a Jewish man experiencing this. 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:44.040 I will affirm again you are my brother, and I 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.040 appreciate that you came on here. But I wouldn't be 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:51.680 doing my job if I did not try to ask 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.960 questions that perhaps our listeners who are trying to learn 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.600 more would would ask. And so allow me to play 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:03.959 devil's advocate, forgive the expression. So for a black person, 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:11.080 the experience of interacting with an individual who lacks melanin 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:21.320 is a unique experience. You lack melanin that means white, right, right, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.560 or a person who's white passing. This is what I'm 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.479 This is what I'm saying, So white or white adjacent, right. 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.640 This is a person that if you know nothing else 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.520 about me, you do know that I'm black. I wear 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.560 it all over my whole body, right, So my experience 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.399 is going to be very different. I cannot hide it. 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:39.280 My hair grows this way, my skin looks like this. 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:40.680 This is who I am. You can tell that I'm 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.840 black from across the street a Jewish person. You cannot 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.000 tell that a person is Jewish from across the street. 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.200 In other words, Whoopie Goldberg an example that you mentioned, 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.560 Whoopy Goldberg is a Jewish woman, but you would not 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:55.680 know that unless she said it to you, or unless 0:18:55.680 --> 0:19:00.399 you observed her worshiping or partaking in Jewish customs. But 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.320 you do know full well to sheose a black woman, 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:09.480 and that visual in many instances where she lacks power, 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.560 will elicit and approach to her or a response to her, 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:20.000 some of which could conceivably be negative, and those of 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.359 us in the no refer to that as racism, and 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:29.119 so anti semitism. Again, my listeners may make this connection, 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:33.440 and I'm asking for clarification from you. Anti Semitism is 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:41.399 something that is not by from that vantage point, not as. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:45.719 What was that visual. 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.879 It's not as visual, right. In other words, you have 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.200 to invite someone in to know this part about you, 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.240 and then they can choose to discriminate based on that information. 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:58.760 Whereas people who've already made up their minds about how 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.239 they feel about black people can spot black people out 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:05.400 of a lineup. I use that term almost intentionally and deliberately, 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.600 so your thoughts on a person who might push back 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:11.639 and say, well, you know, some of this stuff is 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:14.440 based in reality at least to some degree. 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.560 Yeah, I mean look not to say that. Obviously a 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:23.080 black person and a Jewish white person look very dissimilar 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.280 the old like I would look. It is visual when 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.280 it comes to any Semitism to a certain extent, the 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.119 extent that Jewish people not all the time, but there 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.240 are a lot of Jews on Saturday, I wear a yamica. 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:37.959 I am very visually Jewish. 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:41.040 Sure, sure ari war one every day there. 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:45.080 If you're a Hasidic Jew, you look very visually Jewish. 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:46.520 Absolutely, Now we. 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:50.760 Can shed that, obviously you cannot. But still there is 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:52.240 a visual component to it. 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:52.479 Right. 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.720 So for example, when you see Jews being beat up 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.800 in Brooklyn, it's oftentimes the Jews are being almost exclusively 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.840 are the ones who look Jewish and they're Hasidic. They're 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.560 wearing the garb because a person who's attacking them visually 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.159 identified that he wasn't invited to their home and then 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:11.600 realized they were Jewish, or got to a conversation we 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:14.240 have to do it. We're punched. They were attacked and 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:19.600 beaten because they were visually Jewish, so not that. Yeah, 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.560 so I agree there's a difference, but there's also similarity to. 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:25.639 It, sure, and I believe that you're right. There's a 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.640 lot more similarities there. And really this conversation is meant 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.640 to do some healing. Another thing I want to point out, 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:38.920 if I may, is that the Nation of Islam, obviously 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:42.480 here we have to deal with all different facets of 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:47.440 black life, and everyone who we believe is marginalized, we 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.080 do our best to share this space with him. So 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.200 this includes our Asian, American and Pacific Islander brothers and sisters, 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:57.159 our lgbt Q I A plus brothers and sisters and 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.159 on and on. You you realize the list. And when 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:01.960 we do our peek, you do not have the Sikhs on. 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:03.119 Do not care about the seeks. 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.359 The Sikhs were out there helping us protest in twenty 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:09.080 twenty with the turbans and everything, and so those are 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.760 our brothers and our sisters as well, and when they 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:13.680 need us, we will be here for them. But I 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:16.960 do want to ask you this while, and we just 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.479 have about a minute or so left for you to respond. 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:25.320 But I recognize that there is a deep rooted history 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:33.440 between Muslims and Jewish people that exists long before this 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.680 chapter in American history, and in fact, I believe the 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:42.080 origin might have been in the Middle East somewhere, and 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.960 perhaps there's still some fighting going on there. I mostly 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:47.440 focus on American issues relative to black people, so I 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:53.280 wouldn't profess to know much about Middle East policy. However, 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:58.800 do you believe that the connection between Blacks and Jews 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:03.720 is made through the nation of Islam and originates in 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:08.160 the Middle East? In other words, there's there's some lineage there. No, okay, 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:09.040 so explain. 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:12.520 It just had No, I don't. I don't think that. 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:15.720 What you're asking is that if if the the the 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:20.280 any Semitism coming from the black community originates and stems 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:22.160 from the conflict in the Middle East. 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.480 Yeah, that more or less? No, No, No, okay, I 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:27.040 mean I think. 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:31.119 There's Look, there's there's there's overlap, and certainly when it 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:33.800 comes to Lewis Ferrikhn there might be some of that, 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.760 although I don't know, to be honest, I don't know 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:42.359