WEBVTT - Airbus Sees A320 Become the top-Selling Aircraft Ever 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:07.840 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:13.119 This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.840 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:21.040 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:26.040 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:29.639 We're talking about Bowick shares it Boeing once again hitting 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.560 some turbulence, down more than three percent as we speak, 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.440 down more than four percent of its lows today, but 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.879 right now about a three point two percent loss. This 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.960 is after the US Justice Department opened a criminal investigation 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:42.879 into the mid air blowout of a fuselage panel on 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.440 a seven thirty seven Max nine in January, something we've 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:47.800 been talking about when it comes to Boeing all year, and. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.960 Just yesterday, US Transportation Secretary Pete boodage Edge said the 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:56.360 FAA will rigorously assess Bowing after the blowout of that fuselage. Meantime, 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.040 the head of Delta Airlines telling Bloomberg on Sunday Carrol 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.000 that he expects from the delays of the yet to 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.240 be certified seven thirty seven Max ten variant. 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.200 All right now, Boeing shares for the year as we 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.560 said under pressure, they're down about thirty percent year to date. Meantime, 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:11.640 For the little contrast here, folks, the eight hors of 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.319 Airbus tim they're up about eleven percent year today. 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:16.720 Well, you bring up Airbus, Carrol because Boeing stumbles and 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.679 struggles are an opportunity for its loan major competitor, and 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.000 that of course is Airbus. That is the topic of 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.479 a story in the current new issue of Bloomberg Business Week. 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.440 We have Business Week's assistant managing editor, Jim Ellis joining 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.920 us here in the studio. Jim, good to see you. 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.720 Thanks for joining us on this a great story that's 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.679 in the current issue of Bloomberg Business Week. To what 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.959 extent are Boeing's troubles gains for Airbus Because we know 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.640 that these airlines, they don't necessarily have a ton of 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.000 choice when it comes to what they're buying. Their pilots 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.000 are trained on certain equipment, their maintenance crew are trained 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:48.960 on things. 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.760 It's to change aircraft makers is a big deal for 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.360 the airline. But we've gotten to a moment now where 0:01:56.360 --> 0:02:01.160 there's so much, I don't know, a lot of bad news. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.960 There is a lot of questioning about the quality of 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.280 Boeing's equipment right now. That it comes at a particularly 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.560 bad time for Boeing simply because a lot of people 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.320 are starting to think of a lot of airlines are 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.000 starting to think about the next generation of aircraft. And 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:18.280 you know a lot of people say, well, you know 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.120 things are happening. Now, everybody's going to jump and run 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.000 to Boeing. It's very run away from gooing. It's very 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.320 difficult to do simply because you know, as you said, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.839 your crews are trained on that, and you've made these 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:33.360 multi billion dollar investments. But what's at stake here is 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:37.359 the next generation of planes. What happens is that because 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:39.600 in the airline business you can use a piece of 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:45.359 aircraft for decades, you don't make these decisions to change lightly. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.720 So instead it's time to think about the next generation. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.799 And so what air Bus is doing now is they're 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.919 going to have some room to go ahead and say 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:57.720 I'm going to come up with a new plane at 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.119 a time when Boeing is so so you know, sort 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.799 of troubled, and so can consumed with thinking about how 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.960 can it deal with its quality problems? How can it 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.480 also deal with its balance sheet problems? I mean Boeing 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.400 is in the point right now where it doesn't have 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.000 a lot of financial flexibility to build a new plane, 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.720 and so Airbus, however, is probably about a fifty billion 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.640 dollar advantage over it from a dead standpoint, and so 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.480 they can move ahead and start planning for the next 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.919 generation and sort of seal this dominance that they're probably 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:29.360 gonna have with the aircraft business. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.240 Jim tell us how fortunes can change. And I love 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.079 how the story starts, and you guys go back to 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.280 nineteen eighty seven. If we can all remember back then, 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:39.119 it's a while. It's a while, but talk about what 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.520 happened and how that may be set the stage for 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:42.720 where Airbus is today. 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.000 Yeah, I mean what happened is a lot of people 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.000 thought when Airbus decided to bring out its A three 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:53.760 twenty narrow body airline airliner, the people thought, oh, we're 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:55.720 gonna do that. I mean, we've got the seven thirty seven. 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.120 The seven thirty seven was rules the skies, and they 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.720 come out with this a three twenty. They have a 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.360 great party, they have, you know, sort of Prince Charles 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:06.800 at that time with Lady Diana. I mean, it's big, 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:10.200 big deal, fireworks and everything, and everybody says that's not 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.800 going anywhere. You know, you cannot beat them. They and 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.320 at that time Boeing had ten times as many seven 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.760 thirty sevens popping out than A three twenties. Fast forward 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:23.200 to today, and the A three twenty has become the 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.240 best selling commercial aircraft of all time. I mean, that's 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.600 that's a big deal, given that Boeing had commanded that 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.240 market for so long, and the seven thirty seven has 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:38.040 been a major player in aircraft for almost a half century. 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.039 How much of that is the mistakes and problems that 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.119 Boeing has had. How much of is it just folks 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.599 started to kind of really like the A three twenty 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.039 and shit their ordering books. 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.160 A lot of it is that the A three twenty 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.479 just sort of came in with a lot of innovations 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.880 that you know, customers connected with what they call fly 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.880 by wire, that sort of joystick, sort of all electronic cockpit, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.080 the idea that it was a slightly larger plane, which 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.160 then set off this whole thing of continually making these 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.080 planes bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:09.400 I'm measure how big my seed is. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.080 I don't know about you guys, know, it turned out 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.520 that they were in the right place at the right time. 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:18.040 But they are also extremely you know, because they didn't 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.200 have an older model that they were basically just retrofitting, 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:24.080 they could think differently. They sort of took it and 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.440 they ran with it, and now they're in a position 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.599 to think about the next generation of airplanes that can 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:34.039 fly on sustainable fuel, that can do all sorts of 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.880 you know, sort of electronic things in the cockpit, but 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.760 also can take structures of airliners in a different way. 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.920 They're planning a plane now for this next generation that 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.880 has a wing that's shaped like a bird's wing that 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.799 can actually change its shape and flight. And also because 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.720 airports weren't built for these new giant planes that we're 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.400 building now, they're going to have aircraft with the wingtips 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.400 that fold up so you can still put it in 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.680 the same place. But you know, and then we pulled 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.800 away from the onto the Tormac flip the wings out. 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.000 It's I mean, they are basically taking advantage of what 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:11.040 they have right now, which is a lot of money 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.719 as well as not the look of all the stock 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.039 markets saying, oh my god, you're a terrible company, you know, 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:19.800 which is what Boeing has to deal with right now. 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:21.920 Well, just like in the late nineteen eighties when Airbus 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.240 was the upstart against Boeing, now there's another upstart out 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.280 there that should have what, for practical purposes is a 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.599 duopoly between Airbus and Boeing right but may not be forever. 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:34.800 Enter what China. 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:39.520 Has KOMAC, China's China's Aircraft Company, which a lot of 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.880 people in the West don't know because it has only 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.400 so far built planes for Chinese carriers. But the thing 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:51.240 that remember is that Chinese carriers have become major purchasers 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.880 of Western aircraft. Most of the aircraft flown by the 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.799 big three Chinese airlines or you know Boeing or Airbus, 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.479 and however a big percentage of the order books for 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.720 these American and European companies come from Chinese airlines. Now 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.880 China has decided it wants to be a player in 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.080 the aircraft business. It feels like, why are they giving 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.880 all this money to the West. They want to basically 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.520 be able to They want to take that doopoly and 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.240 make it into a triopoly, and that has got to 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.600 be a frightening thing for Boeing especially. 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.760 Can they pull that off? Outside of China in that 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.640 wood regulators in the US and Europe, well, you know, foreseeably, 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.320 uh approve that that's the question. 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.560 And part of that is, you know, safety issue. Part 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:41.200 of that is just engineering issue, and part of that 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.040 is a political issue, you know, in the sense that 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.480 you know, can China build an aircraft that flies? I 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.680 mean they're doing it now. They're doing it for Chinese 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:55.400 airlines and they finally have gotten non Chinese airline though 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.920 it's to bed air you know, that's but then they 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.480 are also marketing it now to West aircraft and they 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.160 will find some sales there. But the issue becomes one 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.280 of whether they want to take more of their own 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.120 cares and sort of persuade them to buy Chinese And 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.000 if they do that, that takes away a lot of 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.440 the sort of extra stuff in the art of books 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.280 of the Western aircraft makers. 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.200 I think what's so interesting too is you don't have 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.720 Airbus coming out and being like snap, you know, we've 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.160 got this all down because a three. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.720 Eighty, right, and they understand that You've got to be 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.240 very careful to sort of make fun of somebody else 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.199 having a problem, because people will just turn it around 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.439 and say, well, you've screwed up before you made the 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:39.840 A three eighty, which sounded like a great plane. You know, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.520 passengers loved it, double decker, it's really cool. The issue 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.480 was it was too late. It came to the market 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.640 at a time when people decided, well, when airlines decided, 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.959 we don't need a five hundred, five hundred and fifty 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.959 seed aircraft to take people back and forth. Instead, we 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.200 want smaller aircraft that can take people on what they 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.400 call long thin routes. Fuel efficiency, that's it, yea and 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.199 four engines that you know, that plane had four engines. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.880 That's a lot of fuel. And so instead two engine 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.280 is what people want in wide bodies nowadays. And so 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.040 that plane lost money. 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.280 That brings us back to the narrow body seven thirty 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.280 seven A three twenty, which is certainly the bulk of 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:17.679 the market. 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.960 Yeah, that's the workhords share of the airline markets where 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.280 eighty percent of the planes go. And so every you 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.080 will either succeed or fail based on how you do 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.760 in the narrow body market. And the reason that Airbus 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.160 was able to sustain basically a losing program in the 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.199 A three eighty, you know that ed years before they 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.480 had planned it to end and didn't make any money 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:42.520 for them in the long haul, is because they made 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.920 so much money on the A three twenty. Because the 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.680 narrow body market is the bread and butter of flying, 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.160 and if they can figure out a way to command 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.280 the next generation of those and not split that market 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.680 with Boeing, then they could have dominance of that market 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:57.720 for years to come. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.679 At the same time, Boeing can think about its way 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.640 out of this is to be dominant in that in 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:03.319 kind of the next wave as well. Right well, that's 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:05.240 of the talent and the engineers. 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.360 And that's also the counterintuitive thing. A lot of people say, 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.640 why should Boying just say, you know, I'm done, I'm done. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.240 You know what, maybe Boying can say, I don't care 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.120 that I don't really have the money to pursue a program. 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.240 Maybe I should you go ahead and do it now 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:21.640 because I don't have that big of an order book. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.199 It's very difficult for Airbusts to do anything very quickly, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.839 simply because it's sold out in its current eight three 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.679 twenties all the way through this decade into the next decade. 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.880 It's so popular, great visibility, but it also kind of hands. 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.800 It handcuts you, because basically you can't walk away from 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:37.559 a winner. 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.680 Great stuff, great history into kind of understanding what really 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.960 is a duopoly when it comes to airplanes. Jim ellis, 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.440 as always, we so appreciate it, Assistant Managing editor our 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:49.319 Bloomberg Business Week. Right here in studio, you're. 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.720 Listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Can't Just Live 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:56.200 weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen on Apple, 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.840 card Play and and Brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:03.000 app or one just love I've on YouTube. 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.880 Folks, We've pretty much done with the earnings. We had 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.520 a little bit of names trickling out last week, but 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.920 you might recall from the earnings wrap up how Meta 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.240 is still the king of digital advertising. The social media 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.520 giant overcame grim expectations for its advertising business, in part 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.520 due to high spending by China based advertisers and AI 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.040 generated video content. Users on apps such as Facebook and 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.360 Instagram spend twenty five percent more time watching videos. So 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.520 it's a thing Tim as. 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.240 Anyone who uses any of these apps, of course, it's 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.320 a thing well. Companies including Meta platforms, Amazon, Alphabet and 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.000 many more competing big time when it comes to the space. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.920 Our next guest has a unique window into the digital 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.000 ads space. So let's get to the interview with us. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.160 As Mark Zagorski, CEO of the publicly held double Verify, 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.920 it's a five point five billion dollar market cap company 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.360 does application software and digital media measurement. Customers of the company, Carol, 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.319 include a who's who of corporate America. You got Colgate, Palm, Olive, Ford, 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:01.120 Mandoli's Netflix, TikTok Twitter, and that's a cute according to 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:02.680 the Bloomberg supply chain function. 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.160 Mark, So great to have you here with us. First step, 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.520 so everyone understands your chief business kind of lay it 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.800 out for us because you do work with who's who 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:10.920 of corporate America. 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.240 Yeah, so it's great being here. As you noted, we 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:17.200 work with some of the biggest brands on the planet, 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.080 and what we do is we help them ensure that 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.520 their ads spend is delivered in a brand safe environment, 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.160 that it's actually viewable by human and it's not fraud, 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.000 and that those transactions are secure. So think of us 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.319 as kind of advertising security software. But we see across 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:37.079 social across the open web, across mobile, across connected television. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.000 If there's someplace that has ads, we're measuring or verifying 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:41.520 across it. 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:43.760 How do you know if something is brand safe or not? 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.600 So we look at a lot of different factors. So 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.040 if it's video, we can look at the actual video 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.320 that's running. We can listen to the audio track and 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.400 analyze it. We can look at the context or metadata 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.120 around it. So we basically look at all of different 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.800 contextual clues that we see, and we do this in 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.360 real time, and we're able to report back to our 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.719 advertisers whether or not their ads are running environments that 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.960 are aligned with what they want their brand to represent. 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.920 A lot mark has been made over the past year 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.880 or so about what's happened to the company formerly known 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.280 as Twitter X of course, and the way that the 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.560 content on the platform has changed. Is X to you 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.360 still considered brand safe? Really? 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.160 You know, we look across all the different social platforms 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:36.360 and you know, we make a call. We categorize content. 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.000 It's up to our advertisers to determine whether or not 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.439 that content fits what they consider suitable or safe. 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:44.920 Does it seem like the companies are now saying it's 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:46.720 less safe than it previously was. 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.160 We have seen more advertisers move away from Twitter than 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:55.240 move toward it or X, but there are still advertisers 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.560 who are putting a hefty amount of spend against it. 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.640 It's about really threading that needle and X has worked 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.280 with us in a really positive way and saying, you know, 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.599 let's give the advertisers to tools to be able to 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.560 slice andize the content the way they want it. 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:10.520 Well, in terms of platforms that are out there, we 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:12.959 mentioned meta, but you know you got alphabet. Where is 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.880 it that you kind of see clients most likely to 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:21.560 put out some kind of a digital ad if you will, 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.000 and link it to their brand obviously. 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.800 Yeah, so we see social and I think you just 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.000 mentioned earlier video social video is really eating up the 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.600 Internet right now. About seventy percent of social engagement now 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.840 is with video short form things like reels, YouTube, shorts, TikTok. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.200 They're exploding. They're eating up a significant portion of consumer 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.240 time as we know, and that means that's where advertisers 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.400 are going. So, you know, we try to verify all transactions, 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.360 whether they're open web social against CTV, but we're seeing 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.440 more and more of those advertiser dollars and you know 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:02.760 heading towards you know, short form social video like TikTok. Yes, yeah, 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.480 TikTok's TikTok created the revolution, but reels and shorts are 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.200 really part of it as well now. 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.280 But I do wonder just to follow up though, on 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.160 what Tim brought up about some of the concerns around 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.480 X and whether it's TikTok. You know, between certainly US 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.640 China relations that these companies, increasingly Chinese based companies are 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:26.000 on regulators and policymakers here in the US on their radar. 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.240 Do you continue to expect that to kind of play 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.600 out here and what does that mean then in terms 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.720 of some of your clients where they're going to choose 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:34.760 to kind of put their ads. 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.080 Yeah, I mean there's no doubt that advertisers want to 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.600 be where consumers are, right, and if consumers can't go 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.920 to one platform, they're going to go to another. Consumers 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.040 love short form video, So if for some reason a 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:52.800 platform loses favor because of government regulations or any other reason, 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.840 the advertisers are going to chase those consumers. So you 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.240 know the beneficiaries of a TikTok. You know, ban in 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.520 this country here is going to be Facebook and Google, 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:01.960 no doubt. 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:07.160 Do you think it's realistic that the US could possibly 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.480 force ByteDance to divest. 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.560 That that's a question above my pay grade. I would 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.240 never want to try to discern on what's going. 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:16.520 But is it on your radar? Like this is a 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.040 real risk to not just to your business, but to 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:20.960 the space. 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.160 I mean, I think, you know, for the first time, 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.040 this is probably getting a bit more serious than it 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:30.080 has been in the past. Advertisers are pretty nimble though, 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.440 you know, if anything happens on one platform, the beauty 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.200 of digital is they can move very quickly to another platform. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.520 I mean, they're looking for engagement, and they're looking for 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:42.400 deep engagement, and social video provides that no matter where. 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.080 It is, where's the best engagement right now? 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.200 You know, we you know, we don't look at kind 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.880 of time spent on each platform, but we know where 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.800 dollars are being spent, and dollars are being spent, you know, 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.520 pretty heavily across all the three that I mentioned in 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:02.520 short form video, so across across YouTube, shorts, and across 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:03.480 TikTok right now. 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:05.200 So the other another way to ask that question is 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.080 who who's struggling right now? Where's where's the money not going? 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.480 I think you're seeing more and more dollars and move 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.560 away from open web into more walled gardens, more social 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.560 into retail media networks, which are really benefiting right now. 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:27.560 So you know, powered by folks like Amazon, Walmart, Kroger, Macy's. 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.399 This is an entirely new emerging area where advertisers, you know, 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.960 love the data that those retail media networks produce and 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.000 they're able to see kind of a really strong closed 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:38.680 loop performance environment. 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:40.480 What's top of mine is we get ready for the 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.720 November election cycle. I mean, it's often running and we 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.679 know it's underway, and I mean I'm curious about what 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.479 is the balance if there is one among a brand, 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.280 a company with high recognition that's looking for the clicks 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.760 right in terms of people viewing their ad but at 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.040 the same time not necessarily wanting to be next to 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.560 questionable content or you know, content that's going to either 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.560 amplify potentially things that they would rather not be associated with. 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:09.760 Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, you know, political 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:14.000 season always brings up a relatively challenging environment for advertisers. 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.640 They certainly want to be around where people are engaged. 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:21.040 People are engaged with political content. There's no doubt about it. However, 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.720 there's definitely topics that they don't want to be associated with. 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.040 And you know as recently as earlier this year, between 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.680 January and February, we saw a twenty two percent increase 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:36.600 in hate speech, for example, and that's just starting off 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.239 the year. So we know as the campaign gets more 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.080 and more cted up, we're going to see more instances 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.679 of what we call inflammatory news and political content, and 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:50.480 that's things like cyber bulleying, it's things like hate speech 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:55.160 and misinformation disinformation, So that will heat up, and hopefully 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.159 what we're able to do is give advertisers the ability 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.160 to avoid some of the content that they don't want 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.920 to be around, but still be part of the news engagement, 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.400 still be part of the stuff that that folks think 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:12.760 is important without having to avoid news or relevant content altogether. 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.439 Yeah, it's complicated, hate listen, Mark, I feel like we 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:17.719 covered a lot of ground but also scratched the surface 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.679 in some way. So hopefully you'll come back soon. Mark Sigurski, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.040 CEO of the publicly held company double Verify, stuck by 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.160 the way down about twelve percent so far year to date, 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.639 by trending a little bit higher in today's session. 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.359 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.239 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.320 Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.639 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:49.800 New York station just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.119 Reddit disclosing for their details of what is set to 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.320 be one of the year's biggest IPOs, with the company 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.520 and some existing shareholders seeking to raise as much as 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.360 seven hundred and forty eight million dollars. 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:02.840 And Reddit and the holders are planning to sell twenty 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.040 two million shares for about thirty one to thirty four 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.840 dollars each. That's what the social media platform said in 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.920 a filing today. About fifteen point three million of those 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:12.680 shares will be sold by the company and the rest 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.200 by investors who are Reddit employees. 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.080 It's been quite a slog though, to get to this point, 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.159 so let's get to it. And keep in mind that 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.000 what Tim just laid out the top of at the 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.520