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Speaker 1: Welcome to Backwoods University, a place where we focus on wildlife,

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Speaker 1: wild places and the people who dedicate their lives to

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Speaker 1: conserving both. Big shout out to onex Hunt for their

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Speaker 1: support of this podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, Lake Pickle, and.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, Man, the stars line up just right

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Speaker 1: as y'all have heard me say before. I love Man,

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Speaker 1: I love spring turkey hunting. Everything about it, the bird,

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Speaker 1: the habitat. It's magical top to bottom. And on this

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Speaker 1: episode we're going to dive into one of the newest,

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Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating, and honestly one of the

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Speaker 1: most uncharted areas of turkey research and biology. And without

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Speaker 1: my planning to do so, it just so happens to

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Speaker 1: line up so very perfectly with what we just learned

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Speaker 1: about wild turkey conservation just a few episodes back with

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Speaker 1: mister Benning Harry.

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Speaker 2: Y'all see what I mean. Let's dive in.

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Speaker 1: This past Saturday was Youth Turkey Opener here in Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: and I had an eager young turkey hunter lined up

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Speaker 1: to take to the spring Woods, which meant in the

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Speaker 1: days leading up I needed to find a turkey to hunt. Now,

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Speaker 1: this part of the process is honestly one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite parts of the whole game. The scouting, the very

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Speaker 1: first pieces of the puzzle, the added bonus of being

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Speaker 1: able to break day in the woods early, and if

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Speaker 1: you're lucky, you get to hear a tall timber Gabriel

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Speaker 1: sound off from his heavenly perch. I'd slipped out to

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Speaker 1: this place Monday morning, and I'd heard what I believed

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Speaker 1: to be three to four gobbling turkeys together in one wad,

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Speaker 1: along with a gaggle of hens. Now it is important

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Speaker 1: to note that wads of turkeys like this are very normal.

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Speaker 1: That's early in the spring. With the opener coming up

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Speaker 1: on Saturday, I wanted to slip out there one more

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Speaker 1: time early Friday morning and see if I could put

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Speaker 1: ears on these turkeys one more time, to see if

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Speaker 1: they were still hanging out in the general area, and

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Speaker 1: to get any more information I could.

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Speaker 2: On where they wanted to be.

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Speaker 1: So there I was watching the dim morning light start

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Speaker 1: to pour over this fresh cutover and onto the timber

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Speaker 1: on the other side where I expected the turkeys to be.

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Speaker 1: As the daylight began to grow, songbirds began to sing,

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Speaker 1: bard owls began to state their claim across the land.

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Speaker 1: The woods were coming alive, and then in eruption took

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Speaker 1: place turkeys gobbling, hen's cackling, and a symphony that seemed

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Speaker 1: unplanned and in perfect harmony, all at the same time.

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Speaker 1: I sat there, leaned up against a tree from my

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Speaker 1: side of the cutover, and just smiled. Right where I

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Speaker 1: left them, I thought to myself.

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Speaker 2: Went out of seemingly nowhere.

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Speaker 1: A gobbler sounded off out of the same chunk of

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Speaker 1: woods that I was sitting in. Now he was still

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Speaker 1: around two hundred and two hundred and fifty yards away,

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Speaker 1: but I still wasn't expecting any turkeys to be roosted

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Speaker 1: in the block of woods that I was in. Not

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Speaker 1: that they could be. It was just that the other

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Speaker 1: side had a big creek running through it, which is

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Speaker 1: a textbook ingredient of places where turkeys love to roost,

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Speaker 1: and also, like I stated earlier, this time of year,

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Speaker 1: they tend to be all in a watt.

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Speaker 2: He gobbled again.

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Speaker 1: Which confirmed I had not miscoursed him, and he was

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Speaker 1: indeed roosted away from the rest of the wad and

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Speaker 1: in the same woods with me. There was nothing I

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Speaker 1: could do but lean into my tree and see how

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Speaker 1: this unfolded, which is where this video clip I'm about

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Speaker 1: to share with you comes in. I wanted to capture

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Speaker 1: some of the audio of all these turkeys gobbling. I

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Speaker 1: was also unsure of what this turkey roosted close to

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Speaker 1: me was gonna do, so I started recording video on

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Speaker 1: my phone and put it in my bioe pouch. If

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Speaker 1: you couldn't tell from the volume of that gobble, this

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Speaker 1: turkey was now much closer than two hundred and fifty yards.

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Speaker 1: He was more like ninety two one hundred yards. This

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Speaker 1: turkey had somehow gotten separated from the rest of the wad,

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Speaker 1: and now he had flown out into the cutover and again,

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Speaker 1: walking gobbling and strutting across back towards all the other

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Speaker 1: gobbling turkeys in the woods on the other side.

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Speaker 2: And the path he chose to take was angling right

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Speaker 2: by me.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just out there sitting against a tree in

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Speaker 1: green pants and a T shirt. I did my best

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Speaker 1: to blend into the tree I was leaned against, and

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Speaker 1: I watched him make his way all across there and

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Speaker 1: into the woods back with all his friends.

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Speaker 3: Is the day before youth season in Mississippi, and I'm

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Speaker 3: taking a young and out tomorrow. So I came out

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Speaker 3: here to scout because I'd heard some turkeys roosted in

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Speaker 3: this area, so I was expecting slash, hoping to get

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Speaker 3: ears on them. I was not expecting the experience I

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Speaker 3: ended up having made me wish today was the opening

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Speaker 3: day of youth Man. That was about as killable of

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Speaker 3: a turkey as you could ever ask for. You don't

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Speaker 3: typically find long beards by themselves on March sixth, but

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Speaker 3: he was. What happened ended up happened once the wade

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Speaker 3: of turkeys that I had had been hearing was roosted

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Speaker 3: across here. You could hear them goblin and ye opening

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Speaker 3: and carry it on the other side. Somehow this guy

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Speaker 3: got separated and was goblin on his own, And when

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Speaker 3: he finally came out into this open and he goblin

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Speaker 3: and strutted, but he was on a mission to get

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Speaker 3: to those other turkeys.

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Speaker 1: That was way cool, man.

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Speaker 2: I love spring. That was worth waking up for it. There.

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Speaker 1: That next morning, my youth hunter and I were right

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Speaker 1: back in there. We started setting up right near to

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Speaker 1: where I had that crazy scouting incident in the morning

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Speaker 1: before the morning started with the same chaotic chorus off yelping, cutting,

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Speaker 1: and gobbling. However, this morning, all of the turkeys were

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Speaker 1: roosted on the other side, no loan gobblers. I had

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Speaker 1: a sneaking suspicion that this might be the case. However,

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Speaker 1: I elected to play it safe in not risk crossing

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Speaker 1: that log in to b recovered cutover in the dark

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Speaker 1: and risk making two truckloads of noise. After hearing the

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Speaker 1: turkeys fly down, they remained vocal enough that I could

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Speaker 1: tell they drifted away from the edge of the cutover

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Speaker 1: and deeper into the woods. It was at this time

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Speaker 1: that I felt confident that we could cross the cutover

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Speaker 1: and get into the same woods that they were in.

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Speaker 1: We identified a spot that would give us the most

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Speaker 1: covered across and also had a small ribbon of trees

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Speaker 1: left on it. It wasn't much for hiding us walking

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Speaker 1: across there, but it was enough.

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Speaker 2: It was going to have to be.

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Speaker 1: I owed one time before we made our trek, and

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Speaker 1: two turkeys answered me. Deep in the woods on the

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Speaker 1: other side, it.

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Speaker 2: Was time to move.

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Speaker 1: We started walking as quickly and quietly as we could

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Speaker 1: until we finally made.

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Speaker 2: It to the other side.

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Speaker 1: These woods were of different composition than the woods we

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Speaker 1: had walked from. Although separated by nothing but a few

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Speaker 1: hundred yards, these were lowlands that led into a big

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Speaker 1: creek bottom, and the ground was covered in Chinese privet.

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Speaker 1: If you've ever had any dealings with Chinese privet, then

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Speaker 1: you probably had the same reaction when you heard me

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Speaker 1: say it as I did when I saw it. Ugh.

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Speaker 1: It's a highly problematic invasive plant, and it's a real

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Speaker 1: problem in the southeastern United States. It's a small, slender

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Speaker 1: shrub that is dense with branches and small green leaves. Now,

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Speaker 1: on one hand, it was going to give us some

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Speaker 1: cover to move, but on the other hand, finding a

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Speaker 1: spot to set up for success was going to be

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Speaker 1: extremely difficult. But the turkeys were in there, so we didn't.

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Speaker 2: Really have a choice.

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Speaker 1: We slipped through the maze of privet vines and thin

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Speaker 1: trunk trees until we hit a noticeable change in the woods.

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Speaker 1: The big creek was now in view and on both sides,

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Speaker 1: for about thirty yards was a buffer strip of more

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Speaker 1: open ground and larger oak trees. It wasn't perfect, but

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Speaker 1: it was the best opportunity for a setup that I

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Speaker 1: had seen so far. We sat down next to a

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Speaker 1: large fallen oak tree, which provided us a great cover.

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Speaker 1: I told my young hunter that we would sit here

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Speaker 1: and call for a bit. Even if we didn't get

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Speaker 1: an answer, this area was worth spending some time in.

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Speaker 2: We got settled in.

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Speaker 1: And I pulled out my slate call. I let out

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Speaker 1: two soft clubs ucks and a seven note yelp. I

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Speaker 1: heard the sound of my calling ring down the creek.

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Speaker 1: Seconds went by, and I do mean seconds, probably less

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Speaker 1: than thirty of them, when the unmistakable noise of a

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Speaker 1: turkey drum fell across my ears. I could feel the

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Speaker 1: hair on my neck stand up and my heart beat increase.

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking to myself, surely not. We just sat down.

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Speaker 1: I decided it was not worth risking exciting my young

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Speaker 1: hunter over a false alarm, and I wanted to double

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Speaker 1: check and see if I heard it again. In the

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Speaker 1: few seconds that had passed by since I heard it,

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Speaker 1: I had already began to doubt whether or not it

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Speaker 1: was real. A few more seconds went by and I

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Speaker 1: heard it again. This time it was undeniable. I was

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Speaker 1: just about to whisper to let my hunter know, when

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Speaker 1: all of the sudden, a hen started yelping loudly, and

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Speaker 1: it was quickly answered by two thundering gobbles. They were

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Speaker 1: no more than fifty yards away. We just couldn't see

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Speaker 1: them due to the sea of privet. The hen started

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Speaker 1: yelping louder. I answered her back. She yelped again. The

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Speaker 1: longbeard's gobbled again, and they were steadily getting closer. I

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Speaker 1: whispered across to get ready and that we would see

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Speaker 1: them at any second. The drumming became so loud that

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Speaker 1: I felt like I could hear it in syllables. I

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Speaker 1: was burning my eyes through the woods trying to catch

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Speaker 1: a glimpse, when finally I caught movement.

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Speaker 2: It was a hen.

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Speaker 1: She was twenty five yards away, yelping and looking. Shortly after,

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Speaker 1: I saw a second hen, and all the while I'm

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Speaker 1: still hearing drumming. I thought for sure, at any second

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Speaker 1: one of them would pop up. We waited for what

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Speaker 1: seemed like an eternity, watching the hens, constantly hearing drumming,

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Speaker 1: when all of a sudden, one of the hens picked

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Speaker 1: up and flew right over our heads and landed on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the creek, just thirty yards away,

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Speaker 1: and went back to yelping. The second hen followed suit.

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Speaker 1: Now we had hens directly to our right, yelping on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the creek, and the gobblers drumming

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Speaker 1: to our left. I thought that this was going to

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Speaker 1: work out perfectly. Surely they will follow where the hens went,

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Speaker 1: to my dismay. Shortly after, I finally got a glimpse

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Speaker 1: of the longbeards. They were crossing and headed to the creek,

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Speaker 1: except they didn't take the same path as the hens.

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Speaker 1: They were about forty five yards and behind privet. They

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Speaker 1: crossed a small opening, but only gave us about one

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Speaker 1: to two seconds before disappearing again.

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Speaker 2: All fell quiet.

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Speaker 1: I yelped softly, and I heard a drum. These turkeys

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Speaker 1: had been in gun range for over ten minutes now

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Speaker 1: without a solid shot opportunity, and we were trying to

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Speaker 1: still pull it off before they inevitably crossed the creek

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Speaker 1: to go to their hens and walked out of our lives.

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Speaker 1: I waited a few moments, and I yelped again, and

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Speaker 1: again they drummed, but I still couldn't see them. More

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Speaker 1: minutes went by, and I finally caught sight of one

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Speaker 1: of them. They were now sixty five yards away and

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Speaker 1: standing right on the creek edge. One strutted one more

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Speaker 1: time while the other looked around. They both hopped and

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Speaker 1: glided across the creek, gobbled, and.

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Speaker 2: Went to their hens.

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Speaker 1: An incredible hunt, a fun hunt, but man, I sure

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Speaker 1: wanted to see that youth hunter that I was with

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Speaker 1: shoot one of those gobblers. Thankfully, he was in good spirits,

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Speaker 1: and we have full plans to pursue those birds again

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Speaker 1: because thankfully they didn't spook.

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Speaker 2: So all is well.

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Speaker 1: You may be asking yourself at this point, why is

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Speaker 1: this guy sharing this story? Well, the reason's really simple.

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Speaker 1: I love turkey hunting.

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Speaker 2: A whole lot.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I think a lot of listeners to this

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Speaker 1: podcast feed love turkey hunting a lot as well, and

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Speaker 1: appreciate a good turkey story, even if it doesn't end

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Speaker 1: with one getting carried out over someone's shoulder. But I

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Speaker 1: do think a lot of the listeners to this podcast

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Speaker 1: feed enjoy hearing about a topic that directly impacts the

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Speaker 1: future of turkeys getting carried out over someone's shoulder.

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Speaker 2: Did that even make sense?

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Speaker 1: I've been told sometimes I try to get too cute

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Speaker 1: with my words and sentences and it just ends up

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Speaker 1: being hard to follow.

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Speaker 2: Basically, what I'm saying is.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of y'all care about the future

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Speaker 1: of turkeys and turkey hunting, and so does the guest

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Speaker 1: on today's show, Doctor Mike Chamberlain, the infamous wild turkey doc.

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Speaker 1: The man is straight up famous in the world of

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Speaker 1: wild turkey science and research, and in this episode we're

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Speaker 1: talking about one of his newest and honestly one of

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Speaker 1: his most fascinating endeavors. And quick disclaimer. When we scheduled

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Speaker 1: this interview, I fully expected us to get some really

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Speaker 1: cool and fascinating information. What I did not expect was

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Speaker 1: how perfectly all this would line up with the Saving

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Speaker 1: Wild Turkeys episode we recently did with mister Benny Herring.

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Speaker 2: Y'all will see what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Where did the idea come from to do the turkey

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Speaker 1: DNA project that you're doing now?

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Speaker 4: Yes, so, basically I was collaborating with Phil of Reskie

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Speaker 4: at University of Texas at El Paso on some turkey

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Speaker 4: genetic irrespective of wild turkey DNA, We're doing a lot

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Speaker 4: of work with using eggshell membranes from hatched clutches to

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Speaker 4: look at the sex of the polt, to look at

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Speaker 4: relatedness within the clutches, identifying instances of where there's multi paternity,

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Speaker 4: where you have more than one time, that's fertilizing clutches.

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Speaker 4: And basically I had tapped into fills knowledge, and I

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Speaker 4: was familiar with duck DNA, you know, the Sister or

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Speaker 4: Brother project, and I knew kind of how they were

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Speaker 4: doing that project, you know, citizen science driven using duck hunters.

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Speaker 4: And I saw a social media post with an odd

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Speaker 4: looking turkey in it, and there were all these statements

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Speaker 4: in the social media post about it. It's a domestic bird,

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Speaker 4: it's this, it's that, like definitive statements.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 4: And I've always been interested in color phases of wild

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Speaker 4: turkeys and I have long wanted to do a range

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Speaker 4: wide genetic study since two thousand and two when the

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Speaker 4: last one was done. This is something I've wanted to do,

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Speaker 4: and I didn't have the vehicle to do it. And

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Speaker 4: it hit me on Super Bowl Sunday last year. I

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Speaker 4: texted Phil and I said, let me ask you a question.

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Speaker 4: I was like, if I got you a piece of

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Speaker 4: tissue like you do for ducks, like a tongue or

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Speaker 4: a piece of brast or whatever, could you tell me

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Speaker 4: if it's a wild bird or not. And he one

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Speaker 4: hundred percent. I was like, do you have five minutes

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Speaker 4: for a call? And that took two hours. We got

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Speaker 4: on the phone and no alcohol was involved. We got

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Speaker 4: on the phone and it came around to what if

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Speaker 4: we did wild turkey DNA, like we've done duck DNA. Well,

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Speaker 4: this was you know, this was February and turkey seasons

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Speaker 4: right around the corner. So I had two options. I

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Speaker 4: could try to put together a huge project right out

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Speaker 4: of the box evaluating range wide genetics. But I feared

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Speaker 4: if I did that, I'd fail, And so we decided

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Speaker 4: to start with the odd plumage turkeys and we figured, okay,

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Speaker 4: we can get enough funding together to maybe process seventy

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Speaker 4: five samples. Let's start a project call wild Turkey DNA,

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Speaker 4: and let's ask connors to send us samples if they

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Speaker 4: kill a weird looking turkey, no kidding. The next day

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Speaker 4: was Monday. I had a cooperative framework outlined. I called

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Speaker 4: a friend who runs a private foundation to see if

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Speaker 4: they would provide some funding. I reached out to NWTF

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Speaker 4: leadership asked if they would provide some funding, do you

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Speaker 4: agree to provide some funding? I gave some funding through

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Speaker 4: the Wild Turkey Lab at the University of Georgia and

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Speaker 4: within two weeks we had a logo and we had

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Speaker 4: a project launched.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it came.

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Speaker 4: Together really quickly, and to be honest with you, man,

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Speaker 4: I never expected it. We were overwhelmed with samples. We

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Speaker 4: had to turn away hundreds of samples that hunters reached

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Speaker 4: out to us, and we just didn't have the resources

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Speaker 4: to process all of the data. And it was very

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Speaker 4: humbling to see the Turkey hunting community be that interested

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Speaker 4: in this and it allowed me, frankly, it allowed us,

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Speaker 4: I say me, It allowed us to capture some attention,

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Speaker 4: generated some buzz, some publicity, and get our legs under

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Speaker 4: us to launch this broader effort this year. And we

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Speaker 4: you know, DU already had this the infrastructure in case

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Speaker 4: they knew how to do this. We just had to

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Speaker 4: model it similarly, and we had to we had to

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Speaker 4: do some things differently for a while Turkey DNA, but

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Speaker 4: being able to rely on DU's expertise and history was

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Speaker 4: super cool. And to be able to link NWTF with

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Speaker 4: DU in a partnership that I thought was really charismatic

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Speaker 4: and cool. And yeah, it's exploded since then and this convention.

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Speaker 4: I have been asked ten thousand questions about this project,

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Speaker 4: and that is so cool to me that turkey hunters

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Speaker 4: see value at it.

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Speaker 1: I remember the first time hearing about a quote color

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Speaker 1: phase turkey getting killed close to where I grew up.

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Speaker 1: It was a smoke phase and it happened when I

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Speaker 1: was in high school, and the news of that swept

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Speaker 1: across Rankin County, Mississippi, like Piland covering a windshield in March.

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Speaker 1: Many of you out there have probably had similar experiences.

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Speaker 1: But have you ever thought to wonder what causes a

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Speaker 1: turkey to exhibit these unorthodox colors? What does it mean?

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Speaker 1: What are the implications? Is there a bigger story here?

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Speaker 1: I think there might be.

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Speaker 4: To be honest with you, some of the things that

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Speaker 4: we observed before we ever started the project is ultimately

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Speaker 4: where I wanted this to go, and I'll explain. So,

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Speaker 4: we were seeing and are seeing instances in some of

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Speaker 4: our populations that were capturing birds and marking birds of

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Speaker 4: very low genetic diversity.

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Speaker 1: And when you get very low.

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Speaker 4: Genetic diversity, the population is less resilient. You see higher

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Speaker 4: inbreeding potential, and when you see higher inbreeding potential, there's

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Speaker 4: reproductive consequences to that when you start seeing low genetic

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Speaker 4: diversity there, you would expect birds to be less productive.

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Speaker 4: And as you know, throughout broad areas of the southeast

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Speaker 4: and Midwest we've seen ongoing population declines for many years.

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Speaker 1: Well now back up, most everybody knows that concern around

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Speaker 1: Turkey population declines have been a big typic of discussion

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Speaker 1: in recent years. But are we about to find out

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Speaker 1: that this Turkey DNA project might provide some answers there.

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Speaker 1: If so, this is an even bigger story than I thought.

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Speaker 4: I get paid to turn stones. That's what I get

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Speaker 4: paid to do as a researcher. And the way I

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Speaker 4: looked at this is if this is a stone I

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Speaker 4: can turn that offers at least a even just a

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Speaker 4: tiny partial explanation for some of the issues we've seen,

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Speaker 4: then it's worth turning the stone. And so as we've

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Speaker 4: collected more data, we are continuing to see these perplexing

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Speaker 4: signatures in some of our population.

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Speaker 1: Because what I had to do when.

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Speaker 4: We started getting these odd plumage bird samples, we don't

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Speaker 4: know what they are. We have to have comparatiss and right,

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Speaker 4: so we have to have reference samples. So all the

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Speaker 4: birds my trapping crews have caught all the birds that

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Speaker 4: have been caught in Louisiana or Tennessee or Kentucky by

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Speaker 4: colleagues Nebraska. I started reaching out to colleagues in the

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Speaker 4: same space and saying, Hey, could I borrow your samples?

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Speaker 4: You could I take one drop of blood from your

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Speaker 4: vials that are frozen or you already analyzed yours. Can

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Speaker 4: I use what you found because you're using the same

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Speaker 4: techniques we are. And I built a large reference set

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Speaker 4: and that allowed us to start identifying, Okay, that's a

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Speaker 4: bird that looks odd, but it's one hundred percent wild.

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Speaker 4: And so now what we're doing is we're actually isolating

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Speaker 4: the genes that control plumage color so that we can

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Speaker 4: nail down how did this bird get to look like

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Speaker 4: this particularly, And there's there's several routes. You can get

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Speaker 4: an odd looking turkey. You can you can get a

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Speaker 4: wild bird that's one hundred percent wild that has certain traits,

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Speaker 4: you know, certain gene sequences, combinations. You can have a

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Speaker 4: wild bird that crosses with a domestic bird, or you

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Speaker 4: could have a wild bird that either crosses with a

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Speaker 4: heritage turkey, which is a turkey that's created by breeding

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Speaker 4: domestic tests to wild birds, or you could just have

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Speaker 4: a heritage turkey that escapes somebody's.

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Speaker 1: Properties, somebody's tractors, supply it gets shot by a hunter.

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Speaker 4: And we've seen all of that. We've seen all of

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Speaker 4: that and the results, and now we're trying to understand

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Speaker 4: what are the consequences of that. When you when you

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Speaker 4: have these recessive or these odd traits in a population,

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Speaker 4: particularly if they're one hundred, if they're fully wild birds,

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Speaker 4: and they're expressing these genes in this way through this

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Speaker 4: odd plumage, what does that mean? Is it a problem?

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Speaker 4: Is it linked to low diversity? Is it linked to inbreeding?

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Speaker 4: And that's where we're now headed because and you'll see

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Speaker 4: this in the upcoming weeks, we are going to start

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Speaker 4: sharing some results from birds that quite frankly, have been

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Speaker 4: have stumped us.

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Speaker 1: This is so fascinating to me, especially all the different

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Speaker 1: routes in which a turkey can take to end up

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Speaker 1: with an odd color phase.

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Speaker 2: But what does it mean? If anything?

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Speaker 1: I feel like we've just scratched the surface here and

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Speaker 1: there's a whole lot more to find out. And heads up,

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Speaker 1: Remember how I've been saying that the stars lined up

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Speaker 1: just right on this one. And this pairs up so

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Speaker 1: well with our episode with mister Benny Herring and how

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Speaker 1: we relocated turkeys. Well, we're about to find out why.

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Speaker 4: When social media exploded, that's when you started seeing really

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Speaker 4: weird looking turkeys pop up, and they were getting a

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Speaker 4: lot of attention. And I would look at some of

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Speaker 4: those and go, I'm not convinced that's a wild turkey.

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Speaker 4: And and I'll and I'm not gonna let the cat

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Speaker 4: out of the bag. But some of the birds that

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Speaker 4: were submitted this year or last year, I one hundred

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Speaker 4: percent said that is not a wild turkey. And Katie

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Speaker 4: would send me the pictures and say, do we want

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Speaker 4: a sample from this bird? Because that's how it worked,

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Speaker 4: and I would respond to her and go, yeah, we

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Speaker 4: definitely want one. I even responded by emails several times

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Speaker 4: said I pretty much know what that is, but let's

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Speaker 4: get a sample.

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Speaker 1: I've been wrong about. Oh there's something that you thought

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Speaker 1: were not Wow, one hundred percent, and that stuff's going

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Speaker 1: to come out pretty soon. Wow one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: They were birds that were submitted that I thought there's

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Speaker 4: no way that's a wild turkey. And they are fully wild,

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Speaker 4: one hundred percent wild.

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Speaker 1: That's crazy, yep.

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Speaker 4: And what we figured out is there's multiple ways to get.

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Speaker 1: A turkey to look the same.

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Speaker 4: In other words, there's multiple routes to get two birds

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Speaker 4: that look the same that have a different background or origin.

438
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 4: And so it's because of the genes that were isolating

439
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 4: that control plumage. And so I didn't know any of that.

440
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 4: I was ignorant to all of that. And to you know,

441
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 4: quote phill of Rescue, we talk about this all the time.

442
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 4: He's like, turkey genetics are so much more complex than

443
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 4: duct genetics that it really just kind of blows your mind.

444
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 4: And part of that is traced back to our restoration activities.

445
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 4: When we were translocating birds all over North America. We

446
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 4: were introducing novel genetics into populations through our trap and

447
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 4: transports activities. And what we were also doing, which is

448
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 4: an important thing that you don't often think about, is

449
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 4: we were going in and capturing flocks and moving them. Right,

450
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 4: That's how it worked. You know, a state biologist or

451
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 4: game ward and would fire rocket net over ten hens

452
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 4: and three jakes. I'm just pulling that number out of

453
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 4: the air, and that all those birds would be boxed

454
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 4: and they would be driven to the next state or

455
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 4: to ten counties away and released on your dad's farm

456
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 4: or whatever.

457
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: Sure.

458
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 4: Well, now what we know about wild turkeys is most

459
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 4: of those birds in that flock were related to one another,

460
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 4: and some of them were siblings. For instance, those three

461
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 4: jakes were all brothers. Yeah, so if you had ten

462
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 4: hens and six of them were related to one another,

463
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 4: then you moved an inbred unit to create your population.

464
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 4: And so instead of the population exploding and genetically the

465
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 4: numbers may have exploded because you released them into a

466
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 4: habitat that was vacant, predators weren't keyed in on them.

467
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: They went nuts.

468
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 4: Population expanded really rapidly, but genetically the population was eroding

469
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 4: very slowly.

470
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: We were introducing novel genetics into populations through trap and

471
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,239
Speaker 1: train and sport activities, and we were going in and

472
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: capturing flocks that we now know were related. This is

473
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: highly relevant information. It's fascinating information. And look, I want

474
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: to throw out a quick disclaimer. I myself, doctor Chamberlain,

475
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: and probably any wildlife biologists that you would talk to

476
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: would tell you that we still celebrate the successful efforts

477
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: of the earlier generations of conservationists to trap and relocate

478
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: turkeys in this country. It is largely in part as

479
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: to why we still have them around to enjoy and hunt.

480
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: No one would ever take anything away from that. The

481
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: point we're trying to make here now is that we

482
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: now know that many of those flocks that were moved

483
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: were likely related, which meant we were setting these turkeys

484
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: up for a future of low genetic diversity. But again,

485
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: what does that really mean going forward? Let's find out.

486
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 4: This is just a hypothesis at this point. Yeah, but

487
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 4: we are wondering whether that's part of what we've seen

488
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 4: across parts of the species range that the decline, as

489
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 4: you know, the decline has been very slow, gradual, and

490
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 4: we're wondering if this is part, not all, but part

491
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 4: of an explanation for that, is that these populations have

492
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 4: been eroding from a genetic standpoint as a consequence of

493
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 4: just kind of how we conducted business back then, versus

494
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 4: say like if you look like out West, as you know,

495
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: you go out West, and their turkeys came from all

496
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 4: over the place, and we're released in states like Idaho,

497
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 4: in California and just literally it was a hodgepodge turkeys

498
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 4: came from everywhere, versus in the East where the restoration

499
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 4: focused on using the eastern subspecies like Mississippi.

500
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: The restoration came from like three key places. Yes, yes,

501
00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: so that would lend to exactly what you're talking about, potentially.

502
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 4: Some fascinating Some states actually didn't use birds from out

503
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 4: of state.

504
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: They only used birds from in state.

505
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 4: New York and South Carolina are two examples where they

506
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 4: just took birds. It's called serial translocation. They just took

507
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 4: birds from within their own state and kept going back

508
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 4: to those same sources and moving them.

509
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: Huh.

510
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 4: And so is their potential that that is part of

511
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 4: the issue that you basically moved the same maternal lines

512
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 4: to everywhere. And now what's happened through time as you

513
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 4: kind of see this degradation if you will, and genetic

514
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 4: diversity and potential, And is that some missing piece of

515
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 4: the decline that we didn't understand.

516
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: You may have turned over a big stone.

517
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 4: We'll see. And I said that, you know, and I

518
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 4: appreciate the compliment. I'm about the metaphor, but that's the

519
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 4: way I see it. I get up every day and

520
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 4: I'm to turn stones as a researcher. That's what I mean,

521
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 4: that's what I'm charged with doing. If you turn the

522
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 4: same stone over every time and you don't get the answer,

523
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 4: you got to turn different stones. And so you know,

524
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 4: I've been studying movement and behavior and habitat use and

525
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,479
Speaker 4: all these you know, gobbling activity and all these things,

526
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 4: and I'm interested in all of that. But i still

527
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 4: don't have the answer that I wanted, and I'm not

528
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 4: retiring until I get it.

529
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: So good to know. I have so much respect for

530
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: doctor Chamberlain and the tenacity he approaches his work in

531
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: research with. I think turkeys and turkey hunters should be

532
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: thrilled that we have folks like him around. But we

533
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: still haven't gotten to the bottom of this yet.

534
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 4: Let's keep going back to what I said earlier. When

535
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 4: we started seeing these signatures in the genetic stat it's like, man,

536
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 4: that's perplexing.

537
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's just a thing on.

538
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 4: This study site, right, Is it just this site in

539
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 4: Georgia for instance, that we're seeing this and we still

540
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 4: already looking at our other population. It's like, no, this

541
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 4: is yeah, this is more widespread. So yeah, yeah, that's

542
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 4: that's kind of where we are areas of low genetic diversity.

543
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 4: Was there like any known ways that that could happen

544
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 4: prior to this hypothesis that it could be like, because

545
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 4: and how does that happen outside of that? Yeah, so,

546
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:28,239
Speaker 4: unlike say quail or grouse, turkeys are already kind of

547
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: predisposed to having relatively lower genetic diversity within an area

548
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 4: because of their social structure. You know, you've got a

549
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 4: flock that has dominant individuals within it. We know this

550
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 4: for sure that dominant individuals produced most of the poltse

551
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: in a population, both hens and toms. We've seen and

552
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 4: published this recently, very strong what's called reproductive skew, meaning

553
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 4: a fairly small segment of your times are producing a

554
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 4: lot of the polts. We see that dominant hens who

555
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 4: are nesting earlier are more successful and they produce more polts.

556
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 4: And so you already have a bird that, because of

557
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 4: its social structure and it's dominance hierarchies, kind of lends

558
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 4: itself to having a few individuals be a significant part

559
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 4: of the productivity in the population. And if you you know,

560
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 4: you see flocks, they they split up and they go

561
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 4: back to the same areas every year to breed. Right,

562
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 4: they have really strong fidelity to their breeding sites, and

563
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 4: that kind of lends itself to this. As you know,

564
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 4: as a turkey owner, you have pockets of turkeys. You

565
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 4: don't have turkeys everywhere, and so I think turkeys just

566
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 4: kind of lend themselves naturally to having, you know, relatively

567
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 4: lower genetic diversity. And what we're what we may be

568
00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 4: seeing is that because we're losing habitat and population have declined,

569
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 4: that instead of having flocks adjacent to each other that

570
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 4: periodically might mingle, you truly have in some situations isolated

571
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 4: flocks that are not individuals, are not dispersing in or out.

572
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 4: It's the same group of turkeys on these five farms

573
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 4: for the last.

574
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: Decade, and you're not having some random gobblers show up

575
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: and breed with the hen that's you know, brand new.

576
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that we the GPS data clearly shows that

577
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 4: we don't see male We don't see jake's going a

578
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 4: long distance from the year they're one year old to

579
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 4: they're two years old. They may literally move over to

580
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 4: the next farm, they may go a mile down the

581
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 4: road or whatever, and we don't see juvenile hens. They

582
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 4: they're the disperser in turkeys, the young females are, but

583
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 4: they're not going like fifty miles or something. They're they're

584
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 4: going to the adjacent home range or maybe a few

585
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 4: miles down the road. And that's part of the that's

586
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 4: part of the issue as well.

587
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: So turkeys are actually vulnerable to having low genetic diversity.

588
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: I can honestly say I have never thought of that before,

589
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: But after hearing doctor Chamberlain explain it, I got to say,

590
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: it makes sense. He's asking some big and important questions,

591
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: and personally, I'm awful glad he's digging into this.

592
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, And if you think about it, when they split

593
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 4: up out of their winter flocks, and let's say you

594
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 4: have you know, you have twenty hens that are in

595
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 4: a winter flock, and they split up to go breed.

596
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 4: You got four groups of five, let's say, and they

597
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 4: kind of blow up and go some come to your farm,

598
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 4: some gonna go to my farm.

599
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: Well, what we've.

600
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 4: Found is within that group of say five hens, there's

601
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 4: usually only one juvenile hen, right, And in some cases

602
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 4: that juvenile hen is related to one of the other

603
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 4: hens in the group, probably her daughter, right, But in

604
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 4: a lot of cases they're not. And so if you

605
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 4: think about it, through time. As our populations are producing

606
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 4: fewer young turkeys, right, sure, reproduction is declining. The probability

607
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 4: that you would have these breeding groups have no juveniles

608
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 4: in them increases.

609
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: They're all adults.

610
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 4: So you've got a group of five hens, and hen

611
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 4: survival is about seventy percent per year. So let's just

612
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 4: say you get a few bad years of productivity and

613
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 4: those five hens go from five to four to three,

614
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 4: maybe even down to two. And now when they drag

615
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 4: that tom to your farm, the reason there's not two

616
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 4: or three or four toms is because there's only one

617
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 4: or two hens that are going.

618
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: To that breeding area.

619
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 4: At what point does the group get small enough to

620
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 4: where and there's no juveniles in it, nobody knows to

621
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 4: go to your farm. At some point does the fact

622
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 4: that they just disappeared? Is it an artifact of because

623
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 4: there's been less production, there's no institutional knowledge to come

624
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: to your farm and suddenly they're gone. And I think

625
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 4: that is a plausible explanation for what I see on

626
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 4: some places I've hunted. That sure, they went from we

627
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 4: had a lot to we had a lot fewer, to

628
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 4: where we had very few, to where we have none.

629
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 4: And I can take you to properties right now that

630
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 4: I haven't had a turkey, a hen turkey in the spring,

631
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 4: or a gobble in four or five years, whereas twenty

632
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 4: years ago, I could take you to those farms we were

633
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 4: going to hear some turkeys, and so many you talked to.

634
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 4: We talked to dozens and dozens of people that have

635
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 4: the same scenario.

636
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could take you to places like that that

637
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: I know of. I've heard those same stories that. Man,

638
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,479
Speaker 1: I don't know, they just kind of slowly trickled away.

639
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: We don't know what happened. You know, we're still trying

640
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: to burn. We're still trying to do this.

641
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 4: We're doing the right things, right, Yeah, and I'm not

642
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 4: seeing any effect.

643
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 1: Yep.

644
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 4: Interesting, And I just wander back to the turning every stone. Yeah,

645
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 4: is anything genetically related? Has does that have anything to

646
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 4: do with this? And if it has some partial explanation

647
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 4: then it I want to know what that?

648
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: What that is? What if any of these hypotheses are true?

649
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: What if genetics do play a key role in some

650
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: of these scenarios. Doctor Chamberlain is laying out fascinating stuff

651
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: to think about. Say the least I want to ask

652
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: doctor Chamberlain more about getting some of these oddballs samples in.

653
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: You get you get sent one of these samples, you

654
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 1: test it and it comes back that it is has

655
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: some sort of domestic you know, non wild turkey. What

656
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: are the what could the implications of that be?

657
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 4: Okay, So what we've seen so far, and that's a

658
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 4: great question. What we've seen so far is there appear

659
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 4: to me multiple scenarios that are getting those genetics into

660
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 4: our flocks. We're not seeing instances where there's like the

661
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 4: turkey you'd get at Costco, those genetics are not out there.

662
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 4: It is situations where heritage turkeys are either being introduced, released,

663
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 4: or escaping into wild flocks and breeding with those with

664
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 4: wild birds and producing hybrid offspring. That's one route. Some

665
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 4: of the situations we're seeing are they're fully heritage birds

666
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 4: that are being harvested by hunters that have that are

667
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 4: not wired at all. They're heritage birds. But now we're

668
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 4: trying to understand, Okay, does that matter at all? Does

669
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 4: it matter that those that those genes have been introduced

670
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 4: to our population and how prevalent is it?

671
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: Because this year.

672
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 4: We we got targeted samples. Right, if the hunter you know,

673
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 4: the hunter shot a bird he thought it looked odd. Well,

674
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 4: now what we're seeing is these traits can lay dormant

675
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 4: in turkeys for several generations, And so what if those

676
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 4: genes are in other birds they're just not expressed, But

677
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 4: we won't know that until we expand.

678
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: Our sampling effort.

679
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 4: You know, when you start looking for things, right, when

680
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 4: you start testing for things, you know, the CWD example.

681
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 4: When you start testing, sometimes you end up finding that

682
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 4: something is more pervasive than you thought it was. And

683
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 4: why I won't go into that debate, but the bottom

684
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 4: line is we're wondering as we expand our sampling, do

685
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 4: we have some pockets of this, you know, where these

686
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 4: genes are more problematic and if so, does that even

687
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 4: matter at all?

688
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't matter, like is it causing a problem? Yep.

689
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 4: And on the flip side, we've already identified what appears

690
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 4: to be scenarios where there are truly why one hundred

691
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 4: percent wild turkeys that have very distinct plumage that is

692
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 4: identical from bird to bird. They look the same, which

693
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 4: makes complete sense because how many of us look at

694
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 4: a hen turkey and think, oh, I can see the

695
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 4: difference between her and her plumage and her plumage they

696
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 4: all look the same. So there does appear to be

697
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 4: scenarios where we have these these really odd looking birds

698
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 4: that are one hundred percent wild, And then the question becomes,

699
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 4: how did that happen? Is that an inbreeding issue? Literally, like,

700
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 4: is it just a perfect storm? Is it the you know,

701
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 4: the canary and the coal mine kind of thing, or

702
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 4: is this a sign of something that we need to

703
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 4: be more concerned with. And that's where we're headed, and

704
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 4: we don't know, we don't have the answer yet. It's

705
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: going to take us. It's going to take us some time.

706
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 4: And I was talking to somebody, multiple people about this.

707
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 4: If you look at the data that we've already collect

708
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 4: across all of our study sites, there is very clear

709
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 4: signatures in the Turkey genetics world. For instance, birds in

710
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 4: the Great Lakes are genetically different than birds in the

711
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: southeast south central United States. And so phil as he's

712
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 4: gone and clustered these birds based on similar genetic signatures,

713
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 4: it's very clear that there's clustering at the landscape scale

714
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 4: as you'd expect. You know, birds in the Northeast are

715
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 4: a little different than birds in the upper Midwest. Oh yeah,

716
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 4: they're all a little different than the Southeast. But then

717
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 4: when you zoom in on clusters of samples within a region,

718
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 4: you're also seeing very fine scale structuring. And what I

719
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 4: mean by that is there's a clump of individuals that

720
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 4: are related. There's a clump, there's a clump, and in

721
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 4: between those clumps is dead space. And what that implies

722
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 4: is that that within a population there's finer scale structuring,

723
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 4: meaning there's a lack of gene flow from flock to

724
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 4: flock to flock. Back to what we talked about a

725
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 4: few minutes ago, that maybe these flocks aren't mixing the

726
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 4: way that we think they would. You know, turkeys are mobile,

727
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 4: they walk around, they walk.

728
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: Anywhere they want.

729
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 4: And while we do see, you know, extraordinary examples of

730
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 4: hens that you know, move a long ways, like the

731
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 4: hen we had and I posted on social media last

732
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 4: year that went.

733
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: I saw that eighty six miles and crazy.

734
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 4: Went from Nebraska to Colorado and stayed there.

735
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, y'all tagged a duck on it.

736
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, but we don't see that. That's that's very very strange.

737
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 4: And so to the to your question is you know,

738
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 4: maybe maybe this finer scale structuring is part of just

739
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 4: their natural ecology, their natural behavior.

740
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: That's got that's gonna be My question was like, do

741
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: we know that's a bad thing or did It's is

742
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: the question mark right now?

743
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 4: It's a question mark, and then it you know, the

744
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 4: question becomes and we Phil and I were talking about

745
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 4: this a little while ago. I think what we're going

746
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 4: to see is that we're going to we're going to

747
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 4: find some places in certain states that the flag is

748
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 4: thrown that there's going to be some situations like we've

749
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: already seen in some of our data right now, that

750
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 4: there are some places in certain states where the inbreeding

751
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 4: coefficient is high enough that you would be concerned it's

752
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 4: a problem that yes, that it's hot. We've already seen this.

753
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 4: We have some populations that I've been studying for years

754
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 4: where the inbreeding, the levels of inbreeding are high enough

755
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 4: that they are at levels where you would expect to

756
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 4: see reproductive consequences where essentially every bird in the in

757
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 4: the in these flocks are our cousins at least.

758
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: That can't be good.

759
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so we're curious, is that just a thing

760
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 4: in a few pockets or is it more pervasive and widespread,

761
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 4: and until we expand the sampling, we don't know, but

762
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 4: we suspect what we'll see is that, yeah, there are

763
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 4: some pockets that maybe we need to be concerned about.

764
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 4: And if so, you know, we give this the data

765
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 4: to the tow state agencies and then they react to it.

766
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 4: But then the question becomes, if we can do that

767
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 4: and we end up seeing that, what do you do

768
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 4: about it?

769
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, what do what would you even begin to

770
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: do about it?

771
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 4: Uh? The logical outcome would be that you introduced birds

772
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 4: into those populations.

773
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,919
Speaker 1: Try to bring in some new genetics. Yep.

774
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 4: I was. I was talking to the to a group

775
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 4: yesterday about this. Is when restoration was proceeding. It was

776
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 4: just let's get turkeys and move turkeys.

777
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well they were trying to do domestic turkeys before that.

778
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, it was like, what do we gotta do?

779
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 4: Yeah? And so I think we're you know, technologies advanced.

780
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 4: Now we can see the signatures of the source populations

781
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:12,919
Speaker 4: in our current populations. We can predict with certainty how

782
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 4: many individuals of each sex would need to be introduced

783
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 4: into a population. Once we know effective population sizes, we

784
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 4: can predict how many animals you need to move and

785
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 4: what their genetics need to look like to increase genetic diversity,

786
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 4: to get it above where you know, where we're concerned

787
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,479
Speaker 4: about it. Yeah, So I think if we ever had

788
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 4: to go back down that road, and not saying we will,

789
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 4: but if we did, we have the tools now to

790
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 4: be much more surgical.

791
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: You could be like way precisely, very.

792
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 4: Precise and surgical with it, which would be I think

793
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,240
Speaker 4: necessary in the world we live in because the days

794
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 4: of restoration are gone. The world was a very different place.

795
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 4: Moving animals across state lines was It wasn't simple, but

796
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 4: it required NWTF and state agencies to collaborate, and it

797
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 4: required a lot of effort. And in many cases that's

798
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 4: not going to be practical right now with all the

799
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 4: interstate transport issues and disease transmission issues. The science community

800
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 4: is going to have to be much more surgical when

801
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 4: we inform agencies. And I actually have the restoration records

802
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 4: in my office on campus and it's you know, state

803
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 4: by state folders, and you open up some of the

804
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 4: folders and there will literally be a letter of you know,

805
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 4: of a handwritten letter or typed letter, dot matrix printer

806
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 4: or something with a signature from somebody, for instance, James

807
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 4: Earl Kennemer saying as prior agreement, i'vened, we've arranged to

808
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 4: get forty pheasants and we're going and in return you

809
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 4: need to provent twelve hen turkeys or whatever. And so

810
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 4: it was literally a you know, barter in trade system.

811
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 4: And I love hit the history of the turkey, particularly science,

812
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 4: and I go back and I don't have time for this,

813
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 4: and my life's so busy, but I literally will take

814
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 4: a break at work sometimes and just go in and

815
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 4: pick a state, just open the folder and start flipping

816
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 4: through until I see a letter, because I know the

817
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 4: letter is going to be gold. It's going to be

818
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 4: a correspondence about who's getting what and trading for what.

819
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 4: And I just see that as so fascinating.

820
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: Y'all know how much I love hearing about the old

821
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: school conservation stories. I think it's just so cool and

822
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 1: it adds so much to the appreciation that we should

823
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: all have for the hunting and wildlife that we get

824
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: to enjoy today. So hearing doctor Chamberlain bring up some

825
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: of that old stuff and actually be able to reference it,

826
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: find inspiration in it, and then use it for some

827
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: of the work he's doing today, Well, that's just too cool.

828
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: I want to ask doctor Chamberlain a more broad question,

829
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: what about the greater future of turkey hunting.

830
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 4: Turkey hunters are, to a man or woman, regardless of

831
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 4: their perspective, regardless of what gun they shoot, what amo

832
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 4: they shoot what, they all want the same thing in

833
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 4: their heart. They all want sustainable turkeys.

834
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: They want to be able to.

835
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 4: Hunt turkeys, and they want the kids to hunt turkeys.

836
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,439
Speaker 4: And if you told the average hunter, would you support

837
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 4: something that is going to help sustain turkeys. If you

838
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 4: find somebody that says no, that I don't want to

839
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 4: be around them, yeah, I mean that's not who we are.

840
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, because to your point. And I think I made

841
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: this illustration to somebody one day. I'm curious fore you'd

842
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: agree with it or not. Someone we were talking about

843
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: a similar thing and they said, they said, every turkey

844
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: hunter wants, you know, more long beards at the end

845
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 1: of their barrel. And I said, they they do. Don't

846
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: get me wrong, they do. I think overall more of

847
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: them are interested to be able to go out and

848
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: hear one in the morning. Yes, that out ways the

849
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: gun the turkey at the end of the barrel.

850
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 4: Yes, and research has shown that hearing a gobling turkey

851
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 4: is the primary determinant of hunter satisfaction. If we know

852
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 4: we're in the game, that's what matters. Yeah, you know,

853
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 4: when you go out there and don't hear something, it's

854
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 4: it's a gut punch, it's deflating. When if you know

855
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 4: you're going to hear a turkey, your step is a

856
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 4: lot Crisper, I completely agree with you. I think if

857
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 4: you particularly, I see this particularly with turkey hunters my

858
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 4: age and older that have seen the days when you

859
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,240
Speaker 4: could hear twenty I can remember as a grad student

860
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 4: hearing so many turkeys that I didn't even know which

861
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 4: direction to turn, Like I can remember I could take

862
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 4: you to places in Mississippi Delta that in nineteen ninety three,

863
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,399
Speaker 4: I was paralyzed. I didn't know what to do. They

864
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 4: were everywhere, there were turkeys gobbling everywhere.

865
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: And I've seen that.

866
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 4: And then I saw the population crash, and I saw

867
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 4: it get to where you couldn't hear a turkey, and

868
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 4: in states that I see it starting to recover, and

869
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 4: I'm hopeful, I'm optimistic. I don't ever want to go back.

870
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: To where I'm not hearing them.

871
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 4: So and I think old older turkey hunters that have

872
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 4: seen those days the nineties, I think we all know

873
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 4: we'll never get back there. But if we can get

874
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 4: back to a point where I'm going to hear goblin turkey,

875
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 4: then we I think we've won the battle at that point.

876
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the that's the goal, man. Yeah. Then knowing

877
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: they're out there, hearing them, knowing they're on the landscape,

878
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: that's that's that's.

879
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 4: It for me as a turkey hunting community. We have

880
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 4: to keep that in mind that our goal needs to

881
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,959
Speaker 4: be at least one goal needs to be that there

882
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 4: needs to be a turkey hunter that replaces us because

883
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 4: hunters in general, is this the audience of this podcast. No,

884
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 4: we're the minority everywhere and turkey hunters. If we're not

885
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 4: replacing ourselves at a minimum, who's going to speak up

886
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 4: and champion for this bird?

887
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: Yeah?

888
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 4: Fifty years from now?

889
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know it's funny, man. I didn't think that

890
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: I would be able to draw back to mister Benny's

891
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: interview so much talking to you. But it's cool how

892
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: it's worked out.

893
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 4: Just supposed to work out like that.

894
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I think it's it's perfect. But I was

895
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: asking mister Bennie, you know, because a lot of things

896
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: you're about today you talk, you hear about, you know,

897
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: places you know, so many hunters and public land spots

898
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: getting crowded and this, that and the other. And I

899
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: asked him, I said, would you with the turkey relocation

900
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: the restockings, or with the turkey restoration and restocking been

901
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 1: nearly as successful in Mississippi if you didn't have these

902
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: hunters in private landowners I worked with you. You said no, Yeah,

903
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: he said, they would have hung on on public land,

904
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: because we were doing on public land as well, but

905
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 1: to the degree where it's at statewide right now, I said,

906
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: it would have been impossible. And I brought up the

907
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 1: overcrowded thing, and he said, as long as you have

908
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: hunters interested in turkey on, there's going to be turkeys around.

909
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: And it's as simple as that. Yeah, as simple as that. Yep. Yeah.

910
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 4: We we just have to harness, you know, our love

911
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 4: for the bird and try to seek ways to, you know,

912
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 4: make sure our landscapes are functioning as well as they

913
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 4: can hide, you know, whether it's habitat management, managing our

914
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 4: own activities. I mean, I agree with that. I think

915
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 4: as long as there are people like us that have

916
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 4: a true passion for the bird and chasing it, that

917
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:40,919
Speaker 4: we'll have wild turkeys.

918
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 1: Man, I tell you, I can't sum it up any

919
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: better than that. As long as we have people who

920
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: have a true passion for the bird and hunting it

921
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 1: and rest assured, turkeys will be around. And hey, maybe

922
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 1: this wild Turkey DNA stuff will shine a light on

923
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: some critical information.

924
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:56,720
Speaker 2: Who knows.

925
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: I can confidently say we have the right man on

926
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: the job. If you want to follow along with some

927
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: of the cool work they're doing or potentially sign up

928
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,919
Speaker 1: to be a part, be sure to check them out

929
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: at wild TURKEYDNA dot com. That's wild Turkey dna dot com.

930
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: You can also follow along with them on Facebook, Instagram,

931
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: and x just search wild Turkey DNA. I want to

932
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: thank all of you for listening to Backwoods University as

933
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: well as Bear Grease in this country life. And I

934
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: know I say it all the time, but it sure

935
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: does mean a lot to all of us that all

936
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 1: you find folks continue to tune in a week after week.

937
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: If you like this episode, send it to a friend

938
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 1: this week. Maybe one that's jonesing for some new Spring

939
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: Turkey content, and stick around because there's a whole lot

940
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: more on the way