1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, wherever 6 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: you are in the world. Thank you so much for 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: joining us for another episode. Today is one that I 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: am super super excited about. Something that we don't talk 9 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: about a lot on this show is sex and pleasure 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: and I think that it is really important to discuss. 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: So I don't know why we haven't spoken about it before, 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: but when I heard about this company a couple of 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: years ago, I immediately downloaded their app. It's an amazing 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: experience and additionally, I think really aligns with a lot 15 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: of the values we promote on this show. We talk 16 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: a lot about psychology, obviously, and I think, like everything 17 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: in our twenties, sex in our twenties is also based 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: in a lot of psychology. So today we are going 19 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: to talk about it, and I've brought on a wonderful, 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: fabulous guest to join us. One of the co founders 21 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: of Dipsy, Gina Gutierrez. 22 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: Hi, wow, I'm so happy to be here. 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for coming along. Can you kind of talk 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: us through what we're talking about today, but also what 25 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: dipsy is, because I think one of the big things 26 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: about sex in our twenties is that we kind of 27 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: don't really have like a guidebook. We kind of just 28 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: go all in. No one's really telling us what to do, 29 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: and we can feel quite disconnected. So where does kind 30 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: of dipsy sit in that kind of space? 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, So dipsy is an app for audio erotica and 32 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: the stories are all original and we write them ourselves 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: in studio. Their sex positive, they're feminist, they're really fun, 34 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: and they show what sex could kind of be like 35 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: realistically but also really aspirationally. And it's obviously fifteen minutes 36 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: of fun when you're listening to an episode, but they're 37 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: also amazing to hear how sex could happen, or what 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: you might say, or what a date could be like 39 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: that you might really want to be on, or how 40 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: you might enter a sex club for the first time. 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 2: Right Like, they actually do teach you a little bit 42 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: about how you might experience things in your own life, 43 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: and we love that. We love creating a guidebook in 44 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 2: a world where there are not a lot of guidebooks. 45 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:41,119 Speaker 2: So Dipsy is a brainchild of kind of the combination 46 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: of what sexual wellness experience could feel like and also 47 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: like a really great storytelling studio could feel like. And 48 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: it is both. 49 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and where did you get the idea from? So 50 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: if you haven't kind of dipped your toes into audio erotica, 51 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: I think it's amazing. Obviously, as someone who works in 52 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: like the audio space, I think stories and like really 53 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: provide us with an insane ability to firstly be educated, 54 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: but also to connect not just with others but with ourselves. So, yeah, 55 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: where did you get this idea from? Because I think 56 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: it's like so smart. 57 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: Well, thank you. So my co founder and I started 58 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: the company when we were twenty seven, and I'd been 59 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 2: thinking about these ideas since I was in college, so 60 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: since I was eighteen. And I remember one of my 61 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: really good friends coming back to our dorm and she 62 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: had just had sex the night before with this guy 63 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: that she was really into. She came back and she 64 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: was like, I really like him, but I just the 65 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: sex isn't that good. Why wouldn't that just be automatic? 66 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: If I really like him, shouldn't the sex be good? 67 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: So I started asking her questions about the experience. And 68 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: when I asked her the question what are you thinking 69 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: about when you're having sex? She looked at me with 70 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: this blank stare and she was like, Wow, I really 71 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: don't know. And something about that moment really struck me 72 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: that she was so focused on her physical experience, she 73 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: wasn't thinking about her mental experience at all. So I 74 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: think many of us understand our brains holding us back 75 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: from good sex. It's like I'm stressed out, so that 76 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: makes my sex drive lower, or I'm preoccupied by a 77 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: conversation I had earlier, and so I'm kind of dissociated, 78 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: or I'm overly focused on what I look like or 79 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: what I'm doing, or I'm you know, struggling in all 80 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 2: these ways. These are actually like psychological barriers, but we're 81 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 2: really not focused on what ways our brain could really 82 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 2: support us and having amazing sex. And so, how do 83 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: we have our own bank a fantasy that we lean on, 84 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: And how do we have language that we use that 85 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: we like to hear and guide someone in giving more 86 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 2: to us, or that we like to say because we 87 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: like to say it, And these are these amazing unlocks 88 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: that really make sex so much better, and storytelling is 89 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: such an amazing space for that. But the reason that 90 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 2: we started it when we were twenty seven is because 91 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: common Headspace were coming up, and common Headspace we're showing 92 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: that you could make an amazing audio experience that was 93 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: super immersive, and that wasn't there just to teach you 94 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: something like podcasts were doing at the time, but to 95 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: change how you felt. And I firmly believe that storytelling 96 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: can change how you feel. And I really wanted to 97 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: make stories I feel like that, and I had this 98 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 2: hunch that audio Erotica could really be this amazing immersive 99 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 2: experience that was imagination forward, so you could imagine kind 100 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 2: of your own house on the blueprint that we were 101 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 2: giving you with our stories, what characters looked and sounded like, 102 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: what you looked and sounded like that in that story 103 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: where you were how it all comes together is really 104 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: up to you to create. And there's something really really 105 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: powerful about that that I think is really really empowering. 106 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: You really are in control. 107 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I absolutely love that and totally fully agree. I 108 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: really think it's fascinating what you said around how we 109 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: recognize the intersections between our mental framework and our psychology 110 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: and the sex we're having, but we don't recognize it 111 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: in the moment, right. We think about it as a barrier, 112 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: not as an enabler. So how can we kind of 113 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: leverage that understanding of how our mind's working and how 114 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: our psychology impacts our physical sensations to have good sex 115 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: in our twenties. I think that's like the golden question 116 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: that I get asked so much. It's like countless episodes 117 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: podcast about this, you know, articles people want to know 118 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: how to have good sex in their twenties. 119 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think first of all, it's answering what 120 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: good sex is like. What makes sex good? I think 121 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 2: is a question we don't often ask ourselves, and I 122 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: think it's a very personal question. And what I would 123 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: encourage people to think about is start noticing what feels 124 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 2: good to you across all avenues of your life. And 125 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: what I mean by that is, I think we have 126 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 2: these stories or ideas of what feels good, like binge 127 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: watching my favorite show feels good, or seeing this group 128 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: of friends feels good. But then when you do binge 129 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: watch that show or you do see the group of friends, 130 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: you're turning off the TV, you're driving home, and you're 131 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 2: thinking like, ooh, I'm kind of tired, or I'm kind 132 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: of just like feeling a little dick, or I'm feeling 133 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 2: a little bit out of my body. It's really interesting 134 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 2: to notice that these things we might have stories about 135 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 2: that make us feel good actually don't make us feel good. 136 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 2: On the other hand, there are many things that you 137 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: might do that really surprise you with how good they feel. 138 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: Maybe there's a new friend that you're spending time with 139 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: and every time you leave them and you're like, wow, 140 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: I feel energized, I feel excited, I feel like I laughed, 141 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: I feel like I was funny, whatever, and you notice 142 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: that and it feels good. And so I think it's 143 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: a really good place to start with just being like, 144 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: listen to the signals of your body of like, this 145 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: feels good. I would like more of this where this 146 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: actually doesn't feel good, and you might be surprised by 147 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: what some of those things are. I think we're very distracted. 148 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: We have screens all around us, we're moving from place 149 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 2: to place, we're busy with our jobs, and if we 150 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: aren't listening to those signals, how can we listen to 151 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: what those signals might be like in the bedroom. So 152 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: that's like baseline where I start. Yeah, I think solo 153 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 2: sex is also kind of where to start. I mean, 154 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: the American sex education system certainly doesn't talk about masturbation 155 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: the way I think it should be talked about, where 156 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: it's a really by default safe place for you to 157 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: explore what kind of touch you like, what you like, 158 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: to fantasize about pacing order. You know, you get to 159 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 2: start thinking through what your ropes are. You know, your 160 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 2: own ropes, and I don't know. I think especially I 161 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: hear this at dipsy with heterosexual women who are in 162 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: partnerships with men who kind of almost assume that men 163 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: come pre coded with knowledge about sex. And I can 164 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: guarantee you that no one comes pre coded with that. 165 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: But men often have the guidebook of porn and that 166 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: comes with the whole mixed set of messages, some maybe 167 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 2: interesting and some really harmful. And so if he or 168 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: they or she is coming with their own ideas of 169 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: what sex is and what good sex is, you too 170 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: need to come to the table with your ideas of 171 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: what good sex is. You feel empowered in that, and 172 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: you can stand firm in that, and the only way 173 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: you can really do that, I think is by exploring 174 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: just by yourself. And so I think like round one, 175 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: like step one is what does the self touch or 176 00:08:58,559 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 2: the solo sex experience feel. 177 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, I again, I just keep powerting it. Exactly 178 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: what you're saying. I really really agree with that. It's 179 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: really interesting because when I first started having sex, like 180 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: in my teen years and then even in my like 181 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: very early twenties, I used to just like define sex 182 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: as like penetration. And I was literally talking to someone 183 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: about this yesterday, where I was like I used to 184 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: be like, all right, it's good sex if like it's 185 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: penetrative and he comes totally and nothing else matters because 186 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: it's all about like pleasuring them. And it's so interesting 187 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: because I think when I started to be like really 188 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: move into this like self exploration phase, I bought a vibrator. 189 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: It's the best thing I ever probably the best seventy 190 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: dollars I ever spent. And then suddenly it was like 191 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: not only was I having better sex, but I was 192 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: attracting better partners. And I think it also came from 193 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: this like confidence thing as well, in this like sense 194 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: of self of like, Wow, I am having better sex 195 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: with myself than I've ever had with someone else, So 196 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: I only want someone to elevate that experience. 197 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you talk to the average I mean, 198 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 2: maybe this is a little ageist, but I think if 199 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 2: you talk to the average forty or fifty year old 200 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: about sex being this playground to discover who you are 201 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 2: and how confident you can be in this world and 202 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 2: how much you love yourself, they'd be like, yeah, yah, yeah, yeah. 203 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 2: I think if you say that to a younger person, 204 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 2: they're more likely to be like, yeah, totally, Like this 205 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: is this underused space where if I have some more, 206 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 2: if I pay more attention to what I can do 207 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 2: in this space, I might like take that with me 208 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 2: out in the world. And I think when people listen 209 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 2: to Dipsey they sometimes say that, They'll say, like, I 210 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 2: don't even need to listen right before I have sex. 211 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: Sometimes I just walk out the street and I'm like 212 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 2: I'm walking with like a skip in my step. I'm 213 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 2: feeling good. I'm like bouncing down the sidewalk, I'm smiling 214 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: at strangers like that. Feeling feels like feeling alive. So 215 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 2: I think sex is just one way to be like, 216 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: how can I like really feel alive and here in 217 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,239 Speaker 2: this world? And that's I mean, like that's so worthwhile, 218 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: you know, Like that's that's it right there in my mind. 219 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that kind of gets to this 220 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: point right where it's like you don't need to be 221 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: I think you don't need to be having sex to 222 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: be experiencing pleasure. I think we often put sex on 223 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: this pedestal. There's this weird conondrum I've found where there's 224 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: like this shame around having sex. But it used to 225 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: be a lot of shame around having too much sex. 226 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: And now I hear a lot of people, see a 227 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: lot of people with my personal life through this podcast 228 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: who come to me and are like, I'm experiencing a 229 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: lot of self shame because I'm having too little Yeah. Classic, Yeah, 230 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: because I feel like everyone is selling sex to me? 231 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: Is this like empowering thing? And that I need to 232 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: have all of these sexual experiences in my twenties to 233 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: like form the foundation of you know, having good sex 234 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: in my third days or like having these stories. Where 235 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: do you think that comes from? Because that's something I'm 236 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: really fascinated by. 237 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: There are so many shoulds in this space. It's incredible, 238 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 2: and I think it's really interesting to me how numbers 239 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: obsessed we are about sex. We like really try and 240 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: quantify it, like how many times a week is normal? 241 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: What's healthy? What's good for my relationship? And what it 242 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 2: all boils down to is all of us asking ourselves 243 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: like am I normal? And it's the number one question 244 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: that we get asked all the time, like an investigation 245 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 2: of whether normal? And the answer is that there are 246 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: so many different ways to be normal, but everyone is 247 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,479 Speaker 2: normal in that there's just like different roots to discovering 248 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: you know, what's going to work for you, and the 249 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 2: shame around you know, having too much having too little. 250 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 2: I see it as connected to the self care movement too, 251 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 2: which I think net net very positive. It's wonderful that 252 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: people have paid more attention to taking care of themselves 253 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 2: and addressing when they're overstressed or overtaxed. But when that 254 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 2: starts to tip into are you doing all this stuff? 255 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: Are you meditating every day? These are these shoulds? Actually 256 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: you're putting yourself into a new should space And so 257 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: I would you know, really ask someone to reframe. It's 258 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: like really not about quantity at all, unless that really 259 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: matters to you, decide if that really matters to you. 260 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 2: But it's actually allowing other people to decide what matters 261 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 2: to you. I think what really matters is what feels 262 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: good to you. And so if you're having a little 263 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: high quality sex and whatever that means to you, that's amazing. 264 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: Unless you feel like you want to be having more 265 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: for it of it, Ask yourself that is that something 266 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: that you care about, and start to like create your 267 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 2: own ideas of what matters to you, not because anyone has, 268 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 2: you know, other ideas that should weigh in on that. 269 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: So there are going to be expectations in this space 270 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: all over the place. I think in relationships, their expectations. 271 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: When you're single, their expectations, and it's hard to We 272 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 2: are social human beings. We look to others to help 273 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: us understand how we move through this world. And that's 274 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: very natural. But the shame around having you know, two 275 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 2: little sex, I think now is a little bit of 276 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: like this new thing where like the former stigma was 277 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: like you know, you're out there and you're what are 278 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: all the old fashioned sayings like you're too loose or 279 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: too easy or whatever words were the words then? And 280 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 2: I think now the new fear that I hear from 281 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: a lot of twenty year olds, you know, eighteen to 282 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 2: twenty four especially, is like have I had enough? 283 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: Like? 284 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: Am I experienced enough? Is it shameful and embarrassing that 285 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 2: I'm going out in the world without enough experience? And 286 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, like you don't need to put that 287 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: upon yourself. 288 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: I think that that is actually really getting too such 289 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: a such a good point there of like the shoulds 290 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: that accompany sex. And I remember talking to a friend 291 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: the other day and I was like, you know, you 292 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: can have a lot of sex and not much of 293 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: it can be good, yeah, you know, or you can 294 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: be having sex with one person right for your whole 295 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: life and it's amazing. Like I think that that numbers 296 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: that numbers descript on that numbers game you were talking about. 297 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: I see that everywhere in like, oh, what's your body count? 298 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: As well? Totally I'm surprised by how many people ask 299 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: that question. 300 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 2: I know, the body count thing is interesting. First of all, 301 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: what a horrible phrase, so past. 302 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: I know, I'm like, oh, and the fact that I 303 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: think that it's like was first used very much by 304 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: man and now it's one of those phrases where we 305 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: just say we don't actually think about what that actually, Yeah. 306 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 2: Let's talk about what it actually means just right now, 307 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: because I'm thinking about it for the first time in 308 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: a long time, which is like sex as bodies and 309 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: that we are these transactional physical beings and we just 310 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: transact with one another and we handshake or have penetrative 311 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 2: sex in this context, and then we move on instead 312 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 2: of having some sort of emotional, chemical, interesting interaction with someone, 313 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: even if that's just purely a one on one time moment, 314 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that you're not having a human interaction 315 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 2: with someone. Body count makes it sound so, yeah, your 316 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: personhood is kind of a race from that completely. 317 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I also think that when we think about 318 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: body count in other aspects, maybe this is a bit 319 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: of a stretch, but how it's used in like the 320 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: military and to like accompany the idea of like dead 321 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: bodies and like this, and when they used it in 322 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: that sense, it was like, oh, what's your body count? 323 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: As this like metal of honor of like how many 324 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: people have you like dominated killed? It just I think 325 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: is still very much this like descripture of like to 326 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: be celebrated. The high your BodyCount the better, and especially 327 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: when we think about its origins in terms of a 328 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: very historically excessively patriarchal, misogynistic society. This is normally what 329 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: it was referring to. Anyhow, we're off track, but I 330 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: do think that it's like that language around sex really 331 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: needs to go. 332 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're judgmental in both directions. I think we're 333 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: judgmental of single people who have quote unquote too many partners, 334 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: and we're judgmental of long term monogamous people who have 335 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 2: had only one partner. And like we're judgmental about whether 336 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: that's you know better or worse, whether you learn more 337 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 2: or less, whether you have more sexual experience or less. 338 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: And I think all of it is just, you know, 339 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 2: we're projecting our own insecurities about what's happening with everyone else. 340 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 2: But all experiences are normal, and all experiences are valid 341 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: if they're what you want. And again, it all comes 342 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 2: back to. 343 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: What you want. 344 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: But of course we struggle with that and sex because 345 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of people are asking us 346 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: to evaluate that. Very often we're not. We don't really 347 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: don't really flax that. 348 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: Muscle, absolutely not. I also think it links back to 349 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: very much where we learn sex from. You know, we 350 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: talked about porn, but also in terms about education system, 351 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: the conversations that our friends are having, movies, And I 352 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: recently really was thinking about this in terms of also 353 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: like your first sexual experience and how much that really 354 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: determines how you see sex unless you unlearn it. And 355 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: I think that that also, you know, I don't think 356 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,719 Speaker 1: most people's first sex experience is particularly good. You know, 357 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: it's might not be terrible, but like you're kind of 358 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: just fumbling through it. And I think that if you 359 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: think if your entire perception of sex is based off 360 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: of one experience or like your first experience and how 361 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: that went, and you're not and that's never been challenged, 362 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: particularly what I was talking about before, where it's like 363 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: it's very penetration based and it's very much based on 364 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: like I'm a heterosexual woman, based on what the man wants. 365 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: That takes a long time to unlearn. How do you 366 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: think we can kind of start to unlearn that. 367 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting the idea of you know, well, I 368 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 2: had oral sex and that's not sex or these are 369 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: like common things that you hear, you know, in the 370 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 2: categorization or the quantifying of like what sex is, and 371 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 2: it all comes down to ignoring the feelings of it, 372 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 2: just focused on the facts of it. Your question is, 373 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 2: how do we move away from the idea that the 374 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: first experience is like this, we over index on it. 375 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: I think, just like, how do we unlearn some of 376 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: some of the early things we're talked about sex, the 377 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: harmful things we're taught about sex, whether that's from alpha 378 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: sexual experience or from porn or from I think I 379 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: think the education system is a bit different in Australia. 380 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: We don't do amazing, but we I think do a 381 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: little bit better. 382 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 2: But even then, the American system is a. 383 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: System oh wow, okay, so going against the there, but 384 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: how do we unline some of those things? 385 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, you reference really early on in the conversation that 386 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 2: there aren't a lot of good guide books and that's 387 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 2: something that we a dipsy are very aware of and 388 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 2: I think it right now. It puts the burden on 389 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: people to do a lot of self discovery to find 390 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 2: out what they like, but also to do some un 391 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 2: learning and to do some understanding of how consent can 392 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 2: fold into their lives and kind of do the work 393 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: of being a healthy sex positive sexual partner. And that's 394 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: hard because I wish it was easier for people. It 395 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: shouldn't have to be so difficult to kind of self 396 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: serve on the Internet to figure that out, especially because 397 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: you might hit a lot of things that you don't 398 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 2: want to see or aren't there information. The Internet is 399 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 2: a wild West sort of resource, so I think finding 400 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,479 Speaker 2: sources that you trust really matters, and so like at Tipsy, 401 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 2: we hope to be one of those sources. You know, 402 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 2: you trust the makers. They're asking you to pay for 403 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 2: this content. It is ethical content by default. If you're 404 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 2: engaging with more classic visual pornography, pay for that content. 405 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: That is the best and only way that you can 406 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 2: really guarantee that it is on the side of ethical 407 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 2: porn versus you don't know it's genesis or how it's 408 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 2: being made. That you are allowing yourself to expand your 409 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: understanding and what those resources are. Like, maybe you're really 410 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 2: excited about fan thick on the Internet and you're like, 411 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: this isn't teaching. This is just like the fluffy stuff 412 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 2: about sex. It's not like you're actually doing active work 413 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 2: and understanding what you like, what the mattics feel exciting, 414 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: to you and what feels less exciting to you. And 415 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 2: those are all resources that are available to you, and 416 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 2: many of them are actually fun and engaging and don't 417 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 2: feel like you're reading your eighteenth blog post about consent 418 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 2: and still confused. No, I want people to listen to 419 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 2: a dipsy story and say, like, oh, like that actually 420 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: wasn't so complicated, that didn't like kill the vibe. That 421 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 2: actually made it sound even sexier. You know, there's a 422 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: spectrum from like consent to dirty talk, and there's like 423 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: a huge in between of like what it means to 424 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: verbalize during sex. These are things that are so hard 425 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 2: if you don't have examples of what that sounds like. 426 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: So people need more resources to figure that out before 427 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 2: they're like out in the world. Some people are intrepid 428 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: and they're like, great, I'll figure that out during sex 429 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: and I'll learn as I go, amazing. And there's other 430 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 2: people that don't feel as comfortable doing that, of course not. 431 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: And so you know, our hope is that there are 432 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: more resources like Dipsy around and there are, but yeah, 433 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 2: it's okay to take either path. I think like getting 434 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: out there and learning is great, and doing the work 435 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 2: to learn was also great again and like what's your 436 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 2: what's your path? Everyone's gonna have a different path. 437 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned fan fic on the internet. 438 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: I feel like that was such a introduction for me. 439 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: Was like erotical, like erotic literature, and I remember being like, 440 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 1: oh my god, I feel so bad. I had like 441 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: this one book at college and like I actually found 442 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: it the other day and like this sex and it 443 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: is so mild, Like it's so very mild, and I 444 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: was like wow, like, oh my gosh, like this is insane. 445 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: Like I like had the page like duggy it and 446 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: like all that stuff. And I'm like, I do think 447 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: that that is actually such a valid thing, Like I 448 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: don't know, everyone loves a little bit of a smutty novel. 449 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 2: Like yeah, every It's amazing how many people now that 450 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 2: it's getting a little bit more comfortable to talk about 451 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 2: these things. You know, Dipsy's been around for five years, 452 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: and I think five years ago people talked about this 453 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,239 Speaker 2: less than they do now. Even like the new up 454 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 2: and coming interest in uh like romance media like Bridgerton 455 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 2: wouldn't have happened five years ago, which is cool to watch. 456 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 2: The kind of that's happening, and I think part of 457 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: it is like the pushback against misogyny happening in our 458 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 2: culture where it's like cool, like you want to watch football, amazing, Well, 459 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 2: I want to watch a romance vis of media and 460 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: I want to watch Brigerton and that's an equally valuable 461 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 2: way of using my time. And it's not like chick lit. 462 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: It's not like worse media. It's like great media that 463 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 2: is fun and I love to consume. So I think 464 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: a little bit of it is like a pushback on 465 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 2: there aren't certain types of media that are like by 466 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 2: nature worse or better. You actually just get to choose 467 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 2: what you like, which I think is really empowering and awesome. 468 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 2: But yeah, we all had the dog Yard Book, and 469 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 2: we hit the dog Yard Book right, and that was 470 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 2: in an era where you had to kind of hide it. 471 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: Exactly. It's so interesting though, because I distinctly remember my 472 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: grandma having like, do you guys have Mills and Boone? 473 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: What is that? Okay? So Mills and Boone is like this. 474 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: Maybe it's just an Australian thing, but it's like this 475 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: series of like smart books, like sexy romance books felt 476 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: like the generation of my grandma. Yeah, well maybe even 477 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: my mom so like, and they all look exactly the 478 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: same and on the front will be like this eighties 479 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: photoshopped image and I'll be like the Cowboy, yeah exactly. 480 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,239 Speaker 1: It will be like the Cowboy and the Runaway like 481 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: something like that. It will be like the Mistress of 482 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: ohm On or like something, and it's just like and 483 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: it's just smuck. And my grandma used to have them 484 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: everywhere when we were kids. So it's it's interesting that 485 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: I still felt like shame around sex. I think because 486 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, Grandma, that's so embarrassing. 487 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,719 Speaker 1: But it was so it's so funny because I think 488 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: that it's just and it I think also she did 489 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: feel a bit of like shame, but then as she 490 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: got older, she was like, oh, I'm I'm an. I 491 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: still feel sexual urges, like I still feel pleasure. Wow, 492 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: and I'm. 493 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: Really powerful to hear that from your grandmother. That's really cool. 494 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: She was, Oh, she's she's still alive. I don't know 495 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: why I was like gonna say she was. She is 496 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: like a very empower lady. And I think it, you know, 497 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: I actually got old at that actually became more evident 498 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: to me. 499 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 2: Well, you know, when we were first starting to think 500 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 2: about making Dipsy not just an idea but a company, 501 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: we were looking at the romance novel industry and it's amazing, 502 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 2: Like it drives the publishing industry, Like it is the 503 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: reason the publishing industry is afloat. Literally Amazon had to 504 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 2: create a different package in order to not lose money 505 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 2: because romance novel consumers read so many of them that 506 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 2: they were like literally taking Amazon out of business. The 507 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 2: business model wasn't working, so they had to create a 508 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 2: separate package for it. So there's like incredible, voracious demand 509 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 2: for this content, but we weren't seeing that demand kind 510 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: of trickle down to younger audiences. Why is that? Well, 511 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 2: like is the guy with the long hair on the horse, 512 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 2: like really the model of what's sexy anymore? Is that 513 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: it there's all sorts of kind of baggage that was 514 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: associated with the category that did really well for our 515 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 2: moms and our aunts and our grandmothers. And that's amazing, 516 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: Like this is not new, This is just new ways 517 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 2: of making this feel cool and contemporary, and like it 518 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 2: is talking about sex the way that you might talk 519 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 2: about it with your friends or like actually have it, 520 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: you know, out in the world. So I think it's 521 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 2: amazing that that existed, but I also think we should 522 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: be aware that that was very much like relegated as 523 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 2: this like silly little woman's thing, which happens a lot 524 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 2: where either sex is very very dangerous or sex is 525 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 2: like this like silly, safe little interest, and those like 526 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 2: those are the kind of the two places that it 527 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 2: can be. You know, our understanding of what pleasure is 528 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: is really really limited in the context of Western society. 529 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 2: You know, we've been taught to be good members of society, 530 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 2: and that our value is measured by what we make 531 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 2: or what we do, or by our success or maybe 532 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 2: buy how esteemed we are, and so we see pleasure 533 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 2: as like a distraction to what matters most, or worse, 534 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 2: like a place of no return, Like if we focus 535 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 2: on pleasure, we'll ignore all these more important parts of 536 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 2: our lives. And so pleasure is generally seen as the 537 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 2: stone where it's like allowed to exist if it feels guilty, 538 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 2: Like you can have it, but you better feel guilty 539 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: about it. That's like the regulating factor. And I think 540 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 2: the way that we treated romance novels for many, many 541 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: decades was that it's like, Okay, you can have your 542 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 2: silly little book that's safe, but like, let's make you 543 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 2: feel a little guilty about it to keep it in check, 544 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: because pleasure is seen as selfish, and pleasure is seen 545 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 2: as you know, you need to earn it, and the 546 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 2: worst worst case scenario, it's seen as dangerous, where like, 547 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: once you get a taste, what will happen? And frankly, 548 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 2: I think, in the context of our patriarchal society, as 549 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 2: you just called it out, if a woman knows what 550 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 2: true pleasure is, why wouldn't she just leave her husband, 551 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 2: Why wouldn't she break the family you did? Why wouldn't 552 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 2: she be out discovering and exploring. It was like, let's 553 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 2: not even give her a taste, right, And those are 554 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 2: the containers of thought that we still see when we 555 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 2: talk to our customers. We hear that all the time. 556 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 2: These are the things I'm afraid of. It's like, Eh, 557 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 2: if I'm experiencing pleasure, I'm wasting time, Or like if 558 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 2: I'm experiencing pleasure, that means someone else experiences less of it. 559 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 2: Or if I work hard enough and get thin enough, 560 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 2: then I deserve something. 561 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: Like we all know that feels like that second point 562 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: that you just said then was like like I've never 563 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: been able to identify which one that if I feel pleasure, 564 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: someone else. 565 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 2: Will feel less zero sum. 566 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Ye, I'm shocked because I think that 567 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: that is an attitude that I've had for a very 568 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: long time. Definitely, Wow, that was like kind of my 569 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: going to me. But people are probably listening to this 570 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: being like, yeah, Dad, that's not true. But like, I 571 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: think it was just the way that you were able 572 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: to describe that. I guess that really Also, I want 573 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: to say, you're so right when you were talking about 574 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: the you know, the cowboy with the long hair, and 575 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: how this generation is is not particularly attracted to that depiction. 576 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: And I really think you know that it comes down 577 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: to people are more interested in a character psychologically nowadays. 578 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: Same way they don't want them to be. Yeah, they 579 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: don't want them to be like perfect, they want them 580 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: to be they want them to have some kind of 581 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: nuance and some kind of discoverability and some kind of 582 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: vulnerability that is interesting. It's not just about physical form. 583 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: It's not about being this like archetype and depiction of attractiveness. 584 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: It's it's we are like we we want to be 585 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: more psychologically satisfied by our characters. 586 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 2: That's so well said, and you see that in fan fiction, 587 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 2: like you see the kind of like enemy that is 588 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: misunderstood and has so much more to offer, or the 589 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 2: kind of mysterious character that hasn't been fully understood until 590 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 2: one person can really see and understand them. And that's 591 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 2: some of the most common tropes that you're seeing happen 592 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 2: over and over again. 593 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, your biggest example is Christian Gray. Yeah, that's 594 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: probably fifty shades gay like this, like torture. 595 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: Do you think he's redeemable often? 596 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:49,239 Speaker 1: I don't know. 597 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 2: That's questions out here. 598 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually did read that. I actually read that 599 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: series of my summer break this year. 600 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 2: Oh really, I think I wasn't a fan. 601 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: I was, I wasn't a fan. I actually didn't love it. 602 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: I didn't love it. It was just at my beach 603 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: house and I had forgotten to bring a book because 604 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: I was hiking beforehand, and it was the only thing that. 605 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: Funnily enough, they actually had three copies, so it was 606 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: like me. Yeah, So it was like me and my 607 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: cousin and one of my best friends. We were all 608 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: reading it fun We book clubbed it like an accident. 609 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 2: Of what was the debrief? 610 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: Like, I think it was like, you know, it was 611 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: so funny. At one point she won't mind me saying this, 612 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: but my cousin was like, got to this part that 613 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: I knew was like particularly spicy, and then she's like, 614 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go upstairs. Yeah, And I was like, you, 615 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: I think that is so valid. I think like our 616 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: consensus on it was like this is not actually that 617 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: appealing because it would be like I think the one 618 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: thing that I noticed about it was in all the 619 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: sex scenes, it was like she came really quickly. She 620 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: came within like three minutes, and I was like, and 621 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: then she'd be like, oh, wave of pleasure, and then 622 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: like he just kept going and then we would die. Yeah, 623 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: And I was like I do think. Yeah, anyhow, here's 624 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: my book review. Guys, no one asked for it, but 625 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: fifty Shades a great book group. 626 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 2: I mean, fifty Shades blew open the idea of what 627 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 2: a romance novel could be, which I think many people 628 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 2: felt was like kind of this dowdy old school thing 629 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 2: and that's cool, Like that did amazing work, But was 630 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 2: it the best written version of what sex at its 631 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 2: most aspirational and sexy could be. I think most people think, no, 632 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: you know, the power dynamics at play there could have 633 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 2: been a lot more nuanced, and the pleasure could have 634 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 2: been a lot more mutual and like, listen to each 635 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: their own, Like some people love that book absolutely awesome, 636 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 2: power to you. 637 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: But there. 638 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 2: There needs to be more versions of what like a 639 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 2: really sexy piece of media can look like. And I 640 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 2: honestly I give credit to shows like Bridgerton that are 641 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: trying to figure those things out on the big screen, 642 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: which again wasn't happening five years ago. So I think, 643 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 2: like talk about generational shifts, like what millennials were consuming 644 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 2: is different than what gen z is consuming, Like it 645 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 2: literally is a different world of content out there. 646 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: Obviously, we've spent a large part of this episode talking 647 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: about sex, and sex is fun and sex is fascinating 648 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: and interesting. People love talking about sex. But there are 649 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: some other things about your life right now, your experience, 650 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: that I think would be equally valuable to share with 651 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: people in their twenties. The first one being that we 652 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: have almost a well we have a decade between us, 653 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: so you're kind of like you're kind of me in 654 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: my thirties, right, like where I'm at in my twenties 655 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: in your fingxactly. And I think that there is at 656 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: least around me in the people. I see this like 657 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: ending doom associated with turning thirty, and it's almost like 658 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: the clock ticks over. One of my friends the other 659 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: day said to me, she was like, oh, what did 660 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: she say? She was like, oh, thirty is when when 661 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: women die, like no longer I know. I was like, 662 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: I was like, I do people feel like, excuse me? 663 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: I know, I know. I was like, Clare, that is 664 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: not what we want to hear. But you are post thirties. 665 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: How has it been. What's what's been some of the 666 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: learnings in the new outlook on life? If there has 667 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: been one? 668 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know. I'm thirty three. So the 669 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 2: pandemic started when I was twenty nine. So like right 670 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,239 Speaker 2: at the tail end of my twenties, I think all 671 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 2: of us in some ways felt like we were disrupted, 672 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: like we last something, we last college years, or we 673 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 2: lost like transition years in our twenties, or we lost 674 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: you know, I lost turning thirty, like that was just 675 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 2: lost to the wind of the pandemic. So there is 676 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 2: something unique and present right here and now. But you know, 677 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 2: speaking from my experience, my twenties were interesting because ten 678 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 2: years ago, fifteen years ago, it wasn't as common as 679 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 2: it is today to have queer friends that were out 680 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 2: of the closet when I was eighteen, or when I 681 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 2: was twenty or even when I was twenty three, Like, 682 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 2: I had plenty of friends that one of my friends 683 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 2: affectionately calls baby queers that were figuring out what it 684 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 2: means to feel safe out in the world as someone 685 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 2: who's stated as clear. And for those folks, you know, 686 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 2: you're working through that feeling of you should be more 687 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 2: experienced but aren't, and that can be really challenging you 688 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: in your twenties. And I think there's versions of that 689 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 2: that happened in our thirties too, Like we are all 690 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 2: baby clearing in some ways. Where maybe you hit thirty 691 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 2: and I've had this for plenty of friends and you're 692 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 2: deeper in monogamy with someone, you've been with someone for 693 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 2: a longer time, and you're like, hey, I actually want 694 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 2: to figure out not how to not how to have 695 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 2: good sex, but how to have great sex. What is 696 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 2: that going to look like for me. So I actually 697 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,959 Speaker 2: see a lot of interests start to spike in maybe 698 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 2: like the twenty eight twenty nine zone, where people are like, 699 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 2: I want a self love journey, I want to love 700 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 2: my body, I want to enjoy sex. I want to 701 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 2: expand what my understanding of sex is. Maybe I want 702 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 2: to open up my relationship. There's like more play happening 703 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 2: with not just I want to have sex and I 704 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 2: want to have as much of it as possible, but like, 705 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 2: I really want to focus on quality, and I think 706 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 2: that that's really a big shift in the thirties. It's like, 707 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 2: how do I really focus on what quality is like 708 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 2: to me? Which is amazing. I think people always talk 709 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 2: about you feel less pressure as you grow older. I mean, 710 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 2: I don't know, you feel pressure in different ways, but 711 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 2: I think there's a little bit less of this, like 712 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 2: I need to be out. I don't know, tallying my 713 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: body account would be the worst way to say it, 714 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 2: but like out there and like pushing myself and I'm tired, 715 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,959 Speaker 2: but I'm gonna go out on a Thursday. We feel 716 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 2: that less, I think, generally speaking in our thirties, but 717 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 2: we can still really attend to the moment we are 718 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 2: in our sexual journey and it's not finished. You know, 719 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,919 Speaker 2: life certainly doesn't end at thirty. I love being thirty three. 720 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 2: I love being into my thirties. I think I can 721 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 2: definitely say that I love myself more now than I 722 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 2: did ten years ago, and I hope that that keeps growing. 723 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: And you know, the ernie is always there and bino 724 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 2: libido shifts right Like you might be twenty three and 725 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 2: a really little lebido at the time because your boss 726 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 2: is horrible and you're working super long hours, or you're 727 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 2: having body shame images, body image issues, and there's all 728 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 2: sorts of stuff going on, and then you might come 729 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 2: out of that and have a renaissance at thirty three. 730 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 2: You might have a renaissance at forty. Like the moments 731 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 2: that we're having the best sex in our lives are 732 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 2: certainly not maintained or like bound by our twenties. I 733 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 2: think actually most people that I speak to that are 734 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 2: past their twenties say they're having better sex now than 735 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 2: they did then. So it's ahead of you. Look forward 736 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: to it. There's a lot more life to live. I 737 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 2: think the greater interest in sexual self discovery is kind 738 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 2: of the big one that I feel really excited by. 739 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,919 Speaker 2: You know, what does that look like for me? What's 740 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 2: that going to feel? Like? How am I going to 741 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 2: bring that out? What class am I going to take? 742 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 2: Am I gonna take a Shabari class? Am I gonna 743 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 2: learn to love my body through a dance class? 744 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: Like? 745 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 2: I see a lot more of that. It's a little 746 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 2: bit more like high intention, which I really respect. 747 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: What's a shabari class? 748 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,839 Speaker 2: Rope tang? Like a complex kind of art but also 749 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 2: like a form of BDSM that involves knots and ropes. 750 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: Oh my god, wow, fascinating. There we go. I'm learning. 751 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: I had no idea what that was, but super super cool. 752 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 1: It's also good to hear I think that the best 753 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: is yet to come. It is such a trend like 754 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,839 Speaker 1: hearing that I do think that our twenty so like 755 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: the quantity is yeah, we're like how many sexual experiences 756 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: can I have? How much alcohol can I drink? How 757 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 1: many countries can I visit? How many like you're mosting 758 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: really hard? How much money can I make? Like everything 759 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: is like yeah, it's like I just want the maximum 760 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: of everything, the maximum pleasure, And it's kind of tiring 761 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: to be honest and sometimes I just want like I'm like, 762 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: I'm cool with like the bare minimum. 763 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 2: Well, maybe that's another thing that I can speak to. 764 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 2: That you're thirty four, I think you give yourself a 765 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 2: lot more leeway to like feel the feeling that you're feeling, 766 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,439 Speaker 2: and if that feeling is t that's okay, and that's 767 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 2: really liberating. I mean, I don't know if you're familiar 768 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 2: with the account then ministry, but I think it's like 769 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 2: really powerful stuff, yeah, around liberation coming from allowing yourself 770 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 2: to feel what you feel and if that feeling is tired, 771 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 2: to embrace it. 772 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's also a massive shift in psychology 773 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: as well. Of Previously it was around treating the negative thoughts, 774 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: treating the self criticism, treating whatever's going on, and the 775 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: way to like treat it was to like shame it 776 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: out of ourselves or to suppress it, or to be 777 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: like go for a run, like go and do this, 778 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: go and distract yourself. And nowadays it's more like, actually 779 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,839 Speaker 1: you need to sit with them, and anything else is 780 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: actually just going to exacerbate that feeling, that distress, whatever 781 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: that urge is. So you need to really like embrace 782 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: the good and the bad, which I think is such 783 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: a part of positive psychology and like more holistic psychology 784 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: that's like really coming through in this in this like 785 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: new generation of psychologists, so super fascinating. The other thing 786 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: I want to talk about is your journey through entrepreneurship. 787 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: I know it hasn't it has actually does have stuff 788 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: to do with sex. I know this is just like 789 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: a sex episode. Obviously you started Dipsy. How has that 790 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: been because I think we were talking about this before 791 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: we started recording like that. Yeah, yeah, I know we 792 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,439 Speaker 1: should have started recording then, but it's still gonna be great. Yeah, 793 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: around like your journey through entrepreneurship, I feel like everyone 794 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: is fascinated by how you can start a business, what 795 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: makes a business, all of those kinds of things. Can 796 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: you talk us through were you working elsewhere before, like 797 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: the whole journey would be would be great to hear 798 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 1: your path through. 799 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this could take hour or so, I'll 800 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 2: try and keep it brief. So before I started Dipsy, 801 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 2: I was a brand strategist, So I was helping brands 802 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 2: figure out how to meet people where they are with 803 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 2: what they could authentically offer and tell stories that people liked, 804 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 2: were interested in, and so storytelling was always part of 805 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 2: the mix. I studied psychology and undergrad and oh I 806 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 2: got I didn't. And I have always been really curious 807 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 2: about what people want, what makes them tick, and why 808 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 2: they do different things than what they state that they want, 809 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 2: just really you know, just fascinating stuff, just the baseline 810 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 2: of you know, human behavior. And then I met my 811 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 2: co founder, and it was right around the time that 812 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 2: I had this idea. And I think the moment that 813 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 2: you take the idea to the reality of like, I'm 814 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 2: quitting my job, I will not be making money, I'm 815 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 2: going to put all of my eggs in this basket 816 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 2: definitely helps when you have someone who is equally passionate 817 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 2: about that idea. So I think that we really supported 818 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 2: each other when the other was feeling a little bit 819 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 2: like ah, the other person was there to be you know, 820 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 2: there's only room for one person at a time to 821 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 2: be having a freak out, right, and so we got 822 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 2: to balance each other in those ways and be like, no, 823 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 2: this is really compelling the researches here and why. 824 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: While I was a. 825 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 2: Natural storyteller and was excited to figure out what this 826 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,760 Speaker 2: content was going to sound like Fay is an engineer, 827 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 2: and Fay knows how to build a product, and so 828 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 2: we were kind of a perfect team to make it happen. 829 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 2: So I think finding for someone that you have good 830 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 2: fit with but also someone who you really trust and 831 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 2: really like matters a lot. Like you're going to be 832 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 2: spending so much time with whoever you decide to be 833 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 2: your business partner, should you follow that path, so that 834 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 2: selection matters. And I would say that mattered in the 835 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 2: last five years even more than my romantic partner, if 836 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 2: you can believe it, We've spent so much time together, 837 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 2: like in many ways she is my other partner. 838 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 1: Really all that's actually quite beautiful to hear that. Also, 839 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,399 Speaker 1: that fear of like transitioning from being like I've quit 840 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: my job to doing this, that is so scary. 841 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 2: It's so high conviction, right, like you are really saying 842 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 2: and I really believe this, and then you are asked 843 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 2: questions every day to push back on whether what you 844 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 2: believe is true, and so you have many chances a 845 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,839 Speaker 2: day to be like, do I still believe this? Right? 846 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 2: And you really just have to keep believing it. And 847 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,839 Speaker 2: I think that if that feels excited because you feel 848 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 2: such high conviction in something that's amazing and otherwise wait 849 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 2: for an idea that really makes you feel that way, 850 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 2: because that conviction will be tested on a daily basis, 851 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 2: and there will be many people that don't believe. And 852 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 2: that's hard. That knocks your ego. I really had to 853 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 2: work on my self esteem through that problem, Like, what 854 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 2: if not everyone thinks this is what I should be 855 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 2: spending my time doing. What if not everyone thinks this 856 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 2: will work? What if not everyone thinks this is important. 857 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 2: It's hard enough already just every day figuring out how 858 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 2: to do it, but it's harder when other people don't 859 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 2: necessarily think it's yeah. You know, does a fifty year 860 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,319 Speaker 2: old white man who my dad's business partner think that 861 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 2: Dipsy's is important as a twenty five year old who 862 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 2: is so excited this product exists. Of course not, but 863 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 2: there are people like that, and so finding that people 864 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 2: that remind you of why this matters to you and 865 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 2: reminds you of as being important along the journey is 866 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 2: also really huge. We were talking about that earlier too. 867 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 2: It's helpful in the world of podcasting, you're like alone 868 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 2: a lot. It's helpful to get ot there and be 869 00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 2: like Wow, I meet you and you really like what 870 00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 2: I'm doing. That's amazing. 871 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: It's also what you were talking about, the idea that 872 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: comes along. I've watched this amazing Ted talk the other 873 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: day that was explaining how ancient civilizations used to think 874 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: that the ideas lived in the walls and in the wind, 875 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: and so like an idea would come to you in 876 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: the wind and you had to like grab it, and 877 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: you had like a responsibility to grab it out and 878 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: hold on to it super tight because and you can 879 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: see the ideas like floating by. I think a lot 880 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: of people have like million dollar ideas on a daily basis. 881 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: I think everyone has had a million dollar idea, but 882 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: it's like they just let it float by then grab 883 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: it and it is it takes a lot of courage 884 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: to do both things. I think it takes a lot 885 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,320 Speaker 1: of courage to be like, oh, you know, I actually 886 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: have a family right now and I can't do that 887 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 1: or I need to focus on my studies, but also 888 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: a lot of courage to be like you know, I 889 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: think that was my experience. I was like the first 890 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: couple of months first year, it was like I didn't 891 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: get any listens I've really it was just like my 892 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: family and close friends, and it just like you just 893 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: got to push through and believe in what you're doing exactly. 894 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 2: Maybe those are my two biggest learnings. 895 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: Is that possible? 896 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 2: Could I boil it out to two, that'd be a miracle. 897 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 2: But I think, you know, what you just said is 898 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 2: so right, Like there are some people that say, like, 899 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 2: I have the grit and I'm willing to push through it, 900 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,759 Speaker 2: and I'm willing to deal with a year maybe even 901 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:19,960 Speaker 2: more where I'm not getting the feedback that I want yet, 902 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 2: but I just believe and I keep pushing. And there 903 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 2: are other people that think like that actually sounds more 904 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 2: terrifying than fun. And I don't know if I have 905 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 2: that sort of grit. And I actually feel really happy 906 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 2: pursuing something where someone is telling me what they need 907 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 2: and I'm doing my job really well, and that is 908 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 2: an equally respectable path. And in many ways I envy 909 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 2: that in my hardest days because being entrepreneurs, like, oh 910 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 2: my god, is responsibilities on me all the time or 911 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 2: me my co founder all the time. So talk about 912 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,400 Speaker 2: the shame thing, It's like, there's no shame in finding 913 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,240 Speaker 2: what works for you and entrepreneurship definitely isn't for everyone, 914 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 2: but if you really feel excited to hold tight to 915 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,319 Speaker 2: that idea and like you just want to prove and 916 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,319 Speaker 2: like great, grab it. And your twenties are a great 917 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 2: time for that because you're full of energy and like, 918 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 2: you know, what else are you doing? Let's just try it, 919 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 2: and so it's an amazing time. It's an amazing time. 920 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: Also, I think if you fuck up, it's like that 921 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 1: was my whole thing. I was like, I have nothing 922 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 1: to lose by doing this. I have nothing to lose, 923 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 1: like if I fuck up, Yeah, it's like I really was, 924 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: like and also when when am I going to do this? Otherwise? Like, yeah, 925 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 1: when else am I going to take this risk? You 926 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,839 Speaker 1: know in my you know, things could happen at any point, 927 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 1: like yeah, you have children, you have a mortgage, like 928 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,799 Speaker 1: you're getting promoted your family members. Ill, like I need 929 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 1: to go back and do this, like do my master's. 930 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 1: I need to. Like I think that it was just 931 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,880 Speaker 1: such a sometimes everything just kind of aligns, but like 932 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: you will be texted. I've learned that like the universe, 933 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 1: the universe, like some like I think that anything worth 934 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: having isn't easy. Otherwise everyone would have it so wise 935 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: I know that such like it. Sometimes people like yeah, 936 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: sometimes people give me, like give me a little bit 937 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 1: of flack for that. They're like, yeah, a lot of 938 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: things that are worth having it easy. But I'm like, yeah, 939 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 1: but I think that there are some things that aren't, 940 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: you know, like not everyone everyone wants a goal. Yeah 941 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 1: I want an Olympic medal. 942 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:16,400 Speaker 2: Right. The phrase that I like to use is like, 943 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 2: what game do you want to be playing and what 944 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,840 Speaker 2: pain are you willing to tolerate? And so maybe you 945 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 2: are the kind of person who can really deal with 946 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,680 Speaker 2: challenging personalities and that's just like kind of you know, 947 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 2: water off your back. 948 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 1: It's it's not. 949 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,360 Speaker 2: Super stressful to you, but for other people that's like 950 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,480 Speaker 2: intensely uncomfortable. And so maybe you know, being a nurse 951 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 2: in a hospital isn't the job for you because that 952 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 2: is like sort of pain that you'd be encountering on 953 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 2: a daily basis. Okay, so maybe that's not the game 954 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,919 Speaker 2: that you play, but yeah, life is. I think about 955 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 2: picking the games that you want to play and knowing 956 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 2: that like, no path is going to be like default wonderful. 957 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,880 Speaker 2: There's all there's so many things about being entrepreneurs are 958 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 2: so wonderful. You pick who you work with, you choose 959 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 2: the problems you want to work on, you decide how 960 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,520 Speaker 2: you want to spend your time, and you own them. Like, 961 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,279 Speaker 2: those are really amazing things. But the downside of that, 962 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 2: if you don't like it is you feel like, oh 963 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:05,880 Speaker 2: my god, I have all this time. What am I 964 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 2: supposed to do with it? How am I supposed to 965 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 2: organize it? How am I supposed to use it? I 966 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 2: have to pick people. That's so hard, Like, I don't 967 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 2: like hiring. I find that really stressful. Like there's all 968 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:15,759 Speaker 2: sorts of ways that you can see the same thing 969 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:21,359 Speaker 2: in two different directions, And yeah, so probably I could 970 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,759 Speaker 2: bring that all the way back to what feels good 971 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,800 Speaker 2: for you, Like if you're paying attention to what feels 972 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 2: good for you and you're like, I end this day 973 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:32,319 Speaker 2: feeling like it was exhausting, but I'm not depleted, I'm 974 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:32,880 Speaker 2: just tired. 975 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:33,800 Speaker 1: Cool. 976 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a difference there. 977 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: Jana, thank you so much for coming on the show. 978 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,879 Speaker 1: This is possibly one of my favorite episodes. I don't 979 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,560 Speaker 1: know why I haven't spoken about sex and pleasure before. 980 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 1: There's so much psychology and like so many facets of 981 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,799 Speaker 1: it that definitely need to be explored more. I want 982 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 1: to also say this episode was not sponsored. I just 983 00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:01,760 Speaker 1: really love dipsy. It was not sponsored in any capacity. However, 984 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,279 Speaker 1: if you do want to download this app, experience it's 985 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:11,279 Speaker 1: some amazing storytelling, it's some amazing audio content. It's a 986 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,879 Speaker 1: little bit different to mine. You can go to what's 987 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 1: it dipsy dot com slash psych twenty. 988 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 2: No, you can head two dipsystories dot com slash Psych twenty. 989 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 2: That's dip sea stories dot com slash psych twenty. 990 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: There you go and you get. 991 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 2: You'll get thirty days free, so you can explore literally 992 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,439 Speaker 2: every piece of content to your heart's desire for thirty 993 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:34,360 Speaker 2: days and decide if it's right. 994 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 1: Breathe, Oh my goodness, look at that. It's free. You 995 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,759 Speaker 1: may as well do it. You may as well just 996 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,400 Speaker 1: download it for thirty days and listen to some fun stories, 997 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,000 Speaker 1: do some exploring. Yeah, do some exploring. I think that's 998 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,000 Speaker 1: really really valuable. 999 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,240 Speaker 2: And I would also definitely say follow us on TikTok 1000 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,719 Speaker 2: and Instagram. We put all sorts of fun content, educational 1001 00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,440 Speaker 2: content out there that's at dipsy stories on both TikTok 1002 00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 2: and Instagram. I think the stuff we put up there 1003 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 2: is amazing, and our social media manager is a wizard. 1004 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,839 Speaker 1: Actually, I did see something on TikTok the other day 1005 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: and it was like one of your stories, like your 1006 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,440 Speaker 1: stories and like yeah, and it was like over this 1007 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 1: like tree backdrop, and I was like, wow, who. 1008 00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:15,200 Speaker 2: We targeted your effect? 1009 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,239 Speaker 1: Oh my god to hear you're my alcohol and just 1010 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: like and I follow I follow you guys, but not okay, yeah, 1011 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,239 Speaker 1: but like this one in particular was like I was like, 1012 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 1: it's spoke me out. Yeah, it was really good. I 1013 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: literally was like, oh, when you listen to a cute 1014 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,759 Speaker 1: little story, Thank you so much again for coming on. 1015 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 1: I really think that what you're doing is amazing. Thank 1016 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,840 Speaker 1: you so much for listening to today's episode. As always, 1017 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,279 Speaker 1: if you feel cool to do so, please feel free 1018 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,120 Speaker 1: to leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 1019 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: wherever you're listening right now. Make sure you go and 1020 00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,359 Speaker 1: check out dipsy of course, and if you have an 1021 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,920 Speaker 1: episode suggestion. If you just want to follow along, please 1022 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,719 Speaker 1: follow me at that Psychology podcast on Instagram and on 1023 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,520 Speaker 1: TikTok to see what's coming out, to see what we 1024 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,120 Speaker 1: have in the works. We would love to see you 1025 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,319 Speaker 1: over there and as always, have a lovely week. We 1026 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,920 Speaker 1: will be back with another episode in a couple of 1027 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 1: days