1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Before we begin, please note this series includes talk of 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: suicide and sexual violence. Please take care while listening. Badge, bunny, holster, sniffer, 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: road hog. As I've reported the story, a couple of 4 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: new terms were forced into my lexicon. I had to 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: google them, but I sensed the be derogatory, and I 6 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: was right in the most crude fashion. They're used to 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: describe women who have sex with cops on duty. These 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: were terms that were used by various people trying to 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: explain Sandy's connections to local cops. People who were trying 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: to assure me that these relationships must have been consensual, 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: that Sandy just wanted it. She was a self professed 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: cop freak, after all the bells. They saw this coming back. 13 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: When I told them what I found out about the 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: ten cops ups, their initial reaction was, here comes the mud. 15 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: They knew that some would judge and blame Sandy. It's 16 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: a pretty incredible attempt at totally deflecting responsibility. Jill Filipovic 17 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: is a feminist author and lawyer. I asked her what 18 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: she made of these terms, like if the telling is okay, 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: this girl was just a badge bunny, a pistol sniffer. 20 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: That really does remove the bigger picture, which is that 21 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: in this particular case, it was a group of adult 22 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: men who are in charge of this teenage girl. I 23 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: have no hard evidence that Sandy didn't consent to these 24 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 1: relationships with PG County Police, but even if she did consent, 25 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean these relationships were appropriate. Consent can be coerced. 26 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: Consent can be a product of fear or a desire 27 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: to please or just to avoid a messy scene. Consent 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: is an important concept, but it has limitations when it's 29 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: used as the soul factor for determining whether or not 30 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: sex is ethical. I think if we're just thinking of 31 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: it through this frame of did she consent or not, 32 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: then we missed the reality that the police officers in 33 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: this situation, they're the adults in the room. They have 34 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: responsibility to cultivate young entrance into their field. What instead 35 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: she's learning from these men on the force is that 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: she's a sexual object that she's expected or perhaps wanted 37 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: to have sex with them. Of course, it's possible that 38 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: a teenage girl is going to want to have sex 39 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: with ten different men in the same department, but that 40 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: strikes me as unlikely. What strikes me is more likely 41 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: is that this is a teenage girl who is just 42 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: sort of figuring out who she is as an adult, 43 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: who is just figuring out what it means to have 44 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: a job, what it means to enter a male dominated workforce. 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: All of her understanding of that is going to be 46 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: shaped by the expectations that are set by the men 47 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: who are already doing that job. Before Sandy died, she 48 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: wrote something that gets to the heart of how these 49 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: relationships made her feel. Quote but as always, they have 50 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,119 Speaker 1: their fun and the hell with you? Why me? Why 51 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: do I get sucked over so bad? From my Heart Radio, 52 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: I'm Melissa Jolson and this is what happened to Sandy 53 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: Beale and I Heart original podcast, Chapter four, The Stink. 54 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: My belief that a number of PG County police officers 55 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: who are having inappropriate relationships with Sandy is largely based 56 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: on Detective Schelski's recollection that he was inundated with phone 57 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: calls after her death. Were cops all but admitted to it? 58 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: What did you make of her spending all this time 59 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: and having sexual relationships with police officers? I knew it was, 60 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: I didn't imagine the best. Years later that a steak 61 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: is going to come back fro. When Detective Selski initially 62 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: told me about the phone calls, it was an offhand 63 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: remark that he didn't seem to attribute much meaning to. 64 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: That's how I interpreted his tone, anyway. But I've spoken 65 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: to him a number of times since, and he told 66 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,119 Speaker 1: me that he too believes that Sandy was horribly used 67 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: mistreated by his fellow cops. They were all right, often 68 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: considerably older, and she was just a kid, you know 69 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: what I mean. And uh, I feel though that they 70 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: should have never done what they did. You know. It 71 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: was just it's a relief to hear Detective Selski acknowledged 72 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: this outright, as I've spent much of the last year 73 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: exploring the extent of this ethical behavior, and I want 74 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: to recap what I've uncovered so far. Sandy started going 75 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: on ride alongs in her senior year of high school 76 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: at just eighteen years old. At the time of her death, 77 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: she was in a relationship with one cop, a married 78 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: state trooper named Doug. Her body was found a mile 79 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: away from his place of work in a pollard that 80 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: was known to be frequented by cops. There was sperm 81 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: in her body, her family recalled that she would socialize 82 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: with police officers at night. Her address books were filled 83 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: with the names and numbers of local cops, including some 84 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: that I've been able to confirm participated in the Explorer 85 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: program at that time. But honestly, there's a limit to 86 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: the knowledge I can gather about Sandy's relationships with local cops, 87 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: and at this point, I feel like I've hit it. 88 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: Unless I get some new information. That doesn't mean I'm 89 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: going to stop probing the question of what all this means. 90 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: I think we owe it to Sandy to contemplate the 91 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: scenario in which the team was victimized by a group 92 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: of police officers, because I think it's very possible that 93 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: that's what happened. Being deliberately and different to the suffering 94 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: of women is historic and society, and it certainly reflects 95 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: it in law enforcements. So that's what you saw. Mark 96 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: Wynn is an expert in police violence. He's a retired 97 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: police officer who now works to train other police officers 98 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: how to better handle crimes against women. I've interviewed him 99 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: in the past, and I trust his instincts, and if 100 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: anybody wants to debate me on this, I'm more than 101 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: happy to do it. I mean, I'm not somebody just 102 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: read this somewhere. I spent my entire adult life working 103 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: in law enforcement, so I know my family well. Mark 104 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: started policing in nineteen seventy seven, the same year Sandy died. 105 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: He looks like what you might envision when you think 106 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: of a cop. He's tall and broad shouldered and has 107 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: a thick mustache. He's also one of the most courteous 108 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: and patient individuals I've ever met. If you ever have 109 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: to call the cops, you'd want someone like Mark to 110 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: show up. Well, all you have to do is look 111 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: at the history of policing in our country. You know 112 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: the country. It's been a job for men, managed by men, 113 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: run by men, and that's true for the most part 114 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: in the entire criminal justice system. I think when you 115 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: exclude women from any you know, function, social or government, uh, 116 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: and put a bunch of men together in the room, Uh, 117 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna have problems. I told him what I had 118 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: learned so far about Sandy, my life as a cop freak, Doug, 119 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: the phone calls, the ten cops, all of it. I mean, 120 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: there there's a potential there for someone to take advantage 121 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: of that relationship, no question about it. First of all, 122 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: you're not talking about an emotionally mature person, Um, you're 123 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: talking about somebody's you know, very easily. The influence with 124 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: an offender is the perfect setting. You have authority, you're 125 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: telling these folks what to do. So can you imagine 126 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: what this what this young woman must have been thinking 127 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: right along this police car. You know, teenager with a 128 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: with an adult with a gun and a badge, with 129 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: full authority, So it must have been pretty intimidating. Mark 130 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: was pretty blunt and forthcoming with his theory about Sandy's case, 131 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: and he told me he'd seen things like it before. 132 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: I suspect and from what I've seen in other situations, 133 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: they were passing around from one alstar to the next. 134 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: You know, she young, impressionable woman and they knew it. 135 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: That's what made her vulnerable. And nobody with any moral 136 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: fiber obviously stepped in and said, what is going on here? 137 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: It happened at my academy, Um. You know, instructors extorting 138 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: young women for a scores on their tests, singling out 139 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: women who they wanted to secually abuse. Well, and this 140 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: is the thing about predation, um, it works better for 141 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: the predator if your victim is vulnerable, and what more 142 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: vulnerable place than, you know, a desperate young person trying 143 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: to start a Korean law enforcement For Mark, the sheer 144 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: number of officers involved with Sandy made them suspicious. It's 145 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: highly likely that they weren't as close knit as police 146 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: departments are, weren't talking about all this and sharing information. 147 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: It almost sounded like she was being trafficked from one 148 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: officer to the next. Tractors obviously make money off of it, 149 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: but they weren't making money. If this is the case, 150 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: they were passion around for sexual gratification. Mark's theory is 151 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: that these police officers they use their power and authority 152 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: for sexually motivated reasons. There's actually a term for that 153 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: police sexual misconduct, and for victims who experience it, it 154 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: can be an extremely isolating kind of abuse. Well, this 155 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: is the thing with any kind of misconduct. I mean 156 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: the fact that you have a uniform and you represent authority, 157 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: and you know this is somebody using that authority for 158 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: another reason. This is somebody you when they tell you to 159 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: to do something, you obey it, and most people do 160 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: they follow them all there. You know, they don't want 161 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: to get in trouble with the police. I want to 162 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: take you down a short tangent now, because I don't 163 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: think you can understand Sandy's story without knowing more about 164 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: the culture that allows this kind of abuse to flourish. 165 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: And it does flourish because despite very few victims wanting 166 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: to come forward. Sexual misconduct is the second most frequently 167 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: reported form of police misconduct, according to research by the 168 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: Cato Institute. Police sexual misconduct is a dry term, but 169 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: it encompasses a wide range of troubling behavior, everything from 170 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: stopping a car without cause to flirt with the driver 171 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: to a sexual shakedown, which is when an officer extorts 172 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: sexual favors in exchange for not ticketing or arresting the person. 173 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: And a lot of police sexual misconduct isn't actually criminal. 174 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: It is, however, totally unethical. Take, for instance, an officer 175 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: who responds to a domestic violence call and uses it 176 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: as an opportunity to have sex with a distraught victim. 177 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: In a number of states, it's even legal to have 178 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: sex with someone in your custody. To learn more, I 179 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: tracked down one of the few experts that actually studies 180 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: this stuff. My name is Timothy Maher and I am 181 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: a professor in the Criminology and Criminal Justice Department at 182 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: the University of Missouri St. Louis. Timothy also used to 183 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: be a cop. He spent thirteen years as a police 184 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: officer in La dou Missouri. I was watching a news 185 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: magazine television show back in the early two thousands, and 186 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: they did a story on a case in New York 187 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: State where a police officer was pulling women over under 188 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: the pretense of a d w I stop. He told 189 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: the young woman that he was going to cut her 190 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: a break, but he still had to punish her in 191 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: some way. So he said, as your punishment, I'm going 192 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: to make you walk home, and you also have to 193 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: take all your clothes off. So she was afraid. It 194 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: was dark and all alone, it was kind of a 195 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: remote area, and so she reluctantly agreed, and he graciously 196 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: let her keep her shoes on because she said it 197 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: hurt to walk into her bare feet. Timothy quickly discovered 198 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: that there was very little research on police sexual misconduct. 199 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: We don't even have answers to basic questions like how 200 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: prevalent it is. We have no way of knowing how 201 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: much of this behavior goes on. Many people are reluctant 202 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: to report on the police when these incidents occur. They 203 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: might report to someone else sexually assaulted them, but when 204 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: a police officer sexually assaults them, they often think twice 205 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: about it, and many of them frankly don't report it. 206 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: And when victims do report, it's generally their word against 207 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: a sworn police officer. The cover of darkness plays a role. 208 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: It's it seems funny, but a lot of this behavior 209 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: goes on after hours when there's very few other people 210 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: around to witness it, and everybody else goes to bed, 211 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: but there's a few people out there still roaming around, 212 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: and then there's the police, because the police work at night. 213 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: You know, you can stop a car, if you want 214 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: to stop a car, you can get out and walk 215 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: around and confront people and ask them to come over 216 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: and even voluntarily talk to me or involuntarily, but there's 217 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: no one there to stop you. Really, the truth is 218 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: police typically in our society and our culture are are 219 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: you know, have the authority and power and this opportunity 220 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: to engage. I learned something interesting about the role of 221 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: group dynamics. Bad behavior can be concentrated to a single 222 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: shift or a particular group of officers. The day shift 223 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: could be fine, for example, but certain night shifts may 224 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: tolerate deviant behavior. One study looking at the Chicago p 225 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: D found that officers who worked with colleagues who used 226 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: excessive force were more likely to engage in the same 227 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: kind of conduct. The behavior was contagious, as the studies 228 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: senior author wrote, quote, officers peers may serve as social 229 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: conduits through which misconduct is learned and transmitted, but there 230 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: is that culture of not reporting on fellow officers generally 231 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: in law enforcement, not just for sexual misconduct, but for 232 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: lots of behaviors. Timothy has interviewed numerous police officers about 233 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: their perceptions of police sexual misconduct. In one two thousand 234 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: and three study, he found that while police officers believed 235 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: that sexual misconduct was common quote, criminal justice officials have 236 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: done little to help control the problem, suggesting that this 237 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: problem may in part be fostered by the police subculture. 238 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: The officers I spoke with said they drew the line 239 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: though at very serious criminal behavior, inappropriate comments the sex 240 00:15:54,560 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: on duty, minor violations of rules and regulations, where you 241 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: know what, they don't report on each other it's the 242 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: blue wall of silence. It's that you just don't deal 243 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: with that. Most of them would say, I'm not their supervisor. 244 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: I don't have to deal with them. That's the boss's 245 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: job now. I interviewed sergeants and lieutenants to what I 246 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: learned was that, you know, it wasn't unique just to 247 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: the patrol officers. Are the non ranking officers that you know, 248 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: ranking and supervising officers were engaging in this behavior as well. 249 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: I want to take you back to fo P Lodge 250 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: number eighty nine, the cop club in Prince George's County, 251 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: the place where Sandy's family said she would get drinks 252 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: with police after hours, except instead of ninety seven, it's 253 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: exactly forty years later. It's two am, and a group 254 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: of cops are grabbing drinks. Some of them are still 255 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: in uniform, including a young woman and who I'll call Marie. 256 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: She's just a few years out of the academy and 257 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: she's hanging out with her coworkers and her lieutenant, who 258 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: all called David. The lounge closes and the group migrates 259 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: outside to the parking lot. After a while, Marie really 260 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: needs to pee, so she walks into the woods for 261 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: some privacy. On her way back, in the darkness, she's 262 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: pulled to the ground. Her lieutenant David has grabbed her. 263 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: He thrust his hands down her trousers, sexually assaulting her. 264 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: Marie doesn't officially report the incident, fearing retribution. Even as 265 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: a new cop, she understands the consequences of squealing on 266 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: a fellow officer, But news of what happened gets around 267 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: the department, and two years later she's called into internal 268 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: affairs and asked about the incident. She speaks her truth. 269 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: After David is charged with sexual assault, Marie's working environment 270 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: becomes one of intimidation and fear. She's shunned by her 271 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: colleagues and blamed for the prosecution of her abuser, even 272 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: receiving a threat via text. In a brazen show of 273 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: solidarity with her lieutenant, high ranking police officers packed the 274 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: courtroom to support him at trial. Ultimately, he's found guilty 275 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: and sentenced to seven years in prison. Marie is reassigned 276 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: to the evidence department, in effect a desk job. She 277 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: later leaves PG County Police due to what she describes 278 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: as a hostile working environment. Marie might have thought she 279 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: was one of the boys, but she wasn't part of 280 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: the brotherhood. Marie, she didn't just lose her job. Trauma 281 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: has a cost. It costs time, money, energy, and it 282 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: costs Marie her peace of mind. After the assault, she 283 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: reported having nightmares, crying spells, heightened anxiety. This attack and 284 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: the culture that tolerated it had ousted her from a 285 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: community she worked so hard to join, and then she 286 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: was blamed for her own downfall. All of this made 287 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: me think of Sandy. If Sandy was a victim of 288 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: some kind of police sexual abuse, I think it's fair 289 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: to assume it would have weighed heavily on her mental 290 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: health too. One more secret the teen had to carry. 291 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: Police sexual misconduct has been a problem in our profession 292 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: for decades. That's Tom Tremblay. He's a former police chief 293 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: with a thirty year career in law enforcement. These days, 294 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: he works to advise police departments on how to respond 295 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: to domestic violence and sexual misconduct, including within its own ranks. 296 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: You can't talk about policing without a really courageous conversation 297 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: about male dominated culture, about hyper masculinity, and this is 298 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: something that our profession hasn't done. And I when I 299 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: taught when I address hyper masculinity and male privilege and 300 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: trainings around the country, I'm oftentimes met, you know, in 301 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: this male dominated culture with what do you mean male privilege? 302 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: What do you mean hyper masculinity? In Tom helped to 303 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: author a model policy for how police departments should handle 304 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: sexual misconduct within the ranks. It prohibits using a law 305 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: enforcement position, badge or identification card to solicit initiate a 306 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: coerced sexual contact with anyone, and it explicitly banns sexual 307 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: contact with anyone in a police explorer program. You might 308 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: think that police departments would already have specific policies on 309 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: this issue, but Tom told me that many don't, and 310 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: so one of the major challenges that I see when 311 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: I talk to police leaders around the country is the 312 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: first thought process is, we don't need a policy to 313 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: tell officers they can't sexually harass or sexually assault colleagues 314 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: or citizens. We just don't need that. It's not necessary. 315 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: These police chiefs might not feel like it's necessary to 316 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: explain to their officers that they shouldn't break the law. 317 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: But a lot of police sexual misconduct isn't illegal, and 318 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: without it being clearly defined, it lives in this murky 319 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: space of being wrong but silently tolerated. One of the 320 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: policy components that I recommend that law enforcement consider is 321 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: that consent shall not be an affirmative defense for any 322 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: behavior that's addressed by prohibited conduct of sexual harassment or 323 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: sexual misconduct. Meaning a cop can't just justify breaking the 324 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: rules by saying that the victim consented simply because the 325 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: police the badge and the gun, and the authority to 326 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: you know, stop and detain someone, search someone, arrest someone, 327 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: take their freedom away. All of those things are interconnected. 328 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: Of course, a policy on police sexual misconduct is only 329 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: as good as its enforcement, but in a culture where 330 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: secrecy rains, mandating that such behavior must be reported can 331 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: help to break apart the blue wall of silence. If 332 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: someone sees something or suspects something, they're obligated to come forward, 333 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: not to turn away. The PG County Police Department does 334 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: not have a police sexual misconduct policy, though when I 335 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: asked a spokesperson about this, they sent me a few 336 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: pages on discrimination and sexual harassment. That policy only protects 337 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: employees from abuse by other employees and says nothing about 338 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: the general public. However, Maryland did pass a law in 339 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: that prohibits cops from having sex with the people they 340 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: interact with in the course of their duties, victims, witnesses, 341 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: and suspects. When Sandy started training to be a cop, 342 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: only two percent of law enforcement officers in the US 343 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: were women. That number grew to around by the end 344 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: of the nineties, and then it just stagnated. It has 345 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: remained virtually the same for over two decades. Compare that 346 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: to New Zealand, where I was born. They're about of 347 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: cops or women, and they have a goal of recruiting 348 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: women in order to better reflect the diverse communities that 349 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: they police. Like Mark Wind said, the consequences of leaving 350 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: women out of the room are severe. Not only can 351 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: it breed hyper masculinity, but it doesn't reflect the true 352 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: makeup of society. And there's evidence that women police differently 353 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: than men do. They're generally less authoritarian and less likely 354 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: to employ both excessive and deadly force, and they may 355 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: be uniquely positioned to help female victims of crime. Studies 356 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: show that domestic violence victims, for example, are more likely 357 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: to report to female cops, who tend to show more 358 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: patients and concern than their male counterparts. But if you're 359 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: a female victim in the US, it's statistically likely that 360 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: a male police officer will respond to your call for help. 361 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: He likely will have been trained by a man, his 362 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: boss is probably a man, and he will have spent 363 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: his entire career working in an environment where women's voices 364 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: are rarely heard. I keep thinking about Murray, the female 365 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: cop who was sexually assaulted at the FOP lodge. She's 366 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: not out in the world working as a police officer 367 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: right now. Like Sandy, she didn't get to fulfill her potential. 368 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: How many other women have similar stories. Here's Kim and 369 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: Stephen talking about Sandy's dream. I think she would have 370 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: been a trailblazer. She had a strong sense of justice. 371 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: She was um, someone that knew the streets well and 372 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: understood urban life, and she would have just been really great. 373 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: She had a heart for people, heart for women, heart 374 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: humankind in general. And so we lost somebody that probably 375 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: could have been a really good police officer looking back now, 376 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: and she probably would have made a good cop, you know, 377 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean, she could have handled being a cop. You 378 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying that, You know, if that kind 379 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: of gives you an insight, she had a bet at 380 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: an advocate, she would have been a really strong personality. 381 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: I would love to have been able to spend more time. 382 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: I have to. I have to really think about that, 383 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: because I feeling tears as I think about it. Because 384 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: we do, we lose out our dreams and our desires 385 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: got thwarted. They got it, got dashed, taken away from us. 386 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: The way Sandy was treated by PG County cops, who, 387 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: according to Detective Shachelski, expressed no remorse after her death, 388 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: it was like she was less than in their eyes, disposable. 389 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: It made me wonder how their attitudes towards women might 390 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: have carried over into their work, influencing the way they 391 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: interacted with female victims. It's worth noting that domestic violence 392 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: calls are the largest categories of calls the police officers 393 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: respond to. Here's Jill. I think that does call into 394 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: question how they behave in other aspects of their work, right, 395 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: how they investigate crimes against women, how they treat acts 396 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: of sexual violence. I just don't see a universe in 397 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: which you can have those really misogynists, really toxic group norms, 398 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: and still, for example, investigate a rape case in a 399 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: completely full and fair way, or investigate a suicide of 400 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: a young woman in a completely full and fair way, 401 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: A woman who may have been landered as a quote 402 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: badge bunny, one who may have been at the center 403 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: of a stink. I took you down this road, this 404 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 1: tangent on police sexual misconduct to help explain why I 405 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: think these relationships Sandy had with local police, and I 406 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: hesitated to call them relationships, were unethical and wrong. PG 407 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: County knew about these relationships while they investigated her death, 408 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: and they didn't say anything to her family. There was 409 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: no acknowledgement of wrongdoing. But learning all of this, it 410 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: doesn't exactly illuminate what happened in the Pollard that night 411 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: and whether it was Sandy who used the gun that 412 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: ended her life. So in our next episode, I want 413 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: to return to the physical evidence, reviewing it with top 414 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: experts in the field. And right when I was assembling 415 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: this episode, I got an email from PG County. After 416 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: months of asking, they finally sent me Sandy Bill's file. 417 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: To my surprise, it was pages long, and it revealed 418 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: something new that upended my assumptions about how and when 419 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: Sandy became so close to PG County police. Because As 420 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: it turns out, she had reached out to them for help. 421 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: Sandy had a stalker. That's on our next episode. How 422 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: many times in your career if you remember, have you 423 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: seen a teenage girl shoot herself? Canceled? Ever in the 424 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: at No. If you're a victim of police sexual violence, 425 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: I'd love to speak with you. Please send me an 426 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: email at what Happened to Sandy Beale at gmail dot com. 427 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: What Happened to Sandy Beale is hosted by me Melissa Jolson. 428 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: It written and produced by me and Katrina Norvell. The 429 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: podcast is edited by Abusa far Sound, designed by Aaron Kauffman. 430 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: Jason English is our executive producer. Research and production assistants 431 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: by Marissa Brown. To find out more about my investigation, 432 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at quasimato. That's qu a s 433 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: I am a d O. Thanks so much for listening.