Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On.
Speaker 1: I don't ever talk about my travel because, as some
Speaker 1: of you know, it's a security, it's politary. Space is
Speaker 1: not a good idea right now. You cannot say tell
Speaker 1: a member of Congress what they can or cannot here,
Speaker 1: and wouldn't underestimate President She's determination Bloomberg Sound On Politics,
Speaker 1: Policy and perspective from DC's top name. This is an
Speaker 1: issue area that Senator Cinema has been vocal on. She
Speaker 1: has an awful lot in this piece of legislation where
Speaker 1: it's been designed. It is the Joe Manchin Act. The
Speaker 1: Democrats needed some kind of a win. Bloomberg Sound On
Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. It appears Nancy Pelosi
Speaker 1: is heading for Taiwan after all. Welcome to the fastest
Speaker 1: hour in politics. As the speaker's travel leads the conversation
Speaker 1: here inside the bubble. Keeping the focus on China today
Speaker 1: and it's strained relationship with the US. We'll talk potential,
Speaker 1: risk and opportunity coming up with former Secretary Area of
Speaker 1: Defense Mark Espert, and we'll hear from retired Admiral John
Speaker 1: Kirby later this hour spokesman for the White House National
Speaker 1: Security Council, he brief reporters on a possible trip today.
Speaker 1: Analysis from our panel. Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie Schanzano was
Speaker 1: with us along with Lester Months in principle at b
Speaker 1: g R Group, former staff director the Senate Foreign Relations Committee,
Speaker 1: Lot to address this hour and first the headlines from
Speaker 1: overseas pop this morning. She's going the Speaker of the
Speaker 1: House to visit Taiwan during her trip to Asia, sources
Speaker 1: here saying as much to Bloomberg News. Although the White
Speaker 1: House would not confirm that trip would be happening, we
Speaker 1: did get a briefing today from retired Admiral John Kirby.
Speaker 1: He was in the briefing room with reporters, of course,
Speaker 1: speaking for the White House National Security Council, and some
Speaker 1: very direct thoughts about this trip. Here. He is there
Speaker 1: is no reason for Beijing to turn a potential visit
Speaker 1: consistent with longstanding U S policy into some sort of
Speaker 1: crisis conflict, or use it as a pretext to increase
Speaker 1: aggressive military activity in or around the Taiwan straight and
Speaker 1: yet over the weekend, even before Speaker Pelosi arrived in
Speaker 1: the region, China conducted a live fire exercise, and he
Speaker 1: warned that more could be coming as the days go ahead.
Speaker 1: We're gonna hear more from John Kirby, who will be
Speaker 1: talking with us later on this hour. Right now, we
Speaker 1: want to pick the brain of someone who has been
Speaker 1: there to Taiwan, and quite recently, the former Secretary of
Speaker 1: Defense Mark Esper, of course from the Trump administration with
Speaker 1: us now on sound on. Secretary, welcome back to Bloomberg. Thanks, So,
Speaker 1: it's great to be with you. You've done this trip?
Speaker 1: Is this a smart move for Nancy Pelosi to be going? Now? Well,
Speaker 1: you're right, I did. I did it about ten days ago.
Speaker 1: I spent three or four of those days with the
Speaker 1: leadership in Taiwan and with Taiwan these business leaders, and
Speaker 1: with American business people in Taiwan. So it was a
Speaker 1: great trip. But I at the time when this was
Speaker 1: first started talking being talked about that we should not
Speaker 1: allow the Chinese Communist Party to dictate the travels of
Speaker 1: American officials. So at this point they made it such
Speaker 1: an issue that she has to go, and she should go,
Speaker 1: and every evidence indicates that she she will be stopping
Speaker 1: there in the next currently, so What message then would
Speaker 1: it have sent if she did not go well, it
Speaker 1: would it would have showed lack of resolve on behalf
Speaker 1: of the United States and on the Biden administration in particular.
Speaker 1: I know the Chinese don't make a distinction between the
Speaker 1: Congress and executive branch, but but it would not have
Speaker 1: looked good at a time when the leader of China
Speaker 1: is making a move to get an unprecedented third term
Speaker 1: as General Secretary of China. What did you hear when
Speaker 1: you were in Taiwan? Was this all the talk? Were
Speaker 1: they hoping that she would come? It was not all
Speaker 1: the talk, of course it was. It was just starting
Speaker 1: to break when I was there. More importantly, their focus
Speaker 1: was on the war in Ukraine and lessons learned, and
Speaker 1: it was and what that might mean as China moves
Speaker 1: gets closer closer to its party congress in November, that's
Speaker 1: when again j and Ping will get his third term,
Speaker 1: and then the party leadership reshuffling that will happen in
Speaker 1: the months following. It's it's beyond that point where they
Speaker 1: where they getting uneasy about what China may or may
Speaker 1: not do with regard to Taiwan status. General Millie has said,
Speaker 1: the Pentagon is ready to get the speaker there safely.
Speaker 1: If that's what's decided. It's not about politics for the
Speaker 1: Defense Department. I just wonder the secretary, how difficult is
Speaker 1: it for the Pentagon to provide security on a mission
Speaker 1: like this. What's involved? Well, I think you see some
Speaker 1: indications through the media that they're moving a carrier strike
Speaker 1: group in the in the outside in the South China
Speaker 1: see at least to be responsive. Is that why. That's
Speaker 1: probably why the report is it was transitting up that
Speaker 1: way as well. But if I were him, I would
Speaker 1: be directing that we have assets nearby to to support
Speaker 1: the trip in case something happens. You know, you've got
Speaker 1: to be careful these things. People make miscalculations, young pilots
Speaker 1: in the air or captains of ships who who do
Speaker 1: the wrong thing, and one thing can escalate into another.
Speaker 1: So you want to be prepared for the warst I
Speaker 1: don't think any military confrontation is going to come out
Speaker 1: of this. I think trying to make, you know, fly
Speaker 1: more aircraft towards Taiwan or maybe you know, some some
Speaker 1: missile shots into open waters and stuff like that. But
Speaker 1: you've got to be careful you don't want to get blindsided.
Speaker 1: There was You probably heard this. Chinese propaganda's broadcaster made
Speaker 1: some headlines last week that even Speaker Pelosi repeated uh
Speaker 1: in one of her briefings on Capitol Hill, suggesting that
Speaker 1: she could be shot down if seen being escorted by
Speaker 1: US military jets. You don't believe that, do you? No,
Speaker 1: not at all. Look, that would be an act of war.
Speaker 1: And I believe that the leadership in Beijing is is
Speaker 1: far more responsible than that, and and our leadership is
Speaker 1: equally responsible. So nobody wants a war. But this is
Speaker 1: posturing again because is just a few short months away
Speaker 1: trying to get his unprecedented right not since Smiles a
Speaker 1: dawn't third term in office, and so this is important
Speaker 1: to him. He can't show weakness at this point in time.
Speaker 1: So they will, they will respond, but they're they're not
Speaker 1: going to start a war over nor should a war
Speaker 1: be started over this. So Secretary asked for what's the response? Then?
Speaker 1: What what do you expect from Beijing when they see
Speaker 1: the image of Speaker Felosi on the tarmac and Taipei. Well,
Speaker 1: like I said, you could see that, you know, missile
Speaker 1: missile Brage's shots into open waters outside of Tatwan somewhere.
Speaker 1: You could see some type of cyber attack where they
Speaker 1: try and shut down the infrastructure, the electrical grid or
Speaker 1: something in in Taiwan for twenty four hours. Uh, maybe
Speaker 1: more intrusions into Taiwan's air defense identification zone. You know
Speaker 1: who knows. But they're going to calibrate very carefully to
Speaker 1: send a message. It's gonna have to be more than
Speaker 1: what they've done in the past, but not so much
Speaker 1: as to provoke a tip for tat response between both countries.
Speaker 1: CIA director William Burns gave an interview at the Aspen
Speaker 1: Strategy Group Security for him. You may have even been there,
Speaker 1: but he said he believes that President She is watching
Speaker 1: you mentioned Ukraine, that she is watching Russia's operation. It's
Speaker 1: war in Ukraine right now very closely. Here's what he said.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't underestimate, um, you know, President She's determination to
Speaker 1: assert China's control, the People's Republic of China's control over Taiwan.
Speaker 1: Is he suggesting a military answer by China after seeing
Speaker 1: what's happened in Ukraine? Is this actually in the works. Well,
Speaker 1: the Chinese have always threatened the military response that comes
Speaker 1: down to that, should Taiwan do something like declare independence. Look,
Speaker 1: he's not the only one learning lessons. I the President
Speaker 1: of Taiwan. She when she and I met for over
Speaker 1: an hour, we talked about the lessons learned from Ukraine
Speaker 1: as well, and and the gutsy determined leadership and and
Speaker 1: fighting from the Ukrainians and what it means for the Taiwanese.
Speaker 1: So I think everybody is watching what's happening. Look, I
Speaker 1: think if if smart, a critical lesson learned should be uh,
Speaker 1: can he trust what his military is telling him about
Speaker 1: their own capabilities and about what they can cannot do.
Speaker 1: Clearly that didn't happen with Vladimir Putin and the Russian military.
Speaker 1: We saw very incompetent military unable to achieve its objectives.
Speaker 1: And if I were Jisian being, I would be really questioning,
Speaker 1: is my military up to any task? Or they just
Speaker 1: tell me what I want to hear. So that's the
Speaker 1: lesson then that China knows it wouldn't have to have
Speaker 1: overwhelming force to make this viable. Look, it's it's on
Speaker 1: amphibious assault. If if they go for the major end
Speaker 1: of the operation, it's a very very difficult operation. You know,
Speaker 1: d Day was the only hand to cross this. UH
Speaker 1: go from the UK to France. And that's what this
Speaker 1: is a tough operation and UH and but book there's
Speaker 1: other things he could do. He could try a blockade
Speaker 1: of Taiwan if we ever get to that point. Nobody
Speaker 1: thinks that thinks that's gonna happen anytime. So it's at
Speaker 1: least a few years away by by most accounts. If
Speaker 1: China does strike Taiwan now or in a few years,
Speaker 1: is that the equivalent of an Article five violation for
Speaker 1: NATO allies? But in Asia, well, we don't have a
Speaker 1: treaty with UH with Taiwan like we do with understood
Speaker 1: with Japan. It's feeling like that though, isn't it. It
Speaker 1: would clearly be, you know, an act of war against Taiwan.
Speaker 1: The question remains, would the United States come to their assistance? Now?
Speaker 1: President Biden has said three times, on three separate occasions,
Speaker 1: that we would, which was an explicit acknowledgement of that,
Speaker 1: and then the White House surprisingly went and walked it
Speaker 1: back three times. So I've argued that the One China
Speaker 1: policy has outlooked a usefulness and that we need to
Speaker 1: have greater strategic clarity, not strategic ambiguity. In my view,
Speaker 1: strength and resolved and an international global commitment by the
Speaker 1: democracy of the world against the autocracies of the world
Speaker 1: is critical in this day and age and going forward. Well,
Speaker 1: you talked about this just a few days ago before
Speaker 1: the Atlantic Council UH and issued a five point plan.
Speaker 1: Rolled out your five point plan for Taiwan to deter China.
Speaker 1: One of those points is defense and diplomacy. What does
Speaker 1: Taiwan need from US they don't have now, Well, they
Speaker 1: need to know that if they are invaded that we
Speaker 1: will assist them with military means. Of course, direct action
Speaker 1: logistics would be critical in this type of scenario. In fact,
Speaker 1: we talked in Taipei about their immediate need for Stinger
Speaker 1: anti aircraft missiles, for Javelin anti tank missiles, for the
Speaker 1: high mars, things like that that they're trying to purchase,
Speaker 1: but they want to know that we will be there.
Speaker 1: My view is it's it can't just be the United States.
Speaker 1: We should get the other democracies of the region, which
Speaker 1: would be Japan and Korea and Australia also are NATO
Speaker 1: allies from Europe to assist as well. I think those
Speaker 1: that type of resolutism and resolved and unity by the
Speaker 1: West show China that it's just not worth it to
Speaker 1: invade this tiny island nation. It's no bigger than the
Speaker 1: state of Maryland. It's just not worth going after them.
Speaker 1: You just rolled out the same shopping list though that
Speaker 1: basically we've been taken care of Ukraine with the same
Speaker 1: uh Javelin missiles, Stinger missiles and so forth. Is there
Speaker 1: going to be a conversation two years from now saying
Speaker 1: we should have been arming Taiwan. I hope not. One
Speaker 1: of the things that said in Taiwan is the dramatically
Speaker 1: increase their defense budgets so that they can afford these capabilities,
Speaker 1: and they have to atop a warfare defensive plan, which
Speaker 1: has not been what they've done the past. Through their
Speaker 1: own blood and courage, the Ukrainians have helped show Taiwan
Speaker 1: the way, and it's critical now that they quickly quickly
Speaker 1: move forward in terms of building up their defenses again,
Speaker 1: not to not to try and defeat China, but to
Speaker 1: deter military action in the first place. And I think
Speaker 1: that's critical because look, nobody wants a war in Asia
Speaker 1: between the United States and China. It would upset, you know,
Speaker 1: the global order, the think about the global economy. How
Speaker 1: would ripple across the world to Taiwan and heartbeat? Absolutely, yes,
Speaker 1: I think we need to show them support, not just
Speaker 1: to show support for a pretty loving people and a
Speaker 1: robust democracy on Taiwan, but for her. Then go back
Speaker 1: to Washington d C. Share with her colleagues what she
Speaker 1: saw and figure out how do we continue to improve
Speaker 1: us and allowed support for them. Insights from Mark Esper,
Speaker 1: the former Secretary of Defense. It's great to have you back, Secretary.
Speaker 1: We thank you today for being on Bloomberg. Thanks Joe.
Speaker 1: Great with you coming up on the fastest hour in politics.
Speaker 1: President Biden to address the nation tonight. Will tell you why.
Speaker 1: As we assemble our panel, we'll check traffic and markets
Speaker 1: for you on the way. On sound on, I'm Joe Matthew.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on
Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio with breaking news from Washington.
Speaker 1: We're going to see and hear from President Biden tonight.
Speaker 1: A late add to the schedule. He will address the
Speaker 1: nation or you know so they say at seven thirty PM.
Speaker 1: I suspect he'll be on time for an evening speech
Speaker 1: like this. It's not very often. It's not prime time,
Speaker 1: but not very often we hear from the President that late.
Speaker 1: And it is, as you've seen on the terminal, possibly
Speaker 1: by now, on a counter terrorism operation. This is not
Speaker 1: something that we saw coming today. His official schedule says
Speaker 1: the President will deliver remarks from the Blue Room balcony
Speaker 1: on a successful counter terror operation. There's been more reporting
Speaker 1: from Bloomberg News, as you would expect, that this in
Speaker 1: fact was a significant al Qaeda target in Afghanistan. The
Speaker 1: Taliban says that a US drone bombed a house on
Speaker 1: Saturday in Cobble, So it appears this was over the
Speaker 1: weekend and something that we'll be talking a lot more
Speaker 1: about as we learn more. But I just want to
Speaker 1: bring in the panel on this. Well, it's fresh and
Speaker 1: in the air. Bloomberg Politics contributor Democratic analyst Genie Schanzano
Speaker 1: is here today along with Lester Months in principle at
Speaker 1: government relations firm b g R Group, formerly staff director
Speaker 1: of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Your take on this, uh,
Speaker 1: this this breaking news, Genie, is as we recall the
Speaker 1: withdrawal from Afghanistan, and so much talk about over the
Speaker 1: horizon targeting and over the horizon missions like us, we
Speaker 1: uh apparently have our first case. Yeah, and this looks
Speaker 1: like what we're gonna hear tonight. It's really stunning development.
Speaker 1: The President obviously has COVID, as you mentioned. They say
Speaker 1: he's going to speak outdoors because it will be in
Speaker 1: the Blue Room balcony. But you know, you think about
Speaker 1: the fact that president will speak live at seven thirty
Speaker 1: pm Eastern time, that means this had to be a
Speaker 1: significant and successful attack. Um. And they mentioned the no
Speaker 1: civilian casualties. There's talk that it may have been c
Speaker 1: i A strikes And you know, it's stunning that if
Speaker 1: this was over the weekend, we're just hearing about it now.
Speaker 1: But then not so stunning because of course, since the
Speaker 1: fall of Afghanistan or the fall of Kabble, we have
Speaker 1: not had a lot of good media sources and information
Speaker 1: coming out of there, So this is quite a development
Speaker 1: in the last few minutes. What's your reaction to this, Lester,
Speaker 1: when when you consider the idea that we had a
Speaker 1: feeling there'll be a lot of these following our withdrawal
Speaker 1: from Afghanistan that was going to be the new st rategy.
Speaker 1: This is the first a drone strike, the first publicly
Speaker 1: known CIA strikes that we know about. Well, great question, Joe.
Speaker 1: I think probably best to reserve judgment and until we
Speaker 1: know more. I think it's I think it's an interesting
Speaker 1: decision by the administration to go so public on this.
Speaker 1: You know, basically a year after the government fell in
Speaker 1: Afghanistan and the Taliban took over, that was the beginning
Speaker 1: of President Biden's slide in the polls. Uh, this how
Speaker 1: significant is this event? We will find out what was
Speaker 1: the role, if any, of the Taliban, what are what
Speaker 1: is the state of our conversations with them in terms
Speaker 1: of counter terrorism. This will all be very interesting to learn. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I really do hope the President has a lot
Speaker 1: of good news to share. But having said that, it's
Speaker 1: a very interesting decision. The timing, of course, coming rate
Speaker 1: about the time we think Speaker Pelosi is like to
Speaker 1: be in Taiwan, so there's a lot of stuff going
Speaker 1: on right now here at the beginning of August. Well,
Speaker 1: what's your take on Pelosi's trip? Then, Genie, this is
Speaker 1: what I thought we'd be talking about at this moment
Speaker 1: she she could be on the ground within hours. I
Speaker 1: guess we should not be surprised. This is what Nancy
Speaker 1: Pelosi does. Yeah, I mean, she's been a long time
Speaker 1: China hawk. Um. You know, we can't forget that. Just
Speaker 1: last late last week, as this trip was being publicly discussed,
Speaker 1: the Congress passed the China Competition the Chips Act, and
Speaker 1: so that was a big moment for her. This is
Speaker 1: somebody who for decades has been committed to defending Taiwan. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, some people are describing this as a culmination
Speaker 1: of her career as she faces potentially being ousted as
Speaker 1: Speaker of the House, and who knows if she will
Speaker 1: leave the house shortly after that. So from that perspective,
Speaker 1: it is not stunning, but it is going to be
Speaker 1: an incredibly fraught twenty four to forty eight hours if
Speaker 1: we listen to the rhetoric coming out of Beijing, and
Speaker 1: of course now we're hearing it may be an overnight stay,
Speaker 1: which quite astounded me because you know, a couple hours
Speaker 1: on the ground is one thing, overnight stay is something else.
Speaker 1: And and you know, people are saying China is going
Speaker 1: to have to respond, and the question is how well,
Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting. Uh, once we actually have
Speaker 1: the imagery, it's going to feel differently less. But when
Speaker 1: you heard the news, did you think it was a
Speaker 1: smart move? I think she had no choice. Um, she
Speaker 1: couldn't back down. And you know, let me just say, Joe,
Speaker 1: kudos to Speaker Pelosi. She she's got guts, she's got courage,
Speaker 1: she's standing up for the right thing. She's been very
Speaker 1: good on this issue throughout her career. And I just
Speaker 1: I will just throw out there. A few months ago,
Speaker 1: right as Russia was invading Ukraine, it was Speaker Pelosi
Speaker 1: who stood up to the administration, to the Biden administration
Speaker 1: and said we're going to prohibit Russian oil imports into
Speaker 1: the United States Like she and and a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of other measures. She is the backbone and a lot
Speaker 1: of ways of this administration and the White House. In
Speaker 1: a way, I ought to be thanking her. If Joe
Speaker 1: Biden hadn't said publicly that the military didn't think it
Speaker 1: was a good time for her to go, would she
Speaker 1: have been backed into a corner? I think if this
Speaker 1: hadn't become public. Of course, isn't that what made this
Speaker 1: an issue? If he hadn't said that, she could have
Speaker 1: rescheduled this. I think once it became public, she had
Speaker 1: to go uh. And and so the question might be,
Speaker 1: you know who, who leaked this? Why did they leak at? UH?
Speaker 1: Congressional delegations like this or codels are always very closely
Speaker 1: held information, particularly to a sensitive destination like this. Genie,
Speaker 1: should the President not have said that, would we be
Speaker 1: having this conversation right now? It should not have been
Speaker 1: discussed publicly. I think that was a big problem, and
Speaker 1: it put us in a very difficult situation in China.
Speaker 1: People reporting they may move against Taiwan within the next
Speaker 1: year or so. That's a big, big trouble for the US.
Speaker 1: Genie and Lester will stay with us as we learn
Speaker 1: more about the President's speech to the nation to night
Speaker 1: a successful counter terrorism attack, We'll have more ahead on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg as we consider what might come next from Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 1: Is a parent trip to Taiwan not something that the
Speaker 1: White House would confirm today. Strangely, I guess to a
Speaker 1: point because while the administration has to provide the travel
Speaker 1: and security, We've talked about this if you listen to
Speaker 1: sound on you know this, but John Kirby brief reporters
Speaker 1: today at the White House. Headlines have been flying for
Speaker 1: hours at that point they had to get out there
Speaker 1: to answer some questions, of course, and he was very
Speaker 1: adamant about the fact the White House supports this trip.
Speaker 1: As you heard earlier this hour, there's precedent for this trip,
Speaker 1: and uh, nothing changes in terms of US China policy.
Speaker 1: Nobody has said anything that should create any drama, has
Speaker 1: been his point. But there was a live fire exercise
Speaker 1: last night, and Kirby did warn that there could be
Speaker 1: more where that came from here. He is China appears
Speaker 1: to be positioning itself to potentially take further steps in
Speaker 1: the coming days and perhaps over longer time. Her rises.
Speaker 1: These potential steps from China could include military provocations such
Speaker 1: as firing missiles in the Taiwan Straight or around Taiwan,
Speaker 1: operations that break historical norms such as large scale air
Speaker 1: entry into Taiwan's air defense identification zone. None of that would,
Speaker 1: of course be very good. I had a chance to
Speaker 1: talk with him today, John Kirby with US Live on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg TV and Radio, and I started by asking him
Speaker 1: what we were talking about earlier with the panel. If
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is already going and this is being conducted
Speaker 1: very quietly. Why then would Joe Biden say publicly that
Speaker 1: the military thought this was a bad time. Here's where
Speaker 1: we start with, Johnny. I think the President was answering
Speaker 1: her question you got from a reporter that surrounded her
Speaker 1: the context of the kinds of information we give to
Speaker 1: Speaker Pelosi before she travels. We met with her staff
Speaker 1: and with her at various levels before she made this
Speaker 1: trip to make sure that she could make the best
Speaker 1: decisions on her own. That she had all the information
Speaker 1: and context she needed, and the President was referencing that.
Speaker 1: But it is up to this speaker. She gets to
Speaker 1: decide what her travel it generator looks like. The President
Speaker 1: respects that, and I realized that that you are not
Speaker 1: confirming this trip, but if she does in fact show up.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the fact that there were live fire exercises
Speaker 1: conducted by China last night, and you said that the
Speaker 1: country is positioning itself to potentially take further steps in
Speaker 1: the coming days. I spoke earlier, Admiral Today with Defense
Speaker 1: Secretary Mark Esper, who suggested that the U. S. S.
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan was sent to the region in case Speaker
Speaker 1: Pelosi did visit Taiwan. Is that accurate? No, that Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan UH is already forward deployed to the region. Her
Speaker 1: her UH activities in the South China see we're long planned. Um.
Speaker 1: We keep a vigilant posture in the Indo Pacific because
Speaker 1: we need to. But it was not related to any
Speaker 1: potential visit by Speaker Pelosi. Admiral Kirby, you have preferred
Speaker 1: a few times, as you did in the briefing today,
Speaker 1: about consultations that the administration had with Speaker Pelosi's office
Speaker 1: on the possibility that this may happen. Did you discuss
Speaker 1: any sort of overt actions or news conferences, or any
Speaker 1: activities that that she might be reluctant to conduct while
Speaker 1: there so as to not inflame tensions. Does the White
Speaker 1: House have any input on her activities while she is there.
Speaker 1: Our our job is to make sure she has all
Speaker 1: the information she needs and to make sure from a
Speaker 1: security perspective, that she can make a trip wherever it
Speaker 1: is safely and securely. The Speaker decides what she's gonna do,
Speaker 1: where she's gonna go, what she's gonna say when she's
Speaker 1: on the ground. UM, we simply provided her information in
Speaker 1: context so that she can make decisions about her travel.
Speaker 1: General Millie has suggested that the Pentagon is prepared if
Speaker 1: she decides to go, to provide whatever security is necessary.
Speaker 1: Can you just clarify for our listeners. But while I
Speaker 1: understand the White House is not behind this trip or
Speaker 1: making decisions on it, it is in fact the administration
Speaker 1: that would provide her transportation and secure She routinely travels
Speaker 1: aboard US military transportation aircraft. She is on this trip,
Speaker 1: so of course we help herget where she's going. Um
Speaker 1: and depending on where she's going, we might also be
Speaker 1: called in to help make sure that she can do
Speaker 1: so safely and securely. I'm not going to talk about
Speaker 1: that what those protocols might be for a trip like this.
Speaker 1: I can just tell you that we are committed to
Speaker 1: making sure hey, she has all the information she needs
Speaker 1: and that and that when she travels, she can do
Speaker 1: so in a safe and secure way. Admiral, among the
Speaker 1: possible actions that that you predicted or or warned of,
Speaker 1: I should say in the briefing was a large scale
Speaker 1: incursion into Taiwan's airspace. If China did do something like that,
Speaker 1: would there be a US military response. What I said
Speaker 1: was a potential large scale UH incursion into their air
Speaker 1: defense identification zone. That's different than their national uh not national,
Speaker 1: that's different than airspace. It's a air air defense identification zone.
Speaker 1: And again I don't want to speculate about US military act,
Speaker 1: but he's one way or another um that we we
Speaker 1: were going to watch this very very closely. There's no
Speaker 1: reason for it erupt into conflict, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to speculate beyond that. Speaking with us from the White
Speaker 1: House a couple of hours ago here you heard it
Speaker 1: live on Bloomberg Radio as it happened. Wanted to spend
Speaker 1: that back just so you could get a sense of
Speaker 1: the conversation here in the language that Kirby and the
Speaker 1: administration are using around this. As we reassembled our panel
Speaker 1: with more to discuss now that we actually had a
Speaker 1: chance to hear from Admiral Kirby. We want to bring
Speaker 1: back Lester Munson from b g R Group and Genie Chanzano,
Speaker 1: of course, Bloomberg Politics contributor. It's interesting, Genie, it's like
Speaker 1: the administration is talking about this as if it might
Speaker 1: learn that the speaker is going on the news with
Speaker 1: everyone else. But in fact they have to be involved
Speaker 1: in the planning. But why not just on this and say,
Speaker 1: you know what, We're gonna go to Taiwan anytime we want. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, clearly the President wasn't uh, you know, excited
Speaker 1: about this trip. He wasn't supportive of the but you know,
Speaker 1: they sort of, I think publicly backed themselves into a corner.
Speaker 1: And I think the real question here, and it's so
Speaker 1: fascinating to hear from Kirby first hand, is what does
Speaker 1: this do about our sort of dual postures as it
Speaker 1: pertains to Taiwan. On the one hand, we keep saying
Speaker 1: we adhere to this one China policy. We hear Kirby
Speaker 1: saying that. On the other hand, we'd hear that the
Speaker 1: Taiwan's Relations Act, we're going to help them better defend themselves.
Speaker 1: I've had people raised the issue what kind of defense
Speaker 1: is that? Is that a proxy defense or is that
Speaker 1: in actually going into defend as Again, we're hearing notes
Speaker 1: that China is you know, potentially at least White House
Speaker 1: officials concerned thinking about following Russia and going into Taiwan
Speaker 1: within the next year or so. Lester, what's this arrival
Speaker 1: gonna look like I mean, I'm not I'm assuming we're
Speaker 1: not going to do red carpets and orchestras and parades
Speaker 1: and so forth. Is this going to look uh different
Speaker 1: than it would have otherwise if it were not for
Speaker 1: this conversation. Uh, you know, I don't think it's going
Speaker 1: to be that different. I strongly suspect we're not going
Speaker 1: to see it in real time, that the speaker will
Speaker 1: in fact get a very warm reception from the Taiwan
Speaker 1: and East. They're obviously very appreciative of the fact that
Speaker 1: she is visiting. They have a very strong relationship in general.
Speaker 1: And I think we're gonna we're gonna see this after
Speaker 1: the fact, after she has left the island. Lester Months
Speaker 1: and Jeanie Schanzano come back with us as we reassemble
Speaker 1: the panel next with a lot more to talk about.
Speaker 1: We haven't even touched reconciliation and the challenge that lies
Speaker 1: before Democrats this week in the U S. Senate kirston
Speaker 1: Cinema is still not on board. I'm Joe Matthew. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound On with Joe
Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The targets has been named. President
Speaker 1: Biden will tell the nation tonights and an address at
Speaker 1: seven thirty p m. Washington Time, that a successful US
Speaker 1: counter terrorism operation was carried out over the weekend in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1: The Associated Press that says that target was i'm An
Speaker 1: al Zawari, the terrorist known for being the leader of
Speaker 1: al Qaeda for what the last decade since two thousand eleven.
Speaker 1: Let's reassemble the panel for more as we anticipate what
Speaker 1: the President might tell us. Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie Schanzano
Speaker 1: is with us today along with Lester months and of
Speaker 1: b g R Group. What does the President need to say? Genie?
Speaker 1: This isn't top of mind for a lot of Americans.
Speaker 1: There have been so many topics flying out of Washington.
Speaker 1: It's been difficult for people to kind of balance them all.
Speaker 1: Although I suspect that's why this is an evening address
Speaker 1: and something that needs to be written deliberately. Getting back
Speaker 1: to my question, what does that speech need to include?
Speaker 1: You know, I think he needs to tell us the facts,
Speaker 1: what happened, how it happened, to confirm that there were
Speaker 1: no civilian casualties, but I think what we're also going
Speaker 1: to hear is a little bit about what we've heard
Speaker 1: before the Senate Armed Services Committee in the last few months,
Speaker 1: which is from people from the d A, the d
Speaker 1: i A, and elsewhere who have said that ISIS and
Speaker 1: al Qaeda are between six months and a year or
Speaker 1: longer before they can have the ability or away from
Speaker 1: having the ability to attack Western targets, including the United States.
Speaker 1: In other words, they remain a real threat. And we've
Speaker 1: heard that repeatedly in some of these committees. That news
Speaker 1: doesn't often get out to the public given everything going on.
Speaker 1: So I think the President is going to talk about that,
Speaker 1: and this is a significant development. If this is what
Speaker 1: the president talks about, As you mentioned, this will be
Speaker 1: just the second transition in al Qaeda leadership in thirty years.
Speaker 1: And he has led this group since Osama bin Laden
Speaker 1: was killed. Yeah, well so again even more than a decade.
Speaker 1: Uh I'll Zawari is not a household name in this
Speaker 1: country though Leicester. But this is a big deal. How
Speaker 1: does the president elevate the moment to match the target? Well,
Speaker 1: this is a potentially big moment for President Biden, right,
Speaker 1: if true, is the successor to Ben Laden as the
Speaker 1: leader of al Qaeda. Notably, Joe Biden when he was
Speaker 1: Vice president, opposed the operation that actually killed Bin Laden
Speaker 1: in Pakistan's many years ago. So let's hear about his
Speaker 1: decision making process, about how this happened, the role of
Speaker 1: the Taliban, if any how this was carried out. Has
Speaker 1: he become a different decision maker than he was back
Speaker 1: in That will be very interesting to find out. We're
Speaker 1: going to get the photograph from the situation room and
Speaker 1: the rest that comes with this, or although I guess,
Speaker 1: you know, now that I think about a genie, the
Speaker 1: President's had COVID, he was probably on a zoom screen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he could have been, And that's going to be you know,
Speaker 1: interesting to see, you know, for the president. This is
Speaker 1: also critically important because one of the big missteps, if
Speaker 1: is saying it's sort of mildly of his tenures so
Speaker 1: far has been the withdrawal from Afghanistan. And what he
Speaker 1: promised at that point was even though we don't have
Speaker 1: troops on the ground, we would be able to this
Speaker 1: over horizon strike capability to take out threats. And he
Speaker 1: is going to be able to make good on that
Speaker 1: if indeed that's what we're gonna here tonight. So this
Speaker 1: is going to a big moment for him to address
Speaker 1: his critics in terms of the the not necessarily nature
Speaker 1: of the withdrawal, but the ability to you know, live
Speaker 1: up to the promises he made. Well, that's true. And
Speaker 1: with regard to Over the Horizon, Lester, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of argument about that. You were here for some
Speaker 1: of it on sound on about whether this was a
Speaker 1: responsible strategy or or it would be the US lobbin
Speaker 1: more cruise missiles in the countries that create more terrorists. This,
Speaker 1: this particular case, looks like a win if you're if
Speaker 1: if you're getting the head of the organization, Over the
Speaker 1: Horizon sounds pretty good. It does sound pretty good if
Speaker 1: if this all bears out, and because early reports are accurate,
Speaker 1: it's it's terrifically good news in the United States. It's
Speaker 1: good news, uh for for the president. Um, but I
Speaker 1: do think we should put this, you know, and and
Speaker 1: kudos to him if if that's how all this came out.
Speaker 1: Let's see this in the broader picture of our efforts
Speaker 1: against terrorism globally, though, what what else is happening in Afghanistan?
Speaker 1: What are the other consequences of our withdrawal. This is
Speaker 1: one event. It may be a very significant one, but
Speaker 1: we do need to kind of put it in the
Speaker 1: constellation of all of the other information that we have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a that's for sure. If if this is going
Speaker 1: to be the moment though that that you've kind of described,
Speaker 1: it could be as this is, well, this is a
Speaker 1: big deal. As Joe Biden might say, how important is
Speaker 1: the writing of that speech versus the delivery? Does he
Speaker 1: need to have a line that we remember tomorrow? Is
Speaker 1: this one of those moments in the administration that will
Speaker 1: be part of the real you know? Um, Joe Biden
Speaker 1: is an interesting communicator. I think you have to say.
Speaker 1: There are times when he seems, you know, like he's
Speaker 1: he's a little too old, and he's maybe he's lost
Speaker 1: a step and he kind of messes steps on some lines.
Speaker 1: There's other times when he is very real and connects
Speaker 1: to Americans and has that kind of blue collar, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, make your own way kind of attitude about things.
Speaker 1: I think he needs to get in touch with that
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, that real guy from Scranton who's you know,
Speaker 1: who's able to go talk to the union guys at
Speaker 1: the plant about gun control when they don't want to
Speaker 1: hear about it. He's he's got to kind of get
Speaker 1: into the Joe Biden that won this election and not
Speaker 1: the guy who has been a little overmanaged by his staff. Well,
Speaker 1: my goodness, he is an isolation genie. I don't know
Speaker 1: if that if that affects anything here, but there are
Speaker 1: a couple of different ways to look at this. You
Speaker 1: know that that he's powering through that, he's the example
Speaker 1: of what all workers ought to be, uh to aspire
Speaker 1: to if they come down with COVID, you know, you're
Speaker 1: pushing through it. But this rebound case is something that
Speaker 1: got a lot of talk over the weekend. You know,
Speaker 1: he's stuck up there in the residents. Apparently he's going
Speaker 1: to be speaking to us from the Blue Room balcony.
Speaker 1: As we mentioned at the top of the program, how
Speaker 1: do you look like you're still connected? Well, he's been
Speaker 1: trying as they've sent out these videos and these pictures,
Speaker 1: and then there's been some discus was masking and unmasking,
Speaker 1: and you know, I think the point tonight for the president,
Speaker 1: there's nothing more important from any president, Democrat or Republican
Speaker 1: that they keep the nations secure from internal and external
Speaker 1: security threats. And so tonight, if he can show that
Speaker 1: he took down with the help of the obviously the
Speaker 1: the U. S Military, the CIA, this enormous threat in
Speaker 1: terms of the leader of al Qaeda, that is a
Speaker 1: big deal, as Joe Biden likes to say, and it
Speaker 1: is something that all Americans can you end, people around
Speaker 1: the world, as Lester mentioned, can unite behind. And again
Speaker 1: I think we have to be cautious because we're just
Speaker 1: hearing these reports. We don't know what he's going to say.
Speaker 1: But if that's the case, I think he will be
Speaker 1: able to show that kind of strength, even given his
Speaker 1: second bout with COVID, which he's been trying to you know,
Speaker 1: push through. So I done properly, Lester, This not only
Speaker 1: announces a successful counter terrorism operation, but it serves, as
Speaker 1: you know the photograph with the newspaper today, he gets
Speaker 1: up there and shows the world that he has not
Speaker 1: been compromised by COVID, even though this is a rebound
Speaker 1: and there are some concerns about his age. Well and Joe,
Speaker 1: it shows he's the most consequential policymaker in Washington. Because
Speaker 1: I gotta say until about an hour ago, I would
Speaker 1: have said that was Speaker Pelosi. She's the one determining
Speaker 1: the agenda on Taiwan, she was the one pushing for
Speaker 1: the tough line on Ukraine. Joe Biden, You've got a
Speaker 1: chance to kind of return to being the alpha. One
Speaker 1: thing he's not talking about tonight is reconciliation, Genie. Uh,
Speaker 1: Joe Manchin did the the full Ginsburg. Although I read
Speaker 1: it in the playbook, it's not really unless you do
Speaker 1: it in person. You actually have to drive from network
Speaker 1: studio to network studio. But what a messenger, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and Joe Biden is spinning a lot of plates at
Speaker 1: the moment. Kirsen Cinema, as I mentioned before, still has
Speaker 1: not committed to this deal, and it's been quite a
Speaker 1: number of days. I'm sure her voicemail is full. Genie,
Speaker 1: how does Joe Biden manage this? On top of that?
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, it was fascinating to seem man and
Speaker 1: the other Joe. Um, you're are Joe, but the other
Speaker 1: Joe in in Washington out on all the Sunday shows. Um. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that Joe Biden has tried purposely,
Speaker 1: to purposefully to stay behind the scenes. He's been you know,
Speaker 1: we were here, he's been working the phones. They really
Speaker 1: do need to get Kristen Cinema on board. And I
Speaker 1: think one big danger this is a very good time
Speaker 1: for Democrats this last few days, but one big danger
Speaker 1: is they can't, you know, issue a victory party or
Speaker 1: a victory signed prematurely and have this thing fall through
Speaker 1: and there's major bumps in the road. You still have
Speaker 1: the bird Bath and you've got Kristen Cinema, and then
Speaker 1: you've got to get this thing through the House. So
Speaker 1: if I was the president, I think he should stay
Speaker 1: behind the scenes and push as much as he can
Speaker 1: forward without sort of going out and claiming a victory
Speaker 1: on reconciliation until it's all done. It's on his desk.
Speaker 1: I don't get about this whole conversation here. Uh, just
Speaker 1: I'm reminded every time I see Joe Manchin on Sunday
Speaker 1: Morning Lester that this isn't done yet and all if
Speaker 1: things could still go wrong, Well there's this sort of
Speaker 1: victory lap that's happening. Uh, let's listen to him on ABC.
Speaker 1: This is Joe Manchon. When he was asked like, hey,
Speaker 1: what about kirston cinema. You guys did this without her,
Speaker 1: as she had saying this, here's Joe Manchin. I haven't
Speaker 1: had any conversations with anybody doing the process because I
Speaker 1: wasn't ever sure that we would get to the finale
Speaker 1: here to get a completed bill. There's nothing on taxes
Speaker 1: at all. There's not one one penny of change in taxes.
Speaker 1: I have no idea where they're coming at. That was
Speaker 1: the other refrains who no new taxes, just closing loophole's lester,
Speaker 1: does this have a better chance than build back better?
Speaker 1: When it comes to the senator from Arizona, you don't know, uh.
Speaker 1: And I do take a little bit of issue with
Speaker 1: laying us on Joe Manchon. This is Chuck Schummer's job.
Speaker 1: He's the majority leader to bring people together to this.
Speaker 1: That's right, he was and it's his job to know
Speaker 1: where the folks were most likely to be the stray
Speaker 1: cats are going, and he's got to keep them in
Speaker 1: the full that's his number one job. This is on
Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer. This is not on Joe Mansion. This is
Speaker 1: this is the majority of leaders obligation in that position
Speaker 1: to keep his caucus together. His first call should have
Speaker 1: been to Senator Cinema. You's got to say something in
Speaker 1: the next couple of days. Genie, how much time does
Speaker 1: she have. She'll have to speak rather quickly, and we
Speaker 1: know Kristen Cinema she doesn't like to speak a lot,
Speaker 1: but she's going to be forced out. Reporters are going
Speaker 1: to be crawling. Lester, great to have you, thank you
Speaker 1: for being with us, and of course Jeannie Chantano, politics contributor,
Speaker 1: on what's going to be an important night, Joe Biden
Speaker 1: addressing the nation seven thirty pm. As we've been discussing
Speaker 1: on sound on, we'll meet you back here tomorrow talk
Speaker 1: about it. This is Bloomberg