1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: I don't ever talk about my travel because, as some 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: of you know, it's a security, it's politary. Space is 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: not a good idea right now. You cannot say tell 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: a member of Congress what they can or cannot here, 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: and wouldn't underestimate President She's determination Bloomberg Sound On Politics, 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: Policy and perspective from DC's top name. This is an 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: issue area that Senator Cinema has been vocal on. She 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: has an awful lot in this piece of legislation where 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: it's been designed. It is the Joe Manchin Act. The 11 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: Democrats needed some kind of a win. Bloomberg Sound On 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. It appears Nancy Pelosi 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 1: is heading for Taiwan after all. Welcome to the fastest 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: hour in politics. As the speaker's travel leads the conversation 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: here inside the bubble. Keeping the focus on China today 16 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: and it's strained relationship with the US. We'll talk potential, 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: risk and opportunity coming up with former Secretary Area of 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: Defense Mark Espert, and we'll hear from retired Admiral John 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: Kirby later this hour spokesman for the White House National 20 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: Security Council, he brief reporters on a possible trip today. 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: Analysis from our panel. Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie Schanzano was 22 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: with us along with Lester Months in principle at b 23 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: g R Group, former staff director the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: Lot to address this hour and first the headlines from 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: overseas pop this morning. She's going the Speaker of the 26 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: House to visit Taiwan during her trip to Asia, sources 27 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: here saying as much to Bloomberg News. Although the White 28 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: House would not confirm that trip would be happening, we 29 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: did get a briefing today from retired Admiral John Kirby. 30 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: He was in the briefing room with reporters, of course, 31 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: speaking for the White House National Security Council, and some 32 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: very direct thoughts about this trip. Here. He is there 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: is no reason for Beijing to turn a potential visit 34 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: consistent with longstanding U S policy into some sort of 35 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,639 Speaker 1: crisis conflict, or use it as a pretext to increase 36 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: aggressive military activity in or around the Taiwan straight and 37 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: yet over the weekend, even before Speaker Pelosi arrived in 38 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: the region, China conducted a live fire exercise, and he 39 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: warned that more could be coming as the days go ahead. 40 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna hear more from John Kirby, who will be 41 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: talking with us later on this hour. Right now, we 42 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: want to pick the brain of someone who has been 43 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: there to Taiwan, and quite recently, the former Secretary of 44 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: Defense Mark Esper, of course from the Trump administration with 45 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: us now on sound on. Secretary, welcome back to Bloomberg. Thanks, So, 46 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: it's great to be with you. You've done this trip? 47 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 1: Is this a smart move for Nancy Pelosi to be going? Now? Well, 48 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: you're right, I did. I did it about ten days ago. 49 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: I spent three or four of those days with the 50 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: leadership in Taiwan and with Taiwan these business leaders, and 51 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: with American business people in Taiwan. So it was a 52 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: great trip. But I at the time when this was 53 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: first started talking being talked about that we should not 54 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: allow the Chinese Communist Party to dictate the travels of 55 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: American officials. So at this point they made it such 56 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: an issue that she has to go, and she should go, 57 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: and every evidence indicates that she she will be stopping 58 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: there in the next currently, so What message then would 59 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: it have sent if she did not go well, it 60 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: would it would have showed lack of resolve on behalf 61 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: of the United States and on the Biden administration in particular. 62 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: I know the Chinese don't make a distinction between the 63 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: Congress and executive branch, but but it would not have 64 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: looked good at a time when the leader of China 65 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: is making a move to get an unprecedented third term 66 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: as General Secretary of China. What did you hear when 67 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: you were in Taiwan? Was this all the talk? Were 68 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: they hoping that she would come? It was not all 69 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: the talk, of course it was. It was just starting 70 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: to break when I was there. More importantly, their focus 71 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: was on the war in Ukraine and lessons learned, and 72 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: it was and what that might mean as China moves 73 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: gets closer closer to its party congress in November, that's 74 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: when again j and Ping will get his third term, 75 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: and then the party leadership reshuffling that will happen in 76 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: the months following. It's it's beyond that point where they 77 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: where they getting uneasy about what China may or may 78 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: not do with regard to Taiwan status. General Millie has said, 79 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: the Pentagon is ready to get the speaker there safely. 80 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: If that's what's decided. It's not about politics for the 81 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: Defense Department. I just wonder the secretary, how difficult is 82 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: it for the Pentagon to provide security on a mission 83 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: like this. What's involved? Well, I think you see some 84 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: indications through the media that they're moving a carrier strike 85 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: group in the in the outside in the South China 86 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: see at least to be responsive. Is that why. That's 87 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: probably why the report is it was transitting up that 88 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: way as well. But if I were him, I would 89 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: be directing that we have assets nearby to to support 90 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: the trip in case something happens. You know, you've got 91 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: to be careful these things. People make miscalculations, young pilots 92 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: in the air or captains of ships who who do 93 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: the wrong thing, and one thing can escalate into another. 94 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: So you want to be prepared for the warst I 95 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: don't think any military confrontation is going to come out 96 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: of this. I think trying to make, you know, fly 97 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: more aircraft towards Taiwan or maybe you know, some some 98 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: missile shots into open waters and stuff like that. But 99 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: you've got to be careful you don't want to get blindsided. 100 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: There was You probably heard this. Chinese propaganda's broadcaster made 101 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: some headlines last week that even Speaker Pelosi repeated uh 102 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: in one of her briefings on Capitol Hill, suggesting that 103 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: she could be shot down if seen being escorted by 104 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: US military jets. You don't believe that, do you? No, 105 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: not at all. Look, that would be an act of war. 106 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: And I believe that the leadership in Beijing is is 107 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: far more responsible than that, and and our leadership is 108 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: equally responsible. So nobody wants a war. But this is 109 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: posturing again because is just a few short months away 110 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: trying to get his unprecedented right not since Smiles a 111 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: dawn't third term in office, and so this is important 112 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: to him. He can't show weakness at this point in time. 113 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: So they will, they will respond, but they're they're not 114 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: going to start a war over nor should a war 115 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: be started over this. So Secretary asked for what's the response? Then? 116 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: What what do you expect from Beijing when they see 117 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: the image of Speaker Felosi on the tarmac and Taipei. Well, 118 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: like I said, you could see that, you know, missile 119 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: missile Brage's shots into open waters outside of Tatwan somewhere. 120 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: You could see some type of cyber attack where they 121 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: try and shut down the infrastructure, the electrical grid or 122 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: something in in Taiwan for twenty four hours. Uh, maybe 123 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: more intrusions into Taiwan's air defense identification zone. You know 124 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: who knows. But they're going to calibrate very carefully to 125 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: send a message. It's gonna have to be more than 126 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: what they've done in the past, but not so much 127 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: as to provoke a tip for tat response between both countries. 128 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: CIA director William Burns gave an interview at the Aspen 129 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: Strategy Group Security for him. You may have even been there, 130 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: but he said he believes that President She is watching 131 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: you mentioned Ukraine, that she is watching Russia's operation. It's 132 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: war in Ukraine right now very closely. Here's what he said. 133 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: I wouldn't underestimate, um, you know, President She's determination to 134 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: assert China's control, the People's Republic of China's control over Taiwan. 135 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: Is he suggesting a military answer by China after seeing 136 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: what's happened in Ukraine? Is this actually in the works. Well, 137 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: the Chinese have always threatened the military response that comes 138 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: down to that, should Taiwan do something like declare independence. Look, 139 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: he's not the only one learning lessons. I the President 140 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: of Taiwan. She when she and I met for over 141 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: an hour, we talked about the lessons learned from Ukraine 142 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: as well, and and the gutsy determined leadership and and 143 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: fighting from the Ukrainians and what it means for the Taiwanese. 144 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: So I think everybody is watching what's happening. Look, I 145 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: think if if smart, a critical lesson learned should be uh, 146 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: can he trust what his military is telling him about 147 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: their own capabilities and about what they can cannot do. 148 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: Clearly that didn't happen with Vladimir Putin and the Russian military. 149 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: We saw very incompetent military unable to achieve its objectives. 150 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: And if I were Jisian being, I would be really questioning, 151 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: is my military up to any task? Or they just 152 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: tell me what I want to hear. So that's the 153 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: lesson then that China knows it wouldn't have to have 154 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: overwhelming force to make this viable. Look, it's it's on 155 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: amphibious assault. If if they go for the major end 156 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: of the operation, it's a very very difficult operation. You know, 157 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: d Day was the only hand to cross this. UH 158 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: go from the UK to France. And that's what this 159 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: is a tough operation and UH and but book there's 160 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: other things he could do. He could try a blockade 161 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: of Taiwan if we ever get to that point. Nobody 162 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: thinks that thinks that's gonna happen anytime. So it's at 163 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: least a few years away by by most accounts. If 164 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: China does strike Taiwan now or in a few years, 165 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: is that the equivalent of an Article five violation for 166 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: NATO allies? But in Asia, well, we don't have a 167 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: treaty with UH with Taiwan like we do with understood 168 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: with Japan. It's feeling like that though, isn't it. It 169 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: would clearly be, you know, an act of war against Taiwan. 170 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: The question remains, would the United States come to their assistance? Now? 171 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: President Biden has said three times, on three separate occasions, 172 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: that we would, which was an explicit acknowledgement of that, 173 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: and then the White House surprisingly went and walked it 174 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: back three times. So I've argued that the One China 175 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: policy has outlooked a usefulness and that we need to 176 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: have greater strategic clarity, not strategic ambiguity. In my view, 177 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: strength and resolved and an international global commitment by the 178 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: democracy of the world against the autocracies of the world 179 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: is critical in this day and age and going forward. Well, 180 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: you talked about this just a few days ago before 181 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: the Atlantic Council UH and issued a five point plan. 182 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: Rolled out your five point plan for Taiwan to deter China. 183 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: One of those points is defense and diplomacy. What does 184 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: Taiwan need from US they don't have now, Well, they 185 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: need to know that if they are invaded that we 186 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: will assist them with military means. Of course, direct action 187 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: logistics would be critical in this type of scenario. In fact, 188 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: we talked in Taipei about their immediate need for Stinger 189 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 1: anti aircraft missiles, for Javelin anti tank missiles, for the 190 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: high mars, things like that that they're trying to purchase, 191 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: but they want to know that we will be there. 192 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: My view is it's it can't just be the United States. 193 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: We should get the other democracies of the region, which 194 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: would be Japan and Korea and Australia also are NATO 195 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: allies from Europe to assist as well. I think those 196 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: that type of resolutism and resolved and unity by the 197 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: West show China that it's just not worth it to 198 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: invade this tiny island nation. It's no bigger than the 199 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: state of Maryland. It's just not worth going after them. 200 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: You just rolled out the same shopping list though that 201 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: basically we've been taken care of Ukraine with the same 202 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: uh Javelin missiles, Stinger missiles and so forth. Is there 203 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: going to be a conversation two years from now saying 204 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: we should have been arming Taiwan. I hope not. One 205 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: of the things that said in Taiwan is the dramatically 206 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: increase their defense budgets so that they can afford these capabilities, 207 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: and they have to atop a warfare defensive plan, which 208 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: has not been what they've done the past. Through their 209 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: own blood and courage, the Ukrainians have helped show Taiwan 210 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: the way, and it's critical now that they quickly quickly 211 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: move forward in terms of building up their defenses again, 212 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: not to not to try and defeat China, but to 213 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: deter military action in the first place. And I think 214 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: that's critical because look, nobody wants a war in Asia 215 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: between the United States and China. It would upset, you know, 216 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: the global order, the think about the global economy. How 217 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: would ripple across the world to Taiwan and heartbeat? Absolutely, yes, 218 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: I think we need to show them support, not just 219 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: to show support for a pretty loving people and a 220 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 1: robust democracy on Taiwan, but for her. Then go back 221 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: to Washington d C. Share with her colleagues what she 222 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: saw and figure out how do we continue to improve 223 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: us and allowed support for them. Insights from Mark Esper, 224 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: the former Secretary of Defense. It's great to have you back, Secretary. 225 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: We thank you today for being on Bloomberg. Thanks Joe. 226 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: Great with you coming up on the fastest hour in politics. 227 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: President Biden to address the nation tonight. Will tell you why. 228 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: As we assemble our panel, we'll check traffic and markets 229 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: for you on the way. On sound on, I'm Joe Matthew. 230 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on 231 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio with breaking news from Washington. 232 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: We're going to see and hear from President Biden tonight. 233 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: A late add to the schedule. He will address the 234 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: nation or you know so they say at seven thirty PM. 235 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: I suspect he'll be on time for an evening speech 236 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: like this. It's not very often. It's not prime time, 237 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: but not very often we hear from the President that late. 238 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: And it is, as you've seen on the terminal, possibly 239 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: by now, on a counter terrorism operation. This is not 240 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: something that we saw coming today. His official schedule says 241 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: the President will deliver remarks from the Blue Room balcony 242 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: on a successful counter terror operation. There's been more reporting 243 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg News, as you would expect, that this in 244 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: fact was a significant al Qaeda target in Afghanistan. The 245 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: Taliban says that a US drone bombed a house on 246 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: Saturday in Cobble, So it appears this was over the 247 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: weekend and something that we'll be talking a lot more 248 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: about as we learn more. But I just want to 249 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: bring in the panel on this. Well, it's fresh and 250 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: in the air. Bloomberg Politics contributor Democratic analyst Genie Schanzano 251 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: is here today along with Lester Months in principle at 252 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: government relations firm b g R Group, formerly staff director 253 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Your take on this, uh, 254 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: this this breaking news, Genie, is as we recall the 255 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: withdrawal from Afghanistan, and so much talk about over the 256 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: horizon targeting and over the horizon missions like us, we 257 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: uh apparently have our first case. Yeah, and this looks 258 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: like what we're gonna hear tonight. It's really stunning development. 259 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 1: The President obviously has COVID, as you mentioned. They say 260 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,599 Speaker 1: he's going to speak outdoors because it will be in 261 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: the Blue Room balcony. But you know, you think about 262 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: the fact that president will speak live at seven thirty 263 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: pm Eastern time, that means this had to be a 264 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: significant and successful attack. Um. And they mentioned the no 265 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: civilian casualties. There's talk that it may have been c 266 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: i A strikes And you know, it's stunning that if 267 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: this was over the weekend, we're just hearing about it now. 268 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: But then not so stunning because of course, since the 269 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: fall of Afghanistan or the fall of Kabble, we have 270 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: not had a lot of good media sources and information 271 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: coming out of there, So this is quite a development 272 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: in the last few minutes. What's your reaction to this, Lester, 273 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: when when you consider the idea that we had a 274 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: feeling there'll be a lot of these following our withdrawal 275 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: from Afghanistan that was going to be the new st rategy. 276 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: This is the first a drone strike, the first publicly 277 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: known CIA strikes that we know about. Well, great question, Joe. 278 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: I think probably best to reserve judgment and until we 279 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: know more. I think it's I think it's an interesting 280 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: decision by the administration to go so public on this. 281 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: You know, basically a year after the government fell in 282 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: Afghanistan and the Taliban took over, that was the beginning 283 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: of President Biden's slide in the polls. Uh, this how 284 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: significant is this event? We will find out what was 285 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: the role, if any, of the Taliban, what are what 286 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: is the state of our conversations with them in terms 287 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: of counter terrorism. This will all be very interesting to learn. Uh, 288 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: And I really do hope the President has a lot 289 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: of good news to share. But having said that, it's 290 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: a very interesting decision. The timing, of course, coming rate 291 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: about the time we think Speaker Pelosi is like to 292 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: be in Taiwan, so there's a lot of stuff going 293 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: on right now here at the beginning of August. Well, 294 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: what's your take on Pelosi's trip? Then, Genie, this is 295 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: what I thought we'd be talking about at this moment 296 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: she she could be on the ground within hours. I 297 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: guess we should not be surprised. This is what Nancy 298 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: Pelosi does. Yeah, I mean, she's been a long time 299 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: China hawk. Um. You know, we can't forget that. Just 300 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: last late last week, as this trip was being publicly discussed, 301 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: the Congress passed the China Competition the Chips Act, and 302 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: so that was a big moment for her. This is 303 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: somebody who for decades has been committed to defending Taiwan. Um. 304 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: You know, some people are describing this as a culmination 305 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: of her career as she faces potentially being ousted as 306 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: Speaker of the House, and who knows if she will 307 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: leave the house shortly after that. So from that perspective, 308 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: it is not stunning, but it is going to be 309 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: an incredibly fraught twenty four to forty eight hours if 310 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: we listen to the rhetoric coming out of Beijing, and 311 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: of course now we're hearing it may be an overnight stay, 312 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: which quite astounded me because you know, a couple hours 313 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: on the ground is one thing, overnight stay is something else. 314 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: And and you know, people are saying China is going 315 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: to have to respond, and the question is how well, 316 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting. Uh, once we actually have 317 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,479 Speaker 1: the imagery, it's going to feel differently less. But when 318 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: you heard the news, did you think it was a 319 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: smart move? I think she had no choice. Um, she 320 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: couldn't back down. And you know, let me just say, Joe, 321 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: kudos to Speaker Pelosi. She she's got guts, she's got courage, 322 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: she's standing up for the right thing. She's been very 323 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: good on this issue throughout her career. And I just 324 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: I will just throw out there. A few months ago, 325 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: right as Russia was invading Ukraine, it was Speaker Pelosi 326 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: who stood up to the administration, to the Biden administration 327 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: and said we're going to prohibit Russian oil imports into 328 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: the United States Like she and and a whole bunch 329 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: of other measures. She is the backbone and a lot 330 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: of ways of this administration and the White House. In 331 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: a way, I ought to be thanking her. If Joe 332 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: Biden hadn't said publicly that the military didn't think it 333 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: was a good time for her to go, would she 334 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: have been backed into a corner? I think if this 335 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: hadn't become public. Of course, isn't that what made this 336 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: an issue? If he hadn't said that, she could have 337 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: rescheduled this. I think once it became public, she had 338 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: to go uh. And and so the question might be, 339 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: you know who, who leaked this? Why did they leak at? UH? 340 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: Congressional delegations like this or codels are always very closely 341 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: held information, particularly to a sensitive destination like this. Genie, 342 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: should the President not have said that, would we be 343 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: having this conversation right now? It should not have been 344 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: discussed publicly. I think that was a big problem, and 345 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: it put us in a very difficult situation in China. 346 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: People reporting they may move against Taiwan within the next 347 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: year or so. That's a big, big trouble for the US. 348 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: Genie and Lester will stay with us as we learn 349 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: more about the President's speech to the nation to night 350 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: a successful counter terrorism attack, We'll have more ahead on 351 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg as we consider what might come next from Nancy Pelosi. 352 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: Is a parent trip to Taiwan not something that the 353 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: White House would confirm today. Strangely, I guess to a 354 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: point because while the administration has to provide the travel 355 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: and security, We've talked about this if you listen to 356 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: sound on you know this, but John Kirby brief reporters 357 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: today at the White House. Headlines have been flying for 358 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: hours at that point they had to get out there 359 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: to answer some questions, of course, and he was very 360 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: adamant about the fact the White House supports this trip. 361 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: As you heard earlier this hour, there's precedent for this trip, 362 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: and uh, nothing changes in terms of US China policy. 363 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: Nobody has said anything that should create any drama, has 364 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: been his point. But there was a live fire exercise 365 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: last night, and Kirby did warn that there could be 366 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: more where that came from here. He is China appears 367 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: to be positioning itself to potentially take further steps in 368 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: the coming days and perhaps over longer time. Her rises. 369 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: These potential steps from China could include military provocations such 370 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: as firing missiles in the Taiwan Straight or around Taiwan, 371 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: operations that break historical norms such as large scale air 372 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: entry into Taiwan's air defense identification zone. None of that would, 373 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: of course be very good. I had a chance to 374 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: talk with him today, John Kirby with US Live on 375 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg TV and Radio, and I started by asking him 376 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: what we were talking about earlier with the panel. If 377 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is already going and this is being conducted 378 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: very quietly. Why then would Joe Biden say publicly that 379 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: the military thought this was a bad time. Here's where 380 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: we start with, Johnny. I think the President was answering 381 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: her question you got from a reporter that surrounded her 382 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: the context of the kinds of information we give to 383 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: Speaker Pelosi before she travels. We met with her staff 384 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: and with her at various levels before she made this 385 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: trip to make sure that she could make the best 386 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: decisions on her own. That she had all the information 387 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: and context she needed, and the President was referencing that. 388 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: But it is up to this speaker. She gets to 389 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: decide what her travel it generator looks like. The President 390 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: respects that, and I realized that that you are not 391 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: confirming this trip, but if she does in fact show up. 392 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: You mentioned the fact that there were live fire exercises 393 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: conducted by China last night, and you said that the 394 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: country is positioning itself to potentially take further steps in 395 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: the coming days. I spoke earlier, Admiral Today with Defense 396 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: Secretary Mark Esper, who suggested that the U. S. S. 397 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan was sent to the region in case Speaker 398 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: Pelosi did visit Taiwan. Is that accurate? No, that Ronald 399 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: Reagan UH is already forward deployed to the region. Her 400 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: her UH activities in the South China see we're long planned. Um. 401 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: We keep a vigilant posture in the Indo Pacific because 402 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: we need to. But it was not related to any 403 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: potential visit by Speaker Pelosi. Admiral Kirby, you have preferred 404 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: a few times, as you did in the briefing today, 405 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: about consultations that the administration had with Speaker Pelosi's office 406 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: on the possibility that this may happen. Did you discuss 407 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: any sort of overt actions or news conferences, or any 408 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: activities that that she might be reluctant to conduct while 409 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: there so as to not inflame tensions. Does the White 410 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: House have any input on her activities while she is there. 411 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: Our our job is to make sure she has all 412 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: the information she needs and to make sure from a 413 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: security perspective, that she can make a trip wherever it 414 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: is safely and securely. The Speaker decides what she's gonna do, 415 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: where she's gonna go, what she's gonna say when she's 416 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: on the ground. UM, we simply provided her information in 417 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: context so that she can make decisions about her travel. 418 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: General Millie has suggested that the Pentagon is prepared if 419 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: she decides to go, to provide whatever security is necessary. 420 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: Can you just clarify for our listeners. But while I 421 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: understand the White House is not behind this trip or 422 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: making decisions on it, it is in fact the administration 423 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: that would provide her transportation and secure She routinely travels 424 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: aboard US military transportation aircraft. She is on this trip, 425 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: so of course we help herget where she's going. Um 426 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: and depending on where she's going, we might also be 427 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: called in to help make sure that she can do 428 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: so safely and securely. I'm not going to talk about 429 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: that what those protocols might be for a trip like this. 430 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: I can just tell you that we are committed to 431 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: making sure hey, she has all the information she needs 432 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: and that and that when she travels, she can do 433 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: so in a safe and secure way. Admiral, among the 434 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: possible actions that that you predicted or or warned of, 435 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: I should say in the briefing was a large scale 436 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: incursion into Taiwan's airspace. If China did do something like that, 437 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: would there be a US military response. What I said 438 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: was a potential large scale UH incursion into their air 439 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: defense identification zone. That's different than their national uh not national, 440 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: that's different than airspace. It's a air air defense identification zone. 441 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: And again I don't want to speculate about US military act, 442 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: but he's one way or another um that we we 443 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: were going to watch this very very closely. There's no 444 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: reason for it erupt into conflict, and I don't want 445 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: to speculate beyond that. Speaking with us from the White 446 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: House a couple of hours ago here you heard it 447 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: live on Bloomberg Radio as it happened. Wanted to spend 448 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: that back just so you could get a sense of 449 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: the conversation here in the language that Kirby and the 450 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: administration are using around this. As we reassembled our panel 451 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: with more to discuss now that we actually had a 452 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: chance to hear from Admiral Kirby. We want to bring 453 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: back Lester Munson from b g R Group and Genie Chanzano, 454 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: of course, Bloomberg Politics contributor. It's interesting, Genie, it's like 455 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: the administration is talking about this as if it might 456 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: learn that the speaker is going on the news with 457 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: everyone else. But in fact they have to be involved 458 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: in the planning. But why not just on this and say, 459 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: you know what, We're gonna go to Taiwan anytime we want. Yeah, 460 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: you know, clearly the President wasn't uh, you know, excited 461 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: about this trip. He wasn't supportive of the but you know, 462 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: they sort of, I think publicly backed themselves into a corner. 463 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: And I think the real question here, and it's so 464 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: fascinating to hear from Kirby first hand, is what does 465 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: this do about our sort of dual postures as it 466 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: pertains to Taiwan. On the one hand, we keep saying 467 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: we adhere to this one China policy. We hear Kirby 468 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: saying that. On the other hand, we'd hear that the 469 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: Taiwan's Relations Act, we're going to help them better defend themselves. 470 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: I've had people raised the issue what kind of defense 471 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: is that? Is that a proxy defense or is that 472 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: in actually going into defend as Again, we're hearing notes 473 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: that China is you know, potentially at least White House 474 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: officials concerned thinking about following Russia and going into Taiwan 475 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: within the next year or so. Lester, what's this arrival 476 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: gonna look like I mean, I'm not I'm assuming we're 477 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: not going to do red carpets and orchestras and parades 478 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: and so forth. Is this going to look uh different 479 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: than it would have otherwise if it were not for 480 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: this conversation. Uh, you know, I don't think it's going 481 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: to be that different. I strongly suspect we're not going 482 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: to see it in real time, that the speaker will 483 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: in fact get a very warm reception from the Taiwan 484 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: and East. They're obviously very appreciative of the fact that 485 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: she is visiting. They have a very strong relationship in general. 486 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: And I think we're gonna we're gonna see this after 487 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: the fact, after she has left the island. Lester Months 488 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: and Jeanie Schanzano come back with us as we reassemble 489 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: the panel next with a lot more to talk about. 490 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: We haven't even touched reconciliation and the challenge that lies 491 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: before Democrats this week in the U S. Senate kirston 492 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: Cinema is still not on board. I'm Joe Matthew. This 493 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound On with Joe 494 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The targets has been named. President 495 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: Biden will tell the nation tonights and an address at 496 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: seven thirty p m. Washington Time, that a successful US 497 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: counter terrorism operation was carried out over the weekend in Afghanistan. 498 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,239 Speaker 1: The Associated Press that says that target was i'm An 499 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: al Zawari, the terrorist known for being the leader of 500 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: al Qaeda for what the last decade since two thousand eleven. 501 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: Let's reassemble the panel for more as we anticipate what 502 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: the President might tell us. Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie Schanzano 503 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: is with us today along with Lester months and of 504 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: b g R Group. What does the President need to say? Genie? 505 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: This isn't top of mind for a lot of Americans. 506 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: There have been so many topics flying out of Washington. 507 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: It's been difficult for people to kind of balance them all. 508 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: Although I suspect that's why this is an evening address 509 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: and something that needs to be written deliberately. Getting back 510 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: to my question, what does that speech need to include? 511 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: You know, I think he needs to tell us the facts, 512 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 1: what happened, how it happened, to confirm that there were 513 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: no civilian casualties, but I think what we're also going 514 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: to hear is a little bit about what we've heard 515 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: before the Senate Armed Services Committee in the last few months, 516 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: which is from people from the d A, the d 517 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: i A, and elsewhere who have said that ISIS and 518 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: al Qaeda are between six months and a year or 519 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: longer before they can have the ability or away from 520 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: having the ability to attack Western targets, including the United States. 521 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: In other words, they remain a real threat. And we've 522 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: heard that repeatedly in some of these committees. That news 523 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: doesn't often get out to the public given everything going on. 524 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: So I think the President is going to talk about that, 525 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: and this is a significant development. If this is what 526 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: the president talks about, As you mentioned, this will be 527 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: just the second transition in al Qaeda leadership in thirty years. 528 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: And he has led this group since Osama bin Laden 529 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: was killed. Yeah, well so again even more than a decade. 530 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: Uh I'll Zawari is not a household name in this 531 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: country though Leicester. But this is a big deal. How 532 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: does the president elevate the moment to match the target? Well, 533 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: this is a potentially big moment for President Biden, right, 534 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: if true, is the successor to Ben Laden as the 535 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: leader of al Qaeda. Notably, Joe Biden when he was 536 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: Vice president, opposed the operation that actually killed Bin Laden 537 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: in Pakistan's many years ago. So let's hear about his 538 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: decision making process, about how this happened, the role of 539 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: the Taliban, if any how this was carried out. Has 540 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: he become a different decision maker than he was back 541 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: in That will be very interesting to find out. We're 542 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: going to get the photograph from the situation room and 543 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: the rest that comes with this, or although I guess, 544 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: you know, now that I think about a genie, the 545 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: President's had COVID, he was probably on a zoom screen. Yeah, 546 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: he could have been, And that's going to be you know, 547 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: interesting to see, you know, for the president. This is 548 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: also critically important because one of the big missteps, if 549 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 1: is saying it's sort of mildly of his tenures so 550 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: far has been the withdrawal from Afghanistan. And what he 551 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: promised at that point was even though we don't have 552 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: troops on the ground, we would be able to this 553 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,959 Speaker 1: over horizon strike capability to take out threats. And he 554 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: is going to be able to make good on that 555 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: if indeed that's what we're gonna here tonight. So this 556 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: is going to a big moment for him to address 557 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: his critics in terms of the the not necessarily nature 558 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: of the withdrawal, but the ability to you know, live 559 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: up to the promises he made. Well, that's true. And 560 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: with regard to Over the Horizon, Lester, there was a 561 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: lot of argument about that. You were here for some 562 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: of it on sound on about whether this was a 563 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: responsible strategy or or it would be the US lobbin 564 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: more cruise missiles in the countries that create more terrorists. This, 565 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: this particular case, looks like a win if you're if 566 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: if you're getting the head of the organization, Over the 567 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: Horizon sounds pretty good. It does sound pretty good if 568 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: if this all bears out, and because early reports are accurate, 569 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: it's it's terrifically good news in the United States. It's 570 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: good news, uh for for the president. Um, but I 571 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: do think we should put this, you know, and and 572 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: kudos to him if if that's how all this came out. 573 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: Let's see this in the broader picture of our efforts 574 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: against terrorism globally, though, what what else is happening in Afghanistan? 575 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: What are the other consequences of our withdrawal. This is 576 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: one event. It may be a very significant one, but 577 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,239 Speaker 1: we do need to kind of put it in the 578 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: constellation of all of the other information that we have. Yeah, 579 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: that's a that's for sure. If if this is going 580 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: to be the moment though that that you've kind of described, 581 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: it could be as this is, well, this is a 582 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: big deal. As Joe Biden might say, how important is 583 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: the writing of that speech versus the delivery? Does he 584 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: need to have a line that we remember tomorrow? Is 585 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: this one of those moments in the administration that will 586 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: be part of the real you know? Um, Joe Biden 587 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: is an interesting communicator. I think you have to say. 588 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: There are times when he seems, you know, like he's 589 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: he's a little too old, and he's maybe he's lost 590 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: a step and he kind of messes steps on some lines. 591 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: There's other times when he is very real and connects 592 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: to Americans and has that kind of blue collar, uh, 593 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: you know, make your own way kind of attitude about things. 594 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: I think he needs to get in touch with that 595 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, that real guy from Scranton who's you know, 596 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: who's able to go talk to the union guys at 597 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: the plant about gun control when they don't want to 598 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: hear about it. He's he's got to kind of get 599 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: into the Joe Biden that won this election and not 600 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: the guy who has been a little overmanaged by his staff. Well, 601 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: my goodness, he is an isolation genie. I don't know 602 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: if that if that affects anything here, but there are 603 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: a couple of different ways to look at this. You 604 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: know that that he's powering through that, he's the example 605 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: of what all workers ought to be, uh to aspire 606 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: to if they come down with COVID, you know, you're 607 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: pushing through it. But this rebound case is something that 608 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: got a lot of talk over the weekend. You know, 609 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: he's stuck up there in the residents. Apparently he's going 610 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: to be speaking to us from the Blue Room balcony. 611 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: As we mentioned at the top of the program, how 612 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: do you look like you're still connected? Well, he's been 613 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: trying as they've sent out these videos and these pictures, 614 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: and then there's been some discus was masking and unmasking, 615 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: and you know, I think the point tonight for the president, 616 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: there's nothing more important from any president, Democrat or Republican 617 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: that they keep the nations secure from internal and external 618 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: security threats. And so tonight, if he can show that 619 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: he took down with the help of the obviously the 620 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: the U. S Military, the CIA, this enormous threat in 621 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: terms of the leader of al Qaeda, that is a 622 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: big deal, as Joe Biden likes to say, and it 623 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: is something that all Americans can you end, people around 624 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: the world, as Lester mentioned, can unite behind. And again 625 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: I think we have to be cautious because we're just 626 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: hearing these reports. We don't know what he's going to say. 627 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: But if that's the case, I think he will be 628 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: able to show that kind of strength, even given his 629 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: second bout with COVID, which he's been trying to you know, 630 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: push through. So I done properly, Lester, This not only 631 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: announces a successful counter terrorism operation, but it serves, as 632 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: you know the photograph with the newspaper today, he gets 633 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: up there and shows the world that he has not 634 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: been compromised by COVID, even though this is a rebound 635 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: and there are some concerns about his age. Well and Joe, 636 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: it shows he's the most consequential policymaker in Washington. Because 637 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: I gotta say until about an hour ago, I would 638 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: have said that was Speaker Pelosi. She's the one determining 639 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: the agenda on Taiwan, she was the one pushing for 640 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: the tough line on Ukraine. Joe Biden, You've got a 641 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 1: chance to kind of return to being the alpha. One 642 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,479 Speaker 1: thing he's not talking about tonight is reconciliation, Genie. Uh, 643 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: Joe Manchin did the the full Ginsburg. Although I read 644 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: it in the playbook, it's not really unless you do 645 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: it in person. You actually have to drive from network 646 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: studio to network studio. But what a messenger, uh, you know, 647 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: and Joe Biden is spinning a lot of plates at 648 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: the moment. Kirsen Cinema, as I mentioned before, still has 649 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: not committed to this deal, and it's been quite a 650 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: number of days. I'm sure her voicemail is full. Genie, 651 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 1: how does Joe Biden manage this? On top of that? 652 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, it was fascinating to seem man and 653 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: the other Joe. Um, you're are Joe, but the other 654 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 1: Joe in in Washington out on all the Sunday shows. Um. Uh. 655 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: You know, I think that Joe Biden has tried purposely, 656 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: to purposefully to stay behind the scenes. He's been you know, 657 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: we were here, he's been working the phones. They really 658 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: do need to get Kristen Cinema on board. And I 659 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: think one big danger this is a very good time 660 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: for Democrats this last few days, but one big danger 661 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: is they can't, you know, issue a victory party or 662 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: a victory signed prematurely and have this thing fall through 663 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: and there's major bumps in the road. You still have 664 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: the bird Bath and you've got Kristen Cinema, and then 665 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 1: you've got to get this thing through the House. So 666 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: if I was the president, I think he should stay 667 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: behind the scenes and push as much as he can 668 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: forward without sort of going out and claiming a victory 669 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,479 Speaker 1: on reconciliation until it's all done. It's on his desk. 670 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: I don't get about this whole conversation here. Uh, just 671 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm reminded every time I see Joe Manchin on Sunday 672 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: Morning Lester that this isn't done yet and all if 673 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: things could still go wrong, Well there's this sort of 674 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: victory lap that's happening. Uh, let's listen to him on ABC. 675 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: This is Joe Manchon. When he was asked like, hey, 676 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: what about kirston cinema. You guys did this without her, 677 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: as she had saying this, here's Joe Manchin. I haven't 678 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: had any conversations with anybody doing the process because I 679 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: wasn't ever sure that we would get to the finale 680 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: here to get a completed bill. There's nothing on taxes 681 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: at all. There's not one one penny of change in taxes. 682 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: I have no idea where they're coming at. That was 683 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: the other refrains who no new taxes, just closing loophole's lester, 684 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: does this have a better chance than build back better? 685 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: When it comes to the senator from Arizona, you don't know, uh. 686 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: And I do take a little bit of issue with 687 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: laying us on Joe Manchon. This is Chuck Schummer's job. 688 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: He's the majority leader to bring people together to this. 689 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: That's right, he was and it's his job to know 690 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: where the folks were most likely to be the stray 691 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: cats are going, and he's got to keep them in 692 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: the full that's his number one job. This is on 693 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer. This is not on Joe Mansion. This is 694 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: this is the majority of leaders obligation in that position 695 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: to keep his caucus together. His first call should have 696 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: been to Senator Cinema. You's got to say something in 697 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: the next couple of days. Genie, how much time does 698 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 1: she have. She'll have to speak rather quickly, and we 699 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: know Kristen Cinema she doesn't like to speak a lot, 700 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: but she's going to be forced out. Reporters are going 701 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: to be crawling. Lester, great to have you, thank you 702 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: for being with us, and of course Jeannie Chantano, politics contributor, 703 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,720 Speaker 1: on what's going to be an important night, Joe Biden 704 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: addressing the nation seven thirty pm. As we've been discussing 705 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: on sound on, we'll meet you back here tomorrow talk 706 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: about it. This is Bloomberg