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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penl Podcast. I'm Paul swing you.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Brahma Wicks. Each day

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Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money. Whether at the grocery store or

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Speaker 1: the trading floor, find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple

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Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as

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Speaker 1: that Bloomberg dot com. Well. As we dig deeper into

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Speaker 1: the two point four trillion dollars stimulus bill the US

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Speaker 1: Congress past, we are finding all sorts of interesting provisions.

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Speaker 1: One highlighted my President Trump himself the idea that there

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Speaker 1: would be ten billion dollars that would go to the

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Speaker 1: US Postal Service to help support and plug some of

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Speaker 1: the gaps that have emerged in the wake of the coronavirus. However,

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Speaker 1: President Trump saying that unless the Postal Service raises its prices,

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Speaker 1: particularly on last mile delivery packages, it will instruct Secretary

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Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Stephen Manuchin to withhold that ten billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Tim O'Brien, who's a senior columnist with Bloomberg Opinion, joining

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Speaker 1: us now. Tim always wonderful to hear what you have

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Speaker 1: to say about this. How much of a surprise was

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Speaker 1: this to people who saw President Trump pinpoint this specific issue. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's a surprise that you know, he

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Speaker 1: wants he's seeking change at the Postal Service. The Postal

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Speaker 1: Service needs change. Uh. Nor is it a surprise that

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Speaker 1: he's focused in again on the pricing the Postal Service

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Speaker 1: charges for packages. However, the way he's focusing on it

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Speaker 1: is incorrect. The package delivery piece of the post Office

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Speaker 1: is business, is its most robust and profitable. It's mail

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Speaker 1: carrying that's a problem for the post Office. I think

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Speaker 1: what was surprising was he was in the Oval Office

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Speaker 1: and he simply said what everyone has suspected has been

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Speaker 1: on his mind for a long time, is that he

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Speaker 1: singled out Amazon dot com as as one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons he has um this animosity towards the Postal Service.

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Speaker 1: President Trump has said that the Postal Service loses money

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Speaker 1: on every package is that delivers. Is that right? Nope,

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Speaker 1: it's not correct. Again, that's a that's a very profitable

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Speaker 1: part of the postal services business and has been, you know,

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Speaker 1: alongside the boom and e commerce. Uh. The Postal Service

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Speaker 1: plays a really important role for commercial deliverers like FedEx

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Speaker 1: and US and ups um delivering packages through the so

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Speaker 1: called last mile to people's homes. It's not efficient or

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Speaker 1: really profitable for the commercial carriers to use, so they

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Speaker 1: rely on the post post office for that, and that

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Speaker 1: has been a really bright spot in the postal services business.

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Speaker 1: Over the last fourteen to fifteen years or so, mail

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Speaker 1: carrying has really declined, and that's always been the lions share.

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Speaker 1: The post Office is business and that's where they're really hurting,

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Speaker 1: and that's what they need to fix. So the president's

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Speaker 1: identifying the wrong thing. Tim, I want to switch gears

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Speaker 1: a little bit and move from the postal service to

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Speaker 1: just the general two point four trillion dollar bailout, In particular,

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Speaker 1: the p p P the area that was in did

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Speaker 1: to help support small businesses. How good is the oversight

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Speaker 1: of that program, Given the fact that we're learning that

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Speaker 1: a good proportion of the money has gone to either

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Speaker 1: publicly traded companies or others who had other means of financing,

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Speaker 1: it's clearly not good enough at all, Lisa, and this

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Speaker 1: was something I think we talked about a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago when the first tranche of money launched the

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Speaker 1: first billion. Um uh. You know, I personally think it's

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Speaker 1: a good idea that we're we're supporting businesses in this crisis,

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Speaker 1: but I think it has to be supported in a

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Speaker 1: really efficient and rational way. And the problem with that

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Speaker 1: first big trunch of money, as we now know, is

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Speaker 1: it went to people who had either other resources, other

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Speaker 1: companies that have other resources to raise funds, or we're

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Speaker 1: simply too big to fit any of the definitions that

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Speaker 1: program had for a small business, which was five hundred

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Speaker 1: employees or left. Um. I think based on my own

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Speaker 1: back of the envelope math, only about five percent of

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Speaker 1: the country's small businesses got money in that first round.

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Speaker 1: And so now we have a second round that's larger billion,

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Speaker 1: and there's still really isn't enough good oversighting place. The

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Speaker 1: General Accountability Office is going to be um watching some

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Speaker 1: of this. They're, you know, very well regarded bipartisan organization,

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Speaker 1: but they don't report until the end of June at

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Speaker 1: the earliest, and all of the other congressional and White

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Speaker 1: House watchdog organizations aren't up and running yet. I was

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Speaker 1: struck by a story today on the Bloomberg about study

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Speaker 1: that showed that only of the money went to small

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Speaker 1: businesses in areas that were the hardest hit by the coronavirus.

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Speaker 1: Is your sense that this next tronch of financing that

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Speaker 1: starts getting distributed this week will be more equally distributed?

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Speaker 1: One would hope there's not enough transparency yet to know.

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Speaker 1: And and so that's a great question you're raising LESA,

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Speaker 1: and it's and and the and and Bloomberg News is

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Speaker 1: reporting on that is is really important. I think the

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Speaker 1: other thing we don't know is p p P is

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Speaker 1: a payroll protection plan. It's meant to help workers get

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Speaker 1: over this hump during this crisis, and we really don't

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Speaker 1: have any auditing arm in place to know if the

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Speaker 1: companies are even actually using it for payroll. And I

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Speaker 1: have this, you know, lingering, journalistic, cynical kind of worry

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Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, will never know

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Speaker 1: if a god to the workers. So what should happen here?

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Speaker 1: Tim from an oversight perspective, real quickly twenty seconds, um,

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Speaker 1: I think I think it should happen at the federal

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Speaker 1: level in the White House to begin with. I think

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Speaker 1: they need to screen right out of the gate who's

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Speaker 1: getting the money, and there should be really clear criteria

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Speaker 1: for why and how they're getting it and how they're

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Speaker 1: going to use it. Tim O'Brian, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. We appreciate your thoughts. As always Tim O'Brian's

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Speaker 1: senior columns for Bloomberg Opinion. Check out his column UH

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Speaker 1: today on the Bloomberg and Bloomberg dot Com. Trump views

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Speaker 1: post office as a way to settle scores. Interesting column,

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Speaker 1: interesting take on that on a big issue. There you

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Speaker 1: can read all of Tim's work at Bloomberg dot com,

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Speaker 1: slash Opinion or on the terminal at O P I

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Speaker 1: n go for all of Bloomberg Opinion work. Well, we

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Speaker 1: are now in probably week five or six of this quarantine,

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Speaker 1: more and more of us working from home. The question is,

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Speaker 1: are we more or less productive than we are when

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Speaker 1: we are in our workplace? Uh Nicholas Bloom, professor of

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Speaker 1: economics at Stanford University, has done a lot of work

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Speaker 1: on this concept. We welcome uh Professor Bloom. So professor,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. I know initially your

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Speaker 1: work suggested that working from alms actually you could be

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Speaker 1: more productive. Is that's still the case in the world

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Speaker 1: of the coronavirus. Yes, I looked at you know, a

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Speaker 1: number of studies, and normally working from home is at

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Speaker 1: least to a big increase in productivity. But we're coronavirus.

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Speaker 1: We've got four big issues. One many of us have

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Speaker 1: our kids are home, which is she's distracting. Uh open,

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Speaker 1: don't have our own and so a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are staring living room. When I looked at working from home,

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Speaker 1: we looked at people who chose to work from home,

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Speaker 1: and you know, many of us did not show him

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Speaker 1: would not like to do so. And then finally, um,

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Speaker 1: we also looked at working from home part time, so

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Speaker 1: something like of Americans with a graduate from home a

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Speaker 1: day a week, but only super century full time. But

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Speaker 1: we're now all forced at home full time. I will say, Nick,

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Speaker 1: in a research recent research published that you you put

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Speaker 1: out there. You said working from home with your children

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Speaker 1: as a productivity disaster. My four year old regularly bursts

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Speaker 1: into the room hoping to find me in a playful mood,

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Speaker 1: shouting do do her nickname for me? In the middle

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Speaker 1: of conference calls. We've all been there, Nick, And I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering how much is this simply a parenting issue versus

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Speaker 1: a non parenting issue or something broader about this idea

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Speaker 1: of being more productive when you're face to face with

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Speaker 1: coworkers and in an office environment. So there is a

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Speaker 1: big issue, may you know, I thought year does burst

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Speaker 1: in in fact, why you know, our older kids are

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Speaker 1: learning to play the bagpipe, and though which is worse.

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Speaker 1: Even setting that aside, there's a bigger issue. Once we

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Speaker 1: go back post COVID, around one third of jobs only

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Speaker 1: are suitable to work from home. So there's a study

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Speaker 1: out of Chicago University that looked at jobs and you know,

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Speaker 1: for managers, for a senior people, you know, for journalist

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Speaker 1: for example, much of this can be done at home,

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Speaker 1: but the large parts of the economy we can't do that.

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Speaker 1: So for some of us it's fantastic when our kids

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Speaker 1: are back at school and when we have you know,

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Speaker 1: space and time. But I don't think it's ever going

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Speaker 1: to be like it was now, which is free time.

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Speaker 1: It turns out the evidence is strongly needs something like

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Speaker 1: three days a week to be in the office to

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Speaker 1: be motivating and creative. And the problem is now we

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Speaker 1: just don't have that eye that's not even kids. There's

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Speaker 1: no face efface interactions. So professor, I mean, some people

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Speaker 1: have been suggesting that this is going to accelerate the

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Speaker 1: work from home kind of Um, I guess migration that's

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Speaker 1: been taking place really over the last ten fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that is reasonable to assume. Yes, definitely.

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Speaker 1: So we we went from before COVID from a level

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Speaker 1: of working from homers it was common one day a week,

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Speaker 1: but it was extremely rare full time obviously even now

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Speaker 1: all working from home full time to post COVID. But

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Speaker 1: I think we're just back to a higher level, but

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Speaker 1: a lot like we are now. So I think it

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Speaker 1: would be most jobs will probably allow their employees to

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Speaker 1: work from home something like two I doubt memory encourage

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Speaker 1: all the time. And that's going to have a huge impact.

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Speaker 1: Even how attractive is it to live in the center,

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Speaker 1: don't have to commute in five those weeks, why not

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Speaker 1: further out? So I think it's just going to be

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Speaker 1: a huge impact. Um. You know. A great example is

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Speaker 1: London after the London Olympics two thousand and twelve, they

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Speaker 1: shot the center of London for three weeks to avoid

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Speaker 1: congestion and those sort of mtic long run pickup and

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Speaker 1: working from home because of the success that I think,

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Speaker 1: because it's kind of like a bigger at so Nick,

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Speaker 1: there's this question. The reason why this is so important

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Speaker 1: to so many people right now, in addition to just

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Speaker 1: what the future holds for people who do have the

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Speaker 1: privilege of being able to work from home, is the

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Speaker 1: fate of commercial real estate going forward? And you've had

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Speaker 1: a lot of business leaders from Work in Stanley CEO

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Speaker 1: to Black Black Rocks CEO come out and say that

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Speaker 1: they think one of the bigger consequences of this is

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Speaker 1: that companies will need less real estate. Does this sort

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Speaker 1: of mark the death of commercial real estate, of the

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Speaker 1: sort of big office given the fact that people will

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Speaker 1: be able to work from home more frequently, or are

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Speaker 1: those calls getting a little ahead of themselves. No, I

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Speaker 1: think it's a you know, it's a bleak time for

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Speaker 1: commercial real estate and also actually residential real estate in

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Speaker 1: the center of cities. If we go from you know,

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Speaker 1: working from home, that is very rare. So let's say

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Speaker 1: two out of five days a week you continue, you

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Speaker 1: probably need school blessed office space even can't perfectly hot

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Speaker 1: death stands that, you know, that kind of top and demand,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be problematic. It's not obvious by the

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Speaker 1: way you want still maintain big officers. I just think

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Speaker 1: we need less of them unless those headquarters. So that's

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Speaker 1: going to be a big switch. If you look at

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Speaker 1: firms that do working from home, they don't typically operate

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Speaker 1: smaller satellite officers. They just required people are coming less

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Speaker 1: presently to their may not. Nicholas Bloom, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for being with us, and good luck working from

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Speaker 1: home with the kids and the bagpipes. Nicholas Bloom, professor

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Speaker 1: of economics at Stanford University, joining us from Stanford, California.

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Speaker 1: We know this too, cute. G D print is going

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Speaker 1: to be ugly. The question is how ugly and how

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Speaker 1: long will it remain at those depressed levels of Welcome

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Speaker 1: Tom or Like, chief economist for Bloomberg Economics, he joins

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Speaker 1: us on the phone. Tom, thanks so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: I know Bloomberg Economics is that with some new research.

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Speaker 1: What is your update and current economic outlook as we

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Speaker 1: await the second quarter GDP print. Um, So it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty bleak outlook, Paul Um. Globally we are now looking

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Speaker 1: at a contraction of four for the year. That's our

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Speaker 1: base case. UM. Now, if we think back to two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine, the Great financial crisis that was a

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Speaker 1: pretty bad year. The global economy that year only shrank,

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Speaker 1: not point two. So our base case is actually something

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Speaker 1: substantially more negative. If we look in more detail at

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Speaker 1: the United States, looking at the looking at the first

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Speaker 1: quarter number, well, it kind of depends how much the

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Speaker 1: lockdown hit. It came right at the end of March.

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Speaker 1: We'll see how much it it took off that first

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Speaker 1: quarter of print. The second quarter, certainly we're looking at

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Speaker 1: a very steep contraction. Our US team is penciling in

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Speaker 1: a thirty seven annualized drop in the second quarter. I'm

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Speaker 1: struggling to pair these increasingly bleak outlooks with the optimism

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Speaker 1: that we're seeing in markets right now, at least in

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Speaker 1: equity markets, and a lot of people are saying traders

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Speaker 1: are just looking past the second quarter and even the

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Speaker 1: third quarter and looking into the fourth quarter when we

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Speaker 1: should get a resurgence in economic activity. I'm wondering how

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Speaker 1: much that's your base case that we're not going to

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Speaker 1: get necessarily a second wave of the coronavirus and we'll

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Speaker 1: get meaningful pickups in growth heading towards September, November, December. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a great question question Lisa and I

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Speaker 1: to see a disconnect between some fairly bleak or rather

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Speaker 1: historically bleak economic numbers coming down the line UM and

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Speaker 1: the and what's going on in the equity market UM.

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Speaker 1: So our base case is the eytbreak comes under control

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Speaker 1: in the second quarter, and we see a reasonably rapid

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Speaker 1: pick up in the third quarter as lockdown's ease. Now

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Speaker 1: that's our base case, but it comes with some unusually

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Speaker 1: large caveats UM. The first one is what happens to

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Speaker 1: the virus. Well, it seems like from what happened in China,

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Speaker 1: a lockdown can be successful in essentially permanently bringing it

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Speaker 1: under control. But we don't know if that can be

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Speaker 1: replicated around the world, and we don't even really know

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Speaker 1: if it will stick in China, So it's entirely possible

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Speaker 1: we could see cases popping back up again in the

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Speaker 1: third and fourth quarter, a lockdown coming back in in

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Speaker 1: the final weeks and months of the year, and even

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Speaker 1: our four percent contraction calls for global GDP could turn

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Speaker 1: out to be too pessimist, too optimistice, Sorry, carry on,

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Speaker 1: pool go ahead, Sorry, I was The second big risk

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Speaker 1: is well, we think that the underlying economy is actually okay,

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Speaker 1: and so once you get rid of the virus and

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Speaker 1: you get rid of the lockdown, people can come back

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Speaker 1: to work and growth comes back pretty quickly. That's actually

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Speaker 1: also an optimistic assumption. We're seeing twenty six million people

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Speaker 1: losing their jobs in the United States, similar impact across

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Speaker 1: other big economies, businesses going bankrupt. It's possible that this

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Speaker 1: is going to be a scarring recession and high unemployment.

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Speaker 1: Business bankruptcies, perhaps even some bank failures are going to

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Speaker 1: mean that the recovery in the third and fourth quarter

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Speaker 1: intoe just isn't that robust. So time just quickly. How

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Speaker 1: bad do you think this unemployment rate is going to be?

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Speaker 1: And then I guess how permanent? I guess you were

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Speaker 1: kind of touching on that a little bit. How permanent

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Speaker 1: do you feel like it will be? Are we at

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Speaker 1: a higher level of just annallywing unemployment going forward? So

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Speaker 1: we think that the unemployment rate in the second quarter

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Speaker 1: is going to push close to um that's an extraordinarily

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Speaker 1: high level. Back in the Great Financial Crisis, it got

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Speaker 1: to so we're looking at a really really high level

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Speaker 1: of unemployment. The question for the longer term is, well,

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Speaker 1: have businesses just said, Okay, take a break, we'll call

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Speaker 1: you in three months, and when the lockdown is over,

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Speaker 1: people can basically get back to work and its business

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Speaker 1: as usual. Or are we looking at a more damaging

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Speaker 1: break in the labor market if we see people being

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Speaker 1: furloughed and then those furloughs turning into permanent unemployment, and

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Speaker 1: that's going to be a much more serious drag on output,

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Speaker 1: and we'd be looking at a creeping recovery in the

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Speaker 1: second half and into Tom more like thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for being with us, Tom, or like chief economists

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Speaker 1: for a Bloomberg Economics joining us from Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: In five weeks, the US labor market erased what took

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Speaker 1: more than a decade to build more than twenty six

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Speaker 1: million jobs lost as the coronavirus rereaked havoc across the

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Speaker 1: United States. We're expecting millions more in the filing initial

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Speaker 1: jobless filings come Thursday. A question about how quickly these

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Speaker 1: jobs will return and what businesses could and should and

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Speaker 1: would be doing to bring these people back online as

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Speaker 1: we get signs that the virus is subsiding. James Sinclair

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Speaker 1: on the front lines of all of this chief executive

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Speaker 1: officer of Enterprise Alumni based in Los Angeles. James, you

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Speaker 1: talk with employers, how much are they planning for the reset,

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Speaker 1: the post coronavirus re jiggering of the economy as they

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Speaker 1: try to get a greater proportion of their employees back online.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, Lisa, Thanks for having me. You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: So we work with some of the largest companies in

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Speaker 1: the world, and we're seeing this massive influx of new

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Speaker 1: customers across retail and tourism, travel, and so we do

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Speaker 1: have a good pulse of what's next and what's needed

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Speaker 1: to restart, and we are seeing a lot of organizations

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Speaker 1: leveraging Enterprise Alumni to start their rehiring plan. This concept

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Speaker 1: of who's available um not only people who used to

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Speaker 1: work for them just before the crisis, but also historically

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Speaker 1: and their ability to be able to ramp up very

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Speaker 1: quickly by using alumni or former employees who used to

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Speaker 1: work for the organization. So, James spaced upon kind of

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Speaker 1: what you're hearing some of the companies that you talked to.

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Speaker 1: How quickly do you think this restart will occur, will

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Speaker 1: be a gradual type of thing, or are these companies

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Speaker 1: chomping at the bit. So I think there are two conversations.

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Speaker 1: Number one, it's how do we manage the community today?

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Speaker 1: All of these people that we followed, all these people

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Speaker 1: that we need to communicate with and place into a

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Speaker 1: central resource to have that conversation. But I think people

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Speaker 1: are chomping at a bit is almost an understatement. I

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Speaker 1: think we're all chumping at a bit. And the question

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Speaker 1: is what does that recovery look like and how are

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Speaker 1: they going to potentially make up for lost time? But

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Speaker 1: how are they going to start really quickly? Because they

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Speaker 1: can't afford a three to four week productivity cycle. They

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Speaker 1: need people that are going to hit the ground running. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so to that to a lot of customers we're

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Speaker 1: speaking to, that tends to be the biggest priority now

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Speaker 1: that when we get the go ahead or the green light,

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Speaker 1: how can we scale up very very rapidly. James, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the jobs market in the United States as

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Speaker 1: though we're a modelist, and obviously so not. In different

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Speaker 1: industries have gotten hit harder than others. I know that

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Speaker 1: your company makes software that are used that's used by

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Speaker 1: a variety of different companies and industries. NESTLYE p and G.

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Speaker 1: Marriat HSBC. I'm wondering how specific will the restart be

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Speaker 1: two companies that are better positioned to weather this. In

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Speaker 1: other words, could we see everyone get back online yet

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Speaker 1: the hotels remain with furload employees for a lot longer.

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Speaker 1: I think from what we're seeing from the staffing plans

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Speaker 1: that organizations are leveraging in our in our application is

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Speaker 1: that it is going to be gradual, that even though

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Speaker 1: there's going to be a green light and a mass

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Speaker 1: re higher, it is going to be industry specific. You

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Speaker 1: take the airlines overnight, They're not suddenly going to have

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Speaker 1: fil rates on their planes, same as occupantcy for hotel,

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Speaker 1: same as restaurants. Just because the market is reopening, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean everyone's going to feel comfortable suddenly going to

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Speaker 1: a sports game, going to a conference, or jumping on

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Speaker 1: a plane. So so they are expecting that when they

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Speaker 1: do reopen, they're going to reopen as smaller organizations. So jameson,

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Speaker 1: how about some small business owners We've seen, you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of pain there on Main Street USA. Any

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Speaker 1: sense of how they are trying to manage to do this,

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Speaker 1: how they plan on reopening once they do get that

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Speaker 1: green light. I think the smaller and medium sized businesses

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Speaker 1: across the US, this is really going to be leveraging

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Speaker 1: their community, leveraging all the goodwill they've built over the

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Speaker 1: number of years. You know, we're hoping that as many

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Speaker 1: businesses as possible will survive post this, but I think

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Speaker 1: the recovery is going to be really again leveraging this community.

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Speaker 1: So again, whether you're a small business or a large

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Speaker 1: cust a large customer of ours, you're still thinking about

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Speaker 1: that network and all the people that used to work

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Speaker 1: for you that you've had a relationship with, because also

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Speaker 1: right now they become your brand advocates. We see a

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Speaker 1: lot of customers right now recognizing that the ad spend

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Speaker 1: is so small, So how can we leverage all of

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Speaker 1: our former employees to push our messaging, push our programming

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Speaker 1: and kind of give us the reach that we would

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Speaker 1: normally have to pay for. James how much goodwill, though,

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Speaker 1: has been lost for some of these employees who have

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Speaker 1: lost their jobs. So I think this becomes company to

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Speaker 1: company where this is an opportunity to really see the

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Speaker 1: type of organization for what they are, their culture and

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Speaker 1: their values. We have one retail company that has whisked

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Speaker 1: up a platform for Enterprise Alumni for all of their

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Speaker 1: former employees, for all of those furloughed, and one of

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Speaker 1: the things they're doing is every week the CEO is

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Speaker 1: doing a town hall talking to them about what's happening

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Speaker 1: in the market, what they can expect, how they might

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Speaker 1: up skill. We have another customer in tourism who is

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Speaker 1: offering all of their furloughed employees access to an MBA program,

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Speaker 1: access to learning, access to skills. So I think you're

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of companies using this opportunity to a

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Speaker 1: be great employers and ensure they're offering those furloughed employees

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Speaker 1: access to resources to help them up skill and be

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Speaker 1: better post crisis, but also be great communicators because none

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Speaker 1: of us really you know, you know what that date

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Speaker 1: is for for rebound. Jameson Claire, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us. We appreciate you talking to us about

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Speaker 1: how when the governments and corporations reopen, how will they

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Speaker 1: staff themselves. James Sinclair, CEO of Enterprise Alumni based in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles, So at least that's gonna be very interesting.

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Speaker 1: I'm really focused on kind of these small and midsized

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Speaker 1: businesses you know, yeah, yeah, I hope that they can

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Speaker 1: uh survive this, and you hope some of those fiscal

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Speaker 1: stimulus actually gets to them, uh to help them bridge

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Speaker 1: the gap and then uh, you know, when they do

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Speaker 1: get the green light, you know how many of them

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Speaker 1: will be able to come back. That's gonna be really key.

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Speaker 1: It's such a complicated process, I gotta say. And to

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Speaker 1: sort of predict how many employees you may need, knowing

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Speaker 1: that the people you don't hire won't be able to

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Speaker 1: go out and spend and accelerate the economy bends your mind. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it really does. It really does. And that we've never

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Speaker 1: had this economy obviously has never had to do anything

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Speaker 1: like this, I would argue, even with the Great Depression.

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Speaker 1: So we'll have to see how this plays out. But

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Speaker 1: key is going to be fiscal stimulus, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get some more is on that this week. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg pen L podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or

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Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Paul Sweeney, I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa Abram Woyds I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Lisa Abram woits one before the podcast, you

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Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio