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Speaker 1: On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef invest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hey, Caitlin, Yes, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: fasten your seatbelt. It's gonna be a bumpy podcast. Honey.

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Speaker 1: Now that's the level of writing that gets you nominated

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Speaker 1: for an oscar. Wow. I wasn't expecting that, Jamie. You

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Speaker 1: didn't see the twist coming, did you? You thought I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say ride. I know it didn't night, No night.

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Speaker 1: You thought I was gonna say night. Oh, it is

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Speaker 1: a bumpy night because she's she's just saying like I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get so fucked up and ruin everyone's night.

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Speaker 1: And she's right. I've never heard someone promise that in

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Speaker 1: advance and quite the same like it's it's oh, it's gorgeous, iconic.

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Speaker 1: She's an icon. So welcome to the beck Dodcast. This

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Speaker 1: is our movie podcast, where we in a lies the

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Speaker 1: representation of women in movies, using the Bechtel test as

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Speaker 1: a jumping off point. And that, of course, is a

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Speaker 1: media metric created by cartoonist Ellison Bechtel sometimes called the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Wallace test, and it requires that two female identifying

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Speaker 1: characters who have names they have to speak to each other,

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Speaker 1: and that conversation has to be about something other than

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Speaker 1: a man. For instance, ruining each other's lives is a

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Speaker 1: topic that passes handily. I'm so excited to be covering

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Speaker 1: this movie today. We do not very frequently cover movies

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Speaker 1: of this era, but it is a pretty common request

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Speaker 1: as far as older movies go. It's one of my faves.

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Speaker 1: I'm we're covering All About Eve today. We are, and

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Speaker 1: we have a special guest where again we're still in

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Speaker 1: the quarantine, but we're all videoing in from different locations.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember life before this anymore. Who does um?

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Speaker 1: But we're very excited for our guest today. She is

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Speaker 1: an amazing comedian and director. It's Sara June. Hello, Wow,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. Oh, it's our pleasure.

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Speaker 1: It is tough to be on zoom, but thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for continuing to do this podcast. Oh you know,

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Speaker 1: what else are we going to do right now? What

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Speaker 1: is your history in relationship with the movie All About Eve?

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Speaker 1: I probably first watched All About Eve when I was

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Speaker 1: in high school and I was in this phase where

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Speaker 1: I found out you could get DVDs from the library, um,

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Speaker 1: and my library had a great, great DVD selection. So

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Speaker 1: I watched a lot of movies that were really good

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Speaker 1: that I did not understand because I was a child.

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Speaker 1: And then I watched some movies that were really good

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Speaker 1: that I did understand even though I was a child.

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Speaker 1: And one of those movies it was all about Eve. Baby,

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Speaker 1: this is like a good movie to first see when

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Speaker 1: you're a teenager. I feel like it hits like and

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Speaker 1: it probably I would guess like hits different at different

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Speaker 1: stages of life too. So it also informed like everything

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Speaker 1: I thought I knew about the theater. I was like,

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Speaker 1: the theater is crazy, sexy, dangerous, British, right, and they

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Speaker 1: hate television. I like, I I think that, like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're always supposed to think that Eve is like pure evil.

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Speaker 1: But my first viewing of this, I do remember being like,

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Speaker 1: even he's got a good head on her shoulders, she's

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like I I always love Margo to

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Speaker 1: death forever, but I didn't have as much um empathy

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Speaker 1: for her the first time as I do ten years on.

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Speaker 1: I am now closer to Margot's age than Eve's age,

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Speaker 1: so I'm like Eve, that slimy little rat. I'm Margot

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Speaker 1: is single white female. There it's it's yeah, yeah. This

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Speaker 1: movie came out both before Single White Female and before

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Speaker 1: Mean Girls, So if you need modern references, those are them.

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Speaker 1: It and the Favorite. I think the Favorite is like

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Speaker 1: I have I have some One of the writers of

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Speaker 1: The Favorite was like, yeah, this is like a lot.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of All about even then. I remember

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Speaker 1: I read that interview where they were like, it's like

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Speaker 1: if all about Eve was um, and then there was.

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Speaker 1: It was also based on like a sorry I'm getting

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Speaker 1: off topic, but it was also based on an actual

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Speaker 1: historical event, which was the Queen making this random made

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Speaker 1: attendant of hers her the purser, just like out of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: Pretty cool, pretty cool stuff. You love to hear it,

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Speaker 1: love to hear it, all right. So yeah, that's my

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Speaker 1: history with All About Nice Jamie, what's your history. I

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Speaker 1: love this movie a lot. I think I saw it.

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Speaker 1: I think I probably This probably is a movie I

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Speaker 1: saw like my freshman year in college. This seems like

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Speaker 1: around the correct time to have seen this movie. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's a guest. But I've seen this movie many times now.

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Speaker 1: It's weird. I haven't like thought about it from a

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Speaker 1: I mean it's weird. It's like, you can't think about

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Speaker 1: this movie from a feminist standpoint, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: great because it's like mostly women interacting with each other,

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Speaker 1: so you cannot. But this was my first time watching

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Speaker 1: it with like a Bechtel whatever helmet. Is it a

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Speaker 1: helmet that we wear? Um, it's with that I mean

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Speaker 1: in the in the quarantine, Yes, but yeah, it's one

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Speaker 1: of It's one of my favorite, um, I think, probably

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies ever, but definitely one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite older movies. I love. I was like when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid, I was like a TCM head

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Speaker 1: and Judy Garland and Bettie Davis were like my gals.

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Speaker 1: I love Betty Davis and her performance and this is

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Speaker 1: fucking ink. I mean, everyone's performance in this is great.

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Speaker 1: I love this movie. It's so weird because they were like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the fact that you know someone is so powerful that

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Speaker 1: they can just be cruel and awful to everyone is

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Speaker 1: not a good thing. But I do like it when

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Speaker 1: it's Bettie Davis doing it. When Betty Davis is cruel

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Speaker 1: and terrible to everyone she's ever met. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I think it's cool. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie?

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Speaker 1: I too saw it, probably run freshman year when I

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Speaker 1: was in you know, I was a starry eyed film student,

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Speaker 1: much like Eve Harrington, you know, trying to just consume

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Speaker 1: as much cinema as I could. And what that meant

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Speaker 1: for me was I would watch like three DVDs that

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Speaker 1: I borrowed from the library a day and absorb none

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Speaker 1: of literally okay, okay, you're not even literally updated. Eve,

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Speaker 1: like two thousands are Eve would be watching DVDs. She

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Speaker 1: would be like, I'm going to figure this out, right, right, right.

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Speaker 1: So this is one of those movies that I had

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Speaker 1: on in the background and didn't apparently retain anything about it,

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Speaker 1: which is a shame because it's a really good movie

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Speaker 1: and there's lots to talk about it. I am very

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Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. The dialogue in this movie

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Speaker 1: is so smart and sharp and tight and clever and

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Speaker 1: so well written. It's incredible. Manko It's yeah, he got

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Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, there's there's Well, we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: the short comings of the story at lark, but like

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Speaker 1: the fucking script is it's so good. It's like every

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Speaker 1: character is so distinct, even like smaller characters that normally

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Speaker 1: I feel like movies of any era would just kind

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Speaker 1: of make a throw away. Like even Marilyn Monrose character

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Speaker 1: has like a small arc and she says funny stuff

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Speaker 1: and like it's just so good. I love it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's dive into the recap. The movie starts with a

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Speaker 1: young woman named Eve Harrington. That's and Baxter. She is

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Speaker 1: a big fan of the theata and an even bigger

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Speaker 1: fan of an actress named Margot Channing. And that is

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Speaker 1: our queen Betty Davis, who is you know, a star

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Speaker 1: of the stage. And one night Karen Richards that's a

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Speaker 1: friend of Margot's. They are friends because her husband, her husband,

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Speaker 1: um Lloyd Richards, is the playwright of the production that

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Speaker 1: Margot is currently starring in. But this woman, Karen, sees

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Speaker 1: Eve outside of the theater and had noticed her. They're

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Speaker 1: like waiting night after night, so she decides to invite

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Speaker 1: her in and introduce her to Margot, right, which is like, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the first act of kindness from a woman

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Speaker 1: to a woman in the movie, And she'll live to

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Speaker 1: regret it. I love that's like she's like, oh, let

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Speaker 1: me do something nice, and then the movie is like,

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Speaker 1: the biggest mistake you ruin everyone's lives. Yeah, let this

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Speaker 1: be a lesson. Women shouldn't be nice to each other,

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Speaker 1: never mix with the commoners. Right that too. It's a

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Speaker 1: classes in trench coach shall enter, so they invite her in.

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Speaker 1: They're all chatting and Eve tells them her story about

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Speaker 1: how she came to love the theater, about how she

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Speaker 1: had this husband who died in the war, and how

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Speaker 1: she started following Margot's career, and Margot is very smitten

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Speaker 1: by all of this and by Eve, and she has

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Speaker 1: Eve move into her house and start working for her

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Speaker 1: as an assistant more or less, I will say, a

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Speaker 1: second assistant. She already has an assistant, right Bertie, Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, Bertie is like the feminist icon of icon

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Speaker 1: Bertie coon in right, because it isn't like Bertie like

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Speaker 1: the main she's her main gal. And then Eve is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like she's doing it. Doesn't even like Eve is doing

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Speaker 1: more than she's asked. She's Eve is acting the way

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Speaker 1: we're told as eighteen year old interns that you should

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Speaker 1: ask like, they're like, invent tasks for yourself, make yourself

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Speaker 1: seem useful even if you're not doing shit, And that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what she's doing A million percent, yes, And

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Speaker 1: this is kind of the start of her beginning to

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Speaker 1: cross some boundaries in her relationship it with Margot. And

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Speaker 1: then after that we see Eve maybe kind of flirting

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Speaker 1: with Margot's boyfriend, Bill Sampson, who Betty Davis was having

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Speaker 1: an affair with on set and would marry and was

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Speaker 1: married to for ten years. Excuse me, Yeah, they got

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Speaker 1: they like dumped their spouses at the time for each

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Speaker 1: other and he was her last husband. I know. They

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Speaker 1: have great chemistry too. It's like that that relationship is

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Speaker 1: I mean stuff have isn't but but it's like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they got they got chemistry, you know what they do.

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Speaker 1: He daddies her from the very first scene he does. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he dams her so hard and so immediately she's like,

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Speaker 1: what do you do and he's like, let me tell

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Speaker 1: you about the theater, kid like, and she just cowers.

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Speaker 1: And that's after he has come into the room and

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Speaker 1: called Margo like a trash heap or something like that.

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Speaker 1: He's like, you look like shit, I have a flight

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Speaker 1: in four or five minutes. It's like peak nineteen fifties writing.

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Speaker 1: It's like peak black and white movie where they're like,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing woman? You look like garbage and

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Speaker 1: she's like, oh, garbage, pooh pooh. And then and then

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Speaker 1: she just does what he says. But but yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then he like ignores Eve a couple different times. I mean,

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Speaker 1: these are like as close you can as you can

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Speaker 1: get to being like, oh, that sucks for it. But like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Eve is smart and honestly, when I

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Speaker 1: saw that scene this time, I had never thought about

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Speaker 1: this dynamic before. But the fact that he comes in

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Speaker 1: immediately talks to Margo and only Margo, even though he's like,

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Speaker 1: you look like should I have a flight? Let's go,

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Speaker 1: and like sees the other girl, barely says hi to

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Speaker 1: her and then fully only pays attention to Margo. I

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Speaker 1: think is a smart guy who's in a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a narcissist. That's a guy who's like, if I say

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Speaker 1: hi to this other woman in the room, she will

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Speaker 1: have my head. Yeah, I mean there I wonder, I wonder. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like their relationship is just like bizarre all around, but

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Speaker 1: there's like watching that scene with Eve this I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen this movie and maybe two years or so, but

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Speaker 1: watching that scene, it's like, I feel like everyone has

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Speaker 1: ben Eve in that situation to where just like someone

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Speaker 1: more powerful than you walks into a room and it's like,

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Speaker 1: who is this. Okay, great, anyways the other most powerful

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Speaker 1: person in the room. I'm going to be mean to

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Speaker 1: you and then leave and you're like oh yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to you, but also kind of performing for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well, and then Margot's doing that too, to

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Speaker 1: the point where Bertie has to be like this is

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Speaker 1: making me physically ill. I'm leading I have to go

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Speaker 1: into the bedroom. That's what I love because they're all

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Speaker 1: doing this like you there, I know you that, And

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Speaker 1: then she's just like, oh but brother, she's just doing

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Speaker 1: like yeah, she's doing like a like old Timey Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: like character actor bit in the middle of this Transatlantic

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Speaker 1: accent scene, and you're just like, yeah, well, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: this is what the world like, sparkling with sparkling wit.

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Speaker 1: I'm like this Sparkling's amazing. And then Bertie is like

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Speaker 1: want a load up bull crap and like she's right,

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Speaker 1: She's the best. Bertie is amazing. She is and she

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Speaker 1: I wish that she was like written out after whatever

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of act too, But what can you do?

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Speaker 1: When I was researching the production of this movie, they

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Speaker 1: said that they had to cut like fifty pages from

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Speaker 1: the script. So there was some Birdie that hit the

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Speaker 1: cutting room floor. And originally she was supposed to Um,

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Speaker 1: she was going to be instead of that girl. Wasn't

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Speaker 1: like Phoebe. At the end, it's Birdie and she comes crown. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: So it's at this point in the story when Margot

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Speaker 1: starts to get increasingly more and more annoyed with Eve

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Speaker 1: because of all the boundaries she is crossing methodically. It's

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Speaker 1: she's a master or manipulator. But we don't know that

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Speaker 1: yet quite as as an audience. We're only starting to

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Speaker 1: see hints of it. We start on the side of

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Speaker 1: like everyone's calling Margot paranoid, and we're like, Margot is paranoid, right,

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Speaker 1: but the tide will turn. Um. So, one night, right

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Speaker 1: before a homecoming slash birthday party um that is being

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Speaker 1: thrown for Bill, Margot and Bill have this big fight

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Speaker 1: about Eve because Margot is insecure about her age and

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Speaker 1: she's worried that um Eve, who is considerably younger than Margot,

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Speaker 1: will replace Margot. And then cut to the party, we

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Speaker 1: get that the famous line the fest in your seatbelts,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a bumpy night, and we're like,

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Speaker 1: we're like, and then it is it. Yeah, she delivers

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Speaker 1: on the promise. Oh yes, she gets wasted. My girl

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Speaker 1: gets shit fish ship face. And then she still gives

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Speaker 1: the most articulate, pithy put downs of the entire Like

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Speaker 1: what everyone wishes they sounded like when they're blackout drunk

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Speaker 1: is how she's That's how everyone feels like they are

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Speaker 1: talking when they're bega mean drunk, but they're actually like

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Speaker 1: throwing up. Do not say this to me. I am

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Speaker 1: as wispy tinous. I'm like, I think I sound like

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Speaker 1: this after five hundred white cloths, and I'm just like

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Speaker 1: really cool but also like I don't care, but also

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Speaker 1: leave me alone. I have to ask the DJ to

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Speaker 1: play the same song five times in a row. I

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Speaker 1: love the like and and the way that and this

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Speaker 1: is also like the costume designs in this movie are

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Speaker 1: edith head, so they're fucking amazing, and the way that

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Speaker 1: they like the old Hollywood wood way to indicate that

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Speaker 1: a woman is drunk is just like slide her sleeve

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Speaker 1: off her shoulder and tussle her hair, and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's wasted, and like holding up holding up very full

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Speaker 1: Martini glass perfectly and never spilling it while being like

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Speaker 1: knowing and like you know, slurring your retorts. She's a star.

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Speaker 1: She's a star, right. And then Eve weasels her way

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Speaker 1: into being Mark goes understudy, unbeknownst to Margot, And then

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Speaker 1: there's this audition that happens with Marilyn Monroe's character, a

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Speaker 1: young actress named Ms Caswell. Eve shows up instead and

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Speaker 1: reads opposite her. In this audition, it turns out that

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Speaker 1: Eve is an amazing actor who blows everybody away, including

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Speaker 1: this theater critic named Addison DeWitt, which is another perfect

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Speaker 1: old timey theater critic name. Right. Never has there actually

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Speaker 1: been a person with a name like this. It's great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: his names you get it, You get what he does,

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Speaker 1: You get what he's like. His name is DeWitt, do

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Speaker 1: you guys get it? Maco Wit is like Maco with

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Speaker 1: is like a stark and style jerking himself off, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, ah, there it is de wit so Eve

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Speaker 1: being awesome at acting makes Margo very jealous, and she

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Speaker 1: shows up at the theater after this audition and she

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Speaker 1: has this outburst. You know, Lloyd is like, you're a

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Speaker 1: horrible actress. And then Bill literally compares, he like objectifies

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Speaker 1: her to the point where he's like, you're a piano Look. Okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: I will say this. He doesn't say you're a horrible actress.

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Speaker 1: He says something almost worse, which is, you're too old

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Speaker 1: to play the part that I wrote and that you've

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Speaker 1: been playing for like at this point weeks months now,

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Speaker 1: you know, just to say, like it's not that you're bad,

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Speaker 1: you're just not young enough. I think I hate Lloyd

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Speaker 1: the most out of everyone in this movie because Lloyd

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Speaker 1: is just he's so infuriating to me. I feel like

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Speaker 1: he kind of gets off like like he's made to

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Speaker 1: so egotistical. Yeah, like I feel like this. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: like men in this movie are like bad, but it's

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Speaker 1: more it's written more that they're clueless rather than they

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Speaker 1: are making the rules. But like Lloyd could write apart

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Speaker 1: for Margot, that's her age. He just won't do it.

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Speaker 1: He's acting like my hands are tied. I can only

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Speaker 1: write about twenty year olds, and you're like, you have

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Speaker 1: the power to not do that. I hate Lloyd so much. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Also like, if you know, if you are lucky enough

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Speaker 1: to know what kind of an actor you're going to

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Speaker 1: be working with, then you should write a part for

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Speaker 1: that actor. You know, right, why would you not? Whatever?

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Speaker 1: I hate Lloyd, Karen, Karen Defense Force. Karen can do better,

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Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, so he sucks. And then Bill is

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Speaker 1: talking to Margot and he's like, you know, you're being paranoid.

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Speaker 1: I love you, but this is the last straw. I

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Speaker 1: gotta say goodbye, and then he leaves her, which I

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Speaker 1: think is healthy. I do think he's kind of like acting.

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Speaker 1: I like Bill some of the time. A lot of

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Speaker 1: the time he does, guess light her quite a bit,

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Speaker 1: or at least he does calls her paranoid without um

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Speaker 1: ever really truly listening to her and her feelings. So

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Speaker 1: I think that Bill is like cut too much slack.

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Speaker 1: But but I do agree Sara that him getting out

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Speaker 1: of their relationship when it becomes that volatile. I don't

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Speaker 1: really fault him for it, and neither does Margo. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's like, oh, yeah, that's a good boundary

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Speaker 1: to have, you know, like they're not married, you know,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, I I agree that he's like he

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Speaker 1: calls her paranoid, which is like not okay, But at

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Speaker 1: that point, like when somebody is like lying to you

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Speaker 1: as much as Margot does and refusing to listen to

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Speaker 1: you as much as you're refusing to listen to them,

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Speaker 1: it's like, all right, I'm out. I don't know, it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a Well, we'll talk about Bill because I have

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Speaker 1: like mixed feelings towards him, and I feel like maybe

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Speaker 1: I cut him too much slack because I really liked

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Speaker 1: the actor and the fact that he and Betty Davis

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Speaker 1: got married. Oh well, we'll get there. Also, he like

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Speaker 1: violently throws Margo down on a bed, which is obviously

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Speaker 1: not okay, but like pretty typical for an old Hollywood

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Speaker 1: film to see a man being violent towards women, Like

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Speaker 1: we also see Addison slap Eve in the face, you know,

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Speaker 1: which is very yikes. But anyway, um, so we're at

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Speaker 1: the point where you know, Margot's boyfriend has left, her

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Speaker 1: friends are upset with her, and then a short time later,

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Speaker 1: when Margot is returning home from a weekend getaway with

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Speaker 1: Karen and Lloyd. Some car trouble causes her to miss

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Speaker 1: her show that night, and it's implied that Karen drained

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Speaker 1: the gas out of the tank of the car on

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Speaker 1: purpose so that Margot would miss the show to help E. So,

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Speaker 1: with Margot being gone, Eve, her understudy, steps in, performs

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Speaker 1: the part and dazzles the crowd. And wouldn't you know it,

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Speaker 1: a bunch of theater critics just happened to be at

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Speaker 1: the show that night, and they're also all very impressed

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Speaker 1: with Eve, including Addison do Wit. Yes. So, now that

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Speaker 1: Eve is making her way into the spotlight, she tries

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Speaker 1: to seduce Bill Sampson, but he's like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I'm still in love with Margot, and then he goes

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Speaker 1: back to Margot. Karen has also forgiven Margot and feels

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Speaker 1: super guilty about what she did to make her miss

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Speaker 1: the performance. And then Addison DeWitt has written this review

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Speaker 1: about how awesome Eve was in the play how awful

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Speaker 1: Margot is, And in this review, Eve talks about how

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Speaker 1: pathetic it is for older actresses to play parts for

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Speaker 1: younger women and how you know older women are bitter

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Speaker 1: and they don't want to support younger actresses. Then everyone's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I guess maybe Margot wasn't being paranoid right right, except

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Speaker 1: Lloyd is still being a piece of ship because he's

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Speaker 1: he defends Eve. I hate Lloyd. What's just horny? I

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Speaker 1: hate him? Lloyd is horny and I also hate him.

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Speaker 1: So Lloyd is defending Eve and he's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: Eve claims that Addison put those words in her mouth.

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Speaker 1: And then he's like, and what if Eve is in

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Speaker 1: my new play performing the lead role of Cora and

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Speaker 1: then his wife. His wife Karen is like, listen, Eve

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Speaker 1: is a rat scumbag and you will not cast her

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Speaker 1: in your play. Yeah. Then that night, when Margot, Bill, Karen,

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Speaker 1: and Lloyd are out drinking some wine at a like

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Speaker 1: rich people establishment, Eve is also there a club. The

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Speaker 1: club in the club was it? What is it? Betty

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Speaker 1: Davis is like, where the elite come to meet? You're like, yeah, good, sure, whatever,

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Speaker 1: bit you are drunk again. Eve is also there and

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Speaker 1: she sends over a note asking Karen to meet her

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Speaker 1: in the ladies room, and she does very titanic make

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Speaker 1: it count meet me by the clock, and then they

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Speaker 1: actually go and have a really cool party below deck. No, Um,

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Speaker 1: what happens instead is that Eve and Karen chat and

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Speaker 1: Eve starts out by apologizing, but then her tone shifts

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Speaker 1: and then she starts blackmailing Karen because and Baxter is

390
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Speaker 1: so good in that. Yeah. She when she puts her

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Speaker 1: cards on the table every time, it's just like because

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Speaker 1: she knows that Karen has something to do with Margot

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Speaker 1: missing the show that night. And it turns out all

394
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Speaker 1: Eve once from Karen is for her to tell her husband,

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Speaker 1: her husband, Lloyd, to cast Eve in his new play.

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Speaker 1: And that apparently happens because we cut to Lloyd and

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Speaker 1: Eve rehearsing for the play bill is directing it right,

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Speaker 1: And then it seems like Eve is trying to get

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Speaker 1: close to Lloyd and she's like, hey, Addison, did you

400
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Speaker 1: know that Lloyd is going to leave Karen and that

401
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Speaker 1: he and I are going to get married? And Addison's like, oh,

402
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: actually no, that's not going to happen. You're not going

403
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: to marry him because you belong to me. I know

404
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: about your real past and others. It's so over dramatic

405
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: it shouldn't work, and yet it does right, Like it's

406
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: it's so much. So then he he blackmails her because

407
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 1: it turns out she's been lying about a bunch of stuff.

408
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Speaker 1: And then we cut to her accepting this award for

409
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Speaker 1: her acting, but like everyone hates her. Margot is there,

410
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Speaker 1: Karen is there. They're like this fucking asshole, and everyone

411
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Speaker 1: else in the room is a very old man who

412
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Speaker 1: is clapping heartily right, and they're just like, yeah, it's

413
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Speaker 1: so good. And then Eve wins the award and and

414
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Speaker 1: and Margot's mean to her one last time. Oh, and

415
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: he gives a spee each where she thanks Karen and

416
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Speaker 1: Lloyd and Margot and then they're just like a stony face.

417
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Speaker 1: I love it. And then Eve goes home and a

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Speaker 1: young woman who is obsessed with her, much like Eve

419
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Speaker 1: was obsessed with Margot at the beginning of the movie.

420
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Speaker 1: This young woman is in her house has like snuck

421
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Speaker 1: it broke into her house. And then she's like, oh

422
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: my gosh, Eve Harrington, I love you so much. You're

423
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: so awesome. And we're like, oh no, the cycle is

424
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: going to repeat itself. And I have so many thoughts

425
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: on the ending. So that's the story. Let's take a

426
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: quick break and then we will come right back to

427
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: discuss Can we start by talking about the ending? Is

428
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: that too Is that too much? Let's do it? Okay.

429
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: So this was the first time I had really given

430
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: some critical thought to the ending of the movie, because

431
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: I feel like greenplay wise, it's great because he brings

432
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: you all the way back to one and the quote

433
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: unquote villain of the movie is getting her come up,

434
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: and and it's like I never really questioned it before.

435
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: But my main criticism of this movie that I still

436
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: am gonna love forever and ever. But I think my

437
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: main criticism of it is that like that ending heavily

438
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: implies that, like the problem the whole time is eve

439
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: and it's it's ambitious women. Ambitious women are the problem,

440
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: and ambitious and women are like naturally inclined to be

441
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: catty towards one another and to be vicious towards one another.

442
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: And it's not like there this movie does not really

443
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: interrogate the system that they are put in, in the

444
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: positions they're put in, and the fact that they are

445
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: told they can't be useful after a certain age, and

446
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: the fact that there's only so many stars that can

447
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: exist that are women. So one does have to displace

448
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: another just because of the way it's been set up.

449
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: And so at the end, by having that other women

450
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: come for Eve and you're like, oh, he's gonna get

451
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: what's coming to her. It's like, but you know, for

452
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: for all the men of the story, I mean, I

453
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: think this is probably this is realistic for its time,

454
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: But for all the men of the story, things stay

455
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: status quo um and will for forever. Yeah, there's never

456
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: the implication that like Lloyd or Bill our rivals, right,

457
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: they're friends, they're like BFFs. Yeah, they're like great collaborators

458
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: and close friends. I mean, I guess the difference is

459
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: one is a writer and one is a director. But seriously,

460
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: it's it's still not I mean, and this is one

461
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 1: really great thing about the movie. We don't hear almost

462
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: anything about those guys and their careers outside of this. Yeah,

463
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: which is good because it's like who care, Like they're

464
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: they're not the interesting. I didn't even think of that. Like,

465
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: we know Bill goes to direct a movie, but we

466
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: don't know if the movie is good or anything. Yeah,

467
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: we don't know anything about that movie. Yeah, we don't

468
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: even know what it's about. It doesn't matter because Margot's

469
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: not in it, so it doesn't matter because she's the

470
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: center of the universe. It's very clear, I mean, and

471
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: it's like I don't even really want to knock the

472
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: writing too much for creating this reality, because it was

473
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: very reflective of the time, and still now it's like

474
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter how good the stuff they do is.

475
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: We don't actually know if Floyd is a good writer,

476
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: but like, the world is always going to make enough

477
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: space for them, so it doesn't even like they don't

478
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: even have to be good. The only male character I

479
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: want to know more about is Addison. I would watch

480
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: a fucking franchise about Addison DeWitt, just like Frasier. Yes

481
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: he really is. What if he was Frasier's No, he's

482
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: not Fraser's dad, that's Martin. I would buy him as

483
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: one of Frasier's cousins for sure. I can't believe I

484
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: just insulted Martin Crane like that. I'm so sorry, but yeah,

485
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: come on, but yeah, this was the first time I

486
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: ever thought of the ending as like, I mean, it

487
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: is like it it's just kind of it's the desis

488
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: statement of the movie of like this thing that's happening

489
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: with these women as cyclical, which might be true, but

490
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: it doesn't examine really why that is. I mean, I

491
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: want to describe the literal final shot, which is the

492
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: young woman Phoebe, the young woman who we are meant

493
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: to inter It is going to replace Eve wearing Eve's

494
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: cape and holding her award and looking at herself in

495
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: the mirror and like pretending that she's accepting the award,

496
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: and then it's her cape and her crown, and um,

497
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: Eve has this three way mirror so that you see

498
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: all these endless rows of Phoebe's accepting the award and bowing.

499
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful shot and you might as well just

500
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: write in text on the screen such is Woman, because

501
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: it's like, look at this endless literally endless, infinite cycle

502
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: of not only identical but disposable. Yeah, am I reading

503
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: too much into this? I think that that is what

504
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: the intention is. Probably it's I love this movie. Okay,

505
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: that's what I had to say. That's what I had

506
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: to say about the ending. I just have never thought

507
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,239
Speaker 1: of it from from that angle before. Yeah, it's it's

508
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: pretty funny because like she the girl, Phoebe is like, hey,

509
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: I'm president of the Eve Harrington fan club and Eve's

510
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: like yeah, okay, She's at no point she like how

511
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: did you get in here? But but it's it is

512
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: cool that, I mean, Eve gets so defensive right away

513
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: when that was her I mean a year ago. How

514
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: much time passes in this movie, It's unclear, it's less.

515
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: I think some of the voiceover. The voiceover is like, wow,

516
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: it was just last April or last October, like it's

517
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: it implies that it's only been like I think, yeah,

518
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: it's been like kind of a short amount of time.

519
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you got a handed to Eve. Um. Part

520
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: of me wanted to interpret the ending as kind of

521
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: like a cautionary tale of like this is what happens

522
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: if you're a woman who exploits and tramples on other women.

523
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: But you're right, Jamie, like, it's not fair that ambitious

524
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: women are shown as being like the villains because and

525
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about, but there's this theme

526
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: that only pops up every so often in the movie.

527
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: But with Margot, you have this powerful woman who has

528
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: a solid career. She is very successful, but every once

529
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: in a while she'll be like, well here's the thing. Though,

530
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: a woman is not complete without a man. Yeah, there's

531
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: a conversation towards the end when she and Bill have

532
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 1: gotten engaged and she's like, I'm going to be a

533
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: married woman and Lloyd's like, well, what does that have

534
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: to do with anything? And Margot says, you know what

535
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: it means, I've I'll finally have a life to live.

536
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: I don't have to play parts I'm too old for

537
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: just because I've got nothing to do with my nights.

538
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh my gosh, that's so bleak, Like

539
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: I know, it's like, is that is that what you

540
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: were doing? Right? It's so and it's like they're My

541
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: understanding is that that attitude was kind of reflective of

542
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: Betty Davis's feelings. She never had a desire to leave performing,

543
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 1: but it like she also historically in her life had

544
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: like would try to fill areas of her life through

545
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: marriages and stuff like that, and like there, I don't know,

546
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: I read a whole whole thing that was just like

547
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 1: drawing comparisons from Betty Davis's life to Margot. There's a

548
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: lot of one to one things. That part, Like that

549
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: gave me a little bit of pause too. I don't

550
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: know how to feel about it, because I do think

551
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: that it ends up being maybe a little bit too

552
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: far of like it's like a deeply heteronormative like, yeah,

553
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: a woman is not a woman without him. I mean,

554
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, we're like we're basically we're quoting the script

555
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: here where she goes, you're not a woman if you

556
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: don't have a husband. Essentially, Um, she says that you

557
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: you can be a lot of things, but you're not

558
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: a woman. So like, in one sense, she doesn't discount

559
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: her accomplishments, but she doesn't see them as being compatible

560
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: with her sex. And also and were you know, we

561
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: assume her gender. You know, she's she's she's like, until

562
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: you perform the heteronormativity of being a woman in a

563
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: relationship with a man, you're not a woman. You're just

564
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: like essentially a laborer, but like one without sex. You know,

565
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: she's she's masculine eyes but also de sexualized. Heavy. Yeah, no,

566
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: I totally very heavy, and and the the way that

567
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: I mean. And and it's also like she decides to

568
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: she's she's like full on Oprah and steadman. She's like,

569
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to marry you, like I love you,

570
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to marry you, which is a kind

571
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: of like radical idea up until like pretty recently, um,

572
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: and he couldn't handle it. And he ends up getting

573
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: his way with that, And that's never really interrogated that much,

574
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: and it's implied that her making that change of heart

575
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: improves her life a lot. Is her kind of you know,

576
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: conceding to his wishes. There is a little bit part

577
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: of me where I feel like and I don't I

578
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: don't want to give Manko it's more credit for thinking

579
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: than he's actually doing. But he's a really good right

580
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I've kind of viewed part of

581
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: that of like, Margot only has so many options in

582
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: her time, even though she's the most powerful, as powerful

583
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: as a woman could be in this time, she only

584
00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: has so many alternatives to being and actress. And it

585
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: doesn't even seem like she doesn't want to be an actress.

586
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: She just doesn't want to put put up with all

587
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: the bullshit that she's going to be subjected to as

588
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: she gets older. And so I there's a way I

589
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: can see it. I still don't like the way that

590
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: they go with it, but there's a way I can

591
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: see it where she's like Okay, well what's my alternative this? Okay,

592
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: then I'll throw myself into this and hopefully it will

593
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: end better for me, which is bleak. It's a really

594
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: shitty choice that she has to make, but you understand

595
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: why she makes the one she makes, right, because it's like,

596
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean, there's unfortunately there in there's no way that

597
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: her acting career was going to get easier as she

598
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: gets older. You mean yeah, yeah, like I mean Eve

599
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: or no Eve. And that was true for Betty Davis,

600
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: like I mean right, Because so this movie is largely

601
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: about a woman who is very insecure about aging, who

602
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: worries that she will be replaced by a younger woman,

603
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: both in her romantic life and her professional life. Then

604
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: her fear are actualized when a younger woman shows up,

605
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: exploits those insecurities and then like weasels her way in

606
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: and tries to replace her, and then you know the

607
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: various consequences of that. So it's another movie that focuses

608
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: on an antagonistic relationship between two women who are in

609
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: competition with each other. I do think that this, especially

610
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: for the time this came out in I think the

611
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: movie does a fairly decent job of exploring like why

612
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: women be in competition with each other because of the

613
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: through line of like Margot's insecurity about aging. But I

614
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: also agree Jamie, you know you suggested that the movie

615
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: doesn't really go so far as to say, well, why

616
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: would a woman be insecure about aging? Well, because like

617
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: men run society and men don't deem women getting older

618
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,240
Speaker 1: is something that's socially acceptable. She's like, why doesn't Lloyd

619
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: write her apart? Like, why doesn't Lloyd write her apart?

620
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 1: It would be why doesn't Lloyd just fucking write her apart?

621
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: That would take Eve out of the equation entirely. They're like, oh, well,

622
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: this is an insurmountable problem that Bettie Davis has to

623
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: look twenty. Yeah, She's like, I have to say this though.

624
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: Upon this most recent reviewing, I was really really struck

625
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 1: by how good Eve is at doing what she wants

626
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: to do, because, like the opening scenes where they meet her,

627
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like basically one of the first

628
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: scenes where Karen meets her outside the theater takes you know,

629
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 1: says hey, you know, I've seen you outside the theater

630
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 1: every night, and she's like, yeah, you know, I watched

631
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: the play every night. And then I stand outside the

632
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: dressing room so I can maybe see Margot go in

633
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: and out, and it's so pathetic and it's fucking raining,

634
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: and it's she's all wet, and Karen is like, oh

635
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: my god. And then she gets to come inside and

636
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: meet Margot, and Margot mainly doesn't pay attention to her

637
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: for a while. And then when she finally and Eve

638
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: doesn't say anything. She's invisible. She's just like a fly

639
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: on the wall. And then finally, when there's like a

640
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: time where everybody's been introduced to Eve, she gives this

641
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: big fucking monologue that we later find out is full

642
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: of lies about her upbringing, and Bertie calls it out

643
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 1: right away. Bertie's like, wow, what is that like character

644
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: actor line she gives. It's like everything but the kitchens,

645
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: the Bloodhounds, everything but the Bloodhounds. Snippet. Yeah, it was great.

646
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: But the thing that she does in these early scenes

647
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: that I hadn't really noticed up until now how perfectly

648
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: she does it, is she targets what she knows about

649
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: those people and their insecurities, and she gives it to them.

650
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: So like Margot is insecure about her own power, and

651
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: so Eve defers to her. She's like, you're the queen.

652
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with you. I'll do anything you say, run

653
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: me over with a car. And Margot was like, I

654
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: kind of like this girl because that's like who Margot is.

655
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: She wants somebody who's like Margot is the most important

656
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: person in the universe. So like Eve fucking works to

657
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: get everybody on her side before she really starts sucking

658
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: up their lives, and like Bill, you know, she's like, hey, uh,

659
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: let me ask you a question about theater. He jumps

660
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: down her throat. She immediately is like, that's okay, I

661
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: don't mind. I like it, daddy, And he's like, hmmm,

662
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,720
Speaker 1: I kind of like this girl. Like everybody she meets,

663
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: she she is exactly what they want her to be.

664
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: And you know, that's a lot of work. When she

665
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: tells the story of her life, she sets it up

666
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: so that Margot and the play aged in Wood literally

667
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: saved her life. And who doesn't want to hear that?

668
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: Who doesn't want to hear I was at my lowest

669
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: point and you and your art saved me right, Like

670
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's so she is incredibly smart, and

671
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: she's like determined in a very funny old timing way.

672
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: But she's very determined to change her like station in life,

673
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: which a lot of us are, and it's like you,

674
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: she's trying to live out the American dream and she's

675
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: like willing to ruin people's lives over it, and it

676
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: sounds like, I mean, we don't know what Margot was

677
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: like as a young woman, but we do know that

678
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: Margot also started as like a lower middle class girl

679
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: and escalated to the huge star that she is. So

680
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: it's not out of the realm with possibility that Margot

681
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: was once using this playbook, um, which I think it

682
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: would be kind of interesting to know. But I think

683
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: like Eve, I mean, I know, even the quote unquote

684
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 1: villain of the story, but even watching it, even if

685
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: you don't interpret Eve as the villain of the story,

686
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: it is like cool to see, like you're saying, sorry,

687
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: how she uses that playbook, which it's like in many ways,

688
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: and it's like frustrating to watch her have to kind

689
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: of like convince these mostly male figures and Margot that

690
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: she is worthy and to get the information she needs

691
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: to get to where she wants to be. But then

692
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: you kind of see at a much lower less scary level.

693
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: Marilyn Monrose character has to do the exact same thing

694
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: where she's like brought out and told immediately like you

695
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: have to be nice to this old man. If you

696
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 1: want to be successful, do it. And then and people

697
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: get frustrated with her because she's good at it. But

698
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: it's like you told her that that was the only

699
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: option she had, Like what else is she supposed to do? Yeah,

700
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: like Addison de Witt brings her to Margo's party to

701
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: flirt with Max. Yeah, to flirt with Max, because Max

702
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: is a producer, and Max is just like, oh my stomach,

703
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: you know, like he's that Hollywood producer we all know

704
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: and love from the forties. I guess he's like I

705
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: need I need digestivates. You're like, yeah, get this man

706
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: some thums. You're like, what the fund does this guy do?

707
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 1: And then Addison just as goes, okay, well here's Max.

708
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: Go basically, you know, pull your dress down off one

709
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: shoulder and go, you know, hang out with him a

710
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: little bit. And she's like, okay, just go show over

711
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: your tits, okay. But it's like she's not given and

712
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: and it's also what I like about I mean, There's

713
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: not too much to say about Marilyn Monro's character. She's

714
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 1: only in two scenes, but she does have that little

715
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: arc where I think she tells him like outright, she's

716
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: just like, whire all of these guys gross. Like she

717
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: basically says, I hate that I have to do this,

718
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, you have to do it, so yeah, yeah,

719
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: And it's like that. I I appreciate that this greenwriting

720
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: goes to like demonstrate that, like, these women aren't idiots.

721
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: They know that like what is being asked if them

722
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,959
Speaker 1: is unreasonable. But there there doesn't at this time seem

723
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: to be an alternative, right because, like I mean, we

724
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: we talk about what women sometimes have to do to

725
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: get ahead in the world because the world is set

726
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: up so that it's harder for women to you know,

727
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: make a livable income or to get promotions or be

728
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: leaders of industry or anything like that. And this was,

729
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: you know, even more true for nineteen fifty than it

730
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: is now. So that means that, you know, women sometimes

731
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,959
Speaker 1: have to turn to other avenues just to be able

732
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: to survive or get ahead in the smallest way, and

733
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: sometimes that means women having to use their sexuality to

734
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: get ahead, which is what we see Marilyn Monroe do

735
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: um well, and Eve's willing to do it too. She

736
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: tries to seduce Bill, she tries to seduce Lloyd. Okay,

737
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: so question about even Lloyd. Do you think she's bullshitting

738
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: Addison at the end, I can't tell. I feel like

739
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 1: just knowing her, yes, I think she is. But I'm

740
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: always down to hate Lloyd more. But it doesn't seem

741
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: like that just seems like it happened too fast to

742
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: be true, and things like we don't see and you know,

743
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: the fact that they apparently cut fifty pages of script

744
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: kind of makes this make more sense. I'm like, we

745
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: never we as viewers never see them together, which is

746
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: a thing that we need to have to you know

747
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: what I mean. In this film, the camera is objective,

748
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: so if we had seen Lloyd and Eve make out,

749
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: I would believe it. But when Eve says something, I

750
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: don't necessarily believe it, right, which is like you're supposed

751
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: to feel that way too, So you're just like, but

752
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: but is that an artistic choice to like to imply

753
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 1: ambiguity or is it just cover time? I'm not sure,

754
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: But I mean, so we have like women using their

755
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: sexuality to get ahead. We or like women marrying a

756
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: man who will provide financial security, and that's maybe like

757
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: what Karen does with Lloyd, because like she's always framed

758
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: as like I don't have any part of the theater

759
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: except for my husband, he is a playwright, and she

760
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 1: does have his job for him. What do we see

761
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: over and over, Like she makes a lot of the

762
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: high level decisions, she makes casting decisions like I'm just

763
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: like put her on the bank roll Lloyd, Jesus no, yeah,

764
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And then another thing that women might have

765
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: to do to again like change their station in life

766
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 1: is to trample on other women to get ahead, which

767
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: is what Eve is doing. But again, like, there are

768
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: a lot of situations where women might feel like they

769
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: have to compete against another woman for something, and it's

770
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 1: often because they're operating within an industry or an institution

771
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: that is again controlled by men, and men have only

772
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,280
Speaker 1: allotted a small number of spaces for the women to occupy.

773
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: So of course, like women and feel like they have

774
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: to compete against each other for these very finite number

775
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: of spaces, especially when society gives women like an expiration

776
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: date and like doesn't value older women, which is Margot's

777
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 1: whole insecurity Um And I feel like a lot of

778
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: a lot of movies that we've talked about do have

779
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 1: this through line of women being in competition with each

780
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 1: other and some into varying degrees of success. Will they

781
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: explore why that might be, But the fact that it

782
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: attempts it, I feel like it is like kind of impressive,

783
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: kind of impressive for ninety especially a movie that was,

784
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, written and directed by a man um because

785
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: a lot of these movies, like the ones that we've

786
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 1: covered so far in the podcast, that have been about

787
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: kind of antagonistic or competitive female relationships. You know, We've

788
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 1: got Death Becomes Her, Working Girl and the Favorite Those

789
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: are some of our Matreon episodes. We've got Black Swan,

790
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: We've got Single White Female, We've got My Best Friend's Wedding.

791
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: And I think all of these movies are written and

792
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: or directed by men. So I'm like, if manco Witz

793
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: can do it thirty years before you did, what's the

794
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: problem or just let a woman write a movie. Women's

795
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: interiority was not invented until the nineties. But I also

796
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: wonder like how many of these men are just like, well,

797
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: women be petty and women be competing against each other.

798
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: I have no idea why they might be like that,

799
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: but that's how they be, so like they just make

800
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: movies about it. There. The other thing with this that

801
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: is not even mentioned in the film's credits, which seems

802
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: kind of fucked, is that um Joseph Manko has adapted

803
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: this from a short story written by a woman. Um,

804
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: which may expect. I don't know how faithfully adapted it is.

805
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: I think that he like it was a pretty short

806
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: story and he really flushed it out, and it was

807
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: mainly the Eve character that he took. But it was

808
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: a short story written by a writer named Mary Or

809
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 1: who I guess was hanging or round Hollywood and had

810
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: like seen some all about Eve situation and wrote about it.

811
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: But she's not She's not credited at all, and she's

812
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 1: not credited. They just like stole her story and didn't

813
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: credit her. Well, I mean, I think she didn't steal it.

814
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: She was pay like she was, but she wasn't credited,

815
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: which is like bad. Um, We've got to take another

816
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: quick break, but we'll come right back. Well, we're talking

817
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,959
Speaker 1: about Eve. I wanted to talk Caitlin. We talked about

818
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: this briefly yesterday. But um, there has been a fair

819
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: amount written about um how Eve maybe queer coded. It's

820
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: never been said by Mankowitz whether this was intended, but um,

821
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: it's been speculated that the characters of Addison de Witt

822
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: and Eve are both queer coded characters, and they are

823
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: also the two villains of the story. Um, which seems

824
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: to be you know, a very um, regressive, old timmy

825
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: Hollywood thing that happens all the time. But there's been

826
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's weird, there's stuff written about it kind

827
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: of both ways. I'm pulling brilliantly from the Wikipedia page here.

828
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: But um, brave, brave Jamie, thank you so much. I

829
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: can't wait for to read our iTunes reviews of like

830
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: These Dumb Broads Should Die? Um um okay. Professor Robert J. Corber,

831
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 1: who has studied homophobia within the cultural context of the

832
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: Coldware in the US, posits the foundational theme and all

833
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: but Eve is the defense of the norms of heterosexuality,

834
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: specifically in terms of patriarchal marriage. Uh must be upheld

835
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: in the face of challenges from female agency and homosexuality.

836
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: The nurturing heterosexual relationships of Margo and Bill, and of

837
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: Karen and Lloyd served to contrast the loveless relationship, predation,

838
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: and sterile careerism of the homosexual characters, even Addison. Um, okay,

839
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: so question what is the basis for reading Eve as

840
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: queer coded? I guess because she never she's like doesn't

841
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: have a real boyfriend. I don't know, right, Okay, so

842
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: this is basically the same thing with Addison is like

843
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 1: he's kind of effeminine and he doesn't have a girlfriend.

844
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: That's it. Well, I've also seen people. I've also seen

845
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: people site the line and it's it's like either way,

846
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: they don't explicitly like Addison for sure fields old timey

847
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: queer coding to me. But I'm like, maybe that's not true.

848
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, but but there is that one line.

849
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 1: I definitely I definitely think so. But um, sometimes that's

850
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: all there is, you know what I mean. Like, but

851
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that it's not a thing, you

852
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: know what I mean? The line I saw people sighting

853
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: in writing about this movie as like possibly commenting on

854
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: quirt as. It was at the end where Addison says

855
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: that he like actually doesn't want to suck or anything.

856
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: She's gross and then he says, you're an improbable person, Eve,

857
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: So am I we have that in common? And so

858
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: different people have interpreted that as some like very production

859
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 1: codey it may shin of otherness, but it was never said.

860
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: And and interestingly, Mankowitz Um has said in interviews later,

861
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: I don't think he was asked about this outright, but

862
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: that he he um is not homophobic, which is I

863
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: mean imagine um he said that, Um he thinks that

864
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: society should quote drop its vendetta against homosexuals unquote, which

865
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: is a very old timey way to be an ally. Um.

866
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: Can I give a different reading? And I'm sorry, I

867
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: just I've been too exposed to b D s M

868
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: culture via via a close friend to not be able

869
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 1: to read so many scenes in this as highly sexual

870
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: power dynamics. So one way that I read Addison and

871
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: Eve is like he shows up and he's like, hey,

872
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: what if I own you? And she's like, UM, no thanks,

873
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 1: and he's like, all blackmail you if you don't let

874
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: me own you, because that's what he wants to do.

875
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 1: And while I see that as a reading of like

876
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: he's gay and he wants a beard, you know, if

877
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: that's like the queer reading. It's like beat my girlfriend

878
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: in public, and I'll not reveal your secret life to anyone.

879
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: Also want to mention her real name, Gertrude Slovinsky. There

880
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,439
Speaker 1: might be some other types of coding going on here

881
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: that's true or not careful. There might be a little

882
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: bit of a little bit of anti Semitism here if

883
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: we're if we're thinking about it, and I mean you

884
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: would think that in this I mean, I think that

885
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: this movie is supposed to take place around n That

886
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: used to be a super common Hollywood practice would be

887
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 1: if you had a name that sounded to other in

888
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: any way, you just have to change it. But not

889
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: make a Witz, not make Wits. But if make a

890
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 1: Witz was a woman, maybe he would have possibly, Yeah,

891
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, I think I think it's a it's a

892
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: it's an interesting way of commenting on like whitewashing in Hollywood.

893
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole readA Hey Earth story. There's so

894
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 1: many stories like that. It's an interesting it's an interesting point.

895
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: But anyways, back to back to even Addison, Um, it

896
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: really feels like it's a very master slave type relationship. Um.

897
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: And that may not be what is implied, but I

898
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: think if you, uh, if you wanted to read it

899
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: that way, you could and it just I don't know,

900
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: it really jumps out at me. That's a fun read

901
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 1: like that. There dynamic is like, so it's so sexy,

902
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 1: you know, as you said, um, as you quoted from that.

903
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: Basically the queer theory reading of it, their relationship is

904
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: very sterile, sexless ambitious. It's all about getting ahead. He

905
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: wants to be with her, not because he wants to

906
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: fuck her, you know, it's about my career, like your

907
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: body disgusts me. I only love power. Let's use each other. Yeah,

908
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: and then Eve is like mmmm, but like once Eve,

909
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: Eve immediately uses Addison before before that part. She uses

910
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: Addison from the beginning to at a hit like she's like,

911
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,399
Speaker 1: come watch my audition. Oh, I'll hang out with you, like,

912
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: and she uses him in his column. I don't know.

913
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: It's it's a very it's a tale of like two

914
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: people who are both very strong willed and trying to

915
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: manipulate each other. And then Addison is like, I have

916
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: out manipulated you. Now you're the sub I don't know.

917
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: I like this theory and it should be added to

918
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: the Wikipedia page. Thank you. Please, added Jamie added to

919
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 1: the page, I'll do it. But yeah, that there, that's

920
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: the that's the queer theory reading. Before we get to Margaret.

921
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 1: I mean, Margot's the one to watch here, but I

922
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: wanted I had a few things to say quickly about

923
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: Karen a k a the his wife of the story.

924
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 1: I could talk about Karen four hours. Karen is I

925
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: feel again it's like they're most movies of this time

926
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: and of this time would not make Karen such a

927
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: like a character with such depth, because she's presented to

928
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: us as like she is the good wife Julianna Margolie's

929
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: like she she's very polite, she's very respectful, she is

930
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: doing what society is expecting of her. But later you

931
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 1: get to see that she's like frustrated. She's frustrated and

932
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: insecure in her marriage because she's married to an egotistical, asshole,

933
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: narcissist who doesn't recognize how much she's contributing to his career. She,

934
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: like Margot, is constantly told that she's being hysterical when

935
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: she is simply stating what is happening in front of people,

936
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 1: and I like that her Her friendship with Margot is

937
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,399
Speaker 1: kind of complicated too, because Margot is condescending to her

938
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: for being a good wife, So like Karen is being

939
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: put down for doing what society is asked of her,

940
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: and Margot, I kind of interpret, like takes out her

941
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 1: insecurity on Karen and be like, oh, you're such a

942
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: good little wife, and then that motivates Karen to kind

943
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: of fuck Margot over a little, which, like I think

944
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: lesser writing would make that seem like women be fucking

945
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: each other over, But with Karen, it's like, no one

946
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: isn't shipping on Karen and she's only like doing what

947
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: she thinks that she's supposed to do, and so I

948
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: just like, I think she's fascinating, and I mean, I

949
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: just like her. Between Margot, Bill Lloyd, and Eve, everyone

950
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 1: in Karen's life is a narcissist except Bertie. Except for Bertie,

951
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 1: who is so awesome. Bertie is absolutely my favorite character.

952
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: She's Karen is like caretaking everybody, constantly catering to these

953
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: huge egos that are pummeling her from every direction. Like

954
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 1: can you imagine being friends with Margot the world's biggest leo,

955
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 1: Like just somebody who's always like it's all about me, me, me,

956
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: like literally the star of the show on stage and off,

957
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: she's exactly the same. Everybody is like Margot's famous for

958
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 1: being nuts, so like she's just a very classic drama

959
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: Queen's literally Betty Davis like it's just yeah, and she's like,

960
00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: she's like, Karen's my best friend, Like, who do you

961
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: think that best friend is not somebody who's ever going

962
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,479
Speaker 1: to try and take the spotlight away from her? Yeah,

963
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 1: someone who's compartmentalizing the funk out of her life, no

964
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: threat to Margot whatsoever, and someone who's very, very very

965
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: happy being being totally behind the scenes. Karen deserves better,

966
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: but also she then she drains the gas tank and

967
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm gonna sunk over my friend. I like that.

968
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: I like that, Karen. But Karen's not smart there I think,

969
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean, Karen's smarter than people give her credit for it,

970
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: but I guess that that's kind of relative. But she's

971
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: not that smart. Everyone treats Karen like a fucking idiot,

972
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: and she is like average. She thinks she's smart. I

973
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: just don't think she's conniving the way that like Eve is,

974
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 1: or I don't think she is. She does like one

975
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: mean thing and then immediately feels endless guilt about it,

976
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: And I mean it was a really shitty thing, Like

977
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: I think what Karen does is almost worse than things

978
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 1: that that like. And she never comes clean to Margot

979
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: about it. I mean, Margot would murder her, but Margot

980
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: would murder her, and so she doesn't tell her, and

981
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 1: so she is kind of in a way lying to

982
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: her best friend. She is yes, to protect her life.

983
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 1: These people need therapy, So a therapist. Why would I

984
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: have a therapist when I get sorry, when I could

985
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: have a bottle of scotch ha ha. You're just like,

986
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: oh my god, therapist right, hair on the ball cock.

987
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: But then I feel I mean, I do feel bad

988
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: for Margot, who again is like a pretty egomaniacal narcissist who,

989
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 1: maybe you could argue, kind of drums up drama now

990
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: and then. But also like she is, you know, the

991
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: victim of Eve exploiting and manipulating her. And she keeps

992
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,399
Speaker 1: saying like, I don't trust this woman. She's annoying me.

993
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: She's like pushing boundaries, like there's a lot of issues here.

994
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: She's lying all this stuff, and you know, Bill is like,

995
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: you're a paranoid none of this is happening. You know.

996
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: Lloyd is over here being like having you in my

997
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: place is a compromise. Your performances are lackluster, but it's

998
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: only because he's not writing the right parts for her.

999
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: He calls her a piano. It makes me so mad.

1000
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: Oh he like it's it's one of those funny ones

1001
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, men objectify women, and then you

1002
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: hear that line and you're like that's a bit much

1003
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: like there. Yeah, like that's a little too on the nose, dude,

1004
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: we get it. You think women are objects exactly brutal.

1005
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: I love in the party scene where Addison is like

1006
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: kind of drunk and he's just like blathering about like

1007
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: we're all freaks in the theater and like talking about

1008
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: how they're all they all go to the theater because

1009
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: they have nowhere else to go. Man, it's like this

1010
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: fucking breakfast club ass moment. And he's like, that's why

1011
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: we're all here, dude, and everyone's like, yeah, yeah, we're

1012
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: all a little random here, and you're like, stop it.

1013
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: It's so x d I do agree. I think that,

1014
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: like Marco, I mean, Margot is that's why she's so amazing.

1015
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: It's like she like, there are times where she is

1016
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: being a straight up brat, she's being a diva at

1017
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: different times, but then there's other times where it's like, no,

1018
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: she this concern she has is legitimate and people are

1019
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: ignoring her, and she's just defensive about it because everybody

1020
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: is constantly telling her, like, hey, don't you think you

1021
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: should maybe think about retiring? So she's kind of like, no,

1022
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: funk off. Yeah, there's a few. There's a few moments

1023
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: that I mean, Mark like, all of her moments are great,

1024
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: but they were like two in particular that I was

1025
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: just like that always blow me away. The first one

1026
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: is it's a scene with her and Bill. It's been

1027
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: mentioned that she's like gained a little bit of weight

1028
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: and she's being shamed for it, and she's in the

1029
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 1: same she is almost eating a chocolate the whole scene,

1030
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: which is a miracle because we don't see women eating

1031
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: movies ever. Uh, and Bill is calling her hysterical. He's

1032
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: saying it gently, but he's like, you gotta relax with

1033
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: all this stuff, la lah blah, and she's like resisting

1034
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: eating the chocolate and resisting eating the chocolate, and then

1035
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,439
Speaker 1: once he gaslights her for the fourth or fifth time,

1036
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: She's just like shrugs and eats it, and it's like

1037
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: it's such a good moment. You're like, yep, everyone's been

1038
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: in that situation. And then there's that scene with her

1039
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 1: and Karen in the car, which is like heartbreaking and

1040
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: so like that scene where like Margaret, like if it

1041
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: wasn't already clear, you know that she's like very self

1042
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: aware of like she doesn't want to be loved for

1043
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: her image. She wants to be loved for herself. But

1044
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 1: how can she expect someone to love her for herself

1045
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: when she can't even distinguish herself from her image? And

1046
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: you're like, WHOA, that's heavy. And then she has that

1047
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: that monologue where she's like, funny business a woman's career,

1048
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: like that whole woman's career speech. Oh yeah, I have

1049
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: it here. She says, funny business a woman's career. The

1050
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: things you drop on the way up, the letters so

1051
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: that you can move faster. You'll forget you need the

1052
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: when you get back to being a woman. That's one

1053
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: career all females have in common, whether we like it

1054
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: or not, being a woman. But then she goes on

1055
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: to be like and you're not a woman unless you

1056
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: have a man who is married to you haven't performed

1057
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: your gender until you have U have a sexual partner.

1058
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: It's it's so it's so heartbreaking because it's like you

1059
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: can you can see why she wants to give up

1060
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: show like it's it's and and it's the same with

1061
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: like Bettie Davis. If like, it's not that Margot doesn't

1062
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: want to act, is that she just like is tired

1063
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: of like having to act in a very specific way

1064
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: that no longer makes sense, and like having to put

1065
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: up with all this stuff like no wonder she's like,

1066
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: fuck it. Yeah, how many actors, how many actors and

1067
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: actresses in Hollywood right now? Do you think basically feel

1068
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: the exact same way. Sure, I mean it's like I

1069
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,439
Speaker 1: think you see a lot of women who I mean

1070
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,439
Speaker 1: usually they start lifestyle brands. But I'm thinking of someone

1071
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,439
Speaker 1: I think of because we just recorded Are my best

1072
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: Friend's wedding episode yesterday, is Cameron Diaz, where like she

1073
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: was so famous and she always played a variation on

1074
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 1: like the same role, and then when she turned forties,

1075
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: she was like and I don't I mean, I don't

1076
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: want to speculate and Cameron Diaza. I don't know why

1077
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: she chose to retire from acting, but I mean it's

1078
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, they're there, just aren't as many options,

1079
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: and it's like you can go on ABC and play

1080
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 1: a lawyer, but like what else you know, there's not

1081
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 1: the options aren't always there, and it's like you you

1082
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: have to like empathize. I don't know, Marko, that's that

1083
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: car speech, fox me up. It makes me so sad. Yeah,

1084
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: it's that ultimate moment if she's like, man, I know

1085
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: I've been a bit, but ship can you blame me?

1086
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: And you're like Noah, And it's so it's so like

1087
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: relatable to me to be like, ah, fuck, well, I

1088
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: guess I was really shitty everybody. Yeah, I mean she

1089
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: said something like I've been over sensitive to the fact

1090
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: that Eve is so young, so feminine, so helpless, Like

1091
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: she is like admitting to her insecurities about like Eve's

1092
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: youth and all this stuff, and then like Karen is

1093
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: sitting right beside her being like well, being being feminine

1094
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: in this context is being helpless. Like Margot is less

1095
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: feminine because she is not totally helpless. She definitely struggles

1096
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: with things, but she doesn't she doesn't need a man,

1097
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: you know, like or at least she or at least

1098
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: she acts like she doesn't for a while and then goes, yeah,

1099
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: I do. I don't like that was kind of a

1100
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: with with her and Bill. It's like there are a

1101
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: lot there are issues in that relationship. But I was

1102
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: kind of like, does she like need a man or

1103
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 1: does she want one? And like, like, I think maybe

1104
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: she doesn't need one, but she does want one, and

1105
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: there's like a conflict in her feelings of like she

1106
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: wants a man in her life, but she only wants

1107
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: it on very specific terms of like she's like you

1108
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: are Steadman, and Bills like I don't want to be

1109
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: Steadman and she's like, well, I don't know what to

1110
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: tell you because I want Steadman. And I mean, it's

1111
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: it's really interesting because it's I'm I think that it

1112
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: would be kind of like the easy choice to make

1113
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: with Marco, and I don't like the way that they

1114
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 1: end up sort of being like and then she was

1115
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: a wife and the end. But I think it is

1116
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: an interesting choice to give Margot the dimension of like, yes,

1117
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 1: she's very powerful, she guards her power, she's very talented,

1118
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: but she does want someone to love her for herself

1119
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: and is worried that that's not going to happen. That's

1120
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: very understandable. And if she wants a companionship in a

1121
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: man like totally fine. Many many people do, but it

1122
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: feels like such a weird inconsistency for her to start

1123
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: out being like, no, I don't want to get married.

1124
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: If we got married right now, it would just be

1125
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 1: to prove a point, and I don't want that, Like,

1126
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: we don't need to be married, and then like suddenly,

1127
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: out of nowhere, there's this shift in her character where

1128
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 1: she's like, well, I'm not a woman unless I marry

1129
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: this man, so let's get engaged. And it's like, where

1130
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 1: is this coming from? Well, it reminds me a lot

1131
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 1: of Katherine Hepburn movies, where in the beginning she's like,

1132
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: I don't need a man, funk everyone, and then halfway

1133
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: through the movie someone goes, Katherine, you've been putting on

1134
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: this persona where you're a bit and we know that

1135
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: deep down you want love from a man, and then

1136
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: she goes, I do, and I love those movies and

1137
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: I love Katherine Hepburn, and and she knew this, and

1138
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 1: she even talked about this as an actress, that she

1139
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: was typecast as you know, this this huge, gorgeous, like

1140
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 1: Amazon sort of lesbian, you know, who had as many

1141
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: lines and as much screen time as the man that

1142
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: she was in a romance with. But you know, it's

1143
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 1: it's how kind of how I feel about the Philadelphia story. Like,

1144
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: I love that in the beginning of that movie, she's

1145
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: so hard and so strong about maintaining her identity, and

1146
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 1: like in this movie, Margot was like, Hey, I love you,

1147
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: but I don't want to subsume my literal identity into yours.

1148
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 1: And Bill is like, come on, come on just a little,

1149
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: and she's like, no, I don't like that. And then

1150
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 1: by the end she's like, know what, I really love Bill.

1151
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: I guess I could subsume my identity for him a little,

1152
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: which is a thing that millions of people do every

1153
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 1: fucking day. Yeah it sucks, because yeah, it's it sucks

1154
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 1: to like watch someone make that choice, but it's it

1155
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 1: makes sense that she like of the time, it makes

1156
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, well, you know, I'm just saying like

1157
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 1: it feels it feels relevant to now. You know, there

1158
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 1: are just people who are like who either you know,

1159
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: sometimes it's marriage, sometimes it's moving in with a partner.

1160
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just you know, your fucking boundaries or whatever.

1161
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: But I don't know, I feel like there are there

1162
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: are people now who who are in kind of the

1163
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: same situation. And this movie is pretty old and that

1164
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: is yeah. I mean it is like and and I

1165
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: mean even speaking to it, you're saying about Katherine Hepburn

1166
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 1: movie is like that, like taming an independent spirit thing

1167
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: is such a thing. And it's also like, yeah, like

1168
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: the the almost like weird fantasy of like male writers

1169
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: being like, oh, the only reason that a woman would

1170
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: act independent is because they want to get the attention

1171
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: of a man. And then what they do they can chill,

1172
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: you know. And yeah, the way I do I kind

1173
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: of against my better judgment. I like Margot and Bill

1174
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: for each other in in a lot of moments, and

1175
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that he shows up for her in

1176
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: a way that that no one does in the movie,

1177
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 1: because he's like one of the only people in the

1178
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: movie who doesn't really betray her at any point. Um,

1179
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: So we do appreciate him on that level of like

1180
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: he does seem to be I mean, for all the

1181
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 1: you're hysterical and not like we see the same scene

1182
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 1: with multiple female characters in this movie where it's a

1183
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: woman talking to a man and he's like, you're being

1184
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 1: hysterical and she's like, no, it's you're talking to me

1185
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,959
Speaker 1: that way because of my gender, and they say what,

1186
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: and then that's the whole scene. Um. Yeah, and Bill

1187
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: is Bill is just as guilty of that attitude as

1188
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: the other men in the movie. I do appreciate that

1189
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 1: he shows up for her and does seem to love her,

1190
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: and there's like when that bullshit Addison de Witt article

1191
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 1: comes out, he's there right away, and like, I appreciate

1192
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: that element of Bill. I do think that like Margot

1193
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: and Bill are a very good pair because Margot really

1194
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 1: wants somebody who only wants her, and you know, for

1195
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 1: all of Bill's other faults, that is something that he is.

1196
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 1: You know, he wants, Yeah, he loves, he loves her

1197
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: and and I know, like for the cultural context of

1198
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: the time, there are things that you know, we would

1199
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 1: interpret as like clingy or weird that at the time

1200
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: we're like, this is what someone does when they're in

1201
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: love and respect a woman. You know, it's weird it's

1202
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 1: like and in this movie, this movie is very often

1203
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 1: compared to Sunset Boulevard, which comes out around the same time,

1204
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: and there was like just a period I'm sure that

1205
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 1: someone's written a thesis on this, but like a period

1206
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: of time where like the aging actress was a part

1207
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 1: that was available to women over forty and they were like,

1208
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: look at this amazing opportunity for you. You're playing yourself

1209
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: and how you feel insecure, and they were supposed to

1210
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: be like, and you're a monster, and it ends horribly

1211
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 1: for you. But but I think, I mean, I used

1212
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 1: to really like Sunset Blean. It's a very well written movie.

1213
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 1: But I think watching them both, I've seen them both

1214
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 1: this year now, and I mean, Sunset Bolevard is is

1215
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,520
Speaker 1: not very kind to women. And I think that, like Margot,

1216
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,719
Speaker 1: I guess Margot's strength at the end of the movie

1217
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 1: is that she has the respect and love of the

1218
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: people in her life. Still, She's still even though Karen

1219
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:40,679
Speaker 1: is lying to her, she has Karen, she has Lloyd,

1220
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: she has Bill, and she has like her support system

1221
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 1: is intact, and but that's at the expense of her

1222
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: career sort of. I don't know, it's just all very right, Well,

1223
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: I think I think what the film like wants to

1224
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: portray by the end is like, sure, E've got what

1225
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 1: she wanted material gain, power, success, aim, but at the

1226
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: expense of she can't break up with Addison DeWitt or

1227
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: else he will destroy her life. So like She's got

1228
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: this partner who she's with not because she loves him,

1229
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 1: but because he's literally blackmailing her. And Margot has this

1230
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 1: partner who is with her because he loves her, and

1231
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: that's it. He's not with her because she's famous. He's

1232
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: not trying to get anything out of her. He really

1233
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 1: does just want to be with her, even if she's

1234
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: not an actress anymore. So in that way, like Margot

1235
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: basically not being an actress anymore is shown as like

1236
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: a positive thing. Yeah, like for her identity. Yeah, it's

1237
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 1: implied that she's able to be more comfortable and more

1238
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:44,640
Speaker 1: herself not acting. But again that lets I mean, that

1239
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: lets Lloyd off the hook in a major way, because

1240
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,759
Speaker 1: it's like, yes, why would you want Lloyd in your lifestyle.

1241
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, ultimately watching it through this time,

1242
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: it just felt very clear that like the villain of

1243
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: the movie is the industry that they're in and not

1244
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 1: even specifically, Um, whether the movie recognizes that, I kind of.

1245
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so. Actually, I don't know.

1246
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how hard was thinking about this. I

1247
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:11,759
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it does. I think it touches

1248
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: hard on, you know, like with the with the Miss

1249
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: Caswell stuff, on just the disposability of young talent and

1250
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 1: how the industry will take somebody from nobody to super

1251
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 1: famous receiving industry's highest award within a year, and who

1252
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 1: knows what the funk will happen to even in a year.

1253
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: You know, she's like a she's like a child star basically,

1254
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, and child stars often have a very rough

1255
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: time when they stop being a child star. It's true. Yeah,

1256
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 1: I mean I think that at very at least manko

1257
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,799
Speaker 1: Witz is he's making common he's making a pretty brutal

1258
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:50,520
Speaker 1: commentary on theater specifically, which like so I'm like, okay,

1259
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 1: you know he's got some vendetta against the theater what

1260
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, it does seem like he has an

1261
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 1: awareness that this is But but I can't tell that

1262
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: if he's just framing like this is how this industry works,

1263
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: I can't tell how critical he actually is of it,

1264
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:08,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, um, but either way, it's a fucking

1265
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 1: well written movie. It's really I have Can I share

1266
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: some of my favorite lines of dialogue, because there are lots.

1267
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 1: I'll try to pair this down, um, starting with I mean,

1268
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: there's among the many, many conversations that Margot has about

1269
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 1: age and aging in her insecurities around it. UM. At

1270
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 1: one point we learned that she is forty and Bill

1271
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 1: is thirty two, so she's eight years older than him,

1272
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: and she says, he's thirty two, he looks thirty two.

1273
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 1: He looked at five years ago, he'll look at twenty

1274
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: years from now. I hate men. Another one is toward

1275
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,879
Speaker 1: the beginning, when Margot says to Lloyd, be a playwright

1276
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 1: with guts, write me one about a nice, normal woman

1277
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 1: who just shoots her husband. And we're like, yes, they

1278
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 1: really knew how to like write amazing insults and like

1279
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,640
Speaker 1: Snyde remarks in old Hollywood Betty Davis, I guess she

1280
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 1: had a reputation for rewriting a lot of her own

1281
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 1: lines in movies, and this was supposed to be one

1282
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: of the only movies she was ever in that she

1283
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 1: like didn't rewrite a single line. Amazing, interesting because there's

1284
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: an exchange about that where Lloyd is talking about the

1285
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 1: words he's written in his plays, and he's like, just

1286
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 1: when exactly does an actress decide they are her words

1287
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: that she's saying, her thoughts she's expressing. And Margot responds

1288
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 1: right back with usually at the point when she has

1289
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 1: to rewrite and rethink them to keep the audience from

1290
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 1: leaving the theater, right, which is like, literally, what Betty

1291
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: Davis would do? We really really quick before I forget,

1292
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 1: So I guess. Claudette Colbert was originally supposed to play

1293
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:52,679
Speaker 1: the part of Margo um and, in I think the

1294
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 1: most old Hollywood depressing reason of all time, she could

1295
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: not play the part and the part went to Benny

1296
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 1: Davis because Claudette Colbert hurt her back in a rape

1297
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: scene in a movie. Literally the movie was about her

1298
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 1: getting raped and her back was hurt, and so she

1299
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: couldn't play this role of a lifetime. Most oppressing thing

1300
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: I've ever heard in my life anyways, um continue, that's

1301
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: so fucked up. Also, um manco Witz said that, and

1302
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:27,759
Speaker 1: Baxter he said it was such a weird, old timey

1303
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 1: sexist compliment. He said that ann back he chose and

1304
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: Baxter to play Eve because she had bitch virtuosity. Yeah.

1305
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: I read that somewhere too, which is I'm like, I mean,

1306
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 1: he's right. I feel like women should be allowed to

1307
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 1: use that phrase among themselves. Yes, Eve has extremely high

1308
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 1: level of bitch virtuosity. And okay, Caitlin, did you write

1309
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: down that part where Eve is talking about applause and

1310
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:01,919
Speaker 1: she's like, applause, applause, it rushes over you like waves.

1311
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 1: Oh no, I didn't write that one down. It's so good.

1312
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: She's just like I can only get horny when people

1313
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: are applauding. That whole scene is just her monologue about

1314
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 1: like I need attention. I love it and I can't

1315
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 1: live without it. And that's why I feel like with

1316
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 1: her in Addison, it's just about power. She's like I

1317
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: need the power, and he's like, I got you the power.

1318
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 1: You're my slave, and she's like, okay, Oh, here's a

1319
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 1: fun one that Marilyn Monroe's character says to Eve about

1320
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 1: Addison de Witt because Eve is like, oh, I don't

1321
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 1: want to we we should? You should to me, I'll

1322
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:37,640
Speaker 1: just I'll just bore you and Marilyn Monroe says, you

1323
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 1: won't bore him, honey, you won't even get a chance

1324
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 1: to talk. And oh, it's like such a great burn

1325
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 1: that she I don't even think she realizes is a burn.

1326
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe is so good at that, at like just

1327
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:52,759
Speaker 1: being like acting so dumb but saying it so perfectly. Yeah,

1328
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:55,839
Speaker 1: man's great. Uh. And then I think my final favorite

1329
01:14:55,840 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: line that I will share is Lloyd talking to Karen

1330
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 1: while they're arguing about Eve. He says that better cynicism

1331
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 1: of yours is something you've acquired since you've left Radcliffe,

1332
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: and Karen says that cynicism you referred to I acquired

1333
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: the day I discovered I was different from little Boys,

1334
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 1: and we're like, ah, feminist icon Karen. Karen is right.

1335
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 1: Every time a woman has intuition in this movie, she

1336
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: has treated as if she is making things up right,

1337
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:29,759
Speaker 1: and she's always right. She's like, like, being a woman

1338
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,840
Speaker 1: is about knowing ship that men don't know. Good grief.

1339
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:36,639
Speaker 1: The men in this movie are pretty dim. It's true.

1340
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:40,839
Speaker 1: Does anyone else have any other final thoughts to share?

1341
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: I don't think so. This is Oh god, this is

1342
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 1: so much fun. Yeah, this is I mean, I'm so

1343
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 1: glad I got to talk about this movie with someone

1344
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 1: about um the scene where Eve is in the bathroom

1345
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:56,120
Speaker 1: with Karen and his blackmailing her. She's wearing this incredible

1346
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: costume that has a really high neck and has like

1347
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: sort of a scallop neckline, and the actual neckline is

1348
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 1: very low, but the neck is very high and in

1349
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:08,560
Speaker 1: between is like a fine mesh. And it's so perfect

1350
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 1: for a scene where somebody who has acted extremely modest

1351
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 1: up until this point is suddenly is shown to be

1352
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 1: extremely false and have been like good costumes, good costumes

1353
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: he had. Has anyone ever said that? Also, Jamie, there

1354
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 1: is a respute and reference? Did you catch it? I love?

1355
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: I mean, as if the work couldn't be elevated more so?

1356
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:39,760
Speaker 1: Good God, if I wish, I wish Alfred Molina were

1357
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 1: alive for this, oh really quick car update. So I've

1358
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 1: been following, uh, Alfred Molina's fens to really carefully through

1359
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: the car and he he has a fence to and

1360
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 1: he's been sewing his own masks and he did a

1361
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 1: little so is my mom. He did a little jokey

1362
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 1: post yesterday where he was a message to everyone out

1363
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 1: there in the quarantine and it was just him wearing

1364
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 1: his mask and he was like who who and everyone's

1365
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 1: like ha ha, Freddy, you crack me up. I love that. Oh.

1366
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 1: I was going to tell you, guys, I saw Alfred

1367
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:18,800
Speaker 1: Malina in a play. Wait did you see the one

1368
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:22,759
Speaker 1: in Pasadena? Yeah? I saw the father. I saw the daddy.

1369
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 1: It was good that daddy was so good and so sad.

1370
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: I was not prepared for it to be so sad.

1371
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 1: Well I was. I was also led to believe that

1372
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 1: the woman who played ros On Fraser was going to

1373
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 1: be in the play, and that turned out to not

1374
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 1: be true. So I was a little disappointed from the

1375
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 1: guy that's so funny. My friend was just wrong. She

1376
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:41,600
Speaker 1: was like Ross from Fraser is in it, and I

1377
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 1: was like, okay with Alfred Mallina for sure. Well, this

1378
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 1: conversation about Alfred Malina unfortunately does not pass the well

1379
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:51,719
Speaker 1: I know it actually does pass the Bechtel tests, because

1380
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 1: we have said that any conversation about Alfred Millina does pass.

1381
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: And speaking of the Bechtel test, does all about Eve

1382
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: pass the Bechtel tests? Oh? Yeah? With flying colors? Oh yeah,

1383
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 1: first seen all the time. There's a lot of combinations

1384
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 1: of characters who talk to each other that passed between

1385
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:14,680
Speaker 1: even Karen, between Eve and Margot, Margot and Karen, Margot

1386
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:18,480
Speaker 1: and Birdie. The list goes on. It's a lot of passes.

1387
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 1: As far as our nipple scale zero to five nipples.

1388
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 1: Based on its representation of women, this one is a

1389
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: little tricky, and I wasn't nervous. I'll be honest, I

1390
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 1: was a little nervous to talk about this movie because

1391
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's classical Hollywood cinema. I don't know an

1392
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 1: awful lot about old Hollywood, so I was like, oh, no,

1393
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:43,640
Speaker 1: there's like gonna be all this context and stuff that

1394
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 1: I don't know about, and like information about the way

1395
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,680
Speaker 1: you know, movies were made and the way stories were

1396
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: told back then, and I just don't know enough about it.

1397
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,920
Speaker 1: But I do enjoy this movie. I do still struggle

1398
01:18:56,200 --> 01:19:02,400
Speaker 1: with movies that are about antagonistic relationships between women. I

1399
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 1: do think this movie has like a lot of nuance

1400
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: to its female characters. I do enjoy that it is

1401
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:12,800
Speaker 1: female driven, but I still, if given a choice, I

1402
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 1: will almost never choose a movie that is about an

1403
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 1: antagonistic female relationship, because even though they do exist, in

1404
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 1: the world. I far prefer to see, you know, if

1405
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 1: there's a story about an older, more distinguished, successful woman

1406
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 1: taking a younger woman under her wing and being her mentor,

1407
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 1: I would rather see that story play out that they like,

1408
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 1: have a great relationship and they conquer the world and

1409
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 1: take down the patriarchy together. And I just like I

1410
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 1: wish for more stories like that. Um, But I do,

1411
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: of course, I see a lot of value in this story.

1412
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:50,679
Speaker 1: I think it explores interesting themes, and I think that

1413
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 1: all the female characters are really interesting and far more

1414
01:19:54,880 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 1: fleshed out than we see in more contemporary movies, which um,

1415
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:04,719
Speaker 1: you wouldn't necessarily expect. But I think that just between

1416
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: the the examination of Margot and her insecurities about aging,

1417
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,639
Speaker 1: I do think that could have been explored a little

1418
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:16,840
Speaker 1: bit more fully in terms of like why is she

1419
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:21,320
Speaker 1: insecure about aging? Why do women end up in these competitive,

1420
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 1: antagonistic relationships. But I think it does a fairly good

1421
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:27,920
Speaker 1: job for a movie, you know, written and made in

1422
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 1: ninety But there's a lot to love about this and

1423
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 1: find very interesting and compelling. I'll give it like a

1424
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:40,679
Speaker 1: three nipples. I think, Um, of course, it's an extreme

1425
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 1: I don't you know they didn't let non white people

1426
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 1: be in movies back then, and if they did, they

1427
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 1: were in the most horrific trophy stereotypical, reductive roles imaginable.

1428
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:54,680
Speaker 1: And this movie just erases people of color altogether. Yeah,

1429
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 1: it's probably better that there were no people of color

1430
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,040
Speaker 1: in this movie, right, because they would not have been

1431
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 1: treated respectfully in any know, it would have made it

1432
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 1: so much worse. But you know, I think it does

1433
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: by today's standards, I think this movie holds up pretty magnificently. Um,

1434
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 1: it's not without his issues. And then also just like

1435
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 1: the weird message of like, yes, women can be strong

1436
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:21,360
Speaker 1: and awesome and great, and they shouldn't be antagonistic toward

1437
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 1: each other. But also a woman isn't a woman unless

1438
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 1: she's in a heteronormative relationship with a man and married

1439
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,040
Speaker 1: to him. So that feels a little bit like a

1440
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:34,960
Speaker 1: conflicting message. But overall, yeah, I think three nipples. I'll

1441
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 1: give two to Bertie and I'll give one to Bettie Davis.

1442
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this, Uh, I want to give it

1443
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 1: three point seven five. I guess I'll go three point

1444
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, I want, I wanna yeah. I I

1445
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:54,160
Speaker 1: also like, you know, I'm sure I have blind spots

1446
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 1: with this movie because I love it so much, But

1447
01:21:56,680 --> 01:22:00,080
Speaker 1: I just I think, especially for its time, Okay, I

1448
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:01,960
Speaker 1: think with the context, given it's time, I'm going to

1449
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 1: give it three point seven five because there is, like

1450
01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:10,040
Speaker 1: I do I agree that, um, the like implication that uh,

1451
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:13,719
Speaker 1: Margot's better off as a wife than as an actor.

1452
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:15,840
Speaker 1: But but it's also not that sim I don't know.

1453
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 1: I I think that there's so many different kinds of

1454
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 1: women in this My main issue with the movie, I

1455
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 1: think is that it's not I mean, Eve is the

1456
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,679
Speaker 1: clear cut villain, and it's not the system that they're

1457
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 1: inside of, but that is so inherent to the movie

1458
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 1: that it's hard to take yourself out of it. I

1459
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 1: just think that, I mean, this movie is about women

1460
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: in a way that for the most part and not

1461
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 1: but for the most part, is not condescending to their needs, wants, desires,

1462
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: or relationships with anyone around them. I just, Oh, Betty

1463
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:56,080
Speaker 1: Davis is so amazing. I do wish that it examined

1464
01:22:56,200 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 1: the aging more than just this is how women feel,

1465
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:02,560
Speaker 1: and not examine a why do women feel it this way? Um?

1466
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:06,000
Speaker 1: But just the performances are so good, and the relationships

1467
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 1: between women are so like they're they're more detailed than

1468
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 1: just like women pulling each other's hair for two hours.

1469
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 1: There's more like I just I really like it. So

1470
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 1: I'll go three point seven five. Maybe that's too nice,

1471
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:24,599
Speaker 1: give two to Bertie, uh one to Eve and uh

1472
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:28,000
Speaker 1: point seven five to Margo. I'm gonna go out out

1473
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 1: and give it four full nipples, do it? See? I

1474
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:34,840
Speaker 1: think something that we might want to do, Jamie for

1475
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,360
Speaker 1: like really old movies like this is like do sort

1476
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,479
Speaker 1: of like an adjusted for inflation nipple rating, where like

1477
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 1: if we were doing this podcast in like nineteen fifty

1478
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: and like this movie came out, it would be like, wow,

1479
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 1: five nipples across the board. But like, obviously this movie

1480
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 1: made seventy years ago. I will I will also say

1481
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 1: this this is this is one of those movies where

1482
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:59,120
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this is like a play. Like this

1483
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:02,839
Speaker 1: is just like a play. There's nothing visually that exciting

1484
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 1: about it. It's it looks great, but it's really just

1485
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 1: like you watch this movie for the acting and for

1486
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 1: the writing, Like there's nothing going on visually that is

1487
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:14,280
Speaker 1: you know that that exciting, you know even for the time,

1488
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 1: you know, even just differ inflation. This is a fucking talkie,

1489
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,479
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, so you gotta you gotta sit down,

1490
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 1: you gotta be ready for like you know, there aren't

1491
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 1: they're on a lot of like fist fights or action

1492
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 1: sequences or anything in this movie. No, no big gags

1493
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:30,640
Speaker 1: like that. I think you got to go into that

1494
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 1: with that mentality to enjoy it for sure. Who who

1495
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:37,679
Speaker 1: would you like to give your four nipples to one

1496
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:46,600
Speaker 1: to every drink that Margot had on the bumpy ride night? Perfect? Amazing?

1497
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:50,680
Speaker 1: Uh Well, Sara, thank you so much for joining us

1498
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:55,080
Speaker 1: for this incredible discussion. It's been a delight. Thank you

1499
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:57,719
Speaker 1: for letting me talk about all about Eve for so long.

1500
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 1: This made my day. I of talking about this movie,

1501
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 1: I know, and I feel like I'm like, did we

1502
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,840
Speaker 1: even cover everything? I feel like there's it's there's so

1503
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:09,160
Speaker 1: many layers, are so much. Yeah, I feel like we

1504
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:12,080
Speaker 1: kind of only scratch the surface. But thank you so

1505
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:16,040
Speaker 1: much for being here, Sorrow. Where can people follow your stuff?

1506
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:19,240
Speaker 1: Follow you online? All that good stuff? Uh? You can

1507
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:21,599
Speaker 1: go to my website which is hey sorry June dot

1508
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:24,200
Speaker 1: com and you can sign up for an email list

1509
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 1: which is a thing that I will do if people

1510
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:29,600
Speaker 1: sign up for it. It's not a thing, but I

1511
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 1: don't know social media anymore, and I don't know what

1512
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 1: to do. I mean, that's the ultimate act of self love. Yes,

1513
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,160
Speaker 1: for the best. Yeah, you can. You can go to UM.

1514
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 1: If you are on social media, please follow means TV

1515
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:45,839
Speaker 1: sometimes it means Underscore TV. It is a streaming network

1516
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:48,639
Speaker 1: and YouTube channel that I make videos for. And I'm

1517
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:50,479
Speaker 1: going to have a series come out in a couple

1518
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: of months that I'm really excited about. Awesome, Only Jamie's

1519
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 1: in one. Yeah. Yeah, check that out. Everybody check it out.

1520
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:00,439
Speaker 1: He I'm excited. Yeah, Jamie's gonna be in an episode. Yeah.

1521
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:03,640
Speaker 1: I can't believe I forgot that first. We've been in

1522
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:05,880
Speaker 1: here for so long. There was no life before this,

1523
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, honestly, Um, it feels like one million

1524
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 1: years ago that we shot it. All right, Well, thanks

1525
01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 1: for getting on the phone with me. Guys. This is like,

1526
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 1: you know, some much needed social I'm sure you can tell. Yeah,

1527
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:26,880
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. Of course, UM

1528
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:30,920
Speaker 1: come back anytime we need to discuss more older movies.

1529
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:36,679
Speaker 1: You can follow us on social media at Spechtel Cast.

1530
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to our Patreon a k a. Matreon,

1531
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:44,519
Speaker 1: which is at patreon dot com slash specktel Cast. It's

1532
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 1: five dollars a month and it gets you too bonus

1533
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:51,639
Speaker 1: episodes and what better time to consume more content than

1534
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:55,599
Speaker 1: right now during the quarantine. So check us out on

1535
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:59,639
Speaker 1: the Matreon if you're able. It's true, you can get

1536
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:02,120
Speaker 1: our more on t public. We're gonna be doing a

1537
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: lot of fun stuff in the coming months on the

1538
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 1: matrion if you want to join us. And uh we

1539
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:09,880
Speaker 1: we love you so much. I hope this has been

1540
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 1: a sufficiently bumpy podcast. Yeah, hey, everyone, unfastened your seatbelts

1541
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:20,439
Speaker 1: because the Bumpy podcast is over. Bye bye,