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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Carol Marcowig Show on iHeartRadio. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is Josh Holmes. Josh is a partner at

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Speaker 1: calalry LC and co host of the Ruthless podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's so nice to have you.

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Speaker 3: On, Josh, Oh, it's great. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I love your show, I love your twitter feed. I've

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Speaker 1: been a huge fan of yours for many years, and

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Speaker 1: I'm really.

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Speaker 2: Excited to learn more about you.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I know a lot about your

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Speaker 1: background or about how you got into this. You know,

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Speaker 1: a thing of ours. So how did it start for you?

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Speaker 1: How did you get into politics?

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Speaker 3: Well, the feeling is mutual. Obviously, been an admirer of

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Speaker 3: your work a lot over the years. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 3: roundabout way of getting here. For me. I grew up

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Speaker 3: in Minnesota and had, you know, the time of my life,

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Speaker 3: sort of an ideal upbringing in a lot of different ways.

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Speaker 3: But when it was time for college and like professional

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Speaker 3: you know, imaginement at some level, like what is that

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Speaker 3: you do? I went to Arizona State University, and I

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Speaker 3: wish I could tell you that that was an academic decision.

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Speaker 1: Hey that's a party school, right, Yeah, well it Wins Awards.

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Speaker 3: At the time, at the year that I was going,

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Speaker 3: it was number one one. And I applied to two schools,

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Speaker 3: Arizona State and the University of Florida, and Arizona State

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Speaker 3: said yes first, and so that's where I went, which

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Speaker 3: is a long way from Minnesota. And it had absolutely

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Speaker 3: nothing to do with what it is that I wanted

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Speaker 3: to or thought I wanted to do for a living.

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Speaker 2: But which was what what were you thinking?

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Speaker 3: I didn't know. I mean, you know, like so many

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Speaker 3: young people, you just have no idea of what it

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Speaker 3: is that you're good at, you know, And I like,

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Speaker 3: I think this is at some point an indictment of

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Speaker 3: education and education systems. At some point I found nothing

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Speaker 3: that I was super excited about it.

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Speaker 1: No, you haven't used the Patagonora theorem since you learned

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Speaker 1: about it?

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Speaker 3: No, I mean the last math class I took Carol

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Speaker 3: was called math.

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Speaker 1: Same I recently learned as a thing as math dyslexia,

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Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure I have it.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, so I went down there to basically

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Speaker 3: have a good time. But I also, you know, in

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Speaker 3: the process, I had a medical procedure. When I was

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Speaker 3: in my second year. I had brain surgery, believe or not.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I was something less than a good

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Speaker 3: student the first year year and a half that I

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Speaker 3: was at Arizona State. I was more interested in the

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Speaker 3: social scene. But I had this this issue where I

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Speaker 3: had brain surgery. And I remember sitting in the hospital

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Speaker 3: bed where all my friends were coming in one after

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Speaker 3: one just to wish me well and try to cheer

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Speaker 3: me up. And I was there for several weeks and

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Speaker 3: they were talking all about what they were doing and

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Speaker 3: all the career advancement or internships whatever that they were

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Speaker 3: interested in. And I remember at that moment thinking to myself, Man,

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Speaker 3: I got to kind of get this thing together, like

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Speaker 3: I I certainly don't want.

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Speaker 1: Because I had brain surgery. I feel like if you

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Speaker 1: could take it easy at any point, it might be

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Speaker 1: that moment.

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Speaker 3: Well. I think the problem was that I took it

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Speaker 3: easy for a couple a long time before that, and

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Speaker 3: it required a kick in the ass, to be honest

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Speaker 3: with you, it required a observing that other people were

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Speaker 3: moving on with life after high school and you know,

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Speaker 3: your early part of college, and they were focused on something,

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Speaker 3: and so you know, that was kind of the moment

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Speaker 3: I started focusing a little bit on school, and then

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Speaker 3: what did I wanted to do?

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Speaker 2: So what did you want to do?

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Speaker 3: I didn't I still didn't know. I started doing some

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Speaker 3: journalism stuff back then, in large part because I grew

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Speaker 3: up in a family that was really big into news,

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Speaker 3: really big into politics, although it wasn't my politics. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I grew up all the way from Ronald Reagan just

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Speaker 3: being a diehard Republican. Both my parents grew up as Democrats. Wow,

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Speaker 3: but I kind of knew where I was on all

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Speaker 3: of that, and I thought, well, news and information is

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Speaker 3: pretty powerful, and maybe this would be a business that

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Speaker 3: I wanted to go into. But then I spent you know,

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Speaker 3: the first couple of semesters everybody telling me about the

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Speaker 3: history of news and Edward R. Murreaw and everything.

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Speaker 2: Else, and I was like, no, no, this is not

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, this is probably not the thing.

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Speaker 3: So I got out of it. And you know, both

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Speaker 3: my parents were attorneys, and so I thought, you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe pre law maybe something like that. And they had

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Speaker 3: a program at the time at Arizona State that was

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Speaker 3: like a it was like a double minor type thing

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Speaker 3: was called interdisciplinary Studies, whereas justice studies and political science

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Speaker 3: that kind of combined that where they could get a

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Speaker 3: lot of people into law school. And I thought that's

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Speaker 3: what I wanted to do at the time.

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Speaker 2: So did you do it?

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Speaker 3: Nope?

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Speaker 2: I sure did do Where did you go? Tell us

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Speaker 2: about it?

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Speaker 3: I think what happened to me was my dad convinced

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Speaker 3: me at some level to come out to Washington, d C.

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Speaker 3: And just spend an internship program. And there was this

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Speaker 3: Washington semester program through American University that gives you a

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Speaker 3: little entree into the political world. And obviously, I'm from

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Speaker 3: the middle of Minnesota. I have no idea. I've got

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Speaker 3: no connections, My dad's got no connection, my you know,

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Speaker 3: mom's got no connections, nothing connected to Washington, DC. But

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Speaker 3: he's like, why don't you just go out and try it?

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Speaker 3: And I did and I was there for ten days

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Speaker 3: in nine to eleven. Happened Wow, And that fundamentally changed

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Speaker 3: the trajectory of me and what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 3: And I think the rest is history of it.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting that your dad encouraged you to go

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Speaker 1: to d C even though you guys were politically opposed.

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Speaker 2: Like I think about that with my own kids.

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Speaker 1: If my kids end up being libs, am I going

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Speaker 1: to be like, Yeah, you go pursue those dreams, you know,

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Speaker 1: you go.

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Speaker 2: Work for me the matters.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I would be so like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't like dissuade them, But I also don't

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Speaker 1: think i'd be like a big cheerleader for it.

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Speaker 2: But your dad was, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean his politics were changing too, you know.

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Speaker 3: I think I think my parents had a fundamental realignment

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Speaker 3: after nine to eleven, which coincided with me. My brother

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Speaker 3: were in Lower Manhattan and I was at this point

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Speaker 3: an intern in DC, and if you remember nine to eleven,

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Speaker 3: nobody could get a hold of anybody. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 3: it just fundamentally realigned their point of view. But like

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Speaker 3: from a personal experience, it realigned what I wanted to

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Speaker 3: do and where I thought I could make a difference

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Speaker 3: in what I was interested in. And I just really

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Speaker 3: dug in at that point. And you know, everybody's got

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Speaker 3: a different pathway. But when you see something that gives

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Speaker 3: you energy, do you think you're good at do you

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Speaker 3: think you can provide value? For you? Charge forward? Even

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Speaker 3: as a young person, And I never would have imagined

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Speaker 3: that all of that would have led to, you know,

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Speaker 3: my experiences over the last twenty years, but it did.

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Speaker 1: So how did you guys get into cavalry? What was

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Speaker 1: the impetus for that?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a longer story a little bit. And that

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Speaker 3: I got into politics. I did the first time I

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Speaker 3: was in the United States Senate. I couldn't figure out

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Speaker 3: why it was that everyone spent so much time talking

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Speaker 3: about things that were never going to happen, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and it just it frustrated me. And you get that,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure your listeners all can identify with this.

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Speaker 3: You get this component somewhere between when you get into

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Speaker 3: the workforce in your late twenties where you look at

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Speaker 3: things and you're like, well, I can do the job

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Speaker 3: better than the person who's like supposed to be managing me,

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Speaker 3: but I'm not recognized as such. And there's a frustration

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Speaker 3: involved in all of that. And so I kind of

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Speaker 3: switched things up and I wanted to go into communications.

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Speaker 3: I was in policy, and I met Ken Melman, who

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Speaker 3: was then two thousand and four presidential campaign manager for

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Speaker 3: George W. Bush, who brought me into the R and C.

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Speaker 3: At the time. We had a historically bad election in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and six, but I met a whole bunch

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Speaker 3: of people who were just really good people, thoughtful people,

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Speaker 3: and had hilarious, dark humor about it.

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Speaker 2: It's really important, actually.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they could make the worst time not

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Speaker 3: feel like work. And I was attracted to the whole situation.

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Speaker 3: And Melman at some point introduced me to McConnell, who

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Speaker 3: was just becoming leader was elected in the fall of

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Speaker 3: two thousand and six, and McConnell said to Melman, I

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Speaker 3: got to revamp all Republican communications at some level. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if you went into like the Republican conference in the

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Speaker 3: Senate at that time, they were doing like these weird

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Speaker 3: tape like pre tape things. It looked like they I

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Speaker 3: mean I remember walking into one. It was Ted Stevens

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Speaker 3: and they had this whole bumper music there was like

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Speaker 3: did did te today? We bring you the Ted Stevens Show,

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Speaker 3: And then he would talk about the most boring shit

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Speaker 3: on the face of the planet. Yeah, and then they

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Speaker 3: would just take it and ship it back to Alaska.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, this is like we're in a

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Speaker 3: different tile. The Internet is like a real thing at

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Speaker 3: this point and so and mcconnor recognized that too, and

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Speaker 3: so he asked me to come in and help run

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Speaker 3: this new communications unit that he was using. And my

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Speaker 3: promise to him was that I would be there for

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Speaker 3: six months or so to make sure that they got

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Speaker 3: up and running, and then I was going to go

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Speaker 3: do a presidential campaign or something like that. And I

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Speaker 3: remember there was a couple of moments in there that

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Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, this guy doesn't He's not talking

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Speaker 3: about anything that's not going to happen. He only talks

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Speaker 3: about what is going to happen. And it was a

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Speaker 3: funda fundamental reversal from where my whole point of view

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Speaker 3: sent it government was.

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Speaker 2: So what was the next step? What happened then?

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Speaker 3: So we got you know, look, there's a ton of

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Speaker 3: war stories with I would go out and do campaigns,

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Speaker 3: then I'd come back to the Senate and go out

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Speaker 3: and do campaigns and come back to the Senate. But

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Speaker 3: there was a synthesis there where I got to work

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Speaker 3: with really good people. And I think if there's one

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Speaker 3: fundamental takeaway from my career at that stage was when

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Speaker 3: you get good, decent people were doing things for the

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Speaker 3: right reasons that you understand and you job with and

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Speaker 3: you can create and do things bigger than you can

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Speaker 3: do individually. You don't want to lose that. You want

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Speaker 3: to make that a central part of what you're doing.

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Speaker 3: And so all of that ran up until twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 3: where you know, I'd work with John Ashbrook, who was

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Speaker 3: a co host of Ruthless, and I always felt like,

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Speaker 3: if the two of us are in our room, we

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Speaker 3: can figure out any problem, yeah, no matter how bad

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Speaker 3: it is. And there was a number of other people

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Speaker 3: that were involved in all of that, and so we

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Speaker 3: started a company after we got out of government services

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Speaker 3: called Cavalry, where we tried to basically take what it

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Speaker 3: is that we learned over the last seven eight years

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Speaker 3: of government and politics and advocacy and everything else to

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Speaker 3: try to bring it to a larger marketplace. That was,

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Speaker 3: i mean largely operating on a nineteen eighties footprint, right.

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Speaker 3: It was like if you read Gucci gulch of like

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Speaker 3: shoe leather lobbying, that's basically where things were in the

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Speaker 3: early twenty tens. And the world had changed, and so

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Speaker 3: we wanted to get involved in.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right

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Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show.

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Speaker 2: How did Ruthless Start?

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Speaker 3: That was a funnier story. So Johnny and I at

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Speaker 3: that point it worked together, and Duncan and I had

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Speaker 3: worked together since twenty fourteen since that a great campaign

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Speaker 3: cycle we had. And so we were watching the change

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Speaker 3: in media. And it used to be that you would

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Speaker 3: hire a pr agency or do whatever you can to

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Speaker 3: fight like hell to get the quote that tried to

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Speaker 3: refute the premise of a mainstream news studio at some

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Speaker 3: point in like the sixteenth paragraph, and that was like

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Speaker 3: considered to be a win. But we were watching audiences change,

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Speaker 3: and at some level, audiences were becoming larger than the

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Speaker 3: mainstream media outlets themselves, and so we put a lot

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Speaker 3: of thought into it. Meanwhile, we were huge fans of.

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Speaker 1: Smug, comptably Smug, my favorite liberal friend.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly right. So on X, his sense of

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Speaker 3: humor is a reverend sense of humor. His engagement or whatever.

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Speaker 3: In the early days of X like blocked out the sun.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he was everything.

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Speaker 3: He was everything, and one day he asked all of

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Speaker 3: us to go have a happy hour with him out

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Speaker 3: of nowhere. We'd never met him, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I got to see what this guy looks like. I

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Speaker 3: have no clue. It's an anonymous figure. And we went

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Speaker 3: and had the time of our lives and at the

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Speaker 3: end of it, Smug says to me, Hey, I got

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Speaker 3: an idea. Do you mind if I come by the

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Speaker 3: office in the next couple.

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Speaker 2: Of weeks with smugs idea.

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Speaker 3: Huh, Well, here's the funny part of the story. He

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Speaker 3: comes into the office and he's got this memo that

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Speaker 3: outlines what it would be like to have a media

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Speaker 3: company and a podcast that basically uses humor in large

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Speaker 3: part to sort of skewer and make commentary on what's

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Speaker 3: happening with like a leftist media and leftist narratives and whatever.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, we had worked at on one

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Speaker 3: ourselves and presented him with a PowerPoint. It was literally

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Speaker 3: the same idea. Wow, it was literally the same idea.

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Speaker 3: And so at that point, like we knew we had

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Speaker 3: to do something. And then it COVID hits and we're

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Speaker 3: all sitting at home because nobody in DC. It wouldn't

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Speaker 3: allow you to come into DC and uh. We started

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Speaker 3: this happy hour zoom call where we would have a

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Speaker 3: bourbon at the end of the day, talk about whatever,

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Speaker 3: bat on some horses because that was like the only

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Speaker 3: thing that was still going. They're like sports members.

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Speaker 2: Shutting down gambling, that's crazy.

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Speaker 3: Sports were largely canceled, which is what we all do.

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Speaker 3: And so horse racing was like.

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Speaker 2: In baseball, right, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Like horse racing was it. And so you know, we

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Speaker 3: bet on some ponies and talk and we were like, no,

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Speaker 3: this is a good cadence, like maybe we should figure

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Speaker 3: out how to format this. And when we launched Ruthless,

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Speaker 3: it was like a a real flyer, Like I don't

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Speaker 3: think any of us thought it was going to be

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Speaker 3: the thing I thought, you know, we thought it was

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Speaker 3: a one point zero version to try to test the

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Speaker 3: marketplace because none of us knew anything about podcasting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: In fact, like Duncan and Ashbrook were like teaching themselves

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Speaker 3: how to edit audio and get it online. But our

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Speaker 3: third episode, I think was it went to number one

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Speaker 3: on the political charts, and we thought at that point, well,

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Speaker 3: I think we got an obligation to try to do this.

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Speaker 3: And it was a weird period of time. It was

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Speaker 3: the end of twenty twenty. It was between you know,

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Speaker 3: the twenty twenty election and January sixth, where we were

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out how to get a foothold and

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Speaker 3: conservative politics. It was. It was tough, and we were

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Speaker 3: very conflicted about a whole bunch of it. But once

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Speaker 3: we emerged from that, we realized that the real conversation

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Speaker 3: we were having is the conversation everybody else is having

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Speaker 3: at the bar.

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Speaker 1: Right, I don't know what you guys do so well,

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Speaker 1: and if I could just give you some compliments, I

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Speaker 1: think you're so honest. Like, I don't think any of

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Speaker 1: you are fronting anything. And there's a lot of different

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Speaker 1: you know, there's movement in the conservative world, there's changes

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Speaker 1: all the time.

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Speaker 2: But you guys are who you are.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I got my jokes about Smug, but

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Speaker 1: I always thought that about him, that he is who

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Speaker 1: he is and he is not trying to pretend to

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Speaker 1: be anything else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think that's a fair assessment. I

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Speaker 3: mean for Smug and the other three Duncan, Ashbrook and

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Speaker 3: I it's not worth doing. Yeah, if you have to

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Speaker 3: come up with some version of yourself, it is not

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Speaker 3: what it is.

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Speaker 2: You're not You're not adjusting to anything, is what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Like, you know, you do see in the conservative you know,

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Speaker 1: things changed very rapidly, and what was cool a year

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Speaker 1: ago might not be cool today. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: that you guys are like seeking out the next thing.

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Speaker 1: You're not catering to what the next thing might be,

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Speaker 1: or or trying to find an audience, a newer audience

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Speaker 1: or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I mean because we didn't have to do it.

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Speaker 3: It was a luxury. I understand that people who do

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Speaker 3: have to do right and this is all they do

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Speaker 3: for a living, and you know, you want to stay

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Speaker 3: a step ahead of where the electorate is. But you know,

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Speaker 3: we had, you know, two advantages in that regard. One

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Speaker 3: is that our job was to stay ahead of the

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Speaker 3: electorate in a lot of different ways over the previous

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Speaker 3: fifteen years. And the second piece of it was we

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Speaker 3: don't need.

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Speaker 2: To do this right. That's it.

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Speaker 3: If it's not fun, and it's not, we can't laugh

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Speaker 3: back up, man, go do something else.

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Speaker 2: That's what makes it so good. I really, I really

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Speaker 2: believe that we're.

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Speaker 1: Going to take a quick break and be right back

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Speaker 1: on the Carol Marcowitch.

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Speaker 2: Show Switching gears. What do you worry about?

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Speaker 3: Look, I worry about where the information flow is in

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Speaker 3: this country. I counter so many people and you can

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Speaker 3: see this play out live on cable news every day,

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Speaker 3: that exclusively subscribe to one information flow cylinder rather than another.

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Speaker 3: And they never it's always a self rewarding choice right

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Speaker 3: where it's like they've got previous convictions about something anything

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Speaker 3: that sort of fills that cylinder, that's their exclusive view

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Speaker 3: of the strate. And you know, in the era of

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Speaker 3: the Internet and podcasts and all of these other things,

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Speaker 3: it concerns me now the upside of the era that

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Speaker 3: we're in is that you have a choice other than CBS,

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Speaker 3: ABC and NBC right to give you the true story

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Speaker 3: of what's happening. I think we've found out over the

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Speaker 3: last eight years or so they're not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're a bunch of liars.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they're not equipped to do that, which which is fine,

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Speaker 3: But I do I do concern myself a little bit

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Speaker 3: with people self radicalizing. Yeah, And it's not just you know,

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Speaker 3: this isn't a right or center or a left of

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Speaker 3: center thing. It's about your choice of trying to be

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Speaker 3: intellectually curious and understand your neighbor right and and I

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Speaker 3: think too often your choices of what you consume and

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Speaker 3: using information affects your interaction with your neighbor. I hate that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I have a really good friend who works on Capitol

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Speaker 3: Hill who's just telling me on Sunday that they moved

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Speaker 3: into a new house next to somebody and they went up,

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Speaker 3: you know, like a basket of muffins or something, as

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Speaker 3: one does. Sure, it's like, you know, I'm your new neighbor.

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Speaker 3: You know, just wanted to get to know you and

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Speaker 3: this person basically the response was, We've googled you, we

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Speaker 3: know who you are, We've seen your ex account, we

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Speaker 3: know what you do. We're not interested in a relationship.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: That is and you know it's a You're talking about

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Speaker 3: somebody who's a staffer on the Republican side and somebody

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Speaker 3: who's obviously a dogmatic liberal. And I worry about that,

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Speaker 3: ye because I just think like the shared experience in

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Speaker 3: the United States has always been part of our story. Empathy, understanding,

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Speaker 3: and persuasion. Yeah, and if you don't have that in

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Speaker 3: some combination, I worry a lot about where that goes from.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I understand people siloing a little bit, like, Look, I

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Speaker 1: moved to Florida.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be in a red state.

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Speaker 1: I you know, I had never lived anywhere where anybody

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Speaker 1: agreed with me before, So I get the wanting to

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Speaker 1: be in.

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Speaker 2: A little bit of a bubble.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if a liberal moves next door to me,

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Speaker 1: then a liberal moves next door to me, it's not

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not like I can't possibly be friends

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Speaker 1: with you. And I think that, yeah, it's it is

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Speaker 1: really sad that that's where we've gotten. I think that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to just blame the left,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like this happens way more from the

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Speaker 1: left than I don't.

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Speaker 3: It's much more entire Yeah, no question about it. I mean, look,

404
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Speaker 3: I all my conservative friends, this doesn't enter their lexicon,

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Speaker 3: Like whether I can talk to somebody or not talk

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Speaker 3: to somebody doesn't revolve around whether they're a liberal or

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Speaker 3: a conservative.

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Speaker 2: But your friends with smug so.

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Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, he's going to love this.

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Speaker 2: This, this is what it's all about.

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Speaker 3: Actually, But I mean that is increasingly. It started with

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Speaker 3: cancel culture, and it started with me Too movement and

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Speaker 3: all these other pieces of what has become of the

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Speaker 3: left left where they're just willing to just cut off

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Speaker 3: like they don't exist anybody that doesn't agree with them,

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Speaker 3: and I think that's dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Very yeah, because you don't know, it could be it

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Speaker 1: could be your kids again, you know. I think about

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Speaker 1: stuff like that all the time, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: people cut off each other of a politics, especially family, like,

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Speaker 1: don't do that, guys, just don't do it.

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Speaker 3: Dumb.

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Speaker 1: So, looking back on your life and career, what advice

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Speaker 1: would you give your sixteen year old self?

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Speaker 2: Do you still go to the party school? I do

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Speaker 2: absolutely like the parties were fun.

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Speaker 3: Ye, unquestionably. Look, I think everybody's different, and this is

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Speaker 3: I think. You know, when I hear people much more

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Speaker 3: successful than I am try to give standard advice on

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Speaker 3: a question like that too often, it's it's it subscribes

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Speaker 3: to an idea of the we're all the same at

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Speaker 3: every point in our life, and we're not. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I was sixteen. I was a reckless, crazy party kid.

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Speaker 3: I needed a little bit of guidance, but more than anything,

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Speaker 3: I needed something productive to be inspired by. I went

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Speaker 3: through a long period of time there where I just

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Speaker 3: wasn't I didn't know what I wanted to do, but

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Speaker 3: it landed on me. At some point I mentioned that

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Speaker 3: the nine to eleven thing, and it just it created

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Speaker 3: all the energy that I used to be unproductive. I

441
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: understood that I now wanted to do something to be productive.

442
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 3: But there are other kids who you know, they're studying

443
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 3: all day and night in high school and they want

444
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 3: to go do me. But kids, you know, yeah, but

445
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 3: they wanted you know what I mean. And you've met

446
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 3: these people. Some of them are very very successful where

447
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 3: they're just they're very focused on we have to do

448
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 3: X Y Z, I need to get into IVY League

449
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: school and do all these other things. For those people,

450
00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 3: I would say, go have fun. Yeah, like go in less.

451
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: You understand the full panoply of life and what it

452
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 3: has to offer. At some point in life, you're going

453
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 3: to be resentful of what you didn't do unless you

454
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 3: checked it all out. And you know, you hear a

455
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 3: lot about midlife crisises and all these other things, like

456
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: it's going to visit you when you're just monocularly focused

457
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 3: on one thing and you need to be this one

458
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: person and at some point it's not authentic. So you

459
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 3: got to find your authentic self. I will say the

460
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 3: second piece of it is prepare when you're a young

461
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 3: person to go through a decade of your twenties, if

462
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 3: you want to be successful of just grinding, just grinding.

463
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: If my twenty year old still do that, I feel like, no,

464
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 3: maybe not, but it's going to be a problem for them. Yeah,

465
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I know, I think some do. I think

466
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 3: there are a lot of people who do. But what's

467
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: most important is that you understand that the work that

468
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 3: you put into setting the infrastructure for who you become,

469
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 3: both in terms of what you're able to do and

470
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 3: who you are as a person, is so important to

471
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 3: not be the thirty eight year old, forty five year old,

472
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 3: fifty year old who is resentful, angry, and counterproductive and

473
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: is basically going to work every morning just to pay

474
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 3: the bills and get through the day. Right. I mean,

475
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 3: that's where you set the bar. You're building all those things.

476
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 3: If you're demonstrated value between twenty two and thirty five

477
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: is such that everybody sort of recognizes what it is

478
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 3: that you do. When you're thirty eight.

479
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: That's where you want to be.

480
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: It's easier, it's easier, and then your authenticity as a

481
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 3: person can come through and you learn a lot about

482
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 3: yourself in those in those days, because it's not easy.

483
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, I love that I've loved this conversation. I've

484
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: loved getting to know you. I think that everything you

485
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: do is awesome and I love to follow your career

486
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: and wish you.

487
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: All possible success.

488
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 1: Leave us here, you gave us some good advice, but

489
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: leave us here with your best tip for my listeners

490
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: on how they can improve their lives. And maybe maybe

491
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: it is the live authentically and and pursue your passions.

492
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's I think that's a big part

493
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 3: of it. More and more importantly is do not disregard

494
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 3: the people you surround yourself with. Make sure that those

495
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: people are people who lift you up. You're not you're

496
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 3: not associating with him because you think you can get

497
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 3: something out of him. Yeah or right? I mean these

498
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 3: are these are like true blue go to war with

499
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 3: have a great time with people who are just they're

500
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 3: there with you. You can go so far out on

501
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 3: a limb if you look back and you know everybody's

502
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 3: got you, like they're they're going to be there for you,

503
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 3: whether it goes good or whether it goes horribly like

504
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 3: these are these are people who can support you, and

505
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 3: once you do that, you're willing to take risks. Uh

506
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 3: not all of them are going to go well, but

507
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 3: I mean some of them do. And that's going to

508
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 3: ultimately define your professional life in one former fashion.

509
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: I love that.

510
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: And if you haven't found those people, keep looking, don't settle.

511
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 2: Yep, he is Josh Holmes. Check him out on the

512
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: Ruthless Podcast.

513
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Josh, Thank you, Carol,