WEBVTT - BONUS: WarGaming with Matthew Broderick & John Badham

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, Snaffoo listeners, this is your host ed helms. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>back in your feed for a bonus episode of snaffoo.

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<v Speaker 1>Able Archer. At the very heart of it is a

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<v Speaker 1>story about the nuclear conundrum, how the arms race left

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<v Speaker 1>us with no winning options and an unacceptable margin for error,

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<v Speaker 1>and no one summed this up better than the movie Wargames.

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<v Speaker 1>You may recall back in previous episodes, we had great

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<v Speaker 1>conversations with the movie star and National treasure Matthew Broderick,

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<v Speaker 1>as well as its director John Badam. Those interviews were

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<v Speaker 1>so fun and cool, but we just couldn't include all

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<v Speaker 1>of it in those earlier episodes. So as a little treat,

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<v Speaker 1>here's a bonus episode where we dive a little deeper

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<v Speaker 1>into all things wargames. What was what was just like

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<v Speaker 1>a normal day in the life of Matthew Broderick around

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty two eighty three.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, let's see, eighty two. I would be graduating high school,

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<v Speaker 2>which was in New York City, Yes, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>very happy to be done with that, and I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>want to go right to college. I remember going to

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<v Speaker 2>a college counsel a counselor at school who was supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to tell you what schools you should apply to, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>when you're a junior or whatever. And I remember she

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<v Speaker 2>kept mentioning colleges that I had never heard of, so

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<v Speaker 2>that that was a bad sign.

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<v Speaker 1>Your guidance counselor didn't believe in you as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Say no, I left the meeting less than I was not.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought to myself, I'm going to have to find

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<v Speaker 2>something else because nothing that she mentioned not only were

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<v Speaker 2>they at schools that I had heard of, but none

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<v Speaker 2>of them specialized in anything that I was at all

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<v Speaker 2>good at. So I was taking a year to kind

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<v Speaker 2>of see if I could, you know, get a job

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<v Speaker 2>or something acting. And that's why I knew that's what

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to do, but I had no idea if

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<v Speaker 2>I would, you know, be somebody who could do that.

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<v Speaker 2>But so my memory of that time is is trying

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<v Speaker 2>to basically become an actor.

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<v Speaker 1>What was the lead up to the sort of war

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<v Speaker 1>games opportunity.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I started in high school doing a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>plays and I felt I was good at it. Now

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<v Speaker 2>why I felt that, I don't know, but I mean

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<v Speaker 2>I was better at that than at many of my

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<v Speaker 2>other endeavors in high school I'll put it that way,

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<v Speaker 2>so same here. Yeah, I get it. It wasn't that

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<v Speaker 2>I was good at it. It was that I wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>as bad at that as I was at Algebra two.

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<v Speaker 1>There was nothing else to go after, really, that's the truth.

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<v Speaker 2>And I went to HB Studio, which was in the

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<v Speaker 2>village it still is, I think, and I took classes, sure,

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<v Speaker 2>and then my first girlfriend, and so I had a

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<v Speaker 2>kind of a great summer. As I remember, I auditioned

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<v Speaker 2>for everything. And you know, there was this movie called

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<v Speaker 2>The Genius that I auditioned for that I wouldn't let

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<v Speaker 2>me read the script, but it was a you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a boy in a computer. And then I somehow got

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<v Speaker 2>a callback and another callback, and then I read for

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<v Speaker 2>the new casting director and then maybe even a third

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<v Speaker 2>casting director. The Genius became more games, by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>this was its original title. Oh okay, yeah. And then

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<v Speaker 2>somehow I got a play in New York, which was right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, very successful play, and suddenly that everything changed.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it was like, oh, he's the guy from that play,

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<v Speaker 2>you know everybody, and I got a Neil Simon movie

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<v Speaker 2>out of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

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<v Speaker 2>So while I was shooting the Neil Simon movie. They

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<v Speaker 2>wanted me to read again for War Games, and I

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<v Speaker 2>had now read for it, I don't know a million times.

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<v Speaker 1>And had you already read for the for the director

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<v Speaker 1>at the time was Martin Bress. Martin Brest, Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>you'd already read for him.

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<v Speaker 2>I had. So my dad, who was an actress, said

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<v Speaker 2>ask the director, Herbert Ross, of the of the Neil

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<v Speaker 2>Simon movie, ask if they can see some dailies. So

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<v Speaker 2>I somehow had the nerve to ask my agent, and

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<v Speaker 2>Herbert Ross, who was directing the Neil Simon movie, was like, sure, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 2>and he ran. He picked out some nice scenes of

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<v Speaker 2>mine and showed it to Marty Breast. You know, they

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<v Speaker 2>screened it in those days. It wasn't like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>click on it. It was they came and watched it

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<v Speaker 2>at you know, the studio.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's really cool. He really believed in.

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<v Speaker 2>You and made the effort, you know, and so you

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<v Speaker 2>need all that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's really cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And so so finally you get the part. Had you

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<v Speaker 1>read the full script at this point or were you

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<v Speaker 1>just reading sides or did you know a lot about

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<v Speaker 1>what the movie was.

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<v Speaker 2>Around that time? I think I finally was allowed to

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<v Speaker 2>read the whole thing. It was really a very fun read.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it was a you just really wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>know how it was going to end up. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't the most like intense acting part or something,

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<v Speaker 2>but I just thought, this is a thriller, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I loved the story. The only you know, my father

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<v Speaker 2>was dying and actually died during it.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I don't think of that movie without that.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>To tell you the truth, it's a little almost like

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<v Speaker 2>a surreal memory to me because I was, on the

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<v Speaker 2>one hand, so pleased with myself and you know, excited

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<v Speaker 2>about what had happened to me, and also at the

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<v Speaker 2>same time the absolute opposite. And you guys were close,

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<v Speaker 2>very close, and you know, he'd been sick for I

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<v Speaker 2>knew that it was coming. It wasn't like that, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know, there's no way to not. You know, he

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<v Speaker 2>died during it, and I was shooting one or two

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<v Speaker 2>days later, I think, wow, you know, I didn't really

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<v Speaker 2>want anybody to say how are you or anything, and

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<v Speaker 2>they and they didn't, you know, and we went on

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<v Speaker 2>with I'm very glad I had it. It probably saved

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<v Speaker 2>my life.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so fascinating. I was in I was shooting the

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<v Speaker 1>office when my dad passed. Oh really and went back

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<v Speaker 1>and it was the same thing. I was so grateful

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<v Speaker 1>to have.

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<v Speaker 2>That something to put your mind on for a while, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so all the excitement of this first experience.

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<v Speaker 1>He must have been so proud that you got this opportunity.

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<v Speaker 2>He was definitely so.

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<v Speaker 1>Then even the release of the movie is so bittersweet. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>is not being there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely, you know, but I like to think he

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<v Speaker 2>was glad to see that he had that he left

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<v Speaker 2>while I had some hope of a career sure, or

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<v Speaker 2>you know, make a living. And truthfully, it was such

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<v Speaker 2>a break from that that I didn't feel it at work,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. I just felt the movie. So I you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I threw myself into it, and I love the story, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, Yeah, it really is. It's like kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>perfect screenplay as a thriller with comedic elements, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>never a wasted scene or a dull moment. Did it

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<v Speaker 1>change a lot from those early drafts to what it

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<v Speaker 1>eventually was?

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<v Speaker 4>It?

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<v Speaker 2>Did? I mean, are you talking to John Badam too?

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<v Speaker 5>In the summer of nineteen eighty two, I get a

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<v Speaker 5>call from my agent at the time Lee Rosenberg, who said,

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<v Speaker 5>there's this project over at United Artists that they're in

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<v Speaker 5>trouble with the director, and they wonder if you would

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<v Speaker 5>take a look at it. And I'm recommending that you

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<v Speaker 5>don't take a look at it, because if they're in

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<v Speaker 5>trouble with the director, that means the whole project is troubled.

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<v Speaker 5>So you better stay away from it. But I have

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<v Speaker 5>to make the call and tell you about it. And

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<v Speaker 5>I replied to him, I said, but Lee, what if

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<v Speaker 5>the script is any good? So we read it and

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<v Speaker 5>I'm going, oh my god, I am so lucky to

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<v Speaker 5>be reading this script. This script is wonderful. I told

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<v Speaker 5>that to Leonard and I said, let me think about

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<v Speaker 5>it and I'll get back to you. He said, well,

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<v Speaker 5>we're shooting every day, so you better be fast about this.

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<v Speaker 5>So I started driving home and I got about three

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<v Speaker 5>blocks from MGM and I stomped on the brakes. Now

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<v Speaker 5>this is before cell phones, and I had to find

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<v Speaker 5>a phone booth. And I said, Leonard, I know what

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<v Speaker 5>it is. These actors, these characters aren't having any fun.

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<v Speaker 5>The scene that you showed me was Matthew Broderick showing

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<v Speaker 5>Ali Sheety how he could change her grades at school

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<v Speaker 5>on the school computer. These actors are playing it like

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<v Speaker 5>they're going to blow up the White House, and instead,

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<v Speaker 5>if I could change your girl's grades in my high school,

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<v Speaker 5>I would be peeing in my pants with excitement. This

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<v Speaker 5>would be the most fun thing. I would be so

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<v Speaker 5>thrilled and scared and excited about it. I said, I

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<v Speaker 5>think that's where the director has gone off track. I mean,

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<v Speaker 5>he was on schedule and from what I could what

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<v Speaker 5>I could understand, everything had been beautifully prepared. But suddenly

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<v Speaker 5>they were getting a very dark film. So I said, well,

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<v Speaker 5>if I come on, that's that's what I would do.

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<v Speaker 5>I would make make those alterations, make it, make it funny.

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<v Speaker 5>So they said, well, when can you start.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't believe I'd gotten the job. And then the

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<v Speaker 2>director got fired. It was pretty sure I was out too, by.

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<v Speaker 1>The way, right, sure, there's no way that There's no

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<v Speaker 1>way a director gets fired and the lead actor isn't

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<v Speaker 1>like I probably wasn't doing the right thing either.

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<v Speaker 2>So wait a minute, they're throwing out two weeks of

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<v Speaker 2>work I just did. That's interesting. And and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>John Badam came and basically fired absolutely everybody but kept

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<v Speaker 2>to me and Ali Cheety and one or two others.

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<v Speaker 2>But he was our first meeting with John Badam. He

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<v Speaker 2>was like, I'm going to keep both of you.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, that was a good choice, but I also wanted

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<v Speaker 5>the ability to replace anybody that I thought maybe was

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<v Speaker 5>not cast as best they could be, So we made

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<v Speaker 5>a couple of changes in the secondary cast our general

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<v Speaker 5>of Norad. We recast him and one or two other characters.

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<v Speaker 5>But Ali Sheety and Matthew Broderick were wonderful. I mean

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<v Speaker 5>they were terrific. For example, the scene that where Matthew

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<v Speaker 5>takes her into his bedroom and shows her how it

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<v Speaker 5>can change the grade. We decided that we needed to

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<v Speaker 5>reshoot that because, as we said earlier, they were not

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<v Speaker 5>having any fun, and I knew that the scene needed

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<v Speaker 5>to be much much better than what had been originally shot,

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<v Speaker 5>not just a little bit better. And so we did

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<v Speaker 5>a few takes and they were stiff as boards. These

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<v Speaker 5>two poor actors were so scared that they too were

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<v Speaker 5>going to be acted out of the movie and get fired.

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<v Speaker 5>We're stiff as they could be, and so I'm starting

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<v Speaker 5>to try to loosen them up to entertain them. I'm

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<v Speaker 5>running in. I'm making bad dad jokes, which is the

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<v Speaker 5>only kind of oaks I know how to make, and

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<v Speaker 5>being silly. And after about nine or ten takes, I

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<v Speaker 5>called a halt to everything, and I said, okay, all right,

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<v Speaker 5>we're going to take a little bit of a break

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<v Speaker 5>here for a minute, and Matthew and Ally you come

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<v Speaker 5>with me. And I took them outside the stage at MGM,

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<v Speaker 5>which is a wonderful big old movie lot, and I said,

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<v Speaker 5>what we're going to do here is we're going to

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<v Speaker 5>run around, have a race around the soundstage the outside,

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<v Speaker 5>and the last person back has to sing a song

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<v Speaker 5>in front of the crew. And they went what I said, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 5>here we go. Okay, let's go, and we ran and

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<v Speaker 5>ran and ran and ran, and of course I was

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<v Speaker 5>the last person back. I was a good twenty years

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<v Speaker 5>older than them, and so now I had to sing

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<v Speaker 5>a song in front of the crew, which was the

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<v Speaker 5>dumbest song I could think of, which was something called

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<v Speaker 5>The Happy Wanderer about a guy who's wandering through the

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<v Speaker 5>Alps and going.

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<v Speaker 6>Hold it, hold it rop. Okay, Okay, we got through that. Okay,

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<v Speaker 6>let's go for a take.

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<v Speaker 2>Those your grades stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think that I deserved it.

0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:28.280
<v Speaker 4>Do you.

0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.439
<v Speaker 3>You can't do that already done?

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:36.800
<v Speaker 5>That was the one that we printed.

0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 5>Just you know, you do what you can to loosen

0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.960
<v Speaker 5>people up and get them, get them there, and to

0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.320
<v Speaker 5>let them know that it's okay to have fun. Uh.

0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.320
<v Speaker 5>And and this is we're not curing cancer here, We're

0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:53.280
<v Speaker 5>just making a movie.

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.720
<v Speaker 2>The first day, first cup of date shooting with John Badam,

0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.200
<v Speaker 2>I was like, he's so different than Martin Breast too.

0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:01.040
<v Speaker 4>Uh huh.

0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.280
<v Speaker 2>Martin Bess was very methody and actory, you know, and

0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.360
<v Speaker 2>you should feel a certain way and get into it.

0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.480
<v Speaker 2>And so now I'm doing a scene and I finished

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the scene, you know, doing something on the computer, and

0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 2>I hear a voice from from behind the camera. John

0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Badam says, and smile, smile. Will you smile? Like he

0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:24.000
<v Speaker 2>was telling me what face to me?

0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.520
<v Speaker 1>And you're like, that's not acting. Smile.

0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Martin Best never did that. But yeah, but sure enough

0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 2>I smiled. You know, I did everything, and thank god

0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:37.720
<v Speaker 2>he kept me, he kept me around.

0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.560
<v Speaker 1>That's so funny. Do you That's that actually raises an

0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:48.000
<v Speaker 1>interesting question separate from all this. Yeah, do you do

0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 1>you like a director who is very literal, like that,

0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.440
<v Speaker 1>or do you prefer someone who's a little more kind

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 1>of like in the emotion of it and in the

0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 1>sort of like, yeah, do you have a strong.

0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Preference, Well, you know, my preference is somebody who's like

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 2>I can understand and who I think is good. I

0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.800
<v Speaker 2>don't know how to but like, I don't mind people

0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.560
<v Speaker 2>who I know you're not supposed to say smile, but

0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.440
<v Speaker 2>if it's if it's somebody good and as John Batham

0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:22.040
<v Speaker 2>is and and in a way that's they might as

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.080
<v Speaker 2>well just say it. Because I see directors sometimes bend over.

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you feel this way too. Of course, you

0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:29.880
<v Speaker 2>know you can see their brain trying to say. I know,

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm not supposed to tell them to be angry or.

0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Happy or give them a line reading or exactly.

0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.440
<v Speaker 2>How many words can I use to make a line reading?

0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Like just tell me the line ate.

0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. I'm just saying I'm very practical that way.

0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.080
<v Speaker 1>And I tell directors sometimes like I can feel you

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 1>dancing around, that's just tell me what you want, like, definitely,

0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.280
<v Speaker 1>I love I love a mechanical direction like me too,

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.000
<v Speaker 1>like hold your arm higher, okay, sure, yeah.

0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well then I can I can understand what they mean,

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.520
<v Speaker 2>and then I can I can turn it into actory

0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.320
<v Speaker 2>terms if I want or not. Yeah, and see I

0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.720
<v Speaker 2>even sometimes and this doesn't come up so well. But

0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll sometimes tell a director who's really hemming and allying,

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>why don't you show me which I like to make

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 2>them feel horrible and uncomfortable and act this out for me.

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.240
<v Speaker 2>You play me, Yeah, I'll read the other part. You

0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:21.360
<v Speaker 2>show me what you want. If they're being really irritating,

0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I'll do that.

0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 1>That's great.

0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:26.080
<v Speaker 2>At least I know exactly what they want, all right.

0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.600
<v Speaker 1>So the so the movie production is starting. Now it's

0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.000
<v Speaker 1>you and Ali Sheety and this incredible cast Barry Corbin

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Dabney Coleman, who I love.

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and Ben Barry Corbman.

0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:39.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:44.480
<v Speaker 1>And they're both just it's like the cowboy and the nerd,

0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and they're just they're such a perfect conflict.

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.320
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't trust this overgrown pile of microchips and if

0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:52.400
<v Speaker 2>further like to throw it.

0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:54.560
<v Speaker 4>And I don't know if you want to trust the

0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:59.320
<v Speaker 4>safety of our country to some silicombe dial In general,

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 4>nobody is talking about and trusting the safety of the

0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:03.160
<v Speaker 4>nation to a machine.

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:07.560
<v Speaker 1>For God's sake, And what's compelling about those two characters

0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 1>that they is that they really represent two kind of

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.879
<v Speaker 1>competing points of view very literally in the story, but

0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.760
<v Speaker 1>I think also kind of culturally, which is, do we

0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.879
<v Speaker 1>trust technology or do we trust gut r and Dabney's

0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Dabney Coleman is saying, let's trust Whopper the computer to

0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:32.120
<v Speaker 1>to to launch missiles. And Barry Corbin is you know,

0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:38.879
<v Speaker 1>chewing his redman chewing tobacco and saying, uh, no way, man,

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.240
<v Speaker 1>guy can't take the human out of it. You gotta

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:42.120
<v Speaker 1>trust humans.

0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.600
<v Speaker 2>But they mess up at the beginning, right, that's in

0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.639
<v Speaker 2>the missile silo.

0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.520
<v Speaker 1>Right, the humans mess up in the in the opening, Yeah,

0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.439
<v Speaker 1>which is a wild entry to the film, and it

0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 1>sets the stage for like mistrusting humans.

0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 5>Put your hand on the key, serve launch.

0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Sure, we are at locks.

0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:08.320
<v Speaker 3>Turn your keys. Sorry, We're so sorry. Turn your key, sir.

0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.119
<v Speaker 5>We've had men in these silos since before any of

0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:13.639
<v Speaker 5>you were watching Howdy Doty.

0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.240
<v Speaker 3>For myself, I sleep pretty well at night.

0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.000
<v Speaker 5>No one knows boys are down there.

0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 4>General, we all know they're fine, man, But in a

0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.360
<v Speaker 4>nuclear war, we can't afford to have our missiles lying dormant.

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.240
<v Speaker 4>In those silos because those men refuse to turn the

0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.160
<v Speaker 4>keys when the computers tell them to.

0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Turn your key.

0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, turn your key, that whole thing. I was watching

0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.440
<v Speaker 1>the movie with my wife a couple of nights ago.

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.240
<v Speaker 1>She just goes, man, there were a lot of buttons

0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:51.840
<v Speaker 1>in the eighties. It's true, walls buttons and like everything.

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.720
<v Speaker 1>It's like, okay, ignite or you know, uh, switch operation too.

0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like thirty.

0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Buttons to do one thing. Yeah, there's some part of

0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.080
<v Speaker 1>our inner child that just wants to click all those

0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:05.159
<v Speaker 1>yeah buttons.

0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now it's just these damn touch screens.

0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:12.919
<v Speaker 1>I have one quibble with the movie that I just

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.720
<v Speaker 1>have to I have to mention, which is that you're

0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.720
<v Speaker 1>very disappointingly bad at Galaga.

0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Now, I mean, you're okay, but you know, I understand.

0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:26.159
<v Speaker 4>I do.

0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.320
<v Speaker 2>I must in my defense tell you. You know, they edit

0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:35.640
<v Speaker 2>it so like in yeah, pressure whatever, there wasn't enough

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:40.360
<v Speaker 2>film in the camera if I had played at my best, because.

0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I guess so, okay, I'll take your work for it,

0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.120
<v Speaker 1>but I will say, like to be able to work

0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.840
<v Speaker 1>on a movie where the whole thing is like you're

0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.440
<v Speaker 1>gonna get to play Galaga for free, for as long

0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:51.639
<v Speaker 1>as we're shooting this scene.

0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:54.360
<v Speaker 2>They gave me a Gallica machine. I'm not kidding. Oh,

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:56.679
<v Speaker 2>Marty Brest was like, you should get good at Gallagha,

0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:00.120
<v Speaker 2>we'll send one over. Oh wow, So my little apart

0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.520
<v Speaker 2>men in Santa Monica had a Galaga in it.

0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's amazing, which I could.

0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:06.000
<v Speaker 2>I was so excited by that.

0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:17.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's that's huge.

0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:23.360
<v Speaker 1>So what are some of your memories about culture at

0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:27.320
<v Speaker 1>that time, you know, in particular some of the political

0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:32.240
<v Speaker 1>landscape afoot Reagan as president. How were you feeling any of.

0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:32.920
<v Speaker 3>The Cold War?

0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Well? I think everybody felt it a little when I remember,

0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, Reagan saying he's going to put weapons in

0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:47.520
<v Speaker 2>space and people saying that was going to get everybody killed, and.

0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.119
<v Speaker 1>That really pissed off the Russians.

0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so it was scary to read about all these

0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, every time we would add a missile system,

0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 2>they would add one or and vice versa. And it

0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:03.320
<v Speaker 2>was you could read articles that would say, there's absolutely

0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 2>no way this can end except for everybody being blown

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:07.840
<v Speaker 2>up pretty soon.

0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:09.879
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Mutual destruction.

0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, mad right. I had a book with pictures that

0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:17.520
<v Speaker 2>it called mad I think mutual assured destruction. And that

0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.679
<v Speaker 2>book proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that we

0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:22.720
<v Speaker 2>had about five years as a planet.

0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:34.320
<v Speaker 5>Ever since the nineteen sixties, I would say, even maybe

0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 5>the late nineteen fifties, we were seeing this constant build

0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:45.320
<v Speaker 5>up of nuclear facilities and nuclear warheads. I remember I

0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:49.920
<v Speaker 5>was in grammar school after World War Two, and we had,

0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:55.160
<v Speaker 5>you know, constant drills for what would happen with nuclear explosions.

0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.440
<v Speaker 5>You know, I'm sure you've heard the phrase duck and cover.

0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.359
<v Speaker 5>You know, we're going to duck under our little third

0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.320
<v Speaker 5>grader desks, and that was going to save us from

0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.080
<v Speaker 5>the nuclear bomb. And you knew that it was going

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 5>to fly off the handle in some crazy way, but

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.800
<v Speaker 5>nobody was doing anything about it. And of course this

0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:20.600
<v Speaker 5>is before Gorbachev took down the wall and so on. Basically,

0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:24.560
<v Speaker 5>it was a scary kind of world where often your

0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:29.000
<v Speaker 5>reaction was to, like the Ostrich, bury your head in

0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 5>the sand and just hope to hell it went away

0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.920
<v Speaker 5>without blowing up the planet. The military has thought up

0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:40.240
<v Speaker 5>hundreds of different scenarios of possible ways that things could

0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.159
<v Speaker 5>happen as they're trying to get around this problem of

0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:47.359
<v Speaker 5>how do you make the right decision. It's just way

0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:51.240
<v Speaker 5>too complicated a problem for us to be cleanly and

0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:52.359
<v Speaker 5>easily dealing with.

0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Originally it had an ending where the bomb went off,

0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:06.000
<v Speaker 2>I believe. Oh wow, Like I remember, there's some scene

0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:07.760
<v Speaker 2>where I'm looking in a mirror. At the very end,

0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:10.959
<v Speaker 2>I wake up. I'm home. It's all over, you know,

0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:14.320
<v Speaker 2>And I get up and brushing my teeth or something,

0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:16.359
<v Speaker 2>and there's a flash of light and all the skin

0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:22.080
<v Speaker 2>burns off of my face or something. What yep, And

0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:23.160
<v Speaker 2>then I wake up.

0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:24.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay.

0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:27.120
<v Speaker 2>So it's just a little nightmare that David Lightman had

0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:30.480
<v Speaker 2>after going through this whole thing, right, which you know,

0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:33.200
<v Speaker 2>wisely they when they edited, they were like, no, it's

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:34.720
<v Speaker 2>over in that war room.

0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:44.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, greetings, Professor Falcon, Hello, Joshua James.

0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Game.

0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:51.720
<v Speaker 5>The only winning mood is not today. It was the

0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:57.000
<v Speaker 5>closest thing to an anti war message that we had

0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:00.760
<v Speaker 5>because we didn't want to make it a big preachy movie.

0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:03.720
<v Speaker 5>It was meant to be something that was very entertaining,

0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:08.240
<v Speaker 5>but that could at the very end zing you with

0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.920
<v Speaker 5>something that you go, oh, yes, yes, we.

0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Did want it to be a warning to some degree. Yeah,

0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:20.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, everybody there was, like everybody else scared of

0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:21.160
<v Speaker 2>nuclear war.

0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:23.760
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, it's such a backdrop for the whole thing.

0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.760
<v Speaker 1>The air you're breathing was fear, yes, fear of technology,

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:30.600
<v Speaker 1>fear of nuclear annihilation, and this movie kind of like

0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:34.680
<v Speaker 1>really hits both the technology and the weapons.

0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:37.439
<v Speaker 2>Definitely, And now that I think of it, some people

0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:41.560
<v Speaker 2>were into disarmament and some were not, so we were.

0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:44.040
<v Speaker 2>Everybody who made that movie, I think was very on

0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:47.680
<v Speaker 2>the side of disarmament. You know, they wanted they wanted

0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.359
<v Speaker 2>Reagan and GARBAGEV to make a deal. So if it

0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:53.760
<v Speaker 2>has a political point of view, I'm sure it's that

0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:57.400
<v Speaker 2>they everybody there wanted it to make deals with Russia

0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:00.120
<v Speaker 2>and not just keep building weapons.

0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:03.360
<v Speaker 1>A great magic trick that way, because it's it's unbelievably

0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:08.239
<v Speaker 1>entertaining and fun to watch, but it also, you know,

0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:12.280
<v Speaker 1>from a sort of like commentary standpoint, allows you to

0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:16.560
<v Speaker 1>play out the fantasy of nuclear annihilation and hopefully scare

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:19.119
<v Speaker 1>you a little bit or scare the political establishment a

0:25:19.119 --> 0:25:20.640
<v Speaker 1>little bit into doing something.

0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:36.280
<v Speaker 5>When the film actually came out, it definitely had an influence,

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:39.720
<v Speaker 5>and thank goodness, it was a It was a big

0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:43.240
<v Speaker 5>success at the box office. So we knew that our

0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:47.399
<v Speaker 5>film was being seen by many, many people, and especially

0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 5>by an audience of young people who could identify with

0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:57.679
<v Speaker 5>Matthew and ally remember the time that we're in nobody

0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:02.040
<v Speaker 5>understood computers very much. Certainly adults did not. The kids

0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:06.119
<v Speaker 5>were understanding it and we're getting it right away, and

0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:10.120
<v Speaker 5>the adults were thinking, well, that's stupid. No little kid

0:26:10.160 --> 0:26:14.800
<v Speaker 5>could do this. There were many articles in different newspapers

0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:18.880
<v Speaker 5>that said, this is complete, blowney, none of this could

0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:24.280
<v Speaker 5>possibly happen, this is all ridiculous. That was part of

0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:27.800
<v Speaker 5>the part of the drama and the humor of it.

0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:34.679
<v Speaker 5>That it was not some evil Russian or evil Germanic force.

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:37.480
<v Speaker 5>God knows what it could be, but it was just

0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:42.720
<v Speaker 5>just a little kid being playful and playing without motive equipment. Well,

0:26:42.800 --> 0:26:46.880
<v Speaker 5>the wonderful thing about movies is you can often look

0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:51.560
<v Speaker 5>beyond what's possible, and sometimes sometimes you can be spot

0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:56.760
<v Speaker 5>on with it and in seeing things that could happen

0:26:57.320 --> 0:27:00.640
<v Speaker 5>in the future. Well, it wasn't more than a couple

0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:04.560
<v Speaker 5>of weeks after the movie that was released. Uh, Suddenly,

0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:11.720
<v Speaker 5>from I believe Minnesota, three guys broke into Norad or

0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:16.800
<v Speaker 5>they they broke into the Defense Department's computer. Our whole

0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:20.440
<v Speaker 5>defense system was much more fragile and much more vulnerable

0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 5>than anybody wanted to announce. And here are young kids,

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.439
<v Speaker 5>maybe inspired by our movie or just maybe because they

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:32.720
<v Speaker 5>were out there all along, that they were actually, you know,

0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:38.240
<v Speaker 5>breaking breaking into places. When Reagan came into office, we

0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:41.159
<v Speaker 5>had we had made the film. And one of the

0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:45.480
<v Speaker 5>first things that he happened to do when he was

0:27:45.520 --> 0:27:49.399
<v Speaker 5>in office was to run more games for He and

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:54.000
<v Speaker 5>Nancy at the at the White House one night, and

0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:58.520
<v Speaker 5>and he started talking about how we how we could

0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:04.000
<v Speaker 5>fight these nuclear problems with our Star Wars defense and

0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:06.480
<v Speaker 5>he started talking about that, and they said, well, this

0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:10.600
<v Speaker 5>is ridiculous. We don't have technology that would be anything

0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:13.719
<v Speaker 5>like that. He said, yes, we do. Nancy and I

0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.200
<v Speaker 5>saw this film the other night, war Games, and they

0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:24.120
<v Speaker 5>have that kind of technology. Well, Mommy and I were

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:28.479
<v Speaker 5>watching this movie, War Games, and we were thinking that

0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 5>we could do the same thing. Mommy was very happy

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:34.160
<v Speaker 5>about seeing it.

0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Are you aware that Ronald Reagan screened the movie right

0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 1>after it came out. No, this is an amazing story.

0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:49.920
<v Speaker 1>The New York Times did a piece on this bunch

0:28:49.920 --> 0:28:54.920
<v Speaker 1>of years ago. Ronald Reagan watched it just you know,

0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:58.680
<v Speaker 1>kicking back with Nancy at Camp David, just watching a

0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:02.600
<v Speaker 1>pop culture movie. It rattled him so badly that he called,

0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:06.960
<v Speaker 1>in his defense establishment, all the you know, the big

0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:11.520
<v Speaker 1>wigs into the White House, and he said, is this possible?

0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Is it possible that some rogue kid could or worse,

0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:20.440
<v Speaker 1>like a Russian actor penetrate our computer systems and our

0:29:20.480 --> 0:29:26.640
<v Speaker 1>missile systems and so forth. And the takeaway was, yeah,

0:29:26.680 --> 0:29:28.800
<v Speaker 1>it's a little more possible than any of us would

0:29:28.880 --> 0:29:33.480
<v Speaker 1>like to admit. And so that precipitated some of the

0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:39.480
<v Speaker 1>very first cybersecurity policy, you know, from a national defense standpoint.

0:29:39.560 --> 0:29:43.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's very Yeah, you're welcome, everybody.

0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, Thank you, Thank you, Matthew. Special thanks to Matthew

0:29:50.200 --> 0:29:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Broderick and John Batham for joining us to talk all

0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:57.440
<v Speaker 1>things war games. Next week we have another bonus episode

0:29:57.640 --> 0:30:01.760
<v Speaker 1>where I interview a Cold War cage be agent, So

0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:04.440
<v Speaker 1>check back for that. You're not gonna want to miss it.

0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:10.160
<v Speaker 1>Snap Who is a production of iHeartRadio, Film, Nation Entertainment,

0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:13.880
<v Speaker 1>and Pacific Electric Picture Company in association with Gilded Audio.

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:18.719
<v Speaker 1>It's executive produced by me Ed Helms, Milan Papelka, Mike Falbo,

0:30:18.840 --> 0:30:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Andy Chuck, and Whitney Donaldson. Our lead producers are Sarah

0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:26.160
<v Speaker 1>Joyner and Alyssa Martino. Our producer is Carl Nellis. Associate

0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:29.880
<v Speaker 1>producer Tory Smith. This bonus episode was edited by Carl

0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Nellis and Dustin Brown. Our senior editor is Jeffrey Lewis.

0:30:33.800 --> 0:30:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Olivia Canny is our production assistant. Our creative executive is

0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Brett Harris. Engineering and technical direction by Nick Dooley. Special

0:30:41.280 --> 0:30:43.600
<v Speaker 1>thanks to Alison Cohen and Matt Aisenstadt.