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Speaker 1: A Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hi, we're back, And just to remind people, if you

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Speaker 2: haven't listened to the episode yesterday, you probably won't pick

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Speaker 2: up what's going on today. So I suggest starting there

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Speaker 2: as we commence on our second part of the discussion

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Speaker 2: about the EUS border. Today, we're going to discuss the

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Speaker 2: EU's external border and what that means for migrants. We'll

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Speaker 2: pick up with Mick and Rose and we'll start off

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Speaker 2: more or less where we left off yesterday. Like you

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Speaker 2: can map, and I'm not the first one to have

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Speaker 2: made these maps, but you can look at humane borders

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Speaker 2: in Arizona, and then you can look at EFF's map

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Speaker 2: of fixed and mobile towers and you can see people.

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Speaker 2: And again this is something I'm more familiar with, and

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Speaker 2: I'd like to be people dying in the shade of

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Speaker 2: the surveillance towers, without help, without water, without the very

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Speaker 2: minor things that it would take for them not to

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Speaker 2: have died. And so yeah, this provides justification. It provides

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Speaker 2: a massive outlet for the post War on Terror like

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Speaker 2: military industrial complex to continue to make its money, and

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Speaker 2: to continue to make its money through innocent people dying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was either abolish Frontex or the

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Speaker 3: transnational institutes. I got some hands on some literature they

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Speaker 3: were spreading, and there is a direct you can draw

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Speaker 3: a direct line between like the end of the Cold

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Speaker 3: War in the nineties, with military industrial complex having to

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Speaker 3: fight new ways to sell their products to states. And

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Speaker 3: that's also why the border keeps getting more and more militarized,

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Speaker 3: because it is the one point where they can still

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Speaker 3: sell a lot of things without their having to be

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Speaker 3: a war.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's like a very serious lobby of companies who

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Speaker 4: just want to make money out of making our borders deadly,

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Speaker 4: and they're really successful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think they just want to make money and

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Speaker 2: they don't care if they make our borders deadly. The

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Speaker 2: end goal is always profit for them, right like, and

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Speaker 2: everything else is consequent to that.

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Speaker 3: Think of the stockholders they have to live as well.

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Speaker 3: What I personally find most troubling is this extension of

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Speaker 3: the Iron border into non European countries. So the EU

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Speaker 3: is making deals with countries in which for the in

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Speaker 3: exchange for large sums of money that those countries are

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Speaker 3: now containing, or stopping migrants and refugees from ever leaving

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Speaker 3: the Middle East Africa. Like Rose said earlier, The Turkey

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Speaker 3: deal is essentially a political deal between the EU and

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Speaker 3: Turkey for Turkey to hold a portion of Syrian refugees

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Speaker 3: over within their border to stop them from coming into Europe.

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Speaker 3: And I think we paid a few billion, more than

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Speaker 3: a few billion probably for Turkey to do that. So

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Speaker 3: the most prominent of these deals are, as I said, Turkey,

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Speaker 3: but also Tunisia and Libya. We're essentially outsourcing the abuse

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Speaker 3: and human rights violations to countries that are outside the

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Speaker 3: scope of our media, who have regimes that we would

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Speaker 3: declare dictatorships and autocracies. In the case of Libya, it's

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Speaker 3: even like rebels and warlords being funded with EU taxpayer money. Today,

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Speaker 3: the EUPAC with Libya has given rise to a full

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Speaker 3: fledged slave market run by cold blooded human traffickers who,

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Speaker 3: incentivized by the EU's crackdown on irregular migration and the

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Speaker 3: resulting business downturn of would be profitable passengers, are now

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Speaker 3: auctioning economic migrants and refugees as slaves. Yeah, we're just

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Speaker 3: doing slavery with extra steps now. So to make it

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Speaker 3: inescapably clear how bad the situation is, I'm now going

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Speaker 3: to quote from an Amnesty International article from twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 3: Three Police Shada al Zawa Center is a facility facility

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Speaker 3: which was previously run by a non affiliated militia and

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Speaker 3: was recently integrated under the DCIM and designated for people

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Speaker 3: in vulnerable situations. A DCIM is an acronym for Libya's

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Speaker 3: Directorate for Combating Illegal Migration. It's essentially a department of

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Speaker 3: their Interior Ministry. Former detainees from that facility said that

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Speaker 3: guards raped women and some were cohoersed into sex in

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Speaker 3: exchange for their release or for essentials such as clean

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Speaker 3: water grace. A pseudonym said she was heavily beaten for

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Speaker 3: refusing to comply with such a demand. I told the

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Speaker 3: guard no. He used the gun to knock me back.

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Speaker 3: He used a letter soldier's shoe to kick me from

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Speaker 3: my waist. Two young women at the facility attempted to

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Speaker 3: commit suicide as a result of such abuse. Three women

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Speaker 3: also said that two babies detained with their mothers after

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Speaker 3: an attempted sea crossing had died in early twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: one after guards refused to transfer them to a hospital

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Speaker 3: for a critical medical treatment, and the International Report documents

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Speaker 3: similar patterns of human rights violations including severe beatings, sexual violence, extortion,

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Speaker 3: force labor, and in human conditions across seven DCIM centers

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Speaker 3: in Libya. In Abuisa Center in the city of al

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Speaker 3: Zayadtnes reported being deprived of nutritious food to the point

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Speaker 3: of starvation end growth.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Libya is is just on a completely different level.

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Speaker 4: And we have systematic torture on almost all border crossings

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Speaker 4: by European border guards, but Libya just manages to do

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Speaker 4: worse than that, just systematically enslave, rate, murder, torture. And

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Speaker 4: I think it's important to stress that, Like there's this

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Speaker 4: Libyan Coast Guard, they're funded by the European Union. So

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Speaker 4: the opinion Union will go out with drones support the

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Speaker 4: boat of migrants. Previously, the European Union actually had rescue ships,

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Speaker 4: but the European Union, if a boat is near another

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Speaker 4: boat in distress, there's an obligation to rescue, and after

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Speaker 4: the rescue, you have to bring the people to a

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Speaker 4: safe port. So having having a boat at sea meant

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Speaker 4: that the European Border Agency Front Tax was obliged to

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Speaker 4: rescue people at sea, and so they just thought let's

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Speaker 4: just do away with the boats and let's just have

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Speaker 4: helicopters and drones so we can still spot boats that

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Speaker 4: are sinking, but we cannot help them.

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Speaker 3: And they are obligated too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean they're physically yeah, exactly. They they they

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Speaker 4: managed to escape that responsibility under maritime law, and then

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Speaker 4: they paid the Libyan coast Guard to rescue rescue people

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Speaker 4: quote unquote. Libya is so bad that reportedly migrants just

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Speaker 4: jump in the water if they see a Libyan coast

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Speaker 4: guard because people prefer to drown them to be taken

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Speaker 4: back to Libya. The Libyan coast Guard takes the people

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Speaker 4: on the boat, brings them back to Libyan mainland, and

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Speaker 4: actually sells them to the militias running the detention centers.

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Speaker 4: So the Libyan coast Guard gets paid twice for stopping migrants,

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Speaker 4: first by the European Union and secondly by the militias

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Speaker 4: that will later sell them as slates or use them

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Speaker 4: for slavery. And this is what we have been funding

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Speaker 4: for years, and there have been extensive documentation about these

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Speaker 4: human rights violations and the very direct link of the

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Speaker 4: EO funding, and it just keeps going.

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Speaker 3: I think it was a year or so back where

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Speaker 3: I saw a video of someone a woman on a

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Speaker 3: dingy who was just incredibly emotional and she was just

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Speaker 3: exclaiming all the time like I'd rather die than go

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Speaker 3: back to Libya, which yeah, it's.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just literally what it is. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would encourage that the listeners to just google

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Speaker 3: something like Libya migrant detentions or something and look at

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Speaker 3: the pictures because it's you might get.

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Speaker 4: Like traumatized, but you will be more aware of the

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Speaker 4: horrors in the world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that they're not great pictures to look.

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Speaker 2: At, but thank you for good sleep.

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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I think it's important to see those things

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Speaker 3: because that is the reality that we in Europe often

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Speaker 3: do not get to see, and this is the reality

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Speaker 3: that has been created by our overlords. So what the

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Speaker 3: EU is doing is to be very blunt, extending its

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Speaker 3: own orders into sovereign territory of states outside of Europe

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Speaker 3: to stop migrants from even entering the EU. Proponents of

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Speaker 3: these policies will undoubtedly argue that this saves lives by

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Speaker 3: preventing people from crossing the Mediterranean in overcrowded boats and dinghies. Personally,

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Speaker 3: I would argue that people will continue to make that

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Speaker 3: crossing if only to escape the EU funded hellholes that

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Speaker 3: these regimes create in order to get that sweet, sweet

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Speaker 3: EU funding. What is definitely very concerning is that despite

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Speaker 3: criticisms from NGOs such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch,

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Speaker 3: Europe will likely continue these practices. Only last year did

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Speaker 3: it sign a deal with Tunisia with the attention of

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Speaker 3: using that as a third country as they call it,

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Speaker 3: to prevent sea crossings. European Commission President Ursula von der

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Speaker 3: Leyen stated that this could be a blueprint for cooperation

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Speaker 3: with other countries. Surprise of no one, this will very

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Speaker 3: likely increase the human rights violations and abusance that happened there.

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Speaker 3: And after this, I have two examples of stories that

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Speaker 3: that happens at the EU borders that are I think

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Speaker 3: particularly heartbreaking. And this was also the hardest part for

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Speaker 3: me to write, because there are so many stories out

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Speaker 3: there that I think deserve to be heard and deserve

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Speaker 3: to have like some lights shone on there just to

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Speaker 3: show people the reality. But that would be that would

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Speaker 3: turn into a very very long episode.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, can I can?

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Speaker 5: I quickly just I would like to say something about

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Speaker 5: the these deals and I think there is something very

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Speaker 5: ironic about the European Union pretending to value democracy and

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Speaker 5: human rights.

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Speaker 4: And Ladlav Well, I mean what you've just said makes

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Speaker 4: it apondantly clear that human rights in Europe are just

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Speaker 4: for Europeans and not for humans. But I would also

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Speaker 4: just like to stress that it's very strange and I

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Speaker 4: think not maybe often enough address that what Europe is

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Speaker 4: doing is it's just bribing countries. It is bribing countries

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Speaker 4: to stop migrants, It is bribing countries to take unwanted

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Speaker 4: migrants back through deportation. It is often also forced to

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Speaker 4: take on its own citizens. So it's not only people

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Speaker 4: from Sub Sahara Africa traveling through Libya, but it's also

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Speaker 4: Libyan people themselves. So they have elected a government, they

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Speaker 4: have an interest themselves as well, maybe in having the

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Speaker 4: ability to move away from Libya, and the you needs

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Speaker 4: to come up with enormous sums of money to force

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Speaker 4: these governments to Yeah, why do they need that money?

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Speaker 4: Because that's not in the interest of the country or

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Speaker 4: its citizens to do this. And especially in the Netherlands,

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Speaker 4: there is this enormous Yeah, there's this is expectation that

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Speaker 4: if we don't like something, other countries should do something

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Speaker 4: about it. So in the Netherlands, Moroccan migrants specifically are

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Speaker 4: filified a lot, and and Algerian migrants, and both countries

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Speaker 4: have not been very collaborative with deportations. But like, why

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Speaker 4: the hell should they support the forced return of their

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Speaker 4: own citizens who don't want to go back to their countries. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: like there's no reason for them to do that, except

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Speaker 4: if Europe is just abusing its power and forcing it

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Speaker 4: these countries to do things that are yeah, not in

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Speaker 4: their interest. I mean a lot of these border guards.

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Speaker 4: I think Libya has an exception because they they actually

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Speaker 4: make money out of the migrants in so many different ways.

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Speaker 4: But if you look at Serbia or Bosnia, they are

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Speaker 4: forced to control their borders, which is super expensive. And like,

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Speaker 4: these are tries who have other issues to fix, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: maybe they should, maybe they want to focus on building

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Speaker 4: up their country and improving living conditions, but instead the

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Speaker 4: EU is just giving them money to yeah, to protect,

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Speaker 4: to protect borders of people who aren't mainly just walking

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Speaker 4: through their countries. Like that's not really a big problem

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Speaker 4: for them. And yeah, it's very irunic because Europe is

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Speaker 4: like justifying its migration policies with this idea that every

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Speaker 4: country has sovereignty over who it allows access. That's like legally,

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Speaker 4: that's like the fundament of migration deterrence. But it only

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Speaker 4: claims that right for itself. So if other countries say, well,

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Speaker 4: I don't care if there's Serians walking through my country,

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Speaker 4: like maybe they'll spend some money and they'll just leave anyway. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: other countries don't have the right. I think Belarus is

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Speaker 4: an interesting example as well, because Belarus welcomed migrants and

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Speaker 4: then brought them to the new border with Poland and Lithuania,

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Speaker 4: and Bellus says every right to give feesa to people.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's actually like just like the Namla says

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Speaker 4: the rights to give freesa to people, Belarus says that

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Speaker 4: right too. And then of course people can also go

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Speaker 4: to the border across the border if they want and

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Speaker 4: ask for asylum. So yeah, I just wanted to highlight

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Speaker 4: the irony of how incredibly one sided Europe is in

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Speaker 4: how we can claim that we want to keep people out,

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Speaker 4: but other countries are not allowed to have sovereign migration policies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we see it exactly the same in the US, right,

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Speaker 2: and we're trying to outsource processing of migrants to Quatemolson

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Speaker 2: on Durs. We are trying to I mean, we pay

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Speaker 2: Mexico massive sum of money to enforce ourborder, right like

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Speaker 2: we saw. It's funny there are three gaps outside of

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Speaker 2: a combat that people who have listened to this podcast

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Speaker 2: will be very familiar with my reporting on. And we

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Speaker 2: saw those gaps close down, not when people started coming

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Speaker 2: so much, but once once legacy media outlets showed up.

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Speaker 2: Then by December, the US had a bilateral meeting with Mexico,

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Speaker 2: and very soon thereafter, we saw Mexican National Guard sitting

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Speaker 2: at those gaps in the border wall. The US is

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Speaker 2: border like if people are leaving Mexico, it's not Mexico's problem.

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Speaker 2: But we saw them with technicals and machine guns policing

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Speaker 2: those gaps in the border. And the US gives a

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Speaker 2: ton of money to countries to enforce its border right

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Speaker 2: to prevent migration and get extremely The US has even

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Speaker 2: taken actions to prosecute airlines that fly people north so

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Speaker 2: that they can do that too. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like insane, like half a million or something

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Speaker 4: for like bringing one migrant.

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Speaker 2: Without of these yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: Two is externalization, just as like bribing Libya to protect

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Speaker 4: the border. Is also like actually forcing carriers, like forcing

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Speaker 4: transport companies to be the border guard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, to ascertain whether you have a visa or not,

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Speaker 2: decide if you have the right to travel. Let's pick

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Speaker 2: up with those examples you make, because I think it

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Speaker 2: is important for people to kind of have a human

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Speaker 2: face or a human story.

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Speaker 3: Well, to preface this, like migrants are under EU law,

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Speaker 3: migrants are supposed to apply for aside in the first

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Speaker 3: EU country that they enter. This policy is likely the

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Speaker 3: result of fear from more affluent European countries that the

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Speaker 3: majority of refugees will travel to those countries. This means

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Speaker 3: that the countries geographically closest to Africa and the Middle

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Speaker 3: East are the ones supposed to take in most refugees.

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Speaker 3: Think of Spain, Greece, Italy, Bulgaria. They however, are not

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Speaker 3: too acphusiastic at the prospect of taking huge amounts of migrants.

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Speaker 4: More are the migrants themselves.

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Speaker 3: By the way, I can imagine that they're also a

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Speaker 3: lot too keen to live in Bulgaria, especially after what

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Speaker 3: follows next, because this story happened at the Turkish Bulgarian border.

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Speaker 3: But I also personally it's just incredibly cruel that like

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Speaker 3: the Netherlands and Germany and the Scandinavia countries are like,

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Speaker 3: oh no, you should take you should take all those refugees,

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Speaker 3: like we don't want them here.

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Speaker 4: And I would say, that's like where the outstoarsing starts,

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Speaker 4: like that's you law. We have shance, so we have

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Speaker 4: like free travel within the u EU, but that comes

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Speaker 4: with extremely violently guarding the outside of the u So

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Speaker 4: if you are a border country, you are only welcome

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Speaker 4: if you can prove to us that you are cr

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Speaker 4: enough to discourage people from crossing this border. Because again,

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Speaker 4: like Bulgaria doesn't really have that much interest in guarding

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Speaker 4: the borders if people can just if they anyway want

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Speaker 4: to go to Western European countries, right, so it's a

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Speaker 4: way to again to I would say, the border externalization

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Speaker 4: already starts from like the main countries of destination, which

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Speaker 4: is like France and Germany and even Bulgaria would not

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Speaker 4: have much interest in stopping migrants if there were not

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Speaker 4: all of these rules to make them responsible.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. But again, which is why I said, like the

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Speaker 3: more affluent countries within you don't want that for reasons

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Speaker 3: that I think anyone can think of at this point

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Speaker 3: of the story is where pushbacks come into play. This

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Speaker 3: is a tactic used by the countries I just mentioned.

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Speaker 3: It's a set of measures that force people back over

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Speaker 3: the border they crossed, often immediately after. This practice is

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Speaker 3: often a force for violence and does not take into

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Speaker 3: account the circumstances of migrants and denies them the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to apply for asylum. This means that the EU does

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Speaker 3: pushback people that have very legitimate reasons to apply for asylum.

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Speaker 3: Under the EU's own rules, I'm going to quote, pushbacks

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Speaker 3: violate the prohibition of collective expulsion of asylum seekers in

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Speaker 3: Protocol four of the European Convention on Human Rights, and

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Speaker 3: often violate the international law prohibiting on non refoulment. It's French, yeah, ah, okay,

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Speaker 3: I was never good at French, all right. It's a

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Speaker 3: fundamental principle of international law that forbids a country receiving

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Speaker 3: asylum seekers from returning them to a country in which

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Speaker 3: they would be improbable danger of persecution based on race, religion, nationality,

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Speaker 3: members ship of a particular social group, or political opinion.

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Speaker 3: That being said, I'm aware even like the Dutch government

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Speaker 3: has sent like Lgbtqi people back to countries where they

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Speaker 3: could be like persecuted for that. So again those rules

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Speaker 3: seem to be very optional. So what follows now is

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Speaker 3: two examples of border practices that I think are particularly egregious.

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Speaker 3: So on October third, twenty twenty two, Abdullah Mohammed, at

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Speaker 3: age nineteen, a Syrian refugee, attempted to cross the Bulgarian

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Speaker 3: Turkish border. After being pushed back by border guards, they

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Speaker 3: threw stones at the border I would emphasize here at

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Speaker 3: the border itself, not at the guards. After this, a

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Speaker 3: shot rang and Abdullah fell to the ground with a

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Speaker 3: bullet lodged one centimeter away from his heart. He survived

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Speaker 3: and was interviewed by Lighthouse Reports. He states that there

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Speaker 3: was an intent to kill when he was shot. That's

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Speaker 3: his belief. The bullet also pierced this hand, which is

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Speaker 3: now partially paralyzed. There seems to be no justification or

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Speaker 3: reason whatsoever for border guards to have shot, or to

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Speaker 3: have shot with live ammunition. This was the first time

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Speaker 3: that such an incident was called on video. If you want,

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Speaker 3: you can find it linked on Lighthouse Reports. Attached to

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Speaker 3: the article about this incident. The video is not as

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Speaker 3: bad as you might think, but watch you at your

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Speaker 3: own risk. As far as I'm aware, there have been

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Speaker 3: similar rumors before, but this was the first instant that

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Speaker 3: has entered like the public record, or the first time

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Speaker 3: it was actually documented. Needless to say, no one should

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Speaker 3: be shot for attempting to cross a border. I don't

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Speaker 3: care about anyone's opinion or bad faith nuances. People have

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Speaker 3: a right to apply for asylum, and as far as

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Speaker 3: I'm concerned, this was a deliberate and calculated attempted murder.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think there have been quite a lot

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Speaker 4: of videos of people being shot, and definitely people making

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Speaker 4: statements about it and just having the actual bullet in

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Speaker 4: their body to prove that it happened. Yeah, it happened

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Speaker 4: in Croatia, it happened in Greece. Greece is a habit

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Speaker 4: of shooting at boats as well, and in that way

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Speaker 4: making people drown. Yeah. And of course, apart from the shootings,

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Speaker 4: which I would say on the European borders that they

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Speaker 4: are still kind of rare. Yeah, the pushbacks and the

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Speaker 4: violence and the torture is yeah, the evidence of that

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Speaker 4: is like an enormous pile. There's when I was working

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Speaker 4: in Bosnia, I think that was in twenty eighteen nineteen,

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Speaker 4: there was no video footage of a pushback, and there

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Speaker 4: was a journalist who volunteered with us for a while

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Speaker 4: and they were the first one to film it. But

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Speaker 4: in the past years there have been like many, many

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Speaker 4: horrible videos of people being beaten up and actual torture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Of course in the US, under the pretense of

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Speaker 2: protecting us all from the coronavirus, which still killed millions

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Speaker 2: of people in this country, we have done they called

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Speaker 2: Title forty two, which allowed border patrol to quote unquote

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Speaker 2: repatriate people to Mexico, even if they were Mexican, and

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Speaker 2: just drop them back in Mexico, to include laterally transferring them,

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Speaker 2: which is a pseudonym for kind of trafficking them halfway

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Speaker 2: across the country and then dumping them in a place

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Speaker 2: where they have no connections, no money, and no way

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Speaker 2: of establishing themselves right. And this led to massively increased

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Speaker 2: a fatalities at the border because people were trying to

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Speaker 2: avoid border patrol where then coming in and surrendering themselves

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Speaker 2: for so as we see now and massively increase encounters

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Speaker 2: at the border encounters don't necessarily represent unique individuals. Right,

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Speaker 2: this is my I will beat this fucking drum until

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Speaker 2: I die. But apparently our colleagues at New York Times

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Speaker 2: haven't worked it out yet. Wall Street Journal, almost every NPRT,

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Speaker 2: every big outlet in the United States that likes to

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Speaker 2: commission border reporters who don't live on the border will

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Speaker 2: tell you that that, like the number of migrants went up.

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Speaker 2: An encounter is an encounter. If someone crosses and then

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Speaker 2: gets bounced into Mexico and then crosses again and does

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Speaker 2: that five times, that's five encounters. It's the same person.

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Speaker 2: BP doesn't keep records of unique individuals under Title forty two,

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Speaker 2: or didn't keep under Citle forty two. We don't know

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Speaker 2: how many people, but we know that more people tried

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Speaker 2: to cross, and we also know that every time you

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Speaker 2: try to cross, you risk your life. And so we

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Speaker 2: certainly know that more lives will put in danger because

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Speaker 2: of this policy, because again, like turning someone back is

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Speaker 2: not going to stop them, especially when you're dropping them

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Speaker 2: in a country where they don't want to be and

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Speaker 2: where they're not from. Like, the people aren't just going

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Speaker 2: to be like okay, cool, I'll stay in Mexico like that.

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Speaker 2: That has not historically been the case.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we had exactly the same kind of juggling with numbers.

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Speaker 4: I remember people in Bosnia. Some of them would get

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Speaker 4: pushed back like forty or fifty times, and so they

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Speaker 4: would be counted as individuals starts. Yes, indeed, so it would.

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Speaker 6: Sound as if there was like, I don't know, tens

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Speaker 6: of thousands, and I was like, it's really not that many, though, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 6: just literally count the same person again and again and again.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And also I would like to say that like, yes,

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Speaker 4: it is a border like the EO border countries, but

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Speaker 4: it is also much deeper into the territory. So we

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Speaker 4: externalize the border towards like Libya, Niger and way further even,

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Speaker 4: but we also internalized the border, so we would find

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Speaker 4: we would have people who had made it to Austria

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Speaker 4: or Italy. They would get caught in Austria Italy, be

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Speaker 4: pushed back to Slovenia, taken over by Slovenian police, brought

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Speaker 4: to the Croatian border, taken over decoration police. Often in

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Speaker 4: Croatia get tortured and then be dumped on the Boston

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Speaker 4: In border, which would be the EO border as well.

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Speaker 4: So that's what they call chain pushbacks and yeah, I yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I worked in the Boston hed Selovina, which is

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Speaker 4: none you, So we would get the people after they

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Speaker 4: had been pushed back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The things that people have done, like wader guards have

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Speaker 4: done to migrants are yeah, I don't know if you

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Speaker 4: actually want to use this footage, right, it's like it's

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Speaker 4: really really gruesome. Like in Bosnia, they would they would

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Speaker 4: be like snow form, like they have very long and

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Speaker 4: very cold winters. They would take away people's shoes and

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Speaker 4: socks and like make them walk for five hours on

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Speaker 4: bare feet. So one of the main tasks of our

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Speaker 4: volunteers are medical volunteers, was amputating toes. People would, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: people would come back with broken bones, broken skulls. People

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Speaker 4: would be sent back with just their underwear at minus

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Speaker 4: twenty degrees celsius. I don't know how much that is.

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Speaker 2: In the US, neither do ways. I think they come

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Speaker 2: together around minus twenty. It's extremely The culdred.

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Speaker 4: Gets the more accurate. Yeah. So, like at some point

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Speaker 4: we start to call this cold torture as a kind

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Speaker 4: of specific yeah, tactic that mainly the Croatian border guards

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Speaker 4: were using yeah. Also yeah, And I also want to

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Speaker 4: stress again that yes, it is the European border countries

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Speaker 4: in the east and in the West and in the south.

435
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 4: But when I was working in Bosnia, Croatia was not

436
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:56,239
Speaker 4: yet part of the Shanan Zone, and like politicians were

437
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 4: pretty explicit about Croatia can only enter if they have

438
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 4: solved their border problem, even though there was constantly proof

439
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 4: of torture coming out. The same happened with Bulgaria and Romania.

440
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 4: So these countries were very very much pressured by countries

441
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 4: like the Netherlands and Germany, who like you know, pretend

442
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 4: not to have anything to do with these atrocities, but

443
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 4: who were very very explicitly saying if you are not,

444
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 4: if you don't get your borders in control, you cannot

445
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 4: join the economic Yeah, you cannot have the open borders

446
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 4: within the U.

447
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so sad to see all these serialities. This

448
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: is very depressing. My friends and I were helping someone

449
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: who had it like the early onset of like like

450
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: trench foot, Yeah, a couple of weeks ago.

451
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 5: Yeah.

452
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't do it, like I guess as a

453
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: policy as much as just by default. But in the

454
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: mountains and then desert here in California. When it rains,

455
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: areas that are drive the rest of the year turn

456
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: into rivers and migrants have to cross him. We've also

457
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: seen a large number of migrants drown this year in

458
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: San Diego, and I more will have drowned if very

459
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: brave people hadn't risk their own lives rescuing them. Not

460
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: people who were working for the government, just individuals who cared.

461
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: We've also seen a young man from Jamaica recently passed away.

462
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: This was in early probably early for some February and March.

463
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: From February March. He was on a migrant trail. I

464
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: know exactly where, about a few hundred yards actually from

465
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: where my friends have left warm clothes, hand warmers, jackets, food, water.

466
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: But he wasn't able to make it that far and

467
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, you know, like one death of a

468
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 2: tragedy and a millions of statistic or whatever. But that

469
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: really impacted me. He was actually on the other side

470
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: of the border when he died, but like he could

471
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: have thrown a stone into the US and it's not

472
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: a fence to border there. But yet we have chosen

473
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: a policy which made that young man die of hypothermia

474
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: by himself on the side of a mountain because for

475
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: some reason, that's what we've decided, or our government has

476
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: decided it's better than having him come here and be

477
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: able to make his case and live with us and

478
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: get a job or what have you. And yeah, that

479
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: was just a particularly heartbreaking one for me because I

480
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: knew that, like, he was five minutes walk away, ten

481
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: minutes walk away from potentially being okay, And like that

482
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: that's why my friends and I like to go out

483
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,959
Speaker 2: and leave stuff for people. But it shouldn't be a

484
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: group of anarchists and migrant activists and people of faith

485
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: like hiking into the desert every weekend with backpacks full

486
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: of water and food and warm clothes. That shouldn't be

487
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: what prevents people from dying coming here.

488
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a kind of cruelty in that, even like

489
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 4: it is amazing to help people to be part of

490
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 4: a group of people who commit themselves to yeah, to

491
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 4: resist these incredibly violent borders and to support people who

492
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 4: decide to cross them. But at the same time, it

493
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 4: is just so problematic that someone's life, like access to

494
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 4: food or healthcare, depends on whether or not there are

495
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 4: some crazy volunteers willing to do that, so like it

496
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 4: shouldn't be like our you know, are like, yeah, like

497
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 4: I don't want to have that power over someone's life,

498
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 4: and I think no one should have that power over

499
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 4: someone's life. But this system where basically migrants lives are disposable,

500
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 4: also mean that it's like optional to offer super basic

501
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 4: things that can save these lives.

502
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very much too.

503
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: Are you ready for the second depressing story.

504
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get the second depress let's hit rock bottom.

505
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.

506
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 3: So I'm sure you've you've heard this story before, but

507
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 3: still I think it's very much worth repeating. So on

508
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 3: June fourteenth, twenty twenty three, the Adriana, a ship on

509
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 3: its way degrees, capsized and subsequently sank. The boat allegedly

510
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 3: had the capacity for about four hundred people, but carried

511
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,719
Speaker 3: around seven hundred and fifty. Of all those lives, one

512
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 3: hundred and four were saved, eighty two were confirmed deaths,

513
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 3: and up to four five hundreds are missing and presumed death,

514
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 3: the majority of which are women and children. I'll refer

515
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 3: back to the Lighthouse Reports, who did a reconstruction of

516
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: the incident, which makes this even worse than it already is.

517
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 3: Transcriptions and witness statements obtained by Lighthouse Reports, the Oshpiego Monitor, Asiairaj,

518
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 3: Lpos Report, Is United and The Times strongly suggests that

519
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: the Greek coast Guard attempted to conceal their own involvement

520
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 3: in this tragedy. Nine survivors were asked to make statements,

521
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 3: none of which appeared to blame the coast guard. Different

522
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 3: suggestions were given for the capsizing, blaming it on the

523
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 3: edge of the ship or the lack of life jackets.

524
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 3: Four of these statements contained near identical phrasing. It was

525
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: later discovered that one of the translators was a coast

526
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: guard himself. There were other translators, all of which were

527
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 3: sworn in on that very day later in Greek courts.

528
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 3: Six of those nine stated that the coast guard did

529
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: in fact tow the boat before it went down. Two

530
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 3: survivors tot Lighthouse reports that certain parts of their testimony

531
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 3: was omitted in the transcription to clarify that a bit

532
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: because of what I said earlier that migrants have are

533
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: obligated to apply for asylum in the country in which

534
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: they arrive. It's become a habit of like coast guard

535
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 3: and frontext to drag them to certain areas of of

536
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 3: water that are part of for example, Italy or Greece.

537
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 3: This particular one boat may have been an attempt to

538
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 3: drag the boat to Italian waters so the Greeks didn't

539
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 3: have to take them in. So to quote the report

540
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: from Lighthouse sixteen out of the seventeen survivors we spoke

541
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 3: to set the coast guard attached the rope to the

542
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 3: vessel and tried to tow it shortly before it capsized.

543
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 3: Four also claimed that the coast guard was attempting to

544
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 3: tow the boat to Italian waters, while four reported that

545
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 3: the coast guard caused more depths by circling around the

546
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 3: boat after it capsized, making waves that caused the boat's

547
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 3: carcass to sink. End quote not great badtime stories if

548
00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 3: you ask me, yeah, I thin, yes, there there's just

549
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: no words like yeah.

550
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 2: I think I think to say like, I don't think

551
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 2: anyone should be okay with it.

552
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: M M.

553
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: Perhaps I think we're going to talk again about how

554
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: people can oppose this, and how people can try their

555
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: best to to a change the system and be do

556
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: what they can, you know, while we're stuck in this

557
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 2: terrible place to make things more survivable and less cruel.

558
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: So perhaps we can finish up here with you guys

559
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: plugging anything you want to. If there are orgs or

560
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: social media where people can follow both of your work

561
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 2: and then I'd love to hear about them.

562
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can follow us on migrates dot the n

563
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 4: I think it's like for English and migrated.

564
00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 5: I G R E A C.

565
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, the system is super fucked. It is super super

566
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 4: super fucked. It is Yeah, it's really treating human beings

567
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 4: as disposable and human a moment life has absolutely no value.

568
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 4: But I also just wanted to say that I think

569
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 4: a lot of migrants who cross borders they are aware

570
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 4: of the risks. But I think it's also important to

571
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 4: say that it isn't it's a kind of resistance. It

572
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 4: is a kind of We started that episode with talking

573
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 4: about passport privilege and the lottery of birth, and I

574
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 4: think we should not only look at like the bad

575
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 4: border guards and the good people helping or something, but

576
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 4: I think we should also acknowledge that the people crossing

577
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 4: the borders are doing like taking unbelievable risk, often also

578
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 4: to help their families or their friends. Yeah, and I

579
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 4: think crossing a border without permission is a kind of resistance.

580
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 4: And I think we as people who do direct support

581
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 4: or direct aid, we are I mean, for me, it's

582
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 4: also part of the resistance. Is like helping people cross

583
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 4: the border. I don't mind if yeah, people that want

584
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 4: to accuse me of being a smaller or something, or

585
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 4: like aiding illegal border crossings, Like the whole point is

586
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 4: that people should be able to cross that border.

587
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really good Someone recently

588
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 2: accused us of in Cucumber that said that people people

589
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: come to a cumber because we feed them, and like

590
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: it's fucking ludicrous, Like you didn't fucking come from a

591
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: guinea because I'm going to give you a peanut butter sandwich.

592
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 4: Bat like the best food.

593
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, like it is. It is not the best.

594
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 2: It's the best we can do, like you know, less

595
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 2: than an other person or what have you. But like no,

596
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 2: like but I yes, but I am doing it because

597
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: I believe that person should be able to and not

598
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 2: just because they're in those circumstances, but because I fundamentally

599
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 2: support there, right, Like I want them to be my neighbor. Yeah,

600
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: I'm okay with that, and that's why I'm doing it.

601
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely think I think we should all keep in

602
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 3: mind how many of our friends, family, or other loved

603
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 3: ones have moved at some point in their lives for

604
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 3: a job or opportunities or love or whatever. Not that

605
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 3: the essence of like Huban movement is the same, right

606
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 3: right there?

607
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it is our politicians who choose

608
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 4: that this movement is a problem, that the movement of

609
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 4: these people specifically is a threat or danger, whereas I think, like, yeah,

610
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 4: if you talk about like racism or systemic racism, the questions,

611
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, but what is the system?

612
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:50,919
Speaker 1: Then?

613
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 4: This is the system, the visa policies, the actual border,

614
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 4: This is what is keeping people like is trying to

615
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 4: keep people unexploitable conditions in the global South, is doing

616
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 4: incredible cruelties to them just for political gain. Is exploiting

617
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 4: people who do make it, but who are undocumented or

618
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 4: on fragile resident status and are still exploited and deprived

619
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 4: of basic rights even if they do arrive to their

620
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 4: country of destination. Like this system is designed to create

621
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 4: an underclass of people that is easily exploitable. There are

622
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 4: companies who are profiting from this. There is absolutely no

623
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 4: intention to stop migration, but there is definitely an intention

624
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 4: to marginalize and segregate migrants and yeah, and just profits

625
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 4: of it.

626
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. And meanwhile, we do the absolute bare minimum to

627
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 3: provide aids to those countries to make the living conditions

628
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 3: there better.

629
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, these borders are playing a role and keeping people

630
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 4: exploitable there and making it possible to make them work

631
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 4: for incredible low wages and horrible labor conditions. Like yeah,

632
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 4: into those into those conditions.

633
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 3: I think the the mandatory international development aid that countries

634
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 3: should pay is like zero points zero zero seven percent

635
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: or something of the GDP, and the majority of like

636
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: Western countries are not not not doing that even that.

637
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 3: So it's very much like the problem is that they're

638
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: coming here, not that the conditions there are ships and

639
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 3: war keeping them ships.

640
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, were great.

641
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 3: I'm a bit bumped now.

642
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, we left you will saide. We will come

643
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 2: back with with Rose again and make to talk about

644
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: ways to make it better. Is there anything you wanted

645
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 2: to plug, make any anything you want people to give

646
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 2: the time money to follow on the internet.

647
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: I just want to give a shout out to like

648
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: organizations such as Migrates, but also the abolished Frontechs campaign

649
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: and United Against Refugee's And it would urge anyone to

650
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 3: who feels compassionate to help out. There are so many

651
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: ways you can help out, even if you don't know

652
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 3: it yet. It is sorely needed. Like wherever you are,

653
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 3: whoever you are, you can help out.

654
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Everyone, it's me James, and I just wanted to read

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Speaker 2: you this today. We're going to put it in our

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00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: episode this week because it's a cause that's important to us,

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00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 2: and so we thought it would be something that might

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Speaker 2: be important to you too as well. On the tenth

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Speaker 2: of June twenty twenty four, Lennond Pelgier, an enrolled member

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Speaker 2: of the Turtle Band of Chippewa of Lakota and Ojibwei

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00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: ancestry and the longest serving political prisoner in the United States,

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00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 2: will be appearing before the US Parole Commission for the

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Speaker 2: first time since two thousand and nine. He faces staunch

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Speaker 2: opposition from the FBI and other laurenenforcement agencies due to

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Speaker 2: having allegedly killed two FBI agents in a firefight on

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Speaker 2: the twenty sixth of June nineteen seventy five, after the

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00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 2: agents appeared on reservation land to execute a pretextural warrant.

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Speaker 2: The initial firefight occurred during the quote reign of terror

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Speaker 2: on Pine Ridge in the wake of the occupation of

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Speaker 2: Wounded Kney, a time of extreme violence when federal law

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00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 2: enforcement installed a puppet tribal chair and was arming vigilantes

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Speaker 2: who targeted Indigenous traditionalists. Every since leading up to these events,

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Speaker 2: as well as subsequent investigation and mister Peltier's extradition, trial, conviction,

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Speaker 2: and sentencing, were characterized by gross misconduct on the part

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Speaker 2: of law enforcement, the prosecution, and the courts. Mister Peltier's

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00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 2: co defendants were separately tried and acquitted on grounds of

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00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 2: self defense. Mister Peltier was railroaded, and his case is

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00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 2: tainted by discrimination every level, ranging from the withholding of

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Speaker 2: exculpatory evidence to the torture and coercion of extradition and

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00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: trial witnesses, and from the refuse of the judge to

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00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: dismiss and vowedly racist Dura, to the apologetic gymnastics of

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00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: the courts affirming his convictions in the face of meritorious

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00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: legal challenges and admitted evidence about rageous government misdeeds. Mister

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Speaker 2: Peltier has been in prison for more than forty eight

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Speaker 2: years and he's almost eighty years old. He suffers from

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Speaker 2: chronic and potentially lethal conditions for which he receives insufficient

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00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: and substandard medical care. If you want to take action

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Speaker 2: to hashtag free Lenard Peltier, you can call the US

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Speaker 2: Parole Commission at two zero two three four six seven

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Speaker 2: zero zero zero. And if you'd like to find more

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00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 2: information on how to support, you can go to this

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Speaker 2: r L it's h t t P colon slash slash

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Speaker 2: n d n C dot c C slash free Leonard Peltier.

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Speaker 2: That's fre e l e O n A r d

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00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: P e l t i E or you can follow

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Speaker 2: NDN collective on social media for more ways to support him.

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Speaker 2: More information on Danna Peltier, listen to Margaret's podcast on

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Speaker 2: the Lakota Nation, a read in the Spirit of the

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Speaker 2: Crazy Horse by Peter Mathewson.

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Speaker 1: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts,

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Speaker 1: you can find sources for It could happen here, Updated

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Speaker 1: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,