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Speaker 1: Trust me.

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Speaker 2: Trust me. I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lied to you.

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Speaker 4: If you think.

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Speaker 1: That one person has all the answers, don't.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to trust me. The podcast about cults, extreme belief

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Speaker 5: and the abusive power from two whores who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I am low.

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Speaker 5: Lablanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth and today's part two of

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Speaker 5: our interview with Naomi Gibson, who was a member of

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Speaker 5: both the Family aka the Children of God as she

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Speaker 5: taught us and Nexium, the infamous sex cult headed by

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Speaker 5: Keith Ranieri and known for branding women who were members

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Speaker 5: of the abusive subsect DOS, including India Oxenburg, our previous guest,

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Speaker 5: Naomi's featured and seduced. She's going to tell us about

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Speaker 5: how Mark Vicente got her into Nexium, which she calls

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Speaker 5: esp how it triggered her childhood trauma from her previous cult,

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Speaker 5: why she was too broke to get too deep into it.

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Speaker 1: And how she was involved in its unraveling.

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Speaker 4: We're also going to touch on why undue influenced laws

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Speaker 4: need to be made more broad and why people should

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Speaker 4: just be open about when they've had a cult experience,

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Speaker 4: which I couldn't be more on.

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Speaker 1: Board with Samesias.

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Speaker 4: No shame, no shame.

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Speaker 5: Hashtag no shame. Mm mmm, we're not hashtagging that hashtag.

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Speaker 5: I got out that's what.

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Speaker 1: Steve Hassen likes.

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Speaker 5: Okay, just to heads up here, we will be discussing

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Speaker 5: trauma on sexual assault, So Megan, yes, lel I was

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Speaker 5: wondering what the cultest thing to happen to you this

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Speaker 5: week was.

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Speaker 4: That's such a great question. Well, Lola, as we've noted before,

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Speaker 4: I have not left my bedroom this week, but I

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Speaker 4: was sent a post where Dimmy Lovado is talking about

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Speaker 4: her experience.

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Speaker 1: You mean with doctor Stephen Queer, the UFO guy.

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Speaker 4: Is he really a doctor? I think so. I think

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Speaker 4: he's probably the only doctor I want to be around

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Speaker 4: right now. And you know, they went out to Joshua

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Speaker 4: Tree and she said, but if one percent of the

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Speaker 4: population meditated and got in touch with these beings, the

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Speaker 4: planet would be on the right track. They're actually selling

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Speaker 4: an app for nine ninety nine, which I've never paid

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Speaker 4: that much for an app in my entire life. But

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Speaker 4: it helps you get in touch with aliens, which makes

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Speaker 4: me think worth it.

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Speaker 5: That is a really good deal for alien contact.

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Speaker 4: Not gonna lie for sure, Like I've spent that much

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Speaker 4: money on coffee this morning, and I could be talking

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Speaker 4: to other life forms, like, yes.

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Speaker 1: I am bored out of my mind.

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Speaker 5: Like all I want right now is an alien abduction exactly.

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Speaker 5: Something something just needs to happen in my life.

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Speaker 4: Jimmy Levado gets everything, like you know, she gets to

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Speaker 4: do anything she wants, and then the aliens like her first.

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Speaker 4: It's just so unfair, But I could see myself really

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Speaker 4: getting into Aliens.

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Speaker 5: I have been there, my friend. I have been there,

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Speaker 5: a real deep dive. I got real into it. I'm

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Speaker 5: like a big Tom DeLong fan. Now.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think they're the only cult currently worth joining.

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Speaker 4: So I don't know. I it kind of struck me

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Speaker 4: as something, you know, to keep my eye on.

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Speaker 1: What's gonna happen with this app This.

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Speaker 5: Guy is seems very interesting, and I hope that we

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Speaker 5: can do an episode on him at some point because

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Speaker 5: he seems like he's got his own situation.

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Speaker 4: Hello over there, I love it. What's your what's your

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Speaker 4: cultiist thing this week?

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Speaker 5: Well, like you, there's nothing happening in my life when

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Speaker 5: you put it that way. Actually, the group Dynamics I

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Speaker 5: mentioned in the last episode have have resolved themselves, so

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Speaker 5: I'm very happy about that. But here's the thing, I

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Speaker 5: could use a little more culty. Shit. I have a

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Speaker 5: bunch of mushrooms in my freezer right now, and I'm

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Speaker 5: talking about psychedelic mushrooms, y'all.

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Speaker 1: No shame hashtag, no shame hashtag. I got out. Fun fact.

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Speaker 5: I have never drank alcohol. I have never smoked tweed,

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Speaker 5: although I accidentally took an edible once. It was terrible

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Speaker 5: And the only thing that I've ever I've never smoked

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Speaker 5: a cigarette. The only thing I've ever done is mushrooms.

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Speaker 5: And for some people that's a weird leap. For me,

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Speaker 5: it was the twenty sixteen election had just happened, and

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Speaker 5: I was like, fuck this, my brain needs to change

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Speaker 5: like something.

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Speaker 1: I can't like live with this reality right now. And

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Speaker 1: it was great. I loved it. They are the best

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Speaker 1: and I did them.

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Speaker 5: After my breakup, I went to Joshua Tree as one

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Speaker 5: does have that in common, and I had such a

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Speaker 5: like connected experience to the universe and I was able

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Speaker 5: to nurture myself and tell myself that I'm worthy of love.

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Speaker 4: Hello, I mean, fuck those magical, magical little mushrooms.

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Speaker 1: Magical little mushrooms.

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Speaker 5: I am going to purchase book How to Change Your Mind,

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Speaker 5: which is all about psychedelics since the variety of positive

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Speaker 5: effects that they can have on us, even though they've

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Speaker 5: kind of been dismissed by the scientific community, and now

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Speaker 5: there's this resurgence going on where we're like, Okay, this

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Speaker 5: needs to not be stigmatized because silo, Oh my god, silos,

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Speaker 5: how do you say it?

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Speaker 1: Silos? Why can I never remember how to say it?

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Speaker 1: Silo cybin?

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Speaker 5: Uh, Silocybin can actually help with depression and addiction apparently.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, I'm excited to read that book.

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Speaker 4: Well, you brought up something interesting for me, which is

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Speaker 4: one of the cultiest things in my life is that

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Speaker 4: I really believe in psychedelics as a big part of

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Speaker 4: my life purpose and journey. And I also got involved

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Speaker 4: with a group to Quit Drinking that says you cannot

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Speaker 4: take mushrooms or LSD and I really love the group.

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Speaker 4: But that's been, you know, kind of a culty back

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Speaker 4: and forth for me.

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Speaker 5: I was just listening and I need to finish the episode,

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Speaker 5: but I was just listening to the Ezra Klein podcast.

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Speaker 5: There's a new episode about that about mushrooms, and they

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Speaker 5: address that specifically, and they talk about that in the

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Speaker 5: book because it is like count like apparently Bill the

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Speaker 5: original dude, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, he wrote the whole thing on LSD.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and he was an advocate for psychedelics. But then

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Speaker 5: apparently the other like original board of AA were like,

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Speaker 5: that's too confusing to tell people that there's an exception exactly.

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Speaker 4: And I get what they're saying. It's like, you know what,

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Speaker 4: just like don't do it, but it's a if it

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Speaker 4: was just kind of like, oh, you know, I just

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Speaker 4: think they're fun. Then I put in and then everything

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Speaker 4: would be chill. But it's not just something fun. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I believe this can change people's lives for the better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And you know, as a person who didn't do a

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Speaker 5: single fucking substance at all until age literally twenty nine,

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Speaker 5: twenty nine or thirty, I was like definitely on that

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Speaker 5: train of like, no, you know, psychedelics are a substance, psychedelics,

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Speaker 5: so therefore whatever. But having actually done them, I'm like

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Speaker 5: that shit genuinely helped me, yes, and like genuinely like

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Speaker 5: got me to a better place in my head. I

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Speaker 5: was able to like deal with stuff that I was

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Speaker 5: having a hard time dealing with and whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's not it's not like it's not.

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Speaker 5: A replacement for therapy obviously, but I do think it

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Speaker 5: can help people like come to terms with what's going

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Speaker 5: on and feel more connected to humanity and absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's you know, that's a real life like

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't want to call it a cult,

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Speaker 4: but it's a it's a society with a lot of rules.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, that's been a really big issue in my

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Speaker 4: life right now.

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Speaker 5: The reason that episode was out this week, Actually this

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Speaker 5: is probably relevant to information is because I think in

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Speaker 5: Oregon there's been a law changed to promote the study

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Speaker 5: and the use of psilocybin as a treatment as a

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Speaker 5: psychiatric treat.

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Speaker 4: I mean, why has that not happened before? I have

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Speaker 4: no idea.

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Speaker 5: I mean I feel like in the next ten years,

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Speaker 5: there's gonna be some major ships in that department, and

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Speaker 5: it's gonna be really exciting because we're all gonna be

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Speaker 5: fucking tripping.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we're all gonna be like understanding consciousness and

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Speaker 4: with Demi Levado talking to aliens and shit like beam

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Speaker 4: me up to that time and space. Time's not real.

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Speaker 4: I'm ready now, a men, this episode's really really good.

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Speaker 4: I think Naomi is she's been through everything.

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Speaker 5: We all know the story of Next to You, and

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Speaker 5: we all get the polished story, but Nami has got

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Speaker 5: those like those details, you know, like a little about

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Speaker 5: what Mark was doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a good inside look. It's juicy, all right, let's

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Speaker 1: get back to this interview.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, So in part one, Naomi told us about

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Speaker 5: her childhood and the family growing up all over the world,

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Speaker 5: including a compound in the Philippines where things got pretty

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Speaker 5: dark when she was a kid. We left off with

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Speaker 5: her telling us how she got out and she grew up,

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Speaker 5: and then she met Mark Visende from Nexium aka esp

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Speaker 5: or I guess I should say esp aka Nexim.

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Speaker 2: I'm twenty five, I think when I was introduced to

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Speaker 2: Nixim GSP and.

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Speaker 1: How did that happen?

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Speaker 2: So? I was working for a company and Mark Vicente

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Speaker 2: was promoting his movie What the bleep do we know?

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Speaker 2: I was living in San Diego at the time, and

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Speaker 2: I wanted to move to la because I'm an actress

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Speaker 2: and you know, wanted to get break into that world.

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Speaker 2: And I had been producing events and stuff but I

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Speaker 2: wanted to kind of, you know, get out of that

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Speaker 2: and do something more in line with what my passions are.

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Speaker 2: And Mark was at that time, he was in ESP

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Speaker 2: very much so, and and a lot of the stuff

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Speaker 2: he was saying sounded really interesting. And mind you, I

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Speaker 2: had met a lot of speakers, and there was something

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Speaker 2: about Mark and I think really ultimately he was a filmmaker,

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Speaker 2: he had made a movie. I was like, Okay, maybe

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Speaker 2: I can reach out to him. I never reached out

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Speaker 2: to any of the other speakers, but for him, I

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Speaker 2: reached out because you know of his connection to the industry,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, maybe he can get me

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Speaker 2: a job on set, Like maybe there's some kind of

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Speaker 2: thing I can be an assistant to somebody whatever. And

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Speaker 2: so from that, he invites me to an intro and

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Speaker 2: the intros are this meeting. Katherine Oxenberg talks about the

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Speaker 2: intro and seduced. It's at this beautiful home and everyone

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Speaker 2: looks really nice and really happy. I mean, obviously, you

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Speaker 2: know it's an intro to something. You know, a lot

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Speaker 2: of people don't know why they're there, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we're like, oh, I don't know, my friend invited me.

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Speaker 2: Why did you. Why are you here? You know, And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, Mark Sente, Oh, Mark Vicente invited you. Wow.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, hmmm, what is this? Like I'm like

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Speaker 2: and again like I had come from the speaker realm,

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Speaker 2: so I knew that there was going to be a

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Speaker 2: sale at the end, you know, I knew. I just knew.

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Speaker 2: Like that's just the way they do things, you know.

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Speaker 2: So you go to this thing like it's kind of

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Speaker 2: like one of those those timeshare meetings, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so you.

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Speaker 2: Go there and they kind of wine and dine in you,

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Speaker 2: they kind of like, you know, and then you sit

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Speaker 2: down and then you learn of this amazing thing, and

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Speaker 2: then you know it's like, oh, for the low low

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Speaker 2: price this price, you too have an amazing life, you know.

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Speaker 2: But while they were talking about it, I mean, one

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Speaker 2: of the things that I really liked was this idea

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Speaker 2: of achieving your goals, achieving your dreams. How do you

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Speaker 2: do that? How do you do that? When you were

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Speaker 2: you know, told that you shouldn't, you can't do that,

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Speaker 2: or that you're not good enough or you don't think

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Speaker 2: you're good enough because way back when your mom told

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Speaker 2: you you can't draw, or you're not a good singer

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Speaker 2: or something like that, and so that is like imprinted

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Speaker 2: on you. And they said that through their techniques like

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Speaker 2: ems and their teachings that they can help you break

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Speaker 2: through to find your true passions and to live you know,

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Speaker 2: your greatest potential. So that seemed good. And you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the people who were there had success

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Speaker 2: stories and like, you know, like I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: a dancer and I was told I wasn't good enough,

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Speaker 2: and you know, now I'm dancing it this place and

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy, YadA YadA. And then they would talk

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Speaker 2: about getting rid of allergies to food and that it's

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Speaker 2: all in the mind. That sounds cool. And so then

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Speaker 2: I see the price point and it's you know, reduced

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Speaker 2: price for that night, you know, twenty one hundred dollars,

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Speaker 2: and I'm.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, my gosh.

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Speaker 2: I'm good. And at the time, I was still living

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Speaker 2: in San Diego. I was moving to LA and I

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Speaker 2: was like, that's gonna that's going to like take a

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Speaker 2: ding into my savings. Like I don't know if I

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Speaker 2: can do that. And Mark was pretty persistent. He called

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Speaker 2: me every day every other day for weeks. Took an

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Speaker 2: interest in that that's the thing these organizations do. They

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Speaker 2: love bomb you. They make you feel special and important.

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Speaker 2: And here is this cinematographer of this movie that everybody

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Speaker 2: in my like speaker realm watched and loved. You know,

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Speaker 2: it was a huge hit in this like self help

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Speaker 2: like spiritual sector. So it was a big deal. And

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Speaker 2: and the idea of what he would say, Well, there's

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Speaker 2: other actresses there, Alison Mack, you know, there's Kirk, There's

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Speaker 2: different people that I can network with, and you know,

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Speaker 2: there's there's all kinds of people in the industry that

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Speaker 2: are going to be at this five day and you

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Speaker 2: know it's going to be great. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. And then one night

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Speaker 2: I had done this event and I was just like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm just I was so exhausted from the event, and

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Speaker 2: I was just so tired of my job. I was

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Speaker 2: about to quit anyway. And I was honestly tired of

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Speaker 2: hearing from him too. I was just like, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: in a way, you know, it was nice, but it

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Speaker 2: was I felt the pressure. And so when he, you know,

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Speaker 2: oftentimes talk to me about how much I had to

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Speaker 2: my bank account, like could I afford it, Like I

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Speaker 2: could afford it because I had saved up because I

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Speaker 2: was about to do this huge move. You know. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't like I was this rich person who had all

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Speaker 2: this money. So it was a lot of money. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't like I could just throw down two thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: on my credit card. You know. I didn't have a

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Speaker 2: credit card that had that big of a balance. But like,

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Speaker 2: I think the pressure that he put on was can

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Speaker 2: you put a price on your future? Can you put

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Speaker 2: a price on what your dreams?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 5: I mean I feel like that would be just so

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Speaker 5: persuasive for anyone in La pursuing a dream and being

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Speaker 5: told that all these successful people are achieving their dreams

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Speaker 5: and it's through this program, and it's a successful person

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Speaker 5: telling you that I wanted to like meet those people

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Speaker 5: and get into that world that's.

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Speaker 1: So attractive exactly, Yeah, alluring.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, Okay, fine, I'm doing it. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna know it. Oh my god, I remember where I was.

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Speaker 2: I was actually doing an event here in La on

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Speaker 2: the Santa Monica Peer and in when the space is there,

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Speaker 2: and I was just like outside while my colleagues were

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Speaker 2: cleaning up and I was like, I have to take

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Speaker 2: this call, and I just decided to do it. And

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Speaker 2: I felt exciting and it felt great. You know, I

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Speaker 2: was able to stay at my friend's house while I

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Speaker 2: was there, going the five day this mansion in the Palisades.

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Speaker 2: It was so fancy, so fabulous, you know, like I

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Speaker 2: had never been in a mansion before. Are you kidding me? Like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: I mean it was awesome. I felt like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I have made it. Like here, I am to move

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Speaker 2: to La in a in two months, and I'm already

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Speaker 2: at this mansion with these people talking about these highbrow

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Speaker 2: conversations like dealing with my childhood trauma. But I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: my childhood trauma ended up coming out in an EM

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Speaker 2: and that was pretty profound for me, and that kind

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Speaker 2: of like it was my first EM and I had

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Speaker 2: this profound regression of what had happened, recounting it all,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I hadn't really thought about it, and

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Speaker 2: I knew something had happened to me that was dark

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Speaker 2: and I could see it, but I couldn't tangibly remember

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Speaker 2: it throughout my life. And I think it was a

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Speaker 2: way of like self preservation. It was a way to

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Speaker 2: cope with it, but it was ultimately always there and

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Speaker 2: the am brought it out in full force. One of

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Speaker 2: the things that I really want to drive home is

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Speaker 2: that we did the work, like we created the community.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't Keith, you know, and I feel like they

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Speaker 2: wanted to put him on this pedestal that he was

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Speaker 2: the one creating the community. Was like, no, everybody was

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Speaker 2: doing the work on themselves. Keith was maybe a catalyst

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Speaker 2: for that, and he was offering some tools to help

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Speaker 2: get you there. But I was the one who decided

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Speaker 2: I'm going to have a relationship with my father now right.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to give them the credit, right because

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Speaker 2: I made that choice. You know. Did they give me education?

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Speaker 2: Did they give me tools to see that option? Yes?

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Speaker 2: But it's not something I couldn't have gotten anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: You know. Oftentimes a lot of this was just blatantly

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Speaker 2: taken out of psychology because Nancy first and foremost was

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Speaker 2: a behavioralist and studied that, you know, And so it's

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Speaker 2: like those are in textbooks, those those kind of belief

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Speaker 2: systems are.

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Speaker 5: So tell us about your journey into Jenness the program

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Speaker 5: for women, and also tell us about your relationship with

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Speaker 5: Alison Mack. Alison Mack, for anyone just catching up, is

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Speaker 5: the actress from Smallville who's now in prison for perpetrating

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Speaker 5: some of the sex trafficking slavery crimes against the other

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Speaker 5: women that Keith Rannary, the leader, was orchestrating.

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Speaker 2: Alison and I were friendly. I mean, she was definitely

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Speaker 2: somebody I g chatted a lot and you know, and I,

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Speaker 2: you know, would reach out to her for certain things,

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Speaker 2: and she was always there, and that was the thing.

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Speaker 2: She was always there, and I always felt like, wow,

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Speaker 2: like here's this actress like taking the time out of

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Speaker 2: her life to like talk to me about whatever it

355
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Speaker 2: is that I was confused about. And it was never

356
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Speaker 2: really about the curriculum. Was always just about my life

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Speaker 2: or whatever, you know, or just something or just wanting

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Speaker 2: to chat. And so she was very warm and was

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Speaker 2: very open and that does that did feel good. And

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Speaker 2: I didn't really learn about the subject of love bombing

361
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Speaker 2: until like a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 5: Can you actually describe it? Because I feel like it's

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Speaker 5: a new term for some people.

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Speaker 2: It's the idea of somebody going and showering you with praise, admiration,

365
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Speaker 2: phone calls, support, everything that you need and want and

366
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Speaker 2: crave in life, right, we're all craving that attention and

367
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 2: support and love me kind of thing. And then once

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Speaker 2: they sign once you sign up, once you get in,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's like it's like the yoga class, it's like, oh,

370
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Speaker 2: just just buy this one class. Just oh, it's only

371
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Speaker 2: forty it's forty percent off. Don't worry, we'll get you.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yes. And then once they you sign up,

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Speaker 2: once they've got your money, it's like bye, it's like

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Speaker 2: you've gotten oh no, no, no, my god, this other girl.

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Speaker 2: Have you met her? She's so amazing, isn't she amazing?

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Speaker 5: But oh, okay, yeah.

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Speaker 2: She's cool, Like okay, and then you're like waiting for

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Speaker 2: them to call and waiting for them. You know, that

379
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 2: happened to one of my friends. You know, she moved

380
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Speaker 2: to Albany and they love bombed her. She recruited a

381
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Speaker 2: bunch of people, and then once she got to Aubne

382
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Speaker 2: I learned that they just kind of left her high

383
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 2: and dry and were like, okay, yeah, we got you,

384
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Speaker 2: we got you in good luck. And it's like I'm

385
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Speaker 2: on to the next person to recruit, who has more

386
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,199
Speaker 2: to offer the company the indoctrination was so subtle. I

387
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Speaker 2: think with ESP, you know, we'd have these things called

388
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Speaker 2: modules where you know, you would just speak about the topics.

389
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Speaker 2: It felt really I don't know, it just felt really

390
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 2: high brow. It felt like, you know, an opportunity to

391
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Speaker 2: talk about subjects that people don't really talk about together

392
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Speaker 2: in a social setting. That was the draw for ESP.

393
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Speaker 2: For a lot of people, it was this idea of

394
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Speaker 2: exploring these topics and talking about these things, you know.

395
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Speaker 2: And my one of my issues with the organization, especially

396
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 2: because I was in Geness. I was in Really I

397
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 2: liked ESP, but Jeness is really like the draw for me,

398
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,719
Speaker 2: just in terms of financially it was not that expensive,

399
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Speaker 2: and I was able to connect with women and I

400
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 2: still have friendships with these women. I mean, I feel

401
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 2: like we connected on a different level than just like

402
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 2: let's go out and go shopping or drink or dance

403
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,919
Speaker 2: or whatever. It is, like, you know, we were sitting

404
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 2: around talking about these topics, meanwhile forming bonds, sharing and

405
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,880
Speaker 2: you know, talking about our lives in that setting as well.

406
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 2: But it was like this accountability that was always the

407
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,880
Speaker 2: underneath it all that we could help each other with,

408
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 2: you know, and so it felt like these friendships were real,

409
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 2: you know. And it's not that it wasn't real with

410
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 2: my other friends. It was just a different kind of friendship.

411
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 2: It was just a different place where I knew I

412
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 2: could get I could get open feedback about something that

413
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 2: I was going through, and they weren't going to like

414
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 2: bullshit me. You know, they were going to tell me

415
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 2: how it is, and I knew it. You know.

416
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 5: What were some of the topics that you guys would

417
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 5: talk about, Like what what were those conversations like.

418
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,479
Speaker 2: Every month we were given a set of questions. At

419
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,400
Speaker 2: the beginning, it was just words, and then they started

420
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 2: combining them to how men and women view and handle

421
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 2: this particular word. And for instance, it could be I

422
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 2: don't know, protection and theft, and the words would always

423
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,400
Speaker 2: kind of they would mirror each other in some way

424
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 2: or they would be connected in some way. So you'd

425
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 2: be like, oh, how does a man handle protection and

426
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 2: how does a woman handle it? You know, like we

427
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 2: have pepper spray on our on our keychains. You know,

428
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 2: men don't have to have that, you know, I think, like,

429
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 2: you know, things like that, So we'd re formally talk

430
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 2: about what that means and what that looks like, you know,

431
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 2: for a man to handle this particular subject. I mean,

432
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 2: and it could be love and through it all, Like,

433
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Speaker 2: there were sometimes where I would leave feeling really horrible

434
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Speaker 2: about myself about how women were and how were these characterless,

435
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 2: kind of free flowing people who used our sex to

436
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: get what we wanted. And we were weaker than men,

437
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 2: you know obviously, I mean yes, physiologically we are, duh,

438
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 2: you know, but like it was just our characters were weak,

439
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 2: and you know, and and and it was so subtle.

440
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: You know, these things are so subtle. It's not like

441
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: they just like outwardly said yeah, wait blah batye blah.

442
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 4: It was.

443
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: It was aired within you know, a twenty minute you know,

444
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: dissertation on you know, protection, and I don't know, it's

445
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 2: so hard without having like the thing in front of me,

446
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: but you know, the different words. It didn't necessarily have

447
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: to be about love. And ultimately I was a lot

448
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 2: of the times the one in the room going like,

449
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: that's not how it is for me. I don't believe that.

450
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: Then they would oftentimes say, well, this is just the

451
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: core female and the core male without having the life

452
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: experience around it, you know, because I grew up. My

453
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 2: mom remarried and my stepfather had five sons. You know,

454
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 2: my mom and dad had I had two older brothers,

455
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 2: so you know, I had seven brothers where I was

456
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 2: like around men a lot. So my experience was not

457
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: like I was this princess on a pedestal. You know.

458
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 2: I had to fight for food at the table, you

459
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like I had to fight to

460
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 2: say something, like I had to fight to be heard,

461
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: you know I And I didn't have to manipulate my

462
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 2: way to get it, you know. And my grandma like

463
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: blessed her. I think really like she's a woman that

464
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 2: I feel fine to have the most character. And so

465
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 2: a lot of the times when they were saying that

466
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: women don't have character, I look at my grandma, and

467
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: my grandma is like the matriarch of our family. Like

468
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 2: she worked so hard at the Sandy National Labs. You know,

469
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: she worked with the FBI. From the FBI, she went there.

470
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 2: My Grammar utilized the opportunity that she could to make

471
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: something of herself. So when I was listening to these

472
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: things that the organization were teaching us, I didn't subscribe

473
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: to it one hundred percent. And would I would oftentimes

474
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 2: say I don't believe that. Just fast forward really quick

475
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 2: to the trial and when one of the victims and

476
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: witnesses said that. Oftentimes when the group setting where they learn,

477
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: you know what the answer is for the four topics

478
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: or any topics of a module or anything, no one

479
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: would say anything. No one would raise their hand and

480
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 2: say I don't think so, because and especially as the

481
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: closer you get to the center, it's it's one of

482
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: those things that if everybody is going along with a thing,

483
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: if everybody believes the thing, and you're the only one,

484
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 2: seemingly the only one right who has some kind of

485
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: issue with it, are you going to like say no,

486
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 2: Are you going to say there's something wrong? When you

487
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 2: have have higher ups in an organization and you want

488
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: to start making money in this organization, and you want

489
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: to start being somebody in this organization, and yet you're

490
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 2: hearing something you're like, eh, I'm not really sure that

491
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: is the truth, or I don't know if I should

492
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 2: maybe that's not right, or I have an issue with that.

493
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: You don't say anything, of course, because you don't want

494
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 2: to ruffle the feathers. You don't want to ruin your

495
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: opportunity to move higher up to start getting paid with

496
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: the organization. I feel like that was a huge issue

497
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 2: with a lot of people, and for me it was

498
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: I wasn't you know, I thought about being a coach,

499
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: but it wasn't really something that was a driving force

500
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 2: for me. I mean a lot of I was, you know,

501
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: coming out of college. A lot of my friends weren't rich.

502
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: A lot of them are from different countries, and so

503
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: spending thousands of dollars on an organization when they had

504
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: to either pay their lawyer to stay in the country

505
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: and or you know, their school or whatever, it just

506
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 2: wasn't something that seemed feasible for them, you know. And

507
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: so I think in a lot of ways, like I

508
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 2: was a subject of my peers to help me not

509
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 2: get in deeper in the organization. You know, I didn't.

510
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 2: I didn't know a lot of people in LA who

511
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: I could recruit. And that's how you move up, right,

512
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 2: The more people you recruit, the higher up you go.

513
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: So did you live in Albany, I did not know.

514
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: I went to vveg once and right when I first

515
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: took my first five day in two thousand and seven,

516
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: and I mean I loved V week. I thought Vwig

517
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: was awesome, you know in so many ways. You start

518
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 2: your morning at six am and you end it like

519
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: at midnight, and you're doing all these amazing things like singing,

520
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: chess classes, writing, poetry, drum like all the stuff. You know.

521
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: It's like like it like it's what it is in seduced,

522
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: you know, and it's like a camphor adults. You know.

523
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: It looked fun as hell.

524
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so fun, you know, but underlying it

525
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: was so weird for me because again, like I didn't

526
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: know anybody, you know, I was recruited really you know,

527
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 2: kind of quickly, and then I did the five day

528
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: and then I did the week. You know, it was

529
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: kind of so I knew some people, but nobody really well.

530
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 2: So for me it was I was like this fly

531
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: on the wall, always trying to figure out like what

532
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 2: who these people were. And I'm like, well, you know,

533
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 2: Keith and Nancy are together? Right? No? No, no, no,

534
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: they're not. They're not. And I'm like, but they like

535
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 2: have to be like dating or married like that just

536
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: makes sense to be No, no, no, Keith doesn't renunciate.

537
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: Keith is a renunciate. He he doesn't have sex, like

538
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: all this stuff, and I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna

539
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: find out. I was like, I'm go an find out.

540
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna I'm like renunci at my ass like

541
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: what he doesn't drive. I'm like that sounds shady, Like

542
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: that sounds like he doesn't want to have his name

543
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 2: on anything, just in case it goes down. And I

544
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 2: came like the summer I came from the self help world,

545
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: you know, where I was like around a lot of

546
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: big names.

547
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: Did you have much direct interaction with him?

548
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: No, I met him once en V week. Okay, so

549
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: Keith has a there's this thing that I think a

550
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: lot of sociopaths. Okay, now I'm getting real deep into

551
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 2: my my self here. I I worked with Trump Trump.

552
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: I worked with Donald Trump. Yeah, and I remember seeing

553
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: him for the first time and we were backstage, and

554
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 2: there's like a magnetism to these people. Okay, Like there's

555
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 2: a reason why these people have followers. Okay, They're not

556
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 2: just like some Joe Schmoe off the street. You know,

557
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: they have a magnetism. So I'll talk about Donald Trump, like,

558
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: and the first time I saw him, you know, we're backstage,

559
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: and I just felt this presence. I felt this thing

560
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: and I was just like like, and I turn around

561
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: and there he is. He's a very tall man, and

562
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: his hair like glows because the lights hidden. I'm not hidding.

563
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: I'm really not kidding, because he's so tall and the

564
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 2: lights are so low, you know, backstage, so his hair

565
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: is like glowing. He's like that lit and I'm just like,

566
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: and I'm not I wasn't a Donald Trump like fan.

567
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: This is like right at the height of The Apprentice,

568
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: you know, right all to connected. I was like going

569
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: to esp and working this job ball oh and yeah.

570
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: It was so weird and and so and I'm like

571
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: looking at him and I was like, huh huh, yeah,

572
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: I see it. I could say where people like him

573
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: like I could see. I'm like, ooh, yeah, he's got

574
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 2: he's got something, you know whatever. You know. It's it's

575
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: that's a whole story in and of itself. But so

576
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: then I meet Keith and it's right before one of

577
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 2: his forums. So during V week he has he's teaching

578
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: the modules, but then he has this one forum where

579
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: you can ask him any question, you know, and everybody's there,

580
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: and you know, and I had I was waiting. I

581
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: don't know, to sit or and I see Keith and

582
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: Nancy and I might have been waiting just to see

583
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: him because I wanted to see him up close, you know.

584
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 2: And I know he did his like late night volleyball sessions,

585
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: but it was this was two thousand and seven, and

586
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 2: I wasn't in the community. I was new, you know,

587
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: and I knew he was doing volleyball, but I think

588
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 2: you had to be invited or something, and I just

589
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: wasn't into doing. Like I was like, I'm not good

590
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: at volleyball. I'm not very sportsy person, so like I

591
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: don't want to go and make a fool of myself.

592
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: But so I was like, oh, this is my opportunity

593
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: to kind of like see him up close, you know,

594
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: and meet him. So it's outside of the forum that

595
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: he's going to speak at, and Nancy's there, and there's

596
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: a film crew there filming his every move all times.

597
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: So there are all the film crews there and I'm

598
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: standing there and I, you know, am thinking about the

599
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: community and thinking about all those things that the embodiment

600
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: of VESP and like what they're doing and having this

601
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: amazing time all this. You know, I was at that

602
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: heightened place of like connection right, Like I was having

603
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: these late night conversations with people like I was, you know,

604
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 2: really seeing things in this new way. And he's like hi,

605
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: and I'm like hi, and I got emotional. I started

606
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: crying and I was just like, you know, just thank

607
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: you so much. And I thanked him, you know, and

608
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: I think he kissed me or something, and I was

609
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 2: just like, oh, look, looks up. I was trying to

610
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: figure him out. And like the whole time, I think

611
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: I was trying to figure him out. I was trying

612
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: to figure Nancy out. I was trying to figure it

613
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: all out because I'm like, there's something more to this,

614
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: to this that I'm seeing. That's when I first learned

615
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 2: about Jenness. Now, mind you, I had just come out

616
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: of the Five Day and it wasn't about men and

617
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: women at all. It was just about people exploring these

618
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: topics and there wasn't really anything going on in LA

619
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: at the time. So this is two thousand and seven,

620
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: and so I had a coach and she was actually

621
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: one of the Nixeam nine were the first people who

622
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: were like trying to like shed a light on what

623
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: was going on with ESP. It was hard to connect

624
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 2: with her so I didn't really utilize that service for

625
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: that year. You know, I was really busy traveling for work.

626
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: There wasn't really ongoing classes in LA, so I kind

627
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: of just like let ESP go away for a couple

628
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 2: of years. Then I I had learned around two ten,

629
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: twenty eleven, I learned that it was the center had

630
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: been being developed here in LA and that they were

631
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: having classes and what was called Ethos. It wasn't until

632
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: I had a breakup with someone in twenty twelve is

633
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: when I ended up going to one of the intro

634
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: weekends they had with Nancy. So she was teaching a module.

635
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: They would do that to kind of like bring in

636
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: new people and or people who like me, who had

637
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: taken classes but fell off. Alison Mack was there and

638
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 2: at the time, I was like I just felt like

639
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: really disconnected from women, and I really wanted to, you know,

640
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, I'm into this women's

641
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: group idea, Like I really need to be aroung women.

642
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: I'm all in. I want to do it. So Allison

643
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: was having a weekend and I ended up going. So

644
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: I was really full fledged into ETHOS from that point,

645
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: I think twenty eleven, so I did Ethos for a

646
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: year and a half Jeness until twenty seventeen, and I

647
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: never did the Genets tracks because that was twenty thousand dollars,

648
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: So you pay twenty thousand dollars for four weeks and

649
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: that's where so when Genests tracks came in, that's where

650
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 2: men and women would take them together. So I had

651
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: friends who were taking the five days and I found

652
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: out that the curriculum was really changed. They really started

653
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,479
Speaker 2: incorporating the men women difference. So that became really I

654
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: think the separation and the attraction for men being this

655
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: like disciplined person, you know, innately just from being born,

656
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 2: because because men aren't told to cry to get what

657
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: they want, and they're told God to you know, early on,

658
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: like they have to be like a man and do

659
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 2: this and that, and it's just like.

660
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: Uh huh okay, pew, you.

661
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: Can cry, and like that's how we get what we

662
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: want and we're manipulators and this and that. For me,

663
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: it was a slow progression into again I was that

664
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: person in the room going like h h, not me,

665
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: this isn't how I see it. Sometimes when Esther would

666
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: be there and or Allison, I was less inclined to

667
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: be outwardly defiant, and that's what they called it, being

668
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: defiant because a lot of times I just didn't want

669
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 2: to be the only one in the room saying something.

670
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: So they liked it face to face, but sometimes we

671
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: couldn't meet, so we would do it through Skype or

672
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: FaceTime or something before zoom, and I would mute myself

673
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 2: just so I wouldn't be like fuck that I would.

674
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 2: I would just be like, I'm going to mute myself

675
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 2: and then and then I'd be like.

676
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 5: Oh, if you're having these reactions, what makes you keep going?

677
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: It was the again I talked about the friendships that

678
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 2: I built right in Genese and these and accountability to

679
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: create this community that was well versed and I felt

680
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: like my voice did matter in this and they and

681
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: they would oftentimes say that. So in twenty fifteen, there

682
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: was a disquisition that was very weird. I mean there

683
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: were a lot that were weird. I do remember hearing

684
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 2: the one about like the children having you know, twelve

685
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 2: year olds in some places could have sex, you know,

686
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 2: men could have sex with them or you know, and

687
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: it's not seen as bad and things like that, and

688
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: like I was just like what the fuck. But the

689
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 2: way in which they were, the way in which they

690
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,760
Speaker 2: relay the information, it's very subtle. The indoctrination into making

691
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 2: people believe something isn't like, this is what we believe.

692
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: We believe in child sex, go do it. Like my

693
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: family's cult was, you know, they were outwardly like it's

694
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 2: okay to have sex with children.

695
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: God says it's okay.

696
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: You know none, you know. So it wasn't as black

697
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: and white with Nixium. It was more like exploring these topics.

698
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: So it made you comfortable talking abound this topic. So

699
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 2: he would plant the seed and then allow the seed

700
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: of thought to grow and become the truth of his

701
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: belief system, and be comfortable with the idea that, oh,

702
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: if you don't think this thing that happened to you

703
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 2: is wrong, and then society is telling you it's wrong,

704
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: is it wrong? You know? And that's oftentimes what he

705
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: would say. And that's the thing around the rape that

706
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: I really didn't like. So there was this disquisition. There

707
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: was some of those that I would just be like

708
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 2: what what wait, and then they would keep going on

709
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: and it would be layered and multi layered and all

710
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 2: these other things so then it was like, okay, so

711
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 2: they mean they're not really saying that that's okay, They're

712
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 2: they're just talking about it because it's in relation to.

713
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 5: Just exploring exploring a philosophical question. It is fucking smart.

714
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 5: It's like such a brilliant manipulation technique.

715
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: Just inch by inch by inch by inch.

716
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 2: You're indoctrinated. And well that's the idea of indoctrination, and

717
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: that's like, that's it's a slow mind melding of someone's

718
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: belief system coming into yours, changing your thoughts, changing the

719
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: way you think, and making you comfortable with something that

720
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: that is maybe possibly illegal. So there were things like

721
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 2: that that were going on for me, and I would

722
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: oftentimes talk to my friends and I'd be like, this

723
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: is fucking weird, you know, like they're talking about this,

724
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 2: they're talking about that. But I felt like I felt

725
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: like a certain responsibility to my friendship, Like we created

726
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: a mission statement, you know, one time, we put our

727
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 2: what we want for ourselves in a box and like

728
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: we were going to have a baby, and the baby

729
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: was that dream, and so we put it in a

730
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 2: box and we waited nine months and we had a

731
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 2: like a we had like a baby shower. My my

732
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 2: one of my friends like in the group, like bought

733
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 2: all this baby shower stuff.

734
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: And we read Oh my gosh, it was.

735
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: So I mean, so those are the kinds of things

736
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: that our friendship was doing. Every friendship was different, you know,

737
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: and our friendship did that and it connected us, it

738
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 2: bonded us. And then we read what we had written

739
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: to ourselves nine months prior and what we had achieved

740
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: and like just these little positive reinforcement which was beautiful

741
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, and it really you know,

742
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 2: compassionate to us. And so I felt this responsibility to

743
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: these women and to myself to keep pushing myself to

744
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: explore and to understand and to say, you know. So

745
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: there was this one disquisition that was just awful. It

746
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 2: was awful. There was like a racist joke in there.

747
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: It was a lot about BDSM and submission, and they

748
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 2: talked about this movie The Secretary, which was all about submissing,

749
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: you know, you know that one and BDSM, yes, And

750
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: it was just so dark talking about women like their sluts.

751
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: I think he used the word sled a couple of times,

752
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 2: and I was not okay with it. I was like,

753
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: this is fucked up. And so then they brought that

754
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 2: back to the wise counsel, which was the women there,

755
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 2: and I think they said, you know, like we didn't

756
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: like that. And then of course the next one we

757
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 2: had was just like super super fluffy and nice and whatever,

758
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: you know, and there was no darkness in it. But

759
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: that was twenty fifteen, and oddly enough, that's when DAWs was.

760
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: Being formed, right makes sense.

761
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: You know, And that's that's when Alison Mack was trying

762
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: to get me to do the Source, which was Alison

763
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 2: Mack's acting program to try to get me to New York,

764
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: and Mark too, both of them. Both of them were

765
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: trying to get me to do the Source. They sent

766
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: me all of the pamphlets they sent, you know, the

767
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 2: screen grabs of what the curriculum entailed options for stay.

768
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: Like.

769
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: My whole struggle was the financial aspect, you know. And

770
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 2: Mark never never once said to me, I can work

771
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 2: for the company for classes. I learned that from other

772
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 2: people because if I were to work for the company,

773
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 2: then he wouldn't get any money from me.

774
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 5: Oh wait, so he makes commission on you.

775
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 2: I see, yeah, when you're a green, I think when

776
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 2: you turn to green, I think or you become a

777
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: procter when you're orange. I think that's when you start

778
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: making money from you, from your people. Otherwise it's just

779
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 2: like you you sign people up and say I signed

780
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: two people up that I can go to that particular

781
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: course for free. And I you know, I told Mark,

782
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: I was like, listen, like I went back to school

783
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: to pursue acting. I have an acting degree and I

784
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 2: have debt from that. Like I can't like tell myself like, oh, yes,

785
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 2: I am going to spend now ten thousand dollars to

786
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: further my career with Alison Mack and Keith Bernieri Like

787
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: that to me just doesn't didn't sound like I'm going

788
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 2: to make it, you know. And then he would say,

789
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: you know, well there's a lot of people who've booked things,

790
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, fucking hope. So yeah, I'm like

791
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars eight days is a lot of money, Mark,

792
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: Like that's a lot of money. I mean, you know,

793
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 2: my school was like a little bit more than that, right,

794
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 2: And that was the whole year. And I was guaranteed

795
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 2: parts and like I you know, really I was guaranteed

796
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: meetings and it was the whole thing.

797
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 5: I love getting this perspective because it's just a different

798
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 5: story for the average person. These are not these like

799
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 5: are life ruining numbers I have.

800
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: I have friends still paying off credit card debt from

801
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: taking courses, you know. I mean, I'm lucky that I

802
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: didn't have like good credits credit A fucking note I did.

803
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 2: I would probably there too, because I would have been.

804
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 5: Like, well, sure, oh my god, it should automatically be

805
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 5: forgiven if your credit card debt is from.

806
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: Yeah next week.

807
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 4: I'm surprised it's not.

808
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: I know I read yeah. So I literally had to

809
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 2: tell him. I think at one point I might have said,

810
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: I'm like, Mark, I can't shit money. I think I

811
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 2: might have said that. I might have said poop, but

812
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't poop money. Mark, Like I'm sorry,

813
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: Like that's just not a thing for me. I wish

814
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: I could, because then I think I would be in

815
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 2: a different place and I would totally be there. And

816
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: I think at one point he even asked me how

817
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: much how much like student dead I had?

818
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: Wow?

819
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. He would always say, well, don't you see When

820
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 2: I would want to try to get me to recruit

821
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: other people, He's like, well, I'm like my friends don't

822
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 2: have any money either. They're broke and and and well,

823
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: don't you see that, you know that's just limitation and

824
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: that you can always find the money, my god? And

825
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, and that's when I said, Mark, I cannot

826
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: poop money. Like if I could, I would fucking be

827
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: the wealthiest woman on the planet, right, Like I can

828
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 2: figure out how to just generate money, like I'm I can't.

829
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 2: You know, I have a limitation in terms of how

830
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 2: much money I'm making at my job, how much money

831
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: i have to pay for my debt, and fucking the

832
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: other shit I want it in my life. And I'm sorry,

833
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: esp the source isn't one of them, right, you know,

834
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: isn't it something I'm going to try to put myself

835
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: further in debt for with the hopes of booking something

836
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 2: when there's no talent manager at the end, there's no

837
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 2: fucking you know, agent, and there's there's no recoup on

838
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: my investment. It's just like another thing that I'm going

839
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: to be putting myself into the whole more. I knew

840
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: that because I had been living in La long enough

841
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: to know that there is no pie in the sky

842
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 2: in this industry, you know, and nobody is going to

843
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: give you a free ride, you know, really, yeah, you know,

844
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 2: you have to work your fucking ask for it, and

845
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: you have to pay your dues, you know, you really

846
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: have to. You know you can't. No acting class is

847
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 2: going to get you through the door.

848
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 5: There's no secret magical key. And Alison Mack definitely didn't

849
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 5: have it if there was, or.

850
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: Keith Ranieri, you know, and like, because really it was

851
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: Keith Herniary teaching this, YadA YadA. I'm not going to

852
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 2: fucking spend that much. I'm like, I'm paying two sixty

853
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 2: to see a really good acting coach here in LA

854
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: who actually works with fucking big name right right. And

855
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 2: it was interesting, you know. And at the time, I

856
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 2: was kind of starting to distance myself from Jeness and

857
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: some of my friends in the group had left, they

858
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 2: were moving away, or they had moved away. So twenty

859
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 2: sixteen yells around and I try to leave and I'm like,

860
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 2: I'm done, but they're coming to my house.

861
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: Who's they?

862
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: So it was all the women in my Geness group,

863
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: some of them are still in ESP so they all

864
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 2: came love bombed me. One of the women I was

865
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: telling her, I was like Listen, I am not okay

866
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: with a lot of things in the organization, with a

867
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 2: lot of the philosophies. And she's like like, what, So

868
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: backtracking to my first EM, that's when my experience in

869
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: my sexual abuse had come out. And so for me,

870
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: every EM, every kind of thing is related back to that.

871
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 2: And Mark Vicente called me once and he was like,

872
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: I see that you don't do any ems. And I

873
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: told Mark, I was like, listen, I can kind of

874
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 2: get there on my own. Mark, like, I don't really

875
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 2: need to go through an exploration of meaning, because that's

876
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 2: what an EM means. I don't need to go through

877
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 2: that in order to know what the fuck is my shit?

878
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: You know, my shit is I was fucking raped when

879
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: I was a kid. I didn't tell him that, but

880
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: you know, it's like I was abused, you know, a

881
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 2: lot when I was a child in the other organization

882
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 2: that I was in. Like, I don't need to pay

883
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: someone one hundred and fifty dollars two hundred dollars to

884
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: like explore that. And he was just like, oh, well,

885
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 2: I think you can go deeper. I was just like yeah, Mark,

886
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: Like I'm you have no idea, you know, Like, yeah,

887
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: maybe I could go deeper, but you don't know how

888
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 2: deep I already go within myself, you know. You know,

889
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 2: I was just a little defiant, like I wasn't I

890
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: wasn't willing to just like take someone's word at face

891
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: value that I was fucked up. You know. It was like, okay,

892
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 2: I'm fucked up, thank you. So then oftentimes with one

893
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: of the girls, she would do em drills with me,

894
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 2: and you know, and one of them I remember was

895
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 2: I have a like princess complex. And so it's interesting

896
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 2: when I'm going back and after everything that happened, I'm

897
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 2: going back and I'm like seeing all these things, these

898
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 2: things that they're telling me, oh, I need more ems.

899
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: I have a princess complex. And that's a lot of

900
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: the things that they would tell women, you know, like

901
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 2: we have this entitlement aspect to us, like we are

902
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 2: so entitled because we were born women that we can

903
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 2: get whatever we want just because we're women, and we

904
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: can just play that card and then you know, showered

905
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: with gifts and showered with whatever. And I'm like that's

906
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 2: not my fucking experience. But okay, yeah, no, So I'm

907
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: sitting at the table before all the other women get

908
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: there and I'm like, I'm out, like I'm done. I

909
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 2: don't like this. I don't like that, And I really

910
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 2: don't like how they view rape, you know, they they

911
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: viewed rape. He viewed rape, he said one time. And

912
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: this story changed because I talked to other people about it,

913
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,439
Speaker 2: and his story had evolved. Initially, when I first heard

914
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: it was a woman came to him who had been

915
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 2: raped and she was having an issue with how physiologically

916
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 2: her body responded to the experience. She knew it was

917
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: bad and it was horrible, horrific, but physiologically her body

918
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: enjoyed it, right, So she was having a disconnect between

919
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: the enjoyment aspect of the body and the mind and

920
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 2: trying to figure that out. And so he evolved that

921
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 2: into women like rape and a rape that happens to

922
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: your body isn't happening to your mind. That it's whatever

923
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: happens to your body is just your body, it's not

924
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 2: your mind. Because everything was all about the physical, the thought,

925
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 2: and the emotional, right, And so when I was trying

926
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 2: to talk to Esther, and Esther is one of the

927
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: training trainers of Geness and very much into esp she

928
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: told me, you know, I was like, well, I'm having this.

929
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 2: I had had the exploration of meaning way back when

930
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 2: in my five day and then I'm doing my geness

931
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 2: training having all of those memories fled in and the

932
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 2: memories of what had happened to me, and like the

933
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: aftermath of it all and how I coped with it

934
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: as a child, and how it changed me, you know,

935
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: because in the family we all had to sleep naked.

936
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

937
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: And after that and after that happened, I didn't want

938
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: to sleep naked anymore, right, protection, I need protection. And

939
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: and I remember the next night after it happened, my

940
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 2: little my friend, you know, I had the covers up

941
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: to my neck, you know, and I had my nightgown

942
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 2: and under journeath and she's like, why are the covers

943
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: up to your neck? And I was like, I have

944
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: my nightgown on. Don't tell anyone. And she's like, okay,

945
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: I won't, you know, And you know, and after that

946
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: it was just like living in fear really, you know,

947
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: of like the bad thing that could happen again. You know.

948
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 2: I attribute that moment in my life to like growing

949
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 2: up and having this like being self aware. Like before

950
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 2: I think I was just a little kid, living a

951
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 2: life and then this horrible thing happens that like takes

952
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: you out of the innocence and then I'm seeing everything

953
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 2: for what it truly was.

954
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: Five years old.

955
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 2: I remember being in the room in one of those

956
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 2: rooms we were doing something with the group, you know,

957
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 2: in the Philippines, and i remember just thinking and I

958
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: see a camera and I'm like, oh my god, we're

959
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 2: being watched. Oh my god, we're like, you know, I'm

960
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: five years old, and I'm just but it was it

961
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: was this moment of like self being self aware and

962
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 2: being aware of my environment that I had never had before,

963
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 2: you know. And and so for me, like learning about

964
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: this idea of rape and that like it was okay

965
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: to feel good about it was something that like really

966
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: just affected me, you know. And She's just like, well,

967
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 2: it's okay if you felt good, and I'm like, no,

968
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 2: that's not what I'm saying. I'm like, I think I

969
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 2: fucking passed out. And it was a horrible, horrifying experience.

970
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 2: So like, you know, like, no, no, that's not where

971
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 2: I'm trying to go with this. I'm just trying to

972
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 2: get some clarity because I'm I'm having like issues with it.

973
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 2: I'm having issues with this em bringing me back to

974
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 2: that state and then not knowing how to cope with it,

975
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: not knowing how to understand it. And she's just kind

976
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: of dismissive, doesn't even look me in the eye when

977
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 2: she's talking to me about it, and it's just like, oh,

978
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 2: but it's okay, you know, like what's the worst that

979
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: could happen? That happened?

980
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that's so irresponsible with your trump.

981
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 2: Right, you know. And so I'm just like, oh, okay, yeah,

982
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 2: of course, like like you know, like don't talk about it.

983
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 2: So then I didn't ever bring it up ever. And

984
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 2: then slowly as the disquisitions were coming that that would

985
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 2: come back that idea of rape, that I that his

986
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 2: philosophy on rape, and then ultimately the story changed to

987
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 2: where she just enjoyed the rape.

988
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: She meaning the woman whose rape Keith had been talking about.

989
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 2: I often wonder if he was the one who raped

990
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 2: her mmmmm mmm. So then I'm having this conversation with

991
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 2: women and Jenness trying to tell her all these things,

992
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 2: and she is like, well, you know, this is why

993
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: we need you in this organization. It was all going

994
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 2: back to that love bombing. It was like she had

995
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: been educated in like helping someone get through their issues

996
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: and make me feel important, that I still my voice

997
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 2: was valuable in this, and like what I had to

998
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 2: offer by my experience could aid and educate others. So

999
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, well, yeah, of course, thank you

1000
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 2: for saying that and acknowledging my situation. All Right, I

1001
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 2: guess I'm staying, you know, because I need to be

1002
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 2: here to help teach these motherfuckers that no, rape is

1003
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 2: not good. And that's two different things. If you have

1004
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 2: a physiological response, it's still there's still pain after, there's

1005
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,280
Speaker 2: still a fucking violation. There's still an abuse that happened,

1006
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 2: and a mind fuck that happens, and you have to

1007
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 2: deal with all these things, you know, And it's like

1008
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: there's so many layers to this that it's not just

1009
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 2: one thing. Oh, if she enjoyed it, it's okay, Okay.

1010
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 5: This is a sensitive thing actually, and a common misconception.

1011
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 5: So for anyone who doesn't grasp this concept, it is

1012
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 5: more common than you think for women to have orgasms

1013
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 5: during rape. The body does not, as that one ignorant

1014
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 5: man said, just shut it down and arassal response can

1015
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 5: happen even when someone is distressed and in pain and afraid,

1016
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 5: and it doesn't mean that she wants it, and it

1017
00:52:58,120 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 5: doesn't mean it's her fault. And I'm not gonna get

1018
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,439
Speaker 5: to studies here. Maybe we'll talk about it another time,

1019
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 5: but you can google it like a grown ass adult.

1020
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,919
Speaker 2: So and then she's giving me this platform to have

1021
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:14,280
Speaker 2: my voice in this subject and to voice my issues

1022
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 2: with the organization and to say, well, isn't this the

1023
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: kind of community that you want to build where there's transparency,

1024
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: where we can talk about things like this, where you're

1025
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: being heard and all this stuff, and you know. And

1026
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: I was like, well, yeah, yeah, this is all I want.

1027
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 2: So all the women came over. It was beautiful disquisition

1028
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 2: that time, and I stayed in Now that was I

1029
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 2: think April of twenty sixteen, so I had stayed in jeness,

1030
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: but was kind of distancing myself. Even after that conversation.

1031
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 2: I was still kind of like, I don't know. I

1032
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 2: had been all the while trying to build the community

1033
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 2: and trying to bring forth this women's group in a

1034
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 2: real way and do some real good. Several years back,

1035
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 2: I had done the Vagina Monologues and they didn't want

1036
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 2: to be attached to it because the Vagina Monologues were

1037
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 2: seen to them as seeing women as victims. And I

1038
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 2: was like, have they rent the Vagina Monologs? Because it's

1039
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 2: all about empowering yourself by being a woman, and these

1040
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 2: intricacies of womenhood that are hard to deal with but

1041
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: yet make us who we are. And that's when I knew.

1042
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 2: Ultimately I kind of had this feeling. I was like,

1043
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: all right, they have other things at play. So a

1044
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 2: friend of mine left Albany, and then I learned that

1045
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 2: Bonnie had left, and so then she and I and

1046
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 2: Bonnie were all kind of friends. Mark was still very

1047
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 2: much in and I was trying to help Bonnie by

1048
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 2: giving her information because my dad was, you know, in

1049
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 2: occult and my mom was out, you know, and so

1050
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 2: I was really trying to help her, like listen, you

1051
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 2: can't do this. You can't you know, you can't get

1052
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 2: angry at him, like his way of thinking is still

1053
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 2: very much this way, and you know, you can only

1054
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: be supportive and help him see certain aspects of the

1055
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 2: organization that aren't necessarily good. And we didn't know the layers.

1056
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 2: We didn't know at the time what DOS was. We

1057
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 2: knew he was sleeping with everybody, but we didn't know

1058
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:13,280
Speaker 2: about DOS.

1059
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 5: Remember, for anyone who's not caught up on the next

1060
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 5: same stuff. DOS was the secret organization within the organization

1061
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 5: in which Keith orchestrated essentially an abusive pyramid of sex

1062
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 5: slaves who were being trafficked and physically branded.

1063
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 2: We learned about DOS from one of our friends, Deb

1064
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 2: she's actually inseduced, and one of the women in our friendship,

1065
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 2: in Jeness, invited her into DOS without saying what DOS was,

1066
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 2: and said that she would need collateral and she's just like, yeah, no,

1067
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: I'm not I don't want that. And then had seen

1068
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 2: a phone you know, I love you my Master on

1069
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 2: and she was staying with her that night, and so

1070
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 2: I was like, So the next day she calls and

1071
00:55:58,440 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: she's telling us this, and I'm like, oh my god,

1072
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 2: I'd come to my house like fuck this shit, you know.

1073
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 2: And at the time we didn't know it was called

1074
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 2: DOSS obviously, so I was like, what is this the

1075
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 2: master program? You know, because at the time they had

1076
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 2: developed this new curriculum, it was two years, sixty thousand dollars.

1077
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,320
Speaker 2: It's more money than Harvard okay, and a lot of

1078
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 2: people signed up. Some people quit their job, their amazing,

1079
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 2: fucking career defining job to take this two year program.

1080
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: Wow.

1081
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: So that all the while that's happening, you know, and

1082
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: I'm learning about all these things, the unraveling of ESP

1083
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 2: and like try and wrap my mind around the ethical

1084
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: company that it touts itself to be, meanwhile trying to

1085
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: help mark it out. So then it was a series

1086
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: of little things that happened to help mark it out.

1087
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 2: And so he gets out and we learn about what

1088
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 2: DOS really is, and then we learn about the branding.

1089
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 2: And I was on a hike with Bonnie and my

1090
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,720
Speaker 2: other friend and I was thinking about all the women

1091
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 2: in ESP and all the younger women, and I was like,

1092
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 2: oh my god. And I just remember India and I

1093
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 2: was like, somebody's got to call Catherine. I don't know

1094
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 2: her well enough to be like your daughter's in a

1095
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 2: fucking dangerous cult and they're branding women, you know, Like

1096
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 2: I just didn't feel I was the right one to

1097
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 2: do that. And then my friend was like, well, she's

1098
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 2: with our friend in Mexico right now, and I was

1099
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 2: like perfect, Like this is great, Like we fucking someone's

1100
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 2: got to call her, so Bonnie called her. I didn't

1101
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 2: know Catherine that well, but I had taken some classes

1102
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: with her in Janess and in ESP and I just

1103
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 2: there was some a series of things that happened with

1104
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 2: India that I had seen, you know, like the time

1105
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 2: where she wanted to go work out of town and

1106
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 2: work on a film. I had seen Mark yell at her,

1107
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 2: and I was like a fly up, you know, after

1108
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 2: one night and I was like putting stuff away and

1109
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 2: I was like, this is weird. Like I thought these

1110
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 2: people were so fucking nice, and here they are like

1111
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 2: all surrounding you know, this young girl and they're adults,

1112
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: you know, and they're all looked so like big. And

1113
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 2: she's just like, well, I mean, I got this job

1114
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 2: with my family and I'm going out of town. And

1115
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 2: he's like, well, you really need to tell us you

1116
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 2: have a responsibility by being a coach, and da da

1117
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 2: da da da. And I was just like wow. And

1118
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 2: like I think Mark got emotional at that point, like

1119
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: it was really weird, and I'm like I didn't think

1120
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 2: that they I don't think they saw that I was

1121
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 2: there still. I was just being really quiet, kind of listening.

1122
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: So there were little things like that that I you know,

1123
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 2: and I just was like, someone's got to fucking tell her.

1124
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 2: Someone's got to tell Catherine, you know. And then I

1125
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 2: was like, can we call Mindy? Can we call Alison Maximom?

1126
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 2: And they were like no, no, no, Alison's too far in,

1127
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 2: Like Allison's like done, and normally like, okay, well I

1128
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 2: called Mindy, you did? Yeah? Yeah, I called her May

1129
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 2: of twenty seventeen.

1130
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: How did that go?

1131
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 2: It was before everything had been blown up? Okay, so

1132
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 2: there was any New York Times article. There wasn't anything.

1133
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 2: And it was good, actually it was. It was sad

1134
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 2: and it was scary, and I just like I felt

1135
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 2: really bad, you know, being the one to tell her

1136
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 2: because I knew things, but I didn't know everything yet. Again,

1137
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 2: things were being unraveled. It wasn't It was a slow

1138
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 2: progression of understanding what the true nature of this organization was,

1139
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 2: you know, Like I mean, I didn't even know about

1140
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 2: Danielle and the sisters until after, you know, much after

1141
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 2: the fact that he had a woman walked up in

1142
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 2: a room for two years Daniella Danielle, right right, yeah, Daniella, Yeah,

1143
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: saying her name. The saddest thing for me with Allison

1144
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 2: is that, like, you know where she's at and what

1145
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: she did. I mean, we talked about born into brothels

1146
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 2: one time, that documentary about you know, young girls being

1147
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 2: born into brothels in India, you know, and it was

1148
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 2: it's a beautiful documentary. But it's like it's not like

1149
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 2: she's dumb and doesn't know oh these things, but it's

1150
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: just like she was so indoctrinated, she was so involved

1151
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 2: invested into Keith Ornary that she lost sight of herself,

1152
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 2: of the truth of the good. And so when I

1153
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 2: was talking to Mindy just going back to that, I

1154
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: didn't know everything, but I felt a responsibility that Mindy

1155
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 2: should know because it was like maybe she could get

1156
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 2: to her and my conscience. Like I feel that at

1157
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 2: least I tried, at least there was somebody to give

1158
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 2: her heads up before everything blew up, that she could

1159
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 2: have flown her daughter the hell out of there and

1160
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 2: been like, all right, just come back home with me.

1161
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 2: There's you know, And I was hoping that that would happen.

1162
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 2: I was like, just keep an eye on her, and

1163
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 2: she's like, well, what are they doing? I think all

1164
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 2: sleeping with Keith, and I'm like, yeah, they are. And

1165
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 2: she's like, well, they're adult women, they can do whatever

1166
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 2: they want. And I'm like it's true. But you know,

1167
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 2: there's there's some things that are happening in the organization

1168
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 2: that aren't in line with the philosophies that the organization

1169
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 2: claims to be and a lot of people are getting

1170
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 2: hurt and like what like what And I'm like, well, like,

1171
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 2: I know it sounds scary, and I'm not trying to

1172
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 2: scare you, but i am trying to like tell you

1173
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 2: that you need to keep an eye on her, you

1174
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: need to like get her out.

1175
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: Of all the not that she could if she didn't

1176
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 1: want to go anyway.

1177
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 2: I know, I know it's so hard. So yeah, So again,

1178
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 2: it was a slow progression of slow evolution into exposing

1179
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: this cult. You know, it was really through Catherine's, Sarah's,

1180
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 2: Bonnie's and we'll say some mark was in there. You know,

1181
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 2: it was really through those women's actions, because it was

1182
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 2: Bonnie initially feeling something's wrong. It was reaching out to

1183
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: Catherine and getting Catherine involved. It was Sarah realizing what

1184
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 2: had happened to her and what she was involved in,

1185
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 2: and you know, and then I think kind of saving

1186
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 2: his behind, you know, and trying to do the right

1187
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 2: thing and be on the right side of history, you know.

1188
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 2: And it's like, I don't think Mark is ultimately a

1189
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 2: bad person. Everybody served a purpose because when Mark left,

1190
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 2: a lot of the women followed suit and felt comfortable

1191
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 2: enough to reach out to Mark because he was so

1192
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 2: high up in the echelon. So once he left, it

1193
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 2: was like people felt safe enough to be like, oh

1194
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 2: my god, I have felt that there's something wrong with

1195
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 2: this and this happened to me.

1196
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: So Keith gets arrested.

1197
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 5: He's not been convicted, as we know, but he didn't

1198
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 5: admit to anything.

1199
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: At first.

1200
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 2: He initially said that he has no part of this

1201
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 2: was on their website. They had no part of being

1202
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 2: part of DOS. He had no part of anything. It

1203
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: was a women's sorority and they were one hundred percent

1204
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 2: creating it themselves and he had nothing to do with it.

1205
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 2: And then it was those flash drives, those talking because

1206
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 2: everybody recorded everything he had to say, which ultimately led

1207
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 2: to his downfall, you know, and led to the fact

1208
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 2: that he was part of it all.

1209
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: I mean, he was at the top of it all.

1210
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 2: He was he was the grand master, yeah, the organization,

1211
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 2: and he was at the helm of it all.

1212
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm interested to know what you do now

1213
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 4: and what you kind of the community you've created for

1214
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 4: yourself and if you're ever scared, you know, like somebody

1215
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 4: else might come in and manipulate you again.

1216
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. I had one guy comment and was

1217
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 2: just like, I don't know. It was something stupid about

1218
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 2: how I could be vulnerable to joining two colts. It's

1219
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 2: just like, oh, fuck yourself, Like way you don't have Like,

1220
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I get it. It's it's hard for people

1221
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 2: to wrap their minds around because how could you be

1222
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 2: susceptible something like that, like oh you're so weak And

1223
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 2: it's like no, no, Yes. On the surface, it feels

1224
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 2: like get that, But there's so much more. There's so

1225
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 2: much more to unpack. There's so many more layers involved

1226
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 2: in these kinds of things, especially I think in this

1227
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 2: day and age where it's not necessarily about religion and

1228
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 2: it's more about like becoming you know, your best self

1229
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 2: or meditation or yoga.

1230
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 4: Totally, like we're just seeing the beginning of the results

1231
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,919
Speaker 4: of self help cults. You know, I didn't even really

1232
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 4: know they existed, nor did probably you where it's just

1233
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 4: you just think you're doing something completely different than your

1234
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 4: childhood because yeah.

1235
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 5: Because it's not religious, it's yeah, or it seems to

1236
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 5: be about like interrogating what's going on within you. So

1237
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 5: how could that be bad to like unpack all of

1238
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 5: your trauma. Of course it's going to feel different.

1239
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 2: So I always would collect these little nuggets of information

1240
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 2: and things that happened along the way because and I

1241
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 2: think really at the heart of it, because of what

1242
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 2: happened to me, because of what my parents went through,

1243
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 2: because of the controlling environment that I was raised in

1244
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,919
Speaker 2: from the beginning, you know. So what I'm doing now

1245
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: is through this documentary and through kind of exploring my

1246
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 2: own healing and the lack thereof that happened with my

1247
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 2: family and what happened with me, you know, because with NIXIM,

1248
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 2: I wasn't necessarily super in, you know, I didn't invest

1249
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 2: that much money, let them have it. But through going

1250
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 2: to IXA, which is the it's like this cult conference,

1251
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 2: which is where I met your mom. I spoke with

1252
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 2: that woman Christina, who is also in the family, who

1253
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 2: you know, she's doing amazing work. So she's from Italy,

1254
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 2: and in Italy they have a cult police force, and

1255
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 2: she helps people who are being radicalized by extremist groups,

1256
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 2: which is the same thing as you know, cults. This

1257
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 2: is the thing when someone has no oversight and they

1258
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 2: have ultimate authority. What could happen and what happens? I mean,

1259
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 2: we're seeing it now with our presidency. You know, it's

1260
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 2: it's it gets on that scale of dictatorship. For me,

1261
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 2: it's it's been a hard road in terms of exploring

1262
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 2: my own heel and watching Seduce was triggering in a

1263
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 2: lot of ways for me, just in terms of seeing

1264
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 2: the other side of someone else's healing and how beautiful

1265
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 2: India story and her mother's story and how much work

1266
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 2: that her mom did to get Nixium exposed was, you know,

1267
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 2: so amazing and so relentless, you know. And I commend

1268
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 2: them both, and I commend Catherine for never giving up.

1269
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 2: But not everybody is a celebrity, and not everybody has

1270
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 2: that platform where the papers are going to listen and

1271
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 2: the papers are going to even care, you know, So

1272
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 2: how do you do that? How do you create a

1273
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 2: police task force to help with the radicalization of certain

1274
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 2: groups when you're living in a country where you can't

1275
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 2: question religion. So I spoke to a local lawmaker here

1276
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 2: and she told me if she were to take this

1277
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 2: subject on of expanding the undue influenced law that protects

1278
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 2: the elderly and children but doesn't really protect people eighteen

1279
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 2: to sixty five, you know, she would have had to

1280
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 2: have paused her entire campaign and focus solely on on

1281
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 2: this campaign. I wish that more celebrities and more people

1282
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 2: of stature who are part of these organizations, and even

1283
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 2: if they didn't have anything to do with anything bad,

1284
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 2: they just took a class. They just took a course

1285
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 2: their voice and saying hey, yeah, I took a course

1286
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 2: in this, and you know, I thought it was weird.

1287
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 2: I spent X amount of dollars. I thought it was

1288
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 2: kind of cool for some things, but then you know,

1289
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 2: I just didn't fit my lifestyle this that and the other,

1290
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 2: and I you know, I want to let you know

1291
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 2: that people like me, people in this level of success,

1292
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 2: also can take these these courses and also do these things.

1293
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 2: And there's no oversight committee on nonprofits. You know, you

1294
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 2: can claim yourself to be a nonprofit and have a

1295
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 2: lot of shady shit going on and there's nobody looking

1296
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:56,919
Speaker 2: at it. This is where I think I can start

1297
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 2: maybe getting people to listen because the religion asked and

1298
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 2: protecting people on these religious groups like scientology and things

1299
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 2: like that. It's just really hard. Nobody wants to take

1300
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 2: it on. Not in America, not in this time, I mean,

1301
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 2: but maybe with the cult of Trump. And I think

1302
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 2: this dialogue and having this conversation with you is going

1303
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 2: to help. I think for me, it's a matter of

1304
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 2: trying to find the right people to align myself with

1305
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 2: someone will who is willing to take this on and say, Okay, yeah,

1306
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 2: we need federally, federally, not just statewide, because a lot

1307
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 2: of these organizations and what they do is they'll commit

1308
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 2: the crime or something bad will happen in California and

1309
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 2: then they'll just move. There's an organization right now with

1310
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,679
Speaker 2: the leader. Her name is Mom, and it's I think

1311
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 2: called We Are One. I believe there's two girls that

1312
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 2: are missing right now.

1313
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,559
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, missing. I gotta google that.

1314
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 2: And they've been in Oregon, Colorado, and Texas and now

1315
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 2: they're in Colorado and everybody knows about them. Where are

1316
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 2: these women, you know? And where's the oversight committee on

1317
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 2: this organization. They're nonprofit and literally on their website they

1318
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 2: have a place for we have not been endorsed by

1319
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:10,520
Speaker 2: a celebrity. What would it look like if this organization

1320
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 2: was endorsed by a celebrity, we would get way more followers? Right,

1321
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 2: Like this idea of influence, this idea of utilizing the

1322
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 2: celebrity aspect with what created esp and what ultimately I

1323
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 2: think brought it down right because of Catherine celebrity and

1324
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:30,879
Speaker 2: Sarah Edmondson celebrity. People listened because they were somebody totally.

1325
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 5: I mean, well, I think this is an awesome mission

1326
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 5: you're taking on, and I am happy to help however

1327
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 5: I can. Let's find some celebrity. Yes, it's going to happen,

1328
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:42,360
Speaker 5: I mean, largely thanks to Nexium being exposed. I think

1329
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 5: there's a there's really a moment happening right now where

1330
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 5: people are becoming aware of course of control in ways

1331
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 5: that they really weren't before. I'm hearing people have conversations

1332
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,759
Speaker 5: now about how anyone can be susceptible to a cult

1333
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 5: in a way that five years ago absolutely nobody was saying.

1334
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 2: In Europe, there's a lot against course of control, but

1335
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 2: it's only relating to one on one relationships like a spouse, boyfriend,

1336
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 2: things like that. So so in broadening that idea of

1337
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 2: course of control and broadening the idea that this type

1338
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 2: of abuse is happening in businesses, it's happening in schools,

1339
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 2: it's happening in families, it's happening in religion, it's happening

1340
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,600
Speaker 2: in self help groups, it's happening in yoga studios, like

1341
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 2: acting courses, in these improv groups. I think, really what

1342
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 2: we what needs to happen is there needs to be

1343
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 2: more protection for the adults. Young people are more susceptible

1344
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 2: because they're trying to figure out who they are. They're

1345
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 2: trying to figure out their place in the world. They

1346
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 2: want to do good in the world. They want to

1347
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 2: they want to make something of themselves. This kind of

1348
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:47,560
Speaker 2: dialogue and making it seem more normal is really important,

1349
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 2: and if anything, it should give people more fortitude to

1350
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 2: be like, oh my god, that happened to me too,

1351
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 2: and that's what I'm seeing. Thank you so much ladies

1352
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:59,440
Speaker 2: for having me. I appreciate having this discussion.

1353
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:01,240
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. This was awesome.

1354
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 5: Alright, Megan, here's the thing we've talked about next to

1355
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,400
Speaker 5: him before. Yeah, and we have talked about the children

1356
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 5: of God before. So I guess I kind of already

1357
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 5: know whether or not you joined this cult. But maybe

1358
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 5: the question here is would you join this specific version

1359
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 5: of it where Mark Vicente is calling you up.

1360
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 1: And telling you that he will make you a successful actress.

1361
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 5: He won't, but that you will become a successful actress

1362
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 5: if you join ESP and Alison Max acting program.

1363
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 4: I mean, it depends on my age, but early twenties,

1364
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 4: sign me the fuck up. What the bleep do we know?

1365
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 4: Mark Vincente, Yes, I'll follow him wherever. Absolutely, I don't know.

1366
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 5: It's a tough one. I mean I think that. I mean,

1367
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 5: obviously we've discussed it enough at this point. The reason

1368
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 5: she didn't get deeper into it was because of how

1369
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 5: expensive it was.

1370
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 4: That's hilarious, son, I that was such a reframe for

1371
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 4: why I haven't been rich earlier in my life. I

1372
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 4: would have spent it in the most psychotic ways.

1373
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:09,679
Speaker 1: Ever.

1374
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,919
Speaker 4: I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful.

1375
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it is interesting that this there's like

1376
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 5: it's a cult of privilege, because you cannot get that.

1377
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess scientology is similar. You can't get

1378
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,799
Speaker 5: that deep into it unless you're like really spending money

1379
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:26,839
Speaker 5: or I guess, like devoting all of your time.

1380
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 4: I gueah, unless you're willing to be a servant on

1381
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 4: a boat.

1382
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 1: Right or on land or on land or in the air,

1383
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 1: you know wherever.

1384
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 5: One big takeaway is that having been in one cult

1385
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:43,759
Speaker 5: does not prevent you from joining another.

1386
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 1: We can all hear.

1387
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 5: Naomi's pretty level headed, Like it just was such a

1388
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 5: different context and a different message and a different goal.

1389
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 5: So you got to keep that guard up, man, keep

1390
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 5: that guard up. But you know, also open your heart sometimes.

1391
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 4: Okay, you guys have a wonderful week. Please message us,

1392
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 4: rate us five stars and uh you know the deal.

1393
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 4: Remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flag,

1394
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 4: and never ever chucky my.

1395
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:36,240
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1396
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1397
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1398
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:50,320
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1399
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1400
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