WEBVTT - Behind the Crown

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<v Speaker 1>This is quite a wall here.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, these are some great photos.

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<v Speaker 3>That's Jimmy Carter enough me.

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<v Speaker 4>Uh huh, yes, me and Lorena Lynn. How did this

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<v Speaker 4>come about?

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<v Speaker 3>She was given a concert in Burninghalla. Uh huh, carry

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<v Speaker 3>me backstage, leader.

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<v Speaker 1>Look at this suit that you have on.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe you've never heard of Bill Baxley, but here in

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<v Speaker 2>Alabama he's a big deal.

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<v Speaker 4>That Johnny Cash. Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Baxley is eighty two, slightly balding, with silver hair and eyebrows.

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<v Speaker 2>In the pictures he's showing me on the wall of

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<v Speaker 2>his office, I see him looking younger, his hair is dark,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's standing with famous musicians and politicians.

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<v Speaker 3>That's my daddy swearing me in for my first term.

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<v Speaker 5>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Baxley was elected as Alabama's attorney General when he was

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<v Speaker 2>just twenty eight years old. He later served as lieutenant governor,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's still practicing law today. During his career, Baxley

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<v Speaker 2>prosecuted hundreds of cases and sent three people to Alabama's

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<v Speaker 2>death row.

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<v Speaker 3>There are some crimes that are so wrong and so

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<v Speaker 3>horrible that they only deserve one punishment.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a lifelong defender of the death penalty, a true believer,

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<v Speaker 2>Like when the US Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty

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<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen seventies, Baxley worked hard to bring executions

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<v Speaker 2>back to Alabama. He's that kind of true believer, so

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<v Speaker 2>it's not surprising that Baxley was skeptical when his son,

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<v Speaker 2>who's also an attorney, asked his dad to look over

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<v Speaker 2>a case because he believed an innocent man was on

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<v Speaker 2>death row.

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<v Speaker 3>Over the course of my long career, I've had dozens

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<v Speaker 3>and dozens of instances where these I'll call them do gooders,

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<v Speaker 3>but they're good people. They take up there's causes of

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<v Speaker 3>people that have been sentenced to death, and they get

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<v Speaker 3>interested in trying to help them, and they all think

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<v Speaker 3>they're always innocent.

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<v Speaker 2>Baxley didn't even glance at the case file until weeks later.

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<v Speaker 2>On an icy winter morning, it was too slippery to

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<v Speaker 2>walk down the driveway and grab the newspaper, so he

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<v Speaker 2>picked up the file that his son sent him and

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<v Speaker 2>began reading about a black man named to Forrest Johnson,

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<v Speaker 2>who was sentenced to death for killing a Shaff's deputy.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, mid morning, I couldn't believe what I was reading.

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<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't have believed that something like this could have happened.

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<v Speaker 2>What was so unbelievable about it?

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<v Speaker 3>Everything? Everything. I don't know how the guy got indicted,

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<v Speaker 3>how they got I didn't see how the jury convicted him.

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<v Speaker 3>I would have never believed that that could have happened

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<v Speaker 3>in Alabama. Quest question in my mind. This guy was

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<v Speaker 3>not guilty of this crime, and I couldn't comprehend how

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<v Speaker 3>this could happen.

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<v Speaker 2>There's only one other case where Basley thought the defendants

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<v Speaker 2>were innocent, and that case is almost one hundred years old.

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<v Speaker 2>So what is it about this case to Forrest's case

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<v Speaker 2>that convinced Backsley that Alabama is trying to execute an

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<v Speaker 2>innocent man.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a unique absurdity that I've never seen before. It's

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<v Speaker 3>too late to give him back all those years he's

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<v Speaker 3>been on death road, but it's not too late to

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<v Speaker 3>correct it today and get him out for the future.

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<v Speaker 3>It's wrong, it's gone this long, but it's still not

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<v Speaker 3>too late to correct.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Beth Shelburne. Like Bill Baxley, I was

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<v Speaker 2>born in raised in Alabama. I grew up about a

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<v Speaker 2>mile away from where the crime at the center of

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<v Speaker 2>this story took place. I'm a journalist and writer and

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<v Speaker 2>for the last three years, I've been investigating the case

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<v Speaker 2>that rocked Bill Baxley's world. The story begins on a

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<v Speaker 2>hot July night in nineteen ninety five. It unfolds in

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<v Speaker 2>two places at once, the Crown Sterling Sweet's Hotel and

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<v Speaker 2>a nightclub that's almost four miles away called Tea's Place.

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<v Speaker 2>By the end of the night, one man will be

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<v Speaker 2>shot dead and two others will encounter someone who will

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<v Speaker 2>put them at the center of the murder investigation to

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<v Speaker 2>Forrest Johnson is still on death row and he's running

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<v Speaker 2>out of time.

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<v Speaker 6>M hm, do you hear my maness?

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<v Speaker 7>Laughter?

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<v Speaker 6>Had my feet? Sorrows dep re list in this bad tears.

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<v Speaker 6>I want to see revelation. I want to know you.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm reason Oh, it's precious.

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<v Speaker 1>To I'm Beth Shelburne.

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<v Speaker 2>This is ear witness, Chapter one Behind the Crown.

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<v Speaker 8>Yes, ma'am, this is very calling from Crowns Drilling Sweet

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<v Speaker 8>Hotel in Birmingham, Alabama. I'm calling because I've had several

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<v Speaker 8>guests report what appears on the windows. There have been

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<v Speaker 8>two gunshots and people running in the parking lot.

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<v Speaker 2>It's twelve fifty five am on July nineteenth, nineteen ninety five.

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<v Speaker 8>It's twenty three plain, that is correct. I have security

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<v Speaker 8>on the premisist, which is typically County Police, but I'm

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<v Speaker 8>calling you because I want to make sure that the

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<v Speaker 8>Birmingham Police arrive. Please, all right, look at the one out.

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<v Speaker 8>Thank you very much, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>The Crown Sterling Suites Hotel was a nine story building

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<v Speaker 2>in Birmingham. Today the hotel is an embassy suites. Inside

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<v Speaker 2>the main entrance of the hotel, there's a pale tiled

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<v Speaker 2>walkway that leads through the lobby.

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<v Speaker 1>The front desk.

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<v Speaker 2>Is to the left, but keep walking past it and

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<v Speaker 2>you enter a huge atrium, an open space surrounded by

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<v Speaker 2>windows with an indoor garden of leafy green plants and trees.

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<v Speaker 2>The tiled walkway leads to a coy pond with a

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<v Speaker 2>fountain at the center. It's lush and humid inside, but

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<v Speaker 2>despite all the windows, the field is dim and moody.

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<v Speaker 2>Keep walking past the cooy pond and there's a short

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<v Speaker 2>hallway that leads to the hotel's back parking lot. It

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<v Speaker 2>was here outside the double doors of the Crown Sterling

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<v Speaker 2>Suite's Hotel where a deputy sheriff was killed. No one

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<v Speaker 2>saw the murder, but a few people heard gunshots.

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<v Speaker 9>I remember hearing popping noises from the distance.

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<v Speaker 2>Barry Rushikov was working at the front desk when he

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<v Speaker 2>made that nine to one to one call.

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<v Speaker 9>When I heard it, I believe that's when I tried

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<v Speaker 9>to call Officer Hardy on the radio with no response.

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<v Speaker 2>Officer William Hardy, who went by Bill, had been a

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<v Speaker 2>deputy with the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office for twenty three years.

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<v Speaker 2>He was also a security guard at the hotel, where

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<v Speaker 2>he worked the night shift to make extra money. Hardy

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<v Speaker 2>was five foot ten, had a thin mustache, and wore

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<v Speaker 2>his hair in a Jerry curl. He was known to

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<v Speaker 2>be easy going and friendly. When Deputy Hardy wasn't making

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<v Speaker 2>hotel security rounds, Barry usually saw him wearing his brown

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<v Speaker 2>and tan deputy uniform, sitting at one of the tables

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<v Speaker 2>in the hotel's atrium, smoking more brand menthol cigarettes and

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<v Speaker 2>drinking coffee.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, when I.

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<v Speaker 9>Worked there, and when I was working nights, it was me,

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<v Speaker 9>you know, Officer Hardy or whatever officer on duty, and

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<v Speaker 9>or we would sometime have a houseman who is cleaning

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<v Speaker 9>floors or something.

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<v Speaker 4>But very minimal group, and I never felt unsafe.

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<v Speaker 2>Barry wasn't the only person to hear the popping noises.

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<v Speaker 2>A few guests at the hotel also heard gunshots, including

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<v Speaker 2>Marshal Kelly Cummings, a guest in a fourth floor room

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<v Speaker 2>directly above the hotel's back exit.

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<v Speaker 10>I can remember like it was yesterday, ma as far

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<v Speaker 10>as the details.

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<v Speaker 2>As I worked on this project, I started referring to

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<v Speaker 2>Cummings as the Keebler cookie guy, because in nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 2>five he worked for Keebler as a truck driver.

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<v Speaker 10>When I was with Keebler driving one of the step

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<v Speaker 10>vans delivering cookies and crackers and stuff, and.

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<v Speaker 2>We had a Cummings was staying at the Crown Sterling

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<v Speaker 2>for a company training. After the workday was over, he

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<v Speaker 2>drank a few beers at the hotel bar with some coworkers,

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<v Speaker 2>and then he and the other Keepler employee he was

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<v Speaker 2>rooming with turned in between ten and eleven PM. But

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<v Speaker 2>Cummings was not asleep for long.

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<v Speaker 10>But he just I woke up and it was I

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<v Speaker 10>kept hearing somebody talk kind of talk.

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<v Speaker 2>So you heard some voices and it sounded like they

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<v Speaker 2>were arguing or.

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<v Speaker 10>Not really bad. But they were.

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<v Speaker 11>Having a conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah it was male voices.

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<v Speaker 10>Yeah, well they quit arguing and then I didn't hear anything.

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<v Speaker 10>So I laid back down and it probably wasn't seconds,

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<v Speaker 10>thirty seconds, forty five.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm out.

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<v Speaker 10>I didn't count boom, small caliber gun. He won a

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<v Speaker 10>big caliber and all of a sudden, the few sects

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<v Speaker 10>are a boom. About the second time I say it, Ben,

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<v Speaker 10>that was.

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<v Speaker 2>A gun, he remembers, turning to the coworker he was

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<v Speaker 2>sharing a room with.

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<v Speaker 10>I said, you hear that? He says, yeah. So I

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<v Speaker 10>stood up and opened the blind to get my eyes

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<v Speaker 10>fixed because it was dark. Then it had the lights

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<v Speaker 10>in the.

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<v Speaker 2>Last one directly beneath his window, Cummings sees a four

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<v Speaker 2>door car. It's dark copper or light brown with the

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<v Speaker 2>vinyl top, parked facing the hotel's back double doors. He

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<v Speaker 2>sees a tall person get into the driver's side of

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<v Speaker 2>the car, close the door, and slowly pull away with

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<v Speaker 2>the headlights off.

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<v Speaker 10>And so I called down to the front desk. I said, hey,

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<v Speaker 10>there's been shots fired.

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<v Speaker 8>I heard.

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<v Speaker 10>Did you hear that?

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<v Speaker 9>I believe I got a phone call from someone in

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<v Speaker 9>the room saying they heard.

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<v Speaker 2>Gunshots, So Barry makes that initial nine to one one call,

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<v Speaker 2>hangs up and decides to investigate it.

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<v Speaker 9>Jumped over the counter to walk back, and I was

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<v Speaker 9>walked back.

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<v Speaker 4>I saw Offsta Hardy's radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Barry sees Deputy Hardy's radio on a table in the

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<v Speaker 2>hotel's atrium, and right next to it his cigarette still

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<v Speaker 2>burning in an ash tray. Meanwhile, back on the fourth floor,

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<v Speaker 2>Marshall Kelly Cummings hangs up the phone with Barry and

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<v Speaker 2>goes back to the window.

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<v Speaker 10>And I kept looking, and I kept looking. Finally my

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<v Speaker 10>eyes got where I could see, and I looked down.

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<v Speaker 10>I could see him laying on the ground. I went, oh, no,

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<v Speaker 10>this ain't good.

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<v Speaker 2>Cummings spots a body on the ground and realizes someone

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<v Speaker 2>has been badly hurt. It's right around this time Barry

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<v Speaker 2>makes the same tearable discovery.

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<v Speaker 9>There's a hallway that went to the door that went

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<v Speaker 9>back out to the back parking lot. As I turned

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<v Speaker 9>the corner to go down that hallway and I looked

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<v Speaker 9>out the door in the distance, I saw Offsta Hardy.

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<v Speaker 4>On the ground. That's when I ran back to the front.

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<v Speaker 9>Desk made an emergency phone call to the police.

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<v Speaker 12>Just man the Supirital crowds to phys.

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<v Speaker 8>Colia and I have a pit. What appears to be a.

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<v Speaker 12>Jumped the county police officer shot.

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<v Speaker 8>In the back of our building.

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<v Speaker 12>She ends not moving. People in a car drove away

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<v Speaker 12>and he's lying on the on the pavement. I'm a

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<v Speaker 12>little fraid to go up. Yes, he is a Birmingham

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<v Speaker 12>Police out Jefferson County.

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<v Speaker 8>He is a hired night time security for us.

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<v Speaker 12>Hi, do you know if you can sign anything?

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<v Speaker 8>Like if it's breeze? I K and how much blood?

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<v Speaker 12>I'm trying, man, my, my, my promise.

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<v Speaker 8>I don't know if the people are still out there.

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<v Speaker 12>Okay, we we should be that Charlotte you I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 12>go back.

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<v Speaker 8>Okay, thank you.

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<v Speaker 12>Got Jess Ketty deputy has been shot on the back

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<v Speaker 12>entrance of the hotel Crown Show the suite and is.

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<v Speaker 5>One of us and we are they have got one

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<v Speaker 5>down who has been shot.

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<v Speaker 12>And they said it looks gad, it looks too bad.

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<v Speaker 12>Three three two Do we have any information? Do we

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<v Speaker 12>have anything on a suspect to know anything?

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<v Speaker 2>After he makes the second nine to one one call,

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<v Speaker 2>Barry walks down the hallway to the back parking lot.

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<v Speaker 9>And then I went back out the office. Already he

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<v Speaker 9>was not a good condition. He did have a wound

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<v Speaker 9>to his face. He was making a gurgling, gasping noise.

0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.680
<v Speaker 9>You know, he was not conscious. I believe I took

0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.080
<v Speaker 9>my jacket off, my uniform jacket off, to try to

0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.080
<v Speaker 9>cover him, or put under his head, or try to

0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 9>comfort him. But fortunately officers arrived so quickly, and I

0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 9>was removed from that area immediately.

0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 2>More than a dozen officers from four different agencies arrive

0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:37.000
<v Speaker 2>at the hotel. One of them is Detective Tony Richardson,

0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.920
<v Speaker 2>who says he'd known Deputy Hardy since he first started

0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 2>working for the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office in nineteen seventy eight.

0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:51.720
<v Speaker 5>Being black and bo being black, naturally I noticed him.

0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:54.920
<v Speaker 5>I was told more than once to get a haircut.

0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:57.880
<v Speaker 5>That you know, to be a deputy shaff you got

0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 5>to have your haircut. So the reason I mentioned that

0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 5>is because from the first day that I ever saw him,

0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:06.760
<v Speaker 5>his hair was out.

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.840
<v Speaker 1>To hear big afro, big afro.

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.320
<v Speaker 11>And he would put on his hat.

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 5>He wore that hat religiously. Everybody else as the Sheriff's

0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.960
<v Speaker 5>office hated those hats. They didn't want to wear him,

0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:21.760
<v Speaker 5>you know, But he always wore his hat.

0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Deputy Hardy often wore his traditional broad brimmed tan smoky

0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 2>the bear style sheriff's hat. It was later entered as

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 2>evidence from the crime scene with a bullet hole through

0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.040
<v Speaker 2>the brim.

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:38.960
<v Speaker 5>And he would have it on his head and all

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.280
<v Speaker 5>that hair would be on the side would be out here,

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 5>and I'm like, who is this guy? How can he

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.480
<v Speaker 5>get away with that? And not only that, he is

0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.160
<v Speaker 5>in the sheriff's office. How can he get away with that?

0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.080
<v Speaker 5>So I was in treat by him, fascinated by him,

0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.760
<v Speaker 5>but I was scared of him. I was scared to

0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.080
<v Speaker 5>meet him because I thought, of my mind, this guy's

0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.879
<v Speaker 5>got to be crazy, you know who to do that

0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 5>and get away with it.

0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 13>He's got to be greaty.

0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:07.680
<v Speaker 11>I would scatter of him.

0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:12.320
<v Speaker 5>But anyway, when I first met him, I met him

0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.560
<v Speaker 5>and talked to him. He started to feel better about well.

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.240
<v Speaker 5>I started to feel better about him.

0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:19.040
<v Speaker 4>We were never.

0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.840
<v Speaker 5>Just busom buddies real close, but we were close and

0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:23.040
<v Speaker 5>we knew each other.

0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Tony Richardson and Bill Hardy had been colleagues at the

0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Jefferson County Sheriff's office for seventeen years. Richardson remembers the

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.160
<v Speaker 2>last time he saw Hardy alive.

0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.680
<v Speaker 5>The last day I saw Bill, my brother and I.

0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.960
<v Speaker 5>My brother would put a sheriff's office offso and we

0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.320
<v Speaker 5>were standing there smoking and Bill drove out the alley

0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.600
<v Speaker 5>and he was pulling up twenty second and he stopped

0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.640
<v Speaker 5>in the road and he started to talk to us,

0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:57.760
<v Speaker 5>and he said, hey, guys, hang out doing loan with

0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 5>some money. It's just you know, stuff like that. And

0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.639
<v Speaker 5>we laughed and talked for a minute. And that was

0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:04.280
<v Speaker 5>the last time I saw him. And the next time

0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.439
<v Speaker 5>I heard Bill's name was about two o'clock in the

0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.520
<v Speaker 5>morning when I got the call saying that he had

0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:15.159
<v Speaker 5>been shot. At that time, I was what was considered

0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:21.880
<v Speaker 5>a Crimes against Persons detective, which meant that I worked homicides.

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:27.480
<v Speaker 5>The lieutenant felt like because it involved a deputy sheriff,

0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.639
<v Speaker 5>and you know that we needed all the help that

0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.440
<v Speaker 5>we could get. So I got called out.

0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.240
<v Speaker 2>Did you go to the actual scene?

0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:36.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:38.800
<v Speaker 1>What did you encounter when you got there?

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:46.120
<v Speaker 5>Well, by the time I got there, Bill's body was gone.

0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.879
<v Speaker 2>Paramedics had already lifted Bill Hardy into an ambulance and

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.800
<v Speaker 2>rushed him to the emergency room of Birmingham's largest hospital.

0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.360
<v Speaker 2>He is gravely injured with two gunshot wounds to.

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 1>His head and jaw.

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.240
<v Speaker 2>A medical examiner notes a bullet wound to Hardy's finger

0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.520
<v Speaker 2>likely means he raised his hand in a defensive posture

0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.800
<v Speaker 2>when he was shot. Police go to his house to

0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.359
<v Speaker 2>tell his wife, Patricia Diane Hardy, and bring her to

0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:21.640
<v Speaker 2>the hospital. Jim Woodward, the chief deputy in Jefferson County,

0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.960
<v Speaker 2>also rushes over when he hears that Hardy was shot.

0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.120
<v Speaker 1>What do you remember about the incident?

0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:32.119
<v Speaker 14>I got the call that Hardy had been shot, and

0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.480
<v Speaker 14>they told me said looked very serious. So I got

0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:40.639
<v Speaker 14>in my car and went down to the hospital. I

0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.120
<v Speaker 14>stood there while they were operating on him, and then

0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.199
<v Speaker 14>I just heard one say that's it. It's over. We

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:48.040
<v Speaker 14>can't do anymore.

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:48.919
<v Speaker 4>It's over.

0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:51.600
<v Speaker 14>We can't save him. He's gone.

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.159
<v Speaker 2>What does that feel like when you are a career

0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:56.640
<v Speaker 2>law enforcement officer in.

0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.720
<v Speaker 14>Well, it's kind of devastating to you. You know, you

0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.320
<v Speaker 14>get to know these guys and I knew Hardy. Well,

0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.320
<v Speaker 14>that's a very devastating thing that happen to you.

0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:13.679
<v Speaker 2>Deputy Bill Hardy is pronounced dead seven hours after he

0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:18.000
<v Speaker 2>was shot. The cause of death is two gunshot wounds

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:24.640
<v Speaker 2>fired at close range. I wanted to know more about

0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Deputy Hardy, so I wrote to several family members inviting

0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:33.240
<v Speaker 2>them to talk. They never responded, and I can only

0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.760
<v Speaker 2>imagine his murder must be one of the hardest things

0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.919
<v Speaker 2>they've ever experienced. But I have learned a few things

0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:45.199
<v Speaker 2>about Deputy Hardy. He was married to Patricia Diane Hardy.

0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:50.280
<v Speaker 2>He had two children and four adult step children. Hardy

0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:54.439
<v Speaker 2>started working as a deputy in nineteen seventy two. His

0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:59.800
<v Speaker 2>duties included delivering subpoenas and directing traffic outside the courthouse.

0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:03.160
<v Speaker 5>You know.

0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:12.160
<v Speaker 3>It was rough. It was rough. It's rough right now.

0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:19.320
<v Speaker 5>It's a rough right This many well working homicide I

0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:25.359
<v Speaker 5>worked at bunch, but none of them affected me like

0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 5>the killing of a deputy Shaff. You know, you have

0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:33.640
<v Speaker 5>a bond with the guys you work with in the uniform.

0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:39.000
<v Speaker 5>Whether you know 'em or not, you have a bond.

0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:44.320
<v Speaker 5>So when I was a deputy Share working another deputy

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.600
<v Speaker 5>Share it's murdered, do you think that was emotional? Yes?

0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:52.680
<v Speaker 13>It was mm very and had it been my decision

0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.760
<v Speaker 13>the day we caught the people that did it. Let's

0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:58.160
<v Speaker 13>let's put 'em on death throat.

0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:08.239
<v Speaker 2>Lead Detective Tony Richardson and his team of investigators have

0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:12.160
<v Speaker 2>no eyewitnesses to the shooting, and there's no known motive.

0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:16.320
<v Speaker 2>A fellow officer has just been shot, and they have

0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:30.399
<v Speaker 2>almost no evidence to go on. At the exact time

0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:34.199
<v Speaker 2>that Deputy Bill Hardy was shot to Forrest Johnson and

0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:37.639
<v Speaker 2>his friend Ardregis Ford were four miles away from the

0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:41.639
<v Speaker 2>crime scene at a downtown Birmingham nightclub called Tea's Place,

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.520
<v Speaker 2>but they would soon become the focus of Tony Richardson's investigation.

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:07.879
<v Speaker 2>Just a few hours before Deputy Hardy is shot ar

0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:11.680
<v Speaker 2>dragas Ford gets into the passenger side of his nineteen

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 2>seventy one black Monte Carlo. It's an old car and

0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:19.960
<v Speaker 2>the driver's side door doesn't open, so he slides over

0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:23.560
<v Speaker 2>into the driver's seat, starts the ignition, and heads out

0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:26.520
<v Speaker 2>to pick up his friend to Forrest Johnson to go

0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:31.560
<v Speaker 2>to a club called Teas Place. I wasn't able to

0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:36.200
<v Speaker 2>interview to Forest or Ardregas for this podcast. The Alabama

0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Department of Corrections doesn't allow people on death road to

0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:43.320
<v Speaker 2>do interviews with reporters like me. So I was unable

0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:47.639
<v Speaker 2>to talk to Forrest directly. And ar Dragas died in

0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:50.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty one, I didn't get a chance to interview

0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:55.639
<v Speaker 2>him before then. I was able to speak to Ardregas's mother,

0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Joyce Ford.

0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:02.199
<v Speaker 15>That particular night said they was going to teas and

0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:05.440
<v Speaker 15>see he would go to Tease every Tuesday and he

0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:09.480
<v Speaker 15>have his particular same parking space and everything because he

0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:11.280
<v Speaker 15>would give them good tips.

0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Ardregas was willing to pay for a good parking space

0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:19.679
<v Speaker 2>because he was in a wheelchair. When Ardregas was a teenager,

0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.520
<v Speaker 2>a group of men began shooting outside an apartment building

0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:27.399
<v Speaker 2>he was visiting. He was shot trying to shield his

0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:29.800
<v Speaker 2>cousin and her baby from gunfire.

0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:33.840
<v Speaker 15>My son when he got shot when he was fifteen,

0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:36.840
<v Speaker 15>I had just gotten off from work. I was tied

0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:39.560
<v Speaker 15>in the phone, rang Rang Rang. I didn't answer the phone,

0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:44.320
<v Speaker 15>you know, and I finally answered it and they stated

0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:48.679
<v Speaker 15>that he had gotten shot. I need to rush to

0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:53.280
<v Speaker 15>the murgency room. That was like a dream, you know.

0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:56.960
<v Speaker 15>You hear about things happening to other people, but when

0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:01.320
<v Speaker 15>it hit home, you know, and then he got spinal

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:05.800
<v Speaker 15>cord injury. He got shot in the back. Yeah, and

0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:10.800
<v Speaker 15>he was paralyzed realize from chest down T four they

0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:14.400
<v Speaker 15>called it. So that was like a nightmare.

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:20.400
<v Speaker 2>In his early twenties, ar Dragus outfitted his Monte Carlo

0:25:20.640 --> 0:25:23.800
<v Speaker 2>with the makeshift system so he could throw his wheelchair

0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.639
<v Speaker 2>in the back and drive the car using just his

0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:27.920
<v Speaker 2>upper body.

0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:34.000
<v Speaker 15>He would cut a broom you know, the broomsticks. He

0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:36.919
<v Speaker 15>would put have one to the brakes, one to the salator,

0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 15>and he would tape it to the car. He would

0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:40.879
<v Speaker 15>tape it to it.

0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:43.680
<v Speaker 6>So he like retro fitted his Yeah.

0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:44.640
<v Speaker 5>He did. Did.

0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:49.480
<v Speaker 15>He didn't buy the regular equipment that he should have used.

0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:53.399
<v Speaker 2>Ar Dragas and to Forest actually came up with this

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:57.560
<v Speaker 2>idea together. Here's to Forrest's cousin, Antonio.

0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:00.400
<v Speaker 16>Green Draga's was. I guess that was a prime thing.

0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:04.159
<v Speaker 16>He didn't want that handicap accessible pedals and stuff in

0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:06.520
<v Speaker 16>his car. But as far as coming up with this great,

0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:11.000
<v Speaker 16>this genius idea where they're gonna well some metal rods

0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 16>to the break and accelerator pedal so he could use

0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:18.040
<v Speaker 16>his hands and dry, well, he get to thinking about

0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:20.920
<v Speaker 16>this thing and metal rods well, did from the brake

0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:24.080
<v Speaker 16>pedal or the accelerator. That's not too good of an

0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:26.560
<v Speaker 16>idea in case you get in the accident. He hate

0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:29.560
<v Speaker 16>to see Draga's impaled through the seat right here. So

0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:33.640
<v Speaker 16>he goes and buys two brooms out of the little

0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:39.720
<v Speaker 16>dollar store wherever, And no measurements, no, just nothing precise

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:42.359
<v Speaker 16>about it. He just gets the broom and breaks them

0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:47.000
<v Speaker 16>and duct tape the sticks, one to the accelerated pedal

0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 16>and one to the brake pedal so Dragus could drive

0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 16>his car.

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:55.359
<v Speaker 6>Could he get around? Well, I mean did he drive real?

0:26:55.480 --> 0:27:02.560
<v Speaker 15>Well?

0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:05.200
<v Speaker 2>It's been a while since to Forest and Ardregas have

0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:09.240
<v Speaker 2>hung out because to Forest had recently gotten out of prison.

0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:13.439
<v Speaker 2>He was arrested for driving with a suspended license, and

0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 2>as officers padded him down at the city jail, he

0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:21.800
<v Speaker 2>tossed something into a nearby trash can. Officers reached into

0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:25.960
<v Speaker 2>the can and found a plastic bag of cocaine. To

0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Forest ended up pleading guilty to drug possession. To Forest

0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:33.560
<v Speaker 2>served about a year in prison, and by the night

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.720
<v Speaker 2>of Hardy's murder, he'd been out about three months. To

0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:41.159
<v Speaker 2>Forest puts on jean shorts and a Tommy Hill figure

0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:44.640
<v Speaker 2>blue and white shirt, then gets into the passenger side

0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 2>of Ardregas's car and they head downtown. They pull up

0:27:49.640 --> 0:27:53.159
<v Speaker 2>and park outside Tea's Place, but it's too early to

0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:55.760
<v Speaker 2>go inside, so they hang out in the parking lot

0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:58.879
<v Speaker 2>flirting with some girls who work at the car dealership

0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:02.200
<v Speaker 2>across the street. To Forrest buys a hot dog from

0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:08.240
<v Speaker 2>a cart on the sidewalk. Regulars start trickling into the club, drinking,

0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:14.360
<v Speaker 2>dancing and catching up inside. There's something music low lighting.

0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:19.120
<v Speaker 2>It's Tasty Tuesday at Teas Place, which means women get

0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:19.600
<v Speaker 2>in free.

0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:26.959
<v Speaker 7>I used to go to Teas Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.

0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Barbetta Hunt was one of the regulars who was there

0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:30.480
<v Speaker 2>that night.

0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:34.280
<v Speaker 1>What was your nickname back then?

0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 11>Mama Cat.

0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:39.120
<v Speaker 2>That's like in the world of nicknames, that's the best n.

0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:44.280
<v Speaker 7>My mother, it's the purpose and my father, Fred Perkins.

0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:46.200
<v Speaker 7>They gave me that name when I was born. But

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:48.120
<v Speaker 7>that's Monday. My name is Mama Cat.

0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:51.800
<v Speaker 2>When she was in her early twenties, Mama Cat spent

0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:53.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot of nights hanging out at Teas Place.

0:28:55.000 --> 0:28:57.440
<v Speaker 7>When you walk into the door, that's my spot right there.

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:00.960
<v Speaker 7>It's on the right hand side. Every time I got

0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:04.360
<v Speaker 7>that was my spot. I don't move from this spot.

0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:06.760
<v Speaker 7>I don't walk to the bag. I don't walk there.

0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:10.200
<v Speaker 7>I say right there. Me and my friend Velinici Aqui Sanders,

0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 7>we were together.

0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:14.600
<v Speaker 17>We got there before eleven because the club was always

0:29:14.640 --> 0:29:18.160
<v Speaker 17>free on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday before eleven for women.

0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:22.200
<v Speaker 2>This is Belanique Sanders nicknamed Queisi.

0:29:23.320 --> 0:29:26.480
<v Speaker 17>Anything after eleven it was five dollars and me and

0:29:26.520 --> 0:29:29.480
<v Speaker 17>Barbetta was very cheap, so we tried to make sure

0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:31.840
<v Speaker 17>we got there in free because the little money we

0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:34.200
<v Speaker 17>had said we wanted to buy something to eat, and

0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:36.240
<v Speaker 17>I love to get a chicken plate from there, a

0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:37.920
<v Speaker 17>chicken breast with some French fries.

0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, did you know Trafforst Johnson?

0:29:42.760 --> 0:29:42.960
<v Speaker 11>Yes?

0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:43.440
<v Speaker 15>I did.

0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:47.240
<v Speaker 17>I knew him from hanging out in the neighborhood in

0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:49.640
<v Speaker 17>Nsley and I, oh my god, I had a crush

0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 17>on him.

0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:52.920
<v Speaker 11>He was the finest. Yeah.

0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:55.320
<v Speaker 2>What do you remember about what he looked like?

0:29:56.520 --> 0:30:02.480
<v Speaker 17>He was short, hmm, a nice body, Oh my god. Anyway,

0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:07.920
<v Speaker 17>he was a ladies man. I will say that, sweet,

0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:12.280
<v Speaker 17>always kind. He was just a nice gentleman like his

0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:14.160
<v Speaker 17>mama had raised him really well.

0:30:14.920 --> 0:30:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Did you guys ever go out or did he know

0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:19.240
<v Speaker 2>that you had a crush on him?

0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:20.960
<v Speaker 17>He knew I had a crush on him, but we

0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:24.720
<v Speaker 17>never went out. No, we would just see each other.

0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:26.760
<v Speaker 17>I smiled, be like, Oh that he is, I'm gonna

0:30:26.800 --> 0:30:27.200
<v Speaker 17>get him.

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:30.040
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, that's it.

0:30:31.960 --> 0:30:35.800
<v Speaker 2>To Forest mostly grew up in Birmingham's Pratt City neighborhood,

0:30:36.000 --> 0:30:37.960
<v Speaker 2>or Pratt for short.

0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:42.200
<v Speaker 16>We grew up together, I mean closer than just cousins.

0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:44.720
<v Speaker 16>We were like brothers because we were all pretty much

0:30:44.840 --> 0:30:47.480
<v Speaker 16>raised right in the same little local community.

0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:51.600
<v Speaker 2>While to Forest was growing up, most of his extended

0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:55.720
<v Speaker 2>family also lived in or near Pratt, including his cousin

0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Antonio Green.

0:30:57.880 --> 0:31:01.800
<v Speaker 16>And Uh, since we were todd I mean babies, we

0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:04.320
<v Speaker 16>were kind of together, took out in this thing, and

0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:06.720
<v Speaker 16>he was a couple of years younger than I am,

0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:09.360
<v Speaker 16>so he always kind of held on to my shirt

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:13.800
<v Speaker 16>tail and you know, so I've been closely connected with

0:31:13.880 --> 0:31:15.240
<v Speaker 16>him for our entire life.

0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:15.840
<v Speaker 4>Pretty much.

0:31:16.880 --> 0:31:20.440
<v Speaker 2>To Forest's mom, Donna, was seventeen when she had him,

0:31:20.680 --> 0:31:23.200
<v Speaker 2>and when to Forest was young, she was more like

0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:26.680
<v Speaker 2>a sister to him than a mother. Donna leaned on

0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:29.960
<v Speaker 2>her parents and siblings to help take care of to Forest,

0:31:30.520 --> 0:31:33.640
<v Speaker 2>and as to Forrest got older, she leaned on him

0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:35.520
<v Speaker 2>to help take care of his little brother.

0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:40.160
<v Speaker 16>He started at a very young age, much too young

0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:44.240
<v Speaker 16>to really be faced with the type of responsibility that

0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.560
<v Speaker 16>he took on. He was at an age where he

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:50.400
<v Speaker 16>was still a kid. I'm talking about eleven twelve, you know,

0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:53.640
<v Speaker 16>just in their teen years, and had to take on

0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:56.520
<v Speaker 16>the responsibility of taking care of his little brother. You know,

0:31:56.560 --> 0:31:59.000
<v Speaker 16>he had a little brother that he got ready for

0:31:59.040 --> 0:32:03.480
<v Speaker 16>school and his clothes he did. You know, He's always

0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 16>been that caring little dude, you know, and he did that.

0:32:07.000 --> 0:32:10.120
<v Speaker 16>So he had to take on some things during that time.

0:32:10.440 --> 0:32:12.360
<v Speaker 16>You know, his mom and dad was dead, but his

0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:15.720
<v Speaker 16>dad was a very very heavy drinker.

0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:20.200
<v Speaker 2>To Forest's father, Ronald, was an alcoholic and would get

0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:24.400
<v Speaker 2>violent when he drank, which was every day. This made

0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:28.560
<v Speaker 2>home life extremely volatile for to Forrest, his younger brother,

0:32:28.720 --> 0:32:34.080
<v Speaker 2>little ron and especially his mother, Donna. She eventually left

0:32:34.160 --> 0:32:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Ronald when to Forest was a teenager and moved in

0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:40.160
<v Speaker 2>with another man who had an apartment in the Tuxedo

0:32:40.280 --> 0:32:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Projects in Birmingham's Insley community, also known as the Brickyard.

0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:46.760
<v Speaker 4>Oh.

0:32:46.840 --> 0:32:49.040
<v Speaker 11>It was called the Brickyard.

0:32:49.520 --> 0:32:53.400
<v Speaker 2>Velinique aka Queasi, the one who had a crush on

0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:55.560
<v Speaker 2>to Forest, also grew up there.

0:32:56.560 --> 0:32:59.480
<v Speaker 11>It was rough. I did you know My mom had

0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:00.160
<v Speaker 11>three girls.

0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:02.720
<v Speaker 17>My had three and we lived in a five bedroom

0:33:02.800 --> 0:33:07.240
<v Speaker 17>project with our grandparents, So it was just a bunch

0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:09.200
<v Speaker 17>of girls in the house. But I mean, you know,

0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:12.680
<v Speaker 17>I had just seen people get killed right in front

0:33:12.680 --> 0:33:15.960
<v Speaker 17>of me. My cousin got shot in the stummy. You know,

0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:17.320
<v Speaker 17>a lot of.

0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:19.680
<v Speaker 11>It was rough.

0:33:20.240 --> 0:33:22.920
<v Speaker 17>You had family's daddy couldn't afford to eat. You know,

0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:27.320
<v Speaker 17>kids come to school, you know, wearing the same clothes

0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:28.000
<v Speaker 17>over and over.

0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:31.320
<v Speaker 11>It was rough. It was rough growing up in the projects.

0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:35.120
<v Speaker 2>To Forest and his little brother moved there when to

0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Forest was sixteen. When he was seventeen, to Forrest was

0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 2>shot and a drive by shooting and spent three months

0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:46.080
<v Speaker 2>in the hospital. To Forest's mom told me the bullet

0:33:46.200 --> 0:33:52.560
<v Speaker 2>is still lodged in his chest. During this period, seven

0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:57.000
<v Speaker 2>of to Forest's friends would be shot and killed. No

0:33:57.040 --> 0:34:01.000
<v Speaker 2>one was ever prosecuted for any of these crimes, and

0:34:01.080 --> 0:34:02.520
<v Speaker 2>it was around this time that.

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:04.160
<v Speaker 1>To Forest dropped out of school.

0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:12.480
<v Speaker 2>Several family members tell me that at twenty two, to

0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Forest was somewhat adrift. He spent his time working on

0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:20.799
<v Speaker 2>old cars and playing video games. He was having a

0:34:20.840 --> 0:34:26.000
<v Speaker 2>good time dating different women. He had five children who

0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:30.480
<v Speaker 2>he loved, but he was also unsettled. He hadn't yet

0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:35.080
<v Speaker 2>figured out his purpose, and he didn't know he was

0:34:35.200 --> 0:35:05.879
<v Speaker 2>running out of time. As to Forrest and Ardregas wait

0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:09.880
<v Speaker 2>outside of Teas, Ardregas's beeper goes off a few times.

0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:12.960
<v Speaker 2>The beeps are from a girl he met a few

0:35:13.040 --> 0:35:16.720
<v Speaker 2>nights before, but he ignores her, hoping to meet someone

0:35:16.760 --> 0:35:21.560
<v Speaker 2>else inside. Tees to Forrest walks toward the club's entrance

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:26.240
<v Speaker 2>behind Ardregas and his wheelchair. They're focused on meeting girls

0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:30.160
<v Speaker 2>and having a good time. They don't know that this

0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:33.439
<v Speaker 2>night will change their lives, and the people they run

0:35:33.480 --> 0:35:37.040
<v Speaker 2>into don't know they're about to become alibi witnesses.

0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:43.280
<v Speaker 18>There was a love before eleven, and we were standing

0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:46.400
<v Speaker 18>outside and they came up as far as its pushing

0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:46.960
<v Speaker 18>to Draga's.

0:35:47.960 --> 0:35:51.360
<v Speaker 2>One of the first people they run into is Kenyara Pickett,

0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:53.120
<v Speaker 2>who was standing near the entrance.

0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:57.120
<v Speaker 18>I remember exactly where I was standing, right in front

0:35:57.120 --> 0:35:59.560
<v Speaker 18>of the club when he walked up, because I thought

0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:02.760
<v Speaker 18>I was shouting night out, you know, back in the days.

0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:05.319
<v Speaker 11>It was TSC wearing big clothes back then, and.

0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:08.800
<v Speaker 18>I had on some black, some black big jeans but shorts,

0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:11.560
<v Speaker 18>and I had on some black and white rebox and

0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:13.440
<v Speaker 18>then I think I had on the button down shut

0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 18>my sister she had just got out of the hospital.

0:36:16.200 --> 0:36:18.359
<v Speaker 18>She had a blood clot and I when she got

0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:20.120
<v Speaker 18>out to the hospital, we just went down and you know,

0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:20.920
<v Speaker 18>to celebrate that.

0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:25.000
<v Speaker 2>She came home to Forrest and Ardregas make their way

0:36:25.040 --> 0:36:29.160
<v Speaker 2>past Kenara and go into Tea's. Mama Cat and Belanik

0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:32.560
<v Speaker 2>are already inside, perched at their table right by the

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:33.120
<v Speaker 2>front door.

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:37.640
<v Speaker 7>Tavarras Johnson, I remember he was pushing a Dreka's four

0:36:37.680 --> 0:36:38.320
<v Speaker 7>in the wheelchair.

0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:39.120
<v Speaker 11>They came together.

0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:43.480
<v Speaker 17>I had saw Toofar was pushing a Draca's in the

0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:46.960
<v Speaker 17>club because we always standing at the front by the

0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:49.560
<v Speaker 17>door so we can be nosy and see everything.

0:36:49.960 --> 0:36:52.359
<v Speaker 2>You wanted to see who was coming in and who

0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:53.479
<v Speaker 2>was leaving with who?

0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:57.560
<v Speaker 11>Yes, yes, ma'am a boy.

0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:01.360
<v Speaker 19>Eleven o'clock I saw Tafarest come and pushing Anddraga's in

0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:03.279
<v Speaker 19>and I was excited to see him because I hadn't

0:37:03.320 --> 0:37:04.960
<v Speaker 19>seen him in a year, because I had just got

0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:06.480
<v Speaker 19>out the military.

0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:09.799
<v Speaker 2>Stanley Chandler is also at Tease that night to catch

0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:12.680
<v Speaker 2>up with friends. He and to Forrest knew each other

0:37:12.760 --> 0:37:14.080
<v Speaker 2>as kids and Pratt.

0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:17.560
<v Speaker 19>So we stood there and we start we talked, you

0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:21.040
<v Speaker 19>know about old times, you know, and I mean we joked,

0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:21.680
<v Speaker 19>laying and.

0:37:21.719 --> 0:37:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Laugh to Forrest and Ardregas settle in at a table

0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:30.240
<v Speaker 2>chatting with people who stopped by watching the dance floor.

0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:35.560
<v Speaker 20>I was sitting on the balcony because when you go around,

0:37:35.600 --> 0:37:38.600
<v Speaker 20>it's like a little balcony part that you could sit at.

0:37:38.880 --> 0:37:41.640
<v Speaker 20>And so I seen Draca's in too far ast when

0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:43.319
<v Speaker 20>they came in the door, because he was pushing them

0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:44.000
<v Speaker 20>in a wheelchair.

0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:48.359
<v Speaker 2>This is Dedra Carter, who was celebrating getting released from

0:37:48.400 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 2>the hospital with her sister Kenyara. Dedra was also at

0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Tease that night.

0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:58.759
<v Speaker 20>And him and my cousin Mona and my sister, all

0:37:58.760 --> 0:38:01.520
<v Speaker 20>of us was just there talking. And you know, I

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.920
<v Speaker 20>think Toofars liked at Mona, so you know, he was

0:38:04.960 --> 0:38:06.560
<v Speaker 20>trying to hook up with him, but she wouldn't.

0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:08.879
<v Speaker 11>No, she wouldn't never hook up with him.

0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:12.200
<v Speaker 20>We used to laugh, talk joking, like even we at

0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:14.759
<v Speaker 20>the club music playing, We're still cracking up, you know,

0:38:15.280 --> 0:38:16.760
<v Speaker 20>you know, just talking and stuff.

0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:21.239
<v Speaker 2>To Forrest SIPs along island iced tea and orders our

0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Dragas a brandy and coke. At one point, to Forrest

0:38:24.840 --> 0:38:27.720
<v Speaker 2>goes back to the bar because Dragas says his drink

0:38:27.840 --> 0:38:30.800
<v Speaker 2>is too weak, and the bartender makes him a new one.

0:38:31.560 --> 0:38:34.359
<v Speaker 2>They linger at the club into the early hours of

0:38:34.400 --> 0:38:35.240
<v Speaker 2>Wednesday morning.

0:38:36.280 --> 0:38:38.439
<v Speaker 20>When I said we would probably ship the club now

0:38:39.760 --> 0:38:42.359
<v Speaker 20>we was there, I know, to probably like they used

0:38:42.360 --> 0:38:46.839
<v Speaker 20>to close about maybe one two o'clock, so we would

0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:48.840
<v Speaker 20>leave right right before that, so I know it was

0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:50.040
<v Speaker 20>like maybe one.

0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:53.040
<v Speaker 19>I ain't up leaving a club roughly about I'm gonna

0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:55.680
<v Speaker 19>say around about right at one. And like I said,

0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:58.279
<v Speaker 19>he was standing across the club, you know, you could

0:38:58.280 --> 0:39:02.120
<v Speaker 19>see him because it wasn't a big, big club, you know,

0:39:03.360 --> 0:39:05.399
<v Speaker 19>And I just started to do signs up and I.

0:39:05.400 --> 0:39:07.480
<v Speaker 15>Left and he was still there.

0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:09.000
<v Speaker 19>Yeah, you stayed there when I left.

0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:17.239
<v Speaker 2>There are at least ten people who say they saw

0:39:17.320 --> 0:39:21.400
<v Speaker 2>to Forrest and Ardregas at Tea's place between eleven PM

0:39:21.560 --> 0:39:25.960
<v Speaker 2>and one thirty am. Deputy Bill Hardy was shot right

0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:30.279
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of that time frame, around twelve fifty am,

0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:35.720
<v Speaker 2>four miles away at the Crown Sterling Suites Hotel. People

0:39:35.920 --> 0:39:43.279
<v Speaker 2>like Kenyara, Dedra Stanley, Queisi, Mama Cat all remember that night.

0:39:44.200 --> 0:39:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Their corroborated statements weave together a shield. That shield should

0:39:50.360 --> 0:39:54.319
<v Speaker 2>protect to Forest and Ardregas from the accusations about to

0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:59.200
<v Speaker 2>head their way. But it doesn't. The state would arrest

0:39:59.360 --> 0:40:03.600
<v Speaker 2>to Forest and Ardregis, try them and seek the death

0:40:03.640 --> 0:40:13.239
<v Speaker 2>penalty against both of them for Deputy Hardy's murder. For

0:40:13.320 --> 0:40:16.600
<v Speaker 2>the last three years, I've been trying to figure out.

0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:17.440
<v Speaker 1>How this happened.

0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:22.839
<v Speaker 2>I've read through thousands of pages of court transcripts and

0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:27.080
<v Speaker 2>investigative documents. I've done a full audit of all the

0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:31.960
<v Speaker 2>media coverage and interviewed more than eighty people, including several

0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:37.000
<v Speaker 2>who were directly involved in this investigation and prosecution, and

0:40:37.120 --> 0:40:42.279
<v Speaker 2>many who have never spoken publicly about the case. I'm

0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:46.080
<v Speaker 2>not trying to find the real killer of Deputy Hardy.

0:40:46.840 --> 0:40:52.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm investigating why that person was never found. One of

0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:55.799
<v Speaker 2>the first things I tried to unwind, how did to

0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Forrest Johnson and ardregus Ford end up at the center

0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.479
<v Speaker 2>of the investigation when they were somewhere else at the time.

0:41:03.560 --> 0:41:09.560
<v Speaker 2>Deputy Hardy was killed. Here's one thing everyone agrees on.

0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:15.040
<v Speaker 2>After they leave Tea's place to Forrest and Ardregas pick

0:41:15.120 --> 0:41:17.520
<v Speaker 2>up two girls and the Monte Carlo.

0:41:18.120 --> 0:41:19.160
<v Speaker 1>One sits in the.

0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Back by Ardregas's wheelchair, the other one sits between Ardregas

0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:27.440
<v Speaker 2>and to Forest in the front. And that girl the

0:41:27.480 --> 0:41:31.600
<v Speaker 2>one in the front seat. What she tells police will

0:41:31.680 --> 0:41:35.319
<v Speaker 2>land to Forest and Ardregas right at the center of

0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:36.200
<v Speaker 2>the investigation.

0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:46.719
<v Speaker 5>I'm at the Shriff's office headquarters along with Yolanda Michelle Chambers.

0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:50.400
<v Speaker 5>Yolanda is a black female.

0:41:50.680 --> 0:41:52.120
<v Speaker 18>She's fifteen years of age.

0:41:53.280 --> 0:41:54.160
<v Speaker 1>That's next time.

0:42:00.480 --> 0:42:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Ear Witness is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts

0:42:04.239 --> 0:42:09.239
<v Speaker 2>in association with Signal Company Number One. Executive producers are

0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:14.200
<v Speaker 2>Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and me Beth Shelburn.

0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:17.880
<v Speaker 2>The investigative reporting for this series was done by Me

0:42:18.239 --> 0:42:23.799
<v Speaker 2>and Mara McNamara. Producers are MARAA. McNamara, Hannah Beal, and

0:42:23.920 --> 0:42:29.799
<v Speaker 2>Jackie Pauley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer. Britt Spangler

0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:34.520
<v Speaker 2>is our sound designer. Additional story editing from Marie Sutton,

0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:39.840
<v Speaker 2>fact check help from Katherine Newhan, and special thanks to

0:42:40.000 --> 0:42:44.360
<v Speaker 2>to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can follow the

0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 2>show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for Good.

0:42:50.120 --> 0:42:53.480
<v Speaker 2>To see behind the scenes content from our investigation, visit

0:42:53.680 --> 0:42:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Lava for Good dot com. Slash earwitness

0:43:04.040 --> 0:43:04.680
<v Speaker 4>To the