WEBVTT - Jared and his “Things” 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:10.600 Hell I suck with Deben Heart Radio podcast. Hey, we're 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:13.440 gonna help I suck at dating. I'm Jared Habn. We're 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.520 joined once again by the wonderful, charismatic and uh just 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.840 better in all aspects of life. We have Kaylin and 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.120 we have a Caroline Lonny which I pronounced properly this time. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.240 Uh yeah, hell yeah, I'm getting better. And of course, 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.040 like I said, we have Calin on Everybodo's Klin Miller 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:38.720 Keys Uh future wife of Dean Anglert. Uh you headline 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.040 starting now? Hell yeah, that's that's it. That's what we 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.760 like to or maybe current wife of Dean Anglert. Truly, 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:46.440 we still don't know if you guys are married or not. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.360 But we have a wonderful guest uh joining us very 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.960 shortly from the host of the podcast Lovers and Friends. 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.959 It is intimacy expert Shan Boudram, which is a lot 0:00:58.000 --> 0:00:59.840 of fun to say. She's gonna be joining us rate. 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:02.440 Actually I think she just hopped on. Shan. You're there, 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.760 I am here, are we're starting. We're just gonna go 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.119 right into it. How are you. I'm doing great. There's 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:11.039 a box of clothes behind me. I've got to move 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:12.920 because you know, you can't see what it looks like 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.639 until it's too late. So here we are the worst 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:18.800 first eate night. It makes you feel any better. I 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:20.720 threw a bunch of ships in the kitchen so that 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:22.759 way you guys couldn't see it in the back. So 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.160 I was in the same boat. So well, at least 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.880 you did the thing, Caroline. You threw it. Now mine 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.480 is literally obviously, But Mike, it's a mess in the kitchen. 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:33.720 You know what, Just to make you feel better, I'm 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.400 gonna show you what I did. Oh God, here we go. 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.080 She's taking us on a tour through her kitchen. There 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:43.160 it is, yeah, right there, because so just you know, 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.240 to keep it real so you feel okay about your 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.520 box back. You're good to. Caroline is the type of 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.920 person that just sweeps everything under the rug. I like, yeah, 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:53.720 you gotta hide. I trust me. I do the same thing. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:55.560 So Shan, thank you so much for joining us today. 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:57.600 I really appreciate it. We know that you are an 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.960 intimacy expert and you spent many, many years is discussing 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:05.120 everything from relationships to sex. Uh. You have millions and 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.560 millions of views on YouTube. You've been on Netflix and 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.200 Hulu ABC. I don't mean to give your whole bio 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.760 just right now, but just tell us a little bit 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:15.960 about what your passion is in life, why do you 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.919 why you host the podcast Lovers and Friends? Uh, and 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:20.720 a little bit of what you do. Oh. I think 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.480 you just hit the whole thing in the head. My passion. 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.359 It's always interesting. People are like, who's trying to see 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:26.600 if we align with your brand? And like, if it's 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.520 about sex, love, relationships and dating, yes, If it's not, 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.360 probably not. So I think I'm pretty simple in that way. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.519 I just have a passion for connection and a passion 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.440 for intimacy and in general. It was just kind of 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.120 the aha that I had after a really shitty teen 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.720 sex life of why isn't this information more accessible? And 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:49.600 why is misinformation more accessible, more palatable and consumable than 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.840 actual good information education? So I saw a need for 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.200 someone to bridge the gap between sex selling and sex education. 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.480 And that was back in like two thousand five or something. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:03.520 Um that I had that A Haan, I've been rocking 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.960 with that same mission ever since. So what got you 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.200 into it? Because I I love that you're I love 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:15.240 that you're making sex easier conversation to have because it 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.120 needs to. We're actually talking about last time on the 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.040 podcast about how there is this taboo with a lot 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:25.000 of different aspects of relationships woman's bodies, sex relationships were 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:26.880 just nobody knows what the hell they're talking about, and 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.520 they just say things that don't make sense and don't 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.240 ever actually come to fruition. So how did this start 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.840 with you? You You said you had a shy teen relationship. 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.800 That's exactly it. Yeah, on my own best case study 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.440 that essentially I was somebody who was you know, some 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.800 kids are naturally drawn to the piano when they're young. 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:46.840 I was just naturally drawn to the human body. I 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:48.960 mean like four or five years old. You know, my 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.400 barbies were naked all the time, and I just like, 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.119 I loved the body and I was very fascinated by connection. Um, 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.440 But unlike the piano, that was not an interest that 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.800 my parents encouraged. So I definitely went through a lot 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.360 of shame and repression around my sexuality, which led me 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:09.280 as I got older, to finding back doorways of teaching myself. 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.680 So when I turned fourteen or so, um, I knew 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.680 I couldn't go to my parents where I went to 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.720 a Catholic school, I couldn't go there. So to answer 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.039 the questions I had about what is intimacy and what 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.599 is sex? I watched a lot of porn. I read 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.760 a lot of fiction books. I watched TV shows like 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.240 Gossip Girl and n their fiction TV shows, and I thought, 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.000 ah ha, this is how it works, this is what 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.080 I should do. Um, And I essentially threw myself into 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.600 my intimate life with that as my guide post. And 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.640 it took me to several dead ends. And at that point, 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.039 as at the fork in the road of Okay, either 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.400 my parents and my priest and church was right, this 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.719 is a terrible thing that you should just ignore or 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.400 else it's going to lead to pain and suffering, or 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.640 I have had the wrong teachers. And so why don't 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.520 I try myself? So I enrolled in a library and 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.080 I spent an entire summer just reading every book I 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.280 could about sex, from Masked as in Johnson's to the 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.920 Kinsey Institute. And I was like, Wow, there's great information 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.719 here that could have saved me so much heartbreak, so 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.720 much unnecessary trips to the sexual health clinic. UM, if 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.960 I would have had this. However, it's just not sexy. 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:20.279 You know, sex ed is not sexy. And that's again 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.359 because kind of where I had that aha moment of 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.560 because I actually was enrolled to go in school into 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.320 school for journalism that coming September when I turned nineteen. 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.240 So that was for me of like, this could be 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.240 the thing that I talked about, This could be the 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.800 stories that I share and that I tellum, And that's 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.800 I'm still rocking with that today. It's so incredibly self 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.200 aware of you because you're eighteen years old at this 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:44.440 point again nineteen eight Like I feel like I'm thirty 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.200 one and just starting to kind of have these conversations 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.400 with myself and I just went through a really atrocious 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:55.200 breakup and with an abusive boyfriend, and um, it's it's 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.159 so I'm now like re evaluating and looking at everything. 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:00.520 And so it's so cool to be that young and 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.120 to be like, hey, like this it doesn't work, something's 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.400 not right, and to take that initiative is so impressive 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.320 to me because they're so you were so young when 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:13.039 you started. Well, congratulations on your breakup. That's really people 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.680 say that. Thank you so much. I want to high 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.120 five about it, because yeah, you don't there's this weird 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.599 shame associated with breakups and it's like I'm unwanted and 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.560 I was like, no, this is great, and so thank you. 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.679 Not enough people say that because it is a let's 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.640 congratulate high five about it, because well, I actually my 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.400 episode of my podcast this week, which we're charting at 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.120 number one O nine this week because it's been a 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.880 really great one, and it's by Cammy Crawford, and it's 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:43.040 called um Breakups Are Fun. And Cammy just went through 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.839 a breakup. She's the host of Catfish right now alongside 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.680 the Girl Yes and the caracting girl Yeah. And she 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.680 was just sententially talking about how her breakup UM she's 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:53.719 hoping becomes a breakthrough, and I was just sharing the 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.599 science behind how this can be one of the most 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.120 incredible catalyst and people's lives now. A lot of people 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.240 there's kind of just like thought process out there that 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.680 you have to go through the bad to learn, and 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:05.799 I built my career off the premise that you don't 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:10.160 have to do that. But the truth is, yeah, Unfortunately, 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.400 the reason I got into this space is because of 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.040 so many negative experiences and getting to that place of 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.440 rock bottom of like I have one of two choices 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.320 either I stop all together and quick because it's so terrible, 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.480 or I find a brand new route that has felt 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.600 inaccessible to me. So you know, whether it happens at 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.680 thirty one, or happens in nineteen, or happens in sixty five. Um, 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.400 hopefully we get to that place where we realize that 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.200 the information that we're given is not leading us to 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:37.440 the life that we want, and then we decided something 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:41.480 about it. But hopefully, hopefully the newer generation actually has 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.520 educators and accessible leaders who can help them so they 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.640 don't have to go through those really dark places to 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.720 find their light. I was gonna ask your typical audiences 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.560 that it is it people in relationships or single people. Um, 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:56.200 I have to do a poll for kind of to 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.000 see what that is. My I know, my, you know, 0:07:58.320 --> 0:07:59.960 you know, you don't get those stats like on your 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.240 algorithm stuff. You know you get I know that it's 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.720 people twenty five and app So it's usually people who are, um, 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:08.640 you know, in that place where they're starting to think 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.160 more mindfully because unfortunately, yeah, when you're in your teens 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.560 in the younger years, maybe you want to know how 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:15.880 to give the best blow jobs, like how condoms work. 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.440 But like, are you worried about your attachment style at 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.200 that time? Probably not, should you be, absolutely so five 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.000 to thirty five ish. So it's that person who's in 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.160 that space of trying to find their person and find 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.680 their groove. Um. And it's probably a mix of of 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.679 single and connected people because you know, my podcast Ranges 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.240 and Topics and we did Dating in your twenties last 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.400 week and people loved that because a lot of people 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.240 are single and going through that period of like this 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.720 is nuts. But I would hope it's a mix of both. Well. 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.520 I feel like intimacy is so weird now, especially with 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:52.000 the pandemic and like trying to you know, be intimate 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.520 and even just even just meeting people. It's like so 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.120 interesting that pandemic was you know, hard for so many reasons, 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:02.079 but people in my industry blew it open. And I 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:03.520 don't know if you guys can to test this because 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.240 you obviously are contributors and educators in this space as well. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:10.040 But it's almost as if when we stopped worrying about 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.320 like our Starbucks stamp card and our commute to work 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.840 and if we're getting a promotion or if our gym 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.400 membership is serving us like everything else. When that got 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.120 shut down and all we had was the people in 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.800 our home, people had to really rethink and all of 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.679 a sudden they started to prioritize or intimate relationships in 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.520 the way that they didn't. So I feel like my 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.719 work and the need for my work went huge. The 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.080 spike went huge, way up as a result of the pandemic. 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.680 So it changed stuff a lot for datas and it 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.360 made things. I think it made things more difficult or 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.200 more easy, kind of depending on what your style is, 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.880 because some people the way things weren't doze nineteen was 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.240 not working for them. Now that things are slowed down 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.079 and they're much more intentional um and there's a lot 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.679 more of a focus on things to know people versus 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.000 getting to touch people. Some people really benefited from that shift, 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:02.839 But I think overall, everybody rethought their intimate relationships in 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.320 the way they hadn't before. I also think that's probably 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.640 pretty evident from how many relationship podcasts that have like 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.160 sparked in the past a little bit um So I 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:15.719 think it's dalin all been pretty good for people. Reprioritizing 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:18.800 relationships shook it up in a way that we clearly 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:23.720 needed how did we get here? Why did sex become 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.240 such a taboo thing to talk about? I thought you 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.439 were asking about the pandemic, and I was like, how 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:34.360 did this get tell us? We know you have the answer. Yeah, 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:38.160 this is where I started spending all my crazy conspiracy theory. 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.640 So I'm sorry I got lost on Muhan. What was her? 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.640 What were you actually going with this question? I wanted 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.600 to know, how do you think that we got here 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:49.320 with sex being such a taboo conversation to have? Man, 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.240 I mean, I would like to think altruistically, like when 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.000 I think about the Bible, right, like why in the 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:59.000 Bible is it promoted to wait for sex until marriage? 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.760 And why is it promoted not to have multiple partners, 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.719 not to touch yourself into masturbate. And I think that 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.280 health care access is a big part of that. So 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.680 you know that many years ago there there probably wasn't 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.640 a systematic healthcare practice that there was like one person 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.120 in the city, and so people having multiple partners, and 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.920 there was no birth control, so people having children out 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.800 of wedlock where they couldn't support that child and getting 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.400 several venereal diseases that obviously probably was an ideal for 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:32.480 like society's progress. So I think creating a belief system 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:34.600 that hey, like if you have stained from sex and 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.600 make smarter choices, and you know, as much as marriage 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.440 is like a cure all for not getting a STD, 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.720 but it does also also ensure you have two parents 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.000 who are like hopefully equally prioritized in child rearing. So 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.040 I understand it from that perspective that it actually was 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.320 a solution to a world that didn't have birth control 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.040 and didn't have healthcare and probably didn't have as much 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.480 information or knowledge around sex in general. And and then 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.880 I just think people got getting weird with it. I 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.160 don't know, it just became some yeah puritan and it 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:08.320 twisted into something that was about control and shane and fear. 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.000 I'd like to think that it started out of a 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:24.880 place of altruism, and I also like to think about 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.400 it's like encouraging connection. Also, It's like, you know, because 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.679 obviously sex feels good. So if we were all just 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.480 kind of running around like with everybody, it's kind of again, 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.200 you're lacking that intimacy if you're just kind of going 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.480 out and thinking everything that walks. It's nice to have 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.640 that kind of moment where you go oh hey, wait 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.120 a minute, Let's not just you know, think with our downstairs. 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.319 Let's you know, work on this intimacy and develop this connection. 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.760 So maybe, I mean, I agree with what you're saying. 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.760 With at the time, it probably made the most sense, 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.760 but obviously that doesn't really it doesn't work for us anymore. 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.560 But again, rather than just sleeping with every everybody, just 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:05.200 kind of focusing again on the intimacy and connecting with people. Yeah, 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:06.960 one of the greatest things I think that I get 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.320 to do is the study of science and sex and 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.200 love is so fascinating. And you know, what we know 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.680 now is the difference between like a sex drive and 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:18.320 a romantic drive. And there's a difference between obviously lust 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:22.680 and love and passionate experiences and companion experiences. So it's 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:28.600 very possible to separate sexuality from emotional intimacy. But they're 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.880 coupled together in a way to support evolutionary function. But 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.760 if you're aware of that, you can like decouple them 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.120 kind of like how our addiction to sugar or are 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:43.240 draw to sugar is based on evolutionary merit, because you know, 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.000 if you're out there in the wild and you eat 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.640 something sweet, very few things are poisonous that are sweet, 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:48.960 so your body is like more and more and more 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.360 and more and more. Obviously, now that doesn't really work 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.040 when like snickers are on deck in two thousand twenty two, 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.320 So we have to now decouple our like natural drive 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.600 for sugar with like what our actual biological needs are. 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.400 Not to be said, I think it's very That was 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.320 a very heavy way of me saying, like, yeah, tens 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.640 of thousands of people, as long as you're very well 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.280 aware of how to de couple emotional connections from that, 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.080 because you know, doing both can be very damaging unless 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.240 you're in a very mature, polyamous relationship. And then furthermore 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:21.040 that you have the ability to ethically choose partners who 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:22.880 are able to do the same so that people are 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.560 not having sex at the cost of their mental health. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:32.520 So how do we change how do we make things better? 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.640 You know you're doing you know what my question is, 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.200 because you even said that a lot of your demographic 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.040 is twenty five and of but you know, as someone 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.880 like even my own experiences as being a guy being 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.480 friends with guys, a lot of what I learned about 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.520 sex was also from porn, which I don't think is 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.760 the best thing. I'm not anti porn, but I am 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.720 also anti learning how to have sex from porn because 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:57.960 then there's certain expectations and both women and women feel 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.080 like they should be, um, you know, reaching a certain 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:07.320 level of satisfaction that's probably not realistic. Definitely not realistic. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.040 So I think, you know, and then there's also like 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.600 the addiction part of porn, which is a different conversation. 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:15.800 But I guess my question is what do we do 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.120 because I think that there has to be conversations had 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.080 with the younger generation, but how do you how do 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:27.360 you blend that together with being not overly um, I 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.440 don't know how to describe it. Like I just couldn't 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.160 imagine a lot of parents not wanting to have to 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.400 have their kids go to school and have conversations like this. 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.320 But also I think it might be needed, especially in 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:39.400 teenage years where those hormones start, you know, coming full 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.320 full scale. Yeah, I mean, it definitely is necessary. It 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.400 is a challenge. I started in this space at nineteen 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.720 and thirty six now, so I think it needs to 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.440 be a younger person than me. You know, if you're 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.680 going to it's about peer education, having somebody who's got 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.320 like a relative knowledge or who's in the school system 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.160 or has a kid around that age, Like you have 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.720 to immerse yourself and the experiences of what it's like 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.440 to be young growing up today and sexual and aware 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.800 of how to talk their language, and also meet them 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.680 where they're at right now. So I think it takes 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.720 that special expertise number one and number two. Yeah, when 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.080 I did work more predominantly with teens and younger people, 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.320 like my first book, Laid came out in two thousand nine, 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.480 and that book was four people under twenty four. Like 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.960 I was very clear that like, if you're over twenty four, 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:22.920 I don't want to hear from you, and like I'm 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.000 not interested in your perspective, and also like this is 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.400 who this is for um. It was hard man, Like 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.000 there's so much more judgment. You have to be very 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:32.920 cautious of the language you use, you have to be 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.120 very cautious of the topics you talk about when you 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:39.280 get parents involved, and then you know, ultimately I started, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.400 I don't know about yourself, but I started watching porn 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.840 at like thirteen fourteen. But you're supposed to pretend that 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.000 nobody's sexual until eighteen, So it's difficult to access that 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.360 crowd because parents are still under the illusion that their 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.720 kids are here. So it's very difficult to get into 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.840 the teen education space. And to those people who are 0:16:57.920 --> 0:16:59.880 doing it now and do a good job, like, kudos 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:02.080 to you, because you gotta really, like you know, in 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.960 those movies where you break into a bank and there's 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:06.880 all these like lasers and you have to like jump 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.119 in between them, like make it to the other side, 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.399 like to actually make an impact. I think in that 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.920 space there's a lot that you have to arm yourself with, 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.639 both education wise, but then also like censorship because you 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.080 have to tread that line so carefully. It's funny that 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.440 you bring this topic up because I literally was having 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.880 a kind of conversation with myself yesterday. Um so, Shan, 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:30.800 I'm in the middle of doing fertility treatments and I'm 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.840 freezing my eggs and that kind of congratulations again, look 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.240 at you making all these great choices for your life, 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.879 trying to um But so in going through it, you know, 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.200 I think about being a parent a lot, and like 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.399 the conversations, and something popped into my head and like, 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:47.320 oh my god, one day I have to give a 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.560 sex talk. And it was just like oh, like as 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.359 we never know. And then for a second it was 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.160 like scary to be like, oh, that's a big deal. 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.320 And then I thought about it, like how my mom me, 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.119 you know, the sex talk, she and my dad waited 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.960 until they were married and blah blah blah, and she 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.040 was just a liar, Like she just lied to me 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.320 and she was a big fat liar and in her 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.399 path that I wish she had told me because it 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.440 would have won and made me feel like I could 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.560 have gone to her with more and to like I 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.960 would have. I think that there was just so much 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.080 shame associated with it and like you were the same 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:30.480 as me, like why and so yeah, like what the hell? 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.400 And so it's just so funny that those gets brought 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.440 up now because I was thinking about, you know, the 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.680 way I want to approach these conversations, and I think 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.399 it's so important to be honest with your kids, because 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:41.960 let's be real, like how old were you when you 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.120 lost your virginity and you're trying to ask your kid 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:48.119 to wait longer than you And it's like, I don't know, 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.040 I've been watching three I don't know if you guys 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.560 are watching and it's fantastic, highly recommend But it's just 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.280 it's cool to watch the way that they parent their 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.960 daughter in that show, and they give her so much 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.960 trust and responsibility because you know it is your your child, 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:01.760 so you know, you obviously want to shield them and 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.960 protect them. Um, but having these open conversations with them 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.280 and treating them like an adult and like the adult 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:10.200 that you thought you were at that age, I think 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.480 is helpful. I think it's just kind of creates this 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.920 open space to have this dialogue and where your kids 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.800 can come to you and have these conversations and just 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.040 to be like, hey, I don't know, I don't have 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.719 all the right answers, but this is what happened to me, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.679 and here's what I learned from that. And you know, 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.280 hopefully you know you can make these decisions for yourself, 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.080 and I can't be the one to make that choice 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:35.840 for you. I can't tell you what is the right 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:40.080 age to lose your virginity, but I hope that you 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.000 can make that choice and make it and don't. It's 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.760 not something that you take lightly. And so I just 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.720 think parents need to be having more honest conversations and 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.840 being real with our kids about Hey, um, I was fifteen, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.280 you know, yeah, I have the exact same exsweris of 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.640 my mom where it was like, I'm supposed to tell 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.359 the person, you know who waited until mayor our age 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.000