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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph.

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Speaker 1: I never told your production of I Heart Radio it

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Speaker 1: is time for another book club. We're a little late

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Speaker 1: on this one. Yeah, we get we're a little hind

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Speaker 1: but we'll get there. Yeah, we are there. In fact,

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Speaker 1: this is another listener suggestion because today we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the Joy Luck Club and this is also another book

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Speaker 1: that you had already read, right, yes, yes, And I

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Speaker 1: think it's fantastic that we're doing this also because it

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Speaker 1: is a p I Heritage month and um, though I

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily think too much on it because my heritage

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Speaker 1: is Korean, but all of those like so I'll think

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Speaker 1: about it all the time necessarily, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: a good time for us to visit this book. And yes,

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Speaker 1: I have read it. Before I leave. I read it.

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Speaker 1: I think it was one of my accelerated reader books

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Speaker 1: because I told you I like to do the adult

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Speaker 1: version so I could get all the points. And it's

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Speaker 1: a very long book and I'm pretty sure I had

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Speaker 1: read it for that specifically, But it was such an

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Speaker 1: impactful book because when I read it, I believe I

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Speaker 1: was in my teens early teens, and I had not

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Speaker 1: read many books I had any type of Asian persons

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Speaker 1: or Asian representatives at all, even though it's not my

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Speaker 1: culture and it's not my heritage. Obviously, I am a

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Speaker 1: Korean uh and so therefore it's very different. As well

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Speaker 1: as the fact that I was raised in the mountains

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Speaker 1: of Georgia beginning from six seven on, because I moved

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Speaker 1: into the US at seven, it was still reminiscent and

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Speaker 1: made me long for a thing that I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was missing out on. But it also felt nice,

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Speaker 1: especially since the movie came out in and seeing Asian

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Speaker 1: faces as an actual storyline instead of just you know,

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Speaker 1: secondary figures or um the stereotypical figures. You know that

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Speaker 1: it's often just a mockery of Asian people, so it

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Speaker 1: was nice to see this and to see them human.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we can talk about all of the critics

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Speaker 1: who have a lot to say about how this may

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Speaker 1: be enhancing negative stereotypes, for sure, But for me at

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Speaker 1: that point in time, living in the mountains of Georgia

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Speaker 1: with all the white people's seeing faces that looked reminiscent

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Speaker 1: to mine as actual humans and families and stories was

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Speaker 1: phenomenal and reading that as well, so definitely something that

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Speaker 1: I was really excited to read, and I'm really glad

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Speaker 1: to get to revisit it. Yeah, I had never read

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Speaker 1: it before, but I have an interesting story about I

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Speaker 1: already owned it and before you came to work with

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Speaker 1: the Samantha, we had a really cool tradition in our office.

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Speaker 1: This was also when we were a much smaller company

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Speaker 1: and it's like thirty of us, but we would do

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Speaker 1: a white elf fins where we would all wrap a

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Speaker 1: book that we'd already read and exchange. This is a

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Speaker 1: real blast from the past. But if anybody has listened

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Speaker 1: to the entire catalog, or I guess just older episodes

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Speaker 1: of Stuckuments in History Class. One of the older host, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: her entry was joy Let Club and that's the one

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Speaker 1: that I picked. And I had heard of it because

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Speaker 1: of the movie, I think, and it did. I mean

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Speaker 1: when it came out when we'll talk about this, it

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Speaker 1: was really popular and really were well received. But I

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Speaker 1: had not read it because you know, you can't see

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Speaker 1: it listens with savant Acain. I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: books and I had to remember when I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to set aside sometime to search survival.

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Speaker 1: I like that fact that you look back saying like

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Speaker 1: oh no, essentially trying to figure out a plan how

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Speaker 1: to dig this book from the pile. And it was

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Speaker 1: really really funny because I like put it on my calendar.

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Speaker 1: I blocked off like an hour. I rolled up my sleeves,

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Speaker 1: I put my hair up, and I was like, here

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Speaker 1: we go. And I got on my step sool and

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Speaker 1: it was the first book on to Okay, I's gonna

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Speaker 1: ask how long did it take? So like fifty eight

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Speaker 1: minutes left. It was pretty nice nice. So you just

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Speaker 1: blocked off of some reading times right there. I did.

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Speaker 1: I did, and I was like you said, it's a

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Speaker 1: long book, but it was pretty quick read for me.

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Speaker 1: Um I it was really really well written, and I

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Speaker 1: enjoyed it quite a bit. I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things about that Boo gets stuck with me. The

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Speaker 1: of course re reading it, it's been a long long

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Speaker 1: time and rereading it, I still remember these impactful scenes

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Speaker 1: which we're gonna talk about and just thinking on like

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Speaker 1: the level. And of course we've talked about this earlier.

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Speaker 1: We talked about this in our recent Happy Hour episode

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Speaker 1: about heritage and legacy, and this is just dripping with

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Speaker 1: all of those themes. And I definitely have a moment

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Speaker 1: of trying to reconcile the fact that I don't have

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Speaker 1: this legacy and I don't this heritage and trying to

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Speaker 1: debate how to find that and how that that works

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Speaker 1: for me. And reading this book definitely reminds me of that.

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Speaker 1: I think that's why I loved it too. It fulfilled

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Speaker 1: a bit of me then you didn't have that makes sense? Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And this book was actually first published in nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, it became a movie in ninety three with

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Speaker 1: Mgna Win, which I talked about all the time because

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Speaker 1: I love her. I love her so much. I think

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Speaker 1: she was one of the first Asian actresses that I

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Speaker 1: actually saw with depth. Like of course, many more Chinese

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Speaker 1: movies came out, and I love those. So I love

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Speaker 1: hero and all of all the different actresses that we

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Speaker 1: see and actors we've seen that, but Magna when had

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Speaker 1: the you know, the Asian cheeks that I feel like

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Speaker 1: I had that like a little sticker and cute, but

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Speaker 1: like she's a beautiful woman who was not seeing just

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Speaker 1: as a prop where she was the voice in Mulan,

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Speaker 1: which made me love her even more in the Disney

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Speaker 1: animation version, of course, and of course she's now part

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Speaker 1: of the Our Wars world. And I was so excited

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Speaker 1: I kept screaming at the TV and my partner just

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Speaker 1: looked at me, like, what what's going on because he

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Speaker 1: couldn't understand how excited I'm like. And also, this woman

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Speaker 1: has not aged. This woman has not aged, Like there's

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Speaker 1: something phenomenal about having watched her literally over what twenty

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Speaker 1: something years, twenty seven years, twenty eight years is the

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Speaker 1: first time I saw her and she has not changed.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I love Also Russell Wong. I have a

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Speaker 1: huge crush on him, so seeing him he was actually

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Speaker 1: a bad guy in this movie. So Murph, Yes, I

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Speaker 1: have enjoyed mg Nowen and uh the Mandalorian, and I

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Speaker 1: loved when she geeked out about Star Wars and she

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Speaker 1: was like, this is how impactful the Skywalker was for me,

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Speaker 1: and to imagine I'd be acting with him, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, I feel you, feel you. I just

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Speaker 1: love her at Dragon Convents, it was very cool. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I think I might actually like if I actually worked

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Speaker 1: to meet her. I don't get to fluster with celebrities.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm just like, yeah, whatever. She would be one

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Speaker 1: of those that I'd just be like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I love you, and you like quietly back, and then

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Speaker 1: I never actually speak to her. Yes, yes well. This

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Speaker 1: book is written by Amy Tan and it follows four

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Speaker 1: fictional Chinese immigrant families, particularly mothers and daughters, after they

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Speaker 1: migrate to the United States. With sixteen interwoven stories, it

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Speaker 1: tells the intergenerational and intercultural stories and conflicts of the

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Speaker 1: mothers and their daughters who were raised in America when

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Speaker 1: it comes to things like yes, culture and heritage. One

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Speaker 1: of the daughters, Jing May or June, journeys to China

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Speaker 1: to meet her half sisters twins that her mother was

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Speaker 1: forced to leave there she fled Japanese invasion during World

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Speaker 1: War two. Um and their mom intended to return for

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Speaker 1: her daughters, but died before she could. So it's kind

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Speaker 1: of framed around that premise of Jing May learning that

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Speaker 1: and then having questions about heritage and culture and these

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Speaker 1: stories of her mother and how can she tell those stories. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The four families come together to form the joy Luck Club,

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Speaker 1: a weekly gathering to play meijng and eat delicious booze

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Speaker 1: that Jimmy's mother, so young part took up in China,

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Speaker 1: and we started with the three other Chinese immigrant families

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Speaker 1: in San Francisco. So and of course the differentiations between

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Speaker 1: the two clubs are very evident, uh, including the fact

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Speaker 1: that it kind of now has become an investment club

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Speaker 1: and they take their money and invest in different stocks.

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Speaker 1: So I thought that was interesting. After her mom's death,

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Speaker 1: and Jimmy takes her mom's spot in the club, and

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Speaker 1: that's how she learns of her half sisters in China

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Speaker 1: and her mother searched for them. The other women in

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Speaker 1: the club encouraging May to continue her mother's work and

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Speaker 1: reunite with our half sisters, and she may express his

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Speaker 1: concerns that she won't be able to tell her mother's story,

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Speaker 1: and the other women at the club, Thando yinging in

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Speaker 1: On May admit her concerns might not be unfounded and

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Speaker 1: that they have some similar concerns about their own daughters. Structurally,

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Speaker 1: the book is set up like a ma Gen game

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Speaker 1: four sections further divided into four narratives, and the first section,

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Speaker 1: the mothers tell the stories of their lives and remember

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Speaker 1: their own mothers. Although Jing May tells her own mother

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Speaker 1: story what she knows of it since her mom had

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Speaker 1: passed away, And yeah, they worry that their daughters won't

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Speaker 1: remember them with the same appreciation or dedication that they

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Speaker 1: feel like they remember their own mothers. And the next

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Speaker 1: section we learned about the four daughters, jing May, Waverley, Rose,

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Speaker 1: and Lena and their experiences and their own memories of

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Speaker 1: their their mother's stronger perhaps than the mothers believe that

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Speaker 1: they are. The following section digs into problems the adult

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Speaker 1: daughters are having in things like relationships and careers, and

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Speaker 1: also conflicting ideas about how the ways of their mothers

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Speaker 1: don't fit in with their American upbringing and ways to

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Speaker 1: reconcile that. In the last section, the mothers try to

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Speaker 1: bridge that gap and in the process learn more about

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Speaker 1: themselves and their daughters and the things they've passed on

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Speaker 1: our haven't, whether it's culture, religion, our passivity. Each section

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Speaker 1: opens with a parable related to the themes to be

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Speaker 1: covered in the coming section, like sacrifice and loss, and

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Speaker 1: the stories are presented in short vignettes. Through it, the

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Speaker 1: readers learn the formative experiences that made each of the

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Speaker 1: characters who they are, whether it's watching your mother making

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Speaker 1: sacrifices for her own mother that disowned her and arranged

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Speaker 1: marriage or yes, leaving your daughters behind right, jim May

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Speaker 1: travels to China and locates her half sisters and by

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Speaker 1: telling them about their mother, tells her mother's stories and

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Speaker 1: helps strengthen two more mother daughter relationships. From Amy Tan,

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Speaker 1: when reflecting on thirty years of this book, she said,

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Speaker 1: the characters are mothers who immigrated from China and their

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Speaker 1: modern thirties something American born daughters. The relationships are wrought

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Speaker 1: with years of misunderstand things and accumulated pain. A mother's

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Speaker 1: hopes and expectations become a daughter's sense of failure. A

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Speaker 1: mother's advice is received by a daughter as a rejection

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Speaker 1: of who she really is. The mother, in return, fills

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Speaker 1: her daughter knows nothing about her and has learned nothing

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Speaker 1: from her mother, the one who loved her best. In

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Speaker 1: that same article, she wrote about how many people often

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Speaker 1: perceived this book as a memoir even though it's not,

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Speaker 1: but how fiction can take pieces of truths from ourselves

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Speaker 1: and twist them or a Japan was a really interesting take,

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Speaker 1: and I loved her anecdotes of people coming up to

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Speaker 1: her like how did you deal when your mother did this,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, well, actually, my mother never did that.

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Speaker 1: I was just The power of storytelling is one of

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Speaker 1: the main themes throughout the novel. Quote, it's useless to

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Speaker 1: write about these things, my uncle said to my mother.

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Speaker 1: She can't change the past. My mother said in a

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Speaker 1: fire response, she can tell people what my mother suffered

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Speaker 1: a stain. She could not rebuff her back. She can

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Speaker 1: tell the world. That's how she can change it. And

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Speaker 1: the story itself was in part the result of a

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Speaker 1: promise Tam made to her mother and any deity that

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Speaker 1: would listen after her mother had what was at the

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Speaker 1: time preliminary believed to be a heart attack. It turned

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Speaker 1: out it wasn't it. Tam promised that if her mother survived,

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Speaker 1: she would truly listen to her mother's stories and travel

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Speaker 1: to China with her and meet her daughters from her

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Speaker 1: first marriage, and she did so. The bestselling book has

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Speaker 1: won numerous awards and received widespread critical acclaim, and regularly

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Speaker 1: is included on required reading lists around the country, including

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Speaker 1: My Accelerated Reader, and around the world. Some did criticize

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Speaker 1: it for what they saw as perpetuating negative Asian stereotypes

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Speaker 1: particularly around Asian men. And yeah, there's a big conversation

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Speaker 1: back and forth about is this a great representation? Is

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Speaker 1: just that again model minority level of stereotyping that they

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Speaker 1: put onto this. Are we perpetuating again a negative look

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Speaker 1: at the Asian men and whether or not they are

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Speaker 1: um as abusive, as or as neglectful as they see

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Speaker 1: him in this book? And of course that's not at

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Speaker 1: all from what I gathered what was being perpetuated. It

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Speaker 1: just was not a story about these men in general.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I know it was a big back and

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Speaker 1: forth even I could remember about, wow, this does not

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Speaker 1: look good for a lot of like the Asian conversations,

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Speaker 1: including the fact of like the tiger mom, the overbearing mom,

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Speaker 1: which has been also another stereotype that continues to build

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Speaker 1: and not go away, right for sure, for sure, And

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Speaker 1: speaking of we have a lot of themes that we

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Speaker 1: wanted to cover, but first we're gonna pause for a

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Speaker 1: quick break for work from responsor. Hey we're back, Thank you, sponsor.

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Speaker 1: And we wanted to start with the theme of family

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Speaker 1: because that's probably one of the biggest the entirety of

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Speaker 1: the of the actual stories, right and especially here the

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Speaker 1: mother daughter relationship, which is the primary theme throughout the

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Speaker 1: book as we jump from mother to daughter and the

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Speaker 1: stories we get to see um all of these different

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Speaker 1: stories as they weave together to show a balance of

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Speaker 1: how each of their lives did come together and reflect

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Speaker 1: within each other and off of each other. Through each

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Speaker 1: of the mothers, we see the stories of loss of connection,

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Speaker 1: loss of innocence, lots of family, and loss of spirit.

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Speaker 1: They talked about the lessons they learned through all of

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Speaker 1: this and how desperately they try to teach these lessons

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Speaker 1: to their daughters so that they would understand the depth

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Speaker 1: of loss and maybe could prevent their daughters from going

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Speaker 1: through the same tragedy. Right, So we wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: specifically about the tragedy and hardships, and we're gonna start

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Speaker 1: with suan Wu, who again we come to the story

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Speaker 1: after her death, so that's kind of the catalyst of

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Speaker 1: how this begins, and we get to hear the story

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Speaker 1: of origins and even the beginning of the Joy Lug

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Speaker 1: Club and why it's created. And her story is a

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Speaker 1: constant tell of tragedy and loss and her struggle in

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Speaker 1: escaping with as much as she could at the time,

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Speaker 1: including her two daughters that later gets left behind thinking

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Speaker 1: she was about to die. Um. And then we see

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Speaker 1: the new struggle of her trying to start over in

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Speaker 1: the US and reclaim her past. But again moved forward

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Speaker 1: in the present and we see through the eyes and

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Speaker 1: ears of her daughters and how little she knew about

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Speaker 1: her mom and her past, and and again the regrets

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Speaker 1: that her mother had, like she really had to sit

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Speaker 1: and pull from each of the aunties of the uh

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Speaker 1: my Gen Club, as well as her father who didn't

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Speaker 1: know too much either. He just knew bits and pieces

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Speaker 1: and it had to be pulled. And then through her

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Speaker 1: looking back, we know she did what she had to do.

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Speaker 1: Her mother's guilt is something that is evident for the

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Speaker 1: reader and for June or Jing May, and is rectified

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Speaker 1: when June is able to meet her long lost sisters

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Speaker 1: at last, and as she says, put her family together

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Speaker 1: and her mother's story out there right. And then um,

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Speaker 1: if we look at on May, Sue Amy's life so

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Speaker 1: very different from Sue Yahn's, also full of tragedy. We

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Speaker 1: learn about her childhood and the loss of her father

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Speaker 1: and the shame of her mother. She talks about the

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Speaker 1: many superstitions of her grandmother and her aunt and uncle

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Speaker 1: as she is raised believing her mother as a ghost,

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Speaker 1: only to realize that they had rather her mother be

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Speaker 1: dead than the life she had chosen as a concubine

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Speaker 1: or fourth wife of a wealthy man. Of course, we

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Speaker 1: learned it wasn't through her mother's own choices, but through

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Speaker 1: manipulation and lack of support that she was forced into

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Speaker 1: this life. Her mother's shame is something that her grandmother

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Speaker 1: Popo and the rest of the family has used against

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Speaker 1: her and tried to keep her away from her daughter.

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Speaker 1: After the suicide of her mother, on May is able

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Speaker 1: to get a type of justice for her mother and

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Speaker 1: for herself and her brother, but still has the loss

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Speaker 1: of her mother and her family to deal with. Later

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Speaker 1: in her adult life, with her family in America, she

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Speaker 1: goes through loss and tragedy as her youngest son being

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Speaker 1: drowns and um is the body is unable to be recovered,

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Speaker 1: and much like herself, her daughter Rose feels the loss

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Speaker 1: and responsibility of his death. And then there's Lindo Jong

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Speaker 1: whose tell what was it? Tell? Of will and determination.

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Speaker 1: Though she was trained to be a wife to her

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Speaker 1: future husband Tianyu, she was able to find a way out,

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Speaker 1: and she was able to secure freedom for herself while

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Speaker 1: giving Hi an opportunity to a servant girl who had

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Speaker 1: gotten pregnant. So the story, of course has a lot

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Speaker 1: of omens and dreams and interpretations. But she was promised

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Speaker 1: and to this young man she was trained up when

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Speaker 1: she was young to be his wife. He had no

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Speaker 1: interest in her, and then she had described the relationship

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Speaker 1: as a brother and sister, and she seemed okay with

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Speaker 1: that except when it was time for to get pregnant,

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Speaker 1: and because he refused to touch her and lied about

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Speaker 1: all these things. You know, the mother was very very

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Speaker 1: abusive towards her um. And then we get to see

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Speaker 1: her take that and turn that into her freedom and

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Speaker 1: being able to take what she knew and to survive

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Speaker 1: then coming to America. Though it allowed her the freedom

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Speaker 1: to become a new woman, it also was a threat

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Speaker 1: to her losing her own Chinese identity. But with this

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Speaker 1: is the divide between her and her daughter, Waverley, who

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Speaker 1: was raised to be American and with that seemingly ashamed

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Speaker 1: but at the same time guilty of the lack of

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Speaker 1: doing everything perfectly as she thought her mother expected. Um

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Speaker 1: and The conversation between Lindo and and and her daughter

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Speaker 1: is really interesting to see, especially when she like the

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Speaker 1: battle of their wills essentially, and yet at the same

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Speaker 1: time they also are fearful of each other and feel

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Speaker 1: guilty around each other. And it's an interesting like back

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Speaker 1: and forth with that family. But the struggle alone trying

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Speaker 1: to keep their identity at the same time, it is

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Speaker 1: interesting to see. Yeah, I was telling some maath before

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Speaker 1: we started recording. I read this in kind of a

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Speaker 1: world wind couple of hours and because of the way

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Speaker 1: there these stories are told from the first person, like

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the section it tells you who

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Speaker 1: it is, but then at least in my book, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't say at the top, so you have to kind

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Speaker 1: of keep in your mind, Okay, who is this and

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Speaker 1: how are they related to everybody? And I started being like, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the clever one, um, And that's how I

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Speaker 1: remembered Linda and Waverley is. I was like, Oh, she

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Speaker 1: was clever to get out of that marriage. Waverley is

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Speaker 1: clever in her chest. Like the connections. Yeah, linking the

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Speaker 1: families you have to because I did that too, because

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Speaker 1: some of them are some of course, because they go

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Speaker 1: through similar situations, it does seem a bit similar to

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Speaker 1: each other, and they are intertwined, as we know Waverley

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Speaker 1: and later on we know Waverley in Jing may are

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Speaker 1: photomise the lack of better terms. Yeah, yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: do think and we'll probably talk about this more later,

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Speaker 1: but Waverley in particular to her like final section where

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Speaker 1: you can just see her like making her mom into

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Speaker 1: the enemy. But her mom he wasn't even there. I

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Speaker 1: hadn't said anything, like she was her own. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that you know. Part of that is how she was raised.

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Speaker 1: But it was just interesting to see her have all

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Speaker 1: these doubts about like her new boyfriend is what I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of right getting married to him? And this is

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Speaker 1: before she'd even talked to her mother. But she's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my, she's not gonna like this. She's going to

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Speaker 1: tear it apart. And then there's Yinging or Betty st Clair.

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Speaker 1: She was a beautiful, wealthy young girl who grows old

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Speaker 1: at eighteen. She shared the story of her first husband,

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Speaker 1: who was cruel and eventually left her. We first hear

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Speaker 1: about some of her loss when she lost her third

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Speaker 1: son through her daughter Lena who translates her Chinese when

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Speaker 1: her father can't understand. We later learned that Yingying had

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Speaker 1: had an abortion and felt the loss of her third

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Speaker 1: son was a punishment. She also fears that she's somehow

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Speaker 1: taught her daughter to be as fearful and unable to

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Speaker 1: speak up for herself like she was during her first marriage.

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Speaker 1: Though she as a tiger, she didn't show her tiger's

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Speaker 1: side and feared her daughter was doing the same and

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Speaker 1: try to help her right. And I think the interesting

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Speaker 1: part is that her daughter didn't really know about that

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Speaker 1: first marriage until later on, and the reason why when

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Speaker 1: she was saying you need to speak up, you need

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Speaker 1: to work, you need to talk to your husband, she

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Speaker 1: wasn't saying fight for her marriage, which is what we

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Speaker 1: learned that things is happening because Lena never makes a

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Speaker 1: decision like she works for her husband, and then her

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Speaker 1: husband takes her ideas and then they have to split

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Speaker 1: everything evenly, even if it's not something that she wants.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't want to fight, so she just goes along

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Speaker 1: with it. And there's this whole level of like everything's

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Speaker 1: unbalanced for Yingying. She talks about being able to see

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Speaker 1: the future, being able to see omens as well. So

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Speaker 1: that's what she's talking about, and like she hasn't taught

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Speaker 1: her daughter these things and can see how her side,

401
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Speaker 1: her quiet side, is coming out, but she needs that

402
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Speaker 1: tiger side that she talks about the gold and black

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Speaker 1: and the black coming out being the fish side. So

404
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: it was interesting to see too, right right, right right.

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Speaker 1: And So one of the things that we've been touching

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Speaker 1: on throughout this and is another prominent team in the book,

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Speaker 1: is this idea around criticisms are miscommunication, like the daughter's

408
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Speaker 1: feeling criticized non mothers to a lesser extent, and yeah, miscommunication.

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Speaker 1: Obviously I don't have the same complex multicultural or racial

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Speaker 1: layer here, but I did relate to this because since

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Speaker 1: my dad has died, I have been reflecting a lot

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Speaker 1: on our relationship and where it went wrong, as they say,

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Speaker 1: And one of the things I keep coming back to

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Speaker 1: is I really fundamentally think we did not understand. He

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Speaker 1: didn't I didn't understand where he was coming from, and

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Speaker 1: I did. I did find out he had a first wife,

417
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Speaker 1: and I never knew about it. Like I had these

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Speaker 1: things where I'm like, wow, I never asked, and now

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Speaker 1: I can't ask it's too late, and that there was

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Speaker 1: this idea for me, maybe for some maybe for jing May.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but there was this idea that those

422
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Speaker 1: questions were too painful and maybe he was ashamed of

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Speaker 1: the answers and that's why we didn't talk about it.

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Speaker 1: But then it's the same at the end, when j

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00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: May learns this is like hugely important story about her

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Speaker 1: mom why she left her daughters, it's like this formative

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Speaker 1: traumatic experience, and to not know that until after she's gone, right,

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Speaker 1: I do think, yeah, there's that comes up a lot

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Speaker 1: in this of miscommunicating and not feeling like just being

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Speaker 1: on separate pages and not really realizing for sure exactly

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Speaker 1: what the other person means or what they're saying. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think there's definitely a whole level because I've thought

433
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: about this too, because when you are the child of someone,

434
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: you don't really think of them beyond the parental figure,

435
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: and then when you realize the stories of bigger stories,

436
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: you start wondering, wow, what happened? Because I've thought about

437
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: that too again, about heritage and legacy, what we're passing on.

438
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: What would I say? Would they know about these things

439
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: of my past which part of my past. What I

440
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: tell them, the good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful, what.

441
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: And I think that's again part of that conversation of

442
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: this level of miscommunication. Again of course literally they miscommunicate,

443
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: whether it's a language barrier because their parents can't say

444
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: it in English, and and even trying to formulate exactly

445
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: what they mean by it, they may not have a

446
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: translation for what they're saying. Just kind of back and

447
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: forth between Rose and her mother, and her mother trying

448
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: to say to save their marriage. She's known that that's

449
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. She's just trying to say, say what

450
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: you want finally come out. You don't have to change

451
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: your personality for each person. Be who you are. I

452
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: see you, you're you know, all these things. But she

453
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: could not say it, even though that's what she was

454
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: trying to say, and her of course, her daughter took

455
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: that as an insult of you need to work this

456
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: marriage out. You're gonna be a failure. Yeah, and yeah,

457
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: I think that's what we think of a lot of

458
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: ourselves with our parents. Whether it's again a miscommunication of

459
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: maybe hearing something as a child and believing that was

460
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: the only thing and misinterpreting what that was said, right,

461
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I think that's some big thing.

462
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: And again, whether we're talking about a language barrier or tradition,

463
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: the relationships show a breakdown a communication through the stereotype

464
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: of the tiger mom, which is pretty heavily weighed throughout stories.

465
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: Even sually we learned the deeper levels of why the

466
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: mothers communicate or don't communicate the way they do, which again, yeah,

467
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: the backbone of the fact that is they're fearful that

468
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: much like Jumi who says that literally says, I did

469
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: not know my mother, and they all protested like, oh, no,

470
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: of course you do, she's in your bones. That was

471
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 1: just more of a hope for themselves and they're like, oh,

472
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: we have to talk about this. But again, it isn't

473
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: just the fierceness of the mothers, but it's a level

474
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: of resentment from the daughters, who are first generation Chinese

475
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: Americans trying desperately to fit in at the same time

476
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: are afraid of not getting the approval of their mothers.

477
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: So it's an interesting again back and like you said,

478
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: a perceived idea of resent much much like other families,

479
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: we see a dismissal of the mother's ways and traditions

480
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: from the daughters, which often seem to see their mothers

481
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: as just old relics or maybe just old fashioned um as.

482
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: In fact, as a story proceeds, we see a perspective

483
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: from the mothers that show how they feel their daughters

484
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: not only dismiss them or ignore them, but push them away. Yeah,

485
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: kind of see them as maybe weak or foolish, um,

486
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: not worth listening to. Yeah. At the beginning of the story,

487
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: we see the fears of the mothers as June does, yeah,

488
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: when she talks about her deceased mom and how she

489
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: didn't really know her mother at all, and um, that

490
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: is the moment when all the mothers are like, oh, yeah,

491
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: maybe they their own daughters feel the same way. And

492
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: we've talked about failing and not living up to expectations

493
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 1: in this context, but that is a pretty big theme,

494
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: especially I think in the first I don't know, maybe

495
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: in both sections of the daughters. So they're like Waverley,

496
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: who was the chess prodigy. She thinks she's smarter than

497
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: her mother. We see her stubborn pride get quickly dismantled

498
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: when she is no longer able to win at chess

499
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: and prove herself as a prodigy. In fact, she loses

500
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: to somebody, she a young boy that she'd easily beat.

501
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: And this was all part of a kind of a

502
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: tetchet argument with her mother, and she was like, I'm

503
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: not playing chess, and she thought her mom would be like,

504
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: do you have to? But she was kind of like,

505
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: m hmm, it did. It backfired, and she talks about

506
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: her failure alongside the idea that her mother. She felt

507
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: that her mother was taking credit for her abilities, that

508
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: she was bragging about her like she was a trophy,

509
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: but as if her mother had done it and not waightfully. Yeah,

510
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: she spoke about doubt when she refused to give in

511
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: to her refusal to play, and then yeah, later we

512
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: see her doubts creep into relationship with Richard, who she

513
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: was desperately sinking at the very least her mother's acknowledgment.

514
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: And it's it's I liked that after because it was written.

515
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of it was infuriating, but it

516
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: was written like a chess game between her and her mother,

517
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: almost of like, oh, that's her play, I will do

518
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: this play to outsmart her. Just that kind of layer

519
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: of thinking where it was like at least it read

520
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: to me, where Weaver really was her own worst enemy,

521
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: and a lot of rolice once again. And then you

522
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: have Rose when Rose story is about finding her voice

523
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: when she is silent, I would say due to shock

524
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: when she watches her youngest brother fall into the waters,

525
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: uh and and not being able to recover, and I'm

526
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: her blaming herself, not being able to speak and just being.

527
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: And then in her relationship with her husband, ted, whether

528
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: it's an inability to talk to her husband or to

529
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: save our marriage, or to even talk with her mother

530
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: or talk with our friends or her there but she

531
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: talks about how she talks differently with each one, almost

532
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: as if she's trying to appease them, like given them

533
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: what they want to hear and whatever she wanted. And

534
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: of course the level of disappointment criticism is internal and

535
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: it seems to flow throughout her life, and an inability

536
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: to speak, which she finally does later and she wins

537
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: always like Hurrah, you did it. I did love seeing

538
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: the correlation between her and the garden, the weeds and everything,

539
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: and which talks about just loving the mass and the chaos.

540
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: And then that's when she comes out and like, yeah,

541
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: this is how I feel. I like it entually. I

542
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: really appreciated that too, as someone who does often find

543
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: myself doing similar things. I want to make the decision

544
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: that makes everyone else happy. It's not necessarily like I

545
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: what I want, and I don't think that's always bad

546
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: at all. But when she was making decisions and she

547
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: wasn't sure why, but she was finally making the decisions,

548
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's I appreciate this. And then

549
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: there's Lena. Lena, like her mother in her first marriage,

550
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: has become a ghost in her marriage and is frustrated

551
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,959
Speaker 1: with her life. She struggles and finding her place and

552
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: being able to work out what she wants for herself. Right,

553
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: So this is the one was what little diff and

554
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: as you don't see what happens with that marriage, her

555
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: husband is completely happy the way it is because he

556
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: pretty much dictates everything that happens as where she's just

557
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: like okay, and she's been fine with that up until recently,

558
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: but doesn't even know what she actually wants. So and

559
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: then we come to Jumae or June, whose life seems

560
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: to be a layer of what she sees as failures

561
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: from her inability to play piano, to not being able

562
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: to be the next Shirley Temple or to her dripping

563
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: out of college. She sees her failures as who she

564
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: has become, often considering herself to Waverley because her mother

565
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: does it too. She is also the one to sacrifice

566
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: for others as well, as we talked about when everybody

567
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: else picks for the very best for themselves, she's going

568
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: to be the one that sacrifices for other people to

569
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: get the best. And then it isn't until much later

570
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: she learned that her mother wasn't disappointed in her, but

571
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: proud of who she was um and that she was

572
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: proud of that she was such a kind and giving woman.

573
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: And it's really sweet, as we know this kind of

574
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: happens to in the book when she really feels like

575
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: since you wasn't able to be what her mom wanted

576
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: her to be, always feeling like she was a failure.

577
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: And then we know that on her thirtieth birthday, her

578
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: mom gives her with the piano that she refused to

579
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: play and does not do well, and it feels like

580
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: like for her it felt like closure and forgiveness. So

581
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: it's a really sweet sort story. And then she continues

582
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: her journey as she learns to discover her mother, and

583
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: as she learns more and more of her story that

584
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: she never knew, realizing the depth of her mother's love

585
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: and excited to share that. It was really beautiful. Yeah,

586
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: that was a very sweet scene where this embarrassing moment

587
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: for foraging May at the table when we really kind

588
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: of really knocks her down and big. And then afterwards

589
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: the conversation Jing May has with her mom where her

590
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: mom's like kind of saying, all these things you see

591
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: as failures, I see is these things that make you

592
00:31:53,640 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: you that yeah, kind and giving woman. And I don't know,

593
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: it was just so sweet to hear that. I think

594
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: for any anybody, it's sweet to hear that somebody sees

595
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: these things in you that maybe you've just been beating

596
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,719
Speaker 1: yourself up for reading, but they just accept you when

597
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: they love you for it. Very sweet, less sweet. There

598
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: are some of the marriages in this in this book,

599
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: there are not too many good examples of marriage, and

600
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: here I want to include this quote. In patriarchy, human

601
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: possessed the highest status, so that women's position is subordinate

602
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: to them, and that's from Lena, and yeah, there's a

603
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: lot about duty and not so much about love in

604
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: these marriages. And I would say also a lot of miscommunication. Yeah,

605
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on to complicate these marriages for sure, right,

606
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: and again not about love. It's definitely about duty and

607
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: indoor obligation. An Yeah, again, she doesn't really get into

608
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: the depths of the husbands as much except to show

609
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: their failures or their progress or any of that. It's

610
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: just kind of a springing springboard for them to perpetuate

611
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: the story, which I kind of like, I'm not gonna lie,

612
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: it's not you don't see too much of that. You

613
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: don't see it where it's like centered around the marriage

614
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: and the husband in general, and even for the mothers,

615
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: you barely hear what's happening, and it's a lot of

616
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: it is just out of obligation or survival rather than love.

617
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: And you don't hear much about love other than love

618
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: for their children and who they were and what they've

619
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: done for them. And so I find that interesting too. Again,

620
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: we see even the new relationships like Waverley and Rich,

621
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: they don't really talk about love. She's more embarrassed and

622
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: ready to show him off more so than anything else,

623
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 1: which is kind of interesting in itself, but yeah, I

624
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: think it's necessary, but not something they gloat about. And

625
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: I would I would put in here a reminder that,

626
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: for you know, the long time, historically marriages have been

627
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: usually things of convenience or economics, often at the benefit

628
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: of the man in the detriment of a woman in

629
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: a very head or normative sense. And we do see

630
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: that in enjoy Le Club, especially in the mothers. But

631
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: when it comes to the daughters. One of the things

632
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: I appreciated about that where the problems of the marriage

633
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: might have been key, but the marriage itself wasn't. But

634
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: we see through that you get to touch on issues

635
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: of like sexism, where yeah, your idea, your husband is

636
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: getting paid seven times more than you and yet everything

637
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: must be equal, and also just the fallout of misunderstanding

638
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: their mother. And I feel like I could be totally wrong,

639
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: but I feel like there's a lot of overcorrect ng

640
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 1: in this where the mothers just like I so badly

641
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: don't want this from my daughters, that they overcorrect, and

642
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: then the daughters are like I so badly don't want

643
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: to be like my mother's so they overcorrect like kind

644
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: of seeing that play out through through their marriages, right,

645
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: does seem like a push back and forth, which I

646
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: don't think is similarly to each other. Yeah, yeah, and

647
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty common. I don't think it's a

648
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: specific right, fairly like characters in this book. But and

649
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: something else we wanted to talk about is friendship, another

650
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: theme in here. Just I mean, the whole idea of

651
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: the joy Luck Club is about friendship, and um, they

652
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: you see that the importance of shared community spaces for

653
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: marginalized folks, and as always the power of women sharing

654
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,959
Speaker 1: experiences and supporting each other. The original joy Luk Club

655
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: that Jingmei's mom started in China, it was very dark,

656
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: painful time for a lot of people, and this was

657
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: like a time where they got to for it that

658
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: and have fun and be happy, and they would pretend

659
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: like they were having this big feast even though they

660
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: weren't right and just how powerful that wasn't as you

661
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: said in San Francisco, the new iterations of Joylet Club

662
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: did become kind of an investing opportunity and they paid

663
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: for the plane ticket they raised the money for At

664
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: the time, I believe it was for her mom's Sun

665
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: to go, but then they gave it to Um Jing Mei,

666
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: and I think that's right, wonderful. Yeah, And it's definitely

667
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,959
Speaker 1: through the friendships we see the connection of the old

668
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: world versus the new world for the lack of better terms,

669
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: and how they're trying to correct wrongs together, whether it's

670
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: they compete with each other about their daughter's success or

671
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: they talk about their pasts as if it was the

672
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: good time to guess. And you're right, yeah again, like

673
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: you said, they got the funds together so that Jing

674
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: Make could complete with San was doing to begin when

675
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: it was a part of their legacy to for her

676
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: to fulfill this, and I think it was really beautiful.

677
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: But I also love the fact that, yes, Jim May

678
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: was welcomed into that community and she took her mom's spot.

679
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: So it's a matriarch that's allowed this and continued this,

680
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: and I think it's beautiful because we don't see enough

681
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: of that in general. Yeah, it's amazing how rare it

682
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: is to see multigenerational representations of with me right, Yeah,

683
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: And I mean that does feel very poetic and that

684
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: you know, Jing May is stepping in. She was so

685
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: concerned she couldn't tell her mother's story. And I love

686
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: that description at some point in the book where it's

687
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: like mothers and daughters are like stairs, like they're always

688
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: going in the same direction, which I think was meant

689
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: to be a bad thing, but I thought that, you know,

690
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: as much as they might have been, this distance between

691
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: the daughters and their mothers at different points, and you know,

692
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: Waverley has that moment where she's like, do we really

693
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: look alike? And she's looking at her mother and herself

694
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 1: in the mirror, and but those are the those things

695
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: that will pass on to the next generation. We do

696
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: have a little bit more for you listeners, but first

697
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: we have one more quick break or word from our sponsor,

698
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. We did want to

699
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about immigration. The daughters don't seem

700
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: to see the level of courage their mothers go through

701
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: to get to the United States. But there is a

702
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: battle between the new identity and freedom with the old

703
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: traditions and past of the mothers that we see a

704
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: lot um. We see a lot of now as adult

705
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,959
Speaker 1: children try to retain heritage in their families and pass

706
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: it down to their children. We also see through the

707
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: mothers what it is like to try to adjust to

708
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: this new culture and how to survive. And within this,

709
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: of course, it's also the big push, that big conversation

710
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: of the American dream, which is an idea that the

711
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: daughters get pushed into by the mothers who hope for quote,

712
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: the gold mountain for them or something that makes them

713
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: rich and successful, which is why we see the whole

714
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: you need to be the next shorally Temple, or you

715
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: need to be the prodigy, and and pushing them to

716
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: be the better of whatever this is. And they're hoping

717
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: that the daughters can fulfill the level of success that

718
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: they dream of. And and because there's this whole big

719
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: idea that the US or America is where you can

720
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: become whatever you want to be, grow that that whole

721
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: idea is just you know, put your mind to it,

722
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: work hard, and you can have that which we know

723
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: is the falsehood. But for their mothers it wasn't um.

724
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: And of course again being able to come into the

725
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: US and thinking that they can get this was a

726
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: part of the hope that they put onto their children

727
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: and placed onto their children to the detriment of their

728
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: relationship to a certain point, right, yes, for sure. And

729
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: something else we wanted to talk about a little bit

730
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: is um these ideas around heritage and legend and tradition,

731
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: because those are throughout just so key and often really

732
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 1: beautifully written. I thought, right, I think there's this whole

733
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: level of of course, like the East versus West or

734
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: East and West cultural ideas, and we do see when

735
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: it comes to heritage, when it comes to legends, when

736
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: it comes to stories, of course, China is going to

737
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: have a longer history and depth that we don't have

738
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: in the US as a very young country as we

739
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: know this, and also like being really established several times over.

740
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: But they do talk a lot about balance and the

741
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: whole idea of keeping one corner watching this corner and

742
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: making sure things are in its place. Yinging talks about

743
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: that to the room uh in which Lena has put

744
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: her thinking that this is such the guest room is

745
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: off balance, the table is off balanced, and she saw

746
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: the future of it falling apart and not being able

747
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: to withstand, and that was really important to her. And

748
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 1: then you you have that whole idea of the corners

749
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: for my young and the fact that Jimmy's mom specifically

750
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: picked that side as the newness a type of thing,

751
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, of course that's her side. She

752
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: knew exactly what her mother would pick because of that

753
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: superstition and that idea. And I think, you know, as

754
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: well as the crabs, they talked about the like of

755
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: course food is all throughout and we know this and

756
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: this is part of tradition. I think any Chinese, I

757
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: feel like any tradition with when we talked about the matriarch,

758
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: we talked about food in general, but this when we

759
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: talk about crabs and talking about the new year, the

760
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: Chinese new year and the good luck and the bad

761
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: luck and who chooses what, and it was kind of

762
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: an omen and of course yeah, and it showed Jimmy's

763
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,959
Speaker 1: character as well as Waverley's character and who saw what,

764
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: and it was very obvious what that meant. Of course,

765
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: throughout all of the story we hear about the omens

766
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: and the luck like a deaf I love the whole

767
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: story with it was ho Lindo used that omen of

768
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, the birthmark as being like, oh, it's gonna

769
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: eat his face. The grands, you know, the grand ancestors

770
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: are going to come into you know, all of being displaced,

771
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: and she used that to her advantage because she knew

772
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: the superstitions that would help her. And you say, you

773
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: hear those stories, and I'm fascinated by these stories. I

774
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: don't know how real they are and how cultural irrelevant

775
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: they are, but we know that these exists, and the

776
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: idea of ghosts exists. The Tale of the Turtles was

777
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: one of my favorites too, and the omen in the

778
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: and the eating of the tears. Yeah, and then I

779
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: think you can see that in a lot of beliefs

780
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: and belief systems and religions and superstitions around the world.

781
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: But like, for instance, the whole thing about the rice

782
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: if you don't eat the rice, and the pocketing of

783
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: the boy's skin and then he died, and then blaming yourself,

784
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: Like that's something when I was young and we talked

785
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: about first Smith and I, I is really religious, and

786
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: I would get in my head that's something I had done,

787
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: had caused to this terrible outcome, and just feel extremely

788
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 1: guilty about it. So, yeah, that resonated with me too. Yeah,

789
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: and we know this is a depth of legend and

790
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: into these cultural ideas and and again it's not just

791
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: necessarily that it's cultural, but it's familiar. Is something that's

792
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: passed on from family to family and family, and it's

793
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: just like religion and ideas and stories and all of

794
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: these things. It exists as a part of their heritage

795
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: and what gets passed on. And I think that's beautiful.

796
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: I think I love that story because it did have

797
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: the fantastical superstitions behind the sadness as well. It was

798
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 1: definitely again one of those things because it was originally

799
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: intended as vignettes or short stories, and then put together

800
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: because she created this giant, beautiful book of different stories

801
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: that could be broken down into short story. It's a

802
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: little confusing, so you have to keep going back about

803
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: who's doing what, and who's talking to whom and whose

804
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: parents to whom It does flow beautifully together, I think, yeah, well,

805
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: and I love I love when any author is able

806
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: to accomplish something without like to tell so much with

807
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: so little, and so I felt like Amy Tan did

808
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: that fantastically, where just through these short vignettes and even

809
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: through like a sentence, she's communicating so much about me

810
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: to this character and what might be seemingly a small

811
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: detail or like an unimportant thing, but you're like, Okay,

812
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 1: I know something about this person just because of this,

813
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: which I think is really powerful writing. Right um, And

814
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: as we talked about earlier, amy Tan wrote this book

815
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: and part as a promise to listen to her mother's stories.

816
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: But unlike the characters, she didn't have children at the time,

817
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: and as in fact several reasons why she didn't want

818
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: to have children and she hasn't. She did and have children,

819
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: and again not really based on her life, even the

820
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: portions again do play into this. She did write a

821
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: memoir in twenty seventeen titled Where the Past Begins a

822
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: Writer's Memoir, so there is one out there if you

823
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: want to know more about her life. But I do

824
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,439
Speaker 1: love her telling of the story of how her mother

825
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: was so proud of her writing this book and would

826
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: just hand out these books about you. She wrote this

827
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: book and then hands it out, And I love that

828
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: at such an amazing moment to see how proud she was,

829
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: because from what we gather from what amy Tan's own

830
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: re iteration of her relationship with her mother, it was rocky,

831
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: much like some of the relationships in this book. But

832
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: to see her mom just being so proud of her

833
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: was probably one of the biggest accomplishments, I guess, for

834
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: the lack of better terms, uh, something that she's also

835
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: been proud of, so I can imagine and I love that.

836
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: I love that as part of her story as well.

837
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: But before we end, yeah, I didn't want to talk

838
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: a little bit about again, as I said at the

839
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: beginning of this episode, how it was so impactful for

840
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: me to see a mainly all Asian cast, which was

841
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: so rare for an American movie that it was phenomenal

842
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: to me to see these women, beautiful women being a

843
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,919
Speaker 1: big story that people were latching onto. Even though yeah,

844
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: the population, we know there's a lot of Asian American

845
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: people here. We know the story is not strange because

846
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: we know that this community exists and it's has been

847
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: around for a very long time, but it's taken so long,

848
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: and honestly, I think even with as popular as it

849
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: was when Crazy Rich Asian came out, it kind of

850
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: revamped that, oh my gosh, it's an all Asian cast,

851
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: because again, we still don't have that outside of international movies,

852
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: and it's really of setting to see when you know

853
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: that there's a large population of the A p I

854
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: community out there whose stories should be told, you know,

855
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 1: And I think it was something that's phenomenal to me. Manari.

856
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that it has gotten the attention it has.

857
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: But it also again the kind of was named a

858
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: an international movie, and it's like, but it's a family

859
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 1: that moves to the Midwest, what like parasite understandable, there's

860
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: a Korean movie, okay, Manori. No, it's literally about Korean

861
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: family that immigrates to the US and their adjustment to

862
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: the U s which I haven't seen. I'm going to

863
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: see and I'm excited to see, and I'm glad it's

864
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,959
Speaker 1: getting all of the accolais that is. But the fact

865
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: that it's still very rare and it is outlined like that,

866
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: it says a lot for what it is. Yeah, And

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00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: I know in interviews, Amy Tan has talked about her

868
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: kind of frustration around and how her her viewpoints has

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00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: kind of changed in his nuance. But the idea that

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00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: a lot of times this book was classified as multicultural

871
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: or something, and we've talked about that too with um.

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00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: Some women have shaped it like the women's literature kind

873
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: of title, and then that very often will make you

874
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 1: a niche where you don't you aren't a niche and

875
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: you don't need to be, and that decreases your audience.

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00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: Yeah claims you probably not as prominently displayed or whatever

877
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: it is. But yeah, yeah, I really really enjoyed this

878
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: book and I am glad that we read it. There

879
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: are so many themes we didn't touch on that we could.

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00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: So there's a lot too, a lot too. There's a

881
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: lot in this book. Yes, oh yes there is. But

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00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 1: that is it's for now. Please keep your suggestions coming.

883
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: What should we read for our next book club? You

884
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: can email us at step dm Stuff at I heart

885
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: media dot com. You can find us on Twitter at

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00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram as Stuff I've Never

887
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: told you, I thinks It's always to our super producer, Christina.

888
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,320
Speaker 1: Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening Stuff

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00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:11,919
Speaker 1: I Never told you his protection of I Heart Radio.

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00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, it's the heart

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00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,800
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