Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carole Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg quick takes, Tim Stanobek. We're here every day bringing
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Speaker 1: Search Bloomberg Global News. This is a special edition Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Radio and we are live on Bloomberg radio as well
Speaker 1: as on Youtube. But we are here at the Plaza
Speaker 1: New York City. A lot going on because of the
Speaker 1: UN General Assembly and a big part of it is
Speaker 1: an event here today hosted by Bloomberg Philanthropies, along with
Speaker 1: the Earth Shot Prize, and this is all about solutions,
Speaker 1: really focusing on our environment, our climate and just many
Speaker 1: people involved in it, from government officials to business professionals, entrepreneurs, investors,
Speaker 1: you name. Yeah, we got philanthropist, business executives, grassroots climate
Speaker 1: activists from all over the world. What they're doing is
Speaker 1: spotlighting emerging systems, changing solutions and showcasing the critical need
Speaker 1: to turbocharge groundbreaking climate innovations to address the world's most
Speaker 1: pressing environmental challenges. And I'm hearing a lot about timelines
Speaker 1: and deadlines and many people saying we don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of years left before that. This is really you
Speaker 1: can't reverse the impact that climate change has had on
Speaker 1: our environment. Well, earlier I got to catch up with
Speaker 1: the CEO of the Earth Shot Prize, she is Hannah Jones,
Speaker 1: to talk about the work that they are doing. They
Speaker 1: nominate finalists, they nominate winners and they really help them
Speaker 1: scale up their solutions. Behind the earth shop dries is
Speaker 1: none other than Prince William of the UK. This is
Speaker 1: because in the week, the energy, by the way, in
Speaker 1: this place is off the charts, which is exactly what
Speaker 1: we need this week. We need udge, an optimism and
Speaker 1: we need people feeling totally energized by the possibility. And
Speaker 1: that really takes me back to our founder, Prince William.
Speaker 1: Um He UN did the earth shot prize after having
Speaker 1: two insights. He was in a conservation project that was
Speaker 1: really successful in Namibia, but he felt terribly frustrated that
Speaker 1: this successful solution wasn't going to scale and it wasn't
Speaker 1: going to be replicated around the world. And yet it
Speaker 1: was helping poacher has become conservationists. It was changing the
Speaker 1: entire landscape. So why wasn't anyone scaling it? The second
Speaker 1: insight was that the dialogue at the time, back in
Speaker 1: twenty nine, was so full of fear and anger that
Speaker 1: he was worried that we wouldn't get to action and
Speaker 1: change if we didn't inject optimism into the conversation. So
Speaker 1: we married those two insights and he created the Earth
Speaker 1: Shot Prize. And the Earth Shot Prize is meant to
Speaker 1: be a beacon for urgent optimism and putting the spotlight
Speaker 1: on solutions that, if scaled, could repair and regenerate the planet.
Speaker 1: And you've got five different categories. Checked me a little
Speaker 1: bit about we do so. We did a lot of
Speaker 1: research into how we should do this and we've set
Speaker 1: up five earth shot challenges. One is oceans, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, I'm so in love with the innovation happening
Speaker 1: in oceans. One is in biodiversity, one is around waist
Speaker 1: clean air and climate change, and if you think about it,
Speaker 1: all of those things are the things that we need
Speaker 1: to see repaired and restored and regenerated for the Earth
Speaker 1: to be livable, equitable sustainable. So we award one million
Speaker 1: pounds each to a winner in each of the categories
Speaker 1: each year. But Prince William is very clear with us
Speaker 1: the team. We're going to have fifteen finalists as a
Speaker 1: whole and they are our family and we are here
Speaker 1: to support them all, irrespective of who ultimately wins the
Speaker 1: big money, and we see the money as catalytic. So
Speaker 1: we have this incredible partnership and collective of partners, of
Speaker 1: which Bloomberg Philanthropy's is obviously a key one. And so
Speaker 1: when we bring the finalists out into the spotlight, we're
Speaker 1: also looking at how we can give them access to talent,
Speaker 1: access to advice, access to networks of power and ultimately
Speaker 1: to blended capital, because we want them to go from
Speaker 1: being a great working prototype but if they were scaled,
Speaker 1: could make a huge impact. Let's do that fast, everybody.
Speaker 1: And you know what was interesting too, as you guys
Speaker 1: reach out around the globe right people were nominated a
Speaker 1: lot that you had to go through. What was it
Speaker 1: that made somebody stand out that you said I want
Speaker 1: these people to be a finalist and an ultimately a winner.
Speaker 1: It's a great question and it's the hardest part of
Speaker 1: our job. We have a price council that are made
Speaker 1: up of some incredible people. Christianity forget is we have
Speaker 1: Hindu Ibrahim, we have Sir David Attenborough, the prince, the
Speaker 1: list goes on, Queen Bran and they have to actually
Speaker 1: get to a place where they have to make the
Speaker 1: final five. Let me tell you, this is a terrible conversation.
Speaker 1: But before there we have a very rigorous process. So
Speaker 1: we have official nominators that bring in nominations every year
Speaker 1: and from that we're looking for, first of all, are
Speaker 1: these diverse? They represent really all of the countries in
Speaker 1: the world? Do they bring women to the four? Do
Speaker 1: they bring indigenous communities to the four? How do we
Speaker 1: make sure that we have representation? Secondly, I think do
Speaker 1: they have the potential to make an impact? So right
Speaker 1: now they're working prototype, but how are they going to
Speaker 1: impact if they went to scale, carbon or biodiversity or
Speaker 1: sustainable livelihood creation? How will they make an impact and
Speaker 1: do we see a pathway to help in them and
Speaker 1: if so, they get to the next stage, which is
Speaker 1: how can they inspire the world? And really that's a
Speaker 1: very complicated process. We have technical experts we really bring in.
Speaker 1: We have an ex external group that helps us, Deloitte,
Speaker 1: so that we make sure it's fair, objective and consistent.
Speaker 1: When we wanted to ask you is I do feel
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of momentum, certainly the investment world
Speaker 1: when it comes to the E S G space. Right
Speaker 1: a lot of money going into Sustainability Environment Um. What
Speaker 1: is it that set to you guys, apart with what
Speaker 1: you're doing at our earth shot? Well, you know, there's
Speaker 1: not a day and I don't meet with a philanthropist
Speaker 1: or a VC, with an e s g fund or
Speaker 1: an impact investor and after an initial conversation, they look
Speaker 1: at me and say, can I tell you a secret?
Speaker 1: Could you beat my deal pipeline? I don't have enough
Speaker 1: things that I know what to invest in. Interesting now
Speaker 1: we are sitting on this incredible we've got already over
Speaker 1: two thousand nominations just in eighteen months and we're vetting,
Speaker 1: you know, to get through a different stage. We're looking
Speaker 1: at them and we're saying, but how can we match make?
Speaker 1: How can we match make our ECO innovators with blended capital?
Speaker 1: Talking to some of your finalists, they say there's a
Speaker 1: lot of things having a seat at the table, but capital.
Speaker 1: It's crucial for scale, with scalability. Imagine that you are
Speaker 1: any one of these finalists or innovators. You're not walking
Speaker 1: down Sands Hill road and bumping into a VC every day, right.
Speaker 1: You're living in Nigeria thinking of how you do a
Speaker 1: low cost solar leasing program to help people in the
Speaker 1: local slums to have access to green electricity. But you
Speaker 1: need funding, but you have no access to those networks
Speaker 1: of privilege. Prince William was very clear. I want to
Speaker 1: use my privilege and my platform to convene and make
Speaker 1: that funding conversation happening faster. But having worked so much
Speaker 1: with entrepreneurs, what I'll also tell you this. When you
Speaker 1: go on that journey from being a prototype to being scale,
Speaker 1: you don't just need money, right. You need advice, you
Speaker 1: need support, you need compassion and kindness, you need leadership training,
Speaker 1: storytelling training. So that's something that we're also really supporting
Speaker 1: and our Global Alliance of partners. They're not just putting
Speaker 1: capital in they're putting staff in, they're putting expertise in
Speaker 1: their opening up their supply chains, you know. And what's
Speaker 1: interesting is, you know, when we think about the world
Speaker 1: capitals and entrepreneurs there are doing some really cool things,
Speaker 1: but we're talking literally about saving the world, saving the planet,
Speaker 1: Earth Shot. We talk about moon shots right like doing
Speaker 1: the unthinkable. This is about existence for everyone, and that's
Speaker 1: where you talk about oceans and earth and energy. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is what we're talking about. It is you know,
Speaker 1: one of the things to think about is this is
Speaker 1: the sixtieth anniversary of the Moon Shot and Prince William
Speaker 1: was really influenced by President Kennedy's Moon shot challenged to
Speaker 1: the American people because it did two things. He didn't
Speaker 1: just challenge them to land a man on the moon
Speaker 1: and bring them home safely when we knew none of
Speaker 1: the answers to how to do that. What actually happened
Speaker 1: was it unleashed a wave of innovation that shaped economic
Speaker 1: and social progress and maybe more importantly, he unleashed a
Speaker 1: new mindset in the American people, which was we can
Speaker 1: turn the seemingly impossible possible. We have to make this
Speaker 1: fear shot decade and we have to unleash that mindset again.
Speaker 1: We have innovation all over the world happening. We've got
Speaker 1: to believe we can do this and change the trajectory
Speaker 1: of the planet and it will take all of us.
Speaker 1: That's handed Jones. Of course they see, you know, the
Speaker 1: Earth Shot Prize. I caught up with her earlier here
Speaker 1: at the Earth Shot Prize innovations summits. So really interesting
Speaker 1: in terms of what their work is doing. This is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes
Speaker 1: Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg radio. We actually have somebody here
Speaker 1: WHO's part of the establishment and they all up and
Speaker 1: disrupted quite a bit. Very pleased right now to have
Speaker 1: with us Dr Andrew Forest. He's Executive Chairman of Fortescue
Speaker 1: metals group. He's on site with us at the Earth
Speaker 1: Shot Prize Innovation Summit here at the Plaza Hotel in
Speaker 1: New York City. Great to have you with us. How
Speaker 1: are you? I'm a great chet thing on farm, so
Speaker 1: happy to have made this announcement time about the millions
Speaker 1: of manous to get it done. Well, let's talk about
Speaker 1: this announcements because it's a big one. Over the next decade.
Speaker 1: You're looking to spend six point two billion dollars to
Speaker 1: curb iron or emissions at your mind. So you're moving
Speaker 1: away from diesel. And we're not talking carbon offsets here.
Speaker 1: We're talking about completely eliminating fossil fuels and going with
Speaker 1: renewable sources instead, so there's no impact on the environment exactly.
Speaker 1: So we're not moving away or curbing stopping all fossil
Speaker 1: fuel use. I've been up to my site. So I've
Speaker 1: said to my major operators of these huge industrial sites. Says, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm coming up in and I'm going to switch off
Speaker 1: the diesel, I'm gonna switch off the oil and gas
Speaker 1: lever and if you guys do not have plans where
Speaker 1: I can keep them off, I'm probably going to shake
Speaker 1: you down. And they've come up with these most brilliant,
Speaker 1: practical plans, because they're now part of the problem and
Speaker 1: they'refore part of the solution. And for six point two
Speaker 1: billion we can step beyond fossil fuel and return almost
Speaker 1: to billion dollars a year to shareholders. It's got to
Speaker 1: be a good investment, all right. So help me out
Speaker 1: in and wine now, because we have the technology now.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm an investor in break through energy. I'm
Speaker 1: invested in this and that. But why wait? I mean,
Speaker 1: everyone's sticking around waiting. The planet, I promise you, is cooking.
Speaker 1: I'm a ecologist. What's happening in the oceans is way
Speaker 1: worse than what's happening on land. But it's blowing up
Speaker 1: on a soil on land. You know, the youth across
Speaker 1: the world can see it. Carbon credits, fuel, everything's getting
Speaker 1: way more expensive. Yet renewable energy is free, okay, and
Speaker 1: it's infinite. Why wait? It's it's not always free and infinite, though.
Speaker 1: It's not infinite in the sense of okay, well, if
Speaker 1: you're using solar there's snay time, if using wind there
Speaker 1: are days that are not windy, and if you're using
Speaker 1: hydro power there are sometimes that water levels. So how
Speaker 1: are your accounting from? You've heard of fossil fuel, right.
Speaker 1: They spend so much time pumping their gas down into
Speaker 1: these salt domes so they can draw it out later.
Speaker 1: We're not a lot different. I mean we don't have
Speaker 1: to throw it down for months. We'll have batteries. We
Speaker 1: have pumped hydro, you know, water up to the top
Speaker 1: of the hill in the day and write it down
Speaker 1: at night. We have gravitational energy which runs these trades ours.
Speaker 1: We got the biggest heaviest trains on earth, right five
Speaker 1: kilometer trains. They take forty tons of vinyl on their
Speaker 1: backs down to sea level. It's more than enough parabolical
Speaker 1: gravity energy than you'll ever need to send that train
Speaker 1: back up the hill. So there's a huge train system
Speaker 1: currently pumping through millions and millions of leaders of diesel,
Speaker 1: breaking itself going down the hill. So stop that, use
Speaker 1: that energy, send the train back up. There you've traded
Speaker 1: an infinity train, no external source of power, no emissions.
Speaker 1: We're doing that for trucks. We're doing that for a
Speaker 1: fixed plant, different technologies, but technologies which exist today. And
Speaker 1: you how much of it is also, though, in terms
Speaker 1: of the timing. What's going on in terms of the
Speaker 1: macro environment. Obviously we're all talking a lot more about
Speaker 1: energy and the energy crisis that we're seeing over in Europe,
Speaker 1: specifically because of the Russian invasion the Ukraine. Everybody all
Speaker 1: of a sudden is putting their foot on the gas
Speaker 1: pedal when it comes to alternative energy. It's been there
Speaker 1: and yet the ramp up has taken longer. You talk
Speaker 1: about the technology being there, but how much of the
Speaker 1: macro forces are also up? I'm seeing a ramp up
Speaker 1: the talk. I'm saying hang a ramp up a panic,
Speaker 1: and there should be, because we've never had a drying
Speaker 1: event this year around the world, not in the last
Speaker 1: hundred years, in history, record temperatures in history. So there's
Speaker 1: a sense of panic now. But we are reacting to
Speaker 1: what is great for our shareholders. Six point two billion
Speaker 1: in one off, nearly a billion out, twenty million out
Speaker 1: every single year forever. And it does not take into
Speaker 1: account the three billion we earned on the way through.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna build this thing up in the next
Speaker 1: several years, not in ten years, next several years. On
Speaker 1: the way through we start saving money. We saved eighty
Speaker 1: million last year on the way through. We will save
Speaker 1: a further three billion dollars. You take that three billion
Speaker 1: off the six point two. You don't have quit ray
Speaker 1: to return anymore. You have six rate of return. That
Speaker 1: out of beats Warren Buffett's miracle of nine percent. Right,
Speaker 1: and we're green. So it's a business decision. Or it's
Speaker 1: business and you're also just looking at the environment I
Speaker 1: am an ecologist, I am a scientist. Yes, I'm a
Speaker 1: business person, but my shareholders will not tolerate flansby for
Speaker 1: a business. You do Flans from your dividends, Andrews, but
Speaker 1: our business must make money. This is a fabulous business decision.
Speaker 1: So do the other miners, the real tenders of the world,
Speaker 1: and more do they follow your lead? Look, they're good guys.
Speaker 1: I've been in touch with the chief executives all the
Speaker 1: big miners. What have they told you? And I've said,
Speaker 1: how you do? Please tell us. Would you share said?
Speaker 1: Of course, we'll have full present full how to presentations.
Speaker 1: You get your senior leadership, I'll get my senior leadership.
Speaker 1: Will break down dollar by dollar, peace based piece time,
Speaker 1: in the full by time and of all, how we
Speaker 1: are doing, not will do it. Are doing well, and
Speaker 1: I do wonder too. You know, as you do this Um,
Speaker 1: are there any obstacles that will come into play at
Speaker 1: this point where you've already worked it all out? Because
Speaker 1: they do think about as people transition, it's not always
Speaker 1: so fluid and smooth because there is such an establishment
Speaker 1: out there and pushed back. Look, I think because it
Speaker 1: has not been done before, there's no other company in
Speaker 1: the heavy manufacturing, heavy industry world that has done it.
Speaker 1: So I need the disbelief to go away. I mean
Speaker 1: we started as a timely little company and we challenged
Speaker 1: the biggest industry in the resources world, which is iron know,
Speaker 1: it's like a closed shot, totally protected. Now we've busted
Speaker 1: it open where one of the biggest players in the
Speaker 1: world turned a million tons a year. That's not chopped
Speaker 1: liver right now spread around the world. Now we're taking
Speaker 1: that huge manufacturing center and stopping it using any fossil
Speaker 1: fuel and people are saying, yeah, if you can do it,
Speaker 1: wise in everyone. Well, that's the question. Don't question that.
Speaker 1: We can do it. Question why isn't everyone else? Well,
Speaker 1: not everyone else. The background, as in the college. That's
Speaker 1: part of it perhaps. But I also wonder if you
Speaker 1: can take us more into your thinking behind this, because
Speaker 1: you and I spoke years ago and you were on
Speaker 1: the forefront of thinking about the environmental concerns when it
Speaker 1: comes to mining. But but something that I've been thinking
Speaker 1: about is, and I mean this with all due respect,
Speaker 1: if there's any sort of like a tournament that you're
Speaker 1: thinking about here, because, with all due respect, mining is
Speaker 1: is something that is not inherently different. Okay. Well, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: if we were to stopped mining, we wouldn't be sitting here,
Speaker 1: this building wouldn't exist. You know, everything would stop. So
Speaker 1: we have to do mining. Mining is not the problem.
Speaker 1: How we mind that's the problem. We have to mind brain.
Speaker 1: We have to mind zero missions. The mining industry can
Speaker 1: step beyond fossil fuel. Now I have a sense of
Speaker 1: a tonement to my kids and to everybody because I'm
Speaker 1: part of the fossil fuel era, but I don't put
Speaker 1: coal in my mind. All My product has zero carbon
Speaker 1: in it. There's nothing in it. So fucking persuade my
Speaker 1: customers to put hydrogen, not col in it, then I'm
Speaker 1: super happy. But I haven't exported carbon, Maka, that's not
Speaker 1: my business. I've exported iron and then carbon goes into
Speaker 1: the iron. I want to stop that. I want to
Speaker 1: saying to all my customers we're gonna give you green
Speaker 1: iron first time in your light. You've got green iron ore,
Speaker 1: replace the coal with hydrogen and you've got green steel. Um,
Speaker 1: just real quickly, because we have you here in re Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: what does the macro environment on this dead day? What
Speaker 1: does the macro environment look like to you right now.
Speaker 1: We have to step carefully. You've got interest rate fluctuations,
Speaker 1: you've got a lunatic invading another country totally unfairly. So
Speaker 1: we have to step carefully. How we step carefully is
Speaker 1: by bringing out operating costs down to go from the
Speaker 1: last cost iron or production in the world and even
Speaker 1: lower cost iron or production in the world. So our
Speaker 1: margins are maximist and we're learning. No fosterculs, so we're
Speaker 1: not exposed to torrents, we're not exposed to foster fuel
Speaker 1: ups and downs, and he's spling some roundabouts. We are
Speaker 1: taking our energy from the sun and the wind. Dr
Speaker 1: Andrew Forest, Executive Chairman Fortescue metals group. He's with us
Speaker 1: on site of the Earth Shot Prize Innovation Summit at
Speaker 1: the Plaza Hotel here in New York City. Dr Forest,
Speaker 1: great to see you again. Thanks. Thank you. You're listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick
Speaker 1: Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg radio. All right, we want
Speaker 1: to take you back to the plaza. This is where
Speaker 1: we are the Earth Shot Prize of innovation summit and
Speaker 1: luckily for us, Kath mchanna stop by chair the UN
Speaker 1: High Level Expert Group. She's former minister of environment climate
Speaker 1: change of Canada, so on site with her, on site
Speaker 1: with us here, it's hard to kind of hear yourself think.
Speaker 1: What's really wonderful, and I think even in our last conversation,
Speaker 1: just the conversation that we are having, and it does
Speaker 1: feel like we just talked with uh, you know, all right,
Speaker 1: court execute and just the investment that they're making and
Speaker 1: really thinking about Greena emity, not even just thinking you'd
Speaker 1: be taking actions. How do you feel about like where
Speaker 1: the conversation is going and how people are looking at
Speaker 1: climate change and really the impact and what we need
Speaker 1: to do now? Well, I mean I think first of
Speaker 1: all we're seeing climate change having an impact like that.
Speaker 1: You go to Puerto Rico and basically no one had
Speaker 1: any power under water, but that's happening everywhere in Canada.
Speaker 1: We go to down a lit literally inciderated Um. So
Speaker 1: that's the bad side. The good side is this is
Speaker 1: really the largest economic opportunity not just in a decade
Speaker 1: but in in our lifetime. And then and now we
Speaker 1: need to translate the ambition that I think we've seen
Speaker 1: a lot of companies, financial institutions, cities and regions saying
Speaker 1: they want to be nat zero Um. Obviously we have
Speaker 1: the nation's part of the Paris Agreement, but we need
Speaker 1: to actually see the action, and so that's what I'm
Speaker 1: working at as part of the secretary general who made
Speaker 1: this high level grip. It's got to very long acrotim
Speaker 1: like the US has been, but basically it hasn't had
Speaker 1: a long time right. No, super short. So actually that's
Speaker 1: quite good because I'm into like, let's get things done.
Speaker 1: We do not have time and often we have a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of chatting, and I'm a person
Speaker 1: of action. In Canada we did a lot Um. We
Speaker 1: put a price on pollution, which would be had carbon pricing.
Speaker 1: I would be able to do a lot more, but
Speaker 1: the group is actually looking like what do you need
Speaker 1: to do? What do you need to show to show progress? Like,
Speaker 1: don't just talk about fifty we don't have time. I
Speaker 1: was just with Mike Bloomberg. He's like, look, I don't
Speaker 1: know whether we have you know, we're even talking far
Speaker 1: too wrong, like we've got to talk about what we're
Speaker 1: doing now, what we're doing next year. And so it's
Speaker 1: really about getting corporate's financial institution, cities and regions to say, okay,
Speaker 1: this is our plan, is that we're gonna transition, going
Speaker 1: to identify the laggards, but also really positive, identifying folks
Speaker 1: that are doing things right. At the same time, though,
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of people might have the
Speaker 1: sense that we're much further behind than we thought we were,
Speaker 1: and I say that because of what's happening in Europe
Speaker 1: right now, with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It came into
Speaker 1: stark relief this year just how reliant the entire world
Speaker 1: is on fossil fuels. How far behind are we? Because
Speaker 1: if you were asking me a year ago, I would
Speaker 1: have painted a picture that we were so much further
Speaker 1: ahead when it comes to a transition then we actually are. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm someone who also thinks we need to
Speaker 1: call things out, and the reality is, I mean, you
Speaker 1: can take things as a risk or an opportunity, and
Speaker 1: I worry that you know we're gonna say, well, look
Speaker 1: at what happened, we've got an illegal war um I
Speaker 1: started by Russia, and so now all bets are off
Speaker 1: on climate action. In fact, what we need to do
Speaker 1: is recognize that by you know perfession the status, but
Speaker 1: the sounds close like energy security is actually a massive
Speaker 1: risk to our economy and climate change is having impacts now.
Speaker 1: So I think you've seen some good moves by Germany,
Speaker 1: but there has been opportunism by fossil fuel companies in
Speaker 1: many cases. And Look, I just think we need to
Speaker 1: just get on with things and racking Ze. Yes, energy
Speaker 1: poverty is a huge thing, so we have to be smart.
Speaker 1: In Canada we did a price on pollution. Give the
Speaker 1: money back, so people that had less money actually we're
Speaker 1: better off, and so I think you have to be
Speaker 1: support about how you do that. But we need to
Speaker 1: make the quantum of investment now. We need to scale
Speaker 1: everything and we need to do this fast, and so
Speaker 1: everything I do is about like how do we find solutions?
Speaker 1: How do we not just identify problems and just debt
Speaker 1: on with it? I agree with you right, like there's
Speaker 1: a lot of talk that goes on. What do we
Speaker 1: need to actually do? So what is the role of
Speaker 1: government and private sector in all of this? Because I
Speaker 1: do feel like investment money will go where they can
Speaker 1: make money, right, but and I also do feel like
Speaker 1: government policy can shape us to do the right thing,
Speaker 1: whether it's by an electric vehicle, put solar on our
Speaker 1: roots or what have you. So what are those two components?
Speaker 1: What do they need to be doing right now? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean government and and uh, corporate seeds to work
Speaker 1: together right. You can't just have government policy up here
Speaker 1: and then you aren't having a response. And sometimes actually
Speaker 1: the real economy. You can have a real impact on government.
Speaker 1: If you support, you know, climate action, that could be
Speaker 1: really positive. You will be against it. That is very bad.
Speaker 1: So I think there could be this virtual cycle that
Speaker 1: everyone needs to scale up investment and we need to
Speaker 1: deal with problems. So the amount of money we need
Speaker 1: is in the trillions, three trillion dollars. So I see
Speaker 1: that as an opportunity. But to do that we need
Speaker 1: lended finances. We need that, we need there to be
Speaker 1: some risk taken so that you then get the you know,
Speaker 1: the money flowing from the private sector, and then we
Speaker 1: can do this. I'm like a super realistic optimist, but
Speaker 1: I think this is a huge opportunity. But people need
Speaker 1: to see it in that spirit and they have to.
Speaker 1: We have to fight the status quo all the time.
Speaker 1: So how do you get the entire world on board?
Speaker 1: With this because it's it's one thing for European countries
Speaker 1: to all be on the same page, and maybe Canada
Speaker 1: and some cases the US, but what about China? What
Speaker 1: about India? What about other developing economies? Well, sir, look,
Speaker 1: everyone needs to be on board and uh, but it's
Speaker 1: not going to be in here. And that's the thing. Like,
Speaker 1: if everyone wants perfection, I'm sorry, that's not gonna work.
Speaker 1: On climate, I've seen it, and you're always gonna have
Speaker 1: changes in government. You're gonna have some corporates that are
Speaker 1: gonna be doing good things and some are gonna be greenwashing,
Speaker 1: although the fact that they feel like folks, feel the
Speaker 1: need to say that they're ambitious on climate is a
Speaker 1: positive signal. But I think, like look in the in
Speaker 1: what I'm working on, which is, you know, financial institutions, corporates.
Speaker 1: How do we hold them accountable? Ultimately we need government regulation. Right,
Speaker 1: there's a limit of voluntary initiatives and there's a competitiveness issue, right,
Speaker 1: like we don't want to make it so you're like
Speaker 1: the good guy coming out there working hard and it's hard.
Speaker 1: Like we need to reduce some missions, steal money. Um,
Speaker 1: sounds easy, but obviously you know to do that that's challenging,
Speaker 1: but you need to bring everyone in. So I think
Speaker 1: that that that's obviously needs to be leadership at the
Speaker 1: national level. Having said that, in countries like China and India,
Speaker 1: you can see how they are scaling in so many
Speaker 1: different ways and they're playing a part in the ecosystem,
Speaker 1: like whether it's electric vehicles or solar. You're getting examples.
Speaker 1: But if anyone wants us to be orderly, and I
Speaker 1: often hear this, look I was in the private sector before.
Speaker 1: Everyone wants to be an orderly transition. I'm sorry, it's
Speaker 1: just orderly right this year. Well, what's interesting too, and
Speaker 1: I think about in the investment space, which we talk
Speaker 1: so much about, it, E. S G in, particularly the
Speaker 1: amount of money that was blowing in, and I think
Speaker 1: we thought that was going to help facilitate that transition
Speaker 1: to alternative energy in a much more aggressive way. It's
Speaker 1: going through a reckoning. So do we need that transparency
Speaker 1: or labeling so that we really understand initiatives, what they
Speaker 1: are doing, their impact on the environment, so that people
Speaker 1: who want to invest in these that really are good
Speaker 1: for the environment, like? Is that a big deterrent to
Speaker 1: kind of getting us to a better place. Well, I
Speaker 1: just feel good radical transparency. It's better to have more
Speaker 1: Java than not emparency, like Tolberg. That's like a basic principle,
Speaker 1: because people need to understand what's going on and then
Speaker 1: you can make decisions. Let's the whole point of the market.
Speaker 1: But we do need to better understand risk, like the reality,
Speaker 1: the risk that people are if you're, if you're a company,
Speaker 1: you're financials used, doubling down on class and fuels, like,
Speaker 1: look at where the world is going. We need to
Speaker 1: move Um. So and, as I say, like look, you
Speaker 1: need to be able to follow greenwashing, which requires data
Speaker 1: and saying like they're gonna be super ambitious and saying much,
Speaker 1: you know you mean not zero, and you're going the
Speaker 1: wrong direction. Well, I think people need to know that, um.
Speaker 1: But on the flip side, I also think you need
Speaker 1: to recognize the good players, and that's why getting data
Speaker 1: out and distinguishing between the people are just saying I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be amazing, I'm doing nothing or going the wrong
Speaker 1: way and, to be Allurgin, I'm gonna be amazing and
Speaker 1: I'm doing the hard work. Is Key. What I want
Speaker 1: to ask you is there Earth Shot Prize? Right this
Speaker 1: is innovator's despectors here are there are lots of conversations
Speaker 1: as you come to an event like this. What is
Speaker 1: it that's jumping out for you right now, when we
Speaker 1: think about what's going on in the in the environment,
Speaker 1: the climate and changes to it? It's funny because I,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you can get down like I'm like
Speaker 1: a realistic optist, sometimes an optimistic realist, but ultimately I'm
Speaker 1: actually a competitive source. I'm kind down to the wall
Speaker 1: and you're used to just staring at the same thing.
Speaker 1: It's actually real, but you can you get disciplined and
Speaker 1: yet you know, you know that you gotta do the work.
Speaker 1: So sometimes you can be, you know, disappointed or feel
Speaker 1: like this government sucks or like whatever. But then I
Speaker 1: meet these innovators and I was like, this is that,
Speaker 1: this is the goal, like the zone where we need
Speaker 1: to be. We need to be rewarding people that have
Speaker 1: scalable solutions and we need to find its okay before
Speaker 1: we let you go. Because how did you describe yourself?
Speaker 1: A realistic optimist, sometimes I'm an optimist secure list. You know,
Speaker 1: we understand what the state actors can do, what non
Speaker 1: state actors can do and what ear shot prize winners
Speaker 1: can do. But what about Gosh, there's everyday Americans or
Speaker 1: everyday Canadians. What can we do? Because I think oftentimes
Speaker 1: it feels like, okay, I'm not using plastic bags and
Speaker 1: I'm separating my recycling, uh, and I'm taking the subway
Speaker 1: instead of driving, but doesn't matter at all. But actually
Speaker 1: it's weird because all those things matter. And I used
Speaker 1: to hear this like, you know, I'd see a kid
Speaker 1: and they'd be, you know, using, uh, they'be using a
Speaker 1: metal straw, and then people tweet at me. Oh my God,
Speaker 1: that's so useless. Myself, you know what that kid is saying.
Speaker 1: I actually believe in the environment. I believe in climate change.
Speaker 1: You know, all those solutions are really important and like
Speaker 1: the pups, there are all these like kind of boring
Speaker 1: things that are actually really critical. The costs of a
Speaker 1: lot of these innovations is coming down. But the other
Speaker 1: thing you can do is you can vote and you
Speaker 1: can go look for folks that actually share your beliefs.
Speaker 1: If you care about climate go seeing what people are
Speaker 1: saying about climate Um. Are they committed to it? Are
Speaker 1: they actually demonstrating to that with actually, and I saw that. Look,
Speaker 1: I'm recovering politician and I I'm recovering lay or two,
Speaker 1: like I'm recovering from a lot of things. I'm still
Speaker 1: a mom, so I haven't recovered from teenagers. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: but I think that it's Um. You know, I saw
Speaker 1: this in politics, like it really helps if you have
Speaker 1: regular people who are saying, yeah, you know what, I
Speaker 1: support you, I'm gonna go up box here, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get engaged, or when you have I had when ways
Speaker 1: put a price on pollution. I know it's harder than
Speaker 1: the US when you talk about carbon tax, carbom PRICI,
Speaker 1: but actually I got support of financial institutions. Once you
Speaker 1: get to all of the majors came on board, and
Speaker 1: it really helps when people say, yeah, this is smart policy,
Speaker 1: like this is actually making it a lot free to pollute,
Speaker 1: for example. Thank you so much. I loved it. gave
Speaker 1: us a lot to think about. Good luck with everything
Speaker 1: and look forward to hearing more. Katheryn McKenna, as she's
Speaker 1: chair of the UN High Level Expert Group. Former minister
Speaker 1: of environment climate change of Canada, on site with us
Speaker 1: at the Air Shot Prize innovation semi. Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on Itunes, soundcloud
Speaker 1: or Bloomberg Dot Com, and you can also listen to
Speaker 1: our radio show at two PM Eastern on Bloomberg radio
Speaker 1: or watch us on Youtube. Sarah to Bloomberg Global News.