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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to hoops tonight here at the volume

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Speaker 2: heavy Friday. Everybody, hope all if you guys are having

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Speaker 2: an incredible week. It is time to start prepping for

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Speaker 2: Timberwolves Nuggets. And I could think of nobody better than

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Speaker 2: my friend Adam Morrez, who works it covers the Nuggets

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Speaker 2: as well as the rest of the league through the

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Speaker 2: All NBA podcast as well as through DNBR. Just a

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Speaker 2: basketball mind that I have a ton of respect for

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Speaker 2: Super Super Lucky to have him on the show today,

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Speaker 2: and I'm excited to get into a bunch of stuff Adam.

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Speaker 2: I want to start with the Lakers series though, because

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Speaker 2: a really interesting thing happened to me as a fan.

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Speaker 2: That's the one team that I have a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a fan rooting interest in, you know, going into

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Speaker 2: that series, I did not think they had a real chance.

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Speaker 2: Like there was always like that tiny little chance, you know,

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Speaker 2: like the if things break right and everybody plays out

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Speaker 2: of their mind, you have that chance. But like I

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Speaker 2: never really believed, and I didn't believe in Game one,

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Speaker 2: didn't believe in Game two when they were up twenty,

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Speaker 2: didn't believe in Game three when they led at the half,

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Speaker 2: didn't believe in Game four when they won. But there

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Speaker 2: was a brief moment in Game five. I wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: picked the Lakers, just because it's really difficult to beat

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Speaker 2: a good team four times in a row under any

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Speaker 2: circums dances, let alone when they have the best player

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Speaker 2: of the world and they're the defending champ. But there

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Speaker 2: was a brief moment in game five where I felt

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Speaker 2: like the Lakers were starting to gain some ground mentally

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Speaker 2: and physically. They started to feel more confident in the matchup,

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Speaker 2: and they had kind of figured out what their advantages were.

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Speaker 2: And obviously through the KCP ankle injury in Jamal Murray's calf,

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Speaker 2: it just felt like the Lakers were starting to gain

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Speaker 2: some ground, and I thought that they went from having

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Speaker 2: a tiny chance to like an actually acknowledgable chance. So

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Speaker 2: am I just being a crazy fan or did you

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Speaker 2: feel a similar type of trend over the course of

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Speaker 2: that series, and again not saying the Lakers would have won,

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Speaker 2: but went from very unlikely to at least having some

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Speaker 2: sort of opportunity there.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think what you're hinting at here is Denver

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Speaker 1: didn't look good. And I think the one thing that

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Speaker 1: we always have to remember in the series is that

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Speaker 1: there's always one team that's more urgent. Denver never felt

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Speaker 1: urgency in the series, outside of maybe the second half

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Speaker 1: of Game two, when I think they let the game

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Speaker 1: get a little too far out of hand and then

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Speaker 1: by the skin of their team made it back. But

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Speaker 1: in Game five, I just thought Denver and it really

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Speaker 1: through the whole series, I thought Denver took the Lakers

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Speaker 1: very lightly. They seemed bored with the series, and I

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Speaker 1: think the team.

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Speaker 3: You know, projected that.

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Speaker 1: I'll say, I don't think anybody on the record came

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Speaker 1: out and said, Hey, I think that this is a

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Speaker 1: series that Denver had a hard time getting through. But

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Speaker 1: that was the sense I got So if they lost

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Speaker 1: that game and you have to go on the road

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Speaker 1: back to Los Angeles, does that mean they would muster

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Speaker 1: up the energy like Okay, let's all lean forward now,

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Speaker 1: let's get into it. Or is that one that maybe

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Speaker 1: would have taken the wind out of the sale.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: What I will say is that I thought Anthony Davis

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Speaker 1: was very comfortable scoring on Yokic in that series. Jokic

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Speaker 1: never really solved that, and then Jamal Murray was banged up,

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Speaker 1: clearly did not play well in any of the games

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Speaker 1: in the series save for the fourth quarters of Games

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Speaker 1: two in Game five, So I think you look at

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Speaker 1: that and it's easy for me to say I think

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Speaker 1: the Nuggets had another gear that they have not tapped into,

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Speaker 1: and that'll be a storyline as we move on to

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Speaker 1: the next series. But at the same time, Denver looked tired,

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Speaker 1: Murray looked banged up, and I think they were very

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Speaker 1: happy to get that series done when they did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I said the same thing after Game four.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Denver has not had urgency, meaning like

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Speaker 2: they were I felt like they were approaching the series

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Speaker 2: with a certain level of professionalism, like they were given

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Speaker 2: their eighty five ninety percent effort. But again, when you

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Speaker 2: beat a team that many times in a row, it's

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Speaker 2: impossible to feel threatened. And there's also no way to

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Speaker 2: replicate like true urgency, which I look at it like

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Speaker 2: an actual fear of losing. Right. That was what was

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Speaker 2: interesting to me about Game five though, is like it

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Speaker 2: felt like a game the Nuggets kind of needed, but

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Speaker 2: the Lakers were able to kind of remain competitive throughout

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day. Though, like I thought,

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Speaker 2: there was one specific thing that prevented me from ever

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Speaker 2: really believing the Lakers had a real chance, and it

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Speaker 2: had to do with perimeter defense, which I think is

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Speaker 2: going to be interesting as we get into the Timberwolve series.

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Speaker 2: But during the regular season, the Lakers had like a

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Speaker 2: one to ninety four I think defensive rating and the

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Speaker 2: clutch against Denver, they were scoring like every time down

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Speaker 2: the floor, and then Game two k around and they

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Speaker 2: scored on eight of their final nine possessions, right, and

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Speaker 2: like then we get into Game five and once again

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Speaker 2: it was like at the end of the game, it

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Speaker 2: was like another Jamal Murray driving layup in pick and roll,

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Speaker 2: another pull up jumper to win the game. Obviously he

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Speaker 2: hit three on an offensive rebound, put back or offensive

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Speaker 2: rebound at the end of the game too. To me,

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Speaker 2: it really came down to the Lakers never had a

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Speaker 2: guy who could guard Jamal well, Like I think Austin

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Speaker 2: did his job within the game plan, but he just

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Speaker 2: didn't have the physical tools necessary to really make Jamal uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: And then the matchup that killed us all series was

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Speaker 2: that Michael Porter Junior matchup. And again, part of that's

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Speaker 2: roster construction, Like when you roll out two forwards at

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Speaker 2: the three and four that can't navigate screens, you're gonna

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Speaker 2: run into issues with MPJ kind of running off of screens.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't just Ruey either, Lebron lost him a few

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Speaker 2: times in the series as well. But like that, that

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Speaker 2: to me, was where that matchup went south for the Lakers. Ironically,

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Speaker 2: when we go into the next round, like I viewed Denver,

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Speaker 2: I view Minnesota as a much tougher defensive matchup for Denver,

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Speaker 2: but a much easier offensive matchup. I think some of

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Speaker 2: the damage that the Lakers did to the Nuggets in

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Speaker 2: the paint had a lot to do with not just

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Speaker 2: Lebron and Ad as rollers, but their IQ and read

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Speaker 2: and reactability on that back line. Like, I just don't

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Speaker 2: think you're gonna get that from Go Bear in Towns

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Speaker 2: in this series, and so did you kind of like

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Speaker 2: get a similar sense where like some of the unique

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Speaker 2: ability of Lebron and Ad as a front court duo

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Speaker 2: caused some problems for Denver that other teams in the

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Speaker 2: league just can't.

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Speaker 1: There's no question, and the team themselves reiterated that after

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Speaker 1: the series. I mean, Jamal Murray, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you saw his postgame presser after a Game five, he

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Speaker 1: was as impressed with Lebron as I was. He talked

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Speaker 1: about how he was one of his favorite players growing up,

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Speaker 1: and then he just kept saying he makes you think

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Speaker 1: every playing well, you're out there, you're just constantly having

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Speaker 1: to think through And look, they were a seven seed,

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Speaker 1: was flawed. It wasn't like they were a phenomenal all

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Speaker 1: around team. But I just think there's a reason Lebron

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Speaker 1: has only lost what eleven playoff series or something in

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Speaker 1: his entire career.

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Speaker 3: He's got eighty and eleven or something. All the time.

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Speaker 1: He's so good in the playoffs, and even with that

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Speaker 1: roster he just put so much pressure on you, and

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Speaker 1: then Anthony Davis had his jump shot going. I think

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Speaker 1: he was very confident against Jokich. I it's funny because

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Speaker 1: Yokic's numbers are tremendous. I thought he did a great

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Speaker 1: job against Jokich, one of the best jobs we've seen,

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Speaker 1: you know, on both ends, putting pressure on him on

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Speaker 1: offense and then defensively. Obviously they did that quick double,

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Speaker 1: but in the moments when he was one on one,

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Speaker 1: he made life difficult on Jokich. So I one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent agree that. I think those two guys did a

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Speaker 1: great job. I think the Lakers are better than people

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Speaker 1: probably will give them credit for. And just like last year,

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Speaker 1: the series was probably closer than the five games would

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Speaker 1: would indicate. But at the same time, Denver has been

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Speaker 1: doing this now for two years with this core five

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Speaker 1: and for seven years with that core too. Murray and Jokic,

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Speaker 1: they have so many reps it's hard to it's hard

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Speaker 1: I think for people to their heads around how many

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Speaker 1: reps that unit has together, how they've seen everything, and

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Speaker 1: both game winners, Jason came with no timeout. It's no

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Speaker 1: small detail. And then if you look at all the

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Speaker 1: details in those plays, all the little things guys did

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Speaker 1: where they got under the court. That was a team

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Speaker 1: that if you called a timeout. Most teams, if you

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Speaker 1: call it time out and draw up that exact action,

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Speaker 1: they would not be able to execute it with these

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Speaker 1: subtleties that Denver did, and they did that with no timeout,

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Speaker 1: and that's what makes them special. So when they win

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Speaker 1: all these games. Close to me, there's a level of

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Speaker 1: luck involved. Naturally, it's just math, you know, short ten

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Speaker 1: possessions is not that many, so ball bounces your way.

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Speaker 1: It makes a huge difference. But there's something to Denver

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Speaker 1: that I say, it's not all luck and it's not

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Speaker 1: all variants. That team just does every detail right in

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Speaker 1: those moments, and it's why they're the best clutch team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you brought up the seven years, I immediately

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Speaker 2: thought about Malone's comments after Game five, like trust the

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Speaker 2: best two man game in the league, Like because it's

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Speaker 2: just a certain level of like it almost is instinctual

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Speaker 2: for the two of them after all this time, and

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Speaker 2: like last note on the Lakers before we move on,

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Speaker 2: like there's gonna be a lot of moments at their

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Speaker 2: expanse first round exit. They both of them talked about

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Speaker 2: how they wanted Denver again. One thing I'll say, though,

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Speaker 2: I think Lebron and Ad put their money where their

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Speaker 2: mouth was. Like a Jokic kicked AD's ass last year,

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Speaker 2: and Jamal soundly out played Lebron. I thought Ad closed

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Speaker 2: the gap a little bit. Obviously didn't surpass him, but

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Speaker 2: he could closed the gap a little bit. And I

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Speaker 2: thought Lebron, actually, outside of the clutch shooting, was a

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Speaker 2: better player in this series than Jamal Murray. So like

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Speaker 2: shout out to them, but like at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, it actually just shined a giant light on

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Speaker 2: the chasm between the down the roster competence, and like again,

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Speaker 2: like I think it's actually fascinating that the Lakers went

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Speaker 2: about a bizarre roster build with two skill guards and

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Speaker 2: two big forwards instead of having a natural two and

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Speaker 2: a natural three. And who were the two guys who

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Speaker 2: let them down in the biggest way in the series.

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Speaker 2: It was the second skill guard and the second big forward,

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Speaker 2: Ruey and d Lo, And I thought that was fascinating.

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Speaker 2: So like, in a weird way, it was like I

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Speaker 2: was proud of the Lakers. I was proud of Lebron

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Speaker 2: and Ad but it was like very revealing as to

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Speaker 2: why there's a gap between these two teams and what

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Speaker 2: they need to address moving forward. So looking at Wolves Nuggets,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna read through some quick numbers before we get

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Speaker 2: into the weeds here. So season series was two two.

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Speaker 2: The only time all ten starters played was way back

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Speaker 2: in early November, like I think it was November one,

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Speaker 2: So we're talking about that just feels like an eon ago.

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Speaker 2: Denver won the most recent game all the starters played

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Speaker 2: except for Kat and Jamal Murray was on a minutes

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Speaker 2: restriction in that game. I think he only played like

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Speaker 2: twenty six minutes and that was the game. If you

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Speaker 2: remember where they went without Jamal in those like early

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Speaker 2: second quarter early fourth quarter units that he usually leads,

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Speaker 2: and just really good basketball for Peyton Watson and Aaron

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Speaker 2: Gordon as they just kind of manufactured buckets and kind

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Speaker 2: of won in a classic Denver fashion. It was competitive

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Speaker 2: and then Denver pulled away late. The metrics for the

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Speaker 2: whole season, in all four games, the Nuggets had a

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Speaker 2: one nine point one offensive rating. The Wolves had a

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Speaker 2: one fourteen point nine, although they had some blowout wins

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Speaker 2: in games where Jamal Murray didn't play. Denver dominated the

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Speaker 2: rebounding battle. They grabbed fifty four point two percent of

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Speaker 2: available rebounds. They also rebounded thirty three percent of their

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Speaker 2: own misses. I think that's fascinating because Minnesota destroyed Phoenix

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Speaker 2: on the glass. That was a huge part of that series.

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Speaker 2: They grabbed forty percent of their own misses in that series,

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Speaker 2: So I think that's gonna be interesting. Denver one points

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Speaker 2: in the paint in the season series two sixteen to

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Speaker 2: one eighty six. Denver won second chance points fifty six

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Speaker 2: to forty six. Minnesota won fast break points fifty six

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Speaker 2: to forty seven, and big one here one points off

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Speaker 2: a turnovers seventy five to fifty. I think that's gonna

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Speaker 2: be a huge A narrative in this series is just

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Speaker 2: how well Denver can take care of the basketball and

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Speaker 2: on the gambling side of things. According to DraftKings, the

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Speaker 2: Nuggets are currently a minus two to zero five favor

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Speaker 2: That's pretty substantial, so Vegas views Denver as the better team.

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Speaker 2: So let's start with Denver on offense, and as I

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Speaker 2: mentioned at the start of the show, to me, the

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Speaker 2: main difference in this series is the giant gap in

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Speaker 2: perimeter defense talent, Like, I think we're gonna see Ada

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Speaker 2: McDaniels on Jamal and and on Michael Porter Junior for

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Speaker 2: a good chunk of the series, and I think that

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Speaker 2: is just going to be a substantially larger challenge for

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Speaker 2: those two guys than what the Lakers brought to the table.

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Speaker 2: So what do you see in this series with Denver

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Speaker 2: on offense? How do you think their approach will be

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Speaker 2: different compared to the Lakers series.

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Speaker 3: I think the whole thing will be different.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Lakers actually dictated Denver's offense in a

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Speaker 1: unique way in the last round, and that they quit

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Speaker 1: double Jokic every time he's in the post, and that's

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Speaker 1: such a compromising defense to play, to say, we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna send two guys at him and then just scramble

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Speaker 1: every possession we're going to be in rotation. I don't

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Speaker 1: think Minnesota will do that. I think they're going to

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Speaker 1: trust that Rudy Gobert has that so we don't need

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Speaker 1: to double. He'sier rim protector. And that'll be an interesting

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Speaker 1: one because it'll come down a lot too. How well

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Speaker 1: does Jokic score on Karl Anthony Towns with that you know,

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Speaker 1: spy defense from Rudy Gobert. That'll be a big one.

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Speaker 1: I think Jokic will do very well in that, and

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Speaker 1: I actually think Denver, starting last year with the Rudy

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Speaker 1: Ruey adjustment, Denver has seen every team try some form

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Speaker 1: of that ring your rim protector on Aaron Gordon and

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Speaker 1: just bring him over to try to block shots. Denver

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Speaker 1: has a lot of experience and I think they'll be successful.

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Speaker 1: Where I think they'll struggle is with the pick and roll,

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Speaker 1: which is obviously the bread and butter of Denver's offense.

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Speaker 1: Nikil Alexander Walker and Jaden McDaniels, in my opinion, are

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Speaker 1: two of the absolute best in the league at not

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Speaker 1: getting screened on screens. They're so hard to run pick

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Speaker 1: and roll game because they're so skinny. They get so

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Speaker 1: into you and then that screen just becomes non existent.

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Speaker 1: And even if you do screen them, they're both don't

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Speaker 1: quit on the play, try to contest from behind and

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Speaker 1: can have success with that. Murray historically has been great

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Speaker 1: at punishing guys that are trying to, you know, play

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Speaker 1: from behind, top locker challenge from behind. He's so good at,

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Speaker 1: you know, his glitchy little moves and creating separation there

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Speaker 1: and putting the defense making them guess. But in the

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Speaker 1: first round he didn't do that. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if he didn't do that because of all the injuries

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Speaker 1: or what it is. But if Murray is able to

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Speaker 1: play the game that I think that he has played

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Speaker 1: in years past in the playoff, I think he can

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Speaker 1: score on Jaden McDaniels, as good of a defender as

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Speaker 1: he is, And I think Denver can compromise Minnesota's defense

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Speaker 1: in a way less so than most teams, but still

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Speaker 1: in a way that makes them successful. But if he can't,

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Speaker 1: then there's so many downstream effects of that, that pick

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Speaker 1: and roll loses a lot of its bite, and so

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Speaker 1: much of what Denver does is downstream of that initial

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Speaker 1: pick and roll action. So to me, I think we're

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Speaker 1: gonna know very early in this series how healthy is

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Speaker 1: Murray and how how effective is the Yokich Murray pick

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Speaker 1: and roll when those two guys are guarding.

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Speaker 2: I think that's part of why winning Game five was

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Speaker 2: so important, to buy that extra couple of days off.

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Speaker 2: That was that was that was I viewed that as

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Speaker 2: such a must win for Denver, and I can't say enough,

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Speaker 2: Jamal got credit for the clutch shots, but I thought

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Speaker 2: he was awesome at the beginning of that game too,

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Speaker 2: to kind of put him away or to kind of

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Speaker 2: keep him close, and like again, like having having that

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Speaker 2: Jayden matchup, you want every bit of physical pop that

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Speaker 2: Jamal Murray has. Starting with Jokic, I agree with you.

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Speaker 2: I think is gonna have to score a lot in

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Speaker 2: this series. Again, Minnesota in general, as a matter of

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Speaker 2: I identity, doesn't like to double or defend pick and

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Speaker 2: rolls three on two. They try to stay home as

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Speaker 2: much as possible. As matter of fact, they were fourth

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Speaker 2: in opponent assists per one hundred possessions in the regular

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Speaker 2: season in second so far in the postseason. That was

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Speaker 2: a big part. Now, Phoenix, I thought missed a lot

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Speaker 2: of reads. I think there are opportunities there. Excuse me

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Speaker 2: that Denver will capitalize on to a much higher level

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Speaker 2: than Phoenix did, just because Yokic is so much, so

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Speaker 2: much better at identifying those openings than Katie, Devin Booker

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Speaker 2: and Bradley Beal were. But I do think that's gonna

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Speaker 2: be a big part of it. I went back and

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Speaker 2: I watched every single shot attempt that Jokic took over

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Speaker 2: the course of the regular season against Minnesota, KYLEI Anderson

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Speaker 2: and Nasrid. It's just a layup. They just can't They

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Speaker 2: literally can't stop Yokic at all. It kind of reminds

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Speaker 2: me of the Ruy Hatcha Mura matchup. It's just like

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Speaker 2: anytime you left him on an island, it was a

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Speaker 2: bucket every time. He's too big for go bear, and

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Speaker 2: he's good at like getting Rudy to jump to a

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Speaker 2: specific angle so that he can pivot around him and

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Speaker 2: get all the way to the rim. Kat's the one

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Speaker 2: guy I've seen that actually can kind of like hold

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Speaker 2: his ground a little bit and make him shoot over

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Speaker 2: the top. But I didn't think Jokic looked really bothered

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Speaker 2: by Kat either in the in the matchups that I watched,

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Speaker 2: So like, I think that that's gonna be a huge

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Speaker 2: part of this series, is Minnesota trying to tie your

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Speaker 2: Yokic out by making him a score. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's gonna be their kind of like game plan in

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Speaker 2: this sense. On the ball screens. One of the things

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Speaker 2: I thought was interesting with Jada McDaniels on Jamal Murray

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Speaker 2: a couple things. First of all screening is gonna be huge,

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Speaker 2: Like the quality of screens that they set, not just

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Speaker 2: with Jokic, but when they set like staggered screens where

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Speaker 2: they have. One of the things they had some success,

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Speaker 2: some success with to get McDaniels off of Jamal was

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Speaker 2: like three man actions basically like having a a KCP

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Speaker 2: or Michael Porter Junior set the screen before Jamal runs

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Speaker 2: into Jokic. They can get some success slipping out of

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Speaker 2: that too with whoever the other guard is. But like

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Speaker 2: one of the things I noticed when Jayden was on

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Speaker 2: Jamal Murray, Murray seemed very cognizant of the back pressure

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Speaker 2: and much more willing to get downhill and take floaters.

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Speaker 2: That was a big one I noticed. And then two,

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Speaker 2: he was much more active as a passer in the

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Speaker 2: season series because of that Jada McDaniel's matchup. As a

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Speaker 2: matter of fact, he averaged eight assist per game in

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Speaker 2: only thirty one minutes per game against Minnesota, So like

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Speaker 2: I do think that's going to be a big part

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Speaker 2: of it. He also hunted a lot more threes. That

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Speaker 2: was something he looked to do instead of trying to

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Speaker 2: get downhill where that where that back pressure could be

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Speaker 2: an issue. He would drag out more side to side

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Speaker 2: and look to take more three point shots, and by

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Speaker 2: the way, he shot really well from three in the matchup.

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Speaker 2: I think another part of it, too, is just trying

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Speaker 2: to keep Conley involved in the action as much as possible.

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Speaker 2: He's just their weakest link defensively, and he gives you

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Speaker 2: the best opportunity to try to try to find like

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Speaker 2: those slip cuts and things like that. They did have

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Speaker 2: some success with that in the regular season. But the

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Speaker 2: biggest one I think that I put in my notes

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Speaker 2: was getting out in transition as much as possible, just

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Speaker 2: like as many times as you can over the course

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Speaker 2: of the game, avoiding that half court set where they

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Speaker 2: can load up and bring that physicality where that can

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Speaker 2: be a problem. But again, I think this is going

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Speaker 2: to be the toughest part of the series for Denver.

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Speaker 2: When we get over to Minnesota on offense, I think

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Speaker 2: Denver's in for a much easier type of matchup than

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Speaker 2: what they dealt with with the Lakers. I think that

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Speaker 2: really is going to be the series, in my opinion,

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Speaker 2: is can Denver slow down Minnesota more than Minnesota slows

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Speaker 2: down Denver?

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Speaker 1: And these two things are connected because I love that

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Speaker 1: you brought up. Both of the points you just brought

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Speaker 1: up with Denver, I think are sort of the same point.

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Speaker 1: One the off ball screening to free up Murray from

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Speaker 1: McDaniel's just to create switches. That's big, as is Denver

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Speaker 1: in transition. If you get stops and you get the

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Speaker 1: other way, you can create you know, cross matches, And

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Speaker 1: that's going to be especially important because I think Minnesota

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Speaker 1: is designed to stop Denver when they have their main guys,

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Speaker 1: and I would throw Nikhil Alexander Walker in there. He's

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Speaker 1: interchangeable in some ways because of what he can do

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Speaker 1: defensively as well. But with their guys and with the

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Speaker 1: right matchups. But if you get a cross match with

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Speaker 1: Rudy Gobergarding Jokich and it's Denver starters out there all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, now they're out of sorts of thing.

432
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,399
Speaker 1: Now Karl Anthony Towns is on Aaron Gordon, He's the

433
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 1: weak side guy. If McDaniel says' on him and you

434
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,159
Speaker 1: get Mike Conley. Now Mike Conley is having to guard

435
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,199
Speaker 1: Murray through screens and from behind, and Murray is just

436
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: so comfortable when you put a smaller guy on him.

437
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 1: He's one of the best guards in the NBA at

438
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 1: playing big and playing through that. So I think it

439
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 1: is transition and how Denver generates generate switches in the

440
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 1: half court is going to be a big part of

441
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 1: the series because the base defense from Minnesota is as

442
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 1: good as the NBA has at guarding Denver, but as

443
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 1: soon as you start to mix those pieces around, they

444
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 1: lose it.

445
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 2: And they're just good at that. And that's that's why

446
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 2: I feel more confident in Denver in this matchup, like

447
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 2: in the sense that, like Phoenix, I was so frustrated

448
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 2: watching film in that series at their process and how

449
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,959
Speaker 2: many like simple basic basketball reads they missed to generate

450
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 2: closeout opportunities, and I just know Denver is going to

451
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,640
Speaker 2: be so much more deliberate about that. And for instance too,

452
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:56,880
Speaker 2: like I think one of the things they can look

453
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 2: to do is when Kat is on Yokid, which run

454
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 2: more screening actions for Jokic to have him catch on

455
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 2: the move where Kat's either in a trail position or

456
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 2: he's getting caught on a screen where he can come

457
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 2: downhill at go Bear. They had a lot of success

458
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 2: with that in the regular season and Honestly, one of

459
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 2: the things that kind of think that I think kind

460
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 2: of helps prep Jokic for this matchup is the time

461
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 2: that Murray missed this season in these matchups where Jokic

462
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 2: had to be really active as a scorer, and he

463
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 2: got a really good look at that specifically. So moving

464
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 2: on to Minnesota on offense, So let's just let's start here.

465
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 2: Do you I think we're gonna see KCP start on Ant,

466
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 2: But do you think there are any alternative looks that

467
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 2: Denver can go with? Because Anthony Edwards is going to be,

468
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 2: to me, the entire, like the entire swing factor of

469
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 2: this series because the player he was in the regular

470
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 2: season was somewhere in the you know, ten to fifteenth

471
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 2: best player in the world, regardless of how you feel

472
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 2: about Ant in his future and potential blah blah blah whatever.

473
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 2: He played like a bona fide top tier MVP superstar

474
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 2: against Phoenix, and if he brings that into this round,

475
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: that change fundamentally changes this type of matchup, Right, So, like,

476
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: let's just start with AUNT. How do you think Denver

477
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 2: is going to confront the ANT problem?

478
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 1: Well, I think you're right that they're almost certainly going

479
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,959
Speaker 1: to try and hope KCP is the answer there, and

480
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: because there's trickle down effects from that matchup, which allows

481
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: Aaron Gordon to guard Karl Anthony Towns, which allows Aaron

482
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 1: Gordon to probably stagger more and play backup center, which

483
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 1: is what Denver wants. If that doesn't work and you're

484
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: forced to bring Aaron Gordon over to guard Anthony Edwards,

485
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of other decisions you have to make

486
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: behind that then to make up for the rotation. But

487
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: there are two guys on Denver's roster that I think

488
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: become the swing factor in this series, and that's Christian Brown,

489
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: Payton Watson. They were acquired for matchups like this one,

490
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: not necessarily Anthony Edwards specifically, but they were required. Calvin

491
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 1: Booth stated philosophy was we already had the offensive part

492
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: down and probably have it for years to come with

493
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: Jamal Murray, Niko jokicch and then you know, you can

494
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: find a Michael Porter, you can find a KCP, you

495
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: can find Aaron Gordon. They happen to have all three,

496
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: which is great, but you can find guys that can

497
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: space the floor in the ways that they do.

498
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 3: Now you just need.

499
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: Length and defense, because you need in a playoff series

500
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: to be able to give a guy multiple looks. We

501
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: just said Nikil Alexander Walker, he can give Jaden McDaniels

502
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: a break every now and then, so that you have

503
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: a well energized defender on Murray for forty eight minutes

504
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: to the game. The same has to be true for

505
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards and that means that Christian Brown and Peyton

506
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,479
Speaker 1: Watson are going to have to be effective. And if

507
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: you told me right now, I think both of them

508
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: are capable of being effective against him. I know Minnesota

509
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: fans will laugh at that. These guys are really good

510
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: young defenders, but it's also possible that they are not

511
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: effective on him because Anthony Edwards is, to your point,

512
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: at MVP level player, at least he was in the

513
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: first round. So I don't think those guys can stop him.

514
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,479
Speaker 1: But can they play eight minutes a game collectively on

515
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: him so that KCP is you know, is able to

516
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: play a little bit more aggressively. CASEP is so good

517
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: with his hands, like Anthony Edwards is going to be

518
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: able to body him and bully him on straight line drives,

519
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: close outs and those types of things. But CACP is

520
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: so good at forcing you to take bad angles, and

521
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: the moment you try, Anthony Edwards has a new move.

522
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've observed it where he uses the extra

523
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: step so you have a pivot foot and he'll pivot

524
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: and then leave his pivot foot and jump and finish.

525
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 1: And Jalen Brunson does this, Shay Gil just Alexander does this.

526
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: That's a heck of a move for a guy that

527
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,719
Speaker 1: has his physical tools. But the one thing about that

528
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: move is you're off balance when you go to that

529
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 1: extra step, just for a second before you can elevate,

530
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: like you think about a player, they have to almost

531
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: dip into it. CACP might be the best in the

532
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: NBA at stealing the ball when players do that. Anytime

533
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: you try to take that extra step. His hands are

534
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: so quick. So I think it'll be a good matchup.

535
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: But Christian Brown, to answer your question, Christian Brown, Payton

536
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: Watson our X factors because if they are a zero

537
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: impact on him, Denver's in a world of trouble. If

538
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: they can make a mild to medium impact on him,

539
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: I think Denver's odds go up quite a bit.

540
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: That long step you're talking about I'm pretty sure he

541
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 2: learned that from Kylie Anderson. I think that might be

542
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: the guy. I think you might have spent some time

543
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 2: in the lab together figuring that out. And like, I

544
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: love the point you made about the straight line drives

545
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 2: and close outs. Like when I watched tape on this matchup,

546
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: I hate KCP on ant and any sort of one

547
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 2: on one situation, but I love it in ball screens

548
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: where it's like more about screen navigation, back pressure, attacking

549
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: the shooting pocket, things along those lines, and you know

550
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: the alternative look I looked at. There was a post

551
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: up we saw a KCP do a pretty solid job

552
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 2: on Lebron James, at least until Lebron started trying to

553
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: go to the post consistently. But like Kat is just

554
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: not the type of post threat that Lebron James is.

555
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: He's just not. And there was a play that I

556
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,479
Speaker 2: saw on tape where Kat tried to post up KCP

557
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 2: and he cleanly stripped him on that kind of like

558
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 2: he's just really good at like as soon as anybody

559
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: goes to their drop step to get to their right

560
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 2: shoulder or left shoulder, right handed hook, he just attacks

561
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: the shooting pocket and just knocks the ball loose, and

562
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 2: so I actually think they might be able to in

563
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: certain situations go to Gordon on ant as like just

564
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: kind of like a different look. And I pulled some

565
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 2: possessions for my film session those of you guys who

566
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: are listening, probably tomorrow morning, I'm gonna record just a

567
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 2: basic kind of film session on the series. You guys

568
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 2: can see some visual examples. But I think Gordon can

569
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: kind of cause some problems for Aunt is just like

570
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: a different type of look, and I think ACP can

571
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: hold up on Kat. I'd be more worried about rebounding

572
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: in that situation than I would about like having to

573
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: like deal with scoring.

574
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: Well, what about the rotation behind it?

575
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: Because while I agree with you, Denver counts on Aaron

576
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: Gordon to be the backup center, and in this matchup,

577
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: they're gonna play nas Red with the bench and they'll

578
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: probably play Gobert and or Karl Anthony Towns behind it.

579
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 1: Denver doesn't have another option there. It's DeAndre Jordan, it's

580
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: Zeke Naji. I think both of those are very bad options.

581
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 1: So if you do use Aaron Gordon on Anthony Edwards

582
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: your stagger minute, now you have to find a backup center,

583
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: and you might also have to find other minutes when

584
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: Aaron Gordon eventually needs a rest to guard Karl Anthony

585
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: Towns with the starting lineup. So that's why I don't

586
00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: know if that's.

587
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 2: An answer at I don't look at it as an

588
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: answer so to speak, in terms of like a long

589
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 2: term Look, I'm talking more about like a big moment

590
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: if you know key possessions late you want to prevent

591
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: a one on one matchup where and can just go

592
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: straight to work like that sort of thing. I agree

593
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: with you, like even above and beyond the part with

594
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: the rotation. Also the back line, like a huge part

595
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: to me of why the lebron Ad pick and roll

596
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: caused Denver problems is when Yokic comes up to the

597
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 2: level of the screen and Gordon's pressuring the ball, your

598
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 2: two biggest players are twenty five feet from the basket

599
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: or twenty to twenty five feet from the basket, and

600
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: so when they get the ball past Jokic to the pocket,

601
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: it was smaller players on the back line that was

602
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: what was so genius about the adjustment of putting Gordon

603
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 2: on Ad. Is Ad can't shoot, so Gordon was constantly

604
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: on the back line waiting there, and a big part

605
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 2: of the early part of that run when they were

606
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,959
Speaker 2: down twenty in Game two was Gordon bothering Lebron at

607
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 2: the rim as a helper. And so I actually I

608
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 2: agree with you. I'm more concerned about it on the

609
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: back line, which is why I wouldn't do it in

610
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: a large sample. I'm just talking about like any sort

611
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: of singular possession where you need to stop. Don't hate

612
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: the idea of having of Gordon spent some time on Cat. Now.

613
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: I think obviously we're gonna probably see Gordon on Ant.

614
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: Excuse me, we're gonna see Gordon on Kat to start

615
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 2: Jokicon Gobert, Michael Porter Junior on Jaden. One of the

616
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 2: things I think is gonna be interesting is the pick

617
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: and roll coverages. So, for instance, one of the things

618
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: that Vogel did in the regular season that worked really

619
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,479
Speaker 2: well on Minnesota but didn't work in the playoffs was

620
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: he ran like aggressive high drops and hedges with with

621
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: with tagging the roller against Ant to kind of like

622
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: play him into his worst ability, which is playmaking. And

623
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: then he would play passive like deep drop against Conley

624
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: to bait him into his biggest weakness, which is passivity

625
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,719
Speaker 2: and his unwillingness to shoot. I actually would do that again.

626
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 2: I they handled it well against Phoenix. Ant had a

627
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 2: good play making series average like six assists per game

628
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: and some big moments, handled the high drop and hedge

629
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: really well. And Conley just happen to have a really

630
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: good scoring series where he did some damage to the

631
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: low drop and actually forced Vogel to adjust out of

632
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: it into the high drop. Do you agree with that

633
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: approach though? Is that how you would start? Would how

634
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: would you guard and pick and roll against Anton Conley individually?

635
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: I think that the roller has a lot to do

636
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: with this as well, like who it is that you're

637
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: rolling to the rim. Denver has played Gobert so many

638
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: times over the course of this era, and they played

639
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: him in a playoffs. And one of the things that

640
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: I think Denver is good at is if you know

641
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: if you are going to trap the ball, if you're

642
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: gonna hard hedge, or if you're gonna actually fully trap.

643
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: Denver usually just hard hedges, But if you're gonna hard hedge,

644
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: you want him to catch the ball outside the paint,

645
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: because he's not the best decision maker there. You compromise

646
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: yourself up top, but now make him put the ball

647
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: on the floor and make the extra read. I don't

648
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: know that you necessarily want to give. You're suggesting that

649
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: Denver with con I understand it, because you're right, is

650
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: see how many floaters does he want to take? He's

651
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: capable of making a lot of them, but how many

652
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: does he want to take? It doesn't feel natural when

653
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: that's the when, When that's what's happening with Anthony Edwards,

654
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: I'm very curious because you're right that my inclination would

655
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: be force him into play making, force him into decision

656
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: read difficult reads is pick and roll one pass away

657
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: difficult read though that to me feels pretty easy to make.

658
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: Those are not the type of ones I think you're

659
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: gonna say, we're going to force him to kick out

660
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: to the open wing shooter. I think he is beyond that.

661
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: But there are some secondary things, some secondary reads that

662
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: I think that's going to try to force him into

663
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: that might confuse him a little bit. By the way,

664
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: this is one difference from the Phoenix series, and this

665
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: one is that Nurkic and Jokic. Jokic is a significantly

666
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: smarter pick and roll player, just in terms of making

667
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: you make the hard read. He's not great at stopping

668
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: the lab or any of that stuff, but he is

669
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: good at making you hesitate a half second too long

670
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: before realizing what your read should have been. That in

671
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: between game and stunts and things. So Anthony Edwards is

672
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: an improved playmaker. But I think yok which is good

673
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: at making guys second guests themselves, and that'll be an

674
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: interesting cat and mouse game in the Phoenix.

675
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: Was super aggressive at the nail as well, like, and

676
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: that did make a lot of really easy reads where

677
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: like Ant would come off and Nurkic would be in

678
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: the high drop. But then also Devin Booker would just

679
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: be ignoring his man like sitting in the driving lane.

680
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: So that you're right, there were like these really easy

681
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: swing pass reads. I think, I think what the way

682
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: that it should look in my opinion is essentially just

683
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: making sure you tag from the weak side corner and

684
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: don't overhelp one pass away at least make Ant make

685
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: skip passes, if that makes sense. Now, the one now,

686
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: the one thing that opens up, And I pulled an

687
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: example of this that we'll see on film later on

688
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 2: Friday but when you don't dig down at the into

689
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: those driving lanes one pass away, it puts a lot

690
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: of pressure on Jokic to catch Ant as he comes off.

691
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: And there have been examples where Ant has been able

692
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: to beat Yolkic at the at the level of the

693
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: screen and then when he gets past him, there's not

694
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: a whole lot on the back line, So like, yeah,

695
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,959
Speaker 2: so it could be a little bit tougher, but like

696
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: that's the other thing too, is like you can always

697
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,239
Speaker 2: all you can always like go away from that if

698
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: Ants causing problems where he is picking you apart or

699
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 2: driving by Jokic. We saw Milwaukee have a really good

700
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: game against Minnesota earlier this year where they went deep

701
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: drop on both guys and basically said beat us with

702
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: pull jumpers and floaters all night long. We're gonna just

703
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 2: shut off the rim from you. And so I think

704
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: I think that's another look that they can go to

705
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 2: as well. And I think that's gonna be a read

706
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: and react thing, And really it's gonna come down to,

707
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: in my opinion, Ant's pull up jumper, because if he's

708
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: hitting the pull up jumper like he did against Phoenix,

709
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: I don't think you can run the deep drop necessarily,

710
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: but if he's if he can kind of regress back

711
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: to the regular season efficiency he was having there, I

712
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 2: think you might be able to get away with that.

713
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: Jamal Murray on Mike Conley, do you do you think

714
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: he's going to spend the majority of the time there?

715
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: I think so, because I think it makes the most

716
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: sense for him to. It's not that that's an easy one.

717
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: I think physically it might be easy, but even though

718
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 1: it's a mental task trying to contain him, but at

719
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: least physically it's not following antalogue around and even Jaden McDaniels,

720
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: who it can be a good slasher try to grab

721
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: some boards. That's a separate challenge. I think with Mike Conley,

722
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: it's more of a mental challenge, and I think that's

723
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: what Murray needs right now.

724
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: And then the other piece of it, too is when

725
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: they go to ball screens that don't involve Gobert. Like

726
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: you mentioned, I agree, like you want to make Gobert

727
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: catch on the role and make him be a decision maker.

728
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: He's got kind of like stony hands, doesn't make quick

729
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: decisions as a tendency to misshots around the rim. However,

730
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: This is where Aaron Gordon is a huge advantage. I

731
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: actually think they can switch a lot of the cat

732
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 2: and nose red ball screens to avoid some of the

733
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: issues that you can run into with pick and pop.

734
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 2: As long as it's as long as it's as long

735
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: as it's Gordon or Watson. And by the way, I

736
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: didn't get to this earlier, but I loved the point

737
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: you made about Christian Brown and Peyton Watson. And you know,

738
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: one of the things that's been really staying out to

739
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: me in this postseason so far is just how important

740
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: athletic superiority is when it's this physical and it's this intense.

741
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 2: And just like I thought that was what was fascinating

742
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 2: about Bruce Brown as well. It was just like he

743
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: was just one of the best. He was a wrecking

744
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 2: ball athlete and he was able to make a lot

745
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: of plays there. But when Peyton Watson.

746
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: And by the way, Grayce and Allen going down last round,

747
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: I look Sons were gonna lose that series one way

748
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: or another. But that was part of why he was

749
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: so valuable, is both lengthy and athleticism was needed there.

750
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: And you take him out and all of a sudden,

751
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: you lose that you replace it with a Kogie who's

752
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: smaller athletic, but he's smaller and a team that was

753
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: already cooked.

754
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and well, and the problem with specifically Grayson

755
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 2: is like he's one of the most important pieces for

756
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 2: Phoenix in terms of like getting the ball, popping around

757
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 2: and getting three and getting three point shots, and then

758
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 2: like without Grayson, they just don't get generated enough to

759
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: reason it's a whole bunch of issues, but Phoenix, Phoenix

760
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: is a whole other different set of problems that we

761
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 2: have to get into. So the other thing I put

762
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: in here is playing off their defense. So like again, Minnesota,

763
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: they forced Denver into sixteen turnovers per game during the

764
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 2: regular season, and they dominated points off of turnovers seventy

765
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: five to fifty. And so I think just in general

766
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: looking at both teams, for Minnesota, obviously they can have

767
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: half court offense issues and so getting out in transition

768
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: is going to be a big weapon for them. But

769
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: also for Denver, they just have to take care of

770
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: the basketball because that was a consistent issue during the

771
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: regular season. That's something that they have to avoid. Is

772
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: there anything else that you have in terms of like

773
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: X's and those that you wanted to get into from

774
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 2: the series.

775
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: The offensive rebounding to transition defense is always an interesting question,

776
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: and your point about Denver turning the ball over and

777
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,919
Speaker 1: getting offensive rebounds, they need to not turn it over

778
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: and put pressure on second chance points because to your point,

779
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: if this is a pure half court, I mean, we've

780
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: seen games in the NBA this year eight combined fast

781
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: break points, like neither team got it. If that happens

782
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: in this series, Bender's winning. I think Minnesota has to

783
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: generate turnover and they also have to get stops and

784
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: turn those into transition. Well, two ways you can take

785
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: care of that is don't turn the ball over and

786
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: hit the offensive glass so that they are extra scared

787
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: to get out in transition. They're more concerned with cleaning

788
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: up the glass. Denver has not been a great offensive

789
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: rebounding team. I do think there is scenarios where, again,

790
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: especially in transition, when you get cross matches, can you

791
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: bring go Bear outside the three point line because he

792
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: wants to be on Aaron Gordon's roaming the pain and

793
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: now he gets to do that, But you get a

794
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: cross match and all of a sudden he's out on

795
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: the perimeter. Aaron Gordon can eat in those moments, Michael

796
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: Porter can eat in those moments, and Denver's gonna have

797
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: to capitalize not just on those cross matches, but also

798
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: on the offensive glass behind those.

799
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: Agree getting cross matches by pushing in transition is like

800
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: usually the easiest way to generate an advantage because you

801
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about running a screening action early

802
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: in the shot clock to try to set up an

803
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 2: action that has to take place later in the shot clock.

804
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 2: I totally agree with you. So let's get to predictions,

805
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 2: and I want you to get into it a little bit.

806
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: How you actually expect the series to flow, but who

807
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: you pick in how many games? How do you kind

808
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 2: of project the series will flow.

809
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: I kind of think that this series is gonna look

810
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: like the previous one, different strategy, all the different things

811
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: we just talked about. But I think there was a

812
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: sense of, well, Denver didn't look that good in the

813
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 1: last round and they got through it. I think this

814
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: is gonna be another round where you get into game

815
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: five and you're thinking, you know, Denver hasn't looked very

816
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: good in this series, yet Minnesota hasn't necessarily looked very

817
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: good in the series because I think both of these

818
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: teams are gonna make life hard for the other. One

819
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: prediction I have is I think both teams are gonna

820
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: lose a home game in the first four games. I

821
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: think Denver's gonna split and I think Minnesota's gonna split.

822
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, a lot of

823
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: this comes down to Jamal Murray's health. I think Denver

824
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: is the better team. I think Minnesota's on the come up.

825
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 1: They remind me a lot of Denver in twenty twenty

826
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: in the bubble, where they were just on the edge

827
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: of being ready but not quite. There's still some flaws

828
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: and there were still some lessons that they had to learn,

829
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: but they were capable of upsetting teams that were perceived

830
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: to be better than them. I think Minnesota is much

831
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: the same. They have an incredible connection and incredible belief,

832
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: and then their bread and butter is of course their

833
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: defense with a superstar and Anthony Edwards, that's a great recipe.

834
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: But Denver's recipe has tried, is tested and proven, and

835
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: I think that this is a seven game series that

836
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: Denver wins. It becomes a three game series after the

837
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: two splits and I think the home teams win games

838
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: five six.

839
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: You just reminded me of something interesting from the bubble.

840
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: Do you remember the Donovan Mitchell Jamal Murray, you know

841
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 2: showdown in that in that first round series? Do you

842
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: remember that?

843
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 3: I will never forget that.

844
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: Do you remember like the way that was discussed after

845
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: the fact and it was like, oh, fake shooting in

846
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: the bubble this is and I'm like, like, I talk

847
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 2: about vindication Jamal Murray, Jim. You know, I was actually

848
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: talking about this with a buddy of mine at the

849
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: gym today because I, uh, so my my game, I'm

850
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 2: like a score and I rely a lot on tough

851
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: shot making myself, and so Jamal Murray's like my hero.

852
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 2: I love everything about that guy, like his combination of

853
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 2: footwork and the ability to get to like different types

854
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: of pull up jump shots from so many different dribble

855
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: combinations and footwork. I just I don't think people realize

856
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 2: how hard he's had to work to get to that point,

857
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: even like that shot that he hit over Austin Reeves,

858
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: Like the one over Ad was tougher because he had

859
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: to get more separation, but it's a more basic it's

860
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 2: a more basic footwork, just a basic step back for

861
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: right handed shooter going to the right. But that one

862
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 2: that he hit over Austin, the funky like start stop,

863
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 2: like backwards lean that he got to like just I

864
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 2: just love Jamal Murray's skill set. I think it's super fascinating.

865
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: And honestly, you just reminded me because that twenty twenty run,

866
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 2: I remember everyone was getting undercut. Everyone was like, Jamal

867
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 2: Murray's fake shooting. You know this guy's face, Everyone's faked,

868
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: and I just feel I feel like Jamal has been vindicated.

869
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 1: But so the one thing real quickly about that series, though,

870
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: is I actually think Anthony Edwards at this stage of SCRID.

871
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 3: I love Anthony Edwards.

872
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: He more mirrors Donovan Mitchell than he does Jamal Murray

873
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: in this one way. Murray took and made tough shots,

874
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: but I think had a very good sense of what

875
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: a good and bad shot was and when a bad shot.

876
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: Was needed from the team.

877
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: I think Donovan Mitchell doesn't quite understand even now. I

878
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: don't think Donovan Mitchell always understands when it's time for

879
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: the tough shot, Donovan, and when it's time for not

880
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: that try to find something else and I think Anthony Edwards,

881
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 1: I love him, and I don't think this has anything

882
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: to do with selfishness, But I think he is still

883
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: learning that lesson because there are still shots he takes,

884
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: including in key moments where you go not that one there,

885
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: like this is two minutes to go, it's a tie game.

886
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: You've got to find the better thing. You had ten

887
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: more seconds on the clock to get to that shot.

888
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: And I think that's one difference between them. But obviously

889
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards, I think a different caliber of player at

890
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 1: least has been over the last regular season.

891
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 3: In postseason, no, I totally agree.

892
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: Like I think I think Donovan Mitchell's biggest weakness is

893
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: game management, meaning like just kind of understanding and feeling

894
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: the flow of a game. It was actually a big

895
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: part of why I picked the Knicks over the Cavs

896
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: last year. I was just like Jalen Brunson's a better

897
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 2: game manager. He's just going to have a better feel

898
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 2: for when to be aggressive, when to be passive, so

899
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 2: on and so forth. So what I find what I

900
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: find specifically fascinating about Aunt is like I saw the

901
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: same thing in my film sessions today, Like he shot

902
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: really well in the one clutch game they had, which

903
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: was Game four clutch bass. Yeah, clutch basketball was a

904
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: huge problem for the Timberwolves in the regular season, like

905
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 2: just an absolute catastrophic problem. They were awful on both

906
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 2: ends of the floor. Like I want to say, their

907
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 2: offensive rating was like one oh four in the regular

908
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: in their in their defensive rating was like one eighteen

909
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 2: or one nineteen or something like that. But in the

910
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: last game, the game in early April, the one that

911
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 2: was like for the one seed, which, by the way,

912
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,479
Speaker 2: like home court advantage is a huge part of the series,

913
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 2: which I'll get to in a second, But the Aunt

914
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 2: had checked back into the game in the middle of

915
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: fourth quarter. Denver was on their run and they went

916
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 2: up like seven or something, and it came off of

917
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: a ball screen and Jamal Murray switched out high on

918
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 2: him and it was like twelve on the shot clock,

919
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,479
Speaker 2: and he just took like a really bad pull up three.

920
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 2: And I remember just being like, why, it's kind of

921
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: funny because, like, to me, the guy that Ant Aunt

922
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: reminds me a lot of in terms of like approach

923
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 2: is actually like Jason Tatum. But the difference between the

924
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: two is Ant's just way more of an alpha dog

925
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 2: personality and Tatum And the reason why I compare the

926
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: two of them is both of them for being guys

927
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: that are big, strong athletes, take way too many pull

928
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 2: up jumpers like Jamal Murray. Jamal Murray does it because

929
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 2: he's Jamal Murray and he's not exceptionally you know, athletic

930
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 2: for his position. But like literally Tatum and Ant, they

931
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 2: settle for so many pull up jumpers. But the biggest

932
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 2: difference between the two is Ant's got that alpha dog mentality.

933
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: And then two, for whatever reason, Ant gets into the

934
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: postseason and those pull up jumpers just go in. They

935
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: just do for whatever, for whatever reason they do when

936
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 2: he gets to the postseason. For the record, he shot

937
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 2: pretty well against Denver last year on his on his

938
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: pull up jumper. But like, yeah, I agree with you.

939
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 2: Decision making is going to be a huge piece for

940
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: Ant in this series, and that's the biggest swing factor

941
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 2: if he if he If Ant goes back to regular season,

942
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: and I think the series is over five, Like I

943
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 2: think this is gonna be I think they're gonna get

944
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: him out of here quickly. Any any hope at a

945
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: long series I think kind of hinges on ant maintaining

946
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: his current level now as far as the low of

947
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: the series, this is why I thought home court advantage

948
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 2: was so important. I do. I do believe in like

949
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 2: adjusting to a different matchup. I think Denver does this

950
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 2: to teams where you go playing like a specific type

951
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: of basketball and then you run into Denver and you're like, wow,

952
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: this is very different, you know what I mean. And

953
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 2: then in the Golden State Warriors, you play a bunch

954
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: of teams and then all of a sudden you're playing

955
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: that Golden State blender and you just get caught off guard.

956
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 2: And I think I think Minnesota has a little bit

957
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: of that on the defensive end of the floor, where

958
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: there's like a little bit of an adjustment period, And

959
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: had Minnesota got home court advantage, I think there was

960
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: actually there would have actually been a decent chance for

961
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: them to try to jump Denver early in the series

962
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: while they're adjusting. But having those first two games in

963
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: Denver I think is key because if they do happen

964
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 2: to go to oh I think the series is over

965
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 2: and I think that they have a better opportunity to

966
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,959
Speaker 2: do that at home or they have famously the best

967
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: home court advantage in in NBA history with the elevation, right,

968
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,959
Speaker 2: I think that's a big piece of this. I'm gonna

969
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: still I'm gonna go in six just because I think

970
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: a Minnesota's defense will keep every game close. But I

971
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: don't think Minnesota has that much of a chance to

972
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: win this series simply because their biggest weakness is Denver's

973
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 2: biggest strength. Their biggest weakness is execution in the half court.

974
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: Their biggest strength for Denver is execution in the half court.

975
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: I do think Minnesota's defense will keep games close, but

976
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: kind of like what happened in that late April game,

977
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 2: I just think Denver is going to out execute them

978
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: late the picking them in six. By the way, I

979
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 2: don't really like picking in the number of games. I

980
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: think it's so pointless because it's like every series has

981
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: like a weird game. It's like the Nick Sixers series

982
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: has had two of them. Denver La clutch shooting, like

983
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 2: a one clutch shot or one bad call could swing

984
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 2: a game in a playoff series. So it's more just

985
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,479
Speaker 2: how much of a chance does a team have to win?

986
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 2: And I'm more I'm more, I more or less give

987
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 2: Minnesota the same chance that the Lakers had. I just

988
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 2: think I think that their I think that their weakness

989
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: is going to be a significant problem in this series.

990
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 2: We didn't see it against Phoenix. Most of those games

991
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: weren't close in by game four, there is no pressure

992
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,479
Speaker 2: because you're up three to zero. So if you lose

993
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: that series, who cares? And so, like, I think Denver's

994
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: gonna to grind these games down into the mud at

995
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: the end, and I think it's going to shine a

996
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 2: light on some of the offensive limitations for Minnesota. And

997
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 2: so I think Denver is going to win how many games?

998
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 2: Who cares? But like, I don't really see Minnesota as

999
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 2: having that much of a chance. Before we get out

1000
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: of here, go Aheadal quickly.

1001
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: You mentioned I just I wanted to give one note

1002
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: here because I think it's interesting. But I believe in

1003
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: hyper focus. I think there are people that are hyper

1004
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: focuses or focusers, and I think Anthony Edwards, Nikolai jokicch

1005
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: and Jamal Murray are all this. And what I mean

1006
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: by that is you think about rock climbers who you know,

1007
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: on the edge of a cliff with lead life and

1008
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: death situation somehow gets them to be the best version

1009
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: of themselves and they are almost addicted to that feeling.

1010
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: When we talk, we always talk about clutches. Do these

1011
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: guys make shots? With Murray and Jokic, they make shots,

1012
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: but they also make reads, which just the mistakes go

1013
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: away in the clutch for those two guys, and I

1014
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: think it's just because whatever it is, the pressure brings

1015
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: their focus up a level.

1016
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: I think Anthony Edwards is the exact same.

1017
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: So when you talk about in the regular season clutch

1018
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: numbers this or that, I think the Timberwolves are a

1019
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: little bit better or will be a little bit better

1020
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: in the postseason as a clutch team, just on the

1021
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 1: fact that I think Anthony Edwards just shoots five percent

1022
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: better and makes five percent better reads in those moments

1023
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: because he seems to me to be a hyper focuser.

1024
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: That's super interesting. And again that kind of brings you

1025
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: back to what we talked about earlier as it pertains

1026
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 2: to which version of ANT are we getting, because like

1027
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 2: you know, the ANT, I don't think people realize what

1028
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 2: we saw from Ant in the last round, like he

1029
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 2: he didn't just beat Phoenix, he snatched their soul. Like

1030
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,240
Speaker 2: it was like the most mental and physical dominant series

1031
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: I've seen from a young player in a very long time,

1032
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 2: and I don't know about you. I've always believed in

1033
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: Aunt ceiling. I just didn't think it would happen this soon.

1034
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: I thought I thought we were two three years away

1035
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 2: from him being able to do this sort of thing.

1036
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: And like, so, I actually I have two. I have two, Like, first,

1037
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 2: takey basketball topics for you before we get out of here.

1038
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: So the first one, I got a mail bag question

1039
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: last night, and in a very reactionary way, I said

1040
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: aunt immediately, But after thinking about it more, I still

1041
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 2: think I might lean ant. But I'm curious to hear

1042
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: your perspective. Who would you have on your basketball team

1043
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: for playoff series starting tomorrow? Anthony Edwards or Jason Tatum.

1044
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: Oh, Anthony Edwards for me, this one is actually not

1045
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: so it was for me too, and I'm for and look,

1046
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: I probably am a little too low on Tatum. But

1047
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: you said something, and guys use the language alpha this

1048
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: or that, I almost feel like it's something misleading as well.

1049
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: I almost like hyper focusing. Anthony Edwards one is a

1050
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: super competitor, that's clear. I think he has charisma, which

1051
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: is weirdly important in basketball because everybody's looking at you

1052
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: when you're the guy, and some guys have the charisma

1053
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: to be like, guys, I got it, don't worry, I

1054
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: got it. And I think Aunt is that guy, and

1055
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: I think Tatum's not. Tatum's a great player, but I

1056
00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: don't know he's a guy that in the last thirty

1057
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: second you look at Murray got the ball with sixteen

1058
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: seconds left in Game five of that series. Nineteen thousand

1059
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: people in the arena, everybody knew he was. If he

1060
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: gets a clean look, it's going in, no question about it.

1061
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: And I think that Tatum, for as great as he

1062
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: is and is just a clearly to me in a

1063
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: different caliber in that one quality, and that's such an

1064
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: important quality when you're the leader of.

1065
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 2: About II one hundred percent agree. And I said the

1066
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 2: same thing last night, like I just think he's so

1067
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: much more of a dominant personality, but even just on

1068
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: a basketball level, like part of the reason why Tatum

1069
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 2: I think struggles in late game situations to try to

1070
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: generate shots. I don't think Tatum is big and strong,

1071
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 2: and he's very athletic, but he doesn't have a great

1072
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 2: first step, and so he actually he's actually not particularly

1073
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: great at getting to his spots and Anthony Edwards, Anthony Edwards,

1074
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: I think is one of those supreme, transcendently great generational

1075
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 2: athletes that can consistently get to stops and one of

1076
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: the get to spots and the things that I thought

1077
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: actually manifests in the in the numbers on this on

1078
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,479
Speaker 2: this front of things is so far in Anthony Edwards's career,

1079
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 2: every single playoff run he's been over sixty percent true shooting,

1080
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 2: and this year he's at sixty five percent true shooting.

1081
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 2: Tatum has never had a playoff run over sixty percent

1082
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: true shooting. Now, obviously totally different sample sizes, and Tatum

1083
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 2: has made it to later rounds where the pressure in

1084
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 2: the quality of competition goes up. So I'm not trying

1085
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 2: to call that apples to apples, but I do think

1086
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: Ant's efficiency in the postseason is a really strong indicator

1087
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 2: of his athleticism being kind of like a differentiator at

1088
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 2: this level. I think he's got I think he's got

1089
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 2: defenders so much on their heels worried about the drive

1090
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: that he can just get great separation on these on

1091
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 2: these pulp jumpers. All right, Second one, because I'm gonna

1092
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: eventually get in trouble for that last one. As soon

1093
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: as Celtics fans get ahold of it, we'll see. Secondly,

1094
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 2: I've been getting reamed on Twitter all day today because

1095
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 2: I said I think Jokic has the highest floor that

1096
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: I've ever seen in a basketball player. And basically my

1097
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 2: reasoning was simple, Like Lebron, I think is a very

1098
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 2: high floor player too, And to me, high floor is like,

1099
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: on a night in, night out, basis, how reliably great

1100
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 2: is this person? Forget about like variants, just on a

1101
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: night in, night out, basis, what are the dependable things

1102
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 2: that this player brings to the table. And like counter

1103
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 2: examples are guys like PG and James Harden where it's like,

1104
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, in really big games, when the intensity

1105
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: and physicality go up a level, it's almost like the opposite.

1106
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 2: It's almost like they can't impact winning the way that

1107
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 2: they typically do. And for me, the differentiator for Jokich

1108
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 2: is he's so big that, like, even when he's not

1109
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: as engaged defensively as he needs to be, he's just

1110
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 2: dominant on the defensive glass. And we literally saw for

1111
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 2: the Suns and Lakers how not being able to close

1112
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 2: out defensive possessions with the rebound can cost you a series.

1113
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: Gordon over to Lebron literally was a huge part of

1114
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 2: them winning that game five. The Timberwolves grabbed forty percent

1115
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: of their own misses against the Sun, So we know

1116
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 2: that defensive rebounding brings value. And then on the other

1117
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 2: end of the floor, I just think Jokic can generate

1118
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 2: quality shots on a possession by possession basis, regardless of

1119
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 2: whether or not he's personally hitting. That I think makes

1120
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: his floor extremely high. And so do you agree with me?

1121
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 2: And who would you if you had to come up

1122
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:12,919
Speaker 2: with a guy who would compete with him for that spot?

1123
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: Who would it be?

1124
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 3: Such a good question.

1125
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: And here's how I look at it with Lebron because everybody,

1126
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, the thing with Lebron and the game is evolved.

1127
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: But the thing with Lebron was he makes his teammates better.

1128
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: I think that is only mostly true, not fully true.

1129
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 1: There were players that he did not make better, that

1130
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: didn't fit the Lebron system. You know, Okay, Kevin Love

1131
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: maybe had to sacrifice more than he received from Lebron

1132
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: and Bosh and some of these other guys spot up shooters,

1133
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: roleplay guys, that had a more limited role. I think

1134
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: Jokic is a multiplier, a rare example of a multiplier.

1135
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: What I mean by that is one of his best felt.

1136
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: He's a great individual player, scorer, all those different things.

1137
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: He's great at it. But one of the things about

1138
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: yoke is that whatever your skill set is, and it

1139
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, he's played with a wide variety of players.

1140
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, he has a skill that fits that

1141
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: in a way that not even Lebron necessarily had that.

1142
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 1: Lebron had his style and you fit to it, He's

1143
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: gonna make you better. But with Jokic, it's oh you,

1144
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: Reggie Jackson, you run this style of offense, KCP, you

1145
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: do this, Aaron Gordon, you do this. Whatever it is.

1146
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: He molds his game to it, and I think the

1147
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: same is true. Then when you talk about what defense

1148
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: do you throw at him, whatever defense you throw, he

1149
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: has something in his tool bag to mold around that

1150
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: and to form himself around that in a way that's

1151
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: even different than Lebron. Lebron more dominant, more overwhelming, more

1152
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: of a sledgehammer and the things he was capable of doing.

1153
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: But Jokic is like a multi multi tool. There's a

1154
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: tool in his bag for every situation. And to me,

1155
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: I like the way you framed it. I think knowing

1156
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 1: who the greatest player of all time is or ranking players,

1157
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 1: to me, it's so fun to do. It's a fund

1158
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: mental exercise. But at the end of the day, it's impossible.

1159
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: It's not logical to get that. But when you talk

1160
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 1: about floors, there is more logic to it, because I do.

1161
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: I think that Jokic fits with every two man game

1162
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: you could possibly throw at him. Throw a player out there,

1163
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: Aleen Brunson, Luka, Doncic, Damian Lillard. Jokic has something in

1164
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: his game that would fit perfectly with those guys, and

1165
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,399
Speaker 1: that's why I would agree with you about him being

1166
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: this floor y.

1167
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, one of the things that Lebron

1168
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: fans were saying on Twitter today is like, oh, well,

1169
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 2: his athleticism gives him an extremely high floor. And I

1170
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 2: do agree within the context of the post. I do

1171
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: agree within the context of the postseason. But like trust me,

1172
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 2: as a Lebron fan, I watched just about every game

1173
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 2: he played over the course of his career, and basically

1174
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 2: from about twenty fifteen, which by the way, he was

1175
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 2: thirty It's not like we're talking about his tail end

1176
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 2: of his prime. From about twenty fifteen to this day,

1177
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 2: Lebron was an inconsistent effort guy in the regular season

1178
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 2: And it doesn't matter how athletic he is if he's

1179
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 2: not got it, if he doesn't have his foot down

1180
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,439
Speaker 2: to the medal, you know, a pedal to the metal,

1181
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 2: so to speak. Right, So, like, one of the things

1182
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 2: that's interesting to me about jokicch is like it doesn't

1183
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: matter how much he's engaging himself physically, Like as soon

1184
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 2: as you get in the half court, he's just giant

1185
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 2: that and that makes it so that even when he's

1186
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: not necessarily sprinting and moving as much as he normally does,

1187
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 2: there's a certain like physical imposition he has over the

1188
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 2: eighty two that Lebron didn't have in terms of his

1189
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 2: night and night out impact and so like again, like

1190
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 2: in terms of day one of the regular season to

1191
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 2: Game seven of the NBA Finals and everything in between,

1192
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,439
Speaker 2: and who had the most consistent high floor of any

1193
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 2: individual player that I've seen. I I lean towards Jokich.

1194
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 2: I I just I think and size.

1195
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 1: And size matters because I think about Draymond Green the

1196
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 1: greatest small ball center in the history of basketball, most

1197
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: likely rendered useless against Jokic defensively. I mean, by his

1198
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: own admission, you know, has nothing for him, And so

1199
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: Lebron's athleticism I think is canceled in many ways by

1200
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: Jokic's size, at least on the offensive end, because Jokica size,

1201
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: you need somebody at least six to eleven. Even throwing

1202
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:51,959
Speaker 1: a guy six ' ten at him, like a shng

1203
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: goon or something. Even throwing a guy that's just a

1204
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: little bit below true center size, it's just it's hopeless.

1205
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 1: And the same way that if you threw an unathletic

1206
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: guy on Lebron.

1207
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 2: And again, the defensive rebounding piece, Like I like so

1208
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:05,959
Speaker 2: many of the Lebron fans were like, he's not nearly

1209
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 2: as good defensively, and it's like, yeah, I agree, And

1210
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 2: Lebron's prime obviously was a much better defensive player. But like,

1211
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 2: there is a floor that comes from the ability to

1212
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 2: close out every single defensive possession with the defensive rebound.

1213
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: Like again, as until you've rooted for a team that

1214
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 2: can't close out possessions, you don't really realize how valuable

1215
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 2: that is. But it is so immensely valuable and the

1216
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 2: dead giveaway and the last thing I'll say about it.

1217
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,760
Speaker 2: After Game five, Lakers were doing a lot of damage

1218
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 2: and pick and roll ad was doing like over the

1219
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 2: course of the series, Like the Lakers had some success

1220
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 2: attacking Jokic, but Mike Michael Malone gave Jokic the defensive

1221
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: player of the game necklace or you know, chain thing,

1222
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 2: and he immediately said, eighteen defensive rebounds. You get the thing.

1223
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 2: And I was like, he gets it, Like he just

1224
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 2: gets it. He understands, he understands it like this because

1225
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 2: like I can just yeah, I can't tell you how

1226
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 2: many times in that series I'd watch a shot go

1227
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 2: up and I'd watch ad or Ruey crash and they

1228
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 2: just couldn't get it. They just couldn't get it, Like

1229
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 2: it just you weren't getting it, Like it was like

1230
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,320
Speaker 2: and I watched those same guys do that Damna rushes

1231
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,919
Speaker 2: yet and like it almost they almost look like they're

1232
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 2: completely overmatched when they're trying to go over the top

1233
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: of him to get the rebound.

1234
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: But Adam going and by the way, defense and offense

1235
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: are combined, so the scariest guy Lebron's the greatest transition

1236
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: player probably ever. Yokes right there, he grabs the rebound,

1237
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: and the gap between defense and offense blurs, because all

1238
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 1: of a sudden, now it's like, oh crap that not

1239
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: only are we have to get back on defense, but

1240
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,720
Speaker 1: here comes the seven foot point guard full speed ahead.

1241
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: And conditioning, by the way, also a part of athleticism.

1242
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: Athleticism everybody knows this, but this is another one where

1243
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 1: we overlook it. Jokic wears Anthony Davis down, he wears

1244
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: DeAndre Ayton, that he wears every center down because of

1245
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: his athleticism, which is in his case is endurance.

1246
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 2: And one percent agree that. I can't tell you how

1247
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,720
Speaker 2: many times I did like a tweet with some film

1248
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 2: clips where I'm like, here's Jokich beating ad down the

1249
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 2: floor again, Like here's all these different things, you know.

1250
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 2: I remember a game a couple of years ago where

1251
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 2: Denver won in Philly. It was one of the first

1252
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,720
Speaker 2: like kind of Embid versus Jokich showdowns, and I remember

1253
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 2: like like everyone was looking at the stat sheet and

1254
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 2: embiid had these massive numbers, but then Jokic literally won

1255
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 2: the game. This was the game I don't know if

1256
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 2: you remember this was the game where Bones Highland got

1257
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 2: hot from three? Do you remember this one? Yeah? Okay,

1258
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 2: so and he had like two or three like thirty

1259
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 2: footers in the second half if I remember correctly, But like,

1260
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 2: uh uh, But Jokic was dominating that game because he

1261
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: understood that Philly was a bad transition defense, and it

1262
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 2: was just cleaning up the defensive glass and throwing kick

1263
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 2: ahead passes and just literally those two things generated enough

1264
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 2: offense for Denver to get a win. But Adam, this

1265
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 2: was fun. We could have talked all day, of course,

1266
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 2: but I sincerely appreciate you taking the time. Why don't

1267
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 2: you tell everybody what you're working on these days?

1268
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate you having me on Love the channel,

1269
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: Love what you're doing. I'm on all NBA podcasts four

1270
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: times a week with Tim Legler on YouTube and the

1271
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: DNBR Nuggets. If you want more Nuggets fun postgame analysis,

1272
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: we go live on DNBR Nuggets on YouTube right after that.

1273
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 2: Guys, make sure you get over there and support those channels.

1274
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 2: As always, we sincerely appreciate you for supporting us. This

1275
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 2: is going to be a really fun series and looking

1276
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 2: forward to it. Everybody, have a good night. We will

1277
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 2: see you tomorrow morning.

1278
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: The volume