WEBVTT - How Do I Find A Good Church? 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.560 All right, welcome to the podcast. Got my buddy Marshall 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:20.880 repeat guests over and over. Yeah, and every once in 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.480 a while Marshall's one of our pastors at a Mayas 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.960 and Georgetown and everyone saw people that hear this podcast 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:28.640 actually show up. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:30.360 Yeah, it's been cool to meet some of those people 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.839 and have conversations with what the Lord's doing in their life. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:35.320 It's been really encouraging. 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.800 Yeah, it is. It really is. And so sometimes people 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:46.000 will going to visit in laws or whatever they're doing 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.159 that they kind of make a little effort on a 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.599 Sunday to come through and see it at a mais. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:52.600 Yeah. 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:53.680 Yeah, it's always a good feeling. 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.240 Yeah, especially after service when they say they were encouraged 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.000 by it all and then it wasn't weird or anything. 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.080 It's always helpful. Yeah. Yeah, it's been really cool hearing 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:02.800 those stories though. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.160 Yeah, So if you're one of those people that have 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:10.800 done that, just know that it encourages me. There were 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.800 actually there was a couple last Sunday. I'm assuming you 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:14.560 spoke with them. 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.200 Oh I didn't. Another member told me about it, but 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:19.440 I didn't get a chance to talk to them. 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.240 So that member that you're talking about she was like, hey, 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.160 don't I don't want to bother you. But these people 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.040 came and they heard the podcast, and I was like, 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:31.800 that's never bothered me. Yeah, I'll wait all day just 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:32.280 to hear that. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:32.840 Yeah. 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.200 So to those people that told you, hey, I hope 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.720 it's not weird, man, it's it's it's really encouraging. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:44.640 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, especially when people were coming. So we 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.840 had a couple weeks ago some family members that flew 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.600 into San Antonio actually to business and family and drove 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:53.440 up just come check out the church. 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:54.960 It's a long drive. 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.280 It is a long drive, but they had friends in Georgetown, 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:58.880 so they got to hang out with some friends too. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.040 But it was just an encouraging to get to meet 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.080 them and hear a little bit about their story and 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:06.720 encourage them on their way. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.840 So yeah, so I think that that kind of we're 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:11.440 going to get into the questions and that's what we 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.000 do here. If you have a question, email me podcast 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.120 at grangersmith dot com. But before we get into our 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.400 first question, I think that kind of brings up a 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.519 good point that if people are traveling to Amais said 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.040 they hear us on here, they want to come to Georgetown. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.280 That's great, But what we really what's even more encouraging, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.799 is that they find a good church in their own hometown, 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:38.720 their own city. And I'm assuming most people, most people 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.440 that would listen to this podcast and call themselves a Christian, 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:46.280 have something that they consider to be a home church 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.880 or a local church, or the church that they go 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:54.600 to on Easter or Christmas at least. So let's talk 0:02:54.639 --> 0:03:00.000 about what makes a good church. And if someone is listening, 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.360 thing perhaps in thinking I'm not quite sure if my 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.440 church is good or not, or I would like to 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:08.400 look for a church, but I don't really know where 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:10.160 to start. I don't know what to look for, what 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.760 to look for. I think it would be helpful if 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.280 you and I got on this podcast and over several 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:21.800 episodes we answer questions like we normally do, and we 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.359 don't have to be consistent about it. We could just 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.120 lay it out of the next six months or whatever. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.000 But every once in a while when you come in, 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:31.959 we'll give a small aspect about what to look for 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:38.320 in a good church, or also in the same way 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:45.240 to how to identify a bad church. There's nuance to 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:51.160 all of this, and there would be things that would 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.880 instantly identify a church that you should leave immediately. There 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.480 would be those things, and we can get into those things. 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:00.520 But here's something I wanted to bring up because in 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.240 all of my travels, as I go and speak at 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.120 some of these churches, things that I see there is 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.920 a there is one nuance that I have a lot, 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.600 a lot of close friends do that I personally am 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:19.440 am convicted against doing, and that is having multiple services 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:23.640 on a Sunday. Multiple Let me let me refrain, rephrase that, 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:29.479 multiple identical services, meaning you're you're repeating the same exact 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:34.920 service two, three, four, five, even six times on a Sunday. 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.039 And I know that a lot of people listening right 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:45.160 now attend a church that does that, and that's just 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.760 because of this year number of churches that do it. 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.400 I've attended a church like that. I'm sure you have. 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.359 I've I've spoken to many of those, and I know 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.679 that you've probably spoken at some of those church as well. 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:07.279 So what could we say to people that are considering 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.160 a church, or or looking at their own church and 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.880 wondering what makes a healthy church and they're in a 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.839 church that has multiple services? Where do we start with that? 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.960 Yeah? Well, first we start with it's not a gospel issue. 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.160 So it's not one of those things that if your 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.280 if your church has the church you go to has 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.760 multiple services, you should leave today. Don't go back, but 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.760 look back. That's right question you need to ask. 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:34.680 That's why I said that there are things that you 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.000 would identify and go we need to leave right away, 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:38.480 and this is not one. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.360 Of them, right, But it is something to think through, 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.800 but something to think through. So really you can think 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:50.680 about it in multiple ways. Is so a minute ago 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.000 you said identical services. So I'll hit on the ones 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.000 that have different services first because I think it's a 0:05:56.000 --> 0:06:00.800 little bit easier to talk about if the if a 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.919 church has multiple services where the services look different. The 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.320 sermons might be the same, but you might have a 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:12.400 different style of music. You might have a certain type 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.200 of dress, a tire is appropriate for this service, and 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.600 then a certain dress attires appropriate for this service, and 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.680 don't ever mix those up. The danger there is you're 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:29.479 feeding into consumerism. So church now becomes what do you 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.720 want out of church and what fits you most, and 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.800 not what is the Bible? Say churches, because it's really 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:38.760 at the core with this question is is what is 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:43.760 the church? Because that will dictate how you think through services, 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.720 how you think through preaching, how you think through your 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.640 responsibility as a church member. All those things play into 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:55.279 whether or not multiple services is good and helpful. Doesn't 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.760 mean they're evil, but again things you want to think through, 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.560 and so I would discourage any church from doing multiple 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:06.360 services where they have different versions. Most common I think 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.520 is you have a service that's traditional and then you 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:14.440 have a service that's contemporary. Again, you're you're dividing the 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.400 church based on preferences at that point, Well, this group 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.800 over here prefers this type of music, prefers this kind 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.200 of feel in the service. This group prefers this type 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.080 of feel and this type of look and this type 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.760 of music. So you're really pushing in on people. Your 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:31.320 preferences are what matter most here, not what the Bible 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.600 says we should be doing together. Because if you look 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:36.960 in scripture, specifically the New Testament, every time it's talking 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.080 about the church is talking about this gathering of people together. 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.280 There's no differentiation of well, this group means at this 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.000 time to do this. This group at this time means 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.120 to do this, and that mean the word itself, right, 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:54.280 ecclesia clesia means assembly. So there's this understanding that these 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.880 groups of people are meeting together, assembling together to worship 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:02.120 the Lord. And so you want to have this understanding 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.920 of Sunday service is not about me going there for myself. 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.960 Me attending Sunday service, yes, benefits me spiritually. I'm getting 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:15.360 fed spirit by the word. I'm communing with my other 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.440 brothers and sisters in Christ. But also me gathering on 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.080 Sunday is for the benefit of brothers and sisters in Christ. 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:22.960 So therefore I need to know my brothers and sisters 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.960 in Christ that I've covenanted with through membership. And so 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.160 this is why membership plays role in it. Because if 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:34.960 I think, if my thought is well, membership just means 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.520 that I'm connected to this church somehow, then it doesn't 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.600 really matter how many services the church has, because I 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.840 have no responsibility. So what is the responsibility of the members? 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.520 Why be a member of a church? And we would 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.600 argue you're a member of a church because you are 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.800 agreeing with other people, you're covenanting with them. I want 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:54.920 to be held accountable by you, and I want to 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.320 hold you accountable to your walking with Christ. And so 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:02.280 that's the mutual agreement. We are making with one another. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:04.280 I need to know you. And if You're going to 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:06.040 a ten thirty service and I'm going to a nine 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:10.800 am service and we never worshiped together, then it's going 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.520 to be really hard to do that. I remember in 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.800 college I went to a church that had three services 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.000 on Sunday morning, two on Sunday night, and one on 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:22.160 Saturday night, and eventually had two on Saturday night. And 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.960 I would meet people out in the city and find 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:27.520 out they were members of the same church of me, 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:29.280 and I'd never seen them, and I was going there 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.280 for at that point a year and a half, and 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.720 so it was just insane to me that I was 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:35.640 meeting person after personally like, oh, yeah, I'm a member 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.920 of that church too, and I'm thinking, I've literally never 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.160 even seen you before, not that I just don't know 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:43.760 your name or I don't know how long you've been 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.280 I just I literally have never seen you, and we 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.040 claim to be members of the same church. Like that. 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.320 That's a problem, I think because of what Scripture calls 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.800 us to do as members of churches. 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.240 So let's talk about the different kinds of multiple services. 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.439 And I think you hit on two of them. One 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:05.160 of them is the identical services. You're just recreating the 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.680 same exact thing with the same worship songs, the same room, 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:12.800 the same building, the same pastor the same message. You're 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.839 just replicating it over and over, and we would call 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:21.559 that wrong for the reasons you just named. There are 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.320 churches I go and speak at and I will tell 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.120 them this. So this is not like I'm this not 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.680 a secret that I'm just revealing on the podcast. I 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.960 will tell the pastors when I go, and I don't 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.559 give them like a fierce rebuke. I just say, would 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.800 you at home, tell your family that we're going to 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.559 split the family and some of the family's going to 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.120 eat at six o'clock and some of the family's going 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.640 to eat at six forty five, and we're going to 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.920 make the same meal. Now everyone would say no, that's 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.400 that would be weird. So that would be the identical services. 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:02.080 And then the different service is that are modern. Some 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.640 people call it contemporary, some people call it the other 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:09.559 one traditional or classic. I've heard the name classic. So 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.520 that's the same thing that's splitting the different styles of people. 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.439 As the grandparents eat at six o'clock and then the 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.520 kids eat at six forty five, it does the same thing. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:25.520 And really what that is that's legitimately two churches. It's 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:31.360 two churches. But here's a nuance when I think multiple 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.319 services is okay, and it's when you have a Sunday 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:38.199 evening that's the same people that came Sunday morning, you're 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.120 coming Sunday evening and it's a different message, a different style. 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.640 Maybe it's more of a prayer night. Maybe you have 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:49.520 a shorter sermon on something else, an opportunity for different 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.439 people to engage in different ways, different songs, but it's 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.000 the same people. It's the same family. That means the 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.959 family had breakfast together. Now the family's having dinner together. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.360 But it's the same family in the same room. So 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:04.760 these are things that I think that that's a way 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.800 that you could have multiple services and it's okay. So 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:12.640 don't hear me in that way, but tell me about 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:17.960 why if you have a church that is that maybe 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:22.240 we should go back, because people are already thinking, well, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.480 our church is its just busting at the seams. There's 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.840 no there's no more room, there's no other way to 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.880 do this but have three services and we might have 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.880 to move to four. But there's there's an easy solution 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:39.440 to this, and I shouldn't say an easy solution, but 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.199 there is a practical solution to this. There's a biblical 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.120 solution to this, and so let's talk about that. 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.640 A little bit. Yeah, so I think you're talking about 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:54.920 church planting, yes, right, like, because that I get the argument. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:56.600 You know, there's just a time that we're running out 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.079 of seats. What are we going to do? I mean, 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.160 in some sense we're kind of facing that problem right 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.880 now our church of what are we going to do 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.840 because it's getting harder to have as many people in 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:11.480 the room. So I'll preface this by saying, also my 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:19.800 personal conviction on it is, while I'm convictionally against multiple services, 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:21.920 there could be a season where a church needs to 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.719 go to multiple services in order to buy time for 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.880 something else. And by season I means something short, you know, 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.319 six to twelve months. I have a buddy right now 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:37.520 who's at their church. They literally they had put every 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.720 single chair they could fit in their meeting space in there, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.680 and then there was some standing room only in the back. 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.360 They have gone to two services with a time limit 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.760 of eight months on it. So they're giving themselves eight 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.600 months to either find a new space or figure out 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.040 a way to add to their current building. But eight 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.839 months they're stopping it and potentially we'll plant a church 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.680 out of it if they can't figure out the space. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.360 So before we go to church planning or finding a 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.480 new building, let me add on to that as well, 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.880 because I was going to go here too. But Chad, 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:12.320 who Chad's on this podcast multiple times, he was sent 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:17.240 out and took a senior pastor role in Montana. They 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.720 had three services, So I'm going to preach for him 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.360 in October and it's two on Sunday. So we all 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.240 have Chad this podcast. We love Chad so and that's 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.240 also what I'm trying to say too, is that this 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.200 is we're not trying to speak out against any of 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.480 our friends. We're just saying for people that are looking 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.560 for a church, what could be encouraging to you. Chad 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.800 came in and immediately he said, I'm going to work 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.560 towards getting rid of the Saturday night service first. So 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.400 it took one step at a time as he took 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.840 over a very old church that's been doing things for 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:52.000 a lot of years the same way. First, his first 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.400 really goal was I'm going to get rid of the 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.120 Saturday service and move us to Sunday. Once we get 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.000 just to Sunday, I'm going to try to get us 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.200 to one service. But that's something he's working toward and 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.800 that's the goal. So that's that's one nuance when like, 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:08.440 similar to what you said. 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.640 Yeah, and to that point, most of the churches that 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.560 I've engaged with that have multiple services, let's say they 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.160 have three, they really could do with just two. 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:18.960 Yes, right, I said. 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:20.920 So some of the motive behind it too is well, 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.880 if we have extra space, meaning another service where there's 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:27.880 more seats, we can we can still grow faster, or 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.720 we have room for growth, you could say that. But 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:37.360 to back to the point of church planting, that's the 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:42.760 normal pattern of when the church gets too big. Now 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:44.600 that that's not to say a church can't get us 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.720 a bigger space, because so when we talk about this 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.880 in our membership process, when people are joining the church, 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.080 they see the room's getting pretty packed. What's y'all's plan. 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:56.200 So this is where we get to talk about how 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.720 we don't plan to have multiple services. That's we're trying 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.600 to prevent that, but that we could potentially add onto 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.960 the building or get a different building or something like that. 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.040 And so the next follow up question is always, well, 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.600 how big is too big? When do you cut it 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.440 off and say we're not growing this space anymore, We're 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.280 we're straight planting. And I think that question is answered 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.880 differently based on philosophies and personalities. So for me or 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:25.160 for us as elders of our church, too big would 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.120 be when we can't act adequately care for the members 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.720 that the Lord has put underneath us, that is entrusted 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.080 to us, because you know Hebrews thirteen, we have to 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.440 give an account for every soul that has covenanted at 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:37.920 that church. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.240 And so, which I think is a different talk too. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.720 I think we could do an entire podcast on just 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:43.800 that subject as well. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.160 Yeah, and so because of texts like that, and then 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.920 even Acts twenty where Paul's writing to the Ephesian elders 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.400 about how they're supposed to care for all the flock, 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.600 all of the flock among them, he's using language of 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.280 your members, know you, you know your members, and you're 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.840 caring for each of them. And so for us, too 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:05.840 big would be when we as elders go, there's no 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.040 way we can care for all these people. There's no 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.480 way for us to know them. They don't know us, 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.360 and there's just no way we can adequately adequately care 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.679 for their soul, of which we have to give an 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.160 account to the Lord for we're too big. We're getting 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:25.480 too big, So let's plant people out. And planting is 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.119 hard man, not even logistically. I mean, we plant it 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:29.800 out of the church we were in. But it's hard 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:34.080 because the way we understand church planting is it's not 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.399 just sending out two guys and saying, hey, we bless 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.720 you in your church planting process. Hope it goes well. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:42.760 Let us know if you need any advice or anything. 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.240 Praise the Lord. Look, we've planted a church. We sent 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.439 these two guys out. That could be done. That's not 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.840 sinful to do it that way. But what we would 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:51.960 love is to be able to send a couple elders 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:57.720 out with thirty to sixty people at least and send 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.720 money with them and help them find a place and 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.960 send you know, speakers or MIC's, whatever we can to 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.320 encourage them and do whatever we could to show we 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.639 really want this thing to succeed if the Lord wills, 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.480 and so that means you're giving up a lot of 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:17.760 good members you're giving up money, you're you're you're taking 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:23.440 a hit membership wise. But the church and the leadership 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.080 have to be okay with that because it's not about 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.560 building our name. So I mean, you say the church 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.439 name on here. I don't really care if people know 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.840 who our church is. As long as we are doing 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.879 faithful gospel work where the gospel is spreading and we 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.439 are doing Kingdom advancement work. That's what I care about. 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:48.320 And so if if and I've heard the argument before, 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.720 what if people just like the preaching here, and so 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.040 if you plant something out like they're really kind of 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.560 sacrificing your preaching, I think that's I think that's a 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.399 bad thing. I think that's a bad argue. You're building 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.520 it around potentially one man in his speaking ability. What 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:06.919 happens when he retires, What happens if he dies in 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:11.520 a plane accident or car crash or God forbid, he 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.560 as a moral failing has to get out of ministry. 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.080 Now the church is what do we do? We've built 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:20.000 around this guy, And so there's other stuff you can 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:21.919 do to kind of help the congregation not feel that 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:23.719 way about a specific things that we've tried to put 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:28.080 in place, So it's not built around me. But if 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.760 the idea going in is we want to plant other 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.840 churches because we know the Lord will grow stuff. We 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.800 grow churches. That's what the Lord does. And it's not 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:38.919 about making our name big. It's not about being the 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.560 biggest church in town. We want to send people out 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.719 to the communities in which they live. And so if 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:46.959 people are driving forty five minutes to come to our 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.920 church regularly, that's not like a win for us. It's 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:51.960 not like wow, look at using people are willing to 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.600 drive forty five minutes to come to us. Our goals 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:56.920 to plant a church in that area so they can 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:01.000 be gathering in their community, worshiping together and serving their 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:05.399 community in tangible needs and with the Gospel and not 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.359 having to drive forty five minutes to meet on a 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.919 Sunday morning with with brothers and sisters in Christ. And 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.199 so we want to equip people to go out and 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:19.359 do that. So we see in Scripture, I mean, you 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.920 see Paul just encouraging the planting of churches. Paul tells 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.640 Titus this and Crete says, you know what we left, 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.119 what was left disorganized? Organize it. And he's taught, he's 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.080 telling him start churches. He's not telling him to start 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:36.080 a single church. He's saying start churches and get elders 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.240 in those churches and help help those churches get started 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.560 in a place where there are no churches. And so 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.600 that's something we want to see as churches giving of 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:50.080 themselves for Kingdom advancement, not building themselves up. And so 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.879 it does tie back to things like you know, you 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:56.080 asked how as if I'm thinking about finding a church, 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.760 what are some things that I want in a church. 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.400 You want a church where you have access to your pastors. 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.960 It's a super discouraging thing to me when people come 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.399 to our church and visit and it's just a shock 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:10.760 to them that they have the ability to talk to 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.600 me after service because I'm standing in the in the 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:15.159 four year and the at room, whatever you want to 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.480 call it, after service just talking to people. They're like, 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.120 I've been a member at my church for seven eight 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.120 years and I've not once had a conversation with our pastor. 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:28.840 And that's not an attack against that guy. I think 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.160 there's some situations where the church just get so big 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:32.320 it's really hard to do that. 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.880 And not only meeting in the in the four year 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.480 after but coming to you and saying I need to 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:40.800 speak with the pastor this week. 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:43.960 Yeah. Yeah, And so all of our pastors, every member 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:50.560 has every pastor's contact info. If somebody reaches out for 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.520 counseling or for a meeting with one of the pastors, 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:56.600