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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the podcast. Got my buddy Marshall

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Speaker 1: repeat guests over and over. Yeah, and every once in

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Speaker 1: a while Marshall's one of our pastors at a Mayas

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Speaker 1: and Georgetown and everyone saw people that hear this podcast

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Speaker 1: actually show up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been cool to meet some of those people

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Speaker 2: and have conversations with what the Lord's doing in their life.

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Speaker 2: It's been really encouraging.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It really is. And so sometimes people

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Speaker 1: will going to visit in laws or whatever they're doing

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Speaker 1: that they kind of make a little effort on a

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Speaker 1: Sunday to come through and see it at a mais.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always a good feeling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, especially after service when they say they were encouraged

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Speaker 2: by it all and then it wasn't weird or anything.

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Speaker 2: It's always helpful. Yeah. Yeah, it's been really cool hearing

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Speaker 2: those stories though.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you're one of those people that have

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Speaker 1: done that, just know that it encourages me. There were

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Speaker 1: actually there was a couple last Sunday. I'm assuming you

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Speaker 1: spoke with them.

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Speaker 2: Oh I didn't. Another member told me about it, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't get a chance to talk to them.

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Speaker 1: So that member that you're talking about she was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: don't I don't want to bother you. But these people

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Speaker 1: came and they heard the podcast, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: that's never bothered me. Yeah, I'll wait all day just

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Speaker 1: to hear that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So to those people that told you, hey, I hope

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Speaker 1: it's not weird, man, it's it's it's really encouraging.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, especially when people were coming. So we

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Speaker 2: had a couple weeks ago some family members that flew

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Speaker 2: into San Antonio actually to business and family and drove

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Speaker 2: up just come check out the church.

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Speaker 1: It's a long drive.

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Speaker 2: It is a long drive, but they had friends in Georgetown,

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Speaker 2: so they got to hang out with some friends too.

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Speaker 2: But it was just an encouraging to get to meet

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Speaker 2: them and hear a little bit about their story and

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Speaker 2: encourage them on their way.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so I think that that kind of we're

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Speaker 1: going to get into the questions and that's what we

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Speaker 1: do here. If you have a question, email me podcast

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Speaker 1: at grangersmith dot com. But before we get into our

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Speaker 1: first question, I think that kind of brings up a

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Speaker 1: good point that if people are traveling to Amais said

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Speaker 1: they hear us on here, they want to come to Georgetown.

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Speaker 1: That's great, But what we really what's even more encouraging,

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Speaker 1: is that they find a good church in their own hometown,

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Speaker 1: their own city. And I'm assuming most people, most people

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Speaker 1: that would listen to this podcast and call themselves a Christian,

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Speaker 1: have something that they consider to be a home church

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Speaker 1: or a local church, or the church that they go

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Speaker 1: to on Easter or Christmas at least. So let's talk

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Speaker 1: about what makes a good church. And if someone is listening,

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Speaker 1: thing perhaps in thinking I'm not quite sure if my

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Speaker 1: church is good or not, or I would like to

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Speaker 1: look for a church, but I don't really know where

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Speaker 1: to start. I don't know what to look for, what

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Speaker 1: to look for. I think it would be helpful if

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Speaker 1: you and I got on this podcast and over several

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Speaker 1: episodes we answer questions like we normally do, and we

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Speaker 1: don't have to be consistent about it. We could just

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Speaker 1: lay it out of the next six months or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But every once in a while when you come in,

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Speaker 1: we'll give a small aspect about what to look for

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Speaker 1: in a good church, or also in the same way

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Speaker 1: to how to identify a bad church. There's nuance to

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Speaker 1: all of this, and there would be things that would

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Speaker 1: instantly identify a church that you should leave immediately. There

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Speaker 1: would be those things, and we can get into those things.

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Speaker 1: But here's something I wanted to bring up because in

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Speaker 1: all of my travels, as I go and speak at

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Speaker 1: some of these churches, things that I see there is

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Speaker 1: a there is one nuance that I have a lot,

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Speaker 1: a lot of close friends do that I personally am

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Speaker 1: am convicted against doing, and that is having multiple services

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Speaker 1: on a Sunday. Multiple Let me let me refrain, rephrase that,

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Speaker 1: multiple identical services, meaning you're you're repeating the same exact

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Speaker 1: service two, three, four, five, even six times on a Sunday.

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Speaker 1: And I know that a lot of people listening right

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Speaker 1: now attend a church that does that, and that's just

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Speaker 1: because of this year number of churches that do it.

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Speaker 1: I've attended a church like that. I'm sure you have.

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Speaker 1: I've I've spoken to many of those, and I know

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Speaker 1: that you've probably spoken at some of those church as well.

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Speaker 1: So what could we say to people that are considering

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Speaker 1: a church, or or looking at their own church and

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Speaker 1: wondering what makes a healthy church and they're in a

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Speaker 1: church that has multiple services? Where do we start with that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, first we start with it's not a gospel issue.

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Speaker 2: So it's not one of those things that if your

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Speaker 2: if your church has the church you go to has

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Speaker 2: multiple services, you should leave today. Don't go back, but

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Speaker 2: look back. That's right question you need to ask.

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Speaker 1: That's why I said that there are things that you

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Speaker 1: would identify and go we need to leave right away,

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Speaker 1: and this is not one.

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Speaker 2: Of them, right, But it is something to think through,

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Speaker 2: but something to think through. So really you can think

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Speaker 2: about it in multiple ways. Is so a minute ago

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Speaker 2: you said identical services. So I'll hit on the ones

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Speaker 2: that have different services first because I think it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit easier to talk about if the if a

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Speaker 2: church has multiple services where the services look different. The

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Speaker 2: sermons might be the same, but you might have a

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Speaker 2: different style of music. You might have a certain type

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Speaker 2: of dress, a tire is appropriate for this service, and

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Speaker 2: then a certain dress attires appropriate for this service, and

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Speaker 2: don't ever mix those up. The danger there is you're

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Speaker 2: feeding into consumerism. So church now becomes what do you

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Speaker 2: want out of church and what fits you most, and

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Speaker 2: not what is the Bible? Say churches, because it's really

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Speaker 2: at the core with this question is is what is

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Speaker 2: the church? Because that will dictate how you think through services,

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Speaker 2: how you think through preaching, how you think through your

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Speaker 2: responsibility as a church member. All those things play into

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Speaker 2: whether or not multiple services is good and helpful. Doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean they're evil, but again things you want to think through,

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Speaker 2: and so I would discourage any church from doing multiple

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Speaker 2: services where they have different versions. Most common I think

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Speaker 2: is you have a service that's traditional and then you

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Speaker 2: have a service that's contemporary. Again, you're you're dividing the

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Speaker 2: church based on preferences at that point, Well, this group

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Speaker 2: over here prefers this type of music, prefers this kind

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Speaker 2: of feel in the service. This group prefers this type

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Speaker 2: of feel and this type of look and this type

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Speaker 2: of music. So you're really pushing in on people. Your

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Speaker 2: preferences are what matter most here, not what the Bible

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Speaker 2: says we should be doing together. Because if you look

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Speaker 2: in scripture, specifically the New Testament, every time it's talking

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Speaker 2: about the church is talking about this gathering of people together.

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Speaker 2: There's no differentiation of well, this group means at this

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Speaker 2: time to do this. This group at this time means

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Speaker 2: to do this, and that mean the word itself, right,

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Speaker 2: ecclesia clesia means assembly. So there's this understanding that these

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Speaker 2: groups of people are meeting together, assembling together to worship

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Speaker 2: the Lord. And so you want to have this understanding

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Speaker 2: of Sunday service is not about me going there for myself.

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Speaker 2: Me attending Sunday service, yes, benefits me spiritually. I'm getting

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Speaker 2: fed spirit by the word. I'm communing with my other

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Speaker 2: brothers and sisters in Christ. But also me gathering on

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Speaker 2: Sunday is for the benefit of brothers and sisters in Christ.

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Speaker 2: So therefore I need to know my brothers and sisters

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Speaker 2: in Christ that I've covenanted with through membership. And so

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Speaker 2: this is why membership plays role in it. Because if

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Speaker 2: I think, if my thought is well, membership just means

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Speaker 2: that I'm connected to this church somehow, then it doesn't

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Speaker 2: really matter how many services the church has, because I

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Speaker 2: have no responsibility. So what is the responsibility of the members?

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Speaker 2: Why be a member of a church? And we would

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Speaker 2: argue you're a member of a church because you are

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Speaker 2: agreeing with other people, you're covenanting with them. I want

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Speaker 2: to be held accountable by you, and I want to

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Speaker 2: hold you accountable to your walking with Christ. And so

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Speaker 2: that's the mutual agreement. We are making with one another.

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Speaker 2: I need to know you. And if You're going to

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Speaker 2: a ten thirty service and I'm going to a nine

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Speaker 2: am service and we never worshiped together, then it's going

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Speaker 2: to be really hard to do that. I remember in

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Speaker 2: college I went to a church that had three services

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Speaker 2: on Sunday morning, two on Sunday night, and one on

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Speaker 2: Saturday night, and eventually had two on Saturday night. And

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Speaker 2: I would meet people out in the city and find

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Speaker 2: out they were members of the same church of me,

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Speaker 2: and I'd never seen them, and I was going there

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Speaker 2: for at that point a year and a half, and

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Speaker 2: so it was just insane to me that I was

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Speaker 2: meeting person after personally like, oh, yeah, I'm a member

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Speaker 2: of that church too, and I'm thinking, I've literally never

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Speaker 2: even seen you before, not that I just don't know

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Speaker 2: your name or I don't know how long you've been

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Speaker 2: I just I literally have never seen you, and we

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Speaker 2: claim to be members of the same church. Like that.

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Speaker 2: That's a problem, I think because of what Scripture calls

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Speaker 2: us to do as members of churches.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the different kinds of multiple services.

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Speaker 1: And I think you hit on two of them. One

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Speaker 1: of them is the identical services. You're just recreating the

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Speaker 1: same exact thing with the same worship songs, the same room,

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Speaker 1: the same building, the same pastor the same message. You're

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Speaker 1: just replicating it over and over, and we would call

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Speaker 1: that wrong for the reasons you just named. There are

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Speaker 1: churches I go and speak at and I will tell

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Speaker 1: them this. So this is not like I'm this not

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Speaker 1: a secret that I'm just revealing on the podcast. I

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Speaker 1: will tell the pastors when I go, and I don't

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Speaker 1: give them like a fierce rebuke. I just say, would

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Speaker 1: you at home, tell your family that we're going to

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Speaker 1: split the family and some of the family's going to

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Speaker 1: eat at six o'clock and some of the family's going

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Speaker 1: to eat at six forty five, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: make the same meal. Now everyone would say no, that's

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Speaker 1: that would be weird. So that would be the identical services.

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Speaker 1: And then the different service is that are modern. Some

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Speaker 1: people call it contemporary, some people call it the other

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Speaker 1: one traditional or classic. I've heard the name classic. So

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Speaker 1: that's the same thing that's splitting the different styles of people.

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Speaker 1: As the grandparents eat at six o'clock and then the

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Speaker 1: kids eat at six forty five, it does the same thing.

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Speaker 1: And really what that is that's legitimately two churches. It's

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Speaker 1: two churches. But here's a nuance when I think multiple

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Speaker 1: services is okay, and it's when you have a Sunday

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Speaker 1: evening that's the same people that came Sunday morning, you're

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Speaker 1: coming Sunday evening and it's a different message, a different style.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's more of a prayer night. Maybe you have

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Speaker 1: a shorter sermon on something else, an opportunity for different

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Speaker 1: people to engage in different ways, different songs, but it's

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Speaker 1: the same people. It's the same family. That means the

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Speaker 1: family had breakfast together. Now the family's having dinner together.

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Speaker 1: But it's the same family in the same room. So

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Speaker 1: these are things that I think that that's a way

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Speaker 1: that you could have multiple services and it's okay. So

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Speaker 1: don't hear me in that way, but tell me about

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Speaker 1: why if you have a church that is that maybe

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Speaker 1: we should go back, because people are already thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: our church is its just busting at the seams. There's

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Speaker 1: no there's no more room, there's no other way to

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Speaker 1: do this but have three services and we might have

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Speaker 1: to move to four. But there's there's an easy solution

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Speaker 1: to this, and I shouldn't say an easy solution, but

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Speaker 1: there is a practical solution to this. There's a biblical

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Speaker 1: solution to this, and so let's talk about that.

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Speaker 2: A little bit. Yeah, so I think you're talking about

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Speaker 2: church planting, yes, right, like, because that I get the argument.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's just a time that we're running out

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Speaker 2: of seats. What are we going to do? I mean,

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Speaker 2: in some sense we're kind of facing that problem right

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Speaker 2: now our church of what are we going to do

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Speaker 2: because it's getting harder to have as many people in

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Speaker 2: the room. So I'll preface this by saying, also my

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Speaker 2: personal conviction on it is, while I'm convictionally against multiple services,

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Speaker 2: there could be a season where a church needs to

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Speaker 2: go to multiple services in order to buy time for

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Speaker 2: something else. And by season I means something short, you know,

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Speaker 2: six to twelve months. I have a buddy right now

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Speaker 2: who's at their church. They literally they had put every

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Speaker 2: single chair they could fit in their meeting space in there,

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Speaker 2: and then there was some standing room only in the back.

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Speaker 2: They have gone to two services with a time limit

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Speaker 2: of eight months on it. So they're giving themselves eight

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Speaker 2: months to either find a new space or figure out

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Speaker 2: a way to add to their current building. But eight

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Speaker 2: months they're stopping it and potentially we'll plant a church

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Speaker 2: out of it if they can't figure out the space.

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Speaker 1: So before we go to church planning or finding a

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Speaker 1: new building, let me add on to that as well,

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Speaker 1: because I was going to go here too. But Chad,

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Speaker 1: who Chad's on this podcast multiple times, he was sent

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Speaker 1: out and took a senior pastor role in Montana. They

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Speaker 1: had three services, So I'm going to preach for him

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Speaker 1: in October and it's two on Sunday. So we all

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Speaker 1: have Chad this podcast. We love Chad so and that's

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Speaker 1: also what I'm trying to say too, is that this

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Speaker 1: is we're not trying to speak out against any of

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Speaker 1: our friends. We're just saying for people that are looking

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Speaker 1: for a church, what could be encouraging to you. Chad

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Speaker 1: came in and immediately he said, I'm going to work

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Speaker 1: towards getting rid of the Saturday night service first. So

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Speaker 1: it took one step at a time as he took

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Speaker 1: over a very old church that's been doing things for

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Speaker 1: a lot of years the same way. First, his first

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Speaker 1: really goal was I'm going to get rid of the

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Speaker 1: Saturday service and move us to Sunday. Once we get

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Speaker 1: just to Sunday, I'm going to try to get us

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Speaker 1: to one service. But that's something he's working toward and

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Speaker 1: that's the goal. So that's that's one nuance when like,

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Speaker 1: similar to what you said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and to that point, most of the churches that

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Speaker 2: I've engaged with that have multiple services, let's say they

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Speaker 2: have three, they really could do with just two.

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Speaker 1: Yes, right, I said.

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Speaker 2: So some of the motive behind it too is well,

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Speaker 2: if we have extra space, meaning another service where there's

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Speaker 2: more seats, we can we can still grow faster, or

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Speaker 2: we have room for growth, you could say that. But

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Speaker 2: to back to the point of church planting, that's the

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Speaker 2: normal pattern of when the church gets too big. Now

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Speaker 2: that that's not to say a church can't get us

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Speaker 2: a bigger space, because so when we talk about this

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Speaker 2: in our membership process, when people are joining the church,

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Speaker 2: they see the room's getting pretty packed. What's y'all's plan.

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Speaker 2: So this is where we get to talk about how

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Speaker 2: we don't plan to have multiple services. That's we're trying

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Speaker 2: to prevent that, but that we could potentially add onto

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Speaker 2: the building or get a different building or something like that.

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Speaker 2: And so the next follow up question is always, well,

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Speaker 2: how big is too big? When do you cut it

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Speaker 2: off and say we're not growing this space anymore, We're

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Speaker 2: we're straight planting. And I think that question is answered

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Speaker 2: differently based on philosophies and personalities. So for me or

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Speaker 2: for us as elders of our church, too big would

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Speaker 2: be when we can't act adequately care for the members

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Speaker 2: that the Lord has put underneath us, that is entrusted

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Speaker 2: to us, because you know Hebrews thirteen, we have to

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Speaker 2: give an account for every soul that has covenanted at

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Speaker 2: that church.

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Speaker 1: And so, which I think is a different talk too.

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Speaker 1: I think we could do an entire podcast on just

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Speaker 1: that subject as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so because of texts like that, and then

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Speaker 2: even Acts twenty where Paul's writing to the Ephesian elders

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Speaker 2: about how they're supposed to care for all the flock,

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Speaker 2: all of the flock among them, he's using language of

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Speaker 2: your members, know you, you know your members, and you're

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Speaker 2: caring for each of them. And so for us, too

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Speaker 2: big would be when we as elders go, there's no

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Speaker 2: way we can care for all these people. There's no

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Speaker 2: way for us to know them. They don't know us,

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Speaker 2: and there's just no way we can adequately adequately care

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Speaker 2: for their soul, of which we have to give an

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Speaker 2: account to the Lord for we're too big. We're getting

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Speaker 2: too big, So let's plant people out. And planting is

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Speaker 2: hard man, not even logistically. I mean, we plant it

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Speaker 2: out of the church we were in. But it's hard

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Speaker 2: because the way we understand church planting is it's not

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Speaker 2: just sending out two guys and saying, hey, we bless

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Speaker 2: you in your church planting process. Hope it goes well.

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Speaker 2: Let us know if you need any advice or anything.

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Speaker 2: Praise the Lord. Look, we've planted a church. We sent

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Speaker 2: these two guys out. That could be done. That's not

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Speaker 2: sinful to do it that way. But what we would

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Speaker 2: love is to be able to send a couple elders

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Speaker 2: out with thirty to sixty people at least and send

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Speaker 2: money with them and help them find a place and

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Speaker 2: send you know, speakers or MIC's, whatever we can to

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Speaker 2: encourage them and do whatever we could to show we

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Speaker 2: really want this thing to succeed if the Lord wills,

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Speaker 2: and so that means you're giving up a lot of

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Speaker 2: good members you're giving up money, you're you're you're taking

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Speaker 2: a hit membership wise. But the church and the leadership

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Speaker 2: have to be okay with that because it's not about

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Speaker 2: building our name. So I mean, you say the church

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Speaker 2: name on here. I don't really care if people know

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Speaker 2: who our church is. As long as we are doing

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Speaker 2: faithful gospel work where the gospel is spreading and we

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Speaker 2: are doing Kingdom advancement work. That's what I care about.

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Speaker 2: And so if if and I've heard the argument before,

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Speaker 2: what if people just like the preaching here, and so

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Speaker 2: if you plant something out like they're really kind of

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Speaker 2: sacrificing your preaching, I think that's I think that's a

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Speaker 2: bad thing. I think that's a bad argue. You're building

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Speaker 2: it around potentially one man in his speaking ability. What

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Speaker 2: happens when he retires, What happens if he dies in

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Speaker 2: a plane accident or car crash or God forbid, he

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Speaker 2: as a moral failing has to get out of ministry.

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Speaker 2: Now the church is what do we do? We've built

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Speaker 2: around this guy, And so there's other stuff you can

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Speaker 2: do to kind of help the congregation not feel that

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Speaker 2: way about a specific things that we've tried to put

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Speaker 2: in place, So it's not built around me. But if

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Speaker 2: the idea going in is we want to plant other

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Speaker 2: churches because we know the Lord will grow stuff. We

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Speaker 2: grow churches. That's what the Lord does. And it's not

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Speaker 2: about making our name big. It's not about being the

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Speaker 2: biggest church in town. We want to send people out

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Speaker 2: to the communities in which they live. And so if

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Speaker 2: people are driving forty five minutes to come to our

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Speaker 2: church regularly, that's not like a win for us. It's

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Speaker 2: not like wow, look at using people are willing to

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Speaker 2: drive forty five minutes to come to us. Our goals

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Speaker 2: to plant a church in that area so they can

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Speaker 2: be gathering in their community, worshiping together and serving their

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Speaker 2: community in tangible needs and with the Gospel and not

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Speaker 2: having to drive forty five minutes to meet on a

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Speaker 2: Sunday morning with with brothers and sisters in Christ. And

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Speaker 2: so we want to equip people to go out and

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Speaker 2: do that. So we see in Scripture, I mean, you

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Speaker 2: see Paul just encouraging the planting of churches. Paul tells

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Speaker 2: Titus this and Crete says, you know what we left,

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Speaker 2: what was left disorganized? Organize it. And he's taught, he's

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Speaker 2: telling him start churches. He's not telling him to start

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Speaker 2: a single church. He's saying start churches and get elders

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Speaker 2: in those churches and help help those churches get started

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Speaker 2: in a place where there are no churches. And so

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Speaker 2: that's something we want to see as churches giving of

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Speaker 2: themselves for Kingdom advancement, not building themselves up. And so

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Speaker 2: it does tie back to things like you know, you

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Speaker 2: asked how as if I'm thinking about finding a church,

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Speaker 2: what are some things that I want in a church.

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Speaker 2: You want a church where you have access to your pastors.

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Speaker 2: It's a super discouraging thing to me when people come

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Speaker 2: to our church and visit and it's just a shock

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Speaker 2: to them that they have the ability to talk to

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Speaker 2: me after service because I'm standing in the in the

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Speaker 2: four year and the at room, whatever you want to

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Speaker 2: call it, after service just talking to people. They're like,

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Speaker 2: I've been a member at my church for seven eight

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Speaker 2: years and I've not once had a conversation with our pastor.

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Speaker 2: And that's not an attack against that guy. I think

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Speaker 2: there's some situations where the church just get so big

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Speaker 2: it's really hard to do that.

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Speaker 1: And not only meeting in the in the four year

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Speaker 1: after but coming to you and saying I need to

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Speaker 1: speak with the pastor this week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And so all of our pastors, every member

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Speaker 2: has every pastor's contact info. If somebody reaches out for

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Speaker 2: counseling or for a meeting with one of the pastors,

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Speaker 2: we do whatever we can to make that meeting happen

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Speaker 2: within about a week. Most of the time it's within

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Speaker 2: a couple days, depending on how urgent it is. But

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Speaker 2: there is the sense again Paul writing in Acts twenty

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Speaker 2: to the Ephesian elders and then Hebrews thirteen of you

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Speaker 2: need to know the sheep among you. And so if

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Speaker 2: you're at a place where you're looking at churches and

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Speaker 2: you get somewhere and it's like, man, there's no way

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Speaker 2: I'll ever know these pastors, and then they'll never really

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Speaker 2: know me. I think that's discouraging and should be concerning.

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Speaker 1: It would be it's just with the analogy of sheep

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Speaker 1: and the pasture, which a pastor literally means shepherd. So

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Speaker 1: to think of a pasture with too many sheep and

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Speaker 1: not enough shepherds, what would you do in that situation?

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Speaker 1: You would either split the pastures and send sheep out,

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Speaker 1: or you would get more shepherds into the current pasture

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Speaker 1: so that every sheep is accounted for. So if one's lost,

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Speaker 1: you know it. If one is sick, you know it.

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Speaker 1: If one needs fed, you know it. If one gets

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Speaker 1: out of the fence, you know it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because you want to know how they're doing spiritually.

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Speaker 2: You want to know how their souls are. That's what

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Speaker 2: you're giving an account to the Lord for as elders

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Speaker 2: as pastors is and I'm using elder and pastor interchangeably there,

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Speaker 2: but that's what you're doing as a pastor is you

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Speaker 2: are caring for the souls of the people that you're over.

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Speaker 2: So it's not even usually need to be in a

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Speaker 2: place where the elder knows your name. You need to

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Speaker 2: be in a place where the elder knows you, where

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Speaker 2: your elders, your pastors know you. That doesn't mean every

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Speaker 2: pastor has to be your best friend or has to

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Speaker 2: be best friends with every member, but it would be

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Speaker 2: extremely discouraging if somebody came up to me and I said, hey,

434
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 2: it's great to see. Is this your first time here

435
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: and they said, and they would say, I've actually been

436
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 2: a member for about eight months now. That would be

437
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 2: incredibly discouraging. To me, I would be failing at my

438
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 2: job as a pastor if that ever happened.

439
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: So, if you're in a church right now with a

440
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 1: video screen, watching a pastor on a video screen, I

441
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 1: think this conversation kind of speaks for itself though, that

442
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: would be extremely discouraging. Yeah, and probably dangerous for you

443
00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: and your family.

444
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. So for me, this whole discussion is less about

445
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 2: multiple services and more about do you understand what the

446
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 2: church is? Do you understand membership, do you understand what

447
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 2: the role of a pastor is, and do you understand

448
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: what preaching is? So Martin Lloyd Jones, dead guy, amazing preacher.

449
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: He's in the hallway on the way.

450
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got a picture of walking up the hallway.

451
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 2: He would talk about something what he called the preaching moment. Now,

452
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: his argument for that was why sermons shouldn't be recorded

453
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: or they shouldn't be written down and saved. But I

454
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 2: think what he is arguing there has implications for this

455
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: because his point in the preaching moment is the Lord

456
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: is doing something in that moment of preaching between the

457
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 2: preacher and the congregation to whom he's preaching, And so

458
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 2: there is something he's not just he's not written a

459
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: sermon and going all right, I'm just going to deliver

460
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 2: this now, and whoever hears it hears it. He's the

461
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: Lord is using that specific pastor, over his specific congregation

462
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 2: to feed their souls with this word that the Lord

463
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: has equipped him with from the Bible. And so there's

464
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 2: something happening in that preaching moment. And so if you say, well,

465
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: we got four services, now you have four different preaching moments,

466
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: because that guy will not deliver the sermon the exact

467
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 2: same way every single time, and if he is, it's

468
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 2: more of a performance at that point, right, And so

469
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: he's doing something in there, and that doesn't necessarily mean

470
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 2: it's wrong. The Lord can use different can use each

471
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 2: four of those to speak to the people listening. The

472
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 2: problem with that is is now you're getting a different

473
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 2: message than the person at the ten thirty service. You're

474
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: getting a different message in the person at the twelve

475
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: o'clock service. Yes, you might be getting the same content,

476
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 2: but the message is being communicated differently. And you know,

477
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: with the view of preaching not being a performance, I

478
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: would discourage people. We've talked about this a little bit

479
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 2: you know, when you've gone place and had to preach

480
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: it multiple services. I think we've talked about this discouraging

481
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: people from editing the sermon in between services, because what

482
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: you're trying to do at that point is you're trying

483
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: to perfect the sermon.

484
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: That's definitely happened with me.

485
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: This didn't work, So I'm gonna pull that out or

486
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: oh I thought about this, I'm going to add it in.

487
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: At that point, one, you're potentially short changing people who

488
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: decided to come to the earlier services, although they're getting

489
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: probably the most authentic sermon for the day. But at

490
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 2: the same time, the preacher at that point, the pastor

491
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 2: at that point is now trying to perfect some sort

492
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: of message to the people. And I don't think that's

493
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: how preaching works. You're not trying to perfect a message.

494
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 2: You're preaching. You're proclaiming a declarative word to God's people

495
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 2: that He has entrusted under your care.

496
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: If you want to get a hold of me, go

497
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: to cameo dot com slash Granger Smith quick way for

498
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: me to send you a video message, an update, happy birthday, congratulations,

499
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: send it to someone else, whatever it might be. I

500
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: just pull out my phone and record something, record a

501
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: video for whatever you want me to say. Again, that's

502
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: cameo dot com slash Grangersmith. Okay, So talking about churches

503
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: with multiple services, and we kind of we went down

504
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: the aspect of splitting the family. You wouldn't split a

505
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: family at home. The pastor not being able to care

506
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: for all the sheep, the shepherd not being able to

507
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: follow all the sheep in the pasture, the preacher changing

508
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: potentially some of the message and short changing one of

509
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: the congregations. I mentioned the video message. I want to

510
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: make sure that you understand I'm not talking about necessarily

511
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: the projected image of the pastor. I'm talking about if

512
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: he's not even there and they're piping in the message

513
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: on a video, that would be extremely dangerous considering everything

514
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: we've talked about. And then I want to say that

515
00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: the traditional versus modern and contemporary, I'm extremely convicted against that,

516
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: and I believe that those would be multiple churches. You

517
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 1: might as well just call it that because most likely

518
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: the people that go to the contemporary service don't even

519
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: know the people in the traditional and so in that aspect,

520
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: they're not part of a family at all. I don't

521
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: even know each other's name, and so I think that's

522
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: dangerous in multiple ways. I think we talked about a

523
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: little bit about the nuance of how it could work

524
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: if a pastor had a vision moving forward, having traditional

525
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: and contemporary. There's no vision to that. That's just saying, hey,

526
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: we want to make our church as big as possible.

527
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: We want to keep as many people happy as we

528
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: possibly can, because these people want the church oregon or

529
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: the piano, and these people want the drums, and we

530
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: want to keep them both happy, and we want young

531
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: people to keep coming. So we're going to keep both.

532
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: And that's a greedy mentality. That's a meme mentality based

533
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: on me and not God's design. And it's really communicating

534
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: a message that multiplying your services is more important than

535
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: multiplying churches, and multiplying churches is biblical and multiplying services

536
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: is not. So you're communicating in some way to your

537
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: people that growing your own campus and growing your own

538
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: name is more important than what the Bible says the

539
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: church really is.

540
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll add to one of the dangers behind

541
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: it is multiple services will lead to bigger churches. Bigger

542
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: churches are not evil in an other stuff. Now, the

543
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 2: danger with it is the bigger the church gets, the

544
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: greater potential there is for the church to run more

545
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: like a business instead of being run the way Scripture

546
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: commands it to. So if you have five thousand members,

547
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: it's really hard to do some of the things scripture

548
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: caused the church to do. That's not saying it's impossible.

549
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: I think it could be done.

550
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: Were you on the podcast where we were talking about, well,

551
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: how many can you have? Were we talking about that,

552
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: because I think it came about but we're like, maybe, well,

553
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: if you had a thousand, you're gonna need like fifty elders,

554
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: sixty elders potentially, yeah, or pastors we should say for people, Yeah,

555
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: because again it's a lot.

556
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also it depends on personality, right, Like some

557
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: guys are like, I have the mental capacity and the

558
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: ability to really know about seventy five people.

559
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: Well we did talk about this, right.

560
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And some guys will be like, I can know

561
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: three hundred easy. This is my personality. I'm an extrovert,

562
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: I'm always with people. I can know three hundred easily.

563
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: And so if you have this is why plurality of

564
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 2: elders is helpful because that'll help dictate how you care

565
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,479
Speaker 2: for the congregation. But again that's you want to make

566
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: sure that the pastors know and can care for the

567
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: congregation and their souls. But you want to avoid the

568
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: church being run like a business to where the bigger

569
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: you are, and what I mean by business is the

570
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: bigger you get, the more pressure you will feel to

571
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: be the best at what you're doing, and you'll feel

572
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: the need to hire things like a social media team,

573
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: a digital graphics team, a project management people, office managers, things,

574
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 2: And these are all things I've heard churches have. So

575
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: it's not like I'm just grabbing these out of nowhere,

576
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: and you really pull from members being able to serve

577
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: the church because it's now become a product a business

578
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: to be the best at what they're doing when and

579
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: that's training people to say this is what a church needs.

580
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: A church needs these things when really scripture's pretty clear

581
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: on what the church needs. That's not to say social

582
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: media is bad for our church has an Instagram page.

583
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: We do it. I mean it's not done amazing, but

584
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: it's done. We put our sermons online, we have a website.

585
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: So it's not those things are evil, but you start

586
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: running the church in a way that's really hard for

587
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: the congregation have any onus and responsibility within the church,

588
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: because as you've you delegated it out to people you're

589
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: gonna pay to take care of it.

590
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, So people listening right now, like I said,

591
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people listening probably attend to

592
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: church with multiple services. I would like you, guys, do

593
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: me a favor and when I post this, go to

594
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: the YouTube version. So whatever version you're listening to right now,

595
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: go to the YouTube version and comment on this video

596
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: and tell me something that either Marshall and I missed

597
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: or didn't explain well enough, or something that needs an elaboration,

598
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: or if you disagree and you want to push back

599
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: on something we said, that will allow us to sit

600
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: down here next time and then go through this episode

601
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: in real time and go look like Sally says that

602
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: she loves her multiple services and here's why, and then

603
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: we could we could just talk about it. What we're

604
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: not doing is we're not accusing any any congregation members

605
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: or church goers that you're wrong for where you are

606
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: right now. We're just literally trying to encourage you to

607
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: be in the best most nourishing, most well fed place

608
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: that you could be with you and your family. That's

609
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: the conversation we're trying to have, and it kind of

610
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: spurs from people coming and either listening to us or

611
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: visiting and going this is a little different. And we'll

612
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: say for the tenth time when I say a maus

613
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: is a little bit different, I'm not saying that we're

614
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: special or that we are better than everyone else.

615
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: I mean we make mistakes.

616
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: We make a lot of this.

617
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: We're still learning, we grow in it.

618
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: But and so I think you would admit, this is

619
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: not about a maus. This conversation is not This is

620
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: about all the people that are in their own hometowns

621
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 1: listening wherever they're listening to this podcast and thinking about

622
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: how could I serve my family best in a church body.

623
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And because it's not about a mais, we'll have

624
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: people visit and they'll say, Oh, I say, do you

625
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 2: live in Georgetown? Well, no, we live over here. Oh

626
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: have you checked out this church? Yes, We'll try to

627
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: encourage them at least check out this other church before

628
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 2: you make the commitment to come here. That doesn't mean

629
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: we tell them they're not allowed to join us, but

630
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: we just say, have you checked out these other churches

631
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: that are a little closer to where you live, and

632
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: they're faithful churches where you'll be poured into and cared for.

633
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: But then also we do an extended time of prayer

634
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: in our service every Sunday morning, and we always pray

635
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 2: for at least one other church in our area. We'll

636
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: pray for one other church in our area, and then

637
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: we pray for another church in the country to encourage people.

638
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: One if you're in our area and you're closer to

639
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: this other church, go there. They're a faithful church that

640
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: you could be attending, some of whom are in Georgetown

641
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: with us five minute drive down the road, and then

642
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: some of them are closer to downtown Austin. But then

643
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: also we've had people where we pray for churches in

644
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 2: other parts of the country. Amber's done this. We prayed

645
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: for a church up near Dallas, and she said, I

646
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: got a friend or a cousin or somebody, and so

647
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 2: I recommend to that church and they visited. So that's

648
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: what we're doing when we're praying for these churches to

649
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: help people go, Oh, I know somebody who lives there.

650
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 2: That must be a church that I should encourage him

651
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: to go check out.

652
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: We could do that if you comment below your city too,

653
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: we could also recommend someone that we would encourage you

654
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,240
Speaker 1: go to in that area if there is one, hopefully

655
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: there is one. I have one more thing. This is

656
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: a little bit of homework for you guys listening. I

657
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: never do this, but I want you to be thinking

658
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: about this question. What is the goal of the church.

659
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 1: We're not going to answer that. I want you to

660
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: think about it. What is the goal of the church.

661
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you one thing that it's not. The

662
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: goal of the church is not growth. And a lot

663
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: of times and a lot of people I talked to,

664
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: I ask them, what's your goal here? And they say

665
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 1: to grow? And that is not the goal of a church.

666
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: It's not what the Bible says. Go therefore and grow churches.

667
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 1: Grow one church and make it really big, and make

668
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: multiple campuses and pipe in all the messages on video.

669
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: It's not the goal. So be thinking. That's the homework.

670
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: What is the goal of church? And see see if

671
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: you could find biblical, something biblical to back that up.

672
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: And then comment blow on the YouTube page and we'll

673
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: look at that. We'll read it next time. Should we

674
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: get to a question or two? We talked a long

675
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: time about that, but I like to and I think

676
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: it's important. Uh. This first question comes from Tyler once again.

677
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: You could email podcast at grangersmith dot com and says,

678
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 1: good evening. My name is Tyler. I have a question.

679
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: How do I raise my newborn to be a godly man?

680
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: I love my dad, but he is not a godly man.

681
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: I've been trying to figure this out, but I haven't

682
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: any advice. Thanks Tyler, Hey, thanks buddy, thank you, thank

683
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: you for the email. Congratulations on your newborn little boy.

684
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: What a gift, what a blessing. I'll tell you something.

685
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 1: You almost answered your own question in some form because

686
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: you said, how do I raise this godly man? My

687
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: dad was not a godly man, and so you're you're

688
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: making a connection that the father and how he represents

689
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: an example is important. And so there are a lot

690
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: of factors on what makes a godly man, but one

691
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: of those is you being the example of the godliness

692
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: that he could imitate. And and then the discouraging part

693
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: is you say, but I've been trying to figure this out,

694
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: but I haven't. It's okay, you have a lot of

695
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: you have a lot of time for this newborn. But

696
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: this is something Tyler, you have to figure out this,

697
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 1: This is something that falls on you. You can't look

698
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: at this newborn and go, Lord, make him godly because

699
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: this is the this is the airplane. Uh, put the

700
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: mask on yourself before you help your kid. This is

701
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: the exact scenario. You have to put the oxygen mask

702
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: on yourself before you put it on your kids. So

703
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: you seek godliness in yourself and then all that and

704
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: that'll be a big factor in him understanding what that means.

705
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: So that this is a this is this is very

706
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: common kind of question. But how would someone seek to

707
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: be a godly man? Because Tyler, now I'm speaking to you,

708
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: not your newborn. What are what are I mean, there's

709
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of ways, but what are what are a

710
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: few ways that we could just encourage Tyler with?

711
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm a pastor, so to read your Bible,

712
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,959
Speaker 2: being the word daily. That's good for your own soul,

713
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 2: but also that's good for your your sons.

714
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 1: One.

715
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 2: You know, I love making book recommendations, so I know

716
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 2: and I know most guys go I don't read. I

717
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 2: think every guy out there should be reading, so I'll

718
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: always give book recommendations. So one, uh, and this one's

719
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 2: more almost a pamphlet Thoughts for young Men by J.

720
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 2: C Ryle, Dead guy, but really good stuff. And then

721
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: Thomas Watson wrote a book called a Godly Man's Picture

722
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: where he just walks through what does a Godly Man look, think,

723
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: and do? So that one's a little bit longer, but

724
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: both really helpful, excellent books. Read those, but also Tyler, yep, Tyler,

725
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: get into a church if you're not already in one,

726
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 2: and find godly guys in that church who can pour

727
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: into you and speak into your life, because that's what's

728
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 2: going to give you understanding of how one you could

729
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: be a better godly man, but two your learning from

730
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 2: them things. You can encourage your son as he grows up,

731
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 2: and you're able to point to those guys like let's

732
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: say the Lord allows you to be able to stay

733
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: in that same church for an extended period of time,

734
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 2: and your son, this is nine, ten, eleven, twelve. You're

735
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: able to tell him, Hey, look to so and so,

736
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 2: look to so and so. These are godly guys. Hopefully

737
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: you're modeling it as well. But you're also able to

738
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: point him to other godly guys in the church who

739
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: can model for him walking with Jesus looks like faithfully,

740
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: and so it's not just on you at that moment,

741
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 2: but you're encouraging him to look to other guys, especially

742
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: specifically older guys, who who are faithfully living out the

743
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 2: Christian life and modeling for him and for you what

744
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: that looks like.

745
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I don't have much to add

746
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: to that, Tyler. The same way that you want to

747
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: model to your newborn, you want you need somebody to

748
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: model to you, to to kind of redefine what you

749
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: mean by godly or holy or mature. I think you

750
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: could wrap that up by saying obedience to Christ. So

751
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 1: to learn what it means to be obedient to Christ.

752
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: You're going to see this first and foremost in the Bible,

753
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: and then a good, healthy church like we just talked

754
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: about in the whole first section of this podcast, will

755
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: take what that Bible is saying and help apply that

756
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: directly to your life so that you could use what

757
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: you've learned from the Bible and then and walk in it,

758
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: and and then having these these older men to help

759
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: say what's what's going on? What what's your what's your

760
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: routine look like? What are you reading right now in

761
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: the Bible? What's your prayer life like?

762
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 2: What you what do you?

763
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: What are you praying? What do you need in today?

764
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: What are you? What are your temptations? What kind of

765
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: sin battles are you having right now?

766
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: What?

767
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: What we're what are encouraging things that are happened? But

768
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: the things that that are preferably an older man. Really

769
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: it could be anybody, but preferably an older man that says,

770
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: walk where I walked. I'll show you, and I'll show

771
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: you where I messed up, and I'll show you where

772
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: the Lord took me. And it was a good path.

773
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: And so Tyler, would you're going to need a church

774
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: and you're going to need a good Bible.

775
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

776
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I love I love so many times how

777
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: a baby is what starts these kind of conversations. It's

778
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: a it's a great turning point in a man's life

779
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: when he goes, you know, I've been kind of off

780
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: the rails. Now I've got this baby. I can't be

781
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 1: that man anymore. I need to be better. And that's

782
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: a that's a good start.

783
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,879
Speaker 2: And one thing I'll say Tyler. This won't apply much

784
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: as with a newborn, but you need you need to

785
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 2: impress it, have it impressed on your heart right now,

786
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 2: so you're prepared when you need to do it. This

787
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 2: isn't guaranteeing a sign of a godly man, but it

788
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 2: is one of the markers of a godly man is

789
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 2: a guy who's willing to admit when he's wrong and

790
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 2: ask forgiveness from his kids. I've been talking to this

791
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: a lot, to a lot of guys about this recently.

792
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 2: It's a very humbling thing to go to your six

793
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 2: year old and ask for forgiveness because you handled the

794
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 2: situation wrong, or you disciplined out of anger instead of love,

795
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 2: or you yelled instead of being gracious and patient kind

796
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: with your words. But you're teaching them Dad makes mistakes too,

797
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 2: and dad needs forgiveness, and in that you're also modeling

798
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: the forgiveness that you have in christ if you're a Christian.

799
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: So it's one of the markers I think every guy

800
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: should should be working on, is the humility to be

801
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: able to ask forgiveness from your kids when you mess up.

802
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: I love it.

803
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: I'm just finishing up such a good book that I

804
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: know you've read Marshall, that's when people are big and

805
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: God is small.

806
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: Oh it's a great book.

807
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: It's a great book, and I thought I actually went

808
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: into that book thinking it was going to be more

809
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: about pride and humility, but it's much more than that.

810
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, recommend that to anyone when people are big

811
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: and God is small.

812
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

813
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Read says hey, mister Smith, my

814
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: name is Read. I hope you're doing well. I'm fifteen,

815
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: I'm a sophomore in high school. I a professed believer

816
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: in my church, and I love showing steers for four ah.

817
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: My question is, when going through hurdles and ruts in

818
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: your faith, how have you kept your faith and built

819
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: your faith even stronger out of the struggle. I know

820
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: Christ is my Lord and savior, my only hope in

821
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: life and death, But if you were ever in a

822
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: spiritual slump, how would you get out of it? Thanks

823
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: free time, read all. I read, So it's going to

824
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: be hard not to answer the same way we just

825
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: answered Tyler. But those those questions are connected, and probably

826
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: the most common question I get is how do you

827
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: build your faith? Or when you're in a slump, how

828
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: do you get out of it. That's actually great for

829
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: that book when people are big and God is small,

830
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: because you know what you know. Another book is, I

831
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: don't know if it's for a fifteen year old maybe

832
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: it depends on you read. But Dark Clouds Deep Mercies

833
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:08,479
Speaker 1: is is really good at understanding how to, how to pray,

834
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: how to lamit, how to The book talks about how

835
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: to complain to God, how to have a godly complaint

836
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: and what this does. And there's a lot of ways

837
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: to answer your question about how do you build your faith,

838
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: But one thing it does is when you're in the

839
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: struggle of it, you know that God is. God doesn't change.

840
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: God is immovable, but you, emotionally, you're the one changing.

841
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: So when you feel like when you feel like God

842
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: is far away, he's not. It's it's this. It's the

843
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: the false representation of your emotions and your feelings that

844
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: make you feel like He's far away. And so then

845
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: you go back and you remind yourself of the truth

846
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: of who God is. And so you can interchange that

847
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: word faith with trust. So to grow your trust in

848
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: someone in anyone in Marshall. For me to trust marshal more,

849
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: I would need to know him more. Read to I

850
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 1: don't know you at all, so I can't really say

851
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 1: I have faith in you, Read, But that's just because I.

852
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 2: Don't know you.

853
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: But if I learned to know you, my trust would

854
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: grow in you, and then my faith would grow in you.

855
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: And so did you know that God has provided a

856
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: way for us to know Him? And so many times

857
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: I find that this is some a concept that's not

858
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 1: often thought about because we live in a world that's

859
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: just there's a heightened spirituality where it's like, yeah, I believe.

860
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: You know, Christ is my savior, my hope and life

861
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: and death, and we sing about it, and you know

862
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: we has victory over death and he went to the

863
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: cross for my sins, and you know I love Jesus.

864
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: And yet we're lacking in an understanding, a true understanding

865
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: of who he is as he's revealed himself in sixty

866
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: six books of the Bible, and not just the popular

867
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: pop songs that we sing Christian pop songs we sing

868
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: you sing on Sunday mornings. So read, I want you

869
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: to think about I want you to think about reading

870
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: your Bible. And there's a lot of benefits to that,

871
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: but I want you to think with one focused aim

872
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: of knowing who God is, learning who he is as

873
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: he's revealed himself. And as you begin to know who

874
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: he is and learn who he is, it's amazing how

875
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: all the outside factors that are putting you in a

876
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: spiritual slump or your struggles, and I'm assuming you've had them,

877
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: that's why you asked this question, it's amazing when you

878
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: stop thinking about that and yourself and look to Him

879
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: and what he's done and what he has promised and

880
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: who he is, how your faith starts getting stronger. What

881
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: do you have to say to this? The disciples ask

882
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: Jesus the same question.

883
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have much to I echo everything Gradeer

884
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 2: said if being in the word and praying is not

885
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: the issue, because I think that's where I would start,

886
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: right if somebody said that, I feel like God's really

887
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 2: distant from me. God doesn't go further a closer way

888
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 2: to his people. He's there. We can feel further away

889
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 2: because we're not engaging with like we're not reading the Word,

890
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: we're not praying, we're not gathering with his people. But

891
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: let's say that's not there. And part of this is

892
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: I'm going through really difficult times this word. Being in

893
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: the word's helpful because you can remember the promises of God.

894
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: But the promises aren't always positive, meaning hey, I'm with you.

895
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: Some of the promises are and don't forget you're going

896
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: to have to suffer, like there will be suffering in

897
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 2: the Christian life. And so to the point earlier when

898
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 2: we're talking about churches, and sometimes there's churches that you

899
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: need to get out of right now. If the church

900
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: you're going to is promising you that you shouldn't have

901
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 2: to suffer or promising you that you shouldn't be experiencing

902
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 2: some of these difficulties if you, if you truly had faith,

903
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 2: that's a church you need to leave quickly, because that's

904
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: not biblical. Jesus himself says that you will have to

905
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: bear your cross, you will have to, you will have to,

906
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: you will suffer for my name. And that's and then

907
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: when we're preaching through Hebrews right now, we just we're

908
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: in the middle of chapter twelve and it says God

909
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 2: loves us, and we know that because he disciplines us,

910
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 2: so that there's a promise that he will discipline his children,

911
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 2: just like a good father will discipline his children. And

912
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: we talked about in the Sermon on Sunday that discipline

913
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 2: is not just corrective. So it's not like you did

914
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 2: something wrong, I have to discipline you. It's more like

915
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 2: a coach who will help equip and train you through

916
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 2: some hard stuff sometimes. So yeah, sometimes you have to

917
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 2: you have to go run laps because you fumbled the ball.

918
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: But sometimes you just want run windsprins at the end

919
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 2: of practice because the coach is trying to build your endurance,

920
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: not because you did anything wrong. And that's what the

921
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 2: Lord is doing. So there are things that we go

922
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 2: through in our lives that we've been promised it will

923
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: be difficult at points. James Chapter one talks about this

924
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 2: rejoice in your sufferings counted all joy, my brothers. When

925
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: you face various trials. It's very odd to say you're

926
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: going to suffer and you need to rejoice in it.

927
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 2: It's because you recognize that I'm going through this stuff

928
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: because God is sovereign. He's putting it in my life

929
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: to shape and mold me into the image of Jesus.

930
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 2: And so there is a sense where you know, how

931
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 2: do I strengthen my faith when things are really rough

932
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 2: and difficult. There's really not anything you do. To make

933
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 2: that strength, that faith stronger, you lean in on the

934
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: promises of God, knowing God has promised never to put

935
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 2: something in my life that he won't get me through.

936
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 2: God has never promised me an easy life. God has

937
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 2: never promised me health, wealth and prosperity. He's never promised

938
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 2: me that. Because Jesus suffered, I don't have to suffer.

939
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 2: What he has promised is you will face things. I

940
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,919
Speaker 2: will get you through those things, and all of those

941
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 2: things are for your benefit. So that gives me greater

942
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: faith in God. Knowing I have no clue why I'm

943
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 2: going through this, I have no clue what the purpose

944
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: of this is, and it hurts. But I also can

945
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: lean on the fact that God has promised he will

946
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 2: not leave me or forsake me. He will get me

947
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 2: through this. He has not left me, and he will

948
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 2: get me out of this rut. And so my faith

949
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 2: is in Him who has not left me, even though

950
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 2: my circumstance may not change.

951
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. I hey read. I had a guy

952
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: come up to me one time at the end of

953
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 1: one of my talks, and he talked. He pulled me

954
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: aside separately, and he said, man, I just feel like

955
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: my faith is not growing. And I'm reading. You said,

956
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: you said read in the mornings, and that's what I'm doing,

957
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: and I just don't feel like anything's changing. And I said,

958
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: I said, what what do you read on? And he's like,

959
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: wait what. I said, well, do you have a Bible?

960
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: Do you have an iPad phone? He goes my phone.

961
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: I said, you read this morning? He said, yeah, I

962
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: read this morning. I said show me. He's like, right

963
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: right now. I was like, yeah, yeah, show me. So

964
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: he pulls out his phone and I said, show me

965
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: what you read. And he pulls it out and it's

966
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: it was literally one of those apps that sends you

967
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: one verse every morning, and it was you know those

968
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: apps are they're going to send you something about love

969
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: or you know, something to make you feel better, always

970
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,959
Speaker 1: to make you feel better. And I said that, I said, brother,

971
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,919
Speaker 1: that's not what I mean. Reading the Bible. That's that's

972
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: great to have that appen at four o'clock. You're getting

973
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: off work and you read a verse. That's fine, but

974
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: that's not what I mean. That's that you're every morning

975
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: you're getting up and you're eating skittles when you need

976
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 1: a hearty breakfast, and you're going I don't know why

977
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: I'm still hungry. I eat every morning. What are you eating?

978
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: I'm eating skittles. I'm saying that because my son Lincoln

979
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,879
Speaker 1: ates it was last night, so read. I would go

980
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: to something. Go to the meat, go to the steak.

981
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: Stop eating skittles and go to something like the Book

982
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 1: of John, the Book of Mark, that's the shortest gospel.

983
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: Go to Mark, I said John too much, or Matthew.

984
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: Go to Mark and start a Mark one and start reading,

985
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: not fast, not too much, don't consume too much. Do

986
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,439
Speaker 1: it at a pace that you could understand, and move

987
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: slowly through the different little perick apes, and pray before

988
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: you read, say Lord, will you show me who you are?

989
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: I don't want my faith to fail me. Will you

990
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: reveal to yourself who you are as you promised to

991
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 1: do through your word? And read, and then close your

992
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: Bible and think about it throughout the day, and then

993
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 1: the next morning open your Bible again or your app

994
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: and pick up right where you left off yesterday and

995
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: continue doing that the rest of your life.

996
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 2: And getting to a church where you have older godly

997
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 2: guys who can encourage you when you're having those difficult

998
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,720
Speaker 2: times and you feel like your faith isn't strong enough,

999
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 2: so you.

1000
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: Want to come again, and we'll continue as the conversations

1001
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:15,959
Speaker 1: on church.

1002
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, I love talking about church.

1003
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: So comment below if you have a question and we

1004
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: will return to this see you guys. Thanks for joining

1005
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: me on the Granger Smith Podcast. I appreciate all of

1006
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: you guys. You could help me out by rating this

1007
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 1: podcast on iTunes. If you're on YouTube, subscribe to this channel,

1008
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: hit that little like button and notification spell so that

1009
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: you never miss anytime I upload a video.

1010
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 2: Yii