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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. Did is Friday, April tenth.

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Speaker 2: And we apparently are on standby for Sean Diddy Combs

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Speaker 2: to walk out of prison? And with that, welcome to

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Speaker 2: this episode of Amy and TJ.

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Speaker 1: Robes. I have that right. He had an appeal hearing yesterday.

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Speaker 2: They didn't give an immediate decision, but it could come

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Speaker 2: in any moment.

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Speaker 1: Robes, Is this what is at stake?

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Speaker 2: And did I overstate we're standing by to see if

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Speaker 2: this man walks out of jail.

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Speaker 3: Yes, because Diddy's attorneys asked for that very thing. They

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Speaker 3: asked for his immediate release. They asked for his convictions

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Speaker 3: to be overturned, and if the three judge panel didn't

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Speaker 3: want to go so far as to do that, they've

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Speaker 3: at least asked for them to rule that his sentencing

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Speaker 3: should be revisited because it was the harshest sentencing ever

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Speaker 3: given to a I guess a client or a person

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Speaker 3: face similar charges with a similar criminal history.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting you said client because we're talking about prostitution.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're looking for the word.

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Speaker 3: I was looking for the right word. It didn't come

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Speaker 3: to me, but maybe it was very appropriate.

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Speaker 2: But the reason this has risen to the level robes.

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Speaker 2: We're not just oh, here's another appeal and some papers

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Speaker 2: have been filed.

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Speaker 1: It was an appeal.

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Speaker 2: This was the official hearing, the big day he's been

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Speaker 2: waiting on, and the arguments happened in court. Yes, that

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Speaker 2: raises it to a level, but robes and raises to

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Speaker 2: another level because the reporting from the folks in the

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Speaker 2: room were that these judgees seem to really be listening

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Speaker 2: to Diddy's argument.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so it's interesting.

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Speaker 3: We're trying to read the tea leaves because obviously we

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Speaker 3: don't have a ruling or a judgment yet from the judges.

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Speaker 4: But we did get some of the questions they.

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Speaker 3: Were asking and some of the responses they were looking for,

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Speaker 3: and in some moments it did feel.

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Speaker 4: Or appear as though they were.

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Speaker 3: Definitely considering significantly what Diddy's attorneys were arguing, and they

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Speaker 3: at one point one of the judges actually asked the

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Speaker 3: prosecution was questioning the prosecution and said the Man Act

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Speaker 3: was just a side show. Now you want us to

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Speaker 3: rely on all this acquitted conduct.

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Speaker 4: That was very compelling.

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Speaker 2: So the center of what we're talking about here, folks,

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Speaker 2: he remember the trial with last July went eight weeks explosive,

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Speaker 2: very explosive and pretty graphic testimony throughout. He ultimately gets

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Speaker 2: convicted of two of the five charges against him. He

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Speaker 2: was acquitted of three charges that were most serious that

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Speaker 2: could have resulted in him spending life in prison. He

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Speaker 2: was convicted on two charges having to do with prostitution.

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Speaker 2: Now those two ends up with this right, Robes, he

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Speaker 2: gets four years in prison. So this is where we are.

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Speaker 2: The argument now that catches us up. But they are saying,

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Speaker 2: Robes his attorneys is that the two things he was

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Speaker 2: convicted of, the judge is actually considering conduct in the

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Speaker 2: thing the jury said he didn't do. This now is

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Speaker 2: the center of the argument. And quite frankly, well it

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Speaker 2: sounds like both sides have an argument. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure if it's clear if judges are legally allowed to

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Speaker 2: do this or not.

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Speaker 3: I believe that that was the argument the prosecution was making.

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Speaker 3: They were saying, yes, you can consider that that that

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Speaker 3: is something that judges are allowed to do, and so.

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Speaker 4: That is what they have argued.

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Speaker 3: In fact, they said, even if judge a Supermanian made

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Speaker 3: an error in his application and interpretation of the acquitted

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Speaker 3: conduct guideline, which we don't think he did. But even

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Speaker 3: if he did, they argued that that error would be harmless.

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Speaker 3: So you know, they said that, and this is what

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Speaker 3: their other argument, according to Combs and his attorneys. Basically,

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Speaker 3: they were calling, this is bs that the district court

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Speaker 3: should have closed its eyes on how he carried out

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Speaker 3: his man act defenses and abused his victims. And they said,

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Speaker 3: he violently beat them, he threatened them, he lied to them,

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Speaker 3: he plied them with drugs. And they argued to this panel,

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Speaker 3: to this appellate court, to do otherwise would have been

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Speaker 3: unfair and unjust, and that Combs is wrong in his

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Speaker 3: argument that those past acts shouldn't have been considered.

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Speaker 4: They are saying the.

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Speaker 3: Judge absolutely did and should have considered all of those

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Speaker 3: other acts when putting his sentencing together.

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Speaker 2: So bottom lining it is that, yes, he committed this offense.

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Speaker 2: His side is saying, just take it on the merits

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Speaker 2: of the offense. The other side is saying, you have

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Speaker 2: to consider how he committed the offense. Yes correct, it's prostitution,

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Speaker 2: yes fine, But how did he commit the offense of

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Speaker 2: prostitution by beating people, by coercing people, by being violent

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Speaker 2: to folks?

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Speaker 1: That is the argument that is a fascinating legal argument.

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Speaker 2: And it seems like they are both sides have some

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Speaker 2: legal history and precedent on their sign and are making

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Speaker 2: that argument.

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Speaker 1: This is fascinating to me.

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Speaker 3: And it's interesting you say that because one of the

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Speaker 3: judges basically said exactly that he said.

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Speaker 4: He said he called this an exceptionally.

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Speaker 3: Difficult case that raises questions a first impression not only

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Speaker 3: for this court but for any federal court in the country.

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Speaker 3: So what happens or what this appellate panel decides, they

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Speaker 3: know is going to have far reaching and long lasting

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Speaker 3: effects on cases that may come after this one.

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Speaker 1: And did I see this is a court.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people were waiting and expecting

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Speaker 2: them to rule yesterday and that sometimes that's a standard

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Speaker 2: fare for them.

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Speaker 4: Yes, they said that there is no.

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Speaker 3: There's no expected necessary decision that day, but it could

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Speaker 3: have happened, so yes, they folks who went to the

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Speaker 3: court said that this was very much like the trial

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Speaker 3: itself in terms of who was there. People were all

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Speaker 3: outside the court. They were waiting to see who would

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Speaker 3: come and go. They were waiting to see if they

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Speaker 3: can get in. It was a bit of a media

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Speaker 3: circus once again down there at the Federal Court.

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Speaker 2: And we should note he was not there. Sean Ditty

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Speaker 2: Combs did not attend. I believe one family member of

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Speaker 2: his did attend this. And the way it was set up, Robes,

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Speaker 2: it very much sounded like, I mean what I'm used

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Speaker 2: to Supreme Court arguments. East side got ten minutes to

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Speaker 2: make a presentation, but the thing ends up going two hours.

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Speaker 2: They were peppering these lawyers with all these questions. But Roopes,

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Speaker 2: I didn't you put it in such a way that

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Speaker 2: this case now is not just about Sean Ditty COLEMs.

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Speaker 2: It seems like the judges are taking this they know

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Speaker 2: all eyes are on them because of who he is,

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Speaker 2: but also because of the precedent that might be set

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Speaker 2: moving forward for cases.

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Speaker 4: Oh this is huge.

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Speaker 3: Imagine if if they decided if they sided with Diddy's

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Speaker 3: lawyers on this, what this would do to judges when

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Speaker 3: they sentence a defendant. And defendant is what I was

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Speaker 3: looking for instead of client, that was the word I

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Speaker 3: was looking for. But yes, this would impact every case

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Speaker 3: that followed in terms of where a judge felt like

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Speaker 3: his leeway was in making his determination on sentencing, what

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Speaker 3: he could consider what or she could or could not consider.

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Speaker 3: This is going to have a lasting impact on the

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Speaker 3: way judges do their thing going forward, for sure.

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Speaker 2: But it was interesting to Hearbze, and I didn't think

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Speaker 2: I heard the prosecutors really pushed back on the point

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Speaker 2: his Diddy's lawyers were making. No one who has ever

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Speaker 2: been convicted of this has ever gotten a sentence like

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Speaker 2: this he has is the harshest sentence in the history

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Speaker 2: of the Man Act?

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Speaker 1: Is this correct? Ye?

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Speaker 3: So I actually have the exact quotes from Alexander Alexandra Shapiro.

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Speaker 3: Earl Alexander, It's Alexandra Shapiro. They said this sentence was

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Speaker 3: the highest sentence ever imposed for a Man Act defendant

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Speaker 3: sentenced under the same base, offense level and criminal history category.

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Speaker 3: The jury only authorized punishment for prostitution. It never authorized

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Speaker 3: a sentence four times the typical sentence for that crime.

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Speaker 4: That's a powerful argument.

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Speaker 2: This is the harshest sentence in the history of the

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Speaker 2: Man Act by far.

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Speaker 4: There are times more so.

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Speaker 2: But Robes, I don't know this argument. Are you allowed

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Speaker 2: to consider how somebody committed the Man Act defense? Now,

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Speaker 2: something we heard about a lot going in to this

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Speaker 2: hearing ends up being something we didn't really hear about

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Speaker 2: at all during the hearing. We'll explain it sa here

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Speaker 2: we continue here on this Friday, Amy and TJ.

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Speaker 1: Rope.

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Speaker 2: It's wild to think that we are waiting on decision

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Speaker 2: that could have Sean Diddy Coombs out of prison the

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Speaker 2: moment the decision comes.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm not really anticipating that, but as soon

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Speaker 3: as you said it, I thought, Wow, it is possible.

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Speaker 4: It could happen. Right now.

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Speaker 3: He is in the middle of serving a fifty month

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Speaker 3: sentence for his crimes. He's scheduled to be released exactly

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Speaker 3: two years from now, April twenty twenty six. So look,

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Speaker 3: his lawyers are trying to get him out now, or

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Speaker 3: at least get a reduced sentence out of this appeals

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Speaker 3: court hearing.

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Speaker 2: And we have to remember, too, Ropes, he was in

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Speaker 2: prison that whole time, from his arrest through his trial.

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Speaker 2: If he gets a reduced sentence, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: time served in that sentence right now.

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Speaker 3: True, he's been behind bar since September of twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: I believe, so that is quite some time.

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Speaker 1: The man has already served an hour a.

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Speaker 4: Year and a half in prison, an hour yes, it's early.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this client spent an hour and a half in jail. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is how it's been a long week.

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Speaker 2: Folks stay with us so much of what And I

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Speaker 2: was waiting to hear the argument, but they were talking

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Speaker 2: about he has a First Amendment right to shoot, produce,

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Speaker 2: and watch porn. That was part of the argument at

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Speaker 2: least in their briefing. This did not did you see

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Speaker 2: anywhere that this came up.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I saw many folks point out that that

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Speaker 3: really wasn't discussed. Look, if you think about it, I

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Speaker 3: was surprised to hear that both sides only got ten

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Speaker 3: minutes to present their arguments. Now, before this actual hearing

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Speaker 3: took place, the defense submitted an eighty four page briefing

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Speaker 3: of filing making their arguments, and I believe the prosecution

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Speaker 3: submitted an eighty three page argument about why what the

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Speaker 3: judge decided should hold. So they obviously were able to

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Speaker 3: make their points very specifically and very detailed in these filings.

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Speaker 3: But when it came to the oral arguments, yeah, they

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Speaker 3: only got ten minutes. So maybe they just had to

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Speaker 3: focus on what they thought their best chance was. And

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Speaker 3: the First Amendment argument was the argument that his attorneys

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Speaker 3: are making to have it all thrown out, to have

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Speaker 3: him completely acquitted, to have him walk out of prison today.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because he wasn't a client, because he wasn't someone

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Speaker 2: benefiting from the prostitution. He wasn't hiring somebody to have

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Speaker 2: sex with. He bought some plane tickets for people to

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Speaker 2: come for a porn shoot. That is the argument, and

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Speaker 2: the argument on the other side, I kind of remember

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Speaker 2: it rose the argument that this gets everybody out of

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Speaker 2: like moving forward, so everybody can just say when I, yes,

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Speaker 2: I hired a prostitute in that state, broad her to

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Speaker 2: this state, but that's not illegal because I filmed it.

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Speaker 3: Right. That's tough, but we all and we talked about

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Speaker 3: this during the trial. The use or the application of

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Speaker 3: the Man Act just in general was shaky grounds, so

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Speaker 3: to speak. And that is what I thought was interesting

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Speaker 3: that one of the judges even acknowledged and pointed out

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Speaker 3: when questioning the prosecution, referring to the Man Act as

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Speaker 3: it was used in Diddy's.

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Speaker 4: Trial as a side show.

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Speaker 3: So I think everyone gets that that was a very

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Speaker 3: loose interpretation of the Man Act and certainly not what

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Speaker 3: it was intended to be used for.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to I can't remember the name, the nickname

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Speaker 2: it had, just its racist origins, but I can't remember

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Speaker 2: what they used to call it. So the Man Act

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Speaker 2: has been debated a plenty. Now the debate is was

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Speaker 2: it applied correctly in how Sean diddy Combe was punished

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Speaker 2: for two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution, And

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Speaker 2: that has to do with the Man.

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Speaker 4: Act, which was called the White slavery Law.

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Speaker 1: There it is, that is what it was called.

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Speaker 3: So yes, this was used, and it's never been used

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Speaker 3: like this before, but it worked, at least in this

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Speaker 3: particular case to convict Sean Diddy Combs because he was

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Speaker 3: acquitted of the more serious charges of racketeering conspiracy and

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Speaker 3: certainly that would have landed him in jail potentially for

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Speaker 3: the rest of his life. So just the mere fact

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Speaker 3: that he was only sentenced to fifty months was a

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Speaker 3: win for the defense. But now, look, they could bring

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Speaker 3: home another massive victory if they get any of that

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Speaker 3: sentence reduced further.

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Speaker 1: This would be bananas.

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Speaker 2: But we stand by Rhodes and we've went through and

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Speaker 2: we're covering on some just making sure you didn't see something.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't see a good indication of when a

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Speaker 2: decision might come.

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Speaker 3: No, and I think that's just completely up in the air.

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Speaker 3: We have no idea when. But look, it wouldn't it

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Speaker 3: wouldn't be out of the question to get a ruling today,

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Speaker 3: So we will obviously be Yeah, we will keep our

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Speaker 3: eye on this. Everyone is waiting for word on this.

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Speaker 3: This is a big deal again for Sean Didty Combs,

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Speaker 3: but also for our legal system period.

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Speaker 2: A lot of folks said this case should not have

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Speaker 2: been brought in the first place, and then after it

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Speaker 2: was brought they shouldn't have shot for the moon with

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Speaker 2: some of these charges. We shall see, but the Sean

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Speaker 2: Diddy Coombe saga is not over.

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Speaker 1: We will keep an eye on it.

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Speaker 2: As always, top right corner of your Apple podcast app

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Speaker 2: where you see our show page a little button that

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Speaker 2: says follow click that you can subscribe and make sure

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Speaker 2: you always get our updates. And as we say, there's

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Speaker 2: always a plenty these days. And with that, we always

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Speaker 2: appreciate your spending time with us. I am TJ. Holmes

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Speaker 2: on behalf of my dear Amy Robach. We'll talk to

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Speaker 2: you