1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Attention, DC, Boston, Toronto and any place that can fly 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: to those cities. We're gonna be live on stage doing 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: our thing again. I'm May fourth, fifth, and sixth this year. 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: That's right. And I gotta say, we've done this topic 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: a few times already and it's a real banger and 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: we can't wait to come to your city and have 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: you see it with us. We're so excited and we 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: just can't hide it. So go to link tree slash 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: sysk and get your tickets today. Welcome to Stuff you 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to 11 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: in low data mode and this is stuff you should know. 13 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: What does that mean? I just got a message flashed 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: on my screen that Jerry's in low data mode. Oh really, 15 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: it means she's low key. Olivia helped us with this one. 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: And you know what Olivia has gotten great at lately 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: is titling these episodes in fun ways. Yeah, for sure, 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: you want to. You want to say this one too, Yeah, 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: And it's generally just for us, which I appreciate. But 20 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: this is about dousing aka water witching, the practice of 21 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: using sticks or metal rods or something to walk around 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: and have and tell you whether or not there is 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: water underground or iron ore or body being buried or whatever. 24 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: So we'll get into all that. But Olivia titled it 25 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: the surprisingly long lasting art of dousing, and I think 26 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: it's appropriate she called it an art because it's definitely 27 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: not a science, although people have tried to apply science 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: to it in interesting ways. Yeah, and a lot of 29 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: people say it's pure bunk. I just think it's very 30 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: interesting and I've never known much about it. And that's 31 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: how I'm kind of choosing topics these days, is what 32 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: do I want to learn about? You know? Sure me first, 33 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: that's right, and through me we can be the conduit 34 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: to others too, amazing new ideas like dowsing. And actually 35 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: we shouldn't say this is a new idea for us, 36 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: because this um we actually did a chapter in our book, 37 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: remember I dowsing, that's right, And in that chapter I 38 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: went back and reread it and I was very satisfied 39 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: that we basically took the stance that we're taking today, 40 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: that you just took that basically. You know, some people 41 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: call it bunk. I don't know enough about it to 42 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: say either way, and just to keep our minds open. 43 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: And even though it is bunk in a lot of ways, 44 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: we're not like gonna poop poo or tear it down 45 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: like we did crop circles, you know. Yeah, I agree. Um, 46 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: it's something that people have been doing for over five 47 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: hundred years and and like we said, it's got a 48 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: bunch of different names, but dowsing, basically as we think 49 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: of it today is something that started in sixteen century 50 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: what would now be Germany and the mining industry there, 51 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: which was a new thing that was really growing fast, 52 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: and they were looking for or underground veins of ore. 53 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: And it looks like as early as fifteen thirty there 54 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: was somebody, a mining expert name Yorg Ericola who talked 55 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: about dowsing and divining rods in a way that he 56 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: wasn't like, hey, this is what this is like, as 57 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: if people understood what it was right in his book 58 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: De ray Metallica, is that really what it was called? Yeah, 59 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: that's a great name. So yeah, the Germans are pretty 60 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: much unambiguously the people who created dowsing at least in 61 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: the roughly modern era, and it got imported to England 62 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: pretty quickly and France also, So in England they were 63 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: using it for mining, just like they were in Germany 64 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: to discover or but France also adopted it and they said, hey, 65 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: we're going to use this for water instead. I didn't 66 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: see where they got that idea from or why, but 67 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: they I don't know. There's like supposed references in the 68 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: Bible which may or may not reflect housing. Who knows. 69 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: It's possible that they thought that's what it was used 70 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: for in France. I'm not sure. But by the sixteenth 71 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: and early seventeenth century you had people a lot of 72 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: people in Western Europe walking around with forked sticks looking 73 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: for ore and water and basically being like this, this 74 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: really works. This is how we're going to find water. 75 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: And back then it made a lot of sense because 76 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: there wasn't any other way to find water, so why 77 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: not walk around with a forked stick? Yeah, and the 78 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: idea we'll get into sort of how people do it 79 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: later on, but is that you hold a forked stick. 80 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: Back then, at least that was sort of what they 81 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: were using exclusively, and it would dip down when there 82 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: was something underneath you of note, there was a man 83 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: named Robert Boyle, known as a father of chemistry in 84 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century, who described it as a forked hazel twig. 85 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: I believe there were other woods used hazel as one. 86 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: It's kind of mentioned a lot. Yeah, what was one 87 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: of the other ones I've seen peach rowan, which I 88 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: am not familiar with the rowan tree, but apparently there's 89 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: plenty of them here and they bear fruit, but it's 90 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: a it's like a fruit wood that's supposedly really good 91 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: for it. Um, which hazel is another one. And then 92 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: willow um, which makes a lot of sense because willow 93 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: trees tend to grow where there's water near the surface, 94 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: so it would kind of make sense that you would 95 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: use the willow branch. And then you'd turn around and 96 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: point to the willow tree and say down there, that's right. 97 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: And then if it's the nineteen fifties through seventies, you 98 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: could switch your child with it. It's right. My grandmother, oh, 99 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: my dear sweet, my dad's mom opal, she would make 100 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: us go pick out our switch, no, which is I 101 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: think was a tradition. This ouf like, go pick out 102 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: the switch that I'm gonna use, And that was the 103 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: punishment that was the fear, and you would you go 104 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: out there and you pick the flimsy twig that you 105 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: could find and come back. And then she she never 106 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: touched us. She didn't. Oh that's good, she didn't do that. Similarly, 107 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: when you were really bad, Grandma Opal would make you 108 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: dig your own grave in the backyard, really get to you. 109 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,799 Speaker 1: But she never. Oh man, I miss her. She was great, 110 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: lived to one hundred and one. I know, that's amazing, 111 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: not bad. So we mentioned other things that you could 112 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: find underground, like dead bodies. This happened for a while 113 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: in the late seventeenth centuries. They started getting into things like, hey, 114 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: we could find treasure using these y rods. We could 115 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: find we could find the bodies that we were talking about. 116 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: We could find a property boundary that no one can 117 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: agree on. Yeah, that one's really out there. Well, and 118 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: that's very like, I mean, you better agree on who's 119 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: doing doing that job between two neighborhoods who are at 120 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: dispute with one another. You know, yeah, for sure, it's 121 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: called the best dowser in your area. Let's use my guy. 122 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: He'll show you show us where the property line is exactly. 123 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: But there was a French peasant named Jacques Amar, who 124 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: in the latest seventeenth century, as the story goes, was 125 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: water dowsing, and the rod pointed down very sharply, and 126 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: he said, hey, let's get some guys out here, dig 127 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: down and get this water. And before you knew it, 128 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: they struck body and it was a murdered woman. And 129 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: he not only found the body, but then went to 130 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: the widower and the family basically and said, I'm going 131 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: to point this thing at you guys, and the thing 132 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: dipped at her former husband. He fled the scene and 133 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: was found out to be the murderer. And so now 134 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, dowsing rods are, for a while 135 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: at least, and for this guy, for sure, a way 136 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: to root out murderers and dead bodies. So much so 137 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: that in leone Um there was a group of like 138 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: I think, a husband and wife who owned a wine 139 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: shop there who were murdered four years later after he 140 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: discovered that first body, and they actually contacted jack Amar 141 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: and said, can you come help us find who did this? 142 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: And so he set about with his dowsing stick looking. 143 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: I think he actually got into a boat at one 144 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: point and sailed around looking for a murderer, rooted one out, 145 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: he found one in another town, and that guy actually 146 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: confessed and then fingered two other accomplices who had fled 147 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: France by that time. So you're like, well, that guy 148 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: was very special. As far as dowsing goes, there's a 149 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: lot of ways to interpret it to if you're going 150 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: to be a skeptic, where you could say, like, this 151 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: is the sixteenth century or seventeenth century in France, and 152 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: if people thought that you were a murderer, it didn't 153 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: matter whether you were a murder or not. You were 154 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: in big trouble, and so you might flee France if 155 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: you got worried that people were coming to look for you. 156 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: Who knows, Or you could also believe that Jacques amar 157 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: had some special talent or gift that allowed him to 158 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: douse murder suspects, among other things. And that's that's actually 159 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: a point that kind of underpins the entire dowsing tradition. 160 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: Most dowsers believe that it's innate in them, maybe innate 161 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: in everybody, and they're just a little more their sense 162 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: is a little more refined, but that it's not like 163 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: you're picking up some magic stick. It's the stick is 164 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: somehow an instrument that you're you're special innate ability is 165 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: using to kind of guide you. Yeah, and you also 166 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: forgot the last possibility there, which is through a rock 167 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: in the seventeenth century France, and you're probably gonna hit 168 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: two people who murdered wine shoff owners. Right, Yeah, that's 169 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: a good point too. Eighteenth century dousing was not so 170 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: much a thing for mining anymore in Europe because science 171 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: had improved such that they were like, now we've got better, 172 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: better ways to discover or this or under our feet. 173 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: And into the twentieth century, we'll get to kind of 174 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: where it stands today later. But of course the Nazis 175 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: got involved because they were into all sorts of weird 176 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: esoteric methods of doing anything, and the stupid Nazis and 177 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: Himmler of course said hey, let's look for explosives, let's 178 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: look for water, let's look for gold, or just get 179 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: some Nazis out there with dowsing rods and tell me 180 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: what happens. Yeah, apparently they trained whole units, because again 181 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: the Nazis were very stupid. And then in the twentieth century, chuck, 182 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: if you were educated by or employed at Harvard in 183 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, there was a good chance you were 184 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: going to study dowsing. Well, a lot of Harvard people did, 185 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: weirdly sure, but I mean, how many really were there 186 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: out there at the time. This is probably a significant people, 187 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: probably like a dozen. So yeah, a full third of 188 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: Harvard educated people were studying dowsing in the fifties. One 189 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: guy Raid Hyman and another Elizabeth G. Cohen, they worked together. 190 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: They were sociologists from Harvard, and they studied dowsing by 191 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: by surveying agricultural extension agents, the people who were the 192 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: conduit between education and you know, the rural areas, right, 193 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: So these people had a foot in each camp, so 194 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: they were they were a really good group to study 195 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: dowsing or dowsing beliefs. They found that every single state 196 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: head dowsers, mostly in the rural areas, and that in 197 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: those rural areas where the dowsers were most densely concentrated. 198 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: There was about an average in the United States in 199 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties about thirty five dowsers per one hundred 200 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: thousand people. That's a huge number of dowsers in the 201 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: twentieth century. Middle twentieth century, still working in these rural areas. Yeah, 202 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: I would agree, that's a lot. Uh. Yeah. They also 203 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: did a bunch of, like you said, interviews with these 204 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: agricultural agents, and it was basically like a little more 205 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: than half thought it was bunk. About twenty percent said 206 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: they believed in it, about twenty four percent said they 207 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: were open minded to it, kind of on the fence. 208 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: And one thing that they discovered that Hymen and Elizabeth 209 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: Cummen discovered was basically people it's not that they so 210 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: much believed in dowsing as being like this foolproof thing, 211 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: but more like, hey, we can't get a lot of 212 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: guidance on where to find water, and like it doesn't 213 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: cost a lot to hire a dowser, so it's better 214 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: than nothing. If I can pay someone in the nineteen 215 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: fifties like five bucks to walk around my field for 216 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: a good place to drill, it's better than zero, right. 217 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: And it's not like they just tapped like todd to 218 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: go out there and like use a stick to be 219 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: like drill here. These dowsers that they were employing had 220 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: some sort of success in their track record, so yeah, 221 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: there it made it a little easier to be like 222 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: I'll just give this a try, because what else, what opportunity? 223 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: What other alternatives do I have? Yeah, there was another 224 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: Harvard or named Ivan zee Vacht who did some studying 225 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: of this, and like he said, he found that there 226 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: were certain people who just seemingly were more gifted than 227 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: others at it. It was a part time thing. Usually 228 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: people did make some pretty good money doing it, and 229 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: it was almost always something that men did and not women. 230 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: And like you mentioned, they they generally believed it wasn't 231 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: like a snake oil thing where they were like, let 232 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: me see how many people I can rip off with 233 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: this stick. Um, they believed in what they were doing. 234 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: It seems like about across the board. Yeah, he said, 235 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: universally basically. Um. He so he studied specifically Homestead, New Mexico, 236 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: U and he found that Um that he well, he 237 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: basically lumped it in with folk magic, which I think 238 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: is that's fair. Um. And he said that that DAL 239 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: is the most commonly used type of folk magic and 240 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: agriculture in these rural areas. Like another type would be 241 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: using the zodiac to predict when to do certain farming 242 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: like harvesting or planting or something like that. But you're 243 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: more much more likely to find find people who were 244 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: willing to believe in dowsing than than that. Yeah, and 245 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: that even educated people believed in it in the area. 246 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: And one reason you can kind of give for that 247 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: is that these areas were hard up for water, so 248 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: it kind of I would guess that like the lack 249 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: of availability of water or at least easy access to 250 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: it would kind of help suspend your disbelief more than 251 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: somebody who you know has a municipal water supply running 252 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: into their house, you know. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Speaking 253 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: of VAT, he continued his work into the late sixties 254 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: along with his colleague Linda K. Barrett, and they started 255 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: researching Urban Dowsers, which is a pretty good band name. 256 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah it is. What are they? What kind of music? 257 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: I know this is your specialty. I'm going to just 258 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: go fall back on the standby of math rock. I 259 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: would say Pavement, like maybe a Pavement tribute band. Even 260 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: that's kind of what it sounds like to me. But yeah, 261 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna just go with math rock, Okay. They study 262 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: the American Society of Dowsers the ASD. They were founded 263 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: in Vermont in the early nineteen sixties. I think they're 264 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: about a thousand strong. And these are people that lived, 265 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: you know, these are urban dowsers. They live where they 266 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: have city water systems and plenty of water, and they 267 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: used dowsing for other things, sometimes to detect if you 268 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: had a medical problem, sometimes to look for something that 269 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: someone lost. They basically argued like, hey, you should be 270 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: using us all over the world where people don't have water, 271 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: Like why is everyone against dousing when you should be 272 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: enlisting us? Right, And the ASD still survives today. They 273 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: have multiple chapters all over the world. As a matter 274 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: of fact, even though it's the American Society of Dowsers, 275 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: they do have other chapters in other countries and they 276 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: still dowse. They still meet, they share tips and tricks 277 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: with one another. I believe they have newsletters. So they're 278 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: still around for sure. So should should we take a 279 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: break and then talk about how to do it? Definitely? Okay, 280 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break, We're gonna get our coat 281 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: hangers out, and we're gonna get going right after this. 282 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: I've still stumped. There's a about ten percent of my 283 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: brain is still working out what music urban dowsers play. 284 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: I'll come up with it. I can't that's a that's 285 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,479 Speaker 1: a tough one. So I mean, if it were like, 286 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: if they were clever and they wanted to kind of 287 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: engage in a bit of word play, then I would 288 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: say they're like neo country pop, you know what I mean, 289 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: like Billboard chart pop Urban Dowsers, like they can their 290 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: music can be enjoyed in the city or the country. 291 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: You mean, like the guys that sing about tailgating and 292 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Precisely, I mean, what you got, Luke 293 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: Bran or Urban Dowsers? Which one you're gonna do? I 294 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: predict Luke Bryan's gonna change his name to Urban Dowsers 295 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: in the next five years. Hey, I'm not gonna not 296 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: Luke Bryan. I don't know it's music, but he seems 297 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: like a good guy from what I understand he is. 298 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: All right, So, how did dows you take the Well, 299 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: there's a couple of ways. You can have that y 300 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: shaped rod and you hold it by the why and 301 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: have the the single stem pointing out with your palms upward, 302 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: the why pointed upward. In fact, that about a forty 303 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: five degree angle. Then you walk around and you wait 304 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,479 Speaker 1: for that thing to I guess to move in your hands. 305 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: You will you wait for it to make a barrier 306 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: on your own son, and it difts down. Like we said, 307 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: we mentioned the different kind of sticks that were used. 308 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: The kind of dowsing I see a lot on YouTube 309 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: because I did a lot of watching of this stuff 310 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: is the coat hanger. One where they take and it's 311 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: not always coat hangers, but just two metal L shaped 312 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: rods and you hold it by the small side of 313 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: the L in each hand and walk around and then 314 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: these rods, you know, come together and cross one another 315 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: at a place where you're standing. Right. Apparently, the American 316 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: Society of Dowsers says, far and away the most frequent 317 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: tool these days to use for dowsing is the pendulum. Yeah, 318 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: which can be anything from a crystal on a piece 319 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: of hemp string to a paper clip on some leftover 320 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: thread or down flossy even who knows it doesn't matter 321 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: because again, remember this this is a tool that the 322 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: human is a conduit for. It's not like the tool 323 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: itself is super important. Yeah, it's just it just kind 324 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: of points out what the human can sense innately. And 325 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: with the pendulum, they basically say, if it's swinging forward 326 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: to backward, that's yes meaning okay, there's some water here, 327 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: or it swings from side to side for no. And 328 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: because you can get a yes or a no out 329 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: of this pendulum, you can use it for plenty of 330 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: other stuff. In fact, there's something called information dowsing, which 331 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: is essentially like fortune telling. You ask the dows the 332 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: dowsing rod or dowsing pendulum certain questions in the way 333 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: it responds will give you the answer you're looking for. Yeah, 334 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: it's interesting to think. It just kind of hit me 335 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: today that they said that this is usually man, and 336 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: this is sort of the one area there where that's true. Like, 337 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: have you ever heard of a of a man that's 338 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: a fortune teller or palm reader? It seems like that's 339 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: usually women, right, Yeah, there are plenty of women dowsers 340 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: these days. I think it was just in that fifties 341 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: survey though. Yeah, yeah, because I've seen interviews with multiple 342 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: women who are dowsers. All right, all right, so that 343 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: that clears that up. We talked about walking across the 344 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: field and stuff. That's sort of what everyone usually thinks 345 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: of when they think of dowsing or water witching is 346 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: something they call it here in the States, but there's 347 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: also map dowsing, which that pendulum comes in handy, or 348 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: you might just use like a pencil or something where 349 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: you go to like a map and do the same 350 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: thing to narrow down what field you should walk in 351 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: to find whatever you're looking for. The pencil one. I 352 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: think there's a writer named Robert Ader who wrote a 353 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: pamphlet that's on the American Society of Dowser website where 354 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: he talks about using that pencil to find whatever, and 355 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: you'll hold that pencil over a map, try and tune 356 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: in whatever that means to what you're trying to find 357 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: and feel for the location. And he's like, listen, I've 358 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: looked for water on the moon with my Moon maps. 359 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: I've looked for the grave side of Bigfoot, and I 360 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: didn't big dig a Bigfoot up, but I found a 361 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: spot on the map where there are definitely some large 362 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: humps of earth right full stop, so exactly so um. 363 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: Also in that pamphlet, Robert he basically says like how 364 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: you ask the question and how you word it is 365 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: really important. And he gave an anecdote about when he 366 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: was looking for water on the moon with the map 367 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: of the Moon. He asked the he asked the pencil, like, 368 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: show me where water on the moon is, and he 369 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: said the pencil started to float over in his hand over, 370 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: don't be ridiculous here over his shoulder and point toward 371 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,959 Speaker 1: the moon behind him out the window, and he realized, 372 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: oh no, I had to ask it where on the map? 373 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: Show me on the map where there's water on the moon. 374 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: And then the pencil pointed it out. So I feel 375 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: like here we kind of reached like the point between 376 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: finding water on the moon and finding bigfoot graves where 377 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: most people are going to take their leave of dowsing 378 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: and be like this, this doesn't work. But if you 379 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: step back and kind of strip away all the add 380 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: ons and stuff that's been you know, put onto it 381 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: over the years, and just go back to searching for 382 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: oars or water using this stuff, um, you can kind 383 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: of not regain credibility. That's not the word I'm looking for. 384 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: The phrase. It's more it comes it's yes, sure, it's 385 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: at least less loony. How about that? Yeah? Did that 386 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: guy also in the pamphlet say I found the Tykondo 387 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: Rogan number two to be quite cheeky. Man, that's an 388 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: arcane pencil reference right there. Shout out to David Reese. Yeah, 389 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: he got that all, but he's slapping his knee right now. 390 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: So how does this um supposedly work? You know, it's 391 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: not like they're just like, hey, this is magic or whatever. 392 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: There have been people that have tried to explain like 393 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: how this might work, and some of the explanations, you know, 394 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: early on were obviously some kind of magnetism or magnetic 395 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: field or something that people can pick up on on 396 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: planet Earth. There was a a German alchemist name Johann 397 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: Tolde who wrote under the pen name Basilius Valentius, great name, 398 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,959 Speaker 1: and put out this theory that the metals in the 399 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: earth basically breathe a breath that rises out from the 400 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: earth that attracts the rod, and that you know, the 401 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 1: trembling rod would would shake when it hits that breath. Yeah, 402 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: and this is back in the day, right, And the 403 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: German miners of his day were like, we think it's 404 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: just magnetism, right, that's a kind of a convoluted theory 405 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: you got there, Valentis. But um, yeah, So I feel 406 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: like there have been people over the years who've kind 407 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: added unnecessarily to the mystique. Because if you think about it, 408 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, this is just magnetism. Somehow we're picking 409 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: up magnetism. That makes sense, that that's logical. It doesn't. 410 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: We don't have any way to explain it. But it's 411 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: a lot better than breath coming up. But if you 412 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: stop and think about it, you know, maybe this guy 413 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: was just basically using a different word or a different term, 414 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: or embellishing on the idea of magnetism or something like that. 415 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: And if you kind of read into the explanations over 416 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: the years buy dowsers for what dowsing is or how 417 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: it works, you kind of get the same premise that 418 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: somehow the person is picking up on something that's invisible 419 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: to us, but that person can still sense. Yeah. I 420 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 1: watched this school YouTube. There was this guy. It had 421 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty five thousand music. I don't know 422 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: if he even said his name, but he's a YouTube 423 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: dowser guy who came on to kind of talk about it, 424 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: and he just he had a very nice demeanor. He 425 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: had this big beard and he was just sort of like, listen, 426 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: this coat hanger isn't magic. I'm not magic, he said. 427 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: I just believe that there are certain people who can 428 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: sense voids in the earth under their feet, and some 429 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: people are better at this than others. Other people have 430 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: pointed to like certain animals that could do this. I 431 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: know that, of course he's are all anecdotal, but like 432 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: mister ed, like, hey, put peanut butter in that guy's 433 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 1: teeth and he'll say anything you want. Or but like 434 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, animals like mules plowing fields would there are 435 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: anecdotal stories of them like stopping at places and like 436 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: refusing to sort of walk over an area that later 437 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: turns out there was something buried underground that would have 438 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: like harmed the plow or something like that. To say, 439 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: but this YouTuber was he was a good guy and 440 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: he was just like, listen, you believe it or not. 441 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm not saying you should go do this stuff or 442 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: you should believe it, but this is just what I 443 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: feel like people, there are certain people who can sense 444 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: avoid in the earth. I was waiting for you initially 445 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,479 Speaker 1: to say where he was saying, like the rod's not magic. 446 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm not magic, my beard, that's magic. No. He turned 447 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: out to be fairly sensible, And this is something I 448 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: remember from childhood though from church, is that Christians have 449 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: long sort of had this. You know, it's kind of 450 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: the dark arts in a way, and so anytime it's 451 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: something in that realm, Christians are going to be very 452 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: much like, no, no, no, I don't remember specifically what 453 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: it was, but I have some vague recollection from my 454 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: childhood of hearing about water witching and someone saying I 455 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: don't know who it was, but someone in my life 456 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: could have been someone at church and in my family 457 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: even saying like no, no, no, that's like, that's like, 458 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: you know, black magic basically, right, exactly, call it folk magic, 459 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: call it whatever it's. It's still not it's still not 460 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: God performing a miracle. It's you exactly yet, and therefore 461 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: it's blasphemous and demonic and the devils somehow involved. We 462 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: just know it. I'm sure it's you, just priest's fault 463 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: to some degree. That's that same impulse, So we don't 464 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: understand it, so it must be demonic. The irony here 465 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: is that what they're afraid of and don't understand probably 466 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: doesn't even exist. It's not even necessarily real. So they're 467 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: afraid of chance happenings, of people just randomly getting something 468 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: right once in a while. Yeah, Martin Luther apparently was 469 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: not a big fan of dowsing. That doesn't surprise me. 470 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: And there was a guy named Johann Gottfried Ziedler. He 471 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: wrote a book that was basically like, Hey, these people 472 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: are tapping into something called the world spirit, and if 473 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: you tap into that, man, you can find out anything 474 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: you want, like whether somebody who died went to heaven 475 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: or hell. You're not supposed to know that, you're not God. 476 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: He's keep away from dowsing. Essentially, what Zidler's message was, Yeah, 477 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure there was a lot of Christian pushback on 478 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: that guy. So as as science kind of progressed people, 479 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: there's a really long tradition of people trying to apply 480 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: science to explaining dowsing UM. And I say we take 481 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: our second break and come back and get into some 482 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: of those because there, this is where it gets super 483 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: fascinating to me. Let's do it all right. So we 484 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: were going to talk a little bit about the beginnings 485 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: of UM, sort of the modern take on things, and uh, well, 486 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: I guess this is less modern because this is the 487 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: seven late seventeen hundreds. But in sixteen ninety three there 488 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: was a French priest and a doctor of divinity named 489 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: Ley Lorraine de Valmont. Great book, great name, but not 490 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: a good hotel name at all. He really attract attention 491 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: to you. I think it's a great book, great name. 492 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: I wrote a book about um Amar. Remember Amar who 493 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: found the I think the murderer Jacques Amar the probably 494 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: the most famous dowser of all time. I think, Well, 495 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: did he have a one hundred and eighty five thousand 496 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: views on YouTube? Would? He would? He was quite a showman. 497 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: So he wrote a book when he basically wrote about 498 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: Amar success where he claimed that certain particles um arose 499 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: from water underground, from treasure, from a dead body, let's say, 500 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: and they would enter the body through the pores and 501 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: that some people, like this YouTube dowser said, were just 502 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: particularly sensitive and that seems to be the sort of 503 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: the refrain that, like he said earlier, some people just 504 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: claimed to be more sensitive to this either magnetic field 505 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 1: or these this energy coming out from the ground or 506 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: these voids in the earth, right um. And this is 507 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: about where science starts to kind of try to be 508 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: applied to explaining dowsing. And that Dave Almont termed these 509 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: particles lays at tombs because Robert Boyle, the father of chemistry, 510 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: had already identified that they're probably something called adams in 511 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: the world and that they are just out and about. 512 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: And so what low Lorraine de Almont was saying was 513 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: that we're some people are sensitive to those last homes, 514 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: and that kind of kicked off that tradition of like, oh, 515 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: there's this new science. Let's figure out how it applies 516 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: to dowsing, right, or hey, let's I believe In the 517 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds there were French priests that practice what they 518 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: called radiaesthesia, which was let's use dousing to detect a 519 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: radiation a various kind. Let's find it to diagnosed disease. 520 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: And this, you know this again is when it veers 521 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: away from like water and iron ore or something right 522 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: to a little more of the hokey pokey. But again, 523 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: radiation had just been discovered, and in no time, three 524 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: French priests are applying it, saying like, that's really detecting. 525 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: That explains it. Some other people have said, oh, it's electricity. 526 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: Some people say yeah, it actually is radiation, or it 527 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: is magnetism or something like that, and then you've got 528 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: the other camp that's like, no, it's esp or these 529 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,719 Speaker 1: people are conduits for God or something like that. Um, 530 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: what was the thing you found that I in reply 531 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: sent you a picture of Professor Frank. I don't remember 532 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: where I saw that, but it was a really neat 533 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: explanation of it. Um. So it was basically saying that 534 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: we have, like our cells are capable of accepting electricity 535 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: or some sort of charge or whatever, and that that 536 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: ores in water emanate things that can charge those cells, 537 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: and that that's kind of how we pick it up. Okay, 538 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's just another way of putting it. 539 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: It's just again, we know about cells. We know that 540 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: cells currency is electricity or that they can transmit electricity. 541 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: So therefore maybe those that were on a cellular level, 542 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: some people are picking it up. And that's what dowsing is. 543 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: It's it's that same tradition. Now we understand something a 544 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: little more about the universe's figure out how it applies 545 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: to dowsing. Right, perhaps it is the when in terms 546 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: of human bodies, it is the soul. Perhaps you know, 547 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: maybe that's dowsing is the is the window to the soul. 548 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: I thought the eyes were Nope, that's wrong. It's dowsing 549 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: as far as modern science goes. And this is something 550 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: that you reminded me that we talked about in our 551 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: Wigia Boards episode, is that people were doing this with 552 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: their hands with something that's called idiomotor movements, which is 553 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: your muscles are twitching because of some kind of subconscious 554 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: mental activity that's going on. Yes, and that ties into 555 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: that last explanation I was mentioning about the cells and 556 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: the electricity. They were basically saying like, yeah, that's totally correct. 557 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,239 Speaker 1: The ideomotor movements are triggered by the emanations from the 558 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: ground that enter your cells and trigger your muscle movement 559 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: unconscious to you. Yeah, someone may be good at finding 560 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: water because they've spent a lot of time in a 561 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: particular area finding water, and there they have this subconscious 562 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: thing to where they're picking up on the vegetation or 563 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: the way the ground is and they don't realize it. 564 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: So then they'll stop at a place that their body 565 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: is saying, here is water, and it's translating to that 566 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: idiomotor movement making the rod dip. Right. That's one explanation, right, 567 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:32,239 Speaker 1: that they have some sort of what's called non conscious intelligence. Okay, Um. 568 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: The other explanation I was saying. Is like they were saying, No, 569 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: the water or the ore itself is putting something up 570 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: from the ground that's triggering your muscles to engage in 571 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: the idiomotor movement. So they're both saying, yes, there's idiomotor movement. 572 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: The dows or the people the person holding the dowsing 573 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: rod is causing these movements without being aware of it. 574 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: But the different explanations of why is that either the 575 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: person is noticing some vegetation that they're out of where 576 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: they have linked to water unconsciously, right, or the other 577 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: one is that the water itself is emanating something that's 578 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: triggering that idea motor movement in the person. It's a 579 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: little more than potato potato that there's a pretty big 580 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: difference between those two, even though they share the majority 581 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: of the explanation in common. No, I agree, they're quite different. 582 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're out there screaming at your phone, guys, 583 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: there's water under the ground all over the place, So 584 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,479 Speaker 1: anyone can take a couple of coat hangers and dig 585 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: down twelve feet and find water. Probably the YouTuber acknowledges 586 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: this and says, yeah, there's water all over the place. 587 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: He said, but some places are better to get water 588 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: than others because you don't just go dig a well 589 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: anywhere on your property. You try and home in on 590 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: a place that has got you know, better water, more 591 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: readily available to pool and where you can get it easier. 592 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: That's why people bring in geologists. That's why people bring 593 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: in dowsers. They have done experiments where I think BBC 594 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: Science Focus reported on them, where they did like randomized 595 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: experiments with water pipes underground, they found that dowsers had 596 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: no success at finding the water. There have been other 597 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: experiments under control conditions where they find that dowsers don't 598 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: do any better at finding water than chance would. Our 599 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,240 Speaker 1: old buddy James Randy offered a million dollars to anyone 600 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: that could prove it. That has not gone claimed to 601 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: my knowledge, No, and not just proved that, but proved 602 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: like any real paranormal ability. Proving dowsing would have probably 603 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: won that prize for sure. Yeah. The thing is is 604 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: um if you're a if you're a dowser, if you're 605 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: a geologist, you poop poo dowsing. If you're a dowser, 606 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: you probably poopoo geology. And if you're involved in excavating 607 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: um wells, you probably poop poo both um. There was 608 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: a there was a guy interviewed in an Aon article 609 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: that Olivia turned up written by Lois Parshley, to where 610 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: the guy this guy whose job it was was to 611 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: excavate wells in California. As part of his job it 612 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: was to hire either a geologist or a dowser or both, 613 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: and he was saying, neither one's particularly good at at 614 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: reliably finding a good water source. They're both used different techniques, 615 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: but neither one's you know, dead on. So it's not 616 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,240 Speaker 1: like in this guy's mind, geology is just supplanted dowsing 617 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: in rural water thirsty areas because the geologists you pay 618 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: a lot more for a geologist and then they may 619 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: or may not turn up water, whereas the dowser you 620 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: pay I think I saw about a tenth of what 621 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: you pay a geologist for a day, and they may 622 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: or may not turn up water. So it just kind 623 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: of makes sense in that rural area, like, hey, if 624 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,879 Speaker 1: neither one's going to reliably turn up water, but there's 625 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: a chance either one will, I'm gonna go with the 626 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: person who charges away. There was also the case of 627 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: this science blogger from the UK, Sally Lapage, who was 628 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: having a water pipe installed, and I believe the UK company, 629 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: the water company sent out at dowser and Sally was like, 630 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: wait a minute, what is going on here? Like what 631 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: century are we living in? And the UK water company 632 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: kind of shrugged and Lapage did a little investigating and 633 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: found that ten out of twelve water companies in the 634 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: UK use water dowsing, and one of them, I believe, 635 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: the one that did her parents' house said in a 636 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: tweet a we found that some of the older methods 637 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: are just as effective as the new ones. We also 638 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: use drones and satellites. But you know, a little bit 639 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: of money spent toward dowsing is no big deal, whereas 640 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: a lot of other people were like, you shouldn't be 641 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: spending any of our money on this. Yeah, because again 642 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: it's pseudoscience, right, So yeah, you can understand how people 643 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 1: would be upset about that, and then at the same 644 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: time it really kind of undermines a lot of geologists work. 645 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: If water companies are using dowsers still too, I have 646 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: a question. I'm naive. I don't know a lot about machinery. 647 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,479 Speaker 1: Isn't there some kind of machine that can look into 648 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: the earth and find good water pretty easily. I would 649 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: guess that there is as well, but I don't necessarily 650 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: think so, because if I wouldn't geologists just be employing that, 651 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: And if so, why would they have a reputation for 652 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: not being able to find water very reliably? I mean, 653 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,439 Speaker 1: the answer is there can't be otherwise of course they'd 654 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: be using that, But like, I don't know, it seems 655 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: like some kind of seis mcgrab and someone a lot 656 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 1: smarter than me is going to explain why, which I 657 00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: that's what I love doing about the show. Someone's going 658 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: to explain to me and we'll read it on the air. 659 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: I would guess, though, Chuck at this point, So that 660 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: really cool tool where you put a shotgun shell in 661 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: and it stamps the earth and then it gets an 662 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: image back on radar or something. Yeah, that's what I'm 663 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: talking about, right. Those things are awesome, but I think 664 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: they only go so deep, and you're probably looking for 665 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: water much deeper than that. That would be my guess. 666 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: Like if I was watching a movie and it was 667 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: about one part of it had a family trying to 668 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: dig a well and they called up some guy, well, 669 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: wells are us came out and like just planted some 670 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: funky machine down on the earth and and he said, 671 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: this thing's gonna it's on wheels, and it's gonna drive 672 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: around this acre of property and tell you exactly where 673 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: the water is. I would totally believe that's a thing. 674 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: Sure I would too. And in the exact same way 675 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: people who hire dowsers and watch somebody walk around their 676 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,280 Speaker 1: property with the stick believe what they see too. Probably 677 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a very good movie, but that is a huge, 678 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: huge area for improvement from what I can tell researching this. 679 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: Unless somehow dousing community has managed to completely science silence 680 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: the geological community as far as like water finding goes, 681 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: I don't. It just seems like the geologists aren't like, 682 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: of course we can find water, and here's how. I 683 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: just haven't really seen it that where there's like this 684 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: reliable way to find water. Yeah, I just don't understand it. 685 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 1: So if you're a geologist who finds water, we would 686 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: love to hear how you do what you do and 687 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: how reliable it is. Yeah, one more thing, chuck, before 688 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: we go. In that AEON article, there was mention of 689 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: a study that was done at the University of British 690 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 1: Columbia by a psychologist named Helene Gaucho and she is 691 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: the one who seems to have turned up that idea 692 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,479 Speaker 1: of non conscious intelligence where people using a Wuiji board 693 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,439 Speaker 1: we're actually better at ants in questions. They got more 694 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,879 Speaker 1: questions right when they were using a Wuigi board than 695 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: when they weren't using a Wuiji board, which is really 696 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: really weird. And so Gaucheou explained it by saying, like, 697 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: we might have some type of intelligence or intellect or 698 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: memory that we can't access consciously, but if we kind 699 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: of put the power of answering off onto something else, 700 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: like a Wuiji board, were able to access it because 701 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: I guess we get our conscious mind out of the 702 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: way a little bit. And that kind of was applied 703 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: to this idea of dowsers that these people, like you said, 704 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: could recognize vegetation in the wild. There's certain kinds of 705 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: rocks that suggested there's water somewhere, and they didn't realize 706 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: that they've done this, that they've made that connection, but 707 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: it's still there. It's non conscious intelligence, and when they're 708 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: holding those dowsing rods, they're able to kind of put 709 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: the power of explaining into the dowsing rod and access 710 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 1: that nonconscious intel diligence, and that that's how they'd turn 711 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: up water when they managed to turn up water. Interesting. 712 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: I thought that was pretty interesting too. Well, I certainly 713 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: don't have everything figured out, so who knows? Who knows? Well, 714 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: if you're a member of the geological community, let us 715 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 1: know how you find water and how reliable it is. 716 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear that. And since I spoke to 717 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: the geological community directly, that means, of course it's time 718 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: for listener mail. I'm going to call this overdue read. 719 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: This came in at the end of last year, and 720 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: this is from Emily Kenyon and the UK okay specifically 721 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: in England specifically, and I know I'll always get these 722 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: shires mispronounced, but Leicestershire. This is apparently we have gotten 723 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: Emily going on a lot of fun things because of 724 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: our show. I want to say thanks for all the 725 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: excellent work. Let you know that your podcast has I'm 726 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,160 Speaker 1: sure we'll continue to make subtle and positive impacts on 727 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 1: my life. And Emily listened to some highlights and now 728 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: have an active post up here composting episode. Very nice 729 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,919 Speaker 1: we now regularly have breakfast for tea as I wanted 730 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: every breakfast you discussed in that episode, but as we 731 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: don't breakfast together as a family to solve the problem. Okay, okay. 732 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: I asked for the book Radium Girls by Kate Moore 733 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: for Christmas from the Dial Painters episode and I've just 734 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: finished it. It was stunning, rage inducing, and inspiring all 735 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: at once, and I just ordered a copy for a friend. 736 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,879 Speaker 1: Very nice. I'm planning on making the water Shed fried 737 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: Chicken recipe this week off the back of the Fried 738 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: Chicken episode. Nice. That's gonna knock your socks off. And 739 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: my house has never been cleaner and my garden more 740 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,279 Speaker 1: well kept since I found you guys during Lockdown. You 741 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 1: made pottering around a joy, learning and chuckling at the 742 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,360 Speaker 1: same time, although I'm with Chuck on the economic stuff, 743 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: which is to say, I guess no. Thank you, thanks 744 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: again for all these positive impacts on my life, and 745 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: Happy New Year to you guys and the team from 746 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: Emily Emily Kenyon. Thanks a lot, Emily. That's fantastic. I'm 747 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,439 Speaker 1: glad we could have some positive effects on your life. 748 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,879 Speaker 1: That was very nice. Chuck, good good selection. It's good. 749 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: If you want to be like Emily and let us 750 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,359 Speaker 1: know how we've impacted your life, hopefully for the better, 751 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: you can send us an email. It's stuff podcast at 752 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production 753 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the 754 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 755 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 1: favorite shows.