WEBVTT - The Quest for Cyberimmortality 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:14.040 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.239 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And uh, 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:22.120 you know, Julie, I had an an interesting, uh experience recently. 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.239 I mean it was other things too, but there were 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.960 aspects of it they were interesting. Um my father died um, 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.200 which of course comes with a lot of shock and 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:37.240 a lot of emotional um turmoil. But but the technology, 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.760 modern technology seems to make these things flow a little different. 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.400 Like after I talked to him on the phone like 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:46.360 earlier in the day and then I got this call 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.000 that he was dead, and uh and so, I mean 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:52.800 no knowing that I knew he was dead, but I 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.160 picked up my cell phone and I, for you know, 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:57.000 some reason, I pulled him up on that and I 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.640 called him, and of course it went straight to his 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:04.040 answer machine and I heard this electronical way message this 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.199 question posed to me, you know, out of the void, 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:09.960 and then I I left my response. You know that? 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:12.720 And uh, you know this in the sense is you know, 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:14.480 it's the same message I've heard when I've called him 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.200 and missed him. Uh, you know, or you know, or 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:18.520 called him when I was in the middle of something, 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.679 you know, many times before. Um, but there was this 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.480 strange feeling, you know, of of conversing with the technology 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.760 of a person that lives on after that person is gone, 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.200 like this technological remnant of your Yeah, like little like 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:36.160 technological pieces of my father, you know, insignificant pieces, to 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.880 be sure, but but pieces all the same. So, you know, 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.840 since I've like I've saved the messages that he'd left me, 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.679 I've and I you know, and I found myself wondering 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.840 things like, oh, what have I recorded our last phone call? 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.200 Because you know, I have this recording device. I could 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.360 have done it. I do it all the time for interviews. 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:54.040 If I had you know, if i'd only you know, 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:59.120 had any inkling and uh. So it's you end up 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:01.760 questioning what if what if I could What if I 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:03.440 could have done this? What else would I have done? 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.720 What if I could have preserved him digitally in some way? 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:11.200 You know? And uh and then the other question is 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.280 there any sense to that at all? Is that just well, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.920 I don't know. I mean, we have been documenting ourselves, 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.960 you know, since since we I think became aware of ourselves. 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.359 You know, how to put it best, but I mean 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.079 if you think about the you know, the the Dagara type, right, 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.840 you know, all of a sudden, it was photographs were 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:35.200 widely used, and that was a different way of remembering 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.679 our loved ones and going back to the memory which 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.480 has been so important to us. Um. So it kind 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.560 of makes sense that as we are, you know, smack 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.920 dab in the digital age now that we began to 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:54.720 layer these different pieces of our chiving together. Yeah, A 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.840 couple of interesting examples come to mind. Um. I mean, 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:00.720 for starters, of course, any time someone has written something 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.280 or created something, most of those creations continue to exist 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.959 in some form after the the author or the artist 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:10.280 has passed away. So you know, a book becomes a 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.320 remnant of the person. Um. You know, a song they 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.800 wrote becomes a remnant. Um. I cannot but think of 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.920 Mark Twain's biography or the volumes in his bot biography 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.280 that are coming out a hundred years after his death 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.080 right that stipulation that it could not be published until 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.240 one hundred years after his death right, which which on 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.600 one hand, that's pretty uh, you know, pretty ballsy to 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:32.320 be like, yeah, a hundred years from now, they're still 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.760 going to be craving me. So, yeah, that's Mark Twain, right, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.880 but but but also it feels kind of eerie. It's like, hey, 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:41.880 Mark Twain has a new book out. He's been dead 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.119 a century, but here's here's this new book and her 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:48.320 words that next to no one has heard before from him, right, 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.880 and and a different understanding of him because I guess 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.560 he felt comfortable in and sharing that information only one 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.520 hundred years after his death, which is pretty interesting. Yeah. 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:01.480 And the example that comes to mind, and this one 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:06.160 is also non electronic. Uh. Happened on a recent episode 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:10.400 of This American Life, the NBR radio show Slash podcast 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.960 uh and it was titled parent Trapped with the episode 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.160 and there was a segment about a sixteen year old 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.120 girl named Rebecca and her mom died of cancer. But 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.960 before the mom died, she wrote the series of letters 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.080 to be delivered each year after death, one uh, one 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.000 for for each birthday that Rebecca would have in the 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:33.440 years afterwards years thirteen years, and then one letter to 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.520 be delivered to her on the day of her her wedding. 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:40.720 So and and this is this was just a fascinating 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.360 study until like into these you know, these missives sent 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.559 off from you know, in a way, from beyond the grave, 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.359 because like the first the first one she receives a 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.040 year after um after her death, and it's you know, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.320 it's emotional, it's but it's comforting somehow, you know, you're 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.680 hearing from this person. But as the years roll on, 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.880 they become less comforting, become these grief bombs that go 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.480 off each year to the point where she's kind of 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.200 dreading them. Um and the and the mother that is 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.520 conversing or there is still this mother of you know, 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.039 five years ago, six years ago, seven years years ago, 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.680 talking to a version of her that doesn't really exist 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.840 anymore because we change. You know, the person I was 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:18.680 a year ago ago isn't the person I am now. 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:20.599 The person I'm going to be in a year isn't 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.839 the person I am now. So you get this this 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:27.840 increasingly disjointed conversation across time, uh, because it's like her 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.760 mother's projections of who she wants her to be, right, 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.200 and she's evolving as a person, and that's not matching 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:38.279 up right, right, So we bring we bring these examples 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.720 then into a discussion of cyber immortality or digital immortality, 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:47.880 and the idea that the more technological, um, stuff that 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.880 we pile onto our being. Uh, the more it becomes 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.680 possible for that stuff to live on after we're dead, 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:55.919 and then what does that mean? And how do we 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.000 process this and when what good does it do ultimately? Well? 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.159 And what's so interesting to me too, is that it 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.440 does become like an afterlife for us, right, I mean 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.799 we you know in the biblical sense that there's there's 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:11.120 the heaven and afterlife right there where you continue to 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:16.480 exist in another form. You know, essentially, if you've got 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:21.280 cyber immortality, you're existing in another form, right, And it's 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.960 interesting to break down, um. And we're gonna take this 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.839 is a very scientific uh look at it and a 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.919 psychological look at it. Um. So you know, we're just 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.800 discounting religion for a second here, um, and we're going 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:36.560 to talk about why do we have this idea of 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.000 a soul and indeed, why do we have this idea 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:44.839 of a mind? And psychologist Paul Bloom argues that humans 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.400 imagine that we have souls because the human brain has 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:51.159 no awareness of its own functioning, Right, we falsely perceive 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.720 ourselves to be separate from our bodies, I mean, our 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.640 brain can we've discussed in the past how our brain 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.279 can wrap itself around everything except itself. So we have mind, 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.400 so we have souls. I mean the bulk of our 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:06.000 brain's processes exist outside of what we can experience and 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.200 what we do experience. We experience that a slight delay. 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.720 So um, so we have to compartmentalize at someone would 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.040 we end up viewing ourselves as being outside of our bodies. 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.040 So along with this argument, according to science author William 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.720 Simms Bainbridge, religion enables us to turn the idea of 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.120 the soul um turned to the idea of the soul 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.280 to achieve highly desired rewards that are unattainable in the 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:34.240 real world, like living forever or being becoming reunited with 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.360 loved ones and friends that we've lost. Yeah, and it's 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.080 very interesting that in the Bainbridge article from the futurist 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.760 Um I think that was from two thousand and six. Yes, 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:47.160 pretty prescient stuff, right, because there he's talking about how 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.760 it's very possible that technology could supplant some of the 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.400 ways in which religion is used. And again there's that 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:59.360 idea of the afterlife, this idea that there's an assurance 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.600 that there's meaning to our lives that there's some sort 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:06.720 of flicker of our existence that extends beyond our mortality, right, um, 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.440 and then create an archive of our memories that we 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:14.120 could transfer to AI surrogates. He talks about this. Articles 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:18.520 like robots, avatars and distributed intelligence would essentially do that job. 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.280 Or like a virtual world that you might you know, 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.680 jack into where it's your you know, it's your childhood 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.880 living room and there's your father or your grant or 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:32.080 your uncle or or whoever, um, that you might converse 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.839 with them again Yeah, yeah, And I don't want to 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.280 jump ahead too much. But of course we know too 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.760 with the Blue Brain project that we are trying to 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.240 map our brains. There there are scientists that are trying 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.600 to do this with computer models and are doing with 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:50.559 a wrap brain right now. So we're trying to get 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.800 to that point where we understand how our brain works 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.520 and actually maybe see our consciousness in action. Right And 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.280 and of course we're obviously we're we're putting more and 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:04.040 more profiles out there, like our our Facebook profiles are 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:07.240 Twitter feeds, um, all these things, I mean, even our 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:11.880 cell phones are are various accounts are Flicker accounts. Um. 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.080 It kind of like the way I end up looking 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.560 at It's kind of like this exoskeleton that we build. 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:19.960 And uh and when the person inside that exo skeleton 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.559 goes away, you still have this this at least faint 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.480 form of them. It's kind of like a shade or 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.640 a ghost Stephen. Uh And and because what is the 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.440 Facebook profile or the blog of a of a dead 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.319 person but but a but a ghost and an electronic 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.760 ghost that's still out there. Uh. It may not be 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.600 interacting with us anymore, but to a certain extent, we 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:42.880 can interact with it, and we can. It's still there 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.640 as if they are alive. Right, there's there. You have 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.120 had some sort of trace of yourself uh on the 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.160 web right in cyberspace, which is it's fascinating to think 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.680 of that. And you actually sent me a really interesting 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.880 article about a company called Virtual Eternity, which is offering 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.520 an avatar that take the results of your Myers brig 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.120 personality test. Right, So, assuming that you're doing all of 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.960 this work while you're alive, right, um and then along 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.160 with all your memories and photos uh and and it 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:16.840 actually has a computing process that has an endless capacity 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.360 for data acquisition of you. Um. And it can then 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.400 interact with others and will share specific memories depending on 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.480 the clearance level of a family member or a friend. 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.680 So it's really interesting that you could set up this 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.920 avatar of yourself, fill it with all of your memories, 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.839 give it whether whatever information you want to give it, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:41.000 and then you live on for your relatives you know, 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.080 who knows, I guess forever for as long as the 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:50.120 Internet is alive, right, And and certain people have different 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:55.000 access two different emotions or information, which is kind of 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.439 creepy if you think about hackers, right, yeah, I mean 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.320 it's it's weird. I mean you could that's that's a 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.679 huge concern um because the more and more information one 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.640 puts into something like this, because because Bainbridge, he even 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.840 argued that the online memorial, like a website honoring someone 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.760 who's deceased, is in a sense of precursor to cyber immortality. 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.520 And then this avatar that we've just discussed is even 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.040 an even more robust model of it. And it's this 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.720 can if this continues to evolve, you know, you'll reach 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.000 the point where to create a to create a more 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.400 and more accurate simulation of a person, you'd have to 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.199 put more and more information to the point where you'd 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.120 have a lot of sensitive information because I think of 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.000 the things that make us who, that make us who 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.680 we are. There's a lot of stuff in the in 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.840 the architecture there that we don't want out in the public. Uh. 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.560 You know, we might, um, you know flippantly say oh 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.680 I wish I could take that memory away or or 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:49.760 that weird thing that I do away, But it makes 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.000 us who we are, and it's all a part of 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.480 the of the finished product. You know. We can't pick 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.520 and choose and then keep the form. You know, we 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.360 can't see the joinery in all things. Well, I mean 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.040 I look at it and I think this is something 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.160 that you can edit. This is a version of yourself 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.880 that you can edit and put out there and people 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.440 can visit, and then it's not really you. It's not 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.920 really you. But also we we all know the amount 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:17.600 of information that we're sharing online. So there's this different 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:21.800 picture of us that could be forming depending on access levels, right. Um. 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:26.040 I mean if you have a criminal record and uh, 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.800 and if that were released, that would certainly be information 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.680 that people could access. Um. So again there's this like 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:37.280 there's this idea of who we want to be in 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.120 our cyber immortality and whether or not that's attainable. Right, Well, 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.079 then you get into issues because remember it's kind of 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.360 like funerals, um. Uh, they're they're always This is tug 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.040 and pull um of where one you know that someone 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.440 might be well, so and so wouldn't have wanted this 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.200 to happen. But then it ultimately comes down to what 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.680 does the family want to happen? But then maybe there's 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.640 the what the immediate family wanted of this, uh, the 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.079 ceased individual, and what the uh the the friends wanted 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.440 or what other parts of the family wanted. So would 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.840 you reach a point where you had several different versions 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.120 of this person that were memorialized in some sort of 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.040 virtual setting, um, right, If nothing else, it just comes 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.600 from the fact of like like which which version in 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.160 the past? Like do you want the like? Some people 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.040 work may have been closer to John Doe a year 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.600 before he died versus people who knew him two decades ago, 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.720 and that's a very different person uh to have a 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:29.760 connection to yees. So I guess the question is could 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.880 you really get to the point where you could establish 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.920 those sort of complexities to to give a full picture 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.120 of who that person was, and like he said, everybody 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.680 has different relationships with people and um, and it brings 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:45.000 out different aspects of that person. So is that fully represented? 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.000 Is it possible? Again? From the article that you talked 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.959 about with Bainbridge, that's called Battle to Save Our Souls 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.440 by William Sims Fainbridge from the Futurists UM from two 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.920 thousand and six. Uh, he says, somewhat farther in the future, 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.040 we can expect the development of rigorous means for recording 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:05.200 and classifying all of the persons, perhaps fifty episodic memories, 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.360 that is, memories of specific events and feelings that accompany them. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.800 A memory of the past event may exist as a 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:15.120 network of mental associations linking images of a few of 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:19.600 the people and things in a particular scenario. So he's 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.480 he's imagining this database and lo and behold. According to 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.640 The Daily Galaxy, the National Science Foundation has awarded a 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.880 half million dollar grant to the Universities of Central Florida 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.200 and Illinois at Chicago to explore how researchers might use 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:40.080 artificial intelligence, archiving, and computer imaging to create digital lifelike 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.320 versions of real people. And they're also using video game 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.960 type technology. So UM to your point, like, you know, 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.320 can you can you construct this this avatar of yourself 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.120 in your living room? Yeah? As possible. I mean, what 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.440 they're talking about is taking UM. The folks you know 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.520 at that National Science Foundation are basically talking about taking 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:04.000 this virtual eternity offering that this company does and really 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.720 sort of amping it up in terms of matrixing matrix 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:11.680 ng your emotions UM and your personality Myers Briggs, so 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.520 on and so forth, and and trying to have a 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:19.280 fuller representation. Wow. But the more full that representation becomes. 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:23.880 It also you see arguments about whether UM robots, computer 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.680 ais will eventually reach the point to where they have 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.720 rights of some kind, but where they're can considered UM 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.440 at least corporations if not people, you know, in terms 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.440 of the rights afforded to them. So like, do you 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.960 reach the point where who has the authority to say 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:45.360 copy that program that is the simulation of you? Or 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.760 if or ultimately, if you if you remove some some 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:49.640 more of the the ideas of the soul and you 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.000 get down to the idea of of who we are 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.600 is information in our brain, then you're then then what's 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:58.680 the difference between that and this version and the computer 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:00.960 as it grows more and more perfect, Who has the 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:02.840 right to copy it? Who has the right to delete it? 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.240 Is deleting it? Murder? Um? Right, that's the right to 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.600 talk mean to it? You know? Is that I mean it? 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:13.600 Should we feel ethically, um crappy if we if we 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.200 pull up a program of our uncle Carl and we 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.240 just go in and tell him how elpset we are 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.840 when he uh, you know, didn't eat the neat loaf 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.160 we prepared, uh, you know six Christmases ago. Well, and 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.200 even if you could perfect it and you had this database, um, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.520 basically of of a loved one, um, and you could 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.840 you could take let's say, the response to a questionnaires, 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.920 a bunch of questionnaires if that person filled out, and 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.680 you could feed that into an automated decision support system 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.840 so that it could interact with you, and uh in 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.120 a way that felt realistic. It's still as as we 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.280 talked about, um with the letters. You know, this this thing, 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.120 this person that you knew, is now interacting with you 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.000 at a much later date, and you're a different person. 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.160 So it's still not going to be the person you 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:04.280 I thought was the person, right, because they can't recognize you, 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.720 they can't recognize change. Presumably this, this type of technology 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.199 isn't going to be that complex. Yeah. And if you 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.000 were to take the simulation of you know, say you know, 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.640 a deceased parent and put them in like a virtual 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.040 sandbox world, I mean you'd have to like, how do 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.199 how does that work? They would have to continue in 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.560 a way, they'd have to continue a separate timeline or something, 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.200 you know it like, they would have to It would 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.280 be hard to keep them if you kept them the same, 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.320 that would be a problem. But then also continuing to 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.239 allow them to develop into a new person in this 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:39.160 program form would would seem to be really complex. And 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.359 also what you brought up is this idea of ownership, right, 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.800 so who owns this this virtual representation of your loved one? Yeah? 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.719 And can they charge? Are they charging you for it? 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.240 Like where you are they charging you for it? What 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.760 happens twenty five years down the road if they happen 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.919 to sell the company or you know, and and what 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.160 what happens is we continue to lay are on all 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:06.280 this different data um in cyberspace about ourselves to do 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.720 you know, does this do these sort of avatars get 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:14.000 shuttled away somewhere. Do they exist indefinitely? Um? Is it 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.920 feasible that you could have tangent generations down from where 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.480 you are now being able to access all of their 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:26.280 their different relatives and look at the various pieces of information, right, 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.560 I mean is the Internet that deep? Yeah? And we 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.080 talk about identity theft now, but if you had this 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.399 much information online, it would it would amount to soul 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:39.200 theft or mind theft and h yeah, which is worse 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.520 than your credit card number. I was thinking about that 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.920 if you took what is available today, right, if you 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:46.840 just took um that like the Virtual Alternity, like the 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.199 company that's doing that. And let's say my grandmother had 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.639 participated in this and we had our Myers Briggs and 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.160 we had all of her memories and her photos. Now 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.160 let's say that you took what the National Science Foundation 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.919 is doing and doing a more deep archive having of 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.679 this person. And then now let's say that you marry 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.040 that with the Blue Brain technology, right, a Blue Brain 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:13.080 Project technology which again is mapping the human brain um 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:17.040 in precise cellular detail and it's simulating neural activity. Let's 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.159 say that they, you know, had built my grandmother's brain 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:24.360 in that sense, who's to say that someone couldn't then 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.600 take basically this blueprint of my grandmother and use her 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.639 in in a robot or you know, for advertising. Advertising 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:33.920 company buys copies of a bunch of these, like we 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.200 want to really market the grandma's, so give me, you know, 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:41.000 give me you know, fifty dead grandma minds and let 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.280 me throw a whole bunch of product ideas at them, 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.080 like right, And it's kind of and you can see 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.800 how that would be so intriguing and so seductive because 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:53.040 it would be a very real feeling representation of someone's life, 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:56.439 for their feelings or their thoughts, and used in this 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.800 marketing way which would really sort of tug at the 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.560 heart strings of people, right right, Um, but you know, 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:06.360 and of course I'm awfulizing there, but it's possible. Yeah, 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:10.359 I'm awfulizing. I think that's an Oprah term. Okay, Um, 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.720 but you know I'm saying, okay, what really, what is 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.359 there's no legislation around this, right, there are no rules 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:17.399 around it, And I think that's why we're bringing it 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.320 up and saying, okay, you can you can see right 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.440 now what's in existence, and you can see the roadmap 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:25.639 going forward, that there's a real possibility that these versions 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.119 of ourselves, multiple versions of ourselves could exist. Um, just 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.560 pretty fascinating. Yeah, like yeah, And and to go back 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.440 to the letter that the thirteen year old letter from 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.919 her mom, you know, at what point would you you know, 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:42.920 it seems like a good idea at first to cyber 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.680 immortalize a deceased loved one, but then you reach the 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:48.439 point where it's like, well, well, heck, I guess I 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.199 have to go out and kill the electronic ghost of 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.520 my my dead parent because they're not they're not benefiting 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.359 me anymore. And it's now it's just kind of creepy. 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.240 Or now it's just traumatic. It feels like you're haunted. Yeah. 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.600 Another aspect of this that was brought up in the 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:09.760 bain Bridge Futurist article is that you could use it 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.560 very practically right now as a sort of backup database 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.240 to your brain. Right. Um, and this type of effective 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.840 computing could help inform other devices, such as robots, to 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:23.199 better respond to you depending on your mental and physical states, 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:25.280 which is sort of interesting, right that that piece of 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.400 AI in which we could have this sort of robot 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.399 that is enhancing the way that we think and that 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.840 it's anticipating and maybe even I was thinking about about this, 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:37.720 looking at the blind spots in the way that we think. 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.440