1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And uh, 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: you know, Julie, I had an an interesting, uh experience recently. 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: I mean it was other things too, but there were 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: aspects of it they were interesting. Um my father died um, 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: which of course comes with a lot of shock and 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: a lot of emotional um turmoil. But but the technology, 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: modern technology seems to make these things flow a little different. 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: Like after I talked to him on the phone like 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: earlier in the day and then I got this call 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: that he was dead, and uh and so, I mean 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: no knowing that I knew he was dead, but I 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: picked up my cell phone and I, for you know, 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: some reason, I pulled him up on that and I 16 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: called him, and of course it went straight to his 17 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: answer machine and I heard this electronical way message this 18 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 1: question posed to me, you know, out of the void, 19 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: and then I I left my response. You know that? 20 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: And uh, you know this in the sense is you know, 21 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: it's the same message I've heard when I've called him 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: and missed him. Uh, you know, or you know, or 23 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: called him when I was in the middle of something, 24 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: you know, many times before. Um, but there was this 25 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: strange feeling, you know, of of conversing with the technology 26 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: of a person that lives on after that person is gone, 27 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: like this technological remnant of your Yeah, like little like 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: technological pieces of my father, you know, insignificant pieces, to 29 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: be sure, but but pieces all the same. So, you know, 30 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: since I've like I've saved the messages that he'd left me, 31 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: I've and I you know, and I found myself wondering 32 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: things like, oh, what have I recorded our last phone call? 33 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: Because you know, I have this recording device. I could 34 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: have done it. I do it all the time for interviews. 35 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: If I had you know, if i'd only you know, 36 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: had any inkling and uh. So it's you end up 37 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: questioning what if what if I could What if I 38 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: could have done this? What else would I have done? 39 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: What if I could have preserved him digitally in some way? 40 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: You know? And uh and then the other question is 41 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: there any sense to that at all? Is that just well, 42 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, we have been documenting ourselves, 43 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: you know, since since we I think became aware of ourselves. 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: You know, how to put it best, but I mean 45 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: if you think about the you know, the the Dagara type, right, 46 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, all of a sudden, it was photographs were 47 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: widely used, and that was a different way of remembering 48 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: our loved ones and going back to the memory which 49 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: has been so important to us. Um. So it kind 50 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: of makes sense that as we are, you know, smack 51 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: dab in the digital age now that we began to 52 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: layer these different pieces of our chiving together. Yeah, A 53 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: couple of interesting examples come to mind. Um. I mean, 54 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: for starters, of course, any time someone has written something 55 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: or created something, most of those creations continue to exist 56 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: in some form after the the author or the artist 57 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: has passed away. So you know, a book becomes a 58 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: remnant of the person. Um. You know, a song they 59 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: wrote becomes a remnant. Um. I cannot but think of 60 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: Mark Twain's biography or the volumes in his bot biography 61 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: that are coming out a hundred years after his death 62 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: right that stipulation that it could not be published until 63 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: one hundred years after his death right, which which on 64 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: one hand, that's pretty uh, you know, pretty ballsy to 65 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: be like, yeah, a hundred years from now, they're still 66 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: going to be craving me. So, yeah, that's Mark Twain, right, 67 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: but but but also it feels kind of eerie. It's like, hey, 68 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: Mark Twain has a new book out. He's been dead 69 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: a century, but here's here's this new book and her 70 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: words that next to no one has heard before from him, right, 71 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: and and a different understanding of him because I guess 72 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: he felt comfortable in and sharing that information only one 73 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: hundred years after his death, which is pretty interesting. Yeah. 74 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: And the example that comes to mind, and this one 75 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: is also non electronic. Uh. Happened on a recent episode 76 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: of This American Life, the NBR radio show Slash podcast 77 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: uh and it was titled parent Trapped with the episode 78 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: and there was a segment about a sixteen year old 79 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: girl named Rebecca and her mom died of cancer. But 80 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: before the mom died, she wrote the series of letters 81 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: to be delivered each year after death, one uh, one 82 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: for for each birthday that Rebecca would have in the 83 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: years afterwards years thirteen years, and then one letter to 84 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: be delivered to her on the day of her her wedding. 85 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: So and and this is this was just a fascinating 86 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: study until like into these you know, these missives sent 87 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,559 Speaker 1: off from you know, in a way, from beyond the grave, 88 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: because like the first the first one she receives a 89 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: year after um after her death, and it's you know, 90 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: it's emotional, it's but it's comforting somehow, you know, you're 91 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: hearing from this person. But as the years roll on, 92 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: they become less comforting, become these grief bombs that go 93 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: off each year to the point where she's kind of 94 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: dreading them. Um and the and the mother that is 95 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: conversing or there is still this mother of you know, 96 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: five years ago, six years ago, seven years years ago, 97 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: talking to a version of her that doesn't really exist 98 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: anymore because we change. You know, the person I was 99 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: a year ago ago isn't the person I am now. 100 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: The person I'm going to be in a year isn't 101 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: the person I am now. So you get this this 102 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: increasingly disjointed conversation across time, uh, because it's like her 103 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: mother's projections of who she wants her to be, right, 104 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: and she's evolving as a person, and that's not matching 105 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: up right, right, So we bring we bring these examples 106 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: then into a discussion of cyber immortality or digital immortality, 107 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: and the idea that the more technological, um, stuff that 108 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: we pile onto our being. Uh, the more it becomes 109 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: possible for that stuff to live on after we're dead, 110 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: and then what does that mean? And how do we 111 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: process this and when what good does it do ultimately? Well? 112 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: And what's so interesting to me too, is that it 113 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: does become like an afterlife for us, right, I mean 114 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: we you know in the biblical sense that there's there's 115 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: the heaven and afterlife right there where you continue to 116 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: exist in another form. You know, essentially, if you've got 117 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: cyber immortality, you're existing in another form, right, And it's 118 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: interesting to break down, um. And we're gonna take this 119 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: is a very scientific uh look at it and a 120 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: psychological look at it. Um. So you know, we're just 121 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: discounting religion for a second here, um, and we're going 122 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: to talk about why do we have this idea of 123 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: a soul and indeed, why do we have this idea 124 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: of a mind? And psychologist Paul Bloom argues that humans 125 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: imagine that we have souls because the human brain has 126 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: no awareness of its own functioning, Right, we falsely perceive 127 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: ourselves to be separate from our bodies, I mean, our 128 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: brain can we've discussed in the past how our brain 129 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: can wrap itself around everything except itself. So we have mind, 130 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: so we have souls. I mean the bulk of our 131 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: brain's processes exist outside of what we can experience and 132 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: what we do experience. We experience that a slight delay. 133 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: So um, so we have to compartmentalize at someone would 134 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: we end up viewing ourselves as being outside of our bodies. 135 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: So along with this argument, according to science author William 136 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: Simms Bainbridge, religion enables us to turn the idea of 137 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: the soul um turned to the idea of the soul 138 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: to achieve highly desired rewards that are unattainable in the 139 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: real world, like living forever or being becoming reunited with 140 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: loved ones and friends that we've lost. Yeah, and it's 141 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: very interesting that in the Bainbridge article from the futurist 142 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: Um I think that was from two thousand and six. Yes, 143 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: pretty prescient stuff, right, because there he's talking about how 144 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: it's very possible that technology could supplant some of the 145 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: ways in which religion is used. And again there's that 146 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: idea of the afterlife, this idea that there's an assurance 147 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: that there's meaning to our lives that there's some sort 148 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: of flicker of our existence that extends beyond our mortality, right, um, 149 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: and then create an archive of our memories that we 150 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: could transfer to AI surrogates. He talks about this. Articles 151 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: like robots, avatars and distributed intelligence would essentially do that job. 152 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: Or like a virtual world that you might you know, 153 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: jack into where it's your you know, it's your childhood 154 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: living room and there's your father or your grant or 155 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: your uncle or or whoever, um, that you might converse 156 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: with them again Yeah, yeah, And I don't want to 157 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: jump ahead too much. But of course we know too 158 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: with the Blue Brain project that we are trying to 159 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: map our brains. There there are scientists that are trying 160 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: to do this with computer models and are doing with 161 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: a wrap brain right now. So we're trying to get 162 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: to that point where we understand how our brain works 163 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: and actually maybe see our consciousness in action. Right And 164 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: and of course we're obviously we're we're putting more and 165 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: more profiles out there, like our our Facebook profiles are 166 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: Twitter feeds, um, all these things, I mean, even our 167 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: cell phones are are various accounts are Flicker accounts. Um. 168 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: It kind of like the way I end up looking 169 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: at It's kind of like this exoskeleton that we build. 170 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: And uh and when the person inside that exo skeleton 171 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: goes away, you still have this this at least faint 172 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: form of them. It's kind of like a shade or 173 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: a ghost Stephen. Uh And and because what is the 174 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: Facebook profile or the blog of a of a dead 175 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: person but but a but a ghost and an electronic 176 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: ghost that's still out there. Uh. It may not be 177 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: interacting with us anymore, but to a certain extent, we 178 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: can interact with it, and we can. It's still there 179 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: as if they are alive. Right, there's there. You have 180 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: had some sort of trace of yourself uh on the 181 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: web right in cyberspace, which is it's fascinating to think 182 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: of that. And you actually sent me a really interesting 183 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: article about a company called Virtual Eternity, which is offering 184 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: an avatar that take the results of your Myers brig 185 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: personality test. Right, So, assuming that you're doing all of 186 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: this work while you're alive, right, um and then along 187 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: with all your memories and photos uh and and it 188 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: actually has a computing process that has an endless capacity 189 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: for data acquisition of you. Um. And it can then 190 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: interact with others and will share specific memories depending on 191 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: the clearance level of a family member or a friend. 192 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: So it's really interesting that you could set up this 193 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: avatar of yourself, fill it with all of your memories, 194 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: give it whether whatever information you want to give it, 195 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: and then you live on for your relatives you know, 196 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: who knows, I guess forever for as long as the 197 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: Internet is alive, right, And and certain people have different 198 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: access two different emotions or information, which is kind of 199 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: creepy if you think about hackers, right, yeah, I mean 200 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: it's it's weird. I mean you could that's that's a 201 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: huge concern um because the more and more information one 202 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: puts into something like this, because because Bainbridge, he even 203 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: argued that the online memorial, like a website honoring someone 204 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: who's deceased, is in a sense of precursor to cyber immortality. 205 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: And then this avatar that we've just discussed is even 206 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: an even more robust model of it. And it's this 207 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: can if this continues to evolve, you know, you'll reach 208 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: the point where to create a to create a more 209 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: and more accurate simulation of a person, you'd have to 210 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: put more and more information to the point where you'd 211 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: have a lot of sensitive information because I think of 212 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: the things that make us who, that make us who 213 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: we are. There's a lot of stuff in the in 214 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: the architecture there that we don't want out in the public. Uh. 215 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: You know, we might, um, you know flippantly say oh 216 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: I wish I could take that memory away or or 217 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: that weird thing that I do away, But it makes 218 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: us who we are, and it's all a part of 219 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: the of the finished product. You know. We can't pick 220 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: and choose and then keep the form. You know, we 221 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: can't see the joinery in all things. Well, I mean 222 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: I look at it and I think this is something 223 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: that you can edit. This is a version of yourself 224 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: that you can edit and put out there and people 225 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: can visit, and then it's not really you. It's not 226 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: really you. But also we we all know the amount 227 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: of information that we're sharing online. So there's this different 228 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: picture of us that could be forming depending on access levels, right. Um. 229 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: I mean if you have a criminal record and uh, 230 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: and if that were released, that would certainly be information 231 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: that people could access. Um. So again there's this like 232 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: there's this idea of who we want to be in 233 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: our cyber immortality and whether or not that's attainable. Right, Well, 234 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: then you get into issues because remember it's kind of 235 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: like funerals, um. Uh, they're they're always This is tug 236 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: and pull um of where one you know that someone 237 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: might be well, so and so wouldn't have wanted this 238 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: to happen. But then it ultimately comes down to what 239 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: does the family want to happen? But then maybe there's 240 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: the what the immediate family wanted of this, uh, the 241 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 1: ceased individual, and what the uh the the friends wanted 242 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: or what other parts of the family wanted. So would 243 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: you reach a point where you had several different versions 244 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: of this person that were memorialized in some sort of 245 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: virtual setting, um, right, If nothing else, it just comes 246 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: from the fact of like like which which version in 247 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: the past? Like do you want the like? Some people 248 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: work may have been closer to John Doe a year 249 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: before he died versus people who knew him two decades ago, 250 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: and that's a very different person uh to have a 251 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: connection to yees. So I guess the question is could 252 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: you really get to the point where you could establish 253 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: those sort of complexities to to give a full picture 254 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: of who that person was, and like he said, everybody 255 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: has different relationships with people and um, and it brings 256 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: out different aspects of that person. So is that fully represented? 257 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: Is it possible? Again? From the article that you talked 258 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: about with Bainbridge, that's called Battle to Save Our Souls 259 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: by William Sims Fainbridge from the Futurists UM from two 260 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: thousand and six. Uh, he says, somewhat farther in the future, 261 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: we can expect the development of rigorous means for recording 262 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: and classifying all of the persons, perhaps fifty episodic memories, 263 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: that is, memories of specific events and feelings that accompany them. 264 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: A memory of the past event may exist as a 265 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: network of mental associations linking images of a few of 266 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: the people and things in a particular scenario. So he's 267 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: he's imagining this database and lo and behold. According to 268 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: The Daily Galaxy, the National Science Foundation has awarded a 269 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: half million dollar grant to the Universities of Central Florida 270 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: and Illinois at Chicago to explore how researchers might use 271 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, archiving, and computer imaging to create digital lifelike 272 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: versions of real people. And they're also using video game 273 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: type technology. So UM to your point, like, you know, 274 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: can you can you construct this this avatar of yourself 275 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: in your living room? Yeah? As possible. I mean, what 276 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: they're talking about is taking UM. The folks you know 277 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: at that National Science Foundation are basically talking about taking 278 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: this virtual eternity offering that this company does and really 279 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: sort of amping it up in terms of matrixing matrix 280 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: ng your emotions UM and your personality Myers Briggs, so 281 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: on and so forth, and and trying to have a 282 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: fuller representation. Wow. But the more full that representation becomes. 283 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: It also you see arguments about whether UM robots, computer 284 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: ais will eventually reach the point to where they have 285 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: rights of some kind, but where they're can considered UM 286 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: at least corporations if not people, you know, in terms 287 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: of the rights afforded to them. So like, do you 288 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: reach the point where who has the authority to say 289 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: copy that program that is the simulation of you? Or 290 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: if or ultimately, if you if you remove some some 291 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: more of the the ideas of the soul and you 292 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: get down to the idea of of who we are 293 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: is information in our brain, then you're then then what's 294 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: the difference between that and this version and the computer 295 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: as it grows more and more perfect, Who has the 296 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: right to copy it? Who has the right to delete it? 297 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: Is deleting it? Murder? Um? Right, that's the right to 298 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: talk mean to it? You know? Is that I mean it? 299 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: Should we feel ethically, um crappy if we if we 300 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: pull up a program of our uncle Carl and we 301 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: just go in and tell him how elpset we are 302 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: when he uh, you know, didn't eat the neat loaf 303 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: we prepared, uh, you know six Christmases ago. Well, and 304 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: even if you could perfect it and you had this database, um, 305 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: basically of of a loved one, um, and you could 306 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: you could take let's say, the response to a questionnaires, 307 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of questionnaires if that person filled out, and 308 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: you could feed that into an automated decision support system 309 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: so that it could interact with you, and uh in 310 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: a way that felt realistic. It's still as as we 311 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: talked about, um with the letters. You know, this this thing, 312 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: this person that you knew, is now interacting with you 313 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: at a much later date, and you're a different person. 314 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: So it's still not going to be the person you 315 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: I thought was the person, right, because they can't recognize you, 316 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: they can't recognize change. Presumably this, this type of technology 317 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: isn't going to be that complex. Yeah. And if you 318 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: were to take the simulation of you know, say you know, 319 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: a deceased parent and put them in like a virtual 320 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: sandbox world, I mean you'd have to like, how do 321 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: how does that work? They would have to continue in 322 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: a way, they'd have to continue a separate timeline or something, 323 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: you know it like, they would have to It would 324 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: be hard to keep them if you kept them the same, 325 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: that would be a problem. But then also continuing to 326 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 1: allow them to develop into a new person in this 327 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: program form would would seem to be really complex. And 328 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: also what you brought up is this idea of ownership, right, 329 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: so who owns this this virtual representation of your loved one? Yeah? 330 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,719 Speaker 1: And can they charge? Are they charging you for it? 331 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: Like where you are they charging you for it? What 332 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: happens twenty five years down the road if they happen 333 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: to sell the company or you know, and and what 334 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: what happens is we continue to lay are on all 335 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: this different data um in cyberspace about ourselves to do 336 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: you know, does this do these sort of avatars get 337 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: shuttled away somewhere. Do they exist indefinitely? Um? Is it 338 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: feasible that you could have tangent generations down from where 339 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: you are now being able to access all of their 340 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: their different relatives and look at the various pieces of information, right, 341 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: I mean is the Internet that deep? Yeah? And we 342 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: talk about identity theft now, but if you had this 343 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: much information online, it would it would amount to soul 344 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: theft or mind theft and h yeah, which is worse 345 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: than your credit card number. I was thinking about that 346 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: if you took what is available today, right, if you 347 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: just took um that like the Virtual Alternity, like the 348 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: company that's doing that. And let's say my grandmother had 349 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: participated in this and we had our Myers Briggs and 350 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: we had all of her memories and her photos. Now 351 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: let's say that you took what the National Science Foundation 352 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: is doing and doing a more deep archive having of 353 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: this person. And then now let's say that you marry 354 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: that with the Blue Brain technology, right, a Blue Brain 355 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: Project technology which again is mapping the human brain um 356 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: in precise cellular detail and it's simulating neural activity. Let's 357 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: say that they, you know, had built my grandmother's brain 358 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: in that sense, who's to say that someone couldn't then 359 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: take basically this blueprint of my grandmother and use her 360 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: in in a robot or you know, for advertising. Advertising 361 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: company buys copies of a bunch of these, like we 362 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: want to really market the grandma's, so give me, you know, 363 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: give me you know, fifty dead grandma minds and let 364 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: me throw a whole bunch of product ideas at them, 365 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: like right, And it's kind of and you can see 366 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: how that would be so intriguing and so seductive because 367 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: it would be a very real feeling representation of someone's life, 368 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: for their feelings or their thoughts, and used in this 369 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: marketing way which would really sort of tug at the 370 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: heart strings of people, right right, Um, but you know, 371 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: and of course I'm awfulizing there, but it's possible. Yeah, 372 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: I'm awfulizing. I think that's an Oprah term. Okay, Um, 373 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: but you know I'm saying, okay, what really, what is 374 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: there's no legislation around this, right, there are no rules 375 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: around it, And I think that's why we're bringing it 376 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: up and saying, okay, you can you can see right 377 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: now what's in existence, and you can see the roadmap 378 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: going forward, that there's a real possibility that these versions 379 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: of ourselves, multiple versions of ourselves could exist. Um, just 380 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: pretty fascinating. Yeah, like yeah, And and to go back 381 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: to the letter that the thirteen year old letter from 382 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: her mom, you know, at what point would you you know, 383 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: it seems like a good idea at first to cyber 384 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: immortalize a deceased loved one, but then you reach the 385 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: point where it's like, well, well, heck, I guess I 386 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: have to go out and kill the electronic ghost of 387 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: my my dead parent because they're not they're not benefiting 388 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: me anymore. And it's now it's just kind of creepy. 389 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: Or now it's just traumatic. It feels like you're haunted. Yeah. 390 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: Another aspect of this that was brought up in the 391 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: bain Bridge Futurist article is that you could use it 392 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: very practically right now as a sort of backup database 393 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: to your brain. Right. Um, and this type of effective 394 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: computing could help inform other devices, such as robots, to 395 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: better respond to you depending on your mental and physical states, 396 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: which is sort of interesting, right that that piece of 397 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: AI in which we could have this sort of robot 398 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: that is enhancing the way that we think and that 399 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: it's anticipating and maybe even I was thinking about about this, 400 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: looking at the blind spots in the way that we think. 401 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: So that's very possible that we could use this technology 402 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: to try to approach maybe problems from a different angle. 403 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: Right if you have a copy of your brain essentially 404 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: that you can access and um and and play with. 405 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: But that it seems like we would reach the point 406 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: where like already we know we no longer know how 407 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: to spell because of Firefox and and spell check. We 408 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: don't know how to we haven't known how to do 409 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: simple math um. You know lookspt for mathematicians out there, 410 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: but a lot of us have forgotten how to do 411 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: simple math because we always have that calculator handy, first, 412 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: the pocket calculator, now the various calculators and all of 413 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: our gadgets. Well, so I see what you're saying, Get 414 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: to think. Do you just turn to your database and 415 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: go think, Okay, that's the algorithm for like what do 416 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: I want to eat for lunch today? And then I'll say, hey, 417 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: you want some pizza? Great? You know, and then do 418 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: we do we reach the tipping point between the person 419 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: and this technological exo skeleton to where the technology technological 420 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: exo skeleton is more the person than the flesh and 421 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: blood person at the core of it. Well, and already. 422 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: The interesting thing about that is that we already know 423 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: the online representations that we put out there and edit. 424 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: Our different version of ourselves are the friendlier, nicier, whatever, 425 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves most of the time, um, sometimes naked 426 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: or depending on the person. Yeah, you never know. But 427 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, the question is will people really want to 428 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: do they really want to talk to the real you 429 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: or the avatar you. You already have that in existence 430 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: right now distinction. Yeah, can you imagine all the different 431 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: layers you know that that might be possible to put 432 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 1: on top of that. Uh. The other use that this 433 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: technology could be um employed is with the elderly. They 434 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: could actually use portable digital devices documenting their lives to 435 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: help them remember facts, so they could kind of dive 436 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: back into their memories um to to help them sort 437 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: of um say, oh, that's my daughter visiting me, or 438 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: that's my grandchildren and so on and so forth. So 439 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: they would essentially be interacting with some of this technology. 440 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: But that reminded me so much of the vin Vendor's 441 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: film until the end of the world. And I won't 442 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: go into the plot, but I'll just say that in 443 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: a sort of quasi post apocalyptic world, people have access 444 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: to this type of technology and it's actually documenting their dreams. 445 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: So they're going into their past and they get completely 446 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: addicted to to these portable old devices showing them their 447 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: their previous life because of course they're you know, they're 448 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: living in like rotted out canyons or something. I don't 449 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: know if canyons can rot, but you get the idea. Yeah, 450 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: um and and post elliptic squalor um, And they keep 451 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: returning to this other part of their lives and they 452 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: become completely addicted. They quit eating, They just all they 453 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: want to do is review their memories from their dreams. 454 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: And so I thought, is it possible that you could 455 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: build something like this to the point where you do 456 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: you stop living in the present and you start mining 457 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: all the data of your own life. Yeah, Like I 458 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: could easily, Like when you're talking about the elderly, like 459 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: I would instantly imagine like two old dudes meeting each 460 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: other for the first time in retirement home, like both 461 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: of them just to sleep in their chairs while they're 462 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: um they're like forty or fifty something avatars conversed um 463 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: via USB, cab or something, you know, and or does 464 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: it come to the point where it's like, say, to 465 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: forty year olds meet and they're like, hey, how are 466 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: you going? And it's a two forty year olds meet 467 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: each other. They upload their uh, several different versions of 468 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: their past self so they can be too, because knowing 469 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: the current me isn't quite enough. I want the digital 470 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: copy of your thirty year old self to meet the 471 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: digital version of my thirty year old self, or you know, 472 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 1: in various you know, you could just go go crazy 473 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: with this vision of the future, and I will tell 474 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: you that that's something that to me, I would I 475 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: have to say, you know, if I'm eighty years old, 476 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: I would love to have because I would love to 477 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: be able to share with people the different things that 478 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: I did in my life, particularly if I had a 479 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: problem communicating because I had memory problems. If I could 480 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 1: just draw it up and be like, here's me, you know, 481 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: rocking out and I don't know something. Yeah, the old 482 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: you brings up with the memory problems, brings up the 483 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: young you, and then brates there for all of our 484 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: hard partying it's like, look what you did, I don't 485 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: remember anything now, so they can be our punching bags. 486 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, there's all sorts of possibilities here. But 487 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: back to the the the the real reality in in 488 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: our current time. Um, Facebook already has the thing where um, 489 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: when when you when you die, uh, your profile is memorialized. Uh. 490 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: And this is this is like right off and right 491 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: off the website. When a user passes away, we memorialize 492 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: their account to protect their privacy. Memorializing an account sets 493 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: the account privacy so that only confirmed friends can see 494 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: the profile or located in search, the wall remains so 495 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: friends and family can leave post in remembrance. Memorializing an 496 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: account also prevents anyone from logging into the account. And 497 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: to add a little extra that um, a recent estimate 498 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: put the number of US Facebook users who die annually 499 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: at something like um, which is you know, probably gonna 500 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: go up. Um. And then in the world of Twitter, 501 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: there's a really interesting thing like Yeah, Jonathan Strickland turned 502 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: me on to this. Who has an article by the 503 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: time is web this Uh, this episode comes out His 504 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: article on how stuff works website how digital immortality works 505 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: should be out so be sure to check out that 506 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: after you listen to this UM. But Jonathan told me 507 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: about this blogger by the name of Brian Brushwood who 508 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: teamed up with a web guru by the name of 509 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: Patrick Delante, and uh, they launched Afterlife. Me. That's a 510 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: f T E R L y f E dot m 511 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: e UM to pursue this idea of digital immortality. So 512 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: the ideas you create a dead man switch on your 513 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: online life, like every every time your birthday rolls around, 514 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: you need to go in and push her button. Otherwise 515 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: it's gonna activate the afterlife for you. In terms of 516 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: social media, which means you'll your Twitter account will start, 517 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: say throwing out random mundane um responses, or your Facebook 518 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of all like the smart alec things 519 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: that you could do. Yeah, like like Mark Twain with 520 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: the with the biography. Everyone's dead, so what does it matter. 521 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: But but then also your Facebook account would be programmed 522 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: to say give birthday, which is to to all your 523 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: friends and family on their on their birthdays, things of 524 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: that nature. Um And uh yeah, So the website is 525 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: just in its early stages right now that it's not 526 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: you can basically sign up and just get updates. On 527 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: the status of this. But it's an interesting like first 528 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: real stab at cyber immortality and uh and it and 529 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: it brings in all these questions the same you know, 530 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: to what extent is this weird and cool? With what 531 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: what extent is it comforting? Will it help with people 532 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: with their bereavement? And to what extent that would it 533 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: eventually become creepy? And yeah, of course, someone says, Man, 534 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to act call somebody at Twitter to 535 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: get them to turn off, you know, my best friends 536 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: Twitter account because it's no longer cute now it's just sad, right, Yeah, 537 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: I know this. And again, this is what's so fascinating 538 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: about this topic is, you know, technology again makes us 539 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: rethink a place in the world and and how to 540 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: manage our ideas of ourselves. They are left ones. Well, hey, 541 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: I have some missives from the void right here in 542 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: the form of uh, well first person as an email 543 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: that I'm particularly excited about. Uh. This one comes from 544 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: a listener by the name of Bruce, and Bruce says, 545 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: high folks, I was listening to a podcast of Yours 546 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: and a Long Drive. It was on viruses. Robert mentioned Maximilian, 547 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: the Big red robot in the Black Hole. Thanks much. 548 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: I built that robot many years ago working effects at Disney. 549 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,239 Speaker 1: That little blast in the past perked me right up. 550 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: I spent two years of my life working on that flip. 551 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: Thanks again for the indirect shout out regards Bruce. So 552 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: that was awesome, Yeah, because that that is a that 553 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: is a movie that I just grew up with. And 554 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: uh and and and I don't I don't know what 555 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: you call the affection that a like three year old 556 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: or five year old boy um has for a evil 557 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: red robot, but I definitely, yeah, I definitely had a 558 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: bot crush on Maximilian Um and uh and so that's 559 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: awesome too to hear that. Yeah, they The only thing 560 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: even close to that was when I was working for 561 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: a newspaper and tell Homes in a Sea. I've interviewed 562 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: a guy who ran a lokal antique store who helped 563 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: build the set the giant bed that they created for 564 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: the film Stephen King's Cat's Eye, because they have a 565 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: little troll who's like, you know, it's like yeah, big, 566 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: very little, little tiny guy and he's running around on 567 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: on this bed and jumping around. So they had to 568 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: create this enormous version of a for the scale of 569 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: the troll. Yeah, and create an enormous children's room with this, 570 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: like you know, like a bed two stories tall. And 571 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: he showed me all these pictures on it, so did 572 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: the No. No, he was enormous. But apparently the guy 573 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: telling me when I was talking to him that there 574 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: was an ongoing bet to see, um who could well 575 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: well to to see who could looks at what they 576 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: keep it tamped to? You could sleep in that bed first? Yeah, 577 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: but but anyway, that but that was cool, but Maximilian 578 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: is even cooler. So thanks, Bruce, really appreciate that. And um, 579 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: one little note, Um, so I threw out a question 580 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: on our Facebook pro wile which is blow the mind. 581 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: Uh you can look that is blow the mind on Facebook, 582 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: and we'll also blow the mind on Twitter. But I 583 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: put out the question what will five hundred years of 584 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: life due to the human mind, which is similar to 585 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here. Uh. And I put this 586 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: on the New House Stuff Works forums, So everybody out there, 587 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: you can log into the forum, create an account, log in, 588 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: and you you know, you can converse on the Facebook. 589 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: You can also confers on the forum and respond to 590 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: various articles, et cetera. Um But a listener by the 591 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: name of Richard responded, and he says, quote, it is 592 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: difficult to separate the biological from the mental and the brain. 593 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: They're connected, and so characteristics of the body follow into 594 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: the brain and thus the mind. I believe that the system, limitations, 595 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: and specs of the brain correspond to the body. It 596 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: seems that without the assistance of technology, our bodies are 597 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: meant to survive in the natural world. Between forty and 598 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: sixty years since the brain mind coevolved with the body, 599 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: it is reasonable to surmise that the specs are similar 600 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: for the brain mind. With that said, I think that 601 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: we have a certain capacity for experience in memory. When 602 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: we exceed this capacity, I believe that we begin to 603 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: feel certain fatigue set in that leads to depression and 604 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: thus um a, and thus we feel the need to 605 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: move on. So I thought that was some interesting commentary 606 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: there from Richard, and uh and uh some other people 607 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: have already responded with some cool stuff. You know. Yeah, 608 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: it's very thought provoking. Yeah, So you know, come onto 609 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 1: the Facebook or the Twitter or the forums and interact 610 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: with us. We'd love to hear your thoughts on all 611 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: these mind blowing questions. That's right, and you can always 612 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: drop us a line as well at blow the Mind 613 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: at house to works dot com. For more on this 614 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. 615 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast 616 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: icon in the upper right corner of our home page. 617 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: The how Stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. Download 618 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: it today on iTunes.