WEBVTT - Learned to Code

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<v Speaker 1>This is Red Pilled America. This Labor Day weekend, Red

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<v Speaker 1>America one story at a time. This episode was originally

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<v Speaker 1>broadcast on March 15th, 2019, and it's just as relevant

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<v Speaker 1>today as it was then.

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<v Speaker 2>Enjoy.

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<v Speaker 1>Silicon Valley is known for its ruthless competition, constantly battling

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<v Speaker 1>each other to grow even larger. But one area where

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<v Speaker 1>they put down their swords is the topic of immigration.

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<v Speaker 1>Silicon Valley loves immigrants.

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<v Speaker 3>My view on DACA is the Congress needs to fix DACA,

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<v Speaker 3>and fix DACA to me means allow everyone to stay

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<v Speaker 3>in the country.

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<v Speaker 4>We benefit from integration. We benefit from diversity.

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<v Speaker 5>The Washington Post reports Amazon founder Jeff Bezos and his

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<v Speaker 5>wife are donating $ 33 million to fund scholarships for undocumented

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<v Speaker 5>immigrants called DREAMers.

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<v Speaker 6>I hear fearful voices calling for building walls and distancing

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<v Speaker 6>people they label as others.

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<v Speaker 1>But why? Why does Silicon Valley love immigrants? The truth.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Red Pilled America. You'd be hard-pressed to find

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<v Speaker 1>a Silicon Valley titan who doesn't want to open our

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<v Speaker 1>borders to immigration, both legal and illegal. When someone within

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<v Speaker 1>their ranks goes against that orthodoxy, even opposing illegal immigration,

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<v Speaker 1>they feel the wrath.

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<v Speaker 7>Protesters targeted the home of tech industry billionaire Peter Thiel.

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<v Speaker 7>They are speaking out against the work by one of

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<v Speaker 7>his companies that could track airline passengers and other immigrants.

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<v Speaker 1>Silicon Valley is unanimously for increasing immigration to the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>But as we know, any time a community is unanimously

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<v Speaker 1>agreed on a subject, something else is usually afloat. Why

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<v Speaker 1>does Silicon Valley want to increase immigration to the United States?

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<v Speaker 1>To find the answer, We're going to hear the story

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<v Speaker 1>of two tech industry insiders. One, a longtime computer programmer

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<v Speaker 1>that became a whistleblower, and another, an immigrant to the

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<v Speaker 1>United States who began his career in Silicon Valley. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>give a perspective that the masters of big tech don't

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<v Speaker 1>want you to hear.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm Adriana Cortez. Roger Ross came to the U.S. in

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<v Speaker 5>a kind of roundabout way. His parents were actually South

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<v Speaker 5>African diplomats.

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<v Speaker 8>We were in South Africa because they had migrated from Europe.

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<v Speaker 8>And my father was working for the World Bank organization there.

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<v Speaker 8>So I was born and raised in South Africa. And

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<v Speaker 8>it just became a really cozy place to grow up.

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<v Speaker 8>And my parents never wanted to move back.

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<v Speaker 5>As a young boy, Roger had aspired to come to America.

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<v Speaker 8>I had always set my sights on the American dream,

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<v Speaker 8>at least what was depicted about it in the sitcoms

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<v Speaker 8>and the Hollywood movies that I watched, that America is

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<v Speaker 8>this great land of opportunities and you can pursue all

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<v Speaker 8>your dreams. And I really wanted to focus on that

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<v Speaker 8>and become part of the American lifestyle. I really valued

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<v Speaker 8>that lifestyle to the point where I even adopted and

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<v Speaker 8>started to change my accent to to fit in. So

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<v Speaker 8>I did everything I could to assimilate into the culture.

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<v Speaker 5>He went to an international school in South Africa that

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<v Speaker 5>encouraged its students to study abroad. So before his senior

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<v Speaker 5>year of high school, he made the move to America,

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<v Speaker 5>to a small town of 10,000 people in Northern California.

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<v Speaker 8>I actually started my journey quite early. I moved to

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<v Speaker 8>the United States in 99 and I didn't graduate from

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<v Speaker 8>the international school. I graduated from a local public school

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<v Speaker 8>here in California. And I came here on like a

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<v Speaker 8>foreign exchange basis.

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<v Speaker 5>His high school was a predominantly white public school. And

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<v Speaker 5>his years of admiring America made him fit right in

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<v Speaker 5>on arrival.

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<v Speaker 8>A lot of the people were very friendly to me.

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<v Speaker 8>They were actually astonished by my level of English because

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<v Speaker 8>a lot of the foreign exchange students that they had

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<v Speaker 8>encountered spoke little English or with a heavy accent. And

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<v Speaker 8>they thought that I was just someone who had, you know,

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<v Speaker 8>migrated from San Diego and moved up north.

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<v Speaker 5>Roger wasn't feeling academically challenged at his new school, so

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<v Speaker 5>he enrolled at a nearby college to take collegiate-level classes

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<v Speaker 5>while simultaneously finishing high school. He would eventually attend UC Davis,

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<v Speaker 5>where he got his bachelor's in applied mathematics and a

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<v Speaker 5>master's in economics. By the time he graduated in 2010,

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<v Speaker 5>Silicon Valley was making a comeback.

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<v Speaker 8>This was after the recession of 2008, where things started

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<v Speaker 8>to be booming in Silicon Valley with Facebook going public

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<v Speaker 8>and various other tech companies coming into the limelight and

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<v Speaker 8>showing a lot of great success. So we started to

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<v Speaker 8>see a boom in the startup industry.

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<v Speaker 5>At the time, the message being pumped out by Silicon

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<v Speaker 5>Valley was that American employers needed the foreign students graduating

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<v Speaker 5>from our American universities.

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<v Speaker 8>There was a startup that was interested in a market

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<v Speaker 8>researcher or a market analyst.

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<v Speaker 5>So Roger applied for the job. And that's when the

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<v Speaker 5>startup exposed him to the foreign work visa.

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<v Speaker 8>And they were, you know, they were short on funding,

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<v Speaker 8>so they brought me on an H-1B visa.

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<v Speaker 5>An H-1B is a foreign worker visa that purports to

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<v Speaker 5>help American employers fill job openings for highly skilled workers.

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<v Speaker 5>They're only supposed to be used if the company cannot

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<v Speaker 5>find a qualified American worker to fill the job. The

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<v Speaker 5>origin of the H-1B visas goes back to the Immigration

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<v Speaker 5>Act of 1990.

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<v Speaker 9>This bill provides for vital increases for entry on the

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<v Speaker 9>basis of skills, infusing the ranks of our scientists and

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<v Speaker 9>engineers and educators with new blood and new ideas.

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<v Speaker 5>Washington, D.C. created a whole host of foreign worker visas

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<v Speaker 5>that were specifically not supposed to be used to displace

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<v Speaker 5>American workers or negatively affect their wages. The employer is

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<v Speaker 5>supposed to pay the foreign worker what is called the

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<v Speaker 5>prevailing wage. which are the published wage levels that are

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<v Speaker 5>usually paid to the majority of workers within a particular

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<v Speaker 5>work sector. It's kind of like the minimum wage for

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<v Speaker 5>a particular job. This way, the employer could not use

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<v Speaker 5>these visas to bring in cheap foreign labor. The problem is,

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<v Speaker 5>many big tech firms have been using these visas to

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<v Speaker 5>bypass and replace American workers. Many employers like using foreign

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<v Speaker 5>worker visas because of the many benefits they get from

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<v Speaker 5>using them. One is a cost savings.

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<v Speaker 10>If you're paying an American $ 100, 000 to do a job

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<v Speaker 10>and then you pay $ 60, 000 to a foreigner, multiply that

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<v Speaker 10>savings by $ 250, 000, that's a lot.

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<v Speaker 5>That's Sarah Blackwell, a Florida-based attorney specializing in employment law

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<v Speaker 5>and founder of Protect U.S.

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<v Speaker 4>Workers.

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<v Speaker 10>But the ultimate end goal and the end game for

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<v Speaker 10>this business model is.

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<v Speaker 7>That most of the work is offshore to India.

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<v Speaker 11>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 10>And the company pays about $ 9, 000 to $ 10, 000 to those workers.

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<v Speaker 10>So you take 250 American workers who are getting an

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<v Speaker 10>average of $ 100, 000 and now we're paying Indians in India

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<v Speaker 10>to do it.

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<v Speaker 4>For $ 10, 000.

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<v Speaker 10>That's some serious savings. And that's, you know, they say, oh,

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<v Speaker 10>we say, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>Labor cost savings.

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<v Speaker 10>That's where we're getting the $ 5 million bonuses for the CEOs.

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<v Speaker 10>And that's why the CEOs are making so much money

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<v Speaker 10>because they're using... the lie of lack of workers and

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<v Speaker 10>globalism and all of these other arguments for basically using

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<v Speaker 10>foreign slave labor, in my opinion.

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<v Speaker 5>For people working in the United States with a foreign

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<v Speaker 5>work visa, many refer to this labor arrangement as legal

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<v Speaker 5>indentured servitude because in order to keep their work visas

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<v Speaker 5>and remain in our country, they have to work in

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<v Speaker 5>conditions American citizens simply would not tolerate.

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<v Speaker 10>The Indian-based companies or even when the American companies hire

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<v Speaker 10>the H-1Bs, the H-1Bs have to have a sponsor to

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<v Speaker 10>keep their visa. And so they are in a position

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<v Speaker 10>to be exploited, to have to work a ton of

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<v Speaker 10>hours and to be paid a certain amount, but have

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<v Speaker 10>to give money back for certain things. And that happens

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<v Speaker 10>a lot. And then the Americans have to compete with that.

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<v Speaker 4>So the.

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<v Speaker 10>Having to compete with workers who are staying there 90

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<v Speaker 10>hours because if they don't, they could be sent back home.

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<v Speaker 5>Roger Ross experienced this exploitation firsthand when he became a

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<v Speaker 5>foreign visa worker.

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<v Speaker 8>When I was initially sponsored for it, my correct job

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<v Speaker 8>title should have been, you know, that of an economist

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<v Speaker 8>or a market researcher or a market analyst. And my

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<v Speaker 8>employer saw the prevailing wage in the job handbook and said, oh,

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<v Speaker 8>that's too high of a salary. We can't afford to

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<v Speaker 8>pay you that. So why don't we make your job,

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<v Speaker 8>you know, something that we can find a prevailing wage

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<v Speaker 8>that's much more lower. And at the same time, we

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<v Speaker 8>want to employ you on a part time basis, but

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<v Speaker 8>make you work full time. And you know, that that's

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<v Speaker 8>how they exploited me per se. And at that point,

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<v Speaker 8>I was just like, okay, I just need to get

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<v Speaker 8>the H-1B visa. You know, this is what they want

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<v Speaker 8>to do, then so be it. Because I'm just a

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<v Speaker 8>fresh college graduate. I'm dying for a job. We're coming

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<v Speaker 8>out of a recession. And any job will do because

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<v Speaker 8>I had loans to pay myself. So I gladly accepted,

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<v Speaker 8>you know, whatever they'd deemed necessary to get me on

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<v Speaker 8>the H-1B.

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<v Speaker 5>But what Roger learned was that he lost his ability

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<v Speaker 5>to speak up because he was beholden to his employer.

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<v Speaker 5>One false move and he could lose his job and

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<v Speaker 5>be sent back to his country.

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<v Speaker 8>But as I got my H-1B, I noticed that, you know,

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<v Speaker 8>there was no way I could retaliate or make my

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<v Speaker 8>voice heard if I felt like I was being dealt

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<v Speaker 8>inappropriately with the work or whether I was not being

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<v Speaker 8>paid fairly. I just felt like I didn't have a

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<v Speaker 8>voice in that. And, you know, that was really problematic.

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<v Speaker 5>It's a problem for the foreign worker as well as

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<v Speaker 5>for the American worker. Because the exploited foreigner not only

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<v Speaker 5>takes the job from an American, they also set the

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<v Speaker 5>standard for the Americans still working within the company. And

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<v Speaker 5>Americans don't just lose out on new job openings. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 5>they're even forced to train their foreign replacement under incredibly

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<v Speaker 5>stressful circumstances. That's what happened with Michael Emmons.

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<v Speaker 4>My daughter was born with spina bifida. She's had about

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<v Speaker 4>28 surgeries. And I'm training my foreign replacement workers. My insurance,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm self-employed, so my medical insurance premiums were $ 947 a month.

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<v Speaker 4>And to find out that my trainee's salary is $ 53

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<v Speaker 4>more than my medical premiums, I mean, how does an

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<v Speaker 4>American compete? And I don't know why, but I decided

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<v Speaker 4>to fight it.

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<v Speaker 5>And fight it, Michael did. More Red Pilled America after

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<v Speaker 5>the break.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Red Pilled America. Michael Emmons has seen

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of the United States.

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<v Speaker 4>I was born in Mississippi, lived in Tennessee till fourth grade.

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<v Speaker 4>Then we went to North Carolina. till seventh, and then

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<v Speaker 4>I've been here since eighth grade.

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<v Speaker 1>Here being Florida. That's where his father introduced him to programming.

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<v Speaker 4>My father said, why don't you try this? And I

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<v Speaker 4>took one class and I was hooked.

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<v Speaker 1>Michael did then what so many people are told to

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<v Speaker 1>do today. He learned to code.

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<v Speaker 4>It was a lot of concepts and learning how to code.

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<v Speaker 4>One of my first class, we used an IBM mainframe.

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<v Speaker 4>The PCs came in on my senior year. They started

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<v Speaker 4>having like a PC lab. We used cards for my

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<v Speaker 4>first two classes, you know, where you had like cards

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<v Speaker 4>and you programmed on the cards and you ran them

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<v Speaker 4>through a card reader.

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<v Speaker 1>He'd eventually graduate from the University of Florida in 1984

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<v Speaker 1>with a degree in computer science and began solving people's

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<v Speaker 1>problems through coding.

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<v Speaker 4>I worked for Florida Department of Revenue and I created

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<v Speaker 4>an application to accept revenue through checks out at the

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<v Speaker 4>remote locations. So I then left to go with a

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<v Speaker 4>small company that we created a crime laboratory tracking system.

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<v Speaker 4>I built a jail system to handle all the money

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<v Speaker 4>that inmates get. So when he was arrested, they took

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<v Speaker 4>everything from him and they put it into our system

0:14:05.550 --> 0:14:08.069
<v Speaker 4>and gave the inmate a receipt. I was working 80

0:14:08.070 --> 0:14:11.949
<v Speaker 4>hours a week and they were paying me about 40.

0:14:11.950 --> 0:14:15.020
<v Speaker 4>And I asked for a raise and they didn't want

0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.200
<v Speaker 4>to pay me. So that's when I decided, I'm just

0:14:18.220 --> 0:14:19.340
<v Speaker 4>going to go do this on my own.

0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.280
<v Speaker 1>He went coding in South Carolina, Texas, and Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

0:14:23.940 --> 0:14:26.540
<v Speaker 1>He ended up at the Church of Scientology in Los Angeles.

0:14:27.060 --> 0:14:31.880
<v Speaker 4>Writing their, I call it a book-selling application, because to

0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:33.380
<v Speaker 4>me it's not really a church.

0:14:33.990 --> 0:14:35.850
<v Speaker 1>Then a guy he worked with left the Church of

0:14:35.900 --> 0:14:39.290
<v Speaker 1>Scientology and got a job in Silicon Valley working with Siemens.

0:14:39.930 --> 0:14:43.030
<v Speaker 1>So Michael took a contracting gig at Siemens working on

0:14:43.090 --> 0:14:47.460
<v Speaker 1>voice-over IP phones. What was Silicon Valley like in the 90s?

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.560
<v Speaker 1>Did it have the same kind of lore that it

0:14:49.620 --> 0:14:50.100
<v Speaker 1>has now?

0:14:50.820 --> 0:14:54.540
<v Speaker 4>It was amazing. To go live in right smack in

0:14:54.580 --> 0:14:57.740
<v Speaker 4>the middle of all the stuff that I do and everything,

0:14:58.460 --> 0:15:02.610
<v Speaker 4>it was amazing. I really enjoyed it. But I believe

0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.290
<v Speaker 4>it's changed quite a bit now.

0:15:04.850 --> 0:15:05.310
<v Speaker 1>In what way?

0:15:06.050 --> 0:15:08.790
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's overrun with foreign workers.

0:15:21.490 --> 0:15:25.310
<v Speaker 1>Michael would soon be overrun himself. After the dot-com bubble

0:15:25.350 --> 0:15:29.350
<v Speaker 1>burst in 2001, Seaman merged two of their businesses into one.

0:15:29.910 --> 0:15:32.430
<v Speaker 1>They had an office in Florida and offered Michael a

0:15:32.500 --> 0:15:35.680
<v Speaker 1>contracting job at that office. He jumped at the chance

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:37.800
<v Speaker 1>because now he'd be able to actually live in his

0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.860
<v Speaker 1>house instead of being on the road. But it was short-lived.

0:15:41.980 --> 0:15:46.420
<v Speaker 12>In the middle of 2002, the employees in the IT

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.900
<v Speaker 12>department were brought into a room that And told them

0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.300
<v Speaker 12>that they were going to have to train their replacements.

0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.180
<v Speaker 4>They didn't know who it was. But they were told

0:15:56.220 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 4>that they were going to basically be let go. But

0:15:58.660 --> 0:16:01.970
<v Speaker 4>they want them to train their replacements. So I was

0:16:02.010 --> 0:16:04.770
<v Speaker 4>an employee. I was a contractor. So they didn't bring

0:16:04.810 --> 0:16:07.390
<v Speaker 4>me into the room. But some of the employees had

0:16:07.450 --> 0:16:08.730
<v Speaker 4>told me, this is.

0:16:08.670 --> 0:16:09.350
<v Speaker 8>What's going on.

0:16:10.410 --> 0:16:15.660
<v Speaker 4>About 30 days later, in comes about 30 or so people.

0:16:16.690 --> 0:16:22.370
<v Speaker 4>Mostly young male Tata India employees are trainees.

0:16:23.070 --> 0:16:25.930
<v Speaker 1>Tata is a huge Indian company that, among other things,

0:16:26.390 --> 0:16:30.340
<v Speaker 1>provides a foreign Indian workforce to corporations on American soil.

0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.180
<v Speaker 1>At the time, Michael can't recall any foreign visa workers

0:16:34.260 --> 0:16:37.040
<v Speaker 1>at Siemens and only remembered a few within the IT

0:16:37.100 --> 0:16:37.920
<v Speaker 1>industry at large.

0:16:37.940 --> 0:16:41.660
<v Speaker 4>I don't think they had any visa holders working here.

0:16:42.660 --> 0:16:46.760
<v Speaker 4>The group I worked for in Sunnyvale, they had about

0:16:46.860 --> 0:16:50.380
<v Speaker 4>two or three on H-1Bs. And I knew who they were,

0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.220
<v Speaker 4>and they were friends of mine, and there was no problem.

0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.900
<v Speaker 4>You know, we worked together. We taught each other. You know,

0:16:55.060 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 4>we learned from each other.

0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.400
<v Speaker 1>But now the entire IT department was being replaced by

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:00.230
<v Speaker 1>Indian workers.

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:05.550
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, they assigned us people to train, and they watched

0:17:05.670 --> 0:17:06.850
<v Speaker 4>over us as we did things.

0:17:07.250 --> 0:17:12.340
<v Speaker 1>Michael was floored. Here was an entire IT department. gainfully employed, many,

0:17:12.500 --> 0:17:16.460
<v Speaker 1>like Michael, dependent on their jobs, now all being replaced

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:20.140
<v Speaker 1>by foreign workers. There was no worker shortage. These foreign

0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.420
<v Speaker 1>workers didn't have high-skilled training that the IT staff didn't have.

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.459
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the workers were being trained by the American workers,

0:17:26.510 --> 0:17:29.710
<v Speaker 1>for God's sake. No, these American workers were being replaced

0:17:29.770 --> 0:17:33.630
<v Speaker 1>by foreign workers because they were simply cheaper. Michael learned

0:17:33.670 --> 0:17:34.430
<v Speaker 1>this the hard way.

0:17:34.910 --> 0:17:38.310
<v Speaker 4>It was extremely rough at the time. My daughter was

0:17:38.369 --> 0:17:43.310
<v Speaker 4>born with spina bifida. She's had about 28 surgeries. And

0:17:43.369 --> 0:17:48.250
<v Speaker 4>I'm training my foreign replacement workers. I'm self-employed, so my

0:17:48.290 --> 0:17:54.100
<v Speaker 4>medical insurance premiums were $ 947 a month. And to find

0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:59.100
<v Speaker 4>out that my trainee's salary is $ 53 more than my

0:17:59.140 --> 0:18:03.639
<v Speaker 4>medical premium? I mean, how does an American compete? And

0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:06.600
<v Speaker 4>I don't know why, but I decided.

0:18:06.260 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 1>To fight it. So Michael, a programming whiz... began digging

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.420
<v Speaker 1>around on the company's servers and he found some documents.

0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.200
<v Speaker 4>So I looked around on the server and I found

0:18:15.260 --> 0:18:20.100
<v Speaker 4>Tata's shared drive. And I found all their documents. And

0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.000
<v Speaker 4>that's where I found the knowledge transfer documents, which I

0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:27.700
<v Speaker 4>had given to my U.S. congressman. I found their staffing

0:18:27.740 --> 0:18:31.570
<v Speaker 4>document too. And what was interesting in the staffing document

0:18:31.650 --> 0:18:34.670
<v Speaker 4>is all but about one or two of the people

0:18:35.109 --> 0:18:42.990
<v Speaker 4>were on L-1B visas. Intra-company transfer visas. Tata India transfers

0:18:43.030 --> 0:18:48.810
<v Speaker 4>their employees from India to Tata America. Then they sell

0:18:48.850 --> 0:18:51.790
<v Speaker 4>them out to businesses in the U.S.

0:19:04.980 --> 0:19:08.870
<v Speaker 1>These L-1B visas are rarely discussed. but they are particularly

0:19:08.970 --> 0:19:12.800
<v Speaker 1>harmful to American workers. This visa was originally created to

0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:17.260
<v Speaker 1>allow foreign companies to bring their employees with, quote, special

0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.040
<v Speaker 1>knowledge to help set up a branch in the United States.

0:19:20.460 --> 0:19:23.790
<v Speaker 1>But in practice, L-1B visas are used in an entirely

0:19:23.830 --> 0:19:27.609
<v Speaker 1>different way. They are predominantly used to replace American workers

0:19:27.930 --> 0:19:32.230
<v Speaker 1>with cheap foreign labor. Foreign companies, primarily from India, set

0:19:32.270 --> 0:19:34.920
<v Speaker 1>up shop in the United States. then bring their countrymen

0:19:34.980 --> 0:19:37.820
<v Speaker 1>into the states and shop them out to American corporations.

0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.890
<v Speaker 1>Unlike H-1B visas, there are no numerical limits on how

0:19:41.930 --> 0:19:45.369
<v Speaker 1>many L-1B visas are issued, and there is no restrictions

0:19:45.430 --> 0:19:49.160
<v Speaker 1>on paying the foreign worker a prevailing wage. In other words,

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.440
<v Speaker 1>the American corporation can pay them as little as possible.

0:19:53.060 --> 0:19:56.359
<v Speaker 1>So these foreign workers become very attractive. When the corporations

0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.740
<v Speaker 1>hire them, they make their American employees train their replacements.

0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.540
<v Speaker 1>This process is known as knowledge transfer, and if an

0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:08.169
<v Speaker 1>American worker refuses, they receive no severance package. Also, as

0:20:08.190 --> 0:20:11.629
<v Speaker 1>a condition of receiving the severance package, the corporation shuts

0:20:11.690 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 1>them up. by making them sign away their right to

0:20:14.100 --> 0:20:17.160
<v Speaker 1>speak to the press. These foreign visas are so often

0:20:17.340 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 1>used in the IT business that insiders won't speak out

0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.800
<v Speaker 1>about them for fear of being blacklisted from the industry.

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.370
<v Speaker 1>That's why we seldom hear about this morally reprehensible practice.

0:20:30.890 --> 0:20:33.690
<v Speaker 1>We're constantly sold by the big tech industry that foreign

0:20:33.710 --> 0:20:38.270
<v Speaker 1>workers are needed because of American worker shortages. But they're lying. Again,

0:20:38.350 --> 0:20:38.949
<v Speaker 1>Sarah Blackwell.

0:20:39.300 --> 0:20:42.260
<v Speaker 10>The argument is they're high skilled and that's why we

0:20:42.300 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 10>need them. And we don't have enough American workers to

0:20:45.100 --> 0:20:47.960
<v Speaker 10>do the job. That's the argument. But obviously we have

0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.780
<v Speaker 10>high skilled American workers if the American high skilled workers

0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.260
<v Speaker 10>are teaching the foreigners how to do their job.

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Sarah represented former Disney employees in a high profile case.

0:21:00.300 --> 0:21:03.290
<v Speaker 1>In 2014, 250 of the company's IT employees were forced

0:21:03.310 --> 0:21:05.869
<v Speaker 1>to train their replacements, which was a large group of

0:21:05.910 --> 0:21:07.850
<v Speaker 1>Indian nationals with foreign work visas.

0:21:08.510 --> 0:21:13.070
<v Speaker 10>Well, I filed a RICO lawsuit because these corporations have

0:21:13.090 --> 0:21:15.070
<v Speaker 10>a lot of money and they paid some really smart

0:21:15.109 --> 0:21:19.450
<v Speaker 10>attorneys to figure out how to break immigration and employment

0:21:19.470 --> 0:21:24.970
<v Speaker 10>laws without breaking employment or immigration laws. So basically what

0:21:26.170 --> 0:21:28.590
<v Speaker 10>Disney did, if they would have just done on their own,

0:21:28.630 --> 0:21:31.730
<v Speaker 10>they would be violating employment law because you can't take

0:21:31.730 --> 0:21:36.170
<v Speaker 10>250 people and then replace them all with one race

0:21:36.270 --> 0:21:39.359
<v Speaker 10>and one national origin. I mean, that's So these corporations

0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:44.840
<v Speaker 10>find loopholes to legally replace American workers with cheap foreign labor,

0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:46.100
<v Speaker 10>take advantage of the desperate.

0:21:45.980 --> 0:22:10.490
<v Speaker 1>Foreign workers, and gag their former employees so no one

0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:12.840
<v Speaker 1>knows what's going on. And they do it all with

0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.139
<v Speaker 1>the help of our politicians in Washington, D.C. That's why

0:22:16.180 --> 0:22:19.640
<v Speaker 1>what Michael Emmons did in 2003 was so important. He

0:22:19.700 --> 0:22:22.560
<v Speaker 1>was a pioneer in blowing the whistle on this despicable

0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.960
<v Speaker 1>corporate scam. When Michael was forced to train his replacements,

0:22:26.340 --> 0:22:29.649
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't an employee. He was a contractor. And corporations

0:22:29.670 --> 0:22:31.890
<v Speaker 1>at the time were not hip to shutting people up yet.

0:22:32.430 --> 0:22:34.810
<v Speaker 1>Michael wasn't going to take this abuse sitting down. He

0:22:34.830 --> 0:22:37.450
<v Speaker 1>was a highly skilled programmer, that kept up to date

0:22:37.490 --> 0:22:38.909
<v Speaker 1>with the industry's new technology.

0:22:45.380 --> 0:22:49.540
<v Speaker 4>But I've spent my whole career relearning and relearning to

0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:51.700
<v Speaker 4>stay proficient in the industry.

0:22:53.420 --> 0:22:55.189
<v Speaker 1>So he approached a former customer and said he was

0:22:55.210 --> 0:22:57.670
<v Speaker 1>looking for work. They scooped him up, but at a

0:22:57.730 --> 0:23:01.750
<v Speaker 1>sizable salary decrease. Nonetheless, that freed him up to blow

0:23:01.790 --> 0:23:05.179
<v Speaker 1>the whistle on the entire foreign worker visa scam. The

0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.119
<v Speaker 1>country was about to learn how corporations were selling out

0:23:08.180 --> 0:23:13.680
<v Speaker 1>the American worker. More of Red Pilled America after the break.

0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:28.330
<v Speaker 5>Netflix, Hulu, HBO Max, Disney +, Apple TV, Amazon Prime, Showtime, Paramount,

0:23:28.630 --> 0:23:31.609
<v Speaker 5>Paramount +, and on and on. What do these streaming

0:23:31.650 --> 0:23:35.320
<v Speaker 5>services have in common? They are all storytelling platforms.

0:23:35.619 --> 0:23:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Which of these.

0:23:36.300 --> 0:23:39.780
<v Speaker 5>Platforms are you supporting with your hard-earned money? Now ask

0:23:39.820 --> 0:23:42.780
<v Speaker 5>yourself if the stories being told on those platforms truly

0:23:42.820 --> 0:23:46.119
<v Speaker 5>align with your worldview. And if they don't, ask yourself

0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:48.720
<v Speaker 5>where you go to get entertainment in the form of

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:52.740
<v Speaker 5>storytelling that does align with your worldview. Red Pilled America

0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:56.419
<v Speaker 5>is that show. We are not another talk show covering

0:23:56.460 --> 0:24:00.330
<v Speaker 5>today's news. We are all about telling stories. We remain

0:24:00.430 --> 0:24:02.780
<v Speaker 5>the only show of our kind. And why aren't there

0:24:02.820 --> 0:24:05.879
<v Speaker 5>more shows like ours? Because it's expensive to create this

0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:09.919
<v Speaker 5>kind of content. That's why we need your support. Without

0:24:09.940 --> 0:24:13.360
<v Speaker 5>your support, this show doesn't survive. And more importantly, there'll

0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:17.040
<v Speaker 5>be zero change to the monopolistic environment of storytelling. Please

0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:22.220
<v Speaker 5>visit redpilledamerica.com and click support in the top menu. Support

0:24:22.260 --> 0:24:25.310
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0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:37.080
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to red-pilled America. So Michael Emmons learned that

0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:40.220
<v Speaker 1>the company he was working for was replacing their American

0:24:40.260 --> 0:24:43.960
<v Speaker 1>tech workers with cheap foreign labor. To add insult to injury,

0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:47.270
<v Speaker 1>they were forcing them to train their replacements. Michael wasn't

0:24:47.310 --> 0:24:49.880
<v Speaker 1>going to take this sitting down. He secured another job

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:52.550
<v Speaker 1>at a sizable pay decrease, but that freed him up

0:24:52.590 --> 0:24:55.590
<v Speaker 1>to blow the whistle on the entire foreign visa scam.

0:25:00.150 --> 0:25:03.170
<v Speaker 1>He contacted a local reporter at WKMG Orlando.

0:25:03.770 --> 0:25:10.610
<v Speaker 4>He did stories about maybe some roofer cheating out some lady,

0:25:10.710 --> 0:25:12.889
<v Speaker 4>you know, didn't do his roof right. And those were

0:25:12.910 --> 0:25:15.250
<v Speaker 4>the kind of stories he had done. So when he

0:25:15.290 --> 0:25:19.750
<v Speaker 4>got this international story, he was really excited to do it.

0:25:20.190 --> 0:25:22.170
<v Speaker 4>And it took a couple months for them to get

0:25:22.210 --> 0:25:22.590
<v Speaker 4>it out.

0:25:23.190 --> 0:25:25.330
<v Speaker 11>What if I told you when you go to work tomorrow,

0:25:25.369 --> 0:25:28.230
<v Speaker 11>there'll be someone there to take your job? What if

0:25:28.290 --> 0:25:30.600
<v Speaker 11>I told you that you'll have to train that person

0:25:30.930 --> 0:25:34.440
<v Speaker 11>to do your job? Sounds rather far-fetched, don't you think?

0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:35.800
<v Speaker 13>Well, it isn't.

0:25:36.300 --> 0:25:38.879
<v Speaker 4>Americans across the country, hundreds of thousands of Americans have

0:25:38.900 --> 0:25:42.020
<v Speaker 4>lost their jobs and can't get work.

0:25:42.460 --> 0:25:45.379
<v Speaker 11>Mike Emmons and James Granberry were working at Siemens in

0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:48.160
<v Speaker 11>Lake Mary, and they both claim the company has replaced

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:50.050
<v Speaker 11>them with cheaper foreign labor.

0:25:51.590 --> 0:25:53.909
<v Speaker 1>At the time, there was no Facebook, there was no Twitter,

0:25:54.050 --> 0:25:57.010
<v Speaker 1>there was no YouTube, but Michael was a programmer, and

0:25:57.050 --> 0:25:59.950
<v Speaker 1>he used that skill to distribute the story over the web.

0:26:01.030 --> 0:26:05.090
<v Speaker 4>So what I did To bring awareness, I would capture

0:26:05.650 --> 0:26:08.820
<v Speaker 4>the news on WKMG. I would capture it on my

0:26:08.859 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 4>video camera and then switch it over to my computer,

0:26:12.140 --> 0:26:14.939
<v Speaker 4>digitize it, and then serve it up on the Internet.

0:26:15.820 --> 0:26:19.240
<v Speaker 4>And I had a little Linux box in my office

0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:23.980
<v Speaker 4>here that was my server, and I had 30,000 hits

0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:24.800
<v Speaker 4>a week at times.

0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Eventually, the national news caught wind, with immigration legend Lou

0:26:28.820 --> 0:26:29.960
<v Speaker 1>Dobbs covering the story.

0:26:30.260 --> 0:26:32.480
<v Speaker 3>We've been reporting for weeks on this show about the

0:26:32.540 --> 0:26:35.450
<v Speaker 3>massive loss of American jobs to foreign countries in our

0:26:35.510 --> 0:26:39.410
<v Speaker 3>series of special reports exporting America. What is less well

0:26:39.450 --> 0:26:42.310
<v Speaker 3>known is how tens of thousands of foreigners take jobs

0:26:42.350 --> 0:26:46.679
<v Speaker 3>in this country every year under special visa programs. Incredibly,

0:26:47.060 --> 0:26:50.520
<v Speaker 3>some American workers are training those foreigners to take their

0:26:50.580 --> 0:26:51.160
<v Speaker 3>own jobs.

0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:54.060
<v Speaker 14>They held out a carrot for the Americans, a severance.

0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:56.949
<v Speaker 14>Stay on and train your replacement workers, then you'll get

0:26:56.990 --> 0:26:59.710
<v Speaker 14>the severance when you leave. I stayed on until November

0:26:59.770 --> 0:27:02.890
<v Speaker 14>until I landed another job. But what I learned about

0:27:02.930 --> 0:27:06.919
<v Speaker 14>these H-1B and L-1 visas is very discouraging for American workers.

0:27:07.540 --> 0:27:08.840
<v Speaker 12>Mike's wife went to work.

0:27:09.140 --> 0:27:12.419
<v Speaker 9>One of their big concerns, uninterrupted health care coverage for

0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:15.740
<v Speaker 9>their daughter, born with spinal bifida. Mike found another job

0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:17.090
<v Speaker 9>at considerably less pay.

0:27:17.410 --> 0:27:20.250
<v Speaker 1>The story even reached the national news desk of Peter Jennings.

0:27:20.590 --> 0:27:23.270
<v Speaker 13>The economy has been struggling to hold on to the

0:27:23.310 --> 0:27:26.590
<v Speaker 13>jobs in the face of overseas competition. And ABC's Betsy

0:27:26.609 --> 0:27:30.429
<v Speaker 13>Stark tonight has the latest installment in our series, our

0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:32.910
<v Speaker 13>ongoing series, Jobless in America.

0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:36.879
<v Speaker 2>Not long after Michael Emmons moved his family cross-country to

0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:39.920
<v Speaker 2>take a new job as a software programmer, he lost

0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.609
<v Speaker 2>the job and his employer was Candid Y.

0:27:43.060 --> 0:27:45.220
<v Speaker 14>They called the Americans into a room and they told

0:27:45.240 --> 0:27:47.570
<v Speaker 14>them that they were going to be outsourced and they

0:27:47.590 --> 0:27:48.550
<v Speaker 14>were going to be replaced.

0:27:49.230 --> 0:27:53.390
<v Speaker 2>Replaced by workers from India, Emmons and his colleagues were

0:27:53.450 --> 0:27:54.490
<v Speaker 2>expected to train.

0:27:54.930 --> 0:27:57.550
<v Speaker 14>It was the most demoralizing thing I've ever been through.

0:27:58.230 --> 0:28:01.270
<v Speaker 14>I had to now teach foreign workers how to do

0:28:01.310 --> 0:28:02.810
<v Speaker 14>my job so they can lay me off.

0:28:03.210 --> 0:28:05.909
<v Speaker 1>What drove Michael was the simple injustice of it all.

0:28:06.530 --> 0:28:11.020
<v Speaker 1>the American government was actually allowing and helping corporations replace

0:28:11.040 --> 0:28:14.520
<v Speaker 1>American workers, its citizens, with cheap foreign workers.

0:28:17.140 --> 0:28:20.469
<v Speaker 4>But to use visas and say there's not enough Americans

0:28:20.890 --> 0:28:24.750
<v Speaker 4>to accomplish their goal to get cheap labor, it's just wrong.

0:28:25.510 --> 0:28:30.379
<v Speaker 4>The U.S. Congress created visas that allow corporations that line

0:28:30.410 --> 0:28:32.740
<v Speaker 4>their pockets to get rid of their employees.

0:28:33.300 --> 0:28:36.760
<v Speaker 1>We often hear about illegal immigration devastating the American worker,

0:28:37.160 --> 0:28:40.180
<v Speaker 1>flooding the labor force with cheap labor, driving down wages,

0:28:40.530 --> 0:28:43.730
<v Speaker 1>and taking our working class jobs. We've told those stories

0:28:43.790 --> 0:28:46.210
<v Speaker 1>here on Red Pilled America. But it is not just

0:28:46.350 --> 0:28:49.830
<v Speaker 1>illegal immigration hurting the American worker. It is legal immigration

0:28:49.870 --> 0:28:53.270
<v Speaker 1>as well. That's the position of Roger Ross, an economic

0:28:53.410 --> 0:28:55.910
<v Speaker 1>expert who once benefited from a foreign visa.

0:28:56.510 --> 0:29:00.640
<v Speaker 8>I truly think that there's no difference between illegal and

0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:05.490
<v Speaker 8>legal immigration when it comes to labor supply economics. It's

0:29:05.530 --> 0:29:08.250
<v Speaker 8>all about getting the cheap labor. And as long as

0:29:08.370 --> 0:29:12.970
<v Speaker 8>that mantra is propelled on, we're going to see more

0:29:13.070 --> 0:29:15.790
<v Speaker 8>devastation of our economic conditions.

0:29:15.350 --> 0:29:15.970
<v Speaker 7>In this country.

0:29:17.610 --> 0:29:20.210
<v Speaker 1>Which leads us back to the question, why does Silicon

0:29:20.230 --> 0:29:24.710
<v Speaker 1>Valley love immigrants so much? It's simple. Immigrants are cheap

0:29:24.750 --> 0:29:28.230
<v Speaker 1>labor that they can exploit. Silicon Valley pushes both legal

0:29:28.490 --> 0:29:31.430
<v Speaker 1>and illegal immigration because it helps their bottom line.

0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:34.020
<v Speaker 6>You know, people often talk about two parts of the issue.

0:29:35.020 --> 0:29:38.850
<v Speaker 6>High-skill H-1Bs, the issues that tech companies have, and full

0:29:38.910 --> 0:29:42.770
<v Speaker 6>comprehensive immigration reform as if they're two completely separate issues.

0:29:33.030 --> 0:29:36.210
<v Speaker 6>Silicon Valley is only worried about continued growth, and they're

0:29:36.230 --> 0:29:39.670
<v Speaker 6>willing to find that growth at any cost, including replacing

0:29:39.690 --> 0:29:42.260
<v Speaker 6>the American workforce. We are living in unprecedented times. Americans

0:29:42.300 --> 0:29:44.700
<v Speaker 6>are losing jobs to automation, new technologies, and offshoring.

0:30:03.510 --> 0:30:07.350
<v Speaker 1>Some are predicting driverless cars will eliminate over 4 million jobs.

0:30:08.210 --> 0:30:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Illegal immigrants have flooded construction, landscaping, farming, house cleaning, factory, janitorial,

0:30:14.340 --> 0:30:18.600
<v Speaker 1>and the childcare industries, lowering wages and replacing American workers.

0:30:19.180 --> 0:30:22.340
<v Speaker 1>And throughout all of this, Silicon Valley is constantly making

0:30:22.380 --> 0:30:26.620
<v Speaker 1>a push to increase foreign work visas. A 2016 report

0:30:26.680 --> 0:30:32.810
<v Speaker 1>showed that nearly three-quarters of Silicon Valley techies are foreign-born. Three-quarters.

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:36.180
<v Speaker 1>How many more do they need? The big tech billionaires

0:30:36.300 --> 0:30:40.160
<v Speaker 1>are not being altruistic. They're being greedy. They love the

0:30:40.220 --> 0:30:43.480
<v Speaker 1>cheap labor. It's just that simple. The situation has become

0:30:43.500 --> 0:30:46.730
<v Speaker 1>so dire that it's even triggered Roger Ross, a man

0:30:46.790 --> 0:30:49.890
<v Speaker 1>who once benefited from a foreign worker visa, to speak out.

0:30:50.770 --> 0:30:53.630
<v Speaker 1>Roger married an American. He is now a permanent resident

0:30:53.650 --> 0:30:56.510
<v Speaker 1>with a green card. And he's using his insider knowledge

0:30:56.530 --> 0:30:59.310
<v Speaker 1>to the abuse of foreign work visas to inform the

0:30:59.350 --> 0:31:00.380
<v Speaker 1>public on this issue.

0:31:00.890 --> 0:31:05.030
<v Speaker 8>I'm just seeing a total change. destruction of our economic conditions.

0:31:05.070 --> 0:31:08.710
<v Speaker 8>And that's why I'm beginning to panic. I noticed that

0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:13.260
<v Speaker 8>our Congress, as well as future leaders, are still going

0:31:13.320 --> 0:31:18.920
<v Speaker 8>about the whole immigration reform concept in the wrong direction.

0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:22.680
<v Speaker 8>And that's why we're not seeing any meaningful progress. You're

0:31:22.790 --> 0:31:27.030
<v Speaker 8>seeing a total stagnation of our wages. You are also

0:31:27.130 --> 0:31:31.320
<v Speaker 8>seeing the labor participation rate which is the true measure

0:31:31.670 --> 0:31:36.820
<v Speaker 8>of people employed in the labor force, is declining. And

0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:44.020
<v Speaker 8>we're pretty much headed to a cataclysmic condition of our

0:31:44.120 --> 0:31:48.640
<v Speaker 8>economic situation, exacerbating to where you're going to have a

0:31:48.700 --> 0:31:52.240
<v Speaker 8>lot of our college graduates not being able to find jobs.

0:31:52.740 --> 0:31:56.810
<v Speaker 8>They're inundated with student loan debt, and it's piling up

0:31:57.130 --> 0:32:00.770
<v Speaker 8>each day. And a lot of our American workers are

0:32:00.830 --> 0:32:03.410
<v Speaker 8>not finding the jobs that they want, even though they're

0:32:03.450 --> 0:32:07.470
<v Speaker 8>really highly skilled and deserving of the jobs, which, you know,

0:32:08.050 --> 0:32:12.110
<v Speaker 8>a lot of the Silicon Valley and the corporatist types

0:32:12.150 --> 0:32:15.210
<v Speaker 8>are saying that there's a shortage of. Well, what we're

0:32:15.260 --> 0:32:19.080
<v Speaker 8>seeing is that there's a standard discrimination of workers who

0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:23.180
<v Speaker 8>are either American or are at a higher age. There's

0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:27.630
<v Speaker 8>this whole ageism discrimination that's going on. where if you're

0:32:27.870 --> 0:32:31.170
<v Speaker 8>past the age of 30 years old, you're not as

0:32:31.310 --> 0:32:35.130
<v Speaker 8>valuable to the company because they know you would warrant

0:32:35.210 --> 0:32:39.080
<v Speaker 8>a higher pay based on the experience that you have.

0:32:39.580 --> 0:32:41.920
<v Speaker 8>And they don't want to pay those salaries. So that's

0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:46.240
<v Speaker 8>why they would rather hire someone who's a younger OPT

0:32:46.700 --> 0:32:51.230
<v Speaker 8>international student or a younger H-1B who will happily accept

0:32:51.810 --> 0:32:54.850
<v Speaker 8>the wages in exchange for immigration benefits.

0:33:05.050 --> 0:33:08.130
<v Speaker 1>When coal workers were losing their jobs during the Obama administration,

0:33:08.650 --> 0:33:12.770
<v Speaker 1>journalists suggested that they should learn to code to find employment. Well,

0:33:12.810 --> 0:33:16.260
<v Speaker 1>Michael Emmons actually learned to code, long before the advice

0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:19.120
<v Speaker 1>came from our thoughtful media. But in the age of

0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:22.340
<v Speaker 1>big tech, learning to code is hardly a failsafe when

0:33:22.420 --> 0:33:26.330
<v Speaker 1>Silicon Valley continues to push for more and more foreign workers.

0:33:27.010 --> 0:33:29.270
<v Speaker 1>Silicon Valley is pulling a con job on the American

0:33:29.310 --> 0:33:32.630
<v Speaker 1>people by claiming we need more foreign workers. We don't.

0:33:33.180 --> 0:33:35.219
<v Speaker 1>And if we continue to let big tech dictate our

0:33:35.260 --> 0:33:38.480
<v Speaker 1>immigration policy, we can kiss the American dream goodbye.

0:33:40.320 --> 0:33:43.700
<v Speaker 8>If you think your living space is cramped, take a

0:33:43.700 --> 0:33:44.360
<v Speaker 8>look at this truck.

0:33:44.400 --> 0:33:45.780
<v Speaker 13>It looks like any other, right?

0:33:45.940 --> 0:33:46.240
<v Speaker 8>Sure.

0:33:46.420 --> 0:33:46.940
<v Speaker 3>No, it's not.

0:33:47.010 --> 0:33:49.410
<v Speaker 8>This truck is actually home for a.

0:33:49.370 --> 0:33:52.010
<v Speaker 13>23-year-old man who works for Google.

0:33:52.250 --> 0:33:54.910
<v Speaker 1>It's actually parked right outside the headquarters of Google.

0:33:56.350 --> 0:33:59.670
<v Speaker 5>Red Pilled America is an iHeartRadio original podcast. It's produced

0:33:59.710 --> 0:34:03.030
<v Speaker 5>by me, Adriana Cortez, and Patrick Karelchi for Informed Ventures.

0:34:03.540 --> 0:34:06.360
<v Speaker 5>Now our entire archive of episodes is only available to

0:34:06.420 --> 0:34:11.700
<v Speaker 5>our backstage subscribers. To subscribe, visit redfieldamerica.com and click support

0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:13.630
<v Speaker 5>in the top menu. Thanks for listening.