WEBVTT - The UC Student Workers Facing Assault Charges for a Labour Protest 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.559 Hello, Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast which 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.440 only has one button and is edited by Danil using 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:16.040 a ten year old Logitech Expots controller. That's a submarine 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.520 joke for those of you who who have not been 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:23.520 following today, I'm joined by Alex and Tom, both of 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.400 them graduate students in the UC system, and we're talking 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:31.840 about this really obscene charge of assault that some graduate 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.920 students are facing after they disrupted. 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:37.360 An alumni event in San Diego. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.440 Hi, Alex and Tom, if you had to introduce yourselves 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.680 a little bit, as far as you feel comfortable. 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.479 Hi, Jens, sure, thanks for having us back. My name 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.599 is Alex. I'm a graduate student at University of California, 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.720 San Diego. Some of you have been listening since November. 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:56.080 My remember when I first came on the show to 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.680 tell you about our strike. And I guess we're going 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:02.280 to give some some interesting updates since then. 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:08.080 And I'm also graduate student at UC San Diego, and 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:11.680 I'm pretty managed in my program. I've been here for 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:16.000 a while and I can manage, which very cool. 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.280 Yeah, and so I think to start out with we 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.680 should just explain, Well, we'll explain what happened in detail, 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:24.640 at the event in a bit, But can you just 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.520 explain what these charges that people are facing are and 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.679 how they found out that they have been charged with 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:35.120 assault after doing something which was not violent in the 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:35.640 first place. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.360 Yeah. Absolutely, So the most sort of recent thing that's 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.120 happened is is and we'll talk about the details in 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.640 a moment, But as James alluded to, we held a 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.640 peaceful protest back in May related to a number of 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.560 violations of our most recent collective bargaining agreement, which I'll 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:59.200 also be happy to go into detail on. And in 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:03.920 response to what was, by all accounts, by what I 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:06.560 witnessed by everyone else that I've talked to, was a 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:12.160 completely peaceful protest, the university has decided to allege that 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.520 sixty seven graduate students, including by our account eighteen who 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.360 were either not present or not involved, are going to 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:23.000 be charged under the student conduct process with committing a 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:28.240 physical assault, as well as charges for disruption and a 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.959 vague assertion that we were threatening the health and safety 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:38.640 of others. These are quite serious allegations. They do carry 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.960 potential sanctions up to long term suspension and expulsion from 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.360 the university, right. 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:50.200 Yeah, and that's I think people like the exposure for 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:54.560 graduate students is so high, right, Like, if you are 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.320 on the job market, you know that this could set 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:58.040 back your progress. 0:02:58.480 --> 0:02:59.920 Already very challenging job market. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.880 It's suspension or expulsion presumably could have long term consequences 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.840 for employability and something that like I think I spent 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.320 the better part of eight years at u c SDN. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:13.160 Say you've invested a lot of time, you get paid 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.840 like shit, and if you then get nothing out of it, 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.640 that is potentially devastating for. 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.360 Each individual illness. This is absolutely never staying. These are 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:28.120 careers and invested, you know, a minimum of seven years 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.000 at least, humanities find there's so many of us more. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.160 But it's also never sailing for the university itself because 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:39.119 these students that are being charged by from virtually having program, 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.120 so many of them are working in very prestigious, high 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:50.160 powered laboratories, have you know, fellowships and scholarships. So this 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.520 is really a bad look for the university as well 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:58.520 to you know, potentially have sixty seven graduate students under 0:03:58.520 --> 0:03:59.200 these charges. 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.960 Yeah, totally sixty seven. It's funny, I've been sixty eight. 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.680 We could have It's when I like, I don't know 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:08.480 when I hear sixty obviously, I think of like nineteen 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.680 sixty eight, and it's remarkable. This is a university at 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:16.200 one point somewhat self immolated at UCSD in protest Vietnam War, 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:20.280 and now we are like I had a reputation for radicalism, 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.240 and now who we are charging people for walking onto 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:27.200 a stage and shouting. Do you want to talk about 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.280 that they're walking onto a stage and shouting? Can you 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:34.200 maybe give us an account of the events and then 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.279 we'll talk about maybe how those have been represented in 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:39.160 the process. 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.599 That makes sense, Yeah, sure. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:48.880 So this particular protest took place at an awards ceremony, 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:54.560 very sort of fancy sort of annual events that the 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:59.560 university hosts where they give awards to various alumni and 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.160 kind of as a sort of fundraising opportunity as well. 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:09.760 And what the protest took the form of was that 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:15.960 a number of graduate student workers walked on stage uninvited 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:22.120 and began giving speeches and holding signs demonstrating the ways 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.599 in which and informing the audience of the ways in 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:28.400 which that our contracts have not been upheld since we 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.640 signed them in December, the ways in which the university 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.160 is circumventing some of the raises that we were promised 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.320 for our research and teaching, and the ways it is 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:43.760 trying to sort of prevent those things from being resolved 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.479 in the sort of normal channels that you go through 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.719 with these sort of these sort of union and contract 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.360 administration things. And that's been I'm gooing for I suppose 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:58.760 six months now with relatively little process. So that demonstration 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:03.479 took place about up until the time that some local 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:08.440 police officers arrived, and at that time the demonstration was 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:13.320 fully compliant with those orders, and the police officers noted 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.160 such in their dispatch logs, which I was able to 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.840 retrieve from the city. And then after that the demonstration 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.839 continued outside of the venue of the event, where people 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.880 were still able to you know, make a decent amount 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:30.920 of noise and raise their grievances despite the walls separating 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.440 the group from the alumni inside. And it certainly did 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.920 get some attention, since we were in touch after that 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.479 with people who were sort of relatively high up in 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:47.120 a number of university and alumni centric offices and who 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.520 were surprised to hear of the things that we were 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.120 alleging and wanted to hear more and be able to 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.240 raise those issues further uper of the university. So these 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.559 charges certainly did sort of come as a shock, given 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.039 that at first a lot of people at the event 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:06.800 seemed receptive in a way, though certainly not all, but 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:11.760 some were certainly receptive to our concerns and what we 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:12.520 had to say. 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.480 A lot a couple of interesting details. And the first 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:22.800 one that the immediate in participate in this event was 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:27.680 actually the news that Chancellor Britty Coles Law was in attendance, 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.040 and this was only a week or two after they 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.680 become public knowledge that he had received a five hundred 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:40.160 thousand dollars arrays as an effort to keep him in 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.240 the university, which raises his salary to more than a 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.560 million dollars and I think makes him the fourth highest 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:53.480 paid university chancellor or president in the United States. So 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:58.720 we presented him within award for UCSD's most overpaid works, 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:05.360 and that was sort of our rationale before doing this 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.200 specific event. And the other thing is is that when 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.040 the police arrived, they actually did no verbal orders for 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.040 us to clear out. We as soon as we saw them, 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.840 we peacefully started to leave the stage and they stood 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.840 there as well. Their arrests were made, now interviews, no 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:27.560 orders were shouted. They remained on site for the duration 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.520 as we stood outside picking. There were no reinforcements, there 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.000 were no swat teams, and we've just one or two 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:38.400 squad cars. The police typically are known for having outsized 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.640 responses to minor problems, but the fact that they did 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:47.040 not have any kind of aggressive response to this indicate 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:51.360 to us that they were where it was entirely peaceful events. 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.960 Yeah, and the dispatch logs don't show them having any 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:59.840 concerns about violence or responding to to any like real violence, 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.360 them seeing any violence responding to it, right. 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:05.560 Yeah, so I was able to grab those and the Yeah, 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.439 it's difficult to say because it looks like maybe two 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.400 people called nine on one even though. 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:12.480 It was three. 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:14.000 Yeah. 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.920 Violence, Yeah, two said there was no violence. That third 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.720 person said they had secondhand reports that we had pushed 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.480 the chancellor off the stage, which we have video of 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.160 that very definitely not happening. He stood next to the 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.880 graduate students and then of his own initiative, turned and 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:33.520 walked off the stage. So the only allegation that's documented 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:38.079 in real time of any violence occurring was one admittedly secondhand, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.239 and two is disproven conclusively by the available video. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.520 Right, and that video is online right, like it's been posted. Yeah, 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:47.240 it's easy to find. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.280 There's that particular one that really easily disproves it. There's 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.800 a video link for the union uploaded it, so I 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:54.199 can we can drop that in the show notes. I 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:54.880 can send that too. 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:56.679 Yeah, excellent, We'll make sure we do that. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:01.280 And likewise, the p R that this publicly available, folks 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:15.760 could go see it as pras are publicly available. We 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.360 have like a lot of evidence that no one was 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.800 find that the assaulted. What is the university alleging that 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.560 was done? I guess that they claiming what do they 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:26.640 claim the student workers did? 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.160 Well? The closest thing that we can find, so in 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.080 a you know, in the documentation that each person was 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.280 given about the charges that they face, the closest thing 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.400 we can find to a description that seems to imply 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:47.160 assault was that someone claimed to have seen the chancellor. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.760 The word they use was bumped, which doesn't even necessarily 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:57.760 imply intentionality in my mind. And really the way that 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.120 I read that sentence is that you know, possibly the 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.040 stage was a little crowded and someone might have bumped 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:09.000 into him. But I don't even recall ever seeing that happen. 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:11.160 I haven't talked to anyone who recalls seeing that happen, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.560 anyone who was in our group or not. But other 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.160 than that, the rest of the report is really just 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:24.520 full of descriptions of how they they have I don't 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.720 even think they talked to anyone who said they were 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:28.800 scared of us. They just said people might have been 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.320 scared of us. It's very strange. 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:35.800 The report reads like propaganda from the class, or it's 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:40.240 cuestioning of the highest order. If some Champagne glasses were 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:45.240 builken the events of South Class one hundred thousand dollars 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:50.120 to set up with many different caterers and vendors. Somebody 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.000 flew all the way from Switzerland for the event and 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.640 actually made us from the report, you know, during the 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:04.240 event itself, because I was, as you know, a determinate 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.199 out of other magic students, and we actually were assaulted 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.360 by members of the crowd who would come up and 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.960 put their arms on their hands on our shoulders and 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.720 hor us. This is why people hate unions. And you know, hey, 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.280 I brought my my nine year old grandmother to this 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:26.079 and I have some you know, fifty million dollars ranch 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.520 and I'm being honored for this, but people pumping my trust, 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.520 people thumping other people's says, sticking fingers in our faces 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.839 and telling us, really that we ruined their special night. 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.000 And our response was, you know, I think that our 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.520 need to pay rent and feed ourselves is a little 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.400 bit more important than on your special night at the 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.000 the Art Museum by the ocean with the bosses of Champagne. 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:50.720 Yeah. 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.520 Yeah, And it's not like it was even a like 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.240 all those happening was that people who had given them 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:57.960 money or who they want them to, who do they 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.000 want to get money from, were being made to feel special. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:04.199 It wasn't as if you even interrupted like a like 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.520 a meeting or a function of the university. And unless 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.840 we consider the function of the university these days, seems 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.000 to be to get money and then distribute it to 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.640 people in positions of power in the university. So given 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.600 that right that this was an event, I guess which 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.200 reinforced the people who have authority in the university. It's 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.360 interesting to look what's not interesting, it's upsetting to look 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.360 at the nature of the process that these sixty seven 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.920 people are facing right, because it's not They're not being 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.320 accused in a court of doing a crime. They're being 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:41.520 accused by the university, in the university of breaking the 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.520 conduct rules of the university. So the university is like, 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.040 it's all parties apart from the defendant. Right, it's a judge, 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.920 it's a jury, it's a prosecuting lawyer and the executioner. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:55.680 So can you yeah, go ahead, I'll. 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.200 Just say something about that. You know that this was 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.040 very much related on the part of the university to 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.079 charge us as as under the student conduct violation, because 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.040 if they're charging us as students, they're not charging us 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.640 as workers. If we have workers, we would have getting 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.000 representation in our meetings, it would be part of that 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:22.840 litigation process. But as students, the context of the labor 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:27.240 fight that is the result altare for the entire event 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.440 is relevant that it can be divorced from that and 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.040 treated under You know, the music coades that are meant 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:41.680 to charge undergraduates who are drinking in their terms or 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.440 are sexually harassing their peers in their classes is not 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.680 something that is in my view appropriate at all to 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.280 apply to a labor dispute, which is what this was. 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.520 Yeah, Like, I think the only time I've been party 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.120 to these proceedings is when Anne the graduate did physically 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.960 assault someone who I was teaching with. But it's not 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.200 a normal procedure by any means, and certainly to use 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.120 against grad students are very clearly taking part in a 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.200 labor action. I think it's very telling that the university 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.800 is kind of using one system to circumvent the fair 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.400 bargaining and the unfair labor practices and all the things 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:26.520 that they seem really like, they seem almost like inexplicably 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:31.240 committed to not sticking to the contract, even though they 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.440 got a contract that was largely favorable to them and 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.480 not as much as people had wanted at the start 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.000 of the strike. So how does it work from here? Like, 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.280 what does this process look like? 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.800 Well, to start with, each of us has an individual 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:51.520 meeting with a representative of the university, and at that meeting, 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:56.000 we essentially have the response the option to either accept 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:01.120 responsibility for all the charges against us, or to say 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.080 that we do not accept that responsibility and want to 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.520 continue the process forward, at which point they will they 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:13.000 will schedule or attempt to schedule a conduct review Board meeting, 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:17.800 where I believe three representatives from who have been sort 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.600 of predetermined to serve on these conduct review boards will 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:26.600 judge the weight of the evidence in a preponderance of 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:30.000 the evidence standard, and at that point then the Office 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.560 of Student Conduct, if you are found responsible. I believe 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:37.160 that office is then what decides what the sanctions are 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:42.240 that you will face. So this is a bit of 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:47.280 an unprecedented process, at least for us we actually, I believe, 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.120 and I want to clarify some numbers. I think I 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:53.680 said sixty seven graduate students earlier, they were actually fifty 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:58.320 nine from this event who were charged, and that sixty 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.520 seven comes from a to who were charged for a 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:05.880 protest related to the university's attempt to fire workers for striking, 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.840 which is still ongoing. That protest took place in January, 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.640 and there that conduct process for those eight workers has 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.160 not yet resolved as we speak today on June twentieth, 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.959 So it's not clear how they are going to manage 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:24.240 the logistics of trying to charge six fifty nine workers 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.520 in a single case. It could, assuming they follow their 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.040 entire procedures by the book and don't dismiss any charges, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.119 it could take more than a year to resolve the 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:34.920 situation Jesus. 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:39.119 And for people who have like they're either defending or 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.600 advancing to candidacy or these are all things you can 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.320 do within grad school people who aren't familiar where you 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.439 sort of level up your grad student status. 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.760 I guess are people able to do that? 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:56.960 Yeah, Luckily this does not restrict your academic advancement. It 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.479 can potentially if it goes from quarter to quarter, they 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.879 can potentially put I believe, holds on registration. But I 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.280 think that's only if you don't sort of carry out 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.400 your sanctions, assuming your sanction is not suspension. I could 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.520 be a time correct if I'm wrong on that. But 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.359 what still could be the case is that you could 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.600 you know, and could well be the case for me 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.960 that I defend before the conclusion of this process. But 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.560 it could still end up as something that would be 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.879 on a contact record that could be released in certain 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:32.920 employment situations. So even if you are able to escape 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:39.359 the process, so to speak, it is not necessarily not 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.040 going to follow you after that point. 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:48.840 By all indicators who already at their first meeting, masking 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.600 or exact responsibility of course states that no, we die 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:59.879 foundations against us, But it seems as if the the 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.800 of student conduct is quite over problems. By this, people 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:06.720 have been trying to schedule a meeting to have not 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.240 gotten responses from the office. 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:09.560 Uh. 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.399 The office then gets back to them a week or 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.560 two later with you know, only one or two options. 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:16.879 Uh. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:22.120 The the really calculated evil of this is it means 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:26.359 charge is dropped on the very last day of the quarter, 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.200 which means that at least in the Arts and Humanities, 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.359 most of us are going out of town or are 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:39.639 conducting research or are on fellowships, so we're not around 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.480 to respond to these. And I think that that was 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.760 a decision that was purposefully made. But you know, to 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:50.120 to process this a hue number of students involved in 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:55.040 this is staggering, and I think that the office, a 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.200 lot of the offices are really struggling. The other thing 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.320 that I will say is we have it from the 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:05.680 informal channels that this is something that is being directed 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.000 from the very top, which is the same from the chancellor. 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:14.800 This is not something that infacial observers, you know, made 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.800 of something that the chancellor himself is directing. 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.680 Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, give me a chance it 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.040 was there. It also like it's just put me in 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.399 mind of twenty ten, when I don't think either of 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.320 you were at UCSD, but for those of us who were, 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.919 and there's a film about it actually called Dear White People, 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.960 But there was a party where people wore black face, 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.800 and this happened I think through a fraternity that was 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.239 associated with the university, and getting the university to do 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:49.879 anything disciplinary about that required hundreds off not thousands of 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.159 people to go on strike, to march, to occupy the 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:58.520 Chancellor's complex, and to like physically demand action for weeks 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:03.040 and weeks if not months from the Chancellor's system, right like, 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.960 and still it was an extremely unsatisfactory process. The resolution 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:11.040 was with extremely unsatisfactory. But I guess that. 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.679 There's a contemporaneous incident happening right now. I don't know 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.600 all the details, but it appears to be an individual 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:24.439 was a video or videos himself progressing a screening with 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.080 his professor on it and making new comments and a 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:33.960 whole variety of really missosialistic, quldly behavior. Apparently this is 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:37.080 this is stored to restraining or that he's received. But 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.480 as as universe is concerned, this is still a case 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.080 that's that's moving through it and it doesn't appear to 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:46.760 have had any immediate sanctions. We've heard stories of sexual assaults, 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:52.000 as you said, of racist harassment that I really don't know, 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:58.160 actually reported the student last summer for very threatening behavior 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:02.080 and the very much square english in my flash. 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:09.240 Yeah, it's it's it's yeah. The only thing that sort 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:12.600 of they jump to defend is capital, I guess, or 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.640 in this case the sort of administrators of the university. 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:19.960 And so this this could potentially play out for months. 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:24.840 What's the and it seems like everyone has accepting responsibility 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:29.399 such a strange word, because like, what's what happened is 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:31.840 what's a question really not who's responsible for it? 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:32.320 So much? 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.879 Right, Like you can accept responsibility for doing what was 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:39.400 a protected First Amendment activity, but like you obviously can't 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:41.120 accept responsibility for assault. 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:45.639 If you didn't assault somebody. But given that no one. 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:52.760 If sixty seven students had assaulting transor of you would 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:53.119 think that. 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.520 National Yeah, that would have been yeah, that would have 0:22:57.560 --> 0:22:59.240 been something I think, yeah, that's. 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:01.760 Like a beat down. But that didn't happen. 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:05.840 So what's the plan for defense, I guess is each case, 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:09.240 like an individual case, can they mount Can people mount 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:12.040 a joint defense like the j twenty one people did 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:16.119 in DC. Do we know yet, how does this work? 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:19.359 I'm not sure we entirely know yet. I think the 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:23.880 university can make the decision to consolidate cases that share evidence. 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:28.240 I don't believe they've made that determination yet. I think 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:31.280 what they are trying to do now, and this sort 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:34.199 of leads into another part that I think represents a 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:38.560 degree of sort of apathy, border on bordering on cruelty 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.720 of this process is that we've identified at least eighteen 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:47.160 graduate students who were either not physically present at all 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:50.160 or had merely registered for the event without even knowing 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:54.120 that this would take place, and those people have all 0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:56.520 been charged with these ect same things that everyone who 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.119 was intentionally part of the protest has been. So we 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:01.440 think that we're ath the individual stage where they are 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:05.320 trying to kind of they know that they have They're 0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:07.240 well aware that they caught a bunch of people that 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:12.120 had no involvement in this. But we think that we're 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:14.680 using really these individual meetings to figure out who those 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.440 people are to the best of their ability, and perhaps 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:20.480 further down the line, they may decide to try to 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:25.360 consolidate these cases to expedite the process, but it's hard 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:29.679 to say for sure. The again, this the important aspect 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:34.760 of this process is the fact that almost every element 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.680 of it, in every step and how that is carried out, 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.800 is entirely at the discretion of a handful of university administrators. 0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:46.720 There's no real appeal outside of the system, there's no 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:51.200 real accountability outside of the system, so they can simply 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:56.640 implement these things, you know, as as they see fit. 0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:58.000