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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: In the Last Days, convicted killer Carmelo Anthony gets a

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Speaker 2: brand new fleet of defense attorneys. This after his conviction

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Speaker 2: in the brutal track meet stab death of teen star

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Speaker 2: athlete Austin Metcalf. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: In the Last Days, Carmelo Anthony gets a whole fleet

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Speaker 2: of defense attorneys added to his team after his conviction

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Speaker 2: and the brutal stab death of teen athlete Austin Metcalf.

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Speaker 2: Civil rights and criminal defense attorneys are joining his legal

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Speaker 2: team pro bono without pay. After the conviction and the

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Speaker 2: sentence for stabbing Austin Metcalf dead.

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Speaker 3: Attorneys for Carmelo Anthony say the convicted murderer deserves a

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Speaker 3: new trial. His constitutional rights were violated. Among the issue's

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Speaker 3: attorney's site, the original trial was effectively closed to the public.

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Speaker 3: Jury instructions were misleading regarding self defense. Judge John Roach

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Speaker 3: publicly defended the verdict to reporters, and prosecutors did not

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Speaker 3: honor an off the record evidentiary agreement. The off the

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Speaker 3: record deal prevented, They say, the team from testifying in

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Speaker 3: his own defense, but.

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Speaker 2: Can even renowned defense attorneys refute facts like these.

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Speaker 4: The trial is over, the jury has spoken, and the

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Speaker 4: sentence is in. Joining us today Randy Kessler to talk

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Speaker 4: about what took place after the jury verdict that determined

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Speaker 4: Carmelo Anthony guilty and in a shocking way to go,

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Speaker 4: the jury only deliberated for three hours. This is an

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Speaker 4: amazing thing when you think about the magnitude of this case.

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Speaker 4: One of the things that was brought up, in particular

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Speaker 4: by Austin's dad, Austin Metcalf's dad said, this case is

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Speaker 4: not about race.

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Speaker 5: It never has been about race.

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Speaker 4: It's always been about teenagers in high school, and it

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Speaker 4: was made into a race issue. Outside of that all

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Speaker 4: of the media covering this case from around the country,

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Speaker 4: And it's amazing now that as we go forward with

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Speaker 4: this you break it down and it really does look

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Speaker 4: like two high school students, athletes that got into an

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Speaker 4: argument over what was the place for one team not

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Speaker 4: for the other. It was a track meet, there was rain,

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Speaker 4: and Carmelo Anthony went into Austin Metcalf's team area.

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Speaker 5: If you can remember back.

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Speaker 4: To high school, things were very important like that to

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Speaker 4: students in high school. As you look at it as

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Speaker 4: an adult, You're going, come on, you're really going to

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Speaker 4: argue about this?

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, in high school, you do argue about that.

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Speaker 4: And that's what this entire case was about in terms

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Speaker 4: of what started the disagreement, what became the argument that

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Speaker 4: ended in the death of Austin Metcalf. The jury decides

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Speaker 4: guilty after just three hours. Randy Kessler, attorney out of Atlanta,

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Speaker 4: longtime part of Nancy Grace's show over the years.

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Speaker 5: Randy, give me your ideas and thoughts about.

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Speaker 4: The jury verdict. Let's start with just the verdict of

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Speaker 4: Carmelo Anthony.

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Speaker 6: Thousands of thoughts going through olind Right, and you hit

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Speaker 6: on a few times the fact that it was only

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Speaker 6: three hours. You know, sometimes they could take three hours

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Speaker 6: to pick a four person, It could take three hours

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Speaker 6: to figure out where the jurors want to sit while

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Speaker 6: they're deliberating. To come up with a verdict in three

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Speaker 6: hours on a murder case, now, this isn't a shoplifting.

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Speaker 6: This is something that's very serious. You want to make

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Speaker 6: sure that our system that people think about it take

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Speaker 6: it seriously, which you know, every time you talk to

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Speaker 6: a jury out to the case. It's amazing how seriously

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Speaker 6: jurors take this, even though no one wants to be

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Speaker 6: on a jury. Once you're on it and you're sworn in,

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Speaker 6: you see how serious results are going to be in

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Speaker 6: the consequences for the community and for the defendant. People

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Speaker 6: take it seriously. Three hours. Defense really didn't have much

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Speaker 6: of a shot. When it goes three hours, you know

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Speaker 6: that there's not a lot you could have done. This

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Speaker 6: was going to be a guilty just a question was

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Speaker 6: it going to be one hour, two hours, three hours

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Speaker 6: or five or six. As a defense lawyer, the more

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Speaker 6: they deliberate, the more holes are being poked, the more

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Speaker 6: questions being asked, the more you are hopeful and optimistic.

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Speaker 6: And if you can get them to deliberate overnight and

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Speaker 6: go home and sleep on it and think, do I

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Speaker 6: want to put somebody away for something I'm not sure

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Speaker 6: they intended to do, that's better. When it comes back

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Speaker 6: to three hours, your heart sinks. As a defense lawyer.

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Speaker 4: When the jury gets their instructions from the judge and

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Speaker 4: they go back to the room, to the deliberation room,

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Speaker 4: the first thing they do is determine who's going to

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Speaker 4: be the four person, right, who's going to be in

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Speaker 4: charge of the jury. Okay, once they've decided, then you

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Speaker 4: mentioned sometimes that can take an extended period of time.

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Speaker 4: I've never been in that situation, so I only know

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Speaker 4: what I've been told. But once that jury four person

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Speaker 4: is picked, do most juries immediately go ahead and hey,

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Speaker 4: let's get a vote out there and find out where

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Speaker 4: we are.

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Speaker 6: Uh yeah, A lot of times you want to get

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Speaker 6: a read on the jury. But again, there's no playbook

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Speaker 6: for this. Nobody unless you've been a four person before,

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Speaker 6: and then you're only basing it on your one or

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Speaker 6: two or three experiences. You know, you haven't read a

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Speaker 6: book on how to be a four person. You know,

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Speaker 6: that's definitely what we hear that people say, let's let's

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Speaker 6: read the room. And what's interesting to me is, you know,

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Speaker 6: and I teach a class on jury trials at Emory

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Speaker 6: Law School and we get to watch the jury deliberate.

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Speaker 6: The student's final exam is a trial, and then you

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Speaker 6: watch the jury deliberate. And it's fascinating because after the

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Speaker 6: trial and you ask the jury, Okay, so what do

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Speaker 6: you think It's like?

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Speaker 7: Twelve people saw different trials. A lot of times.

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Speaker 6: It's like you go to a movie with a friend

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Speaker 6: and you come out and you say, well, then you

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Speaker 6: hate that guy, and you say, no, I like that guy.

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Speaker 6: You know, they all pick up on different things, So

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Speaker 6: sometimes just hurting the cats and getting them to figure

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Speaker 6: out where they're together and where they're apart can take time.

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Speaker 6: So it's really amazing they seem to be on the

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Speaker 6: same page or get on the same page pretty darn quickly.

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Speaker 4: One thing that I've seen and when I hear of

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Speaker 4: a three hour you know, jury deliberation, my first thought

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Speaker 4: is they all sat through the same thing as you mentioned,

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Speaker 4: and you know you're going to be using your brain

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Speaker 4: along the way, regardless of what instructions you're given about anything.

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Speaker 4: All of us have a tendency to judge things as

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Speaker 4: we go through, and you know, determining am I hearing

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Speaker 4: the truth or am I hearing a version of the truth?

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Speaker 4: What am I hearing from this particular person? And once

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Speaker 4: they're packed there, it seems to me like you would

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Speaker 4: have a pretty strong idea of what you think happened

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Speaker 4: at that point.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, jury comes go ahead.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, you would think that all twelve jurors would come

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Speaker 6: to the same conclusion because I all heard the same thing.

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Speaker 6: People hear things differently. They see and hear emphasis on

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Speaker 6: things differently, not only the evidence, but even the instructions

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Speaker 6: from the giants they might hear differently. You know, there's

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Speaker 6: those jokes about the people that see the sign out

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Speaker 6: by the beach that says no swimming aloud, and someone

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Speaker 6: else sees it as no swimming aloud. You know, how

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Speaker 6: you hear things, how you see things comes from your history.

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Speaker 6: That's why jury selection is so important. Do people follow

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Speaker 6: the rules as somebody who's been through a situation like this,

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Speaker 6: somebody who's going to empathize or sympathize with the defendant

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Speaker 6: or the victim, or the judge or the lawyers, You

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Speaker 6: know that jury vader. Picking the juris should take a

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Speaker 6: lot longer than it typically does. So it's not surprising

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Speaker 6: to me as a trial lawyer that when you get

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Speaker 6: the juries into the room to deliberate, they don't always say, yep,

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Speaker 6: we all heard it the same way. I mean, we're

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Speaker 6: not robots. That's why we have a jury system. If

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Speaker 6: it was robotic, if it was AI, if it was

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Speaker 6: artificial intelligence, there'd be calculations, check the box guilty period.

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Speaker 4: Now, in this particular case, was there any one thing

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Speaker 4: in the trial that would have had the most impact

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Speaker 4: later on with jurors and again only deliberating three hours,

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Speaker 4: they probably all had heard everything and made decisions along

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Speaker 4: the way to point them in that direction, and then

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Speaker 4: getting together and agreeing. Was there any one thing at

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Speaker 4: trial that actually proved the point of the prosecution?

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Speaker 6: You know, I think it's just a question of that situation.

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Speaker 6: If they saw themselves in that situation, how would they act?

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Speaker 6: And nobody wants to say, oh, I would have stabbed somebody,

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Speaker 6: And nobody would think, oh I would expect to be

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Speaker 6: stabbed that.

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Speaker 7: I mean, that's it's just a set of facts.

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Speaker 6: And every lawyer I've seen comment on this, and every

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Speaker 6: show I've seen, every report on it, everyone seems to

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Speaker 6: think it was predetermined that this was a hard, hard,

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Speaker 6: hard case. Because you take your body of life and

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Speaker 6: you come to the situation. Who could have thought of

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Speaker 6: a different way that could have been handled? Everybody right this.

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Speaker 6: You don't walk into someone's tent, you don't start a fight.

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Speaker 6: You don't even if it was provoked, even if it

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Speaker 6: was self defense, stabbing someone in the heart, because they

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Speaker 6: were in your you know, they wouldn't let you in

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Speaker 6: their tent. It just you know, it was a hard

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Speaker 6: one and A there wasn't I don't think there's one factor.

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Speaker 6: I don't think there is. The whole case was sort

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Speaker 6: of an A plus.

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Speaker 7: B equal C.

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Speaker 6: You know, he brought a knife to you know, they

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Speaker 6: jokes he brought enough to a gunfight. He brought a

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Speaker 6: knife to a try you've run. Hef to practice, so

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Speaker 6: there was some premeditation of some plan that he might

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Speaker 6: have to use it, and then he pulled it out

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Speaker 6: and stabbed somebody. He you know, the only way to

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Speaker 6: get around that would be to testify, and of course

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Speaker 6: that's always a risk, and he didn't testify in his

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Speaker 6: own defense. But when you say that it's self defense

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Speaker 6: and I was defending myself, I think jury's got to

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Speaker 6: see you and hear you, and taste you and fail

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Speaker 6: you and believe you that you really were fearful for

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Speaker 6: your life and that you'd had no other choice. It's

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Speaker 6: hard to have a third party argue, oh, who's defending himself.

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Speaker 7: That's why he stamped him. That sounds like after the

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Speaker 7: fact rationale.

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Speaker 4: And it's exactly how it played out in court that

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Speaker 4: it didn't work, the idea that it was self defense.

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Speaker 5: I made a point a minute.

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Speaker 4: Ago that outside of the area where this took place

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Speaker 4: in Texas, the race game has been played since day one.

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Speaker 4: And yet I just I remember Austin's dad in particular,

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Speaker 4: pointing out it's never been about race.

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Speaker 5: It is about high school athletes in an area.

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Speaker 4: And if you just remember back to high school and

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Speaker 4: how important things were, you know, things in high school

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Speaker 4: or have a heightened importance in our lives just because

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Speaker 4: we don't have that history to go with to balance

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Speaker 4: things out, and you know that this is an important

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Speaker 4: part of life in high school. This is my area.

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Speaker 4: You're not allowed in it. And yes, you brought a

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Speaker 4: knife to a track meet. You got to explain that,

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Speaker 4: and it wasn't explained. Now the jury came back with

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Speaker 4: thirty five years. Thirty five years in prison, and in

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Speaker 4: the state of Texas, the prisoner has to spend at

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Speaker 4: least half that time before they are eligible for parole.

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Speaker 5: Is that correct right?

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Speaker 7: And it may not be half. It depends on what

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Speaker 7: happens going forward. Is he a model prisoner? Is your

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Speaker 7: role model?

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Speaker 6: Does he do Bible study and help his fellow inmates,

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Speaker 6: or does he get in trouble and then the pro

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Speaker 6: board and this is you know, people, we don't even

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Speaker 6: know who's going to be on the pro board fifteen sixteen,

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Speaker 6: seventeen years from now.

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Speaker 7: Look at it.

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Speaker 6: And they decided at the time, not how bad was

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Speaker 6: the crime so much, but what is he likely to

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Speaker 6: do if we let him out of jail? Is he

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Speaker 6: a model herson? Is he going to get back in

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Speaker 6: to society? Or we're gonna give them a chance. And

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Speaker 6: maybe that's why the jury only gave thirty five years

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Speaker 6: to give him that shot at redemption, that shot at

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Speaker 6: getting back in. He's a young man and hopefully there's

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Speaker 6: good in all of this, and hopefully there's some good

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Speaker 6: in him that can come out of this and he

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Speaker 6: ends up getting back into society. Is what the jury

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Speaker 6: I think hoped for, because if they thought there's absoutely

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Speaker 6: no redeeming qualities, they would have thrown the proverbial book

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Speaker 6: at of life for ninety nine years.

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Speaker 4: Which is one of that There was an option they

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Speaker 4: could have gone that far, but opted for the thirty

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Speaker 4: five years. The prosecution wanted more, and many people felt

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Speaker 4: like this case deserved a longer sentence, of course, of

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Speaker 4: the defense and many others felt like it deserved less.

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Speaker 4: I guess that's again one of those things that you

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Speaker 4: can't what's going to happen in the future or what

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Speaker 4: was going through the guy's mind when the in this

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Speaker 4: case where the convicted doesn't take the stand and doesn't

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Speaker 4: say for himself, I really did the wrong thing.

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Speaker 5: I'm really sorry, I should have never done this X

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Speaker 5: y Z.

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Speaker 4: Without having that to go on, does that impact the

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Speaker 4: judge and the judge's ability to pass sentence.

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Speaker 6: Yes, And of course the jury is the one who

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Speaker 6: sentenced them in this case. And you know, we're all

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Speaker 6: a composite of our history and our combined experience.

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Speaker 7: You know, who are we to judge right? And how

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Speaker 7: do we know?

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Speaker 6: And again, from the victim's point of view, there's no

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Speaker 6: sentence that's harsh enough. Right from the victim's family point

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Speaker 6: of view, there's no sense that's harsh enough. Why does

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Speaker 6: this guy get to go on living when their son

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Speaker 6: didn't get to go on living, when their brother doesn't

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Speaker 6: get to go on living.

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Speaker 7: On the other hand, if.

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Speaker 6: You're the state and you line up all the defendants

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Speaker 6: that you've prosecuted, you have mass murders, you have people

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Speaker 6: that have shot babies, you have people that have done

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Speaker 6: stuff that absolutely deserve a harsher sentence. So is it

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Speaker 6: on that spectrum or do you look at a case

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Speaker 6: by case It's a case by case situation. It depends

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Speaker 6: on who was on the jury. How do they feel

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Speaker 6: about these senses? How do they feel about incarceration, How

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Speaker 6: do they feel about punishment? Do they identify with the

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Speaker 6: victims because they have somebody who was a victim of violence?

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Speaker 6: Do they identify with the defendant because they have somebody

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Speaker 6: who was accused of being a criminal. I mean, it's

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Speaker 6: just a combination of twelve people's shared experiences and the

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Speaker 6: result is, you know, it's like making saults that you

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Speaker 6: put it all on the hoppurn, it spits out thirty

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Speaker 6: five years.

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Speaker 7: That was probably some sort of compromise.

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Speaker 6: I'm sure there were people on the jury they wanted

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Speaker 6: it to be excuse me, want to be one hundred years.

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Speaker 6: I'm sure there's someone on the jury that thought thirty

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Speaker 6: five years was too much. This is the natural result

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Speaker 6: of twelve people coming to a conclusion, and they did

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Speaker 6: their conclusion, and they got out of the room and

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Speaker 6: they did their job. This is one of those unique

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Speaker 6: cases where the lawyers probably had to prepare as much,

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Speaker 6: if not more, for the sentencing phase as for the

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Speaker 6: trial phase because they knew there's a strong likelihood. You know,

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Speaker 6: when you're a lawyer, whether you have a winner or

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Speaker 6: a loser of a case, and you don't always win

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Speaker 6: the winners, you don't always lose the loser. But generally speaking,

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Speaker 6: if you know there's a strong likelihood that you're going

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Speaker 6: to lose the guilt innocence phase, you got to practice

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Speaker 6: and prep for the sensing phase. And in Texas it's

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Speaker 6: pretty quick. They turn out to do the sensing right away.

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Speaker 6: You don't have months like you do in some states

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Speaker 6: to prepare and gather your witnesses. So they've had to

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Speaker 6: prepare for the sensing and the guilt or innocence phase

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Speaker 6: at the same time. Hindsight's twenty twenty Hindsight says they

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Speaker 6: should have fifteen more witnesses testify as to what a

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Speaker 6: likable person this was, and it had to be something

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Speaker 6: that he's regretful and that he will turn it around

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Speaker 6: and give him some time. I'm sure everybody's second guessing

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Speaker 6: it now. On the defense side. But that's my only

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Speaker 6: comment is that what a heavy burden for the defense

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Speaker 6: and their team to get ready for a guilt innocence

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Speaker 6: and to simultaneously be thinking, well, how do I defend

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Speaker 6: him if he's found guilty, Because you want to start

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Speaker 6: off hoping he's not gonna be found guilty. He won't

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Speaker 6: have to get there. But our job is to prepare

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Speaker 6: for the worst. The worst was a guilty plea. I

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Speaker 6: made a guilty verdict, and then you got to move

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Speaker 6: into your next job, which is a whole nother trial

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Speaker 6: pretty much, which might even be more important than the

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Speaker 6: guilty innocence, which is how much of a penalty is

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Speaker 6: he going to pay? Tough position for the warriors, tough

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Speaker 6: position for the families. But of course the victims are

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Speaker 6: the ones we have to think about, and hopefully they're

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Speaker 6: feeling like they got justice.

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Speaker 8: And his brother was holding him, trying to hold the

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Speaker 8: blood in, and he passed. My son watched his brother

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Speaker 8: die in his arms.

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Speaker 4: During a track meet between Memorial High School and Centennial

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Speaker 4: High School in Frisco, Texas, a light rain begins to

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Speaker 4: fall and athletes take cover under tents with their respective

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Speaker 4: teams at Kukendall Stadium. Memorial High School athlete Austin Metcalf

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Speaker 4: finds Centennial High School athlete Carmelo Anthony under the Memorial

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Speaker 4: High School tent and tells him he needs to move

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Speaker 4: from under his team's tent. When Anthony refuses, words are

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Speaker 4: exchanged and Anthony tells Metcalf, touch me and see what happens.

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Speaker 2: He first heard from the victim's father that from our

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Speaker 2: friends at Fox four joining us an all star panel

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Speaker 2: to make sense of a senseless and brutal stabbing. I

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Speaker 2: cannot get the image out of my mind of this

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Speaker 2: star athlete bleeding out dead as his twin brother tried

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Speaker 2: to stop the bleeding, holding him in his arms. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've been to plenty of high school track events, my

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Speaker 2: son has been involved in track from the get go,

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Speaker 2: and I can't even imagine a fatal stabbing over a

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Speaker 2: seat and a tent straight out to special guests joining us.

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Speaker 2: Katie Barber, Senior digital content producer at my San Antonio

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Speaker 2: dot Com. Katie, thank you for being with us. What

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Speaker 2: do we believe happened that led up to the horrible

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Speaker 2: stabbing death of this young star athlete? Literally scrubbed inside

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Speaker 2: and why did the suspect have a knife at a

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Speaker 2: track mate.

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Speaker 9: It's really not clear why he had a knife at

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Speaker 9: the track meet on April second, but unfortunately he did.

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Speaker 9: One witness told police that they were sitting with Metcalf

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Speaker 9: under their school tent when someone they didn't know, now

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Speaker 9: identified as Carmelo Anthony came over to them and he

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Speaker 9: is allegedly when I grabbed the bag when he was

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Speaker 9: confronted and reached inside and said, touch me and see

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Speaker 9: what happens.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what wait? Hold on, Katie Barber joining me from

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Speaker 2: my San Antonio dot com. Who said what? Who sat

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Speaker 2: down where? Who said what? And who said touch me

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Speaker 2: and see what happens? Give me proper names.

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Speaker 9: One witness told an officer that they were sitting with

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Speaker 9: Metcalf under the school's tent when Carmelo Anthony came over

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Speaker 9: to them. While they were in the tent, the witness said,

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Speaker 9: Metcalf told Anthony to leave the tent, and when he

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Speaker 9: did that, Anthony grabbed his bag, opened it it, reached

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Speaker 9: inside and said touch me and see what happens. And

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Speaker 9: then police said in the doctor that no one believed

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Speaker 9: that he had a weapon at the time.

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Speaker 2: Okay, if we have the facts correct, the suspect stabbed

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Speaker 2: an unarmed teen boy. But yet I'm hearing that the

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Speaker 2: suspect has walked free. I am also learning that it

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Speaker 2: was urged in court that the suspect has no criminal history.

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Speaker 2: He's a juvenile. I'm listen to this.

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Speaker 10: Anthony's father was questioned about an incident involving his son

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Speaker 10: that happened at Carmelo's High School in February. The Daily

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Speaker 10: Mail refers to the incident as an altercation assault, but

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Speaker 10: as the situation was handled internally by the Frisco Independent

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Speaker 10: School District, it is unclear if Anthony was the aggressor

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Speaker 10: or merely a witness to the incident, or even what

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Speaker 10: type of incident occurred.

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Speaker 8: And his brother was holding him, trying to hold the

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Speaker 8: blood in, and he passed. My son watched his brother

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Speaker 8: die in his arms.

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Speaker 2: That's from our friends at Fox for Dallas Fort Worth News. Okay,

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Speaker 2: let me understand this straight out. To trial lawyer Lisa Herrick,

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Speaker 2: partner at Vargie Somerset and former juvenile prosecutor, Lisa, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us when I can't get a

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Speaker 2: straight answer. That makes me think that there is subterfuge.

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Speaker 2: So if the suspect, who is the admitted stabber of

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Speaker 2: an unarmed teen at a high school track meet, when

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Speaker 2: the stabber's camp is asked about an incident involving an

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Speaker 2: assault at the school, and I can't get a straight answer,

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Speaker 2: it tells me that somebody is covering, because if the

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Speaker 2: suspect was just a witness to an assault, or a

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Speaker 2: good samaritan or the champion that's stopped the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: we would have heard that, wouldn't we. I mean, they're

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Speaker 2: trying to get bond. They did get bond, So what

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Speaker 2: is this prior incident? And does it concern you that

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Speaker 2: when the suspect's father is questioned about this, as he's

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Speaker 2: urging his son's a good character, we don't get a

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Speaker 2: straight answer.

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Speaker 11: Well, what I would want to know is where any

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Speaker 11: criminal charges brought because of it? And or was Carmelo

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Speaker 11: suspended or expelled or did he have any sort of

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Speaker 11: school disciplinary action as a result of it? Because if

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Speaker 11: neither of those things are true, it does make me

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Speaker 11: believe that he probably wasn't the aggressor. Criminal charges don't

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Speaker 11: necessarily have to be brought due to a fight at school.

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Speaker 11: But schools are very likely to have some sort of

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Speaker 11: disciplinary action because of a fight school, especially if it

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Speaker 11: was one sided, especially for a person who was an aggressor.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it disturbs me that someone is asking for

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Speaker 2: a reduced bond to walk free after stabbing an unarmed

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Speaker 2: teen dead and then not coming clean about what happened

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Speaker 2: at a prior school incident. I mean the father, Carmelo

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Speaker 2: Anthony's father was questioned about the incident involving his son

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Speaker 2: at Anthony's high school. So why am I not getting

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Speaker 2: a straight answer? Dave Mack? That changes everything. If there

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Speaker 2: was a prior assault by Carmelo Anthony on another think

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Speaker 2: it through, Dave mac For Pete's sake, this would be

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Speaker 2: a similar transaction if it's true, because Anthony would be

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Speaker 2: attacking another high schooler. I'd like to find out if

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Speaker 2: that victim was armed or unarmed. I'd like to find

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Speaker 2: out if Anthony was armed or unarmed, the extent of

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Speaker 2: the attack. Did it rise to an aggravated assault with

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Speaker 2: fists or feet? I don't know, do we know anything

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Speaker 2: or was that completely glossed over in the bond hearing.

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Speaker 12: We don't have an answer, right, it was completely glossed

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Speaker 12: over in the hearing, Nancy, the question was what happened,

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Speaker 12: and the answer was nothing. It was like a tap dance.

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Speaker 12: We cannot find out any information because it was handled

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Speaker 12: by the school district, by their own investigation, and that's

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Speaker 12: the only thing we know happened at school. They covered

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Speaker 12: I didn't want to say covered up. They said they

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Speaker 12: dealt with it and that was the end of it.

438
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 12: Dad didn't volunteer any information whatsoever about his son. Ian

439
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 12: be honest as a dad. If my son was accused

440
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 12: of doing something, and in this particular case he hadn't,

441
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 12: I would have been screaming, absolutely, here's what happened, and

442
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 12: I would tell you the whole story right then. I

443
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 12: wouldn't just walk away like I needed an umbrella to

444
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 12: get out of the sun.

445
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 8: Was able to see my son on the gurney with

446
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 8: a huge hole and blood all over him, and they

447
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 8: were pumping him. He wasn't breathing, His eyes would rolled

448
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 8: back in his head.

449
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 13: Centennial High School's Carmelo Anthony reaches inside his bag, grabs

450
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 13: a knife and stabs Austin Metcalf in the chest underneath

451
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 13: the Memorial's High School pop up tent, and then he

452
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 13: runs away as Metcalf's twin brother, Hunter comes to his

453
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 13: brother's aid. Witnesses point out Anthony to a nearby middle

454
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 13: school resource officer, who chases the suspect down.

455
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: At first, you were hearing Austin's father speaking to our

456
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: friends at Fox for the family devastated. I cannot even

457
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 2: imagine what it would be like for the father to

458
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 2: see this, much less the twin brother holding Austin in

459
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 2: his arms trying to stop the blood. I wouldn't have

460
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: understood it if I didn't have twins of my own.

461
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: They're practically joined at the hip and mineor boy girl

462
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: much less boy boy or girl girl, that play all

463
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: their sports together, that do everything to get other. Having

464
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 2: your twin bleed out dead in your arms, let me

465
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 2: go straight out to a special guest joining us. Also

466
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 2: like Lisa Herrick joining us from this jurisdiction, Doctor Kendall

467
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: Crowns with US Chief Medical Examiner Terrance County. That's Fort

468
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 2: Worth never lack a business in that Morgue, esteemed lecturer

469
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Texas Christian University,

470
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 2: and launching a brand new podcast make him in the

471
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 2: Morgue April fourteen, Doctor Kimdall Crowns. I know you've studied

472
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 2: the case very carefully. Was there a way his twin

473
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 2: brother could have saved Austin.

474
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 14: I No, there wouldn't have been because the stab wound

475
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 14: was in the heart unless he could be gotten to

476
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 14: an emergency room like immediately, and they may been able

477
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 14: to save him, but more likely than not, he was

478
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 14: going to die anyway. That type of injury to the heart,

479
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 14: there's just really no coming back unless you're basically in

480
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 14: ther when you get stabbed. Explain why, Because it's your heart,

481
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 14: it's you know, it's all your blood's coming through there,

482
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 14: it's all being pumped out. And then when you have

483
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 14: an now hole in your heart, it's bleeding into your

484
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 14: chest cavity and you have to close that hole up

485
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 14: in the heart, So you'd have to crack the chest open,

486
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 14: get in there and try and fix the heart, and

487
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 14: there's just so much blood loss because of the size

488
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 14: of the hole. It's it's near impossible to save that individual,

489
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 14: and just putting pressure on it at the scene, all

490
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 14: that's going to create is they're just going to bleed

491
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 14: into their chest.

492
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 7: Cavity.

493
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about what you're saying, doctor Kingdall Crowns,

494
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 2: because Katie Barber was Austin stabbed in the heart.

495
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 15: The arrest document states he was stabbed in the chest.

496
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: So interesting, I wonder how close to the heart he

497
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: was stabbed. So okay, daughter killing Crowns, let's digest that.

498
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: Not stabbed in the heart, stab in the chest. Does

499
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: that make a difference in your analysis?

500
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 14: So it depends on where exactly in the chest you

501
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 14: go up. But if you're kind of in the midline

502
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 14: or to the left, that's going to be the heart.

503
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 14: You go up a little higher, it's the aorda, which

504
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 14: is the main vessel coming off the heart. You're going

505
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 14: to bleed out again in just a matter of minutes

506
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 14: from that as well, there's no saving them at the scene.

507
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 14: You go to a little to the side one way

508
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 14: or another. You've punctured at the chest, punctured the lung,

509
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 14: and that'll cause a collapse lung that causes a lot

510
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 14: of hemorrhage.

511
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 7: That one.

512
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 14: You may be able to save the person if you

513
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 14: can get him to the hospital fast enough. But from

514
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 14: all the information I've seen, it doesn't sound like it

515
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 14: got stabbed in the chest in the area of a lung.

516
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 14: It's more probably centralized hitting him in the heart.

517
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: So, Doctor Kendall Crowns, if I were explaining this to

518
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: a jury, okay, I would take everything that you just

519
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: said and paraphrase it in openings and closings, and I

520
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 2: would repeat it in practically every one of my questions

521
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 2: that I asked you on the stand, and of course

522
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 2: a shortened way. But you're saying, there's no way, twin

523
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: brother Hunter could have saved Austin, because even if Hunter

524
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: could have pushed down where Austin was bleeding, and so

525
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: it would look like to the naked eye that he

526
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: had stopped the bleeding, the bleeding would still be happening

527
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: underneath the skin, and the blood would then be pumping

528
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: straight into the lungs. So he would die on his

529
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: own bloot in his lungs. I mean, there was no

530
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: way he could have saved him. Are you sure? Do

531
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: you feel confident in that?

532
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 14: Yes? I feel very confident in that.

533
00:27:59,240 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: Uh.

534
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 14: If he puts his hand on his chest and he

535
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 14: continues bleeding into his chest cavity, it's going to fill

536
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 14: up his chest cavity and it's going to make it

537
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 14: hard for him to breathe, and he'll basically die from

538
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 14: lack of oxygen. That actually takes longer. From the descriptions

539
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 14: I've read from the scene, he kind of dies in

540
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 14: a matter of minutes. To me, that sounds like a

541
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 14: major vessel was hit or the heart and he was

542
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 14: going to die no matter what was done.

543
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 4: Seventeen year old Austin Metcalf is being held by his

544
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 4: twin brother, Hunter, who is trying to stop the bleeding

545
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 4: after seventeen year old Carmelo Anthony allegedly stabs Austin in

546
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 4: the chest, piercing his heart. First responders arrive and take

547
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 4: over treatment of Austin as officers round up eyewitnesses to

548
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 4: the event to find out what happened. Hunter Metcalf is

549
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 4: so distraught he can barely speak to police, but officers

550
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 4: locate about two dozen student athletes and four coaches who

551
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 4: witness the stabbing and begin taking statements.

552
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Gray.

553
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: Just weeks after our Texas jury convicts Carmelo Anthony of

554
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: murder and sentencing him to hard jail time in the

555
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: brutal stab death of a fellow teen, Austin metcalf, A

556
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: brand new team of high profile lawyers take over the appeal.

557
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 3: Attorneys for Carmelo Anthony asked for Judge John Roach to

558
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: be removed from post trial hearings because of his bias.

559
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 3: In court filings, Anthony's attorneys say the judge made comments

560
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 3: to news reporters following the trial. When a reporter asked

561
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: Roach if the jury got it right, he responded, yeah,

562
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 3: they did. The judge then further explained himself and his rulings.

563
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: Those lawyers Russell Wilson, Gary Bledsoe, Michael ware Brooke, Close

564
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: with Ben Crump law Sean Deretia, and Justin Moore, an

565
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: entire fleet of defense attorneys. But can they overcome facts

566
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: like these?

567
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 10: A school resource officer is first on the scene in

568
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 10: confronts Carmelo Anthony, telling the suspect to put his hands

569
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 10: up in the air. Anthony tells the officer I was

570
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 10: protecting myself, claiming Metcalf quote put his hands on him Anthony.

571
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 10: Here's the officer saying he has the alleged stabbing suspect

572
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 10: in custody, and Anthony replies, I'm not alleged I did it.

573
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 2: Wow, I'm not alleged I did it. Joining me now

574
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: in addition to our other guest, Barry Hutchinson, renowned law

575
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 2: enforcement vet of twenty six years detective now chief operator

576
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: of Barry In Associates Investigative Services. Very thank you for

577
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: being with us. Did you hear what the suspect said

578
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: and I quote, I was protecting myself that Austin quote

579
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: put his hands on me, and that would be suspect

580
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: Carmelo Anthony. Austin put his hands on Carmelo Anthony. According

581
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: to Anthony Anthony, hears the school resource officer say he

582
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 2: has the alleged stabbing suspect and responds, I'm not alleged

583
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: I did it.

584
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 16: Yeah, that's a pretty damning utterance from an evidentiary value.

585
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 16: And you know he pretty much admitted to the crime

586
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 16: by making that statement.

587
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: Kate, Barry, Barry, I know that. I just read you

588
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: what he said.

589
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: I'm asking you.

590
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: What the state is going to do to prove that

591
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: and what the defense is going to do to try

592
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: to get away from it.

593
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 16: Well, the witnesses, they're going to contradict what he says anyway,

594
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 16: And you know there's twelve of those folks apparently or

595
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 16: more and they're going to make a statement that contradicts

596
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 16: what he says. That's pretty much gonna outweigh what he says.

597
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 16: The state's going to make form with prosecution. From that point,

598
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 16: his defense is going to be that it's you know

599
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 16: what he said originally, that it was self defense, that

600
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 16: he was in fear of his life, which it's going

601
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 16: to be awful hard and substantiate that, as you addressed earlier,

602
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 16: without the thread of equal violence to substantiate him music

603
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 16: badly force.

604
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: Was that your bond.

605
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 15: Export its fine.

606
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: Day. That's one of my friends at Fox for Dallas

607
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: Fort Worth News to Katie Barbara joining me my san

608
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: Antonio dot com. What happened at the bond hearing.

609
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 15: His attorney was.

610
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 9: Asked about the knife, and he refused to answer a

611
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 9: question about it. He said, he just said, for unknown reasons,

612
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 9: Carmelo brought the knife to the school, but uh and

613
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 9: the district attorney also acknowledged that it was for unknown reasons.

614
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 9: So they're not prepared to go into that conversation. But

615
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 9: it seems to be the most pressing comment or most

616
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,239
Speaker 9: pressing detail about the case right now.

617
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: Okay, who asked who about why the knife was brought

618
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 2: to the track.

619
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 9: Meat Howard's attorney was asked by the media after the

620
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 9: hearing about this, and he just said it would be

621
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 9: irresponsible for me or them to say why he brought

622
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 9: the knife, and they're asking the public to.

623
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: With Okay, so hold on, Katie Barber. Let me understand.

624
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: I asked you what happened to the bond hearing, and

625
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: you told me something that happened outside the bond hearing.

626
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: But I want to follow up on that. You're telling

627
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: me that Carmelo, Anthony's lawyer was asked why Anthony brought

628
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: a knife to the track Meat? Do I have it

629
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: right so far? Katie Barber.

630
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 15: Yeah, he was asked why he brought the knife?

631
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: Right, I got it, Yes, got it. I got it

632
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: the first time. So hold on right there. Lisa Herrick

633
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 2: veteran trial lawyer who has handled cases in juve juvenile justice.

634
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 2: So the lawyer wouldn't answer why Anthony brought a knife

635
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: to a track meet. Here's my question. I'm sure you're

636
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: familiar with implicit intent to commit a crime, are you not? Yes?

637
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: For instance, if I say, okay, Lisa Herrick, I've got

638
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 2: a gun, it's loaded, and now I'm going to kill you, Bam.

639
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: That's explicit, it's stated, and the law recognizes that. But

640
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 2: there is also implicit intent. For instance, if I reach

641
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: into my gym bag and take out a knife and

642
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 2: shove it into your heart, I don't have to say, Lisa,

643
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 2: now I'm going to stab you dead. It's implicitly proven

644
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: by my actions. I don't have to announce them. This

645
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 2: is the problem Carmelo Anthony's lawyers are going to have.

646
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: Implicit and explicit intent are equal in the eyes of

647
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: Lady Justice. Under the law, they carry equal weight. Him

648
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 2: bringing a knife and then using it to stab someone

649
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 2: dead is implicit intent to commit a crime. That's why

650
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: the lawyer wouldn't answer that question, Lisa Herrick, I.

651
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 11: Think that's possibly why he wouldn't answer. I also would

652
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 11: like to know what kind of knife it was. If

653
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 11: we're talking about a largely hunting knife, there's probably no

654
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 11: reason why he should be carrying that. Maybe there is,

655
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 11: and his attorneys just don't feel like disclosing that at

656
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 11: this point. But if fits a small pocket knife or

657
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 11: like a Swiss army knife, maybe he carries that for

658
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 11: other reasons. Maybe he just happened to have it in

659
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 11: his backpack and used it for self defense. We don't

660
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 11: know what kind of knife it was at this point,

661
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 11: or at least I don't know, and I think that

662
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 11: that makes a difference.

663
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: I think that matters, you know what. I think you're right,

664
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: Lisa Herrick. I think you're absolutely right. If it's a

665
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 2: pen knife or a folding knife, yeah, a lot of

666
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: guys may carry those around. You're absolutely right. So the

667
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: type of knife is going to be very important. It's

668
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: my understanding. It's a fixed blade.

669
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: I don't know that.

670
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 2: In other words, not a knife that you fold out.

671
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: It's a knife with the blade attached and it's not foldable.

672
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: But we'll find out. That's a really good point, you know,

673
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: isn't it interesting at Leasta Herick, how one small fact

674
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: can change the terrain the topography of the case. Because

675
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: if he shows up like a knife, for instance, out

676
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: of the Brian Coburger case, a fixed blade army knife, right,

677
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: a military style knife with a sheath, that's much more

678
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: menacing and much more of an implicit threat to commit

679
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 2: a crime as opposed to a foldable pen knife. You're

680
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 2: absolutely right. I want to get back to the bond

681
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: hearing I want to find out why the known, the

682
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 2: admitted stabber of an unarmed boy at a track meet

683
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,959
Speaker 2: for Pete's Sega High School track meet, has walked free.

684
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: Listen to this.

685
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 4: Just before his bond hearing, Carmelo Anthony's family retains Mike Howard,

686
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 4: a Dallas criminal defense attorney. The change of attorney is

687
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 4: announced by the Next Generation Action Network, a nonprofit that

688
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 4: is supporting Carmelo Anthony. Howard represents Anthony in court as

689
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 4: the defense seeks to have bond for Anthony lowered from

690
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 4: one million dollars to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

691
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 10: Prosecutors question Andrew Anthony, the father of the accused, why

692
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 10: Carmelo Anthony should have his bond reduced when the family

693
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 10: has already raised over four hundred thousand dollars from a

694
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:36,959
Speaker 10: crowdfunding site.

695
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 2: Lisa here joining me, veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction.

696
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 2: Lisa explain again in a nutshell, what is now emerging

697
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 2: as the defense And you know what, I haven't even

698
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 2: gotten to these sick conspiracy theories that are multiplying promulgating online.

699
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: Get to that in a moment, But I pray that

700
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 2: since parents have not seen what is being said online.

701
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: It's total BS technical legal term. But Lisa in a

702
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 2: nutshell in regular people talk, do not throw a Latin

703
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 2: phrase at me, Lisa Herrick and I know that you

704
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 2: can stand your ground? How and the hay is that

705
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: going to apply here? We normally think of it as,

706
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: let's just say somebody tries to break in your house.

707
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: You don't have to run.

708
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: You can shoot them right then and there. If you're

709
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 2: so disposed standing your ground, You're in a place you're

710
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: supposed to be. You have authority to be there, and

711
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 2: no one can make you leave. Now, explain how that's

712
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: gonna work in a high school track tent.

713
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 11: Right, stand your ground. We commonly use the phrase no

714
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 11: duty to retreat, so it some places will, like some

715
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 11: jurisdictions will require that you attempt to remove yourself from

716
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 11: the danger. That's not the case in Texas. In Texas,

717
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 11: if you're presented with a threat, with a danger, you

718
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 11: have the right to defend yourself and stand your ground

719
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 11: means you don't have to try to leave the danger first.

720
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: Well, I'm reading the supplemental arrest report and the narrative

721
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 2: is written by officer Eduardo Cortes. Cortes states suspect was

722
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: on the track at the north end. There was a

723
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 2: chain link that separated officer Cortes from the suspect. Cortes

724
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 2: gives the suspect instructions to keep his hands in the air,

725
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: and at this time suspect verbally said, out loud, and

726
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: this is considered a voluntary statement, quote, I was protecting myself.

727
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: Cortes goes on to note he had not questioned the

728
00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: suspect about the incident, but suspect blurted that out. Then stated,

729
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: while walking him off the track, suspect states, quote, he

730
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 2: put his hands on me. Katie Barber joining me, senior

731
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: digital content producer my san Antonio dot Com, Katie. My

732
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: understanding from having read the police reports and the witness

733
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 2: statements is that the suspect goes under the other size tent,

734
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: right the other school's tent. At that point, Austin says,

735
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: this isn't your tent. Get out of here. At that point,

736
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: at that point, what does the suspect do.

737
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 9: Police says that when he's told to move out of

738
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 9: the tent, that he grabbed his bag, opened it and

739
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 9: reached inside. And this is when he tells Austin touch

740
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 9: me and see what happens, according to police, and.

741
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: So naturally Austin touched him, Yeah, exactly.

742
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 9: Police say that he proceeded to touch Carmelo, and then

743
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 9: Carmelo then postures and tells Anthony and tells Austin to

744
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 9: punch him and see what happens.

745
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 15: A short time later.

746
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: Police don't say, say, to your understanding, Katie Barber, were

747
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: any punches Throne, did Austin ever hit the suspect?

748
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,879
Speaker 15: It hit? It doesn't say.

749
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 9: It says he grabbed Anthony after that threat to tell

750
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 9: him to move, but it doesn't. But police do not say.

751
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 9: Witnesses did not tell police that he was punched. But

752
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 9: when he was grabbed by Austin is when he pulled

753
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 9: out the knife and stabbed him once in the chest,

754
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 9: is what police say.

755
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 13: A witness reported a police escort Carmelo Anthony to a

756
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 13: squad car. Anthony says he put his hands on me.

757
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 17: I told him not to.

758
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 13: Anthony also asks officers if the victim was going to

759
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 13: be okay and if what happened could be considered self defense.

760
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 13: Officers take evidence photos showing blood on Anthony's hands, but

761
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 13: don't find the knife on him.

762
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

763
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 2: In the last days, just weeks after his murder conviction,

764
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: Carmelo Anthony hadds high profile attorneys to his legal team,

765
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 2: all working pro bono. One of them Mike Howard. Who

766
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: is Mike Howard? He's a Dallas Fort Worth criminal defense

767
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: attorney who has spent his career representing people charged with

768
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 2: felonies in both state and federal court. But can someone

769
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 2: even of his ilk, overcome damning facts?

770
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 8: He say, I'm gonna come over and see you this week,

771
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 8: so can look forward to it.

772
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 7: Hey, I love you, dad.

773
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 8: That's a love you, Tucson.

774
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 16: Those were the last words.

775
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 2: Ever heard from me, the author and the twin speaking

776
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: to our friends at Dallas Morning News. What about the

777
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: blood evidence in this case? With conflicting witness reports, with

778
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 2: the suspect claiming self defense and stand your ground although

779
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: no punches were seen thrown, that blood evidence becomes critical.

780
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 2: Remember it was raining. The track meet is outside.

781
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 5: Listen as law enforcement and paramedics arrive on scene. The

782
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 5: rain is falling harder.

783
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 4: One officer moves the memorial tent over the victim of

784
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 4: medics train to save his life and finding the bloody

785
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 4: knife in the stands quickly takes photos of it before

786
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 4: the rain could wash away all the blood. A blue

787
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 4: tarp is used to cover the knife in an effort

788
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 4: to preserve the evidence, and because it was so windy,

789
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 4: the officer uses a nearby backpack to weigh down the tarp.

790
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 4: He doesn't realize at the time the backpack belongs to

791
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 4: suspect Carmelo Anthony.

792
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 2: Photo. No, juries don't want just a photo, they want DNA,

793
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 2: do yoxuriy boat and nucleic acid. Straight out to renowned

794
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: medical examiner, doctor Kendall Crowns, joining us from this jurisdiction

795
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: of Texas dodger Kendall Crowns. The murder what we believe

796
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 2: to be the murder weapon, a knife covered in blood

797
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: had been thrown or obscured, let me just say euphemistically,

798
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 2: and it was pouring rain. What's the likelihood that we

799
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 2: can get DNA off that knife? Because the state needs

800
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 2: the suspects DNA and the victims DNA off that knife.

801
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 14: Well, it should probably still be able to get DNA

802
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 14: from it unless it was scrub clean with a cleanser

803
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 14: or a soap of something of that nature. There's probably

804
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 14: still enough DNA on the handle and on the knife

805
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 14: itself to be able to get a good DNA sample. Also,

806
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 14: you have to figure because of the contact between the

807
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 14: two boys, there's probably a way of getting DNA from

808
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 14: the victim as well.

809
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 2: Kt Barber. Where exactly was the knife discovered?

810
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 15: It was discovered in the bleachers on the north side

811
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 15: of the stadium, which is.

812
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: Where, well, how the hey did he get in the bleachers? Ktie?

813
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 15: He ran off after the stabbing.

814
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 9: It didn't quite say a total direction, but he did

815
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 9: run off, and it's presumed that he threw the knife

816
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 9: when he ran off, because he didn't have the weapon

817
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 9: on him when he was detained.

818
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 2: Right a minute, right there, Katie Barbermi san Antonio dot

819
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: Com to doctor John Delatory. If someone attacked me, and

820
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 2: I thought, back, I wouldn't take off running and then

821
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 2: hide the weapon, thought.

822
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 17: Yeah, you wouldn't.

823
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 18: But here's the thing is that if Anthony saw a

824
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 18: bunch of other people, dozens of other people that were

825
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 18: also around and in that tent, he might have felt overwhelmed,

826
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 18: he might have felt scared.

827
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 17: He could have done all of these things just as

828
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 17: a matter of panic. So he runs off, knowing that

829
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 17: he shouldn't have stabbed this person, but he did it anyway.

830
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 17: He throws a knife away, he takes off thinking that

831
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 17: he's going to get very far. There's all kinds of

832
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 17: things that could be happening, because it does not appear

833
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 17: as though he intended to go to that track meet

834
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 17: with the specific purpose to kill Austin Metcalf. It does

835
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 17: seem like things were going on underneath that tent that

836
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 17: neither one of these two boys were prepared for, and

837
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 17: both are now suffering the consequences, with Austin having lost

838
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 17: his life for some kind of nonsense.

839
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: Lisa Herrick, you see where this is going. This state

840
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 2: is going to argue to a jury he ran off

841
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 2: and disposed of the weapon because he knew what he

842
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 2: did was wrong, and then immediately began forming a defense

843
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 2: in his mind and even asked law enforcement, Hey, could

844
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 2: that be self defense? You think that self defense?

845
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 11: There are a couple of things that cut in favor

846
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 11: of the self defense argument, and those are that he

847
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 11: did run away if he was scared, and he so

848
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 11: he's he stabs Uh.

849
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 2: Scared, isn't he? If he was touch me and find out,

850
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: isn't he the one to say, go oh, punch me,

851
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: just see what happens. That doesn't sound scared to me.

852
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 11: I don't disagree with you, but getting into his mind

853
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 11: for a moment, and the argument that the defense is

854
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 11: going to make, right, they have to come up with something.

855
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 12: In his mind.

856
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 11: So if he'll say I was scared, I stabbed him.

857
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 11: I felt like the danger was subdued enough that I

858
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 11: could now safely escape, then then I can see how

859
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 11: running away would cut in favor of self defense. I

860
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 11: can see what you're saying. How running away?

861
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 2: You just said? Have you ever heard the price words salad?

862
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 2: Because I just heard one. Okay, wait a minute, what

863
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: did you say about the threat was subdued? You mean

864
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: he stabbed Austin in the chest? Is that what you're

865
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 2: talking about? So if the threat is subdued, why run then?

866
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 11: Because there were plenty of other people around who were

867
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 11: potentially new dangers, right, people who saw him?

868
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't know what you're saying. You're making

869
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 2: that up like a good defense attorney. What other people

870
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,720
Speaker 2: presented a danger? Nobody? What is are you serious?

871
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 10: Well?

872
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: I mean, so he stabs Austin dead, and then he

873
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 2: is in danger of.

874
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 11: What retribution people who want to hurt him now that

875
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 11: Carmelo hurt their friend.

876
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, she's spinning this out, Lisa Harrick, That's why

877
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: she wins cases. She's spinning like rumpel Stiltskin. She's trying

878
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 2: to take Hay and spinning.

879
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 13: Into Gold Centennial High School's Carmelo. Anthony reaches inside his bag,

880
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 13: grabs a knife, and stabs Austin Metcalf in the chest

881
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 13: underneath the memorial's high school pop up tent, and then

882
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 13: he runs away as Metcalf's twin brother, Hunter comes to

883
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 13: his brother's aide. Witnesses point out Anthony to a nearby

884
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 13: middle school resource officer, who chases the suspect down.

885
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 7: First Off, roos for hav a second. I didn't know

886
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 7: what to do, and then us I saw him on

887
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 7: the fall over.

888
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 15: There good stuff, you.

889
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 2: Were just saying Austin's twin brother and his mother with

890
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: our friend at the Will Kine show over on Fox,

891
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 2: joining me in All Star panel making sense of the

892
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 2: fact that a stabber killed an unarmed high school track

893
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: star and has walked free. I've heard from the bond

894
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: hearing about how the stabbers family needs to quote survive

895
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 2: how they need more money in addition to the nearly

896
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: half a million dollars they have raised online. But Dave

897
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 2: mac I've heard very little about what the victim's family

898
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 2: has endured. On top of their son being murdered with

899
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: his twin brother trying to stop the flow of blood.

900
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: In addition to that, we now know there have been

901
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: attacks on the victim's family and the victim, Austin Metcalf's

902
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 2: mother's home was swatted.

903
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 12: What happened, Nancy, It's almost like a media blackout when

904
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:43,439
Speaker 12: it comes to the victim's family. At eight o'clock at night.

905
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 12: What they get a nine to one to one phone

906
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 12: call giving the address of Austin Metcalf's mother and saying

907
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 12: somebody has been shot in the mouth. And this person

908
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 12: stays on the phone for an extended period of time

909
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 12: until Swatt can get out to the residence. They surround it,

910
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 12: they build up the whole.

911
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,439
Speaker 5: Blue shield around the home.

912
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 12: They're trying to get in touch with Austin's mother, Megan,

913
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 12: and they can't get her on the phone. Well, her

914
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 12: phone isn't working right now. Swatt didn't know if she

915
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 12: had been killed. They didn't know if there were people

916
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 12: inside the house. They sent a drone inside this house

917
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 12: that has been swatted Nancy to go through every little thing,

918
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 12: and of course they didn't find anybody in there, and

919
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 12: they were able to clear the home. This is how

920
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 12: this family is mourning, going through police coming and thinking

921
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 12: they're being held against their will and being trashed.

922
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand, Dave mag you're talking about Austin Metcalf,

923
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 2: the dead boy. His family, his mother's home was swatted.

924
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 2: Someone calls police, an anonymous tipster and says a victim

925
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,439
Speaker 2: has been shot in the mouth inside the home.

926
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 5: You have that one hundred percent correct.

927
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 2: You know, maybe I'm projecting, but I recall when my

928
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 2: fiance was murdered. I couldn't even think straight. I could

929
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: barely form words. I felt like just howling like an animal.

930
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 2: And this is a mother, a mother whose son, a

931
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 2: twin has been stabbed dead, who bled out in the

932
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 2: rain at a truck meet, and someone swats her home.

933
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 2: I don't understand. Douglas Griffin joining me, senior police officer,

934
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 2: President of the Houston Police Officers Union, that's saying a lot.

935
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: Twenty nine years on the Gang Task Force, you've seen

936
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 2: it all, Douglas Griffin, how is it that the victims

937
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: family has somehow become the bad guys in this scenario.

938
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 19: I really don't understand it. There's so many questions to

939
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 19: this case that you sit there and look at it

940
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 19: and go, how did this have happened? You have an

941
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 19: individual that goes to the wrong tent, not even his

942
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 19: school with h To me, it's almost like he intended

943
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 19: to start something somewhere in there. Then on top of that,

944
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 19: where are all the coaches and the teachers and the

945
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 19: staff these track bent events, There's people everywhere, and for

946
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 19: this to end up the way it did is just

947
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 19: a tragedy and it should never have happened. And I'm

948
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 19: still unfounded by the fact that he was able to

949
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 19: get a knife into a school facility like that, and

950
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 19: why would you have it in the first place. So

951
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 19: there's a lot of questions here that we have to answer.

952
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 19: We have to look at the way the school is

953
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 19: set up, the way the tints were set up, and

954
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 19: why it was so easy for him to pull a

955
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 19: knife from a bag and stab a student like that.

956
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 2: You know, you brought up a really good point, and

957
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 2: I haven't thought this aspect through and that is why

958
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 2: Douglas Griffin, I would spend so much time with my investigator,

959
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 2: Ernest and go over and over all the facts. I

960
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 2: guess I knew it, but it's staring me straight in

961
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 2: the face. He Carmelo Anthony the stabber, the confessed stabber.

962
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: If he hadn't confessed to it. And by the way,

963
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 2: I believe it's been caught on video, which I'm getting to,

964
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 2: he's not alleged. He confessed to it, all right. He

965
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 2: walks into the tent during a track mate carrying his

966
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 2: bag with a knife in it. It's very clear. I mean,

967
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: we've all been to high school football games and track events.

968
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 2: It was lightly raining, so they have a tint. It's

969
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 2: very clear whose tent is who's there's the colors of

970
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 2: the school on the tent. There's all the teammates from

971
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 2: that school under the tent. They're all wearing their uniforms

972
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 2: from that school. It may even have the school's name

973
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: on the tent. So, Carmelo Anthony the stabber walks into

974
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: the tent with a concealed knife. Why, just as you said,

975
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 2: why would you go into the other side's tent with

976
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: a knife if you were not looking for trouble to

977
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 2: Lisa Herrick joining US veteran juvenile attorney partner at Vargie Somerset.

978
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: This is important, former juvenile prosecutor, Lisa, thank you for

979
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 2: being with us.

980
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 11: Thank you, Nancy.

981
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: That's enough time to form premeditation right there now. I

982
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: know that you defend juveniles after having been a juvenile prosecutor.

983
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 2: But the reality is, under the black and white letter

984
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: of the law, Okay, premeditation, the intent to kill, or

985
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: the intent to commit any act can be formed in

986
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 2: the blink of an eye, the twinkling of a moment,

987
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: the time it takes you to raise the gun and

988
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 2: pull the trigger. The law does not require a long

989
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 2: drawn out period for a premeditation or planning mensrea malicea forethought,

990
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 2: for instance, a long drawn out period of poisoning someone

991
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: every single day, just a tiny bit of arsenic and

992
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 2: then they die. It can be formed just like that.

993
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 2: Why do I care? Because premeditation or malissa forethought minsrea

994
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 2: is a key factor, the critical ingredient in a murder

995
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: one prosecution, isn't it.

996
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 15: Absolutely?

997
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 11: Intent is one of the main elements of a murder

998
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 11: or an assault, an aggravated assault with a deadly weapon

999
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 11: that turns into a murder. Because in Texas we have

1000
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 11: a number of different ways that murder can be committed,

1001
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 11: or the language for murder can be alleged, one of

1002
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 11: which can be that you intend for a person to die,

1003
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 11: but another can be that your actions, your intentional or

1004
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 11: knowing actions, are.

1005
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: Such that.

1006
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 11: You would know that a person would die. So stabbing

1007
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 11: someone in the heart, you would certainly know that a

1008
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 11: person would die if you stab someone in the heart,

1009
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 11: and that knowledge or that intent, like you said.

1010
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, Lisa Harriet joining me better in try

1011
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 2: a lawyer. Lisa, You're absolutely correct. And I've got a

1012
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 2: great example because when I speak to juries very often

1013
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 2: or really anybody, and I can't tell I can't state

1014
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 2: that this was my idea. I got it from someone

1015
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 2: in the New Testament. I like to give examples, Okay, stories.

1016
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 2: For instance, if I take a gun and point it

1017
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 2: right over at my executive producer right here, Jackie, and

1018
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 2: pull the trigger, and then it's say, oh, I just

1019
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 2: meant to scare her. I didn't mean to kill her.

1020
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: The law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.

1021
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 2: You don't have to say I will now kill you, bam.

1022
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 2: The law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.

1023
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 2: So when you take the time to go to your

1024
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 2: duffel bag, your athletic bag, unzip it, get out a knife,

1025
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 2: and then stab someone, and then we have the previous

1026
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 2: threat to touch me and see what's gonna happen. All

1027
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 2: of that adds together to make a premeditated murder case.

1028
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 2: Now you have not only prosecuted juvenile cases felonies, which

1029
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 2: is a whole other animal prosecuting in juvenile court GV

1030
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 2: Court versus big court. Uh, what's your defense in this case? Lisa?

1031
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 2: What would your defense possibly be? Is it true that

1032
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 2: A and your ground defense is brewing? How can that

1033
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:04,919
Speaker 2: perk light that didn't happen?

1034
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 11: A standard ground defense is hard in this fact situation

1035
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 11: because stand your ground law presumes that the victim is

1036
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 11: somewhere that they are not supposed to be. Right, you're

1037
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 11: defending your space when standard ground law applies. And certainly

1038
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 11: Austin was in a place where he was allowed to be.

1039
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 11: Now I think Carmelo probably was allowed to be where

1040
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 11: he was as well. It's a public place right. But

1041
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 11: in order to claim standard ground and in order to

1042
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 11: use that as your defense. You have to be defending

1043
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 11: your space. And so I know Carmelo is saying that

1044
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 11: Austin put hands on him. But deadly force is self

1045
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 11: defense theory that is supposed to be used deadly force

1046
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 11: meets deadly force. Self defense is not.

1047
00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 2: Lisa, again, you're absolutely correct regarding the less of the law.

1048
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: I like to use this example. You can't slap me

1049
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 2: and then I shoot you down with an oozy okay,

1050
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 2: As for instance, I can't battle back against your fly

1051
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 2: swater with a machine gun. So you said it deadly

1052
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: force equals deadly force. But here isn't it true that

1053
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 2: Austin Metcalf was unarmed, So to introduce a deadly weapon

1054
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 2: that's deadly force versus no force.

1055
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 11: Correct, And even more so self defense without a deadly weapon.

1056
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 11: Regular self defense is not a justifiable defense to use

1057
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 11: against words alone. The law says that words are not

1058
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 11: sufficient provocation to use self defense.

1059
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 2: To Katy Barber joining me, content producer at my San

1060
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 2: Antonio dot com. Was the track event still ongoing? I

1061
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 2: take it that it was, since so many guys were

1062
01:00:58,640 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 2: still under the tent.

1063
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 15: At the time of the stabbing.

1064
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 9: It was a rain delay so everybody had taken a

1065
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 9: beat and they were waiting for the rain delay to

1066
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 9: be over when the fight first began.

1067
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 2: So simply that's a yes, the event was still ongoing.

1068
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 2: What does that mean to me? That means to me

1069
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 2: that there are going to be a lot of witnesses

1070
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 2: and everybody waiting for the rain delay to end. We're

1071
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 2: all huddled under that tin. There was no way that

1072
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 2: Anthony did not know he was going in the wrong tint,

1073
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 2: no way with a knife. I just wanted to clarify

1074
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: that It's not like the track meet was over and

1075
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 2: everybody was gone and the only one sitting under there

1076
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:58,959
Speaker 2: was Austin Metcalf and that somehow he carmelo. Anthony didn't

1077
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 2: know where he was going. No, he went into the

1078
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 2: other side's tent with a knife. Okay, Dave Mack, you

1079
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 2: mentioned that Austin's mother's home was swatted with someone saying

1080
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 2: someone have been shot in the mouth in the home,

1081
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 2: so police swarm the place. What about threats on Austin's father.

1082
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 12: He has been getting threats since this first began, by

1083
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 12: text messages, by phone calls. Nancy, this grieving father had

1084
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 12: a person show up at his house banging on the

1085
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 12: door and he had to call police. He is under

1086
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 12: attack online, on everywhere you can imagine. And again, the

1087
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:55,919
Speaker 12: scariest thing I can think of is somebody you don't

1088
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 12: know showing up at your address knowing who you are,

1089
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 12: and that happened to him. I don't even know how

1090
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 12: you go to sleep at night knowing that people can

1091
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 12: find you and they're gonna they're verbally violent towards you,

1092
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 12: and you're the victim.

1093
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 2: I just don't understand how this has gotten so best Awkwards.

1094
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 2: Neither family is the bad guy. Carmelo Anthony's family not

1095
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:26,439
Speaker 2: the bad guy. The victim's family certainly not the bad guy.

1096
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 2: So how has the victim's family turned into the scapegoat here?

1097
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 2: Why is the mom's house getting swatted? Why is the

1098
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 2: dad getting threats? People showing up bamming on his door.

1099
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 2: They have put their son in the ground, they have

1100
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 2: been to his funeral. I can't even imagine anything worse

1101
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 2: than that. I want you to listen to the dad

1102
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 2: Jeff metcalf foughts.

1103
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 8: For and his brother was holding him, trying to hold

1104
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 8: the blood in, and he passed. My son watched his

1105
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 8: brother die in his arms.

1106
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 2: The father Jeff Metcal describing the moment his son Austin

1107
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 2: was stabbed dead at a high school track meet. As

1108
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 2: Carmelo Anthony adds a fleet of high price defense attorneys,

1109
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 2: all working for free, to his appellate team, we are

1110
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 2: hearing about his life behind bars, including pancakes for breakfast,

1111
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 2: chicken parmesan for lunch, chicken and rice for dinner, breakfast, burritos,

1112
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 2: port noodle casseroles for lunch, beef chili for dinner. What okay,

1113
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 2: I'd love somebody to bring me chicken palm. As Carmelo

1114
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 2: Anthony and his fleet of high priced lawyer's fight to

1115
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 2: set him free, we wait.

1116
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,120
Speaker 3: A different calling County Judge. We'll hold a hearing on

1117
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 3: August nineteenth on the motion to replace Judge Roach. The

1118
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 3: next day, the defense team will argue their motion for

1119
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 3: a new trial.

1120
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 2: Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off goodbye for him,