1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought you by Bank of America, Mary Lynch. Investing in 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: local communities, economies and a sustainable future. That's the power 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: of global connections, Mary Lynch, Pierce Fenner and Smith Incorporated 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Member s I p C. Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. 5 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: I'm Tom Keene with David Gura. Daily we bring you 6 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: insight from the best in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. 7 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: Find Bloomberg Surveillance on iTunes, SoundCloud, Bloomberg dot Com, and 8 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: of course on the Bloomberg Jeffrey Sachs is with us 9 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: Easier in celebration of building the new American economy. And 10 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: now we're gonna talk about the big the big debate 11 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: here right now, there we go, building the new American 12 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: I mean, let's go to the single best chart right now. 13 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: Jeff Sex knows this chart. This is a decline in 14 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: manufacturing in America. And this is adjusted for population. It's 15 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: a little bit of an hod chart. But all you 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: gotta know is it was grim and we've stabilized. How 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: do we get an America? Thank you Detroit guy, built 18 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,639 Speaker 1: Sex tough, I mean not some liberal man, be pamby 19 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: kind of thing. How do we get tough about this 20 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: and build a tough policy to boost trade in boost manufacturing. Tom, 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: that's a great chart, but that is not a chart 22 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: of American manufacturing. That's a chart of man manufacturing employment. Correct. 23 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: That's different because manufacturing has increased, but employment has decreased, 24 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: mainly because of productivity. And that's really important. We're down 25 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: to eight percent of employment in manufacturing right now because 26 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: we're a service economy. But what's wrong with manufacturing? Nothing 27 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: except the fact that it's robots doing it's smart technological vance. 28 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: So this is a huge plus. These were a lot 29 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: of jobs that But then with the labor debate that 30 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: we have with Brand DeLong at Burkee, Danny Roderick, and 31 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: Harvard Jeff sax at Columbia, what do you do about 32 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: the labor that's been run over? And voted for Sander 33 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: Sanders wrote the introduction to your book, or voted for 34 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: President Trump? What do you do with those people who are, 35 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: as John von rene and said, angry, angry, angry? First, 36 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: you look at where did all of that income go. 37 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: It went to the very, very very top. This is 38 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: the one thing we don't like to talk about in 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 1: this country. The stock market is booming, the wealth is booming, 40 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: and they want even more tax cuts right now. And 41 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: that's the big problem. So instead of some fairness in 42 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: our system, Trump says, we're gonna blame the foreigners, so 43 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: of course that's absurd. Or we're gonna bring the jobs 44 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: home when the jobs don't exist anymore, that's absurd. So 45 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: this is a game. It's a game to take attention 46 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: in a way from the fact that America is booming 47 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: at the top. It's never been better in history, right, 48 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: but playing devil's advocate. The problem is that in certain cases, 49 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 1: if you don't do those tax cuts, then businesses will 50 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: move elsewhere. This was one of the things that breaks 51 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: it under David Cameron or you know the UK was 52 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: talking about all the time, is that if the world 53 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: is not on a level playing field, then companies will 54 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: move to Malaysia, that move to Singapore, and then the 55 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: whole of the U S actually loses out. We need 56 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: a smarter tax system that collects more revenues, that is 57 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: more fair, and that is investment friendly. That's not so 58 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: hard to do because in smart countries there's a reliance 59 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: on more v a T collected that is then directed 60 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: towards education, towards health, towards services, towards infrastructure. We under tax, 61 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: we leave the rich with everything, and we don't therefore 62 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: invest in the future. We don't help those that are 63 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: left behind. So of course we need some tax reform, 64 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: but not just to slash taxes. This is the mindlessness 65 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: of our current situation. Alright, Jeffrey, can you point a 66 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: politician that would be able to do that correctly in 67 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: a way that it means that he or she would 68 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: actually be electable if you got actually a group of 69 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: people that really understand some basic public finance together and 70 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: I could rattle off quite quite a large list of names, 71 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: and you had a serious discussion with the lobbyists out 72 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: of the room about producing three things. Efficiency that means growth, orientation, fairness, 73 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: and adequate revenues. It's not so hard to come up 74 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: with a good strategy, but it requires getting the lobbyists, 75 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: getting the billionaires, getting the greed out of the room, 76 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: and talking about the future for all Americans, not just 77 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: a future for the handful of billionaires that that own 78 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: our Congress. We've been talking through the morning with Jeffrey 79 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: Sachs of Columbia University, building the New American economy. It 80 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: is an important book around a theme that Jeff is 81 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: known for, which is sustainability, which is more intelligent use 82 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: of resources. What's great about this book for conservatives and 83 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: for liberals is it checks in at a large one 84 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: thirty pages, so it is an intense short read on 85 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: a prescription to do something. Jeff Sex, wonderful to have 86 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: you with us. What's so unique about sex Economics is 87 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: you don't whine, you don't complain, You say, here's the 88 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: prescription to get America fixed. Is there anybody on the 89 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: conservative side listening to Jeff Sex today? We see that 90 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: several of the leading Republicans are saying we need a 91 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: carbon tax because we need to move to a new 92 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: energy system. So that's a pretty positive development. Uh. President 93 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: Trump's call for infrastructure, that's a positive development. What I've 94 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: been saying for years is to get that done, we 95 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: have to have politics in a different way. That is 96 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: a thinking poul. It takes a longer term strategy, making 97 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: even planning a dirty word in America. But we need 98 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: that because if we don't do that, we can have 99 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: all the speeches in the world, but we're not going 100 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: to get beyond our decrepit infrastructure, We're not going to 101 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: get to a new energy system. So I do see 102 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: that there is a strong middle ground. I'm not a partisan. 103 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: I was very critical of Obama's stimulus, for example, we 104 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: talked about it at the time. I said, it's all 105 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: short term. It's not going to deliver anything for the 106 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: long term, it's going to build up debt. So this 107 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: is not a partisan left, right, Kenzie and non Kenzie. 108 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: And this is saying that if you want a better America, 109 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: you have to invest in it. It's not magical thinking. 110 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: You have to invest. You can't get it by yelling 111 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: and screaming at foreigners. So you can't get it by 112 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: building walls. You can't have it by a new trade war. 113 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: The way to a better America is investment. And that 114 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: investment needs to be smart, meaning technological. It needs to 115 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: be fair meaning that everybody is benefited, and it needs 116 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: to be sustainable, not going to twentieth century energy energy. 117 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: The concern with that is that it takes a long time. Right, 118 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: if you fix America your way, it could take five 119 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: ten years and exactly right, right, So it's a timeline, 120 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: and often it's a timeline it was a timeline with 121 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: the euro that you know, the problem that now the 122 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: people are uprising, they're not happy with the way it's going, 123 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: and so you need a quick fix otherwise this will continue, 124 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: you know, forever. That's exactly right. You know, there are 125 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: no short term gimmicks to a long term, better future, 126 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: and our politicians are just their gimmicks there. Most of 127 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: them are useless, worse than useless, because they're just distractions 128 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: from what we need to do. I would call it 129 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 1: the national Marshmallow test, the famous psychological test of asking 130 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: a child you take that marshmallow now, or if you 131 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: wait a few minutes, you can have two. While our 132 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: country doesn't pass the marshmallow test right now, we are 133 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: so short term that we've been reduced to governance by 134 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: tweets by him. It's unbelievable, the failure of attention span now. 135 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: But we have institutions like the National Academy of Sciences, 136 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: the National Academy of Engineering, where if a President and 137 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: Congress said to our lead engineers, who are the world's 138 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: lead engineers, help us develop a real strategy for energy, 139 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: a real strategy for fast rail, a real strategy for 140 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: a national grid system, for power transmission, we'd actually get somewhere. 141 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: And by the way, I would remind every politician that 142 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: the Interstate Highway System, which was one of the big 143 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: infrastructure projects during my lifetime, started a n with Eisenhower 144 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: and it concluded thirty years later with Jimmy Carter's thirty 145 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: years But where that where that vision is is critical 146 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: to talk about. There's a la article, Jeff I can't 147 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: believe it's twenty four years ago Peter pass on the 148 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: New York Times on Dr Jeffrey Sex Shock Therapist, and 149 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: it was about Russia. In there, you do what you do, 150 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: which you go to a country that was a model 151 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: for Russia. In that case, it was Poland. Where's the 152 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: model for the United States of America right now? By 153 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: the way, the model for Poland that I put out 154 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: in nine gave them twenty five years of the most 155 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: robust economic growth that they had in their modern history. 156 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: When it came to Russia, Unfortunately, Mr Cheney in the 157 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: White House, in the Defense Department in said no, that 158 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: was a terrible mistake that we live with today. Moving 159 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: forward to where's where's the model today? The model today 160 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: is too understand that we don't achieve growth in the 161 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: United States because we don't invest, and we don't achieve 162 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: fairness because we don't pay attention to fairness. We let 163 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: greed rule by the powerful lobbies Wall Street, military industrial complex, 164 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 1: big oil, big healthcare. It's given us an incredibly unfair society. 165 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: So what we need is an investment lead strategy. And 166 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: the three words that I think are crucial are smart 167 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: meaning technological, Second is fair, meaning that we are aiming 168 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: for a society that has lower inequality than we have. 169 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: And third that is sustainable, meaning we don't need the 170 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: Dakota Access Pipeline and the Keystone Pipeline because those are 171 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: the energy systems of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. What 172 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: we need is offshore wind in the Northeast. We need 173 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: massive solar from the Majabi Desert. We need US Canada 174 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: cooperation on hydroelectric power from Canada's vast clean hydro resources. 175 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: And if the engineers could be given just a little say, 176 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: they could tell the American people a lot of very 177 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: interesting things about why our infrastructure is collapsing and what 178 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: we should do about it. But this is not only 179 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: a problem in the United States. This is a problem 180 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: that's sweeping across our Western democracies. We're seeing with Brexit, 181 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: we're seeing in European fears. How did we get to 182 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: this point. It can't only be a redistribution problem. No, 183 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:25,599 Speaker 1: it is a problem of our democratic institutions being undermined 184 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: by short term lobbying. And I'm glad you said our 185 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: Western societies because China has invested successfully for thirty five 186 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: years to achieve very rapid economic development, not because it's unfair, 187 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: but because it's been thinking ahead. And that's the big difference. 188 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: So the countries that succeed, even in the West, and 189 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: I will say that Scandinavian countries, for example, have done well. 190 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: They routinely have twenty or thirty years scenarios, whereas the 191 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: United States has on and now we have a president 192 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: that wants to govern by Twitter. And this is of 193 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: course the kind of absurd conclusion, illogical conclusion of this 194 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: trend towards short termism. Jeff Sex, thank you so much 195 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: for coming in. Jeffrey Sex as a Columbia University Smarts, 196 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: Fair and Sustainable the title of the really thoughtful monograph 197 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: Building the New American Economy. It is short, brief, and 198 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: intense about where we need to go. It is a 199 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: manifest as he says, not just for liberals and conservatives, 200 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: but for all wondering about American education and American business 201 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: and the incentives to make for a better America, even 202 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: for the people that listen to Bloomberg Surveillance brought you 203 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: by Bank of America. Mary Lynch dedicated to bringing our 204 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: clients insights and solutions to meet the challenges of a 205 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: transforming world. That's the power of global connections, Marylynch, Pierce 206 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: Federin Smith Incorporated Member s I p C. Let me 207 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: get in one quick question here with Sir Martin Francine. 208 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: I want you to get over here with Sir Martin 209 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: Soil and talk about Brexit and all the other important questions. 210 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: Sir Martin, I just saw you on your phone. You're 211 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: bidding for Tom Brady's jersey. Are you really are used? Yeah, 212 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: the one that was stolen. You and David Rubinstein are 213 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: like bidding each other to buy this to put in 214 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: the library Congress. David Rubinstein bids for everything America. Help 215 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: me here with the Super Bowl the ads? Are those 216 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: ads still effective? I mean does traditional TV Bowl ads? 217 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: Do they still work? With sort of the death of 218 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: television exaggerated. We have been guests that strongly agree with you. Yeah. 219 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: I mean if you look at it on a worldwide basis, 220 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: you look at our end group and forecasts around the 221 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: world for television as a proportion of total spending, it 222 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: still remains pretty constant around the level worldwide. Obviously, Internet 223 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: continues to grow more rapidly and making incursions. If I 224 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: look at our where we distribute with our clients, are 225 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: seventy five billion dollars of media spend each year. The 226 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: lead investment now is is Google and around five billion dollars. 227 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: Second largest is in the Murdoch Empire, which is the 228 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: the only really truly global media investment around two and 229 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: a quarter a billion, and the third one would be 230 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: Facebook at about one point seven billion. So on Facebook 231 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: grew last year from one to one point seven, Google 232 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: group from about four to five. So what you see 233 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: is obviously Internet investment, Digital investment growing and continue to 234 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: grow rapidly increasing their market share. But linear TV, classical 235 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: network television is certainly there is some pressure. But the 236 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: over the top opportunities and you mentioned Super Bowl, I 237 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: mean we're involved in expanding the overtop television what it's 238 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: called game Pass for the NFL around the world, and 239 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: it's particularly interesting opportunities around the world for for franchises 240 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: such as the NFL in over the top formula Formula 241 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: one is another example of that. I'm an American. I 242 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: don't know what Formula one is. A planet intelligent NASCA. 243 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: Sir Martin always has a way of words, Martin, Look 244 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: talk to me, you know, let's have fun. Do you 245 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: think that Donald Trump, the President Trump, will actually bring 246 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: back mad Men back? In which in which way of 247 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: Francine going back to like six years? Is this the 248 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: kind of are we going back to the glory days 249 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: of America where manufacturing is back and advertising and people 250 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: have whiskeys at admit, I don't think advertising is ailing. 251 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: I mean, if I take out advertising, I don't think 252 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: he's ailing now, which is just a different type of 253 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: creativity has changed markedly from the days of Don Draper. 254 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: Don Draper wouldn't recognize of what WPP does outside let's 255 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: call it traditional creative, but the definition of creator and 256 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: data data analysts can be created. Even financial directors can 257 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: be creative, sometimes too creative, but it's it's a it's 258 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: a questioned the definition of what the creative product is, 259 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: and data and insight are increasingly The difference between now 260 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: and the sixty years ago that you mentioned is that 261 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: we're now starting by analyzing data to try and to 262 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: try and learn keep key insights that we then developed 263 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: media plans for and then creative from those media plans. 264 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: President Trump be good for business, I think in the 265 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: US yes, certainly in the short term. I can't talk 266 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: to the long term, but in the short term, medium tone, 267 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: let's say the next two to three years prior to 268 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: the next election, that there's a sort of it seems 269 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: to be if if he gets his way on infrastructure 270 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: investments or what he said, if he reduces taxes, if 271 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: he brings back repatriates profits, that's going to be stimulative 272 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: in the U. S economy. It'll create in my view 273 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: as sort of Kenzie, and will be back to where 274 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: we were not sixty years ago, but a few years 275 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: ago when we had boom and bust or the boot 276 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: the threat of bust, and so we'll probably get a 277 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: bit more inflation of the inflationary lead boom maybe going 278 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: into the next election. Internationally, Francene I don't know. I mean, 279 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: what you gain on the swings in the UK, you 280 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: may lose on the international very quickly. On the times 281 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: A short visit today, sir Martin, what's your counsel to 282 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: brand building for Jeff Bezos? He's firing on all cylinders. 283 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: Amazon is beginning to brand, but how do they get 284 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: to that next level? What is your counsel for brand Amazon? Well, 285 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: I just try and answer the question tom in a 286 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 1: in a in a different way. Um. If you if 287 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: you ask my favorite question was you know what keeps 288 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: you work at night or when you wake up in 289 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: the morning. What whereas you If you ask clients that 290 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: people that media owners that the answer that is sort 291 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: of almost always there is Amazon. So the Amazon brand 292 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: become extremely threatening actually in many senses, in many places 293 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: and people are sitting I mean Jeff Bezos controls Amazon. 294 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: He's not controlled by quarterly earnings, by the focus on 295 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: the short term. He can make the long term bets. 296 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: And if you look at things like the cloud, you 297 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: know has a dominant position in the cloud, or growingly 298 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: dominant position. Ironically, his competitors have to buy capacity from him. 299 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: So if you look at the areas which if you 300 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: look at content. If you look at proportion of sales 301 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: of various products, you know, you look at diapers for 302 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: the diaper category, of which I'm particularly interested in at 303 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: the moment. If you look at that example, increasing dominance 304 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: in those categories, so the Amazon brand. Actually, I'm not 305 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: sure he has to do too much talking very stronger. 306 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: The next time you come back, I want to talk 307 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: to you about something you certain Davos about expense management 308 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: and expense reduction is being the proval of corporate America. 309 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: Really want to come back, Sir Martin sore with is 310 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: too short today. Francine l Kuen, London. I'm Tom Keane 311 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: in New York. This is Bloomberg. I picked up the 312 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: book and I was like, yeah, yeah, okay, great, great 313 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: the Third Wave and Entrepreneur's Vision. And then I opened 314 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: it and it was absolutely brilliant. Steve Case uh just 315 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: did one of the great unexpected triumphs of euros ago 316 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: uh in the Third Wave. It is a hugely thought 317 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 1: provoking pre Trump book. He joins us from an embattled Washington. 318 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: They've flown in Steve Case to uh explain to the 319 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,719 Speaker 1: President how to efficiently tweet. I guess is is the thing. 320 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: Steve wonderful to speak to you. You basically you you 321 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: essentially invented with a good a group of people at 322 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: a o l are new method of communication. What do 323 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: you think of the president tweeting policy and tweeting the 324 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: discourse forward? Did you do you regret that you invented this? Now, 325 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: obviously the internet has had a profound impact. We started 326 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: a well here in the DC area now thirty two 327 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: years ago, only three percent of people online. They're only 328 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: online one hour a week. So we said we want 329 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: to get America online, get the world online. Obviously that's happened. 330 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of benefits. Uh. At 331 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: the same time, maybe maybe you know, sometimes people, some 332 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: of us spend too much time online. Maybe now to 333 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: maybe we spend too much time on email, for example. 334 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe the president shouldn't be getting up in the 335 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: morning and tweeting. I think I'm a little surprised by that. 336 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: But at the same time, he clearly part of the 337 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: reason he is the president. He recognized the internet and 338 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: social media was a way to reach a lot of 339 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: people directly, and he did that quite creatively. But he 340 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: was using Twitter and and other other kinds of things 341 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: so it's not a complete shock that he's still doing it. 342 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: But I think in general, some of these policy issues 343 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: are kind of complicated, their their nuanced. Some of the 344 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: global issues are obviously very there's some subtleties to it, 345 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: and probably the diplomacy should happen more face to face 346 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: or by found not by hundred character tweets. Chapter eleven 347 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: in your book, America Disrupted. And what people don't know 348 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: is there's a flyover zone. We all get that East coast, 349 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: West coast, and you're associated with Washington and Silicon vailing 350 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: all that you grew up in the ultimate flyover zone, 351 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: which is Hawaii. When you grew up like totally fly 352 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: fly over. How do we get whether it's Hawaii or Oklahoma, 353 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: how do we get the rest of America re engaged 354 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: in our technological economy. Well that's a big issue. And 355 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: thank you, by the way for the kind comments about 356 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: the book. Coincidentally, just yesterday I finalized the revision story 357 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: of the paperback version coming out in April. Added a 358 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: new chapter including some of the lessons learned from the 359 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: from the Trump election victory and some of the you 360 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: know the thing, the feedback I got on the book. 361 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: We kind of expanded different chapters, added some some new things. 362 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: So it's interesting to get your views when it comes 363 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: out in in in mid April. But one of the 364 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: key themes of the book, as you mentioned, what we 365 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: call the rise of rest. How do we make sure 366 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: everybody everywhere has a shot at the American dream. Part 367 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: of the Trump victory was that he tapped into a 368 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: feeling from a lot of people in the middle of 369 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: the country that they felt left behind by by digitization, 370 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: They felt left behind by globalization, and they were frustrated 371 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: and they were seeing you know, innovations and places like 372 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley benefit a few but not benefit them, and 373 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: they got mad and so they were lashing out. That 374 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: was part of what drove the you know, the Trump 375 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: you know victory. I think we need to be listening 376 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: to that, and Silicon Valley used to be listening to that. That. 377 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: The the data here is is sort of sobering. Uh. 378 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: Last year, if you added up all the states that 379 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: that President Trump wanting goes thirty three states and aggregant 380 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: all those states last year got just fifteen percent one 381 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: five percent of venture capital. California Loane got fifty five 382 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: zero percent So California Loane got three times more venture 383 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: capital last year than more than thirty states in the 384 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: middle of the country. And that's important because startups create 385 00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: the jobs. It's not the small business is not the 386 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: big businesses. That's the young, high growth startups that create 387 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: the jobs both directly for their companies and more broadly 388 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: in the communities in terms of the other jobs would 389 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: be construction workers or restaurants would have you that that 390 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: helped service those those uh, those communities. So we're only 391 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: investing in startups in a few places like California and 392 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: New York at Massachusetts, and not in places like Ohio 393 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: or Michigan and Pennsylvania or Illinois other places. We shouldn't 394 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: be surprised that you're seeing the downside of technological innovation 395 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,479 Speaker 1: and job destruction, but you're not seeing that offset at 396 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: least in part my job creation from startups in those cities. 397 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: So we have to figure out how to get more capital, 398 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: two more entrepreneurs, and more places. So everybody really does 399 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: feel like they have a real shot, and you know, 400 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: clearing a shot at these American people listen. Even if 401 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: people listen, how do you address it? Do we stop 402 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: innovation do you start artificial intelligence? And you know, when 403 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: you look at the way that robots will take over 404 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: our lives more and more, it will displace people. And 405 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: you can't retrain a workforce in the time that it 406 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: takes for robots to take our jobs. Well, I'd say 407 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: yes and no. It's worth remembering that two hundred years ago, 408 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: over ninety percent of us worked on farms. Now it's 409 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: less than two are not unemployed. They did get new 410 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: skills because we created new industries. We created the industrial revolution, 411 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: we created the technology revolution. We need to make sure 412 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: this country creates the next revolution that can create some 413 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: of the jobs that will offset some of the jobs 414 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: that will We had many things in between, but we 415 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: we we emerge from essentially, you know, I remind people, 416 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: particularly here in Washington, d C. The two or fifty 417 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: years ago americ itself was just a startup. It was 418 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: just an idea, pretty fragile idea. Now it's the lead 419 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: of the free world because it has the leading economy. 420 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: And that wasn't an accident. Was the innovators, the entrepreneurs, 421 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: first in that agricultural revolution, then in the industrial revolution, 422 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: and more recently obviously this technology revolution that led the way, 423 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: and we went from being this tiny, little, fragile startup 424 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: nation to having the leading economy and being the leader 425 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: of the world. So how do we keep doing that, 426 00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: and how do we do that in a way that's 427 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: more inclusive. That means we have to be backing more 428 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs and more places and figure out how to get 429 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: the capital not just to the entrepreneurs in San Francisco 430 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: and New York City in Boston, but also the entrepreneurs 431 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: in Chicago and St. Louis and Madison and Detroit and 432 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: Des Moines and New Orleans. The entrepreneurs there are building 433 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: great companies, but they struggle to raise the capital because 434 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: most of the venture capital is just focusing on the coast. 435 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: That has to change. And hopefully one of the side 436 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: benefits of the election of Donald Trump is that will 437 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: be a wake up call. Right But Steve, I mean again, 438 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: how much evidence is there that there's a lot of 439 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: people and entrepreneurs hungry for that. We hear that from 440 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: fun Banks, right, but hear me out. We hear it 441 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: from banks all the time that banks. HEO says, right, well, 442 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: they say you need to lend, you need to lend, 443 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: But actually they don't know who to lend to, right, 444 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: So so it can't be only a problem that there's 445 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: not enough money in venture capitalism going into some of 446 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: these places. No, it is a problem. I I the 447 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: last three years I've I've traveled by bus through the 448 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: United States, visited twenty six cities, six thousand miles. And 449 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: they're in and that thousands of entreprenur and they're great entrepreneurs, 450 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 1: building great companies, and all the cities I visited. Just 451 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: last week, we at my firm Revolution announced an investment 452 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: in a company in Chicago called Uptake. This company didn't 453 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: exist three years ago, now a seven hundred employees, growing 454 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: like crazy. They have fifty five data scientists. They're doing 455 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: some interesting partnerships with big companies like Caterpillar and others 456 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: to try to figure out ways to use kind of 457 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: precise analytics to be predictive of what's going to happen 458 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: in some of these these industries. That's in Chicago. Most 459 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: people think that kind of company with with with you 460 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: know that that many engineers and data scientists could only 461 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: be in Silicon Valley, only could be in Boston. No, 462 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: it's in Chicago. And similarly, there's a company Indianapolis called 463 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: Exact Target that Salesforce bought a couple of years ago 464 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: for three billion dollars under Armours is in Baltimore. They're 465 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: worth something like twenty billion dollars. So there are great 466 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: companies all across the country, but the focus of the 467 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: media and certainly the focus of the investors is only 468 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: on the coast, and that has to change. Jeff m 469 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: L did a blurb for your book, and again, folks, 470 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: it's a wonderful the third wave. Jeff Emilt is reindustrializing 471 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: an industrial icon. Arguably, folks. Mr mL was my CEO 472 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: of the Year two years ago. I'm sorry, Steve, you 473 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: were in it. Uh. And what Jeff's doing to me 474 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: is almost a metaphor of what would the entire country 475 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: has to do. How do we take g E. Jeff 476 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: Imilt creative disruption down to a midsized or small sized 477 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: mom and pop company. Well, I think Jeff is doing 478 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: a great job turning around one of America's greatest companies. 479 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: But it's a big company. It's not like an aircraft carrier. 480 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: It's hard, hard to turn around and work with together 481 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: on a number of things. Actually, at the South By 482 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: Southwest conference in a couple of months, I'm gonna be 483 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: doing a panel with Beth Comstock, the vice chair of 484 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: there has done a lot of things around UH innovation. 485 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: So I think GE is a good example, and I 486 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: talked about it, as you mentioned in in the book 487 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: The Third Wave, that there are comedy companies, even if 488 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 1: though they're they're got scale, that aren't just trying to 489 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: play defense and trying to play offense. They're trying to 490 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,479 Speaker 1: lean in the future, and they're trying to figure out 491 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: ways to partner with lots of people outside of their companies, 492 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: including as you say, some small I've joined Jeff. Last year, 493 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: they hosted a conference in Columbus, Ohio, brought together some 494 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: of the you know the I did throwing midsize company. 495 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: I did that. Did you did you see the number 496 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: of bars as you went down to the conference center 497 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: at the business school? Did you see the number of 498 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 1: bars Ohio State has. Yeah, they seem to have. They're 499 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: pretty get a bunch of things, and they're good at football. 500 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: They also seemed to make there there's beer for all. 501 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: So it was, but it was it shows that the 502 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: leadership Jeff and g e worth playing trying to support 503 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: companies mostly in the Middle Country that we're rapping. Steve. 504 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: We gotta we run out of time. We'll talk about 505 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: Ohio State Bars next time, Steve Case. The book is 506 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: the Third Wave, an entrepreneur's vision of the future. Look 507 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: for the new edition soon. Thanks for listening to the 508 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on iTunes, SoundCloud, 509 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: or whichever cast platform you prefer. I'm out on Twitter 510 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: at Tom Keene. David Gura is at David Gura. Before 511 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio, 512 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: brought you by Bank of America Mary Lynch. Dedicated to 513 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: bringing our clients insights and solutions to meet the challenges 514 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: of a transforming world. That's the power of global connections. 515 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: Mary Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith Incorporated Member s I 516 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: p C.