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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. I

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Speaker 1: say this every time. I'm so excited for today's episode,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps the most excited I've ever been because today

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Speaker 1: we have a very very special, honored guest. Would you

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Speaker 1: like to introduce yourself? Yes, Hello, everybody. I am chidera Egaru.

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Speaker 1: I'm popularly known online as the slum Flower. You may

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Speaker 1: know me as the author of What a Time to

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Speaker 1: Be Alone, or you might even remember me as the

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Speaker 1: creator of the viral movement hashtag saggy boobs Matter. If

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Speaker 1: you are even you are here, you might have discovered

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Speaker 1: me from my podcast, The slum Flower Hour. And I'm

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Speaker 1: super grateful and excited and pumped to be on Jemma's

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Speaker 1: podcast because we have so much to dive into and discuss.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is just a perfect collision of worlds.

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Speaker 1: I could not agree more, couldn't agree more. This is

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Speaker 1: the collab that needed to happen and I would like.

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Speaker 1: Jadera is a legend. I have known about her since

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Speaker 1: I was seventeen, eighteen years old. It's a full circle moment. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I'm star struck. Like we've obviously spoken before, but I'm

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Speaker 1: star struck that you were willing to come on. I

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Speaker 1: also think a huge shout out to her podcast, which

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Speaker 1: she started at the end of last year. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about it a little bit more, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: during the course of this episode. But if you are

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Speaker 1: not listening to it already, I don't know what you're doing,

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Speaker 1: because it's just it's like the Bible. It's like an

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Speaker 1: audiobook of the Bible, but even better. Do we want

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Speaker 1: to describe how we met? I feel like that would

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Speaker 1: be interesting. Oh, Like, first of all, we have to

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Speaker 1: give a very important shout out to ev who, essentially

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Speaker 1: I feel like she brought us together. I feel like

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Speaker 1: she was in both of our ears, being like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you both need to be on each other's podcast, you

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Speaker 1: both need to speak, you both need to meet, and

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Speaker 1: we had we ended meet and Gemma ended up jumping

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Speaker 1: on a zoom together. It was supposed to be just

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Speaker 1: like a super brief call to just familiarize ourselves of

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Speaker 1: each other and gloss through topics we might want to

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Speaker 1: dive into. And before you know it, we were on.

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Speaker 1: We actually, you know, Zoom's got this thing now where

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Speaker 1: fourteen minutes in it will give you like a countdown.

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Speaker 1: We literally waited for the countdown forteen minutes in and

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Speaker 1: then we started to hold another Zoom again. I think

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Speaker 1: we were on for like two hours or something. Literally, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was one am in Sydney when I finished the call,

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Speaker 1: and I was like I could have gone for longer.

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Speaker 1: And we talked about like it wasn't like surface level information.

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Speaker 1: It was like we went straight to about childhood trauma.

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Speaker 1: We talked about astrology, science, we dived into our dynamics

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Speaker 1: and our relationships with men, and then we decided that

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Speaker 1: we were going to be best friends. So yeah, welcome.

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Speaker 1: And that's what were life sees affects. That's the Pisces effects.

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Speaker 1: Gemos are Pisces. So when you're around people who are Pisces,

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Speaker 1: energy like you just feel like you can live it up.

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Speaker 1: And that's what happened. So I'm very happy to be

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Speaker 1: here and I'm really looking forward to our conversation. And

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Speaker 1: I know We're going to touch on so many things

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Speaker 1: that will relate to the listeners, who I'm so grateful for. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, And the thing that we really want

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Speaker 1: to talk about today. It's kind of a nuanced topic,

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Speaker 1: but something that I think to Dara that you do

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Speaker 1: really well is talk about how we can almost relearn

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Speaker 1: how we have relationships with men, and how we can

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Speaker 1: address the internalized misogyny and the patriarchy that kind of

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Speaker 1: flows through all of us, especially who identify as women,

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Speaker 1: that impacts our relationship with men, that impacts our dating lives.

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Speaker 1: And I think as we're both women in our twenties,

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Speaker 1: and it's so relevant to understand where exactly our dynamics

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Speaker 1: and how we approach relationships come from and to relearn

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Speaker 1: some of those things that we've learned early in childhood.

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Speaker 1: Like I know that you speak quite a bit about

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Speaker 1: all you have spoken to me about about your parental

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Speaker 1: relationships and how attachment styles really do define how we

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Speaker 1: approach dating. Do you want to talk a bit about

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Speaker 1: this more because I feel like you had such an

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Speaker 1: interesting perspective the other day. Yes, So, when me and

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Speaker 1: Gamma spoke on our zoom turned adoption of each other. Oh,

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Speaker 1: we were discussing attachment styles, but I actually took it

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Speaker 1: a step much further back and actually started talking about

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Speaker 1: my relationship with my parents, specifically my relationship with my mom.

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Speaker 1: So I'm pretty much towards the end of my twenties.

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Speaker 1: I'm twenty eight years old, and I haven't been speaking

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Speaker 1: to my mother since twenty eighteen, so over five years.

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Speaker 1: And it's a decision that I came to on my

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Speaker 1: own because I just knew that it was abusive, especially emotionally,

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Speaker 1: and it continues to be that way even though I've

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Speaker 1: cut off all contact. And anybody who has had to

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Speaker 1: unfortunately separate themselves from any kind of abusive relationship or situation,

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Speaker 1: especially when the person presents a lot of narcissistic tendencies,

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Speaker 1: knows that as long as that person is still on

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Speaker 1: this planet, they will still find ways to try and

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Speaker 1: reach you and assert their dominion over you. And so,

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Speaker 1: being a young person making the choice to separate from

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Speaker 1: my mother really actually unknowingly informed the way that I

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Speaker 1: approach men. And you would think, well, how can there

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Speaker 1: be any kind of comparison or connection between dating men

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Speaker 1: and a mother, And you'll find that the way you

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Speaker 1: were nurtured, the way that you were taught to receive love,

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Speaker 1: the way that you were treated when you advocated for

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Speaker 1: yourself does set the tone for not just what you

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Speaker 1: accept in relationships with men, but what you anticipate, Because

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Speaker 1: if you experienced a lack of care and a lack

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Speaker 1: of concern for your emotions from a primary care giver

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Speaker 1: like a mother, then when you go on to date

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Speaker 1: men and you're still moving through the world with that lack,

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Speaker 1: it often means that when you are seeking romantic partners,

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Speaker 1: you usually go for what's familiar, and oftentimes what's familiar

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to feel good for us to feel comfortable.

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Speaker 1: And that was what was happening to me throughout my

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Speaker 1: twenties before I'd realized what's going on, where I would

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Speaker 1: end up with men who would make me feel like

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Speaker 1: I have to earn their validation. I'd find myself in

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Speaker 1: situations with men where I would feel quite coerced into

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Speaker 1: doing things with them, and I would even encounter conversations

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Speaker 1: with men where it felt like I was basically begging

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Speaker 1: them for love and proving why I deserve it. And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't until my mid twenties that I started to

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Speaker 1: make the link when I noticed that since I had

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Speaker 1: removed the contact I had with my primary care giver,

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Speaker 1: I noticed that, Okay, I've done the scariest thing being

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Speaker 1: walking away from my own parent and never speaking to

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Speaker 1: them again. Now it feels way less scary to walk

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Speaker 1: away from men who aren't good for me, because there

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Speaker 1: isn't that fear of Oh but what if I don't

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Speaker 1: experience the connection that I need anymore? Because I've already

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Speaker 1: removed myself from what the world would consider the most

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Speaker 1: important connection in my life, and I didn't die from it.

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Speaker 1: I'm able to tell this story now with ease because

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Speaker 1: I've already lived through the decision. But the decision itself

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Speaker 1: to make it is not easy at all. But I

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Speaker 1: would say that if you are somebody that in any

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Speaker 1: way resonates with the story I've just shared, it's worth

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Speaker 1: really observed the kind of relationship you have with your parents,

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Speaker 1: And if you do have a parent or a caregiver

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Speaker 1: that was abusive towards you at some point in your life,

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Speaker 1: it's really worth your time to look deeper into that

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Speaker 1: and ask yourself, how has this enabled the way that

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Speaker 1: I now allow things to just land in my life

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Speaker 1: and not question any of it. How do I operate

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Speaker 1: when I'm around men who present certain similarities that fire

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Speaker 1: up this instinct in me to prove that I'm worthy

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Speaker 1: of love? And what can I do to start practicing

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Speaker 1: that risky feeling of walking away from men who aren't

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Speaker 1: good for me? Because ironically, once you've separated from the

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Speaker 1: main source of pain in your life, if that main

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Speaker 1: source of pain comes from a parent, everything else becomes

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Speaker 1: easier to walk away from. And that's what I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are struggling with because they haven't

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Speaker 1: eliminated the main source of that deep pain, that deep trauma,

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Speaker 1: that deep trigger. They're still getting retriggered by people who

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Speaker 1: don't even hold half the important that the primary care

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Speaker 1: gave about that initially initially created those triggers even holding

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Speaker 1: their life, Oh my gosh. And that's I think you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right. It completely is explained in many ways by psychology,

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Speaker 1: and I think just to say so much credit to

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Speaker 1: you for making that decision. Because we look to our parents,

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Speaker 1: especially in early childhood and in our early development, for everything.

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Speaker 1: They are our source of life. And that explains why

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Speaker 1: when we decide that we need to make that break

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Speaker 1: from them. If that's something that you need to do,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be so painful. That's the primary pain, right,

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Speaker 1: That's the first round, and then the second round comes

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Speaker 1: from having to unlearn what they've taught you implicitly and

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Speaker 1: subconsciously about what you deserve. And there's a quote I

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Speaker 1: always think of whenever I think about these things, whenever

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Speaker 1: I speak to people like yourself or do research on this,

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Speaker 1: and it's that what we seek our adult relationships is

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Speaker 1: what we didn't have as children. And it goes beyond

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Speaker 1: that in that the relationships we have with our romantic partners, men, women, whoever,

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Speaker 1: will replicate those early parental relationships we have because that

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Speaker 1: is the model. That is the model for how we

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Speaker 1: love ourselves, that is the model for how we let

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Speaker 1: others treat ourselves. And the influence on our adult relationships

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Speaker 1: is just it cannot be forgotten and I don't think

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Speaker 1: it can be downgraded at all. And exactly what you said, right,

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Speaker 1: it's you find that when you are able to detach

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Speaker 1: from that primary caregiver, it becomes a lot easier to

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Speaker 1: stand up for yourself and other relationships because you have

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Speaker 1: already made that decision you have already, it couldn't hurt

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Speaker 1: you anymore. Your primary relationship with your caregiver or whoever

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Speaker 1: it may be, your guardian is one of the most fundamental.

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Speaker 1: Everything else is in some ways secondary. I do have

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Speaker 1: a question, though, because there's probably people listening to this

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Speaker 1: who can really identify with you and be like, I

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Speaker 1: actually need to do that. That's my relationship with my

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Speaker 1: mother or my father or my guardian is really similar.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any tips, like how did you go

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Speaker 1: about that, and what did you find with some of

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Speaker 1: those key lessons that you learned along the way. So

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Speaker 1: I would say for anybody who might be listening and

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Speaker 1: resonating and thinking, wow, this sounds like me, I think

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Speaker 1: I've tolerated abuse from someone who was supposed to protect

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Speaker 1: me and nurture me and love me. Well, when I

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Speaker 1: was in the initial stage of first of all believing

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Speaker 1: myself and believing that yes, this is abuse, I didn't

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Speaker 1: go down the route of confronting the person and being like,

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Speaker 1: I've figured out what you're up to. I know you're

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Speaker 1: trying to break me. Instead, I chose to give myself

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Speaker 1: all the time I needed to mentally detach before I

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Speaker 1: ended up eventually physically moving out. The mental attachment process

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Speaker 1: was the longest and hardest, and I would say that

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Speaker 1: process never entirely really ends. But how I approached that

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Speaker 1: process was I started to really tie. This is what

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Speaker 1: I'm grateful for with YouTube. There are so many people

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Speaker 1: on there who share their own personal accounts about living

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Speaker 1: with a narcissistic parent, living with a controlling parent, living

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Speaker 1: with an abuser. And when I would watch those people's videos,

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Speaker 1: I would notice so many similarities in what I was experiencing,

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Speaker 1: and then I started to believe, Oh, this is real

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Speaker 1: and this is not an isolated experience. Okay, now the

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Speaker 1: next step has to be really getting to the nucleus

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Speaker 1: of this, like why would somebody behave like this? Because

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Speaker 1: now that I know that it's not because of me,

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Speaker 1: I want to understand the background of that person, not

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Speaker 1: to justify or support their behavior, but to understand the

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Speaker 1: scale of what kind of almost monster I'm working with.

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Speaker 1: Because it feels like the person you love has been

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Speaker 1: taken over by a monster that isn't them. That was

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Speaker 1: how I used to see it as a child. I

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Speaker 1: used to just think that a monster has mounted my mom,

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Speaker 1: and that's why she hates me. Oh my gosh. Right,

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Speaker 1: And so when I would research and see that, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is a cycle of trauma. This is not entirely

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Speaker 1: to do with me. But unfortunately I am a reflection

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Speaker 1: of my caregivers, so they are going to upload their

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Speaker 1: trauma onto me. Well, now I have to start putting

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Speaker 1: myself in self protection mode because I'm an adult and

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Speaker 1: I need to see that there is a four year

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Speaker 1: old child visual of me, and I need to step

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Speaker 1: in and protect that child. So I did everything I

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Speaker 1: could to equip myself with all of the psychological knowledge

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Speaker 1: and support I would need to justify leaving because there

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Speaker 1: were so many times that I almost talked myself out

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Speaker 1: of it. And this is why people say that it

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Speaker 1: takes on average. What's the statistic. I think it takes

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Speaker 1: on average, Like, is it seven or ten attempts to

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Speaker 1: even abuser. Yeah, it's as high as like twenty sometimes,

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Speaker 1: like it can take as many times as it takes.

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Speaker 1: And it took me quite a while to get over

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Speaker 1: the emotion of feeling guilty. I think guilt is what

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Speaker 1: stops most people from leaving, because you feel like now

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Speaker 1: that you've researched and you've got all this information and

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Speaker 1: you've noticed that, oh, wow, this person is doing this

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Speaker 1: not because they are an inherently evil person, but because

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Speaker 1: there's something that's gone wrong somewhere down the line for

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Speaker 1: them and they just never made the choice to address it.

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Speaker 1: You start to feel bad for that person, and then

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Speaker 1: you start to justify and then you start to tell

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Speaker 1: yourself or they haven't really got anyone else but me,

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Speaker 1: But there's a reason why they haven't got anyone else

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Speaker 1: but you, and that's good. They've destroyed all their relationships

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Speaker 1: and you are up next. So I stopped feeling as guilty,

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Speaker 1: and I think something a lot of people are worried about.

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Speaker 1: And this is ironically why most women just tolerate really

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Speaker 1: horrible and it's because you feel like if you really

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Speaker 1: were to believe yourself and explicitly trust your observations, you

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Speaker 1: feel like you're going to stop being the nice person

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Speaker 1: that you are, because the idea of putting yourself first

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Speaker 1: and leaving somebody right in their tracks when they don't

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Speaker 1: expect it feels as evil as the abuser abusing you.

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Speaker 1: And that's a false equivalence that we create almost as

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Speaker 1: a way that as a way to kind of create

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Speaker 1: an excuse for yourself to still stay longer. But also

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Speaker 1: because it's really scary to live life on the other side,

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Speaker 1: where you've never known an existence that doesn't involve your

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Speaker 1: primary care givers abuse. It feels like it's safer to

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Speaker 1: just stay in the abuse and tell yourself that there's

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Speaker 1: ways to work around it. You can just put your

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Speaker 1: headphones in and ignore the shouting, or you can always

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Speaker 1: just keep on living a double life and it's not

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Speaker 1: worth it. I think if people were to be told

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Speaker 1: old like exactly how many days they have left on

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Speaker 1: this earth, Like if we were all walking around with

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Speaker 1: a floating number above our heads that said how many

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Speaker 1: days we have left on this earth, I think most

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Speaker 1: of us would make the decision to cut ties, because

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Speaker 1: it's like living your life on half speed, just like

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Speaker 1: having an abuser in your life who knows that they

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Speaker 1: have access to you because they gave birth to you

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Speaker 1: and because they can. And when it comes to being

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Speaker 1: a woman that dates men and feeling bad about leaving

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Speaker 1: men behind, you have nothing to feel bad about. We

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Speaker 1: as women who date men, feel guilty about even daring

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Speaker 1: to have a particular standard or having any kind of taste.

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Speaker 1: So it's like going back to my initial point of

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Speaker 1: what you learned to tolerate as a child will definitely

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Speaker 1: set the tone for what you believe you're deserving of.

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Speaker 1: And you have to quite literally go out of your

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Speaker 1: way to make the effort to break that cycle of thinking.

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Speaker 1: And it's going to feel unnatural. But just because it

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Speaker 1: feels unnatural doesn't mean that it's wrong. I think that

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Speaker 1: is so difficult, like what you said, where it's like

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Speaker 1: it like we said, it takes so many times to

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Speaker 1: leave an abusive situation. There's so many reasons behind this, right,

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Speaker 1: they hijack our brains. There is a feeling that becomes

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Speaker 1: associated with that person, and it's not just fear. It's

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Speaker 1: not just worry or being scared. There's also the other hand,

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Speaker 1: like the other side of the coin. Right, it's how

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00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,520
Speaker 1: amazing it feels to be loved by them in the

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00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 1: moments where they're not harming you, where they're not controlling you.

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Speaker 1: And something that I think is and often acknowledges how

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Speaker 1: much that is part of the abusive process. You know,

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Speaker 1: you spoke about financial abuse, emotional abuse, social abuse, cognitive abuse.

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Speaker 1: All of those things are things that are in many

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Speaker 1: ways identical to the abuse that you would experience from

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Speaker 1: a partner, but it's coming from a primary care give.

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Speaker 1: But you don't get another parent, you know, you don't

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Speaker 1: get another chance at that rental relationship, which was why

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it would have hurt so much. But on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the coin is I'm sure there

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00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,439
Speaker 1: are probably moments in which you were like, oh, but

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Speaker 1: maybe this is all right, Maybe I can deal with this.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm reliant on them for some form of security,

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Speaker 1: some form of comfort. And I think that the other

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Speaker 1: really important point that you raised there, which I think

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Speaker 1: is so pertinent to what we're talking about today, is

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Speaker 1: how it creates our attachment style. Right like the relationship

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Speaker 1: you have with your parents, the relationship you have with

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Speaker 1: your primary caregiver. It is going to directly input into

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Speaker 1: impact how you're going to attach yourselves, not just to

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Speaker 1: romantic interests, but to friends, to locations, to cities, to jobs.

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Speaker 1: Because if you've been taught that love is not freely given,

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Speaker 1: you're never going to expect that and you're never going

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Speaker 1: to welcome that because that feels like fear to you.

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Speaker 1: And like I was saying, you know, someone gives you

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Speaker 1: that attention, someone gives you that love, someone gives you

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Speaker 1: that comfort. In your previous situations with your primary caregiver,

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00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 1: you know what's coming next. There's never love without fear,

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00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 1: there's never love without hurt. And so when you grow up,

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00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 1: when you become an adult, when you start to make

335
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,040
Speaker 1: your own family or make your own decisions around who's

336
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: in your life, there will be people who are going

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00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 1: to offer you love and who are going to really

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Speaker 1: care about you. And there's always that fear, right that's

339
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 1: kind of in the back of your mind, like when's

340
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,479
Speaker 1: the other shoe going to drop? Because this is what

341
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 1: I've learned to expect. Like, did you find that I

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00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 1: know that we talked about this a little bit about

343
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 1: your attachment style, and I do think like the dialogue

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00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: around it is sometimes skewed, and you know there's people

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00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,880
Speaker 1: who are who will be like right, like I haven't

346
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 1: avoid an attachment style, and I'm like, ah, really, like

347
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 1: I feel like you just had a really bad boyfriend,

348
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 1: like a really bad first boyfriend in high school. Like

349
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 1: avoid an attachment style comes from abuse, It doesn't know, Yes,

350
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,199
Speaker 1: it's a pretty strange condition. What what did you say?

351
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 1: I remember you said you're pretty clear about your attachment style,

352
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 1: and I'd love to hear your explanation of it. So

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00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 1: for the most part, I would say that, especially while

354
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: I was still living in the abusive environment and approaching

355
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: dating as a very early twenty something, my attachment style

356
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: back then would have been anxious, preoccupied. And how that

357
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,479
Speaker 1: shows up is when someone that you are maybe dating

358
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: or fancy or are attracted to is talking to you,

359
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,240
Speaker 1: whether it's texting you or maybe you're exchanging voice notes,

360
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: and then they go quiet. You start to feel like,

361
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,719
Speaker 1: did I do something wrong? Did I say something wrong?

362
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 1: Does this person no longer like me? Am I in trouble?

363
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 1: And why I would make that what could be perceived

364
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 1: as very dramatic link, would be because as a child

365
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: I would get ignored for like hours to days on

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00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: end for making mistakes proportional to what a child is

367
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: capable of doing, and it got me eventually into the

368
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: conditioning that I deserve to be ignored and that if

369
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: somebody is ignoring me, it's because I'm a bad person

370
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: and I've done a bad thing. So, growing up into

371
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: an adult that now dates people, well, when that person

372
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,919
Speaker 1: would go quiet either because they're probably busy, or they

373
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: don't have anything to say, or maybe because they just

374
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,479
Speaker 1: want to go quiet. I would take it to a

375
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: very very far away place and start to feel like

376
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: I need to seek reassurance from that person, maybe start

377
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,479
Speaker 1: asking them did I do anything wrong? Do you still

378
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: like me? Why have you gone quiet? Other Times, I

379
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: might approach them in a more offensive manner because I

380
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 1: feel quite insecure about them going quiet on me, and

381
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 1: I want to be able to deal the rejection before

382
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: they get to make me feel rejected. And as I

383
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: started to get older, I would say, now, at twenty eight,

384
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: I think I've shifted on the anxious attachment style sliding

385
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: scale to more anxious ambivalent. And what I mean by

386
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 1: anxious ambivalent is that now when I perceive mixed signals

387
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: from a guy or hot and cold energy, I essentially

388
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: feel myself like it's like it's like a higher rock

389
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: table of the ich where I feel no more attached

390
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 1: attraction to that person. I kind of feel like my

391
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: brain just disensertimed. Oh yeah, that's like the perfect way

392
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 1: to put it. Like that, it is literally a higher

393
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: version of the ICHA, but it's like your brain compartmentalizing

394
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: and being like I don't want to get hurt for

395
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: me to do that. It's completely detached. I love how

396
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: you put that. Yeah, my brain just goes. My brain's like, well,

397
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: I mean he's probably playing a game with you. So whatever,

398
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 1: nice butterflies you were feeling last Tuesday. The butterflies are

399
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: dead now and we can go find something else to do. Like,

400
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: I find it so easy to detach from men. And

401
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: I'm not even saying it to brag and be like yeah,

402
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm sis hands up in this club. No. I mean

403
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: like I can just chalk it to the game and

404
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: be like, well, this person probably doesn't like me anymore.

405
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: So if I most times end up being wrong in

406
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: my perception of that person's silence, and they come back

407
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: and say something like, oh my god, sorry I disappeared

408
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: for a while. I was handling things with my parents,

409
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: or sorry I was away, I was busy at work.

410
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: Then it almost feels like kind of refreshing that their back.

411
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: It's like, oh you're back again, hey, friend, Like I

412
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: don't even bother with where were you? I'm not interested

413
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: in you anymore. You disappeared on me. It's like, Okay,

414
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: this person is still around. Well, let's see how it

415
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: goes like I'm in a very let's see how it

416
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: goes place in life. And you know, there are people

417
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: who are ambivalent, attached, and sort of towards the more

418
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: colder described side of the attachment spectrum, where you know,

419
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: it's mainly guys who are like that, where they just

420
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: don't even communicate anything to you. They just change their

421
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: energy without updating you, and you just feel a bit lost, like, oh,

422
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: what's going on here? I'm pretty sure this guy told

423
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: me that he wanted to fly me out somewhere, like

424
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm sure you liked me, Like I'm pretty

425
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: sure you were flirting with me, and now I've not

426
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: heard from you in two weeks. Guess what happened here? Yeah?

427
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: And the switch right, like that switch was very swift,

428
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure about that. And for me, when

429
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: guys do that, because the thing is, no matter how

430
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: hard you've worked on yourself, no matter how pretty you are, smart,

431
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: you are funny, you are academically achieved, you are that

432
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: is not going to stop a guy from acting funny

433
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: towards you, because you don't even know why a guy's

434
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: attracted to you, especially if his intentions are to get

435
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: supply from you, and what I mean by supply is

436
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: like an ego boost, or they just love the feeling

437
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: of getting your attention because at some point they perceived

438
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: you as unattainable, and now that they have your attention,

439
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: you don't even see the value in your attention because

440
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 1: you don't view yourself in that way and you don't

441
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: view other people in that way. But for a lot

442
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: of these guys who might approach you and start acting

443
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: very sort of like dismissive avoidant, where it almost feels

444
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: as though if you were to raise a concern, they

445
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: flip it back at you and you feel like a

446
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: problem for having a concern. For me, I find that

447
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: triggering because it just reminds me of again being in

448
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: that dynamic with my primary caregiver and raising a concern

449
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: and just being dismissed or being told that I'm making

450
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: a big deal or just go shut up and go

451
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: play with a toy, or something like just being dismissed.

452
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: And when men make me feel dismissed, that's an instant disqualification,

453
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: like I don't even bother with trying to salvage that

454
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: because it's not salvageable. Yeah, no second chances. Honestly, Like,

455
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: and I feel like you might be at the stage

456
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: as well where I'm like, I've learned my lessons from this.

457
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: I don't need to learn that lesson again. I don't

458
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: need to be dismissed again. Like you're twenty eight years old,

459
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: and I feel like you're on this really healthy, almost

460
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: like journey towards a secure attachment. Like that's what I'm here.

461
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: I want to believe. So that's the goal. Because the

462
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: other day I took one of those attachment there's these

463
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: like attachment style tests you can take on the internet, Dara,

464
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: don't do those online? Is it? Are they? Like? Are

465
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: they not good? No? Just talk to me, honestly, don't

466
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: do the I'm gonna tell oh my god, the online

467
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: ones are a scam. I'm telling you this right now.

468
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: But what have you got it here? First? Folks? Yeah,

469
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: it's endorsed scam, that's yeah. But what did it tell you?

470
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: What did it say you're a secure? Well? It told

471
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: me how secure? But I was like, I'm not going

472
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: to believe that because myself worked to do I don't

473
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: want to just believe that I'm secure, and they're not

474
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: do any work on myself. So I'm going to tell

475
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: myself I'm still anxious, I ambivalent, and I'm okay with

476
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: that because the ambivalence has saved me way more than

477
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: the preoccupied version of me has done. I feel like

478
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: that is that's on your way to secure, right. But

479
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: then I think it's more of a personal thing about you,

480
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: where you're like, I cannot stop working on myself because

481
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: you are so cognizant of what happened in your childhood

482
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: and because you do kind of carry this added weight,

483
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: this added emotional weight and added responsibility. Because I feel

484
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: like the thing that is the reason why you are

485
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: able to spread so much truth is because you're committed

486
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: to working on yourself and because you are able to

487
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: see that link. So I think what you're saying is like, Okay,

488
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: I can't believe that I'm secure because that means that

489
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: I have to stop working on myself. And that's not

490
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: something that I'll ever have to stop doing. That's something

491
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: that is a continual process, and I know how easy

492
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: it will be to slide back. I just oh, I

493
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: just think it's so interesting. I can't I would believe

494
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: that it tells you that you're secure, but it's interesting

495
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: that you don't believe it, that you're like, no, yeah.

496
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: The thing is because it asks me, Like when I

497
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: think about some of the questions you would ask, it

498
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: would be like, do you feel okay with not hearing

499
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: from anyone sometimes? And one time I think I tacked

500
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: yes because I'd like to be on my own for

501
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: a while, and I'm and in theory, I'm okay with

502
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: not being surrounded by attention. Or it will ask you

503
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: things like because I'm an introvert, yeah, or the prompts

504
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: would be like do you feel rejected if you don't

505
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: hear from someone you care about? Like questions like that,

506
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: and sometimes I might answer yeah. Sometimes my answer no,

507
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: So because my answers were kind of fifty fifty, it

508
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 1: kind of was like, you seem secure. The thing is right,

509
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: I feel like the reason why I reject the yeah,

510
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: the reason why I reject the computer telling me that

511
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm secure is because I still catch myself having human

512
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: moments where I'm like, this, don't feel secure, Like I

513
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: do not feel secure with this man, and I know

514
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: that it's not because I'm insecure, is because this man

515
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: has not created a secure dynamic with me. He has

516
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: not nurtured this, he has not watered this plant. So

517
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna just because I'm being told that I'm secure,

518
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: just like ignore my knee. Like just because you're secure

519
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're not going to have needs. And also

520
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: another thing that I learned is that you can be

521
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: a person that has a secure attachment style, but there's

522
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: still like an underlying secondary attachment style that's like waiting,

523
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: simmering underneath, where if you're triggered, if you're around somebody

524
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: who is very rejecting of you, who blows hot and cold,

525
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: that will activate the attachment style that you've healed from.

526
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: So in my case, if I'm around a guy who

527
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: is very very hot and cold, I'm bivalant laying it

528
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: on heavy then just disappearing. That will provoke me to

529
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: feel somewhere between like anxious, preoccupied, where I'm preoccupied about,

530
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: you know, trying to figure out what's going on here,

531
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: but also I ambivalent enough to be like I am

532
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: liking this guy less and less now. And it could

533
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: be argued that because you know, I go back and

534
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: forth with my therapist about this where I'm trying to

535
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: not be that person who is like so cynical and

536
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: closed off from love where I don't really give anything

537
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: or even give myself a chance to feel the butterflies,

538
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: feel goofy and love. And the thing is, I get it.

539
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm not in a hurry

540
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: to just like relax into a love that hasn't been

541
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: securely built, like everything from the foundations through to the windows,

542
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: the notches on the doors, everything needs to be in

543
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: place before I relax into that, because I just don't

544
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: think men are okay. And if you're someone that dates men,

545
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: you can't afford to just relax and trust into them

546
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: loving you without you having seen that this is somebody

547
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: who does their own work on their own accord, without

548
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: any external prompt from you. Once I come across a

549
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: person like that, which I've come across in my friendships

550
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: with men, I can be so relaxed and feel so

551
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: loved around men like I have such loving friendships with

552
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: the men in my life that I do know that

553
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: it's possible to find men that are working on themselves.

554
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: But just because it's possible doesn't mean that I'm going

555
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: to project that possibility onto every man that I'm attracted

556
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: to because you can be attracted to someone and you

557
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: can get on really well with them, but for some reason,

558
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: and once things get to a more serious place and

559
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: you notice that they're not giving you the energy that

560
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: you perceived that you fell in love if you have

561
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: to believe what you're perceiving, because most people go off

562
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: of the version of the man that they met two

563
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: years ago. But I'm always I'm always big on who

564
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: is he right now? That's the man you need to, yeah,

565
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: like make a decision on who is he right now,

566
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: not who he was two years ago when he was

567
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: giving you vibes and giving you hugs and making you

568
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: feel good. Who is he right now? How do you

569
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: feel right now? And I totally agree. It's actually so

570
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: interesting that you talk about almost being like I do

571
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: want to fall in love right like that is something

572
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: that I want. I want that lovely feeling once you

573
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: are able to. It's not really like a vetting system.

574
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it a vetting system, but it's almost like,

575
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: for a lack of a better word, it's like I

576
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: think it is a system because exactly because it's like

577
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: I actually I think there's something quality control quality control

578
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: are meant quality control. Men need to go through a

579
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: few rounds of that. They've got to meet the friends.

580
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: Yes literally literally, I never go to a man's place

581
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: for the first like two months that I'm seeing. But

582
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: the thing that I found is that, like I think,

583
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: at the end of last year, and tell me if

584
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: you felt this at some point in your life as well,

585
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: I had my heartbroken by someone who treated me terribly

586
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: and I went to the absolute opposite end of the

587
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: deepest steps of cynical where I was like, I am

588
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: completely determined that I can be alone for the rest

589
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: of my life and any form of love is going

590
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: to hurt me. And it was really sad because I

591
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: am someone who wants to be loved, and I know

592
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: you're someone who wants to be loved as well. It's

593
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: a human instinct to want that for ourselves, but I

594
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 1: was so like protective of myself and it was almost

595
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: like a barrier that was established out of fear to

596
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: be like, I don't want to be hurt. I don't

597
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: want someone to break down this barrier. I don't want

598
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: someone to put me through this pain again. And it

599
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: was something I had to unlearn, which was like how

600
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: can I. I don't need men, but I want them,

601
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: and I know that like partnership is a beautiful thing.

602
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: That's the important sentence. Though, Yeah, you think so I

603
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: don't want men. I don't need men, but I want them. Yeah,

604
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: because you know what, even the cynicism you're referring to,

605
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: I believe personally that anybody who has allowed their self

606
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: to go through the stages of separating from an abuser

607
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: will inevitably at some point be met with that stage

608
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: of cynicism. And I do think that's part of the

609
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: healing process, because your body and your mind, just your

610
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: whole being needs to learn and experience what it's like

611
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: to be independent and to thrive on your own. But

612
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: I think the next stage after cynicism is kind of

613
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: like still acknowledging that, you know, men might not be

614
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: the source of the love that you deserve, but it

615
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're never going to find love in

616
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: this world. And in my case, it's kind of like

617
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: that's where I learned how to lean into my community,

618
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: and that was where I learned and part of why

619
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: I feel so empowered to even have standards when it

620
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: comes to men is because of my cynicism where it's like, well,

621
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: I'm so chilled out in my cynicism and I'm open

622
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: to being surprised. This is an invitation for you to

623
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: surprise me. I'm not saying that men can't ever be great.

624
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: I'm saying accept the challenge then, like like, I'm open

625
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: to being surprised. But until that happens, I will remain

626
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: on my frequency of healthy cynicism where I'm not going

627
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: to be carried away by the fluttery feelings of a

628
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: man liking me. I do think that if you're somebody

629
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: that is very, very empathetic, hypersensitive, easily easily absorb absorbing

630
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: of other people's like pain and wounds, you do need

631
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: to have, like ayist, like a cynical kind of sheet

632
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: of film. It's like an invisible sheet of film that

633
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: you can just put on temporarily, but remember to take

634
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: it off, Like you don't have have to live your

635
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: whole life in a cynical place. But anybody who has

636
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: been around draining narcissistic people knows that when you come

637
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: across that grandiose eccentricity and a lot of men, you

638
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: do have to be a bit cynical and it's not

639
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: a bad thing. It doesn't mean that you're this person

640
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: that's like, you know, you're so negative and you can't

641
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: find joying anything anymore. It's like, no, I want to

642
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: see what this person is about. Oh yeah yeah. And

643
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: I think women deserve to be cynical in a world

644
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 1: that like spins against them, in a world where men

645
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: continue to use us, Like I think cynicism is a

646
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: much better place to land than all women being vengeful.

647
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: And I love what you said before about I honestly

648
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 1: am like waiting till we're done to go and journal this.

649
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: But like you're allowed to be surprised. I had not

650
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: thought about that, Like you're allowed to be surprised. And

651
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: I've had these conversations with friends of mine. So my friends,

652
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: my closest friends, are all in relationships with with men

653
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: that I think are amazing people who I would actually

654
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: count as friends. But I was having this conversation. We've

655
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: talked about this before, but I was having this conversation

656
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 1: with my friend and they were like, you're in your

657
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: Missentry hating era and you've got to get through it.

658
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: And I was like, and I remember being like, Okay,

659
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm kind of offended, and she said to me, she

660
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: was like, I cannot wait till the moment where I

661
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: get to meet the love of your life. And I

662
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: was like, why why can't you wait? Like obviously, like

663
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: that would be exciting, but I was like, I would

664
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: much rather be single until I was thirty five and

665
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: then find someone who really suited me. And like, this

666
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: is the thing to Dary, Like, we are pretty impressive, independent,

667
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: powerful women. We are self starters, Yes we are, and

668
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: that's facts. It is. Yeah, like we were educated where

669
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: incredibly Like we have an impact and that's an amazing privilege, right,

670
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: but it also means that when I look around at

671
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 1: people who could potentially add to that, like, there's not

672
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: much that I couldn't do for myself, and there's not

673
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: much that I couldn't provide to myself. So I feel

674
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: like when you were talking about that analogy of making

675
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: sure that all the hinges on the door right the windows,

676
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: like the secure foundation of a relationship, I would much

677
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: rather find that at thirty five and spend the next

678
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: decade or less of my life being alone, then think

679
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: that I found that. Now, you know, end up at

680
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: thirty five and realize that I was completely misguided, and

681
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: you know, my house is falling down and I've got

682
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: to rebuild. I just think it's like it's worth the way,

683
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: it's worth the sacrifice, and it's not even a sacrifice, right,

684
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: Like our relationship with ourself is the most important. I

685
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: was going to say, sometimes you can't even you can't

686
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: even rebuild a collapsed house. You end up having to

687
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: just relocate and uproot your life all over again. I

688
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: see this happened to women time and time again, where

689
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: you know, they got married to the guy that gave

690
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: them the butterflies, and then they got married and then

691
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: they realized that they were love bombed essentially, and now

692
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: they're spending five years in the divorce process, and you know,

693
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: they're now left with this what was once a house

694
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: that had you know, the door hinges were talking about

695
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: in the foundation. You realize all of it is broken

696
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: and doesn't even work. You can't there is not even

697
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: any resale value to it. Just got to abandon that

698
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: thing and just start again and move elsewhere. And what

699
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: you were saying about the joke your friend made about

700
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 1: you being in a missindury era, So for those who

701
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: are listening and might be wondering what does missindry mean.

702
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: Misinry is a term that was coined to essentially mean

703
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: hating men. But what's really interesting is that I get

704
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: called a misindrist all the time, mainly from men, surprisingly

705
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: from women too, and usually men from women. Yeah, I

706
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: get women telling me that I'm a missindrist and that

707
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: I hate men, because obviously men conflate accountability with hate,

708
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: but also because the idea that a woman would be

709
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: consistent in her disgust for men must mean that she

710
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 1: hates them, and it must mean she's a bad person,

711
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: because the missentry label is about your morality, whereas when

712
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: a man is called misogynistic, it's not because he's a

713
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: good or bad person, just because he just like has

714
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: that particular line of thinking. Like so in my case,

715
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: what I find interesting is that I'm yet to meet

716
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: someone that can just quickly, very quickly, just show me

717
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: where and how men are affected by misogyny in a

718
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: way that is material, societal, and physical. Like, nobody can

719
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: show me how men are marginalized because of misogyny, the

720
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: violence that women experience across the world at the hands

721
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: of men. It's determined by the societies that you live

722
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: in and how men enable other men to continue. So, yes,

723
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: if men want better stories told about them, one they

724
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: should behave better and two you don't really get to

725
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 1: push someone and tell them where to fall. They see

726
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: you having boundaries as violence towards them, They see you

727
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: not wanting to sleep with them as hate speech. Oh

728
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: my god, that's literally I was going to say, like,

729
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: that's exactly what that reminded me of. It's like, okay,

730
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: so I'm in my man hating error air quotes there

731
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 1: as my friend described it, And if she's listening to this,

732
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 1: I really I do love you. You just were misguided.

733
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: But like, I'm in my man hating era, right, what's

734
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: the worst that's going to happen to someone because of that?

735
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not going to have sex with you,

736
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk to you. I'm not going

737
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: to give you my attention and my love. Do you

738
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: know what it makes you realize as a man is

739
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: how much I actually give to you and what happens

740
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: to you when I take it away. That is the

741
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: worst consequence that you're going to realize. And I hope

742
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: that it's a good lesson right to realize that I'm

743
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: actually a very valuable I'm a valuable person, and you

744
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: might notice what I'm not there, but most of the

745
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: time you probably won't. And the opposite, like when you

746
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: think about the misogyny that's lodged against women, it's a

747
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: lot more tangible. It's a lot more tangible than you're

748
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: not getting to have sex with me. And most of

749
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: the rebuttals I get from people, whoever it's men or women,

750
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 1: you know, against my ideologies, trying to imply that me

751
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: not having the time of day for men is harmful

752
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 1: towards them. All these ideologies end in women are just

753
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: supposed to give men more access to our body so

754
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: that they can stop feeling bad about themselves. And that

755
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: I was telling you about that email I got the

756
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: other day from this person. I am not. I would

757
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: not say that I'm a highly controversial person, right like

758
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: yet this person and even if I was, I still

759
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 1: didn't deserve this. I think that I am sometimes cautious

760
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: about sharing a lot about my personal life. Like I

761
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: think that people who listen to me understand like the

762
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: basic narrative of the last three years of my life, right,

763
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: but they don't understand. They don't know me. They don't

764
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: know who I am. And this person sent me. This

765
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 1: guy sent me this email, and it was essentially being like,

766
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: I hate you. I think that you're the worst person

767
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: in the world. You are the reason why I, this

768
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: man I've never met, can't get a date. You're the

769
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: reason that women are so misguided in society. And I

770
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: had to It was almost eight hundred of thousand words long,

771
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: and I had to receive that email. I'm just going

772
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: to say, I have never sent anyone, like anyone something

773
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: that hateful that they had to read and they had

774
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: to remember. And I was like, I made one statement

775
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: about how I'm setting boundaries for myself and about how

776
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to date the right people in twenty twenty three,

777
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: and you equated that with me absolutely ruining your life. Well,

778
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: doesn't that tell you then that like men are the

779
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: lonely ones, men are the real ones who have got

780
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: a ticking time bomb over their heads. Anything that they've

781
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: projected onto us is actually their reality. And those projections

782
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: include the idea that as a woman, you're going to

783
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: end up on your own if you don't give in

784
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: to a man's dominion. As a woman, you're going to

785
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: be super miserable if you don't marry a man, and

786
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, you're single. I bet you're secretly learning

787
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: when actually the reality is most men can't live without

788
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: the physical touch and validation of a woman. That's why

789
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: a man from across the world has told you that

790
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: you have ruined his life by you just hypothetically expressing

791
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: that you want to date better people. And in my case,

792
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: I get actual insuls commenting on my Instagram posts saying

793
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: bring back Andrew Tate. We need more Andrew Tates in

794
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: this world, and that to me is insane. Like Andrew

795
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: Tate has just been arrested on suspicion of sex trafficking women,

796
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 1: and even outside of him being arrested on such heavy suspicions,

797
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: he's been making content for years where he has amassed

798
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: and assembled a physical community of men who have all

799
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: been taught to do the love a Boy method, which

800
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: is what Andrew Tate explains verbat him on his own website,

801
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 1: how to essentially worse a woman into sexually working for you,

802
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: which to me is deplorable. And when men see me

803
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: making content encouraging women to just like you, know that

804
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: whole thing men say where they're like, well, since since

805
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: you're having such a hard time with men, then date

806
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: better men. Well, I'm here trying to encourage women to

807
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 1: date better men. And then men are being like, actually,

808
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: we need more Andrew Tates. Actually I think you need

809
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: to die. Oh my god, I hate that they say

810
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: that to you. But like the common thing of like

811
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: not all men. And then when you're like, okay, so

812
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 1: not all men. Let's find the men that are good.

813
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: You know, like I said, you don't need, but you

814
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: might want, and they're like, you're absolutely misguided. You're absolutely wrong.

815
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: It doesn't work both ways. Like you can't have it

816
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: both ways. You can't make these generalized sweeps in the

817
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: positive and the negative that it's not all men. But

818
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: then when you talk about like wanting to teaching women

819
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: and teaching folks to date better people, they're like, well,

820
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 1: why do you need to do this? Well, isn't it

821
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: isn't it ironic that men will not all men you

822
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: to death until they have a daughter. Then they're going

823
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: to teach their daughter stay away from boys, stay away

824
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: from men. And I'm going to get a shotgun. But

825
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: I thought it was not all men, because if it's

826
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: not all men. Then how come we see that common

827
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: trope repeated time and time again, where once a man

828
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: has a daughter, the men around him are like, well,

829
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: you better get a shotgun. Why I thought it was

830
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: not all men, So it is all men? So you agree? Yeah,

831
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 1: are you a hypocrite? Or what's going on? No one's

832
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: been able to give me the answer, Like, what's the truth? Like,

833
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: they literally are not people you can take seriously with

834
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: your life, with your expenses, with your future until they

835
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: prove otherwise. None of my messaging has ever been from

836
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: the place of men are ultimately bad people, You're never

837
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: going to find happiness. Rather, it's that you have got

838
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: to make your own effort as a person to have

839
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: a quality control system in place, and that involves a

840
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: period of you being on your own for a while.

841
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: You're not going to find the best guy for you

842
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: by chance and by fluke. It's like, it involves consciously

843
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: listen and consciously watching that person's behavior to see if

844
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: their words and their actions line up. It's a conscious effort.

845
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: You can't just let it happen by chance. Yeah. Oh,

846
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. And I have another friend who I

847
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: think is an excellent example of this, and has an

848
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: amazing partner. And I think you're absolutely right, Like when

849
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: you talk about we're not making it's your messaging has

850
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: never been well. We should create a female only commune

851
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: and learn how to procreate on our own and like

852
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: eradicate man Like it's not the messaging, it's that happiness,

853
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: I think in many ways, and happiness and relationships, especially

854
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: if you're someone who dates men, has to come from

855
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: a place of agency and has to come from a

856
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: place of responsibility and an accountability to yourself of like, Okay,

857
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 1: this is actually what I want. I can settle right now,

858
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: and I can be in a relationship in which I

859
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: am deeply unhappy, my needs are unsatisfied. In some cases

860
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: it could even be oppressive or abusive. Or you can

861
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: take the time to recondition yourself and relearn what you

862
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: need to learn, because I think that's the other thing, right,

863
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: Like a lot of men are conditioned and men are indoctrinated,

864
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: but women are equally told to be very passive and

865
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: told to be nurturing and to overlook and that if

866
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: they are lonely, or if they are alone, or if

867
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: they are without a partner, that's something inherently wrong. With them,

868
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: and I don't think that's the case. I would love

869
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: to hear your perspective on how you go about that,

870
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: like how you go about setting those boundaries, how you

871
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: go about selecting someone or vetting someone who is the

872
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: right person for you. So for me, I have my

873
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: non negotiables, and my non negotiables are the type of

874
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: non negotiables that will warrant me getting the kind of

875
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: email that Jemma got where a man was sending her

876
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: eight one thousand words essentially telling her to go die.

877
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: So my non negotiables are definitely you have to have.

878
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: You have to have your finances together as a man.

879
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: Doesn't sound very nice, but that's the whole point, Like

880
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: you need to have that together because I'm not looking

881
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: for a man who needs to be taken care of

882
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: by me financially. I'm in a place where I'm taking

883
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 1: care of myself financially, so it will be nice to

884
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: be partnered with somebody who has that area of their

885
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: life sorted. That doesn't mean that that person is going

886
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: to be perfect just because their finances are sorted. I

887
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: mean we come across people all the time, and stories

888
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: in the news all the time of people who come

889
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: from wealth still experiencing depression. So part of why financial

890
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: comfort matters to me is because having money alleviates a

891
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: lot of problems, and it allows me the ease to

892
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: maneuver society and maneuver my life in a way that

893
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: grants me access to the help I need. The yes,

894
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: and I think the least a man can do is

895
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: bring ease to my life or else I'm better off

896
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: just on my own really and just having friends that

897
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: I'm generally enjoying my life with. Another non negotiable for

898
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: me is that he can't be a man that enjoys

899
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: doing that whole gotcha moment thing men like to do

900
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: where they try and argue you out of your own

901
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: ideologies when they call themselves male feminists, I gravitate towards

902
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: men who live with those values. Most of the men

903
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: who I know that actually excude feminist values don't call

904
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: themselves feminists. They don't even engage with the theory or

905
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: talk much about it. They just treat me and the

906
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: women around them in a way that shows that they

907
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: care and that this is a choice that they're making.

908
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: Another non negotiable for me is I can't be with

909
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: a guy who is controlling whether a guy has money

910
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: or not. You still need to be a really fucking

911
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: awesome person and that has to be an effort that

912
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: you have put in by yourself. And when you know

913
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: people hear me having this list of non negotiables, the

914
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,479
Speaker 1: immediate instinct is how dare you like as a woman,

915
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: how dare you decide that you are going to have

916
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: a filtration system? But the real question should be why

917
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: not As somebody who sits on the anxious ambivalent positioning

918
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: of the attachment spectrum, I have to fight the hyper

919
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: independence that I have where I'm very used to being

920
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: on my own. So actually, how I practice learning healthy

921
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: interdependence is to accept care and accept help from people

922
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: who love me. So if I say I want a

923
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: guy who has money, it is because I'm learning to

924
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: accept that I deserve help, or learning to accept that

925
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: I deserve support, or learning to accept that I am

926
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: worthy of somebody who wants to enable me to have

927
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: an easy and fun life. And it happens for people

928
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: all the time, And if it feels good, let it

929
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: feel good until it doesn't. Like I don't believe in

930
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: when things are in a nice place of a guy

931
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: constantly being like, but what if it goes wrong? But

932
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: what he does this? Rather, I'm going to let it

933
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: feel good, and if he does something that shows otherwise,

934
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: I'm also going to believe myself when I perceive that,

935
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: and I walk away knowing that, well, things are fun

936
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: until they weren't. And that's a new buddy. You know

937
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: what's interesting is that when you're talking about, like, I

938
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: want to date men with who can support himself, like

939
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: you don't have to provide reasoning for that, you know

940
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like I feel like often when I

941
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,919
Speaker 1: give my non negotiables, maybe you find the same. I'm like, oh,

942
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: but it's for these reasons. It's for these reasons that

943
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: I want this. And it's like, why can't I just

944
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: say that that's what I want? Why can't I just

945
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: make that statement? And as someone who has I'm going

946
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: to completely out myself here only ever dated men who

947
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: are not financially stable, and do not judge me. I'm

948
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: learning I'm not judging, but I know and you just

949
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 1: like so spoke to my soul there where it was like,

950
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: because I am so hyper independent that there's someone who

951
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: I can mother and I'm able to make the financial

952
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: decisions in some way. The men that I have dated

953
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: have never had jobs. Isn't that ridiculous. I taught one

954
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: of them how to drive, multiple of them how to drive,

955
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: And I think it's because I naturally seek this matriarch

956
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: or maternal role with these men. And I've to one

957
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: lean that you know, I'm actually not your mother, I'm

958
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: actually your partner. I'm your romantic interest. I remember one

959
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: time going on a trip with someone and I paid

960
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: for the entire thing, and he paid for one thing.

961
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: One thing, and it was something that we actually didn't

962
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: end up using, and he started complaining about how you know,

963
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: we didn't use that. We didn't like end up using

964
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: that thing that I think it was like a fruit.

965
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: I think it was like a freeze drive meal. We

966
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: were like camping or something like that, and he was like,

967
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: we didn't use that, Like my contribution went to waste,

968
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: and now I look at it, I was like, oh

969
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: my god, I completely changed you. Meanwhile, you paid for

970
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 1: the bulk of it. I paid for everything, and I

971
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: was like, okay, but you actually never said thank you.

972
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: And also I now realize I would rather not do that,

973
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: and I don't need to give you a reason. I

974
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: don't need to give anyone a reason. This is just

975
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 1: the standard that I'm setting for my life, the same

976
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: way that men are able to stand it, you know,

977
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: to create standards for their life, and no one ever

978
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: questions it. So I just think it's one of the

979
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: things no one's ever made a man explain. Okay, so

980
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: when you say you don't like fat women, what does

981
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: that mean? Like? Or when you say you're the head

982
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: of the household, what does that mean? And how can

983
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: you validate? Everyone just accepts it. And you see women

984
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: literally losing weight for men. You see women literally who

985
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: are career women making themselves smaller for men. You see

986
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: women who are like us, super accomplished, like you explaining

987
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: your story, dating men who are far below your level,

988
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 1: and it almost feels like you have to make up

989
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: for how far behind they are by cutting yourself into

990
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: smaller pieces. And that's still not enough. It's still not

991
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: enough for them. That's why I'm like, you're better off

992
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: on your own, living that healthy cynicism of knowing that

993
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: most men are not built to even live up to

994
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: your greatness. But the men who are built to live

995
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: up to your greatness are out there you have to

996
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 1: keep open to that. But also you need to expose

997
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: yourself to environments where you're likely to meet those kinds

998
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: of men for you to even meet the kind of

999
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: man that you envision yourself being with. Do you have

1000
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: the confidence to hold your own Do you have the

1001
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: confidence to believe that you're worthy of the camera man

1002
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: that you deep down deserve? Because if you've only been

1003
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: tolerating men you have to look after and you finally

1004
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: come across the guy who actually has the means to

1005
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: bring this experience to your life that you've been longing for. Anyway,

1006
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: so you've got enough. If men feel bold enough to

1007
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: ask you for pussy, you don't be scared to ask

1008
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: them for shit either. We're scared to ask men for staff. Meanwhile,

1009
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: they are extracting emotional labor for us from us every day,

1010
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: and we're teaching them to drive for free. Meanwhile we're

1011
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 1: scared of embarrassing. No, but it's real. There are seven.

1012
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: I've been there. I've been most of my dating history

1013
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: until I realized who I was was me picking man

1014
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:47,800
Speaker 1: that I had to look after because it's about control

1015
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,479
Speaker 1: as well. It's about feeling like, well, this guy can't

1016
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: leave me because look at what I've done for him. Well,

1017
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: jokes on you, because you can do everything for a

1018
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: man and he will still leave you. Oh yeah, and

1019
00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: you'll be beside yourself, like how I know, Oh my gosh,

1020
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: I just feel like we've peered into my brain. And

1021
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: I don't think it was oh my god, that's so painful.

1022
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a control thing, right, Like,

1023
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: I don't think I was sitting out there being like this.

1024
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: I think I think it's the thing where it's like

1025
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: exactly what you were saying, Like, people just there are

1026
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,240
Speaker 1: people who are going to meet in your life romantic

1027
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 1: interests or whoever, who are going to want to give

1028
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: you what you give to others. And I think sometimes

1029
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 1: I find it so unnatural to be like, Okay, well

1030
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: this is actually what I love doing for people. I

1031
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 1: love giving them everything, like being really generous with my finances,

1032
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: with my time, with my energy. How Come I can't

1033
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: accept that they might want to give that back? And

1034
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,479
Speaker 1: how come it's hard for me to realize that. And

1035
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: you know, you can call it personality, you can call

1036
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: it your upbringing, whatever it is. I just think it's

1037
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: something that you have to unlearn and when you do

1038
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 1: get to the point of being able to be realistic

1039
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: about you know, what you expect from others and what

1040
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: you're willing to accept from others, everything becomes a lot

1041
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: easier and you are able to establish those relationships that

1042
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,919
Speaker 1: are two sided. Right. And even what you were saying

1043
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: about being someone that it's in your nature to be

1044
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: generous and giving, I'm the same. And to anybody who's

1045
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: listening who might be thinking, so should I just like,

1046
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: stop being a generous person and stop sharing. No, just

1047
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: be more conscious of who you share that side of

1048
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 1: yourself around. That's it. That's how you have a quality

1049
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: control process. Like you don't have to stop being who

1050
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: you are. You just have to learn that some men

1051
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: only deserve the thirty day free trial version of you.

1052
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: And once that thirty day free trial has ended, they'll

1053
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: be blocked out of nowhere like you got your trial

1054
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: or you didn't do much with it, sorry, dude, Like

1055
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: gotta keep moving now your free trial has actually expired.

1056
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: These guys don't deserve These guys don't deserve that Godess,

1057
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: Mother Nature energy, like save that, please save that for

1058
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: the dude that has worked too for nell for it,

1059
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: because that energy you have can change a man's life.

1060
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 1: Dude from across the street wearing a checkered firm Will

1061
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: shirt and Vans does not deserve that. He will be fine.

1062
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: He will be fine. If you was to God forbid,

1063
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: fall down and die right now, he will find somebody

1064
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: else to provide him with the supply that he's looking for.

1065
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: I feel like this is a really good place to

1066
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: wrap up, because if you're not tired of us already,

1067
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm going to promise this to my

1068
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: listeners right now, we will be doing a part two

1069
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: because this was such an engaging conversation. Oh hell yeah,

1070
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: prepared to be sick of actual Honestly, I only just

1071
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: looked at the time then and I was like, oh

1072
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: my god, we have been speaking for an hour and

1073
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: a half about everything and anything, and I think that's

1074
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: just an amazing thing. And I hope that you have enjoyed,

1075
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: whoever's listening to this, being a fly on the wall

1076
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: for this conversation. And if you found it controversial, well

1077
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Come back for part two and we

1078
00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: can enlighten you a little bit more. I was just

1079
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: going to say on my end that I really hope

1080
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: that anybody who's listening who resonated with this and is

1081
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: maybe in a stage of realizing that they deserve better,

1082
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: do not try and take extreme steps to completely transform

1083
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: your life overnight. This is a process. Baby steps are

1084
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: still steps. Take your time, because detaching from any kind

1085
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: of abuser is literally like removing chewing gum from a

1086
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: denim jacket. You have to be really careful. It's a

1087
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: very intricate process, and be kind to yourself because there

1088
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: will be relapses, but just know that with each relapse,

1089
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: you're still progressing. So just focus on moving forward every

1090
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: day and remembering that one day it's not going to

1091
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: be like this anymore, and that's the day you just

1092
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: got to keep living for. Yeah, that's a beautiful way

1093
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: to put it. I think that's exactly spot on. You know,

1094
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: there's nothing in life that's promised other than change, and

1095
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: there will be a day that you feel a right.

1096
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: So I want to thank Jadera for her amazing insights,

1097
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: and I'm going to just say her podcast is one

1098
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: of the best I've ever listened to. It is incredible.

1099
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and it's honestly true. I listened.

1100
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: I've been listening to it on my way to work

1101
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: at work, and I just think that if you enjoyed

1102
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 1: this conversation, even if there were times where you didn't

1103
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: agree with what we were saying, just go and listen

1104
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: to it, because I just feel like it is essential

1105
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: listening for anyone, especially women who are in their twenties

1106
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: who are dealing with the same questions that we grappled today.

1107
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: To to Dara, thank you so much for coming on,

1108
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, Gemma, And to anybody who's

1109
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: curious about my podcast, The slum Flower Hour, it's essentially

1110
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: for any woman who dates men that is a little disobedient.

1111
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: Like if you're a disobedient woman who deep down you

1112
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: just you need that enabling to step into your power,

1113
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: then The slum Flower Hour is the podcast for you.

1114
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: But until then, I give you my love. Thank you

1115
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: for listening to this credible conversation with myself and Gamma,

1116
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: and I hope that this has sparked enlightening you to

1117
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: remember that you deserve to choose the life that you

1118
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: live rather than settle for it. Yeah, thank you so much,

1119
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: And just a reminder if you did, if you did

1120
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: enjoy this episode, please feel free to leave a five

1121
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening

1122
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: right now and if you want to be involved with

1123
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,919
Speaker 1: the community, if you want to follow along, see when

1124
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: merchandise is released, new episodes are released. Please follow at

1125
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: that Psychology podcast and I hope you have a lovely day.

1126
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening.