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Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime. It's a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Zaren Elizabeth n Hi.

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Speaker 3: How are you to do?

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Speaker 2: Pretty well? Do you do? Oh? To you? I'm good, well,

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Speaker 2: happy for you, thank.

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Speaker 3: You, and I'm happy for you and all your joyful

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Speaker 3: bounties and also with you. Yes, let us give thanks,

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Speaker 3: let us give thanks and praise Saren.

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Speaker 2: It is right to you, you know.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: I do the nineteen ninety four movie Clifford.

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Speaker 3: Okay, do you know this film? Is that what a

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Speaker 3: lot of people don't?

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Speaker 2: Short? Wow? Look at you? Do you agree? Now?

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Speaker 3: And then my brain works totally.

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Speaker 2: Do you know the other star in that movie, Clifford Martin?

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Speaker 2: And just think of a kind of a curmudgeingly humorous actor.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, my last name rhymes with Hoden.

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Speaker 3: Charles Groden. Yes, that was like I was. I could

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Speaker 3: see him and I was trying to remember his name.

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Speaker 2: So Martin shirt is like this annoying character in the movie,

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Speaker 2: and Charles Groden is a long suffering person. Right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Well you know who loves the film?

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Speaker 3: Ummm, Saddam hussaying, no.

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Speaker 2: Good, guess I'll tell you it this way. Martin Short

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Speaker 2: was on a flight from LA to New York. And

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Speaker 2: he had never met this person who loved the film,

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Speaker 2: and this person wanted to talk to him all about it.

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Speaker 2: And this is like, this is a movie was a bomb?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: Nobody ever goes hey.

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Speaker 3: Look was it Henry Kissinger?

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Speaker 2: Good? Guess no, So I'll just I'll read you. This

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Speaker 2: is how Martin Short tells the story. Okay, quote. Half

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Speaker 2: an hour into the flight, I noticed a figure hovering

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Speaker 2: in the periphery of my vision. Nicholas Cage crouched in

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Speaker 2: the aisle beside me, his eyes locked on mine. Can

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Speaker 2: I just say something to you? He said, a very

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Speaker 2: Nick Cagy intensity in his voice. The dining room scene

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Speaker 2: in Clifford with You and Charles Groden, where he's confronting

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Speaker 2: you and you keep lying to him, a sustained battle

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Speaker 2: of wits, much of it improvised, in which Clifford drives

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Speaker 2: Groad's character the edge. Well, I broke my VCR watching it.

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Speaker 2: I watched that scene twenty five times in a row,

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Speaker 2: and I rewound it so much that the machine jammed

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Speaker 2: and the tape broke. What Nick Cage man? I love

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Speaker 2: Nick Cage. I want to meet him if you could

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Speaker 2: ask me there if you have. If I met like

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Speaker 2: a genie and they're like, you get three wishes, two

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Speaker 2: of them would be Nick Cage.

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Speaker 3: Related, Meet Nick Cage and what's the other one?

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Speaker 2: Got to meet him again? He likes me, so we

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Speaker 2: hang out and become friends. We like we race cars

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Speaker 2: and we compare, like our various comic book collections, and

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Speaker 2: our kung fu fighting and like weather Jack, I like

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Speaker 2: your your karate g Have you seen my kung fu outfit?

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Speaker 2: We show up surprise each other with sunglass gifts. Let's

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Speaker 2: make that happen. I know, Nicholas Cage. If you're listening,

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Speaker 2: we could be best. So there you go. It's ridiculous,

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Speaker 2: right it is?

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Speaker 3: And do you want to know what else is ridiculou?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm here.

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Speaker 3: For social media influencers. This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast

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Speaker 3: about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and cons. It's always

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Speaker 3: ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Damn right.

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Speaker 3: Influencers in them. Yeah, I'm talking about the folks who

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Speaker 3: leverage their online presence, yes, particularly on social media, to

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Speaker 3: affect the opinions, the behaviors, the purchasing decisions.

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Speaker 2: Yes, of consumers. I'm assuming their audience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like that's an academic way to put it. Yes,

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Speaker 3: it's very nice and how minded they build a following,

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Speaker 3: like they create this engaging content, yes, and they interact

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Speaker 3: with their audience and they establish themselves as like a

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Speaker 3: credible source.

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Speaker 2: Of information at an entertaining one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like and usually like in a specific niche.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so they lurk.

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Speaker 3: They darken the doorways of social media platforms like Instagram totally.

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Speaker 2: They're almost like street level famous YouTube.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, YouTube, YouTube TikTok.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, so they have or they want you to.

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Speaker 4: Say, by the way, that is now called ekis in Spanish,

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Speaker 4: Oh it's sekis Okay, so YouTube TikTok and ekis.

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Speaker 3: And then Insta. So they want you to think that

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Speaker 3: they have this like specialized knowledge experience or like authority

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Speaker 3: so that their opinions are valuable.

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Speaker 2: Totally, or a great life that you're envs like you.

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Speaker 3: And they build this trust through interaction. What they want

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Speaker 3: you to think is transparency totally and like a consistent

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Speaker 3: brand voice.

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Speaker 4: Ah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So the endorsements, the recommendations, they carry weight. They

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Speaker 3: impact people's decisions on things including purchasing stuff totally products

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Speaker 3: and services and and so, like you know, they focus on,

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Speaker 3: like I said, a specific niche beauty, fashion, fitness, technology.

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Speaker 2: Travel, gambling, advice.

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Speaker 3: How do yeah, how do they do it?

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Speaker 2: Zara? How do they do Elizabeth? Great questions Aaron.

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Speaker 3: They create and share various types of content a.

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Speaker 2: Photos, videos, steady stream of stuff, live streams.

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Speaker 3: It's all just like tailored for this audience. Sometimes they

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Speaker 3: do collabse that's true, very true, to promote these products

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Speaker 3: or services. It's like sponsored content, reviews, ambassadorships.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, brought to you by Yetti cooler, so you're.

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Speaker 3: Like the toblerone ambassador. They get commissions for like hawking

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Speaker 3: this stuff, and I understand, yeah, And then they have

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Speaker 3: all like these affiliate links and stuff, and they can

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Speaker 3: track the sales through their recommendations. Some of them sell

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Speaker 3: their own stuff merch digital courses, and they do public events,

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Speaker 3: they do conferences, met and greets.

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Speaker 2: They've really changed the name of fame.

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Speaker 3: They really really have. And here's something that I find interesting.

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Speaker 2: What is that, Elizabeth.

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Speaker 3: We like to classify and label everything, including influencers. So

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Speaker 3: there's a categorization for influencers based on their following. Oh

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Speaker 3: really yeah, so mega influencers are celebrities and public figures

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Speaker 3: with millions of followers. Millions, okay, so mega influencers, macro

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Speaker 3: influencers have five hundred thousand to one million followers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know this was about brokenewer.

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Speaker 3: Mid tier influencers they're fifty thousand to five hundred thousand.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Micro influencers they have ten thousand to fifty thousand followers.

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Speaker 3: And then there's nano influencers and that's one thousand to

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Speaker 3: ten thousand followers. Okay, So, and then there's me, the

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Speaker 3: anti influencer.

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Speaker 2: Wait, so wait a minute on Ekis on Twitter. Then

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Speaker 2: I would have been a nano nano because I had

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Speaker 2: like some like six thousand. Yeah, I didn't even know

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Speaker 2: what I was.

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Speaker 3: That it was right there in front of you. You

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Speaker 3: could have monetized.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to tell my family I am.

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Speaker 3: The anti influencer. Yeah, I have a private account. I

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Speaker 3: have less than a thousand followers, and I'm an anti

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Speaker 3: influencer in that if I were to profile a product

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Speaker 3: or a lifestyle as cool, it would instantly make it

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Speaker 3: uncool and.

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Speaker 2: Lose money that's not true.

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Speaker 3: I deflate brand, but I can.

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Speaker 2: See people being less likely to buy that ruin fads.

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Speaker 3: I am an anti influencer, but influencers, right, they're this

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Speaker 3: great trope.

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Speaker 2: By the way, just interrupt for a second. Would you

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Speaker 2: want to be to have and wield that power? It

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Speaker 2: feels like something you would hate.

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Speaker 3: No, I couldn't. I could. I wouldn't want to. I

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Speaker 3: would find it exhausting. Yeah, Like I dabble on social media,

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Speaker 3: so I'll post something every now and then, but like,

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Speaker 3: I don't have how the interns do it with our

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Speaker 3: Instagram account.

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Speaker 2: I can't.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't keep up with that.

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Speaker 2: I stay from social media now. It's all gotten lame anywhere.

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Speaker 3: It's exhausting and I don't really care. And so you know, we.

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Speaker 2: Also, I mean there's just when I go into Instagram now,

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Speaker 2: it's like I don't see people who I follow anymore. No,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, what happened? I didn't add any of

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Speaker 2: this stuff.

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Speaker 3: There's all this stuffy social media I have, But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't go in there because it's ads and it's

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Speaker 3: stuff I don't know why I'm being.

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Speaker 2: Shown and they've really changed the game.

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Speaker 3: And then if you look someone up who's a friend

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Speaker 3: of yours and you see all this stuff that you missed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, do you have to pay to be an influencer?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 2: I mean, what's up?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but we need to get back to

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Speaker 3: like group emails.

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Speaker 2: There you go. There.

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Speaker 3: It is so we got the trope of the influencer,

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Speaker 3: like an airhead who can create the image of success

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Speaker 3: and coolness and people just follow blindly.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 3: I like to see people in public trying to get

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Speaker 3: into the game and create quote unquote content.

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Speaker 2: Yes, like in restaurants and stuff, and they're like reviewing

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Speaker 2: the food they're eating and they're alone, the cameras on

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Speaker 2: like a little tripod on the table.

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Speaker 3: You and I We're at Heifeiburger in Oakland and saw

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Speaker 3: a guy doing that.

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Speaker 2: Right, That's what I was thinking of.

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Speaker 3: It was. It was a really weird thing to watch,

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Speaker 3: Like he had multiple cameras set up.

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Speaker 2: Totally on a table by himself. He turned his personality on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then was like talking. It was really strange.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, that's content. I don't like that word.

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Speaker 2: Just like marry not content.

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Speaker 3: You make stupid videos. It's not content, you make stupid videos.

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Speaker 3: I have really set myself up to be like the

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Speaker 3: grumpy old gal today anti influencer. It's nine days out

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Speaker 3: of ten these days anyway, influencers in public. So it's

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Speaker 3: wild and like you see them making their videos and

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Speaker 3: like crowded airports.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, I've seen that gyms parks their like yoga stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they've got like some friend filming them. Okay,

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Speaker 3: take it from the top. Yeah, the light's really good.

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Speaker 3: It looks foolish.

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Speaker 2: It also just doesn't look like real or present or

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Speaker 2: any of the things you would really want from somebody

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Speaker 2: who is trying to influence you. But it's so performing.

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Speaker 3: When you see it, it makes me think of like

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Speaker 3: if I hear a jingle and a commercial, I automatically

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Speaker 3: think about what it looked like when they were recording

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Speaker 3: in the studio, Like, well, someone like shredding on a

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Speaker 3: guitar and the guy from the ad agency is like,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but that's just not giving toyotas on right now,

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Speaker 3: like I need to take it from the top. Or

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Speaker 3: like a vocalist at the mic like singing her heart

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Speaker 3: out and the producer clicks on the speaker and says,

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Speaker 3: you know, that was great, but I need you to

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Speaker 3: put a little more of a growl in the words

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Speaker 3: Maxi pad and she's like, okay, got it, got it,

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Speaker 3: Like okay's just again.

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Speaker 2: Come on, grab the keys, let me go, let's go.

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Speaker 3: So all that said, I have for you today some influencers,

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Speaker 3: criminal ones, ones that ran afoul of the law while

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Speaker 3: in the act of personal myth making. So that's what

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Speaker 3: being an influencer is, right, it's personal myth making, creating

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Speaker 3: a persona and a lifestyle that's simply not true, not attainable,

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Speaker 3: it's mythic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to start outside of these here, United States,

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Speaker 3: home of innumerable grifters and cons who sail the social

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Speaker 3: media sees that we're going over to Bele Italia.

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Speaker 2: Oh heck, yeah.

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Speaker 3: I want to tell you about Kiara Feranyi. Yeah. So

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Speaker 3: she is one of the most prominent figures in Italy

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Speaker 3: and fashion media digital entrepreneurship saren. She was born in

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty seven in Cremona, Italy. Her dad was a dentist.

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Speaker 3: Her mom, Marina Degardo, is a Sicilian writer who worked

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Speaker 3: as deputy director for the fashion brand Blue Marine. So

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Speaker 3: she's in that.

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Speaker 2: So she's kind of a nepo baby.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and she's got these sisters. And when she was

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Speaker 3: sixteen years old, she got scouted by a modeling agency

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Speaker 3: in Milan. Sixteen Oh okay, when she was six. They

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Speaker 3: were like, yeah, look look at those gams.

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Speaker 2: You're going You have a future, You have a future.

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Speaker 3: So she modeled for a couple of years. She gave

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Speaker 3: it up. In two thousand and nine, she and her

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Speaker 3: ex boyfriend Ricardo Pizzoli, they started her fashion blog call

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Speaker 3: The Blonde Salad.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, just a word salad.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it means something, and it sounds better an.

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Speaker 2: Italian sounds better than the original Italian?

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Speaker 3: Exactly?

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Speaker 2: Isn't a soup? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: His name is Rick Soup exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So twenty eleven teen Vogue named her Blogger of

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Speaker 3: the Moment. So that's who I lost out to that year, apparently. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: I thought you had a good shot that year. I know,

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Speaker 2: I've been blogging it.

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Speaker 3: Up her blog. Though her blog didn't just stay a blog,

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Speaker 3: oh no, it evolved into a full scale talent agency

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Speaker 3: and fashion brand. She had like a footwear collection. She

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Speaker 3: was making millions of euros. Twenty fifteen, she became the

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Speaker 3: first fashion blogger to appear on any Vogue cover for

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Speaker 3: Vogue Espanya.

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Speaker 2: Oh look at her.

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Speaker 3: She got featured Forbes thirty under thirty.

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Speaker 2: Don't you buy her way on into that?

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Speaker 3: I think probably? And she was the subject of a

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Speaker 3: Harvard Business School case study. Really a different kind of criminal.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So by twenty seventeen, Kiara had ten million followers on Instagram.

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Speaker 3: Ten million.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: She launched these collections. She had a capsule collection, like

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Speaker 3: literally with n Espresso in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: The coffee maker. So it wasn't closed, it was like

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Speaker 2: which coffee.

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Speaker 3: It was like special coffees. She had fragrance quote initiatives,

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Speaker 3: as some sources called them. I have a fragrance initiative

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Speaker 3: and I, you know, put on the old squirts and

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Speaker 3: then walk out of.

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Speaker 2: I have a fragrance initiative. Like when I've been in

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Speaker 2: like a closed room for a while, someone comes up

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, I know it's crazy in here.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's an initiative.

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Speaker 2: We have to take an initiative.

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Speaker 3: So she appeared in documentaries like Kiar for any unposted,

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Speaker 3: and then she had this reality series The Ferragnz What

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Speaker 3: and that ran from twenty twenty to twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Because he she married an Italian rapper called Fedes fed Easy.

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Speaker 2: Oh so this was their portmanteau.

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Speaker 3: And his real name is Fredriko Luccia.

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Speaker 2: He didn't stay with that.

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Speaker 3: That's a good nose, right, I mean, that's like that's

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Speaker 3: you could be smooth, don't know, he's like one of

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Speaker 3: those illustrated man types. He looks like the desk in

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Speaker 3: a poorly performing high school's detention room. Like he's all

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Speaker 3: scribble city. So the couple there they became known as

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Speaker 3: Faragnez and I know I'm not saying that, like, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, sure the benefit of their yeah Italy exactly.

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Speaker 3: So they had two kids before separating in early twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four. But they'll always have that reality show. I'm

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Speaker 3: shocked it didn't last, to be honest. Oh so a

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Speaker 3: lot so she served as a judge or like guest

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Speaker 3: judge on shows like Project Runway, Making the Cut and

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Speaker 3: the San Remo Music Festival. She's just everywhere sounds and

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Speaker 3: she also she's got all these brand partnerships mashups. If

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Speaker 3: he will late in twenty twenty two, she partnered with Balco,

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Speaker 3: a well known confectionery company, to launch a limited edition

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Speaker 3: pink Christmas Pandora, branded with her logo.

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Speaker 2: That's a bread, right, what is Pandora? What is Pandora? Elizabeth? Clearly,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I'm so good at asking.

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Speaker 2: Yes, great question, Elizabeth.

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Speaker 3: Pandora is a traditional Italian sweet bread. Okay, you have

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Speaker 3: it during Christmas?

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Speaker 2: Her pan, I just assume bread.

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Speaker 3: It's a golden bread, a Dior.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it came from Verona Fair, Verona.

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Speaker 2: The gentleman, come from there.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's known for its golden color. It has like

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Speaker 3: a fluffy Brioche like text. Oh that sounds good, signature

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Speaker 3: eight point star shape. You bake it into a special.

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Speaker 2: Mold Okay, there we go.

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Speaker 3: It gets dusted with powdered sugar. It looks like snow

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Speaker 3: covered mountains. It's delishes.

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Speaker 2: Sound good?

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Speaker 3: You've actually had it at my place?

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Speaker 2: Have I?

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Speaker 3: Because Sarah Tasioni, the Colabrian cutie. Yes, she always brings

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Speaker 3: one over.

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Speaker 2: The it is Okay, I would like to try it

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Speaker 2: again because it sounds amazing. Apparently the first time you.

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Speaker 3: Did, you did, but she just don't remember these things.

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Speaker 3: You know, you got drunk on Pandora and then we

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Speaker 3: had to wheel you out the door. So these things

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Speaker 3: are everywhere in the shops at holiday times, all right,

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Speaker 3: and they come in like those cool boxes. It's like

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Speaker 3: a curved top cardboard box, like a dome almost, and

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Speaker 3: the boxes are a lot of times really beautifully decorated.

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Speaker 3: Hers was special. It was a stylish pink box with

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Speaker 3: a red ribbon on top, and there was matching pink

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Speaker 3: icing on the Pandora.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the millennial, yes.

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Speaker 3: And there are all sorts of pictures of her pretending

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Speaker 3: to take a bite of a slice of it where

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Speaker 3: she's like yeah, and then you know she's like spits

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Speaker 3: it out.

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Speaker 2: I like it if she did that, and then like smile,

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Speaker 2: there's just crumbs all on her teeth and like I

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Speaker 2: love these Whereas.

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Speaker 3: They caught her like mid where it's just like half

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Speaker 3: the pieces left, she's like and like a hand mark

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Speaker 3: of so it. But it wasn't just that the packaging

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00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,439
Speaker 3: was cute and the was cute and she's cute. The

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Speaker 3: campaign was promoting a charity initiative.

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Speaker 2: What's the charity initiative?

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad? I asked that buyers they were led

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Speaker 3: to believe that a portion of each cakes I believe

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Speaker 3: would be donated to the Regina Margherita Children's Hospital in

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Speaker 3: Turin to support Turino, to support sarcoma and youing sarcoma.

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Speaker 2: Research, dear god, children's cancer, and that of.

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Speaker 3: Course didn't happen, which is really you know why we're

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Speaker 3: talking about her. So in reality, the company Baloco, they

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00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,520
Speaker 3: made a single donation of fifty thousand euros before the

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Speaker 3: promotional campaign began, okay, and.

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Speaker 2: That was it.

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Speaker 3: No further donations tied to sales volume, which is how

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Speaker 3: those things normally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the idea.

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Speaker 3: And these these cakes were priced at around nine euros each,

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Speaker 3: and that's compared to the normal like you know, three, three,

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Speaker 3: seventy or four euros.

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Speaker 2: So there's very specific like that.

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Speaker 3: So there's like a steep mark. Her companies made nearly

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Speaker 3: a million dollars in licensing promotional revenue, and remember peeled

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Speaker 3: off only fifty k for kids cancer. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So there was this journalist, Silvaggia Lucerelli, and she, like herself,

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00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 3: is pretty problematic and has been sued fifteen ways to

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Speaker 3: Sunday for privacy violations defamations right now, Well, she uncovered

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Speaker 3: the discrepancy, so I'll say, okay, good job.

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Speaker 2: Get on her. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: By early twenty twenty four, Italy's antitrust authority had opened

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Speaker 3: an investigation into both Farani and the Pandora company Ploco.

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Speaker 3: So they figured that the consumers had been misled into

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Speaker 3: thinking that the purchases triggered donations, when in fact the

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00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 3: donations was independent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So she and her companies were fined over a million euros,

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Speaker 3: and then the cake company got fined around six hundred

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00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 3: and seventy five thousand. She publicly apologized. She said she

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00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,480
Speaker 3: believed that no trial necessary to prove her innocence, and

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Speaker 3: she's like, you know what, I'm going to go ahead

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00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 3: and donate a million euros to the hospital, and I'm

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Speaker 3: never going to mix charity and commerce in future promotions.

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00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 3: And then people started digging around some more and they

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00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:19,199
Speaker 3: found other like hanky charity stuff. She did Easter Eggs

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00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two, and then

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Speaker 3: all these other branded collaborations that were supposed to have

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00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 3: a charity aspect to it. A similar structures payments to

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00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 3: her brands while no conditional donations were made. This consumer

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00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 3: group CODACONS filed complaints across all these Italian jurisdictions. Multiple

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00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 3: investigations were initiated into all this like aggravated fraud. So

404
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 3: October of twenty twenty four, Milan prosecutors concluded that she

405
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,159
Speaker 3: had realized an unjust profit of two point two five

406
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,879
Speaker 3: million euros via all these schemes, and they wanted to

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00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 3: do indicteror for aggravated fraud. By it's December of twenty

408
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:05,199
Speaker 3: twenty four, she reached a settlement with CODACNS, agreeing to

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Speaker 3: compensate all the affected consumers with one hundred and fifty

410
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 3: euros each, reimbursed legal expenses, and donate two hundred thousand

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Speaker 3: euros to an anti violence charity for women.

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Speaker 2: She essentially stole some two and whatever million euros from

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Speaker 2: all these charities, and she gets off with a slap

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Speaker 2: on the rest essentially.

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00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,360
Speaker 3: And then they withdrew their complaints. So despite the settlement,

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00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 3: January twenty twenty five, the Milan prosecutor formally indicted her

417
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 3: on aggravated fraud charges, along with Bloco's leadership and her

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00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 3: former manager Fabio Dmato. So a trial is set to

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Speaker 3: begin in September.

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Speaker 2: Oh so she actually still catch some with justice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she faces up to five years in prison.

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00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Simultaneously, the scandal triggered legislative change, a sort of Jackie

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00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 3: Cougan situation. In early twenty twenty four, Italy enacted the

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Speaker 3: Ferrani Law, requiring influencers with over one million followers to

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00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 3: clearly disclose and legally structure charitable promotions to combat false

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Speaker 3: advertising and fraud.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing they put her name on the law.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if you got over a million. So let's let's

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Speaker 3: stop there for a bit. I need to hear some ads.

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Speaker 3: I'm hoping for one for some influencer stuff. That would

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Speaker 3: be amazing. When we come back, more social media scamming

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Speaker 3: Zareneth Saren All right, are you ready to influence?

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Speaker 2: You don't have to get ready.

435
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 3: If you stay ready, let me tell you something. Belle Gibson, like,

436
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 3: I'm talking about the star of such his as lethal

437
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 3: weapon three, what women want? Daddy's home too, tim and

438
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 3: boss level but with a stuffed up nose Bell Gibson,

439
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 3: which I have quite a bit anyway, because I'm a

440
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 3: delicate orchid. In the slightest thing sets my systems up.

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Speaker 2: This is true.

442
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 3: No, I said Belle Gibson, not Mel Gibson. Belle is

443
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 3: another Aussie and one who's also full of it. Oh

444
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 3: really yeah, So she was born Annabelle Natalie Gibson.

445
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,479
Speaker 2: Does she Do you think she intentionally tried to make

446
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: it Bell Gibson. So it's kind of had like.

447
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 3: That, probably Bell Gibson. Belle Gibson with boord and like

448
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 3: to do well in Tasmania Devil. She dropped out of

449
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 3: high school. She moved to Perth, Australia. She got work

450
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 3: at like a catering supply company, and she got super

451
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 3: into skateboarding culture there. Good for her, right, and she

452
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 3: was a big online presence in that community because that's

453
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 3: where all the action takes place with skateboarding is online totally.

454
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 3: That's really the spot really where everything happens. In July

455
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 3: of two thousand and nine, she moved to Melbourne, Melbourne, Melbourne, Melbourne,

456
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 3: Melbourne and the next year, when she was eighteen, she

457
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 3: had a kid. Congratulations. A couple of years go by

458
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: then she made it to the big time. She opened

459
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 3: an Instagram account. H No, she w buddy, I wish,

460
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,959
Speaker 3: I wish. So she has this Instagram account. It has

461
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 3: now been deleted. I think healing underscore bell and she

462
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,479
Speaker 3: claimed that she had multiple cancers, including a terminal brain tumor.

463
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 3: Tragic news and then she's like, oh, ps, I also

464
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 3: I healed myself through natural diets and holistic health approaches,

465
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 3: so you know that's the way it works with terminal

466
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 3: brain cancer and other cancers. I have had it up

467
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 3: to hear with pseudoscience, like science denial. Food is medicine, yes,

468
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 3: but it's not the only medicine. Yes, eat your color

469
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 3: is very important, but it's not the only medicine. If

470
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 3: you buy into this, please don't message me or email

471
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 3: us or leave some like wounded comment. I'm glad you

472
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 3: feel like you've accomplished something, but we are seeing people

473
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 3: dying as a result of the ignorance that blossoms in

474
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 3: this BS wellness culture.

475
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know, legit, people that likely have been dying.

476
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 2: Amanda from MTV she died press cancer, which she could

477
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: have been treating it.

478
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And TikTok not a source of health information.

479
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: Now, all the short form videos just generally.

480
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 3: Pasteurization important and safe.

481
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah that's true.

482
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: Vaccines save lives. Yeah, yeah, Gibson was going around telling

483
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 3: the media that she had this brain cancer. She also

484
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 3: had blood, spleen, uterine, liver, and kidney cancer.

485
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: What the hell?

486
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 3: What bad luck? Right? Bad luck? No, not bad luck.

487
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 3: She said she got all of those as a reaction

488
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 3: to the Gardasle cervical cancer vaccine.

489
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So she threw shade on real legit vaccine. Yeah,

490
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: and she's like, I got all the cancer.

491
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 3: But she's like, you know, the thing is, what's great,

492
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 3: I cured my cancer with Whole Foods.

493
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: So a.

494
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 3: Year after starting her Instagram account, she debuted The Whole Pantry,

495
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 3: which was a mobile app that blended healthy recipes, positive affirmations,

496
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: and wellness philosophy.

497
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 2: Now you know, I grew up eating health food. I

498
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: was a vegetarian as a kid, so I understand and

499
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 2: will argue for the benefit of food being key. But

500
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 2: I'm with you. I cannot stand this stuff that people

501
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 2: have been doing because now it's hard for people to

502
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: find the real science because of.

503
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 3: These exactly exactly, so, this app, The Whole Pantry, was

504
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 3: downloaded two hundred thousand times in its first month, and

505
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 3: then it was later selected as one of Apple's best

506
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 3: food and drink apps in twenty thirteen. That is who

507
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 3: we lost out to that year's Zarin right. Okay, so

508
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 3: it was also slated to be pre installed on the

509
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 3: new Apple Watch in twenty fifteen.

510
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 2: Like a youtwo song.

511
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: Well you know how great Apple is when it comes

512
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: to judgment and pre installations.

513
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: No products, it never failed, no, no always good ones. Yeah,

514
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 2: so around, I still can't get that YouTube bottom of

515
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 2: my computer, my phone, my iPad.

516
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: It never around the same time, she secured a cookbook deal,

517
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 3: and when the book was launched in November of twenty fourteen,

518
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: she wrote in the preface that she had been quote

519
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: stable for two years now with no growth of the cancer.

520
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 3: But that didn't match up what she'd said in the

521
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 3: press and in her social media, Like she was telling

522
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 3: magazines that the cancer had reached her liver and her kidneys.

523
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: She posted on The Whole Pantry's Facebook page that her

524
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: cancer had spread to her brain, blood, spleen, and uterus.

525
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 3: And then she doubled down. She's like, you know what,

526
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 3: it's I don't just have cancer, I have heart failure too.

527
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: I also have hair cancer.

528
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 3: She said, that's that. Get damned hair cancer. She said

529
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 3: she had to have heart surgery quote several times.

530
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 2: Several times.

531
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then she even died on the table once

532
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: and they were all clear and they brought her back.

533
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 2: She didn't start doing near death experienced stuff and I

534
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 2: went to heaven and came back.

535
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: But like, was that enough? No? No, what story people

536
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 3: would say, can we interview your doctors and look at

537
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 3: your charts? Like we've never seen anything like this for

538
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 3: someone who'd undergone multiple heart surgeries. She was shockingly scarfree.

539
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, zipper or no, it was the chest.

540
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: No, nothing, no, raised, it was you know.

541
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 2: Exactly.

542
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 3: Through the nose. So, like I said earlier, and we've agreed,

543
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: food is medicine. That's undisputed. And the whole pantry was

544
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 3: actually like a good thing in terms of promoting movement

545
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 3: and exercise and positivity and healthy eating.

546
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll name some good stuff and what they're catching

547
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 2: app wasn't. That's why it gets confusing.

548
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 3: The app wasn't the problem. The problem was Old Girl's

549
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: Instagram account. So that's where she was like touting snake

550
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 3: oil stuff like coffee enemas, juice cleanses, detox liver cleansing,

551
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: which ps, that's what your liver does. For a living

552
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 3: and then like really dangerous stuff like anti facts and

553
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 3: drinking the pasteurized raw milk brainworm City basically. So either way,

554
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 3: she's making moves, she's doing deals, and she was living

555
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: large too, Like she had this really posh townhouse, she

556
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 3: drove a luxury car, elegant office space. She was getting

557
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 3: like cosmetic dental procedures. Yeah, she wore designer clothes. She

558
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 3: took all these really extravagant international vacations, sales of the

559
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 3: app and the book combined to bring in more than

560
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 3: one hundred million Australian dollars for our miracle gal. What

561
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: she was on the brink of expanding out into a

562
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 3: brand called The Whole Life, not just the whole Pantry,

563
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: the Whole Life, which seems like a lot, The Whole

564
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 3: Life all that's everything.

565
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: I'm still stuck on one hundred million, the Australian dollars.

566
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: Right, No, one million million? Did I say it? It's

567
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 3: one million anyway, So she of course claimed charitable intentions.

568
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 3: So I feel like the Kardashians are the only ones

569
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: on this ship of fools who just take the money

570
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: and don't try to do some bogus I don't know,

571
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: maybe they do. I don't know willingly follow what they do.

572
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 3: Everything I know is through osmosis. I watch a lot

573
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: of stuff on TV, like a lot, but I draw

574
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 3: the line at around on that, Oh my gosh, I'm

575
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 3: so living my truth and honest and transparent. Anyway, So,

576
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: Gibbson said that she donated substantial proceeds up to three

577
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars to various causes, including like children with cancer,

578
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: maternal health care, but investigative reports revealed that only a

579
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: few thousand dollars were actually donated, like two percent of

580
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 3: what she claimed. Yeah, And since rumors about her possible

581
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: fraud started to spread, people looked into all her business

582
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 3: dealings and it came out that her charitable contributions from

583
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 3: both twenty thirteen and twenty fourteen never made it to

584
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: the stated destinations. And Gimbson is like, that's a lie.

585
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: And the press were like, no, you're the lie. You

586
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 3: are one big lie.

587
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: You're the lie. Yeah.

588
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 3: So Fairfax Media they found that she had quote failed

589
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 3: to hand over the proceeds solicited in the name of

590
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: five charities and had quote grossly overstated the company's total

591
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 3: donations to different causes When asked about this, two of

592
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: the charities backed it up. They were like, she used

593
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: our name in fundraising drives, but that was like as

594
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 3: far as we got involved, some of them got shady

595
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 3: little bits of money or no money at all.

596
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: Okay.

597
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 3: One of the big claims was that the whole pantry

598
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 3: donated three hundred thousand to charity, not just the cancer stuff,

599
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: but like you know, healthcare and impoverished countries and like

600
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 3: schools and sub Saharan Africa.

601
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: Oh that that old.

602
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

603
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: People always picked the same ones because it's like, oh,

604
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: you're doing such good work with those ports children and

605
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: some South in Africa who don't even have deaths at schools,

606
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: and those kids with cancer.

607
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: Tell me the name of the country or the city

608
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 3: or the village, like no, just deepest, darkest stuff. So

609
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: at one point she said she was working with twenty

610
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: different charities. Twenty Yeah, that was a major exact.

611
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: It's also a nice round number. She should have gone

612
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 2: with eighteen, I know.

613
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 3: So they presented with all this damning evidence of her fraud.

614
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 3: She admitted like, okay, yeah, that is a major exaggeration.

615
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 3: So the press they really start digging in. They calculate

616
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 3: that she had donated a total of about seven grand

617
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: spread among three charities, and that's a long way from

618
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: three hundred thousand dollars.

619
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 2: The best kind of Reporters also found she doesn't even

620
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: tip at restaurants.

621
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 3: Well, and then a thousand of that seven thousand was

622
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: only donated after the media investigations came to light. She's

623
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 3: got to throw another thousand in it. And some of

624
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: the seven thousand wasn't even donated in her name or

625
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: the company's name. It was just under someone else's name.

626
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: Because you know, I make a lot of really big donations,

627
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: but I do it under my other name, Mackenzie Scott,

628
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: like the same name as ex wife of Jeff Bezos,

629
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 3: happens to donate billions or sometimes I donate under the

630
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: name Bill Gates. Oh yeah, the pet name that my

631
00:31:58,520 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: friends have for me.

632
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 2: Your longer name Bill and Melinda Gates.

633
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Yeah yeah, that's it's like,

634
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 3: you know, a family thing.

635
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: Thank you for all the money, you.

636
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: Know, me and Darlene shyly So. One of the charities

637
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: that Gibson said that she was fundraising for was to

638
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 3: support treatment for a kid with brain cancer. The only

639
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: thing is her parents never saw a dime. They didn't

640
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: know that their kid was being used as a fundraising too,

641
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: And then they were like starting to wonder if she

642
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 3: only befriended them and their kid in order to do

643
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 3: research on what it's like to have brain cancer?

644
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: Are you kidding? Yeah?

645
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: Apparently she was like asking a lot of questions which

646
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: you don't really need to ask if you yourself have

647
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: brain cancer, She's like.

648
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: Does it hurt on side of your head or like

649
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: in the center?

650
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 3: Totally. So in February of twenty fifteen, things started to

651
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 3: come crashing down. A close friend of Gibson's confronted her, like,

652
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: have you been cheating the charities? And do you have

653
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: cancer in the first place? You have to tell the truth.

654
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: Her friend told her, No, said Gibson, I do not.

655
00:32:59,120 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: Have to tell the truth.

656
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 3: So her friends saw that Gibson was not just getting

657
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 3: one over on people. She was hurting people people with cancer.

658
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: So she's like, I know what I gotta do. I'm

659
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: going public. She got in touch with the cops, a lawyer,

660
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: and an investigative journalist. Oh no, that's the start of

661
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: a joke right there.

662
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: Seriously, I'll walk into a bar but here's the.

663
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: Thing, none of them really interested in what she had

664
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 3: to say.

665
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 2: Why not?

666
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 3: I don't know.

667
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: But then was she not good at telling the stories?

668
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: You walk in, my friend, you'll find that a lot

669
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 3: of people don't want to step to these influencers. They

670
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 3: just like that thing, you know. Yeah, you'll see. So

671
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 3: the Melbourne newspaper The Age, stepped up. They broke the

672
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: story and in March twenty fifteen, after reports identified her

673
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: charity frauds, it was revealed that she made up her

674
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: cancers and then also lied about her age, her personal

675
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 3: life or history so she couldn't escape it now. In

676
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: April of twenty fifteen, she admitted to Australian Women's Weekly

677
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 3: that her claims about all of her cancers were just fiction.

678
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 3: As she said, quote, none of it's true. And she

679
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: said it wasn't her fault though, I mean, it never is.

680
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: She claimed that it was the way that she was

681
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: brought up. Her mom neglected her. She said she had

682
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 3: to take care of her. Yeah, she said, you had

683
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 3: to take care of herself. And her autistic little brother

684
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: from a very young age.

685
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: Was he really autistic?

686
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 3: She never got to be a kid. It was everyone

687
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: else's fault. Throughout the whole interview, she never apologized. It

688
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 3: should be noted that her mom then gave an interview

689
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 3: stating that that was all her claims were false and

690
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: that her little brother is not as I knew. I know,

691
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 3: I know, I don't know how. So here you have

692
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 3: this woman who has all these deals, books, apps, with Apple,

693
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 3: lifestyle brands, you name it, and it's all built upon

694
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 3: her having a bunch of different cancers and treating it

695
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: with stuff like apple cider, vinegar.

696
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: And nobody was suspicious.

697
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: No, and then now she admits made it all up,

698
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 3: never had cancer.

699
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 2: I'm a fraud.

700
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: And so this made people wonder, like, what's up with

701
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 3: these big corporations or shoveling cash? He like, didn't they

702
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 3: investigate before signing on to like basically endorse her brand

703
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 3: And where's the due diligence? Yeah, so we're talking about

704
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 3: like her cookbook publisher was Penguin Books. So and then

705
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 3: you got Apple and the watch launch, all that breathless,

706
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 3: fawning coverage in the Australian press. Everyone seemed to look

707
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 3: the other way because the story was just too good

708
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 3: and she was making them too much money. So let's

709
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 3: look at Penguin. I like to go after publishers. So

710
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: Lantern Books was the imprint, the Penguin imprint that put

711
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: out the cookbook. They were like, hey man, it's a cookbook.

712
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: We only vet the recipes. It actually looked into her

713
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 3: sort of Before the book was published. They made her

714
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 3: answer questions on video about the information in her preface

715
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 3: that told her sob story, and I guess they thought

716
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 3: it was good enough, like you know, things got hot though,

717
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 3: So Penguin pulled the from the shelves. Claimed it was

718
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 3: because it was asking Gibson for confirmation of her stories

719
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 3: and she wasn't providing it, And they wound up having

720
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 3: to pay thirty thousand dollars to the Victorian Consumer Law

721
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 3: Fund as a penalty for not validating her you know,

722
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 3: the veracity of.

723
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: Claimed and doing their due diligence essentially, Saren, what about Apple?

724
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 2: What about Apple? Isabeth Pocket?

725
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 4: Apple?

726
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 2: Long?

727
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 3: Last you ask a question? At first, Apple refused to

728
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: pull the whole pantry app from the app store?

729
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 2: Are you kidding?

730
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 3: They said that the only thing they cared about was

731
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: that the app worked like it said it would, And

732
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: they're like, it's functional, or get off our backs Wow.

733
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 3: But then they quietly removed it from the Apple Watch,

734
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 3: like she didn't get the U two treatment. They just

735
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 3: like pulled it. And then they quietly took the app

736
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: off the app store and erased all the promotional material

737
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 3: that included whole pantry And like, did they explain themselves?

738
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 2: Probably not, of course not.

739
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 3: They're Apple, They're the big dogs. They owe no one

740
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: anything like.

741
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: Back off saren why asking somebody? Yeah.

742
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: Elle Australia magazine they wrote a glowing piece on her

743
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 3: in their December twenty fourteen issue. It came out, they

744
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: got a couple tips that like, you know, she's not

745
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 3: really telling the truth, everything's actually made up. Magazine ignores it.

746
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: Then another magazine, Cosmopolitan, which has like the same publisher

747
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 3: as El Australia, they gave Gibson its twenty fourteen Fun

748
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 3: Fearless Female Social Media Award, and then they also got

749
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 3: tips via email like hey, look, she's not what she

750
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: says she is. They ignored them.

751
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: We already gave her the three f awards, so we're

752
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: going with it. There.

753
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 3: It is then Gibson admits to the lies. Everyone figured

754
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 3: they'd do something like, you know, Stripper of the Award

755
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 3: the award that you and I should have won totally.

756
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 2: I mean, if anybody's a fun, fearless female, if you're me. No.

757
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 3: They claim that she had been quote reader nominated and

758
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 3: reader voted, like, so blame the reader. Yeah, nice, don't

759
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: worry that. When the award came out, the magazine's associate

760
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 3: editor said, they quote put forward the nomination myself. So

761
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 3: it was the readers or was it the staff? Does

762
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 3: anyone tell the truth around here?

763
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 2: Is there any accountability anymore? Zero?

764
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 3: May twenty sixteen, consumer Affairs Victoria cav initiated civil proceedings

765
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 3: against Gibson and her company. They cited misleading and deceptive

766
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 3: conduct under Australian consumer law. March twenty seventeen, the Federal

767
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 3: Court of Australia upheld most allegations. They figured that like

768
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: Gibson had no reasonable basis to believe she had cancer,

769
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: and that she had engaged in deceptive conduct.

770
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: She should have stuck with skateboarding.

771
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,439
Speaker 3: Honestly, like it'd be a different world for her right now.

772
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: They tried to enforce the judgment that like search warrants

773
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 3: on her property.

774
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty twenty twenty one, Raids and Stuff.

775
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, they tried to recover the unpaid debts, which like

776
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 3: at this point is north of five hundred thousand dollars.

777
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: February twenty twenty one, a court registrar classified the case

778
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: as abandoned, though, but enforcement actions continued. In early twenty

779
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 3: twenty five, Netflix least a dramatized series called Apple Cider Vinegar,

780
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: dramatizing her story and against wellness scams, and that was

781
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 3: based on the investigative book The Woman Who Fooled the

782
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 3: World by bo' donnelly and Nick Toscano. I have neither

783
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 3: read nor watched either influencer. Hell, that's where we are,

784
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 3: So let's take a break, little breather, listen to some ads,

785
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 3: maybe they will influence you. And when we come back,

786
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 3: I have one more for you, Zaren. Hey, Hey, I

787
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 3: got one more influencer for you today, Elizabeth Dunnon.

788
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: During the break, I was practicing influencing the interns. They

789
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 2: just looked at me and kind of hung their like

790
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: shaggy heads and they're like, what are you doing here?

791
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, but look they're all wearing your exact same outfit.

792
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: Who I didn't even notice you influenced them. Yeah, that's

793
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: good job. Thank you. I've learned so much today.

794
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 3: How many followers do you have? I have two and

795
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 3: their dogs.

796
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got the same too and their dogs.

797
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Carolyn Callaway, Yeah, she was the ultimate New York

798
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 3: lifestyle right. Was born in nineteen ninety one in Falls Church, Virginia.

799
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: She went to the Tony Boarding school Phillips Exeter Academy.

800
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 3: Her great grandpa was a real estate mogul who developed

801
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 3: most of Sarasota, Florida.

802
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: Oh fun fact, there you go.

803
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 3: So she started out as an undergrad and art history

804
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: at NYU, New York University, and then she got fixated

805
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 3: on going to Cambridge like just like determined. It took

806
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 3: her three applications, but in twenty thirteen she went to

807
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 3: Saint Edmund's College, Cambridge. She had to fake her transcripts

808
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 3: to get in, but whatever, what do you mean she

809
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 3: cheated her way into Cambridge?

810
00:40:58,360 --> 00:40:58,760
Speaker 4: Wow?

811
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. So she made a name for herself there, but

812
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 3: not academically. No. She joined Instagram and it was on

813
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 3: that platform that she created a highly stylized feed like

814
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 3: and her signature were these long diaristic captions.

815
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I remember people talking about this.

816
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. So her Instagram journey that began with glamorized depictions

817
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 3: of her student life at Cambridge, and she bought followers

818
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 3: and used targeted ads to build her following. Her feed

819
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: was aspirational, it was dreamy. She got the nickname Gatsby

820
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 3: of Cambridge.

821
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 2: Are you kidding?

822
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 3: I'm not Kiddingaty of Cambridge?

823
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: I mean you do know who? Did you read the book?

824
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 3: I haven't read the book, but we all know that

825
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 3: what we see on Insta isn't the honest truth at all.

826
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 3: It is a created identity.

827
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: A couple of friends of mine who just post pictures

828
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: of food that they've horrifically cooked.

829
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 3: My god, when people post pictures of dinners and you're like,

830
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 3: don't tell anyone you maybe.

831
00:41:58,880 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 2: Did your car run over that?

832
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 3: And it's like the flash was on and it's just

833
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,919
Speaker 3: and it's two colors on an entire play.

834
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like something like you know, in two

835
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: year olds make your food out of mud.

836
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 3: It's so brutal. Or the worst is like, look at

837
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 3: this beautiful party spread and you're like, oh.

838
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 2: Money, don't take don't you are those paper napkins? Yea?

839
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 3: Is it a plastic table cloth? I am the biggest

840
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 3: stob in the world. So if you think that I'm

841
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 3: going to look at an Instagram feed and not judge,

842
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 3: no I am. I am judge, jury executioner, Lady Justice.

843
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: I am a pcently lady host justice exactly all right. So,

844
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 3: but we had, like, you know, this beautiful thing on Instagram.

845
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: The basics of life, though, like getting rejected from colleges,

846
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 3: not being able to pay your rent, looking frumpy. Those

847
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 3: things aren't interesting unless you're an anti influence.

848
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

849
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 3: So around twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, she's at the height

850
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 3: of her Instagram, okay, and because of that, she secured

851
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 3: a six figure US book deal with Flat Iron Books

852
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 3: for a memoir that was supposed to be titled and

853
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 3: we were like and we were like multiple outlets. New

854
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 3: Yorker The Cut reported different amounts. The Cut said it

855
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 3: was three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars with a one

856
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars advance, so that brought it up to

857
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 3: four seventy five. Carolyn herself sometimes refers to it as

858
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 3: a five hundred thousand dollars book deal. All I can

859
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 3: say is that is insane. That's an insane Amountred thousand

860
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 3: dollars is an insane advance like this, Just we don't

861
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 3: see numbers like that, not.

862
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 2: In publishing, not anymore, not even like authors who actually

863
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: do write their books. I do have like a history

864
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: of writing books.

865
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 3: No, no, So the book was pitched as an expansion

866
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 3: of her Instagram captions. It was like coming of age

867
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 3: story right Instagram the Empire. It was set against her,

868
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: like romanticized Cambridge years. But the reason you haven't heard

869
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 3: about it it was never published. The deal fell apart

870
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 3: before the manuscript was delivered, so she had to return

871
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 3: what was left of the advance to Flatirn. And she

872
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: claimed that she walked away from it because the publishers

873
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 3: wanted to quote a cookie cutter memoir that didn't reflect

874
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: her true voice. But there's another account, one that painted

875
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 3: a different picture, that the project collapsed due to Carolyn's procrastination,

876
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 3: her chaotic process, her reluctance to edit or refine drafts.

877
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 3: Who told that side of the story.

878
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: Elizabeth told that side of the story, Thank.

879
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 3: You, Natalie Beach. She met Carolyn at Nyuka or Caroline

880
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 3: at Nyu. Beach has said that she ghost wrote many

881
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 3: of Caroline's long Instagram captions, the ones that like established

882
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 3: her dreamy, diaristic style. I can't get over ghostwriting Instagram captions.

883
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: I'm still thinking about ghostwriting the Whip, so i can't.

884
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 3: But like there's like the Lana del Rey of it

885
00:44:58,360 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 3: all is a little.

886
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: Jills bear verjacent.

887
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 3: It's very yeah, and but like ghost writing Instagram captions

888
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 3: come on as a.

889
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 2: Job as a job.

890
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 3: And then Beach said she also co authored the book

891
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 3: proposal that landed the deal, and that you know, Caroline

892
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 3: just handled the photos, the ideas, the editing, the vibe

893
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 3: she vibed out on it. To September of twenty nineteen,

894
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 3: Beach published I was Caroline Callaway in The Cut, and

895
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 3: the piece revealed their friendship, collaborative work, and then the eventual.

896
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 2: Fallouts like printing text messages and yeah, it.

897
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 3: Talked about like Caroline's manipulation, erratic behavior. She had all

898
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 3: these emotional episodes, like you know, she would allegedly threaten

899
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 3: to self harm if Beach pushed back on anything. There

900
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 3: was the strain Beach had of being uncredited while her

901
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 3: writing is like building this brand, and the essay became

902
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 3: The Cut's most read story of the year. Reignited interest

903
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 3: in the collapsed book deal. I remember reading it when

904
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 3: it came out.

905
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 2: Sound like this is so much and you said her name.

906
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 2: I was like, oh I remember this. Yeah.

907
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 3: So with no book deal, what's a gal to do?

908
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 2: I do not know Elizabeth.

909
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 3: I don't know either. So how can she make the

910
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 3: money to support her dreamy install lifestyle. I wouldn't know

911
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 3: what to do?

912
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: She knew what to show, how savvy girl.

913
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 3: She started holding things called creativity workshops.

914
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: Oh no.

915
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 3: She announced a creativity workshop tour in December of twenty eighteen,

916
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 3: and it was going to be this like multi city

917
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 3: road show. Is going to cost one hundred and sixty

918
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 3: five dollars a person, and attendees were promised creative guidance,

919
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 3: lunch care packages, personal letters, and fresh orchid crowns.

920
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: She's going to monetize her fan base.

921
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 3: Yes, the tour would hit cities like Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, DC. Yeah.

922
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 3: It really quickly began to fall apart. The first problem

923
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 3: is that she never booked the venues.

924
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me that right there?

925
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 3: That's a problem. Yeah, and then she ordered twelve hundred

926
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 3: Mason jars for the care packages. But she had no

927
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 3: place to store.

928
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: Them, so she did a total four seasons landscape.

929
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 3: Yes for the events.

930
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: Yes, and then she shows up with like, here's some

931
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: stuff I got at the Dollar Star.

932
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 3: She's not a logistics lady. So the press and critics

933
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 3: they drew parallels to the disaster of the fire festival,

934
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: Oh y, we need to do it. And under mounting

935
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 3: scrutiny from Twitter users like Kayleie Donaldson, who called it

936
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 3: a quote scam, Caroline announced cancelations and refunds, but despite

937
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 3: the chaos, she did hold two in person workshops, one

938
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 3: of which took place in Brooklyn. A reporter from New

939
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 3: York Magazine attended the event and shared a vivid account. Yes, Zarines,

940
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 3: I want you to picture it. You are an aspiring

941
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 3: Instagram influencer. Your feed is all hydro flasks and Chanel

942
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 3: shopping bags and sun dresses and of course you and

943
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 3: all of it. Standing in front of a field of sunflowers,

944
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: your hands shielding your eyes from the sun, facing out

945
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 3: to the ocean, wearing a suggestion of a swimsuit, holding

946
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,439
Speaker 3: up a peace sign at the color correct at sea.

947
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 3: You are a waif of a girl. You've got the

948
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 3: thy gap and the long brown hair meant for social

949
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 3: media stardom. You only have four seven hundred and forty

950
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 3: five followers. Though your feed is a little scattered, you

951
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 3: haven't seemed to lock into a real esthetic. You want

952
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 3: more than just the image. You want to create things.

953
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 3: You aren't sure what you want to be an entrepreneur.

954
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 3: You aren't one hundred percent sure what that means, but

955
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 3: it's what you want to that end. You've purchased a

956
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: ticket for Caroline Calloway's creativity workshop. You love her. She's everything.

957
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 3: She's so beautiful and stylish and witty and messy. You

958
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 3: wish you were her, and this would be the best

959
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 3: way to try and get as close to that happening

960
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 3: as possible. You took a couple trains to get to

961
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 3: Brooklyn early this morning. You walk up to a loft building,

962
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 3: triple checking the address on your phone with the one

963
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: on the building. This should be the place cars sit by.

964
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 3: People chat outside a coffee shop on their way to work.

965
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 3: You sit on a nearby stoop and wait. Pretty soon

966
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 3: people start showing up all manner of young white women

967
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 3: stream in from ride shares and public transportation and even

968
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 3: a bike. They are all impossibly cool in your estimation,

969
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 3: and you realize you are one of them, so you

970
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 3: must be cool too. You look up at the sky

971
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 3: to remember this moment when everything came together and your

972
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 3: journey truly started right here on the sidewalk in Brooklyn,

973
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: right here in the coolest place on earth. Your heart

974
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 3: is full, brimming with potential and serious bravitas of the moment.

975
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 3: Then a pigeon alights next to your shoe, hoops on

976
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 3: the sidewalk, coops and flies away. Wasn't supposed to go

977
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 3: like that? Those are yeazis. That was a close call.

978
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 3: Oh you saw Suddenly the door the loft swings Olga.

979
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: You get to a large open space and mingle with

980
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 3: the other attendees. You scan the crowd, but you can

981
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 3: see Caroline. You pour yourself a coffee with oat milk,

982
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 3: stroll through the root and listening in on conversations. One

983
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 3: woman tells another she came up from Florida. Another chimes

984
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 3: in that she's in town from Seattle. You pass a

985
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 3: woman talking about going to an Ivy League college with another.

986
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: Who's in nursing school.

987
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 3: They discuss the difficulty of juggling posting with studying. One

988
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 3: woman clears her throat and sings a high note. Apparently

989
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 3: she's trained to be an oppersit. That's a good angle.

990
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: You think to be cute and sing opera and wear

991
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 3: European designer clothes and travel to European cities and speak

992
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 3: various European languages, just like the europe of it all.

993
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 3: It's a good gimmick. As dreamy pop music plays, a

994
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 3: staffer hands you a personalized journal with your name on it.

995
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 3: You are prepared to cherish it forever. You also get

996
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 3: a tot, a candle, a crystal, and a mason jar

997
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 3: seated for a DIY garden. The event tickets said you'd

998
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 3: also get an orchid crown, the pinnacle of Instagram cool.

999
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 3: Not just a flower crown, an orchid crown. You ask

1000
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 3: about it and you're told there won't be crowns, but

1001
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 3: you will get one orchid to wear in your hair

1002
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 3: or pin to your top. You just have to make

1003
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 3: sure you return it before you leave. Suddenly, the room

1004
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 3: goes silent. Caroline has arrived. She's wearing a T shirt

1005
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 3: that says scammer under a cart again. Across one side

1006
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 3: of the room is a banner reading fire Festival in

1007
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 3: handcut aqua paper letters. Caroline playfully identifies and waves at

1008
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 3: the journalists present. She then declares that she won't allow

1009
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,919
Speaker 3: them to take photos with the orchids. For the next

1010
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 3: few hours, you break into groups of five or show

1011
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 3: and share your creations, poems, artwork that one woman sings

1012
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 3: an aara. You wrote a stream of consciousness paragraph about

1013
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 3: the beach. Caroline walks by as you read it and

1014
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 3: gives a nod, moving on to the next group. Soon

1015
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 3: the whole thing is over and you all spill out

1016
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 3: onto the street. You have to admit it was kind

1017
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 3: of a mess. That's Caroline. Knowing it's a mess and

1018
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 3: still feeling it was worth it makes you in on it.

1019
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 3: Caroline's in her presence, her authenticity content be damned. And then,

1020
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 3: like the end of Animal House, a text comes on

1021
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 3: the screen and it turns out you gave up on

1022
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 3: being an Instagram influencer. You moved to Florida and you

1023
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 3: got your real estate license. Good for you. There you go.

1024
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 3: The workshops were a bust that didn't stop Caroline. She

1025
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 3: held two workshops under a cheekier title, the aptly named

1026
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 3: the Scam. No press was invited for those, but one

1027
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 3: reporter did go undercover. Attendees were refunded if they were journalists,

1028
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 3: and some semblance of delivery took place, but still it

1029
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 3: was underwhelming. In April of twenty twenty, she responded to

1030
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 3: Beach's essay with I am Carolyn Calloway, and she self

1031
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 3: published it behind a paywall to raise money for COVID

1032
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 3: nineteen relief efforts. Raised nearly fifty grand that's how we

1033
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 3: people paid to read it. Then in twenty twenty three,

1034
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 3: she released her memoir called Scammer, and it's a collection

1035
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 3: of sixty seven vignettes, some new summ repurposed public and

1036
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 3: critical response was mixed, but you know, amused, intrigued. A

1037
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 3: guy from The New Yorker called it funny, engaging and

1038
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 3: full of genuine insight. Really yeah, she continued building a

1039
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 3: bizarre patchwork career. She joined OnlyFans in twenty twenty. Oh

1040
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:35,240
Speaker 3: and she sells literary themed softcore content and it apparently makes.

1041
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 2: A literary theme softcore on her body.

1042
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 3: No, so she does like cosplay of characters from stuff

1043
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 3: like Harry Potter, Matilda and Beauty and the Beast, basically

1044
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 3: like kid stuff. Oh and then there are partially undressed

1045
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 3: photographs of herself captioned with details of her father's autopsy.

1046
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,479
Speaker 3: What yeah, yeah, yeah, there it is. Apparently she makes

1047
00:53:58,480 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 3: a lot of money doing this.

1048
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone only apparently does. So.

1049
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 3: She went around saying in the interviews that she started

1050
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 3: her naked lady journey thanks to your alma mater, Playboy.

1051
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 2: Oh there you go, and according to her stuff.

1052
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, she said. The magazine commissioned a photoshoot of her

1053
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 3: addressed as a student in a library, but then Playboy

1054
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 3: released the statement saying quote, Playboy does not have and

1055
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 3: did not have any photoshoot planned with Caroline Calloway. Yeah. Oof.

1056
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 2: So.

1057
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty one, she launched a DIY skincare product that

1058
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 3: called snake Oil, and it was like grape seed and

1059
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 3: essential oils. Dermatologists were skeptical.

1060
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 2: If she leans into it, The hill Scammer shared sneak bar.

1061
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 2: She was like, you know what, you're.

1062
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 3: In on it, but you're still spending the money. But

1063
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 3: you know it doesn't matter, Like you could buy it

1064
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 3: and be in on the joke. That's what I get it.

1065
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty three, she relocated to Sarasota, Florida with her

1066
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 3: cat Matisse, where.

1067
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: Her grandfather had founded the town.

1068
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 3: October of twenty twenty four, she made headlines again, not

1069
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 3: for a scandal, but for refusing to evacuate during Hurricane

1070
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 3: Milton despite mandatory orders. So why didn't she evacuate? Well,

1071
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 3: she said she had trauma from her previous evacuation during

1072
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 3: Hurricane Ian. She also doesn't know how to drive, and

1073
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 3: the airports were closed. And then she posted updates from

1074
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 3: her house promising that her forthcoming book would come out

1075
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 3: quote if I survive yeah, and social media like she

1076
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 3: got the world's worst influencer. Yet here's the thing about

1077
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 3: Caroline Callaway. She embodies influencer culture's excess. I mean she

1078
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 3: had all this mess with like she was getting evicted,

1079
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 3: not paying a rent and it was just lawsuits against

1080
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 3: her for that persona though was outpacing substance. She had

1081
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 3: this painfully chaotic result. I am an agent of chaos,

1082
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 3: as you like to say, but I like that chaos

1083
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 3: to be organic. I just do one little thing to

1084
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 3: set it in motion. But I don't orchestra you see

1085
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 3: the earth with Yes, I want authentic chaos. So these influencers, like,

1086
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 3: are they con artists? Performance artists? Deeply troubled, you know,

1087
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 3: charismatic trying to navigate this brutal digital era. I'd like

1088
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 3: your thoughts on that, because that question is my takeaway.

1089
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1090
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: Oh okay, wow, that's quick. You know, like if you

1091
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 2: don't like trim a tree and then a tree limp

1092
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 2: falls on her person and hurts them, that seems to

1093
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 2: be her mess. Yes, it's not like you with the

1094
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 2: I seated the earth and this grew of the earth

1095
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 2: with the conditions of sunlight and water. It's like, oh,

1096
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,959
Speaker 2: let's see what pops up. This is more like where

1097
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 2: did that come from? Why didn't someone do their due

1098
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 2: diligence and trim this tree? And she's like, I'm just

1099
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 2: so messy.

1100
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 3: Well, and you know, messy people are entertaining to a certain.

1101
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 2: Yere right up. Util the mess is on you and.

1102
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 3: It gets exhausted.

1103
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 2: I sent you to the hospital or bankruptcy or.

1104
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 3: Yes, you know what I need. I need to talk back.

1105
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 3: That's my kind of social media.

1106
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 2: Oh oh my god, could you just see that? I

1107
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 2: led get.

1108
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 3: Hi, Zaron and Elizabeth, you want to hear something ridiculous.

1109
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: When I was in the Navy back in the early seventies,

1110
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: we used.

1111
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 2: To fly from Chicago to California, buy cors beer at

1112
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 2: five dollars a case, take it back to Chicago, and

1113
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 2: sell it for twenty dollars a case. Now that's ridiculous.

1114
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 2: You were doing smoking in the bandit in the air force.

1115
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: I love that, even though I don't like cors beer.

1116
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 3: How in the world was cores cheaper in California?

1117
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 2: Well, because you know, back then you couldn't get cores

1118
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: east of the Mississippi. The whole thing in the smoking

1119
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: the band it was legit. Like my father, I remember

1120
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 2: when we went to Colorado. We were driving to California

1121
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 2: and he was all excited to be able to get

1122
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: COR's beer.

1123
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 3: He's like, we're going to go in Colorado and California.

1124
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 3: I guess this is just fun.

1125
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because all you have to do is you

1126
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 2: go somewhere west and then you can fly somewhere back

1127
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 2: east and all of a sudden, now it's super valuable.

1128
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 2: We don't have that kind of regional fund anymore.

1129
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 3: Beer list, No, we really don't.

1130
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you.

1131
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 3: That's awesome, And that's it for today. You can find

1132
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 3: us online at Ridiculous Crime dot com. We just one

1133
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 3: lady Blogger of the seventeenth Century, awarded by Doanes Backpills

1134
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 3: It's pretty Big Deals, Aaron, don't laugh. We're also at

1135
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime on Blue Sky and Instagram all the sash halls.

1136
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 3: If you're on YouTube, It's Ridiculous Crime pod YouTube, Email

1137
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 3: us at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. Leave a

1138
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 3: talk back on the iHeart app, Please reach out. Ridiculous

1139
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 3: Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett, produced

1140
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 3: and edited by Chief Ridiculous Crime brand Ambassador Dave Cousten,

1141
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 3: starring Annals Rutger as Judith. Research is by travel influencer

1142
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 3: with two point eight million followers, Marisa Brown. The theme

1143
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 3: song is by Tummy t Enthusiast Thomas Lee and face

1144
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 3: Tuned flip Flop TikToker Travis Dunton. Post wardrobe is provided

1145
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 3: by Botany five hundred. Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot

1146
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 3: and mister Andre. Executive producers are feed curator Ben Boleen

1147
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 3: and professional Instagram real consultant Noel grind dis Crime Say

1148
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 3: It One More Time Geous Crime.

1149
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Four more podcasts

1150
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or

1151
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.