Speaker 1: So much has been reported about the magnitude of violence
Speaker 1: that these four victims suffered.
Speaker 2: Detectives have been provided with the results of those autopsies
Speaker 2: and determined that it was likely all four victims were asleep.
Speaker 3: In my experience, there is nothing bloodier than sharp force injury,
Speaker 3: particularly if you have multiple.
Speaker 4: This is the Idaho Masacer, a production of KT's Studios
Speaker 4: and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode one, Nightmare in Moscow. I'm
Speaker 4: Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker
Speaker 4: and Gabe Castillo. It's been one year, six months, four weeks,
Speaker 4: and one day since the senseless and brutal murders of
Speaker 4: Madison Mogen, Kaylee gonsalve As, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin,
Speaker 4: more than a year and a half since the victims
Speaker 4: had their lives cut short and their family, friends and
Speaker 4: community members had their lives irrevocably changed. In that time,
Speaker 4: a suspect has been brought into custody and pretrial hearings
Speaker 4: have occurred, shedding light on how the trial may pan out.
Speaker 4: Three point six million dollars has been spent to date
Speaker 4: by the State of Idaho and an alibi for the
Speaker 4: accused has been put on the courts record. Here's Stephanie.
Speaker 1: This particular case is everyone's worst nightmare. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like the scariest movie. It checks every terrifying box. Just
Speaker 1: imagine four incredible young adults at the most optimistic time.
Speaker 4: They had great friendships.
Speaker 1: Just ahead were finals and all of their firsts things
Speaker 1: like graduation, in first jobs, first love, and he did
Speaker 1: everything by the books. They went out in pairs, they
Speaker 1: were safe, they were inclusive, and they had many friends
Speaker 1: in and out of their house. Yet even then they
Speaker 1: were slaughtered one by one with a knife, so violent,
Speaker 1: so seemingly personal. This could have been an attack on
Speaker 1: any one of us, and for the accused. On the
Speaker 1: other side, Brian Coberger was a criminology PhD student. He
Speaker 1: was a scholar and also had his whole life ahead
Speaker 1: upwardly mobile and by all accounts, came from a really
Speaker 1: loving family. And can you imagine what it's like for
Speaker 1: his family. His father was a maintenance worker who went
Speaker 1: into debt putting his son through college. His mom worked
Speaker 1: at a Pennsylvania school assisting special need students, and he
Speaker 1: was the baby of their family, the only son.
Speaker 4: He had two older sisters.
Speaker 1: One of his sisters went on to be a mental
Speaker 1: health therapist who, by the way, lost her job because
Speaker 1: of her brother's arrest, and his other sister was an actress.
Speaker 1: The only thing really notable about that is that she
Speaker 1: was in a horror film where the plot line is
Speaker 1: a group of students are stabbed to death by a
Speaker 1: masked killer, and on the one hand, he says he
Speaker 1: is innocent, maybe he's just being targeted. Because if that's
Speaker 1: not the case, then this is the most sinister story
Speaker 1: ever told.
Speaker 4: Last season, a general overview was known of what happened
Speaker 4: the night of the murders. In the preceding months, a
Speaker 4: more chrysalized timeline of both the victims and the accused
Speaker 4: whereabouts has emerged. Saturday, November twelfth, twenty twenty two, was
Speaker 4: a celebratory day for many students at the University of Idaho.
Speaker 4: They were just sevent days away from break, looking forward
Speaker 4: to sitting down with family for Thanksgiving. On November twelfth,
Speaker 4: at eight o'clock PM, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle went
Speaker 4: to a party at Japin's fraternity Sigma Kai, a brunette
Speaker 4: beauty Twenty year old Xana was a junior majoring in marketing.
Speaker 4: Here's her sister, Jasmine, speaking at the memorial service held
Speaker 4: on December twod, twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: Sanah, you will not be forgotten. You have impacted so
Speaker 2: many lives and have given people so much love.
Speaker 4: For her high school graduation, Xana decorated her mortiboard with
Speaker 4: butterfly and flower cutouts and the words for the lives
Speaker 4: that I Will change. Twenty year old Ethan Chapin was
Speaker 4: a freshman majoring in sports management. He was a triplet
Speaker 4: whose brother and sister also attended the University of Idaho.
Speaker 4: Here's Ethan Chapin's mother. If everybody was like Ethan Chapin
Speaker 4: in this world, it would be a better place. Ethan's
Speaker 4: obituary states Ethan lived his best life. He loved the
Speaker 4: social life and j murals, and tolerated the academics. Xana
Speaker 4: and Ethan were couple many admired for their deep love
Speaker 4: of one another. One of Xana's two surviving roommates placed
Speaker 4: the pair at Ethan's fraternity party between nine pm and
Speaker 4: one forty five am Saturday, November twelfth, ten pm to
Speaker 4: one thirty am Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonzalvez were seen
Speaker 4: at the Corner Club bar in downtown Moscow, picked up
Speaker 4: by security footage. Madison Mogan was a twenty one year
Speaker 4: old senior from Cordelaine who was majoring in marketing. Her
Speaker 4: grandmother said she'd always been a caring person who kept
Speaker 4: many long term friendships and close ties with extended family.
Speaker 4: Here's Madison's boyfriend, Jake. Maddie was my best friend.
Speaker 2: She was the first person I talked to every morning,
Speaker 2: the last person I talked.
Speaker 4: To before bed. Madison was close with twenty one year
Speaker 4: old Kaylee Gonzalvez since the sixth grade. The pair, both
Speaker 4: beautiful blonde girls, looked more like sisters than friends. Twenty
Speaker 4: one year old Kaylee was a senior majoring in general
Speaker 4: studies and was in the Alpha Pi sorority. In fact,
Speaker 4: Kaylee had recently moved out of the house on King
Speaker 4: RhoD and only returned to show Mattie the car she'd bought.
Speaker 4: She planned to use it when she moved to Austin
Speaker 4: to start her life. Kaylee was just weeks away from graduating,
Speaker 4: and in Instagram post for Madison's twenty first birthday Kaylee
Speaker 4: posted pictures of the pair throughout their lives and wrote quote,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to be the main
Speaker 4: character in all my childhood stories. Madison replied, I love
Speaker 4: you more than life, my best friend forever and more.
Speaker 4: Here's Kaylee's father. These girls were absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 5: They came here together and in the end that they
Speaker 5: died together.
Speaker 4: In the early morning hours of Sunday, Nov. Number thirteenth,
Speaker 4: the temperature in Moscow, Idaho hybrid around twenty eight degrees.
Speaker 4: The air was thick with ice fog. At approximately one
Speaker 4: thirty am, Kaylee and Madison were seen at a downtown
Speaker 4: food truck. The grub truck located less than a quarter
Speaker 4: mile south of the bar they'd been at earlier, the
Speaker 4: Corner Club. Here's some audio of the footage captured on
Speaker 4: a Twitch live stream. It is the last known audio
Speaker 4: of the two best friends.
Speaker 2: Welcome back, dang hi, I would like the.
Speaker 3: Yep, so what you want to do?
Speaker 1: Is we actually.
Speaker 4: Cool?
Speaker 3: Thank you absolutely.
Speaker 4: Here's the exact timeline of this night. One am, According
Speaker 4: to a surviving roommate, Ethan and Xana returned from the
Speaker 4: fraternity party to Xanna's home at eleven twenty two King
Speaker 4: Road one fifty six am. Just eleven minutes later, Madison
Speaker 4: and Keighley left the food truck using their Sororities designated
Speaker 4: driving service. By two am, everyone was home for the night.
Speaker 4: Two forty two am, a cell phone connected to accused
Speaker 4: murderer Brian Coberger's home in Paulman, Washington, showed him leaving
Speaker 4: his apartment At the time of the murderers. Coburger was
Speaker 4: a twenty eight year old PhD criminology candidate at Washington
Speaker 4: State University. He was located approximately ten minutes from the
Speaker 4: University of Idaho. Cell Phone data showed the accused traveling
Speaker 4: south for five minutes until two forty seven am, at
Speaker 4: which point the phone stopped reporting to the network. The
Speaker 4: accused was driving a twenty fifteen white Hondai Atlantra. Three
Speaker 4: twenty nine am, a white sedan is seen passing by
Speaker 4: the victim's residence on King Road. Four o'clock am. Xana
Speaker 4: Kernodle receives a fast food delivery to the house. For
Speaker 4: four AM. There is another sighting of a white sedan
Speaker 4: driving down King Road past the residence. Four to twelve am.
Speaker 4: Xana is on her phone scrolling through social media. Four
Speaker 4: twenty am, a white sedan is seen leading the area
Speaker 4: at high speed. The accused phone appears to be turned
Speaker 4: back on and pink. South of Moscow, Idaho, on State
Speaker 4: Highway ninety five.
Speaker 6: The bodies of three women and one man, all twenty
Speaker 6: one or under, were found together over the weekend.
Speaker 1: The autopsy report reveals the victims were.
Speaker 4: Stabbed to death. Here's Stephanie.
Speaker 1: So much has been reported about the magnitude of violence
Speaker 1: that these four victims suffered, and everyone understands that what
Speaker 1: happened that night was an unparalleled tragedy. But here's what
Speaker 1: we know as a matter of fact. Taken from the
Speaker 1: arrest Affidavid, filed on December twenty ninth, twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4: Some portions of the eighteen page statement are redacted, including
Speaker 4: specific injuries sustained by the victims. It begins when investigators
Speaker 4: arrived at eleven twenty two King Road at approximately four
Speaker 4: o'clock PM on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. In an
Speaker 4: effort to understand the intricacies and protocols of scene security
Speaker 4: and processing of a crime scene, we reached out to
Speaker 4: forensic expert and host of the podcast Body Bags Joseph
Speaker 4: Scott Morgan. I asked Joseph what an officer is looking
Speaker 4: at or thinking about when they enter a scene for processing.
Speaker 4: Here's Joseph.
Speaker 3: It's hard to avert your eyes when you see evidence
Speaker 3: of extreme violence. In this case, you would have had
Speaker 3: copious amount of blood everywhere, and so as an investigator,
Speaker 3: thinking as horrible as that is, you have to maintain
Speaker 3: your vision here to separate the horror of what you're
Speaker 3: seeing from the practicality and where should I step? Where
Speaker 3: shouldn't I step? You know, you look obviously for a
Speaker 3: weapon or evidences of forced entry. If you've got sliding
Speaker 3: glass doors, have they been kicked in? And then I
Speaker 3: think from a security perspective and also an evidentiary perspective,
Speaker 3: you check the door, hopefully with a gloved hand. You
Speaker 3: haven't had a chance to look into hidden places at
Speaker 3: that point. Top, and there's the rub legally, because even
Speaker 3: though there's a homicide, you're still going to need a
Speaker 3: warrant to go in there and process the sea because
Speaker 3: apps in a warrant, anything that you collect in that
Speaker 3: environment suddenly is invalid. I'll give you a great example.
Speaker 3: If you've got like a foot locker or a chest
Speaker 3: of some kind. By law, when you go into a
Speaker 3: residence like this, even though they're dead bodies, you can't
Speaker 3: go opening those areas without a warrant, okay, So you
Speaker 3: have to get a warrant before you can go digging
Speaker 3: through chest of drawers or looking in what are generally
Speaker 3: referred to as hidden spaces. If there's a closet without
Speaker 3: with a door on it, for instance, you can from
Speaker 3: a safety perspective, the law allows you to open that
Speaker 3: door and say, is anybody in here? Flash or light
Speaker 3: because that's a reasonable place that you would find a
Speaker 3: victim and you're trying to assess it. But you can't
Speaker 3: go peeling through clothes and pulling out shoe boxes and
Speaker 3: all that sort of thing. So it seems vast, but
Speaker 3: there is a prescribed methodology for going through one of
Speaker 3: these scenes. Your job, after you've verified that people are
Speaker 3: in fact dead in that house is to secure it.
Speaker 3: No one else is to come in here, period, forget
Speaker 3: it until those that show up with a warrant and
Speaker 3: those that show up with the authority to investigate the
Speaker 3: scene arrive, and then you turn it over to them.
Speaker 4: At that point, the Affi David reads quote. Upon our arrival,
Speaker 4: the Idaho State Police forensic team was on scene and
Speaker 4: was preparing to begin processing the scene. Moscow Police Department
Speaker 4: Officer Smith, one of the initial responding officers to the incident,
Speaker 4: advised who would walk me through the scene? End quote.
Speaker 4: I asked Joseph Scott Morgan why it's important to be
Speaker 4: escorted through by an initial responding officer.
Speaker 3: You only get one first look at any scene, period,
Speaker 3: and the person that would have walked in and have
Speaker 3: found those bodies initially, they essentially have a roadmap in
Speaker 3: their brain at that point in tom because trust me,
Speaker 3: even for the most hardened of police officers, they're going
Speaker 3: to remember. But from a practical standpoint, when you have
Speaker 3: another individual that is high ranking, maybe has more responsibility,
Speaker 3: it is important that you walked through. And this is
Speaker 3: what is actually there's a term for this. This is
Speaker 3: called the initial walkthrough.
Speaker 4: Continuing with the Affi David quote, Officer Smith directed me
Speaker 4: down the hallway to the west bedroom on the second floor,
Speaker 4: which I later learned was Xannakernodle's end quote.
Speaker 1: Here again, Stephanie Xana Cernodle, age twenty, was in a
Speaker 1: sorority and loved her dog named she Shine. She was
Speaker 1: remembered by her family as always being positive, funny, and
Speaker 1: was loved by everyone. She and Ethan were in love
Speaker 1: and by all accounts, a solid couple.
Speaker 4: If David continues quote, as I approached the room, I
Speaker 4: could see a body later identified as Cernodles laying on
Speaker 4: the floor. Cernodle was deceased with wounds that appeared to
Speaker 4: have been caused by an edged weapon. End quote. I
Speaker 4: asked Joseph Scott Morgan what we could take away from
Speaker 4: this statement?
Speaker 3: So what we can learn from just that statement alone
Speaker 3: is that these wounds were so obvious that a person
Speaker 3: like this that doesn't see them day in and day out,
Speaker 3: they recognize that these are sharp horse injuries. And apparently
Speaker 3: they were so glaring that he had no trouble, you know,
Speaker 3: making that assessment. Zanna was where not in her bed.
Speaker 3: She was on the floor. So you have that question
Speaker 3: as an investigator, why is this young lady on the
Speaker 3: floor and not in the bed. That's an important point
Speaker 3: for investigators to get because if if you say that
Speaker 3: she was in her bed, that implies that she was
Speaker 3: attacked in her bed, killed in her bed. And not
Speaker 3: moved even in a post mortem state. Okay, now you
Speaker 3: would have to go back to the EMTs. I think
Speaker 3: that initially responded and the question you want to ask
Speaker 3: the EMT is okay, let me get this straight. Now,
Speaker 3: when you walked into this room, did you see this
Speaker 3: young woman on the floor or did you take her
Speaker 3: from the bed and place her on the floor, because,
Speaker 3: for instance, if she's unconscious, they're going to try to
Speaker 3: take life saving measures. Right, it's not a good idea
Speaker 3: to do chest compressions on a bed that gives you
Speaker 3: need a solid backing for that, and many times they
Speaker 3: will remove people and put them on the floor. Relative
Speaker 3: to her injuries, she did have an awareness because you know,
Speaker 3: we hear a lot in forensics about defensive wounds, okay,
Speaker 3: and sometimes they're mild. You know, you get bruises on
Speaker 3: the forearms, like in a blocking position, you can get
Speaker 3: stab wounds on the forearm. That's not what they're talking about.
Speaker 3: They're talking about a blade being drawn through the palm
Speaker 3: of her hand down to the point where and it
Speaker 3: has been stated this is not me saying it that
Speaker 3: her tendons were cut. So that is a robust injury
Speaker 3: to say, the very least with a very sharp edged weapon.
Speaker 3: So if you can draw a blade across the surface
Speaker 3: of a hand, you're not just breaking the epidermis or
Speaker 3: the dermis or the subke fat. You're going through muscle.
Speaker 3: You're going through structures. At that point in time, it's
Speaker 3: a deep, deep cut or cuts. And so that assessment
Speaker 3: is very important to make.
Speaker 4: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
Speaker 4: a moment. Continuing on with the Affidavid quote. Also in
Speaker 4: the room was a male later identified as Ethan Chapin.
Speaker 4: Chapin is also deceased with wounds later determined to be
Speaker 4: caused by sharp force injuries. End quote again Stephanie, followed
Speaker 4: by Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin was also twenty years old. He was actually
Speaker 1: the first born of triplets. His siblings also attend the
Speaker 1: University of Idaho. His mom said that he was the
Speaker 1: most incredible person you'll ever know, and according to his obituary,
Speaker 1: he lived his very best life in college.
Speaker 3: First off, we have to begin to think about his
Speaker 3: remains in relation to Zama's remains. Ethan's remains in relations
Speaker 3: Ethan's a big kid. He's robust. He's an athlete. You
Speaker 3: can only imagine when faced with an aggressor he would respond.
Speaker 3: So I think one of the questions we would have
Speaker 3: to ask is was he lying in bed asleep and
Speaker 3: he awoke as a result of his disturbance, covered the
Speaker 3: distance from the bed to the door, and there he's
Speaker 3: met Bonace Sealin. This seems to run contrary to even
Speaker 3: pressers that I have borne witness to, where it is
Speaker 3: stated in the presser that the victims were asleep.
Speaker 4: The presser or press conference Joseph refers to, took place
Speaker 4: on November twenty first, twenty twenty two, just one week
Speaker 4: after the multiple homicides. Here's Roger Laner. Moscow Police Department Operations.
Speaker 2: Captain detectives have been provided with the results of those
Speaker 2: autopsies and determined that it was likely all four victims
Speaker 2: were asleep during the attack.
Speaker 4: Some of the victims had defensive wounds. Again, Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 3: When you put that out there and you say that
Speaker 3: the victims were asleep where they asleep and died in
Speaker 3: their sleep, because I don't know. For me, my default
Speaker 3: position automatically is if you tell me that that's what
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Speaker 3: We've already got evidence that has been and clearly stated
Speaker 3: that Zanna was found on the floor. All right, if
Speaker 3: we can establish that she didn't commonly sleep on the floor,
Speaker 3: then you know that she had an awareness. Then you know,
Speaker 3: we think about Ethan lying in the doorway, Well, what
Speaker 3: does that mean? Does it actually mean that just the
Speaker 3: top of his head was lying on the threshold. Was
Speaker 3: he entirely out of the room and lying back into
Speaker 3: the bedroom? You know, and look, with both of these victims,
Speaker 3: I have to think that there was very intimate contact.
Speaker 3: Now I don't mean that in a sexual way. I
Speaker 3: mean that this is a tussle, this is a fight.
Speaker 3: So you think about contact trace evidences, that is transitioning
Speaker 3: between the assailant and the victims. And in what order
Speaker 3: did this happen? That's important to ask. It's not just
Speaker 3: the action of the killing. It's those moments, those perry
Speaker 3: mortem moments, which means in the midst of death, that
Speaker 3: are very compelling to me because you know that there
Speaker 3: had to be very intimate, up close and personal contact
Speaker 3: between the assailant and these victims.
Speaker 4: For further clarification. I asked Joseph about the significance of
Speaker 4: Ethan being reported found quote in the room in this
Speaker 4: report versus other reports we've read placing him in the doorway.
Speaker 3: Maybe it is semantics, but semantics aside. When this kind
Speaker 3: of information is released to the public, it's very confusing
Speaker 3: because it goes to confusion about the dynamic of the event.
Speaker 3: And remember, and this is very very important. There has
Speaker 3: yet to be a jury selected, and this data is
Speaker 3: out there. This information is out there, and this is
Speaker 3: kind of very specific information about the scene, very specific.
Speaker 3: You're not just talking about two victims here that died
Speaker 3: of sharp force inentry. Now we've discussed being on the floor,
Speaker 3: We've discussed specific injuries. That's very detailed information that has
Speaker 3: now jumped out from inside of that kind of protective
Speaker 3: investigative bubble. And so it might be semantics. However, it
Speaker 3: is important, and this is going to have to be explained,
Speaker 3: and it will be explained, that question will be asked.
Speaker 3: All of this is going to be on display in court.
Speaker 3: I don't know how far it will go, but it's
Speaker 3: certainly interesting because I was confused because from when I
Speaker 3: initially heard the presser that the chief gave. He plainly
Speaker 3: stated they were attacked while they were asleep. Okay, don't
Speaker 3: know what that means, but I tell you it doesn't
Speaker 3: necessarily marry up with the idea that one victim is
Speaker 3: lying in the doorway, another is on the floor adjacent
Speaker 3: to the bed.
Speaker 4: The affidavit continues quote. The third floor consisted of two
Speaker 4: bedrooms and one bathroom. The bedroom on the west side
Speaker 4: of the floor was later determined to be Kaylee Gonsabasis.
Speaker 4: I later learned there was a dog in the room.
Speaker 4: When my LESCo Police officers initially responded end to quote,
Speaker 4: I asked Joseph, if there's a standard protocol at a
Speaker 4: murder scene when a pet is present, when.
Speaker 3: You actually have an animal present at the same I've
Speaker 3: worked cases like this where you know, I remember one
Speaker 3: case in particular where had a cat that was super
Speaker 3: saturated in blood. As a matter of fact, they attracted
Speaker 3: it to blood and there were bloody pawprints everywhere. As
Speaker 3: a result of that, you would want to get that
Speaker 3: animal secured as quickly as possible. If you have a
Speaker 3: collar that has what appears to be blood evidence on it,
Speaker 3: whose blood was it, and that can go to sequence
Speaker 3: of events. If you find a collar and it's on
Speaker 3: the third floor of the home, but yet you find
Speaker 3: blood sample on that collar from individuals that are on
Speaker 3: the second floor of the home, how did that happen?
Speaker 3: How does that explain? So, yeah, you should treat that
Speaker 3: animal as if they are evidence, and they are evident.
Speaker 3: So the dog plays a crucial role.
Speaker 4: Once again from the affidavit quote. Officer Smith then pointed
Speaker 4: out a small bathroom on the east side of the
Speaker 4: third floor. This bathroom shared a wall with Madison Mogan's
Speaker 4: hereafter Mogan's bedroom, which was situated on the southeast corner
Speaker 4: of the third floor. As I entered the bedroom, I
Speaker 4: could see two females in the single bed in the room.
Speaker 4: Both Gonzalvez and Mogan were deceased with visible stab wounds.
Speaker 4: End quote. Here's Stephanie followed by Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1: To say that Mattie was loved by all is such
Speaker 1: an understatement. Mattie was known for her laugh in her
Speaker 1: offbeat sense of humor. Mattie was a waitress at the
Speaker 1: Mad Greek restaurant and was using her marketing skills to
Speaker 1: run a social media campaign for them. She planned to
Speaker 1: move to Boise after graduating in the spring. Kaylee and
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan were best friends since they were little girls.
Speaker 1: Kayley was the middle child of her family and she
Speaker 1: did absolutely everything she said her mind to. According to
Speaker 1: her family, Kally was the ultimate go getter and constantly
Speaker 1: was looking for an adventure. She had recently bought a
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen Range Rover and planned a trip to Europe,
Speaker 1: and she was expecting to move to Texas after graduation.
Speaker 3: Out of all the cases that I've handled over the
Speaker 3: course of my career, you're talking about trauma, and this
Speaker 3: includes even shotgun wounds. In my experience, there's nothing bloodier
Speaker 3: than sharp force injury, particularly if you have multiple and
Speaker 3: after a period of time, forgive me for saying this,
Speaker 3: but after a period of time, after someone has been
Speaker 3: deceased and they bled profusely, the blood will begin to
Speaker 3: coagulate and crust. It's hard to make sense of anything
Speaker 3: in low light circumstances, particularly if your first eyes on
Speaker 3: and in this case, i think, even when compared to
Speaker 3: Xana and Ethan, these two young women's bodies are contained.
Speaker 3: They're in a single space. So I'm not saying that
Speaker 3: it would be easy to process those bodies, but given
Speaker 3: the contained space that they're in, it wouldn't be as
Speaker 3: taxing I think for the investigator. And you can also
Speaker 3: begin to understand the dynamic I think a little bit
Speaker 3: of the event, because if you have blood on the
Speaker 3: bodies of those downstairs that has been transferred from those upstairs,
Speaker 3: that goes to sequencing because essentially, you know, if you're
Speaker 3: using the same weapon, you have the same person that's
Speaker 3: perpetrating this, and keep in mind, they're going to be
Speaker 3: super saturated with blood. I will stand by that comment.
Speaker 3: They're moving about and transferring all of this from person
Speaker 3: to person. The knife itself acts as almost like a
Speaker 3: method of inoculation with this blood, So you're introducing blood
Speaker 3: into other victims as you'd go down the tom lot.
Speaker 4: Here, the affidavit continues quote I also later noticed what
Speaker 4: appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath lying on
Speaker 4: the bed next to Mogan's right side when viewed from
Speaker 4: the door. The sheath was later processed and had the
Speaker 4: United States Marine Corps Eagle globe and Anchor insignia stamped
Speaker 4: on the outside of it. The Idaho Lab later located
Speaker 4: a single source of male DNA parentheses, suspect profile left
Speaker 4: on the button snap of the ninth sheaf end quote.
Speaker 4: Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in
Speaker 4: a moment. At this point in our interview, Joseph pulls
Speaker 4: out the exact same make and model knife and sheath
Speaker 4: that's alleged to be the murder weapon.
Speaker 3: That's a This is the exact weapon. It's the same
Speaker 3: one that was used.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: So this thing is like really heavy, it's very robust,
Speaker 3: very robust, and Courtney, right out of the box, I
Speaker 3: could have shaved my beard with this thing. It's that sharp,
Speaker 3: right out of the box. And you can see this
Speaker 3: one's got the it's got the USMC. That's what they've found.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: And this I think is where they recover the DNA from.
Speaker 3: And he may have wiped the whole damn thing down, okay,
Speaker 3: but the one place that he would not have accounted
Speaker 3: for is his button stamp. And if you drag your
Speaker 3: thumb across it like that, you're going to put skin
Speaker 3: cells in here. Because these people in the lab, Courtney,
Speaker 3: I got to tell you, they're pretty amazing. They consider
Speaker 3: things that you and I don't consider this is what
Speaker 3: we harvested from that area. And if he wipes that
Speaker 3: damn thing down, Let's just say he prepared before he
Speaker 3: got there, Okay, I thought about this, so he would
Speaker 3: be walking in with this like this, and I've always
Speaker 3: it almost seems Shakespearean. I've always envisioned him getting on
Speaker 3: that bed or standing at the end of the bed
Speaker 3: and maybe bumping the bed to wake them up. And
Speaker 3: he gets into this frenzy and he attacks him with
Speaker 3: a knife, and he's a sadist and he's inflicting pain,
Speaker 3: and in this frenzy he drops the sheath and I
Speaker 3: can only imagine he had an oh shit moment. I
Speaker 3: guarantee you when he rolled back to his apartment, He's like, wait,
Speaker 3: where is this thing? I got the knife, but I
Speaker 3: don't have the sheath. You know. I'm thinking he's got
Speaker 3: this going on in his mind, and at this point
Speaker 3: he's passed the rubicont.
Speaker 4: Our. Goals for this season are multi pronged. Here's Stephanie.
Speaker 1: We're going to unpack the facts, hopefully to better understand
Speaker 1: the law, search and seizure issues at play, how the
Speaker 1: demolition of the crime scene may or may not have
Speaker 1: impacted things moving forward. We want to contextualize what's been
Speaker 1: happening for family and friends in the wider community in
Speaker 1: the wake of such a tragedy, and we really want
Speaker 1: to understand the psychology what might shape the mind of
Speaker 1: a killer.
Speaker 4: This season on the Idaho massacre.
Speaker 3: What can you do with evil? You can exterminate it?
Speaker 3: Son here. Their alibi defense apparently is that he likes
Speaker 3: to drive around and see the moon and the stars.
Speaker 1: Do I buy it? No. We all like to believe
Speaker 1: in our hearts that if we come across somebody who's
Speaker 1: violent or dangerous, that we'd get a Spidey sense. Did
Speaker 1: you have that feeling that he was capable or off?
Speaker 1: To be honest, I never got any of those feelings.
Speaker 4: However, I do remember this one incident that.
Speaker 5: Happened social past, and psychopaths simply do not have a
Speaker 5: feeling when you hurt someone else. If you think about it,
Speaker 5: it makes him pretty much perfect killing mission.
Speaker 4: I was stuck in this cycle of Oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: what's going to happen next, What's going to happen next?
Speaker 4: Or could this happen to me?
Speaker 7: The underlying psychological phenomenon is that they are doing to
Speaker 7: themselves what the killer didn't do to them.
Speaker 3: Until the case is over, it seems nonsensical to say
Speaker 3: the least to destroy the building.
Speaker 6: Is there an immediacy for a jury going to a house?
Speaker 6: Psychologically speaking, I would say yes.
Speaker 1: This is a death penalty case because there were four
Speaker 1: people killed all at once in a really brutal manner.
Speaker 4: For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow
Speaker 4: us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masacre
Speaker 4: is produced by Stephanie Leideger, Gabriel Castillo, and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 4: Editing and sound design by Jeff Tooi music by Jared Aston.
Speaker 4: The Idaho Ascer is a production of KTI Studios and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4: For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.