WEBVTT - Nightmare in Moscow 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:06.960 So much has been reported about the magnitude of violence 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:08.720 that these four victims suffered. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:13.480 Detectives have been provided with the results of those autopsies 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:18.000 and determined that it was likely all four victims were asleep. 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.280 In my experience, there is nothing bloodier than sharp force injury, 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:25.400 particularly if you have multiple. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.040 This is the Idaho Masacer, a production of KT's Studios 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:44.120 and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode one, Nightmare in Moscow. I'm 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.080 Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:54.040 and Gabe Castillo. It's been one year, six months, four weeks, 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.680 and one day since the senseless and brutal murders of 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:02.960 Madison Mogen, Kaylee gonsalve As, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin, 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.000 more than a year and a half since the victims 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.640 had their lives cut short and their family, friends and 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:15.440 community members had their lives irrevocably changed. In that time, 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.840 a suspect has been brought into custody and pretrial hearings 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.640 have occurred, shedding light on how the trial may pan out. 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.160 Three point six million dollars has been spent to date 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:28.880 by the State of Idaho and an alibi for the 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:37.000 accused has been put on the courts record. Here's Stephanie. 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.960 This particular case is everyone's worst nightmare. It's kind of 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:45.560 like the scariest movie. It checks every terrifying box. Just 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:50.320 imagine four incredible young adults at the most optimistic time. 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:52.080 They had great friendships. 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.520 Just ahead were finals and all of their firsts things 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.240 like graduation, in first jobs, first love, and he did 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.400 everything by the books. They went out in pairs, they 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.640 were safe, they were inclusive, and they had many friends 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:10.120 in and out of their house. Yet even then they 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:16.400 were slaughtered one by one with a knife, so violent, 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:23.160 so seemingly personal. This could have been an attack on 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:25.760 any one of us, and for the accused. On the 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:30.160 other side, Brian Coberger was a criminology PhD student. He 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.880 was a scholar and also had his whole life ahead 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.040 upwardly mobile and by all accounts, came from a really 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.840 loving family. And can you imagine what it's like for 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.160 his family. His father was a maintenance worker who went 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.480 into debt putting his son through college. His mom worked 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.000 at a Pennsylvania school assisting special need students, and he 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.400 was the baby of their family, the only son. 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:53.320 He had two older sisters. 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:55.799 One of his sisters went on to be a mental 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.840 health therapist who, by the way, lost her job because 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.119 of her brother's arrest, and his other sister was an actress. 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.920 The only thing really notable about that is that she 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.960 was in a horror film where the plot line is 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.200 a group of students are stabbed to death by a 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.440 masked killer, and on the one hand, he says he 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.639 is innocent, maybe he's just being targeted. Because if that's 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.520 not the case, then this is the most sinister story 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:21.280 ever told. 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.160 Last season, a general overview was known of what happened 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.840 the night of the murders. In the preceding months, a 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:36.400 more chrysalized timeline of both the victims and the accused 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:41.360 whereabouts has emerged. Saturday, November twelfth, twenty twenty two, was 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.840 a celebratory day for many students at the University of Idaho. 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.120 They were just sevent days away from break, looking forward 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:54.400 to sitting down with family for Thanksgiving. On November twelfth, 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:57.920 at eight o'clock PM, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle went 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:02.040 to a party at Japin's fraternity Sigma Kai, a brunette 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.640 beauty Twenty year old Xana was a junior majoring in marketing. 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.920 Here's her sister, Jasmine, speaking at the memorial service held 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.240 on December twod, twenty twenty two. 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.800 Sanah, you will not be forgotten. You have impacted so 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.200 many lives and have given people so much love. 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:25.000 For her high school graduation, Xana decorated her mortiboard with 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:29.080 butterfly and flower cutouts and the words for the lives 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.680 that I Will change. Twenty year old Ethan Chapin was 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.240 a freshman majoring in sports management. He was a triplet 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.640 whose brother and sister also attended the University of Idaho. 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.680 Here's Ethan Chapin's mother. If everybody was like Ethan Chapin 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:51.240 in this world, it would be a better place. Ethan's 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:55.039 obituary states Ethan lived his best life. He loved the 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:59.159 social life and j murals, and tolerated the academics. Xana 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.240 and Ethan were couple many admired for their deep love 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:06.080 of one another. One of Xana's two surviving roommates placed 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:10.320 the pair at Ethan's fraternity party between nine pm and 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:15.719 one forty five am Saturday, November twelfth, ten pm to 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:21.599 one thirty am Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonzalvez were seen 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.800 at the Corner Club bar in downtown Moscow, picked up 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.720 by security footage. Madison Mogan was a twenty one year 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.400 old senior from Cordelaine who was majoring in marketing. Her 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.440 grandmother said she'd always been a caring person who kept 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.200 many long term friendships and close ties with extended family. 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:45.600 Here's Madison's boyfriend, Jake. Maddie was my best friend. 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.680 She was the first person I talked to every morning, 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.120 the last person I talked. 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:56.280 To before bed. Madison was close with twenty one year 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.279 old Kaylee Gonzalvez since the sixth grade. The pair, both 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:07.400 beautiful blonde girls, looked more like sisters than friends. Twenty 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.200 one year old Kaylee was a senior majoring in general 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.800 studies and was in the Alpha Pi sorority. In fact, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.480 Kaylee had recently moved out of the house on King 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.040 RhoD and only returned to show Mattie the car she'd bought. 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.440 She planned to use it when she moved to Austin 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:27.080 to start her life. Kaylee was just weeks away from graduating, 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.760 and in Instagram post for Madison's twenty first birthday Kaylee 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.200 posted pictures of the pair throughout their lives and wrote quote, 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.720 I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to be the main 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:42.760 character in all my childhood stories. Madison replied, I love 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.640 you more than life, my best friend forever and more. 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.799 Here's Kaylee's father. These girls were absolutely beautiful. 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.600 They came here together and in the end that they 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:55.600 died together. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.960 In the early morning hours of Sunday, Nov. Number thirteenth, 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.640 the temperature in Moscow, Idaho hybrid around twenty eight degrees. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.320 The air was thick with ice fog. At approximately one 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.880 thirty am, Kaylee and Madison were seen at a downtown 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.240 food truck. The grub truck located less than a quarter 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.720 mile south of the bar they'd been at earlier, the 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.280 Corner Club. Here's some audio of the footage captured on 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:26.200 a Twitch live stream. It is the last known audio 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:27.600 of the two best friends. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:37.040 Welcome back, dang hi, I would like the. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:44.480 Yep, so what you want to do? 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:46.960 Is we actually. 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:50.640 Cool? 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:51.800 Thank you absolutely. 0:07:54.160 --> 0:08:02.120 Here's the exact timeline of this night. One am, According 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.280 to a surviving roommate, Ethan and Xana returned from the 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:09.320 fraternity party to Xanna's home at eleven twenty two King 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:16.280 Road one fifty six am. Just eleven minutes later, Madison 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.480 and Keighley left the food truck using their Sororities designated 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.720 driving service. By two am, everyone was home for the night. 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.960 Two forty two am, a cell phone connected to accused 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.880 murderer Brian Coberger's home in Paulman, Washington, showed him leaving 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.280 his apartment At the time of the murderers. Coburger was 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.960 a twenty eight year old PhD criminology candidate at Washington 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:44.400 State University. He was located approximately ten minutes from the 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.880 University of Idaho. Cell Phone data showed the accused traveling 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.679 south for five minutes until two forty seven am, at 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.880 which point the phone stopped reporting to the network. The 0:08:56.000 --> 0:09:01.480 accused was driving a twenty fifteen white Hondai Atlantra. Three 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.400 twenty nine am, a white sedan is seen passing by 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:11.000 the victim's residence on King Road. Four o'clock am. Xana 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.719 Kernodle receives a fast food delivery to the house. For 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.840 four AM. There is another sighting of a white sedan 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:24.959 driving down King Road past the residence. Four to twelve am. 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:29.280 Xana is on her phone scrolling through social media. Four 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.280 twenty am, a white sedan is seen leading the area 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:37.520 at high speed. The accused phone appears to be turned 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.079 back on and pink. South of Moscow, Idaho, on State 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:42.320 Highway ninety five. 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.480 The bodies of three women and one man, all twenty 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.320 one or under, were found together over the weekend. 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.679 The autopsy report reveals the victims were. 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.000 Stabbed to death. Here's Stephanie. 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.640 So much has been reported about the magnitude of violence 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.440 that these four victims suffered, and everyone understands that what 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.720 happened that night was an unparalleled tragedy. But here's what 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:14.600 we know as a matter of fact. Taken from the 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:19.240 arrest Affidavid, filed on December twenty ninth, twenty twenty two. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.880 Some portions of the eighteen page statement are redacted, including 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:31.079 specific injuries sustained by the victims. It begins when investigators 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.000 arrived at eleven twenty two King Road at approximately four 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:42.000 o'clock PM on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. In an 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.479 effort to understand the intricacies and protocols of scene security 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.480 and processing of a crime scene, we reached out to 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.000 forensic expert and host of the podcast Body Bags Joseph 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.360 Scott Morgan. I asked Joseph what an officer is looking 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.280 at or thinking about when they enter a scene for processing. 0:10:58.800 --> 0:10:59.559 Here's Joseph. 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.760 It's hard to avert your eyes when you see evidence 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:09.559 of extreme violence. In this case, you would have had 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.079 copious amount of blood everywhere, and so as an investigator, 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.480 thinking as horrible as that is, you have to maintain 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:22.400 your vision here to separate the horror of what you're 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:27.080 seeing from the practicality and where should I step? Where 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.520 shouldn't I step? You know, you look obviously for a 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.480 weapon or evidences of forced entry. If you've got sliding 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.520 glass doors, have they been kicked in? And then I 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:41.199 think from a security perspective and also an evidentiary perspective, 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.440 you check the door, hopefully with a gloved hand. You 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:49.360 haven't had a chance to look into hidden places at 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.960 that point. Top, and there's the rub legally, because even 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.520 though there's a homicide, you're still going to need a 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.040 warrant to go in there and process the sea because 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.000 apps in a warrant, anything that you collect in that 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.559 environment suddenly is invalid. I'll give you a great example. 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.680 If you've got like a foot locker or a chest 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.200 of some kind. By law, when you go into a 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.640 residence like this, even though they're dead bodies, you can't 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:20.080 go opening those areas without a warrant, okay, So you 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.640 have to get a warrant before you can go digging 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.840 through chest of drawers or looking in what are generally 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:31.079 referred to as hidden spaces. If there's a closet without 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.240 with a door on it, for instance, you can from 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:36.840 a safety perspective, the law allows you to open that 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.120 door and say, is anybody in here? Flash or light 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.480 because that's a reasonable place that you would find a 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.720 victim and you're trying to assess it. But you can't 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.760 go peeling through clothes and pulling out shoe boxes and 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.040 all that sort of thing. So it seems vast, but 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.560 there is a prescribed methodology for going through one of 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:00.080 these scenes. Your job, after you've verified that people are 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.080 in fact dead in that house is to secure it. 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.480 No one else is to come in here, period, forget 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.120 it until those that show up with a warrant and 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.400 those that show up with the authority to investigate the 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.480 scene arrive, and then you turn it over to them. 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:22.800 At that point, the Affi David reads quote. Upon our arrival, 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.920 the Idaho State Police forensic team was on scene and 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.880 was preparing to begin processing the scene. Moscow Police Department 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:33.680 Officer Smith, one of the initial responding officers to the incident, 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.000 advised who would walk me through the scene? End quote. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.880 I asked Joseph Scott Morgan why it's important to be 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.680 escorted through by an initial responding officer. 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:51.080 You only get one first look at any scene, period, 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.880 and the person that would have walked in and have 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:59.320 found those bodies initially, they essentially have a roadmap in 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.800 their brain at that point in tom because trust me, 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.920 even for the most hardened of police officers, they're going 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.080 to remember. But from a practical standpoint, when you have 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:15.040 another individual that is high ranking, maybe has more responsibility, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.360 it is important that you walked through. And this is 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.600 what is actually there's a term for this. This is 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.040 called the initial walkthrough. 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:30.600 Continuing with the Affi David quote, Officer Smith directed me 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.680 down the hallway to the west bedroom on the second floor, 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.960 which I later learned was Xannakernodle's end quote. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:44.600 Here again, Stephanie Xana Cernodle, age twenty, was in a 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.240 sorority and loved her dog named she Shine. She was 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.040 remembered by her family as always being positive, funny, and 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.240 was loved by everyone. She and Ethan were in love 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.600 and by all accounts, a solid couple. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:05.320 If David continues quote, as I approached the room, I 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.440 could see a body later identified as Cernodles laying on 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.720 the floor. Cernodle was deceased with wounds that appeared to 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:17.760 have been caused by an edged weapon. End quote. I 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.440 asked Joseph Scott Morgan what we could take away from 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:21.040 this statement? 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.680 So what we can learn from just that statement alone 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.600 is that these wounds were so obvious that a person 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.040 like this that doesn't see them day in and day out, 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:37.520 they recognize that these are sharp horse injuries. And apparently 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.640 they were so glaring that he had no trouble, you know, 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:46.560 making that assessment. Zanna was where not in her bed. 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.080 She was on the floor. So you have that question 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.800 as an investigator, why is this young lady on the 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.640 floor and not in the bed. That's an important point 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.360 for investigators to get because if if you say that 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.960 she was in her bed, that implies that she was 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.480 attacked in her bed, killed in her bed. And not 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.960 moved even in a post mortem state. Okay, now you 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.040 would have to go back to the EMTs. I think 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.520 that initially responded and the question you want to ask 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.640 the EMT is okay, let me get this straight. Now, 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.240 when you walked into this room, did you see this 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.760 young woman on the floor or did you take her 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:28.920 from the bed and place her on the floor, because, 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.840 for instance, if she's unconscious, they're going to try to 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.000 take life saving measures. Right, it's not a good idea 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.200 to do chest compressions on a bed that gives you 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.000 need a solid backing for that, and many times they 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.600 will remove people and put them on the floor. Relative 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.880 to her injuries, she did have an awareness because you know, 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:51.040 we hear a lot in forensics about defensive wounds, okay, 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:55.240 and sometimes they're mild. You know, you get bruises on 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.640 the forearms, like in a blocking position, you can get 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.720 stab wounds on the forearm. That's not what they're talking about. 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.320 They're talking about a blade being drawn through the palm 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.480 of her hand down to the point where and it 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.199 has been stated this is not me saying it that 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:15.720 her tendons were cut. So that is a robust injury 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:20.440 to say, the very least with a very sharp edged weapon. 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.560 So if you can draw a blade across the surface 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.919 of a hand, you're not just breaking the epidermis or 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.800 the dermis or the subke fat. You're going through muscle. 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.480 You're going through structures. At that point in time, it's 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.040 a deep, deep cut or cuts. And so that assessment 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:37.240 is very important to make. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.359 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:55.800 a moment. Continuing on with the Affidavid quote. Also in 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.919 the room was a male later identified as Ethan Chapin. 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.879 Chapin is also deceased with wounds later determined to be 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:10.760 caused by sharp force injuries. End quote again Stephanie, followed 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:11.959 by Joseph Scott Morgan. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.320 Ethan Chapin was also twenty years old. He was actually 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:19.560 the first born of triplets. His siblings also attend the 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.920 University of Idaho. His mom said that he was the 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.720 most incredible person you'll ever know, and according to his obituary, 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.200 he lived his very best life in college. 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.160 First off, we have to begin to think about his 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.960 remains in relation to Zama's remains. Ethan's remains in relations 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.919 Ethan's a big kid. He's robust. He's an athlete. You 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.879 can only imagine when faced with an aggressor he would respond. 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.280 So I think one of the questions we would have 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:51.320 to ask is was he lying in bed asleep and 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.919 he awoke as a result of his disturbance, covered the 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.520 distance from the bed to the door, and there he's 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:02.200 met Bonace Sealin. This seems to run contrary to even 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:06.520 pressers that I have borne witness to, where it is 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.119 stated in the presser that the victims were asleep. 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.800 The presser or press conference Joseph refers to, took place 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.080 on November twenty first, twenty twenty two, just one week 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:24.199 after the multiple homicides. Here's Roger Laner. Moscow Police Department Operations. 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.760 Captain detectives have been provided with the results of those 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:32.280 autopsies and determined that it was likely all four victims 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.320 were asleep during the attack. 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:40.080 Some of the victims had defensive wounds. Again, Joseph Scott Morgan. 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.160 When you put that out there and you say that 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:50.199 the victims were asleep where they asleep and died in 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.240 their sleep, because I don't know. For me, my default 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.800 position automatically is if you tell me that that's what 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.080 I'm thinking, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.920 We've already got evidence that has been and clearly stated 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.560 that Zanna was found on the floor. All right, if 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.600 we can establish that she didn't commonly sleep on the floor, 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:12.040 then you know that she had an awareness. Then you know, 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:17.600 we think about Ethan lying in the doorway, Well, what 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.000 does that mean? Does it actually mean that just the 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.600 top of his head was lying on the threshold. Was 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.399 he entirely out of the room and lying back into 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:31.280 the bedroom? You know, and look, with both of these victims, 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:35.760 I have to think that there was very intimate contact. 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:37.800 Now I don't mean that in a sexual way. I 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.680 mean that this is a tussle, this is a fight. 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:46.360 So you think about contact trace evidences, that is transitioning 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.640 between the assailant and the victims. And in what order 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.080 did this happen? That's important to ask. It's not just 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:59.240 the action of the killing. It's those moments, those perry 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:03.120 mortem moments, which means in the midst of death, that 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.120 are very compelling to me because you know that there 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:10.560 had to be very intimate, up close and personal contact 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.440 between the assailant and these victims. 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.840 For further clarification. I asked Joseph about the significance of 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.280 Ethan being reported found quote in the room in this 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:25.320 report versus other reports we've read placing him in the doorway. 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:32.080 Maybe it is semantics, but semantics aside. When this kind 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:35.440 of information is released to the public, it's very confusing 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:40.399 because it goes to confusion about the dynamic of the event. 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.479 And remember, and this is very very important. There has 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.199 yet to be a jury selected, and this data is 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:49.240 out there. This information is out there, and this is 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:53.280 kind of very specific information about the scene, very specific. 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.000 You're not just talking about two victims here that died 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:00.359 of sharp force inentry. Now we've discussed being on the floor, 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:05.800 We've discussed specific injuries. That's very detailed information that has 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:09.360 now jumped out from inside of that kind of protective 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:15.000 investigative bubble. And so it might be semantics. However, it 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.720 is important, and this is going to have to be explained, 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:21.600 and it will be explained, that question will be asked. 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:23.680 All of this is going to be on display in court. 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.040 I don't know how far it will go, but it's 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:29.520 certainly interesting because I was confused because from when I 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:33.480 initially heard the presser that the chief gave. He plainly 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:36.640 stated they were attacked while they were asleep. Okay, don't 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:39.159 know what that means, but I tell you it doesn't 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:41.840 necessarily marry up with the idea that one victim is 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.200 lying in the doorway, another is on the floor adjacent 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:44.640 to the bed. 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:51.280 The affidavit continues quote. The third floor consisted of two 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.200 bedrooms and one bathroom. The bedroom on the west side 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:57.240 of the floor was later determined to be Kaylee Gonsabasis. 0:22:57.880 --> 0:22:59.640 I later learned there was a dog in the room. 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:04.600 When my LESCo Police officers initially responded end to quote, 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:09.359 I asked Joseph, if there's a standard protocol at a 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.760 murder scene when a pet is present, when. 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:15.600 You actually have an animal present at the same I've 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.640 worked cases like this where you know, I remember one 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:23.320 case in particular where had a cat that was super 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.040 saturated in blood. As a matter of fact, they attracted 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.120 it to blood and there were bloody pawprints everywhere. As 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.000 a result of that, you would want to get that 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.639 animal secured as quickly as possible. If you have a 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:39.520 collar that has what appears to be blood evidence on it, 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:42.400 whose blood was it, and that can go to sequence 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:46.840 of events. If you find a collar and it's on 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:49.120 the third floor of the home, but yet you find 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:51.960 blood sample on that collar from individuals that are on 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.439 the second floor of the home, how did that happen? 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:57.520 How does that explain? So, yeah, you should treat that 0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:01.240 animal as if they are evidence, and they are evident. 0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:03.359 So the dog plays a crucial role. 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:12.119 Once again from the affidavit quote. Officer Smith then pointed 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:14.000 out a small bathroom on the east side of the 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:17.639 third floor. This bathroom shared a wall with Madison Mogan's 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:21.840 hereafter Mogan's bedroom, which was situated on the southeast corner 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:24.600 of the third floor. As I entered the bedroom, I 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:27.359 could see two females in the single bed in the room. 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.520 Both Gonzalvez and Mogan were deceased with visible stab wounds. 0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:39.440 End quote. Here's Stephanie followed by Joseph Scott Morgan. 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:43.800 To say that Mattie was loved by all is such 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:47.120 an understatement. Mattie was known for her laugh in her 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:50.359 offbeat sense of humor. Mattie was a waitress at the 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:53.639 Mad Greek restaurant and was using her marketing skills to 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:56.879 run a social media campaign for them. She planned to 0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:00.800 move to Boise after graduating in the spring. Kaylee and 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:03.919 Madison Mogan were best friends since they were little girls. 0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:06.879 Kayley was the middle child of her family and she 0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:10.399 did absolutely everything she said her mind to. According to 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:13.679 her family, Kally was the ultimate go getter and constantly 0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:16.560 was looking for an adventure. She had recently bought a 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:19.520 twenty sixteen Range Rover and planned a trip to Europe, 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:22.720 and she was expecting to move to Texas after graduation. 0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:25.480 Out of all the cases that I've handled over the 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:28.800 course of my career, you're talking about trauma, and this 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:33.560 includes even shotgun wounds. In my experience, there's nothing bloodier 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:37.639 than sharp force injury, particularly if you have multiple and 0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:39.680 after a period of time, forgive me for saying this, 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:42.000