1 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: So much has been reported about the magnitude of violence 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: that these four victims suffered. 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: Detectives have been provided with the results of those autopsies 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 2: and determined that it was likely all four victims were asleep. 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 3: In my experience, there is nothing bloodier than sharp force injury, 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 3: particularly if you have multiple. 7 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 4: This is the Idaho Masacer, a production of KT's Studios 8 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 4: and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode one, Nightmare in Moscow. I'm 9 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 4: Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker 10 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 4: and Gabe Castillo. It's been one year, six months, four weeks, 11 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 4: and one day since the senseless and brutal murders of 12 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 4: Madison Mogen, Kaylee gonsalve As, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin, 13 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 4: more than a year and a half since the victims 14 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 4: had their lives cut short and their family, friends and 15 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 4: community members had their lives irrevocably changed. In that time, 16 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 4: a suspect has been brought into custody and pretrial hearings 17 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 4: have occurred, shedding light on how the trial may pan out. 18 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 4: Three point six million dollars has been spent to date 19 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 4: by the State of Idaho and an alibi for the 20 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 4: accused has been put on the courts record. Here's Stephanie. 21 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: This particular case is everyone's worst nightmare. It's kind of 22 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: like the scariest movie. It checks every terrifying box. Just 23 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: imagine four incredible young adults at the most optimistic time. 24 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 4: They had great friendships. 25 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: Just ahead were finals and all of their firsts things 26 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: like graduation, in first jobs, first love, and he did 27 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: everything by the books. They went out in pairs, they 28 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: were safe, they were inclusive, and they had many friends 29 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: in and out of their house. Yet even then they 30 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: were slaughtered one by one with a knife, so violent, 31 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: so seemingly personal. This could have been an attack on 32 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: any one of us, and for the accused. On the 33 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: other side, Brian Coberger was a criminology PhD student. He 34 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: was a scholar and also had his whole life ahead 35 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: upwardly mobile and by all accounts, came from a really 36 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: loving family. And can you imagine what it's like for 37 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: his family. His father was a maintenance worker who went 38 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: into debt putting his son through college. His mom worked 39 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: at a Pennsylvania school assisting special need students, and he 40 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: was the baby of their family, the only son. 41 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 4: He had two older sisters. 42 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: One of his sisters went on to be a mental 43 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: health therapist who, by the way, lost her job because 44 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 1: of her brother's arrest, and his other sister was an actress. 45 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: The only thing really notable about that is that she 46 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: was in a horror film where the plot line is 47 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: a group of students are stabbed to death by a 48 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: masked killer, and on the one hand, he says he 49 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: is innocent, maybe he's just being targeted. Because if that's 50 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: not the case, then this is the most sinister story 51 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: ever told. 52 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 4: Last season, a general overview was known of what happened 53 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 4: the night of the murders. In the preceding months, a 54 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 4: more chrysalized timeline of both the victims and the accused 55 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 4: whereabouts has emerged. Saturday, November twelfth, twenty twenty two, was 56 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 4: a celebratory day for many students at the University of Idaho. 57 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 4: They were just sevent days away from break, looking forward 58 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 4: to sitting down with family for Thanksgiving. On November twelfth, 59 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 4: at eight o'clock PM, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle went 60 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 4: to a party at Japin's fraternity Sigma Kai, a brunette 61 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 4: beauty Twenty year old Xana was a junior majoring in marketing. 62 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 4: Here's her sister, Jasmine, speaking at the memorial service held 63 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 4: on December twod, twenty twenty two. 64 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: Sanah, you will not be forgotten. You have impacted so 65 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: many lives and have given people so much love. 66 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 4: For her high school graduation, Xana decorated her mortiboard with 67 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 4: butterfly and flower cutouts and the words for the lives 68 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 4: that I Will change. Twenty year old Ethan Chapin was 69 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 4: a freshman majoring in sports management. He was a triplet 70 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 4: whose brother and sister also attended the University of Idaho. 71 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 4: Here's Ethan Chapin's mother. If everybody was like Ethan Chapin 72 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 4: in this world, it would be a better place. Ethan's 73 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 4: obituary states Ethan lived his best life. He loved the 74 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 4: social life and j murals, and tolerated the academics. Xana 75 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 4: and Ethan were couple many admired for their deep love 76 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 4: of one another. One of Xana's two surviving roommates placed 77 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 4: the pair at Ethan's fraternity party between nine pm and 78 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 4: one forty five am Saturday, November twelfth, ten pm to 79 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 4: one thirty am Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonzalvez were seen 80 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 4: at the Corner Club bar in downtown Moscow, picked up 81 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 4: by security footage. Madison Mogan was a twenty one year 82 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 4: old senior from Cordelaine who was majoring in marketing. Her 83 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 4: grandmother said she'd always been a caring person who kept 84 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 4: many long term friendships and close ties with extended family. 85 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 4: Here's Madison's boyfriend, Jake. Maddie was my best friend. 86 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: She was the first person I talked to every morning, 87 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: the last person I talked. 88 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 4: To before bed. Madison was close with twenty one year 89 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 4: old Kaylee Gonzalvez since the sixth grade. The pair, both 90 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 4: beautiful blonde girls, looked more like sisters than friends. Twenty 91 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 4: one year old Kaylee was a senior majoring in general 92 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 4: studies and was in the Alpha Pi sorority. In fact, 93 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 4: Kaylee had recently moved out of the house on King 94 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 4: RhoD and only returned to show Mattie the car she'd bought. 95 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 4: She planned to use it when she moved to Austin 96 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 4: to start her life. Kaylee was just weeks away from graduating, 97 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 4: and in Instagram post for Madison's twenty first birthday Kaylee 98 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 4: posted pictures of the pair throughout their lives and wrote quote, 99 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 4: I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to be the main 100 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 4: character in all my childhood stories. Madison replied, I love 101 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 4: you more than life, my best friend forever and more. 102 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 4: Here's Kaylee's father. These girls were absolutely beautiful. 103 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 5: They came here together and in the end that they 104 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 5: died together. 105 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 4: In the early morning hours of Sunday, Nov. Number thirteenth, 106 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 4: the temperature in Moscow, Idaho hybrid around twenty eight degrees. 107 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 4: The air was thick with ice fog. At approximately one 108 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 4: thirty am, Kaylee and Madison were seen at a downtown 109 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 4: food truck. The grub truck located less than a quarter 110 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 4: mile south of the bar they'd been at earlier, the 111 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 4: Corner Club. Here's some audio of the footage captured on 112 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 4: a Twitch live stream. It is the last known audio 113 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 4: of the two best friends. 114 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 2: Welcome back, dang hi, I would like the. 115 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 3: Yep, so what you want to do? 116 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: Is we actually. 117 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 4: Cool? 118 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 3: Thank you absolutely. 119 00:07:54,160 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 4: Here's the exact timeline of this night. One am, According 120 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 4: to a surviving roommate, Ethan and Xana returned from the 121 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 4: fraternity party to Xanna's home at eleven twenty two King 122 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 4: Road one fifty six am. Just eleven minutes later, Madison 123 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 4: and Keighley left the food truck using their Sororities designated 124 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 4: driving service. By two am, everyone was home for the night. 125 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 4: Two forty two am, a cell phone connected to accused 126 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 4: murderer Brian Coberger's home in Paulman, Washington, showed him leaving 127 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 4: his apartment At the time of the murderers. Coburger was 128 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 4: a twenty eight year old PhD criminology candidate at Washington 129 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 4: State University. He was located approximately ten minutes from the 130 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: University of Idaho. Cell Phone data showed the accused traveling 131 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 4: south for five minutes until two forty seven am, at 132 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 4: which point the phone stopped reporting to the network. The 133 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 4: accused was driving a twenty fifteen white Hondai Atlantra. Three 134 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 4: twenty nine am, a white sedan is seen passing by 135 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 4: the victim's residence on King Road. Four o'clock am. Xana 136 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 4: Kernodle receives a fast food delivery to the house. For 137 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 4: four AM. There is another sighting of a white sedan 138 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 4: driving down King Road past the residence. Four to twelve am. 139 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 4: Xana is on her phone scrolling through social media. Four 140 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 4: twenty am, a white sedan is seen leading the area 141 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 4: at high speed. The accused phone appears to be turned 142 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 4: back on and pink. South of Moscow, Idaho, on State 143 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 4: Highway ninety five. 144 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 6: The bodies of three women and one man, all twenty 145 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 6: one or under, were found together over the weekend. 146 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: The autopsy report reveals the victims were. 147 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 4: Stabbed to death. Here's Stephanie. 148 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: So much has been reported about the magnitude of violence 149 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: that these four victims suffered, and everyone understands that what 150 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: happened that night was an unparalleled tragedy. But here's what 151 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: we know as a matter of fact. Taken from the 152 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: arrest Affidavid, filed on December twenty ninth, twenty twenty two. 153 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 4: Some portions of the eighteen page statement are redacted, including 154 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 4: specific injuries sustained by the victims. It begins when investigators 155 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 4: arrived at eleven twenty two King Road at approximately four 156 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 4: o'clock PM on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. In an 157 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,479 Speaker 4: effort to understand the intricacies and protocols of scene security 158 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 4: and processing of a crime scene, we reached out to 159 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 4: forensic expert and host of the podcast Body Bags Joseph 160 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 4: Scott Morgan. I asked Joseph what an officer is looking 161 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 4: at or thinking about when they enter a scene for processing. 162 00:10:58,800 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 4: Here's Joseph. 163 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 3: It's hard to avert your eyes when you see evidence 164 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 3: of extreme violence. In this case, you would have had 165 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 3: copious amount of blood everywhere, and so as an investigator, 166 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 3: thinking as horrible as that is, you have to maintain 167 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 3: your vision here to separate the horror of what you're 168 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 3: seeing from the practicality and where should I step? Where 169 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 3: shouldn't I step? You know, you look obviously for a 170 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 3: weapon or evidences of forced entry. If you've got sliding 171 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 3: glass doors, have they been kicked in? And then I 172 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 3: think from a security perspective and also an evidentiary perspective, 173 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 3: you check the door, hopefully with a gloved hand. You 174 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: haven't had a chance to look into hidden places at 175 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 3: that point. Top, and there's the rub legally, because even 176 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 3: though there's a homicide, you're still going to need a 177 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: warrant to go in there and process the sea because 178 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 3: apps in a warrant, anything that you collect in that 179 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 3: environment suddenly is invalid. I'll give you a great example. 180 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 3: If you've got like a foot locker or a chest 181 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 3: of some kind. By law, when you go into a 182 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 3: residence like this, even though they're dead bodies, you can't 183 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 3: go opening those areas without a warrant, okay, So you 184 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 3: have to get a warrant before you can go digging 185 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 3: through chest of drawers or looking in what are generally 186 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 3: referred to as hidden spaces. If there's a closet without 187 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 3: with a door on it, for instance, you can from 188 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 3: a safety perspective, the law allows you to open that 189 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 3: door and say, is anybody in here? Flash or light 190 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 3: because that's a reasonable place that you would find a 191 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 3: victim and you're trying to assess it. But you can't 192 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 3: go peeling through clothes and pulling out shoe boxes and 193 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: all that sort of thing. So it seems vast, but 194 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 3: there is a prescribed methodology for going through one of 195 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 3: these scenes. Your job, after you've verified that people are 196 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 3: in fact dead in that house is to secure it. 197 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 3: No one else is to come in here, period, forget 198 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 3: it until those that show up with a warrant and 199 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 3: those that show up with the authority to investigate the 200 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: scene arrive, and then you turn it over to them. 201 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 4: At that point, the Affi David reads quote. Upon our arrival, 202 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 4: the Idaho State Police forensic team was on scene and 203 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 4: was preparing to begin processing the scene. Moscow Police Department 204 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 4: Officer Smith, one of the initial responding officers to the incident, 205 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 4: advised who would walk me through the scene? End quote. 206 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 4: I asked Joseph Scott Morgan why it's important to be 207 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 4: escorted through by an initial responding officer. 208 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 3: You only get one first look at any scene, period, 209 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 3: and the person that would have walked in and have 210 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 3: found those bodies initially, they essentially have a roadmap in 211 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: their brain at that point in tom because trust me, 212 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 3: even for the most hardened of police officers, they're going 213 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 3: to remember. But from a practical standpoint, when you have 214 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 3: another individual that is high ranking, maybe has more responsibility, 215 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 3: it is important that you walked through. And this is 216 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 3: what is actually there's a term for this. This is 217 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 3: called the initial walkthrough. 218 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 4: Continuing with the Affi David quote, Officer Smith directed me 219 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 4: down the hallway to the west bedroom on the second floor, 220 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 4: which I later learned was Xannakernodle's end quote. 221 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: Here again, Stephanie Xana Cernodle, age twenty, was in a 222 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: sorority and loved her dog named she Shine. She was 223 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: remembered by her family as always being positive, funny, and 224 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: was loved by everyone. She and Ethan were in love 225 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: and by all accounts, a solid couple. 226 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 4: If David continues quote, as I approached the room, I 227 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 4: could see a body later identified as Cernodles laying on 228 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 4: the floor. Cernodle was deceased with wounds that appeared to 229 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 4: have been caused by an edged weapon. End quote. I 230 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 4: asked Joseph Scott Morgan what we could take away from 231 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 4: this statement? 232 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 3: So what we can learn from just that statement alone 233 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 3: is that these wounds were so obvious that a person 234 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: like this that doesn't see them day in and day out, 235 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 3: they recognize that these are sharp horse injuries. And apparently 236 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 3: they were so glaring that he had no trouble, you know, 237 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 3: making that assessment. Zanna was where not in her bed. 238 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 3: She was on the floor. So you have that question 239 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: as an investigator, why is this young lady on the 240 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 3: floor and not in the bed. That's an important point 241 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 3: for investigators to get because if if you say that 242 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 3: she was in her bed, that implies that she was 243 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 3: attacked in her bed, killed in her bed. And not 244 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 3: moved even in a post mortem state. Okay, now you 245 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 3: would have to go back to the EMTs. I think 246 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: that initially responded and the question you want to ask 247 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 3: the EMT is okay, let me get this straight. Now, 248 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 3: when you walked into this room, did you see this 249 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 3: young woman on the floor or did you take her 250 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 3: from the bed and place her on the floor, because, 251 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 3: for instance, if she's unconscious, they're going to try to 252 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 3: take life saving measures. Right, it's not a good idea 253 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 3: to do chest compressions on a bed that gives you 254 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 3: need a solid backing for that, and many times they 255 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 3: will remove people and put them on the floor. Relative 256 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 3: to her injuries, she did have an awareness because you know, 257 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 3: we hear a lot in forensics about defensive wounds, okay, 258 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 3: and sometimes they're mild. You know, you get bruises on 259 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: the forearms, like in a blocking position, you can get 260 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 3: stab wounds on the forearm. That's not what they're talking about. 261 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 3: They're talking about a blade being drawn through the palm 262 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 3: of her hand down to the point where and it 263 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 3: has been stated this is not me saying it that 264 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 3: her tendons were cut. So that is a robust injury 265 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 3: to say, the very least with a very sharp edged weapon. 266 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 3: So if you can draw a blade across the surface 267 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 3: of a hand, you're not just breaking the epidermis or 268 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 3: the dermis or the subke fat. You're going through muscle. 269 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 3: You're going through structures. At that point in time, it's 270 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 3: a deep, deep cut or cuts. And so that assessment 271 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 3: is very important to make. 272 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 4: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 273 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 4: a moment. Continuing on with the Affidavid quote. Also in 274 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 4: the room was a male later identified as Ethan Chapin. 275 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 4: Chapin is also deceased with wounds later determined to be 276 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 4: caused by sharp force injuries. End quote again Stephanie, followed 277 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 4: by Joseph Scott Morgan. 278 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin was also twenty years old. He was actually 279 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: the first born of triplets. His siblings also attend the 280 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: University of Idaho. His mom said that he was the 281 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: most incredible person you'll ever know, and according to his obituary, 282 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: he lived his very best life in college. 283 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 3: First off, we have to begin to think about his 284 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: remains in relation to Zama's remains. Ethan's remains in relations 285 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 3: Ethan's a big kid. He's robust. He's an athlete. You 286 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 3: can only imagine when faced with an aggressor he would respond. 287 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 3: So I think one of the questions we would have 288 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 3: to ask is was he lying in bed asleep and 289 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 3: he awoke as a result of his disturbance, covered the 290 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 3: distance from the bed to the door, and there he's 291 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 3: met Bonace Sealin. This seems to run contrary to even 292 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 3: pressers that I have borne witness to, where it is 293 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 3: stated in the presser that the victims were asleep. 294 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 4: The presser or press conference Joseph refers to, took place 295 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 4: on November twenty first, twenty twenty two, just one week 296 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 4: after the multiple homicides. Here's Roger Laner. Moscow Police Department Operations. 297 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 2: Captain detectives have been provided with the results of those 298 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 2: autopsies and determined that it was likely all four victims 299 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 2: were asleep during the attack. 300 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 4: Some of the victims had defensive wounds. Again, Joseph Scott Morgan. 301 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 3: When you put that out there and you say that 302 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 3: the victims were asleep where they asleep and died in 303 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 3: their sleep, because I don't know. For me, my default 304 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 3: position automatically is if you tell me that that's what 305 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: I'm thinking, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 306 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 3: We've already got evidence that has been and clearly stated 307 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: that Zanna was found on the floor. All right, if 308 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 3: we can establish that she didn't commonly sleep on the floor, 309 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: then you know that she had an awareness. Then you know, 310 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 3: we think about Ethan lying in the doorway, Well, what 311 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 3: does that mean? Does it actually mean that just the 312 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 3: top of his head was lying on the threshold. Was 313 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 3: he entirely out of the room and lying back into 314 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 3: the bedroom? You know, and look, with both of these victims, 315 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 3: I have to think that there was very intimate contact. 316 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 3: Now I don't mean that in a sexual way. I 317 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 3: mean that this is a tussle, this is a fight. 318 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 3: So you think about contact trace evidences, that is transitioning 319 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 3: between the assailant and the victims. And in what order 320 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 3: did this happen? That's important to ask. It's not just 321 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 3: the action of the killing. It's those moments, those perry 322 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 3: mortem moments, which means in the midst of death, that 323 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 3: are very compelling to me because you know that there 324 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: had to be very intimate, up close and personal contact 325 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 3: between the assailant and these victims. 326 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 4: For further clarification. I asked Joseph about the significance of 327 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 4: Ethan being reported found quote in the room in this 328 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 4: report versus other reports we've read placing him in the doorway. 329 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 3: Maybe it is semantics, but semantics aside. When this kind 330 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 3: of information is released to the public, it's very confusing 331 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 3: because it goes to confusion about the dynamic of the event. 332 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 3: And remember, and this is very very important. There has 333 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 3: yet to be a jury selected, and this data is 334 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 3: out there. This information is out there, and this is 335 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 3: kind of very specific information about the scene, very specific. 336 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 3: You're not just talking about two victims here that died 337 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 3: of sharp force inentry. Now we've discussed being on the floor, 338 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 3: We've discussed specific injuries. That's very detailed information that has 339 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 3: now jumped out from inside of that kind of protective 340 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 3: investigative bubble. And so it might be semantics. However, it 341 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 3: is important, and this is going to have to be explained, 342 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 3: and it will be explained, that question will be asked. 343 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 3: All of this is going to be on display in court. 344 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 3: I don't know how far it will go, but it's 345 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 3: certainly interesting because I was confused because from when I 346 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 3: initially heard the presser that the chief gave. He plainly 347 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 3: stated they were attacked while they were asleep. Okay, don't 348 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 3: know what that means, but I tell you it doesn't 349 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 3: necessarily marry up with the idea that one victim is 350 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 3: lying in the doorway, another is on the floor adjacent 351 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 3: to the bed. 352 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 4: The affidavit continues quote. The third floor consisted of two 353 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 4: bedrooms and one bathroom. The bedroom on the west side 354 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 4: of the floor was later determined to be Kaylee Gonsabasis. 355 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 4: I later learned there was a dog in the room. 356 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 4: When my LESCo Police officers initially responded end to quote, 357 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 4: I asked Joseph, if there's a standard protocol at a 358 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 4: murder scene when a pet is present, when. 359 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 3: You actually have an animal present at the same I've 360 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 3: worked cases like this where you know, I remember one 361 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 3: case in particular where had a cat that was super 362 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 3: saturated in blood. As a matter of fact, they attracted 363 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 3: it to blood and there were bloody pawprints everywhere. As 364 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 3: a result of that, you would want to get that 365 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 3: animal secured as quickly as possible. If you have a 366 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 3: collar that has what appears to be blood evidence on it, 367 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 3: whose blood was it, and that can go to sequence 368 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: of events. If you find a collar and it's on 369 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 3: the third floor of the home, but yet you find 370 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 3: blood sample on that collar from individuals that are on 371 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 3: the second floor of the home, how did that happen? 372 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: How does that explain? So, yeah, you should treat that 373 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 3: animal as if they are evidence, and they are evident. 374 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 3: So the dog plays a crucial role. 375 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 4: Once again from the affidavit quote. Officer Smith then pointed 376 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 4: out a small bathroom on the east side of the 377 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 4: third floor. This bathroom shared a wall with Madison Mogan's 378 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 4: hereafter Mogan's bedroom, which was situated on the southeast corner 379 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 4: of the third floor. As I entered the bedroom, I 380 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 4: could see two females in the single bed in the room. 381 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 4: Both Gonzalvez and Mogan were deceased with visible stab wounds. 382 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 4: End quote. Here's Stephanie followed by Joseph Scott Morgan. 383 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: To say that Mattie was loved by all is such 384 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: an understatement. Mattie was known for her laugh in her 385 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: offbeat sense of humor. Mattie was a waitress at the 386 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: Mad Greek restaurant and was using her marketing skills to 387 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: run a social media campaign for them. She planned to 388 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: move to Boise after graduating in the spring. Kaylee and 389 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: Madison Mogan were best friends since they were little girls. 390 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: Kayley was the middle child of her family and she 391 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: did absolutely everything she said her mind to. According to 392 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 1: her family, Kally was the ultimate go getter and constantly 393 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: was looking for an adventure. She had recently bought a 394 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen Range Rover and planned a trip to Europe, 395 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: and she was expecting to move to Texas after graduation. 396 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 3: Out of all the cases that I've handled over the 397 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 3: course of my career, you're talking about trauma, and this 398 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 3: includes even shotgun wounds. In my experience, there's nothing bloodier 399 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 3: than sharp force injury, particularly if you have multiple and 400 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 3: after a period of time, forgive me for saying this, 401 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 3: but after a period of time, after someone has been 402 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 3: deceased and they bled profusely, the blood will begin to 403 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 3: coagulate and crust. It's hard to make sense of anything 404 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 3: in low light circumstances, particularly if your first eyes on 405 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 3: and in this case, i think, even when compared to 406 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 3: Xana and Ethan, these two young women's bodies are contained. 407 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 3: They're in a single space. So I'm not saying that 408 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 3: it would be easy to process those bodies, but given 409 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 3: the contained space that they're in, it wouldn't be as 410 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 3: taxing I think for the investigator. And you can also 411 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 3: begin to understand the dynamic I think a little bit 412 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 3: of the event, because if you have blood on the 413 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 3: bodies of those downstairs that has been transferred from those upstairs, 414 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 3: that goes to sequencing because essentially, you know, if you're 415 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 3: using the same weapon, you have the same person that's 416 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 3: perpetrating this, and keep in mind, they're going to be 417 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 3: super saturated with blood. I will stand by that comment. 418 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 3: They're moving about and transferring all of this from person 419 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 3: to person. The knife itself acts as almost like a 420 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 3: method of inoculation with this blood, So you're introducing blood 421 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 3: into other victims as you'd go down the tom lot. 422 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 4: Here, the affidavit continues quote I also later noticed what 423 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 4: appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath lying on 424 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 4: the bed next to Mogan's right side when viewed from 425 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 4: the door. The sheath was later processed and had the 426 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 4: United States Marine Corps Eagle globe and Anchor insignia stamped 427 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 4: on the outside of it. The Idaho Lab later located 428 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 4: a single source of male DNA parentheses, suspect profile left 429 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 4: on the button snap of the ninth sheaf end quote. 430 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 4: Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in 431 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 4: a moment. At this point in our interview, Joseph pulls 432 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 4: out the exact same make and model knife and sheath 433 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 4: that's alleged to be the murder weapon. 434 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 3: That's a This is the exact weapon. It's the same 435 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 3: one that was used. 436 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. 437 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 3: So this thing is like really heavy, it's very robust, 438 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 3: very robust, and Courtney, right out of the box, I 439 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 3: could have shaved my beard with this thing. It's that sharp, 440 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 3: right out of the box. And you can see this 441 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 3: one's got the it's got the USMC. That's what they've found. 442 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. 443 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 3: And this I think is where they recover the DNA from. 444 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,479 Speaker 3: And he may have wiped the whole damn thing down, okay, 445 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 3: but the one place that he would not have accounted 446 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 3: for is his button stamp. And if you drag your 447 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 3: thumb across it like that, you're going to put skin 448 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 3: cells in here. Because these people in the lab, Courtney, 449 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 3: I got to tell you, they're pretty amazing. They consider 450 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 3: things that you and I don't consider this is what 451 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 3: we harvested from that area. And if he wipes that 452 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 3: damn thing down, Let's just say he prepared before he 453 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 3: got there, Okay, I thought about this, so he would 454 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 3: be walking in with this like this, and I've always 455 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,239 Speaker 3: it almost seems Shakespearean. I've always envisioned him getting on 456 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 3: that bed or standing at the end of the bed 457 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 3: and maybe bumping the bed to wake them up. And 458 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: he gets into this frenzy and he attacks him with 459 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 3: a knife, and he's a sadist and he's inflicting pain, 460 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 3: and in this frenzy he drops the sheath and I 461 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,239 Speaker 3: can only imagine he had an oh shit moment. I 462 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 3: guarantee you when he rolled back to his apartment, He's like, wait, 463 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 3: where is this thing? I got the knife, but I 464 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 3: don't have the sheath. You know. I'm thinking he's got 465 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 3: this going on in his mind, and at this point 466 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 3: he's passed the rubicont. 467 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 4: Our. Goals for this season are multi pronged. Here's Stephanie. 468 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: We're going to unpack the facts, hopefully to better understand 469 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: the law, search and seizure issues at play, how the 470 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: demolition of the crime scene may or may not have 471 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: impacted things moving forward. We want to contextualize what's been 472 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: happening for family and friends in the wider community in 473 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: the wake of such a tragedy, and we really want 474 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: to understand the psychology what might shape the mind of 475 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: a killer. 476 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 4: This season on the Idaho massacre. 477 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 3: What can you do with evil? You can exterminate it? 478 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 3: Son here. Their alibi defense apparently is that he likes 479 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 3: to drive around and see the moon and the stars. 480 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: Do I buy it? No. We all like to believe 481 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: in our hearts that if we come across somebody who's 482 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: violent or dangerous, that we'd get a Spidey sense. Did 483 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: you have that feeling that he was capable or off? 484 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: To be honest, I never got any of those feelings. 485 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 4: However, I do remember this one incident that. 486 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 5: Happened social past, and psychopaths simply do not have a 487 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 5: feeling when you hurt someone else. If you think about it, 488 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 5: it makes him pretty much perfect killing mission. 489 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 4: I was stuck in this cycle of Oh my gosh, 490 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 4: what's going to happen next, What's going to happen next? 491 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 4: Or could this happen to me? 492 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 7: The underlying psychological phenomenon is that they are doing to 493 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 7: themselves what the killer didn't do to them. 494 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 3: Until the case is over, it seems nonsensical to say 495 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 3: the least to destroy the building. 496 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 6: Is there an immediacy for a jury going to a house? 497 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 6: Psychologically speaking, I would say yes. 498 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: This is a death penalty case because there were four 499 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: people killed all at once in a really brutal manner. 500 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 4: For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow 501 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 4: us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masacre 502 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 4: is produced by Stephanie Leideger, Gabriel Castillo, and me Courtney Armstrong. 503 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 4: Editing and sound design by Jeff Tooi music by Jared Aston. 504 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 4: The Idaho Ascer is a production of KTI Studios and iHeartRadio. 505 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 4: For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 506 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.