WEBVTT - Ever True to Thee

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<v Speaker 1>Mississippi State Hospital Museum that.

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<v Speaker 2>We're standing in a hallway at the Mississippi State Hospital

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<v Speaker 2>at Whitfield, one of a handful of state run residential

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<v Speaker 2>mental health facilities still operating here. It's my first time

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<v Speaker 2>really seeing the hospital, but I've heard about it my

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<v Speaker 2>whole life. Everyone in Mississippi has.

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<v Speaker 3>It was the threat that your family always gave you.

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<v Speaker 2>If you act crazy, you'll go to Whitfield.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, people see you do that. You're going to Whitfield.

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<v Speaker 4>If you don't behave I'm going.

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<v Speaker 5>To take competer Whitfield.

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<v Speaker 3>What you out?

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<v Speaker 6>Whitfield.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the informal name for the Mississippi State Hospital. It's

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<v Speaker 2>been Mississippi's primary mental health facility since nineteen thirty five,

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<v Speaker 2>when the state shuttered the old asylum in Jackson and

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<v Speaker 2>moved those patients out here. It's that place your mom

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<v Speaker 2>says you'll go if you don't act right, the place

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<v Speaker 2>your friend's neighbor got sent. It has mythic status in Mississippi.

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<v Speaker 2>But standing here in a marble room full of outdated

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<v Speaker 2>therapy equipment, wod Field's not scary. It's quaint, at least

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<v Speaker 2>in the museum. Hard to say how much of that

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<v Speaker 2>is because of our tour guides, Donna Brown and Kathy Denton.

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<v Speaker 2>These two have been here for decades and know everything

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<v Speaker 2>about the place. Donna took the lead with Kathy chiming in.

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<v Speaker 2>I noticed a black and white photo of a woman

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<v Speaker 2>in what looks like a shower.

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<v Speaker 3>The lady in the shower.

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<v Speaker 5>They had to pencil in Panny and broad hard cuf

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<v Speaker 5>it was pornography for nineteen thirty eight.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a quirky museum. There's a display of patient run

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<v Speaker 2>newspapers and literary magazines, and then around the corner posters

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<v Speaker 2>for movies were Whitfield makes a cameo, including the Sandra

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<v Speaker 2>Bullet classic A Time to Kill.

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<v Speaker 4>The scene in the movie where she breaks into the

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<v Speaker 4>psychiatrist's office was filmed in the building that you passed

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<v Speaker 4>on the way to this one and.

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<v Speaker 5>The Beast within.

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<v Speaker 4>You watch a lot of it on YouTube, but you're

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<v Speaker 4>going to recognize very little of the hospital. There's a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of screaming and running and dark.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of the museum is housed in one of what

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<v Speaker 2>Field's old hydrotherapy units. Hydrotherapy basically means using water as

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<v Speaker 2>medical treatment for physical or mental health. If you ever

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<v Speaker 2>taken a dip at a spa, you've had hydrotherapy.

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<v Speaker 7>Today you can go the spa.

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<v Speaker 5>They'll wrap you in mud, sand, alojl seaweed, coffee grounds, tea, leave.

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<v Speaker 3>Salt, sugar.

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<v Speaker 5>The most expensive one I've found is Pink Indie in

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<v Speaker 5>sand in New Orleans, twelve hundred dollars forty five minutes.

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<v Speaker 2>Back in the day, it was on the bleeding edge

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<v Speaker 2>of mental health care, Woodfield hydrotherapy, and it consisted of

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<v Speaker 2>several rooms of white marble from the floor all the

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<v Speaker 2>way up to the ceiling, and the kind of porcelain

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<v Speaker 2>sinks and claw footed tubs that an HGTV host would.

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<v Speaker 7>Kill for hydro therapy does.

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<v Speaker 5>Now, this is by far the treatment of choice. Just

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<v Speaker 5>a long soak and a big old back, yeah big.

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<v Speaker 2>But other hydrotherapy practices were more brutal than relaxing.

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<v Speaker 5>Now, this is a needle spray shower or a Scotch shower.

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<v Speaker 5>He's one of these nozzles. Control the jet of the

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<v Speaker 5>water cold here, hot, here, back and forth. The doctor

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<v Speaker 5>would literally write a prescription. The patient would come in,

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<v Speaker 5>go to the center, hold on to the bars.

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<v Speaker 7>She would start spraying the formula. See the petals.

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<v Speaker 5>They're not here today, but at control of the intensity

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<v Speaker 5>via water.

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<v Speaker 2>If you've seen one flew over the cuckoo's nest, it's

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<v Speaker 2>easy to imagine a sadistic nurse ratchet gleefully blasting patients

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<v Speaker 2>into submission. But the first antipsychotic drug wasn't introduced until

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteen fifties, nearly one hundred years after Mississippi opened

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<v Speaker 2>its original State asylum. Donna tells us that the doctors

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<v Speaker 2>of that era really believed that this was an effective treatment.

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<v Speaker 2>Donna waved us toward another room. This one was almost

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<v Speaker 2>like a grotto with a big slab smack dab in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle like an altar. That's where the patients would

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<v Speaker 2>be placed.

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<v Speaker 7>This is a wet pag treatment.

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<v Speaker 5>When he came, he was very many, very fidgetive. They

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<v Speaker 5>wanted to calm him down, so they wrapped him in

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<v Speaker 5>sheets as tind as they could, much like a swaddled baby.

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<v Speaker 5>Got him on the table, hot and cold water faucetsteads soaking.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, before we exit the hydrotherapy unit, Donna reads us.

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<v Speaker 5>Upon meditation and hydrotherapy, Theodore Rothkey six hours a day,

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<v Speaker 5>I lay me down within this tub that cannot drown.

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<v Speaker 5>Within this primal element, the flesh is willing to repent.

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<v Speaker 5>I do not laugh, I do not cry. I'm sweating

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<v Speaker 5>out the will to die. My past is sliding.

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<v Speaker 3>Down the drain.

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<v Speaker 5>I soon will be myself again.

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<v Speaker 2>I wish Theodore ret Key were still around, because I'd

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<v Speaker 2>love to ask him about that last line. Is it

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<v Speaker 2>sarcastic or did he really feel like an ice bath

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<v Speaker 2>restored his sanity? Was he just hoping that it would.

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<v Speaker 2>The more I've listen, the more I hear irony, and

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<v Speaker 2>I soon will be myself again. But maybe that's because

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<v Speaker 2>of the place asylums have come to occupy in my

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<v Speaker 2>or really in the American imagination. It's a place of

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<v Speaker 2>broken promises. You're supposed to get better, but in most

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<v Speaker 2>stories I've read, most movies I've seen, the opposite happens.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe that's why they's such a popular setting for horror films.

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<v Speaker 2>That may be the narrative we have today, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>not the one the asylum started with. The promise of

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<v Speaker 2>the Old Asylum was that it was a place for healing,

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<v Speaker 2>But over one third of the patients who passed through

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<v Speaker 2>the Old asylum's doors died within them.

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<v Speaker 8>The popular narrative is that it was great when it

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<v Speaker 8>started out and then it just went downhill. The true narrative,

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<v Speaker 8>I think, is just a much more complicated than that.

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<v Speaker 2>So how exactly did this promise break? I'm Larison Campbell

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<v Speaker 2>in This is under Yazuklay. When word got out back

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twelve that thousands of bodies had been found

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<v Speaker 2>at the site of Mississippi's Old Asylum, the news spread fast.

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<v Speaker 3>This is the University of Mississippi Medical Center.

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<v Speaker 1>Its campus is home to six health science schools, more

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<v Speaker 1>than three thousand students, and thousands of unmarked graves.

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<v Speaker 6>It hit that viral sweet spot.

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<v Speaker 2>A horror movie and one headline not just confirming our

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<v Speaker 2>dark expectations but exceeding them. It's death and drama in

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<v Speaker 2>the Old South and a lunatic asylum all bald into one.

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<v Speaker 7>What ends up is the Southern Gothic, the terrain of terror.

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<v Speaker 2>That's Mab Secrest. Southern scholar and historical author. Mab spent

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<v Speaker 2>more than fifteen years researching and studying Georgia's Millageville Asylum.

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<v Speaker 2>Because this isn't just a Mississippi story. Any states had

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<v Speaker 2>asylums in and out of the South. But the terrain

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<v Speaker 2>of terror that mAbs describing, that's not the way things

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<v Speaker 2>started out for our old asylum.

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<v Speaker 7>Starts off is a story about Enlightenment optimism, and it

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<v Speaker 7>starts in Europe, and it comes to this country.

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<v Speaker 2>That enlightenment, she mentions, is the Enlightenment, that glowing moment

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<v Speaker 2>of philosophy and reason in Europe between the seventeenth and

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<v Speaker 2>nineteenth centuries. Eventually, these ideals made their way across the pond.

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<v Speaker 2>Until people were enlightened. Society's primary solution for dealing with

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<v Speaker 2>severe mental illness was simple isolation or restraint, sometimes both.

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<v Speaker 2>That could mean the family home behind a locked door

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<v Speaker 2>in a back room, or if you're a first wife

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<v Speaker 2>of Victorian literature, in the attic. For those whose families

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't care for them, there were public almshouses and the

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<v Speaker 2>county jail. How far we've come. Physical restraints were common,

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<v Speaker 2>sanitation standards non existent. Dungeons were a real thing. The

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<v Speaker 2>goal here separate the ill person.

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<v Speaker 6>From the non ill community.

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<v Speaker 2>But as Enlightenment ideas called on, as medicine and science

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<v Speaker 2>became more robust, doctors began to argue that mental illness

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<v Speaker 2>was a problem society could actually solve.

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<v Speaker 9>Doctors start to believe that you can heal the troubled

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<v Speaker 9>mind if you change the environment, and if you put

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<v Speaker 9>them in a beautiful place. Then you give them doctors

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<v Speaker 9>who pay attention and listen to them, you give them

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<v Speaker 9>good nutrition, you give them a beautiful setting, and you

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<v Speaker 9>give them some occupational therapy.

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<v Speaker 7>Then they'll get better. It's called the moral therapy.

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<v Speaker 9>But you could cure people about changing structures, which is

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<v Speaker 9>a very progressive idea, and you know, can really cure

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<v Speaker 9>insanity with these different hospitals.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a revolutionary idea. Change a person's outside environment

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<v Speaker 2>and they'll change internally. But in practical terms, what does

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<v Speaker 2>the infrastructure of calm quietude look like? In the eighteen forties,

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<v Speaker 2>a physician in Philadelphia came up with an.

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<v Speaker 8>Answer, Thomas Kirkbride, who was a psychiatrist who was very

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<v Speaker 8>devoted to taking care of people with mental health issues.

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<v Speaker 8>And you know, it's this whole idea that if you

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<v Speaker 8>just get away from the normal pressures of life and

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<v Speaker 8>have a little time to breathe and to enjoy the

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<v Speaker 8>fresh air and to be taken care of, then you'll

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<v Speaker 8>get better and you can return to life as a

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<v Speaker 8>normal citizen.

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<v Speaker 2>That was Leida Gibson, coordinator of the Asylum Hill Project.

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<v Speaker 2>Thomas Kirkbride would later formalize his plan into a magnum

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<v Speaker 2>opus with a title on the Construction, Organization and General

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<v Speaker 2>Arrangements of Hospitals for the Insane, with some remarks on

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<v Speaker 2>insanity and its treatment.

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<v Speaker 6>He was specific.

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<v Speaker 2>The plan included exact staff numbers, roles, and even salaries.

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<v Speaker 2>He drew up measurements for rooms and windows and the

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<v Speaker 2>space between windows down to the inch.

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<v Speaker 3>The kirkbry Plan.

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<v Speaker 8>The idea was that you had to have a certain

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<v Speaker 8>amount of cubic feet of air space in order to

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<v Speaker 8>get well. These were rooms with really tall ceilings. They

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<v Speaker 8>had huge windows. The patients could open the windows and

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<v Speaker 8>you'll notice from the plan there's a haul down the

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<v Speaker 8>middle and then every room on every side has a window.

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<v Speaker 8>People had their own rooms when it first started. I

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<v Speaker 8>mean this would be like a luxurious dorm room.

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<v Speaker 7>It called on.

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<v Speaker 2>The first was in Trenton, New Jersey. Other states followed.

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<v Speaker 2>The Mississippi State Lunatic Asylum was one of the first

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<v Speaker 2>dozen in the country. In the first Kirkbright Hospital in

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<v Speaker 2>the Deep South. Just to ground you in the timeline

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<v Speaker 2>real quick. The Mississippi State Lunatic Asylum opened its doors

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<v Speaker 2>in eighteen fifty five. It had taken five years to

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<v Speaker 2>complete at a cost of one hundred and seventy five

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars. That's about seven million in today's money. If

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<v Speaker 2>this level of benevolence and generosity for Mississippians with mental

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<v Speaker 2>illness seems out of character for a state government whose

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<v Speaker 2>focus was keeping slavery legal, don't worry. The decision to

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<v Speaker 2>build this asylum to look after a quote less fortunate

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<v Speaker 2>Mississippians does not buck the narrative you've come to know.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's say it's the eighteen fifties. You're a Mississippi lawmaker

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<v Speaker 2>trying to put a shine on an image badly tarnished

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<v Speaker 2>by I don't know, your refusal to stop treating humans

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<v Speaker 2>like chattel. Maybe investing in this monument to those Enlightenment

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<v Speaker 2>ideals of individual liberty natural rights in the social contract

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<v Speaker 2>starts to seem like a good way to thumb your

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<v Speaker 2>nose all those Yankees crying about the immorality of slavery,

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<v Speaker 2>a sort of see we're not all bad.

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<v Speaker 8>Perhaps It's not so pointed in the institutional records, but

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<v Speaker 8>you read between the lines and you say, you know,

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<v Speaker 8>look at what we do for those unfortunates among us.

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<v Speaker 3>They did not use the words.

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<v Speaker 8>That would be that would be acceptable today, but and

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<v Speaker 8>this became something that they could point to.

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<v Speaker 3>This was the most.

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<v Speaker 8>Impressive structure in the state that remained after the Civil War.

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<v Speaker 8>This was sort of a monument to the goodness of

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<v Speaker 8>Mississippi leaders.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's exactly what a nurse named Dorothea Dix was

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<v Speaker 2>banking on. Probably heard her name before, because Dicks almost

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<v Speaker 2>single handedly created the first generation of state asylums in

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<v Speaker 2>the eighteen forties. Dorothea Dix turned Kirkbride's asylum plan into

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<v Speaker 2>something of a road show, lobbying state legislatures in the

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<v Speaker 2>North and the South to build these hospitals.

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<v Speaker 7>Reading about Dorothea Dix was very instructive to me on

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<v Speaker 7>the relationships of mental hospitals in the South versus the

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<v Speaker 7>North in an environment of growing abolition.

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<v Speaker 2>She began her career as a teacher, but on March

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eighth, eighteen forty one, the thirty five year old

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<v Speaker 2>went to teach a Sunday school class at East Cambridge

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<v Speaker 2>House of Corrections in Massachusetts. There she found groups of

0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 2>women experiencing psychiatric conditions. They were chained in dirty, unheated cells.

0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Many had never committed a crime but were locked up

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:58.119
<v Speaker 2>with violent felons. They'd been starved, tortured, and sexually assaulted.

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.200
<v Speaker 2>From that day forward, she became a tireless advocate for

0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.800
<v Speaker 2>better treatment for people with mental illness.

0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 7>And Dorothea Dix is one of the heroines of the

0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.960
<v Speaker 7>humane treatment of insane people and institutions, especially this Kirkbride model,

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.320
<v Speaker 7>which was supposed to kind of separate out and bring

0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.400
<v Speaker 7>them in, and it's a whole architecture of sanity in

0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 7>that way.

0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.120
<v Speaker 2>In Mississippi, she presented the state legislature with the findings

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 2>from a study she'd done. She told them how Mississippians

0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.400
<v Speaker 2>with mental illness were living in poverty and all alone,

0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.920
<v Speaker 2>often quote chained in closets and attics, in jails or dungeons.

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:41.120
<v Speaker 2>Mississippi lawmakers were blown away. They appropriated the full amount

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 2>requested fifty thousand dollars for the construction of a new

0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 2>state asylum, and then they made their first mistake because

0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.280
<v Speaker 2>they picked a site right at the thickest part of

0:15:54.280 --> 0:16:00.000
<v Speaker 2>that Yazoo clay. The foundation was laid and then relayed,

0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:12.640
<v Speaker 2>more building delays, more structural problems. The Mississippi State Lunatic

0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Asylum finally opened its doors, more than one hundred and

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 2>twenty five thousand dollars over that initial budget. But it

0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 2>was a beautiful neoclassical building with a thirty five foot

0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 2>tall portico supported by six doric columns visible all the

0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.080
<v Speaker 2>way down to Fortification Street about a mile away. It

0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.720
<v Speaker 2>had a capacity for two hundred and fifty patients. Remember

0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:42.200
<v Speaker 2>that number. The grandiosity of the architecture speaks to the

0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.600
<v Speaker 2>grand plans Mississippi.

0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:44.720
<v Speaker 6>Had for the place.

0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.800
<v Speaker 2>This wasn't a warehouse for the community's problems. Warehouses don't

0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.480
<v Speaker 2>get columns and kubolas. This was a place that would

0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.920
<v Speaker 2>cure people. After all. This was the era of rapidly

0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:02.720
<v Speaker 2>evolving medical treatment. In the nineteenth century, Doctors began to

0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:08.000
<v Speaker 2>link dirt and filth with disease. Cities began installing sewage

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:13.040
<v Speaker 2>and sanitation systems. Germs themselves still hadn't been discovered, but

0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.720
<v Speaker 2>concepts of germ theory were there. A smallpox vaccine, Cholera's

0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:23.359
<v Speaker 2>connection to contaminated water. Science was beginning to conquer physical maladies,

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:29.880
<v Speaker 2>why should disease of the mind be any different. There's

0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:36.320
<v Speaker 2>something else we haven't told you about Dorothea Dix, something

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.720
<v Speaker 2>that probably helped her connect with lawmakers in the Antebellum South.

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.639
<v Speaker 7>She in fact is very, i would say viryingly anti

0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:50.040
<v Speaker 7>black racist. Dorothya Dix didn't link black people, and she

0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.679
<v Speaker 7>thought that insane people were treated with some black people.

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.600
<v Speaker 7>So Southern legislators loved her.

0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:00.320
<v Speaker 2>And when black patients were admitted, their quality of care

0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.440
<v Speaker 2>was substantially lower.

0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:07.480
<v Speaker 8>Sod they were initially a separate wing for the black patients,

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.280
<v Speaker 8>and then very quickly they built annexes off the back

0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.120
<v Speaker 8>that were three stories as well. But you know, obviously

0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.560
<v Speaker 8>they weren't as big and spacious as the initial.

0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Structure, meaning these facilities for the black patients. They never

0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.520
<v Speaker 2>even tried to adhere to the Kirkbride plan, which was

0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.679
<v Speaker 2>the whole reason the asylum was built in the first place.

0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.440
<v Speaker 2>In order for the quote curative properties of the Kirkbride

0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:44.240
<v Speaker 2>model to work, the patients need physical space, big private rooms,

0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.840
<v Speaker 2>fresh air, careful attention from doctors and nurses, and if

0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.040
<v Speaker 2>patients aren't recovering enough to be released. It creates a

0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:57.040
<v Speaker 2>backlog crowding, and then even the patients who could have

0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 2>been helped by the Kirkbride plan no longer getting better.

0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Part of the reason for the overcrowding many of the

0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.640
<v Speaker 2>people living and dying at the Old Asylum weren't mentally ill.

0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:22.320
<v Speaker 2>That's after the break. The largest art museum in the state,

0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.520
<v Speaker 2>the Mississippi Museum of Art, connects Mississippi to the world

0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.200
<v Speaker 2>and the power of art to the power of community.

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Located in downtown Jackson, the museum's permanent collection is free

0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.320
<v Speaker 2>to the public. National and international exhibitions rotate throughout the year,

0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:40.239
<v Speaker 2>allowing visitors to experience works from around the world. The

0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:43.240
<v Speaker 2>gardens at Expansive Lawn at the Mississippi Museum of Art

0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.280
<v Speaker 2>are home to art installations in a variety of events

0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 2>for all ages. Plan your visit today at MS museumart

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:51.640
<v Speaker 2>dot org.

0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.520
<v Speaker 6>That's MS Museum art dot org.

0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.159
<v Speaker 7>This right here is very interesting.

0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:03.720
<v Speaker 5>It's a register for the Mississippi State Lunatic Asylum.

0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.359
<v Speaker 2>While at the Woodfield Museum, my producer Rebecca and I

0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.240
<v Speaker 2>came across a giant ledger easily five inches thick with

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:15.040
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of pages. Each page was a list of names,

0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:20.040
<v Speaker 2>then census details like gender, age, race, written in neat cursive,

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.320
<v Speaker 2>along with the reason each patient was admitted.

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh, oh ill.

0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 10>Health, menopause, Yes, PMS is in here somewhere, okay, agree,

0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:39.480
<v Speaker 10>fright a couplet?

0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:50.359
<v Speaker 2>Religion, Yeah, grief, fright, PMS, religion. These were some of

0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:55.399
<v Speaker 2>the causes for institutionalization noted during patient intakes. With so

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.399
<v Speaker 2>many possible reasons for admission, maybe it's no surprise that

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:00.760
<v Speaker 2>the place got overcrowded.

0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.720
<v Speaker 8>Yes, So the Kirkbright Plan in general, and certainly the

0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.440
<v Speaker 8>institution in Mississippi was established for those people who could

0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:12.800
<v Speaker 8>be cured. It was never meant as a place to

0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:15.640
<v Speaker 8>where people would live out their lives, but there were

0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.800
<v Speaker 8>no other options. So what do you do with somebody

0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.159
<v Speaker 8>who is having epileptic seizures all day long? What do

0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.399
<v Speaker 8>you do with people who are never going to get better?

0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:31.160
<v Speaker 8>And you know, this idea that people who had been

0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.359
<v Speaker 8>dethroned of reason were the only people that this institution

0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.639
<v Speaker 8>could serve was just not realistic from the beginning. And

0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.919
<v Speaker 8>I think that's the popular narrative that they just said,

0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:46.399
<v Speaker 8>you know, okay, We're going to just become everything to

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.640
<v Speaker 8>all these people who need different things. They simply were

0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.959
<v Speaker 8>reacting to the situation at the time. And you know,

0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:55.760
<v Speaker 8>in a couple of the reports, people say, what are

0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.440
<v Speaker 8>we supposed to do when people show up at the door?

0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:01.240
<v Speaker 8>Are we supposed to just leave them out on the streets?

0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:03.760
<v Speaker 8>And so there were a lot of people who were

0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:08.239
<v Speaker 8>accepted in the asylum, and there was an acknowledgement that

0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.920
<v Speaker 8>they weren't going to get better. So the philosophy never

0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:16.080
<v Speaker 8>really changed. It was simply that they had to deal

0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:17.960
<v Speaker 8>with the cards they were dealt.

0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:23.520
<v Speaker 2>One of the cards Mississippi got dealt a disease called palagra.

0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.640
<v Speaker 2>You heard about it from Wayne Lee the grave Delzer.

0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:30.119
<v Speaker 2>It's that nutritional deficiency that killed his grandfather.

0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 11>He wasn't crazy, he was just starving.

0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.600
<v Speaker 8>I mean, I had never even heard of palagra before.

0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:43.320
<v Speaker 8>So palagor was a nutritional deficiency that just swept the Southeast.

0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:44.200
<v Speaker 3>Starting at about nineteen ten.

0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:52.879
<v Speaker 8>And it's characterized by what they call the four d's, dermatitis, diarrhea, dementia,

0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:57.879
<v Speaker 8>death in that order, people from all walks of life

0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:02.200
<v Speaker 8>would come down with palagra. Of course, the dementia wasn't

0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:07.760
<v Speaker 8>apparent until close to the end, so many many patients,

0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:12.360
<v Speaker 8>especially those from the Delta, were admitted with polagra, and

0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:16.480
<v Speaker 8>in the institutional reports they talk about, you know, by

0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:19.120
<v Speaker 8>the time they get here, it's too late to do anything.

0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Palagora was not only an epidemic for decades, it remained

0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:27.600
<v Speaker 2>a medical mystery with.

0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:30.480
<v Speaker 6>A geographic preference the Southeast.

0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:36.040
<v Speaker 2>By the late nineteen thirties, three million Americans total had

0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:41.399
<v Speaker 2>contracted palagora, most of them Southerners. Mississippi was ground zero

0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.440
<v Speaker 2>of the Palagora epidemic, which is why a doctor named

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.760
<v Speaker 2>Joseph Goldberger headed there to study it in nineteen fourteen.

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Goldberger was a physician with the US Hygienic Laboratory,

0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.359
<v Speaker 2>the progenitor of today's National Institutes of Health.

0:23:56.080 --> 0:24:02.440
<v Speaker 8>So he did an experiment with prisoners the Rankin County Penitentiary.

0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:08.600
<v Speaker 8>These were quote volunteers who were then fed a very

0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:14.200
<v Speaker 8>specific diet, and they were able to understand that pelagra

0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.920
<v Speaker 8>came from this niais and deficiency.

0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 2>See Mississippi's old Asylum. Might have begun life in the

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 2>wealthiest state in the country, but by the nineteen twenties,

0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:30.840
<v Speaker 2>Mississippi had assumed a position. We're all familiar with the country's.

0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:33.320
<v Speaker 8>Poorest, because if you look at the old pictures of

0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:37.399
<v Speaker 8>the you know of sharecroppers on the farms in the Delta,

0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:41.119
<v Speaker 8>that cotton is planted right up to the shacks. Because

0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:44.200
<v Speaker 8>they wanted to use every inch of land for cotton. Instead,

0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 8>they stopped growing their own vegetables and raising hogs or

0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:51.800
<v Speaker 8>raising cattle or anything like that, and they bought everything

0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.680
<v Speaker 8>from the company's store. I think it's like fat back

0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:56.680
<v Speaker 8>and molasses.

0:24:57.680 --> 0:25:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Southern doctors found Goldberger's evidence offensive. I mean, here is

0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:05.879
<v Speaker 2>this Jewish doctor from New York City parachuting in just

0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:14.920
<v Speaker 2>to embarrass a whole region by calling them poor. Goldberger

0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:17.720
<v Speaker 2>had figured out that brewers yeast, the stuff you used

0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:21.840
<v Speaker 2>to make beer, could send Pelagora packing, but his solution

0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:25.320
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be implemented at any scale until years later. During

0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:29.040
<v Speaker 2>one of the greatest natural disasters in US history, the

0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:35.040
<v Speaker 2>nineteen twenty seven Mississippi River floods, hundreds of thousands of

0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:36.320
<v Speaker 2>people lost their homes.

0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:38.600
<v Speaker 6>Tent cities sprung up along.

0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Levees from Memphis all the way down to Louisiana, and

0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:45.840
<v Speaker 2>off of Goldberger's advice, the Red Cross began adding brewers

0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:47.879
<v Speaker 2>yas to its food rations.

0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:51.040
<v Speaker 8>And that's why we have enriched foods. Now, that's what

0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:58.280
<v Speaker 8>it means. The advent of enriched foods was from Polagora.

0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:02.680
<v Speaker 2>This understanding of Pelagora progression complicates the narrative we're inclined

0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:04.920
<v Speaker 2>to jump to when it comes to the Old Asylum.

0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:07.720
<v Speaker 8>I know that a lot of the work that's been

0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:10.320
<v Speaker 8>done on asylums in the South in general assumes that

0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 8>patients came to the asylums and were not fed well

0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:16.439
<v Speaker 8>and got poleegra at the asylum and then ended up

0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:17.360
<v Speaker 8>dying at polegra.

0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:19.360
<v Speaker 3>I think the story is much.

0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Different, counterintuitively, in terms of preventative medicine AKAA diet, the

0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Old Asylum might have been one of the better places

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:29.439
<v Speaker 2>in the state.

0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:30.840
<v Speaker 6>Stay with me here.

0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:36.280
<v Speaker 2>The asylums thirteen hundred acres included a farm, and it

0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:39.600
<v Speaker 2>wasn't just any old thing. It was an award winner

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:42.960
<v Speaker 2>one that people came from all around just to see.

0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:47.360
<v Speaker 8>They raised cattle, They had an award winning hog operation,

0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:53.800
<v Speaker 8>award winning poultry operation. And my feeling is that patients

0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:57.120
<v Speaker 8>may have been better fed at the asylum than they

0:26:57.160 --> 0:26:59.120
<v Speaker 8>were at their homes.

0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:03.160
<v Speaker 2>You see the farm's bounty laid out and the superintendent's

0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:06.600
<v Speaker 2>by annual reports to the legislature, which, to be fair,

0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:09.280
<v Speaker 2>we're always trying to paint the asylum in the best

0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:13.359
<v Speaker 2>possible light. Still, between June of nineteen eleven and July

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:16.320
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen thirteen, which was just a couple of years

0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:20.320
<v Speaker 2>before doctor Goldberger was sent down to Mississippi, the vegetable

0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:25.040
<v Speaker 2>garden alone spanned about sixty acres. All of this maintained,

0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:31.040
<v Speaker 2>of course by the patients themselves, but many palagor patients

0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:33.680
<v Speaker 2>arrived too far gone for diet to do much.

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.280
<v Speaker 8>Good, and so the death rate for people with pelagora

0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:42.560
<v Speaker 8>was just incredible. I think it's a condemnation of sort

0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:46.359
<v Speaker 8>of the Mississippi society rather than the asylum itself.

0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 2>The death rate for pollagora won is incredible. I mean,

0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.879
<v Speaker 2>we've got it. It wiped out entire swaths of the South.

0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:07.920
<v Speaker 2>And we've also got a handle on the four d's,

0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:13.040
<v Speaker 2>the last two of which are dementia and death. Collagrapatients

0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:16.199
<v Speaker 2>who were sent to the asylum were already on death's

0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:18.200
<v Speaker 2>door when they arrived.

0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:20.440
<v Speaker 6>Now overlay this.

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Information with the asylum's high death rates with patients days

0:28:25.040 --> 0:28:28.760
<v Speaker 2>of just a few months before those patients passed. To

0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:31.920
<v Speaker 2>be clear, I'm not saying that the Old Asylum was

0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:35.640
<v Speaker 2>a rose tinged haven altruistic to its core.

0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:37.800
<v Speaker 6>Neither is Laida.

0:28:38.120 --> 0:28:40.840
<v Speaker 8>There were people who committed suicide, and there were people

0:28:40.880 --> 0:28:45.000
<v Speaker 8>who were victims of violent patient on patient violence. I

0:28:45.160 --> 0:28:48.280
<v Speaker 8>am absolutely positive there were patients who are victims of

0:28:49.200 --> 0:28:54.480
<v Speaker 8>sexual violence of by the caregivers. I'm not saying that

0:28:54.560 --> 0:28:57.840
<v Speaker 8>didn't happen. I'm saying if we only focus on that,

0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:00.920
<v Speaker 8>we miss a lot of the story.

0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:05.080
<v Speaker 2>This context really complicated my understanding of the Old Asylum

0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:09.280
<v Speaker 2>in a lot of ways, intentionally or not. The asylum

0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:11.920
<v Speaker 2>was more like a hospice for many of its patients.

0:29:12.280 --> 0:29:14.680
<v Speaker 2>You can't just draw a straight line from the high

0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:19.640
<v Speaker 2>death rates to mistreatment, poor medical care, poor treatment. Those

0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:24.360
<v Speaker 2>things happened, but there's zigzags along the way.

0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:27.920
<v Speaker 8>And I say thirty thousand patients approximately and about ten

0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:31.320
<v Speaker 8>thousand died based on the institutional records, and then twenty

0:29:31.320 --> 0:29:34.680
<v Speaker 8>five hundred patients were there when Whitfield opened, so that

0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:38.760
<v Speaker 8>means that seventeen thousand, five hundred patients approximately.

0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:41.880
<v Speaker 3>Were treated and released. We never hear those stories.

0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:46.040
<v Speaker 8>I mean, I've run across maybe a couple of stories

0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:50.120
<v Speaker 8>about oh yeah, my great uncle went there, was at

0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:52.000
<v Speaker 8>the Old Asylum for a little while, and then he

0:29:52.040 --> 0:29:53.120
<v Speaker 8>came home and he was fine.

0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:55.480
<v Speaker 3>You know. I mean, we just don't get those stories.

0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:00.760
<v Speaker 2>There's no way for us to know why those stories

0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:05.440
<v Speaker 2>didn't get passed down. Could be its shame, or could

0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:08.520
<v Speaker 2>be it's just too mundane to enter the family lore.

0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:11.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I can't imagine sitting my kids down to

0:30:11.720 --> 0:30:15.360
<v Speaker 2>tell them about their great uncle's time and physical therapy

0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 2>and maybe those success stories or what helped family members

0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:22.320
<v Speaker 2>at the time make peace with the choice to send

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:26.840
<v Speaker 2>their loved ones to the Old Asylum, because remember, patients

0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:30.720
<v Speaker 2>were rarely the ones admitting themselves. Somewhere along the line,

0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:33.920
<v Speaker 2>someone made the decision that they were better off in

0:30:33.960 --> 0:30:38.320
<v Speaker 2>the asylum. Maybe it was law enforcement, the judicial system,

0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:41.920
<v Speaker 2>or maybe it was family members grasping its straws.

0:30:44.640 --> 0:30:48.120
<v Speaker 8>I hear that a lot often people were admitted to

0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:51.200
<v Speaker 8>the asylum because they were a danger to themselves or others.

0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:56.280
<v Speaker 8>There's several stories about people setting fire to the house,

0:30:56.840 --> 0:30:58.400
<v Speaker 8>and you know, you think about it, people go, well,

0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:01.440
<v Speaker 8>why was fire such a big deal, like well, because

0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:04.160
<v Speaker 8>that was the way houses were heated, and that was.

0:31:04.160 --> 0:31:07.520
<v Speaker 3>The way, that was the way people cooked.

0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:12.800
<v Speaker 8>The danger of sort of being alone in a household

0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:18.920
<v Speaker 8>when there's something going on with your mind with a

0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:22.720
<v Speaker 8>lot worse than probably than it is now. I do

0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:26.080
<v Speaker 8>think it comes down to can I handle this, It's

0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:28.720
<v Speaker 8>this in the best interest of my loved one to

0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:32.200
<v Speaker 8>keep this person at home or in the community. Is

0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:35.360
<v Speaker 8>it simply a way to marginalize the people that we

0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 8>don't want to look at in our community. Possibly. I mean,

0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:43.600
<v Speaker 8>all of these things I think are at play. I

0:31:43.640 --> 0:31:49.520
<v Speaker 8>do hate the word marginalized though, and I'll tell you why. Yes,

0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:53.560
<v Speaker 8>people were sent to the asylum. We are looking at

0:31:53.560 --> 0:31:58.240
<v Speaker 8>that from our perspective. Though, again, they came to the asylum.

0:31:58.680 --> 0:32:02.680
<v Speaker 8>At least initially, it was a place where there were resources.

0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:07.240
<v Speaker 8>There was food, There was even entertainment. There were sidewalks

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 8>and landscaping and plants. The patients there, their lives didn't end,

0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:16.520
<v Speaker 8>you know, they simply entered into a new community.

0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Regardless of why patients ended up in the asylum, their

0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:24.680
<v Speaker 2>lives didn't end when they walked through those doors.

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:27.120
<v Speaker 6>They just changed.

0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:32.360
<v Speaker 2>To find those examples you just have to dig below

0:32:32.400 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 2>the surface that's coming up on under yazoo clay.

0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:54.280
<v Speaker 7>So this is the soil that is getting sucked.

0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:55.840
<v Speaker 3>In, Yes, the famous clay.

0:32:56.320 --> 0:32:59.120
<v Speaker 7>Oh yes, yes, it's terrible.

0:33:01.200 --> 0:33:02.960
<v Speaker 11>It's terrible, terrible dirt.

0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:05.520
<v Speaker 2>But we're in a building on the Medical Center's campus

0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:09.160
<v Speaker 2>that feels more like a warehouse. It's at least fifteen

0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:13.200
<v Speaker 2>degrees colder than Jackson's April weather outside, and there's burnt

0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:17.240
<v Speaker 2>orange yazoo clay all over the cement floor, burnt orange

0:33:17.280 --> 0:33:19.640
<v Speaker 2>yazoo clay all over everything.

0:33:20.600 --> 0:33:22.880
<v Speaker 6>Oh wow, Oh, this is not what I was expecting

0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:23.200
<v Speaker 6>at all.

0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:27.360
<v Speaker 11>No, because so for one thing, it's very dirty because

0:33:27.360 --> 0:33:30.959
<v Speaker 11>it's an active archaeological field lab. But it was originally

0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:34.480
<v Speaker 11>the laundry building for the hospital, and that's why all

0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:36.960
<v Speaker 11>the big pipes and the giant boilers in the corner.

0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:40.440
<v Speaker 2>We're here to meet doctor Jennifer Mack. You heard from

0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:44.080
<v Speaker 2>her briefly in the first episode. She's the lead bioarchaeologist

0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 2>of the Asylum Hill Project. Just in case you, like me,

0:33:47.960 --> 0:33:49.760
<v Speaker 2>are fuzzy on what that means.

0:33:50.320 --> 0:33:56.960
<v Speaker 11>Bioarchaeology is the study specifically of human remains from archaeological

0:33:57.000 --> 0:33:59.920
<v Speaker 11>contexts this is specifically the study of bear.

0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Essentially, doctor Mack is small and wiry. She has long,

0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:07.960
<v Speaker 2>dark hair, and, despite the gravity of her job, a

0:34:08.080 --> 0:34:11.839
<v Speaker 2>light goofy sense of humor. We spoke inside, but it's

0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:15.560
<v Speaker 2>easy to picture her out in the field. Since twenty seventeen,

0:34:15.800 --> 0:34:19.560
<v Speaker 2>she's been elbowed deep and yazoo clay, working to map

0:34:19.600 --> 0:34:22.960
<v Speaker 2>out the cemetery and piece together the story of the

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:24.360
<v Speaker 2>asylum it belonged to.

0:34:25.040 --> 0:34:28.120
<v Speaker 11>It's easier for people to identify when there are a

0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:30.960
<v Speaker 11>few artifacts, to tell a little bit about a person's

0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:33.920
<v Speaker 11>personality and really be like, oh yeah, I got totally.

0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:34.560
<v Speaker 3>I know that chick.

0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:37.920
<v Speaker 2>She walked us over to a series of folding tables

0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:40.640
<v Speaker 2>covered with brown paper. It looked like the setup for

0:34:40.680 --> 0:34:43.960
<v Speaker 2>a crawfish boil, but she'd use the paper to protect

0:34:44.040 --> 0:34:45.399
<v Speaker 2>artifacts she'd pulled for us.

0:34:46.680 --> 0:34:50.800
<v Speaker 11>I cover everything because the air conditioning a heat blows

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:55.040
<v Speaker 11>so hard and then blows dust over everything.

0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:58.840
<v Speaker 2>The covering was totally a practical choice on Doctor Max's part.

0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:01.919
<v Speaker 2>It's the only to keep that yazoo clay dust from

0:35:02.000 --> 0:35:06.120
<v Speaker 2>taking over again, but the effect paid for a delightful reveal.

0:35:06.239 --> 0:35:09.520
<v Speaker 2>With each new object we came to, she picked up.

0:35:09.440 --> 0:35:11.400
<v Speaker 6>A tiny bit of gold.

0:35:11.760 --> 0:35:13.880
<v Speaker 11>Oh look, there's a gold nugget. Why would there be

0:35:13.920 --> 0:35:17.040
<v Speaker 11>such a tiny gold with the filling survived without the

0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:17.879
<v Speaker 11>truth around it.

0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:21.000
<v Speaker 2>As they peel back each layer of clay, doctor Mack

0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:24.280
<v Speaker 2>and her team are exposing new insights into the people

0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:27.520
<v Speaker 2>that were laid to rest in these graves and the

0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:30.879
<v Speaker 2>people who entered them into life at the asylum.

0:35:31.440 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 11>I'd love to tell you about one particular pattern that

0:35:34.640 --> 0:35:39.960
<v Speaker 11>delights me, though it's not about the patients. Individuals were

0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:42.319
<v Speaker 11>wrapped in a winding sheet that was pinned, and so

0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:46.160
<v Speaker 11>we usually find two, three, four safety pins in a burial.

0:35:47.800 --> 0:35:52.719
<v Speaker 11>There's a set of graves with why in my head,

0:35:52.760 --> 0:35:57.960
<v Speaker 11>I call her like the compulsive nurse, someone who for

0:35:58.000 --> 0:36:01.560
<v Speaker 11>a short time was preparing bodies for burial, was very

0:36:01.600 --> 0:36:04.960
<v Speaker 11>finicky about the winding sheets. So instead of three or

0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:08.480
<v Speaker 11>four pins, there as many as eighteen safety pins, and

0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:12.600
<v Speaker 11>you could that is a personality. That's not a policy change, obviously,

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:13.400
<v Speaker 11>it's a personality.

0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:15.479
<v Speaker 3>There are five graves in a row that.

0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:18.479
<v Speaker 11>Have way too many pins, and then.

0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:19.520
<v Speaker 3>There are a few nearby.

0:36:19.640 --> 0:36:23.880
<v Speaker 11>There's a total of ten that I presume were prepared

0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:27.600
<v Speaker 11>by this same individual and then it stops, and we've

0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 11>gone pretty far out we have not found anymore.

0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:33.479
<v Speaker 3>So either that person was.

0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:38.799
<v Speaker 1>No longer asked to prepare bodies for burial, or someone said, hey,

0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:41.040
<v Speaker 1>quit wasting all the pins. You know, I'm not sure,

0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:45.200
<v Speaker 1>but we have this little glimpse of one personality of

0:36:45.280 --> 0:36:47.879
<v Speaker 1>a person who either worked at the asylum or could

0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:48.880
<v Speaker 1>have been a fellow patient.

0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:56.000
<v Speaker 2>The only part of the old asylum that's left on

0:36:56.120 --> 0:37:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Asylum Hill is the cemetery, and there's little to no documentation.

0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:04.600
<v Speaker 6>Of or about these burials.

0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:07.960
<v Speaker 2>So the story of the cemetery is being plucked from

0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:11.400
<v Speaker 2>the clay grave by grave and peace by piece.

0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:19.360
<v Speaker 11>As far as we know, we haven't had any sort

0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:23.560
<v Speaker 11>of documents, but of course it's early days in research.

0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:29.000
<v Speaker 11>We haven't had any oral histories about families being able

0:37:29.040 --> 0:37:32.920
<v Speaker 11>to attend the burial but not able to claim the body.

0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:39.640
<v Speaker 11>So my interpretation has been more that patients and staff

0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:42.680
<v Speaker 11>prepairing the bodies or doing the work of the actual

0:37:42.719 --> 0:37:46.640
<v Speaker 11>burial are the ones who had these expressions of affection.

0:37:46.680 --> 0:37:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Because we do have each item that doctor Mack reveals

0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:52.200
<v Speaker 2>beneath the butcher paper is something she and her team

0:37:52.320 --> 0:37:56.160
<v Speaker 2>have found while conducting the dig of the cemetery. That

0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:59.719
<v Speaker 2>means that each item was intentionally left with someone in

0:37:59.760 --> 0:38:01.160
<v Speaker 2>their final resting place.

0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:06.200
<v Speaker 11>See it's got the ribs on the back. And this

0:38:06.440 --> 0:38:10.759
<v Speaker 11>was found in Burial one fifty seven, right above where

0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:12.040
<v Speaker 11>the kaffer had had decayed.

0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:15.480
<v Speaker 2>She's showing us a piece of broken tile more than

0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:16.120
<v Speaker 2>a foot long.

0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:19.400
<v Speaker 11>We're pretty sure we know where the tile came from

0:38:20.080 --> 0:38:23.759
<v Speaker 11>in the nineteen twenty three superintendent's report that there's a

0:38:23.840 --> 0:38:27.440
<v Speaker 11>description of having remodeled all of the bathrooms in the

0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:32.600
<v Speaker 11>asylum and replaced all the tile. So what's it doing

0:38:32.800 --> 0:38:37.080
<v Speaker 11>in the burial well? I had a thought.

0:38:38.080 --> 0:38:41.040
<v Speaker 2>She brought that thought to the descendant, doctor Elizabeth West.

0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Doctor West also has an impressive CV. She's a member

0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:49.520
<v Speaker 2>of the Asylum Hill Research Consortium and also the director

0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:52.960
<v Speaker 2>of academics for Georgia State University's Center for Studies on

0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:54.600
<v Speaker 2>Africa and Its Diaspora.

0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:58.719
<v Speaker 11>And so I spoke with Elizabeth West, and it was

0:38:58.760 --> 0:39:01.960
<v Speaker 11>her opinion that she thought it could indeed be like

0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:06.319
<v Speaker 11>an adaptive expression of the African American mortuary tradition of

0:39:06.440 --> 0:39:11.200
<v Speaker 11>placing ceramic or glass domestic items in the coffin or

0:39:11.239 --> 0:39:15.640
<v Speaker 11>on top of the coffin at burial. And the reason

0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:18.440
<v Speaker 11>this is so interesting is that the nature of this

0:39:18.680 --> 0:39:21.680
<v Speaker 11>being a big piece of broken tile instead of like

0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:27.160
<v Speaker 11>a lovely cup and saucer sort of suggests that patients

0:39:27.200 --> 0:39:31.120
<v Speaker 11>were involved in the work of doing the grave digging

0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:33.640
<v Speaker 11>and burying the dead. Because if you're a patient and

0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:37.040
<v Speaker 11>an asylum, you can't go to the cafeteria and say, hey,

0:39:37.040 --> 0:39:39.400
<v Speaker 11>I'd like a cup and saucer to bury with my friend.

0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:43.080
<v Speaker 11>I don't think that would go over well. But you

0:39:43.160 --> 0:39:47.080
<v Speaker 11>can take what you can find, just like enslaved people

0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:50.520
<v Speaker 11>made use of what they could and use that to

0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:54.520
<v Speaker 11>express the same thing. So it's a maked solution. When

0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:59.400
<v Speaker 11>other materials aren't available and we've got this tile, we

0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:01.840
<v Speaker 11>have an another piece of tile that was found in

0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:06.440
<v Speaker 11>another grave. There was a broken crockery vessel in another grave,

0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:11.120
<v Speaker 11>and then a large rested can in another, so that

0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:15.000
<v Speaker 11>we found this pattern so far of objects that you

0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:18.759
<v Speaker 11>could have pulled off of a discard pile. Looked very

0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:21.759
<v Speaker 11>much like it had been placed there as it was

0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:24.719
<v Speaker 11>it was being pulled up by the back.

0:40:24.760 --> 0:40:26.440
<v Speaker 3>Ho h.

0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:27.000
<v Speaker 6>I love this.

0:40:28.000 --> 0:40:31.600
<v Speaker 2>It's what doctor Didlake has been talking about that Southern

0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:34.759
<v Speaker 2>ethos that reverence for the grave has been with the

0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:36.480
<v Speaker 2>cemetery from the beginning.

0:40:37.440 --> 0:40:40.360
<v Speaker 11>Sometimes it is just an empty medicine bodel and a spoon.

0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:43.879
<v Speaker 11>It doesn't have to be something elaborate. But I would

0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:45.680
<v Speaker 11>think that if it was family coming from outside, it

0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:50.200
<v Speaker 11>wouldn't be a broken piece of building material from the asylum.

0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Doctor mack leads us over to a pair of brown

0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:58.400
<v Speaker 2>shoes that look almost like they've been sculpted from dirt.

0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:02.279
<v Speaker 11>So these were ye, there were alongside the body, and

0:41:03.320 --> 0:41:07.279
<v Speaker 11>my interpretation is that it was an item that was

0:41:08.120 --> 0:41:14.600
<v Speaker 11>almost forgotten during the burial preparation. The body is already

0:41:15.880 --> 0:41:18.400
<v Speaker 11>pinned up in the winding sheet, placed in the coffin,

0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:21.799
<v Speaker 11>and oh wait, we forgot to put the boots on

0:41:21.840 --> 0:41:24.680
<v Speaker 11>the feet. Oh these were his favorite boots. Let's not

0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:27.239
<v Speaker 11>forget these. So they were placed in the coffin because

0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:30.200
<v Speaker 11>it was important to the people who were doing the

0:41:30.200 --> 0:41:33.280
<v Speaker 11>burial to do that proper thing. But then couldn't access

0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:36.319
<v Speaker 11>the feet anymore. At least that's my theory, because.

0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:39.239
<v Speaker 2>She said she's also found dentures tucked inside the same way.

0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:42.200
<v Speaker 11>You can't reopen grandma's mouth, but you can make sure

0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:47.719
<v Speaker 11>she doesn't go to heaven without her dentures.

0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.400
<v Speaker 2>But sometimes the value of the objects doesn't require so

0:41:53.520 --> 0:41:54.319
<v Speaker 2>much guesswork.

0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:58.960
<v Speaker 11>These rings are more like what we commonly find, and

0:41:59.000 --> 0:42:02.799
<v Speaker 11>we have found a lot of thought, but rings are

0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:05.520
<v Speaker 11>the most common personal artifact that we find.

0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:09.839
<v Speaker 2>She holds up a gold ring. I lean in and

0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:11.040
<v Speaker 2>notice there's an inscription.

0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:19.400
<v Speaker 11>This is one of my favorite artifacts. It appears to

0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:23.040
<v Speaker 11>be a solid gold wedding bands our eighteen carrot gold

0:42:23.080 --> 0:42:27.759
<v Speaker 11>wedding band, and inscribed inside it says ever true to

0:42:27.840 --> 0:42:34.400
<v Speaker 11>the which is very sweet. And even though it's a

0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:37.719
<v Speaker 11>small ring, based on the width of thinking that it

0:42:37.840 --> 0:42:40.759
<v Speaker 11>was on the hand of a male, but unfortunately the

0:42:40.800 --> 0:42:44.319
<v Speaker 11>skeletal remains were almost non existent in this grave. And

0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:47.279
<v Speaker 11>I really like this artifact, not just because to me,

0:42:47.600 --> 0:42:50.400
<v Speaker 11>I feel like it's a symbol of a truly loving marriage,

0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:52.560
<v Speaker 11>because if you're just having to marry somebody, you don't

0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:56.400
<v Speaker 11>get that engraved in a ring, right, or maybe you do,

0:42:56.719 --> 0:43:01.760
<v Speaker 11>but also because it combats the assumption that people make that, oh,

0:43:01.840 --> 0:43:03.719
<v Speaker 11>everyone who worked in the asylum was evil and they

0:43:03.719 --> 0:43:07.200
<v Speaker 11>would have stolen anything valuable that the patients had. Obviously

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:09.480
<v Speaker 11>that's not the case, because this is a very valuable

0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:11.600
<v Speaker 11>ring that got interred with this person.

0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:14.840
<v Speaker 2>It's one of those objects that doesn't just point to

0:43:14.880 --> 0:43:19.440
<v Speaker 2>the life that patients lived inside the asylum.

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:20.680
<v Speaker 6>But the life they had lived on the outside.

0:43:22.320 --> 0:43:24.200
<v Speaker 2>I could tell from the way doctor Mack looked at

0:43:24.200 --> 0:43:27.640
<v Speaker 2>this ring, the way she held it, that it was unique.

0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:32.560
<v Speaker 2>It seemed personal. And then I remembered something I'd noticed

0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:36.160
<v Speaker 2>when we walked in that day, a tattoo on doctor

0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Mack's foot. May I ask about your tattoo because it

0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:45.239
<v Speaker 2>says ever true it does it does, ever true to THEE,

0:43:45.320 --> 0:43:45.920
<v Speaker 2>just like that ring.

0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:50.239
<v Speaker 11>Yes, I'm going to try to tell the story. So

0:43:50.520 --> 0:43:53.799
<v Speaker 11>that ring was found by my hust Oh, I can't

0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:56.880
<v Speaker 11>do it. Hold on, sorry, Normally I'm not like this,

0:43:56.920 --> 0:44:04.760
<v Speaker 11>and I can tell everybody about my tattoo. So my husband,

0:44:04.800 --> 0:44:07.480
<v Speaker 11>Dustin Clark, was the crew chief of this project, and

0:44:07.520 --> 0:44:09.480
<v Speaker 11>he's the one that found the gold ring that said

0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:10.680
<v Speaker 11>ever true to THEE.

0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:11.760
<v Speaker 3>And he was very.

0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:13.759
<v Speaker 11>Proud of it, and he kept telling everyone that it

0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:16.440
<v Speaker 11>was the best artifact, and everyone who thought they found

0:44:16.520 --> 0:44:18.680
<v Speaker 11>something good, he said, no, no, it's not as good

0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:21.840
<v Speaker 11>as the ring that I found. So, unfortunately he passed

0:44:21.840 --> 0:44:24.600
<v Speaker 11>away in August. So I have a tattoo on my

0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:27.319
<v Speaker 11>foot with two coffins, one for him, one for me,

0:44:28.280 --> 0:44:32.160
<v Speaker 11>and a snake because he loved speakes, and a skull

0:44:32.200 --> 0:44:34.680
<v Speaker 11>because that's what I do for a living. And then

0:44:34.719 --> 0:44:36.719
<v Speaker 11>we've got the ring on there, and then it says

0:44:36.840 --> 0:44:39.280
<v Speaker 11>ever true to thee, just like the ring that he found.

0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:49.120
<v Speaker 2>And so doctor Matt continues working on the Asylum Hill site,

0:44:50.200 --> 0:44:53.600
<v Speaker 2>uncovering new artifacts and new stories of the last people

0:44:53.640 --> 0:44:57.880
<v Speaker 2>who touched them. There's a forward motion through the grief

0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:01.200
<v Speaker 2>that seemed to be through Loan for each of the

0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:04.840
<v Speaker 2>descendants we spoke with as well. Even if what you

0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:08.920
<v Speaker 2>learn isn't positive, there's Catharsis in discovery.

0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:11.680
<v Speaker 6>All this born out.

0:45:11.520 --> 0:45:16.279
<v Speaker 2>Of a place we associate with shadows, shame and secrecy,

0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:22.560
<v Speaker 2>and still this is a place that defies definition and

0:45:22.640 --> 0:45:23.120
<v Speaker 2>it should.

0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:32.359
<v Speaker 8>When I first started this project, and I think the

0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:35.640
<v Speaker 8>goals of the CONSORTI members, the scholars who are involved

0:45:35.640 --> 0:45:39.040
<v Speaker 8>from the beginning, certainly Doctor Didlake was to sort of

0:45:39.160 --> 0:45:44.239
<v Speaker 8>paint a portrait of what life was like at the Asylum,

0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:47.160
<v Speaker 8>and unfortunately, I think.

0:45:47.000 --> 0:45:49.200
<v Speaker 3>That's very, very difficult to do.

0:45:49.880 --> 0:45:54.960
<v Speaker 8>And when we try to sort of paint a portrait

0:45:55.000 --> 0:45:58.240
<v Speaker 8>of what life was like, or you create a picture

0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:01.319
<v Speaker 8>of what life was like at the Assida Number one.

0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:03.960
<v Speaker 8>It was different from one year to the next, one

0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:09.600
<v Speaker 8>decade to the next. It was different depending on your condition.

0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:14.120
<v Speaker 8>I'm not naive enough to think that the black patients

0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:17.200
<v Speaker 8>were treated as well as the white patients, But I

0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:22.160
<v Speaker 8>also think sort of dismissing the superintendents and the people

0:46:22.200 --> 0:46:29.080
<v Speaker 8>who work there because they were clearly entrenched in systemic racism. Basically,

0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:34.760
<v Speaker 8>I think we if we simply ignore the stories because

0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:37.359
<v Speaker 8>of that, we miss a lot of the story. So

0:46:37.440 --> 0:46:42.080
<v Speaker 8>I've tried to have an open mind about possibly, I mean,

0:46:42.280 --> 0:46:45.759
<v Speaker 8>were there was there anything positive about the fact that,

0:46:46.920 --> 0:46:50.520
<v Speaker 8>you know, black patients were admitted there and treated there.

0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:53.040
<v Speaker 8>And I think I think in some ways trying to

0:46:53.719 --> 0:46:58.680
<v Speaker 8>paint these really broad strokes is less respectful to the

0:46:58.760 --> 0:46:59.920
<v Speaker 8>patients than we should be.

0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and if there's one thing we know about Laida

0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:06.799
<v Speaker 2>and the rest of the Asylum Hill Project, they're going

0:47:06.840 --> 0:47:10.640
<v Speaker 2>to err on the side of respect for doctor West.

0:47:10.960 --> 0:47:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Going beyond those broad brushstrokes is key. Brushing the dirt

0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:18.600
<v Speaker 2>off her great uncle Hillman's story finally gave her insight

0:47:18.719 --> 0:47:19.880
<v Speaker 2>to her own grandfather.

0:47:21.000 --> 0:47:25.880
<v Speaker 12>I understand and appreciate myself and my family in ways

0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:31.040
<v Speaker 12>that I had not before the pain of finding an

0:47:31.080 --> 0:47:35.480
<v Speaker 12>ancestor not too far back in the path. This was

0:47:35.640 --> 0:47:39.960
<v Speaker 12>a person who my grandfather farmed with. This was a

0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:44.800
<v Speaker 12>person who helped shape my grandfather, who then shaped my mother,

0:47:45.640 --> 0:47:48.400
<v Speaker 12>who then shaped me. So it's not like, you know,

0:47:48.520 --> 0:47:52.960
<v Speaker 12>it's not like some obscure figure. The place itself, the

0:47:53.040 --> 0:47:58.439
<v Speaker 12>asylum itself, and the taboo of mental health how we

0:47:58.560 --> 0:48:01.319
<v Speaker 12>look at that in this country. All of that is

0:48:02.040 --> 0:48:06.719
<v Speaker 12>I'm sure like devastating to think about, But I'm not

0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:13.960
<v Speaker 12>overly disturbed by that, because you know, health issues are

0:48:14.000 --> 0:48:17.799
<v Speaker 12>health issues, whether they're mental or physical. And you know,

0:48:17.960 --> 0:48:22.160
<v Speaker 12>just because you know people suffer from mental health does

0:48:22.239 --> 0:48:28.200
<v Speaker 12>not mean their lives are not important and phenomenal. And

0:48:28.239 --> 0:48:34.000
<v Speaker 12>when I think about encountering this person through the asylum

0:48:34.320 --> 0:48:38.080
<v Speaker 12>and then understanding there that there are thousands of more

0:48:38.239 --> 0:48:43.160
<v Speaker 12>stories like that here, it's just, you know, it's mind.

0:48:42.920 --> 0:48:50.799
<v Speaker 2>Boggling, thousands more stories all waiting to be uncovered and

0:48:50.840 --> 0:48:56.080
<v Speaker 2>waiting to be found. What does it mean to find someone?

0:48:56.840 --> 0:49:01.879
<v Speaker 2>Once they've been found, what done? Will they fade back

0:49:01.920 --> 0:49:06.280
<v Speaker 2>into the rusted orange of the Yazoo Clay Well, Jackson

0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:09.080
<v Speaker 2>makes space for them.

0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:13.279
<v Speaker 6>That's next on Under Yazoo Clay Well.

0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:16.560
<v Speaker 7>As soon as Jessica and I walked down the hallway

0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:20.680
<v Speaker 7>and saw the sign, I just burst into tears. I

0:49:20.719 --> 0:49:22.520
<v Speaker 7>really didn't expect to do that. I mean, it was

0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:25.520
<v Speaker 7>just a side. So her brother said, when are you

0:49:25.520 --> 0:49:26.640
<v Speaker 7>even bringing that out?

0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:29.560
<v Speaker 3>And he said, I don't know.

0:49:29.840 --> 0:49:33.000
<v Speaker 12>Every time I go, she gets further and further away

0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:33.440
<v Speaker 12>from me.

0:49:34.960 --> 0:49:38.200
<v Speaker 8>And then yeah, and then like I was saying, you

0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:41.680
<v Speaker 8>can make the end sort of come to about this point.

0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:45.680
<v Speaker 3>Perfect that it'll be fine.

0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Under Yazoo Clay is executive produced by the Mississippi Museum

0:49:50.760 --> 0:49:53.719
<v Speaker 2>of Art in partnership with pod People. It's hosted by

0:49:53.760 --> 0:49:56.640
<v Speaker 2>me Laris and Campbell and written and produced by Rebecca

0:49:56.719 --> 0:50:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Shassan and myself with help from Angela Yee and Amy Mash,

0:50:00.640 --> 0:50:03.560
<v Speaker 2>with editing and sound design by Morgan Fuse and Erica

0:50:03.600 --> 0:50:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Wong and thanks to Blue Dot Sessions for music. Special

0:50:07.200 --> 0:50:09.960
<v Speaker 2>thanks to Betsy Bradley at the Mississippi Museum of Art,

0:50:10.280 --> 0:50:12.799
<v Speaker 2>as well as Leida Gibson at the Center for Bioethics

0:50:12.840 --> 0:50:15.960
<v Speaker 2>and Medical Humanities at the University of Mississippi. Medical Center,

0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:18.680
<v Speaker 2>visit Jackson and Jay and Deny Stein